3 ways to ruin your Tesla battery and how much a new one cost
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2018
- 3 ways to ruin your Tesla battery and how much a new one cost
My referral code: ts.la/sean510
I need to replace my battery: • I need to replace my T...
Teslanomics on battery degradation: • Tesla Batteries Last F...
Battery degradation shared by owners: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Owners can give five friends free, unlimited Supercharging with the purchase of a new Model S, Model X or Model 3 Performance. After September 16, 2018, full unlimited Supercharging will go away and owners will be able to give friends one year of unlimited Supercharging.
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#Tesla #ModelS #ElonMusk 
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Get to the point.
1. Don’t full charge.
2. Don’t empty.
3. Keep it warm.
Thanks. Here’s to hoping more videos have this in their description.
Thanks lol 😂
Last point: cost to replace battery is $15k - $20k
Thank you
4. If and when you can, avoid DC charging. The least DC, the better. Keep DC charging under 40% of total charging.
Bla bla bla ..... 1:don’t charge full, 2:don’t empty, 3:bla bla bla.... and Battery Cost: $10-20k
Thanks. Glad you liked the video.
Dr Aviation, I have 57k miles with a loss of 10 miles of range, I use SC often and charge 80-90% and discharge to 10%. The trick is to not let the car sit at those ranges, drive it immediately and charge it immediately. Blah, blah, blah...
I could actually feel the aging process while watching this.
Thanks - this is exactly what I was looking for hahaha. @Sean Mitchell you should add this summary (but maybe with a less dismissive tone) to your description!
🙂
Thank you, Sean; this was good info. We purchased our long-range model 3 in March of 2018 and absolutely love it.
Thanks for the honest review without trying to cover up your mistakes, and sharing them with all of us that are new to Tesla. For one I am much appreciative of your video Thanks
Thank you for these valuable tips, Sean, though I did get other information as well that charging with SC or home/destination charger would only affect the battery in (at most) just a few percentages. I was shown the same Excel as you have showed, I think. Another thing that I can add here is that it's not good to charge to 100% and then leave the car parked afterwards. So if you are on the way and you sleep somewhere in a hotel near a SC, it's better to start SC in the morning before you leave, instead of the evening before and then leave the car parked all night. Just my 2 cents ;-)...
Funny. I’ve never charged to 100%. When I got my Model 3, it was at 90% because I asked them to do that for me. I was fully aware about battery degregation well ahead of time. I drive a lot but not where I need to use SC. I charge at home every three days. I have my charging limit set for 279mi and I try not to let it get below 80 miles left in usage. Good info and video.
Thanks for the feedback Andre.
I am waiting for the standard range Model 3 so I am interest with the charging strategy. I think Tesla recommends 10%-90% daily range usage and can be charged to 100% on occasional trips. If this is the recommendation I would keep the range to 20%-80% to be safe, no need to stay in the narrower range of 30%-70%.
I don't even see why you'd charge to 100% even on long trips, unless you need exactly 15 extra miles and you don't want to stop again for charging. You charge faster below 80% than above 80% so your time is better spent driving more and stopping more frequently (but for a shorter duration).
I agree, but it doesn't hurt to charge to 100% before a trip as long as you're not leaving the car sitting there fully charged for a while.
The model 3 manual states to plug the car in when you can to help preserve the battery. That doesn't match your practice is charging every 3 days or so.
That advise is very useful not just for cars but to all other devices or appliances that use Lithium Ion batteries, including battery powered electric tools, cellphones, radios, cameras, tablet computers and laptop computers, etc. Thanks for the advice.
Thank you Sean. Another bit of battery longevity advice for owners is to always keep their EV plugged in, EVEN if at full charge already. The trickle charge prevents background battery attrition from the car just sitting there. Suggest all owners do this as habit. I do this with my 2015 Model S as well with my 2015 Iphone 6+ and I've had no issues with either.
You are right- 60 kw battery is not for a real estate agent. You need a 3, or an X, or an S. With the largest battery they have. And stop charging to 100%
Agree!
How many miles/day do you typically drive? How many miles on peak days?
I think your battery actually comes with a 70kw battery, which is why you can purchase additional range via a software update. Some people say that charging up to 100% on a 60D is actually 85% because the battery is the same as a 70D and the available range is only limited by software. Others say that charging up to 100% on a 60D is still 100% because the extra battery capacity is not being charged.
It's not really the so called "High Voltage" that damages the battery...it's the high current.
SO, your Small battery estimated to cost 15-20,000 as of August 2018. WHAT DOes the larger batteries cost, (out of pocket) or out of warranty as of August 2018. I heard that the top of the line battery is North of 37,000 US Dollars? is that true as of today? Thank you.
Good video Sean. I have a 60 kWh MS too. Don’t supercharge a lot except on roadtrips. Was planning to do SC more, but you gave me something to thank about!
Good plan. I'm of the opinion now that supercharging impacts battery when done often. Just on road trips is fine.
@@AllThingsEV does it tho? the semi in a year is supposed to supercharge 1+ times daily forever, tesloop superchargers 1/2 times daily.
people just like to have something to fret over
even if it does isnt time valuable?
Thanks for the tips....I have a new Chevy Bolt.
G a y
Sean Nissan says that it doesn't hurt to charge a 2018 Nissan Leaf battery to 100%. Is the Tesla battery different?
Brian Foster I’m going to take a guess and say they are probably the same type of battery which is similar to to a laptop one... the difference would probably be on how they maintain the temperature of the battery .... from what I know when it come to lithium ion battery’s it is best to keep them at that 80%,20%
Thanks nice video. Do you have any recommendations on good floor mats for weather conditions like Colorado which you have used?
Thank you Sean, I know this is an old video, but as a expecting Tesla Model 3 Owner and RUclipsr, this was very insightful. Our LR M3 will get 310 miles of range and keeping it between 20% DoD and 80% SOC will give us 186 miles of usable range. Thank you for making this video!
