It was very unsportsmanlike and while the danger was maybe low hence only yellow overall Pendergast was lucky. As an Irishman, I’m hoping he’ll never do that again.
I suspect the decision of yellow was impacted by the fact that when Prendergast is coming in, the Fijian is about to kick and Sam is caught in no man's land where once the kick happens, he can't legally tackle but is committed to the direction he's travelling. It's a late action by the Fijian which leaves no time for Prendergast to react, like dipping. I'd still have given a red myself, but I think they've factored that into the decision.
You can bet your last dollar that if the roles were reversed and it was a Fiji shoulder into the face of Prendergast it would have been red card all day long.
What about if Freddie Stewart takes his opposite number out of the game with a shoulder to the head? Because he did that and his red card was rescinded.
I just cant agree with this! Officiating is usually consistant and therefore consistantly bad at times, bad for both sides. For years we have heard that referees have shown preference to NZ, England, SA in their over physical nature. Now that Ireland has joined the top elite consistantly in rugby rankings have been added to the teachers pets category. There was another incident in the Ireland v Fiji game where the ref phrased a question to the tmo which tied the tmo's hands and when there was a clear infringement the ref then wasnt sure how to restart the game. Its hard not to see games through a bias, I though it was a red card for Sam because I thought it was dangerous contact to the head irrespective of there not being a HIA or jaw injury but I think that doesnt matter as that was pure good luck and it could have been different with the very same contact. But there isnt this malevolent refereeing. Maybe a team deploying the dark arts in a partcularily sneaky manner in the scrum say can be missed but this a very obvious moment of foul play and the officials simply got it wrong but not with preferential treatment. Ive seen Porter penalised at the scrum for not keeping his hips square and yet Genge (I think) doing the same thing in the same game and not penalised, was it bias? No i dont think so, I think Porter was being watched closer due to a few collapsed scrums where he was seen as the 1st culprit.
I think it’s the new “standard” - if you were right about referee being biased then Ireland would have gotten a red for the Argentinian who had [more forcefully than Prendergast] head butted Crowley. Based on what I’d term the original standard [head saftety] I would have classed both as reds - the Argentinian’s a deeper shade [of red] to be perfectly honest. Both got 10 minutes!
That's a wonderful looking beast you have there. Thanks, as ever, for your incisive comments and may you all at the farm have a great Christmas. Best wishes.
@cathalsheehan9596 clouded opinion,. It was direct contact shoulder to the head, no mitigation plus it was deliberate, fully versed on the laws obviously you are clearly only up to yellow and haven't reached the chapter that covers red
@@michaelbyrne2381 It was direct head contact...you are forgetting about the part called force, the level of force was very low which impacts the level of danger in the hit. The direct head contact meant the hit reached the yellow card threshold but the low level of force meant the hit never reach the high degree of danger threshold which is required for the hit to be a red card. Mitigation doesn't matter in regards to a red card because due to the mid/low level of danger the hit isnt a red card anyway, the mitigation section will determine weather its a yellow card or just a penalty though. Yeah this opinion of yours just tells me you dont know the laws very well...let me guess, you think its a red card because Brian O'Driscol said it was 🤣
@@cathalsheehan9596 might want to spell his name correctly before making a comment. Prendergast can count himself very lucky and even more so as he's starting Saturday.
I just learnt something today from Nigel’s interpretation of the laws. “How the officials think”. So the laws are subjective to the officials emotions. Interesting take here
I like his explanation of how Prendergast call could have gone either way. Now red's only 20 mins it's not really a big deal. When he explains it depends how they feel in terms of degree of danger, I expect you would take into account the background e.g. the reputation of both sides with regard to foul tackling. As Fiji got a worse rep for this, yes if it was a Fiji player expect a red
That's all considered in step 2 of the protocol, its step 3 that determines if its a red card or not which is degree of danger...which Nigel points out wasnt high.
@@cathalsheehan9596he agrees though, after watching it again that those believing it should be red would have been right. He could have broken the players jaw, so how is that not a high degree of danger?
@@ocodeskamcdbsm "Could have broken the players jaw"...come off it now, the Fiji player barely felt it bar the period he spent play acting trying to get the referee to review the hit...
On the penalty try for France, the Argentina player was trying to stop the French player from scoring a try as is the one of the goals of the game. So what would be the difference be, if for example the Argentina player kicked the ball into touch, would that then also constitute a penalty try?
Nigel, would you ever consider going back as a TMO.. would love to see you involved in some way.. or even as a pundit?? From one of your many Irish fans..
Great video! Huge thanks for your insight on the Ref decisions due to Montoya and Gonzales. I wish all viewers of other channels took some time to see what is your proffesional opinion before blasting the Ref. As an Argie I thought Williams and his TMO did very well until the last 7 minutes, whence the Ref seemed to have swallowed his whistle and the TMO had a black screen, given a number of clear Irish penalties.
