Sia's Music: The Trap of Symbolic Autistic Representation
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- #SiaMusic #Ableism #Autism
Sia's recently directorial debut Music has received a ton of critism from the autistic community and has been critically reviled... yet was also nominated for two Golden Globes, including Best Comedy. Considering the very wide reception of the film, let's take a nuanced look on the controversies around the film.
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Hmm she does show a treatment autism speaks is endorsing, but ooo no impact at all, the forced hugging. Suuure.
And actors can be sensitive of something they arent actualy experiencing great. My favourite in another rea would be jennifr goines from the 12 monkeys series, despite her not lookinng that, but actress who is great did research a lot about well shizophrenia and it awould seem for the character, her character gets awesome later too finding her place and she is the breakout star so, she really gets empowered naturally.
And did a respectful representation i think,
Or crazy ex girlfriend where the music means some personal coping mechanism, symbolism, inner life.
May I ask, as a person on the spectrum what did u think of this article on New York Times about "tone indicators" being used online & in texts to help neurodivergent people? My partner has autism & has a very hard time understanding text messages which causes a lot of problems in his life. Do you think this is a good solution & would u make a video about it? www.nytimes.com/2020/12/09/style/tone-indicators-online.html
I am stuck on the idea that baby Jessie got teased for stimming. It really brings out my momma bear.
This was incredibly enlightening. Thank you. I do have an honest question: how do you think films should go about portraying nonverbal autism? Or, what is more precise, a *person* with nonverbal autism?
It's always wonderful to find someone else in the autism spectrum
Makes me feel a little less isolated, ya'know
“I’m not saying Sia is a bad person...”
After her tirades on Twitter against members of my community, I’ll say she is.
message to all the hater and to the author of this shitty video.
Sia has EDS, ehlers danlos syndrome.it s a heavy genetic mutation that makes 80% of our body malfunctioning. it s a very painfyl and disabiliting disease. the mutation impacted our nerves, autonomous system and our brain. but also all the system of the body. for this reason, our community is full of neurodivergent person including autistic person. i m myself on the high verbal functionning spectrum... And Sia is probably also. and our mutation is one of the most painful in the world. she had litteraly suffered in her body to make this movie. and she s concern by neurodivergent syndrom as a large part of our community. and myself. you should be all ashamed of yourself to be so ignorant.
and to the author of this shitty video, shame on you to attack an ally that suffers a lot more than you and share a part of your symptoms. all that to make an easy coins. you are a shameful person more interest to make an easy coins than make proper research.
and the fact that you put some like to some comment that says that Sia is a awful horrible person and that you caution people suggesting that Sia is a pedophile is so disgusting. you are a shame.
coming from someone that is also on the high verbal functionning spectrum:
you are all disgusting human beings. 🤮🤮🤮
@@princeloup5093 So apparently, to you, being in pain excuses blackface, racism, ableist visual effects that could give some autistic people seizures, meltdowns or shutdowns, and inaccurate portrayals of dangerous practices that could actually end up getting someone killed. Got it.
We're not ignorant, we're paying attention to what she's doing and how she's doing it because her feelings do not excuse her actions. She isn't even autistic, and neither is Maddie. Why did she make a film about that if she can't put herself into an autistic person's shoes?
@@princeloup5093 >tl;dr
@@xsweetiebloomx605 you're so right, imagine saying being in pain lets you do whatever you want??? Yikes. I'm glad you called this out so well, I wouldn't have said it so well
@@princeloup5093 Sia isn’t gonna sleep with you, dude
They didn't study actual people, they studied movies. All that does is double down on the existing stereotypes.
im willing to bet half a penny that they watched rain man as their ‘research’ for how autistic people act
exactly its like broken telephone
@@hecklife6636 No need to, Sia herself admitted it.
Actually it's based on an actual autistic person Sia knows. Ir's about a specific type of autisim and it's very accurate
@@loturzelrestaurant I'll have to watch that new Hbomberguy video (if it's the one on vaccines, I've watched it a few times and I wish everyone would see it!)
Autism Speaks is an anti-autistic hate group, and there’s not really room for nuance in that. Among many other things, ABA that they push is deeply traumatic abuse, even in its more recent forms that avoid direct punishment. It still focuses on teaching autistic kids that their own needs and feelings and bodily autonomy are unimportant if an adult wants to invade their personal space or do something to their body that the child doesn’t like, and I hope I don’t have to go into any more detail than that to explain why that’s horrific.
autism speaks and aba being so mainstream and accepted is what makes the world so scary for autistic people. i can walk down a street and wonder how many people don’t want me to exist :/
Truth!
@@useroffline9999 If they flat-out want to "cure" the spectrum, we should probably tar them with another all-too appropriate brush: _eugenic._
When I finally saw that autism speaks website trailer for the first time, words just couldn't express how I felt about it. Imagine if there was an organization that tried to spread the same message about [trisomy 21]. "You as a parent are a victim if you have a child with [trisomy 21], and we're about fixing them."
(trisomy 21 goes by another more better known name, but I notice that it sometimes gets censored out nowadays. it should be the top google search).
I'm fucking furious at how centred in the discussion groups like autism speaks are. It makes it impossible to find actual resources for autistic people. I was looking for advice to improve my attention span and wanted to look for research specific to autism, because most neurotypical suggestions don't work for me. All of the resources were for parents improving the attention span of their young children, and all of the suggestions were barbaric.
One woman talked about how she had to bang pots and pans together next to her child's head to get them to listen to her. They treated that like a normal, acceptable way to parent. Like it was necessary in order to get her child to school work at the right time or whatever. That's fucking abuse, and yet shit like that is the prevailing theory on how to treat autistic people.
TLDR: Maybe you're just a bad Director.
THISS!!!!!
BRUTALS
OooooooOooo
PERIOD
YES
As a woman with an ASD I know there are people living on Music's end of the spectrum and they should have accurate representation in the media. I still strongly feel, however, that Sia and her team did a very poor job at it, though.
My stimming is hitting my leg with my fist or rapidly tapping my collarbone. If the external stimuli is too much, I have a tendency to cry even when I don't want to.
I'm autistic, which people either don't believe or abuse. I've had people use my autism against me after I confided to them. Now, because of how I've been treated, I just flat-out tell everyone I'm on the Spectrum. Thay way, when it's obvious they're treating me differently, I don't seem like the jerk when I say something. People think "being autistic" is being like how Maddie was made to portray an autistic person. Like...no. some do, but most don't. I get stupidly hyper, I bounce. I try to curb it, but I can't. I've tried. When I can't bounce, I get aggravated and agitated. I don't wanna feel like that, but my job makes me feel like I'm a burden.
2 Things About STIMMing:
1) STIMMing doesn't last hours
2) STIMMING can be as subtle as filing your nails or applying nail hardener / polish. I tend to do light kicks, Dad tends to bounce his leg(s) from the knee down.
I pull my hair. Everytime it starts I have to take out the broom and sweep all the hair off the floor. It would get so bad Id be left with bald patches. It helps to have a piece of clay or fidget toy, plus I tie up my hair while I’m at work :)
I wish the second kind of stimming was featured on TV more. My stims were very subtle until I started having tourette’s at the age of 20 and some autistic people don’t stim at all.
@@rhys4489 same, i dont have tourettes but i understand this. when i was younger i was so embarassed by my bodily movements that i could not control. i waved my arms, jumped, bit my lip, rocked back and forth, and worst of all (to those around me) breathed very hard and made noise. i genuinely wish i could take away the shame and stop heavily masking these stims but im a woman and being autistic and a woman is so stigmatised, and theres almost no representation of this group. i get home after work and just release the awful feelings that come with all that masking.
Exactly. I have only been diagnosed with autism (not very serious though) abt a year ago but after I did some more digging (i have some autistic friends so i knew a decent amount) I found out I was stimming actually quite a bit. Bouncing my legs, tapping my fingers on the table, or just straight up walking around if I can’t find the rest to sit. I just have to move with SOMETHING. I actually find it quite amusing that I get irritated when someone other than me does it, because it makes sense but also not?😂
I still don’t know how to deal with all my mental shit (more than just autism) because I always had trouble with my other handicap as well. I swear I’m just collecting everything that is a handicap or mental illness at this point.
But yea this was absolutely disturbing... stimming usually isn’t even an ‘episode’ or ‘attack’... it’s just a thing that you do unconsciously that helps you deal with nervousness or stress or whatever is bothering you. It’s pretty normal actually and I fail to understand why people cannot understand this.
prince loup I’d be honestly impressed to meet an autistic person who could be in distress for hours and not have a meltdown. Me personally, I couldn’t.
‘I will make sure your marriage fails’ LMAO I and two siblings are autistic and all five of us have adhd among other things (all adults at this point)
*my parents just celebrated over 30 years together*
Awesome
Aww:) Autism Speaks is straight up evil for that ad, implying autistic people...what, can't love? Jesus
@@margaretgibbs6673 in this context (the ‘i am autism’ PSA), it was more abt how having an autistic kid will lead to divorce (bc whoever ever heard of an autistic adult /s)
although w regards to ur comment, my NT husband and I are celebrating our 2nd anniversary in december, so I’m gonna take that as another victory against autism speaks lol
It's like the anti-drug marketeers all lost their jobs and were hired by Autism Speaks. What a horrible ad full of horrible nonsense.
That ad made me want to cry and I felt so extremely sick with each passing line. I'm not autistic and don't know many people that are personally, and am not very educated on the very complex topic. But as an adult who is very emotionally sensitive, was bullied often for other reasons growing up, and LOVES CHILDREN so much, I just can't even fathom how that ad must have made so many autistic children feel. Labeling them as...what? Nuisances, embarrassments, disappointments? Money-suckers, home-wreckers? Diseased? It's despicable.
"Maybe you're just a bad actor"... 😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕 What the hyuck?!
pretty bold coming from sia lol. no shade to maddie zeigler but she’s a dancer not an actress. also the movie is just... kinda bad
Maybe you're just a bad director, sia 🙄
She is so horribly miscasted, because as a dancer she is SO comfortable in her own skin and she is chosing to play off the bodylanguage of a person who is not and it is unauthentic because the girl can’t even imagine that feeling.
Yh, as soon as I saw that tweet I lost every inch of admiration and respect I had for Sia 😠
Am I the only one whe hadnt seen Sia without a wig before watching this video? After seeing her it seems even so much more creepy that a 40yo hangs out with a teen so much.
Seeing how the girl in "Please stand by" spoke without looking in other people's eyes made me tear up a little honestly, because I too never look into anyone's eyes or even at their faces. I just saw myself from a third person's pov
I am deeply concerned for Maddie Ziegler. She has had a childhood where she has been victim to so many stupid adults.
That generally doesn't bode well.
This feels like Bojack Horseman's Sarah Lynn in process.
"The Child" is now over 18years and still rolling out from underneath and 'cuddling' this older woman. Maybe it's her thing.
@@suzanking5625 I do see your point. But it is worth mentioning that this film was made when she was about 14 and she was very much a dependent child subject to the whims of the adults she trusted.
Plus even if she is an adult, she is still a comparatively young woman who has been taught to do what the adults in her life told her to do.
I feel there is room for sympathy and concern personally.
@@suzanking5625 Cool so you're just going to not acknowledge grooming exists and the effects of it don't magically go away once you turn 18? Got it
@ probably more like Bojack himself. Or is he Sia?
one of the worst comebacks she had was that she had a diverse cast and crew (poc and trans people), and “didn’t even make them play prostitutes or drug addicts”
wow thanks sia!
congrats on doing the bare fckin minimum, sia 👏
@@tidepodpadthai2633 not even the bare minimum. That is the skinned minimum.
