Terraria 1.4.4 Armor Changes in 2 minutes

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  • Опубликовано: 14 окт 2022
  • Terraria 1.4.4 introduced many armor changes that drastically changed some armor sets! Today we're exploring what the changes are and why some armors are better than others now.
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    Terraria 1.4.4 New Update
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    Terraria is an action-adventure sandbox platformer game developed by Re-Logic. Dig, Fight, Explore, Build: The very world is at your fingertips as you fight for survival, fortune, and glory. Will you delve deep into cavernous expanses in search of treasure and raw materials with which to craft ever-evolving gear, machinery, and aesthetics? Perhaps you will choose instead to seek out ever-greater foes to test your mettle in combat? Maybe you will decide to construct your own city to house the host of mysterious allies you may encounter along your travels?
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Комментарии • 250

  • @GitGudWO
    @GitGudWO Год назад +853

    RIP Obsidian Armor

    • @thebevil8127
      @thebevil8127 Год назад +112

      sad to see it nerfed but considering the fact that it could carry you through all three mech bosses- for a early game armor set- i can see why it was nerfed.
      but hey, we still have the tavernkeep sets for whip focused builds! Right?
      Edit: my bad obsidian armor is not pre-boss

    • @crawlin1572
      @crawlin1572 Год назад +3

      Yeah

    • @hgnag4986
      @hgnag4986 Год назад

      (Rest in piss)

    • @Dingodang
      @Dingodang Год назад +21

      A little unfortunate, felt like the only really good set for summoner

    • @jonathanprimo2720
      @jonathanprimo2720 Год назад +1

      Hey git, F for the obsidian armour

  • @somedude4087
    @somedude4087 Год назад +367

    clarification on miner set, it was changed from nothing on body and legs and 30% mining sped set bonus to a 10% mining speed on legs and body each and 10% mining speed set bonus, so now there is a use from the pieces on their own without a set

    • @crawlin1572
      @crawlin1572 Год назад +2

      True

    • @Lystr0saur
      @Lystr0saur Год назад +1

      Yep.

    • @chasewilson7208
      @chasewilson7208 Год назад +34

      quick tip the ultrabright helmet works for the set bonus

    • @sutarn_gamer4159
      @sutarn_gamer4159 Год назад +15

      I think the miner set was underrated or still is. It's insanely quick, i even shocked people i played with, with how fast i mined.

    • @somedude4087
      @somedude4087 Год назад +17

      @@sutarn_gamer4159 I mean, you have close to no armor and normal spawnrates, also almost no damage boosts so, you are quite vulnurable in it

  • @webbergaming1873
    @webbergaming1873 Год назад +405

    "Solar Armors shield now scales with melee damage bonuses"
    Me : Beats the game using the solar flare shield being the only weapon

    • @Craglicious
      @Craglicious Год назад +25

      Aight, I'll be back in 10 hours

    • @dracobirb7563
      @dracobirb7563 Год назад

      @@Craglicious you almost done lol?

    • @miiirak8470
      @miiirak8470 Год назад +1

      @@Craglicious been 10 hours

    • @LunicornSZRK
      @LunicornSZRK Год назад +10

      Psycho knife / Solar dash will deal insane amount of damage

    • @nickiam_
      @nickiam_ Год назад +1

      @@Craglicious So?

  • @fairiz375
    @fairiz375 Год назад +30

    They really took obisidan armor's powers and gave it to later summoner armors. Which is good for the scaling since obsidian armor was too damn strong before

  • @MrHubcio666
    @MrHubcio666 Год назад +144

    Shadow Armor is so fun right now when stacked with Magiluminescence

    • @Defetyre
      @Defetyre Год назад +35

      Yep, i heard that being able to move your character without it taking 4 seconds to turn around can be quite enjoyable

    • @LoraLoibu
      @LoraLoibu Год назад +5

      nyoom

    • @damienearl8302
      @damienearl8302 Год назад +6

      Sad that it got rid of the melee speed, though...

    • @calebshmanderson
      @calebshmanderson Год назад +1

      It's so stupid I love it

    • @lekarz_birb4087
      @lekarz_birb4087 Год назад +1

      @@Defetyre dash accessories exist

  • @loganharris7801
    @loganharris7801 Год назад +116

    Glad to see Redigit actually paying attention to summoner armors other than obsidian armor.

