Dambisa Moyo: Is China the new idol for emerging economies?
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- The developed world holds up the ideals of capitalism, democracy and political rights for all. Those in emerging markets often don't have that luxury. In this powerful talk, economist Dambisa Moyo makes the case that the west can't afford to rest on its laurels and imagine others will blindly follow. Instead, a different model, embodied by China, is increasingly appealing. A call for open-minded political and economic cooperation in the name of transforming the world.
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Developed countries blaming developing countries for no democracy is like city people blaming rural people for no afternoon tea.
+robert501128 brilliant
👍
Nan Lei THAT IS NOT TRUE. YOU ARE TAKING THE BOOK PERSONAL NAN. EVERYONE SHOULD READ IT. IT IS AN INCREDIBLE ANALYSIS AND BREAKDOWN ABOUT ABOUT HOW COUNTRIES WILL BE DESPERATELY COMPETING FOR GLOBAL RESOURCES IN OUR LIFETIME: WATER. LAND. MINERALS. ENERGY.
MIX YOU ARE ALSO MISSING THE POINT MIX. SHE IS SAYING WHILE MANY PPL IN THE WEST ARE FIXATED ON DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS ... PPL IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES ARE FIXATED ON ECONOMIC RIGHTS. WHICH ONE IS THE ONE THAT PUTS FOOD ON THE TABLE AND PAYS THE BILLS ???
Haha
It doesn't matter whether the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice. - Deng Xiaoping
grateful cai Somehow sum up the Chinese's doctrine: be a realist, be smart. Don't care about the nature, as long as it can benefit us.
Nguyen Huy true, chinese top leader might be the most pragmatist in the world
CCP leaders' pragmatic philosophy is really a blessing to Chinese people.
+Jie Li $0.50
+Kale Girl I support the CCP. By CCP I mean a Chinese Civilization Party that demolishes Communism, which is the polar opposite of traditional Chinese values of a liberal and privatized marketplace.
But really, the Wumaodang thing is getting old. It is true China has them, and it was funny for a while to call people out as Wumaodang. But now it is like saying "QQ." It makes you look like a moron because you cannot contemplate anyone supporting something you don't support.
Take it is an advice, no harm intended. Enjoy your holidays.
thats a zambian lady,speaking facts that others wanna ignore even more..kudos dambisa moyo
Economic Growth is not directly associated with freedom and democracy. Citing China's growth Dambisa Moyo gives this wonderful speech. Whether you agree or not, you have to carefully listen to her thoughtful analysis. Highly recommended. Well done.
Historically, no country had the type of freedom and political freedom when they were developing. The UK wasn't fully democratic until post WWII, US wasn't until the 1960s, the democracies in Asia weren't so well into the 1990s.
Here, I would like to point out the Indian democratic system. Despite its tyrannical past, India has always been a vibrant democracy. To know more, kindly read Nobel Laureate Amartya Sen's "The Argumentative Indian"
***** Indian Economy is doing extremely fine. More than two decades, the growth rate is very consistent. It's not growing as fast as China. But China is very close-knit society. There is no openness like India. In the long term, India is the best bet compared to China.
Open School
I challenge you to go live in India for a year and then China for another year. Pick the most prosperous city or most underdeveloped city, it's up to you. Just make sure to either go best cities in both or go worst in both. Then come back and talk :)
Hint: been there done that over here, and you already know what I think.
walle1999 How ironic that the decline of the UK and USA began when they became fully democratic! Peter Schiff often quotes Jefferson who believed that democracies were unsustainable and his original model for the USA was a republic
My parents grew up in 1970s china when the country was still extremely poor. They would always tell me stories about the hardships they had to endure during their childhood. All the hard labour, malnutrition and such. My mom dropped out of fourth grade to work and provide for the family. I don't think they were thinking much about having the right to vote when they were starving pretty much everyday.
I don't know how many people would understand and agree with her idea, but I do appreciate that she could put her feet into others' shoes to think about and understand it.
I think every chinese students who have studied abroad were asked by foreigners questions like, "you cant critisize the government, or you'll get arrested right?""the water you drink in china is black and poisoned right?" Some may even go as far as" do you have internet access at all?" I wonder how many people have ever been to china or at least learned anything about china other than from western media before judging it and its people.
The Chinese government reserves the right to punish any form of disagreement.
Clean water and air are a growing problem in China.
The Chinese have internet access, but cannot access RUclips, Facebook, Wikipedia (in any language) or Twitter The Chinese government controls what can be accessed, and closes down Chinese web sites that say things the government strongly disapproves of.
fan mo, ask yourself
can you break the USA law because you think that freedom should much wider?
the answer is NO.
westerner can only brag about freedom ( permissible under their law)
westerner cant brag about freedom exist outside the law.
similarly, you can ask them " why cant they trade freely with iran?
because there are sanction on iran by their govt.
chinese people can trade freely with iran.
do they had courage to break USA sanction on iran? to demonstrate that they had freedom?
They may not judge China, they might just be curious and the best way to find the answer is to directly ask a Chinese person
shabi
Fan Mo my classmates ask me in your country do u have traffic light
Democracy will come to Chine. But it must be delivered by Chinese ppl ourselves, not forced or manipulated by outsiders.
She's said that plenty of times.
welll sun yat sen three principles included voting after education.......but it wont work with illiteracies ....voting is telling apart lies and truth but media are not telling the whole truth......voters need more than one higher education degree because extremists are voted by simple minded people.....like hitler was voted by one third of germans legally......or ukip or front national or other extremists.......you need university degress in order to recognize lying politicians and telling truth politicians especially in the media dominated western world......voting is thinking and thinking is provided and needed by education......maybe China should build more pku s and tsinghuas first before thinking about voting because not every american went to harvard and they are divided between hillary and donald......rednecks or liberals they do not know their choice either
it will not come because ppl dont want it.
is our democracy , not your
Impossible, because Chinese ppl are very satisfied with government today.
finally someone said the truth. Western media seems to enjoy critizing China but what they really need to do is learning from China.
