Cho Chang & the Gaslighting of Racist Online Abuse
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- I want to talk about the recent discussion around about Harry Potter actress Katie Leung recently spoke about the racist online harassment that she faced after being cast in the series, and how she was told to keep it quiet. I think it is incredibly important to highlight what she had to say, especially given a lot of the current conversations that we need to be having around harassment and violence towards people of color, and especially in this context, those of Asian heritage.
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I like your work, but giving a slight heads up as an East Asian in solidarity... India is in Asia as well, and there were Indian characters in the form of Parvati and Padma Patil. I know this is an easy error to make, since they never "feature" quite like Cho Chang does in the books, but I thought you might want to be aware of it. The other points are done well, though. I just didn't want the error of saying India isn't in Asia to be repeated.
Indeed, this was totally my error, thank you for pointing it out ❤️
I remember growing up and being corrected to call people from India "Indian" instead of "Asian". I was made to believe these were distinct groups of people who shouldn't be grouped together in any way. Was this some sort of weird colonialism based distinction or just the adults in my life having weird specificities on the groupings of other cultures? I feel like this isn't a unique experience to just my upbringing, hense bringing it up here for discussion.
@@DementedGodsend Depends? I can kinda see how people who use Asian to mean East Asian would rather correct you to say Indian rather than correct themselves to just say East Asian. That being said we should just be specific and say like, East Asian and South Asian.
@@DementedGodsend In the UK the term 'Asian' when used as a racial profile usually refers to people from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Sri-Lanka. Unfortunately the colonialist term 'Oriental' is still fairly common as a racial profile term here in the UK, to the point where many Chinese restaurants will even have the term 'Orient' in their name.
It's true, you can't forget indian people as asian. However it's sorta easy to do in this case because other than being backup dates for harry and ron they aren't much more than literary scenery. Which reinforces your point.
I remember when this happened. People were saying that there are no Asian Scotish people. Even though this actress IS an Asian Scotish person playing a character specifically written to be Asian-Scotish. But you can't really expect more than that from racist idiots.
Lmao I really don't get this one. There are immigrants of Chinese descent pretty much everywhere.
Yes, that’s what I remember seeing and have continued to see pop up since in otherwise really progressive HP fan communities. It’s really weird - as a Scot I can promise you there are plenty of Scottish Chinese people. I loved Katie in the films and on the basis of Oliver Wood also being played by a Scottish actor it is now my head canon that Scottish witches and wizards are all really good quidditch players!
Do you remember the Rue "Scandal" from Hunger Games? People were freaking out when a African-American girl was cast in the role. Even though in the book she is described as African-American. But they had apparently not paid enough attention and thought the character was a white girl and it apparently upset them so much to realize the character they got attached too was black. People are incredibly self-focused and intolerant.
Did Garth Marenghi say that?
Lol...just go to Edinburgh! Quite a few Asian Scotsmen and women!
I will say in the book, Cho Chang was at least more than some cute girl Harry liked. She was a great athlete. Like with many things, JKR dropped the ball hard at the end and buried the character on the sidelines, but she was at least introduced as this cool smart athlete who happened to be a young Asian woman. All the Harry Potter movies did was make her the object of Harry's lust. As one of the few Asian characters, while not overtly pornographic, is still a fetishism almost of an Asian young woman wile cutting everything about her character that made her more then some pretty girl Harry liked.
Everyone already hated Cho Chang before the movies even happened (because she wasn't Ginny or Hermione). It's truly terrible that it spilled over to Katie by extension. Who was just some innocent teenage girl at the time.
One thing I somewhat preferred in the movies was that rather than having Cho staunchly defend her friend even when it was obvious she had betrayed the DA and then get very jealous of Hermione, film Cho was actually put under the effects of Veritaserum to reveal the DA instead.
On the other hand, that kinda makes film Harry even more of an ass for just discarding her since that was something completely out of her control.
yes
I always thought she was an interesting character. It’s kind of a shame she didn’t get to play a bigger role in the stories, but I guess that’s a problem when a series has a few too many other characters to focus on.
I feel like Cho in general was done dirty by having her be Harry's crush. She had so much going for her as a character, being intelligent (Ravenclaw, after all), athletic, and one of the rather small number of female Quidditch players--the only female Seeker until Ginny, whose sudden introduction as a seeming Quidditch wunderkind felt a little forced, in order to give her and Harry a shared interest and more direct time together. Instead, Cho winds up being the weepy, overly emotional, slightly creepy girl that makes Harry glad he dodged that bullet, when she seems to want nothing except for Harry to talk about what happened when Cedric died. It's a little creepy and messed up, and a horrible way to write any female character, even taking into account the clear way that Rowling wanted to write off any love interest Harry might have besides Ginny at that point.
@@Mokiefraggle also can we talk about how everyone hated her becouse she "snitched" on them while being under influence of truth serum. Avery single person including even Harry woud say the same thing if they were forced to drink the serum. I remember it made me so mad while re-watching.
The Patil sisters really left a sour taste in my mouth for the films.
In the book, the twins have some form of agency. They’re not attached at the hip, nor speak in unison. They’re not even in the same house. Padma is a Ravenclaw and Pavarti is a Gryffindor.
Pavarti is practically attached at the hip to Lavender Brown canonically.
Film couldn’t bother separating them and actually making them different characters like Fred and George.
Who wants to put that much effort in for a couple of brown girls? It's not like they're *real* people
/s, in case my sarcasm wasn't obvious.
@@mittenista nah I'm Australian mate. Sarcasm is our official language.
Those people who say:
"You'll never be a woman" or "you're ugly."
Well, jokes on them. It's pretty obvious to everyone that you are a beautiful woman.
Thr fact that they changed Lavender's race just before she kisses Ron is just blatantly racist. You have a black character and a white character and a kiss in the text. Uh, oh, can't have that.
I didn’t even know this wow.
I don't remember her race ever being discussed in the books until she and Ron hook up. Her being played by a black actress was a directors choice for the movies I believe. But that does beg the question why didn't JK point out the character was white to the director. But then again if it came out that JK stopped the casting of a black actress for a role it would look bad.
@@neerdowell6687 Yeah, I think the race was not a part of the character until suddenly they needed to film her kissing Ron.
I honestly wasn't that upset when they changed Lavender's race even though I wish there was more representation for black females in the series. I personally didn't appreciate black characters being used as rivals: Dean was black and was a rival for Harry's love interest Ginny, then Lavender was also black and a rival for Hermione's love interest Ron. I haven't read the 6th book in quite a long time but if Lavender was anywhere near as annoying in the book as she was in the movie, I'm glad a black female wasn't used to portray her in the end.
@@cutie3638 I admit it's been a good while since I last read the series, but I didn't think Dean was a ploy to make Harry more interested in Ginny; she had a whole existence of her own outside of her crush/obsession with him. She was allowed to live her own life and date people other than Harry.
I think it bears some discussion how we've been trained to see any "outside" relationship of the main character and their love interest as an automatic subplot for jealousy.
Girls can't date other boys, they have to stand by and "save" themselves for the hero to pick up at some point? Girls can't have relationships outside that one true love, otherwise it's a betrayal, it's not real love, she's a clout chaser. She can't have interests of her own, she exists to linger and hope the hero notices her.
Apparently many of the non white casting in the HP movies got this backlash, but being racist when they cast an asian for the character that was explicitly asian in the book is just a whole other level of mind-numbingly stupid: "I'm not racist, I just think that a character named Cho Chang is very evidently white" 🤦♂️
This happened with the character, Rue, from the Hunger Games. Some people felt like they couldn't care about her dying because they casted a black actress despite what the physical description of her in the books was. They pictured her as being blonde and blue-eyed, but that's not even what she was described as in the books.
@@hope-cat4894 I- how can you even defend yourself as not racist after saying that??? Like you're literally saying "I can't empathize with a black person's death unless you cast them as white." Wow. That's psychotic.
@@hope-cat4894 wtf? Seriously? Rue's actress embodied the character.
@@thelovelybunny9012 Exactly I adored the actress she was so close to my mental image of Rue and I adored Rue and cried when she died in the books. When I heard the outrage of the casting I was so confused.
You see, this character that the name is a mix of two asian surnames is actually really really white... just ignore the whole series ok, I assure you.
I'm not even surprised anymore that "fans" complain about a character named Cho Chang being played by a girl of Chinese descent. When the movies first came out, a fan community I belonged to had a meltdown about how minor character Blaise Zabini was black. Because he'd been used as a love interest in their fanfics and, well, they were all racist as fuck.
That feeling when you realize that these fans read their fanfics more than the source material...
One thing that weirded me out was how Blaise was a guy in book 7. I always imagined that name belonging to a girl. And a belated mention of skin colour is weirdly prevalent in HP. Angelica Jones is only said to be black in Book 3, despite being a character since Book 1.
@@TheDanishGuyReviews I think it was Red Hen Publications (an HP essay archive) who observed that Harry is actually a pretty unobservant, self-centred kid.