    • @pastatheh7041
      @pastatheh7041 Год назад +11

      and also slight attention to some sentries. the vortex sentry from moonlord, sentries now being affected by marks, and +1 sentry for stardust armor... wish we had more sentry changes or even more sentry weapons.
      tho i hope we will get ranger stuff and maybe mage stuff in the next "final" update, warrior and summoner got big changes, so why can't other classes have changes too? ranger definitely lacks an update. mage has a pretty interesting change with mana regen tho, now you don't entirely depend on mana flower bottle and tons of mana potions.

    • @RoyTheBlacksmith
      @RoyTheBlacksmith Год назад +7

      @@pastatheh7041 summoner is still a pain in the ass to play tho, the summon's A.I. sucks, and the only good summons is late-hardmode

    • @emreyuksel2314
      @emreyuksel2314 Год назад +3

      @@RoyTheBlacksmith sanguines and blades?

    • @kojikarasake6969
      @kojikarasake6969 Год назад +1

      @@RoyTheBlacksmith exactly. That's why I always play Melee/Ranger

    • @user-ec8xg3yq3f
      @user-ec8xg3yq3f Год назад +1

      @@RoyTheBlacksmith just install amulet of many minions for ai changes

  • @ChurroLightyear
    @ChurroLightyear Год назад +20

    first time i went chlorophyte armor instead of turtle. Chlorophyte absolutely shreds stuff at that stage of the game. The extra defense isnt worth it with 300+ dps during plantera

    • @genethemineman
      @genethemineman Год назад +2

      i prefer turtle cuz i hug plantera often

  • @zememerr2329
    @zememerr2329 Год назад +83

    Calamity has a 4th Shroomite helmet dedicated to Flamethrowers, I wonder if they’ll get rid of it when they port to 1.4.4?

    • @crawlin1572
      @crawlin1572 Год назад +5

      Idk

    • @coIlgnu
      @coIlgnu Год назад +4

      Because vanilla only has 2 flamethrowers

  • @sbevemoment
    @sbevemoment Год назад +39

    Molten armor also prevents you from taking fire damage but im not sure if its new or not

    • @MasterLGI
      @MasterLGI Год назад +10

      Yeah that was a 1.4.1 change I think

    • @eurybiaball63
      @eurybiaball63 Год назад +2

      You’re technically right. A full set of molten armor denys the On Fire! effect

  • @bandiddums
    @bandiddums Год назад +11

    Okay I didn't expect to see some of the more obscure armor pieces to be changed as well. The mining armor and the angler set alone makes this update one of the best one yet

  • @LimeLoaf
    @LimeLoaf Год назад +20

    Stardust armor would be cooler with another variation thats more on whips

    • @ErevanDB
      @ErevanDB Год назад +1

      The Star Finger - Hardmode post pillar whip.

  • @undomyexistance5398
    @undomyexistance5398 Год назад +9

    Rip duke fishron,can’t make like 10 videos a day about 10 different armors being buffed or nerfed

  • @Shyguymask
    @Shyguymask Год назад +20

    Hallowed Armor was nerfed though?

    • @blackholetree
      @blackholetree Год назад +9

      I found the nerfs and buffs to it balanced out, the ability to dodge insta kills made it feel less rewarding to kill bosses like Daytime EOL, and the nerf really only applies for people who want to beat Daytime EOL (likely summoners)

    • @Shyguymask
      @Shyguymask Год назад +5

      @@blackholetree The nerfs and buffs do not remotely balance each other out. 100% chance to proc every hit instead of 25% makes no real difference, but even ignoring Daytime EoL, the cooldown change is a significant nerf.

  • @cultofmel
    @cultofmel Год назад +3

    Did a Terraria playthrough yesterday and was very excited to see that Chlophoryte got a change. It helped a LOT.