So are things like slave labor,intellectual property theft and currency manipulation coming from China just myths?
Aaron Chan she said promote western values. Go to China and shovel coal by hand if you like
@@CrowdPleeza the things you heard may be true，but not happening everywhere in china。
you can not see the whole picture through media like cnn， bbc。
@CrowdPleeza
They come from the US and Europe too.
That's the point, Europeans have no right to throw stones over corruption, slave labor and theft; especially when they write foreign policies that allow them to continue this theft into modernity. AFRICOM and AOGA anyone?
It is not myths, it is a true propaganda against China, but it doesn't work.
She was right, 2016 Donald Trump is going for protectionism and critism of China instead of compete or corporate
@Gods Klanof What are you talking about?Americans pay all tariffs for TRUMP's decision. HE JUST WANT TO WIN THE FOLLOWING ELECTIONS.
Trump will tell you. are wrong again in 2024 president vote
very good talk but she didn't mention that current western wealth/economy/freedom/democracy was built on the slavery, subjugation and colonization of the rest of the world well until the mid 50s. maybe she did so by telling us a bit about her childhood in zambia.
its sad that this part of history is still kept quiet by so many people. Also, i don't see how white people think they have the right to criticize china given the history of their own countries.
nrew eel that is the truth they killed and looted the whole planet to create their wealth and they even have games to embed that I. I you g people s minds
I thought independence wasn't gained until the 60's? And even then western corporations still use slave labor and trade exploitation to steal resources.
Yes, history must not be forgotten. The US began with cheap labor. Slaves were shipped from Africa. Africans bought and sold against their will. Forced to labor without pay or human rights. Give me freedom or give me death has an entirely different meaning to these people.
everyone already knew that
Awesome talk. Her arguments are so robust that even though the conclusions may seem radical to Westerners, their merits appear undeniable.
首先，不得不悲观的认为只有少数西方人会认真看完这段视频。其中又只有少数能够相对客观的评价其中的内容。
其次，在人类文明史上，正是由于过去二三百年的西方殖民主义，世界格局才真正发生了翻天覆地的变化。中国也从中吸取了足够的教训：既不能闭关锁国骄傲自大，又要在开放国门的时候备有足够强大的军力来防止那些寄希望于武力解决一切问题的“来客”。
最后，每个人都做好自己，每个国家都focus the development of themselves first. 这样才能有上帝都不愿看到大同世界。
你的悲觀認為，我深切贊同。
由於講者不是白色皮膚，更不是美國出生，操完美的美式英語，所以這麼優秀的分享影片上架剛過第6個年頭了，卻僅得47萬多的觀看次數。估計YT統計會發現大多是非西方國家的高教育水平人士在看的，尤其是中國人和非洲人。
香港的暴民運動已持續半年了，嘴裏嚷嚷著要民主法治和自由的人大肆破壞社會和法治，和損害他人的人權自由，連原來用lip service支持他們的美國，該國國務卿蓬佩奧也促請香港“示威者”停止暴力行為與中央政府和平解決了，實在連西方社會都受不了這種愚民暴力。
一個不論教育水平、經濟發展還是人民的自由指數都位列世界頂尖的地方，會出現完全不合乎理性與和平的人民暴力破壞運動，可見一直以來西方社會灌輸全世界對其他意識型態和發展模式的偏見有多深刻，港人對中國內地無限想像出來的心理恐懼多栩栩如生。
香港人若有一半人能學著像這位女士般理性宏觀地理解中國和世界，就不至於淪落到手足相殘，同室操戈的田地了。
@@llOcOlll 作为来自大陆的海外华人，对香港的事也是非常痛心。最讽刺的是我这代大陆人的爱国情怀，反而是来自香港的歌曲/电视剧/小说，金庸笔下守襄阳的郭大侠，霍元甲歌里的"万里长城永不倒, 千里黄河水涛涛" 都触动了心底最深的感情。以前对中共八股文式的爱国教育和马克思主义哲学课程比较反感。现在在国外生活久了，发现老祖宗的阴阳转化思想和马克思的辩证唯物主义反而能帮助更客观看问题。西方人受宗教和个人主义文化影响，比较容易陷入非黑即白的思维。希望香港青年一代能早日走出叛逆的误区，重归中华文化。
@@cz8935
我很高興原本因中共對自己國家感到不理想的新一代人，在國外見識體驗過西方國家的那種自由民主後，反而可以更宏觀理解甚至心念祖國的特有價值。
中共的管治有很大進步空間，中國的政制有很多改革要做，中國的人文思想也是需要鑑古今思安危開闢屬於自己適合自己的哲學觀和價值信仰來支持民族團結和諧。
然而，像香港部分人那種期望中共倒台後，國家(或香港自己)就能走向民主自由富裕，是天真和幼稚的幻想。在反共家庭成長的我，越是多了解世界歷史和國際博弈遊戲後，越是驚覺對中國人威脅最大的不是中共，而是白人優越論的洗腦思潮。
中國不一定要由中共來主事，但必須由內部自主變革。借助外部那些西方自由民主國家的力量慘烈地革命成功後，只可能出現依靠西方的傀儡政權，國家必然被缷械成為唯命是從的附庸國，以美元體系和軍事霸權任其指點魚肉了。回顧二戰後蘇日先後威脅美國，最後落得的慘淡結果，中國人必須汲取教訓，小心翼翼應對。
白人的殖民表面上看似是大致消退，但見法國對非洲多個前殖民地國家牢固的金融貨幣鉗制操作，進而實際剝削，也大概能想像美元歐元在全球霸權地位的影響力下能如何左右世界。文化思維上，單看港英留存下來的思想干預，還在這個城市蠱惑著人心興風作浪，可見其百年洗腦教育的成效多卓著。而那些為文明，為人道，為公義作借口解放受苦人民的戰爭，全是在環球格局爭權奪利的部署，謊言揭發一個接一個，就是有昏睡的人視若無睹。
邏輯客觀地層層推敲計算發現，掩藏在自由民主的巨大幌子下，歷史的走向是，恐怕中國若不能借這個威權高效的政府團結力量，建立華夏民族能自主當家的穩固立足點，國家就必然被分崩瓦解，國人永遠成為 -受支配的- 世界二等公民了。
陳大文 香港弄成现在这个样子有一部分原因是奥巴马09年提出的’’重返亚太“，从那以后，这个地区就不平静了。当然也有土共的一些原因老实说。没有办法，不管受教育程度多高，不管执政党多么所谓的民主与自由，民众永远都是被操控的对象，只是很多时候民众自己不知道而已，在和平时期我们被“操控”去积极向上，过更好的生活，在不那么和平的时候，我们被“操控”去斗争。这世界分分合合几千年，仅此而已。作为一个生活在海外快十年的大陆人，我对香港的遭遇非常抱歉，但我知道只有当中国大陆强到大让美国服软能和咱一起和平共处的时候，香港，台湾这些“小”地方才真正能够正常发展。best wishes to hk.