I remember that: there was this fan idea that Blaise was a white girl, and usually paired with Draco, even though we never actually saw the character until book 6, at which there was outrage. I recall my reaction is "I can't see Draco being friends with a black person, but I completely forgot Zabini was a character"
@@Tareltonlives Oh, that's actually a good point. Dude was racist as hell to Hermione, so l don't see him drawing the line at something as obvious as skin colour.
Cho Chang being the only East-Asian representation in HP was treated as Katie Leung's fault, when it was in fact JK Rowling's....because dog forbid anybody ever criticize JKR!
And even if the films had whitewashed any additional Asian characters from the books it still wouldn’t be Katie’s fault. She’s just an actor cast for a role, (a literal teenager at the time) she has nothing to do with how many total Asian characters there were in the film.
@@SpaceCase1701 Yes, I'm sure that the people that harassed her online were totally just upset that there weren't more Asian characters in HP... :))
@@suzygirl1843 Yeah, the harassment would not have been for that reason, if anyone did claim that it would have been a smokescreen excuse. Either way blaming Katie Leung herself for anything is bullshit.
I mean yeah growing up in a different time gets you only so far. While I agree Rowling made some effort to some levels of inclusion (mostly after the fact), she then adds more things that set everything back again. Her views on trans people being the obvious one right now, but also the super insensitive Native American culture stuff in her ‘magic users in America’ backstory, the whole bullshit with Nagini in Crimes of Grindlewald...
i feel like she adds diversity but ONLY in the side character. the main three and main side characters are all white but the side ones like Dean, Angela(?), Patel twins, Cho Chang, etc. are diversity characters who barely ever make appearances.
@@suzygirl1843 Black Panther was a huge wakeup call that black epics could make bank, but it took a painfully long time. And a lot of us Marvel fans, myself included, did expect it to flounder. I only had hope for it when a year before it was released, I began seeing black men wearing any Black Panther merch they could get their hands on.
How did people not “imagine” Cho Chang as Asian in the books? Like it could not have been clearer. That’s on you baby, don’t need to take it out on the actress
I mean, maybe the name was unfortunate, but still pretty obvious name...
@@nessyness5447 yeah it’s definitely not a good name but the fact that it’s so stereotypical gives it away you would think
I don't even understand how people are surprised about Cho being Asian. First of all, the name, second of all, in the third book, she's introduced as being very pretty with shiny straight black hair. The actress fits the description perfectly!
I sort of imagine all characters I read as faceless, brown haired, skinny and white. Even with description saying blond and muscular or black haired and chubby. Men are always clean shaven, even the ones with facial hair. That's if I even envisage them as actual people rather than stick people. I know this is how my brain is working, and it's not the best, but if I've read that a char has a specific background or ethnicity, i would expect to see it, and not my weird feature-less humans in a dramatisation. In the fantasy books I've read, elves, goblins, orcs, dwarves all seem to look more human than they should.
Mostly cuz I was a dumb 8 year old who barely knew any Asian people when I first read the books. But also, I realised this was a me problem and am always happy (well partly ashamed) to learn a character my dumb/racist ass assumed was white is really a POC
as a half korean kid myself, i can't tell you how many times people in school told me i looked just like cho chang. I didn't, I'm just half asian
I'm half Japanese! :) I ended up with brown hair so people are less likely to say stuff to me but uhh my Asian friends got physically harassed and told they looked like the only Asian person ppl knew 🤨😒
@@salmonella3 you must've heard the occasional "you don't look asian"
@@notaspecialist4484 pretty much but then just like you said they'll make fun of my heritage right after 😒
My mom looks latino to most people so she's gotten a lot of anti-latino sentiments as well
I'm full Viet but I got numerous comments how i looked mixed, completely white and/or that i looked like Lucy Liu. I absolutely look nothing like her.
@@Fortuna123 yo both of my parents are mexican but i get mistaken as Asian or western/eastern european but never Latino :/
Its to the point where when i was younger i thought myself as white even though I spoke full spanish at home . . .
I definitely did not like the way Harry treated Cho. It is the real shame both the character and the actress playing the character cannot get treated properly.
yeah i never understood why people blamed her for outing the army when she was definitely tortured?? it wasn’t cho’s fault, it was umbridge’s fault!
@@kate2706 It wasn't Cho who outed the army anyway in the book. It was her friend she brought along.
@@kate2706 i mean, they didn't knew about the veritaserum and they all were actually tortured because of it, it was normal to be angry. The problem is they never showed them apologize after learning the truth.
Even when I was a kid the way Harry treated her made me uneasy, it made it seem like she was some kind of porcelain doll to him.
Honestly Rowling does write harry as an imperfect protagonist, but all things considered I think Cho was written as a disposable pretty thing for harry. I think it's just one example of Rowling not being overly sensitive to any issue other than cis women's rights.
Not the only Asian character. Patel twins. We gotta stop ignoring Indian people in the Asian discussion.
They're barely characterized in the books, and even THAT much was taken out of the films, and their being completely used by Harry and Ron was made into a joke rather than a character flaw by them.
I agree. They were also not treated well by Harry/Ron in the books and the films, so they're yet another example.
They are so bad written, I feel really sorry for the Indians fans
Interestingly enough, these girls are also only used actively as romantic interest. So Cho and the Patil twins biggest plot point are as failed romantic pairings. And there is nothing much measurable for them as characters outside of that.
@@TheDawnofVanlife And failed romantic parings at that: same thing with Dean Thomas. The POCs are all just expendable and compared to the superior white character. I'm surprised they didn't do that with Lavender too.
I remember years ago seeing merch that was t-shirts designed to look like the different house Quidditch team jerseys, specifically the seeker's ones. The Gryffindor one had 'Potter' on the back. The Slytherin one had 'Malfoy'. The Hufflepuff one had 'Diggory'. So it's the best known seekers from Harry's time at school, right? No. What did the Ravenclaw one have on the back of it? Freaking 'Lockhart'...
Y.I.K.E.S.
What the fuck
WTF!?!
Wait im confused is it bad??? I dont know much about Harry Potter
@@cowboyomelet9328 Lockhart was a substitute teacher in the second year, not a student.
I think he and Luna are the only Ravenclaws people know; again, Cho is sidelined.
As a Chinese woman who also speaks Korean, I remember just sitting there dumbfounded when I saw the name Cho Chang for the first time. It’s literally a Korean last name and a Chinese last name mashes together randomly. No East Asian person would ever name their kid Cho Chang. Not to mention how it sounds like Ching Chang Chong 👀👀 very sus
I just gave up and in my head it’s her last name, hyphenated. Her first name’s really Eunha and she didn’t adopt a western name, but Brits being Brits, her classmates conveniently forget that and call her by her last name only. Even though both names are on her Quidditch jersey and that should clearly indicate it’s only her surname, not her entire name.
In text subtle, everyday racism that many Asian people have faced before, making her relatable to the readers.
@@kishakataria1430 Man, Harry Potter fans are so much better at world building than the actual author
Well to be fair most of the characters have ethnically ambiguous and abnormal names.
Many of the names in HP don't come from culture. Cho Chang in my opinion is a pretty empowering name. I can see why people might think it's low tier racial stereotyping, but I think most HP fans and viewers paid no mind to that. And more so the people picking at issues within HP as a fan do.
If she was meant to be off Korean and Chinese descent I'm sure people wouldn't mind.
@@black_forest_ Your comparison actually happens all the time in alot of media outside and even inside English speaking countries.
It's silly i understand. I actually have 2 last names and one Scottish one French. I couldn't really be too bothered if that's what people referred to me by. But I know that's just me and Scottish and French don't have their identities jumbled together in media that doesn't understand the differences.
I mean shit Jackie Chan accepted a name that sports his original first name and an American first name and it's led him to much success. Despite the reason for that being out of properly marketing his identity.
@@black_forest_ or Winchester Phillips
"Harry is the main character that we identify with" is the one thing I will never get about the HP fandom. I don't think I ever identified with Harry as a kid.
I get Percy Jackson but not Harry Potter
i tried really hard to because i thought that there was some rule that u have to like the main character of a book the most lol
Same
I identified with wanting to escape an abusive home, but...Yeah, I don't think I ever genuinely, actually related to him.
@@reneedailey1696 Yeah I totally get that
The German reader of the Harry Potter audio books - Rufus Beck - even chose to read Cho Chang with the stereotypical mispronouncation of the r-sound - it is horrible to listen to and I'm dumfounded nobody saw a reason to stop that!
hii fellow german here! I didn't remember this at all so I decided to check but I can only find the audio book for the 5th book where he doesnt do it so maybe they changed it after the first book? still extremely fucked up that he ever did that ofc
@@gamergrandma8875 I think he did and maybe they even did a second recording. I have to check, if I still own the German version.
@@lorelei_lee oh yea right there w u im pretty sure we have the old versions somewhere.......I also totally believe beck would do something like this he did some choices™️ in his voice acting
@@gamergrandma8875 the third book is so cringy... my ma and I listend to it and when cho chang said something.... it was so... fremdschämen at it's best.