  • @Hello_World_not_taken
    @Hello_World_not_taken Год назад +4

    The obsidian armor was freaking busted, so now it’s just really good for the time

  • @intoxicatedmf3242
    @intoxicatedmf3242 Год назад +5

    You should do a video on some good loadouts and potions to go with them on legendary mode, ive found a lot of success with the shinobi set from the dd2 crossover event, the melee speed and sentry bonuses are awesome and it has pretty good defense

  • @noodlesandeggs1512
    @noodlesandeggs1512 Год назад +3

    I feel like needing obsidian armor while buffing all other summoner armor whip properties was the right call

  • @serverhell1882
    @serverhell1882 Год назад +7

    rubby now vs rubby at the start, a lot has improved

  • @OverTime0092
    @OverTime0092 5 месяцев назад +1

    1:24
    That's a strange balance change

  • @ssctiyo4735
    @ssctiyo4735 Год назад +28

    Finally the Whip class has armor stages

    • @Azazel0183
      @Azazel0183 Год назад +3

      No its only post plant and post ml. they didnt even bother to do it to spider armor, spooky, or hallowed

    • @pastatheh7041
      @pastatheh7041 Год назад +1

      @@Azazel0183 "didn't even bother" i don't think they even wanted to give other armors changes. if they wanted they would already give whip buffs from these armors too.

    • @Azazel0183
      @Azazel0183 Год назад +1

      @@pastatheh7041 Well they could have atleast given spider armor a whip change so it would be worth it to get because everyone just skips it.

    • @locklick_6515
      @locklick_6515 Год назад

      @@Azazel0183 Not giving it to spooky makes sense since it and tiki are like counterparts. Use spooky for minions, use tiki for whips

    • @Azazel0183
      @Azazel0183 Год назад +1

      @@locklick_6515 that doesnt make tiki any better. all they did was make whips have more range. spooky is better and always will be.

  • @Ikro27
    @Ikro27 Год назад +3

    you forgot about the molten armor change, which now gives attack speed and crit chance, in addition to giving physical attack.

  • @crawlin1572
    @crawlin1572 Год назад +23

    Rubby=best terraria RUclipsr

    • @crawlin1572
      @crawlin1572 Год назад +1

      No cap

    • @crawlin1572
      @crawlin1572 Год назад +1

      Um actually-🤓

    • @crawlin1572
      @crawlin1572 Год назад +10

      @@DukeFishron- thank you Mr Duke Fishron, but sadly I didn’t ask😞+ratio.

    • @damnthisisabadname
      @damnthisisabadname Год назад +4

      @@DukeFishron- says the worst terraria youtuber

    • @NoCountryForOldMenToday
      @NoCountryForOldMenToday Год назад +1

      @@DukeFishron- i beat you with prehardmode 1.3 ranger build

  • @danielssss1342
    @danielssss1342 Год назад +12

    Oh so devs finally added increased whip range to other armours while this is good but it should've been there from the start

  • @CalvinWiersum
    @CalvinWiersum Год назад +3

    What do y’all think the best prehardmode summoner armor is now?

    • @poachedpotato68
      @poachedpotato68 Год назад +4

      i guess bee armor now maybe

    • @mark220v
      @mark220v Год назад +2

      obsidian

    • @bananalana1764
      @bananalana1764 Год назад +4

      Its still obsidian, bee still sucks anyway,i used to think that bee is better until i fight wof, with bee armour i never managed to kill it before i run out of my planter box walkway,but when i tried going back to obsidian, i managed to kill wof while only using 2/3 of my walkway.It just to show how shit bee armour is, not how op is obsidian

  • @The-Full-180
    @The-Full-180 Год назад +7

    Anyone else notice crimson armors full set went from 6% to a 9% damage buff? (Nice)

  • @sansalphawolf3293
    @sansalphawolf3293 Год назад

    How did you get the halo?

  • @RaidenKaiser
    @RaidenKaiser Год назад +3

    There was no point in using Hallowed armor when they nerfed it because the dodge frames were the only reason to use it. Its such a pitiful upgrade from tier 3 hardmode ore that it essentially made no sense to use it when they nerfed it to make it youre better off spending bars on tools and weapons, glad they fixed it now I mean still not as good as it used to be but at least you actually have a use for it now just have to not get trapped and only allow yourself to be hit once every so many seconds lol.

  • @projectsanctuary7944
    @projectsanctuary7944 Год назад +1

    I just realized the chlorophyte set bonus Crystal has a leaf in it

  • @orange-hm2to
    @orange-hm2to Год назад +1

    what do u use to edit ur videos

    • @rubbyy
      @rubbyy  Год назад

      Premiere Pro 2020

  • @nova42_
    @nova42_ Год назад

    I think my favorite one is the shroomite helmet change, I can now consistently play dartgun ranger. Truly the best class in the game.

