Commenter Question: Why do 16th century breastplates get so pointy?
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2023
- One of you asked a great question on one of my previous videos, so I answered it. If you have any more questions please leave them in the comments section!
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"Even if the museum curator is too cowardly to display it with a codpiece" :D
But to make sure I'm understanding it right, the pointed breastplate came about sometime in the 1500s with Henry VIII and then Elizabeth I (to use English monarchs to gauge timeline), intended to present a more curved surface to deflect bullets while the older breastplate+plackart combination presented a more flat surface that gave the bullet more room to dig into on a frontal hit. The V-shape extended a bit past the 'wasp waist' of breastplate+plackart+faulds, and the faulds were adapted to cover the area now uncovered by the V-shaped breastplate?
Yes
Personally I really like this style of breastplate. I find the very late horseman's armour (think London lobsters), particularly lovely.
Really late armour, from the 1630's on is often quite flat and straight along the central crease, the pointed prow like brestplates of the 1560's are gone, and the peascod is reduced to a small nub.
In there place is an articulated lower part on some of the better armours.
Large peascod's that are prow like with a pronounced point are a common feature on black and white style Almain Rivet armours.
I've never really liked this kind of breastplate, if you want angular shapes to help stop penetration of projectiles, I think that the Kasten-brust style would both do the job, and look better. Great video!
Edit: I know that Kasten-brust was mainly used in the 15th Century, I just personally like the shape more.
This kind is much stronger structurally
I do think the kastenbrust is a cool look, but for the most part the angles are wrong for the kind of deflection that you need. As a style it was very localised and didn't last especially long, which suggests it may not have been the most effective.
@@ZacharyEvans It does look cool though! But yeah I agree that it probably would not be as effective for projectile deflection as the peascod
@ponod The thing with Peascod cuirasses is the “chin” shape of the Peasod also provides a lot of strength to the metal without having to make a more complex form like what many Kastenbrust cuirasses had. Armourers of the time were pleased to find that the stylistic choice, similar to the prior fluting style, aided from a functional standpoint. It even allowed cheaper munition armours for footmen to be fairly strong compared to prior designs earlier in the century.
Angled armour before tanks makes sense, given that a mounted knight was kind of like tank in their day. Sort of? That's what popped into my head, anyways!
The analogy is very close
Why did armor become pointy? For the extra +2 deflection AC of course.
Did the fashion of the breastplate follow the doublet, or vice versa?
It's hard to say for sure. The defective angles makes sense to come from the breastplate, but the corset like V shape could come from either.
What are the consequences in terms of mobility? To my exceedingly inexpert eye, it looks like it would limit your ability to bend substantially more than other styles, and that point looks like it could cause some serious ouchies should you be struck low on the breastplate or folded over by an impact or fall.
I've never worn one for personal comparison, but part of why the prow looks to long is that the sides are high on the waist. The sides being on the natural waist is the single most important thing for mobility, but I can't say for sure exactly the effect of the peascod from experience.
@@ZacharyEvans Thanks for the explanation. I didn't _think_ that people of the time were stupid enough for a substantial number of them to choose fashion over the ability to bend at the waist, but my faith in human intelligence has taken enough of a thrashing over the last few years that it wouldn't have surprised me if they had. 😆
@irrelevantfish1978 Regular peascod wearer here. They don’t *really* mess with movement, since the majority of the bottom edge rests at your natural stomach. The dip or “chin” slides in between your legs when you sit, so it really isn’t that bad. I honestly prefer that set up with a very reduced/no fauld and tassets making up the rest of the hip defence, since it feels like my legs have a lot less metal to have to push against when walking or running. Elizabethan armours tend to sometimes be a tad bit restrictive in places for the sake of fashionable proportions, but I’ve never really found myself desperate for movement I couldn’t get (tho mind you, using a pike is a lot less dexterity and movement-reliant than, say, a Swiss halberd from the 1490s). I’d sooner give contemporary pauldrons or sabatons an iffy glance than the peascod, since those feel a lot more movement-effecting.
Weren’t they mimicking the arming doublets of the time?
It all works in multiple directions. In general, the Elizabethan men's fashion, including armour, is more traditionally feminine than the styles that went before it.
@@ZacharyEvans ah makes sense
can you recommend someone for good quality plate legs? i'm fond of gothic and fluted styles
Art of Steel from Ukraine would be my top recommended workshop
@@ZacharyEvans thank you, i can't afford a full set but i've really wanted the legs for a while as a set of cool metal pants
Mimiking Elisabeth? When it´s all over europe? Dosn´t make sense, does it?
It very much can be both. There are multiple styles that work. The English just so happen to go with a style that mimicked the queen's style
@@ZacharyEvans I think most fashion would be influenced by the spanish or french court.I can´t see any specific differences between continental and english style of that time, but maybe I am just ignorant.
Not at all. All of Europe was referencing each other, and putting their own spin on it. We often look for one cause, instead of considering all of the many contributing factors.
Amazing, all that manliness and they end up copying a wummin, bunch of Jessie's
What about a narrow waist AND a giant codpiece? It would be so far ahead of its time.
A narrow waist is manly though, fit men have narrower waist.