its just a time saver. Nothing glitchy with it. hitting a trigger unintentionally is not a glitch at all. In certain areas quitting and reloading is a time saver as well and its not a glitch. A casual player could quit there and continue later and that doesnt make him a glitcher lol
There's one point in particular that gets brought up disproportionately more in the comments, so I'm gonna take one of my respones and pin it here: Although I personally agree with people that No Major Glitches is a more precise name for the category (I actually brought up the idea of a name change), the community as a whole decided it'd be confusing to change the name this late into the game's lifespan; I understand where they're coming from. Some of the older runs by inactive runners will still be titled as "Glitchless," and the name disparities may cause enough confusion to outweigh the benefits of the name change. Similarly, a "Glitchless Segmented" run was recently released (a project that took 100s of hours to complete, has thousands of views, and really can't be easily re-uploaded) and has text within the video that can't be changed now. This is the main reason we haven't changed the category name, I think, compounded with the other reason I listed in the video (defining a "major glitch" is difficult). May this situation stand as a lesson for category-names to come across all new speedgames.
There's a number of people who just want to know if you and couch guy (tchops?) are good. Was it a gag for the crowd? Or was that all organic? Is there animosity? WAS there animosity?
@@piotr.kaczmarski put it in context. If the whole community pointed to a car and said it was a black car, but I saw a white car, I'd have to at least ask some questions and try to get a different perspective. Is there a reflection from this angle? Is this a prank? Am I going blind somehow? Stuff like that. I wouldn't just say "everyone here is wrong!"
@@jackcollier3485 No he didn't, in fact the explained how clipping through enemies isn't a glitch in this video. You're an idiot that doesn't know how to pay attention.
Why don't we call 'glitchless' runs 'exhibition' runs - their purpose is to give runs that are slower but may be more interesting/cooler to watch an opportunity to be used, in short they're runs where you exhibit the slower but more interesting strats, right?
I don't know what to call it, but I know that admitting that using glitches in a glitchless run is ok is total BS. They way he reacted at GDQ was also BS. Maybe he should have explained it a little more at the start. I just don't think that a glitched game should be allowed for a glitchless run. By his logic, who cares what the community thinks, if the rules for a 'glitchless' run are set, then using the same set rules under a different name would be exactly the same thing. But when you do a WR, who are we catering to? People who might be interested in Speed Running but not actually a part of it, Speed runners in general, or the Mirror's edge Speed Runners specific? I'd say go for all 3. In this case we need to only choose names for what they actually are. A glitched game cannot be part of a glitchless run. I do like the GDQ couch commentator's name... "Glitch Less".
There's some absolutely crazy people in the comments, especially those who think literally one person "made up a bunch of rules so they could just get world record" despite the fact that it's literally a community of 92+ people running together under these rules. Just insane to me that there genuinely are this many people that literally have no idea what they're even talking about trying to tell a group of specialists what they should do, that closing line of the video sums it up pretty well lol.
That's actually how it works on that site. Game only has 7 mods with this guy seemingly being the founder over there giving him full power. The entire community may consist of 90+ runners, but only mods have any real power. Who's to know how much they'd listen to input. I have seen speedrunning communities over there where the rules were set by a single person and any remark would be shot down with closing threads. But yeah, people are crazy and you just believe anything that the guy in charge tells you...
The real question is "Do the runners and the Mirror's Edge community like this category and its rules ?" That's the only question that matters. It makes me mad that some people who never were interested in Mirror's Edge runs just saw the GDQ video and arbitrarly decide that you can't do that and you're not allowed to have fun anymore. And the fact that you're the record owner just make you the perfect man to run and talk about it ! And you can't just create a category and make yourself the record owner, it has to be validated by other people. You can't make your own rules. The "king of the hill who wants to stay there" argument is just plain stupid. Well I don't want to start rambling so have a good day everybody and sorry for my broken english.
"The real question is "Do the runners and the Mirror's Edge community like this category and its rules ?" That's the only question that matters. It makes me mad that some people who never were interested in Mirror's Edge runs" Here is the thing do you want esports and speed runs to be taken REMOTELY seriously maybe don't make categories that are contradicting their name. Do you not want people to get interested in the game? Do you want to lose more and more people? Do you want more people to watch speed runs? do you want to possibly earn real money from events? Do you want people to like or dislike you when you say the words speed runner. I do not mind glitching i do mind that the name of the category implies Not Using Any Glitches At All.
Yeah for reals, ppl talking about shit they have no knowledge of. This guy is the world record holder, and most of us just found out about this games existence.... Really cringey stuff ppl are saying down here
@@havtor007 you say that like people speedrun games for others lmao, no one dedicates this much time to a single game just because they want validation from other people, they love the game and want to dedicate themselves to it, simple as
It really doesn't matter what it's called to me, but from the outside looking in the name "glitchless" looks stupid and confusing for new players/gdq viewers, i think "No Major Glitches" should be the name.
Like I said at the end, the name doesn't really matter anyway. There's already a "Glitchless Segmented" run out there, which would suck to re-brand, and the name "glitchless" has a lot of history. It's not worth changing, at this point. I understand where you're coming from, though!
glitches: creative use of intended mechanics to create new unintended strats tricks: creative use of intended mechanics it's kind of hard to explain really what I mean but clipping out of bounds is obviously a glitch and side jumping and then turning the camera is obviously not and by unintended I mean "not supposed to be possible", not "the developers didn't intend for you to do it this way"
i don't understand why so many people are getting their panties in a twist over this. the ME speedrunning community decided these things are allowed/not considered glitches, randos raging over an arbitrary name is pointless.
This guy was in AGDQ, a mayor event, doing a glichless run, then got publicaly confronted for using gliches, because the name glichless, implies not using glitches... like at all. It's a misleading title that leads to confution and changing it to "No major gliches" (At least on events like GDQ) will fix this
Yeah exactly man, lots of random ppl with no knowledge about these speedrunning communities. Like telling experts what they are doing is wrong. Laughable
@@sebastiangudino9377 the things he's doing aren't necessarily glitches though. They are design oversights. A glitch is a malfunction of programming, not a poorly design program. Example: manipulating pointers in the limited memory in Ocarina of time to get items you aren't supposed to is a glitch. Jumping to a different area of the map because the devs didn't fully account for your jump height and skipping part of the level is not a glitch. Using a kick to cancel fall damage is also not a glitch because that's just the way the game was designed, kicking creates a floor underneath you every time. It's poor design. An exploit, not a glitch.
didn't realise this video was made by you until you referenced yourself directly from the SGDQ speedrun and honestly I have respect for you by making this video, so subbed and liked :).
I really loved this video and how you said that the run would remove stuff that look insanely broken then you went on to say that infinitely running up 2 walls somehow didn't fit the criteria of looking broken.
You can call a lot of categories "Restricted Run". That is an extremely vague name. Hell even Any% is restricted because there is a load based clip we're not allowed to use
The main reason we didn't change to No Major Glitches isn't just by what it is. No Major Glitches is objectively a better name for the category. The main issue is that upon doing this there will be hundreds of runs which call themselves glitchless but are in reality No Major Glitches. Confusion would come at a significant rate as a result of this, and confusion is really the only good reason to change it from Glitchless to No Major Glitches (It being false isn't entirely a reason because it's just a name, whether it represents the category doesn't inherently matter as the run and the rules are the more important part) +fearedfizzle, it's blatant to you but if you think about what a glitch is, an argument can be made and that is the problem
Also I've explained in other comments about how glitches also need to be defined by the community. You can look through them or I'll copy-paste one explanation if you want it
cool of you to make this video man :) the famous video is funny and im glad it brings the whole topic into light. never would have ever known about this cool stuff if it weren't for that. funny how things work :)
Clipping means executing collision checks. "Noclip" mode means not executing collision checks, thereby able to go through solid objects. In speedrunnning, noclip has been abbreviated to "clipping", sure. But when you say "No clipping", you actually mean to say "No noclip" or "clipping".
Regarding the run, I found it extremely entertaining largely due to the commentary and the interaction between the couch and runner. You acted as a brilliant comic foil to DrTChops's nitpicking, and the end result was one of the funniest and most entertaining runs this year. Maybe next time this category is featured, the name can be a donation incentive ;)
ThaRixer not really considering he used alot of the banned in his run in the beginning video and got called out by the narrator alot so he made this shit.
I have no doubt the majority of the dislikes on this video are by people who have never actually tried speed running a game before. They just donate 2.99 to SGDQ and think they know everything about everything.