  • @JamesCR779
    @JamesCR779 Год назад +1

    You forgot about the crystal assassin armor set it has a ability to dash if all armor is equipped

    • @theguy6680
      @theguy6680 Год назад +1

      I know it's pretty awesome all though it was in 1.4.1 or 1.4.2

  • @migs192
    @migs192 Год назад

    What's the name of that song again?

  • @nikoccx
    @nikoccx Год назад

    Whip range on tiki and sentry with whip range on stardust is literally the best buff/QoL change ive ever seen in this game. Finally after nerfing obsidian armor we have other whip buffing eq, and endgame loadout is finally worth calling it late game.

  • @DiegoHernandez-vv3iv
    @DiegoHernandez-vv3iv Год назад +1

    It was weird that the best summoner armor was in prehardmode lol.

  • @blackscreen6799
    @blackscreen6799 Год назад

    The only thing that might help me would be hallowed armor buff

  • @mecha2515
    @mecha2515 Год назад

    The Music makes it More intertainment by watching this video

  • @skitzixd3293
    @skitzixd3293 Год назад +4

    Still weird why they update post ML armor

    • @areshaistg
      @areshaistg Год назад +2

      post ML bosses 🧐🧐🧐

  • @Jake-nc9sc
    @Jake-nc9sc Год назад

    The summoner buff bruh

  • @Thrillix
    @Thrillix Год назад +5

    rest in peace literally every single pre-hardmode summoner

    • @somedude4087
      @somedude4087 Год назад +4

      wot?
      if you about obsidian armor nerf
      then that sounds like a skill issue

    • @masteraxis332
      @masteraxis332 Год назад

      @@somedude4087 Yes, Mr Skill Issue, we already saw you.

    • @somedude4087
      @somedude4087 Год назад +1

      @@masteraxis332 dunno what you on about, don't have a problem with obsidian armor

    • @locklick_6515
      @locklick_6515 Год назад

      Summoner is still really strong in prehardmode. Obsidian being nerfed doesn't make it bad, it just brings it in line with bee armor.

  • @IvhersonS.
    @IvhersonS. Год назад +2

    This content is very informative, thank you..(i'll subscribe aswell to see more)

  • @r6er854
    @r6er854 Год назад

    what did cobalt armor do???

  • @allhui5828
    @allhui5828 Год назад +3

    But... man, blessed armor no lobger is usefull agaist insta kill enemies
    Also, at least wearing evoker, has the lowest damage iv'e seen in hard mode, and... low invocations

  • @MarkelESP
    @MarkelESP Год назад +3

    Imaginate nerfear una armadura que nadie usaba y era una basura

  • @jaamapplesauce3066
    @jaamapplesauce3066 Год назад

    Tbh im just wondering what piece of music that was lol

  • @TheEternalCrow
    @TheEternalCrow Год назад

    It was calamity patch aswell 🤔

  • @BlackTer03
    @BlackTer03 Год назад +6

    RIP Whip master

  • @soda_souls
    @soda_souls Год назад

    Music?

  • @isaacz7208
    @isaacz7208 Год назад +5

    They did Obsidian Armour dirty

  • @wolhaiksong2558
    @wolhaiksong2558 Год назад

    Next patch they should put Obsidian Armor to sleep and turn it in a vanity set.

  • @Nx042
    @Nx042 Год назад

    > Showcases stat buffs that increases damage
    > Doesn't attack
    lojik

  • @aldeenithegreat
    @aldeenithegreat Год назад +2

    does the Stake Launcher count as a bow to the Shroomite Helmet?

    • @Deniyelo
      @Deniyelo Год назад +3

      Yes, it counts as a bow and recieves bonuses from the arrow helmet

    • @aldeenithegreat
      @aldeenithegreat Год назад +1

      @@Deniyelo thanks!

    • @Deniyelo
      @Deniyelo Год назад +3

      @@aldeenithegreat atleast, I think, I am not 100% sure, but it seems logical, sorry if it doesn't...

    • @DigitalWolverine
      @DigitalWolverine Год назад +2

      It’s a repeater. Repeaters are considered “arrow” damage, so it’ll take bow buffs from the appropriate shroomite headgear.

  • @duckseason5325
    @duckseason5325 Год назад +1

    2:31 seconds.

