Natalia Grace #19 - (Dirty old man) - Therapist Reacts
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- Опубликовано: 1 май 2024
- Dr. Kirk Honda reacts to the documentary about Natalia Grace. Includes clips from The Curious Case of Natalia Grace.
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Why did they even interview that old lady? She has no first hand accounts just what other people told her.
Also feels exploitative of an elderly person.
I think it demonstrates the further harm and manipulation that the Barnetts caused. That might not be the intention, but I think it helps us conceptualize just how awful this story is and how abuse trickles down in thus way.
I thought she was a neighbor in the complex so she witnessed some of the behaviors
@@AC-qb2mkBut literally everything she's saying is "So and so told me that Natalia told them." She was not a witness to any of these events she's just regurgitating what other people maybe told her.
@FishareFriendsNotFood972 Yeah I feel like she might have been one of the only ones at from the complex they could coax into doing an interview for the show.
The only thing the first season of the documentary doesn’t do is play circus music and call her a carnie
She was a child😢 the adults around her are the sick ones 😮they come up with these stories to hide their, obviously dysfunctional thoughts,behaviours, and extremely unfit parenting to a child with disabilities and no one else...so these grownups made up the historical storyline
I think they believed she was 22, but just because they believed her to be of age does not mean that they didn't owe her some level of care to make sure she was okay. Natalia was obviously unwell. Natalia's physical disabilities should have alerted them to being more thoughtful if they thought she was also mentally ill. If I had a neighbor like Natalia, and her parents had isolated her with her physical impairments and supposed mental illness, I would have called adult protective services to investigate the situation and make sure that Natalia had the care she needed. Adult protective services exists for cases like this one. I wish the producers of this documentary took the time to talk about what people can do if we see someone struggling like Natalia. We all have an obligation to show enough care to pick up a phone and call for help even if we are unwilling to help ourselves.
We are going the wrong way in society in terms of attachment at infant stage. In Australia we get 16 weeks maternity leave. I was fortunate to stay home until baby was 10 months old and i was happy to go to work but now I feel so so guilty that it wasnt longer. When I see young babies at her daycare my heart just hurts. She was too young 😢 Our society is doing it wrong...
Canada you get one year.
Under Communism they got 5 years option.
.
natalia’s behavior towards her neighbors reminds me a lot of the kid who lived next door to me growing up. my family moved to the neighborhood when i was starting kindergarten, and this kid was the same age as me, but he was “homeschooled.” i put that in quotes because he barely received any education and his parents were totally inattentive. he had two teenage siblings who paid a little bit more attention to him than the parents, but not by much. he’d knock on our door at any time of day/night wanting to hang out because he didn’t have any structure or even a set bedtime- there were no lesson plans or routines to his “homeschooling” at all. he lacked boundaries, had a hard time cooperating/compromising while we played, and didn’t have great emotional regulation- he would usually end up whining/yelling and storming off if a game didn’t go his way. as a kid i brushed him off as annoying and would find excuses to avoid playing with him, but looking back the poor kid was totally neglected and probably bored. the story of natalia waiting by the other family’s house until they came back from the kids’ soccer game was totally something that kid used to do.
We have a 7.5 year old girl who has some attachment issues. I can only imagine what would happen if we put her in this place.
She doesn’t understand boundaries. She completely lays her body on people to try to “hug” or “cuddle”. As an adult, we have to step in and help her to respect the other person’s boundaries.
Expecting her to understand these things is outrageous.
Sexual experimentation in childhood is VERY common behavior and often evokes strong over reactions and guilting by parental figures that just make everything worse. (Of course, other factors come into play when the child is interacting with someone much older or younger). If you can treat sexual curiosity in your child more neutrally, like how you could conceptualize their curiosity about trains or dolphins, it better primes parents to not attach a lot of emotionalism and distortion to the issue. Often the very strong shaming reactions children get from parents transfers to them having shame around sex in adulthood, which is not ideal. If Natalia was indeed an 8 year old child, playing with a child her own age, there's nothing inherently sinister or even especially unusual about grabbing/curiosity towards the parts of another child. What she needed was a trusted ADULT she could ask questions to and learn healthy boundaries from.