And it reminded me of the Jim Knopf story in China...more fremdschämen ....
@@siggilinde5623 wow respect for checking it tysm!!! what really is the worst part of it all for me is that I listened to these as a kid and don't even remember that happening like it didn't even register as smth gross and wrong to me.....really makes u confront a lot of views u grew up w🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
I am reminded of when they cast the little girl to play Rue(sp?) in the Hunger Games movie and the internet had a shitfest because she was black. People where legit out there in the open arguing against casting that character as black because they pictured Rue to be 'innocent and cute', directly implying they couldn't see an 11 year old black child as being innocent enough for them to care about. I distinctly remember people saying they wouldn't be able to care about her death scene because of Rue being cast by a black girl.
As a kid reading Harry Potter the way Cho's trauma was brushed off was something that I remember made me start legitimately hating Harry as a character. I never even read past that book because the older I got the more and more I started to feel angry and unsettled. I don't think at that time I would have seen/understood the racial undertones of that situation so I felt upset in a 'one girl to another girl' way with how Cho was being treated.
It was another case of “read the damn book again”, because Rue was very much canonically black.
@@ktgrnhig The weaponizing of white-womanhood is a heady drug, indeed.
Having read the latter two books...you didn't miss much; trust me. After book four...you're probably better off making up your own ending.
I felt the exact same way about that part as well. I remember not liking how Harry treated Cho and really getting angry because of that. I'm really disappointed because I would've really liked for Harry to grow as a character and learn that he was being unfair towards Cho and wasn't taking into conciderstion the trauma she faced after losing Sedrick, but it just never came
@@ktgrnhig I didn't know she was also canonically black :0! I'd never read the books, just saw the first movie and some random parts of the second.
Thank you so much for talking about this. As an Asian American artist and actor, I think it’s amazing that this topic is coming to light. So many Asian/Asian Americans are denied of their feelings towards racism and told to downplay them. Thanks again for talking about this, you rock! 💕
I’m Vietnamese and I’ve noticed growing up that there are literally almost no Asian actors in lead roles in popular shows, side characters, or guest appearances, etc. (the last popular show I can think of is Lost) I don’t understand why simple stuff like cashier, gas station attendant, or even prison inmate can’t be played by more Asians.
It’s gotten to the point where I’ll actually get excited and say “wow, they actually have some Asians in this!” And not just playing a foreigner or just another stereotypical asian guy/girl.
@@darkdemonqueen My guess is that it’s more prevalent in countries where Caucasian people are the majority in population. Most media centered around people of color would be appealing to a much smaller percentage of people, making it a smaller market. And if there’s anything most businesses fear, it’s making a smaller amount of profit. Thus, they’re always trying to appeal to the widest demographic they can.
@@geoffreyrichards6079 There's also the common theory of "the default is always white." The idea that, unless specifically stated that X character must be Asian/Latino/Black/etc., Hollywood will always cast a white actor. Or, often times in the case of Asian characters, a hafu: someone who's half-Asian, half-white, so that they're just white enough, while also being what many would refer to as "exotic" for their mixed looks, even while calling them that makes those people sound like a rare animal or jungle flower. See the casting of Kristin Kreuk as Chun-Li in "Street Fighter: the Legend of Chun-Li", for example.
@@Mokiefraggle So unless the white population is somehow greatly diminished or vanishes completely, I don't see this problem being solved anytime soon. Human nature is just a burden by this point.
@@geoffreyrichards6079 I feel it's more that the inherent bias that white culture is the default/norm/most appealing that needs to go away, rather than the population itself. The idea that you can just drop a white person in anywhere you want, and it works just fine because "colorblind casting" or something along those lines is the problem, as it's cutting the smaller pool of actors of other ethnicities out of a fair chance. The mentality is what needs to be changed, not the actual population.
I remember my dad telling me about this when Leung was cast. At the time I just thought "man, people are dumb!" and went on with my life because, well, I was a kid and ignorant. But this situation is so much worse than I ever realised :(
Okay, but imagine if Lavender Brown had been played by an actress of colour when the whole Ronmione drama happened. I'm not saying it's good that they replaced her! Just that maybe the books shouldn't have featured subplots where girls of colour constantly get ridiculed/turned down by our male main characters to be replaced with white girls, cos ... well.
Lavender Brown's race/appearance was ambiguous in the books, but yeah, this was kind of my thought as well. Not a flattering role. But at the same time, if there had been more POC roles in general to add variety it wouldn't have been a big deal for one of them to be ditzy and annoying.
I love your Snufkin profile pic! And yeah, it's a bit questionable that the girls that have been love interests at first were mostly POC who then have been tossed aside and replaced with white girls... god forbid there would be a mixed couple in the series
But this just underlines the issue with representation even more. It's true that lavender was specifically written as an annoying, vapid character who was supposed to function as a foil for Hermione to emphasize Hermione's positive traits. It wouldn't have necessarily been that problematic to cast a black girl in this role if there had been other fleshed out black characters. This is only an issue if you write a book that insinuates that *all of Wizarding Britain* only produced two black children Harry's age.
@@RisingSunfish Lavender Brown was cast as Black every movie until the movie where Ron and she kiss though…
@@arianna5270 Right, my point was that Lavender in HBP is written to be the Annoying (Temporary) Girlfriend to contrast Hermione, whom the audience is supposed to root for as a romantic partner for Ron. Lavender didn't have much, if any, presence in the previous movies (did she even have lines? I remember Seamus and Dean and the Patil twins getting speaking lines but I can't recall Lavender, but it's been a while since I've seen some of these movies), so all but the most sharp-eyed viewers would assume this was her first appearance, and it would have been pretty egregious to have two movies in a row feature a POC "fake-out" love interest to a male lead who turned out to be flighty and unreliable in contrast to the level-headed white endgame love interests. Does that make sense?
A creator who's transphobic, a director who was willing to helm ableist propaganda for Autism $peaks (dammit Alfonso Cuaron) and racism from fans. This franchise really attracts the worst people.
I’m glad you brought up how Harry compares Cho to Ginny within the text, it does speak to how much BIPOC are held to higher standards compared to their white counterparts, and it also kind of speaks to how JKR glorifies the “not like other girls” trope to the point where it’s completely detrimental to women in general
Man imagine if you had a breakdown over your dead boyfriend and your love interest is just like "oh lol this one is too much work, they cry. The other person I'm into doesn't cry"
I'll say it. Cho was infinitely more interesting than Ginny. I remember rooting for her and being disappointed (though not surprised) when Ginny won out. :/
@@thelovelybunny9012 Harry was one hell of a self-centered kid.
Cho was sobbing in the tea shop and all he could think was "how do I get out" instead of even trying to comfort her a tiny little bit.
@@MissKitae yeah looking back on it, i didnt really like who harry was in that book. Idk he was kinda a bad person for a bit from what i remember🤔 not very gryffindor tbh
@@demitreecandy3173 It's little wonder that, even when I was blind to the majority of these issues back in the day, that book was just the _worst._
As a black man I very much agree that the attacks Trans people face is comparable to what we( people of color ) deal with. What can be done to one group can easily be done to the next ,and as people from those marginalized groups ,we have to speak up for each other. That's why I'm glad to have our usual fun geeky topics take a break for one like this.Your ability to speak on these topics wit awareness and knowledge (you've even taught me some things) is why I subscribed and enjoy your channel 💪🏾.
Sorry for making you read my rambling lol ✌🏾❤️
Solidarity!
it's also similar to what we muslims deal with, especially in European countries where we are the largest visible minorities. Racists love to hide behind a "religious criticism" excuse, while they very well know that their "criticism" has very much a racial flavour whenever they talk about the way we look, our skin tones, our intelligence and our "biology" etc.
Solidarity, my dude. I don't remember who told me, but the phrase "oppressors all have the same playbook, they just go by different names" has always stuck with me.
Sure, our struggles in our marginalized identities have their nuances, but we can all learn from each other and dismantle the power structures that keep us down as a team. Trans folks (like myself), POC, people with disabilities, people who identify as women, and all other marginalized groups can benefit from comparing notes and pulling parallels in history.
These people will hate on anyone they feel it socially acceptable to hate on. It's hate looking for a target.
@@christopherl1675 that's a great way to put that, gonna have to remember that one. It's so true as well. To the oppressed, we can make all the distinctions we recognise. But to the oppressors, we're all just "that type of other that I don't like".
I remember a recent character poll on a Harry Potter group: The people coded as Nazis in the books were far more popular than the POCs from the books, and a lot of people just hated Cho "She's annoying".