Congrats on the Model 3! And thanks for the great content as well! 🙂
And if you want to get into the science behind it, watch this video: How Tesla batteries work with PhD scholar Ravindra Kempaiah ruclips.net/video/18MYRkx_Vr4/видео.html
I hope you can get a new battery. I would love to see a Tesla with a million miles on it someday. best of luck . I always enjoy your videos
Thanks John!
It's in the newest owners manual (for the model S). They say not to charge to 100% unless you have no choice due to a large distance to the next charging station. And it also says that supercharging all the time is a bad idea as well. Best to use the home charger at 240v and 50 or 60 amps service. The faster you charge a lithium battery the more you stress it and reduce life. And any lithium battery is damaged when draining to empty. I don't know what percentage corresponds to the minimum charge level for a Tesla battery, but 20% is as good a guess as any. You'd have to know the minimum allowable voltage for each independent cell in the battery. In typical lithium packs this is 3.6 or 3.7v resting voltage before damage starts to occur (this is 20% in typical lithium packs). I'm guessing Tesla's battery is probably quite different and I don't know where their "20% level" is relative to the minimum voltage of their cells. Finally the manual says to always leave the Tesla plugged in the home charging station when idle, because the battery is always being used by the car even when it's idle (they don't want it to run down to zero unattended). Not sure if this is necessarily a great idea. I would guess it's better to keep the car 50% to 60% charge when it's sitting for long periods. Of course you could set up the car to stop a charge at 50% (when sitting for long periods) and keep it there while plugged in. And then when you're going to start driving it again, go in and move it back to 80% the night before. This is based on 17 years of practical experience that I have with lithium batteries fwiw.
Thanks Sean. Great advice. It was might seem obvious but don't be surprised if some people are one of what Uncle Sean does.
Thanks Sean for putting in the time and effort to create this video. Great job! 👍
Get the model 3 with the bigger battery. You most likely don't need a bigger car. And the battery pack in the 3 is supposed to be an improvement.
Never run a "rechargeable battery" to Zero!
If you cannot let the battery go to zero, then you cannot put the car in storage for any length of time, right?
DIOSpeedDemon
Charge then store. Don’t discharge then store.
I read a story, I don't know if it is true, where a customer bought a new Tesla and decided to store it in a storage unit and keep it pristine, for a future investment. Well he goes to start the thing six months later, the battery is dead and the car wont start. He calls the company and says he needs a new battery and his situation. The company supposedly told him that the fine print of the warranty explained you can Never let the better completely discharge, or it kills the Brain in the battery, whatever that is. They said they could do a new battery for 37,000$ US Dollars, and that is all they could do about it. Is this true about discharging the battery? Thanks
Battery Tender for Tesla 🤔
iPhone/cellphone 📲 battery?
Thanks for the advice and sharing your experience.
Can we download an app (from the Tesla app store) ... onto/into a Tesla car ... to automatically prevent undercharging/overcharging the battery?
Overcharge prevention is built into the car. There's a slider bar to tell it where you want it to stop charging. Low charge is simply you making sure to charge it before you get low.
Take the 75kwh pack but use the hilltop reserve limiting it to about 85-90% max charge, best of all worlds.
This is likely my plan...
Sean Mitchell Cheapest way is to keep the software limited 60 and charge it to 100 % Every day which equals 86 % of of 75 kWh total capacity ...
This video just made the argument on not paying to remove the software cap on the replacement battery if you plan on keeping the Tesla for a while. Upgrade it when you plan on getting rid of it for better resell value.
Have a Model S P90DL. In three years I’m on my third battery. I almost never charge above the “Daily” charge level - probably only fully charged a dozen or so times. I also very rarely discharge to very low levels. When I reported my battery problems Tesla reviewed the logs and the main problem was the Wide Open Throttle (WOT) count which is very high. What I’m saying is the fourth way to destroy the battery is to thrash the car with very hard acceleration. Treat it gently guys....
Well, that's a buzz kill. I have a Chevy Bolt that I thrash every time I take it out. Was wondering why i have lost capacity....WOOOOOOT, WOOOOOOOT, WOOOOOOOT
Did Tesla pay, or did you have to?
I wonder if that's my problem!
Hey Sean Great info thanks, I have a question, If I bought the model S for my limo business and I drove it everyday 200 plus miles will the battery degrade faster , I average about 40k miles a year in my business. thanks
Hey Sean, Nice channel! Getting my Tesla this month, from Denver as well. Also wanted to mention the DOC in your description isnt available anymore. Can i have the link to that?
Long winded way to tell use not to charge to 100% or go down below 20 percent too often.
why bother, if you manage to do anything remotely damaging its under warranty
@@analogueavenue how long do you think is enough to tell people not to min or max a battery?
@@richardroberson9277 No, "degradation" is not covered. I asked Tesla in Bristol UK whether, if I only had ten miles of range, my battery would be replaced/repaired under warranty, she said, no, degradation is not covered, only if the battery fails (i.e. stops working altogether) will it be fixed under warranty! Recent cars have a warranty that says it will be fixed if it falls below 70% of original capacity.
1. Don't charge to 100%
2. Don't deplete charge below 30%
3. Don't Super Charge
4. Don't buy a Tesla.
4. dont drive
@Omrito H yea you save energy at your expense.
Don't eat, don't drink
I'll stick to my corolla
Hey thank you for this. Planning on getting a Model S
You’re very welcome! Glad it was helpful! Make sure you use an owner referral code when you buy, too.
Thank you so much Sean. It’s very helpful.
You’re welcome!
Those 3 things you mentioned will not kill the battery but degrade t. Battery needs replacement due to real problem, NOT degradation.
