Another great informative and educational video from Hunt Primitive. I have learned more about archeology and anthropology from Ryan Gill than from all my college professors. I believe he deserves an honorary degree. I’m serious. This is great stuff. Living archaeology and anthropology.
I agree, though it is a risk to assume an engineering mindset in the past. We didn't achieve that in the West until very recently. Sure, saying they experienced certain changes just by trial and error seems reasonable enough. Though, I was super interested in Japanese Carpentry back in the '80s. It was typical even at that late a time, in that technical a society, for nobody to have any explanations for anything. Partly, this is in their religious approach, if you overlay their focus on the essence of things, on tools; partly it was protecting trade secrets, arguably; It was also in the nature of apprenticeships that you start sweeping the floor, and X years later you are fully formed, and will repeat the same tasks for the rest of your life.
if you look at amazonian tribes or some african tribes they also used javelin sized arrows to hunt without shooting ridiculous draw weights. much less fps but lots of weight.
Hey man I just wanted to say thanks. I don't know if you benefit much from doing these videos but I sure appreciate them. Super interesting and relaxing. I am going to take this up as a small hobby. I promise I'll buy my first flint knapping set from your establishment! Thanks again!
Overspined arrows are my favorites, they last much longer than the right spinned arrows, I currently experiment with huge thick hazel arrows weighing about 55 - 70 grams, they look like typical old siberian arrows.
I never had any issues with overspined arrows until I started reading archery websites. There's no way English Longbow archers had standard weight bows or matched arrows; maybe accuracy wasn't really that important though?
Hi Ryan great video and very informative, thanks. I think prehistoric humans would have learnt at an early age the way different weight arrows flew . From my own childhood, playing with bows and arrows simply sticks cut from the hedge , I found the heavier ones stuck in better which led me to try all sorts ( including some that resembled small logs to no avail lol ) of thickness and length of shafts . Oh reminiscing of the good old carefree days growing up on the farm lol. Great video again, take care.
I Just build my first primitive bow this morning, i whatched so many vids on the topic, but in the end i have to make it my on way, and now i am having problems with the arrows, but your video made things clear to me, thank vou.
a very nice video, reminds me of your talking primitive section, super useful! I noticed those modern archery are full of it as soon as I made a bow and made arrows, you absolutely do not need a spine tester to make good arrows and be accurate! ok, maybe when doing olympic archery but that means shooting a nickel at 70m, hunting is much more forgiving.
I use 7 ft. Hexagonal Northern White Ash Darts with my Red Oak Atlatl. As a "big game" harvester it is very effective on whitetail deer out to about 70-80 ft. with homemade work hardened mild steel two bladed single bevel broadheads. It takes lots of practice to develop proficiency with an Atlatl. I mostly hunt with a Korean Style Sinew Backed Bamboo Horse Bow and Bamboo Arrows with homemade mild steel single bevel points.
Thanks Ryan, this is a good point -it is really good to have the string favour the side of the bow you shoot from. I don't have river cane where I come from, so I make hard wood arrows. I recently realised that there was no need for the ancient archer to have a spine tester. A spine tester is the child of modern logic -reference everything to a measuring system with agreed units. This is not primitive thinking where we reference things to the things they need to fit with. If you shoot promising shafts unfletched, you can see how well matched they are to the bow. If they are too heavy and get pushed off by the side of the bow, then you can just sand them till they fly straight. A very small amount of sanding can make a large change in an arrow's spine and the weight of the set (if you weigh them to check) will still probably all be within 20 or so grains. This is particularly so if you choose the wood of one species and cut defect free shafts from places with similar growing conditions.
yup for sure. several different ways to get around the spining issue. I used to start heavy on arrows and essentially scrape them down to tune them similar to what you are describing
I’d love to see another video on the techniques you use for your traditional tattoos. It’s looking like your sleeve is beginning to be way more filled out.
Great vids!.....I Started building self bows 10 years ago......never stoped. Its addictive.up here in Quebec.... i use hickory to back rock maple (board bows) .now i'm more focused on sinew backed hophornbeam ( split handle).hhb is hte best wood around here.safest wood for beginers. (It holds itself together IF it fails. You havent hunt till you hunt with a stick bow.Best hunting experience even if you don t shoot anything.
thanks to you I have been experimenting with every thing around me frome arrow heads all the way to the atlatel all have been fails though but thats the fun of it and now i am thinking obout becoming a architect in the future so thank you so much and keep up the amazing work.
One of the super powers of compound/modern gear is that while you can underspine, you can't overspine. This makes life hugely easier since you can choose your arrows for some other feature than spine. The classic example being line cutting. The reason this works is because with full centershot, shoot through rests, and releases you can get perfect arrow flight. One famous 3D archer shot an 80# bow and 24xx, or 26xx arrows, with points ranging from 60 grains to 360 grains, depending on the targets, whether he was shooting Elk, or winning at Vegas. The missing factor with stick bows is that we shoot fingers, usually Mediterranean. This causes the flip off the fingers that causes a lot of the issues around spine, even on center shot bows. But primitive shooters often shot a pinch shot which is a lot like a release aid. I can't shoot enough weight that way, but it is an interesting aspect of how things worked in the past.