@@Zarmdthecoolest Yea like a Yautja went to town on it
@a random kid
Nah more like the bones of the minimum
What a weird and uncomfortable way to talk about people you have a professional relationship with.
The fact that Kate Hudson's character is mainly framed in the movie poster while Music is in the corner on a smaller scale already tells a lot about the actual message of the movie.
@@etherealtb6021 you saw the 2nd trailer..after the first one was shown and given so much criticism, the 2nd trailer was released a week later and it completely flipped it's focus away from the "autistic" character. It's classic diversion. After the 2nd trailer premiered, the comments were more praising than anything. If you look on Sia's channel, you can see the original trailer. Look at the comments. It's a complete 180.
@@etherealtb6021 yeah dude it's wild right!
who is music> never heard of them. I know kate hudson ...by name only. if you asked me to tell her apart from other actresses named kate i'd just be like...aren't these all the same person?
@@greatpower6063 Music is the main character of the film, played by maddie ziegler.
i literally do sometimes just thnk they have a machine thaet photocopies ladies named kate and then they give them all a surname and a bit different hairstyle and send them out into the world to be poipstars or actors or musicians or whatever. It would be funny if there was a movie about that where one of them awakens and becomes like a superhero to free all the others from mind control,.
I'm really relieved that you've highlighted Sia and Maddie's relationship/power dynamic. A lot of people are slinging their heaviest criticism at Maddie because she's the "face" of the project, but she was still effectively a kid when this was produced. Given the dumpster fire this movie became, it's clear that Sia had no interest in changing 'her vision' no matter the cost.
It's a shame, because I think if Sia HAD handled this with care and a mandate to accomodate autistic needs (both in production and in viewership), it might have been something good. I do think Sia's eclectic style and directive choices could have paired well with the issue.
Thanks as always for the work you do, Jessie!
The movie just good have been better
@@anyafilcek984 Exactly. It might've gone differently with more care and attention to the communities it involved, but this was a big swing and a miss.
I already said this in a separate comment, but your comment about the power dynamic is exactly what I was trying to say when I said "Imagine being 14, scared you're about to do something wrong, and an adult says "Its cool, I'll crush anyone who tries to be mean to you about it", so you DO IT, the way the adult told you to, and everyone hate bombs you and the adult who told you it was okay either isnt trying to or simply cannot protect you the way they claimed they would"
I work in a small film industry. Sets do tend to get very loud and sometimes overwhelming, but you can work around it. You can reduce staff, you can arrange quiet spaces and make them readily available. If it’s a passion project I would expect her to pull all the plugs.
excuse me but what about that technicolor kitsch is 'eclectic'?
I kinda feel bad for Maddie. She literally said that she didn't think that the movie would be praised like Sia thought it would. AND she BROKE DOWN because of it! AND Sia still made her do it anyway!!!!! That is the lowest of lows.
@@loturzelrestaurant cynical reviews’ cover on this movie was good
As a 14 year old autistic girl, I hate this movie. Both the film itself, and the production. But I don't blame Maddie one bit. Sia has so much power over her and she clearly expressed her concerns. I feel awful for her, she's way more mature and sensitive than a grown woman.
Even her name "Music" invokes a feeling of that she is more of an idea than a person, she doesn't human name because Sia wasn't interested in promoting a human. She was only interested in promoting her.. Music.
@@princeloup5093 nice copypasta. EDS excuses none of this.
@@princeloup5093 why does your iq matter in this, again?
Personally, I love weird names in fiction, even if people think they're obnoxious. Music, Blue, Bird. However, I do agree that naming her Music doesn't help with this situation.
@@nabilamiah3814 yeah I dont mind the name, but it is interesting to point out when so many rich people want to have bold artistic works. I actually like interesting names and I wouldn't mind more autistic characters both normal named and very unique, but I'd prefer if these characters were created BY us and with us as consultants among other things.
Whoever names their child Music should be put on a list where they’re not allowed to do, anything!
(Reference to a RUclips channel that reviewed this)
i just had the horrendous realization that Music is literally the exact same functionally as one of those movies about a guy who gets saddled with a badly-behaved dog or horse that he eventually learns to love because it helps him find a girlfriend. it's like the sexy lamp test for people with disabilities: if your disabled character could be replaced with a LITERAL ANIMAL without changing the plot at all, you wrote a bad disabled character.
At least she didn’t die at the end
In other words, it's like Rain Man.
Oh my god it's the autistic version of that new Peter Rabbit movie
Sia and Hooch.
Music and Me
Sia's obsession with Maddie is really fucking creepy, and I think just because she's a woman it's just brushed off, but her Hero/Saviour complex is really problematic. if it were a grown ass man, 27 YEARS OLDER than Ziegler having slumber parties, sleeping in the same bed and creating roles to be around her as much as possible among many other creepy things Sia mentions about Maddie and their dynamic, it would be a VERY different controversy.
Sia needs to be locked up!
It’s all very Micheal Jackson
despite what society and msm would have you believe, being a creeper isn't exclusive to men. time to normalize calling women creepy.
@@canada420mma I agree but one question: does msm refer to something other than the arthritis treatment stuff?
@@hollyro4665 mainstream media
Older sibling of an autistic person here. I have a hard time being patient with non-autistic people when they talk about autism because I keep hearing the same stereotypes repeatedly and I have to gently go over the same explanations again and again. I can already hear people excitedly saying, "Oh my god, have you seen this film? It's amazing!", and I am so not looking forward to repeatedly explaining to them why I hate it. That restraint scene in particular distresses me, and when my sibling was younger I worried all the time that someone at school would abuse and hurt them. I still worry about how other people are going to treat them. My sibling is fantastic as they are, and they deserve so much more than this awful movie.
I'm on the spectrum as well as both of my children. That hold is not acceptable. There are children who hit themselves hard enough to cause brain damage or bite hard enough to need stitches, so there are some lesser restraints to protect themselves from harm, but that full body hold is quite dangerous. There are some arm holds that would stop her from smacking herself in the head if she gets too violent about it, but it would be after trying to talk her out of it or distraction or even a reinforcement of some variety.
My son's teacher decided to do one of those after he kicked a table during a tantrum. She's not a teacher anymore. They had the state police as well as the IU do an investigation. You don't do a full body hold like that short of a kid trying to kill someone. New teacher uses words to deescalate and no holds since then.
I currently babysit an autistic boy and I would NEVER try to do it. it terrifies me. and the fact that the movie is just loaded with color and flashing lights rubs me the wrong way since it could be a sensory overload for some of the other kids I've babysat.
@@jules6578 Clinicians usually require training an insurance to even do a hold, so no one would be suggesting a family member do it in the US. It would also be a last choice kind of thing to protect the client from self harm. Really, if you were worried that she might harm someone else, you'd clear the area. I've seen rooms cleared when a child goes into a violent tantrum to protect everyone. Really talking someone down from things tends to work, if not, you just wait them out.
I've never had an outburst that I've lost myself as a child, but I have self harmed, and could be talked into stopping. My youngest son has had tantrums where he's lost himself and gone glossy eyed beating his head off the floor. I didn't put him in a hold, but did try to stop him and get something soft and try deep pressure. Usually he just hits the ground and we just move away and let him calm down.
That scene really bothers me. I've been around kids that act fairly similar to the main character, but that's because I've been around a lot of kids on the spectrum, but she does seem more like a caricature than a person. I would have to actually watch the movie to give a full critique, and I'm not sure I want to, but I don't feel like they were giving her a personality. I've met completely nonverbal kids who have personality, and most of them do do sign language and do try to communicate in different ways. I have not personally met a person on the spectrum who was a literal human doll that just stims randomly.
Personally, I'm 2e (gifted with autism), my 2 sons are also 2e, but the younger one has extreme language and communication issues and almost all tantrums are associated with communication. When I was younger and had some issues with speech it caused a great deal of aggravation. I can understand loosing you shit when you can't say what you want to and no one seems to understand you either. We spend a lot of time practicing speaking and reading, and he's come leaps and bounds, and is less upset.
Really I was going somewhere here, but started rambling as I do. I just don't know how to feel about it. Feelings have never worked like normal people for me.
@@KEisensmith I'm just there to watch them, there are professionals in the room, but it's a daycare system. I come in to study and have some hands on experience. i would just be terrified if a kid and/or professional has to go through it.
The restraint scene really upset me too. I'm autistic. The whole "She doesn't know who you are" when Maddie's character was having a meltdown made me have to pause the video just to cuss angrily. I've never known an autistic person who didn't know who their friends and family are, when we're melting down. I've known people with psychosis and PTSD, myself included, who don't, but never autism. During a meltdown, we know who people are. We just can't handle them talking to us, interacting with us, etc, because it can overload our brains worse. Out of all the infantilizing and demeaning parts of this film, THAT really struck a chord. It's clear, Sia sees us as objects needing saving, and herself and others like her as some sort of savior. People who "truly understand" our minds. It's really frustrating.
Maddie should not be harassed. She was pressured by her mum and Sia into doing a role that she knew would be offensive.
It reminds me of the Judy Garland clip of her in blackface as a child. She was roughly the same age as Maddie in this film, I think. In reality, Judy was a supporter of the civil rights movement and was forced to wear blackface.
As someone who is autistic, It's extremely upsetting that media just dehumanizes us and treats us like "funny human looking creatures" instead of humans who just perceive the world differently
Now you know how black people felt when racist premises in older movies were the norm. It'll get to a point where autistic representation gets better.
@@rommix0 your talking about modern day Hollywood here. I highly doubt that's going to happen
@@CantRead1 > your talking about modern day Hollywood here.
Hollywood was bad in the past too. Not like I was born yesterday.
I saw a thing recently that I think sums things up well, it was something like
“If you can replace the neurodivergent person in the movie with a dog that needs a serious operation without having to change anything about the movie, you have failed in representing the neurodivergent community.”
@@ms.annthropic6341 That's the very definition of a "disease of the week" movie but with a dog.
About Sia’s promise to ‘protect’ the actor regarding her portrayal, that is a perfectly legitimate thing for the director to say.
However, it speaks to Sia’s inexperience as a director that she tried to protect the actor *after* releasing the film.
The way that a director protects an actor about a portrayal is by shaping that portrayal during rehearsals, filming, and editing to ensure that the performance conveys what the role should convey in the mind of the director.
+ YES this is so spot on
Maybe Sia's just a bad director.
*"Sia claimed she went into this movie to finally give non-verbal autistic people a voice but instead she just replaced it with her own"* this line was so powerful
@@cb4017 Please, leave Maddie out of this. The girl has been groomed by Sia since she was 11, and her mother has taken advantage of her ever since she could dance. She was also 14 at the time of filming. Don't blame a child for this morbid project.
@@franks8462 also can we look at Lady gaga, Kylie Jenner, Billie Eilish? just few examples... it seems they all knew at a very early age all they wanted was fame and power, little girls that want to take over the world or how they are somehow determined by fame culture. So who is manipulating who? Is Finneas and Billy's mother manipulating Billy? is Kylie Jenner a manipulated victim? Being a child doesn't mean that you are free from ambition and power hunger, and part of me feels Maddie is power hungry too
@@cb4017 This is a very loaded topic, and I am not going to pretend that I know these people personally just so I can make an argument. Kids like the idea of fame. Kids are not aware of the implications of said fame, and that makes them vulnerable. A more concrete example (which has been well documented) is Justin Bieber. He "made it" in the music industry as a child and went on a downward spiral because he didn't know how to handle fame. A child can be both ambitious and a victim, and presuming that they have any agency in an industry where being exploited for money is very harmful take. One that I will not entertain. I hope you have a good one ✌️
@@franks8462 Well none of us know Maddie personally yet we are here commenting on her presumably being manipulated by Sia, we don't know this for sure.... It's kind of obvious but is still our assumption, so we shouldn't talk about it because we don't know her in real life? What about #FreeBrittaney? most of Brittany's fans don't know her personally. Maddie is a pop icon and we are the consumers and we can have any opinion we want, without having to know her or Justin Bieber personally, they are part of the culture and so are we. Justin Bieber today is empowered, not to mention filthy rich. I honestly don't think even if he went through trauma, that he would undo anything he went through as a child, because the final reward is worldwide power, money and fame. I appreciate your two cents.... not discussing these issues as a society that is fed what pop stars feed us, only make injustices become more taboo. Some people are just born competitive and ambitious, it's sad to admit but it's a hard truth. There are million little girls that want to be superstars just like Maddie, and parents that will go along with it.