Good point. Many people still don't understand that li-ion EV batteries typically don't die as other chemistries do. They will certainly lose capacity but at an increasingly slower rate. A Tesla battery may lose 15-20 percent after 100,000 miles but only another 10 percent by 200,000. The decay rate actually slows as the battery gets older, to a point. At a certain point (probably well north of 300,000 miles) it will begin dropping like a stone. Data from Tesla owners is showing that properly maintained these batteries could go to to 500,000 miles before the capacity falls below 50 percent. Google "Tesla battery life" for some interesting information.
@@Tron-Jockey You are a bit off. The forecast is that Tesla will be able to drive 500,000 miles when capacity drops to 80%, not 50%.
The battery degradation appears to be around 1% per 30,000 miles driven. Some of the initial loss happens faster, and then slows down.
There is no data showing it dropping like a stone at any point. People consider 80% capacity to be the time where the pack will be swapped out due to age and loss of range. Since the time it will take to get there will probably decades, by that time, a far better and cheaper pack will be available with a far longer range.
Since people in the USA keep their cars around 6.5 years on average, odds are the original owner would have moved on, long before that ever becomes an issue.
@@redbaron6805 - Yeh, I just Googled "Tesla Battery life" and found its much better than I had previously thought. Excellent info, thanks Baron.
@@redbaron6805 Tesla reps say you'll get about 70% loss after 120k. Disappointing to hear, but reality is reality.
@@Aerials-lw3yw 70% at 120K is not reality. Reality is 80% after 500,000 miles, as seen here:
teslarati.com/tesla-battery-life-80-percent-capacity-840km-1-million-km/
Definitely get a LR RWD Model 3!!! Super range and cheaper than a S.
Wrong
@@mmp11472, are you saying the 325 mile range isn't super or that it isn't cheaper than an S?
Does this still apply to LFP batteries in the new Model 3s? I just bought one and they recommend charging up to 100% weekly. Should I still keep it above 20%? Or can it go lower too?
Hi sean . Was the 50k Tesla warranty on your used Tesla added to 16k so it would last till 66k or is it only till 50k miles no matter what the mileage is on a used Tesla ? Thanks very much
Well considering the 60 is a 75 with software limited capacity even at 100% you were not really 100% so I don't think that was a factor
Right now towards the end of 2919, the battery cost 12K. So yes. Battery will get cheaper in 1-2 more years. That's when I'm buying a Tesla.
How's life in 2919? Btw, who won the 2020 Super Bowl and what was the score?
Thank you Uncle Sean!
I’m a new Tesla owner n I hope my model 3 will be alive till I I retire.
Congratulations on the Model 3!!!! It’s a really great car.
how are you getting along with your TM3 after 6 months? We love ours! and yes we are following uncle Sean's advice and not charging to 100% everytime and not letting it deplete to more than 30%. On our daily use we charge it once a week up to 80%, and we've only used the supercharger once on a long trip to LA. We love our car and it's a keeper!!!
Why is Supercharging bad? My model S is set to 40 amp? In the charge setting. Should i lower to 30 amp?
All your videos are awesome and so informative! I recently bought a Tesla model S it’s a 2012 signature series with a 85 KW battery(used of course) had 62,000 miles. I was able to find out information via Tesla once I bought it and found the owners took good care of it and it was current on all maintenance. And warranty work that was needed. But I’m always searching for ways to keep my battery running for a long time! And everyone is saying only charge to 80% and get to no less than 20%. Which I never have. Thankfully. But it is something that sticks in my mind.. what if my battery dies after my 8 year unlimited mile warranty goes out.. but hopefully by listening to others and sticking to these rules of maintenance.. will work! I did calculations and found brand new was 265 miles of range I now get roughly 256 miles of range at full charge.. not to bad.. let me know if you have any other tips!! Thanks again!
Forgot to mention I drive mostly highway.. I charge to about 190 miles and by the time I get home (depending on weather temp) I live in Kansas.. I normally get home with above 100 miles.. should I lower the miles to charge up to?
Sounds like you’re doing the right things. Hopefully if the battery does goes bad outside of warranty they will be inexpensive. Love the signature series! What color?
Sean Mitchell it’s black. My boyfriend wasn’t to keen on the red.. which they had both at the time. But we love it! It’s the best thing we have ever bought! I get lots of questions about it daily but I love talking about it! 😊
Curious. How did you 60 kw do in the winter in Denver? They say the dual motor does better with winter.. I was researching how to drive your Tesla in the winter months and found lots of helpful tips!
Sounds like you have a fine buffer.
Elon recommends 90% daily now
What if you only drive locally around 20 miles per day? If I can keep it at 50-60% would that be better? Should I charge to 60% each day if that is all I need?
Solid video. I have a M3. I only charge to 80% and I try to never let it get below 40%. I don’t do tons of driving. I haven’t used a supercharger yet and I may never need to use one.
Thanks Michael!
Would u recommend buying extended warranty for those close to 8 years of ownership?
It's not about getting a free battery because you have a warranty. It's about avoiding destroying the battery so that you can be more friendly with the environment. Every ruined battery has an environmental cost.
The warranty is for defects, not mistreatment. So, if you actually don't need to keep charing your Tesla to 100% every night, then you shouldn't.
Also, by properly caring for your battery, you are saving Tesla a lot of money. Therefor, you are adding to their probability of succeeding as a business and thus succeeding at reducing our dependence on fossil fuel and reducing greenhouse emissions.
T- Smooth, So you're an environmentalist?
Terje Oseberg I think that's what he was acknowledging at the end.
T- Smooth, I'm glad you care so much about the environment. I'm sure you avoid wasting your batteries by misusing them.