I agree with the points of Dr.Dambisa ,At lease ,we should admitted that china has make great progress in past 3 decades it will continue this trend in the predictable time .you can accuse their human right record ,you can criticize their one party system ,and of course ,you can assert that their development is unsustainable ,But you can not ignore the facts looming before you and the whole world :china has became the second biggest economy just after the united states ,even the IMF has announced that china has overtaken the us as the biggest economy in PPP term .If you have ever been to china 10 years ago ,or 20 years ago ,you will find the change is so big beyond your envision ,the common people live in china can tell you their own experience ,compare with their last generation ,their live standard have upgraded dramatically and they are full of confidence of that they future will become more splendid .Compare with the ethereal democracy ,they prefer to the good material live quality .I really appreciate the point Dr.Dambisa mentioned in her speech ,real democracy is based on the educated people with substantial level of income ,or the democracy can not last longer .So i think it is wise method for the china government to focus on economic development even at cost of democracy of their people .after the economy developed into some extend and the society has become mature ,i think the political reform will be put on front burner due to the people 's strong appeal . i think most of the Chinese accept this current gradually development because of the disastrous examples including Iraq ,Syria and Ukraine ,even India .China is different from the united states ,not only the geopolitical circumstance ,economic fundamental ,but also the history ,culture and even the mindset ,so it is natural for china to adopt a different path to develop their country .
Kevin Lin the standard of living for the 800 million 农民 has not risen in 30 years, so say my parents, and relatives
+Luke Leukoderm LMAO, there isn't even 800 million farmers in China anymore, I think you meant the 80 million people who live at the poverty. Well the truth is, 30 years ago, there were 800 million farmers like that, now there is less than 80 million, and the government has put that onto their most important agenda for the next 5 year plan - by 2020 they will bring them out of poverty as well, thanks for you concern though, but your data is so inaccurate that it made me laugh pretty bad, I guess that data is either from India or from the US.
farmers are wandering workers now...农民 turned to 民工，流民，they work mostly at compostion sites as dayworkers or in factory sewing or other 20 hours hard labours....they are still proud being yellow but they prefer studying at colleges abroad....if they have money....or if their children can study at colleges abroad .....their dream is havard
Since America didn't bother my country in last 3 decades but focus on terrorism in the middle east, we try our best to develop economic and improve our lives.
Love China!!!
Stupid dream.
Give me liberty or Give me death--the governor of Virginia--Patrick something--was a slave owner. He owned 119 slaves. How do u feel about his quote now?
+ninxoon30 feel the same actually. whats your point?
+Lamprey Milt hypocrisy, I think, especially for those who thinks that anything that's not democratic is by definition wrong and evil
it was a different time. I dont see anyone crying about the ongoing human trafficking coming from China...
Human trafficking in China? Did you get your delusion from Fox News?
Lamprey Milt Don't lie. Rohingya's are Indians and they sell their own all over south-east Asia.
I'm a simple man, I see Taiwan in the Chinese map, I press like.
But she also mentioned Taiwan as a country
However she said countries like Taiwan and Singapore
China 🇨🇳 🇨🇳
And there's also South Tibet on the map.
看的挺仔细，听的不够仔细啊大兄弟
"We need to first establish a Middle Class which is able to hold the Government accountable"..,
Totally Agree #DambisaMoyo
This has actually been true since the colonial times. What people forget is that Great Britain in the 17th and 18th Century created such a class out of the land-owners and yeoman which made it possible for a colony of such people to create a government unique for its time in the Western Hemisphere.
A series of wars and plagues so depopulated Europe that landowners had to compete for workers. This led to the freedoms and opportunities that created the middle class. And it's these people that build and support representative government.
It's 2019, 2nd year since US waged trade war against China. I was born the same year as you, smart Lady from Zambia.
Just because 2 systems are fundamentally differently, doesn't mean one have to be right and the other has to be wrong. What's wrong with some long term planing and regulated market if it works?