@@cb4017 The difference is Billie and Gaga had some form of control over their work and hadn't been famous since they were children, and the Jenners didn't have an actual talent that was been pushed and used by their parents from a young age. She's been in the public eye since she was a kid, and that will negatively effect a person no matter what their pushy parents say.
Maddie has a real talent that her mother recognised very early on, and Maddie has been taking dance classes her whole life (since the age of two in fact). Unlike the Jenners and such whose whole goal is fame and money by any means, Maddie has a genuine love of dancing and the ability to do it. Her mother has been exploiting that ever since, which is how Maddie ended up on Dance Moms where the mothers get paid $1,000 per episode. No information to suggest the kids get paid anything of course, not even to a trust fund or anything.
No coincidence either that her mother took her out of the school system at the age of 11 to 'home school' her, the very same time Maddie got on Dance Moms and was guaranteeing momma got her cheque. Sia has spoken about been 'a mother figure' to the girl even while her own mother is still around, and momma doesn't seem to care. Sia has spoken about having 'sleepovers' with Maddie where they share a bed. Momma says nothing. You can't look at all this information and truly think Maddie hasn't been manipulated and badly raised by the adults around her her whole life, to the point that it's very likely she has no control over her decisions.
Maddie's interest in dance is genuine but has been exploited by her family and that creep Sia, social media brats and talentless people who still want fame and cash despite having no skills to earn it, are not comparable.
Sia is bi. She has/had addiction to drugs. She has bipolar. If she wanted to make an issue film, she could have made one from the heart. In fact that's basically what 1000 forms of fear was and look at the shift in quality! That album was widely considered a masterpiece because it was about pain that she was authentically expressing and understood with perfect articulation. I dont understand why she chose to make a movie she clearly knows very little about.
so basically sia could've made a movie about addiction or another issue using her own experience with the issue and cast maddie as the lead role.
when the internet can make a sia movie better than sia...
A movie about cycling between mania and depression or about drug addiction would probably serve as a better vessel for showing off Maddie's expressive dancing skills as well.
Thiiiiis
bruh..... u right.
like i dont thinknits wrong if she had a strong interest and strong empathy for ASD folk and really wanted to help because she strongly cared for them
*but uh i dont think she had strong care for autistic folk.... like she just used stereotypes as a creative outlet and thats... questionable*
@@catatoblob8598 exactly. That's why music videos like chandelier were so powerful. Also I wouldve watched the shit out of a movie based on 1000 forms of fear. That album had real artistic direction
As an autistic person, the best thing you can do for me when I’m having a meltdown is LEAVE ME ALONE. That’s often all I want. I just need to be left alone for a while.
Thanks for saying what to do instead just of what not to❤
SAME! If you're already at the peak of overstimulation, the last thing you need is MORE STIMULATION!
Real
People need to realise that autistic people are people, too. A lot of my childhood was spent being restrained on the floor, screaming and thrashing. I think people did it to "stop me hurting myself" but I couldn't tell them that I was so, so scared. Because it's scary, being held down on the floor by someone stronger than you. Nobody helps, and if they're concerned, they're given the explanation, "She's autistic!" and they just accept it.
A lot of problems that I in particular faced (I can't speak for everyone with autism, but I do think it's something a lot of us have faced) is that I couldn't say what was wrong, which was why I made weird noises and stimmed - to calm myself down.
I still have massive communication issues, but I live alone now (thanks to some fantastic people helping me gain full independence) and I am in control of my flat; if it's too bright, I switch to my dim light. If the fan is too loud, I turn it off. If I can't eat certain foods, I find alternatives.
We can live great lives, too! We just have our own difficulties.
I was never restrained, but my father did use physical discipline when he felt it was necessary and favoured my neurotypical brother over me. I'd always get blamed for any wrong my brother did.
I was restrained sometimes as a young child if my meltdowns became too bad, and they seriously were some of the most traumatic experiences I’ve ever had to deal with.
hi! i want to start by saying i definitely understand why this would be traumatizing to anyone. i do have a question, and if youre not comfortable answering thats okay: what is a better practice to keep someone safe when theyre physically hurting themselves? i want to be better informed, and have read a lot about why physical restraint is bad, but i've never seen what the compassionate alternative would be, especially when theres actual risk of harm (like a child repeatedly hitting their head on a wall)
@@zorro...... we firstly can go about this by looking at autistic people not as objects that need to contained or managed, and working directly with them to help them find healthier stims. Anyone working with autistic people, caretakers or not, should be listening to them for feedback on how to make the environment less overwhelming so future overloads do not happen.
I was forcably restrained a lot as a kid by my parents during meltdowns. Found out recently that it is classed as a form of physical abuse (at least in the uk). It left me with chronic pain in one of my shoulders that's lasted for many years now. The restraints just made my meltdowns a lot worse, I was in pain, I was scared, I was unable to breathe. I just wanted to go sit in bed and wrap myself tight under the covers and calm down but my parents wanted to restrain me to "save me from myself".
Even the performer herself, Maddie Ziegler, was extremely concerned that this would be hurtful. At 14, she seemed to be the only person involved who ever stopped to think that maybe this wasn't it.
Sia has been so involved in her life from such a young age I cant really help but feel sorry for her.
@@penusbutter4182 in my opinion, she's a very sympathetic figure. she's been in public view for a long time, and we've all seen how that can mess with a kid's emotional development. I wouldn't have blamed her for her involvement if she had said nothing, bc she was a 14 year old with the cards against her in terms of understanding this kind of harm. to grow up in the public light and to develop a sense of empathy for people who are intangible, and who are being harmed in a less obvious way? I'm proud of 14 year old maddie.
I just hope Maddie and those adopted sons will be able to see this when they’re older. I hope they can get out.
You know you’re emotionally stunted when someone 20 years your junior is more empathetic than you
Just trying to correct, Maddie is 18 not 14. I dnt think it's right that a lot of people have tried to put a lot of blame on her bcz there is a lot of power imbalance btn her and sia and i think maddie does in some way feel indebted to sia...but she is also an adult now and did see the job through. I dnt think it's right to villanize her at all...i just think it's a bit more nuanced...
I am autistic, my partner is autistic, my kids are as well and I have worked both as a paraeducator working with autistic youth and a teacher. I think this is just a product of our culture. A culture that gives so much more attention to the Nurotypical moms of autistic children rather then the voices of autistic adults. Autistic adults are always cut out of the conversation and so a lot is said about us without us.
It's because they don't expect us to survive to adulthood, the amount of times I've had to explain in job interviews that my autism isn't a childhood condition is ridiculous!
@@XE0G That's why I have struggled as a teacher on whether to be open about my autism or not.
On one hand it's not fair that autistic kids don't get to see anyone like them succeeding. They don't get to see that autistic people grow up into great adults.
On the other hand I fear my colleagues and the parents. Colleagues who would treat me like a pet or toxic, and parents who wouldn't trust me and would put the same toxic views they have towards their own children's autism onto me as well.
I don't feel like defending the fact that I both am autistic (Because there will be people who doubt) and at the same time defend that I am capable (Despite holding the same credential they do)
@@travisbewley7084 what’s not fair is that when you are able to compensate for your neurodiversity, you aren’t on the spectrum anymore according the the prevailing DSM. That’s really not fair - and that IF your company has insurance which covers autism - it’s ABA or GTFO.
I can’t even with the damage autism speaks has caused....
It's the exact same with mental illnesses. We always interview the sibling or parent and give them as much if not more time to speak on it... and it's almost always focused on how tough it is, how hard it is... yeah
@@travisbewley7084 That is really sad & speaks poorly of your colleagues, I am not Autistic but have got similar grade nonsense because of my dyslexia in the past.
Sia: "It's too hard making a movie with an autistic actor."
Yeah, yeah. Tell that to Javier Fesser, who made an award winning film (Champions, 2018) with a cast full of neurodivergent actors.
prince loup Neurodivergent =/= autistic. There’s a big difference between having bipolar disorder and being autistic.
Exactly. This is like saying that because I am autistic I automatically know what it is like to have dyslexia. They just aren't the same thing.
Like... there are actually quite a lot of autistic actors. Autistic masking makes us very talented actors.
Daryl Hannah is one of my favorites.
or anyone who’s worked with dan alroyd… or daryl hannah… or anthony hopkins… or billy west (allegedly)… or tim burton (allegedly)…
Or “everything is going to be ok” an amazing show with autistic actors/characters
Something I've noticed was that a lot of autistic people (myself included, honestly) were completely thrown off by her movements and expressions in particular, and I think that really highlights why neurotypical people aren't really equipped to play autistic characters. We don't stim or move for no reason. Our expressions have a purpose and a language, same as our movements, and studies have shown that we can effectively communicate with other autistic people. It's when we talk to neurotypical people that problems occur.
So when allistic people copy the movements and expressions of autistic people, there's always a sort of disconnect because they don't know why we behave that way or what purpose it serves. They're just copying what they see, which ends up feeling like they're mocking us, even if the movements themselves are all things autistic people do.
well stated
Yes! That’s it exactly for me.
Agree in part - mostly it’s an issue with directing and writing. A decent actor can do research and if they have good direction and a good script to work off of, they can do a good job. For example, DiCaprio in What’s Eating Gilbert Grape.
Agree in part - mostly it’s an issue with directing and writing. A decent actor can do research and if they have good direction and a good script to work off of, they can do a good job. For example, DiCaprio in What’s Eating Gilbert Grape.
I showed the portrayal to my therapist and she said verbatim “Uh, that’s not autism. That’s a developmental delay mixed with Cerebral Palsy.”
About sums up this whole mess
When a 14 year old is concerned that this will be taken badly then you should probably listen
i think it also suffers from the 'autistic sibling' trope, where we're solely presented as horrible burdens to our siblings (who _must've_ had the _patience of a saint_ to deal with us), who often treated us as such.
It's such a crazy stupid trope because autism runs in families and many siblings are on different places on the spectrum. But regardless, even without that, I have eight siblings all ranging from medium support needs autistic to neurotypicals. And guess what? We are all saints for dealing with each other because all siblings are bastards lol. Like idk I know so many people with an "autistic brother" who just treat them like the person they are, which is someone they love but wanna kick across the room. The only people irl that regard themselves as saints for dealing with autistic siblings are people who have been indoctrinated by autism speaks and the like.
I have an autistic brother and he has opened my eyes to so many things in the world and I love him for it
This movie makes me sick
Matilda from _Everything’s Gonna Be Okay_ is portrayed much better. Half-brother Nicholas even realizes he himself is autistic at the end of season 2.
a lot of the time neurodivergent people such as me were always treated as a burden whether then even understand how i felt that way.
i legit asked my sis... and she did say : well sometimes u do have or had these ticks which came off childish. but you are you. and i will be your overprotective sister.
honestly the only person who had to adjust the most to my autistic ticks and what not was my dad... but it didnt take him years. or never did he say i was a burden.