People focus on the stereotypical name, but it doesn't stop there: Rowling herself really seems to hate the character. She gets insulted and dismissed both in the books and outside the books. Harry puts his abusers on pedastals and it's called maturity. Harry condemns his girlfriend for her loyalty to her friend, and Harry is implied to have made the right decision. The racism doesnt' stop at the name, it's put into the books, into her interviews (Cho is frequently the butt of jokes and insults) and in the fandom (often being villainized)
The fact that Katie Leung had to suffer for it is horrifying, but sadly expected given not only how the character is treated but also how the internet fandoms work in permitting racism (Kelly Marie Tran in Star Wars is the most dramatic example)
OMG! Yes!!! I never got the Cho hate in the fandom. Harry was annoyed by actions that would have been seen as good character traits in others. One of those being loyalty to her friend. The other being her actual feelings for Cedric and visible pain and conflict over his death. Everything about her said "good person" but the coding in the text through Harry's eyes (which is where fans are going to have the most sympathy) is both annoying and problematic. And JKR chooses to write Cho as a problem for Harry. They could have easily not worked out romantically and still avoided painting Cho as some problematic girl Harry was better off never knowing.
What about the fact they both have been through grief, haven't they? It's mentioned that Harry had nightmares following Cedric's death, not to mention he also had lost his parents, if that were a different character they would bond and maybe form a relationship helping each other to get through the grief.
And it kinda does, in the Order of the phoenix when Ginny talks with Harry about his fear of being possessed, then he apologizes and agrees that he didn't thought about what Ginny had to go through.
@@witzitzilin And yet he's willing to see Ginny's trauma but not Cho's.
@@Tareltonlives Well its because how much did he actually know Cho other than her appearance and just general surface level. He knew Ginny pretty well (Lets not talk about the fact he constantly sees the weasleys like siblings then is perfectly ok dating the sister who is a carbon copy of his own mother)
Cho’s friend was basically disfigured permanently, but Cho is the bad guy for sticking up for her in her time of need?
The guy that she was dating dies, and now she’s on a date with the one guy who saw him die, also in danger, and she’s not allowed to want closure or have mixed feelings?
The treatment of Katie Leung at the hands of both online trolls *and* Warner Bros is deplorable! WB choosing optics over decency is sadly unsurprising, but still disgusting.
Yeah
I think there's a portion of the discussion to be had about the transition from books to film. This got REALLY pointed in The Hunger Games where a whole bunch of readers came forward yelling about how "Rue isn't black". Which she IS in the books. But because you're getting the story through Katniss, it's not stated with any particular emphasis; Katniss doesn't care. When we first meet her, Katniss notes that Rue's skin is dark. Maybe it comes up again in passing, during all the time spent with her. Easy to skip over, for the right reader, like a hard to pronounce name in a Russian novel. Cho Chang is never really described in the books, as Asian or otherwise. I think maybe there's something about black hair. Once. Easy to overlook the natural assumption of her name and picture her caucasian, then get really indignant when the movie comes out. Neil Gaiman went into this when talking about his novel Ananzi Boys, where the majority of the main cast is Black, but he received a significant response from readers who assumed it was about a bunch of white people, and were upbraiding him on different points related to that.
But her name is literally "Cho Chang"? Unless some kid was living under a rock and was really unfamiliar with Asian names, there's practically no way that character can be seen as anything but Asian. I think it's ok to acknowledge mistakes borne of ignorance, but to get mad at a blatantly Asian character for not conforming to an uninformed headcanon is just fan entitlement of the worst kind.
3:34 THANK YOU. As an Asian sometimes I feel like racism towards Asians is so...normalized? Especially nowadays
I agree, while I’m Latina and not Asian, I always noticed that even the most open minded people around me would make fun of Asian stereotypes and at school some students asked a lot of rude questions to the only Asian student in our class, and any time someone pointed it out, they got called too sensitive.
It definitely is! In that kind of way, the current pandemic has been beneficial because it's allowed us to focus more on asian-targeted racism. A lot of racist comments can fly under the radar because they're not talked about enough for many to realize it's racist at all! It would be fantastic to start focusing more on different target groups of racism.
@@booklover8081 They were all black and hispanic I'm guessing.
@@quesocoatl21 why would you assume their black?
@@cloudyheart5148 Because I've seen the evidence and the videos of the assailants.
One thing I’d like to add about the treatment of the character of Cho in the fifth film is that they deliberately cut out her best friend Marina who was written to betray Dumbledore’s Army to Umbridge. Rowling even gave this white character a reason (it was because Marina’s mother worked for the Ministry) for snitching so that readers would feel some sympathy towards her. However, in the films they change the person who betrayed Dumbledore’s Army to the ONE Asian person in it. You guessed it, Cho Chang was the student who betrayed them to Umbridge. And did they provide a good reason for it like Marina had? No, all the audience saw was that she had betrayed them because she was cowardly and she no longer deserved to be a part of it, let alone the protagonist’s love interest. The movie literally made the audience turn against this Asian character, which likely contributed to the racism which existed already against Katie herself.
*Her name was Marietta, apologies
You do know in the movie they say it was because Cho was drugged by Umbridge with Truth potion that made her confess.
The movies had Cho Cho snitch because of truth serum. But it was a throw in line from snape that I guess most people forget about. Plus she never had a moment with Harry that addressed it or gave them closure, it’s just implied they break up
It's typical that the male's female love interest gets hate. Generally, all women get hated on by the "fandom" at least at some point. Make them a person of colour and the hate gets multiplied to infinity.
It's really disgusting and young actors should especially be shielded by the production team.
Having the author, director or whoever is seen in high regard speak out against the bigotry would could have such a massive inpact
Just wanted to write this. Back then, even before the casting was released, a lot of people were ready to jump on the hate wagon just because she was going to be Harry Potter's love interest.
Add to that that the character was Asian, and they'd should have known this was going to be a shit show.
The production teams (or union or director or whoever) should have been ready to protect their actors from the get go, realizing how much hate would come her way, just from being Harry Potter's love interest, especially since these were teenage actors.
I'm most of all mad this wasn't taken seriously even before casting happened, and they didn't create some sort of precaution (or at least took her seriously, wtf was that all about?).
No matter what Asian actress would've been cast, they probably would've gotten the same hate Katie Leung got. I really blame this on the adults in this situation.
Excellent point. It's both racism and hatred of a fan favorite characters' couple (women characters in general get this). After Rowling discarded Cho, Ginny became the most hated. Pansy is hated not because she's a horrible person, but because she's Draco's girlfriend. Etc
It always bothered me as a kid that when Cho broke up with Harry she changed from being portrayed as a kind and determined girl to a snarky and stuck-up bitch- it was like how good of a person she was depended on how Harry felt about her, which even as a young kid I thought was some gross writing for a female character, never mind one of the only characters of color.
U cant even argue its from Harry’s perspective cause the books are in 3rd person
I felt this so hard omg, I was like why does she HAVE to suddenly be this jealous bitch with Ginny now? Why? Fucking hell.
ah yes, Cho Chang, the only HP character I was allowed to go as for Halloween. [edit] I'm not saying anyone was mean to me, it was just that it seemed to be unfathomable that I could be literally any other HP character. It was just assumed that's who I was. In people's minds I "couldn't be" any other character. Not that I actually wasn't allowed to be any other character.
Lordy, I can only imagine the harassment that you would've faced had you dared to dress as anyone else! Honestly, people should be able to dress as anyone they want to be as long as it's respectful.
Oh my god...I had a young Singaporean friend in Australia who loved to dress up as Harry Potter. I can't imagine the reaction he'd have if Potter fans told him he couldn't do that. He loved crafting his own wands. Once I made him a 3D print of that Harry's wand.
That kinda reminds me of the to all the boys I've loved before book. But it must very sad, people just think whatever they want to think without like overthinking it and understanding that everybody is allowed to dress up as they want
oh yes, my friends had this disney princess thing for a year book and it was just assumed I was Mulan. I mean I love Mulan and think she is the best protagonist in disney movies but still.. wtf
Re-reading Harry Potter last year made me realise just how little Cho Chang was in it, and how she and Harry basically weren't a couple at all. Made me think of a poem about her l read once: "You treat me like l'm Subhuman. A Subplot." And speaking of the few non-pink people in HP: I found it a bit weird that one of the black people's only crush is another black person. I guess you get attracted to people like yourself, but l think it smacks of other places like Doctor Who where two black companions got married. In all of your characters, why those two, other than the fact that they share a skin colour, a bizarrely shallow reason?
@Sigurd Shvedov Well, the cream l use is usually milky white, and l think my own colour is more pink than white as well. It's mostly meant jokingly. It came from a conversation l had with a friend who objects to being Caucasian, because he's not from Caucasus. I then said l don't like the word white about myself, because l don't look like a glass of milk. (The talks l fill my days with, l swear.)
It's this normalisation of racial bias when it comes to lookin for a partner. I encounter this especially in the gay community.... you have no idea how many guys actually told me, "I am looking for someone who looks like me!"