This is so bad for the future of rugby if refs are allowed to base decisions on the level of danger instead of intent. All this means is there are more room to negotiate the "entertainment" value of their decision, and not the spirit of the sport. Was so scared about the half of Ireland that will switch off their televisions. Broadcast rights are ruining the spirit of the sport. If you try to make popular decisions, you're in the wrong game. Make the right decisions - That is rugby.
As an Ireland fan, Prendergast was very lucky. On another day with another TMO it could well have gone red. I hope Prendergast learns his lesson and realises this type of behaviour is not acceptable.
@@OscarOSullivan Please accept my sincere and humble apologies and rest assured that from this day forth I will make it my top priority in life to emulate your exceptional standards of pedantry. Thank you so much for setting me on the right path🙏🏻
Does it make any difference if it was an intentional "cheap " shot ?? It was the 2nd time I had seen Prendergast play and he looks a fine player so I cannot judge whether it was a cheap shot or not so have to assume that it was not and correctly Prendergast was given the benefit of the doubt hence have to agree with the bunker decision. Prendergast is now on notice though and should there be another incident of the same nature he may not be so lucky !!!!
Why is there never any video replay of the plays discussed? I appreciate the analysis but it’s ridiculous there’s no video of the plays you are talking about.
Interesting how no one is talking about the arguably worse aus second row hit on sleightholme in the England vs aus game. Off the ball coming hard with a shoulder at a blindside with no chance for bracing. Not even a yellow given. If we want to prioritise player safety then those types of shots need to be clamped down on hard.
For the Prendergast tackle, for me, he is always going up to meet the players head, so that's an aggravating factor, in my opinion. Am I seeing it wrong, or does it look like that to others, too?
I think the premeditation overrules the degree of danger. If a player (without the ball) shoves a flat hand into an opponent's face, it would be a red card - even though there is zero degree of danger. Because it is against the spirit of the game. Same as Prendergast's aimed shoulder. I am still waiting for you to disagree on ANY ref's ruling.
im irish and when i initially saw the prendergast shoulder to the head i was leaning red but could understand just a yellow, then i saw the replay!!! while not being particularly forceful it was down right petulant and was a red all day. it smacked of a new boy trying to prove he was a billy big balls to established internationals
the problem with the Prendergast "tackle" is that it was deliberate foul play. so I can't understand how the level of danger comes into it? to me its a case for a full red card, not even a 20 minute red
Because that is the protocol, also saying its "deliberate" or not its just allow subjectivity to come into it. According to the protocols its NOT a red card.
@@cathalsheehan9596 he shoulders the fijian in the face way after the ball has left the fijian foot. it was clearly deliberate. the protocols are grey you know. we have laws and not rules in rugby, so subjectivity is inherently in the way the game is refereed
@@perthshirewildfoods8760 Plenty of others have said different...no, people's opinion are grey, the protocols are clear as day. I think you are calling it grey because you know deep down based on the protocol the referee and her team got the decision right.
@@cathalsheehan9596 clearly with a name like cathal sheehan, you are irish and cannot have an unbias view on the matter. I am neither irish, nor fijian, i am a neutral and looking at the situation as a neutral
So what did Nigel make of Frizell in the RWC Final where he neither croc or neck rolled a player, but in attempting not to croc role instead let go and fell off the players leg? It shouldn’t really matter if it’s an intentional action (“role”) or not, it should be a red (was obviously a dangerous spot/weight)?
PLEASE PLEASE can World Rugby enforce the ruck law 13: "Players must endeavour to remain on their feet throughout the ruck." All this pontificating about 'croc rolls' etc - they are against this law that's been there for years! Players are off their feet! Same goes for players off feet when they hit the ruck. They need to be in control at the hit - the fall can come after contact.. Both issues happen in every game - it's all well and good talking about the top level with medics, insurances etc. but what about ALL levels? If players and refs allow this at junior and amateur level we end up with horrific ACL injuries that result in players leaving the game and worse, without private medical, a long wait for treatment to just live normally.
If you're digesting that, also consider the ruck offside. Refs have to watch the ruck and players behind hindmost foot (again, never consistently reffed). Consider a 1m gap behind the ruck - clear space for the touch judge to call on. Players are fitter now, less space - force the 1m - adds fatigue to defence and gives more space in attack. We may get a ball passed beyond the 12 on a phase then...
Freddie Stewart had a red rescinded for a shoulder to the head taking Keenan out of the Grand Slam game last year. The yellow was harsh by those standards.