If the nock portion of the arrow is bulbous (it flares out a bit like pincers or is a bit conical), and is covered with a leather strip, it hugely improves grip, allowing for a much heavier bow, although it is still easier to shoot it in the instinctive draw and relese method than "careful aiming" of modern times.
Found an atlatl point in VA. It's split down the middle but someone in the past continued to use the broken surface as polishing tool 😎👌 also you taught me almost everything I know about knapping and points 💪😁
At least with my juniper bows, they will launch a big heavy arrow just as fast as a light one. The difference is the penatration . My personal experience is, every so often a bow matches with a certain arrow like magic. Just something about the behavior of both comes together.
Love it. Ive been getting into arrow building and I was doing research and was getting overwelmed with the science of it. I personally think they are trying too hard. But to each their own.
Great poscast brother. I could talk for hours on primitive archery and kaienkehaka (mohawk people) specifically. Amazing videos and I love what you do. 100% Kaienkehaka and I approve. When do you harvest river cane? What time of year for you works? Thanks Gil
Hey Ryan, in your cave or wherever you sit during you videos by the rock wall, you should make some sort of paint or use the blood of a kill to make cave paintings!
I believe in the Traditional Bowyer's Bible series there was a mention of using the top of a limb vs. the bottom of a limb, the top would have better tension strength and the bottom would have better compression.
Very interesting. So what do you have concerning arrow flight, points, etc. I used to shoot a flat bow but finally gave up because I couldn't get good arrow flight, specifically when I added 2 blade broadheads.
While stringing my bow just before I go shooting I automatically check that my bow string is more on my favoured side of the bow. Until now I never really thought about it but yes: people in former times might just like you told have done it automatically because it was making things easier.
Excellent info as always! Very enlightening on bow and arrow relationships. It’s kid of awesome how you have come full circle! What length do you recommend for shafts?Are you plugging the ends with split cane still?
thanks very much man. I still plug the ends of the cane, but i typically just use a smaller piece of cane nowadays. I am currently shooting 31 inch arrows, but i bounce around in length from season to season
You ve got a new subscriber!! What about shooting bare shaft /no feathers, but with some tip? Won't this add to the overall weight/penetration of the arrow? Is the paradox more intence when you add weight on the tip of the bow? And what is the relation between those 3 factors. : Stiffnes- Weight on the tip-length. Great video! Thanks!
I took a chance on your concept and bought some cedar shafts spined at #72-#75. They shoot just fine out of my #56 Ben Pearson, and get a lot deeper penetration than the shafts that are recommended by the spine tables. Like I said on one of your other videos, I'm going to start a fire in the back yard and burn the "Book of Archery Rules". Thanks.
Your logic works with any projectile. The greater its mass, the higher the penetration and shock to the target. Adore the string biasing comments about primitive bow hunting, and how it ultimately effects arrow flight characteristics, short or long distances.
Hey Ryan I have a crazy question, can you knap diamonds? I know they chip, so the thought popped in my head. Can't seem to find anyone else ever having that question on the web so I figured I would try to ask you.
That was seriously interesting! Thank you! I imagine that the heavier arrows are quieter too? I understand that some hunter gatherers use extra long arrows--quite a bit longer than draw length. Is there any advantage to that? Have you explored the subject? Thanks, again!
Can someone explain how is spine weight determined… ryan is talking about 75-80 lbs spine but all spine measurements i know about are in the hundreds( 350, 400, 600).
I truly enjoy your videos and group. I went through a couple $300 worth of flint and for some reason I still cannot make a point. Is there any advice that you have? And yes I have watched your videos for beginners.
I use carbon arrows at a rating of 340 on a longbow that's about 48# @ 28", and they fly straight and hit very hard with a heavier arrow head. There is not really any archery stores in my city, and the only stores near me that sell stuff are HEAVILY catered towards modern "archery". I usually end up making my own arrows from oak dowels from lowes lol
Ryan, I am weird, I nock my arrows on the right hand side and aim with both eyes open. The pull and draw is so much more fluid. Idk when or why folks started doing it the other way, always seemed the proper way to me.
I would think so, if you take a look at modern sports bows for example, they have the so called "window" built into the handle, with just a tiny arrowrest, which almost eliminates the archers paradox. So the handle thing is absolutely viable to my mind as long as you keep the structural integrity of the bow in mind, in regards of the middle being strong enough. I'm not sure about the nock proposal, but it should work as well. Then again I have no idea, it's gotta be tested. Hope it could help. To summarize: Yeah, viable ideas, but difficult to pull off without affecting the structural integrity of the bow itself.
@@huntprimitive9918 Thanks for taking the time to reply and for just being awesome, Ryan. I like a bit of bend in the handle so I was thinking of very slightly steaming the tips in one direction and putting just a wee bend in the other direction at the handle, see what happens I guess.
Oh k I been watching your videos for a long while now. There is one thing that I like to see you do and that's talk about PVC bows I been hearing about them a lot would you mind comparing a PVC bow to a bow that you made really like to see that video.
