Is playing to track cheating?
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2019
- My band Sungazer plays to backing tracks - are we cheating? Or are we simply continuing the tradition of Pierre Schaefer and the electroacoustic avant-garde of the 1950's? Or...is that just a pretentious way of justifying lazy practice?
I was recently on an episode of PBS Sound Field where I jammed with Nahre Sol, a classical pianist, and LA Buckner, a gospel/R&B drummer, and talked about our different backgrounds and approaches to playing. Check it out!
• How Classical, R&B, an...
The band SUNGAZER is...
☀️Adam Neely (that's me!) - Bass
☀️Shawn Crowder - Drums
w/ special guests
☀️Jared Yee - Saxophone
☀️Danae Greenfield - Keys
Definition of Acousmatic Music
trondlossius.no/articles/91-ac...
Antoine Hennion. ”As Fast as One Possibly Can ...”: Virtuosity, a Truth of Musical Performance. Stan Hawkins. Critical Musicological Reflections. Essays in Honour of Derek B. Scott, Ashgate, pp.125-138, 2012. ffhal-00771908f
ELECTRONIC MUSIC is the new acousmatic music
brettworks.com/2012/02/13/on-...
The relationship of Husserlian phenomenology to the work of Pierre Schaeffer
pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a94f...
3 Fantaisies for Solo Flute, Op.38
Friedrich Kuhlau
Performed by Paolo Dalmoro
imslp.org/wiki/3_Fantaisies_f...)
Whitney Houston lip sync
ftw.usatoday.com/2017/02/whit...
Obama Inauguration performance was pantomimed
www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/ar...
(⌐■_■)
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Peace,
Adam
HEY GUYS! I was recently on an episode of PBS Sound Field where I jammed with Nahre Sol, a classical pianist, and LA Buckner, a gospel/R&B drummer, and talked about our different backgrounds and approaches to playing. Check it out!
ruclips.net/video/ABQ_0ys3It0/видео.html
Also, the background music from 2:01-2:29 is in 17-EDO, where instead of 12 notes per octave I used 17.
Adam I love your videos, keep it up man!!!!
Just came from that video. Nice jam there! Really impressive how Nahre jammed so naturally, knowing her background
Is that All Star you were talking over?
69th like
nice that you can convince yourself in a discussion with ... yourself.
Adam "question in the title, answer in the thumbnail" Neely
He's the anti clickbait clickbait
Didn't expect to see you here, Sawtooth!
It's much more effective than clickbait for me.
@@isetmfriendsofire it's way better and more effective than clickbait for three reasons, 1: he's being honest from the start, so it's trustworthy. 2: it wakes up the curiosity about why he says that, and 3: everybody knows his videos are worth the time.
@@LicMegags Too true, too true
When you realise this video is just 14 minutes of Adam arguing with Adam
Standard Rudy Ayoub stuff.
You mean live Adam arguing with an Adam backing track?
He's totally cheating! A real self debate would be done with a mirror and no electronic enhancements.
*Socratic dialogue intensifies*
Adam Neely vs Nadam Eely
I guess we’re all Contrapoints now
So that's why Ed Sheeran always has to explain his loop pedal to the audience every time he performs.
Yeah, and that's why his looper pedal is so large.
@@ClockworkCreep naw bro, big looper means you get moar toan
hes ed sheeran not a rocker
@@saltybutsain6348 the way you spelt that was funny
“You smug VSauce wannabe” made me fall out of my chair and wake up my family. Thank you.
yeah me too man, i always fall out of my chair when there are crossovers between distantly related YT channels
Yeah.. that's a nice homage..
Yeah, all you lazy guitarists should stop using delays and just play everything a bunch of times ...
I've noticed that a pianist was doing just that at a concert two weeks ago. He had some effects pedals, so he just wanted to get the timing perfect I guess. Real and authentic™ AF
Rob Scallon did a video where he imitated a delay effect by having multiple guitarists playing the same thing at slightly different times.
I really think this is a stretch in terms of an analogy. We're talking about modulation of sound vs. sound source. I don't think the comparison holds water.
Perhaps it's even a joke
Mfw when you can't afford a Carbon Copy but still want the gaze
I love your anti-clickbate
It's such a nice breath of fresh air compared to the rest of this site.
Speaking of which, is clickbait cheating?
And I wish more people copied it
r/antiassholedesign
@@thealientree3821 *Vsauce music intensifies
As a member of a symphonic metal band, I think the line is drawn by WHICH instruments are in the backing track. If the instrument CAN be easily played live, it SHOULD be. For example, it simply isnt realistic to incorporate an entire choir or orchestra on stage for every live performance, so it makes sense to use a backing track. If you are lip synching or pantomiming a guitar performance, it feels much more disingenuous.
There's also the added bonus that if you play to a backing track, you can always guarantee an accurate set length.
I agree. A local death metal band in my city (Dischordia) released an EP with some parts with non-standard instruments for the genre, including flute and marimba. When I saw them play it live, they did all of the standard instruments (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) and even the flute live, but the rest was on a backing track. They obviously put a lot of effort and thought into the show, and it was a well-executed and engaging performance. As a three-man band, there is a limit to what they can do live, and hearing the sounds from the recording played over the live performance enhanced the overall experience.