Because the audience isn't allowed to have an opinion on the content of the competition? Don't tell me you've never watched a game of sportsball and had an opinion on a rule change. The majority of dislikes are probably from people like me, who have a clear desire for an actual glitchless speedrun, which because of speedrunners being unable to control themselves they can't ban all glitches. "Oh what if it accidentally happens" well, it's kind of obvious but I'm sorry shit ass speed runners make some dogshit argument about how resetting a run every time the game glitches is unfair, when the reality is they don't want to ban minor glitches because they want to use them. It's why the runners making the rules is a serious issue, which was literally what Dr TChops ribbed this guy for during the run. Runners SHOULDN'T be making the rules, the community should, and this community SHOULD include non runners.
@@SherrifOfNottingham if you wanna see a run with literally no glitches then run it yourself??? why are you demanding a community of people to do something for your entertainment? if you want it so bad, do it, nobody's here to stop you
I'm glad you uploaded this video. Although I'm not a speed runner, I do find speed running culture quite fascinating. How different categories are determined, what they do and do not allow, is all incredibly fascinating and most people who don't speed run have no idea what the process is even like, how controversial speed running is, and why rules are the way they are. On one hand, it's a massive shame that over half the people who rated this video gave it a thumbs down. On the other, it shows just how popular speed running has become. It went from a relatively obscure hobby to something that is enjoyed by non-hobbyists. This video is a great demonstration of why rules are the way they are.
Parkour uses any means necessary to overcome an obstacle and go fast. Mirror's Edge "glitchless" is a good example of using janky mechanics "in the spirit of parkour" to go fast.
I agree but the point is "it could accidentally happen to anyone who isnt even trying to speedrun it... so, who is to decide if the speedrunner wanted to do it or it was just casual? I mean... just allow it. It's just too likely to happen in a run than not."
@@Kasmuller did you read my comment at all!? I've said it's really likely in a speedrun that doesn't want to use that glitch, to end up using it non voluntarily. That's why that SPECIFIC glitch might be allowed. But for the others i can't pronounce myself.
@@torment4723 It's actually a lot more simple than that, if a speed runner accidentally uses a glitch then it happens on occasion. If the speedrunner is clearly performing that glitch on every run, and/or is performing actions that are clearly based on moving around that glitch, then it's not an accident. MANY of these glitches people use because they're not banned explicitly are not being done accidentally, therefore they're glitches and it's not a glitchless run. It's pretty easy to tell when a glitch is being used, or a glitch just accidentally happens.
@@SherrifOfNottingham going through an enemy because you triggered an animation isn't a glitch though. That's the way the game is designed and it was designed that way in all likelihood to PREVENT glitches.
There's a good video about this topic by EZScape called "Glitchless" Speedruns where he talks about this whole exploit/glitch situations, you guys should watch it, it's pretty good
God, most of the people in the comments are like the speedrun newbs that leave comments like "speedrunning isn't fair, they aren't playing the game RIGHT!!". You just don't understand how Mirror's Edge works. Mirror's Edge has INTENDED MECHANICS that you cannot use without having a "glitch". Side Jump and Wall Boost are prime examples, they were just designed/coded in a really stupid and exploitable way. If they're using an INTENDED MECHANIC with its INTENDED RESULTS that cause them to go faster, it's not really a glitch. Basically, glitchless means - if you didn't intend it, we're not using it. If you consciously made it this way, we're using it even though it looks "glitched".
Yagi Pro tip: If you want new people in to the speedrunning thing don't insult them before they learn. Also "Mirror's Edge has INTENDED MECHANICS that you cannot use without having a "glitch". Side Jump and Wall Boost are prime examples, they were just designed/coded in a really stupid and exploitable way. If they're using an INTENDED MECHANIC with its INTENDED RESULTS that cause them to go faster, it's not really a glitch." Your examples are 100% GLITCHES THEY ARE what would be referred just because it is clever use of game mechanics does not change the fact that it is a glitch and when you are using it knowingly and going out of your way to do them you are glitching "Basically, glitchless means - if you didn't intend it, we're not using it. If you consciously made it this way, we're using it even though it looks "glitched"." IF that was the CASE YOU WOULD NOT USE GLITCHES. A glitch BY DEFINITION IS NOT INTENDED moving faster by side jumping is not intentional it is a glitch made by how the game was made. This means if your rule right there was ACTUALLY true YOU would NOT use it.
@@havtor007 "Your examples are 100% GLITCHES THEY ARE what would be referred just because it is clever use of game mechanics does not change the fact that it is a glitch and when you are using it knowingly and going out of your way to do them you are glitching" And who decides that? You? There is no solid definition of a "glitch", because to a computer everything you write is "intended". If I program a mechanic in a particularly stupid way, then you can argue just using that mechanic is "a glitch". If the developers allow the player to jump farther IN AN INTENDED WAY and then just "forget" this can be used to cross a gap, is that a glitch? Are you in the developer's head? Any version of "glitchless" will be absolutely subjective, that's why priority is given to making speedruns fun and competitive over "pure". You can never achieve a true "glitchless" speedrun. "IF that was the CASE YOU WOULD NOT USE GLITCHES. A glitch BY DEFINITION IS NOT INTENDED moving faster by side jumping is not intentional it is a glitch made by how the game was made. This means if your rule right there was ACTUALLY true YOU would NOT use it." Moving faster is literally the side-effect of side-jumping. As you have hopefully heard, without this rule the speedrun would be just side-jumping all the time. You'd literally have to ban an INTENDED MECHANIC to rule out all abuse. Same with the Barbed Wire - it just does not do enough damage to kill you. Nobody is manipulating the numbers, it's an INTENDED damage number with an INTENDED hitbox that can be exploited.
Great explanation video. I love the idea of a category where some major glitches are banned to attract more runners. The skip at the end of chapter 1 looks pretty hard though, never saw that one before. (ps your voice seemed a bit silent in this video, but it was understandable)
surprised how well you kept your head during that stream, I would've kicked that guy off the couch and thrown his headset across the room. anyways, even if it wasn't a completely "intended" run, there's always going to be speculation as to what is intended or not, and I don't think many people would gather to watch you play through the entire game completely legitimate, and that would negatively affect the money gathered for the cause. Nice video, you seem like a really chill guy
A glitch is something that is unintentional so unless it is a feature it is a glitch these things are glitches that is the simple fact of it. You do not choose what is a glitch or not that is the makers of the game in this instance.
Perfect argument against people that say that glitchless category is not really glitchless: Skyrim. Seriously, no one can say what is a glitch and what is a feature in that game.
Ok I agree with most of this, but surviving a fall you shouldn't should definitely be considered a glitch. I'm cool with the falling damage animation cancel but surviving a fall you shouldn't is most certainly too far.
Problem is, what if they are on the edge of what is and isn't survivable? How do you determine if the fall would have been fatal? Who is the one judging that? A lot of allowed glitches in this run are simply things that would introduce too much ambiguity and edge cases if banned. Mirror's Edge is a game that has a lot of those edge case style mechanics where it becomes hard to tell hat's broken and what's just used in unintentional ways. Certain bugs happen often enough in regular play that banning them simply becomes more effort than it's worth.
The falls in question are falls from a height that kills you. It's not subjective. It only can be survived because the game was coded to spawn a floor under Faith for one frame after a kick or wall-jump kick or something, so by kicking at a certain point in the fall you basically reset your falling distance. So there's no edge, you die if you fall off that distance. The only question is: is resetting your jump height by spawning a floor under you for one frame by kicking during a fall allowed or not in the category?
@@agustinlado yeah but the wall kick animation spawns the floor regardless of whether you want it to or not. what if someone means to jump off a wall, but left-clicks on accident? does that mean they have to reset the run because they kicked? kicking is an intended game mechanic, the floor spawning beneath you isn't, but it's there regardless.
gotta love all the randos that watched a cringe compilation and know nothing about the mirror's edge speedrunning community telling you what you should name the category
Not gonna lie at SGDQ I was laughing every time something iffy happened, but after watching this video I get it maybe they should get people who know the run on the couch for things like that.
Not really. It would just beg the question, why not make a glitchless category? To anyone unfamiliar with the glitches in the game, they wouldn't notice the glitches that are allowed, so who cares?
If the game's so bugged that you can accidentally perform something unintended then it's understandable that some "bugs" must be allowed. So that people don't reset 1000 times or get accused of cheating / have their time invalid because they pressed a button in wrong moment lol.
deciding whether the glitch was intentional or not is the problem, if the glitch is very easy to accidentally do then it is a hard thing to ban as people would have to reset their whole run over a small easy to do accident, and if it was done on a case by case basis then who would decide if it was intentional or not?
The game places pedestrians and traffic in places where you are not supposed to be. It is clear that you are never intended to be among them as you can walk right through them. By using the fall height reset at 4:58, you reach such a place. If you get there the intended way, the area is different and the pedestrians are gone. Doesn't that make it out of bounds?
