Hey, I was beat bloody as a kid, then spend 12 years in a parental relationship with my spoiled stepdaughter who ultimately ended up no better, as she never listened to me. I've seen it both ways. Discipline is absolutely nessessary but...love is never unnecessary. Discipline only exists in the loving heart, and a disciplined heart will never exceed what is necessary for correction, out of love.
I've heard it described 'the opposite of love is not hatred but apathy.' Not caring enough to properly discipline children is the opposite of loving them...
Doug must have been the most loved and disciplined as a young boy because he is, in fact, wise. Thank you Doug’s parents!!! Your analogy of the parents obeying to whining and the child understanding he got what he wants, then he is old enough for discipline to match what the parents wants. Bravo! What a wonderful way to put it, in the exact same senerio.
Thanks Pastor Doug!!! As a father of 7, I can’t recommend ‘Why Children Matter’ (where I first read in depth on the above) enough!! It’s short, clear, scriptural, and a book my wife and I reference often!
Our children are growing up on our working farm. My daughter is 2 years old and helps butcher chickens, plant potatoes, harvest garlic, do chicken chores, and catch chickens plus she helps with some construction work. I have a rule for my wife and I that spanking can only be done when we're not angry. When you're not angry, and when you least want to spank them, that is the proper mindset to be in during the spanking. For me that can be directly after the offense. For my wife it takes a minute or two.
@@UnderTheFloor79 I'd imagine this commenter meant you don't spank while angry. So your children would still see the anger, but you wouldn't get physical in a blinding rage and go a little too far. Sometimes anger makes you irrational and doing anything while angry is very risky business.
@@brackets6188 I have been angry with my kids many times but never in a "blinding rage". So yeah, I would agree, never spank your kids when you are in a blinding rage.
I would love to send this to my daughter, she has you 3 kids and refuses to discipline them. She has completely turned her back on God, and my SiL chewed me out recently for giving the two oldest kids age-appropriate Bibles (funny thing is that my daughter and SiL met in church!). These two oldest are little hooligans. When I suggest that they need to be spanked, she says, "I love them too much." We don't get together as often as I'd like because they destroy the house when they're here and even though my daughter cleans it up (most of the time), they inevitably break or "lose" something. All I know to do is pray that they return to the Lord before it's too late.
As someone who avoids inviting people with unruly children over, I was recently convicted of my love for possessions over people. I don’t know you, so take this with a grain of salt. But, usually, it’s worth having difficult kids over knowing they will break things and not take care of them for the sake of relationship. I’m trying to value my things less (with gritted teeth I might add)
☝🏻No. the opposite. Teach your older daughter with the same discipline. No. You can’t come over because you refuse my wisdom. Since you can’t and don’t respect me as your father you children don’t either and your worse. Until you can control and grow up into maturity as a parent and adult, your children won’t either. So, no as discipline (Doug said their is few age appropriate verses, the majority are kids regardless of age) as her dad, continue to teach and discipline her. Obviously, she knows nothing. It isn’t about material things it is about spiritual. ☝🏻 They gave up. They didn’t come to some higher moral ladder. Fear. Gave up. Loss of self respect, not the love of material things.
Something my dad said to me that is true. Little kids little problems big kids big problems you are going to have to deal with it which seems better to you.
It is very difficult when a person is teaching a spouse how to parent while simultaneously disciplining a child. Even so, that can be overcome too, with God's grace and great perseverance (ask me how I know).
The screaming is 10x worse than spanking. My mom yelled a lot and unfortunately it’s a habit I inherited but in praying and really trying now to yell. Yelling
This is very interesting. When most parents show discipline to their children. They are not doing it out of punishing the child, but rather showing a form of tough love. Most parents love their children and want to correct their children’s mistakes, even if it requires discipline.
I was spanked as a child, and as a result I have respect for authority as an adult. There is very little discipline of children these days, and it shows based on the behavior of young adults now. Bring back the spankings.
I was spanked as a child and I learned that if I was "bad" my parents would hurt me. I learned to be ashamed of making mistakes, and I became anxious and fearful all the time.
@@laurenchambers4974 I'm sorry you feel that way, but I stand by my statements. I was spanked when I deserved it as a child, and it did me well. I am in my 30's now, and I have a very close relationship with my father. If my husband and I are ever lucky enough to have children, we will spank them as well. I think society has convinced children that if they were spanked, they were abused. Spankings are not abuse when done correctly, and as Doug Wilson pointed out, are commanded by God. Spare the rod, spoil the child. There is a place for healthy fear, both of God, your parents, and authority. Society today has no fear and no respect. Bring back the spankings.
@@Franquie "I'm sorry you feel that way" is the most gaslighting thing I have ever heard! Kids make mistakes, they mess up because they are still learning how to function. Children need an environment of grace and compassion, just like the way God treats us. We need to know it's okay to make a mistake, it's okay to mess up and not to live in fear of doing the wrong thing. "Spare the rod" is an old way of thinking and Jesus came so that we may have a new covenant...
@@laurenchambers4974 I stopped listening the moment you told me that I was gaslighting you. Since that's the way you want to go with this, and now anything I might add is going to be taken by you as abusive or mean, we are done. Have a great rest of your day.
@@Franquie I didn't say you were gaslighting me, I just said that the phrase "sorry you feel that way" is a gaslighting phrase. It puts the blame back on the person just for feeling a certain way and relinquishes responsibility. It's a non-apology.
A spank or pow pow as my Latino husbands family refers to it has been interesting for me as a woman who was raised by dr Spock gentle parents (mom mostly). Also I’ve listened to all the parenting books you’ve put out Pastor on Canon + app. The simplest way I can under what a pow pow does when a toddler doesn’t do what he is supposed to do and you’ve tried every which way to be firm and gentle about it, it’s the quick hand to butt (under diaper) (((((( startled look you get that the toddler knows that you are the authority. ))))) It’s toddler speak. Now the toddler will do what he is told. It usually works out well and isn’t used often or in anger. Now to understand what to do when the toddler also asks you to kiss their butt to make it feel better.