@Sigurd Shvedov I litterally told them that they took the phrase "go f**ck yourself" way too litteral 😅😂 they didnt take it too well to say the least 😂
@Sigurd Shvedov thanks but even before lockdown, I stopped going to Gay bars or even looking for a bf etc because of the vast amount of negative experiences. I never encountered violence in the 10 years in my local gay community but more of bullying (like ppl talking behind my back), fat phobia (even though I am not that overweight), racism and of course gas lighting whenever I've tried to talk bout my experiences. So yeah, I feel much better without that!
Hello black person here black couples are fine! (It's ok if the only two black people get together)As long as their healthy and have chemistry.
This makes me wonder how much of the hatred of Smallville's version of Lana Lang was due to people not wanting to see Superman paired with a woman of Chinese descent. The things said about Cho and Lana often tended to be similar, namely being "whiny". While the actress, Kristin Kreuk, didn't suffer any abuse or harassment as far as I can tell, I do recall some people being rather... enthusiastic about her possibly being involved in human trafficking when news of Alison Mack doing that broke even after one of the victims pointed out that Kreuk had nothing to do with NXIVM's actions.
"Whiny" is also just a term often applied to female characters, especially love interests. I have seen that applied to black and white female characters as well.
Also in Smallville Kreuk (who is 1/4 Chinese) played a white character. Her parents were white in the show. They didn't really bring up her Chinese ancestry at all.
I should also note Lana Lang is white in the comics. The name "Lang" is English in origin, from an Old English word meaning "tall". It's not an Asian name.
@@MRuby-qb9bd Thanks for proving Jessie's point.
@@EMSpdx Right, she was a mostly white actress (often read as white by viewers), playing a white character, who was canonically white. So it makes sense that she didn't have a lot of racially based harassment.
I never knew there was fan hate against Kreuk. But I've seen a few online interviews where many of the lead actors did not really have a great time on that show.
I’d still say that “Outrage that Rue is black” from the Hunger Games fandom has to rank pretty high up there as well.
And curiously, they got nuthin' to say about the change in character description from the _book_ to what we _see_ on-screen with the lead. Funny that...
@@christopherb501 right??? likeee i remember NOTICING katniss not being olive skinned and visibly poverty stricken like in the book but i never thought twice about Rues casting...
@@byrnetdown6076 I'm not the right person to ask about that as I haven't actually read the books (seen all the movies); just going by hearsay on this point.
@@christopherb501 Katniss is definitely described as being olive-skinned and even mentioned that you wouldn't realize she and Prim are sisters. The directors also talked about how they made Jennifer LAwrence go tanning or take skin darkening pills although it's not that noticeable.
I'm not sure what part of the internet you are on, but on my side people complained about Katniss not looking right, and no one complained about Rue being black.... Personally I don't see people as "green eyes, brown hair" so I didn't even reflect on Katniss looking different until someone pointed it out. I just wanted a good actress to bring out the correct feeling in the character, and Jennifer did a great job :) Rue's actress was good too.
I'm really surprissed that the fans very rarely bring up the fact that Harry treated Cho HORRIBLY!
I mean when he complained that she was crying all the time I was like "Her former BF was murdered you douchebag! People react to trauma in different ways!"
Now, tbf I think that Cho was not emotionally ready to start a new relationship so I think the fact that she and Harry didnt continue was for the better but still there could have been a page or two were she and Harry have a talk and decide to stop datting and just remain friends, but the way the story treated it was just wrong
Exactly! And to be fair I remember thinking Harry also wasn't ready for a relationship - he was just too immature, was always being described as awkward and overwhelmed around Cho, not knowing what to say, and didn't seem to have any feelings for her beyond just 'butterflies in the stomach'. They never even had an extended conversation or got to know each other... which is fine since that's realistic for young teenagers - but then the way he just cuts her off and then continues to look down on her and dismiss her afterwards, while the narrative fades her into the background.. and we as the audience are supposed to relate to Harry in this. I remember being so put off by that, and it was one of the things that made my interest in the series begin to tail off.
“Boyfriend” You mean the guy she literally knew for two weeks?!? Girl bye!
Not a hard topic, Jessie. A necessary one. We stand together or we fall apart.
I know Rowling isn't the topic of conversation specifically here, but her unpacked racism is so very apparent in those books, and Cho is clear tokenism, like she checked off the "single, stated Person of Colour" box and called it a day until all her PR retconning began.
Tokenism sucks for a number of reasons, but the way it puts the pressure of representation on a single character--and, by extension, the person playing that character--sets them up for huge racist backlash in addition to the weight of representing an entire demographic of people. The fact that no one took Katie Leung's distress seriously just goes to show the lack of insight under the more obvious lack of compassion.
Katie Leung is such an interesting person. I highly recommend her interview on James and Oliver's "Normal Not Normal" podcast. She mentions how she felt very protective of Evanna Lynch when she joined the cast because Katie knew how hard it can be. That kindness and compassion is the sign of a good hearted person.
I Heard about that and it’s so kind that Katie is such a warm and caring person.
Let's talk about the case of Lavender Brown- not that it isn't weird to recast a white actress when her previous actress was black, but that they gave a child (Rupert Grint, no it isn't his fault it happened) a hand in it. He was given a choice of actresses, and who he was attracted to was given priority, and honestly wtf. I agree it was reacting to the actor as replaceable, and that's an angle we have to look at, but that particular recasting is several layers of messed up and we shouldn't gloss over the other parts about it. Adults giving that kind of power and putting that kind of pressure on a child has so many layers to pick through. We need to at least mention how disgusting that is.
Mostly what annoyed me about Discovery's casting a black lead was how hard the marketing was patting themselves on the back for doing it. Casting BIPOC people in lead roles is literally the least that a studio that wants to be progressive can be doing. They should not have been making such a big deal out of how awesome they were for treating black people like they treat white people.
@@adamrenshaw8653 I can't stand her in that show and it has nothing to do with the performance. More importantly, I went into Discovery wanting to like her, I wanted another really well written character like Sisko and it's just not there.
You have to do better than just casting minorities. You also have to put the effort into writing them well. It doesn't matter what part you write them in, hero, villain, whatever but it has to be done well.
While it is the least a studio can do, the marketing for Disco didn’t do anything that they hadn’t done before when Sisko was cast or when Janeway was cast. One can argue that a Star Trek show that is looked to for diversity openly celebrating diversity and casting lead roles should be a good thing for them to do because it normalizes that casting BIPOC people is something they are proud of doing despite any backlash they will inevitably get. Sisko was hated on for years, so was Janeway, and now Burnham deals with the same thing. It took only in recent years, decades since their inception, that Sisko and Janeway have become just as appreciated as the white male leads of other Trek shows, I suspect Burnham will be dealing with the same trajectory. She’s the lead and she’s the hero and she’s flawed but also seeking redemption and there’s always been a double standard when it comes to judging Black female characters, even when people don’t mean to fall into that bias.
I find it very weird in general when people hate on actors (people they don't know) because of their roles. People can be such losers sometimes.
Exactly! Like, I'm sorry, do you think the actors had much of a choice in what their characters were like and how they were written? Not really that much! It's just pointless to blame the actor for the character they're portraying. Thats like blaming every black actor in a stereotypical horror movie for being the one to die first!
What's sad is this 16 year old girl should have been over the moon being in one of the biggest franchises of all time and before she even got on set, she had be exposed to being trashed online. Like this is a child. Hating Cho the character, for whatever childish reasons, should not have extended to talking trash about a young girl who is a real person.
If the person is a sh*tbag themselves _and_ they directed and produced the movie which _clearly_ led to a drop in quality, _then_ I could get it. As is, it's straight-up racism and disrespect to workers, an extension of the Karen in all of us.
Damn, I didn't even know that fact about the Lavender Brown recasting. That's messed up. Goes to show JKR has only ever been concerned with the appearance of wokeness.
I only ever found about it when I happened to stumble on her wiki character page
To be fair, I read that it was the producers who decided to make Lavender a person of color, based solely on the fact that her last name was Brown. She was never described in the first books, so they decided to make her black. JKR protested this because she knew that she intended to make Lavender an unsympathetic character, so fans would think Ron was justified in dumping her for Hermione. At least, I think that's why; I can't remember if the article I read said that outright.
I also believe that the Rowling also demanded multiple recastings of Pansy Parkinson because Pansy represented "all the girls who bullied (JKR) in school", so Rowling didn't want an actress that was too engaging playing. There's always been a streak of small-minded spitefulness in J. K. Rowling.
JK Rowling doesn't even do the casting😑😑😑
@@Dattebayo04 yes and no.
Why the heck would anyone harass an Asian actress for being cast as CHO CHANG?! The ethnicity is kinda in the name...duh-doy!! Now I have to wonder what woulda happened if they'd cast a Galatea type girl.....
As for K.M. Tran & S. Martin-Green, their characters were poorly realized IMHO, but the actors themselves, they did what they could with what they had.
I think Sonequa did a fantastic job! A great actress who performed the role v.well!
Still my least favourite character on Discovery, buts that's more a comment on how good everyone else was 😊
Cho Chang is actually two surnames from different cultures. Just generally that whole character was not super great. Asian people deserve wy better.
