a fresh new web framework is out
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Fresh is a fullstack web framework for Deno that allows developers to build fast server-rendered webapps. It uses the "Islands Architecture" to limit JavaScript to specific components and can be deployed to the edge.
#webdevelopment #javascript #TheCodeReport
🔗 Resources
Fresh Announcement deno.com/blog/...
Fresh on Github github.com/den...
Deno in 100 Seconds • Deno in 100 Seconds
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🔖 Topics Covered
- Fresh web framework tutorial
- Web frameworks for demo
- What is islands architecture?
- What is partial hydration?
- Fresh vs Next.js
- Fresh vs Remix
10 years of experience in Fresh REQUIRED, NO EXCEPTIONS!
"You're welcome to apply to our junior positions" lmao
btw you actually have 10 years of experience in The Exact Same Joke
Haha 😂 exactly. Just like react is 9 years old and companies are looking for react developers with 10 years of experience.
😂😂
That's the reality of HR department.
Frontend dev is like an artist going to the store every day and buying a new paintbrush to use and confused as to why they haven’t made the Monolisa when all they’ve done is retrace their stick figure with a new paint brush everyday.
Sale 20% OFF new brush tutorial (Beginners Lv)
in fact if there is a new javascript framework everyday that means there are new monalisas being made every day. Because those javascript frameworks are built with Javascript by frontend devs.
If you're switching the entire architecture before evening shipping your product, it's your problem, other devs are shipping their products, each one of those frameworks is a product on their own.
🤫
Brilliant.
just because someone makes a new framework every day doesn't mean you need to use them. Just stick with one and make some cool shit
The tech industry is the only industry where instead of actually fixing the underlying problems we build technology upon technology ontop of other technologies to try and abstract away from the fundamental issues caused by the underlaying layer.
All in the name of backwards compatibility.
Webassembly is a good step
@@sycration WEBSSEMBLY IS THE FUTURE. MAKE IT HAPPEN RIGHT NOW. FUCK THIS HTML CSS JS buLLSHIT I WANNA CODE IN C++
@Civic you seem irate. I think you need a new JS framework
@@zekicaneksi you are absolutely correct, this shit daunts me that is I left js for now
I'd love to see a video comparing deno to node nowadays with the pros and cons of using either in your tech stack
Yes please
Please Fireship 🙏
@@WhyDoesYTUseHandlesNow There's a couple of CDNs like skypack that will serve the contents of npm packages with transformations applied to run on deno; it works well for most simple packages, but ultimately you will still run into interop issues with some packages that do funky things with CJS exports.
Deno doesn't even type-check. What's the point of using TypeScript without type-checking?
@@uziboozy4540 for real???
It's good to see more frameworks use Deno out of the box instead of Node.
Fuck Node.
it was built by a deno core contributor, luca casonato
It won't happen probably. Node has already taken his piece of cake and replacing ruby, php at the moment. There is no need in deno at all. It's the same as with this new framework. Angular and React won't give front end to something like this for sure.
@@likle7163 this is a poor comment. ryan is trying to fix the mistakes he made in node with deno. as a developer who's seen many different types of "web" tech stroll on through, deno has been the most successful and promising project since react. also this framework, as mentioned in the video, is based off of preact... so, it's not really trying to replace it, it's just taking a bunch of good things (react and deno, specifically deno deploy) and putting them together. deno is a great project and should be seen as such.
Yeah, using node as a server is just terrible
My brain is officially out of space. I can feel my core memories getting overwritten by web frameworks 😖
That last part totally got me lmao,
There may be some projects that haven’t achieved 90% yet but a Fresh start doesnt sound bad
It's great to see Deno getting more attention! Deno's Web API compatibility is definitely a boon for frameworks that use SSR.
My favourite part about Deno is the almost instant typescript compilation.... wow.
Php does the same things since 1995
@@snowflaxxx yes, but I wouldn't choose php over a js framework. the pros of php can very easy turn into its cons
Interesting how the web started out entirely SSR, then client-side SPAs were all the rage, and now we’ve come full circle back to SSR but with extra steps
Nonsense. This concept of serving JS only when you need it is TOTALLY BRAND NEW. Didn't you watch the video? ISLANDS!!