Yeah it's different for different styles. When I go watch some honest death metal I don't want to hear studio sounds I want to hear the loud and somewhat rough live sound. If it's just the studio version why even bother. It's completely different for bands that use non standard instruments.
Since you mention symphonic metal. Let's consider Nightwish. For some songs the songwriter writes part for an entire orchestra, but usually the band isn't touring with an orchestra. It would be ridiculous to expect everything would be played live. The band wouldn't be what it is without those instruments written into the songs.
Of course, since Nightwish was brought up, even a sick singer isn't always an excuse...
I would also say that it should not just be POSSIBLE, but also REALISTIC. In the rug rundown for Periphery I believe, he mentions that there are backing tracks of another guitar playing harmonies in a few parts because “it just doesn’t make sense to take a sixth person to split the money with, because they would be a fourth guitar player and would have a few lines per song, nothing that would be musically satisfying” which makes complete sense to me.
What’s the name of your band
"Is music some kind of zero sum activity with a clear loser an winner?"
Yes, didn't you have Asian parents and music competitions?
c o m p e t i t i v e j a z z
No
@@michaels882 first one to hit the butter notes loses.
lmao true
There's a pub bassist on YT smashing the lick on a bass for 5 hours straight.
No wait, it's Adam Neely.
Wait why is so many people liking this comment it ain't even funny
@@unputocalvo because the L I C C
Yeah dude, technology is totally killing music. That’s why I never use instruments or mics.
Gavin McMahan I don’t even have a phone . Technology is bad and Thomas Edison was a witch.
thats not.... the point how could you have missed it so much
The sarcasm is strong in this one 😎
@@frozec8568 wooosh
i agree with you bro
Two of 1975's biggest hits were 10cc's "I'm Not In Love" and Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody," both of which featured massively overdubbed vocal sections. Both bands used backing tapes for shows, but neither band lipsynced with the tapes (Queen even left the stage during the Galileo Galileo part). This allowed the audience to realize they were hearing prerecorded voices that were impossible to reproduce live, and everyone was fine with this arrangement.
you need better examples- yes KISS today uses track but theyre old- in the 70;s it would have been disgracrful
That guy on the classical guitar was hilarious
he nailed it xDDD
In all seriousness though, if you ever put distortion on a classical guitar it sounds SICK. Look up the Nylocaster with distortion pedals to hear.
"Vsauce wannabe"
I'm dead
Don’t forget “smug”
Yeah is this the first time he referenced vsauce🤔 many people comment that this is vsauce for music but adam never talked about that I guess
I like his Vsauce-style style more than the broadcast-television documentarian style he tried on 'The worst jazz solo of all time'.
1:41 fourth wall was broken and was a little too much to handle for Adam.....
His face KILLED me
didnt i just see you on that reddit story video or am i losing it
You didn't even put the right time stamp🤨🤡
I feel like everywhere I turn I see a comment of yours
"musicians of the past didn't use backing tracks"
Have you even seen how much instruments there are in orchestras? You can't expect a rock band have that amount of sound density.
And didn't RUSH play several tunes live -- with a sequencer playing on auto, essentially a backing track?
@@redgrey1453 As did The Who and Queen. Queen would use a track when they did Bohemian Rhapsody because they couldn't do the opera bit live. The Who would use a track for songs like Baba O'Riley, Won't Get Fooled Again, Who Are You, Eminence Front and a few others because they've got synth parts in them.
Some would argue that it isn't meant to.
Not me, but some.
Two words:
Pink Floyd.
@@redgrey1453 Not until the 80s, I believe. Before that it was all triggered live via pedals, Ged or Alex playing Moog Taurus pedals. Once MIDI came along, they started to use programming, but they never used actual tracks, that I know of. 6 and 1 half dozen of the other and it is the same as using a drum machine on stage rather than a tape recording of a drum machine, but using the machine adds an element of DANGER lol. Whereas I always used a DAT then a MiniDisc player, with the drums on one side and the instruments (at one point bass and synths, eventually just synths) in the other, depending on what band members I could get. Drummers were always the hardest for electro bands where I couldn't also get a keyboard player.
Working in the theater world, I am more off put by the use of backing tracks to replace human musicians for which the producer doesn't want to pay. Why have a 13-piece orch when I can get away with 6 and some rockin tracks. It feel like a true subversion of the intent of live theater.
what's next? projecting actors on a screen instead of them playing their parts live?!
@@realGBx64 Well... We aren't as far from that as you might think. I saw a touring cast that used vocal tracks on top the cast to "sweeten" it up. Felt like a church children's musical.
We struggle with this in our opera shows, since string players are hella expensive and you need a conductor for a performance that not many people are going to pay to see. The farthest we can pare it down is one live pianist to save money. It’s a tough situation for non-profit community theater to struggle with. Bigger shows like regional theater and Broadway tours should have live musicians, though, otherwise it’s just karaoke.
@@doubleclickdrama Dude we already have it. They're called movies. They were being sarcastic.
@@realGBx64 I thought that's how they did the Michael Jackson show after his death XD
After watching this, I can safely say that backing tracks are to be used as a SUPPLEMENT, and not a REPLACEMENT.