Despite the fact that the lithium, cobalt, nickel, and other materials can be recovered from the batteries, there's still the cost of energy required to perform the recycling. Therefor it is best to maximize the longevity of your batteries regardless of our ability to recycle the raw materials of which they are composed.
cleantechnica.com/2018/06/07/yes-tesla-recycles-all-of-its-spent-batteries-wants-to-do-more-in-the-future/
www.recyclingtoday.com/article/tesla-umicore-battery-packs/
Yes, Tesla has been very firm about saying they recycle and reuse old batteries. They've never gone into detail but hope someday they explain exactly what it is they do with them.
Terje Oseberg then Tesla needs to stop advertising the range of their car at 100% charge level and advertise the range at the 80% level, as that is what you are expected to do daily. If they advertise the range at 100% level, I should be able to do that daily without it being labeled as abusing the battery, otherwise it's false advertising, as the additional 20% should be consider a reserve for emergency instead.
By the way, get the 75 Kwh battery and keep supercharging as need it. When you buy a Model S, X or 3 Performance, you are prepaying energy cost at front. The energy transportation cost is implemented in the price of the car. This is another Elon Musk quote.
Do these tips apply to LiFePh battery chemistry? My OEM is encouraging me to always maintain a 20 to 100 pc charge cycle.
Thanks for posting this and being honest with your reviews, I'm curious if you would buy a Tesla car again knowing that the batteries die? For me, I will probably stick with gas cars (but mostly just riding my bike) until they figure out 1) how to make batteries last longer and 2) how to make batteries more environmentally/ sustainable (I'm not certain the old batteries are really recycled I feel like they end up in a dump somewhere in the Philippines). I understand most Tesla car batteries will degrade slowly and the car's other components (I've heard the drive motors have needed to be replaced) will probably fail before the battery does but it's still another component that is $$$ to replace. If you told most gas car buyers that the engine is guaranteed to fail somewhere above 200,000 miles (but might last until 400,000 miles) and costs $5,000 to $10,000 to replace, and that if you filled the gas tank up to 100% every time and filled it up quickly it makes the engine die faster, I don't think anyone in the right mind would buy that gas car. I would call myself a Tesla fan b/c of what they did for the EV industry, and I hope they continue to innovate and come out with a car that will replace all gas guzzlers, but until they do I'll stick with my old trusty Toyota Camry (from 2007). Something also tells me that we won't see 2017 Tesla Model 3's in 20 years like we still see 1999 Toyota Camry's all the time. And yes, I know it's unfair to compare Camry's to luxury Tesla cars but I'm speaking in general terms of EV's in general or even hybrids for that matter.
Richie can "fix it" for a lot less !
Love me some Richie...
Love me some Richie...
I'am a fan of the big battery, I don't charge my Model 3 battery to 100%. I still have about 269 miles of range doing it that way.
Awesome range!
Like you said, 100% charge is only needed for road trips. I feel that nothing has been compromised in range with the bigger battery. If people can afford it, that is the way to go.
I agree. Plenty of range for most people even at 50% change.
Thank you. I was told you never need to replace a full battery. They are divided in cells that are a couple hundred $ each yeah?
One thing I've noticed over the last 18 months or so is battery costs have plateaued, this is likely to be temporary though I do believe that cost reduction estimations are optimistic, 18650 cells are closing in on their capacity limit until new chemistries come along.
Just like you shouldn't rev a ICE car all the time because it will damage the engine over time. EVs have a different way to care for them than an ICE car.
oisiaa it is good to get the rpms up once in awhile to get that carbon buildup out. I drove the snot out of my older cars and they all got over 200,000 miles. Maintenance is also key.
But the newer cars are sensitive just like the millennials.
It's my understanding that it's the time spent at 100% charge that causes the most battery capacity degradation, not the number of times that you charge it to 100%.
So, if you charge it to 100% right before you leave, it's better than if you charge it to 100%, then leave it fully charged all night before you leave. Especially if you do that every night.
Maybe it would be good if there was a charge timer. It can charge to 80% as quickly as possible, then charge the remaining 20% in the morning so the car is ready right when you leave the house. Then you'll drain it back to 80% fairly soon, thus reducing the time that the battery spends in the fully charged state.
@@terjeoseberg990 the speed of charging naturally slows as you approach 100%. 90% is much healthier and frankly if that last 10% is gonna make you miss your distance goals/next charger you're probably not planning the trip very well. Also when super charging you need to have over 10% anyways to get a full speed charge. Super chargers are fastest from about 10% to 55% or so. Below 10% can be super slow.
That's pretty much all already built in. You set the car to always cap at the 80%, and then when you get up the morning you're planning to leave, you raise it to 100% on the app and let it charge further while you're preparing. 80% - 100% takes about the same time to charge as 20% - 80%
And that's why Tesla batteries last longer than any other batteries.
If only Cell phone and Laptop manufacturers would include the same features for charging their batteries.
@@terjeoseberg990 agreed. I try to take my mobile off the charger when I notice it getting above 80% for that reason.
Hi!! I love your RUclips videos ! I wanted to quickly ask you a question. Is it bad if I floor my model Y as soon as I get it from the dealership?
It is a shame that they don't emphasize this more. We did charge our LR Model 3 up to 97% once and let it run down under 20% a couple of times, but usually keep it between 100-270 and charge at home the vast majority of time. This works well for our use, including my wife 125 mile round-trip commute (plus lunch and errands). Works well and is easy. I have no qualms about charging all the way up for a trip, but that's not a big part of our driving, so it's not going to have much impact. And...even on a trip, it usually makes sense to charge well under full charge just to stay in the sweet spot of the supercharging curve.
It seems that the single best piece of advice for somebody thinking about an electric car is to understand the limitations of current batteries and make sure that the car you're looking at fits well into your use needs.