@@hadesflames Also, HTML + back end code in one file? So new man, it's not like I did the same thing in ASP in 2003.
PHP
Im learning to master laravel and this concept is oddly similar to Laravel Inertia...
By next week we will be having job listings asking for 3 years of experience on Fresh 😂
this joke is overused really, real company who will pay you accordingly won't do this kind of stupid mistake
not untrue
nah, probably 5yr
@@busetgadapet exactly, 10 years min
@@busetgadapet
employers: are you sure about that.
These front-end JS frameworks make me SO thankful I'm not a front-end developer. I can't imagine having to deal with a new JS framework coming out like every year.
It's not that hard to keep up with and try one of them when you do a quick side project. Most are fundamentally the same: split up your app into reusable components instead of manipulating the DOM directly like a caveman. The specific ways in which these components are written may differ (JSX for (p)react/solid/vue, templating for svelte/vue) and these "languages" have a lot of specific quirks, but the larger features of the frameworks you use to create the app (Next, Nuxt, Sveltekit, Fresh) have a lot more similarities in the way things are structured and what they're capable of. There's only so many ways to do routing, server/static/client rendering, where to serve it etc that once you're familiar with the possibilities of one it's pretty easy to look at a new framework and just look at how it does things differently. Of course there's a ton of tiny little differences in how you can do things between everything, but broad strokes everything's pretty similar.
Angular is probably the most different from all the others, and "plain JS"/your own shitty framework will probably be wayyy different (worse) from everything else.
Lol these new stacks will die just like all the others that came out last year and the year before it
Year? I think you meant week 🙂
u mean every week? 🙂
but you dont
I love your videos. Your sense of humor and style represent programmers well! Polished, funny, not just some rant, and avoiding all of stereotypes. Thanks, keep em coming.
I miss the days of PHP vs ASP vs JSP with vanilla CSS/JS/HTML when web developers actually understood the underlying technologies.
There have always been layers of abstraction with web development. If you understand JavaScript do you understand the underlying technologies? Not at all.
And ALL experienced web devs today understand JS/CSS/HTML, so is it any different?
@@skylarkesselring6075 agreed
Hmm, that sounds kinda familiar. Server-side rendering and HTML + backend code in one file.... have we just successfully completed the circle back to PHP/JSP/etc?
Now, time to run even more laps around the circle.
My thoughts exactly. I'm sure this will be less clumsy than php and easier to use than JSP but I truly thought we were over that hill already.
As a PHP developer for the last decade it’s been pretty fun watching the JavaScript community go full circle from huge monolithic SPAs back to server-side rendering. Meanwhile we’ve been building high performance server-side apps that just deliver static HTML and minimal JavaScript this entire time 😆
@@christopherwhite6173 you can't compare template engines to SSR SPA apps 🤣
@@christopherwhite6173 yeah but you had to do it in PHP, so we still win.
Rendering HTML on the server, like how the web was originally intended to be used? It’s funny how concepts from 20 years ago are now being seen as new and fresh.
It's amazing how blazingly fast are you able to upload this videos!
I love it
@@mattmurphy7030 🤣
you do not use this word. blazingly fast. that word only reserve for theprimeagen
Wow good timing on this video, I literally heard about fresh last night and spent all night rebuilding one of my nextjs sites in it
@@hwfq34fajw9foiffawdiufhuaiwfhw and 99% of that time was trying to get `twind` intellisense to work in vscode
was something wrong with nextjs or were you just bored
@@joepetrillo6185 curiosity. I always try something new. My news aggregator told me about a new calendar app developed by the deno team (I thought it was odd they would make an app like this). Then I saw the most recently updated repo was a web framework and it was all over
@@brennenherbruck8740 i like to think it as it's like playing a new character (s) in a MOBA game, trying to see how good thay are lol
Ah yes. I was just thinking the other day how we definetly need a new one. I thought there was something missing in our lives. At first I thought it was the food or maybe not good enough drugs, but now I realized only a new Web Framework can fill the eternal void of nothingness the Universe shouts at us day after day. They are all precious and unique. A true testament to humankinds intelligence and priritization skills. One can only hope that once webassembly matures every piece of code in the infosphere will be regarded as a web framework. Most people hate them but trust me after 10 000 years of webdevelopment experience they'll grow on you.
what if this kept getting more and more insane to the point where you actually had to create your own framework to stay sane as a dev and remain undistracted and productive, like no joke the only escape option
now introducing "stable" only gets updated every other year!
wait I know this.. that's what we're doing at work.
