It's hard. I'm an INFJ in a leadership position and have been for a number of years. I like having some degree of control over my environment and the tradeoff responsibility is not bad at all. I don't work in a toxic place where I need to manage personalities to that extent. However, that hasn't always been the case and is what prevents me from taking the next step up in my workplace. I was in the same leadership role at a different location across the country and it really tried to break me completely. I had hundreds of employees in a 'not too structured' environment who constantly took advantage of that. And I, as one of many leaders, knew not to fight battles where we were not united. So I stayed in my lane, but it still made my responsibilities much harder. I was constantly having facsimile arguments with people in my head, anticipating what was going to be coming my way. It started leading to panic attacks etc. While things are so different now, I'm still very reluctant to want to go the next step up, despite the large increase in salary. I like having someone over me to take the brunt. The next step up puts me in that drivers seat. And I don't know that it is something I want. The people who like me as a leader really like me. I get top scores in surveys and really do try to listen/solve their problems. I care a lot and I do love to listen/help them. But my battery goes low and I go full INFJ. Sometimes to the point I block off all in/out of emotions and just walk around like a blank slate.
They already know, before taking the position, that being a leader would somehow limit their free will. Consequiently that limit of freewill would limit one's own potential. INFJ and INTJ's real power comes from free style, free thinking.
I agree with much of what you say about Ni and leadership. I am a true INFJ from birth and find I had, because of my time in different job positions(and childhood traumas), a propensity to repress my Ni for Te. One affect on me in the field of leadership was my time in the military. But what is strange is that I never sought the leadership positions. I did not seek them out but they oddly always found me. Now as I am older I naturally avoid leadership positions but they still find me. Partly responsible is the chameleon concept I have had from days in leadership (and suppressing or concealing my Ni in a sensor world) is the philosophy of "fake it till you make it". The opportunities to lead still find me but now, especially after reading both of your books, I am well more equipped in discernment of such opportunities. Thank you for another great video!
We don't really believe in heirarchy, and we're super egalitarian. However, we naturally have a birds eye view on interpersonal and social dynamics which makes us the perfect managers. So we have foresight and can accurately predict the different moving parts. Which is why I always say, if you have this character trait then you need to either put a lot of effort into moving higher to positions of authority at work when you're young. Or start a business. Because people who believe in heirarchy are going to feel VERY uncomfortable when they realise that someone who isn't a nominal leader ends up de facto leader
I'm scared of new responsibilities, terrified actually sometimes. But I'll bravely step up if my team needs me because I care about them and what we're doing. And I know they'll have my back when I take the leap. When I didn't love my job I tried to stay invisible and under the radar to avoid trouble. But I was noticed anyway. I just needed to get out!
E-Type 5 INFJ here. Year 3 as a foreman in my company now. Had to grow into this position because of my level of qualification. In a sense I was lucky, because my team was rather small, usually 2-4 people total. I had time to know the work culture in my company to assess what the standards were - and over time shift then from being the squad leader distinguished by qualification only to being a leader by leading. I would say that was a rather long travel to get there, as I was and partly still am quite conflict-avoidant, even adaptive-submissive perhaps. But I try to grow out of it, which is not easy, because I suffered from severe burn-out in the past. My 2.5 apprenticeship years before my current position were also hell energywise. Life in general was brutal, severance in general. The dichotomy between my body and psychic energylevels is insane - I am as fit as ever on the outside but also ever tired inside. Leadingwise, I never truely was into it by default. Like I never truely liked to drive in public or doing anything in public really - as I was overly conscious in how i was perceived by others and critique thereof. But I actually learned to care less about others really and take the drivers seat without second thoughts. Took only like... 28? years in total😅 like as I often read in the comments... that unfortunately one often starts to "live" as an INFJ only after reaching your early 30s...to somewhat enjoy life... My occupation certainly helped me to grow more assertive, still a good way ahead of me. Lot's more to say on the topic but already to long to read 😅
I was appointed to leadership positions by default as I was the most experienced. I usually fell into this role naturally or because there was nobody else available really. This was the case for my jobs as well as my time in university during my bachelors degree. I usually was the teamlead for research groups etc. But I agree this is not my preferred mode of operating but it was doable because these roles were always meant for a limited time only. I really hated dealing with other peoples drama.