So...What I'm getting from this is, glitches that have no significance or could very easily be executed unintentionally are allowed. I think that's fine, but there is still a few allowed glitches that I think are too far. I'm willing to believe that he didn't just make these rules for himself. And although he does have a point about the "Is that a *MAJOR* glitch" thing, I still support changing the name to "No Major Glitches".
If you perform a glitch in a glitchless run it's dead. So yes. Anytime you would "accidentally" glitch the run would be invalid. This is what happens when you put arbitrary and non-sense rules into a speedrun.
William Rutherford but you don't look only to the category name, look the rules for mirro's edge glitchless runs on speedruns.com It's not only him who made the rules.
Yes and no. I think Mirrors edge is very hard to distinguish the difference between a glitch and not in the glitchless run. In other games banning glitches is a little easier to do but in mirrors edge I believe this is very difficult and the category is dumb.
This video is a good example of "Glitch" vs "Exploit", though it doesn't fallow it exactly. A glitch is something that is not intended, and an exploit is something intentional used in an unintentended way.
A minor exploit vs major exploit is kind of a key factor, a minor exploit would be like Link rolling to go faster, or side dashing to get up to speed faster. They're intended mechanics that make the game slightly awkward since, rolling everywhere is unrealistic as well as starting off the line sideways. Major exploits are usually what gets into glitch territory. It's where multiple intended mechanics are used together in an unintended way. Such as in Skyrim a minor exploit would be the alchemy/enchantment loop, it becomes a major exploit when you add the fortify restoration potion in the mix boosting the loop to absurd proportions quickly. This is where Speedrunning has a bit of self regulation, no speed runner would use the alchemy/enchantment loop without the restoration buff, since it would take far too long. Major exploits become glitches very quickly. In a source game, forward b-hopping is fine but the moment you start using wall sliding and backwards b-hops it's a combination of two mechanics creating a "glitched" result, it becomes a major exploit and is against the rules. The other thing that gets me with "glitchless" rulesets is the "what if it happens on accident" argument, which is stupid since, well it's kind of obvious when things are intentional... since the runner will do it every run and the glitch will benefit them. If you accidentally glitch through the floor in any speed run and fall to your death, it's a bad run anyway. So why would having a glitch you didn't intend to happen be any different. The argument about glitches accidentally happening is being made so they can use the glitches. People would like to see glitchless runs, but they don't exist because runners are, inherently, incapable of following the rules without bending them as much as possible.
Because it´s bullshit? There are glitches used so no matter what they say it´s not glitchless, it´s like if i and everyone around pretended i ´m black, no matter how many people will call me black it will still be a lie for i am white.
+Isaiah Brooks Eveyonestrying to argue that it uses glitches lol, everyone knows that! He knows that! Just ignore the name for a second. This is a category of speedrunning, and these are the rules. What's the problem?
So... if a person accidentally does it, it's okay. But if it's done intentionally, it's not? Do you not understand how stupid you sound suggesting that this is okay? This would mean a person could accidentally kick before landing to get a legit run - realize how useful it is - then have his next run banned for doing the same exact thing.
is there a "legit" version of mirror's edge speerun, meaning no instant max speed no cancel animation no wall stupid height jumps. basically nothing that can't be done with a controller or by abusing some game mechanics? I say that because I'm doing pretty good times without all those technics. Also regarding the video, I think some rules are unfair for a glitchless, everything that prevents fall damage is a glitch it's not something intended to be in the game, . The name of the run is misleading, people not wanting to change it is not really a problem "no major glitches" is more appropriate
If a football player breaks the offside rule, it's still worth a free kick even if it was an accident. If you want eSports to be taken seriously then, yes, people who glitch unintentionally should have their runs disqualified.
wholly_unholy that's not what is happening, its not him breaking any rules, everything he did in the run is within the rules defined by the community that every runner uses, you can go on the website and check for yourself. Please don't comment on stuff you clearly do not understand.
I love how people genuinely think black belt is actually like this the whole thing was a joke done by him and his friend to show how actually dumb the glitchless category actually is
I also wanted to express that Glitchless means a casual (fast play) of a game. You don't use any glitches or break any mechanics. You're in the wrong here, dude.
Glitchless is the name of the cathegory. You could name it a mashed potatoes cathegory, it still went by the rules of the cathegory, therefore is a legit run. Also the trigger extends below the ceiling, apparently.
Lord Krythic Their community all collectively decided and agree with all these rules. They even admit the name doesn't really represent the actual run. But why do you care? Ignore the name, and just read the rules. That is what the run is.
It's a lot easier to define a major glitch than defining a glitch, because the definition of a major glitch is very malleable and can be whatever you want.
Mhm come to think of this, some of these are intended mechanics that just happen to look silly but were implemented that way to keep the gameplay smoother and more entertaining. The side jump being full speed, wall runs gaining momentum, and coil jump smoothly gliding over barb wire.
You and most people just missed the point, this is what happens when someone tries to make a fun scrip for a speedrun, it was well done but, speedrun is so popular now that most of the people who watch it are super ignorant to the scene and don't understand how the rules are made. I don't know much but is very common for the speedrun community to makeup their rules, this is not his rules, is the community rules, you don't like glitchless don't watch it, are you going to ban bunnyhop from every glitchless run on any game running source engine? ofc not. I fell bad for this guy, he made a huge satire with that scrip for the run and people now think HE is the one who decides the rules, this is what happens when speedrun becomes mainstream. Sad day indeed.
it's apparently not hard to decide that whether you break the rules or not you get the world record. he's just not good enough for a real run for the game
Kenny we all already know it's a shit game, but just because this guy isn't good enough to do all the skips, he made his own bullshit catagory so he could have the world record for something HE decides "isn't glitchy looking" how do you not see the problem with his "rules" in general that HE BREAKS
Are rules arbitrary if their set by the most knowledgeable community possible in the entire world? Who knows more about Mirror's Edge speedrunning than the guys who run it? Not the creators, or the glitches woulda been patched out. Maybe find out what 'arbitrary' means.
There are NO rules to speedrunning and it is ALWAYS up to the community to define the categories and what is allowed and what not. If someone doesn't agree he/she can start a discussion inside the community.
To be honest, this run wouldn't of copped no where near the amount of controversy if it wasn't for the dude on the couch.. Legit the only reason I STILL haven't watched the SGDQ run. He straight up ruined your run.
I take it you watched the "couch dude compilation". I was like you. But when I watched it there really wasn't anything to be triggered about. I quite enjoyed the run and it was very obvious to me that he was just memeing.
I agree that they seem to know each other and it's friendly banter, but he was definitely kicking a dead horse 5 minutes into using the joke. His buddy may not have minded but the audience sure did
Well that begs the question again, whats really 'intended'? With sidejumps, its intended that they go that fast. It's likely not intended to use that to skip the run speed buildup by turning around, but what are they gonna do, ban you from turning your camera?
Reset, cuz you accidently did this and that. Thats an explanation that could be used for any glitch, cuz you accidently clipped into a wall, cuz you accidently scrolled after a wall jump and chain kicked mid air, cuz you fell throw the map and hit an checkpoint, yeah would be pretty stupid to reset for that too right .
i dont think the name of the run or the rules should really matter as long as both the runner and viewer is having a good time, people freaking out over it ruin the run more than the "problems" that are apparently there
Derek you're right, so when I play football and get 4 touch downs because I don't listen to the parameters set up by the rules it's all ok because everyone is entertained. It ruins one of the important parts of speed runs, the competition. Because you fall into a grey area up for interpretation.
Derek just cuz glitchless isnt defined properly, doesnt mean its not wrong to call it a glitchless speedrun. Everyone one else in the gaming world understands Glitchless as "no glitches or aduse of mechanics."
I know not everyone reads the comments... But I love (civil) debate and actually appreciate the feedback! I'll respond to comments that bring up good points for a little bit, and I'll try to clarify my arguments with a response comment :D
Blackbeltginganinja I feel like you should've called it a no major glitch run instead like that wall kick to save from all damage to I feel seems like it was a major glitch cause your getting to an area you weren't supposed to get to at that time in the way you did
There is no difference between this and an any% run except you are choosing to go slower. You say you allow some glitches to keep it interesting, but if you want an interesting run just do any%? I can understand a glitchless category and allowing some glitches that are simply unavoidable, but I don't agree with some of the glitches that you allow. Skipping animations and avoiding deaths from great height is clearly not how this game was intended to be played. So in conclusion this is not a glitchless run. It should be named something else as you have picked and chosen rules to suit yourself.
While I agree the name should just flat out be changed, I don't think he chose the rules just to suit himself. At that point why not just exclude one little glitch and call yourself the king of the category. The fact that there are more stipulations makes it a more distinct and more real category instead of just a title-grab.