I think that's what they actually do.
Angular.
i mean, that's exactly how new frameworks appear in the first place
"this is too much for me, I'm gonna make my own framework instead"
As a developer I should revel in how exciting and dynamic my industry is, but at the release of every new frontend framework I groan. I should be professional and enjoy continuous learning and stay competitive but now I'm truly bored of new frameworks. I really love the art of programming, writing well tested, clean, modular and reusable code and solving real world problems but I secretly feel a little insecure as I get older in my career dozens of new frameworks I feel I can't keep up with the pace and feel like I'm getting left behind. Maybe a little rant.
There Is no need to learn everything new. If your company doesn’t use It and you are not planning to make a project with It, then there Is no need to learn a new technology. There Is nothing new In the tech world really, just a constant reinvention of the wheel. For frontend I use react at work with nextjs but also learned svelte because I love how simple It Is and use It on my side projects and don’t really see the need of learning anything else because there Is nothing I can’t do with react or nothing I can’t do a lot easier than with svelte. Some people say things like “You gotta learn everything to stay afloat” which Is In my experience Is complete BS. It’s like chopping a tree but you still didn’t chop the tree because instead of chopping and improving your technique, you were stuck around constantly changing axes and getting used to them.
Try Elm.
This is not just a new framework, it is on a newish runtime (Deno). Deno (now with Fresh) lets you focus on the art of programming, minimising the pain of Javascript programming/web development/web configuration. So I would recommend you give this a look (You'll likely still hit problems along the way, but hopefully less of them).
Im starting in this industry right now and honestly, the fact that there is literally thousand of frameworks, tools, etc...its shocking af mostly cuz i dont understand most of the things right now xd
@@wiredelectrosphere
"There Is nothing new In the tech world really, just a constant reinvention of the wheel."
I wouldn't say tech world, this is mostly an issue within webdev which is small part of the tech world.
But just considering webdev i fully agree with that statement.
Gosh, it'S so nice that there is finally some love for deno. I love deno, my only issue till now is that most of my packages I rely on so badly are not accessible on deno, but every time I create a deno project, it feels so good to have top level awaits, ts without 2 horus of config beforehand, easy to create rust modules, and the I really like the "for(let var of await promise)" sanytax that is quite standard on deno
Deno for the win!
You can do top level await in node...
Web devs: "Let's build a website that reaches the sky." God: "Let there be many incompatible web frameworks." The web devs then scattered about the internet unable to build any websites.
Hahahaha, loved it.
Great comment
+1 xDD
Lol, atheists won't get this
2:49
I really like the simplicity!
* starts diving into deeply nested folders *
2 folders deep is considered deeply nested?
Since it just mimics REST, I don't see how it would become so nested.
@@mattmurphy7030 we have to go leaner. if you have 2 nested folders, why aren't you breaking it up into 2 projects already? SMH.
OH MY GOD IT'S SO BRILLIANT! I LOVE HOW THIS NEW FEATURE IS SO MUCH EASIER
Deno in fact does have a build step, it's just hidden from you. It automatically builds when you run your code, but caches the build, so subsequent runs are faster.
I'm not sure who else feels like this, but as a fullstack dev, I can only dedicate a part of my time to frontend. I have to admit that I just don't feel like catching up with the latest trend anymore. NextJS and React client side work for me, and unless there's a big breakthrough, I think I'll just stop chasing the next best thing in frontend. I love learning about new stuff, but there's a point in time at which you just have to settle down with something and just be fine with it. My stack works great for years. I'll still keep up to date with what's the hot stuff, but I won't jump on implementing it anymore.