  • @speakrain5310
    @speakrain5310 Год назад +1

    whats the music?

    • @yamom6996
      @yamom6996 Год назад +2

      bubblegum animal crossing but sped up, i think

    • @LimeLoaf
      @LimeLoaf Год назад +1

      K.K bubblegum

  • @freyafl0w
    @freyafl0w Год назад +5

    who tf is this crawlin guy here?

    • @crawlin1572
      @crawlin1572 Год назад +2

      Idk he just loves commenting.

  • @LanaIsUnderrated
    @LanaIsUnderrated Год назад

    They really did Obsidian dirty
    They have moved it from S to then B tier and now into D tier
    I mean heck, even the Bee armour is better now

    • @-hp4637
      @-hp4637 Год назад

      Obsidian is still the best summoner armor in pre-hardmode. It was nerfed because it can carry you on the way up to moonlord.

  • @magoichi75
    @magoichi75 Год назад +3

    TFW summoner gets hosed once again.

  • @s.sinster
    @s.sinster Год назад +1

    swap buff and nerf in the thumbnail cause it doesnt aline with the goddamn arrows do it now!!

  • @crawlin1572
    @crawlin1572 Год назад +1

    Rubby moments

  • @kingfrosti8282
    @kingfrosti8282 Год назад +1

    How to get bee I just want bee

    • @mikofanboy9711
      @mikofanboy9711 Год назад

      you use Sparkling Honey
      it's from Bee Queen (Master mode)

    • @randomguy9941
      @randomguy9941 Год назад +1

      how to bee:
      step 1: bee

  • @crawlin1572
    @crawlin1572 Год назад +2

    Rubbeans chain

  • @deadspace2595
    @deadspace2595 Год назад

    All those buffs and yet, adamantite armor is still inferior as fuck to Titanium. You can't even convert it with shimmer, adamantite turns into orichalcum, this is bullshit

    • @Tree_-wp5zn
      @Tree_-wp5zn Год назад

      That's not how you convert ore... You need the chloroplast extractor..
      Shimmer just downgrades ore.

    • @deadspace2595
      @deadspace2595 Год назад

      @@Tree_-wp5zn and you get that when? once you get chlorophite, so once titanium and adamantite become inferior and pretty much useless to you. Chlorophyte extractor is more of a fun little thing that only really affects the dungeon evil chests, and can be used for getting some building materials.

  • @logansmith6342
    @logansmith6342 Год назад +2

    Bubble gum kk let's go
    Obsidian armor needed the nerf I think we can all accept that
    And hallowed needed it

  • @BenjieFeruelo
    @BenjieFeruelo Год назад +3

    Me: as a Summoner
    *DAMN BRO SUMMONER AS WEAK ASF IMA SWITCH MELEE*

  • @peasantb100d
    @peasantb100d Год назад +2

    They massacred my boy obsidian Armor

  • @darkkrafter
    @darkkrafter Год назад

    I had hoped the obsidean armour would be buffed this update since last update it bacema amlost usles

  • @reapergd741
    @reapergd741 Год назад +1

    i hate relogic for nerfing obisidian armor i loved it lol

  • @nacl4988
    @nacl4988 Год назад +5

    They really did just nerf Obsidian armour 20 times in a row didn't they?

    • @alfasolmega4458
      @alfasolmega4458 Год назад

      And yet Orichalcum gets an 8% damage buff. Seriously, that set’s broken for the mechs and even usable for Plantera.

  • @aleksandrakurp5733
    @aleksandrakurp5733 Год назад +4

    No more glass cannon summoner :(

  • @brickandmortar7
    @brickandmortar7 Год назад

    obsidian armor wasnt even op why did they nerf it that hard now its useless

  • @143jcm
    @143jcm Год назад

    Why do the majority (it seems) of terraria youtubers never speak? No hate its just something ive noticed

    • @rubbyy
      @rubbyy  Год назад +1

      i actually speak in my recent videos, i just dont speak in this one because it's more of a quick showcase video

    • @143jcm
      @143jcm Год назад

      @@rubbyy Ah, makes sense. Great video btw!

  • @austineder6547
    @austineder6547 Год назад +1

    10000 viewer

  • @xSharpW
    @xSharpW Год назад

    Obsidian armor always taking Ls what the heck.