Dambisa Moyo havard other book winner takes all ressources exploited by china
@@nanlei6947 YOU KEEP SAYING THIS EVERYWHERE but IT'S SIMPLY NOT A TRUE STATEMENT.
@@nanlei6947 That's funny, the West took all resources all over the world by Force while China paid by money....
These are the people we want in society who are able to differentiate democracy, economics and politics administration dichotomy analytically.
With the complexity of economics and its traits people are blind folded with wealth gaining to sustainable economic policy standards...
Go Go Go Dambisa we gat you back...
Every country has its own model and history. It is a good model as long as it level up the living standard of the people. As the lady said, what we should do is just keeping open-minded instead of judging.
Exactly, I began to get interested in social problems in China since I started my university life in Chongqing and criticized our government on almost every issue from one child policy, environment pollution, to non-democracy and so on. Finally I went abroad and found we Chinese really have different ways on living, dealing with things almost on everything from Westerns. Although China suffer a lot of social problems now, compared to other undeveloped, so-called democratic countries I began to feel lucky China is controlled by a Centralized government at least now when it is still a developing country.
bioese Totally agree. I was a 愤青 who criticized anything tha chinese government did and had always been attracted by the idea spreaded by western developed countries. Ironically, now I am in chicago, but I have never appreciated the chinese government's achievement more than I do now. The experience of studying and living abroad is mind-blowing. The disturbing issue here is safety, which is the last issue I should be concerned about in China. I can wander on the street in the middle of night without being worried about safety back in china. However, in Chicago, I was robbed of cellphone on the street in the daylight. It is not a single case. A lot of students here have experience of being robbed. Once in a while, we heard the news that some student was shot, or even raped. Crime and gun are rampant in the city. And the police cannot do something to stop it. Anyway, democracy is not the panacea. At least, Chinese government performs much better than U.S. government in terms of ensuring personal safety. No system is the perfect system. They do have drawbacks respectively. In sum, every country shoud find her own way to thrive. Yes, the way that U.S. choose is awesome. But it might not fit every country in any phase of development. After all, we should not forget near full enfranchisement in U.S. was realized (in 1965) only for decades. There was a long time before the current system that U.S. adopted that government barely guarded any citizen's human rights. But you cannot deny that U.S. is not a great nation before 1965. Therefore, I am convined that chinese government is now equivalent to the U.S. government before 1965.
仓廪实而知礼节
衣食足而知荣辱
有西方饮水饱。
@@jingangjingxinjing 要做爱，不作战
经济基础决定上层建筑。
Gongsheng Wei 这张地图我要给她赞
刘子豪 translates please
Totally agree. A good quality and sustainable democracy requires a huge and stable middle class. This means, for many developing countries, economic should come before democracy. In order to compete with China, the West should cooperate with this model of development, instead of criticizing China's every move.
Who is watching in 2020!
Me
China Is spr power 🇨🇳❤️🇮🇳
Seeing this in 2019, with the trade war going on, really shows how correct she is.
I'm glad she was totally proven wrong. Social Credit says it all. Less and less freedom and still way behind the USA GDP
Amazing
How she explained to us
I'm from Africa especially
Somalia
And all african people will tell you china is better
+Cometita Blin Blin Africans dont want American military intervention in their internal affairs.
+Cometita Blin Blin So what has America done to prevent genocide in Africa? Sanctions? Because that's gonna solve the problem, right?
+SOMALI SOMALI DHALAY somali, the poorest country in the world, your opinion does not count
Luke Leukoderm lol. Somalia is richest country in this world
Go back to ur homework
SOMALI SOMALI DHALAY desperately poor
Despite the lack of effective national governance, Somalia maintains an informal economy largely based on livestock, remittance/money transfer companies, and telecommunications. Agriculture is the most important sector with livestock normally accounting for about 40% of GDP and more than 50% of export earnings. Nomads and semi-pastoralists, who are dependent upon livestock for their livelihood, make up a large portion of the population. Livestock, hides, fish, charcoal, and bananas are Somalia's principal exports, while sugar, sorghum, corn, qat, and machined goods are the principal imports. Somalia's small industrial sector, based on the processing of agricultural products, has largely been looted and the machinery sold as scrap metal. Telecommunication firms provide wireless services in most major cities and offer the lowest international call rates on the continent. Mogadishu's main market offers a variety of goods from food to electronic gadgets. Hotels continue to operate and are supported with private-security militias. Somalia's government lacks the ability to collect domestic revenue, and arrears to the IMF have continued to grow. Somalia's capital city - Mogadishu - has witnessed the development of the city's first gas stations, supermarkets, and flights between Europe (Istanbul-Mogadishu) since the collapse of central authority in 1991. This economic growth has yet to expand outside of Mogadishu, and within the city, security concerns dominate business. In the absence of a formal banking sector, money transfer/remittance services have sprouted throughout the country, handling up to $1.6 billion in remittances annually, although international concerns over the money transfers into Somalia currently threatens these services.
GDP (purchasing power parity):
$5.896 billion (2010 est.)
$5.75 billion (2009 est.)
$5.607 billion (2008 est.)
note: data are in 2010 US dollars
country comparison to the world: 169
GDP (official exchange rate):
$2.372 billion (2010 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:
2.6% (2010 est.)
2.6% (2012 est.)
2.6% (2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 126
GDP - per capita (PPP):
$600 (2010 est.)
$600 (2009 est.)
$600 (2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 229
GDP - composition, by end use:
household consumption: 72.7%
government consumption: 8.7%
investment in fixed capital: 19.9%
investment in inventories: 0.4%
exports of goods and services: 0.3%
imports of goods and services: -1.7%
(2013 est.)