Hi Ryan. Vary interesting video. Iv notest many native eastern woodland bows in Steve Allely and Jim Hamm's book (Encyclopedia of Native American Bows, Arrows & Quivers Volume1) with one or sometimes two side nocks. the nocks of some these bows are on opposite sides of each bow tip. this means the string will bisect somewhere along a likely unstraight primitively made bow. I wander if a primitive bow made like this contributes two what you are explaining in regards to the string favoring a certain side of a bow?
When cave men started out it was after an ice age,......the proper woods didn't exist yet. They were light woods so arrows were bigger around and longer to gain penetration. There's a really great book wrote about it with all the supporting archeological facts. Written by 5 Archeologists,......if you want to learn to make bows the name of that book is The Bow Builders Book,... from 3 Rivers archery its from Europe its the finest book I own. Big and full of illustrations about all shaft materials used and dates of use,..... points and types of points used. Different bows and how to build them.
I'd like a tip regarding this information on board bows. Since they are usually perfectly straight, is there anything specifically to do on them to get the same effect?
Seeing you shoot an arrow with a completely flat tip made me wonder. Do you ever sharpen the tips of completely wood arrows? I once saw a guy recommend using a pencil sharpener to put a point on all wood arrows in a pinch. I imaging this would be better for arrows made from sticks rather than cane stalks. I know they would not penetrate like one with a proper stone point and that you are well past needing to do things like this, But I would appreciate you talking about wooden points.
yeah i have, but the blunt points work really well on small game with termination of velocity. you can certainly sharpen the ends of them if it fits your need
Okay,, so I too built a spine tester.. very accurate, based on 26" span... Your arrow appears to be longer than 26". When you're spining your arrows, are you measuring the fat, stiff end, or the smaller diam, weaker end? Because, one can have all the mass and spine in the world, up front and play with spine and paradox, further back towards the nock, can't they? Please educate me!.. This isn't a challenge; I really am asking for insight and knowledge. Thanks!,, Ken
I measure from the weak end (the nock end). But even in using the thin side, I am still 80+ spine in most cases on these. The need for paradox is eliminated by the offsetting of the string of the bow.
Many of the Native American bows would have string nocks cut only on one side of the bow. I wonder if this was to accomplish string alignment along one side of the bow rather than in the center?
we sell rock on our website, but the kits themselves don't come with any rock just because everyone wants different amounts of rock or different types so it's easier just to let everyone choose the rock they want with it
No such thing. Just flip it over. Left handed becomes right handed or right handed becomes left handed. Or shoot from the opposite side of the bow. It's easy enough with a few minor adjustments and quite historical as well. That is unless you have an moulded fibreglass bow.
Good stuff, I learned many things as always and some food for thought! I have been wondering about spine in regards to primitive arrows. I have been shooting Ocean Spray shoot shafts. Many of them are way over spine for my bow. The bow has a decent shelf and the string runs center. I can see the arrows in paradox and sticking nock left in the target. This makes me concerned that if I was to hit game with an arrow not flying true then it wouldn’t get good penetration because it is losing energy on the nock end from flying “sideways” I have been glueing pistol brass on the ends of my arrows for stump shooting as the brass weighs(75gr) the same as some stone points that I have. Protects the arrows a bit and give a pretty accurate idea of flight with something on the end. And the shaft doesn’t need to be tapered which give options later if I want to put stone points on. I can shape the end how best to suit the head. Just an idea I came up with😁 I feel like instead of having any kind of spine tester in primitive times, they would have just been making a ton of arrows, so there was always a variety to try on all the bows. Then the archer would have a good sense which worked and could reference back to the nicest flying arrows for picking more shoots/cane. I am building and shooting a couple a week for the practice of working the hardwood shoot and seeing which arrows might be candidates for hunting arrows.
Also, align the arrow with the target, not the bow. Think like a crossbow, were the bolt is aligned straight to the target and the bow is slightly canted. Do the same with an arrow, align it the target, canting the bow slightly, apply a bit of khatra and you will be able to shoot very stiff arrows indeed.
i think ishi's style is likely more a result of being right handed but left dominant, but i have no proof of that. I also think that many people simply grew up shooting a certain way because that's what felt good as a kid and once they trained their muscles, it was just as natural as any other way. I personally wouldn't re-invent my shooting style over string slap
why not show the final group, also you need to mention you bow arm movement and torque applied that are the actual things making you arrow shoot straight.
Can you make a video on how to make like primitive tools from materials just from your backyard? My backyard is extremely large but empty. I have not a single tree :( and I love these videos and I love making things primitive.
In one of your other videos I was watching, you mentioned your website. I went to go check out your bows... I hate to sound rude but I'm gonna. Those sticks are waaaaay overpriced. I have made a few bows myself and I know for a fact that those bows don't cost that much. Factoring in supplies, tools and time, I could see maybe $400-$450. They are really nice bows but I think For that kind of money, people would be better off buying a compound bow or better yet, a crossbow.
Your value of time has no bearing on my success. When you get to my level in building these sticks, branding and running a business with over head, lmk. We have more work than we can truly handle and more work comes in everyday, so my prices are just right per my business and the future growth of my company. It is funny though that you value hand crafted items lower than machine manufactured goods like compounds and crossbows..lol That's why you'd never make it in this business. You probably make about $10 an hour... it would be pretty funny if someone came into your work and said you should only be making $5 an hour... but here's a life lesson for you.. I will never apologize for being successful at what I have worked very hard to accomplish. If you want to be successful in life, work on solving your own finances before instructing others.