Stick to your usual guns, re-evaluate your stack every few years but stay in touch with new developments. You really don't need to jump on the newest thing when it launches. Take a seat in the back and watch how it plays out first. Even if a new framework emerges and becomes more popular than React or Vue, you have plenty of time to learn it because React and Vue jobs aren't going to disappear just like that.
@@V3LOXy Exactly what I will settle with now, indeed!
@water no pun intended but do you think its worth it studying PHP because in my location PHP is still prominent
@@ikkenzo3948 Yes, PHP is definitely worth studying. Never listen to a frontend user, they don't know what reliability means. PHP is a reliable language with ugly syntax, but _it works amazing_. PHP is prominent everywhere and it's not going to stop, it's not like JavaScript is a "better language", it's completely fragmented and disorganized, which is the complete opposite of what's needed to make something that actually works.
@@NoorquackerInd if your Javascript disorganized, it doesn't mean that Javascript in general disorganized.
Ha ha, Fresh feels like a throwback to the past!
- No JS by default: like how all web frameworks used to be! (Django, phpc etc)
- Islands: That's what we used to do 10yrs ago by initialising html with a jQuery plugin.
This seems like an old-school web framework build using modern "fresh" tooling which hasn't got the we ecosystem old tooling
Right "Islands" just shows a problem in soft dev of giving things new labels that aren't even that good at describing the issue without a visual aid or several paragraphs for the uninitiated.
Islands == sections == divs == modular == components == separation of concerns, etc etc matron fowler probably has a ton more listed.
And it's just a plain bad physical metaphor used with digital FED.
@@TheNewton I don't think Fresh aligns much with Martin Fowler's way of doing things. Fowler is heavily focused in enterprise apps and OOP.
A lot has to do with the fact that the browser wars caused a lot of fragmentation and frameworks and polyfills helped paper over that hellscape. Now that browsers mostly cooperate on standards, javascript modernized over the last decade (and chromium is swallowing up everything for better or worse) frameworks and build steps are becoming less useful and the original way of web dev is beginning to return because that's all that's needed. That's my thinking anyway.
I'm always amazed how code is going back to the roots. First we wanted to decouple APIs and frontend. Now frontends have gone so far (also in difficulty), that some new frameworks are implementing the backend call in the same file as the frontend code 🤦
I've been in this game for 25 years.
Everything old is new again.
Boomers were smarter than us after all.
Also, remember when all new languages wanted to get away from OOP. Now those languages are trying hard to go back to it.
This seems super cool! Deno and TypeScript are a great benefit with it too.
I really want to see a video on how much these new frameworks actually change the user experience, performance and load times in an actual website.
Server-side rendering can speed up page load times, which not only improves the performance but also the user experience.
@@Lucas-hh4oh my question was concerning, by how much does it improve the performance. Like JSP was also server side rendering right?
99.99% of users don't give a rat's ass about it. we only pick and chose to show off to other devs (or piss them off, depending on who you are talking about)
@@Felipera_ exactly as a user i don't care if my website takes 1 second longer to load or if there is no reloading when clicking some links (routing)
As long as it dosent look like a scam website and serves it's purpose i am happy
But tech companies these days want to implement simplest of websites in angular, react and what not
@@Felipera_don’t be stupid if you have a shopping app and you didn’t cache your images in a server your first load time would be 5 seconds with ssr it can be instant
Its bold of you to assume my side project is 90% done. :)
The problem with Javascript frameworks, is that every time a new one comes out and becomes popular, the whole ecosystem becomes less valuable. What used to bring developers together in a single, structured ways of doing web apps into a framework most people loved, is now split in 48 differents forks of the same idea. Now no one works the same way and onboarding is bad again. So the next solution is just to come back to good' ol' JS on the webpage to get shit done, because now it's the simpler option.
Also the fact that SSR is something that seems to be new (and a breakthrough in web development) makes me giggle.
Off I go.
@drag (Avdan OS Developer) Or, or.... hear me out. We program in vanilla JS and just teach developers how to build PubSubs.