This is the answer. I would never, ever go to a live show if I knew that all of the members were miming their parts. Why would anyone do that? But I also know that a local band can't hire an entire orchestra to come play at their bar gig - I accept someone slapping some MIDI strings behind their performance, especially if every other band member is busily occupied.
It could be a gateway drug (I mean "supplement") towards no performers needed at all...and then why the hell are you going outside your house to listen to a recording?
It all boils down to feeling the connection, the relatability of the human elements (the emotions, concepts, and experiences that music expresses). I agree with you; if there's at least one actual live performer during a "live" performance, then we still have human relatability present for the music. But if we eventually get to a place where people go out to see a "live" performance with absolutely no person present then we have to wake up immediately to whatever pill we're consoling ourselves with.
They’re fine as a replacement in settings where getting a good performance is likely impossible, for example in many outdoor settings. Otherwise miming feels wrong in a live setting.
And for most if not all of the piece.
See, the main problem i see with playing to track isn't that it's pre-recorded, but that it's "fixed".
How much do you think adam improvises when playing sequence start? I'm gonna say... Barely any improvisation at all.
The thing about live concerts that i like though is exactly that: the unexpected, the improvisation, making do with what you got and evolving the performance in the moment.
If in that moment adam showed where his instruments failed twice in a row they failed a third time too, what would he have done?
If that happened and i was a listener, i would have liked to see him arrange/improvise rather than hear something like "welp guys midi control's bonkers show's over goodbye see ya"
Like ffs, my favorite album of all time, Relayee by Yes got played love only like, twice, and both times there were audio issues on both play and recording... Yet i still enjoyed that.
Because it was, well, live(even if i wasn't there at the concerts tbh), the band had to show they actually knew what they were doing and try to give a decent show anyway, and without putting instrument failures to the conversation, emerson lake & palmer and deep purple also dod a lot of improv or at least variation compared to base songs during their lives, and theirs are some of the best live showa I've ever listened to(live in Stockholm, made in japan, welcome back to the show that never ends, etc)
For non Acousmatic sounds, perfect. Couldn't have phrased better myself
"We can do research, too. That's when we are at our most obnoxious."
What is most obnoxious is positng what we've just heard spoken only moments ago.
@Russell WhiteWhat is truly obnoxious is pointing out that I pointed that you pointed out.
@Russell White The fact that you're so insistent on being pessimistic about the amount of time that we'll be here is the really obnoxious part
@@kameqblindweaver8296 Hmm, but is it more obnoxious than pointing out that he's being pessimistic when he's simply pointing out facts though? (Oh wait, so he's obnoxious toward facts??)
To be fair, at the super bowl, the Red Hot Chili Peppers were forced to mime everything do to logistical problems and actually didn't even plug in their guitars as a sign of protest.
6:25 It feels inauthentic when I hear the word "non-acousmatic" but see the word "non-acousmastic". My cross-modal synthesis gets all messed up.
ah "acousmatic" another word for me to casually slip into conversations to make people think im smart
Make sure to drop in more. Musique concréte and especially spectralism.
ME! omg
Why do you think I watch adam neely videos?
Also, "congruent".
I think that's also a mathematical term, but I don't remember what it is.
Ah yes, one extra large combo. With extra acousmaticism, please
there's a difference between playing to a backing track, and miming. If someone's miming at a live show, that's when you can feel cheated
Yeah, bad analogies there.
What if the singer has a last minute problem like a cold or a vocal chords injury ? For big stars it's not that easy to cancel a huge show with thousands of fans coming from everywhere. And for a small band its not easy to cancel their gigs because.. You need to eat
@@thesteaksaignant depending on the band they either do a instrumental set, cancel the show or get someone to fill in on vocals for that night.
@@thesteaksaignant But that is why big stars cancel shows sometimes. I would want my money back if Mraz came out and just played guitar while his vocals played on backing track. But for a club with local bands? I wouldn't mind much. It still would be a bummer of a show if the music was vocal intensive like any mainstream music with lyrics throughout the song. But it can be explained away by bands at venues where people aren't expecting a spectacle. Backing track solutions are not universal.
@@SamBorgman I essentially agree with you, but I can see why in some cases the decision can be made. For stars it can also be the production that pushes for that solution to avoid the loss of money.
For me it depends on the band and the expectations of the show. I went to see Muse and the show was so tight and they sounded just perfect. I know they had tons of backing tracks, but it contributed to the show as a whole, just a big epic performance. If I go to see a jam band though I'm expecting that the songs could sound very different form the album and there's potential for the band to suddenly change directions because they're all in the moment. Playing perfectly composed pieces and pure improvisation both have their places depending on the purpose of the show.
I guess, as always, honesty and transparency are key here
I think that’s why people don’t mind electronic music being pre-recorded - they never expected it to be played live
But you can see Ed Sheeran’s loop pedal and hear him creating his “backing track” live. It’s obviously not prerecorded...
You're forgetting average Joe who doesn't know what a loop pedal is and still thinks autotune is a magic voice that makes a bad singer great
@@colmivers I dont know if he does it at every show but when I saw ed live he explained how his loop pedal worked at the start of the show so that people wouldnt get confused by the sound of a 4 piece band coming out of one person with a guitar
@@colmivers Hmm. Watching Madonna at the Eurovision song contest recently, was embarrassing, until the Autotune chromatic mode was turned on for the second song. And yes, it made a bad singer sound...."acceptable"????