So if your husband hits you on the butt after he’s tried in vain to get you to do something you’re doused to do (but not often or in anger) is that okay?
MyLifeForAuir87 I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what @Arts Crafts said. I'm only trying to figure out where your question comes from. This whole video is about biblically based discipline for kids. Knowing that, are you saying that it is biblically correct if the "...husband hits you on the butt after...?" Or are you attempting to introduce reasoning, that's not based in Scripture into the conversation? If it is based in Scripture, do you happen to have scripture references that support it? If it's not based in Scripture, but instead comes from secular reasoning, then my question becomes, why are you trying to introduce an argument, that is not based in Scripture, into a comment section about child discipline that is based in Scripture?
In regards to the last bit, on whether the child understands: I have met some children who could understand only so much (due not to age but intellectual capacity). For such, a clarity of speech and direction and an increase of caution is meet. Even if they have connected the bad behavior and what they want, they might not have connected the bad behavior and the punishment. Thus, clear and direct statements of 'why' are (more) necessary than might appear on first blush.
@@rseward7183 Having a disability doesn’t exempt anyone from discipline, but if someone has a cognitive impairment it’s medieval to try to explain road safety to them with violence rather than patience and words. Perhaps they just shouldn’t play unattended by a road at this point in their development.
@@rseward7183 Noooo, it doesn't. I'm simply saying that some kids need clearer instruction than others. If they're certain types of disabled, maybe they shouldn't have access to the road.
I love how people in this comment section are in here complaining about us Christian’s disciplining our children. The God of the universe commanded us to do so and they think we will listen to them over him. Why are you even on this channel?
Too many Christians these days hate God's law and do whatever seems right in their own eyes. Worse, they are mortified that a Christian would love Christ enough to obey his commandments.
I find it highly strange no one ever talks about the obvious psycho-sexual implications and ramifications of spanking. I feel like a slap on the wrist could easily accomplish the same goal. You have the child submit to their punishment by holding out their wrist. Seems more than a tad questionable to me to say "Ok time for discipline. Now turn around, pull down your pants and bend over." I don't think I'm the weird one for thinking that's weird but perhaps I've just had my view skewed by a Godless world
Yeah I agree, the shame from it can have effects like that too. I feel like it’s not discussed enough in this topic. What other factors do you think might contribute to the unwanted psycho-sexual ramifications?
@@apracity7672 different genders typically require different styles of leadership. So maybe the principles are still true, but i feel like saying "same thing" is a complete falsehood.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. Romans 10:9-10 John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
Anyone who was beaten out of rage will never hit their child. It's painful but the worst is the shame and humiliation. Obviously, you never experienced this awful rejection. I agree with you that you need to be strict when they are very young to form their character before they are faced with the real world.
Lisa, thank you for sharing. I was going to say something along the same lines, but it does have more force coming from personal experience. Bottom line: God’s Grace is sufficient. Even those who were abused can, by His grace, be faithful to the biblical call to use the rod of discipline with love and wisdom.
Nope not true. God can show us how to be good parents regardless of how our parents treated us. He is the perfect example and we are able to know true parenthood through him.
That’s abuse. That isn’t spanking. My mother spanked us, but my mother was a horrifically abused. My grandmother speared dog feces on her when she was a 6 year old, she sent her to her first grade picture day with a black eye, she has scars on her scalp for reasons she has never been able to disclose to me, she beat her so badly one day and then told her to get some salt from the neighbor and that’s when the neighbor called the police, it was almost as if my grandmother wanted to get caught and couldn’t stop herself. An occasional spank is not abuse.
@@bradstafford2858 Make sure to thank Doug's dad who gave that wonderful advice. I'm here learning just like you but I'm glad I could at least point you to those videos. God bless you, my friend.
For an example of how to be strict with “hard to handle” children without resorting to hitting, visit any church-affiliated children’s home. They are forbidden by law to hit (including spanking) yet manage to discipline effectively. Mostly it’s by use of rewards and deprivations, but they also have great spanking alternatives like holding a quarter against the wall with your nose for fifteen minutes. Using yelling or physical force teaches your children to grow up and obey any abuser or government lackey who yells or threatens violence. Force and volume are for emergencies, not training children to be “wise as serpents and innocent as doves” Side note, I’m not against using martial training or careful exposure to potential industrial dangers to scare the crap out of kids, they need to know they are fragile, can be hurt, and can easily hurt each other, but beating the violence out of kids is hypocritical in too many ways. The best argument against spanking though is not philosophical, it’s practical. It doesn’t work as well as other methods. Yes, that sounds “liberal,” but once you’ve seen “unreachable” violent kids set straight without it, you see in hindsight how childish it looks (and is) to call hitting children “discipline.” We stopped using that argument with slaves/servants/employees, and even extended it to women! Now it’s time to free the kids from bad logic and angry outbursts.
Spanking is not the only way to discipline, and doesn't work for every child. Especially those with violent backgrounds I can see them feeling spanking is more of the same. However, Wilson would say you should not be yelling and disciplining in anger anyway. That transfers to kids and they then see the discipline as your upset reaction to what they did. You should never hit your child. A few swats is all that is necessary. Believe me, I do not like doing it and saw firsthand growing up how spanking was applied abusively. I also have seen how spanking can be done well to train. Some children do not respond at all to soft discipline like time outs. Every family needs to decide what works best.
But that’s the thing - it’s NOT ok to beat a child with whips. That’s immoral, illegal, and will and should land you a lengthy jail sentence. So this whole ‘well if it’s ok to beat them half to death it’s ok to whip their ass’ argument doesn’t hold. And the idea that you wouldn’t have to whip them at 16 if you whipped them at 2 is preposterous. This has been studied so thoroughly and for so long that it’s hard to imagine anyone not knowing - children who are beaten as you advocate are more violent and more delinquent as teens and adults than children who were not beaten. It’s really no wonder you all resort to anecdotes from your small childhood town rather than data on this. Violence begets violence. Violence administered ‘by a cool clam and spiritual’ adult isn’t any less violent - it just makes it psychopathic violence.