You shouldn't have to manage that. Tesla should have these limits already built in.
this is why people should always get a larger battery vs any other option when buying an EV... Tesla battery engineer says keep it in 30% to 70%
Most manufacturers would recommend between 10 and 80. That"s also the sweet spot when you go fast charging and that's for a reason.
@@Hans-gb4mv No, they wouldn't. 30% to 70% is the best, that's what the Chevy Volt does.
Elon Musk recently said that charging to 90% daily should be just fine. Maybe even 95% would be okay.
He also said that running the battery down to 5% should be okay too.
The key is not to let the battery sit for very long with it below 20% or greater than 95%.
@@VoltLover00 Except, data shows the lifespan difference between 30% and 70% and 10% and 90% is almost irrelevant.
blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-about-the-panasonic-ncr18650b/
Any engineer will tell you that (myself being one) although 30-70% is too tight you are fine as long as you don’t completely discharge. If you fully charge you shouldn’t leave it stored that way. Nature of the chemistry. Some chemistries (such as those with phosphate cathodes) will allow for full depletion without much cycle life degradation but usually there’s a 30% capacity hit. But the ruggedness of those types of batteries are why they often are used in aerospace applications
Weird you didn't mention driving through a flooded street 😂
LOL. I don't think that had an impact on the battery.
@@AllThingsEV check out Rich Repairs, where he's rebuilding a flood damaged Tesla
@@PaulMansfield Actually, Rick Rebuilds opened a Tesla battery pack that had been submerged in water for several days.
It literally was bone dry and had zero damage. The pack is completely sealed. Driving through a flooded street has zero effect on the battery.
Rich rebuilds flooded tesla examinations disproves this theory that water ruins the battery. Its sealed very well, basically waterproof (unlike the Fisker karmas that started catching fire in a rainstorm haha)
Lol. We are all biased in some way.
I like your straight forward delivery without any complaints. Honest Sean instead of Uncle Sean.
Thank you
Sean what are the dimensions of the roadster Sketch behind you?
I'll stick with my Prius C and when it makes sense I'll install a larger secondary battery.
Those batteries also die too!
@@Mattstafford2009 but it's way cheaper than Tesla and Tesla battery :D. Prius C is a sweet little car for people who can't afford a Tesla.
Sorry I can’t agree with the assumptions you are making Tesla will almost certainly not let the batteries in your car charge to 100% the display might say 100% but Tesla will have picked a safe maximum voltage for each cell pack and the charge process will stop at that voltage then balance the cells out. If the cars display had a volt meter and not a % display then we could have a sensible discussion about it. The same is true of a low voltage condition the battery management system will have a safe low voltage cutoff point and stop the car when that point is reached. So it might say 5 miles range or 5% left but if the voltage is below the set threshold it will just switch off which is very important. The temperature question is an arbitrary one as the car will have been tested over a very wide range of operating temps and will have again have max and min thresholds
You were just unfortunate to have a faulty set of cells in the 6800 (or whatever is in your pack) so it can’t maintain the required voltage level and can’t balance the cells out. It can take awhile to balance properly a complex set of parallel and series batteries so leaving the car plugged in would probably be best. Avoiding Supercharging may also help only if the supercharge process doesn’t allow sufficient time to balance the cells properly even if you only took it to 80% of charge.
Tesla battery engineers recommend not charging above 90% on a daily basis. But there's definitely a built in buffer too.
This is totally correct for any battery pack of this type. The point of multiple cells and banks is to provide parallel power that is balanced between the internal packs as they are used and during the charge process ( known as balancing ) so the discharge and charge rates are always equal. the management controller data is what Tesla is looking at and they can see which pack is the culprit. When they swap out the battery pack, they rebuild them. Just to add to this one more piece of info. Li-ion batteries at the 80% mark take longer to reach 100% because this is the top off charge of the battery. The charge from 30 to 80% is faster and generates more heat due to this and this is why the last 20% is slower, to help cool down the battery as it finishes a full charge cycle.
Is buying a new battery the same as buying a new engine? As in does the mileage go back to 0?
I cannot find the App TM-SPY anybody help?
You were definitely abusing that battery. Never a good idea to abuse your tools; they'll let you down, as you've seen. I would say you need at least a 75 KW battery for what you use the vehicle for and a 100 wouldn't hurt. Obviously a 60 is just not sufficient _for your purposes._
Kelly Rayburn Yeah, how dare he expect the battery to live up to the hype that Tesla’s advertised. Who would’ve ever thought that in order to keep the battery working reliably, you’re only allowed to use half the battery’s capacity.
Embellishing a bit, eh? It's between 30% and 80%. Not 50%. 32 or even 35% is fine.
Jeffery Bohemier, anti tesla circlejerk much? Leaning out a combustion engine by running low on fuel can superheat and damage a typical fuel injected Internal combustion engine. Cyclic loading and durability are problems that engineers are working on at all times. Essentially, understanding your use case is what you need to know. You're not going to go out and buy a honda civic v6 and put 200k miles on it with no service.
In this case, using 50-70% of the battery for day to day operations, where at most you drive about 150 miles in a given day, is not an unreasonable daily ask.
How's about instead of sniveling about the flaws of 2013 or 2014 era 60kw battery pack, try working the problem. There's big money if you solve the dendrite issue.
Besides, running it 20% - 80% in a model 3 with the most modern battery will get you 190+ miles before you need to stop and charge for ten minutes, with negligible long term degradation. And most people are going to be in their driveway topping off well before that.
Just setting that 80% cap in the software will eliminate almost all battery issues.
Charging a 60 to 100 percent is not abuse,Mitsubishi 80 percent of the 75 that's in there
you can ruin an ICE by driving "wrong" too which wills shorten the life significantly more than batteries.
You don't ruin ice cars by driving them typically. I do like Teslas. I would have one if they weren't so full of overpriced and overengineered components. I dont need $3000 door handles or goofy doors that you cant just pull open. Electric cars nees a Henry ford with a model T philosophy to make them mainstream. Until they are Simple, efficient and modular I'm going to let the early adopters take the hits to their wallets.