@@huntprimitive9918 Don't talk like you know who I am dude. You have no clue who I am or what I am about. How would you know if I have my own business or not? Go back to carving sticks and doing your caveman shit. Oh and "more that you can handle"? Yea the whole 2 bows you had for sale. Yea more than you can handle...
@@antisocialpunk We stock very few bows because we are so covered up with custom orders ...if you knew anything about business, you would realize that. ....and I do know a lot about you from the words you speak... you know absolutely nothing, but you are welcome to go thinking whatever you would like about my business. I am the one killing it... not you... you're just another loser/hater.. you just keep go keep on being a loser, and I will keep on building business.
@@huntprimitive9918 Wow, you do know so much about me! It's like you're my brother or something. I don't have to prove myself to a nobody on RUclips like you , but I am an accomplished and awarded artist. I have won several awards for my oil and acrylic paintings, I have a very successful tattoo & art studio, and an overall happy life. You see, Some people can't handle the truth and when they hear it, they begin to project their own insecurities onto others. Like you are doing now every time I say that your channel is terrible. Instead of taking criticisms as they are and moving on with your life, you attack me because what I say, you know is true. Oh, I also have a minor in human behavior psychology. My major was in Art & Art studies. I chose these two fields as they can compliment each other in my line of work. I went to CSU in case you were wondering. Now, before you make yourself look even more ridiculous, please go back to your terrible videos and your sticks & rocks.
You have killed innocent animals for your videos. I'll never visit your channel again and I'll also try to show these cruelty to everyone. you should have to try non-livings but you didn't. You'll pay for this very soon.
Another great informative and educational video from Hunt Primitive. I have learned more about archeology and anthropology from Ryan Gill than from all my college professors. I believe he deserves an honorary degree. I’m serious. This is great stuff. Living archaeology and anthropology.
thank you very much. greatly appreciated!
I agree, though it is a risk to assume an engineering mindset in the past. We didn't achieve that in the West until very recently. Sure, saying they experienced certain changes just by trial and error seems reasonable enough. Though, I was super interested in Japanese Carpentry back in the '80s. It was typical even at that late a time, in that technical a society, for nobody to have any explanations for anything. Partly, this is in their religious approach, if you overlay their focus on the essence of things, on tools; partly it was protecting trade secrets, arguably; It was also in the nature of apprenticeships that you start sweeping the floor, and X years later you are fully formed, and will repeat the same tasks for the rest of your life.
if you look at amazonian tribes or some african tribes they also used javelin sized arrows to hunt without shooting ridiculous draw weights. much less fps but lots of weight.
definitely true. spoiler alert, I have a video coming out on that soon as well, i just havent made that public yet
I believe its the kashtuk bushman who shoot similar long arrows. Whats amazing is they shoot nockless arrows with FLAT bowstrings and a pinch grip.
Hey man I just wanted to say thanks. I don't know if you benefit much from doing these videos but I sure appreciate them. Super interesting and relaxing. I am going to take this up as a small hobby. I promise I'll buy my first flint knapping set from your establishment! Thanks again!
Overspined arrows are my favorites, they last much longer than the right spinned arrows, I currently experiment with huge thick hazel arrows weighing about 55 - 70 grams, they look like typical old siberian arrows.
I never had any issues with overspined arrows until I started reading archery websites. There's no way English Longbow archers had standard weight bows or matched arrows; maybe accuracy wasn't really that important though?
Ryan your archery skills are off the chart crazy good ! I love how you roll with your bow and arrow build skills! Keep making these videos!😁
Hi Ryan great video and very informative, thanks. I think prehistoric humans would have learnt at an early age the way different weight arrows flew . From my own childhood, playing with bows and arrows simply sticks cut from the hedge , I found the heavier ones stuck in better which led me to try all sorts ( including some that resembled small logs to no avail lol ) of thickness and length of shafts . Oh reminiscing of the good old carefree days growing up on the farm lol. Great video again, take care.
yes for sure! thank you very much
I Just build my first primitive bow this morning, i whatched so many vids on the topic, but in the end i have to make it my on way, and now i am having problems with the arrows, but your video made things clear to me, thank vou.
Awesome video. Also thank you for the Knapping kit Ryan! It looks and feels great. I hope to make lots of points and blades with it!
best of luck knapping. I hope you make some great ones
a very nice video, reminds me of your talking primitive section, super useful!
I noticed those modern archery are full of it as soon as I made a bow and made arrows, you absolutely do not need a spine tester to make good arrows and be accurate!
ok, maybe when doing olympic archery but that means shooting a nickel at 70m, hunting is much more forgiving.
Found you on tiktok most definitely going to be watching your content it's awesome
thanks very much for following along. I haven't done a tiktok in a while and i really need to!