Adam Nope Alright sure if this category is truly something people have agreed on that makes sense but it doesn't change the fact that some glitches are allowed. I understand that this game is glitchy and it's not worth throwing a run away from something that's beyond your control. But then why are some animation skips allowed but others not? Why can you spam jump off a wall to gain extra speed while not being able to spam jump to double jump? Why can you use the same wall kick exploit to survive a fall too great but not double jump? The rules don't make sense if you want to call it glitchless because it's not glitchless, it's pick and choose whatever glitches you want but not the ones that are too difficult. Which makes no sense because speed running is and was never easy.
It doesn't matter what the community picks as allowed glitches. What matters is how fast you can do whatever you all agreed upon. This category has 50+ registered players on speedrun.com. That's more than a lot of other games. Saying he created the category just to get the world record is not only ignorant, but blatantly slanderous.
Depends how you define "interesting." To me interesting is no glitches and/or exploits but using natural shortcuts built in the map. He talked about not looking silly but then started allowing exploits that look silly. They should be another category - so instead of having a "no glitch" run full of exploits, call it a run using exploits
Who determines what is and isn't intended? What about unintended things that happen regularily and unintentionally in regular play such as clipping through guards? There is a chase scene in the game where you can actually outpace the guy you're not meant to be able to catch. You get into so many edge cases and subjective judgement calls that it's just not worth it. Hell the whole side jumping thing is a perfect example.
who gives a fuck? like, what's your point? oh boohoo the devs are mad that people used their broken ass game in a broken ass way. well news flash... they aren't - the mirrors edge devs love the speedrunning community my g
I like to think of speed runs as having quite a few different categories: Any%: get to the end as fast as possible. No other rules. Low%: you can take as much time to get to the end as you need, just try to do as little of the game's content as possible 0%: get to the end straight from the start doing no missions or levels at all, as fast as possible. (Usually this is reserved for extremely broken games) 100%: do everything that contributes to 100% game completion as fast as possible. True 100%: do LITERALLY EVERYTHING in the game, even stuff that would not contribute towards 100%, such as Easter eggs etc. Glitchless: do not use any major, game-breaking glitches. Minor glitches are allowed. (The idea of this is to just glitch...less) T3G (or True To The Game): no glitches or exploits are allowed. (This is much stricter than Glitchless, and is intended to encourage people to play the game how it was made to be played. This is a basic "get through the level as normal as fast as you can" run) 'Blind': try to get through the game as fast as possible without having played the game before. Blindfolded/true blind: get through the game as fast as possible without seeing the screen. 2P1C (Two Players, One Controller): do the run with two people, each taking one half of the controller. Typically reserved for NES and SNES titles. NG+ (New Game Plus): get through the game as fast as possible using a save that has already completed the game. Typically done with games like Dark Souls etc. I'm sure there are a bunch more that I've forgotten, but I can't think of any more right now.
its supposed to be completely glitchless.. that means NO GLITCHES AT ALL! if it happens by freak accident (like most bethesda games) sure its fine, but wall boosting in mirrors edge is an exploit. if you were going to use glitches, just do a regular any % run.
Yes, because a couple people on the internet control the rules of speedrunning, and not the community that surrounds it. I agree, it should be called something slightly less misleading, also I think exploits are slightly different then glitches.
So what you're saying is it's not really glitchless, it's more glitch less?
Nevan Lowe ayyyyyyy
savage
Nevan Lowe I liked when he said that in the stream.
hainsay you're just an idiot.
^ Not worth my time
I think the distinction you're looking for is glitch vs. exploits. Your category allows exploits.
thats a good definition imo
Not precisely. He was fine with clipping through a wall to prematurely activate a save point, which is _obviously_ a glitch.
Stevethebarbarian he didnt glich through. The hit zone for the checkpoint extends so thats just a bad design decision
XtremeNukeFighters That he took advantage of. So I guess you could say he exploited a glitch.
its just a time saver. Nothing glitchy with it. hitting a trigger unintentionally is not a glitch at all. In certain areas quitting and reloading is a time saver as well and its not a glitch. A casual player could quit there and continue later and that doesnt make him a glitcher lol
Why would chaining together wallruns and wallclimbs infinitely be considered a glitch? I do that shit irl every day.
To me Mirror's Edge is a video game that hinders my ability to parkour. I play it when I want some restrictions.
Someone needs to talk to the irl game devs, some of these exploits are getting out of hand.
The rules of matter and natural phenomenons don't apply to me, as I wall jump into a dark void and end up on a roof
Ow the edge
Would you say that you live on the Edge?
The Mirror's Edge... hahahah
*Irish laugh*
There's one point in particular that gets brought up disproportionately more in the comments, so I'm gonna take one of my respones and pin it here:
Although I personally agree with people that No Major Glitches is a more precise name for the category (I actually brought up the idea of a name change), the community as a whole decided it'd be confusing to change the name this late into the game's lifespan; I understand where they're coming from. Some of the older runs by inactive runners will still be titled as "Glitchless," and the name disparities may cause enough confusion to outweigh the benefits of the name change. Similarly, a "Glitchless Segmented" run was recently released (a project that took 100s of hours to complete, has thousands of views, and really can't be easily re-uploaded) and has text within the video that can't be changed now. This is the main reason we haven't changed the category name, I think, compounded with the other reason I listed in the video (defining a "major glitch" is difficult). May this situation stand as a lesson for category-names to come across all new speedgames.
You go through easily avoidable glitches and try to motivate why they shouldnt be banned
There's a number of people who just want to know if you and couch guy (tchops?) are good.
Was it a gag for the crowd? Or was that all organic?
Is there animosity? WAS there animosity?
Got through half of the video until I found out it was actually the runner talking.
GRiMOSAUR
Same man, same.
then I immediately disliked
GRiMOSAUR yeah I know this guy is a idiot
8 minutes of pleading for no hate
I wasn't sure if it was him ty dude. Well my dislike is sure
What? This man is taking the time to explain to me what rules the community agreed upon!? How dare you!
thanks.
u r stanky
If the community agree that white is black, would you agree?
@@piotr.kaczmarski put it in context. If the whole community pointed to a car and said it was a black car, but I saw a white car, I'd have to at least ask some questions and try to get a different perspective. Is there a reflection from this angle? Is this a prank? Am I going blind somehow? Stuff like that. I wouldn't just say "everyone here is wrong!"
6:04 "at this point I probably sound like a broken record"
Is this a glitch (reference)?
No its just a saying
I don't see an apostrophe between "it" and "s" in your comment. Did you just forget to put it or....is that a glitch?
suiiperable 420 likes •`√•
*Is that a motherfucking glitch reference
Is what you wanted to say.
Why does this video have so many dislikes. He explained everything clearly with reasonable arguments.
I dunno Rob, how’d he know my birthday was in October?
he says no major glitches like out of bounds but in the speedrun he did he goes out of bounds
@@jackcollier3485 No he didn't, in fact the explained how clipping through enemies isn't a glitch in this video. You're an idiot that doesn't know how to pay attention.
@@urquanseven2332 he clips out of bounds to hit a checkpoint trigger...
Pretty sure it’s fine, don’t worry about it
Why don't we call 'glitchless' runs 'exhibition' runs - their purpose is to give runs that are slower but may be more interesting/cooler to watch an opportunity to be used, in short they're runs where you exhibit the slower but more interesting strats, right?
ViciouslyVicarious i was opting for calling it "a Restricted run" cuz your restricted on the glitches that can be used
69 likes I'm not liking
ViciouslyVicarious honestly I find regular runs more interesting to watch
I don't know what to call it, but I know that admitting that using glitches in a glitchless run is ok is total BS. They way he reacted at GDQ was also BS. Maybe he should have explained it a little more at the start. I just don't think that a glitched game should be allowed for a glitchless run. By his logic, who cares what the community thinks, if the rules for a 'glitchless' run are set, then using the same set rules under a different name would be exactly the same thing. But when you do a WR, who are we catering to? People who might be interested in Speed Running but not actually a part of it, Speed runners in general, or the Mirror's edge Speed Runners specific? I'd say go for all 3. In this case we need to only choose names for what they actually are. A glitched game cannot be part of a glitchless run. I do like the GDQ couch commentator's name... "Glitch Less".
Yes but that doesn't sound as impressive so just go ahead and be disingenuous.
There's some absolutely crazy people in the comments, especially those who think literally one person "made up a bunch of rules so they could just get world record" despite the fact that it's literally a community of 92+ people running together under these rules.
Just insane to me that there genuinely are this many people that literally have no idea what they're even talking about trying to tell a group of specialists what they should do, that closing line of the video sums it up pretty well lol.
This ☝️
Omg 92 people! So many people!
@@ArticularsCA Yes. Speedrunning is indeed a niche hobby to practice. Got any other incredible and insightful commentary?