*There’s a pub singer on telly...*
Well we know what looper is but it’s only because we’re sad nerds
I use backing tracks to secretly play the licc over my own bassline
BASS
I'd say you missed the most compelling reason why sometimes people are right to not want their live musicians to play to a track. I think a lot of people (myself included) often really like the creative constraint of a live show needing to be the music a group of people can make together using the instruments they can play. The question of what instruments and technology are available to musicians has shaped every genre and musical tradition we've ever known, and in a way using a backing track while performing is sidestepping this productive creative constraint, often going against some traditions of the style of music the band is trying to play.
Another perspective on the same point: I don't think it's unfair for a concert listener to be a little disappointed to find out that a band sidestepped the question of how to translate a composition and arrangement on a record into a live show with a limited ensemble. That challenge can lead to some very interesting musical places. It's kind of the inverse challenge of a three piece band coming into the studio and working with a producer to build out the arrangement to make a more interesting/ functional record. Granted, using backing tracks isn't the only way to lose this dynamic of the constraints of live shows often making for more interesting music (The Eagles), but from what I can tell, most of the times when bands use backing tracks it's to fill a gap between what they can do alone, and the studio version of the song.
PS I definitely don't think of this as a rule, I saw a 21 Pilots concert with my sister where they used backing tracks for most instruments and it was absolutely insane (because in their pop/rock// whatever genre, the spectacle is more important than this quest for musical intrigue). I also saw a Horse Lords show once where the keyboardist often took breaks from playing keys to use his computer (Max MSP) to mangle, warp, and sometimes just directly play back pre-recorded material, that was also amazing. To me a lot of it has to do with genre, and even beyond that the kind of sociological place of the musicians in question. Obviously working musicians want to be masters of their own fate in the way they write and play their music, but I also think it pays to think about your historical place, the traditions that are coming to bear on you, and why people like what they like.
Yeah I agree. One of the coolest things for me is seeing a beatles tribute band try and play their songs with only two guitarists, a bassist, and a drummer. And maybe a keyboard player. One band I've seen a lot does an absolutely mind blowing cover of A Day In The Life where they manage to sound like the whole double tracked orchestra with only a keyboard player as an extra. That's part of the fun, working out how to play these incredibly complicated things with the bare minimum amount of instruments. It's a game of arrangement and that's really interesting to me
Though I don't dislike the use of backing tracks either. But yeah just a lot of what I play is turning things like electronic music into solo acoustic guitar songs and making it sound good. I love arranging. So I love seeing other musicians doing that too. It's not about getting an exact replica of the recorded track, it's about making something new and interesting because of the constraints you're put under.
"The question of what instruments and technology are available to musicians has shaped every genre and musical tradition we've ever known"
Yeah, and the computer and digital audio workstation are technologies available to musicians, and they are shaping the current musical tradition.
@Matias vanorder gonzalez Since you mentioned the Twenty One Pilots.
I've seen a lot of their live shows and I was kind of disappointed that their approach plays almost no role in the argument of this video. Because they don't use the occasional backing track while performing the rest of the song live, it's usually the opposite. Drums, some piano stuff and most of the singing (and nowadays a trumpet played really off tune by Josh Dun) are performed live, at least the other 50% are completely backing track or pre-recorded loops (In case of the trumpet, please stick to that).
Now the point is; I still believe the two of them to put all of their heart and energy in their live shows, you can clearly see that. Also they do not want to trick anybody, I think no one who goes to a TOP concert expects the songs to played 100% live. And nobody will go "WAIT A MINUTE, Tyler is crowdsurfing but the singing is still going on. I got them! They're CHEATING!"
What this tells me is, there is no "right" way of presenting music right, it's all to do with situation and context. Depending on the genre, the festival, the musician, the band, the instruments used etc. the audience expects a certain part of music performed live. If that expectation is confirmed by the actual show - good. If not - maybe acceptable, if there is no feeling of foul play. If someone with an acoustic guitar pretends to play an electric guitar solo and fakes all the emotional body movement too - that's ridiculous. But again, if I EXPECT someone to make fun of faking with backing tracks and the see the guitar solo Adam showed in the video, it's all right again. Again, it's all to do with context, no performance is bad in itself. Also, no amount of real instruments used is good in itself.
Let's all just accept what the musicians want to offer us and, as long as there's no really obvious faking, enjoy what we get. It makes life much easier.
You judge the talent of a singer by how they can do it in person, not with autotune, or 20 takes in the studio.
Same way with guitar, keys. If it's all a backing track, it makes it seem the producer played all the instruments in the studio and we get the "pleasure" of seeing the musicians move their hands and lips to a track.
@@noeloumard9106 I was watching some of their old concerts on RUclips, and they definitely put in the energy for only 2 people
Personally, one of the reasons I like live performances in the first place is hearing the creative way they try to recreate the energy of studio version with the constraints they're under, knowing they can't overdub themselves a hundred times. I think a lot of artists put too much emphasis on sounding identical to the original without questioning whether that's necessary, because what sounds good in a studio versus a club versus the Staples Center are all very different things.
So I guess that's my problem with backing tracks. It takes a puzzle that's historically been fun to watch musicians solve and glues the pieces together.