I use 7 ft. Hexagonal Northern White Ash Darts with my Red Oak Atlatl. As a "big game" harvester it is very effective on whitetail deer out to about 70-80 ft. with homemade work hardened mild steel two bladed single bevel broadheads. It takes lots of practice to develop proficiency with an Atlatl. I mostly hunt with a Korean Style Sinew Backed Bamboo Horse Bow and Bamboo Arrows with homemade mild steel single bevel points.
Thanks Ryan, this is a good point -it is really good to have the string favour the side of the bow you shoot from. I don't have river cane where I come from, so I make hard wood arrows. I recently realised that there was no need for the ancient archer to have a spine tester. A spine tester is the child of modern logic -reference everything to a measuring system with agreed units. This is not primitive thinking where we reference things to the things they need to fit with. If you shoot promising shafts unfletched, you can see how well matched they are to the bow. If they are too heavy and get pushed off by the side of the bow, then you can just sand them till they fly straight. A very small amount of sanding can make a large change in an arrow's spine and the weight of the set (if you weigh them to check) will still probably all be within 20 or so grains. This is particularly so if you choose the wood of one species and cut defect free shafts from places with similar growing conditions.
yup for sure. several different ways to get around the spining issue. I used to start heavy on arrows and essentially scrape them down to tune them similar to what you are describing
Hey Ryan, love your videos. I hope everything is going good for you!
Awesome video! Keep them coming!
I’d love to see another video on the techniques you use for your traditional tattoos. It’s looking like your sleeve is beginning to be way more filled out.
Excellent video again! Keep up the good job!!!
thank you very much
Great vids!.....I Started building self bows 10 years ago......never stoped. Its addictive.up here in Quebec.... i use hickory to back rock maple (board bows) .now i'm more focused on sinew backed hophornbeam ( split handle).hhb is hte best wood around here.safest wood for beginers. (It holds itself together IF it fails.
You havent hunt till you hunt with a stick bow.Best hunting experience even if you don t shoot anything.
thanks to you I have been experimenting with every thing around me frome arrow heads all the way to the atlatel all have been fails though but thats the fun of it and now i am thinking obout becoming a architect in the future so thank you so much and keep up the amazing work.
One of the super powers of compound/modern gear is that while you can underspine, you can't overspine. This makes life hugely easier since you can choose your arrows for some other feature than spine. The classic example being line cutting. The reason this works is because with full centershot, shoot through rests, and releases you can get perfect arrow flight.
One famous 3D archer shot an 80# bow and 24xx, or 26xx arrows, with points ranging from 60 grains to 360 grains, depending on the targets, whether he was shooting Elk, or winning at Vegas.
The missing factor with stick bows is that we shoot fingers, usually Mediterranean. This causes the flip off the fingers that causes a lot of the issues around spine, even on center shot bows. But primitive shooters often shot a pinch shot which is a lot like a release aid. I can't shoot enough weight that way, but it is an interesting aspect of how things worked in the past.
If the nock portion of the arrow is bulbous (it flares out a bit like pincers or is a bit conical), and is covered with a leather strip, it hugely improves grip, allowing for a much heavier bow, although it is still easier to shoot it in the instinctive draw and relese method than "careful aiming" of modern times.
Love your vids man I made three bow's and you got me into it! Not great but I only started a few months ago but yeah
excellent, very glad to hear that! thanks for following along
@@huntprimitive9918 the difference between a boy with a stick and a old man with a stick is a life time of KNOWLEDGE
Don't forget kathra. Flicking the bow out of the way a bit makes a huge difference in canceling paradox, allowing for heavier spined arrows as well.
Found an atlatl point in VA. It's split down the middle but someone in the past continued to use the broken surface as polishing tool 😎👌 also you taught me almost everything I know about knapping and points 💪😁
Thank you for a very informative video. True knowledge gained through experience.
At least with my juniper bows, they will launch a big heavy arrow just as fast as a light one. The difference is the penatration .
My personal experience is, every so often a bow matches with a certain arrow like magic. Just something about the behavior of both comes together.
You should go out on a primitve hog hunt with deermeetfordinner or bluegabe from Florida ✌🏻
Great information!! Thank you so much
You are so welcome!
Love it. Ive been getting into arrow building and I was doing research and was getting overwelmed with the science of it. I personally think they are trying too hard. But to each their own.
Hey Ryan! it’s keoni, I don’t know if you remember me but I’m happy that you’re doing good on RUclips! Keep up the work!
Great poscast brother. I could talk for hours on primitive archery and kaienkehaka (mohawk people) specifically. Amazing videos and I love what you do. 100% Kaienkehaka and I approve. When do you harvest river cane? What time of year for you works? Thanks Gil
Good stuff man 😎👍💯🔥🏹
Hey Ryan, in your cave or wherever you sit during you videos by the rock wall, you should make some sort of paint or use the blood of a kill to make cave paintings!
ive thought about it..
The Cherokee’s always used the top of the tree as the top of the bow according Al Herrin.
That was always the reckoning with the English war bows too .
I believe in the Traditional Bowyer's Bible series there was a mention of using the top of a limb vs. the bottom of a limb, the top would have better tension strength and the bottom would have better compression.
Very interesting. So what do you have concerning arrow flight, points, etc. I used to shoot a flat bow but finally gave up because I couldn't get good arrow flight, specifically when I added 2 blade broadheads.