The fact that when you hear the name “cho chang” makes someone immediately think of an asian person bothers me. If someone were to say “his name was Jamal Jackson! Obviously he’s black!” Is just as offensive imho.
@@darkdemonqueen Fair enough. Just outta curiosity, where do U think the name, Dzencelowcz (my name), came from?
@@darkdemonqueen I understand that completely but also cho Chang are names from Asian cultures so I understand why someone would assume a person with that name would be Asian
Speaking of Asians, I didn't like how they treated the Patil sisters in the movie. Especially the goblet of fire, like what did they make them wear....could've been so much better
The Patils were underdeveloped in the books, but the moments they had from the books were all cut. Parvati had all these interesting character moments: her interest in divination, sticking up for Harry and Neville, talking to Ginny and Hermione.
And yeah, their dresses were pretty terrible, and not even accurate to the books. Speaking of Goblet of Fire I don't remember Harry and Ron even apologizing to them in either the books or films. It's interesting that all the POC characters are the "disposable" love interests for our heroes.
I want to know what Padma was doing in the Gryffindor common room. Padma is a Ravenclaw. Pavarti told Harry she’d ask Padma to go to the ball with Ron, Padma wasn’t constantly at Pavarti’s side. Pavarti was practically attached to Lavender ....god the films boil my blood.
@@Laladust I know, right? Padma got changed to a Gryffindor and Parvati's alter ego! They basically copied the Weasley twins!
@@Tareltonlives Even Fred and George aren't carbon copies of each other. They act like twins, but still have agency. The film Patil Twins are more like frightening clones or the twins from The Shining, "Hiya Harry, Hiya Harry, Hiya Harry".
@@Laladust They aren't? Could've fooled me. They're pretty interchangable and don't have much in the way of personalities.
A teen magazine I used to subscribe to commented on the racism around Cho Chang, they made a full page about it and I remember how different it was to even see a magazine try and call out fans for their bad behavior. I guess that’s the only reason why I still remember it.
I think people of any races in media aren't exempt from hardships or bad endings, the issue lies with the lack of diversity. Cho Chang was one of the only people of colour in Hogwarts (unrealistic af for the UK population but ok)
Harry was a flawed character who was unable to deal with Cho Chang's emotions, he didn't know what to do and he was intimidated by it. Fair enough, let him cast Cho Chang aside, since things like this happen in real life, but at least make your casting diverse enough that we can see other characters of colour in better, more respectable roles.
It is not unrealistic. In 90s' UK population was not as racially mixed. Also mind that wizarding community is a very secluded community so they may have different structure
I remember that something similar happened when the first Hunger Games came out. Apparently, the author described character's as "dark skinned" was not enough to stop racist fans freaking out with the casting.
Racists would be mad if they cast a black lead in an MLK biopic.
They probably interpreted "dark skin" to mean "darker than the average caucasian". What else could the author possibly mean?/sarc
Apparently Katniss Everdeen is Native American or at least Native American-coded... smh
@@pewp1605 oop how?
Please dont tell me its the archery lmaooo
@@nicomoist5336 in the book she’s described has having tan skin and long black hair in a braid 😳 and unfortunately the archery thing might also be another thing 💀💀
side note: she was the VERY FIRST person who was cast of the HP franchise which publicly pointed that the author JK was calling the line "oh look, but I'm inclusive" to promove hate. She stooded for us when no one yet did.
My boyfriend is first Gen from Chinese immigrant parents and the topic of “Cho Chang” was a huge topic of discussion when pointing out the racism of Harry Potter. This also ties into the racism POC experience in Hollywood. It’s interesting because a lot of racism targeted towards Asian Americans goes unnoticed. It’s something I unfortunately too have hardly noticed until having these discussions with my boyfriend. I also made a point after playing “the last of us 2” about how Asian American cis men in particular are usually killed off in media. (I say this because the game does a good job with a Trans Man of Asian decent, which is great being apart of the trans community, my argument still stands) it’s not all the time but I’m still able to count how many times we see an Asian Cis male be killed on screen. And compare that to the number of cis Asian male characters there are in media in GENERAL. I can also completely admit it is my bias as well based on the media I have seen. But it still was enough for me to recognize it. This says nothing about the huge discrimination Asian Women face as well and the stereotyping/over sexualization.
Anyways wonderful video and great job covering this subject that is extremely important and deserves to be talked about and pointed out.
There are two types of racists: the ones who can't imagine that a character named Cho Chang isn't ''obviously'' white, and the ones who name their character Cho Chang bc they know otherwise no one will picture her being asian/chinese (even tho Cho is a korean last name oml)
This reminds me of an interview with Tiya Sircar, the actress who voices Sabine in Star Wars Rebels, where she says that when she got the role, the producer took her aside and told her something like "before you get into this, you need to know that there will be backlash against your character, all we can do is push through and prove them wrong"
Like, that's terrible, for both the actor and the writers to know people will hate their character even before a single episode has aired, just because of their gender and ethnicity.
But prove them wrong they did! Sabine is a great character and it's heartwarming to see the hype about her possible live-action debut, I hope Tiya gets to play her!
Honesty I see her as a stereotypical mandalorian action girl
She is an artist as well but meh
I like her conceptually, however
Its been a while since I’ve read the books but I remember not liking how they treated and framed Cho Chang’s character. She was really affected by cedric’s death and cried abt it a lot but Harry kept on being annoyed by it bc he just wanted to make out w her. Like someone she really cared about was brutally murdered and you saw it happen-why don’t you have any sympathy for her?? Why is she being framed as annoying and a cry baby while she has good reason to cry??
I think Cho Chang's character got the short end of Harry Potter having way too many characters. I thought the role in the books was fine enough, but was never really expanded on. I think Dean Thomas would have fallen into this same obscurity if he didn't play a minor role in the last book. The movies did Cho Chang real dirty. She was a basic throw away character vs being one of the most powerful Ravenclaws in the series.
What really bugs me about the whole "Heimdall can't be black" rhetoric is that it actively ignores the actual facts. Not the way one might think, either. See, the vikings went all over the known world at the time - including down to the Mediterranean, which was, as a matter of fact, full of people of all colors (though not many East Asians, apart from the occasional Silk Road merchant passing by). And a lot of those vikings stayed long enough to get married. Add to this that the old Norse word for "black" technically meant "blue", and then look at all the vikings with names that had "Blue" in it as a descriptor of their features...
...which means that in fact, there were probably quite a few black vikings. And brown vikings. Claiming otherwise is ignoring actual historical facts. But then, it's still super-difficult to get some people to admit all those Norse women buried the exact same way as Norse warrior men were *also* warriors.
I’ve think I heard that Heimdall had the epithet of ‘something pale’ (original Norse writings) so I’m guessing that’s the reason behind ‘Heimdall can’t be black.’ However, I feel like since it’s a different adaption with some changes in the movie adaption, portraying Heimdall as black isn’t a bad thing. After all what you said, Vikings comes from a diverse spread of backgrounds
@@fantasyshadows3207 Actually, it's because the character of Heimdall is white in the comics that the whole "Heimdall can't be black" thing exists. On that note - the mythology of the land is usually resembles the people who live there, and since that would have been a majority white population, the characters in said mythology would also be white. Therefore, said character should perhaps be portrayed by a white guy as well, regardless of the adaptation.
Besides, they weren't even adapting Norse mythology, they were adapting the Marvel mythos, in which Heimdall is white
@@UndeadBug okay
Wouldn't "black" in names refer to *hair* colour though?
I was in early teens when the first books came out and started reading them around the release of the 3rd. I live in Poland so a very non diverse country therefore as an ignorant kid, I imagined all the character as white... all the people I ever saw during daily life then were white, so that’s what I knew.
I didn’t think about which cultures have what names bc English names weren’t in my language either.
The first film were released in Poland after 4th book so when I saw some characters as people of color I was surprised for a sec, but then facepalmed my forehead and went well of course they are! What did you expect?! UK is much more diverse so it’s much more common to see people of color there. I was embarrassed that I missed that obvious fact and tried my best to imagine them as intended from them on.
It never even occurred to me to be angry at an actor for being not what I expected 😓.
Ugh, I'm so sorry that you experience so much transphobia. :( I just stumbled on this video today and thought that it's super cool that you're talking about this. I hated all the "token" characters that JKR added and when I reread the books as an adult, I realize just how racist, misogynistic, and homophobic/transphobic they are.
That's horrible! I was unaware she was being treated like that. I liked her character in Harry Potter.
Lots of Asians in public spotlight get harassed but it doesn’t show up on anyone’s radar because no one really cares when Asians are discriminated against.
@@darkdemonqueen Yes, unfortunately. I worked with a Chinese girl in my last job. She was made fun of behind her back and there were racist comments made. Not to her, but to me cause I was her friend. She knew I had her back.