100% straight red card. ridiculous from the officials it was deliberate, straight to the head, given the red cards that have been handed out so far. Thought world rugby was all about player safety yet you let prendergast stay on the field after that
Sadly, although your breakdowns are A1, in detail, and explanation, you need to show the footage, to bring it all to life, stills just don't cut it... 🤦♂️
2:40 Why then the ref didn't call for a penalty in the very last ball of the game? A French player striped away the ball from the Argentine carrier, and the ball ended out of the field.
While the All Blacks were deserved winners against Italy, the officiating left a lot to be desired. I agree with Scott Barrett's yellow card for the croc roll, but where’s the consistency? Scott Cummings saw red for the same offence just two weeks ago. Similarly, the second All Blacks try should never have happened-it was clear even from the second tier that Page-Relo's kick bounced infield and then off Telea's knee, meaning it should have been Italy's line-out. Nika Amashukeli’s involvement here raises eyebrows too, given his track record (the Faiva fiasco in Dublin). And in the second half, Brousset’s handling of Tuipulotu's head-on-head tackle on Negri was baffling. Overruling Trainini to avoid even a yellow card is questionable, especially with today's standards. Meanwhile, the no-arms tackle by Aumua on Brex was somehow deemed a "good tackle," but Cannone was punished under the same offence for much less earlier-again, no consistency. To top it off, the penultimate ABs try came after Brousset appeared ready to penalise the All Blacks for not driving straight but instead let play continue, leading to the score. This isn’t about bias; the All Blacks were worthy winners. But the lack of consistency and the low standard of officiating and TMOing in general is becoming a real concern for World Rugby.
He was technically applying the letter of the law, but because Italy couldn’t contest the scrum as the starting hooker had gone off injured, they were forced to play an hour in 13 men (1 for the red and 1 for the uncontested scrums as a result of the red)
@tdubs9726tw ahh, I remember that one. Even the Irish team thought it was ridiculous and asked if there was anyway to sort it out, so that it wouldn't ruin the game.
@tdubs9726tw to be fair though, he can't be blamed for applying the laws of the game. If he hadn't, people would have bitched and moaned about that too. No win situation
when i saw the croc roll that scott barrett got a yellow for, I immediately wondered how he only got a yellow, when scott cummings got a red for almost the exact same action. in fact, I thought scott barretts was worse
Nigel, always enjoy the show, and understand the issue about TV rights, but it would be really great if you could get to show the actual footage of the issues you talk about in “whistle watch”, rather than just still photos. Here’s hoping they will allow you to show the clips in future episodes.
Gotta say I disagree with a lot of the bunker decisions over the weekend, and here's my reasoning: Pendergrast - bunkers tend to use a David and Goliath principle these days in determining the danger levels. Speaking just about the Fijians, their sheer size and strength seems to lead bunkers to believe they pose more of a danger when tackling and can take a bigger hit when carrying the ball. We saw a couple of weeks ago how two very similar incidents in the Wales v Fiji game ended up in two very different outcomes, one red and one yellow, where both, or neither, should have been red. You cannot judge the level on danger based on the deciding factor of the size of the tackler. Whether you get hit in the head by Brian Lima or Sebastian Chabal, either way you are pretty f***ed. Argentina v France. Yes, I understand the concept of the intentional slap into touch, but what I don't get is how they got to that decision. If the ball did not travel forward, and a huge percentage of people believe it didn't, then the onus is on the officials to decide whether he intentionally knocked the ball into touch. Looking at the replay, I fail to see how they could definitively decide that - he seemed to lack the force in the slap to show that intent.
Gonzalez's action wasn't intentional to knock the ball out. If you scrutinize the video you will se his arm behind his back hoping to catch the ball. TMO and referee got it wrong.
I think the definition is that he intentionally knocked the ball away from the French player, and then he hoped to regather the ball. But the first action is deliberate and the second action is just hopeful. So it's still a foul. 🤷
@ontheright2482 not sure what you are talking about mate. He wasn't in goal and he hit it with his hand. So unless you have a very different definition of a kick, then I'm not sure what you are trying to say here?
@lunny2230 ok. So mr owens said something like "it does not matter if the ball went forward off the hand or not. What matters is that it was a deliberate LEGAL action to stop the try". Agree? So my point is that you can kick the ball into touch to stop a try and its legal, but you cant hit the ball out of the attackers way. It seems like a very silly law to stick to when you are allowed to kick the ball out intentionally to stop a try.
Sorry, but this is absolute BS. The degree of danger and intention and all of that has been largely ignored in recent times. Now, when it suits their agenda, it suddenly resurfaced. Lost a lot of respect for Nigel who I thought had more integrity than being a WR puppet like this. Also avoids giving his opinion...which probably shows he also believes it's BS.