"Shut up you Vsauce wannabe !" Adam's throwing some mad shade at himself. It got a laugh out of me. 😇
How can you possibly criticize someone that criticizes himself? Pure genius really.
1:45 "yOu SmUG VsAuSE WAnNa-bE"
yikes! dat be sum self hate rite der
Not just wannabe Vsauce but ALSO bill wurth at 2:20
Not a fan of that skit tbh. It's a bit too much at this point lol
It's true, lets be honest.
Very Contrapoints.
@@Altroante Yeah I did figure that people wouldn't like that kind of skit there so I wouldn't blame you for saying that. This reply was totally pointless I know.
You never cease to amaze me with these videos. As I've watched your channel over the years, you have really made some fundamental changes in how I think about music and life with your videos, and this is just another time that that has happened. I really want to thank you for bettering me as a person.
For me, to go to see “live music” is really to see the artist interact live with their creations, whether the music is being recreated in that moment or simply being backtracked or even lip-synced. What you’re witnessing is the LIVING relationship between the music and the performers. We are seeing, in a live performance, is what the art means to the artists/performers. You don’t get that from listening to music at home. You don’t even get that from watching a performance on RUclips. It is, quite literally, a *momentary* event. There will always be variations on how a performer views the music they’re playing at different times. Live performances mark these variations. These changes should be welcomed because that means the artist/performer is developing. Even though it *seems* like it’s the same performance, it never is, because the ever-growing artist is never the same. Contexts are never entirely the same. Major events can happen to the performer between one concert and the next, changing the relationship between them and the music. Whether it’s how they play, what they are playing, or even how they’re interacting with the audience, members, or themselves, the relationship is constantly morphing. In live performances, we are watching artists *live* (l-ih-ve) WITH and IN what they have created and are creating.
I go to a concert, watch the band (one of my all-time favorites) and the singer killing it when the lady next to me says, "Did you know he/she really isn't singing right now. It's a recording. The singer has laryngitis." Granted it's a live show which IS sounding great AND I can't fault the singer for being ill, but am I going to get the same feeling of satisfaction now that I know this? In spite of the fact the band is just rocking the house, having an incredible night, am I going to one day look upon it as one of my favorite concerts ever? No way. The singer's voice was spliced in and I know that fact from the very 1st song.
So at that point I don't give a damn if the singer is "interacting" with his/her creation, or that I'm witnessing a LIVING relationship between the music and the performer. Of course there is a momentous connection between the performance and the performers, that's a given and it's huge, but by their own choice they are now doing a public thing and selling it for money. I want my money's worth. And a lip-synced performance, sick singer or not, is TO ME not as legit. I won't fault the band for their choice to perform, but it won't be as real an experience for me.
Who knows, maybe the only two audience members who know the singer isn't singing is the lady and me. All the others watching, feeling and hearing have no idea there's a recorded singer up there, so their experience will be unfettered by their ignorance. Maybe some of them will say it was the greatest show ever by the best band ever. And to contradict myself a bit, what if that lady hadn't told me...?
So then would you create a specific word for live performed music without any soft of backing tracks/music that is not coming from the artist at the specific moment? Because I'd would be going to those types of concerts, even if I had the choice to go to a concert with backing tracks, I woudn't. I would save my money for those special, niche concert type where the performer makes the music 100%.
@@jbmw16 I've had musical projects before where the entire act was just me and someone, and I programmed drums and recorded bass and played keyboards, and when we performed live I would play guitar over the backing tracks that I had performed because I couldn't find anyone to play the music live. The style of music was niche and it wasn't some sort of band where I could hire people, it was original music where any pay for shows gets funneled back into the band. So, in your mind, artists like myself should be robbed of playing live? The singer and myself would be performing every show. And as I added members to the band, we got closer to not having to use pre-recorded tracks. Until finally we were able to play a few shows before imploding. Probably from gaining all of the new members with all of the opposing opinions, rather than just her and I in the first place, making our music and doing just fine. Electronically based bands have frequently used programmed drums on recordings, so theoretically, they are also being performed live as they were on record. Programmed.
"Music isn't a sport" "Music isn't a competition"
Drum corps international would like to know your location
Guh
Beatboxing community would like to have a word with you
@@djevon4853 I don't know anything about dci I've never marched it or anything 👀
DCI is crazy you actually have to buy and pay for everything and the training hours are strenuous and rigorous. winter drumline in high school alone we didnt go home until like 7pm
imagine if the old timers thought corps nowadays use backing tracks
I love that you actually had a good debate with the "Doubter" with actually points, not just painting the audience or opposition as asking stupid questions
The retorts were pretty stupid
Just wanted to drop this.
This channel is fire. I've been watching these videos for years and you always somehow come up with the best questions everybody has in such a objective way. Love your channel and will continue to do so!
Something you don't bring up yet (unless I missed it):
Permitting backing tracks opens up new creative avenues for composers. It lets them work around instruments that aren't present in their band, it let's them combine more layers in their songs and more. It's just another tool of the trade, which comes with costs and benefits.
Yes! Finally, Adam admits he is the Vsauce of music.....
Or is he?
