I think I’ve looked at most of the you tube videos on this topic and I have to say the Oscar goes to Toys4Life C5. Thanks for the documentary and answering questions.
I love your videos. I never knew you could cut a bolt like that and repair threads. I have the same job coming to the shop soon. Now I feel confident about the repair. Thanks again.
Had no idea the torque for the crank bolt was so high! And, for it to have such a short thread shaft. Wow. What brand of balancer did you decide on? Cost? Does it have to be pinned? Thx for all the hard work and great filmography…great detail on the camera!
The new balancer is from Powerbond. The tool is from Summit - LS harmonic balancer installer - works like a charm and priced right! Thanks for the comment!
Thanks for your great videos. You have the harmonic balancer in the oven at 150 degrees. I guess it's Fahrenheit. It's not that high a temperature. Is due to the rubber in the harmonic balancer you do not have a higher temperature?
It is fahrenheit. Yes, I'm sure it gets hotter when it's actually in the vehicle but to be safe and to remove any possibility of cooking the rubber within the balancer I just go to 150f. In the past that's worked very well
We'll see if that leaks. There's not a ton of overlap, but I think an oil pan gasket in this situation if needed what also warrant engine mounts while we're in there. The thing is once you get close to 200,000 miles, you start digging in you I have to be careful because there's always something additional it seems like you could fix it or replace.
When cleaning up the inside crank threads consider magnetizing your thread chaser or tap. Makes it more likely the chips will stick to the chaser and removed instead of getting pushed into the crank.
The shop manual said something about having the crank recessed 2.4 x 4.48 mm into the balancer bore. Doe the install tool handle this? It would seem that once everything is tightened the recess will be gone so what’s the sense.? Is my thinking right?
@Toys4Life C5 Would you recommend making a chaser from a new GM crank bolt, even though it hasn't been fully torqued down yet (if that matters)? I'd rather not risk using the old one given it's wear/age. Since I'm going with the ARP bolt instead, I've got a fresh OEM one handy. Also, I planned on buying a chaser tool online, but the only thing i can find in the M16x2 size are taps and I'm not sure I want to be that aggressive just yet.. Really appreciate your videos sir. Thank you!!
If the old one looks to be in extremely good shape, use that. Otherwise I don't see any issues using a new bolt other than throwing away the cost of new bolt.
I certainly learned why replacing my harmonic balancer (last week, on my C5 convertible) cost so much! (Had it done by the best Corvette shop in the Mid-Atlantic region, and I feel it was worth the cost.) But my question for you is -- after all that work to get into there, why didn't you install an ATI Super Damper?
After reading the forums, the power bond seems to be extremely reliable. I spoke to A&A, and they told me they had great success with it as well. That was good enough for me. Now let me ask you why do I need the ATI super damper. What's it going to do for me specifically that the power bonds not. Not a sarcastic question, I am not a balancer expert I know it dampens vibrations but, it depends on where the car is I think most of the time as far as RPMs go. Most of the time my car is at normal RPMs, then there is the occasional hit. If it was a race car that was constantly cruising around at oval track at 5000 RPM I probably would have a dampener tuned for a different RPM. But, I haven't open mind so let me know (:-)
Went with a Power Bond balancer, well known to be reliable - even for mild supercharged applications. Worst thing you can do is put the GM stock replacement balancer on. No need to go any more expensive or elaborate than this.
Have you ever installed an oil pump while you're in there? Seems tricky to find good install videos or instructions...even on the Corvette Forum. I've got a 2000 C5 convertible with 133K miles and I'm beginning the harmonic balancer job and figured with such high mileage, I may as well do the timing chain, sprocket/gear, and oil pump.
It's a slippery slope, you can always do more when you're in there all the way up to replacing the whole motor. I struggle with where you draw the line, and keep in mind too that sometimes new parts are defective, imagine putting in an oil pump only to find the new one fails!!
i realize this is an older vid but i’m hoping u will still reply. what size push pin did u use on the puller? i see there’s 4 different ones i was just wondering how deep it needs to go
Where did you buy the water pump, and remember the part number? Also would you still pin the crank pulley if the threads are in great shape. Going on a mostly stock c5 . Also do you recommend any thing else to be replaced while doing the crank pulley and seal? No racing on this car. Thanks
Napa for the water pump, check your pulleys and idlers and tensioners, new belts if they're sketchy and no, if you're not going to race it at all probably don't need to pin it. Good luck!