@@pdalaigh Last year Freddie Stewart had a red card rescinded after a more forceful shoulder to Hugo Keenan’s head which took him out of the biggest game of his career. If we are to have consistency, then Prendergast shouldn’t even have received a yellow. Yet you’re here to demand a red for an Irish player for a lesser offence because……? Because Crowley’s position might be threatened? Not a great look.
@@pdalaigh He was blocking a runner. It’s been done a million times in the game. The head contact was incidental to the block and was not enough to remove the Fijian player from the game. Stewart was exonerated for sparking out his opposite number in a more deliberate action but resulted in no card on his disciplinary record. Again, Munster fan? Daly? That’s a Cork name.
Freddie Stewart had a red card rescinded last year. He took his opposite number out of the game. If there’s any consistency, Prendergast’s yellow was harsh by that standard.
Used to enjoy this series, but it feels like WR just use it and Nigel Owen's reputation to mark their own homework. Makes for incredibly frustrating and bias viewing!
Can you deliberately kick the ball out to avoid a try? Yes Can you deliberately throw the ball out (backwards) to avoid a try? No Why a double standard?
@Nigel Owens. I used to like you, but you've lost all credibility (just see the comments on most of your vids). It is a pity that instead of airing your honest opinion you are just a shill for the opinions of World Rugby. Divorce yourself from them and start your own channel where you can air your own opinions
What ever happened to the whistle watch for the RWC final? Is it because even Nigel couldn't stomach pretending that the officials' incompetence in that game was explainable? 😉🤷 Also Prendergasts shot was the most red of any of the pathetically soft reds I've seen lately. So once again a complete lack of consistency from world rugby officials. 🤦🏻♂️
According to your explanation,it's how the Bunker/Officials feels on the day...WTF..Never mind if the players hurting etc,it's all about the officials..😂😂😂😂 Is this WOKE Rugby? Watch out guys,we might hurt someone's feelings with how you play Rugby.
What I find amusing is that there’s people saying it’s double standards and he should’ve seen red. But many of those same people were telling us Freddie Stewart had to be cleared for what was a more dangerous shoulder to the head. So much so that it was rescinded despite him taking his opposite number out of the game. Seems the double standards are the other way around. Irish players should be red carded for offences players from other countries get away with.
It was very unsportsmanlike and while the danger was maybe low hence only yellow overall Pendergast was lucky. As an Irishman, I’m hoping he’ll never do that again.
I suspect the decision of yellow was impacted by the fact that when Prendergast is coming in, the Fijian is about to kick and Sam is caught in no man's land where once the kick happens, he can't legally tackle but is committed to the direction he's travelling. It's a late action by the Fijian which leaves no time for Prendergast to react, like dipping.
I'd still have given a red myself, but I think they've factored that into the decision.
@@falloncj problem is, he wasn't committed until after the ball had been kicked
I love Whistle Watch as your explanations are so easy to understand. No jargon, no bs. I've learned so much about the game from you. Thank you Nigel.
You can bet your last dollar that if the roles were reversed and it was a Fiji shoulder into the face of Prendergast it would have been red card all day long.
What about if Freddie Stewart takes his opposite number out of the game with a shoulder to the head? Because he did that and his red card was rescinded.
No it wouldn’t, there was no force so a red was never going to be issued.
I just cant agree with this! Officiating is usually consistant and therefore consistantly bad at times, bad for both sides. For years we have heard that referees have shown preference to NZ, England, SA in their over physical nature. Now that Ireland has joined the top elite consistantly in rugby rankings have been added to the teachers pets category. There was another incident in the Ireland v Fiji game where the ref phrased a question to the tmo which tied the tmo's hands and when there was a clear infringement the ref then wasnt sure how to restart the game. Its hard not to see games through a bias, I though it was a red card for Sam because I thought it was dangerous contact to the head irrespective of there not being a HIA or jaw injury but I think that doesnt matter as that was pure good luck and it could have been different with the very same contact. But there isnt this malevolent refereeing. Maybe a team deploying the dark arts in a partcularily sneaky manner in the scrum say can be missed but this a very obvious moment of foul play and the officials simply got it wrong but not with preferential treatment. Ive seen Porter penalised at the scrum for not keeping his hips square and yet Genge (I think) doing the same thing in the same game and not penalised, was it bias? No i dont think so, I think Porter was being watched closer due to a few collapsed scrums where he was seen as the 1st culprit.
I think it’s the new “standard” - if you were right about referee being biased then Ireland would have gotten a red for the Argentinian who had [more forcefully than Prendergast] head butted Crowley. Based on what I’d term the original standard [head saftety] I would have classed both as reds - the Argentinian’s a deeper shade [of red] to be perfectly honest. Both got 10 minutes!
@@rocksock7999
Aaaahhh shaddup.