The Noble American WTF you talking about. Most modern ICE engines have a short break-in and other than that, how can you drive one wrong? Doing neutral drops? All cars require some type of maintenance and even Tesla suggest a once a year go over.
Most Modern ICE cars will go 150- 200k miles easily with no repairs.
What warranty insurance would you suggest?
2:54 Yep! Shawn is correct and this is in fact what Hybrids do automatically. That is why their batteries last so long as they're always operating in the sweet spot. My nephew has a 2004 Toyota Prius with 420,000 kilometers on it (263,000 miles) and the battery is still original. I personally own a 2018 Kia Niro Hybrid and the "State of Charge" meter has never gone over 80% nor below 30%.
Newer Tesla’s have better battery tech as well.
High or low voltage that can cause a "cell" to actually flip polarity. And yes, batteries hate fast discharge and fast charging.
Painfully drawn out. This could be about 1/3 of the length.
Sorry it did not deliver for you.
Does Tesla not build in buffer capacity on these? I.e. 60kWh usable but there is 5kwh either end to stop you actually charging to 100 or draining to 0?
They most likely do, which is why they recommend that 10 to 90% is fine. There is probably already at least another 10% cushion on either side, so that if you follow their advice, it's actually like 20/80%.
Also, heat management helps a lot in prolonging lithium based chemistry battery tech.
What do you think regenerative braking does to the battery life span?
Is it better for the battery to suffer repetitive battery charges/discharges from regen braking and acceleration or to disable regen braking and just coast?
Driving aggressively with lots of regen contributes to battery and motor heating. Regen in normal driving does not shorten battery life. Regen is most efficient at high speed. Use it from 70 down to 30 then coast as energy recovery is better saving it as kinetic energy in the moving car, Using regen the last few feet before a stop is convenient and saves on your pads, but doesn't charge the battery.
I think your estimate of future battery costs of $5000 is way too low. The battery weighs 1200lbs (540kg) and has over 7000 cells in it together with a very significant amount of power semiconductors associated with charging, balancing and monitoring the cells. To get this down to about 70 cents per cell (or looked at another way ~$4/lb) to the end-user seems a huge stretch.
The batteries are primarily comprised of nickel oxides, graphite, and to a lesser extent, alumium, and hydrocarbon-based electrolytes - most of which are well under $4/lb (nickel oxides are about that price).
It'll take time, but they can get down that cheap eventually.
@Karen Pease Well, bear in mind we are talking here about a spare part for a car and the price the end-user will be paying not the bulk price for an OEM.
If you think that price is possible can you give some examples of items currently manufactured containing well in excess of 7000 components and weighing over 500kg that are currently available to the consumer for a one-off price of $5000?
A shed? That took like five seconds to come up with an example.
@ Karen Really? - give us a breakdown of the 7000+ components you think are in this shed of yours and let's see how they stack up in, say, machining time and raw materials to a Tesla battery.
Nails, for starters? You're counting tiny components in a battery pack; better count tiny components in a shed too.
Want to talk tons of components? A modern CPU has over *ten billion transistors* - not all parts combined, just transistors. Part count is relevant only to the degree that you can mass manufacture said parts. And those cell lines at Giga seriously churn through those cells.
Thanks for your story. Silly prediction though, that battery packs will go down from 15K to 5K in 5 years. Not even Elon Musk thinks that. Only spectacular break throughs can make that happen. EVs, my prediction now, will stay high priced for 10 years, because of the battery.
Wrong
Except historical data shows that. Lithium Ion batteries dropped in price by 80% in six years, from 2011 to 2017.
They are forecast to keep dropping, and are forecast to cost $60 per kWh in 2023. That is 5 years from now, that means a 60kWh battery pack will be $3600.
cleantechnica.com/2018/06/09/100-kwh-tesla-battery-cells-this-year-100-kwh-tesla-battery-packs-in-2020/
@@redbaron6805 OK we will wait and see. I eat my hat, or you will?
@@theoschijf8155 Well, considering that Lithium Ion battery prices dropped by 80% from 2011 to 2017, I suggest you load up on Ketchup and condiments for your hat......:)
@@theoschijf8155 You can check out the actual history here:
cleantechnica.com/2017/12/11/batteries-keep-getting-cheaper/
It's higher current that is delivered by the Supercharger that heats up the battery pack. The DC voltage applied to charge the battery is the same whether Supercharger or internal charger hooked to 240 volts AC: about 403 volts DC max.
The thing is that if you _FULL-BRIDGE RECTIFY_ a 240V connection, the peak voltage will land at approximately 340V.
Is there a way to log what the charge was at when you charged the car, so you can see how often you super charged the car over time?
It isn't necessary, Supercharging affects battery lifespan by a little more or less than a rounding error.
Replacing an EV battery makes as little sense as replacing a gas car’s engine. My brandnew car was only $11000. Back when I leased an EV my SoCal electricity was just as expensive as gasoline (so no savings there). No matter how I crunch the numbers I cannot justify spending $40 grand for a Tesla
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electrictroy2010 depends on the person.
I drive exactly 102 miles per day m-f. I spent 270$ a month on gas for my Lexus (I know, not a hybrid, but I want a nice feeling car to drive). Installed overnight charging rate for the Tesla at 4.3c per kWh. I charge overnight at 32a to 80% and at normal driving I use 250watt hours per mile. That comes about to 1.09$ a day (25.5 kWh) so a little over 20$ a month. My model S makes for a easy commute and was well worth the cost. I never supercharge, only go to 80% and never below 20%. Battery will last me a very long time.
Contact rich rebuilds he can maybe repair your battery instead of replacing it
Would be a fun collaboration.