Comment section in a nutshell. I experienced X as a child, therefore I can declare that everyone in every circumstance, for all of time will behave exactly as I am, right now.
@@swaggbeast815 the people that take that interpretation of scripture usually think the earth is 6-10 thousand years old. Pretty good reason to disregard the opinions of such people.
wow... im trying to focus exuding christian values, but i really want you to know how dumb that comment is. Dont ever compare the (necessary) corporal discipline directed to your toddler son as the same as basically beating or what equates to treating your wife like a energy packed booger machine that poops her diaper. Each relationship has its accepted norms. the spankings for the kids are not the same kind spankings for mom and dad. Grown ups know this. And to answer your question:, "what makes it okay?"- God's wisdom.
@@samhellion i agree the situations are much different. A wife - if being abused - can: fight back physically, leave the relationship, press charges or tell people that care about her and ask for help. She has recourse. An abused (“disciplined with corporal punishment”) toddler can’t do anything about it and is much more vulnerable. That’s where the differences stop, though. It’s perfectly legitimate to compare the two - you just don’t like it because cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable. It’s unequivocally worse to hit kids than it is to hit women, but you hate the lesser and embrace the viler - all while holding the idea in your head that the parental framework you hold is ethical. No wonder you’re confused as hell.
@@samhellion wow… “(necessary) corporal discipline” for toddlers? No thanks. Physical punishment has been shown and it’s well known that it can lead to increased aggression, anti-social behaviour and mental health problems, as well as physical injury! You’re showing much more about yourself than about God’s wisdom here. If you’re about to say that your parents corporally disciplined you and you turned out fine .. I suggest you think again.
Chastisement doesn't specifically mean spank, it could mean different forms discipline. But a punishment should match context and offense. Spanking is a milk toast generic inoculation to weak parenting. Be better teachers as parents.
Good for u. These people r stuck in the past. They avoid learning, they r stagnant. Yet, they speak as if they have insight to improve our world. Its ignorance promoting ignorance & those who also avoid learning, progressing, moving forward, will b happy to hear someone tell them that their ways r suitable.
@@friedricengravy6646 what you have to realize is that progress is a lie. What are we progressing to? It used to be possible to raise a family in a house you owned on a minimum wage single income. Just thirty years ago a school shooting was practically unthinkable. If we are progressing anywhere it's straight off a cliff.
Rookland U r assuming the negatives u mention r a result of progress. U have no idea if the shooter was spanked or not…..U really want to suggest that corporate greed is a result of progressive economics? I know u r hoping that we can return to a time that u see as better, but its a fantasy. Even in that era, something was negative, someone had it worse, etc. My daughter is a straight A student, is awarded for leadership, & stays out of trouble….yet she was parented with modern recommendations. There is so much involved when considering culture & world events, it’s impossible to attach a single or even a few markers that cover the spectrum. So yes, I stand behind my statement. We need to progress beyond the existing & previous standard because as u point out, the results r not acceptable.
I don't care if it's "unloving" I don't care if it's "abuse" I don't care if it's "violent" these words only effect our psychology/perception, they do nothing to change the nature of the thing itself, only manipulate us and how we view it. If there was a world where it was unloving and one where it was loving, it'd hurt just the same in both worlds and be identical in nature, this is what Shakespeare meant by "a rose by any other name smells just as sweet" the labels we attach to something only effect our perception, they do NOT change the nature of the thing itself, NOTHING changes. Point is, does it hurt? Yes, does it cause physical pain? Yes, is it as Jesus said "doing unto other's as we'd like to have done unto us"? No, these are the questions we SHOULD ask ourselves when facing all moral questions, it's the reason I don't believe in hitting my wife, it's not something I'd like done to me and it hurts her feeling's, she might cry, it will sting, it will perhaps cause her fear etc, These PRESENT day suffering's which she'd experience when I hit her are not irrelevant nor would they be justified if somehow against all odds, she manifested some benefit "down the line" in the future from it. There's a LOT of assumptions underneath this topic, all of which manipulate our perceptions of human beings into something false. This idea there's a "learning" period and then you become a "fully grown/finished person" is not only false when examined but dangerous. It's dangerous because it causes people to view those before the alleged "finished" period as not actually people, (a 10 year old is just as fully formed as a 50 year old because neither of them are at all) so they aren't given "human" rights or protections, this means *ALL* of us, "minors" are not "the other" they're you and I for many, many years and it's not a good idea to remove protections from ourselves during any time of our lives as much as it is to instill them for all of it. There's countless reasons this is much WORSE than hitting your spouse but I'll list just some of them (and trust me it isn't even them all, it's just the other ones branch into others things would need explaining why those are bad things.) - Spouse consented to be there in the first place your son/daughter did not. (or at least we think this is the case) Spouse is bigger and stronger (it's more cowardly to bully smaller ones plus this can hurt/harm them more) If your spouse really is "all finished" this "adult" thing finally and should "know better" and be "wise" "responsible" and "mature" wouldn't it make more sense to punish them than someone who is still learning? shouldn't we have less patience for those who "know better" and still do wrong? and more with novices? Your son/daughter's brain will still be developing until they're 25-early 30's and stress, anxiety and all forms of suffering release negative chemicals (that's what you're actually feeling, when you feel bad) all of which are HORRIBLE for the brain, isn't this why you claim you don't like your son or daughter drinking alcohol or doing drugs? if you REALLY care about their brain/them, you would be opposed to everything which harms it not just the stuff society is against and fine with the normalised ones. Basically it's causing them brain damage and YES IT DOES and there's ton's of evidence. It encourages them to develop an "external morality compass" which is the leading cause of selfishness in the world as it's training someone through something powerful like pain to focus on how their actions effect THEM rather than others and avoid doing wrong because it'll cause them pain (not because doing right is the right thing) basically conditioning someone to only do the right thing when there'll be bad consequences for them if they don't, if that's your reasoning