* cue Vsauce intro music *
Hey! Vsauce, Adam Neely here
But *WHAT*... is Adam [weird music plays]
@@sciencecompliance235 is SOUND?
Reading "cue Vsauce intro music" made it play in my head.
I got way too excited when you mentioned Pierre Schaeffer. Studying his work is what finally opened my mind to electronic music after years of saying I only liked "real" instruments.
Going to a concert only to have the musicians play mostly prerecorded music is like going to a Broadway show and seeing a video of the performance.
dude, i would love that opportunity! if broadway keeps refusing to put out pro-shots to the public, id be down for seeing either a live show or a video of the show, just as long as i actually get to see it (but srsly Broadway please please release more pro-shots i beg you)
Like a movie theater?
Yah and if you want a play to be actually real you need the actors to actually die like in Romeo and Juliet or else it isn't a true performance
Did Adam just use pre recorded lines to have an argument with himself?
I think it's a Knowing Better (youtuber) reference, though I may be wrong
That's cheating!
I can't believe we just watched a pre recorded video over the internet. I'm totally robbed of the authentic experience.
he does it all the time
@@MMM-rw6bl wait really? I definitely didn't know it at all
No one:
Marching band kids: BuT mArChInG bAnD iS a SpOrT
Drum Corps International would like to have a word with you
bandos*
Let's Jam
Especially those quint players
@@TheOnlyBootlegger You mean Marching Band International.
I remember some fat asshole band kid got out of basketball conditioning because he was in marching band and he thought that marching band was harder. He puked his guts out during tryouts.
😂😂😂 "There's a pub singer on the telly..." Got me everytime
When I was a kid, I actually saw James Taylor in concert. He used that reel-to-reel on "Shower the People" for the backing vocalists, prefacing it with a dry, "Portions of this program may have been prerecorded."
Adam Neely: This is not an authentic experience
*shows acoustic electric guitar solo
I died 😂
not even just acoustic, classical/nylon string acoustic!
That solo is basically legendary.
Mozart would have creamed his pantaloons for backing tracks
Could you imagine if that dude had a DAW?
@@joez6235 he would need a pc with 128 gigs of ram and double server grade xeon cpu
Joe Z how can you possibly know this
@@joez6235 ahahaha yeah totes bro ive pondered about that before 👍
@@user-cw9lf3gl6x lolol ...Mozart would have used Linux i reckon, so 32 gb max Id say :P
I had so much fun watching and learning. Thank you for introducing me to a new topic. So much fun.
Bro this video is an absolute masterpiece!!!!
I absolutely love the waythat you play out the argumentative dialogue between the two dichotomies...reminds me of the same inner turmoil I deal with on a daily basis regarding every decision of even the smallest importance lol
Well done sir!!!
Also, Deadmau5 shows are 100% prerecorded, its about an experience of the whole show, not just the music.
And really, Deadmau5 is a genius and anyone denying that either doesn't know him or is lying
Yeah, He has openly said that he focuses more on visual experience than performing authentic live music. But atleast since the cube came out, he has real synths playing midi tracks to ableton live. So there is some sort of live music thing there but mostly its planned out on ableton and midi tracks for synths.
it makes a huge difference for me to feel the illusion that Deadmau5 or another DJ is "in control" of the session -- triggering sounds, reacting to the audience, being in the moment. a 100% preset playlist can achieve this illusion. but some (a lot?) of DJs fail at this. kind of interesting.
What show?
@@IndigoDesert6 If its a performance that the audience enjoys, more power to him, even if he's not actually playing. Its showbiz, not football.
1:45 “you smug Vsauce wannabe” I laughed so hard I accidentally held my breath and nearly suffocated
So good
yeah lmao
he's finally with that joke
I went to an open jam session at a bar once where I performed 3 of my own songs using sequenced tracks, with me singing and soloing. What was fun was on the last song, a drummer and guitarist joined me and took over playing the song when the sequenced tracks ended. Great jam!
I could have used all of your videos when I was in performance arts highschool. You are a better instructor than my highly dismissive and pretentious jazz instructor. I played bass and became extremely discouraged for a million reasons. But you make several points that clear up so much and unlike my formal teachers, you make me want to play music. Thank you, so much.
hey wanabe vsauce, adam here
is music a sport?
*vsauce theme starts*
except the vsauce theme is remixed into the lick
I want the _real authentic experience_ not a backtrack of Vsauce's music played virtually through my mobile screwn
Adam's videos would be a lot shorter if he responded to every criticism with "Well, that's just your opinion man".
Well that’s just like, your opinion man
I appreciate this so much
Much shorter but also much less informative
this channel motivates me to practice, thanks for the academic content my guy
"We can do research too
*That's when we're at our most obnoxious!"*
Yes, that is what he said
Adam Neely vs. Nega-Neely
Nega Chin
neely'nt
thank you so much for this Scott pilgrim reference
Adam is finally waking up to his meme potential
I am proud
Mateusz Grzesiak we all are
Thank you... Finally clarity and honesty on this frustrating ongoing argument. What is real music and what is performance.
Interesting thoughts as usual, informative and entertaining to watch! Thanks for the video!
Lol would love to see Devin Townsend put on a concert where every instrument/ layer is played live... the band would be as big as the audience
Exactly dude has 30 tracks on vocals alone for one song lol. All his voice. Gotta create clones just for that.