But he can't know how good or bad those batteries are, he pulls them from wrecks or floods so it's a guessing game.
It certainly is an option, but if you need that car every day for work it isn't a great option.
The battery is not the actual issue as it is the use. He drives too many miles per day on this small battery. He needs to lease a new X 100 for maximum business deductions. Owning a car in real estate is not very smart!
Why? In this case Tesla will provide a new larger battery for free under warranty.
I agree. Keep it in the 20-80% range. Think off your range in terms of that sweet spot 60% power/range.
In other words, practical range is far less than advertised
TasteMyStinkhole Hence why I dont plan on buying one for a long time. No economic model in telsa's lineup.
Now i think the batteries as gone up with everything is happening. Great tips and great video .
Your wrong the best way to ruin the batter is to 1: beat the battery with a blunt object 2: set it on fire 3: drive into the ocean. Hope this helps 🙂
NEW REQUIREMENT: If you give me a thumbs down, you need to comment on why.
Funny, Most of the time, I comment and forget to hit one finger button.
gave a thumbs down for starting the video by lying . tesla batteries aren't designed in any way to last long. every tesla youtuber seems to have had a battery pack or a motor or both changed at least once during the first 12 months of ownership
most of these advices aren't really applicable. using the battery only between 30 and 80% means you're down to half the range all the time except when you do longer trips. that bring it down to the level of the Nissan leaf and other EVs.
not supercharging often when you're supposed to just use 50% actual capacity, not that feasible. supercharging is like the main feature of tesla, that differentiate it from other EVs, and speaks volumes about a company that both designs and makes in-house both the batteries and superchargers, but you're supposed to avoid the superchargers as much as possible. not a good job on their part.
my phone battery is also li-ion and I charged it to 100% everyday and it lasted me more than 2 years without any issues, no tesla battery pack has ever lasted 2 years it seems.
as for temperatures, it almost sounds like don't drive your tesla during the coldest days in winter or the warmest days in summer. not that awesome from a car.
imo no way in hell the cost of the battery replacement will reach 5000$ in 5 years. that's about how much it costs now for the other EVs which have a lot smaller batteries.
no model S has gone out of the 8 year warranty yet. we'll see then what their second hand value will be.
at least Renault allows you to "rent" the battery pack. you buy the car but rent the battery pack. not as a crap idea as it sounds imo.
"tesla batteries aren't designed in any way to last long"
And that's why I gave you a thumbs down.
When you repeatedly charged the battery to 100%, did you charge the night before use for the next day, or did you charge the morning for the rest of the days use?
You shouldn't consider every problem you've had with your Tesla an anomaly. I would bet that the battery has died on MANY other Teslas (since they are not engineered to specifically last forever), especially from your era of Model S cars. Tesla has come a long way in the last 6 years in improving quality control in manufacturing.
Hi Sean, what was the price for the new battery?
Why cant they put a 100kwh pack in your car at your expense?
I gave you a thumbs down because I constantly charge my battery to 100%, in fact I pretty much only use the supercharger, also I run my pack down low as well and at 300k I've lost maybe 12-15km of range. I feel also like you are speculating about why your battery needed to be replaced, and basing your information on hearsay and not actual fact.
Well not all batteries will come out equal, there are over 7000 cells in those packs and they all represent a possible failure, and they can't all be built exactly the same.
So some cars will get extremely lucky and last, while others had to go in after a couple thousand miles, and most will last for around the warranty period.
Science says running the pack the way Tesla suggests will allow better overall experience-the engineers tell you to use properly it was not hearsay
Don't understand the thumbs down. This video had lots of great tips.
@@MsSomeonenew No, there are not over 7000 cells in those battery packs. The 60kWh battery pack has 5375 cells, not over 7000. Only the 85kWh battery pack or larger has over 7000 cells.
And a single failure or two or fifty doesn't kill the pack. Each individual cell is fused, and in case of a failure, will remove itself from the rest of the pack.
They will not last around the warranty period. They will last far longer than that, according to current data from packs around the world...
www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery-life-80-percent-capacity-840km-1-million-km/
@John Grzeskowiak It is adjustable. Leaving it at 90% means the pack will have no issues for a couple of decades. There is no need to micromanage it.
So the premium range of an electric car is 50 percent lower than they advertise because you need to charge to no more than 80 % and don’t run it below 30 %. Otherwise you will lower the life of the battery and it will cost a small fortune. Awesome.
Nope. Not the case. You can charge a Lithium battery to full and discharge it to a very low point, just don't do it constantly. Road trips it will be fine to do so. Daily driving, just pay a little attention. Or the alternative is paying $35-50 every time you fill up with gasoline so you can run it empty and fill it completely full without issue. And you also get to change the timing belt, do oil changes, transmission flushes, fuel and water pump replacements, smog checks, etc. Pick your poison.
No, that is complete fiction. There is very little degradation of the battery unless you frequently go well above 90% or well below 10% on a regular basis, and leave it there for extended periods of time.
blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-about-the-panasonic-ncr18650b/
Guess it is like charging your phone. When do you come to a point where you fully discharge your phone so it is more a learning here too. Of course don’t charge it to 100% and that is because you want the regenerative breaking to charge the battery back and if it is 100%, the energy has nowhere to go. So not to charge 100% a practice
At the end when you mention battery pricing dropping below 5k, are you referring to new or used? Also smallest battery or midrange? I’d love it if in 5 years I can throw a 100 kWh pack in place of my 85 if that’s possible.
I'm not sure how easy Tesla has made it to swap out batteries for larger ones or what is involved. My point was that the tech is changing rapidly and Tesla is singlehandedly driving down the cost of batteries with their cars, trucks, home battery storage, and whatever else the come out with.
Hi current not high voltage is what heates the battery.