for behaving yourself (self-preservation) then you aren't a good person. Reason this isn't so bad with your wife is it's less likely to help her develop one seeing as she'll have been living that much longer with her current motives for doing right, whatever they may be so swing away at her eh? It also robs someone of their ability to be self-disciplined, a real internal motivation rather than an external one (you) this is similar to doing the right thing morally in that you're retarded their development by making them not only relie on you for moral motivation rather than themselves but also for discipline too, discipline is an inate trait in all of us and punish someone reduces their discipline it may appear to increase it at the moment but long term it's terrible for it and as soon as your threat of punishment goes away (and it will some day) so will there discipline if it relied on it so long like above not as bad hitting your wife because it also won't be as likely to develop this with her (although it very well could too if hitting her long enough). Hitting someone you should have more paintence with not less and who ironically relies on you for protection, who can't just leave when they want, who can't physically defend themselves, who's more likely to adopt the above mentioned traits (external morality and discipline reliance, both of which are very dangerous) who's brain will be damaged by it and who's going to pass on any of the damage and suffer the consequence of it longer than an older person due to having more life left, they'll have to suffer any consequences of your actions longer than a wife would, it's clearly much worse for several reasons, it breeds lack of empathy too and makes people worse human beings, this creates a larger dillema of is it fair for God to permit those who've been moulded negatively into worse people by their parent's to go to hell forever and ever, if that doctrine of eternal torment is true, we're in an unspeakably dark and dire situation in that someone will force you through suffering into a worse person and then YOU will have to suffer for it, for ever and ever always paying the price of someone else's decisions. Is it a good idea generally speaking to expose children to pain and violence and public humiliation in the hopes of encouraging healthy emotional development and good behaviour? Is there any doubt there's an answer to this question AND that is matters? - Sam Harris Ted Talk regarding school corporeal punishment the thing hardened criminals no matter how violent and perverse and evil are protected from but a child no matter how sweet and innocent and playful and kind is NOT protected from, that also means ALL of us guys aren't protected from it (think about it) when in the case of the criminal it'd only be those commiting henious crimes not protected from it. This is cruel, unjust, bigoted, misguided in the extreme, harmful in many ways (even branches out and causes wars as the psychology of all of us lived in a house which taught that's how disagreements/conflicts are settled with the bigger party enforcing their will on the smaller one not mutual discussion/respect and goes directly against the teaching's of Jesus (treating others how you'd like to be treated) "truly I say unto you if you do not become like a child you will never see the kingdom of heaven" also doesn't sound like Jesus was so caught up in the unearned hubris of grown children and seen adults were the exact opposite of mature and needed to actually regress back into being less awful to ever get to heaven. There's a reason many parent's feel gulity after doing it (their conscience something which exists deeper down underneath the brain-washing/rationalisations) or as a relgious person might say "the voice of God" the inner witness of the holy spirit, the law written on the hearts so they're without excuse, you NEVER feel guilty after doing the right thing, guilt your part of you which knows better talking. there's also a reason picturing Jesus spanking a child would make us all uneasy and feel "off" because we recognise it as unkind and un Christ like. The sort of thing if he was caught doing atheists would have a flied day. It's self-evidently breeching the "golden rule" very, very harmful and disrespectful and degrading and offensive and mean and discriminatory and very, VERY clearly does nobody any good and only harm.
@@kaylar3197 Yeah but then he goes on to endorse it, disturbing, discouraging and sickening to listen to for me personally, it's even more all of those things when coming from a kindly person because it shows how even good people can be turned into cruel bigots and just switch it off and on, it's creepy.
All children need discipline but I think whether to spank or not depends on the temperament of the child. Some just need a stern word, and they listen. Others are more stubborn and defiant. And in them, I definitely think spanking in the mindful way is really important. I work in a daycare. I see everyday what happens when parents don’t discipline or spank their defiant children. It’s terrible and creates kids that are almost unmanageable. It might be cute as toddler, not so cute when they grow up to be teenagers yelling at you or slamming doors cause they know they can get away with it.
@@djkelley6649 no they do as long as you have 2000 followers and have hit a view hours threshold. Just feel like Doug would be against google using his content for their billboards.
The goal is not merely conformity to the standard, but to love the standard. Very wise, Sir.
Hey, I was beat bloody as a kid, then spend 12 years in a parental relationship with my spoiled stepdaughter who ultimately ended up no better, as she never listened to me.
I've seen it both ways.
Discipline is absolutely nessessary but...love is never unnecessary. Discipline only exists in the loving heart, and a disciplined heart will never exceed what is necessary for correction, out of love.
I've heard it described 'the opposite of love is not hatred but apathy.' Not caring enough to properly discipline children is the opposite of loving them...
Well said.
Doug must have been the most loved and disciplined as a young boy because he is, in fact, wise. Thank you Doug’s parents!!!
Your analogy of the parents obeying to whining and the child understanding he got what he wants, then he is old enough for discipline to match what the parents wants. Bravo! What a wonderful way to put it, in the exact same senerio.
Thanks Pastor Doug!!!
As a father of 7, I can’t recommend ‘Why Children Matter’ (where I first read in depth on the above) enough!!
It’s short, clear, scriptural, and a book my wife and I reference often!
This is right on time for my family. 3 and 6 yo little boys. Thank you!
By 3 and 6, most corporal punishment should be completed. If you have not already spanked them, then it is probably too late. Pray!!
Our children are growing up on our working farm. My daughter is 2 years old and helps butcher chickens, plant potatoes, harvest garlic, do chicken chores, and catch chickens plus she helps with some construction work.
I have a rule for my wife and I that spanking can only be done when we're not angry. When you're not angry, and when you least want to spank them, that is the proper mindset to be in during the spanking. For me that can be directly after the offense. For my wife it takes a minute or two.
I don't agree with the "never spank when you are angry" idea. I think it's good for our kids to see us angry when it's justified.