@@crowing3886 Michael Jackson used to do that throughout the 1988 bad tour, where he would have the vocals backing track and the live background sing together to make it sound as one. he did this particularly with his voice, because performing the dance moves would take too much breath.
@@theshyguy1580 true, that's how backing should work as a enhancement, not a complete replacement.
Space violin - > obama is an alien - > area 51 confirmed
I've seen enough on this planet to know that somebody would have actually gone through that mental process.
Carbon fibre looks more like crocodile skin than an aerospace material, thus:
croc violin -> obama is a reptilian
Carbon fibre is black -> you can fill in the rest
Some dumb nigga would've actually retroactively thought something like that and used it as a conspiracy. It already happens now
Really insightful, I’m inspired to use more backing tracks now when I perform. Thanks for your always excellent work
1:38 So Self-aware. I almost spit out my coffee. 👏
I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Thank you, smug Vsauce wannabe
OK from now on may everyone refer to you as "Smug Vsauce Wannabe"
I really need to listen to this Sungazer's live performance. Pretty pleeease.
This is the first channel putting the answer in the thumbnail for the question from the title
Heard this argument and thought I'd share: Some concert goers attend shows to see musicians do things that other musicians can't. i.e. improv over difficult chord changes, sing high/low notes that are difficult to hit, or hear a favorite song performed in a new way. In this circumstance people aren't going to the concert to listen to the music, they're going to watch a performance. If the performance they paid to see isn't really happening why shouldn't they be upset? Imagine going to watch a play or musical and instead the theatre puts on the movie version of the show. This isn't what you wanted especially if you've already seen the movie.
Indeed people go to the theatre now and see just a TV programme of the real event!
Bands like Tesseract play with some elements of backing tracks so they don’t require numerous members to play layered music live
It's pretty much the only way that they can perform their music, a lot of people seem to forget how difficult it is to ensemble more than 2 or 3 people on stage, specially for a touring band.
everyone plays backing track
even small bands have extra tracks and in ears with click tracks
Fabián Riquelme Yeah. It’s difficult. So why bother assembling more musicians. 🙄
Almost every progressive band does it.
You should see what Eluveitie pulls off live!
I think the most important thing to get across is to make sure the audience does not feel like they are being deceived.
Cool essay. Enjoyed it. Learned some things.
Man I am SO glad black-and-white-telephone-filter-Adam is back
in conclusion: kinda
In conclusion:
Yos
In conclusion: Well yes, but actually no
Amazing video and explanation to things I've felt but never fully understood. I'm going to send this to my sister who's a professional dancer as to why music selection pairing to choreography matters so much to casual audience appeal.
Been subscribed to your channel for a while. Somehow never thought to look you up on Spotify or anything. I'm really digging your Sungazer stuff!
To actually add to the discussion, I'm a really big fan of watching a performer play a song and gradually set up tracks on a loop. Playing one or more instruments and "building" the song live in front of you. It's super cool, and I find it very powerful even if it can feel a bit lonely having only one "band member".
Seeing people get sassy about that kind of performance sucks, but I guess that's the point of making an argumentative piece on the subject, after all.
"There's a PUB singer..." LOL
Its definitely cheating, it robs me of the experience of the possibility of making fun the professional musician when they make mistakes while playing live. I want my money back!
Yee Sen Chai 😂😂😂
It's actually not a bad point. With a true live performance there's an element of risk - I guess it doesn't make a difference if you don't know it's fake beforehand, though.
@@stoferb876 That isn't the same risk though. A musician failing is human and dramatic, where as a machine failure is more annoying and blameable.
I like it when performances aren't perfect. Small mistakes add a certain charm.
@@KeithPickeringGuy When playing to a track, there is also a huge risk of screwing it, so....
This reminded me of the Stop Making Sense concert video by Talking Heads. On the song "Psycho Killer", David Byrne starts by saying "Hi, I've got a tape I wanna play" and setting down a boombox which he presses play on, and at the same time a TR-808 drum machine (located offstage) starts playing. At the time when the video was made it would have been relatively rare to see a live band playing along to a drum machine except in a "pub singer" type environment - so the boombox fulfills a similar purpose to the reel-to-reel in the video - to make the "backing track" more acceptable to the audience. Before I saw your video I never really understood why he did that, but this gives it some context I needed. Thanks for making this! It gave me a lot to think about.
Btw all those background mini musical pieces, such as the one at 2:02, are super cool. They work really well with the narrative.
1:42 literally every one of Adam's fans the first time they saw one of his videos: 1:42
When I hear an 808 I literally picture the numbers 808 in huge round pulsating green font. Why? 😩
Meth
Nigga what
For me it's a big black textureless 3d model of a kick drum suspended in cyberspace and pulsating with every hit
synesthesia
I think of sine wave that is so damn distorted it's actually square wave
I just realized I been binge watching your videos for t least 6 hours... I can't believe it's already 8 in the morning.
One thing I've taken away from this experience is this: Watching you is like watching Jeopardy.... There is a lot of information being received while learning nothing ;D
The only thing I can REALLY remember is how you got too high once...... a shitty singer in a wedding ruined an elton john song, and playing out in the street is called busking..... That busking thing I won't forget. At least I've expanded my vocabulary!!! Thank you Adam!