I suspect that Sia’s assertion that she tried casting an Autistic actor in the rôle is a lie. It seems pretty obvious that she intended to cast Ziegler from the beginning, and her vitriolic response to the pushback she got on Twitter kind of gives the lie to any notion that this was a good-faith attempt at Autistic representation.
Yeah, note the contradiction of The Autistic Actor being uncomfortable on set. Despite Maddie crying on set on the first day, and she was forced to perform it anyway. Why would Sia let one actor go out of kindness yet force the other actor despite being 10 times less comfortable.
It most def is a lie. When the movie was first announced as 'Sister' Maddie's name was the only one attached and at that time Sia said that she wrote it for Maddie.
"Music" treats autistic people the same way movies about men falling in love with a manic pixie dream girl treat women: is not a story about them, they are just props for the main characters to develop and have a character arc.
Except that those movies never claimed to be about the love interest of the protagonist. See the difference?
@@brothermayihavesomeloops7048yeah, music was claiming to be give a voice to autistic people, but it was just a complete insult.
I have high functioning autism, and I have a right to be offended
Sia has put Maddie in such a hard position as the lead actress. She is the adult and should have known better.
She's done that ever since Chandelier, shoved Maddie out in front of her like a shield
I hope Maddie manages to escape eventually without too much lasting damage.
@@Ailieorz yeah, an 8yo probably isn’t mature enough to portray the addiction in Chandelier, right?
Yeah, she's really young, and seems like she's going to come out of this a bit more enlightened so I hope the cancellation bandwagon goes easy on her(sadly a lot of people on the internet are more out for blood than they are justice lol).
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Sia is irredeemable either. She does need to stop being such a stubborn assgoblin about it and listen to what people are saying though.
@@KattReen No relation to the thread, but I got a chuckle from reading assgoblin. 😜
The restraint scene was bonkers to me because I work with an individual who has meltdowns just like Music in this film. All I do is talk in a calming voice, remove the sources of stress, and give them sensory toys. I don't understand how throwing yourself on top of someone is the logical response here
Long ago they would advise that one should try to put something in a mouth of a person with a seizure so they would not bite their tongue. This is no longer recommend as first aid for those on the scene who are not medical staff.
@@eastlynburkholder3559 It was about swallowing one's tongue, which is impossible to do. And I have never heard about it being a good idea for anybody including medical staff to put something in someone's mouth if that someone has a seizure, given that it's a choking hazard. Unless you're talking about meds that can be put in someone's mouth, but that can probably also be done by someone who's not medical staff, as long as they know it's the correct thing to do.
@@camelopardalis84
Swallowing the tongue uhh not really possible or biting the tonge which is a very rare thing which is a tussle possible was the stated danger and the reason for putting something between the teeth. However, putting something between the teeth is risky and can harm the kid. We get smarter as we go with medical care.
I assumed the restraint scene was showing that the sister really had no fucking clude how to deal with it tbh
like a what not to do lol
@@xerrias
Look closely. The sister knows how but asks him to do it. He says, funny but not appropriate thst he does not want to press a white girl to the ground in the park. And if the movie had shown her banging her head into things or getting tangled up by walking up to a bench or trashcan.
Imagine being 14, scared you're about to do something wrong, and an adult says "Its cool, I'll crush anyone who tries to be mean to you about it", so you DO IT, the way the adult told you to, and everyone hate bombs you and the adult who told you it was okay either isnt trying to or simply cannot protect you the way they claimed they would.
Good example of how ignorance can and will hurt others both the ignorance Sia had and the ignorance of those reacting who hadn’t realized that the kid expressed that she didn’t want to do this but an influential celebrity adult that they’ve known for years encouraged her to do the role
Yeah I just think most people agree this isnt Maddie's fault and she's basically been groomed since she was 11 by Sia. It's icky. Plus she was subjected to abuse before she even met Sia as she was raised on Dance Moms which is such a toxic program
But I haven't been on Twitter so I do think it wouldn't be unlikely that Maddie is receiving backlash even though it's not her fault :/
@@MellowJelly I don't pay much attention to the Twittersphere myself, but I wouldn't be surprised
@@MellowJelly I’ve seen it on Twitter and TikTok. People are going very hard on her and basically saying “It doesn’t matter that she was 14, she was old enough to no better and not do the movie”
Most of these people 1. Don’t know how movie productions work and 2. Don’t know much about children growing up in show business who rarely get a say in what they want or don’t want and are often pressured/abused by adults in their life who they trust and love.
For some reason because of this specific situation people are ignoring the power dynamics and inherent abuse. Meanwhile if this wasn’t an issue of a famous child who was pressured into doing something like stealing from a store, people would definitely say the child wasn’t at fault. Then again older children often don’t get that same sympathy that younger ones do because “they are old enough to stand up for themselves, know right from wrong, etc.”
When you mentioned the movie was just about Kazoo having to deal with Music's autism, and that's basically what the movie was about.....I realized. That's it. That's the issue with Autism Speaks. It's not about us autistic people to them. It's about all the "poor souls" who have to "put up" with us. That's one of the reasons why we hate Autism Speaks. We're looked at as problems to be dealt with, side characters in our own story, rather than unique people who just need some help meeting people in the middle of the language barrier. Autism Speaks isn't about autistic people. It's about those who 'suffer' us.
From the few clips I watch, everything about this movie makes me angry. From the flashing colors, the stupid expressions, and the restraint. Oh gosh, the restraint. I have never enjoyed being restrained. It is NOT good for me. It has ONLY succeeded in making me more panicked and angry. I remembering clawing the arms of my dad when he did it till he bled because he decided to "hug" me while I was upset while my mom sang, "Deeeeep pressure therapy!" in the background. I was peeved and trapped. He laughed at me clawing him. I don't even like being touched on a good day .
100% agreed. I feel like they treat us as "diseases" that need to be cured.
This is so well put, and I’m so sorry you had to go through that.
yeah, the restrains part is messed up - people have died from being put in those types of restraints
Your parents sound terrible, they don't deserve to have you and you deserve better.
Autism speaks is terrifying. Seriously I am so glad my parents hate it as much as they do. I didn't have to deal with the misinformation they have presented. My mental state is *Mine* . The idea of taking it out is so scary. That is part of who I am and I don't want it taken away. I have a high functioning version, and yeah, it can be really hard on people. Doesn't mean everyone is broken and needs to be fixed. I don't want to be fixed, I want to adapt and thrive with all of me.
Oh man deep pressure therapy. It can work but oh my gosh it is very subjective!! I can't imagine my parents forcing me into it. I like hugs, I like blankets. I HATE being restrained with everything in me. I want someone to offer hugs, not tackle me from behind, I am so sorry. Have things gotten better for you?
'Sia didn't consider that autistic people would watch this movie.'
Given her attitudes, I'm not sure she considered that autistic people were people.
maybe she assumed the majority of autistic people were like how she portrayed music and maybe wouldn’t watch her film -_-
Me neither. I saw that weird interview of hers and cringed audibly.
she did agree that non verbal autistic people are furniture so...
She looks so fucking proud of herself in that clip, pisses me off.
@@byrnetdown6076 oh man, there are soooo many ways to tell someone off in sign language, at least ASL. I can think of a few I'd like to say to Sia now.
Fantastic overview of this mess. As a young autistic woman, this movie should speak to me, yet all I can hear is "You're lucky we tolerate your antics, now go inspire some neurotypical hero to appreciate life more"
“You’re lucky we tolerate you” that’s it. That’s the movie summed up. It’s sia saying “look how lucky you are that we accept you even though you’re a nightmare.” Autistic people are not a nightmare and they deserve to have a world that changes to allow them to thrive instead of just exist
I wish people would understand that "Autistic" is not "r*tarded"
IKR? It's exactly what this all feels like, and is. It's so horrible of them to even think this was remotely okay.
I grew up with 2 autistic brothers and this film is straight up portraying abuse rather than caring for someone with autism 🤦
I just want to say that this film is a piece of shit and so is anyone who makes you feel like you’re only tolerated. You are human beings, no matter if you’re considered neurotypical or not. You deserve to be loved as you are, and to exist in a way that makes you happy.
Please don’t think you have to change the things that don’t hurt your life. It’s ok to have interests that aren’t “age appropriate”, to stim if you need to, and it’s ok to let yourself move in your own body the way you need to. We all have to pretend in public but you should be able to be you at home, to be accepted as you, and to have people work to understand you.
I hope you all have someone there to bring you a blanket or tea or water after a meltdown, who understands that sensory tolerance can change in an instant, and who enjoys and appreciates all of who you are as a person.
You don’t need to be “fixed” or “cured”. You’re not a bad student, child, partner, friend, employee, or parent. You deserve to be understood and you don’t have to make yourself something else for other people.
You are a fascinating and amazing person exactly as you are, and the world is better place because of it.
I really think the worst thing about the restraint scene is how effectively they make it seem like a normal and correct response. They haven't acted out of panic because they don't know what to do, to them it is a tedious repetitive chore and they even have time to discuss 'whose turn it is.' Music becomes their pet, and violence is the only way they know how to 'handle' her. If they saw her as a fully fledged human being they would never dream of restraining her like that, and that is what makes this movie so dangerous for autistic people
I think the thing is that they genuinely believe this is helpful, and that it will calm her down. Just goes to show how little research they actually did.
“I’m crushing her with my love”. So damaging, it’s infuriating
Sia once said that she doesn't like doing projects without Maddie which makes me feel like she never even considered casting someone on the spectrum and just lied about doing so to gain some brownie points
also it's kinda ironic that she said she decided to "~stop working with the girl~" (aka fire) because the set was overwhelming. like?? adjust the set for her??
@@eloweez8798 Maybe she feel overhelming because sia made her act exagerate like she do whit madie. Im not good at english, sorry
@@Valsigo that's definitely a possibility
Valeria Silva Or maybe Sia lied and this girl never existed.
@@Jeremy-wp4yh did you watch the video?
I really hope none of y’all are sending hate towards Maddie. She was a 14 year old coerced by many adults to do this.
I think most people agree that none of what Maddie did was her direct fault and it was mostly Sia being creepy and making her play the character
yeah, it's not her fault
message to all the hater and to the author of this shitty video.
Sia has EDS, ehlers danlos syndrome.it s a heavy genetic mutation that makes 80% of our body malfunctioning. it s a very painfyl and disabiliting disease. the mutation impacted our nerves, autonomous system and our brain. but also all the system of the body. for this reason, our community is full of neurodivergent person including autistic person. i m myself on the high verbal functionning spectrum... And Sia is probably also. and our mutation is one of the most painful in the world. she had litteraly suffered in her body to make this movie. and she s concern by neurodivergent syndrom as a large part of our community. and myself. you should be all ashamed of yourself to be so ignorant.
and to the author of this shitty video, shame on you to attack an ally that suffers a lot more than you and share a part of your symptoms. all that to make an easy coins. you are a shameful person more interest to make an easy coins than make proper research.
and the fact that you put some like to some comment that says that Sia is a awful horrible person and that you caution people suggesting that Sia is a pedophile is so disgusting. you are a shame.
coming from someone that is also on the high verbal functionning spectrum:
you are all disgusting human beings. 🤮🤮🤮
@@princeloup5093 having EDS does not excuse someone making a harmful movie promoting false information on Autism. Sia maybe an “ally”, but she should have done more research, and consulted with other people with autism. I don’t think the person that made this video was being a hater. She was giving critiques, which she’s allowed to do. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and she thinks that, as a person who has autism, she believes that the movie is harmful because it’s sending out false info on Autism to her fans and audiences. The person who made this video was pretty respectful as well and didn’t go “🤮🤮🤮”, like you did. Yeah she suffers from EDS, and that’s bad, but putting out a movie making a caricature of people with Autism is bad too.