GDP - composition, by sector of origin:
agriculture: 60.2%
industry: 7.4%
services: 32.5% (2013 est.)
Agriculture - products:
bananas, sorghum, corn, coconuts, rice, sugarcane, mangoes, sesame seeds, beans; cattle, sheep, goats; fish
Industries:
light industries, including sugar refining, textiles, wireless communication
Industrial production growth rate:
2.5% (2013 est.)
country comparison to the world: 97
Labor force:
3.109 million (2013 est.)
country comparison to the world: 103
Labor force - by occupation:
agriculture: 71%
industry and services: 29% (1975)
Unemployment rate:
NA%
Population below poverty line:
NA%
Household income or consumption by percentage share:
lowest 10%: NA%
highest 10%: NA%
Budget:
revenues: $NA
expenditures: $NA
Fiscal year:
NA
Inflation rate (consumer prices):
NA%
note: businesses print their own money, so inflation rates cannot be easily determined
Central bank discount rate:
NA%
Commercial bank prime lending rate:
NA%
Exports:
$515.8 million (2012 est.)
$594.3 million (2011 est.)
country comparison to the world: 172
Exports - commodities:
livestock, bananas, hides, fish, charcoal, scrap metal
Exports - partners:
UAE 44.4%, Yemen 19.1%, Oman 15.4%, India 5.6% (2014)
Imports:
$1.263 billion (2010 est.)
$798 million (2006 est.)
country comparison to the world: 175
Imports - commodities:
manufactures, petroleum products, foodstuffs, construction materials, qat
Imports - partners:
Djibouti 19.8%, India 14.7%, Oman 9.1%, China 9%, Kenya 8.9%, Pakistan 4.7% (2014)
Debt - external:
$3.054 billion (31 December 2013 est.)
$3.055 billion (31 December 2012 est.)
country comparison to the world: 137
Exchange rates:
Somali shillings (SOS) per US dollar -
1,600 (2014 est.)
1,600 (2013 est.)
Economic well being is a prerequisite for democracy, and not the other way around. I couldn't have said it better myself
What needs to be remembered though, is that although economic rights will lead to political rights, long term economic growth is impossible without complete and harmonized economic and political freedom. Capitalist Liberal Democracies are the only states that can enjoy indefinite growth. China's model has reaped massive benefits in the short term but they are already suffering from massive problems. Their economy is being entirely supported by infrastructure development and the fraction of the economy that actually enjoys market reforms. Almost all state run enterprise (which is a lot of the economic activity) is largely unprofitable. China's total government debt is over $6 trillion. They could pay that off tomorrow but then their entire capital reserves would be gone and they'd just be like the rest of us. So the key to remember is to not trade political rights for short term economic growth. Demand economic rights and use the profits to fund the campaign for political rights. Liberty is precious, and if the populace does not have it or value it then the state will always be able to reverse economic growth at the snap of their fingers. The state will always be the biggest threat to growth, even if it is a necessary facilitator.
***** Indeed China's model is not perfect, nor is any other model. But it is working a lot, especially for developing nations. Throughout the history of any nation, political rights were never on the table so long as the people did not take for granted basics such as food & shelter. The moment those basics were secured, then people started discussing about how to acquire more rights, but not before those basics were secured. The fact of the matter is that a hungry stomach doesn't give a damn about whether or not they have the right to vote. Their first and primary concern is to eat. The reason you and I have this conversation today is because we don't have a worry whatsoever about where we will sleep tonight or what we'll eat. Yet it's not the case for billions of people out there. And to those billions, democracy is irrelevant. What they need is to secure their food supply ;).
All she spoke in this event, most of it already happened. Amazing!
She was proven wrong by history.
It seems to me a lot of people in the comments are missing the point of the talk. This wasn't trying to discuss the ideological merits and flaws of either of the two systems outlined. The argument she was trying to make is that people care more about economic wellbeing than political liberties, especially in countries where poverty runs rampant. The second point she made is that populations tend to gravitate towards social and political systems which appear to provide the best method for generating wealth and curbing down poverty. Regardless of what one may think about China in ideological terms, the point here was that China's massive economic growth is leading people in developing countries to believe that China is sure doing something right. As an individual brought up in Europe, my personal morals do clash with some human rights issues in China, but if I disregard that and try to look at the matter from a purely objective point of view, China does at least APPEAR to be doing SOMETHING right. And that's why developing countries are beginning to gravitate more towards China than the USA.
the west , esp. the US, is being unfair intentionally and unintentionally. there was not much democracy and respect for human rights when the west rose. remember all the colonies and slaves that the wealth and prosperity of the west are built upon? it's so easy to talk about democracy and human rights when one is rich but what about the poor? all these craps are just BS used to prevent countries from threatening the dominance of the west.
One reason why China censors its internet - the world has been hostile to China. Look at the videos and topics on RUclips and Twitter abt China, tyranny/ dictatorship/brainwash etc. We have a wall built by our government and you have a wall built by your media.
I guess the human right issues you heard about China are from western media
As there's so many things happening around the world, western media tend to pick the much milder issues in China to report as headlines and focus topics, but scarcely mention their own taboo ones and those happened in allied nations or unthreatening countries.
Better due with your racial discrimination and face your nation's bloody colonization history and pay back all the wealth your ancestors robbed from others inhumanely before you talk human rights. China is just trying to earn their rightful penny without using the nasty means your western powers used in the past. In that sense China's rising is angelic compared with the western slaving and colonizing approach.
@@heesoyuy The "good" people decide what should and shouldn't be seen by others.