Great video Adam, keep up the amazing work. I really enjoyed the footage of Sungazer that was featured in this video and would like to know where I can view it? I really enjoy the music that Sungazer releases.
Buckethead plays to nothing but backing tracks, his shows are always awesome!
He spins nunchucks to a backing track.
Not the same as he doesn't have a pre recorded guitar track.
stimpson j cat its still "Playing with a backing track" which, according to music experts, is A NO NO no matter what the circumstance
Nah...
Using a solo virtuoso guitarist as an example is reaching pretty hard though
1:11 "I mean, what - you're not good enough to play your own music? Yeah, you're a cheater."
No, Adam, I'm a composer.
Which Adam is, Adam.
So. Uh. Case closed right there as far as I'm concerned, Adam.
But what is Adam? *Smug Vsauce Wannabe music plays*
Followed by a cut to Bill Clinton saying ""It depends upon what the meaning of the word _is_ is."
Where do I go to see this live sungazer performance in the background?
holy shit, you're in sungazer? I was totally into that band, and your channel, without realizing the connection. awesome!
I've been a big fan of The Who for over a decade and have never seen anyone complain about their use of tape tracks for "Baba O'Riley" and "Won't Get Fooled Again." I've also been a fan of They Might Be Giants for longer, and I think I remember people upset when they switched from backing tracks to a live band.
That's pretty hilarious. To be fair, TMBG's sound changed a LOT when they switched over to a live band.
Not Constant eh? Nope, Elle.
Yes, i was going to comment about The Who
And you're right, those two songs is always played with backing track but people still waiting them to doing it in every concert
An 808 kick drum looks like a 20 inch rimmed cadillac trunk shaking + rattling windows
YES! So glad you defined what I've been struggling with for so long with the "acousmatic" stuff. I have a solo project that mixes electronic and post-rock elements, and have tried playing out solo myself. The electronic aspects feel fine to have in tracks, but as soon as acoustic drums or guitar tracks come in I feel like such a phony. I've spent a lot of time trying to find the least amount of live musicians it would take to eliminate any non-acousmatic sounds from the tracks, and even things like ebow guitar ride the line for me!
recently i saw a live performance of a group of 5 singers , one of the singers couldn't go to health reasons and they played his parts with a narrower EQ and reverb among other fx, making clear that he was far away but still there in someway it was an awesome way of handling the situation
PROTIP: Make sure the backing track and band are in the same key!
Or what? What are you gonna do if I don’t? Yeah that’s right! Nothing! You dumb fucking cretin. Fuck you.
and never play the backing tracks at 48KHz sampling frequency
I regularly have to play with a duo or trio without a drummer, because otherwise the band would be too expensive - that's a reality too, at least here in Germany. A bridal pair or a venue holder who wants a Top 40 often isn't willing to pay 3 or 4000€. So he sticks with 2000€ for three musicians, PA, light etc. The music, aside from guitar, keyboard/piano and of course the vocals, comes out of the OnSong app for my iPad. It's kind of frustrating, because I think we would be perfectly abled to perform the music completely live, but without these kind of gigs I 100% wouldn't be able to support my family and my career as a working musician.
€2000? where in Italy?
Just make sure you disclose it, and no one is deceived into paying for something they don't get.
You have it easy: the lack of drums clearly means you're using backing, so if people didn't like it, you'd be out of a job quickly. So clearly people are okay with tour mixed live/prerecorded experience, same as at a concert with only a singer.
@@BrunoNeureiter Germany
Weird. I just found your channel a week or so ago, but had been jamming to Sungazer Vol 2. all year. Didn’t connect the two until watching this video. Cool stuff.
Where can we find the live performance of Sungazer that's playing in B-roll?
On the Ed Sheeran loop pedal "Drama", I've started to notice that TV producers have started to have his pedals in shot when he's manipulating them, possibly removing the disconnect... if people know what pedals are
I think it's a good and important technique to clue people in, but i don't think people who are not intimately familiar with this style of performance are familiar with the loop pad/pedal as an instrument. And ultimately it does not fully remove the disconnect, it's just something that people, having been introduced to the instrument, have to internalise and get used to on their own time.
I was introduced to the looper by Reyn Owehand at one of his live performances decades ago and loved it IMMEDIATELY in spite of not seeing the pedal - my brain went like "wait, i understand how this works, he has a machine that allows him to play with his past self from 10-20 seconds ago by accumulating the sound electronically" and my brain also hallucinated a picture of him being in 4, 5 places on stage at the same time thanks to a wonderful fantastical soundscape, but... i understand how it would make someone surprised and angry rather than surprised and blissful.
People don’t know what pedals are.
@@kellanmurakami5340 people think overdrive and distortion is just the natural sound of an electric guitar.
I know people are saying long ass paragraphs but can you collab with Davie504
Bass battle 👍🏼
How would Adam collab with a meme channel?
@@Pvkasz Adam doesnt have any channel memes? At all? Are you sure? D E F G E C D
@@Pvkasz Maybe he can get #Davie504 to do some more musical stuff again.
Adam should teach him the L i C k
The video is so much better for having tackled the arguments in earnest instead of just building strawmans for the sake of comedy - really, really good!
It's really interesting to think about it!