While stringing my bow just before I go shooting I automatically check that my bow string is more on my favoured side of the bow. Until now I never really thought about it but yes: people in former times might just like you told have done it automatically because it was making things easier.
Excellent info as always! Very enlightening on bow and arrow relationships. It’s kid of awesome how you have come full circle! What length do you recommend for shafts?Are you plugging the ends with split cane still?
thanks very much man. I still plug the ends of the cane, but i typically just use a smaller piece of cane nowadays. I am currently shooting 31 inch arrows, but i bounce around in length from season to season
You ve got a new subscriber!! What about shooting bare shaft /no feathers, but with some tip? Won't this add to the overall weight/penetration of the arrow? Is the paradox more intence when you add weight on the tip of the bow? And what is the relation between those 3 factors. : Stiffnes- Weight on the tip-length. Great video! Thanks!
Good information I have found 4 vane with twist straightens arrow flight faster
I took a chance on your concept and bought some cedar shafts spined at #72-#75. They shoot just fine out of my #56 Ben Pearson, and get a lot deeper penetration than the shafts that are recommended by the spine tables. Like I said on one of your other videos, I'm going to start a fire in the back yard and burn the "Book of Archery Rules". Thanks.
haha excellent. very glad to hear it worked well for you
@@huntprimitive9918 A closer look at those shafts show they're spined at #75-#78. Thanks for your reply and hope you're having a bumper year.
Your logic works with any projectile. The greater its mass, the higher the penetration and shock to the target. Adore the string biasing comments about primitive bow hunting, and how it ultimately effects arrow flight characteristics, short or long distances.
Hey Ryan I have a crazy question, can you knap diamonds? I know they chip, so the thought popped in my head. Can't seem to find anyone else ever having that question on the web so I figured I would try to ask you.
That was seriously interesting! Thank you!
I imagine that the heavier arrows are quieter too?
I understand that some hunter gatherers use extra long arrows--quite a bit longer than draw length. Is there any advantage to that? Have you explored the subject?
Thanks, again!
Can someone explain how is spine weight determined… ryan is talking about 75-80 lbs spine but all spine measurements i know about are in the hundreds( 350, 400, 600).
Excellent video, thank you! It answered a lot of questions that I thought on recently. Whoch of your bow models are you using in this video?
thanks very much. This is my new "HuntPrimitive" model. with real sinew string and built as more of a contextual stone age style bow
@@huntprimitive9918 can u use shellac and then polyurethane on snake skins
Would it be possible to get in contact with you? I have a few questions that I don't know how to get answers to
Good luck my guy I learned so much
I truly enjoy your videos and group. I went through a couple $300 worth of flint and for some reason I still cannot make a point. Is there any advice that you have? And yes I have watched your videos for beginners.
awesome!!!
I use carbon arrows at a rating of 340 on a longbow that's about 48# @ 28", and they fly straight and hit very hard with a heavier arrow head. There is not really any archery stores in my city, and the only stores near me that sell stuff are HEAVILY catered towards modern "archery". I usually end up making my own arrows from oak dowels from lowes lol
Thank you for de video.
Isn´t this disalignment between tips and handle causing, perhaps, some torke?.
I wish a good year for you... and everybody.
nope, it doesn't torque anything. Solid wood bows are actually much resistant to torque than modern fiberglass bows.
Super explanation of how this must have evolved. You need to be awarded a medal for excellence in experimental archaeology.
much appreciated, thank you !
Quick question how do you practice shooting do you use a blunt tip or just sharpened tip or do you make a stone /bone arrow head ??
Ryan, I am weird, I nock my arrows on the right hand side and aim with both eyes open. The pull and draw is so much more fluid. Idk when or why folks started doing it the other way, always seemed the proper way to me.
Almost every bow culture had a different way to draw their bows. There really is no “wrong” way.
That's my question. Is this why Ishi shoots like you? And it would take away string slapping my arm from bow string being off center.
Are you left eye dominant?
I have always preferred the heavier spined arrows.
Hey Ryan, can the string line be manipulated by cutting the nocks asymmetrically or by cutting the handle area thinner on the arrow side?
I would think so, if you take a look at modern sports bows for example, they have the so called "window" built into the handle, with just a tiny arrowrest, which almost eliminates the archers paradox. So the handle thing is absolutely viable to my mind as long as you keep the structural integrity of the bow in mind, in regards of the middle being strong enough. I'm not sure about the nock proposal, but it should work as well. Then again I have no idea, it's gotta be tested. Hope it could help. To summarize: Yeah, viable ideas, but difficult to pull off without affecting the structural integrity of the bow itself.
Yes that can be done as well, just be careful not to cause too much grain run out around the grip of the bow if it bends
@@huntprimitive9918 Thanks for taking the time to reply and for just being awesome, Ryan. I like a bit of bend in the handle so I was thinking of very slightly steaming the tips in one direction and putting just a wee bend in the other direction at the handle, see what happens I guess.
Oh k I been watching your videos for a long while now. There is one thing that I like to see you do and that's talk about PVC bows I been hearing about them a lot would you mind comparing a PVC bow to a bow that you made really like to see that video.