@@princeloup5093 all my original comment said was don’t hate on Maddie. I agree Sia shouldn’t be harassed, but I still think that her movie should be critiqued (as all movies do). Sia does have EDS, but it doesn’t change the fact that a lot of other people with Autism feel that her movie was putting out false and harmful information and is downright offensive. Most even say that the movie was made for the caregivers, rather than for people with autism. Sia should have known to take her time and be extra careful when making this movie, because as you said, and I agree, there’s no one type of autism. So, she shouldn’t have tried to be “the voice of autism” while portraying one type. This is why many were offended, because it would look like (to audiences who don’t know a lot about autism) that this is how all people with autism behave and that you have to restrain them , and that people with autism are such a bother/inconvenience. Also you’re being a hypocrite saying “you are all disgusting human beings”, I’ve never said one thing bad about anyone, I’ve just stated that the MOVIE is harmful, in fact dangerous.
If Sia said "maybe you're a bad actor" to me, I'd just show her the movie reviews and say "maybe you're a bad director"
prince loup Even if the vision of the director is to make a potentially dangerous, extremely misinformed and poorly written movie about an already misunderstood and heavily demonised disorder for the sole reason of making the director look “woke”? As an autistic person: 🤢
@@princeloup5093 theres a difference between accommodations and changing a film. If you cant even accommodate the disabled people youre trying to represent, you should *not* be representing them.
i'd reply with "i've been acting like i tolerate you this whole time"
TESTIFY BRO!!!
If the (autistic, disabled, black, minority) character can be replaced by a dog (and not the animated type, a real dog) it is a bad representation.
That works as a criterion for sooo many movies.
For example in this film, music could have just been a dog that kazoo had to take care of and had difficulty to. And even dogs have more character.
That’s an interesting comparison. I’ve also heard someone say Music is treated like a “cutesy alien”. And frankly, I’ve written more well-developed, human like aliens than that.
I would pay good money for a dog music movie video. Still, no restraints though. That's just mean.
Marley and me 2: Electric Boogaloo
It's a good comparison, I remember thinking something similar when seeing the first John Wick movie; it really struck me how the story basically treated the protagonist's dog the same way most other movies in the genre treat the female love interest, acting as the emotional motivation plot point for the hero rather than a character with any agency or decision-making. In addition to the Bechdel test, maybe we should use the "can this character be replaced by a beagle" test when movies try to represent women and/or marginalized minorities.
I'm holding every single character I write to this standard from now on.
that clip where they are restraining music is actually sickening. they just get on top of this little girl and hold her down, with the only movement from her flailing arms as she stimms. oof, how did sia, who did all this 'research' on us think that visual was a good idea? that sounds like a nightmare to me!!
Her research was basically holding hands with autism speaks and honestly that alone is enough to explain the way she portrayed autism in the movie. All about how autistic people effect "normal" people and nothing about how "normal" people effect them. It's disgusting.
That's dangerous.
I literally was trying to figure out who the black girl in the thumbnail was the whole time and then it got to the accusations of blackface part and it clicked. They really put dark makeup on her and gave her cornrows and went "there's nothing wrong with this" oml
Those are actually box braids but yeah very bad
That wasn’t a black girl😨
@@silashurd3597 nah it’s Maddie
What makes even less sense is it is only in that one music video, the whole movie Maddie is in the baggy clothes with the 2 braids. For most of the other music videos her hair is out (unless it is like that one where they are in the weird bubble outfits where their hair is covered).
I'm scared about this winning awards, for Sia's inevitable "SEE?!?! You people just didn't GET IT!!!" response.
phew it didnt win. Still awful though.
She doesn't get it though lol. I'll happily let her relive my entire life just so she can see what she did wrong.
@@siohead9021 what movie won (I didnt watch the award show )
@@youtubesfavoriteidot7714 Borat Subsequent Moviefilm
@@QJ89 I dont know, there's definitely a larger issue, but I'm willing to take the tiny win of Music not getting the award
Isn't Anthony Hopkins autistic? He's one of the best actors, ever. She didn't even try.
Anthony Hopkins is autistic?? This is the first time I've heard that.
@@ideasinthegord3915 yeah, he was diagnosed officially in 2014.
One of the actresses from Kill Bill is Autistic
@@MadameCorgi Daryl Hannah :)
@@lisal9488 Also, Dan Ackroyd.
I'm honestly surprised you didn't mention the way maddie smiles in this- the teeth over the bottom lip, an infamously neurodivergent expression that I personally got viciously bullied over. And she smiles "normally" when they make her act neurotypical. It's so boldfacedly cruel toward people who had to force their faces to stop moving that way.
I used to do that all the time, even when not smiling. I didn't realize I did it till my martial arts teacher made fun of me for it and said "that means you're nervous"... I had to force myself to stop. Now I never do it anymore. Still hate that teacher.
@@rokljhui864 I really hope this is sarcasm and not an attempt at going at autistic people. You triflin. Read literally just one or two reputable papers about neurodivergent children if you're serious with this comment.
the first time i saw the screencap of that expression, i cried
@@autistitch I wept tears of blood, for 40 days, oh the shame and injustice.
@@rokljhui864 the Hell's with you? betting you didn't even watch this video and if you did you refused to listen.
i'm sorry, but Sia claiming she didn't know A$ was problematic is THE shittiest lie ever. I mean, I did like 1 week of research and learned it, it's literally impossible to research the basics of autism and not coming across all the controversy. This is so stupid.
i knew people hated autism $peaks before i even knew much about autism itself. almost every account by autistic people about autism will mention it at some point, 9/10 times in a negative light. it's almost like she didn't bother actually listening to autistic people
@@toothfairy10133 Even if you don't much about autism, or even consider autism to be entirely a bad thing to be cured, plenty of orgs that raise money for the diseases Measles Speaks compares autism to, treat people with those conditions with way more respect. Like as individuals who can speak/advocate for themselves not just their family members or doctors.
Eugenics is literally in the google autocomplete results when you look up A$.
If that doesn't set of alarm bells, then I don't know what would
Also even if you somehow didn't find them while researching autism surely you would've researched them when they reached out to you?
1 Week? I learned A$ was a fraud in an hour!
I really dislike the way the film treats stiming as this constant thing that doesn't have meaning. It's a form of expression much like facial expressions. I had a cousin who was basically non verbal and didn't do faces for a long time when he was young but because of his steming it was very easy to read him and connect with him. For example He flaps his hands in a specific way when he's enjoying something and I remember playing with him and pushing him on the swings and even though he couldn't tell me I could still tell he was having just as much fun as I was
THIS! It’s not necessarily that nonverbal autistic people cannot communicate or express themselves, but that they communicate and express themselves in ways that may not be seen as usual and is typically missed by neurotypical people. The double communication barrier theory, that not only do we autistic people have trouble interpretting neurotypical social ques, but neurotypical people can find it hard to interpret ours which leads to misunderstanding and frustration.
You sharing how heartwarming your relationship with your cousin made my day! Thank you!
Yeah! It also helps us regulate our emotions, which is why it's in my legs when I'm excited or in my face/neck/shoulders when I'm uncomfortable.
YESSSSSS! I flap my hands when I'm happy and screech when I'm stressed, so the math teacher hates me because I screech at stress
I also make humming sounds when I'm happy sometimes, another reason my math teacher hates me
I wrote a character who shakes one hand if she's nervous or anxious, two hands if she's happy or excited. I actually didn't know there were people who did that exact stimming until I read your comment.
For me, the overbite kills it, immediately. Nothing wrong with having an overbite or an overjet. But Maddie Ziegler doesn't have one, so it's a put-on. How many people have you seen making that exact face to make fun of neurodivergent people or people with mental disabilities? Seriously, with all the talk of "research" and "sensitivity," who seriously thought that was a good choice? This is why I can't buy that this was a good faith attempt at fair representation.
Edit: spelling correction
It made me want to scream so ridiculous!
Thank you. For some reason I couldn't put my finger on it until you said it.
Also the facial expressions not relating to that are so forced, like how wide her eyes are.
Trueeee! Especially as autism is a disorder that affects the brain, not the body. I know two autistic kids who look absolutly normal. Of course there are some autistic people with overbite, but I bet she included the overbite just to mock.
@@halfbloodprincess989 I’ve seen it said that as a condition that is largely genetic in nature, it does affect the body in terms of things like increased likelihood of intestinal issues and hyper mobility of the joints; the context was someone saying doctors should educate themselves to know how to adjust their treatment of autistic people better with the medical knowledge that autism is correlated with certain things like that.
But yes, those things are not outwardly visible; autism often isn’t.
I hate that “I’m not climbing on top of a small screaming white girl in the middle of this park” made me genuinely chuckle
@violets are purple not blue you twat agreed
They be throwing that BLM-ish joke thing
@@mysryuzaI CAN’T BREAAATHEEE
@@skeboopbawp5192 uh 🧍🏾♀️
With all that Sia has gone through in her life she could have easily made a movie about abuse, neglect, depression, and addiction that was genuine, but instead she makes a movie about something she seems to know little about. I wish she had taken her life inspiration that she uses for her music to make a movie about what she has been through.
But if she doesn't make a movie about a disabled person, how will she get that Golden Globe?
I honestly believe that Sia made Music to try and win awards. Music has Oscar Bait film written all over it. She wasn't trying to draw awareness and understanding to people with Autism with Music, she saw it as a chance to win awards.
Sia seems to need some help...
@@loki1456 but the thing is she has bipolar! She could have made a movie above disability!
@@Saturnm0ss she could even have made a movie about autism. like, people can make media about autism, that's fine, it's just bad. if the movie had been good, nobody would've been upset
@@Saturnm0ss I saw her say that the bipolar was a misdiagnosis and it was really PTSD (this was around the time that the movie came out). These days she now says that she has received an autism diagnosis but even that she said that she was diagnosed on the autism spectrum iirc
The trend of Hollywood making movies about marginalized people, while not involving those people, needs to end. Especially when they love to pat themselves on the back for "good portrayals". What's your take on conservative groups portraying themselves as "autism-positive groups", like the National Council on Severe Autism?
Especially nowadays. It's so easy to reach out to literally any community to get firsthand accounts and gain knowledge. To do anything less in the internet age is the height of laziness.
i don’t trust anyone who’s non autistic and talks about “severe autism”.
My son has found community with the Autistic self advocacy network. If that helps.
Nothing about us without us.
I dunno. I've never seen my experience portrayed. A few renditions sure. But never me or even close to me. That is my only solace.
This film has both Magical N**** and Magical Autistic Fairy, and their only purpose is to help Kazoo get her life together
I’m screaming
The restraint scene is really repulsive. I had heard about that scene before, but I have never seen it. The way she was "acting out" was emberassing at the most, she was not endangering anyone, she wasn't even disruptive to anything.
The implication is that whenever an autistic person acts odd in public, they need to be physically subdued. That's fucking horrifying. It says: "Be a normal person in the way that we define the word normal, or we will use force against you." Incredibly disgusting shit....
I mean, that point has been proven through my experiences. Any time I've attempted to communicate that I'm overwhelmed and need space, I've ended up yelling. And for my unlucky 7 year old self, it meant being carried/dragged out the door to an abusive school counselor. Hell, I've still been restrained when communicating properly. Still doesn't make the scene okay though
@@Vixemint Jesus Christ...that’s so incredibly unfair and sounds traumatizing
@@w.lester255 It was, but I luckily remember very little of the first occasion, which was probably the worst.