That's a wonderful looking beast you have there. Thanks, as ever, for your incisive comments and may you all at the farm have a great Christmas. Best wishes.
I am Irish and that was deliberate by Prendergast, red all day long, poor officiating.
Being deliberate or not doesnt make it a red card, learn the laws!
@cathalsheehan9596 clouded opinion,. It was direct contact shoulder to the head, no mitigation plus it was deliberate, fully versed on the laws obviously you are clearly only up to yellow and haven't reached the chapter that covers red
@@michaelbyrne2381 It was direct head contact...you are forgetting about the part called force, the level of force was very low which impacts the level of danger in the hit. The direct head contact meant the hit reached the yellow card threshold but the low level of force meant the hit never reach the high degree of danger threshold which is required for the hit to be a red card. Mitigation doesn't matter in regards to a red card because due to the mid/low level of danger the hit isnt a red card anyway, the mitigation section will determine weather its a yellow card or just a penalty though.
Yeah this opinion of yours just tells me you dont know the laws very well...let me guess, you think its a red card because Brian O'Driscol said it was
🤣
@@cathalsheehan9596 might want to spell his name correctly before making a comment. Prendergast can count himself very lucky and even more so as he's starting Saturday.
I just learnt something today from Nigel’s interpretation of the laws. “How the officials think”. So the laws are subjective to the officials emotions. Interesting take here
Nigel was the best ref
I like his explanation of how Prendergast call could have gone either way. Now red's only 20 mins it's not really a big deal. When he explains it depends how they feel in terms of degree of danger, I expect you would take into account the background e.g. the reputation of both sides with regard to foul tackling. As Fiji got a worse rep for this, yes if it was a Fiji player expect a red
We miss you as a ref.
As an Irish supporter, as much as it was his first cap, he should have seen red. It was intentional, high risk and unsportsmanlike conduct.
That's all considered in step 2 of the protocol, its step 3 that determines if its a red card or not which is degree of danger...which Nigel points out wasnt high.
No it wasnt shoulder brush no real.intent😅😅
@@cathalsheehan9596 I disagree and I think Owens, is usually right. I loved him as a red and now on his reviews
@@cathalsheehan9596he agrees though, after watching it again that those believing it should be red would have been right. He could have broken the players jaw, so how is that not a high degree of danger?
@@ocodeskamcdbsm "Could have broken the players jaw"...come off it now, the Fiji player barely felt it bar the period he spent play acting trying to get the referee to review the hit...
On the penalty try for France, the Argentina player was trying to stop the French player from scoring a try as is the one of the goals of the game. So what would be the difference be, if for example the Argentina player kicked the ball into touch, would that then also constitute a penalty try?
Nigel, would you ever consider going back as a TMO.. would love to see you involved in some way.. or even as a pundit?? From one of your many Irish fans..
He does pundit for the BBC at times, alongside the commentators during the match, rather than the on-screen ex-player pundits.
Great video! Huge thanks for your insight on the Ref decisions due to Montoya and Gonzales. I wish all viewers of other channels took some time to see what is your proffesional opinion before blasting the Ref. As an Argie I thought Williams and his TMO did very well until the last 7 minutes, whence the Ref seemed to have swallowed his whistle and the TMO had a black screen, given a number of clear Irish penalties.
This is so bad for the future of rugby if refs are allowed to base decisions on the level of danger instead of intent. All this means is there are more room to negotiate the "entertainment" value of their decision, and not the spirit of the sport. Was so scared about the half of Ireland that will switch off their televisions. Broadcast rights are ruining the spirit of the sport. If you try to make popular decisions, you're in the wrong game. Make the right decisions - That is rugby.
As an Ireland fan, Prendergast was very lucky. On another day with another TMO it could well have gone red. I hope Prendergast learns his lesson and realises this type of behaviour is not acceptable.
So World Rugby can’t use video of the sport they run?
I loved the respect the Fiji players showed to Michael D Higgins too. A nice contrast to Martin Johnson's behaviour a few years back.... 🙊
A few years, more like 20 something years back.
@@OscarOSullivan Please accept my sincere and humble apologies and rest assured that from this day forth I will make it my top priority in life to emulate your exceptional standards of pedantry. Thank you so much for setting me on the right path🙏🏻
Aw bless.
Fine Hereford on co comms there Nigel
Does it make any difference if it was an intentional "cheap " shot ?? It was the 2nd time I had seen Prendergast play and he looks a fine player so I cannot judge whether it was a cheap shot or not so have to assume that it was not and correctly Prendergast was given the benefit of the doubt hence have to agree with the bunker decision. Prendergast is now on notice though and should there be another incident of the same nature he may not be so lucky !!!!