@@UnderTheFloor79 I'd imagine this commenter meant you don't spank while angry. So your children would still see the anger, but you wouldn't get physical in a blinding rage and go a little too far. Sometimes anger makes you irrational and doing anything while angry is very risky business.
@@brackets6188 I have been angry with my kids many times but never in a "blinding rage".
So yeah, I would agree, never spank your kids when you are in a blinding rage.
I would love to send this to my daughter, she has you 3 kids and refuses to discipline them. She has completely turned her back on God, and my SiL chewed me out recently for giving the two oldest kids age-appropriate Bibles (funny thing is that my daughter and SiL met in church!). These two oldest are little hooligans. When I suggest that they need to be spanked, she says, "I love them too much." We don't get together as often as I'd like because they destroy the house when they're here and even though my daughter cleans it up (most of the time), they inevitably break or "lose" something. All I know to do is pray that they return to the Lord before it's too late.
As someone who avoids inviting people with unruly children over, I was recently convicted of my love for possessions over people. I don’t know you, so take this with a grain of salt. But, usually, it’s worth having difficult kids over knowing they will break things and not take care of them for the sake of relationship. I’m trying to value my things less (with gritted teeth I might add)
☝🏻No. the opposite. Teach your older daughter with the same discipline. No. You can’t come over because you refuse my wisdom. Since you can’t and don’t respect me as your father you children don’t either and your worse. Until you can control and grow up into maturity as a parent and adult, your children won’t either. So, no as discipline (Doug said their is few age appropriate verses, the majority are kids regardless of age) as her dad, continue to teach and discipline her. Obviously, she knows nothing.
It isn’t about material things it is about spiritual. ☝🏻 They gave up. They didn’t come to some higher moral ladder. Fear. Gave up. Loss of self respect, not the love of material things.
Appreciate the breakdown and specific and necessary distinctions between being gentle, abusive and wise in or with Godly discipline. 🙂✌️❤️
Thank you for your videos and your faithfulness to God and His Word.
Something my dad said to me that is true. Little kids little problems big kids big problems you are going to have to deal with it which seems better to you.
It can be a struggle when one parent doesn't believe in any sort of physical discipline, but does yell constantly.
It is very difficult when a person is teaching a spouse how to parent while simultaneously disciplining a child. Even so, that can be overcome too, with God's grace and great perseverance (ask me how I know).
I don't remember getting spanked a whole lot (though I know that I was) but I do remember my mom screaming at me. That hurt... Really hurt.
The screaming is 10x worse than spanking. My mom yelled a lot and unfortunately it’s a habit I inherited but in praying and really trying now to yell. Yelling
Seems like two sides of the same coin.
@@What-he5pr spanking and not being angry and screaming out of control are two totally different things.
This encouraged me so much. Thank you!!
I needed to hear this...thank you for the upload brother.
Thanks again Doug, very well done
This is very interesting. When most parents show discipline to their children. They are not doing it out of punishing the child, but rather showing a form of tough love. Most parents love their children and want to correct their children’s mistakes, even if it requires discipline.
Excellent.
Love this!
I was spanked as a child, and as a result I have respect for authority as an adult. There is very little discipline of children these days, and it shows based on the behavior of young adults now. Bring back the spankings.
I was spanked as a child and I learned that if I was "bad" my parents would hurt me. I learned to be ashamed of making mistakes, and I became anxious and fearful all the time.
@@laurenchambers4974 I'm sorry you feel that way, but I stand by my statements. I was spanked when I deserved it as a child, and it did me well. I am in my 30's now, and I have a very close relationship with my father. If my husband and I are ever lucky enough to have children, we will spank them as well. I think society has convinced children that if they were spanked, they were abused. Spankings are not abuse when done correctly, and as Doug Wilson pointed out, are commanded by God. Spare the rod, spoil the child. There is a place for healthy fear, both of God, your parents, and authority. Society today has no fear and no respect. Bring back the spankings.
@@Franquie "I'm sorry you feel that way" is the most gaslighting thing I have ever heard! Kids make mistakes, they mess up because they are still learning how to function. Children need an environment of grace and compassion, just like the way God treats us. We need to know it's okay to make a mistake, it's okay to mess up and not to live in fear of doing the wrong thing. "Spare the rod" is an old way of thinking and Jesus came so that we may have a new covenant...
@@laurenchambers4974 I stopped listening the moment you told me that I was gaslighting you. Since that's the way you want to go with this, and now anything I might add is going to be taken by you as abusive or mean, we are done. Have a great rest of your day.
@@Franquie I didn't say you were gaslighting me, I just said that the phrase "sorry you feel that way" is a gaslighting phrase. It puts the blame back on the person just for feeling a certain way and relinquishes responsibility. It's a non-apology.
A spank or pow pow as my Latino husbands family refers to it has been interesting for me as a woman who was raised by dr Spock gentle parents (mom mostly).
Also I’ve listened to all the parenting books you’ve put out Pastor on Canon + app.
The simplest way I can under what a pow pow does when a toddler doesn’t do what he is supposed to do and you’ve tried every which way to be firm and gentle about it,
it’s the quick hand to butt (under diaper) (((((( startled look you get that the toddler knows that you are the authority. )))))
It’s toddler speak. Now the toddler will do what he is told. It usually works out well and isn’t used often or in anger.
Now to understand what to do when the toddler also asks you to kiss their butt to make it feel better.
So if your husband hits you on the butt after he’s tried in vain to get you to do something you’re doused to do (but not often or in anger) is that okay?
MyLifeForAuir87
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what @Arts Crafts said. I'm only trying to figure out where your question comes from.
This whole video is about biblically based discipline for kids. Knowing that, are you saying that it is biblically correct if the "...husband hits you on the butt after...?" Or are you attempting to introduce reasoning, that's not based in Scripture into the conversation?
If it is based in Scripture, do you happen to have scripture references that support it?
If it's not based in Scripture, but instead comes from secular reasoning, then my question becomes, why are you trying to introduce an argument, that is not based in Scripture, into a comment section about child discipline that is based in Scripture?