@@Justin73791 You sir are a sensible man
@drag (Avdan OS Developer) It's great until you need a team of professionals to work together and write consistent readable code
I disagree. Translating from one to another isn't very difficult at all.
@@Justin73791 Yeah, and eventually every developer will develop his own little crappy framework and we end up worse than we started.
Wow, this is exciting!
No it isn't
At this point I wonder, will any of these frameworks be used in actual production enterprise servers? I feel the market will stick mostly to the old ones (React, Angular and maybe Vue) to avoid the cost of migrating every time a new one appears.
e.g. I see SolidJs as a very bold contender for frontend web dev but I don't think it will compete anytime soon for real market share with React, etc.
No, they all die after 6 months anyways
Nope; they're not really supposed to, either, in my eyes (depending on the specifics). The teams making these frameworks are trying to introduce new paradigms and gauge their viability to see if they would be beneficial to the larger ecosystem. Then the hope is that either a) the big frameworks will adopt those features or b) the features will be so good that a new framework will become big
@@gusslx SolidJS is super solid and its not gonna die anytime soon. One time rendering is super OP, and REACT is missing that feature from the structure. Hope REACT will implement the same logic in the future ...
The one constant thing that's been confirmed by every new framework coming out is that JSX is here to stay.
Which is sad..
Finally a fresh framework.. What took js devs so long
The only interesting "new" thing in webdev would be a single language alternative to html/css/js
Flutter says hello
@@tiagosantos680 but flutter is slow on the web
@@creativeminds5222 also sucks at accessiblity
That doesn't actually sound like a very good idea; layout and styling each deserve their own DSL.
Rust stands head and shoulders above anything else.
After 25 years working with web development and tons of projects later, i found out that PHP+JS works better everytime, even after using fancy frameworks, the results would still be better using PHP+JS ( not jquery, pure JS ). It's organized, and i always get 100 points of performance on google lighthouse and gtmetrix, even on websites with milions of DB records. I will definitely stop looking at the new stuf and stick to the basic, which works 100% of the times, specially when you need to hire people often, these frameworks ruins the workflow and delays projects.
It's "fresh" until it becomes bloated with features from previous frameworks after a year and people move on to another framework.
What if it doesn’t?
( not that that is probable )
@@mattmurphy7030 don't spit completely unrelated phrases when you find yourself unable to add anything to a discussion, - or, in other words, go touch some grass, u jrkey
"I love X, I just wish it had feature Y from frameworkd Z" and it's all downhill from there.
I feel like we are always either on "it's too barebones for a real project" vs "it's too bloated" and striking a balance is actually impossible.
Unpopular opinion here :-
I think the js community constant birth of frameworks is a good thing, it's this rapid iterations that bring about optimal innovations pushing the community way past it's previous limits. Granted the framework fatigue is very real, but I like to think of it as growing pains for the community.
Yeah there are a number of solid mature frameworks out these days for important work and a bunch of new experimental ones that might become tomorrow's, just commit to something and don't chase trends
I completely agree with you. Also what often happens is that existing frameworks borrow the ideas from a newer one.
I hate this industry
@@AndyPotts0 😕
There are no inovations tho. Just reheated old ideas.
Just what I needed, another Javascript framework in my life!
Not sure why this stupid attitude has become so popular over the past couple of years.
Nobody is forcing you to use any of the newer frameworks. In production React is the unofficial standard, so it's not like the landscape has become crazy with new frameworks or anything.
All it really does it is highlight how thriving the Javascript eco system is, such that extremely well written frameworks just keep cropping up.
All of the newer frameworks that gain attention also influence some of the decisions the bigger, more widely used frameworks make - which makes all of our lives better.
You really aren't cool for just repeating that shit without a second thought.
lol if you don't want another javascript framework just don't code.
@@kb_dev man layed out a whole paragraph 💀 does this look like microsoft word?
@@MrDgf97 what?
@@MrDgf97 lmao
Note that with Fresh you can specify whether some JS should be shipped to the client. So technically it is hybrid and not SSR only.