Why is there never any video replay of the plays discussed? I appreciate the analysis but it’s ridiculous there’s no video of the plays you are talking about.
Becuase he is not Fiji..... if Fiji player, it was deffntly Red. This is how World Rugby handles and support top tier teams....
Interesting how no one is talking about the arguably worse aus second row hit on sleightholme in the England vs aus game. Off the ball coming hard with a shoulder at a blindside with no chance for bracing. Not even a yellow given. If we want to prioritise player safety then those types of shots need to be clamped down on hard.
Softy
Was it just completely missed?
Ireland fan here. If the roles were reversed it would have been red imo
For the Prendergast tackle, for me, he is always going up to meet the players head, so that's an aggravating factor, in my opinion.
Am I seeing it wrong, or does it look like that to others, too?
Never knew about the post mark call thats very cool
I think the premeditation overrules the degree of danger. If a player (without the ball) shoves a flat hand into an opponent's face, it would be a red card - even though there is zero degree of danger. Because it is against the spirit of the game. Same as Prendergast's aimed shoulder.
I am still waiting for you to disagree on ANY ref's ruling.
Nigel will always be the best ref
Will there be no whistle-watch for the match that were on this weekend? Irl vs Aus
Watching him in u20s he often did something similar turning his back to stop a chasing player. Needs to rid this from his game
Australia received a red card and the weeks off for the same thing for Kerevi. It's so inconsistent.
Degree of danger is irrelevant when it is deliberate as it appears to be here. IMO
Not according to the guidelines.
im irish and when i initially saw the prendergast shoulder to the head i was leaning red but could understand just a yellow, then i saw the replay!!! while not being particularly forceful it was down right petulant and was a red all day. it smacked of a new boy trying to prove he was a billy big balls to established internationals
Munster fan?
“Not particularly forceful” then it’s unlike to be a red card.
No arms tackle
the problem with the Prendergast "tackle" is that it was deliberate foul play. so I can't understand how the level of danger comes into it? to me its a case for a full red card, not even a 20 minute red
Because that is the protocol, also saying its "deliberate" or not its just allow subjectivity to come into it. According to the protocols its NOT a red card.
@@cathalsheehan9596 he shoulders the fijian in the face way after the ball has left the fijian foot. it was clearly deliberate. the protocols are grey you know. we have laws and not rules in rugby, so subjectivity is inherently in the way the game is refereed
@@perthshirewildfoods8760 Plenty of others have said different...no, people's opinion are grey, the protocols are clear as day. I think you are calling it grey because you know deep down based on the protocol the referee and her team got the decision right.
@@cathalsheehan9596 the laws are applied differently depending on the opinion of the referee on the day!
@@cathalsheehan9596 clearly with a name like cathal sheehan, you are irish and cannot have an unbias view on the matter. I am neither irish, nor fijian, i am a neutral and looking at the situation as a neutral
So what did Nigel make of Frizell in the RWC Final where he neither croc or neck rolled a player, but in attempting not to croc role instead let go and fell off the players leg?
It shouldn’t really matter if it’s an intentional action (“role”) or not, it should be a red (was obviously a dangerous spot/weight)?
As we saw in Scot-SA, it would have been a red if there was a 20m redcard
PLEASE PLEASE can World Rugby enforce the ruck law 13:
"Players must endeavour to remain on their feet throughout the ruck."
All this pontificating about 'croc rolls' etc - they are against this law that's been there for years! Players are off their feet!
Same goes for players off feet when they hit the ruck. They need to be in control at the hit - the fall can come after contact..
Both issues happen in every game - it's all well and good talking about the top level with medics, insurances etc. but what about ALL levels?
If players and refs allow this at junior and amateur level we end up with horrific ACL injuries that result in players leaving the game and worse, without private medical, a long wait for treatment to just live normally.
If you're digesting that, also consider the ruck offside.
Refs have to watch the ruck and players behind hindmost foot (again, never consistently reffed).
Consider a 1m gap behind the ruck - clear space for the touch judge to call on.
Players are fitter now, less space - force the 1m - adds fatigue to defence and gives more space in attack.
We may get a ball passed beyond the 12 on a phase then...
Why don't you do this program for the URC competion as well?
I'm Irish but still think it should have been a red. Can't blame the referee
Nice one Mr Rev, Sir 😘
Intent over degree of danger! I understand Nigel doesn’t want to raffle feathers by scoring referees’ performances
Straight red all day long
Not according to the protocols.
@@cathalsheehan9596 entirely dependent on the subjective decision of force as discussed in the video.
@ The hit was about as low a force as it could be, it was never a red card.
Freddie Stewart had a red rescinded for a shoulder to the head taking Keenan out of the Grand Slam game last year. The yellow was harsh by those standards.