In regards to the last bit, on whether the child understands:
I have met some children who could understand only so much (due not to age but intellectual capacity). For such, a clarity of speech and direction and an increase of caution is meet. Even if they have connected the bad behavior and what they want, they might not have connected the bad behavior and the punishment. Thus, clear and direct statements of 'why' are (more) necessary than might appear on first blush.
@@rseward7183 Having a disability doesn’t exempt anyone from discipline, but if someone has a cognitive impairment it’s medieval to try to explain road safety to them with violence rather than patience and words.
Perhaps they just shouldn’t play unattended by a road at this point in their development.
@@rseward7183 Noooo, it doesn't. I'm simply saying that some kids need clearer instruction than others.
If they're certain types of disabled, maybe they shouldn't have access to the road.
I love how people in this comment section are in here complaining about us Christian’s disciplining our children. The God of the universe commanded us to do so and they think we will listen to them over him. Why are you even on this channel?
Too many Christians these days hate God's law and do whatever seems right in their own eyes. Worse, they are mortified that a Christian would love Christ enough to obey his commandments.
I find it highly strange no one ever talks about the obvious psycho-sexual implications and ramifications of spanking. I feel like a slap on the wrist could easily accomplish the same goal. You have the child submit to their punishment by holding out their wrist. Seems more than a tad questionable to me to say "Ok time for discipline. Now turn around, pull down your pants and bend over." I don't think I'm the weird one for thinking that's weird but perhaps I've just had my view skewed by a Godless world
Yeah I agree, the shame from it can have effects like that too. I feel like it’s not discussed enough in this topic. What other factors do you think might contribute to the unwanted psycho-sexual ramifications?
How much to hire Doug for some copywriting?
Many Christian parents are functionally like Rousseau. Overly gentle parenting is just an outworking of it.
Don't be afraid to apply pressure to the "seat of knowledge" ........
The animal kingdom uses swatting. I have seen a lot of big cat mommas swat kittens who were doing something (whatever Mamma thought) wrong.
What about daughters?
Same thing
@@apracity7672 different genders typically require different styles of leadership. So maybe the principles are still true, but i feel like saying "same thing" is a complete falsehood.
@@samhellion I meant same thing as in physical discipline for them too, unless im missing something
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
Romans 10:9-10
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
I suppose the drag queen ad that just popped up during this sermon was accidental ..
Did the editor forget to insert the Clint Eastwood meme? Spanking incoming. 🙌🏼
For all the memes and links, go to Doug’s blog.
Anyone who was beaten out of rage will never hit their child. It's painful but the worst is the shame and humiliation. Obviously, you never experienced this awful rejection.
I agree with you that you need to be strict when they are very young to form their character before they are faced with the real world.
Not entirely true, my husband was beaten out of rage as a child, however he does spanked our children calm headed.
Lisa, thank you for sharing. I was going to say something along the same lines, but it does have more force coming from personal experience. Bottom line: God’s Grace is sufficient. Even those who were abused can, by His grace, be faithful to the biblical call to use the rod of discipline with love and wisdom.
Nope not true. God can show us how to be good parents regardless of how our parents treated us. He is the perfect example and we are able to know true parenthood through him.
That’s abuse. That isn’t spanking. My mother spanked us, but my mother was a horrifically abused. My grandmother speared dog feces on her when she was a 6 year old, she sent her to her first grade picture day with a black eye, she has scars on her scalp for reasons she has never been able to disclose to me, she beat her so badly one day and then told her to get some salt from the neighbor and that’s when the neighbor called the police, it was almost as if my grandmother wanted to get caught and couldn’t stop herself. An occasional spank is not abuse.
Amen 🙏 🙏 🙏
4:38
Interesting.
8:58
Jim Wilson:
ruclips.net/video/GwFUpfZcKe8/видео.html
13:03
The standard:
ruclips.net/video/nG_h_PtxMHs/видео.html
Gold! Thanks Kevin!
@@bradstafford2858
Make sure to thank Doug's dad who gave that wonderful advice.
I'm here learning just like you but I'm glad I could at least point you to those videos.
God bless you, my friend.
For the algorithm
For an example of how to be strict with “hard to handle” children without resorting to hitting, visit any church-affiliated children’s home. They are forbidden by law to hit (including spanking) yet manage to discipline effectively. Mostly it’s by use of rewards and deprivations, but they also have great spanking alternatives like holding a quarter against the wall with your nose for fifteen minutes.
Using yelling or physical force teaches your children to grow up and obey any abuser or government lackey who yells or threatens violence. Force and volume are for emergencies, not training children to be “wise as serpents and innocent as doves”
Side note, I’m not against using martial training or careful exposure to potential industrial dangers to scare the crap out of kids, they need to know they are fragile, can be hurt, and can easily hurt each other, but beating the violence out of kids is hypocritical in too many ways.
The best argument against spanking though is not philosophical, it’s practical. It doesn’t work as well as other methods. Yes, that sounds “liberal,” but once you’ve seen “unreachable” violent kids set straight without it, you see in hindsight how childish it looks (and is) to call hitting children “discipline.” We stopped using that argument with slaves/servants/employees, and even extended it to women! Now it’s time to free the kids from bad logic and angry outbursts.
Spanking is not the only way to discipline, and doesn't work for every child. Especially those with violent backgrounds I can see them feeling spanking is more of the same. However, Wilson would say you should not be yelling and disciplining in anger anyway. That transfers to kids and they then see the discipline as your upset reaction to what they did. You should never hit your child. A few swats is all that is necessary.
Believe me, I do not like doing it and saw firsthand growing up how spanking was applied abusively. I also have seen how spanking can be done well to train. Some children do not respond at all to soft discipline like time outs. Every family needs to decide what works best.
Amen, brother.