My car had the HB was replaced by the previous owner and it would always leak. Today I replaced the seal and when I took it off I noticed there was a little damage on the inside. I’m assuming the shop has damaged it when pulling the seal off. Would this cause the leak? Also… they never rtv’d the key way on the summit balancer 🤦♂️
Yeah if you put a big gouge or the seal presses into the timing cover you probably want to RTV that before you put the seal in and I'm not familiar with the summit balancer but if the keyway goes all the way through the entire length of the balance or then yeah it would need to definitely be our rtv'd.
Great video. Especially on a Z06 - how did the HB issue possible slip through QC and long term testing. HB should have a key and drift or pin into crankshaft. GM builds junk.
The stock HB's take don't fail immediately - so they slipped through QC. That having been said, they seem to fail too soon which leads me to believe (my opinion) that their supplier has a subpar elastomer or something in the process of bonding the two parts.
ARP bolt part # is in the description. Give A&A corvette a call - they should be able to sell you a quality pinning kit. Good luck with the project Tim!
Hi, quick question. I've replaced my HB with ATI and installed a new seal as well but after about a month oil started leaking around the seal and goes down the oil pan. Did I missed something? Thanks
Other than using a good quality seal and putting a little grease on the balancer hub prior to installation I cannot think of anything. I would clean everything good and run it to make certain the balancer seal is where the oil is coming from. Also make sure your bolt is tight - it is not unheard of for them to somehow not be torqued properly and back off. Sorry you are having a problem!
Don't I need to hold the crank to keep from turning? Someone makes a tool that goes in the starter bolt holes. Has "teeth" to hold engine when you're cranking the H B tight? Advise?
@@Toys4Life possibly…. It wouldn’t pull the balancer in quite all the way to line up properly, the OE bolt actually did! Anyways, we did it without removing the steering rack but still had to disconnect the lines as the power steering cooler was still in the way. 2.5 hour job in the shop!
The question is because I turned down buying a 2005 c6 Corvette because of this issue the question is once you get this work done how long will it last and will you have the same problem in about 3 to 4 years or less or more anyone out there has the answer let me know thank you
I hate the balancer bolt. Some bolts are torque to yield, some aftermarket bolts have totally different instructions, its a mess. Im an aviation tech. Im considering just undertorquing it and giving it some safety wire coupled with a pinned crank.
I hear you and agree 100% - confusing info out there. Going forward I will likely just use the GM TTY bolt. It is cheap enough and you don't hear of stock LS balancers falling off all of the time.
Had it been replaced and somebody improperly torque the bolt or was that as it came from GM? I would think if GM let it leave improperly torque it would fail within the original warranty?
Shame on GM for leaving out the key and the keyway that was standard on all Chevy & American V-8 engines. How much did they save by doing this? The OEM harmonic balancers are two piece where the rubber between the two parts are known to fail. It looks like your replacement is one piece.
Probably made it quicker to install the dampner on the crank at the factory since it didn't have to be clocked to the key before cranking the bolt down...
Thanks for all your videos. You do a great job saving guys like me correcting problems like this because GM planned obsolescence. Melted down parking lights being used as driving lights is a sign of GM being thoughtless, or greedy. My 1999 C5 has a Procharger and I quickly found the stock clutch could not hold the added power. Swapped the LS7 assembly and hydraulics. Keep up the good work!👍👍😃
Yes, unlike Gen 1 small block Chevys, gen 3s don't have any keyways nor is there any timing marks on the balancer so there's no reason in bringing it to top dead center.
![FNAF vs TF2 - Episode 2 [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5b3V2-VLb0/mqdefault.jpg)
This video is a KEEPER for my favorites!!
Thanks for that, I appreciate it and am glad you enjoyed it!
Agreed.
This channel is quickly becoming one of my favorites for GM and Chevrolet knowledge. (:
Been waiting for this video. part 1 was excellent. You can't put a price what he is teaching us !
Appreciate the comment - thank you!!
@@Toys4Life Well deserved !!