I do think the adoptive parents were lying about her because you can tell it simply from her face maturing now and the older pictures in comparison show it's clear she was a kid back then and the adoptive parents were very dodgy people. This poor girl didn't deserve any of this.
12:50 I honestly hate this "documentary". The whole watch I kept the mindset that Natalie was a child (proven true way too late in the series). I have been so pissed off that this was a neglected child. Constantly searching for some kind of connection. And the adults around her were just horrible. They chose to view her as an adult with such thready reasoning.
Dr. Honda mentioned internet access, but from the brief video of the apartments i didn't even see a tv, much less a computer. I also didn't see any toys, books or art supplies! She should have been in school, instead she was left without anything to fill her time, on top of everything else they did to her
One of the neighbors, the soccer people, mentioned her texting them
Sexual curiosity and sexual play _amongst peers_ isn’t evil, and isn’t necessarily a sign of grooming or abuse.
A child propositioning an adult sexually _is,_ however, rather a bad sign and you’d ought to get that child evaluated, physically and mentally, as soon as possible.
No she didn't have access to the Internet they even would erase contacts in her phone.
Dr. Honda, can you please watch "The Contestant" it is so disturbing! How could the producer get away with what he did? Why didn't Nasubi leave? So much to unpack, it needs an expert.
I don't understand the neighbors that lived around Natalia. If Natalia had been my neighbor I would have seen her as a vulnerable person with disabilities and I would have wondered why her family had isolated her without care which she obviously needed. I have a mentally ill niece that is nearly 40 and needs someone to pay her bills and organize her life to some degree. She is a vulnerable person. I cannot fathom rejecting her needs in this way. If Natalia made me feel unsafe for some reason I would have called adult protective services so they could assess if her needs were being met. Because if she was behaving the way they suggest, along with her mobility issues, I would have thought her parents were neglecting her needs. Just because someone is supposedly 22 (I am going by the age the neighbors believed Natalia to be) does not mean that they are able to live alone and care for themselves. I wish more of us considered that there are a significant number of people that are neurodivergent or mentally ill that need help, and not all "weird" behavior is dangerous.
Giving the documentary people the benefit of the doubt (and there is doubt) it seems like they presented the story to us in the same way it was presented to them... by Michael. Hearing the story from Michael and digging to uncover truths from there must have felt, to them, a lot like it felt for us to watch the first season of the documentary: curious, shocking, confusing, melodramatic, disorienting, tiresome at times, full of twists even when you think there can be no more twists, horrifying, and ultimately infuriating.
With the older woman ( who I can't stand) but anyway a lot of here complaints against her are heresay si she heard it from others talking in the neighborhood. Also with her grandson. Yes it would be weird if a 22 leaved over the arm of a chair and that is probably why he felt weird but an 8 year old well they do that all the time. Just think of you in a chair and an 8 yeard old comes and leans on the armchair to talk to you and they aren't still. Much of this behavior wouldn't have seemed odd to these people if they knew she was 8.
I also feel that those neighbors were ridiculous not to realize she was a child. The school did and made a report and the Mann's knew immediately and got her help. So it kinda upsets me that they couldn't even see she was a young child.
What about hypersexuality & autism? I keep seeing that its a symptom or could be an autistic trait/ experience I'm not sure what to call it. In that case could it be something that came without something traumatic happening before hand?
Hi Dr Honda, just watched a new apology video that I would love to hear your thoughts on. It's from "Watcher" (Ryan Bergara, Shane Madej, Steven Lim)
In case it hasn't been proposed to you a million times already...