I’m definitely giving you a thumbs down. It’s not about you or the quality of your video, but on your convoluted way of trying to justify buying an electric vehicle over a gas powered vehicle. And believe me when I say that I like electric vehicles. I really do. But it’s borderline false advertising when Tesla insist that you can get a certain range from a certain model when in reality using the full range as advertised would cause you to ruin the car’s battery. You said the sweet spot’s between 30 and 80%. Well, that leaves a whopping 50% of the battery’s capacity OUTSIDE that sweet spot, and from listening to your video, I’ve got to take away the fact that using that 50% will diminish the life of the battery.
The cost of that battery is outrageous. For $15,000 to $20,000, I can replace both the engine and transmission in a gas powered car...and still have plenty left over. But if you’ve taken proper care of your gasoline powered vehicle, then there’s no reason why it won’t run for at least 250,000 miles or more...with no significant high dollar issues. Tesla’s kept the repair cost of these cars under wraps as long as they could. But Model S’s are now coming out from under that 8 year warranty and the true cost of repairs is starting to leak out. Those fancy door handles, which one owner has reported to replace 4 times, are about $1000.00 a pop. Model S brakes also have a corrosion issue, likely caused because they’re not used nearly as often, as the car uses regenerative braking. The cost of that repair...expect to pay around $5000. That’s if you’re lucky. One owner reported a much higher price. And then there’s the electric motors themselves. Again, an owner reported to have had his replaced under warranty...twice. Gotta wonder how much THAT cost. It’s the heart of the car. People who have tried to purchase used Tesla’s have been told (by Tesla’s dealerships) when asked about the prior repairs made on the car they’re interested in buying...”Its been inspected and is in full working order.” THAT DOESN’T ANSWER THE QUESTION. And I won’t buy a used car WITHOUT KNOWING IT’S REPAIR HISTORY. Nor would I consider buying a car that only allows me to use half it’s fuel, electric or otherwise.
Lastly, the MAIN REASON I won’t buy a Tesla is their really bland styling. For the cost of a nice Model S, I can also buy a really, REALLY NICE BMW 7 Series. And if I was taking clients around to see new homes, THAT’S THE CAR I’d rather take them in. Something supremely comfortable, NOT BLAND, with a build quality that far exceeds that of Tesla’s. And I’d be able to leave my range worries behind. Because for the cost of the battery pack in your Tesla, I could put fuel in the BMW for more than 150,000 miles...and still have money left over.
Until battery technology improves even further, I’m staying away from electric vehicles. Personally, I don’t think our energy issues will be resolved with electric cars, at least, not until that electric juice is created onboard using hydrogen power cells.
Jeffrey Bohémier...... Couldn't agree more! Battery tech is in it's infancy, and will change dramatically once auto makers start using supercaps.
lol and after way less then 200,000 miles your wonderful BMW will fall apart and stop working too
The new tesla is falling apart leaving the factory. One recently had the bumper fall off due to heavy rain.
guce.oath.com/collectConsent?sessionId=3_cc-session_25591885-1b98-4c5a-8ff5-3d86b277fe58&lang=&inline=false&jsVersion=null&experiment=null
Welcome to luxury ownership. These cars are not for the middle class. Imo
@@untilthemoon137 well said. You can buy $100,000 mercs and BMW used for $35,000 with around 50k to 90k miles.....But can you afford to repair and maintain it....
Hey sean great videos, I want to get a CPO 2015 P85D but i'm nervous about the extended warranty.. did tesla give you an option to continue to extend the warranty? if so how much was that? Thanks!
No extended warranty for CPO, only their CPO warranty which typically is 4 year 50k miles.
There is typically no extended warranty on CPO cars as they already come with an extended warranty.
If your car was CPO certified with 40k miles on it, your CPO warranty is extending that to 90k miles already. Offering yet another extension would take it to 140k miles.
Extended warranties typically double the 50k warranty to 100k. Offering an extended warranty on top of an extended warranty is never done by anyone in the auto industry.
Red Baron McLaren offers the option to extend the warranty on their cars every year up to 12 years after the factory warranty ends.
Cool. Thanks for the info. I have a 2013 85. I charge on Chademo often wonder if that will cause the same issue
Slower charging is best, I gather.
Chademo is DC to DC so no wear on the inverters vs home charging which is AC to DC. But I don't think that amounts to much difference.
Is this like the battery for the iPhones how they degrade over time ?
please update on the Tesla Superior store/service in Colorado.
Last I heard is that it *may* be on ice.
Neighbors are Canadian and only live in the Phoenix area burning the winter, they left it charging (slow charge rate) but last years storm cause the charging power with s GFI to pop . So last November they were awarded with something called a BRiCK, the company that overseas their property in the summer was not informed on something they had to watch. So if traveling or going away for several months- something that someone needs to check
What's your take on 'normal' degradation of the battery? I have less than 10K on my M3 AWD and I am down over 6% on my battery. Tesla says it is normal but I just saw that one of the first M3's has over 100K on it and its battery is only down 2%!
The voltage is the same but the current will be much higer when you supercharger.
Thanks for the information uncle sean😂
There must me a battery longevity mode on the car?
Hello, sir. A Tesla service center had my 60kwh Model S for 3 months and never charged it. The 12 volt battery died, the car was totally discharged for months and the battery pack is permanently damaged and needs replacement. They claim that leaving it uncharged for 3 would not hurt the battery pack. I call BS. What are your thoughts! Thanks!
Sean, Do you know if cold climate affected battery degradation in your case? If so Does TM spy mention any data related to cold temperatures? Thanks for making video from learned experience.
Cold weather actually decreases range temporarily, but increases battery lifespan. Of course extreme cold, like -40 or something can cause degradation or damage. But normal cold temperatures down to around -20 or -25 will actually only cause a temporary loss of capacity, it does not harm the battery at all.