@@darkdemonqueen yeah, focus on racism issues typically ends up looking at the problems black people face. Of course, that's not to say that racism against black people shouldn't be talked about! It's just that we often let it push other forms of racism aside. I only just started learning more about Asian-targeted racism due to the coronavirus and my vietnamese boyfriend (who I ironically started dating during the pandemic.) There's a lot more to racism than black and white. If anything, im glad the virus at least promotes more thinking about this kind of thing!
She had a character? She was someone Harry crushed on and then in GoF he dumped her 'cause...
It's weird looking back and realizing that my childhood hero dumped a girl because she cried too much over her murdered boyfriend. Well how dare she.
I was thinking about this. Has no one thought its weird that several black actors were in the run for the role of James Bond and all of a sudden theyre not?
Why? What happened?
@@GreetingsFromBlackwoodFarm There was a lot of backlash for making the next James Bond non-white, even though James Bond is just a codename without any relation to race.
@@Liberalshinigami I wouldn’t mind if a black actor played Bond at all but I think the “it’s just a codename” theory is not true as Bond’s wife who died in ohmss (1969) is mentioned in several other bond films with different actors playing Bond such as Moore’s for your eyes only (1981) and Dalton’s License to kill (1989). But as there have been many different actors portraying Bond (who look very different and are different ages as well) then why couldn’t a black man be Bond? I see no issue there.
@@Jessi-nd1yq because at that point they're just making a white character black which doesn't actually help black people? or at least from what I've observed it's better to write a black person than it is to write a white man and then hire someone whose black? that's why so many people hate casting like in Hamilton where they all play white men but they're all visibly POC
@byrnet down... I disagree as a black person, because of you are writing a character specifically to be black then there is always going to be that intrinsic element of race. Why can’t we have stories with POC characters running around on rooftops without having to think of race the same as white characters do? By making James Bond black it wouldn’t erase the struggles of racism, but it would allow a fun version of a fantasy blockbuster world that for once wasn’t through the eyes of a cis white person (often men I might add)
I've been bullied by the same kid and his varring friendgroup from age 6 to 16 and had the rector of my school gaslighting me, telling me "it takes two people to start a fight". That was the worst thing a teacher ever told me and I'm still upset 10 years later. I can't imagine how much worse Katie Leung must have felt when she was bullied by so many more people and multiple adults just told her that this was nothing.
She was also the one who "betrayed" the D.A but it wasn't of her own accord, I don't remember if it was ever overtly pointed out in the book but the tea Umbridge kept pushing had Veriata Serum in it. Just the way it was described and the bad gut feeling Harry had was enough for me to pick up on it but I can't quite remember if it was explicitly said. But then Umbridge was underhanded with a lot of her methods and it's often considered rude to refuse tea so maybe Cho drank some and spilled the beans because Verita Serum's whole purpose is to compel you to tell the truth. I think Harry was even mad at her after the fact so basically he victim blames someone who was drugged.
Which is a really shitty change. In the book, Cho is rightfully upset that her friend was hurt when she turned on the DA. Hermione (who is treated as in the right) tricked the entire DA into signing a magical contract that would result in boils across their face spelling Sneak if they betrayed the DA.
@@Stargazer_Ley I forgot about that. And that makes it worse because even if she was upset, I feel like she understood the importance of keeping it a secret and is thus labled a traitor for trusting the wrong person. I feel like one meeting of the D.A. should have covered bases on how to deal with Umbridge I.E. don't eat or drink anything she offers, or how to identify if something has been spiked, keep the interactions as minimal as possible. Of course she couldn't have anticipated what happened.
I really feel bad for the Harry Potter fandom right now. You guys are so passionate and it must be awful to have to deal with this. And it isn't just the awful abuse this poor actress suffered, but having to reckon with the racist connotations within the Harry Potter literature.
I remember being laughed at for not liking Cho Chang, for being too sensitive and for being "obnoxious" because I wasn't satisfied with the asian representation in Harry Potter, so this video really help legitimize the feelings I had as a kid, thanks.
Thank you for talking about this! I find it a bit frustrating that many people outside the Asian community refuse to acknowledge that discrimination against Asians and Asian Americans does exist in the entertainment industry. Sure, there are more casting of Asian and Asian Americans now than before, but most of their roles are either secondary roles or roles that further enforce the stereotypes. I'd like to see Asians and Asian Americans being casted in more diverse roles to convey that we are not any different from everyone else.
So so true!
Especially right now with all the attacks on Asian Americans right now this was the right time to talk about it. But what happened to Katies was awful. They should have protected her more. She was so young. The sad thing with her is just they want people to look like them. So they get offended when a character is non-white. It isn't the same thing but Tessa Thompson as Valkyrie caused some stir. Since she wasn't the usual blond Valkyrie. But damn she was fantastic and wonderful. I just don't understand who people are like that. I am so glad I recently followed and look forward to all the discussions.
Katie Leung was one of my earliest celebrity crushes in retrospect and I've always thought she's amazing ❤️
Got any _dignified_ roles to recommend?
It's honestly disheartening that you have to qualify every point you're trying to make with twice as much padding to accommodate fragile people who want to make every criticism a personal condemnation.
It's to the point that it gets distracting from the point you are trying to hit home.
That is the point of the whole victim mentality. You dont need to have arguments if you feel oppressed enough
I'll confess, at first I was annoyed by all the qualifying that Jessie has to include in her video essays on more controversial subjects, but this video specifically really made me realize how hard it must be to be a trans woman writing in science fiction fandom, which tends to be populated by the worst kinds of entitled men. Thanks for all you do, Jessie.
Cho Chang is also greatly stereotyped. It’s like mish-mashing all of East Asia together through a rscist lens, and JKR thinks that only East Asia and South Asia exists...
It’s really disappointing “representation” as an Asian...
The treatment of Cho (and the Patil twins) is definitely worth critical analysis. And this harassment of actors is disgusting.
Young actors need a PR agent or guardians who can shield them from online hate.
Supposedly they do!
@@EMSpdx There's no guarantee it works for all of them. Remember when the actor who played Morgan Stark responded to the attention she got after Endgame? It's scary that kids that young have access to the Net.
@@solarydays I have a cousin who's an actor in America. So I do worry about how she's treated over there.
The only way that'd work is if there wasn't so much money on the line... in which case there'd simply be no young actors at all.
Children/ young adults shouldn't have anything to do with Hollywood. It is full of paedophiles and perverts - there is evidence from way back in the 1930s with Shirley Temple to Corey Feldman etc
I love the Harry Potter series. However, I really do feel that the character of Cho Chang deserved better. I personally would have loved to know more about her in the books. Also, considering the fact that JKR put so much thought and effort into naming her characters (i.e. flower names such as Lily, Petunia, Narcissa, and the Black family being named after stars such as Bellatrix, and even goddess names such as Minerva), it is a bit troubling that her most prominent East Asian character was given such a stereotypical name. I wonder why that was. We can assume, but I bet only Rowling herself knows why she picked that name. I personally think she could have done better, but that is just my opinion. It's tragic that the actress who portrayed Cho got this racist backlash. Society sucks sometimes. I hope she is okay.
Hello Jess, I just wanted to say thank u for bringing up this topic. As an asian girl myself, I really respect you educating others about this matter. I myself had to deal with racial slurs and "positive" stereotypes when surfing through the internet and speaking to foreign people through games and such. I love your videos, keep making them :)
The actress not maaking noice is understanderble, as actress not only coming from hongkong but being asial, her career is way more fragile.And she, was a teenager dammit. And agents of shiel shows how hard asian american have it, as positiv example, but still that shouldnt be rare..
An anyone even remotely familiarwith norse culture, marvel isnt representive or loyal to norse culture, at least most of the time.
Isn't Katie Leung from Motherwell?
@LUNARIS British Asian i think she goes by , but yeah
As someone who follows the Norse pantheon, I don't care one whit that Heimdall is played by a Black man. Idris Elba is awesome and the Marvel take on Norse mythology is shaky at best. Obviously they're not going for historical accuracy, just entertainment. Some people will get angry about anything. 🙄
@@erinhaury5773 That too, how can youdismiss idris elba, he is idris elba :D
@LUNARIS The end of the original comment talks about Marvel and their inaccuracies. I was reiterating that anyone who thinks Marvel is accurately representing anything are mistaken, hence there's no need for a bunch of racist nonsense.
Even if they were trying to be 'accurate', there were plenty of African and Middle Easterners in the culture due to the wide spread of viking travel and their penchant for bringing back foreign wives. So it's all just racist bollocks.
The way minors are treated when they enter the public sphere is often straight out abusive. Especially if it's she girl and especially if it's she girl who isn't white. Personally I avoid consuming media where a lot of the cast exist of minors, because I basically assume there are ethical problems with it. I would prefer 20 year old actors playing the role of teenager over the possibility of a teenager not realizing how they will inevitable being mistreated. (Sorry for my bad English)
Can't believe I've watched the first two Potter films a gazillion times and never noticed that there was a previous Lavender Brown 😞 Was she ever referred to by name? I know she didn't get any lines.