100% straight red card. ridiculous from the officials it was deliberate, straight to the head, given the red cards that have been handed out so far. Thought world rugby was all about player safety yet you let prendergast stay on the field after that
so Nigel you are sitting on the fence !What is your opinion on Prendegarst !!
He always explains things so well
Sadly, although your breakdowns are A1, in detail, and explanation, you need to show the footage, to bring it all to life, stills just don't cut it... 🤦♂️
2:40 Why then the ref didn't call for a penalty in the very last ball of the game? A French player striped away the ball from the Argentine carrier, and the ball ended out of the field.
While the All Blacks were deserved winners against Italy, the officiating left a lot to be desired. I agree with Scott Barrett's yellow card for the croc roll, but where’s the consistency? Scott Cummings saw red for the same offence just two weeks ago. Similarly, the second All Blacks try should never have happened-it was clear even from the second tier that Page-Relo's kick bounced infield and then off Telea's knee, meaning it should have been Italy's line-out. Nika Amashukeli’s involvement here raises eyebrows too, given his track record (the Faiva fiasco in Dublin).
And in the second half, Brousset’s handling of Tuipulotu's head-on-head tackle on Negri was baffling. Overruling Trainini to avoid even a yellow card is questionable, especially with today's standards. Meanwhile, the no-arms tackle by Aumua on Brex was somehow deemed a "good tackle," but Cannone was punished under the same offence for much less earlier-again, no consistency.
To top it off, the penultimate ABs try came after Brousset appeared ready to penalise the All Blacks for not driving straight but instead let play continue, leading to the score.
This isn’t about bias; the All Blacks were worthy winners. But the lack of consistency and the low standard of officiating and TMOing in general is becoming a real concern for World Rugby.
What was the "Faiva fiasco" in Dublin?
He was technically applying the letter of the law, but because Italy couldn’t contest the scrum as the starting hooker had gone off injured, they were forced to play an hour in 13 men (1 for the red and 1 for the uncontested scrums as a result of the red)
@tdubs9726tw ahh, I remember that one. Even the Irish team thought it was ridiculous and asked if there was anyway to sort it out, so that it wouldn't ruin the game.
@tdubs9726tw to be fair though, he can't be blamed for applying the laws of the game. If he hadn't, people would have bitched and moaned about that too. No win situation
when i saw the croc roll that scott barrett got a yellow for, I immediately wondered how he only got a yellow, when scott cummings got a red for almost the exact same action. in fact, I thought scott barretts was worse
Is Perendergast a Farrell understudy...
He’s a bit young to be considering coaching! 😜
Nigel, always enjoy the show, and understand the issue about TV rights, but it would be really great if you could get to show the actual footage of the issues you talk about in “whistle watch”, rather than just still photos.
Here’s hoping they will allow you to show the clips in future episodes.
Gotta say I disagree with a lot of the bunker decisions over the weekend, and here's my reasoning:
Pendergrast - bunkers tend to use a David and Goliath principle these days in determining the danger levels. Speaking just about the Fijians, their sheer size and strength seems to lead bunkers to believe they pose more of a danger when tackling and can take a bigger hit when carrying the ball. We saw a couple of weeks ago how two very similar incidents in the Wales v Fiji game ended up in two very different outcomes, one red and one yellow, where both, or neither, should have been red. You cannot judge the level on danger based on the deciding factor of the size of the tackler. Whether you get hit in the head by Brian Lima or Sebastian Chabal, either way you are pretty f***ed.
Argentina v France. Yes, I understand the concept of the intentional slap into touch, but what I don't get is how they got to that decision. If the ball did not travel forward, and a huge percentage of people believe it didn't, then the onus is on the officials to decide whether he intentionally knocked the ball into touch. Looking at the replay, I fail to see how they could definitively decide that - he seemed to lack the force in the slap to show that intent.
Gonzalez's action wasn't intentional to knock the ball out. If you scrutinize the video you will se his arm behind his back hoping to catch the ball. TMO and referee got it wrong.
Agree, I thought it was pretty obvious.
I think the definition is that he intentionally knocked the ball away from the French player, and then he hoped to regather the ball. But the first action is deliberate and the second action is just hopeful. So it's still a foul. 🤷
@lunny2230 - not sure I agreecmmmu can intentionally kick the ball out when you are in goal. It's not a foul because it's not illegal.
@ontheright2482 not sure what you are talking about mate. He wasn't in goal and he hit it with his hand. So unless you have a very different definition of a kick, then I'm not sure what you are trying to say here?
@lunny2230 ok. So mr owens said something like "it does not matter if the ball went forward off the hand or not. What matters is that it was a deliberate LEGAL action to stop the try". Agree? So my point is that you can kick the ball into touch to stop a try and its legal, but you cant hit the ball out of the attackers way. It seems like a very silly law to stick to when you are allowed to kick the ball out intentionally to stop a try.