  • @verniu
    @verniu Год назад

    Mi mamá me trajo
    coquita y un taco
    mañana no me baño
    me gusta el anime...

  • @Deadpool25K78
    @Deadpool25K78 Год назад

    Bruh, that isn't how you showcase.

  • @pavlekovacevic5787
    @pavlekovacevic5787 Год назад

    No they didn't watch it

  • @crawlin1572
    @crawlin1572 Год назад +3

    But fr fr the best part of the video was this: Amongus twerking 10 hours

    • @crawlin1572
      @crawlin1572 Год назад +1

      Thanks I needed that

    • @crawlin1572
      @crawlin1572 Год назад +1

      Your welcome

    • @Popcorn-gt5lr
      @Popcorn-gt5lr Год назад +4

      This guy is talking to himself

    • @Ayaya101
      @Ayaya101 Год назад +1

      @@Popcorn-gt5lr He's crazy 👀👀👀

    • @crawlin1572
      @crawlin1572 Год назад +1

      @@Ayaya101 nah I am just a rubby fan.

  • @crawlin1572
    @crawlin1572 Год назад +1

    True

  • @Superkal006
    @Superkal006 Год назад +1

    Not very new

  • @Jar_Jar_Twinks
    @Jar_Jar_Twinks Год назад

    you missed a lot, and got a ton of stuff wrong.

  • @Charysm
    @Charysm Год назад +4

    Summoners deserved the nerf,
    IF MELEE HAD TO BE WORSE, SO DOES SUMMONER!
    EDIT: YALL ARE SHEEP AND YOU KNOW DEEP DOWN THE TERRABLADE SUCKS
    BLAME THE SCAREDY CAT RANGERS AND MAGES FOR THIS MELEE AND SUMMONERS

    • @crawlin1572
      @crawlin1572 Год назад +3

      Yeah I think that as a ranger myself.

    • @thebevil8127
      @thebevil8127 Год назад +9

      how is melee worse now? genuinely wondering.

    • @schmingbeefin4473
      @schmingbeefin4473 Год назад +9

      Both Melee and Summoner are lik 3x better in this update lmao.

    • @plutoisaplanet5331
      @plutoisaplanet5331 Год назад +23

      Melee, worse? You're out of your mind if you think the reworks to melee aren't anything but improvements.

    • @YataTheFifteenth
      @YataTheFifteenth Год назад +6

      wym melee being worse? because melee is actually melee now?

  • @ahmoin
    @ahmoin Год назад +1

    bro use ur voice or ima unsub

  • @Asronite
    @Asronite Год назад +9

    I think obsidian armor was way too op but its overnerfing

    • @jacksonholder2987
      @jacksonholder2987 Год назад +9

      Not particularly. On paper, adding whip speed and range sounds fairly benign. However, a whip speed increase is effectively the same as a damage increase (attacking 50% faster = 50% more damage dealt). Not only that, but the armor also granted a staggering 31% summon damage. Meaning that with the numbers at 1.4.3, the armor granted a staggering 65% damage increase to whips, to say nothing of the minion damage (and the old 81% damage increase with the release numbers). For comparison, the Molten armor set only grants 31% increased damage, to only melee weapons. The whip range was also invaluable in letting you play much safer than you would with other armor sets. The outlaw armor was simply too good for its tier, no matter how you cut it. With the numbers it has now, it falls in line with other armor sets in the same tier, which seems perfectly fine to me. They even realized how good the whip range was, and added it to the tiki and stardust armor sets.

    • @Asronite
      @Asronite Год назад +10

      @@jacksonholder2987 im ok with nerfing whip speed but nerfing range is making it unreliable against wof etc since you need to stay same line as melees and melees have defenses but you dont.

    • @Saowli
      @Saowli Год назад +2

      @@Asronite yeah, whips are shit against WoF.
      I just go melee with sunfury + vampire frog then i swap back to pure summoner when i enter hardmode.

    • @Asronite
      @Asronite Год назад +2

      @@Saowli thats the point. We have no good reason to use whips till post mecha

  • @myfatassdick
    @myfatassdick Год назад

    Damn good bye old friend
    Shadow armor melee speed was always my go to especially yeeeaars ago back when muramasa was really good and that armor made it even better
    Which actually looking at the patch notes it seems like it’s damage and speed is back to its former glory and now even has that extra attack
    You win some and you lose some