38:01 "... doesn't really matter, all that matters is how they interact and the larger system that they are able to build... " I've loved this talk and especially that conclusion, helps me understand one of the fundamental programming philosophies.
I don't use JS at work, and I like it because of it. Whenever I use it, I use basic JS, with no frameworks or anything - HTML, CSS and JS. I make easy and quick what I need and it works. Usually I've seen many projects, developed with frameworked JS, and it took a lot of time to develop, got bugs all over the place, and it is heavy and slow in the browser. That is a torture. Let's hope this one is better.
the idea of "framework" is only helpful if you're developing for a large enterprise with like 100,000 users. vanila JS works like a charm for 90% of businesses.
The story will come full circle and after 10 years we'll all gonna use PHP again.
My favorite part of using a LAMP stack is not having to learn a new framework every month.
My favourite part of using a LAMP stack: It enlightens your experience (HA, am so funny)
Amen to that, it works and its fast. Sluggish js frameworks to hell.
Yeah but then you miss out on the experience of never being at good at any tech stack because all your time is wasted on learning the latest (often poorly-thought out) fad. All kidding aside, I'm happy in the DevOps space, where I also don't need to learn a framework every month. Linux and Jenkins aren't going anywhere
And then having to use 30 lines of code which I can do in 5 lines. Yeah, LAMP is so "cool" 🤣
@@manmanmanichfindekeinennam7613 what, you have frameworks for PHP/python/perl too
I don't usually like videos, but when I do, it's a fireship video
and all for the sake of moving the div, and creating the forms))
Need more frameworks
Another framework, I'll learn and completed abandon in 6 months. Great.
Deno needs to get more popular I am going to try fresh today because it sounds like a big step forward
That last bit about the side project... Stop mocking me, man! 😭😭
It's interesting how this seems to be a turning point in time of utter frustration over new frameworks. Expected the apocalypse much earlier :)
we need a tutorial about how to create a new framework , there is not enough
I believe programmers keep inventing new frameworks just to have an excuse to refactor their side-projects... am I getting this right?
I replayed like 10,000 times the part at the end "Now you can take your side project...throw it in the garbage and give it a fresh start".
I got inspired to create my own framework to inspire millions to create their own!
If deno somehow removes unnecesary JS from the pages, i think desserves an applause, because anything that reduces Javascript does a good to the world.
When I got my computer science degree years ago, we were always told anything that can be rendered in the browser should be rendered in the browser. Of course, bandwidth was at a premium at that time. It's just interesting to see how things have changed though I still personally code using the front side rendering concept and only perform crud operations on the back end.
Anyone else actually like that the FE ecosystem is so lively? It's exciting seeing a cool new framework and playing around with it, maybe even integrating it into your regular tech stack or having a new/better tool for a different type of application you'll make down the line. If you don't wanna keep up with the latest trends... then don't. Majority of the new tech that comes out actually doesn't even enable new possibilities, and chances are that your current stack can already do everything (and probably more). Notwithstanding that even if said new tech is really good, it won't be production-ready and widely adopted for at least a few years.
Nice that this was a slightly longer vid instead of a 100 seconds vid
Ohh the end was sooo good 😂😂😂😅
Caramba!
Você por aqui? kkkk
Since React I'm losing my desire to keep going with FE.
It's nice to see that JS with the abstraction provided open possibilities for new paradigms in the environment but I'm just tired of people keeping reinventing the wheel because they do not like the other people's wheel.
I'm currently sitting at Vue and for me is flexible and opinionated enough to solve my issues. I still use stores and for me makes a lot of sense the way it solves complex states on the FE.
You always going to have pros and cons with any approach and at this point, most FE frameworks are just trying to satisfy the owner's vision on how FE should be coded.
Would be great for the JS community to have a big ass talk about some definitions of standards, which I think would be impossible to reach a consensus on nevertheless.
In the short past, the only thing I can see is buzzwords and no real breakthroughs.
Things are improving so fast an becoming convenient.
NICE ANOTHER FRAMEWORK. THATS JUST WHAT I NEEDED!!!
Frameworks nowadays are like a different sort of ice cream.