Damn useful information for people like me who build things primitive not for fun but because of shortage of resources
If you did a primitive hunting class in tampa or somwhere close i would be the 1st one there
Hi Ryan. Vary interesting video. Iv notest many native eastern woodland bows in Steve Allely and Jim Hamm's book (Encyclopedia of Native American Bows, Arrows & Quivers Volume1) with one or sometimes two side nocks. the nocks of some these bows are on opposite sides of each bow tip. this means the string will bisect somewhere along a likely unstraight primitively made bow. I wander if a primitive bow made like this contributes two what you are explaining in regards to the string favoring a certain side of a bow?
interesting thoughts for sure and it may contribute some to that
So if you’re shooting a center or close to it recurve, over spine would work better?
Yes, the closer to center shot, the stiffer spine you can get away with.
nice bro👍 .. some pepole think that bow are twis... 🤦♂️ now thy know... arrow shoot more center.... 🏹😁
When cave men started out it was after an ice age,......the proper woods didn't exist yet.
They were light woods so arrows were bigger around and longer to gain penetration.
There's a really great book wrote about it with all the supporting archeological facts.
Written by 5 Archeologists,......if you want to learn to make bows the name of that book is
The Bow Builders Book,... from 3 Rivers archery its from Europe its the finest book I own.
Big and full of illustrations about all shaft materials used and dates of use,.....
points and types of points used.
Different bows and how to build them.
Yeah don't buy anything from Ryan. Lol sorry Ryan it just sounded like an ad.
Wouldn’t this also apply to modern center shot bows? And/or bows cut past center?
I'd like a tip regarding this information on board bows. Since they are usually perfectly straight, is there anything specifically to do on them to get the same effect?
Weaken one side of a limb
Along a edge and you will see it twist out
Seeing you shoot an arrow with a completely flat tip made me wonder. Do you ever sharpen the tips of completely wood arrows? I once saw a guy recommend using a pencil sharpener to put a point on all wood arrows in a pinch. I imaging this would be better for arrows made from sticks rather than cane stalks. I know they would not penetrate like one with a proper stone point and that you are well past needing to do things like this, But I would appreciate you talking about wooden points.
yeah i have, but the blunt points work really well on small game with termination of velocity. you can certainly sharpen the ends of them if it fits your need
Again.........NICE!!!!!!!
thanks very much
Okay,, so I too built a spine tester.. very accurate, based on 26" span... Your arrow appears to be longer than 26".
When you're spining your arrows, are you measuring the fat, stiff end, or the smaller diam, weaker end?
Because, one can have all the mass and spine in the world, up front and play with spine and paradox, further back towards the nock, can't they?
Please educate me!.. This isn't a challenge; I really am asking for insight and knowledge.
Thanks!,, Ken
I measure from the weak end (the nock end). But even in using the thin side, I am still 80+ spine in most cases on these. The need for paradox is eliminated by the offsetting of the string of the bow.
Modern ranch fairy special!
hey Mr. Gill when's the stone age survival video coming out?
Many of the Native American bows would have string nocks cut only on one side of the bow. I wonder if this was to accomplish string alignment along one side of the bow rather than in the center?
Yes, that can definitely help with string alignment as well, whether that was the intended idea for it or not
Do you experience string slap on bows with the string favoring the left side? Since the string would be closer to your arm...
yes a little bit. I wear an arm guard for extensive practice, but it's not much of a big deal while hunting.
@@huntprimitive9918 thanks
I SUCK at archery. Love it but I simply cannot hit the broad side of a barn.
I'm going to have to try this. Looks like a good idea to me.
Hey I’m considering buying your flint knapping starter kit does it come with any rock?
we sell rock on our website, but the kits themselves don't come with any rock just because everyone wants different amounts of rock or different types so it's easier just to let everyone choose the rock they want with it
@@huntprimitive9918 oh ok thank you. What kind do you recommend I’m newer and I only have around 75 dollars
Is it hard to find a primitive or recurve bow that’s left handed and I’m sure it is expensive.
Make it
No such thing. Just flip it over. Left handed becomes right handed or right handed becomes left handed. Or shoot from the opposite side of the bow. It's easy enough with a few minor adjustments and quite historical as well. That is unless you have an moulded fibreglass bow.
Ryan, I was wondering how long are your arrows?
Good stuff, I learned many things as always and some food for thought!
I have been wondering about spine in regards to primitive arrows. I have been shooting Ocean Spray shoot shafts. Many of them are way over spine for my bow. The bow has a decent shelf and the string runs center. I can see the arrows in paradox and sticking nock left in the target. This makes me concerned that if I was to hit game with an arrow not flying true then it wouldn’t get good penetration because it is losing energy on the nock end from flying “sideways”
I have been glueing pistol brass on the ends of my arrows for stump shooting as the brass weighs(75gr) the same as some stone points that I have. Protects the arrows a bit and give a pretty accurate idea of flight with something on the end. And the shaft doesn’t need to be tapered which give options later if I want to put stone points on. I can shape the end how best to suit the head. Just an idea I came up with😁
I feel like instead of having any kind of spine tester in primitive times, they would have just been making a ton of arrows, so there was always a variety to try on all the bows. Then the archer would have a good sense which worked and could reference back to the nicest flying arrows for picking more shoots/cane. I am building and shooting a couple a week for the practice of working the hardwood shoot and seeing which arrows might be candidates for hunting arrows.