Moyo is right on, but I would take it much further. The combination of liberal democracy & free market economics - as propagated by the West - has NEVER propelled a developing country into the status of a developed country, not even the western countries themselves. Until the mid-20th century, western countries, including the US, got ahead of the rest of the world through oligarchical rule at home & aggression abroad (imperialism, colonialism, ethnic cleansing). The development models of today's emerging economies have been far more humane by comparison. Democracy has NEVER been a prerequisite for growth & development.
I'm Chinese and yeah u know, a Chinese who thinks like one. I can tell you its kinda useless to criticise China (especially if you are on the other side). Cuz the Chinese think like this;
if our enemy praise us, we must be very cautious about what we did. We must have done something wrong. If they criticise us, we can be relaxed because we did things right.
Well, just want to make it clear, that logic comes from the Chinese insights collected through the past few decades on the western foreign policies and western political and financial strategies. It's not a traditional Chinese way of thinking.
Dambisa Moyo
Your words issued 6 years ago via Ted holds true, There is a universal truth, one which does not ever fall out of favour, and that is to have economic prosperity and stability. All humanity first and foremost, need the security of food and shelter before anything else.
I'm in love with this woman, she is articulate, intelligent and tend to see positives without denigrating others.
Bravo, I hope you get the widest exposure to your positive and prescient views and analysis.
最好的民主是民生，最好的自由是治安
Wow ! The best Ted talk I’ve heard in many years. This is the inconvenient truth, the big elephant in the room for the naive proponents of liberal democracies. Democracy is a great ideal ! But feed, cloth, house and educate your population first.
小姐姐说了好多，一句中国老话足以概括之：“仓廪实而知礼仪”！谢谢！
Everything she had pointed out in 2013 has come true in 2020. What a smart lady.
Wrong, she said that the Chinese GDP would surpass the USA by 2016. Well, in 2023, they are still far behind, and they have removed even more rights from their citizens.
our own Zambian sharing the best of all time
Who is rewatching this now in April 2020! ☺️❤️🌎🍀
2021😉
democracy is overrated.
AMERICAN democracy is like givesing people choice between Coke or Pepsi.
AMRERICA IS NOT BUILD UPON CONFUCIAN FUNDAMENTALS SO THEY CAN'T ALSO SURVIVE UNDER COMMUNISM.
bUT DEMOCRACY IS DANGEROUS,IT'S PATHWAY FOR BANKERS & GLOBALIST INTERVENTION AND CONTROL OF THE GOVERNANCE, RENDERING DESTRUCTION OF CULTURE AND DEMOGRAPHY AND EXPLOITATION OF PUBIC IN GENERAL.
Democracy is government by and for rich donors!
True democracy has been hijacked.
Democracy demands an engaged and informed populace. American are neither engaged or informed.
Engagement is more than voting every 2 or 4 years. Engagement includes talking with others, letting others know what you need and hearing what other people need. Engagement should happen every day. Political polarization is a failure to really listen to other points of view, succumbing to the comfortable laziness of the echo chamber.
Power can run amuck when the populace is uninformed. News is a for-profit enterprise. Social media is perfectly happy to cater to outrage by trafficking in fake news. The populace is bombarded by echo chamber advertising and fake news.
American democracy is doubled messed up when politicians are bought by monied interests. So even after the populace makes up its mind between candidates the winner has been pre-undermined by his/her donors. Who is the politician going to pay attention to? One of hundreds of thousands of constituents OR a donor whose money could make all the difference in the next election?
IF Americans actually give a fig about wanting a democracy they MUST demand 1- publicly funded election campaigns, 2- publicly funded news gathering and publication. Until then American "democracy" is a PLUTOCRACY.
I find this talk open-minded, objective, sharing a lot of facts and a pleasure to watch.
That’s what I’m talking about being open-minded and not criticizing one’s system.
Some people here did not listen to the talk before commenting. It is a talk about being open-minded, and realising that what YOU think isn't what the rest of the world thinks.
correction to be made, Taiwan is not a country, Taiwan is a province of China.
+dragondescendant1 Ask the people in Taiwan if it is a province. Have you been there? I have! Not once did I see a PRC flag. I have traveled all round China, Taiwan is the only "province" that I haven't seen a Chinese flag.....interesting.
+Joel South About Taiwan....October 25, 1971 ,The government of the republic of China was expelled from the UN,its seat was inherited by the government of People's Republic of China.The UN is based on "one China principle" to make the decision.The Kuomintang and the Communist Party of China began a civil war for State power,Finally,the kuomintang (KMT) lost the war,and Retreated to the island of Taiwan.When the Communist army ready to attack the KMT in Taiwan , the United States to intervene ...Of course , the Korean War also dispersed most of China's energy,Therefore, this issue has been left up to now.During this time, the KMT and the CPC did not sign any truce agreement,So from a legal perspective, the war did not end,Just the relationship is not so tense...In the midst of a truce.Two political parties armed partition rule within the framework of one China,this is relatively accurate statement.Taiwan has never declared independence,Taiwan as a country is not recognized in the official international politics and diplomacy,most countries in the world have not established formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan.Therefore, Taiwan is not a country.
+Yang Hi Yang, thank you very much for the history lesson. Now, let me give you an English one. Let me begin by asking you one question: Where, in my comment, did I say Taiwan is a country? I know my comment is a massive 4 sentences long so please take your time to read it.
Finished? Okay, as you can see I didn't say that Taiwan was a country, I just said that it wasn't a province so could you possibly step down off your nationalistic high horse now? Thanks.
I like this reciprocal learning relationship we have, you teaching me history and me teaching you English. We should keep it going!!!