A ton to choose from, with fancy new ones being added.
But ultimately people love the good old classics
It seems like in future a new framework will come up to build your own framework..I think we will going to see a new job position in software industry...that is a FRAMEWORK DEVELOPER 🤗
honestly I can see this happening, even if you were half joking. it might be the only way to cope with this madness is to create your own
then there will be the issue of working in teams because we all have our own unique framework. but that's not problem, we will just over-engineer a new solution, cross framework compatibility stack merge
@@bribes_for_nounsabsolutely, you said right about the over-engineer part.
In short JavaScript gonna stay even after the world ends..
When I saw that fresh added more than 700 stars today on best of js, I knew that fireship must have made a new video.
The way Fresh allows you to handle form requests on the same file than the form itself reminds me of a project I saw a few months ago, Nullstack. Not sure if it's still around, but I loved the idea.
Hey Jeff could you please do a video on the Nim programming language?
It seems neat but I don't understand how it cannot have a build system if they're depending on esbuild to bundle their code? Or am I missing something?
deno runs ts code
@@trickeddev ya but the build step runs implicitly anyway right?
you could check out this ruclips.net/video/pBcFJmQ6UVM/видео.html video where Ryan Dahl explains about Fresh and Deno. I didnt understand it fully but it has to do something with Deno using JIT instead of Ahead Of Time compilation
The Rick & Morty clip is perfect cause I can't take it any more. I just can't.
Ayyy I just ran this sample project locally the other night to check out Fresh AND Deno
Finally a new Framework 😂 Have they reached 10? Incredible, how much stuff ... The problem is that it looks ... Great, with Typescript, Deno and SSR, that is, all new things and geared towards the future of programming. I think we'll hear about it, we'll see. Thanks Jeff
10 what? There's like a 100 frameworks.
@@johnnyapplesmith More like 1000
And yet everybody ends up using React, Angular or Vue or their SSR counterparts
Nextjs for me, thanks, hehe.
At this point a new framework is like a new altcoin, everyone says it's going to be great, ends up in oblivion
Let's go Morty, in and out, 20 minutes adventure.
We all should create our own framework , doesn't it's good or bad. When we will die, it will bark for us.
I'm sold this will be the 4th rewrite!! If only I could finish something...
Gotta love this circles. First rendering gets pushed to clientside to get the load from the centralized server to the client. Then oh look all of a sudden lets not burden the client with rendering but put that to the server. In my opinion people don't know what they want anymore and do things just because they need to jusfity the next great thing. Rendering on the server can have some benefits but you are just creating a chokepoint under heavy load. Use the client, they are more then capable of simple rendering these days.
Also what is with the islands? No javascript is just unrealistic and isolating it to modules is just complicating it for sake of complicating. Either you deploy javascript or you don't. And lets be honest unless you have some edge cases you will deploy it. In the end the product matter all this buzzword are just that and nothing more. Great developers will deploy great products with or without all the flashy new toys.
justify*
angry man screams at cloud
But I need new frameworks to justify why my old frontend sucks to my stakeholders man
It's not at all complicating things for the sake of complicating, less JS = faster app as you can cache all the generated stuff and deploy it closer to the user through a cdn. Granted, people seem to be trying to also move the rendering to the edge, but that's still pretty new.
Similarly the move to server mostly happened because these better ways of creating web apps (react etc) now have frameworks which make doing so easier, making the separation between backend and frontend much smaller, meaning you don't have to fuck around in php anymore. The other main reasons are that it has also become clear that search engines just aren't as good at indexing client rendered pages as they said they are, so having all the pages fully rendered already really helps with SEO.
I know it seems like "going back", but it's more "we had a better way making apps but but it was only client side but now we can easily do this server side + Google is a liar"
@@tefkah These are all fair points and I do agree with them. My main point for the cynical post was that in my long development career I have seen a lot of going around in circles and mostly not for the best. While web is always evolving and many good improvements came out, not everything is justified. But again you have some very good points there.