That's how real life works too, unfortunately. Violence and force are the tools that "normal" people use to combat the idea that humans can be different from them.
@@Vixemint Well, I’m glad in that case - maybe I’m overreacting since it didn’t happen to me! And I should leave the emoting to you, if there’s any to be done. It’s cool that you were able to go through that and come out of it.
I liked this video for the most part, but I do feel like in some moments you were maybe a little too unbiased? Autism Speaks is objectively a bad organisation. The few good things they have done for people do not outweigh the damage they have done over the past decade and a bit, and the damage they still continue to do to this day. Anything good Autism Speaks have done for people can be done by a different organisation, who doesn't demonise autism and seek to cure us. Your unbiased nature in this scenario doesn't reinforce the genuine harm that autism Speaks does, and might mislead people into thinking Autism Speaks "isn't that bad" and not educate themselves
agreed. I had to stop watching when they didn't mention A$ is considered a hate group by the Autistic community.
Yeah, it's like saying pita is controversial, instead of admitting that they believe all animals would be better off dead
I will give Jessie that she showed one of the ads though, you get a pretty good indication of where they fall from that.
Anyone else think that Sia and Maddie's relationship is a little...grooming-y?
It's super groomy- they like share a bed - and sia talks about being maddie's "other mom"
@@lissaquon607 shit really? I knew about the weird second mom thing, but deffo not the sleeping in the same bed thing. That's some Michael Jackson shit
Yes
@@lissaquon607 “other mom” ???
*NOPENOPENOPENOPE*
@@lissaquon607 Really? That’s so disgusting and ever the more creepier, what the hell
there is so much to be said about this, along with Sia's relationship with Maddie. there's something really disturbing about a woman who made her career on not showing her face and not 'being famous' only to pluck a talented, beautiful, young child to take her place along with the damage for her instead.
As far as the autistic portrayal and issues- you covered it so well and I will be recommending this video to folks who have been ignorant about "the big deal" about MUSIC. Love your earrings too :D
I agree with you. Maybe Maddie didnt want to become world famous, but she was a child that didnt have her rights.
Its really weird how Sia put this child in the spotlight instead of herself.
Between Abby Lee Miller and Sia, Maddie really has questionable relationships with adults. That isn’t her fault, as she was a child. But adults seem to latch onto her as her muse abs it’s honestly really unhealthy.
*and
@@shamidkpzd yes, back in my day child stars were exploited too but by a manager or parents behind the scenes, these days with RUclips, reality tv etc Theres even more scope for everyday kids to be catapulted to success and exploited by so many more parties.
Can you do a similar analysis of the Girl Meets World episode where Farkle gets evaluated for autism and his friends act like it's the most horrible possible thing they could ever hear? Like... his friends trying to make him repress potentially autistic traits and then everyone being so relieved when it turns out he's not autistic....
I liked that show up until I learned about that episode... it's really harmful.
Oh my gosh! I hated that episode. It was actually before I even knew that I was Autistic, but it just felt so off to me.
Yess I remember being so confused about that episode before I even knew what autism was! 12yo me thought "why would he be that upset about his possible diagnosis?? If he's apparently lived with it his entire life unknowingly, wouldn't it just be a relief to know more about yourself?" They acted like he was getting tested for some sort of terminal disease... I'd love to see Jessie touch on that episode!
@@kai_fatallysapphic Yeah, for sure that's what should have happened. When I was diagnosed with anxiety, depression, and ADD I felt a lot better, knowing that there were other people who are going through what I am. I'm sure it's the same for teens/adults who get diagnosed with autism (I don't know since my boyfriend and online friends were diagnosed at young ages)
I liked that show until I saw that episode. Thinking about it fills me with rage. This whole thing by Sia fills me with rage. Just because I’m autistic doesn’t mean I’m not a freaking human being. It doesn’t make any of us less human. If I had the power, I’d make Sia disappear, and anyone who treats autism like it’s some horrible affliction.
@@kai_fatallysapphic I felt better when I learned I had autism! Because I remember pleading to my parents to get me to see a doctor because I felt there was something wrong with me, and I wanted help. Problem is, I was diagnosed way too late. I feel like a lot of the issues I have now and had during school would’ve been treated better if I was diagnosed earlier in life. I did end up getting help, but the people who helped me didn’t seem to understand me at all either. I have nightmares about school because of how bad it was for me. But apparently my stupid old family doctor refused to believe I had autism.
I love the bisexual lighting in this
Same 😊✨💙💜❤️
Bi lighting best lighting
Y e s
Best colors💖💜💙
Yass bi
it really makes me sick that the Golden Globes are nominating this.
My guess is Sia’s team payed the Hollywood foreign Press a lot of money. Golden globes are known for their bribing for nominations.
@@yvette4948 And considering how political/corrupt awards shows tend to be for their purported standards of extolling excellence, that is saying something.
Hollywood Foreign Press is corrupted as hell. Look it up.
The Globes have been corrupt for forever.
I suspect it’s over, though. I doubt there will be any kind of Oscar nod. It sucks that it was nominated (likely from money being transferred under the table), but it won nothing.
Another thing about Maddie Ziegler and Sia is the relationship is kinda creepy when you look into it. Like there's a 27 year age gap and they "snuggle" and it's common enough that Zeigler's Mother makes casual comments about it. It just rubs me the wrong way, especially considering the major power imbalance.
And how is seen as cute when the media would’ve gone haywire if it was a guy and a girl. Not that it isn’t bad but how isn’t any press concerned over the adult woman obsessed over a girl
Yeah, not liking this!!
Yeah, no one takes it seriously cause Sia is a woman but in reality it's wildly inappropriate
I’d also like to note that Sia is bisexual and attracted to women, so her “snuggling” with a literal child and obsessing over her is just as creepy as a straight man doing the same. 😰
I’d like to add to this and say I myself am bisexual and I don’t mean to sound like I’m saying we bisexual people are predators.
Sia learning that she is autistic recently, doesn't erase the harm that she caused.
In some ways, it makes it worse
What I understand from all the art Sia has put out over the years, there is always this "duality" that she wants to express. Her "inner child" vs her depression and the relationship between them. Like in the music video of Elastic Heart. It's clear that Kazoo is meant to symbolise her front, her adult side and Music is (as her name suggests) her passion for life. That's why the movie is really about Kazoo and her struggle with Music. Autism is just an excuse Sia came up with to justify Music's personality. Music could have just been an imaginary being and nothing would have changed. We have all seen that Sia made Maddie use similar expressions in her other music videos like The Greatest, Chandelier etc. And in public they present with the same wig seeming as Big Sia and Little Sia. She projects onto Maddie in a weird way like she uses Maddie to symbolise her "free spirit" that resides beneath the exterior. She uses the caricaturistic expressions and dance moves as an aesthetic, ignorant of the fact that these expressions are often made by non-disabled people to make fun of people with Autism. Maddie was an actual child when she was cast in this permanent role as Sia's "inner child", it is concerning.
I never considered this, but you're actually right there...
I agree with this very much… she’s telling the world that she made the movie portraying the behavior of an autistic character yet she honestly made the movie and character “Music” to describe her personality and so on about herself. The movie wasn’t to represent the autistic community but for herself. Because if it was and she unknowingly made a mistake then realized later that she offended the autistic community then she could have apologized and put it down instead of trying to justify her actions and attacking people who are just giving honest criticism at how offensive and what she did wrong with the movie.🙃
Oh, she's a secret genius. That definitely excuses using the entire autistic community as a prop/decoration. If she's a genius she's allowed to be a horrible person.
What's your interpretation of her grooming Maddie? Is that okay too?
@@mnschoen He said the opposite ? What the hell are you on ?
@@mnschoen I think the original comment was criticizing Sia for narcississtically making the project about herself without considering how offensive it might be to autistic people. They're not saying that what she did was a genius artistic move.
"I'm not saying Sia is a bad person."
That's cool, I will. Sia is a bad person.
LOL
same. Sia is self serving to the point where she would rather silence the same people that she claimed to give a voice to than actually listen to the voices that she claimed she wanted to amplify. If that's not a major sign of a person being bad idk what is
If sia is a bad person then the threshold is so extremely low there is no such thing as a good person.
In the grand scheme of things this whole situation is just messy more so than bad.
It was bad enough when she sang 'Alive,' but this takes the Cake!
She doesn't care about anything except for clout. She clearly did this to seem like some kind of hero but she doesn't even see people on the spectrum as, well, people.
My cousin (autistic and was nonverbal until he was about 8): Is this what it's like when they make movie about trans people?
Me (a trans man): In that it's usually a bunch of insulting stereotypes? Yeah.
:)
autistic-trans solidarity in the house tonight
:>
@@toothfairy10133 Me, who's trans and autistic: Am I the house?
I like to think that we're getting better on both fronts. Trans rep is definitely improving, and autistic rep... well, we have ROTTMNT and Heartbreak High, that's all that matters.
I honestly worry about Maddie. Sia's relationship with her makes me very uncomfortable and hits all of the "creep/grooming" alarm bells. I hate this film with a passion as in my opinion, it IS a mockery of me and all others who are autistic. I do not blame Maddie. She's still very young and even expressed her discomfort in taking the role. Sia is the one responsible for the awful portrayl and horrible stereotypes.
Edit: thank you so much for the sensory and trigger warnings.
message to all the hater and to the author of this shitty video.
Sia has EDS, ehlers danlos syndrome.it s a heavy genetic mutation that makes 80% of our body malfunctioning. it s a very painfyl and disabiliting disease. the mutation impacted our nerves, autonomous system and our brain. but also all the system of the body. for this reason, our community is full of neurodivergent person including autistic person. i m myself on the high verbal functionning spectrum... And Sia is probably also. and our mutation is one of the most painful in the world. she had litteraly suffered in her body to make this movie. and she s concern by neurodivergent syndrom as a large part of our community. and myself. you should be all ashamed of yourself to be so ignorant.
and to the author of this shitty video, shame on you to attack an ally that suffers a lot more than you and share a part of your symptoms. all that to make an easy coins. you are a shameful person more interest to make an easy coins than make proper research.
and the fact that you put some like to some comment that says that Sia is a awful horrible person and that you caution people suggesting that Sia is a pedophile is so disgusting. you are a shame.
coming from someone that is also on the high verbal functionning spectrum:
you are all disgusting human beings. 🤮🤮🤮
Right? If Sia was male people would be very cincerned and Maddie would have been rescued by now
So true!
@@princeloup5093 What a ridiculous take you have just made: just because Sia has EDS ( *you* are saying she may also be neuroatypical, but nothing is for sure and I doubt she wouldn't have said it considering the backlash she had for the movie) that doesn't make her an expert on any other type of condition or being on the autistic spectrum, the same way being autistic doesn't give you an authority on physical disabilities. Conversely, all the criticism that Sia is receiving is based on the movie and her response to people pointing out its issues.
Besides, what do you know about the person of the video saying " Sia suffers more than you"? Are we doing a competition on which person suffers more and in which way?
@@franknstein5376 He's a narcissist. Narcissists always compare how they suffer with how others suffer because everything is a competition.
That was really odd how in the interview one second Sia was "tearing up" when talking about Maddie crying and being vulnerable, but then in like 2 nanoseconds she switched to this superior "I am the savior" demeanor and said "I'll protect you." She must have a God complex thinking she's the messiah of all people
I honestly thought she was mocking Maddie's crying, like Sia thought her worries were silly
@@kai_fatallysapphic that’s what I thought too. Sia doesn’t care about how autistic people feel, she doesn’t take us seriously or see us as people with real thoughts and feelings that matter just as much as neurotypical people.