Mitchell Yep, ty for the reply
That's actually how it works on that site. Game only has 7 mods with this guy seemingly being the founder over there giving him full power. The entire community may consist of 90+ runners, but only mods have any real power. Who's to know how much they'd listen to input. I have seen speedrunning communities over there where the rules were set by a single person and any remark would be shot down with closing threads. But yeah, people are crazy and you just believe anything that the guy in charge tells you...
The real question is "Do the runners and the Mirror's Edge community like this category and its rules ?"
That's the only question that matters. It makes me mad that some people who never were interested in Mirror's Edge runs just saw the GDQ video and arbitrarly decide that you can't do that and you're not allowed to have fun anymore.
And the fact that you're the record owner just make you the perfect man to run and talk about it ! And you can't just create a category and make yourself the record owner, it has to be validated by other people. You can't make your own rules. The "king of the hill who wants to stay there" argument is just plain stupid.
Well I don't want to start rambling so have a good day everybody and sorry for my broken english.
"The real question is "Do the runners and the Mirror's Edge community like this category and its rules ?" That's the only question that matters. It makes me mad that some people who never were interested in Mirror's Edge runs"
Here is the thing do you want esports and speed runs to be taken REMOTELY seriously maybe don't make categories that are contradicting their name.
Do you not want people to get interested in the game? Do you want to lose more and more people?
Do you want more people to watch speed runs? do you want to possibly earn real money from events?
Do you want people to like or dislike you when you say the words speed runner.
I do not mind glitching i do mind that the name of the category implies Not Using Any Glitches At All.
Yeah for reals, ppl talking about shit they have no knowledge of. This guy is the world record holder, and most of us just found out about this games existence.... Really cringey stuff ppl are saying down here
@@havtor007 you say that like people speedrun games for others lmao, no one dedicates this much time to a single game just because they want validation from other people, they love the game and want to dedicate themselves to it, simple as
It really doesn't matter what it's called to me, but from the outside looking in the name "glitchless" looks stupid and confusing for new players/gdq viewers, i think "No Major Glitches" should be the name.
Like I said at the end, the name doesn't really matter anyway. There's already a "Glitchless Segmented" run out there, which would suck to re-brand, and the name "glitchless" has a lot of history. It's not worth changing, at this point. I understand where you're coming from, though!
i did watch it to the end, my argument does not come from a place of ignorance.
the tricks allowed are just creative uses of intended mechanics
You'd make an amazing politician with wording bullshit like that.
glitches: creative use of intended mechanics to create new unintended strats
tricks: creative use of intended mechanics
it's kind of hard to explain really what I mean but clipping out of bounds is obviously a glitch and side jumping and then turning the camera is obviously not
and by unintended I mean "not supposed to be possible", not "the developers didn't intend for you to do it this way"
Hopefully Chops receives less death threats now OpieOP
Req I doubt it ppl so mad about the run lol
Iconic reply
you could literally just call it no major glitches
Lagoon kicks the wall flys in the opposite direction. "No major glitches"
Literally watch the end of the video.
STLLR he literally said the community didn't even decide on a the name
Lagoon did they change it? No. That quantifies a decision to me. If the community wants to change that then it's on them. Not us.
STLLR to YOU it qualifies as okay but isn't speedrunning a COMMUNITY and shouldn't the COMMUNITY be the deciding factor?
i don't understand why so many people are getting their panties in a twist over this. the ME speedrunning community decided these things are allowed/not considered glitches, randos raging over an arbitrary name is pointless.
This guy was in AGDQ, a mayor event, doing a glichless run, then got publicaly confronted for using gliches, because the name glichless, implies not using glitches... like at all. It's a misleading title that leads to confution and changing it to "No major gliches" (At least on events like GDQ) will fix this
Yeah exactly man, lots of random ppl with no knowledge about these speedrunning communities. Like telling experts what they are doing is wrong. Laughable
@@sebastiangudino9377 they did that on purpose lol
@@sebastiangudino9377 the things he's doing aren't necessarily glitches though. They are design oversights. A glitch is a malfunction of programming, not a poorly design program. Example: manipulating pointers in the limited memory in Ocarina of time to get items you aren't supposed to is a glitch. Jumping to a different area of the map because the devs didn't fully account for your jump height and skipping part of the level is not a glitch. Using a kick to cancel fall damage is also not a glitch because that's just the way the game was designed, kicking creates a floor underneath you every time. It's poor design. An exploit, not a glitch.
Wait so the whole "Speedrunner gets roasted" thing was satire and the runner isn't a psychopath? Might watch this guy more often tbh.
@@arii09876 2012?
didn't realise this video was made by you until you referenced yourself directly from the SGDQ speedrun and honestly I have respect for you by making this video, so subbed and liked :).
I really loved this video and how you said that the run would remove stuff that look insanely broken then you went on to say that infinitely running up 2 walls somehow didn't fit the criteria of looking broken.
Why is everyone getting mad at the runner for explaining rules? Why not get mad at the people who MADE them?
because he is the one who made them from my understanding
@@rickson50 he didnt
@@rickson50 i genuinely wonder where you got that from
@@Ascension721 he got it from "i saw this guy play this category and he tried to explain the rules, so it must be him! 🧠"
I love watching the montages of the guy sitting behind you going: "So thats a glitch right?" So damn funny
Watch to the end commenters who want to say "Just call it No Major Glitches instead of Glitchless"
DaFatMan922 just call it "Restricted run"... You know... Cuz your restricted from major glitches.
You can call a lot of categories "Restricted Run". That is an extremely vague name. Hell even Any% is restricted because there is a load based clip we're not allowed to use
but why call it something it blatantly isnt?
The main reason we didn't change to No Major Glitches isn't just by what it is. No Major Glitches is objectively a better name for the category.
The main issue is that upon doing this there will be hundreds of runs which call themselves glitchless but are in reality No Major Glitches. Confusion would come at a significant rate as a result of this, and confusion is really the only good reason to change it from Glitchless to No Major Glitches (It being false isn't entirely a reason because it's just a name, whether it represents the category doesn't inherently matter as the run and the rules are the more important part)
+fearedfizzle, it's blatant to you but if you think about what a glitch is, an argument can be made and that is the problem
Also I've explained in other comments about how glitches also need to be defined by the community. You can look through them or I'll copy-paste one explanation if you want it
cool of you to make this video man :) the famous video is funny and im glad it brings the whole topic into light. never would have ever known about this cool stuff if it weren't for that. funny how things work :)
Clipping means executing collision checks. "Noclip" mode means not executing collision checks, thereby able to go through solid objects. In speedrunnning, noclip has been abbreviated to "clipping", sure. But when you say "No clipping", you actually mean to say "No noclip" or "clipping".
Huh, cool little piece of info, thanks.
Great video man! I hadn't really considered the complexities of the Mirror's Edge Glitchless Category. Keep up the great work!
Regarding the run, I found it extremely entertaining largely due to the commentary and the interaction between the couch and runner. You acted as a brilliant comic foil to DrTChops's nitpicking, and the end result was one of the funniest and most entertaining runs this year.
Maybe next time this category is featured, the name can be a donation incentive ;)
This is why I just any% lol
Great video regardless
I fall into any% category because people whine if they don't see the boat in glitchless.
ThaRixer he broke one of the rules though at sdgq. He went oob.
that was a meme run anyways.
Trevor Thebo you know what. I think i met run true glitchless. Just for fun. XD
ThaRixer not really considering he used alot of the banned in his run in the beginning video and got called out by the narrator alot so he made this shit.
I have no doubt the majority of the dislikes on this video are by people who have never actually tried speed running a game before. They just donate 2.99 to SGDQ and think they know everything about everything.
Because the audience isn't allowed to have an opinion on the content of the competition?
Don't tell me you've never watched a game of sportsball and had an opinion on a rule change.
The majority of dislikes are probably from people like me, who have a clear desire for an actual glitchless speedrun, which because of speedrunners being unable to control themselves they can't ban all glitches. "Oh what if it accidentally happens" well, it's kind of obvious but I'm sorry shit ass speed runners make some dogshit argument about how resetting a run every time the game glitches is unfair, when the reality is they don't want to ban minor glitches because they want to use them. It's why the runners making the rules is a serious issue, which was literally what Dr TChops ribbed this guy for during the run.
Runners SHOULDN'T be making the rules, the community should, and this community SHOULD include non runners.
@@SherrifOfNottingham which btw guess who made the rules the fucking communityyyyy!!!!!
@@SherrifOfNottingham moron lmaoooo
Robbie, if you represent that community, I don't want to belong to it. Also, you are wrong.
@@SherrifOfNottingham if you wanna see a run with literally no glitches then run it yourself??? why are you demanding a community of people to do something for your entertainment? if you want it so bad, do it, nobody's here to stop you
I'm glad you uploaded this video. Although I'm not a speed runner, I do find speed running culture quite fascinating. How different categories are determined, what they do and do not allow, is all incredibly fascinating and most people who don't speed run have no idea what the process is even like, how controversial speed running is, and why rules are the way they are.