Yes. This knowledge will make owning a C5 Corvette a lot more fun.
Your knowledge and attention to detail is fantastic. Enjoy and learn from all of your videos. Thanks
Glad you like them - Thanks for the comment!!
I think I’ve looked at most of the you tube videos on this topic and I have to say the Oscar goes to Toys4Life C5. Thanks for the documentary and answering questions.
Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated!
I love your videos. I never knew you could cut a bolt like that and repair threads. I have the same job coming to the shop soon. Now I feel confident about the repair. Thanks again.
Appreciate the kind words, certainly a thread chaser would have been ideal, but this works in a pinch!
Lots of great tips in there. Thanks for the video.
Glad it was helpful!
Had no idea the torque for the crank bolt was so high! And, for it to have such a short thread shaft. Wow. What brand of balancer did you decide on? Cost? Does it have to be pinned? Thx for all the hard work and great filmography…great detail on the camera!
Thank you! Powerbond balancers seem to be the best stock replacement based upon years of review. PB1117N about $95 at Summit.
@@Toys4Life Not bad! Thot they’d cost much more. Thx again.
The video is awesome it’s defiantly helping me with mine as it’s my 1st time changing the balancer.
Glad you liked it!!
You always make it look easy. Thanks for another great video
Appreciate the comment, thank you!!
Excellent video. What is that special tool you are using to first seat the new Summit dampener?
The new balancer is from Powerbond. The tool is from Summit - LS harmonic balancer installer - works like a charm and priced right! Thanks for the comment!
Thanks for your great videos. You have the harmonic balancer in the oven at 150 degrees. I guess it's Fahrenheit. It's not that high a temperature. Is due to the rubber in the harmonic balancer you do not have a higher temperature?
It is fahrenheit. Yes, I'm sure it gets hotter when it's actually in the vehicle but to be safe and to remove any possibility of cooking the rubber within the balancer I just go to 150f. In the past that's worked very well
Great video! Any thought to doing an oil pan gasket too? Had to replace the one in my C6Z. Started leaking when the vehicle was about 10yrs old.
Good video👍👍👍
We'll see if that leaks. There's not a ton of overlap, but I think an oil pan gasket in this situation if needed what also warrant engine mounts while we're in there. The thing is once you get close to 200,000 miles, you start digging in you I have to be careful because there's always something additional it seems like you could fix it or replace.
Thank you, appreciate it sir!
When cleaning up the inside crank threads consider magnetizing your thread chaser or tap. Makes it more likely the chips will stick to the chaser and removed instead of getting pushed into the crank.
Most use grease, I will have to look into magnetizing the thread/chase, interesting idea! Thank you!!
The shop manual said something about having the crank recessed 2.4 x 4.48 mm into the balancer bore. Doe the install tool handle this? It would seem that once everything is tightened the recess will be gone so what’s the sense.? Is my thinking right?
Yes, once you pull the balancer on and then start twerking down the bolt it'll fully seat provided there's nothing defective about your new balancer.
Good video, thanks for sharing.
Great info!
Well done and informative videos.
Glad you like them!
Thank you so much for making this video! Very good video! Thumbs up from me
Glad you liked it!
@Toys4Life C5 Would you recommend making a chaser from a new GM crank bolt, even though it hasn't been fully torqued down yet (if that matters)? I'd rather not risk using the old one given it's wear/age. Since I'm going with the ARP bolt instead, I've got a fresh OEM one handy.
Also, I planned on buying a chaser tool online, but the only thing i can find in the M16x2 size are taps and I'm not sure I want to be that aggressive just yet..
Really appreciate your videos sir. Thank you!!
If the old one looks to be in extremely good shape, use that. Otherwise I don't see any issues using a new bolt other than throwing away the cost of new bolt.
I certainly learned why replacing my harmonic balancer (last week, on my C5 convertible) cost so much! (Had it done by the best Corvette shop in the Mid-Atlantic region, and I feel it was worth the cost.) But my question for you is -- after all that work to get into there, why didn't you install an ATI Super Damper?