I think I become a natural leader in my peer groups in school because I have a direct vision of what I want to do. People feel very comfortable with people that know what they are talking about, or at least they perceive them that way. I don't really like being in leadership though because there is higher stakes when it comes towards mistakes, and since I care too much about other people, my own self criticisms about myself expediate
I think for the more assertive types, there is probably nothing more frustrating than seeing the people around you struggle and not being able to do as much to help because you aren’t their leader, and it would be crossing boundaries and undermining the person who is the current leader, even if there’s no intention of wanting to do so, just wanting to help. I feel that is far more insufferable for an INFJ than feeling insecure knowing that they can help people, but won’t because they’re too scared to step into a leadership role! Especially because it shows a complete lack of trust in the people around them, and INFJ’s tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and tend to choose trust, even if it can come at a cost. I think more assertive types understand that trust is mutual, and because we trust them to execute the vision, they trust us to create the vision. And because we include them on the creation of the vision and take into consideration their strengths and weaknesses in the execution of it all, they keep us in the loop so we can adjust things so they benefit. As far as leadership avoidance goes, I think here in the US a lot of companies promote those who function from a place of ego and authority, and even if an INFJ were to be offered such a position, I think it would be declined if it’s been calculated and the probability of having to engage in such a way is unavoidable. Although, I personally think some INFJ’s would take on that task if it means restoring balance and removing the less egocentric culture, so people can go to work knowing they at least have an ally instead of an enemy. I feel like those individuals are more seasoned in disarming their own ego as well as others ego, especially within negotiations, conflict, and social settings, to the point that they no longer fear the conflict quite as much as less assertive and confident types.
Hey Ren, Thanks again for answering my question. Your videos really help me self reflect and learn more about INFJs and I'm slowly piecing together what kind of INFJ I am in this way as well. I hope my questions don't bother you at all though since I know I can be abit too much at times. Here are some more questions: 1) Why do people think that INFJs are "too serious"? 2) What other uses does TI have for us? 3) was there ever a time where an INFJ never liked another INFJ or another mbti type person immediately after meeting them?
It's hard. I'm an INFJ in a leadership position and have been for a number of years. I like having some degree of control over my environment and the tradeoff responsibility is not bad at all. I don't work in a toxic place where I need to manage personalities to that extent. However, that hasn't always been the case and is what prevents me from taking the next step up in my workplace. I was in the same leadership role at a different location across the country and it really tried to break me completely. I had hundreds of employees in a 'not too structured' environment who constantly took advantage of that. And I, as one of many leaders, knew not to fight battles where we were not united. So I stayed in my lane, but it still made my responsibilities much harder. I was constantly having facsimile arguments with people in my head, anticipating what was going to be coming my way. It started leading to panic attacks etc. While things are so different now, I'm still very reluctant to want to go the next step up, despite the large increase in salary. I like having someone over me to take the brunt. The next step up puts me in that drivers seat. And I don't know that it is something I want.
The people who like me as a leader really like me. I get top scores in surveys and really do try to listen/solve their problems. I care a lot and I do love to listen/help them. But my battery goes low and I go full INFJ. Sometimes to the point I block off all in/out of emotions and just walk around like a blank slate.
They already know, before taking the position, that being a leader would somehow limit their free will. Consequiently that limit of freewill would limit one's own potential. INFJ and INTJ's real power comes from free style, free thinking.
I agree with much of what you say about Ni and leadership. I am a true INFJ from birth and find I had, because of my time in different job positions(and childhood traumas), a propensity to repress my Ni for Te. One affect on me in the field of leadership was my time in the military. But what is strange is that I never sought the leadership positions. I did not seek them out but they oddly always found me. Now as I am older I naturally avoid leadership positions but they still find me. Partly responsible is the chameleon concept I have had from days in leadership (and suppressing or concealing my Ni in a sensor world) is the philosophy of "fake it till you make it". The opportunities to lead still find me but now, especially after reading both of your books, I am well more equipped in discernment of such opportunities. Thank you for another great video!
We don't really believe in heirarchy, and we're super egalitarian. However, we naturally have a birds eye view on interpersonal and social dynamics which makes us the perfect managers. So we have foresight and can accurately predict the different moving parts. Which is why I always say, if you have this character trait then you need to either put a lot of effort into moving higher to positions of authority at work when you're young. Or start a business. Because people who believe in heirarchy are going to feel VERY uncomfortable when they realise that someone who isn't a nominal leader ends up de facto leader
I'm scared of new responsibilities, terrified actually sometimes. But I'll bravely step up if my team needs me because I care about them and what we're doing. And I know they'll have my back when I take the leap.