On one hand, it's a massive shame that over half the people who rated this video gave it a thumbs down. On the other, it shows just how popular speed running has become. It went from a relatively obscure hobby to something that is enjoyed by non-hobbyists.
This video is a great demonstration of why rules are the way they are.
Parkour uses any means necessary to overcome an obstacle and go fast. Mirror's Edge "glitchless" is a good example of using janky mechanics "in the spirit of parkour" to go fast.
There's a HUGE difference between accidentally and "accidentally" but on purpose.
I agree but the point is "it could accidentally happen to anyone who isnt even trying to speedrun it... so, who is to decide if the speedrunner wanted to do it or it was just casual? I mean... just allow it. It's just too likely to happen in a run than not."
@@torment4723 well if it is a glitch,ban it
@@Kasmuller did you read my comment at all!? I've said it's really likely in a speedrun that doesn't want to use that glitch, to end up using it non voluntarily. That's why that SPECIFIC glitch might be allowed. But for the others i can't pronounce myself.
@@torment4723 It's actually a lot more simple than that, if a speed runner accidentally uses a glitch then it happens on occasion. If the speedrunner is clearly performing that glitch on every run, and/or is performing actions that are clearly based on moving around that glitch, then it's not an accident. MANY of these glitches people use because they're not banned explicitly are not being done accidentally, therefore they're glitches and it's not a glitchless run.
It's pretty easy to tell when a glitch is being used, or a glitch just accidentally happens.
@@SherrifOfNottingham going through an enemy because you triggered an animation isn't a glitch though. That's the way the game is designed and it was designed that way in all likelihood to PREVENT glitches.
Guys leave him alone... ITS FINE OKAY?!?!
It's not his fault, I'm pretty sure it's fine.
The name is silly, but overall it makes sense. Props on the cool speedrun despite all the trolling, was fun to watch.
There's a good video about this topic by EZScape called "Glitchless" Speedruns where he talks about this whole exploit/glitch situations, you guys should watch it, it's pretty good
This was a very good explanation, and I think I would have enjoyed this category back when I tried running ME. Kudos!
God, most of the people in the comments are like the speedrun newbs that leave comments like "speedrunning isn't fair, they aren't playing the game RIGHT!!". You just don't understand how Mirror's Edge works. Mirror's Edge has INTENDED MECHANICS that you cannot use without having a "glitch". Side Jump and Wall Boost are prime examples, they were just designed/coded in a really stupid and exploitable way. If they're using an INTENDED MECHANIC with its INTENDED RESULTS that cause them to go faster, it's not really a glitch.
Basically, glitchless means - if you didn't intend it, we're not using it. If you consciously made it this way, we're using it even though it looks "glitched".
Yagi Pro tip: If you want new people in to the speedrunning thing don't insult them before they learn.
Also "Mirror's Edge has INTENDED MECHANICS that you cannot use without having a "glitch". Side Jump and Wall Boost are prime examples, they were just designed/coded in a really stupid and exploitable way. If they're using an INTENDED MECHANIC with its INTENDED RESULTS that cause them to go faster, it's not really a glitch."
Your examples are 100% GLITCHES THEY ARE what would be referred just because it is clever use of game mechanics does not change the fact that it is a glitch and when you are using it knowingly and going out of your way to do them you are glitching
"Basically, glitchless means - if you didn't intend it, we're not using it. If you consciously made it this way, we're using it even though it looks "glitched"."
IF that was the CASE YOU WOULD NOT USE GLITCHES.
A glitch BY DEFINITION IS NOT INTENDED moving faster by side jumping is not intentional it is a glitch made by how the game was made. This means if your rule right there was ACTUALLY true YOU would NOT use it.
@@havtor007 "Your examples are 100% GLITCHES THEY ARE what would be referred just because it is clever use of game mechanics does not change the fact that it is a glitch and when you are using it knowingly and going out of your way to do them you are glitching"
And who decides that? You?
There is no solid definition of a "glitch", because to a computer everything you write is "intended". If I program a mechanic in a particularly stupid way, then you can argue just using that mechanic is "a glitch". If the developers allow the player to jump farther IN AN INTENDED WAY and then just "forget" this can be used to cross a gap, is that a glitch? Are you in the developer's head?
Any version of "glitchless" will be absolutely subjective, that's why priority is given to making speedruns fun and competitive over "pure". You can never achieve a true "glitchless" speedrun.
"IF that was the CASE YOU WOULD NOT USE GLITCHES.
A glitch BY DEFINITION IS NOT INTENDED moving faster by side jumping is not intentional it is a glitch made by how the game was made. This means if your rule right there was ACTUALLY true YOU would NOT use it."
Moving faster is literally the side-effect of side-jumping. As you have hopefully heard, without this rule the speedrun would be just side-jumping all the time. You'd literally have to ban an INTENDED MECHANIC to rule out all abuse. Same with the Barbed Wire - it just does not do enough damage to kill you. Nobody is manipulating the numbers, it's an INTENDED damage number with an INTENDED hitbox that can be exploited.
Great explanation video. I love the idea of a category where some major glitches are banned to attract more runners. The skip at the end of chapter 1 looks pretty hard though, never saw that one before. (ps your voice seemed a bit silent in this video, but it was understandable)
Petition to call this style of run "Runner%"
Not a terrible idea actually.
surprised how well you kept your head during that stream, I would've kicked that guy off the couch and thrown his headset across the room. anyways, even if it wasn't a completely "intended" run, there's always going to be speculation as to what is intended or not, and I don't think many people would gather to watch you play through the entire game completely legitimate, and that would negatively affect the money gathered for the cause. Nice video, you seem like a really chill guy
Sounds like something a glitcher would say
Sounds like what someone who has never been to this website: www.speedrun.com/me#Glitchless and read the rules would say
@@thefierypaladin126 Sounds like someone who missed the joke would say
This was a well made, informative video. Why are there so many dislikes?
"No clipping" as you CLIP YOUR HEAD THROUGH THE CEILING TO HIT A CHECKPOINT
"No out of bounds" "Stay mostly on the intended path"
Some people seem to make the false connotation that if it's not intended, it is automatically a glitch, which is not true.
A glitch is something that is unintentional so unless it is a feature it is a glitch these things are glitches that is the simple fact of it. You do not choose what is a glitch or not that is the makers of the game in this instance.
Perfect argument against people that say that glitchless category is not really glitchless: Skyrim. Seriously, no one can say what is a glitch and what is a feature in that game.
I can "Speedrun" this game in like 8 hours, watch out
As for someone who wants to start speedrunning, it's a valuable video! Thank you!
"Can you stop!?"
Kinda like Hotine Miami Glitchless actually. It's hard to do a Glitchless run of a seriously glitchy game.
Why so many dislikes? The argument makes sense.
Isn't the side boost thing an actual in game move? As in you're meant to do it?
wo, why does this video have so many dislikes? is there something I'm missing?
no, people who don't speedrun are just weirdly vocal and clearly don't understand what the game is actually like to play
This reminds me of when I woke up at ~3 am to watch a glitchless OOT speedrun, which allowed "Exploits, but not glitches"
Ok I agree with most of this, but surviving a fall you shouldn't should definitely be considered a glitch. I'm cool with the falling damage animation cancel but surviving a fall you shouldn't is most certainly too far.
Problem is, what if they are on the edge of what is and isn't survivable? How do you determine if the fall would have been fatal? Who is the one judging that?
A lot of allowed glitches in this run are simply things that would introduce too much ambiguity and edge cases if banned. Mirror's Edge is a game that has a lot of those edge case style mechanics where it becomes hard to tell hat's broken and what's just used in unintentional ways. Certain bugs happen often enough in regular play that banning them simply becomes more effort than it's worth.
The falls in question are falls from a height that kills you. It's not subjective. It only can be survived because the game was coded to spawn a floor under Faith for one frame after a kick or wall-jump kick or something, so by kicking at a certain point in the fall you basically reset your falling distance.
So there's no edge, you die if you fall off that distance. The only question is: is resetting your jump height by spawning a floor under you for one frame by kicking during a fall allowed or not in the category?
@@agustinlado yeah but the wall kick animation spawns the floor regardless of whether you want it to or not. what if someone means to jump off a wall, but left-clicks on accident? does that mean they have to reset the run because they kicked? kicking is an intended game mechanic, the floor spawning beneath you isn't, but it's there regardless.
gotta love all the randos that watched a cringe compilation and know nothing about the mirror's edge speedrunning community telling you what you should name the category
lmao the dislikes are real.