So when Maddie worries about how autistic people would feel, Sia sees that as silly because she fundamentally doesn’t think autistic people, or their opinions, matter.
So she mocked Maddie because Maddie does care about autistic people, and Sia thinks that’s ridiculous.
She thought it was stupid that Maddie cared, so it was easy to mock this little girl, who was so terrified she’d hurt people that she was crying and asking for reassurance, because Sia doesn’t take her seriously either.
She didn’t care that Maddie was upset, she only cares about herself, so instead of showing sympathy for this girl she apparently cares so much about, she ridicules her and her feelings because her feelings were getting in the way of this shit film Sia wanted to make.
I also found it weird, to the point I doubled back to see if I had heard her right. Like I found it so weird that I was sure I miss heard what she was saying but nope, instead of just quoting Maddie she decided to "act" Maddie
Considering she adopted a young African man after seeing him in a TV documentary and deciding she was his mother, I'm inclined to agree. She has quite the white saviour complex.
@@mimimusick9734 She actually adopted 2 Black 18 year old males in 2019 as they were aging out of the system. I go for white saviour complex too seeing as she randomly brought it up once or twice and said that she got them both into intensive therapy to help the deal with everything that they have been through. She also said that one was doing better than the other. Totally separately she has said that they younger of the 2 has made her a grandmother by becoming a father at the age of 19. She doesn't mention actually seeing her sons or grandchildren, just that she is excited that she is now also a grandmother. Those articles are a couple of years old now so I hope those kids are doing well for themselves.
Even more telling for the white saviour complex is that Sia has said that she didn't realise how much racism there is until she saw what her sons have to go through on a daily basis. I know that as a white person I can only intellectually understand it, doesn't mean that I don't already know that this shit happens though.
I felt like I was being called the R slur for an hour and 47 minutes straight.
Ah yes redbull
These aren’t funny...
[ Skipperdoodles32 ] ❄️
@@rainearnstowski7049 Weak.
I'm autistic too, for your information.
Let me know if any of you are.
Sia definitely shows signs of the saviour complex, needing to fix/save/protect, and from my understanding of psychology, it's highly codependant and comes from a person not wanting to face themselves and their own issues.
Maybe subconsciously Maddy represents a young Sia to her, and if she can protect her, she can feel better about the trauma she's been through in her life.
A classic case of trying to heal yourself through fixing another. Which never works.
If anything ever happened to Maddy, I think it would destroy sia....shes become a lifeline/supply.
Sia is a narcissist.
I'm still stuck on the "we watched movies for research". That's like doing a book report for Taming of the Shrew by watching Ten Things I Hate About You. Did they actually talk to autistic people or just attempt to mimic them?
Yeah, this was the first I heard of it and I'm starting to see how doing "research" managed to not include learning about autism speaks...
You can't "research" autism by watching movies when there's no good portrals of autistic people in film
@@rattyeely Exactly. The only role that films should take in your research would be looking at what autistic people had to say about those portrayals.
Exactly this! I was thinking, "well clearly someone doesn't know shit about what research actually involves." 😒
Yes, that made me question the "research" too.
I can't believe the CW's show Crazy Ex-Girlfriend handles expressing emotions through non-diagetic music videos and neurodivergency better than a relatively high budget movie with allegedly 3 years of research behind it.
(I absolutely love CXG but its very funny to me that a CW show with musical parodies did a better job than a golden globe nominee)
Goes to show that money isn't and should never be considered to be a true replacement for actual care.
I also have BPD as well and people with borderline usually point to that show as a good portrayal of BPD which typically never happens.
@@Nakam459 it was a show that was done with love, respect and compassion, while still being able to draw out the humour that so many of us ND folks find in ourselves. It wasn't done in a mean-spirited, mocking way, and it really shows. We're so often dehumanised, and CXG is nothing if not an intensely human story.
That's because both Rachel and Alina knew what they're doing and tried to approach the heavier topics with respect.
Also, Rachel, Jack and Adam are musical geniuses
@@Nakam459 SAME. I cried so hard when the show ended because it was the first time I felt television gave us a character we could realistically relate to. It was the first time a show made me feel normal and like I should be respected. Normally BPD is portrayed as scary stalkers or serial killers or the crazy bitch - no humanizing at all. I just wish more people would watch CXG or more shows would follow their lead of normalizing mental illness.
if melanie martinez can cast a transgender woman to play a cis role, then im sure it wouldn't be so hard for sia to at least do her research by talking to, or casting autistic people.
Not forgetting that she also got a trans woman to play Miss Harper, a trans woman.
@@popsicko6493 woah thats so cool i didbt know miss harper was trans too
@ because it's not their struggle to portray, like in this film
@@kathleen5798 Well since it apparently matters if someone personally experiences the topic of a film then a trans person doesn't know what it's like to be cis therefore they can't play cis characters
@ as a cisgender person, i have no struggles whatsoever with being a girl, but trans people do
So, a youtuber who I generally enjoy watching from time to time is Todd in The Shadows. His vids might not be for everyone, but generally speaking I enjoy seeing his takes on popular music and I particularly like his sense of humor. But a video of his that sticks out to me in particular is the second part of his top ten worst hit songs of 2018. Not because he expresses any opinion in it that I'm super passionate about, I actually disagree with some of his choices, especially his honorable mentions for that year, I actually enjoyed a few of those quite a bit. But one part from that section of the video that really stood out to me in particular was when he listed a song by Maroon 5, and the only justification he provided for listing it was the short yet biting quote "Fuck you Maroon 5. You suck." only to move onto the next honorable mention. I didn't hate that song all that much either, but I did find his delivery incredibly funny. But unexpectedly, for me at least, that was not the last time Maroon 5 would make the list. They would then go on to top the whole thing off at number one, with their song "Girls Like You". And upon introducing it, Todd delivers a redux of his line in the most painfully slow and defeated tone possible. "Fuck you, Maroon 5. You. Suck." And ever since the first time I saw that video, that part has always stuck with me, because it so perfectly encapsulates how I feel about certain things, be they poor artistic efforts, offensive social trends, or even shitty people like malevolent politicians and corrupt public figures. It really speaks to the venom that you feel for something so bad or wrong that it essentially just deserves to be forgotten and left behind as if it never existed in the first place.
Anyway, that's Music. Fuck you Sia. You suck.
Didn't Todd also do a review of Music?
This is my first time seeing Maddie’s performance and...oof...just oof...
I cringed. I don't mean that in the internet slang way either, I actually felt it in my stomach.
Maddie was 14 at the time, but I can't believe Sia thought this was a good idea.
As a black disabled woman, it very much felt like a minstrel show...
It really says something when Rain Man came out 33 years ago and the portrayal of this marginalized community hasn't improved in the LEAST.
The problem is that Maddie's strong suit has always been how expressive her prefomance is. It what makes her dancing good ( i like sia... The musician) . This backfires while trying to play something stereotypical turning it into a quasi minstrel prefomance
Maddie herself didn’t want to do this performance because she thought it was making fun of autistic people, but because she was a child, she was forced to do it by Sia and her mother. Apparently she cried on set very often.
I think the way that Maddie’s “stimming” is perceived by the other characters is undoubtedly the influence of Autism Speaks being consulted for the creation of this movie, sadly.
I’m not even autistic, but I AM disabled and neurodivergent. This movie makes me feel like I’m being mocked and it makes me feel physically sick whenever even a short clip of it gets played. Sia has absolutely disgraced herself with this one as far as I’m concerned
Why do you feel mocked?
@@Skinnymarks it portrays disabilities and neurodivergency (not just autism) as something bad, as something that needs to be fixed, and it does it in the most disrespectful and inaccurate way possible.
Hey, what is the difference between autism and neurodivergence? I tried googling it but couldn't find anything.
@@phieillydinyia Neurodiversity is the view that neurological conditions are just variations instead of illnesses, thus don't need to be "cured". Autism is just one type of neurodivergence. There are many others e.g. ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, tourette syndrome. If you have a type of learning/developmental disorder then you're neurodivergent, although neurodivergence isn't limited to learning/developmental disorders.
@@K_H_P_ thank you, that helped!
I would've rewritten Music as follows:
Music is an autistic non-verbal teen whose older sister (a 20 year old who has enough money from her job to support Music and herself) takes her in so Music can go to a musical academy that she put all her time/effort to attent. Her sister is reluctant as she finds her estranged sister 'weird'. Music struggles communicating at the academy, buf gets superb grades. In her thoughs, Music thinks her sister hates her musical dream and wishes she'd drop out of the school, until she hears her singing along to Music's songs at home while cooking. Music and her sister grow closer as siblings and Music becomes more comfortable in her own skin as an autistic girl.
I love this. It would be so, so much better than the actual movie.
Also have it be where 'music' is a nickname the sister gives her because that was the word she'd say the most at home, and it kinda just stuck around
Or, you could have just burned all the film reels
Go work as a screen writer. You're missing your calling!
even just reading this, i got such a fuzzy feeling when you described her sister singing along to music's songs
I'm a bit scared for Maddie now. That clip about crying sounds immensely manipulative for me. Maddie will have a nasty fall some day I feel.
The worst part is this theoretical downfall (in theory) wouldn't be Maddie's fault. It would be Melissa (Maddie's mom) for practically selling her daughter to Hollywood, and Sia's fault for taking advantage of Maddie's naivety
@@internetlexi I really hope Mackenzie, the little sister, is doing well and not suffer like her sister.
Well, she's also gonna be in West Side Story this winter, so there's hope she can revive her career with that.
Maddie was on dance moms. She's already had extreme manipulation normalized. Hollywood should scare you in general.
This movie looking at autism as something that can be "cured" really makes sense since she got all her info from Autism Speaks.
nowhere autism is presented as something that could or should cured in this movie.
I agree it shouldn’t be cured. It is a part of someone. I am not saying I’d wish my kid would have it but it doesn’t need to be “fixed”. I would still love them the same. They are people and they are not lesser
Cure or kill
That’s the Autism Speaks motto
@@princeloup5093 As the character grows and reaches their dramatic resolution, their (caricatured) autistic traits disappear.
But sure - presenting the removal of the characteristics of a neurology in a positive light is totally not a suggestion that you would be better off without them.
@ The same logic justified the chemical castration of gay men in the early 20th Century.
Definitions of disability change as bigotry retreats.
I'm autistic and the main thing offending me is the main character's names being "Kazoo" and "Music"
I keep wondering if their parents hated them or something...
she really thought banjo kazooie was an inspirational tale lmao
LMAO SAME
This movie has pretty much ruined the word "music" for autistic people considering how interested in music we can be.
@@aussieman3021 please don’t let anything ruin the word music for you :)
I laughed alot with the Cynical Review analysis, which was more scenario oriented, as he isn't someone on the autistic spectrum. Seeing your POV makes me realize more how fucked up this movie is for an autistic audience. Like he raised some points you explain more (like the Sia Maddie relationship...) but the fact that it made people feel ashamed believing they see how other people "see" them makes me actually sad.
I am autistic and I am against Autism Speaks. Definitively and for reasons I can’t state or else have my comment automatically deleted by the censorship bot. Let’s just say they cause more harm than good.
What advocacy organization would you recommend? I have been involved with Autism Speaks are so are high profile. The commercial Jessie played definitely changed my mind about the organization though.
@@jojoone1099 autism self advocacy network (asan)
@@anthonykerr3509
Thank you so much! I'll look into it.
@@jojoone1099 definitely ASAN
@@The_Gnome_Chomskee
I looked into their projects and joined as a member. They seem very positive and active. I think that people I know will benefit from the resources and info I get from them. I appreciate y'all. Great info!