Also, align the arrow with the target, not the bow. Think like a crossbow, were the bolt is aligned straight to the target and the bow is slightly canted. Do the same with an arrow, align it the target, canting the bow slightly, apply a bit of khatra and you will be able to shoot very stiff arrows indeed.
Maybe shooting with the string off to one side.is that the reason why they shoot like Ishi ?so it doesn't slap your arm?
i think ishi's style is likely more a result of being right handed but left dominant, but i have no proof of that. I also think that many people simply grew up shooting a certain way because that's what felt good as a kid and once they trained their muscles, it was just as natural as any other way. I personally wouldn't re-invent my shooting style over string slap
Big flier on that last shot. Primitive bows and arrows are close range tools.
why not show the final group, also you need to mention you bow arm movement and torque applied that are the actual things making you arrow shoot straight.
Can you make a video on how to make like primitive tools from materials just from your backyard? My backyard is extremely large but empty. I have not a single tree :( and I love these videos and I love making things primitive.
Are you going for stone or metal tools?
@@ReasonAboveEverything i think stone would be a better option but metal would also be interesting for a project
Check out paleo planet if you love things primitive, you might be able to get good advice there.
How Long are the arrows that you are shooting?
currently about 31", but I bounce around between 36 and 28 inches, and everywhere in between
You make very nice arrows over all Ryan.
thank you very much!
Hey Ryan, do you eat raw meat?
Do you have a brother named Daniel
Where can I buy your shirt? (blieve uou know witch 1) 😂
Whats the name of the plants u used scientific names are easier to look up
Arundinaria gigantea
@@huntprimitive9918 huh i never realized i could use that plant for arrows ive seen it 100 times and never gave mutch thought to it thank you
Ignore my last comment on your freshet video!
How long do your bow last before breaking
indefinitely. It's not very common for them to break at all
@@huntprimitive9918 ok thanks
@@huntprimitive9918 how much are they
You think you could shoot a bow at night with duel tube NODs? That would be an epic video, primitive archery, stone point, night vision hog hunt.
Build a spear and hunt with it not an Atlatl tho
You should try to get on a series called alone and if you win you will get $500,000$
In one of your other videos I was watching, you mentioned your website. I went to go check out your bows... I hate to sound rude but I'm gonna. Those sticks are waaaaay overpriced. I have made a few bows myself and I know for a fact that those bows don't cost that much. Factoring in supplies, tools and time, I could see maybe $400-$450. They are really nice bows but I think For that kind of money, people would be better off buying a compound bow or better yet, a crossbow.
Your value of time has no bearing on my success. When you get to my level in building these sticks, branding and running a business with over head, lmk. We have more work than we can truly handle and more work comes in everyday, so my prices are just right per my business and the future growth of my company. It is funny though that you value hand crafted items lower than machine manufactured goods like compounds and crossbows..lol That's why you'd never make it in this business. You probably make about $10 an hour... it would be pretty funny if someone came into your work and said you should only be making $5 an hour... but here's a life lesson for you.. I will never apologize for being successful at what I have worked very hard to accomplish. If you want to be successful in life, work on solving your own finances before instructing others.
@@huntprimitive9918 Don't talk like you know who I am dude. You have no clue who I am or what I am about. How would you know if I have my own business or not? Go back to carving sticks and doing your caveman shit.
Oh and "more that you can handle"? Yea the whole 2 bows you had for sale. Yea more than you can handle...
@@antisocialpunk We stock very few bows because we are so covered up with custom orders ...if you knew anything about business, you would realize that. ....and I do know a lot about you from the words you speak... you know absolutely nothing, but you are welcome to go thinking whatever you would like about my business. I am the one killing it... not you... you're just another loser/hater.. you just keep go keep on being a loser, and I will keep on building business.
@@huntprimitive9918 Wow, you do know so much about me! It's like you're my brother or something. I don't have to prove myself to a nobody on RUclips like you , but I am an accomplished and awarded artist. I have won several awards for my oil and acrylic paintings, I have a very successful tattoo & art studio, and an overall happy life.
You see, Some people can't handle the truth and when they hear it, they begin to project their own insecurities onto others. Like you are doing now every time I say that your channel is terrible. Instead of taking criticisms as they are and moving on with your life, you attack me because what I say, you know is true. Oh, I also have a minor in human behavior psychology. My major was in Art & Art studies. I chose these two fields as they can compliment each other in my line of work. I went to CSU in case you were wondering.
Now, before you make yourself look even more ridiculous, please go back to your terrible videos and your sticks & rocks.
You have killed innocent animals for your videos. I'll never visit your channel again and I'll also try to show these cruelty to everyone. you should have to try non-livings but you didn't. You'll pay for this very soon.
Go microwave your humanely acquired hotdogs 😂
I mean he eats the animals he kills... if you eat meat, but you're against hunting, you're a hypocrite.