But that’s the thing - it’s NOT ok to beat a child with whips. That’s immoral, illegal, and will and should land you a lengthy jail sentence. So this whole ‘well if it’s ok to beat them half to death it’s ok to whip their ass’ argument doesn’t hold. And the idea that you wouldn’t have to whip them at 16 if you whipped them at 2 is preposterous. This has been studied so thoroughly and for so long that it’s hard to imagine anyone not knowing - children who are beaten as you advocate are more violent and more delinquent as teens and adults than children who were not beaten. It’s really no wonder you all resort to anecdotes from your small childhood town rather than data on this. Violence begets violence. Violence administered ‘by a cool clam and spiritual’ adult isn’t any less violent - it just makes it psychopathic violence.
Hmm. Parents can outsource discipline to someone else. Give it 20-30 years and a prison guard will do their job for them.
Comment section in a nutshell.
I experienced X as a child, therefore I can declare that everyone in every circumstance, for all of time will behave exactly as I am, right now.
3:13 I think Doug meant Proverbs 13:24
6:19 Seems like a misquotation here.
To your first point, yes, I think you’re right. To your second, that’s what my Bible says. Are you reading in NKJV?
Just imagine doing these things to your wife... Now what makes it okay to do it to a more vulnerable human in the form of a toddler?
Because the Lord did not command that husbands discipline their wives with the rod of correction, but he did command they do so with their children.
@@swaggbeast815 the people that take that interpretation of scripture usually think the earth is 6-10 thousand years old.
Pretty good reason to disregard the opinions of such people.
wow... im trying to focus exuding christian values, but i really want you to know how dumb that comment is. Dont ever compare the (necessary) corporal discipline directed to your toddler son as the same as basically beating or what equates to treating your wife like a energy packed booger machine that poops her diaper. Each relationship has its accepted norms. the spankings for the kids are not the same kind spankings for mom and dad. Grown ups know this.
And to answer your question:, "what makes it okay?"- God's wisdom.
@@samhellion i agree the situations are much different. A wife - if being abused - can: fight back physically, leave the relationship, press charges or tell people that care about her and ask for help. She has recourse.
An abused (“disciplined with corporal punishment”) toddler can’t do anything about it and is much more vulnerable.
That’s where the differences stop, though. It’s perfectly legitimate to compare the two - you just don’t like it because cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable.
It’s unequivocally worse to hit kids than it is to hit women, but you hate the lesser and embrace the viler - all while holding the idea in your head that the parental framework you hold is ethical.
No wonder you’re confused as hell.
@@samhellion wow… “(necessary) corporal discipline” for toddlers? No thanks. Physical punishment has been shown and it’s well known that it can lead to increased aggression, anti-social behaviour and mental health problems, as well as physical injury!
You’re showing much more about yourself than about God’s wisdom here. If you’re about to say that your parents corporally disciplined you and you turned out fine .. I suggest you think again.
Spanking a child should be to teach them right and wrong.Not merely an outlet for the parent's anger.
Chastisement doesn't specifically mean spank, it could mean different forms discipline. But a punishment should match context and offense. Spanking is a milk toast generic inoculation to weak parenting. Be better teachers as parents.
I will never hit my children, and I dare anyone to come to my house and tell me I don't discipline them or disciple them.
This makes you a foolish parent.
Good for u. These people r stuck in the past. They avoid learning, they r stagnant. Yet, they speak as if they have insight to improve our world. Its ignorance promoting ignorance & those who also avoid learning, progressing, moving forward, will b happy to hear someone tell them that their ways r suitable.
If you don't post your address then no one will come.
@@friedricengravy6646 what you have to realize is that progress is a lie. What are we progressing to? It used to be possible to raise a family in a house you owned on a minimum wage single income. Just thirty years ago a school shooting was practically unthinkable. If we are progressing anywhere it's straight off a cliff.
Rookland U r assuming the negatives u mention r a result of progress. U have no idea if the shooter was spanked or not…..U really want to suggest that corporate greed is a result of progressive economics? I know u r hoping that we can return to a time that u see as better, but its a fantasy. Even in that era, something was negative, someone had it worse, etc. My daughter is a straight A student, is awarded for leadership, & stays out of trouble….yet she was parented with modern recommendations. There is so much involved when considering culture & world events, it’s impossible to attach a single or even a few markers that cover the spectrum. So yes, I stand behind my statement. We need to progress beyond the existing & previous standard because as u point out, the results r not acceptable.
I don't care if it's "unloving" I don't care if it's "abuse" I don't care if it's "violent" these words only effect our psychology/perception, they do nothing to change the nature of the thing itself, only manipulate us and how we view it. If there was a world where it was unloving and one where it was loving, it'd hurt just the same in both worlds and be identical in nature, this is what Shakespeare meant by "a rose by any other name smells just as sweet" the labels we attach to something only effect our perception, they do NOT change the nature of the thing itself, NOTHING changes.
Point is, does it hurt? Yes, does it cause physical pain? Yes, is it as Jesus said "doing unto other's as we'd like to have done unto us"? No, these are the questions we SHOULD ask ourselves when facing all moral questions, it's the reason I don't believe in hitting my wife, it's not something I'd like done to me and it hurts her feeling's, she might cry, it will sting, it will perhaps cause her fear etc,
These PRESENT day suffering's which she'd experience when I hit her are not irrelevant nor would they be justified if somehow against all odds, she manifested some benefit "down the line" in the future from it. There's a LOT of assumptions underneath this topic, all of which manipulate our perceptions of human beings into something false. This idea there's a "learning" period and then you become a "fully grown/finished person" is not only false when examined but dangerous.
It's dangerous because it causes people to view those before the alleged "finished" period as not actually people, (a 10 year old is just as fully formed as a 50 year old because neither of them are at all) so they aren't given "human" rights or protections, this means *ALL* of us, "minors" are not "the other" they're you and I for many, many years and it's not a good idea to remove protections from ourselves during any time of our lives as much as it is to instill them for all of it.