Okay, watching your video now!🙃
Oh I saw that, I didn’t really understand the whole thing. I’ve watched Shane and Ryan’s content on buzzfeed and watched their watcher ghost videos and their ghost type stories they did over zoom 😆 but I haven’t watched much of the other watcher content. Anyway what I didn’t understand is that they just decided to leave RUclips and make their own platform as they thought it would make more money or something 🤔 maybe it will I don’t really know how stuff works and they do have a big fan base, but to expect everyone to follow them over to their new platform and pay for it and fully stop RUclips just seems like a really odd idea. Surely it would cost them more as they would have a whole platform to run 🤷🏻♀️ anyway I saw the apology where they said they will still upload to youtube but videos will be a month later, but it just seemed odd and I was confused by it all. I know they have patreon, I don’t know what they put on there or if it’s just early access, but I feel like if they told the community on youtube the problems they were having and wanting to make sure they pay everyone involved fairly and that they were considering the new platform I bet more people would have joined patreon. People seem more angry as they didn’t seem to involve the community in the decision which I feel like was a bad move 🤷🏻♀️
Im.a content creator and work with other channels. Being youtube is something else. I cant even list all of the issues of having a platform you don't own or control. If being a content creator is your only job then you better have a great business plan because there are no promises. They have great production and a staff to pay, plus their own ambitions as creative funny guys. They may want to grow beyond youtube? But they should have slowly moved the audience over not just all at once.
0:53 The "bless her heart" 😅
I can totally see a situation where she had preconceived opinions on Natalie. Or just went on viewpoints presented. But there are plenty of times grown ups have their own stigmas and unjustly dislike gender presenting boys or girls. I just can see her seeing that red flag of abuse behavior and not understanding it comes from trauma and lack of understanding.
2:52 Damn right, it is deplorable.
Were you about to say that it's 'rare' for adoptive parents to SA their adopted kids? Please please do not perpetuate myths like this- this is how adoptive parents get away with abusing their kids because society has this positive bias towards adoptive parents. And it's the biological parents that are usually painted as the abusers.
And both can be true. Kids can have been abused in the bio family/ foster care/ orphanages etc and also abused by the adoptive parents.
I'm an adoptee, and I'm part of the online adoptee community so I've met a lot of other adoptees, it's not uncommon for adoptees to be abused or molested. It is not rare! I've heard some horror stories. Especially in the evangelical/ Christian adoption community.
There was a case a while back of an American peadophile who adopted a girl from an orphanage in Russia, poor girl had already been through trauma- and he committed the most horrific abuse against her and distributed videos of that abuse online.
And in regards to the comments you made at the beginning, I would say the way the media reacted to this story is rooted in disability and adoptee prejudice. The Barnettes were enabled by the media to slander and further psychologically abuse Natalia, I hope she sues all the outlets who interviewed the adopters. They disclosed personal health issues, discussed her supposed 'pubic hair growth' and 'periods' (bear in mind that Natalia was a minor when they did this).
I completely agree with what you said about this whole story being rooted in ableism and prejudice. Its a common perpetuated idea that people with dwarfism are 'creepy' and are commonly used in horror films to further this fear, as are many other visibly disabled people/people with mental illnesses. This story as well is a commonly told myth, about someone with dwarfism pretending to be a child to inact psychopathic harm on others. It's so gross but so blatant to me that this plays a massive factor into this story.
I agree with what you're saying about adoptees and foster/adopted families. I think non adoptees have a much sunnier perspective on adoption as a whole than is realistic
@@elzzz2000 Agreed. The fact the media gave them a platform and believed their story, without doing any kind of due diligence or allowing Natalia to have a voice, speaks volumes about the way society views adoptive parents. Poor Natalia was treated so badly by the media, and it still being exploited IMO.
I cannot imagine the trauma she is living with.
@@elzzz2000 And I feel that the Barnetts adopted a disabled child for 'saviour points' and then couldn't be bothered to take care of her so invented this ridiculous story.