I've always hated frameworks. I've been told time and time again "they're to make your life easier" but no they don't. They take all the things you understand and turn it on its head and every single time you learn a new framework you're back to square one. Then some joker decides to pollute the industry with their bright idea, the industry adopts it and all the other shit you've learnt ends up being more and more useless. Vanilla is #1 in my book.
This needs more likes.
Web frameworks are useful to know, but they won't help you become a good programmer on their own. In fact, they often can get in the way of you learning the more fundamental - and _portable_ - concepts that you can apply not only to other frameworks but to others areas of the programming landscape in it's entirety.
@@artychartybyjackmerlinbruc7134 I agree that they're useful to know for sure.
I recently met someone who was doing a university course on web development and the instructors got novice developers to make a website in Vue. None of them knew the fundamentals or anything about JS and Vue is their starting point. I offered to help her (I don't really know Vue that well but I know my JS) I got her a good pass but 90% of her class failed and she would've failed too had I not helped her. While these frameworks and libraries are really cool - you're right - they absolutely do get in the way of learning the fundamentals. You've gotta know how the base language works before using a heavily abstracted version of it.
So true
I wanna see framework lovers when github shutdown
Legend says a new framework gets released every time you hold your breath
Can't wait to be done with my current multi year project and start experimenting with new frameworks.
Now if some genuinely ingenious genius can tell me when Fresh would work better and when - Quik, and why, I'd give him/her a laurel.
Ah yes, a new day a new js framework
Jokes aside, this one looks very interesting I might give it a try
Why? So you waste your time doing something in a technology most likely will never go mainstream?
@@Titere05 "why would you waste your energy and time to make those stupid wheels, when you can walk?"
I just love watching the animated FRESH Logo on the Homepage🤤😂
You are probably the first and only one to talk about this here on RUclips
We're gonna build a framework. We didn't like the others so we'll write another.
We live in the worst possible time to be a programmer. easy money by building simple HTML web pages is no more and almost everything you learn will be obsolete in 5 years. We finally need that hibernation technology to hibernate for 50 years when the dust has settled and there are established programming languages and frameworks. Image how much you would achieve by actually doing stuff instead of learning new frameworks.
Good to know the guy who made Node and Deno just used the same letters in the name and mixed them up
Love this geek soap opera, can't stop watching this channel, every week is a new plot twist ...
Take ur 90% done project, throw it in the garbage and start over with fresh... 😂
This guy.. always delivers!! Amazing content EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. 🔥🔥
I'm new so I don't know what you're talking about but good shit, man, good shit.
I feel called out on a personal level. 90% before a rewrite. XD
This is a goose chase I think less and less people will be willing to put up with as it goes on.
This future for js frameworks doesn't look very promising, if you ask me.
Would you consider redoing fireship in fresh?
A video on edge and edge functions would be much appreciated
Just what the world needed. Another front-end framework.
Just what we needed, ANOTHER JS framework. Oh but this time THIS little thing has changed! Oh wow!
If you don't need then just don't use it and stop watching a RUclips channel that's basically dedicated to covering new frameworks. the consistent iteration and experimentation is what's pushing web dev forward and making our tools easier to use and more powerful.
Is there actually people anyone who actively tries to stay up to the latest trend and learn the newest latest technology? Because I feel it's impossible there is a new framework and tech every week it feels like. There is no time in the world to dedicate to learn all that stuff. Main reason why I'm thinking of leaving web development and just going to something like graphics programming of just general software dev/engineer. Web Dev is too much for me now.
@@swattalks7624 but there will come a time when any or all of those frameworks are left behind and no longer used.
well, aren't we all keeping up with what's new by simply watching these videos? I don't need to work with every new one, just to know they exist.
@@vectoralphaSec then you jump to whatever is the big one at the time. You do that every 10 years or so, and 3 frameworks later it's time to retire anyways.
Saw you starred the repo some hours ago and boom here’s the video!
2 more frameworks and we are back to 2005's PHP! hold on, almost there!
What happened on 2005 with php? I'm just got into PHP as my first web app language
exactly
@@sweetmelon3365 PHP5 was big deal. Although if you are learning right now you should focus on PHP8.