Joel South international community is laughing at idiots like you right now. English or Chinese history, simply look up what
ISO3166TW is saying. Taiwan is a province of China, no if, and or buts. Many idiots like you wanting to carve up China, it is an old fashion western strategy, divide and conquer bullshit. "Tibet is not China", "Taiwan is not China", "South China Sea is not China", you know what, every places I mentioned are part of China. Chinese and the world are a lot smarter than idiots like you.
+dragondescendant1 I completely understand that the political situation is delicate at best but I just think it is foolish to say that in today's economy Taiwan has the same role as Sichuan, Henan or any of the other provinces in China. I am pretty sure that all of the provinces in China contribute to China's GDP I have just never seen anything saying that Taiwan does as well. Also, I have no issue saying that Tibet is Chinese but the claim to the South China Sea a little ambitious. I actually agree with what Dambasa Moyo is saying completely. I believe that the Beijing consensus has a lot more to offer developing nations than the Washington consensus does.....namely in its adaptability.
To understand the contrast between China's economic success in recent years and the relatively lagging (at least by Western standard) political progress, you have to first understand the Chinese prospective of legitimacy of power. For most Chinese people, the legitimacy of a government comes first and foremost from its competence, as opposed to democratic election. This mentality is deeply rooted in the tradition of elite bureaucracy that lasted for thousands of years in the ancient Chinese Empire. Starting around 600AD, China had been selecting talents via Imperial Exam for civil service positions, trying its best to make sure that the government is only run by the brightest and the most righteous men of the nation. The exam now exists in the form of Civil Service Exam. It's the biggest source of government officials in China, kinda like a bar exam for politicians. Once in the system of power, they climb the ladder the way most employees climb their corporate ladders, by good performance and kissing butts.
I'm not saying that Chinese people are against democratic elections. As citizens of a developing modern society, the Chinese do want our political rights. And some forms of democracy do exist in a many current political procedures. But all things considered, we care more about our politicians being able to do their jobs right than "he's a guy you want to have a beer with."
The reality is, China is in a struggle between national stability for continuing the economic growth and political progress for eliminating corruption and power abuse. In fact, many liberals in China (myself included several years ago) see the US as the best model of modern political system to learn from. But even most of the liberals don't believe China will establish an institution mirroring that of America. If China could get true democracy one day, it would be different from the form as we know in the Western world.
I've been living in the US for 4 years now, witnessing the rights Americans enjoy and the problems Americans are experiencing. I now have a more practical view of democracy. Democracy, in my opinion, is not really about punching ballots to choose between the dumb and the dumber. It's about having a viable way to defend your rights and having the policy makers respond to your needs, and ultimately about better living conditions. China is still a long way from that. But I do see promising signs, economic growth being the strongest of them. Democracy in that sense is facilitated but not created by the institution. It stems from the social resources owned by the common citizens. There is research saying that when a nation's GDP per capita hits a certain point, democracy is inevitable. Right now only about 23% of the population in China can be considered as middle-class and we are already seeing great improvement in civil rights. I'm optimist about what's going to happen in 20-30 years.
Thank you for such a great comment.
This comment deserves academic merit.
Tong Lu your thoughts or the Chinese thought is very similar to Plato concept of the philosopher kings. Plato himself hated democracy in Athens and he believed that aristocracy is the best system. Not to be confused with aristocracy like kings or queens where power is given by hereditary Plato idea is that rulers should be philosophers and intellectuals.
Thank you so much for this comment, I'm leaving more enlightened than I came thanks to you 🙌🏾
All developing countries should learn from China in regards to empower the economy.
If you have the power.
can't help to sharing it to my friend who immigranted to US several years ago. He said he flet sorry for we having no freedom no democracy. I gave him a long speech to help him understand we are good. The best political system is the one can help people have a better life.
China's experience is: know who you are, know what you want, know what is outside world is now, find your suitable way by experiment and never mind the name others call you, lol. For sure this is always the right way for anyone, lol.
china philosophy is so simple - BE YOURSELF
eiji kenji Well said.
So true.
No, it is not an idol, but an example in which Nation-States can decide to follow, or set their own course.
well han was a nation state but tang changed it to multi cultural state..after song yuan mongolian ulan bator included ming qing are mixed but you know they are facing tibetean exile government and muslim east turk independence movement and japanese taiwan independence movement all supported by cia money abroad
This is a speech eight years ago, and the development of China after eight years is unimaginable. In 2021, China has achieved a nationwide eradication of poverty, 400 million people have become a middle class, 150 million people travel abroad every year, and Chinese tourists spend more than 200 billion US dollars overseas each year. In 2021, China not only realized the probe landing on the moon, and brought back the lunar soil and successfully landed on Mars, the Chinese manned space station that will replace the International Space Station, Beidou navigation satellite that replaces GPS and covers the world, and so on. . .
I believe these are unimaginable for this lady eight years ago. Finally, in the words of Singaporean Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew, democracy cannot bring progress.
How do you eradicate nationwide poverty in a nation of 1.4B, when only 400M join middle class. Youre ignoring the 1B who are still poor..
How does goin to the moon solve poverty, instead of building more sch & hospitals..?
China becomes wealthier only when it gave its ppl more freedom, exactly what Democracy req..
@@RedHanded1969 Poor and low income don't equate to poverty. The correct way to say is "China has achieved a nationwide eradication of ABSOLUTE poverty.