After reading the forums, the power bond seems to be extremely reliable. I spoke to A&A, and they told me they had great success with it as well. That was good enough for me. Now let me ask you why do I need the ATI super damper. What's it going to do for me specifically that the power bonds not. Not a sarcastic question, I am not a balancer expert I know it dampens vibrations but, it depends on where the car is I think most of the time as far as RPMs go. Most of the time my car is at normal RPMs, then there is the occasional hit. If it was a race car that was constantly cruising around at oval track at 5000 RPM I probably would have a dampener tuned for a different RPM. But, I haven't open mind so let me know (:-)
Great videos thank you
Great video! Is it require to put some sort of sealant on the crank pin?
Not required but not a bad idea (RTV)!
thank you
Why did you go back with the GM balancer & not upgrade to Summit 2501 or ATI super damper. Is your friend selling the vehicle after fixing this?
Went with a Power Bond balancer, well known to be reliable - even for mild supercharged applications. Worst thing you can do is put the GM stock replacement balancer on. No need to go any more expensive or elaborate than this.
Have you ever installed an oil pump while you're in there? Seems tricky to find good install videos or instructions...even on the Corvette Forum. I've got a 2000 C5 convertible with 133K miles and I'm beginning the harmonic balancer job and figured with such high mileage, I may as well do the timing chain, sprocket/gear, and oil pump.
It's a slippery slope, you can always do more when you're in there all the way up to replacing the whole motor. I struggle with where you draw the line, and keep in mind too that sometimes new parts are defective, imagine putting in an oil pump only to find the new one fails!!
i realize this is an older vid but i’m hoping u will still reply. what size push pin did u use on the puller? i see there’s 4 different ones i was just wondering how deep it needs to go
I recall you start with a short one and then you have to put a longer one in there good at the rest of the way off.
Jesus this is such an intense job wtheck
How do you know when to stop pressing the harmonic balancer on? How do you know where the depth should be?
You should see it pull on most of the way with the installer. Then when you do the final torque of the final bolt, it is fully seated.
@@Toys4Life I’m. Thank you. I wasn’t sure if it would bottom out and that’s the tell tell sign it’s on fully or there was another sign. Thanks again.
Where did you buy the water pump, and remember the part number? Also would you still pin the crank pulley if the threads are in great shape. Going on a mostly stock c5 . Also do you recommend any thing else to be replaced while doing the crank pulley and seal? No racing on this car. Thanks
Napa for the water pump, check your pulleys and idlers and tensioners, new belts if they're sketchy and no, if you're not going to race it at all probably don't need to pin it. Good luck!
thanks for the quick response. Lastly how about the timing cover gasket?
My car had the HB was replaced by the previous owner and it would always leak. Today I replaced the seal and when I took it off I noticed there was a little damage on the inside. I’m assuming the shop has damaged it when pulling the seal off. Would this cause the leak? Also… they never rtv’d the key way on the summit balancer 🤦♂️
Yeah if you put a big gouge or the seal presses into the timing cover you probably want to RTV that before you put the seal in and I'm not familiar with the summit balancer but if the keyway goes all the way through the entire length of the balance or then yeah it would need to definitely be our rtv'd.
How do you avoid messing up timing when removing a balancer? I want to also install a crankshaft seal protector plate on my BMW
No worries - replacing the balancer on the LS1 cannot mess up the timing. Cheers!
Great video. Especially on a Z06 - how did the HB issue possible slip through QC and long term testing. HB should have a key and drift or pin into crankshaft. GM builds junk.
The stock HB's take don't fail immediately - so they slipped through QC. That having been said, they seem to fail too soon which leads me to believe (my opinion) that their supplier has a subpar elastomer or something in the process of bonding the two parts.
Will the Dayco PB1117SS PowerBond Race Performance Harmonic Balancer fit my 2003 z06 with my 6 rib belt
YES
Do you regularly work on other peoples vehicles? I would love to have you do this job on my 2004 Z06
I wouldn't say regularly, but once in a while we work something out. What part of the country do you live in?
@@Toys4Life I am in West Virginia but not afraid of a drive. I just bought a 2004 Z06 in Texas an drove it back home this weekend
That sounds like a fun road trip!
I'm in the Midwest, wouldn't make any sense for harmonic balancer replacement.
@@Toys4Life that is true. It is always hard to find a trusted shop.
Do you have the part # for the ARP crank bolt and the tool used for drilling the pin hole ?