The comments seem mostly constructive and the video was well mae but it's like 45% dislikes, :thinking:
Glitchless run full of glitches
cuz gdq are cunts
@@fisheatsyourhead maybe a message board?
Not gonna lie at SGDQ I was laughing every time something iffy happened, but after watching this video I get it maybe they should get people who know the run on the couch for things like that.
It should probably be called the "Intended route" instead of glitchless. I think that would clear up a lot of the frustration.
Not really. It would just beg the question, why not make a glitchless category? To anyone unfamiliar with the glitches in the game, they wouldn't notice the glitches that are allowed, so who cares?
No, It's fine. Don't worry about it
Couch Guy is a wonderful person
tententoo20 His name is Drtchops on youtube.
Visual - PS3 u cant handel the truth
Michael Harrison Couch guy looks like jack black
If the game's so bugged that you can accidentally perform something unintended then it's understandable that some "bugs" must be allowed. So that people don't reset 1000 times or get accused of cheating / have their time invalid because they pressed a button in wrong moment lol.
6:40 admits they are glitches. I think any abuse of a mechanic that creates any unintended advantage is a glitch.
about 99 ninjas Did you even watch the video? He's not trying to say they aren't glitches!
_any abuse of a mechanic that creates any unintended advantage_ is called *exploit* , a *glitch* is a _exploitable bug_ . Your welcome
No, I'm pretty sure it's fine :>
a glitch is not necessarily an exploitable bug, just a bug.
deciding whether the glitch was intentional or not is the problem, if the glitch is very easy to accidentally do then it is a hard thing to ban as people would have to reset their whole run over a small easy to do accident, and if it was done on a case by case basis then who would decide if it was intentional or not?
The game places pedestrians and traffic in places where you are not supposed to be. It is clear that you are never intended to be among them as you can walk right through them. By using the fall height reset at 4:58, you reach such a place. If you get there the intended way, the area is different and the pedestrians are gone. Doesn't that make it out of bounds?
Should just call it "couch run"
The music in this video is pretty soothing...
So...What I'm getting from this is, glitches that have no significance or could very easily be executed unintentionally are allowed.
I think that's fine, but there is still a few allowed glitches that I think are too far.
I'm willing to believe that he didn't just make these rules for himself. And although he does have a point about the "Is that a *MAJOR* glitch" thing, I still support changing the name to "No Major Glitches".
In your speedrun you broke three of your rules. You clipped through the world and it looked incredibly broking and it was out of bounds.
If you perform a glitch in a glitchless run it's dead. So yes. Anytime you would "accidentally" glitch the run would be invalid. This is what happens when you put arbitrary and non-sense rules into a speedrun.
But it doesnt count in this game. For no glitches go to absolutely no glitches category or something.
The category is named glitchless. Do you understand that "Glitchless" and "no glitches" means the same thing? Is your only argument a semantic one?
William Rutherford but you don't look only to the category name, look the rules for mirro's edge glitchless runs on speedruns.com
It's not only him who made the rules.
Yes and no. I think Mirrors edge is very hard to distinguish the difference between a glitch and not in the glitchless run. In other games banning glitches is a little easier to do but in mirrors edge I believe this is very difficult and the category is dumb.
Stop talking about what you don't know. Search on the internet, read the rules and done
This video is a good example of "Glitch" vs "Exploit", though it doesn't fallow it exactly.
A glitch is something that is not intended, and an exploit is something intentional used in an unintentended way.
A minor exploit vs major exploit is kind of a key factor, a minor exploit would be like Link rolling to go faster, or side dashing to get up to speed faster. They're intended mechanics that make the game slightly awkward since, rolling everywhere is unrealistic as well as starting off the line sideways. Major exploits are usually what gets into glitch territory. It's where multiple intended mechanics are used together in an unintended way. Such as in Skyrim a minor exploit would be the alchemy/enchantment loop, it becomes a major exploit when you add the fortify restoration potion in the mix boosting the loop to absurd proportions quickly.
This is where Speedrunning has a bit of self regulation, no speed runner would use the alchemy/enchantment loop without the restoration buff, since it would take far too long. Major exploits become glitches very quickly. In a source game, forward b-hopping is fine but the moment you start using wall sliding and backwards b-hops it's a combination of two mechanics creating a "glitched" result, it becomes a major exploit and is against the rules.
The other thing that gets me with "glitchless" rulesets is the "what if it happens on accident" argument, which is stupid since, well it's kind of obvious when things are intentional... since the runner will do it every run and the glitch will benefit them.
If you accidentally glitch through the floor in any speed run and fall to your death, it's a bad run anyway. So why would having a glitch you didn't intend to happen be any different. The argument about glitches accidentally happening is being made so they can use the glitches. People would like to see glitchless runs, but they don't exist because runners are, inherently, incapable of following the rules without bending them as much as possible.
Why are there so many dislikes? Chill out peeps, the fat guy was out of place tbh. Just, play. The. Game.
I've been running for about 2 years now, I'm starting to realize. A truly "glitch less" or unintended run is harder than a base game.
2:09 dude you literally did this at your sgdq run
Don't call it glitchless if it clearly isn't glitchless
Biggie Cheese Everyone in that speedrunning community knows what it means, and agrees with it and likes it. Why do you care about their rules?
Because it´s bullshit? There are glitches used so no matter what they say it´s not glitchless, it´s like if i and everyone around pretended i ´m black, no matter how many people will call me black it will still be a lie for i am white.
If you call a pig's tail a leg, how many legs does a pig have?
4
Aidan Starratt they like it because they can use glitches so they shouldn't call it glitcheless and you shouldn't just "allow it"
+Isaiah Brooks Eveyonestrying to argue that it uses glitches lol, everyone knows that! He knows that! Just ignore the name for a second. This is a category of speedrunning, and these are the rules. What's the problem?
"anything that skips animations" "we do this to cancel the landing animation"
"Is it a glitch if I accidentally kick before landing?" The thing is that you're not doung it accidentally.
So... if a person accidentally does it, it's okay. But if it's done intentionally, it's not? Do you not understand how stupid you sound suggesting that this is okay?
This would mean a person could accidentally kick before landing to get a legit run - realize how useful it is - then have his next run banned for doing the same exact thing.
is there a "legit" version of mirror's edge speerun, meaning no instant max speed no cancel animation no wall stupid height jumps. basically nothing that can't be done with a controller or by abusing some game mechanics? I say that because I'm doing pretty good times without all those technics.
Also regarding the video, I think some rules are unfair for a glitchless, everything that prevents fall damage is a glitch it's not something intended to be in the game, . The name of the run is misleading, people not wanting to change it is not really a problem "no major glitches" is more appropriate
If a football player breaks the offside rule, it's still worth a free kick even if it was an accident. If you want eSports to be taken seriously then, yes, people who glitch unintentionally should have their runs disqualified.
wholly_unholy that's not what is happening, its not him breaking any rules, everything he did in the run is within the rules defined by the community that every runner uses, you can go on the website and check for yourself.
Please don't comment on stuff you clearly do not understand.
I love how people genuinely think black belt is actually like this the whole thing was a joke done by him and his friend to show how actually dumb the glitchless category actually is
You were the runner correct? Dude, you clipped through the ceiling to hit a trigger and went OOB in the run.
I also wanted to express that Glitchless means a casual (fast play) of a game. You don't use any glitches or break any mechanics. You're in the wrong here, dude.
Glitchless is the name of the cathegory. You could name it a mashed potatoes cathegory, it still went by the rules of the cathegory, therefore is a legit run. Also the trigger extends below the ceiling, apparently.
Lord Krythic Their community all collectively decided and agree with all these rules. They even admit the name doesn't really represent the actual run. But why do you care? Ignore the name, and just read the rules. That is what the run is.
Intended% is a meme in the majora's mask community, it's not the same as glitchless
Where OOB? Also, the trigger extends under the ceiling
It's a lot easier to define a major glitch than defining a glitch, because the definition of a major glitch is very malleable and can be whatever you want.
ＩＳ ＴＨＩＳ Ａ ＧＬＩＴＣＨ ？
Mhm come to think of this, some of these are intended mechanics that just happen to look silly but were implemented that way to keep the gameplay smoother and more entertaining. The side jump being full speed, wall runs gaining momentum, and coil jump smoothly gliding over barb wire.
That's the real argument, and the one he should have been making in the video. Design oversights are not automatically glitches.
It's not glitch less tho... U are using exploits.. U said... In the live stream it was still Glitch less it's not
You and most people just missed the point, this is what happens when someone tries to make a fun scrip for a speedrun, it was well done but, speedrun is so popular now that most of the people who watch it are super ignorant to the scene and don't understand how the rules are made.
I don't know much but is very common for the speedrun community to makeup their rules, this is not his rules, is the community rules, you don't like glitchless don't watch it, are you going to ban bunnyhop from every glitchless run on any game running source engine? ofc not.