When I didn't love my job I tried to stay invisible and under the radar to avoid trouble. But I was noticed anyway. I just needed to get out!
E-Type 5 INFJ here. Year 3 as a foreman in my company now. Had to grow into this position because of my level of qualification. In a sense I was lucky, because my team was rather small, usually 2-4 people total. I had time to know the work culture in my company to assess what the standards were - and over time shift then from being the squad leader distinguished by qualification only to being a leader by leading. I would say that was a rather long travel to get there, as I was and partly still am quite conflict-avoidant, even adaptive-submissive perhaps. But I try to grow out of it, which is not easy, because I suffered from severe burn-out in the past. My 2.5 apprenticeship years before my current position were also hell energywise. Life in general was brutal, severance in general. The dichotomy between my body and psychic energylevels is insane - I am as fit as ever on the outside but also ever tired inside. Leadingwise, I never truely was into it by default. Like I never truely liked to drive in public or doing anything in public really - as I was overly conscious in how i was perceived by others and critique thereof. But I actually learned to care less about others really and take the drivers seat without second thoughts. Took only like... 28? years in total😅 like as I often read in the comments... that unfortunately one often starts to "live" as an INFJ only after reaching your early 30s...to somewhat enjoy life... My occupation certainly helped me to grow more assertive, still a good way ahead of me. Lot's more to say on the topic but already to long to read 😅
I was appointed to leadership positions by default as I was the most experienced. I usually fell into this role naturally or because there was nobody else available really. This was the case for my jobs as well as my time in university during my bachelors degree. I usually was the teamlead for research groups etc. But I agree this is not my preferred mode of operating but it was doable because these roles were always meant for a limited time only. I really hated dealing with other peoples drama.
Interesting topic .
I think I become a natural leader in my peer groups in school because I have a direct vision of what I want to do. People feel very comfortable with people that know what they are talking about, or at least they perceive them that way. I don't really like being in leadership though because there is higher stakes when it comes towards mistakes, and since I care too much about other people, my own self criticisms about myself expediate
I think for the more assertive types, there is probably nothing more frustrating than seeing the people around you struggle and not being able to do as much to help because you aren’t their leader, and it would be crossing boundaries and undermining the person who is the current leader, even if there’s no intention of wanting to do so, just wanting to help. I feel that is far more insufferable for an INFJ than feeling insecure knowing that they can help people, but won’t because they’re too scared to step into a leadership role! Especially because it shows a complete lack of trust in the people around them, and INFJ’s tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and tend to choose trust, even if it can come at a cost.
I think more assertive types understand that trust is mutual, and because we trust them to execute the vision, they trust us to create the vision. And because we include them on the creation of the vision and take into consideration their strengths and weaknesses in the execution of it all, they keep us in the loop so we can adjust things so they benefit.
As far as leadership avoidance goes, I think here in the US a lot of companies promote those who function from a place of ego and authority, and even if an INFJ were to be offered such a position, I think it would be declined if it’s been calculated and the probability of having to engage in such a way is unavoidable. Although, I personally think some INFJ’s would take on that task if it means restoring balance and removing the less egocentric culture, so people can go to work knowing they at least have an ally instead of an enemy. I feel like those individuals are more seasoned in disarming their own ego as well as others ego, especially within negotiations, conflict, and social settings, to the point that they no longer fear the conflict quite as much as less assertive and confident types.
Hey Ren, Thanks again for answering my question.
Your videos really help me self reflect and learn more about INFJs and I'm slowly piecing together what kind of INFJ I am in this way as well. I hope my questions don't bother you at all though since I know I can be abit too much at times.
Here are some more questions:
1) Why do people think that INFJs are "too serious"?
2) What other uses does TI have for us?
3) was there ever a time where an INFJ never liked another INFJ or another mbti type person immediately after meeting them?
Hey Ren, thanks for the timeless wisdom, i think you are in touch with your transcendent self, on your path of spiritualization. 😊
The moustache man INFJ was initially reluctant to lead his party.
That final projection doesnt sound real, but ill keep an open mind.