She wasn’t! I don’t remember exact why I knew she was lavander tho haha
@@juanitacanon3120 Maybe you paid attention to the credits! I looked this up and it seems that the original actress didn't persue acting after CoS, and the book where Ron dates "LavLav" (and her descriptions are given) hadn't come out at that time.
I mean a lot of Harry's classmates were just there as fan service and so the Potterheads were 'in the know' but casual movie goers probably had no idea who they were. That being said, the recasting is a red flag. It was like "wait, this character is important, find a white girl". And even if they had to recast...which actually happened a couple times (I believe Angelina and the Patil Twins were recast during the run of the whole series and Chris Columbus's daughter was in a non-speaking role as Susan Bones, but disappeared when he stopped directing the films) the active choice to not re-cast as Black is questionable as a "but why?".
@@TheDawnofVanlife Agree. The optics are bad. On the flip side, Lavender Brown is a one-dimensional, unliked character, so the amount of abuse a black actress would receive from portraying her would be horrendous.
@@Frogface91 Truth! And unlike white-Lavendar where it's just she is annoying as an individual, somehow, someway, black Lavender would have been dragged in some diminishing racial way.
God I remember this. Imagine reading the name Cho Chang, a clearly problematic stereotype of a name, and thinking “yes, this is another white character I can project my Caucasian self onto”
Joanne did her dirty. Just because she gave Harry a crush on Cho to be "diverse" did not fix what she failed to do for her character. As for the movies, it was even worse, because they made Cho the snitch in the fifth movie when she wasn't in the books and tried to make all the unneccessary hatred towards her character from others justified through that. She deserved better.
She honestly still would have been hated if they kept it the same as the books. At least in the movie, Cho was forced to snitch with truth serum. In the book, her friend chose to snitch because they had parents in the ministry. I’ve debated with people last week who think it’s unforgivable Cho defended her friend. This fandom glorifies the golden trio and even bullies like the mauraders, yet they can’t understand why Cho wouldn’t drop a friend for mildly inconveniencing Harry.
I don't understand the mentality that you could ever judge someone based on the most trivial of superficial differences like sex, gender, race or sexual preferences. All people have almost identical DNA, separated by billionths of a percentage point. Our thoughts and emotions define us, everything physical is just the way our personalities interact with the world.
Prejudices are shortcuts formed by the brain to over-simplify our experiences, to allow us to make decisions more quickly. It's a survival mechanism, or at least it was. In modern society, those shortcuts take the form of data that isn't relevant to our survival or social standing, and just get in the way.
This is a much needed and wonderful video!
Now, this may be kind of off the subject, but a lot of racist people hide behind the "dark humor" veil too. What a lot of people don't seem to understand or just don't care about, is you can be critical/funny without being racist and mean. And I'll have to disagree with you on how some may not be inherently racist. If anyone says, does, or implies something that might be racist to bipoc, you're racist. Of course, some may have different "tolerance levels" to racism, but it still counts. Also, microaggressions happen all the time, that's covert racism. Sadly, a lot of people have racism and antiblackness ingrained in their blood. So you, a white person, has the power to play "benefit of the doubt". We can't play that game. That game puts us in jail, sex trafficked, and/or dead. White people have room to slip up and be racist in the eyes of other white people. But as soon as we call out the things that are harmful, there's pushback from people who claim they're not racists. Bipoc have to look over their shoulders when it comes to people being racist and prejudiced all the time. Please don't take this as me coming for you or all white people
Man... I didn't even realize this character was problematic as a kid. I just thought she was cute! Now I just feel awful 😰
The backlash the actress received was totally uncalled for, too!
This is kinda fascinating to me... I remember reading the books and thinking to myself "I wish I can read more about Cho". She was a badass character and she was dealing with some SERIOUS trauma that just wasn't fleshed out to the reader. When Harry dismissed her as emotional, it stuck out to me because normally Harry is portrayed as a kind-hearted character. It felt like something he wouldn't actually say or think. I chalked it up to a teenage boy being shitty but now that I think of it, maybe that was some of J.K.'s racism accidentally showing through the text. I don't even know if Rowling is aware of her biases. I didn't connect the dots between the character being Asian and the inclusion in the plot so it kinda just went over my head.
holy shit internet sucks
Accurate
Welcome to the world, kid. Welcome to the world.
Reminds me of people outraged over ru being black in the hunger games like it was obvious she was with how she was described in the book
Well that was a disgusting way to treat a teenager, I must admit I am not even surprised though. The online hatemob has done a lot of terrible shit for years now
As an Asian American thank you for teaching me something I need to know! It's a bit scary knowing people will secretly judge me being an Asian writer when I grow older and can have a job.
Damn I didn’t even realize how Harry was so insensitive in the books when Cho’s boyfriend ACTUALLY DIED. I really need to reread the books.
as someone who also talks with their hands a lot, I love seeing that you do too! been really enjoying listening to your videos lately.
I sort of wished Harry and Cho ended up together, since it felt a lot more intreseting then Harry and Ginny (and it..would have added some non-white characters in the main cast but ok)but when I was a child and the movies were in the theaters I read in a teengirl magazine how much Katie was bullied online and even got racist letters.
jessie, i found you a week ago and i'm hooked. even though I'm not into the genres of fiction that you cover, your commentary (and obvious passion) is great. thoroughly enjoying this new subscription, the bell is on!
altho I did raise myself on Harry Potter so this topic in particular drew me in instantly. Cho as a character was always being done dirty, the studios should have honestly been prepared to protect these kids from harassment, not dismiss and hide it from the public.
sigh... at least this sort of feels like the final great disenchantment of my childhood nostalgia
I also hate Jk R*****g’s blatant internal misogyny in trying to make Ginny look better by making Cho seem like an emotional girly mess and having Ginny be the “not like other girls, tough, cool chick”. Personally I feel like I would have liked Cho much better than I like Ginny if the former had been given even a little dimension as a character. Also let’s not ignore that Harry totally romanticized the idea of Cho and completely left her in the dust when he found out he’d have to deal with baggage and a real person, especially after literally leading her on and ghosting her. Poor Cho.
Ms. Tran has repeatedly asked people to call her by her Vietnamese name, Loan, rather than Kelly Marie. I'm sure you were unaware of that, but please support POC when we reclaim our non-white names as a screw you to racists. Linguistic validation is a thing, and something that is important to her as someone who was pressured into taking a white name to succeed in Hollywood initially (and there's probably a whole video essay's worth of racism to delve into there but I don't think either of us have the spoons to dig into Hollywood's history of forcing white European names onto POC.)
You wrote fanfic about Cho Chang? Anywhere I can find it?
I feel really sorry for the character of Cho Chang and for Katie Leung.
Same! I wrote a Cho fanfic once
Jessie has a new video? Clicks at warp speed!!!
that's an awful thing to do especially to a child. on a more positive note yesterday steven yeun got nominated for lead actor for his part in minari. he was the first Asian American to be nominated for lead actor at the oscars.
I remember when I went to the cinema to see the last jedi
And my initial thought of rose was "oh, she's cute and clumsy, she will be the new character the fandom will find cute I love it"
Never did racism cross my mind and I swear something broke inside of me when I found out the fandom's true response to her
To me so much of this speaks of the importance of having meaningful rep across multiple characters and not falling into tokenism. When you have one Cho Chang representing East Asians across 7 main franchise books and 8 main franchise movies (not to mention the companion novels, prequel movies, plays, games, etc) then you have one child, Katie Leung, shouldering all the baggage, the racism, the "positive" stereotypes, the misogyny, the expectations and everything else you can think of for that entire franchise.
More rep across the board would go a long way to helping here.
Its so awful that Katie had to carry all that shit alone, especially as a child. The adults around her really, really let her down. They should be ashamed.
And speaking of JKR doing Asian characters dirty, the Patil twins deserved to be more than Harry and Ron's backup dates for the Yule Ball.
just saying the name "Cho Chang" out loud makes me feel like im saying a slur
Regarding the situation where she as a 16-year-old girl was able to find the abusive comments while fully grown adults weren't - she's my age. When I was 16 - **in 2004** - you could barely trust fully grown adults to be able to *turn on* a computer, let alone find anything online.
Maybe I'm just cynical, but when someone tells me they can't find something that is easy to google, I presume they're lying.
I talked about it with my Chinese friend who isn't that into Harry Potter and when I told her JKR named the girl Cho Chang she was like 'what the fuck is that supposed to be, it's two surnames', because this is literally a racist mock up, zero research done on how Chinese names work, plus she's a walking Asian stereotype. Yikes. I really can't enjoy Harry Potter anymore, it completely lost its magic for me. Thank gods we got fanon lol
I remember reading HP as a kid and being really excited that there was an Asian girl in my favorite house (I'm half Japanese). And she didn't get to do hardly anything and then Harry treated her so poorly. Le sigh. I didn't know about the racist attacks that Katie Leung experienced either. That's really horrible.