There's countless reasons this is much WORSE than hitting your spouse but I'll list just some of them (and trust me it isn't even them all, it's just the other ones branch into others things would need explaining why those are bad things.) -
Spouse consented to be there in the first place your son/daughter did not. (or at least we think this is the case)
Spouse is bigger and stronger (it's more cowardly to bully smaller ones plus this can hurt/harm them more)
If your spouse really is "all finished" this "adult" thing finally and should "know better" and be "wise" "responsible" and "mature" wouldn't it make more sense to punish them than someone who is still learning? shouldn't we have less patience for those who "know better" and still do wrong? and more with novices?
Your son/daughter's brain will still be developing until they're 25-early 30's and stress, anxiety and all forms of suffering release negative chemicals (that's what you're actually feeling, when you feel bad) all of which are HORRIBLE for the brain, isn't this why you claim you don't like your son or daughter drinking alcohol or doing drugs? if you REALLY care about their brain/them, you would be opposed to everything which harms it not just the stuff society is against and fine with the normalised ones. Basically it's causing them brain damage and YES IT DOES and there's ton's of evidence.
It encourages them to develop an "external morality compass" which is the leading cause of selfishness in the world as it's training someone through something powerful like pain to focus on how their actions effect THEM rather than others and avoid doing wrong because it'll cause them pain (not because doing right is the right thing) basically conditioning someone to only do the right thing when there'll be bad consequences for them if they don't, if that's your reasoning for behaving yourself (self-preservation) then you aren't a good person.
Reason this isn't so bad with your wife is it's less likely to help her develop one seeing as she'll have been living that much longer with her current motives for doing right, whatever they may be so swing away at her eh?
It also robs someone of their ability to be self-disciplined, a real internal motivation rather than an external one (you) this is similar to doing the right thing morally in that you're retarded their development by making them not only relie on you for moral motivation rather than themselves but also for discipline too, discipline is an inate trait in all of us and punish someone reduces their discipline it may appear to increase it at the moment but long term it's terrible for it and as soon as your threat of punishment goes away (and it will some day) so will there discipline if it relied on it so long like above not as bad hitting your wife because it also won't be as likely to develop this with her (although it very well could too if hitting her long enough).
Hitting someone you should have more paintence with not less and who ironically relies on you for protection, who can't just leave when they want, who can't physically defend themselves, who's more likely to adopt the above mentioned traits (external morality and discipline reliance, both of which are very dangerous) who's brain will be damaged by it and who's going to pass on any of the damage and suffer the consequence of it longer than an older person due to having more life left, they'll have to suffer any consequences of your actions longer than a wife would, it's clearly much worse for several reasons, it breeds lack of empathy too and makes people worse human beings, this creates a larger dillema of is it fair for God to permit those who've been moulded negatively into worse people by their parent's to go to hell forever and ever, if that doctrine of eternal torment is true, we're in an unspeakably dark and dire situation in that someone will force you through suffering into a worse person and then YOU will have to suffer for it, for ever and ever always paying the price of someone else's decisions.
Is it a good idea generally speaking to expose children to pain and violence and public humiliation in the hopes of encouraging healthy emotional development and good behaviour? Is there any doubt there's an answer to this question AND that is matters? - Sam Harris Ted Talk regarding school corporeal punishment the thing hardened criminals no matter how violent and perverse and evil are protected from but a child no matter how sweet and innocent and playful and kind is NOT protected from, that also means ALL of us guys aren't protected from it (think about it) when in the case of the criminal it'd only be those commiting henious crimes not protected from it.
This is cruel, unjust, bigoted, misguided in the extreme, harmful in many ways (even branches out and causes wars as the psychology of all of us lived in a house which taught that's how disagreements/conflicts are settled with the bigger party enforcing their will on the smaller one not mutual discussion/respect and goes directly against the teaching's of Jesus (treating others how you'd like to be treated) "truly I say unto you if you do not become like a child you will never see the kingdom of heaven" also doesn't sound like Jesus was so caught up in the unearned hubris of grown children and seen adults were the exact opposite of mature and needed to actually regress back into being less awful to ever get to heaven. There's a reason many parent's feel gulity after doing it (their conscience something which exists deeper down underneath the brain-washing/rationalisations) or as a relgious person might say "the voice of God" the inner witness of the holy spirit, the law written on the hearts so they're without excuse, you NEVER feel guilty after doing the right thing, guilt your part of you which knows better talking. there's also a reason picturing Jesus spanking a child would make us all uneasy and feel "off" because we recognise it as unkind and un Christ like. The sort of thing if he was caught doing atheists would have a flied day.
It's self-evidently breeching the "golden rule" very, very harmful and disrespectful and degrading and offensive and mean and discriminatory and very, VERY clearly does nobody any good and only harm.
Illustrating Doug’s point about pride, 14:56
@@kaylar3197 Yeah but then he goes on to endorse it, disturbing, discouraging and sickening to listen to for me personally, it's even more all of those things when coming from a kindly person because it shows how even good people can be turned into cruel bigots and just switch it off and on, it's creepy.
@Kayla R, Dude! This is a lot of psychological babbling... Darn! I'm sorry but confused.
TLDR
@@lacklusterami too long?
How many WPM do you read? It really only took about thirty seconds
All children need discipline but I think whether to spank or not depends on the temperament of the child. Some just need a stern word, and they listen. Others are more stubborn and defiant. And in them, I definitely think spanking in the mindful way is really important. I work in a daycare. I see everyday what happens when parents don’t discipline or spank their defiant children. It’s terrible and creates kids that are almost unmanageable. It might be cute as toddler, not so cute when they grow up to be teenagers yelling at you or slamming doors cause they know they can get away with it.
Unskippable adds 😡
That's how he makes a living.
I think RUclips no longer gives you the choice on whether or not there will be ads in your video.
@@djkelley6649 no they do as long as you have 2000 followers and have hit a view hours threshold. Just feel like Doug would be against google using his content for their billboards.
Weird. I didn’t have a single ad. 🤷🏻♀️
Ew.
all disobedience or all independence? Children aren't supposed to be mindless parrots...
united states i guess
Don't wonk my willie.