ARP bolt part # is in the description. Give A&A corvette a call - they should be able to sell you a quality pinning kit. Good luck with the project Tim!
@@Toys4Lifewhat socket did you use for the ARP bolt
Hi, quick question. I've replaced my HB with ATI and installed a new seal as well but after about a month oil started leaking around the seal and goes down the oil pan. Did I missed something? Thanks
Other than using a good quality seal and putting a little grease on the balancer hub prior to installation I cannot think of anything. I would clean everything good and run it to make certain the balancer seal is where the oil is coming from. Also make sure your bolt is tight - it is not unheard of for them to somehow not be torqued properly and back off. Sorry you are having a problem!
@@Toys4Life I've used OEM seal just fyi. So on the balancer hub do I put grease inside or outside the HB hub?
Smear a dab of grease on the outside of the hub that rides on the new seal.
@@Toys4Life Thanks again, I'll try that..
Don't I need to hold the crank to keep from turning? Someone makes a tool that goes in the starter bolt holes. Has "teeth" to hold engine when you're cranking the H B tight? Advise?
Summit makes a nice tool to hold the harmonic balancer, I'm pretty sure I showed it in the video take a peek. I did not take my starter out.
Where did you get the crank seal and are they the same for a 1998 C5 ?
Rock Auto. I'm not sure if they're the same, just look it up.
@@Toys4Life thank you, what tool did you use to remove the old seal ?
Just a normal run-of-the-mill seal puller. You can get them at harbor freight for like six bucks, it's a very simple tool, no need to pay more.
@@Toys4Life thanks man, been following your videos to a tee and got my crank bolt off yesterday, half way there now
My ARP bolt was a smidge shorter and that was a problem
Defective?
@@Toys4Life possibly…. It wouldn’t pull the balancer in quite all the way to line up properly, the OE bolt actually did! Anyways, we did it without removing the steering rack but still had to disconnect the lines as the power steering cooler was still in the way. 2.5 hour job in the shop!
The question is because I turned down buying a 2005 c6 Corvette because of this issue the question is once you get this work done how long will it last and will you have the same problem in about 3 to 4 years or less or more anyone out there has the answer let me know thank you
As long as you replace it with something other than a GM balancer, it should last a long time!
I hate the balancer bolt. Some bolts are torque to yield, some aftermarket bolts have totally different instructions, its a mess. Im an aviation tech. Im considering just undertorquing it and giving it some safety wire coupled with a pinned crank.
I hear you and agree 100% - confusing info out there. Going forward I will likely just use the GM TTY bolt. It is cheap enough and you don't hear of stock LS balancers falling off all of the time.
@@Toys4Life My friend ruined his crankshaft because the balancer lost friction and started spinning.
Had it been replaced and somebody improperly torque the bolt or was that as it came from GM? I would think if GM let it leave improperly torque it would fail within the original warranty?
There is a reason “Woodruff Keys” are softer than the parts they are aligning
So they shear? No woodruff keys here, we are going dowel pin!
Do you have an email I can send some pictures to?
Um, what kind of pictures are we talking about here?
@@Toys4Life off the balancer I removed from my car….
Shame on GM for leaving out the key and the keyway that was standard on all Chevy & American V-8 engines. How much did they save by doing this? The OEM harmonic balancers are two piece where the rubber between the two parts are known to fail. It looks like your replacement is one piece.
Probably made it quicker to install the dampner on the crank at the factory since it didn't have to be clocked to the key before cranking the bolt down...
Thanks for all your videos. You do a great job saving guys like me correcting problems like this because GM planned obsolescence. Melted down parking lights being used as driving lights is a sign of GM being thoughtless, or greedy. My 1999 C5 has a Procharger and I quickly found the stock clutch could not hold the added power. Swapped the LS7 assembly and hydraulics. Keep up the good work!👍👍😃
What a pain
Disbalanse you do
What?
Is there any particular reason you didn't ensure the motor was at TDC?
Yes, unlike Gen 1 small block Chevys, gen 3s don't have any keyways nor is there any timing marks on the balancer so there's no reason in bringing it to top dead center.
@Toys4Life C5
Ok awesome! Thank you so much for your reply! Love your content!