I'm really confused why Music is smiling while having a meltdown bad enough to self harm. That is just so bizarre to me and that scene bothers me. They really paint this character like she's entirely incompetent and unaware. If music was that stressed and overstimulated that she'd start having tics and hurting herself, she's probably going to be crying like most of us do because she's a person.
Yeah, that shit was creepy.
I'm pretty sure I'm not autistic, but I definitely noticed it was weird for her to smile creepily while being restrained. Not a great scene at all.
This scene was pretty triggering to me (I thought I was able to handle it) so I didn't pay attention to details. Now that you've pointed it out, I realize how unrealistic it is
I personally giggle and smile when my self destructive impulses are triggered to an extreme point. However, I'm not diagnosed with autism and my smiling is likely a coping mechanism that I developed as a way to stop myself from crying since growing up I learned that me crying makes people get mad at me. However, even if that was something that Sia meant to portray (which would be me giving her waaaay too much credit considering how shitty of a person she apparently is) it was done really badly since a smile triggered by negative emotions looks very differently from a happiness induced smile/laughter
@@miglek9613 I have aspergers and when I have ticks where I hurt myself and can't stop it I have started laughing about it because I just get more exhausted if I start to get scared and cry
Whenever you choose to "speak for someone" in your art, you should always consider if you actually know what they would want to say, and if anyone else is better equipped to say it for them. If you get angry that these people are speaking up....then the art was never about them, it was just about you.
Honestly a lot of people do see us as something that needs to be "took care of", "fixed" or we are "Put away" for whatever that means. I have been in homes for Autistic people who are profoundly affected and it is so sad. They are just left. Being someone who is diagnosed at 14 with autism in the Early 90's it's obvious that things have not changed much.
off topic but the bisexual colouring in this is my LIFE, thank you
Even the smallest representation matters to us, thank you!!
I’m autistic and I’ve been fighting against this film since the trailer came out. I don’t care about whether she had good intentions which even I question, the portrayal is what matters. And the fact that Sia fans and neurotypicals seem to think that they know better when they don’t and attack autistics including me. The restraint scenes trigger my trauma, the portrayal is bad, and even though I haven’t scene the film, the movie should most certainly, undoubtedly, be pulled.
To quote a largely forgotten music critic: "The Sia I know is dead. _Dead!"_
I think it's really important/ effective that you express your thoughts as you have. I have many friends and family that are or I suspect are autistic, and I care for them the same. However, I'm human, and was born into a...flawed (to say the least) system. And to be honest, most of my real life people arent quite... I dunno, open? The same way i bare more of my soul to the internet than anyone i know in real life?
I just... I'm maybe not typical, but for me, excellent thoughts and commentary, mostly of self described but not famous autists, have really helped me just... understand?
You know honestly, I didn't really find out about autism until I was older, though looking back I think I had a few friends. I dont think they knew either though and that was probably hard.
Anyways, I just... even in the last several years, the amount of nueroatypical people I've interacted with online, that's really what made me fully understand.
I know it sounds... silly or like it's too much but people with opinions deserve to be heard. And my mind was shifted because of autistic people owning it, and then saying something. I feel stupid. You just dont know what influence you are having, basically ever. Just keep being you and maybe keep letting people know because it actually does help. Maybe someday I can practice what I preach :)
I'm not autistic but I babysit a little boy who is. I watched the music video that was released and all the flashing lights and colors would've been a sensory overload for him. it's almost like mocking the community, a movie that's focused on them but many can't even watch it.
Absolutely. It's not about if an intention was meant to be well meaning. It's about the delivery of the intention. People have to be accountable for how they communicate their ideas. I'm not autistic, but I'm not neurotypical as I live with ADHD. And I can only imagine how angry this would make the community. Like, she's neurotypical, she has no idea. 😑
@@elaine901 I'm sorry, isn't this communication good or ideal?
The saddest part of this is that this movie may have poisoned the well for other movies about Autism down the road. Can you imagine what an Autistic director- or, better yet, a mostly Autistic creative team- would have done on this budget? Especially if someone higher up had their back and encouraged them to double-down on their artistic ambitions? Imagine.
"I'm not here to definitively say that you should hate Autism Speaks" Okay, I will.
I'm gonna be honest: I really think that good neurotypical actors can play autistic characters. For example, Billy Cranston in the 2017 Power Rangers movie is autistic and is genuinely the best autistic representation I've ever seen in a blockbuster film, but is played by RJ Cyler (who afaik is neurotypical). The big difference to me, though, is that Power Rangers (2017) doesn't make Billy's story about him being autistic. It's a part of his character, but not his story focus. But in Music, the story is all about this autistic girl. That's when, in my opinion, autistic characters should be played by autistic actors - when the story is about them being autistic.
I totally get you, it requires a combination of really good writing, research and good acting to portray an autistic character as a non-autistic person and I DO believe it is possible… but of course this movie flops in that regard. Maddie tried her best but honestly she wasn’t comfortable in this role and you can tell. She shouldn’t have been forced into it.
they can but it will never seem a 100% natural and so many autistic people want to play as an autistic character and don't get the chance to. That's the problem to me.
Billy Cranston is probably the most empowering, yet nuanced autistic representation I've ever seen, (ftr, I am autistic). From the second he was on screen he showed subtle traditional tells and I could tell immediately he was autistic. When he said he was on the spectrum as just a part of conversation, I was trying to keep from howling with delight. He over shares, he tries his best but he doesn't get minute social cues, but he's portrayed as the most heroic of the lot. He brings the team together as it's heart. He's the first one to figure out his powers, and that. That was the moment where Power Rangers 2017 became one of my favorite movies ever.
I'm glad this video mentioned "Please Stand By." I'd never seen it yet somehow, Fanning near exactly replicated how I walk through bright and dusty California neighborhoods. It felt as if the actor was undiagnosed and had just dropped the mask for the role - and that got me thinking, how often does that happen? Plenty of autistic people have succeeded in film and only been diagnosed afterwards.
That's a great way to put it!
by three years of "research" she means that she read one minute of wikipedia everyday for three years
I don’t even thinks THAT’S true. I’m sure anyone would learn any subject more deeply using that strategy than Sia has.
Honestly when I found out I was autistic it took me less than a day of research to discover that Autism Speaks is harmful because I was doing my research directly within the autism community. I seriously doubt Sia even considered going to the autism community for help.
@@emilylizotte9793 that'd require her seeing us as people, and she clearly doesn't.
Dakota Fanning definitely did a good job at portraying hyperfixation. I relate to the world through specific media as well and, similar to her character, often get shut down by people uninterested in said media. which sucks so much because I just wanna talk about it all the time
Wait... so that's a neurodivergent thing. I'm ND but I didn't realize that I did this until you pointed it out. I'm so foreign to the world around me even when I listen carefully and pay attention to what others are saying, so I can only relate to others in terms of "they remind me of this character from (current obsession)" or "they'd be this archetype if they were in a show", which often annoys them unless they're a bit like me. It's not that I try to simplify their personality or call them plain, in fact, it's my way of saying that they have layers to them and they can develop and blossom just like their characters. It's a compliment. But of course, they don't know that and they get upset really quickly. :/
Also, I always end up talking about things I'm interested in all the time, even if I try not to. It's like, we're having a normal conversation, and suddenly *throws in a reference from the show that nobody gets* or "oh this reminds me of (x thing from the show)", and it annoys them because they don't get it, they think I'm manipulating them to watch the show or something when I'm not lol
Yeah I have ADHD and I've found that hyperfixations were always a big part of my life before I found out I was ND... If I'm obsessed with something and start hyperfixating on it it's like I build my whole life around it and it's always at the front or back of my mind whether I like it or not. And often it's all I wanna talk about but I know people have always been annoyed when I express that so I feel pretty rejected.
i also think she nailed like, the amount of calculating and conscious effort that goes into every minute decision you make. that scene where she was going off about rewriting the essay really hit home for me lol
I think it's abundantly clear now why I was never diagnosed as being autistic as a child. That autism speaks commercial is scary. Now I'm having to deal with the revelation of how badly I was treated out of hatred and fear. Pursuing formal diagnosis still but I think things are pretty clear to me who I am. I'm not a problem, I'm a person. Had I had more support as a child I wouldn't have half the trauma from growing up basically lied to out of fear. Hell I probably would have realized who I was had the negative stereotypes and lack of awareness not been obscuring what I had to dig everywhere for. I just have so many feelings.
My parents were convinced that almost every condition could be treated at home with the go-ahead of a doctor. It helped me in some situations- my doctors always comment on how prepared I am and I was able to get diagnosed with POTS at a young age and manage it well enough, but it also led to me never getting diagnosed with anything. I'm not sure if I have ASD, ADHD, or both, but I've always had problems with making eye contact, behaving in class (I visibly stimmed and I could never figure out when to stop talking- I was smart enough to finish my work fast enough to talk), and understanding things like sarcasm. I got an informal ASD diagnosis when I was 14- basically a LCSW responded with a "yeah probably but what are you going to do with it now, undergo ABA?" Before then, I just got bullied for visibly stimming enough for me to switch to more covert things like wiggling my toes and talking with my hands (knitting in public has been a godsend, really). My mom taught me some workarounds like staring at people's foreheads to simulate eye contact and threw the etiquette book at me so I have an idea of how to script interactions and not make an ass of myself most of the time. I don't really know how to feel. I feel like I ought to get diagnosed for ADHD at least because I'm reaching the boiling point of my procrastination issues in college, but it's tough going against the mentality my parents instilled in me (though they even support this!). And in recent years one of my younger cousins got diagnosed with ASD and POTS, too, and I mourn for her and my past self. She's either higher needs or ABA is setting her up for failure by making her all-or-nothing when it comes to "acting normal" (very well could be both). I want to interact with her more, but her mother hates my mom and me by extension. This is a full on rant, sorry.
I feel the exact same way as a feminine presenting individual!
I'm sorry you've had a similar experience 💕
Same, the doctors were willing to diagnose me with *every other* condition possible, from OCD, Generalized, Anxiety, ADHD, and audio-processing disorder. But nooooo~, my complete inability to understand social cues to the point I had _no_ friends and struggles with verbal expression to the point that I had to go through years of speech therapy _couldn't_ be autism. I had high test scores, and wasn't "mentally retarded" enough to be labled that. That was twenty years ago. Even now, the way autism is understood is still quite frankly is *terrible.*
@@idk-ill-figure-smn-outcompletely understand what you mean. I learned to mask at a young age and since I got really good grades, no one noticed that I was actually struggling. I was diagnosed with dyslexia, OCD, major depressive disorder, social anxiety, sensory processing disorder, etc. etc but was never even screened for autism. Now that I’ve been diagnosed as an adult, a lot of things from my childhood makes sense. I still haven’t told anyone (except my husband) about my diagnosis because I doubt I would get much understanding and it would only make people look at me even more differently than they already do. There’s so much stereotyping with autism!
I'm embarrassed that I just googled if sia and Jojo sia are the same person. It's Jojo Siwa. I'm out of touch
Jojo Siwa is a young entrepreneur who also recently came out publicly and Sia is...middle-aged wig woman who does music
@@Flareontoast no need to be ageist about this
@@OpqHMg I just wanted to highlight the difference of younger and older. If I called her "an older" woman that would sound even worse I think?
@@Flareontoast ah ok I see what you mean. You're just describing them neutrally from your side.
I have just seen so many other people being shitty to Sia for being middle-aged/old implying she is kooky or more worthy of ridicule because of it, which is a shame because they just end up hurting women as a whole (particularly older women) rather than criticizing Sia's very reprehensible actions + behavior
I understand that. Jojo Sia is a new one.