I fell bad for this guy, he made a huge satire with that scrip for the run and people now think HE is the one who decides the rules, this is what happens when speedrun becomes mainstream.
Sad day indeed.
Kenny yeah... But it shouldn't be called glitch less... If it's not glitch less... Why not call it less glitches...
Don't have a clue, like he said the community was split in changing the name, i guess is not so easy to make everyone agree on a new name.
it's apparently not hard to decide that whether you break the rules or not you get the world record. he's just not good enough for a real run for the game
Kenny we all already know it's a shit game, but just because this guy isn't good enough to do all the skips, he made his own bullshit catagory so he could have the world record for something HE decides "isn't glitchy looking" how do you not see the problem with his "rules" in general that HE BREAKS
“This is allowed because this isn’t dumb.”
your run was literally based on a set of arbitrary rules
most speed game communities makeup rules that don't make 100% sense at first glance, but they decide what they do for good reasons.
Are rules arbitrary if their set by the most knowledgeable community possible in the entire world? Who knows more about Mirror's Edge speedrunning than the guys who run it? Not the creators, or the glitches woulda been patched out.
Maybe find out what 'arbitrary' means.
Lagoon these are the rules for mirrors edge speed runs. If you've ever speedrun a game with a community, this happens a lot.
Yes. So what?
There are NO rules to speedrunning and it is ALWAYS up to the community to define the categories and what is allowed and what not. If someone doesn't agree he/she can start a discussion inside the community.
"It allows you to hit level triggers early...not cool for glitchless" *Clips head through wall to hit level trigger early* "Nah, it's fine".
To be honest, this run wouldn't of copped no where near the amount of controversy if it wasn't for the dude on the couch.. Legit the only reason I STILL haven't watched the SGDQ run. He straight up ruined your run.
Even though he DEFINITELY overused the meme I still enjoyed the run (As someone fully expecting the meme to at least be used)
Evocus I disagree, I thought he was hilarious. It was a great run even if the dude could only make one joke
I take it you watched the "couch dude compilation". I was like you. But when I watched it there really wasn't anything to be triggered about. I quite enjoyed the run and it was very obvious to me that he was just memeing.
When you realize that they run the same game and probably know each other, it was likely just a joke that most people didnt find funny
I agree that they seem to know each other and it's friendly banter, but he was definitely kicking a dead horse 5 minutes into using the joke. His buddy may not have minded but the audience sure did
I do kind of wish there was a category for an "intended" speedrun, where you basically just play the game as intended but really quickly.
Well that begs the question again, whats really 'intended'? With sidejumps, its intended that they go that fast. It's likely not intended to use that to skip the run speed buildup by turning around, but what are they gonna do, ban you from turning your camera?
Wait , is that a glitch?
Reset, cuz you accidently did this and that. Thats an explanation that could be used for any glitch, cuz you accidently clipped into a wall, cuz you accidently scrolled after a wall jump and chain kicked mid air, cuz you fell throw the map and hit an checkpoint, yeah would be pretty stupid to reset for that too right .
It's more about the ease and regularity of them. On of the techniques is literally jumping sideways and then turning.
i dont think the name of the run or the rules should really matter as long as both the runner and viewer is having a good time, people freaking out over it ruin the run more than the "problems" that are apparently there
Derek
you're right, so when I play football and get 4 touch downs because I don't listen to the parameters set up by the rules it's all ok because everyone is entertained. It ruins one of the important parts of speed runs, the competition. Because you fall into a grey area up for interpretation.
Derek just cuz glitchless isnt defined properly, doesnt mean its not wrong to call it a glitchless speedrun. Everyone one else in the gaming world understands Glitchless as "no glitches or aduse of mechanics."
Maverick Andre im not saying its a bad name, i mean people freaking out over the name is pointless
Don't worry about it man, good run!
Then don't fucking call it glitchless then.
I dunno, man, having to upload this video sounds like a glitch to me...
I know not everyone reads the comments... But I love (civil) debate and actually appreciate the feedback! I'll respond to comments that bring up good points for a little bit, and I'll try to clarify my arguments with a response comment :D
Blackbeltginganinja its not glitchless as in without any glitches it is glitch"less" as in less glitches :)
u r an ass
GDQ should ban you
Phantom Knight that's not really constructive criticism but thanks for watching the video and being aware of the discussion we're having
Blackbeltginganinja I feel like you should've called it a no major glitch run instead like that wall kick to save from all damage to I feel seems like it was a major glitch cause your getting to an area you weren't supposed to get to at that time in the way you did
I never thought you were cheating, I just found his commentary hilarious.
There is no difference between this and an any% run except you are choosing to go slower. You say you allow some glitches to keep it interesting, but if you want an interesting run just do any%?
I can understand a glitchless category and allowing some glitches that are simply unavoidable, but I don't agree with some of the glitches that you allow. Skipping animations and avoiding deaths from great height is clearly not how this game was intended to be played.
So in conclusion this is not a glitchless run. It should be named something else as you have picked and chosen rules to suit yourself.
While I agree the name should just flat out be changed, I don't think he chose the rules just to suit himself. At that point why not just exclude one little glitch and call yourself the king of the category. The fact that there are more stipulations makes it a more distinct and more real category instead of just a title-grab.
Adam Nope Alright sure if this category is truly something people have agreed on that makes sense but it doesn't change the fact that some glitches are allowed. I understand that this game is glitchy and it's not worth throwing a run away from something that's beyond your control. But then why are some animation skips allowed but others not? Why can you spam jump off a wall to gain extra speed while not being able to spam jump to double jump? Why can you use the same wall kick exploit to survive a fall too great but not double jump? The rules don't make sense if you want to call it glitchless because it's not glitchless, it's pick and choose whatever glitches you want but not the ones that are too difficult. Which makes no sense because speed running is and was never easy.
It doesn't matter what the community picks as allowed glitches. What matters is how fast you can do whatever you all agreed upon. This category has 50+ registered players on speedrun.com. That's more than a lot of other games. Saying he created the category just to get the world record is not only ignorant, but blatantly slanderous.
Agreed, I was uninformed and made assumptions. Removed the slanderous remark.
Depends how you define "interesting." To me interesting is no glitches and/or exploits but using natural shortcuts built in the map.
He talked about not looking silly but then started allowing exploits that look silly. They should be another category - so instead of having a "no glitch" run full of exploits, call it a run using exploits
You could rename it to "Jankless", that would explain why only certain glitches are banned.
I swear just ban EVERYTHING not intended and play the game on the exact path and the exact pace the developers intended.
Who determines what is and isn't intended? What about unintended things that happen regularily and unintentionally in regular play such as clipping through guards? There is a chase scene in the game where you can actually outpace the guy you're not meant to be able to catch. You get into so many edge cases and subjective judgement calls that it's just not worth it. Hell the whole side jumping thing is a perfect example.
who gives a fuck? like, what's your point? oh boohoo the devs are mad that people used their broken ass game in a broken ass way. well news flash... they aren't - the mirrors edge devs love the speedrunning community my g
I like to think of speed runs as having quite a few different categories:
Any%: get to the end as fast as possible. No other rules.
Low%: you can take as much time to get to the end as you need, just try to do as little of the game's content as possible
0%: get to the end straight from the start doing no missions or levels at all, as fast as possible. (Usually this is reserved for extremely broken games)
100%: do everything that contributes to 100% game completion as fast as possible.
True 100%: do LITERALLY EVERYTHING in the game, even stuff that would not contribute towards 100%, such as Easter eggs etc.
Glitchless: do not use any major, game-breaking glitches. Minor glitches are allowed. (The idea of this is to just glitch...less)
T3G (or True To The Game): no glitches or exploits are allowed. (This is much stricter than Glitchless, and is intended to encourage people to play the game how it was made to be played. This is a basic "get through the level as normal as fast as you can" run)
'Blind': try to get through the game as fast as possible without having played the game before.
Blindfolded/true blind: get through the game as fast as possible without seeing the screen.
2P1C (Two Players, One Controller): do the run with two people, each taking one half of the controller. Typically reserved for NES and SNES titles.
NG+ (New Game Plus): get through the game as fast as possible using a save that has already completed the game. Typically done with games like Dark Souls etc.
I'm sure there are a bunch more that I've forgotten, but I can't think of any more right now.
its supposed to be completely glitchless.. that means NO GLITCHES AT ALL! if it happens by freak accident (like most bethesda games) sure its fine, but wall boosting in mirrors edge is an exploit. if you were going to use glitches, just do a regular any % run.
Yes, because a couple people on the internet control the rules of speedrunning, and not the community that surrounds it. I agree, it should be called something slightly less misleading, also I think exploits are slightly different then glitches.