Sorry, but this is absolute BS. The degree of danger and intention and all of that has been largely ignored in recent times. Now, when it suits their agenda, it suddenly resurfaced.
Lost a lot of respect for Nigel who I thought had more integrity than being a WR puppet like this.
Also avoids giving his opinion...which probably shows he also believes it's BS.
Red card all the time for any southern hemisphere team!!
An Irish supporter, first cap but should have been red...sorry.
Munster fan?
@Dreyno 👍, but it's still a red cardy friend.
@@pdalaigh Last year Freddie Stewart had a red card rescinded after a more forceful shoulder to Hugo Keenan’s head which took him out of the biggest game of his career. If we are to have consistency, then Prendergast shouldn’t even have received a yellow. Yet you’re here to demand a red for an Irish player for a lesser offence because……? Because Crowley’s position might be threatened? Not a great look.
@Dreyno Sorry my friend, a deliberate shoulder to someone's head?
@@pdalaigh He was blocking a runner. It’s been done a million times in the game. The head contact was incidental to the block and was not enough to remove the Fijian player from the game. Stewart was exonerated for sparking out his opposite number in a more deliberate action but resulted in no card on his disciplinary record.
Again, Munster fan? Daly? That’s a Cork name.
Love your segment...but no defence on this one....should have been a red all day...I would love if you to disagree with refs sometimes if warranted.
There is defence, the protocol clearly shows why it wasnt a red card.
Freddie Stewart had a red card rescinded last year. He took his opposite number out of the game. If there’s any consistency, Prendergast’s yellow was harsh by that standard.
if that was a Bok player he would have been given a 6 game ban. 1 rule for NH teams and different for SH. WR needs to get its act together
Used to enjoy this series, but it feels like WR just use it and Nigel Owen's reputation to mark their own homework. Makes for incredibly frustrating and bias viewing!
Amazing video
I agree re the red that was not a red that was a red
Some fine Hereford's there lad.
Farrel on Esterhuizen penalty only what an absolute joke which cost SA the game...WTF.
so its all subjective
Would you ever consider taking up coaching rather that reffing ?
For me definitely not a penalty try. Knocked back and never intentionally knocked it into touch but rather out of the attackers hand
Ffs, that means Sam Cane should have seen yellow only in the final..
Can you deliberately kick the ball out to avoid a try? Yes
Can you deliberately throw the ball out (backwards) to avoid a try? No
Why a double standard?
Prendergast definitely should have gone
@Nigel Owens. I used to like you, but you've lost all credibility (just see the comments on most of your vids). It is a pity that instead of airing your honest opinion you are just a shill for the opinions of World Rugby. Divorce yourself from them and start your own channel where you can air your own opinions
He wasn’t wearing white shirt. Otherwise would have been red.
That’s a nice cow.
Come on Nige start a farming channel.
Poor officiating, inconsistent. That’s Red for Irish 10.
red
Sam has no malice in him a complete accident end of. Story
That is BS - player safety is buzz words. Means nothing.
Ireland 10 must be sanctioned for unsportsmanlike behaviour
He was, he got a yellow card.
What ever happened to the whistle watch for the RWC final? Is it because even Nigel couldn't stomach pretending that the officials' incompetence in that game was explainable? 😉🤷
Also Prendergasts shot was the most red of any of the pathetically soft reds I've seen lately. So once again a complete lack of consistency from world rugby officials. 🤦🏻♂️
Northern hemisphere decision again 2 tier officiating.
According to your explanation,it's how the Bunker/Officials feels on the day...WTF..Never mind if the players hurting etc,it's all about the officials..😂😂😂😂 Is this WOKE Rugby? Watch out guys,we might hurt someone's feelings with how you play Rugby.
What I find amusing is that there’s people saying it’s double standards and he should’ve seen red. But many of those same people were telling us Freddie Stewart had to be cleared for what was a more dangerous shoulder to the head. So much so that it was rescinded despite him taking his opposite number out of the game. Seems the double standards are the other way around. Irish players should be red carded for offences players from other countries get away with.
And yet in reality, what we are seeing is Islanders red carded for things that the Home Nations are getting away with.
you can't compare the two. very different situations
Yes and with a 10 week ban. Not even a 20 minute red was justified. Full red down to 14 all game
10 week ban? Where is the precedent for that?
@@Cpchurch87Some people can’t accept that Ireland are good at rugby now. By that standard, 10 week ban, no backsies.
Send a very strongly worded postcard to World Rugby outline your outrage. Off you go now, Old Fruit.
@@Dreyno I always see this lad pop up here and on Twitter. Seems to have a serious issue with Irish rugby