I think they took the story from that disgusting 'Orphan' movie.
Seeing little Natalia pulling the garbage bin by herself, broke my heart. The Barnetts are monsters. I can't understand why they aren't in jail.
@@leopardprints Full agree with everything you're saying. I've been taking the time recently to learn much more about the flaws of adoption. I work for a charity as an advocate for care leavers, and honestly I'm slightly ashamed to admit that I was someone who didn't really understand the deep flaws of the adoption system. Its only through listening to the voices of adoptees like yourself, that I've begun to become more educated on the topic as a whole. I completely agree with the 'saviour complex'. Heartbreaking that Natalia went through so much at such a young age. Hopefully, change will come.
@@elzzz2000 The money spent on 'adoption fees' (which is basically a legal form of child trafficking- these international adoption agencies make a ton of money from these kids), could have been spent on treating Natalia's disabilities in her own country, and supporting her biological mother to keep her. Keeping kids out of orphanages should be about family reunification in their own country (unless there is abuse), not taking them to the other side of the world.
International adoption is extremely corrupt and profits are put above child welfare.
The way private adoption is operated in America is insane. There is no monitoring or proper checks. Poor Natalia just fell through the cracks. Society failed her too. This whole case makes me so angry.
You could sell t-shirts that say "and it's the right fucking thing to do"
With the elderly woman, it makes me sad that in the face of evidence contradicting her belief, she couldn’t handle the cognitive dissonance and chose to ignore the evidence in front of her to imo protect herself from feeling guilt and embarrassment. I would find it more way more embarrassing to deny reality, but that’s just me. Watching her reaction had me cringing.
Totally with you.. painful and sad to watch her wheels turning and then make the choice to double down. It’s powerful to see something like that play out I think because we’re all vulnerable to it. Elliot Aronson’s experiments on these phenomena are really elegant. I think he’s still running around, even
I think Kirk made a good point about how they intentionally create rage bait where possible when they make things like this (exploitation p*rn with zero ethics). They wouldn't present her with all the data the viewer has at that point, probably just play the tape.
But tbh it sure works on me - listening to her is incredibly enraging.
Canada has 18 months mat leave very reduced income but somethings
I have heard other stories about adoptions absolutely ruining people's otherwise quiet, comfortable lives.
Perhaps some of these adoptions should come with a return policy just in case things go horribly wrong.
Yes, if a birth child has problems, you have to deal with them but if an adopted child turns out to be a nightmare, why should your life be ruined trying to deal with the ongoing issues? Especially if those issues are not disclosed by the adoption agency.
Because that's a human being who doesn't deserve to be told they are unlovable because someone didn't get the idea of a child they had pictured in their head. They are just as much your child as one born of you, to suggest otherwise is a deeply hurtful sentiment. Childre are not pets which you get to give away once they stop fitting your lifestyle. f you only want to be a parent if it's convenient and not too much bother, then don't have kids. It's that simple. It's amazing how many people in this world font deserve children.
I’ve mostly heard about adoption absolutely ruining the life of the innocent child who had the all-too-common misfortune of being adopted by narcissists
The wife in this story was too wrapped up in her own “image”. If she were to return the child into care,she would have had to admit that she failed at something and that would ruin the book she had written saying how great she was at making her autistic son a genius and touting her ability to do the same with other children. So she started a massive smear campaign against a child instead.
She wanted a kid to make her look good.
She’s a monster. Monsters shouldn’t be allowed to adopt.
@@shewho333 Nailed it !
Because they could have chosen to foster and adopt later if they wanted to but they chose to go blindly into a huge legal and emotional decision that will affect their lives and the lives of a child. It's like getting married and deciding nope nevermind two seconds later, which happens and is fine when it involves emotionally stable consenting adults. Even in that situation there's a long legal process to divorce or annul. It should be at least as hard for adults who decide to adopt blindly to "give back" a kid they promised to take care of for life.