@@peternjoyce extreme poverty
It's kinda funny that her speech applies today even more so than in 2013. Clearly, not enough of her audiences went into self-reflection or they didn't have the rippling effect on the western world (not that anyone would expect 1 speech to). But this is a speech worth giving at the UN. She is absolutely on point about the reality that to most people, economic prosperity means more than a vote. At the end of the day, the idea of voting in the first place is to be able to elect someone who has your best interest, and that could mean adopting policies that help the economy to improve your live. It's quite childish to sit on the moral high ground, accusing poor countries of following "the commies" while you sit on high GDP per capita. Especially when you are one of the African countries who was colonized for many years. The west has virtually done nothing that helped Africa in a marco-economic perspective. Don't get me wrong, a lot of humanitarian missions by the west are genuine (Think doctors without borders), but has the governments truly done anything meaningful to help Africa grow?
Americans today, spearheaded by Trump, are publicly chanting "America first". Why would anyone else in the world even have more hope that America is going to help them? You are literally telling them you only care about yourself. There is nothing wrong with putting your country first but when your slogans are about yourself only then you ask why your followers stop following you... what do you really expect?
Yes, incredibly this speech was given 7 years old. And many African nations have since come a long way in economic development.
Yes, without stability, there is no economic development. Without economic development, there will not be a sustainable democracy
To me this Talk highlights that people support escaping poverty over anything else. It's also asking to unite all people in this goal because it isn't us against them it's all of us together it always has been and always will be.
Great post, Nick. Wish I could say it better, but you said it right. We are a global economy now, a point that is missed by so many. We in the US are still holding on to freedoms and rights that have long slipped through out hands. Now it's time we started acting like part of the world, accepting what is, and join those who are trying to make it better. We have to come together, or we will all fall apart. Thanks Nick.
It´s a charity to see these comments here, and most of them are ironic, i think I really agree with my professor Cervera, he said we Chinese talk less and do more, finally we win. It doesn´t mean that China has ignored the domestic problems, it has actually, we try to keep pace with the western countries, that requests time as western countries have spent 200years to gain what they have today. The international markets need China that´s why it has been developing in recent year so fast,thanks for the dependence on China! We do our jobs to make money to produce prosperity, not rely on the wars to make us rich. That´s called human right.
After all It´s all about Open Minded!!
I like the presentation. Simple and straight forward but packed with verifiable data. I like it that it is coming from an African woman.
There is no one perfect answer for any country. Each country has to realize that their political and economic models must be fluid. It must be flexible. Capitalism by itself and socialism by itself are not sustainable. There has to be a balance with these concepts and include sustainable resource-based models as well.
One positive aspect is that I believe more countries are realizing that 'gun-boat diplomacy' practiced by the U.S. over the last 60 years is not sustainable and violence (and threat of violence) is no longer as effective as it used to be to control countries. China is showing the world that it can match the U.S. economic power without numerous military interventions and global military-base expansion. Economic power is true power.
God this woman is an absolute powerhouse of information.
She was proven wrong
Another factor to consider : people's subjective wellbeing. Do they feel repressed, anxious and not being able to feel that life is enjoyable. You don't want eventually find that that the only thing you have is money
I don't know why there is a lack of personality study. Chinese citizens are the most obedient in the world. They improved their life by themselves, not the government.
If you study Chinese history, you will know that Chinese could be anything but "OBEDIENce".
Zheng Cai for example?
Tong Wo If people complain too much, are they obedient or not? In China, you can hear people complaining on almost everything. Meanwhile, these complain promote this country improves little by little.
bioese Didn't know complaining while standing by is insubordinate. It's like judging a man who only boast as a success. What I mean is the chinese way does not necessarily work in other countries.
jesse sun Ok. I think we reach a consensus that each country has its own model. No one should impose its own to others. Good.
I needed to listen to this exceptional viewpoint. Wonderful talk, Dr. Moyo, and supportive greetings from a Zambian millennial.
I think, Every country should design its own system based on the specific conditions in their own country. As a Chinese, I like our system because it combines capitalism and socialism together, and it achieves our goals gradually. In China, we believe ' governing a large country just like cooking a small delicacy', u must be cautious, patient and tough. Thus, in my opinion, the behavior of western countries, selling their system worldwide, is very irresponsible. They should not decide what system other country should apply, they are quite obsessed with playing like 'god'.
+北镇抚司赵官家
Agreed.....
【从来都是发展带来民主，而不是民主带来发展】；无论是现在的中国还是之前的日韩以及最初的西方列强都是如此。视频中有一句话说得很好：【想要建立一个民主的政府，首先你要有一个数量众多、强大的、有能力也有足够的知识去问责政府的中产阶级】，当这一部分获得了较高知识素养的人群在享受了发展红利之后，他们才会反抗不公平的统治；而如果没有这一批层次的人，那么所谓的民主只能是民粹。
China certainly is no saint and clearly has ulterior motives, but China has done more good in Africa in the last 10 years than the West has done in centuries. China has done some bad in Africa too, some Africans have mistreated Chinese people as well, but overall not as much bad as the west has done. However, I don't think it's because of democracy. Westerners were too brutal as colonizers and then later, even in their aid, at times too arrogant in their approach and almost patronizing. ruclips.net/video/P5uzxV8ub9k/видео.html (see 18:30-21:30 in the linked video)
Fantastic, a very good speech.
I don't think other countries can copy the success of China, due to the following reasons.
1. Chinese are atheist, so no burden of religion.
2. Chinese are very hard working.
3. Chinese had a long culture and intelligent which other countries don't have.
"Chinese are atheist" they are not
Reminded me of this video: Eric X. Li: A tale of two political systems
I am Chinese, I study in British. In China, we have an old saying, that is weak countries do not have diplomatic relations. Although China has some shortcomings, but it is quite natural for an industrialized country. We got to know that every western country have experienced pollution period. Such as London Smop Incidents. China is a typical successful transforamtion country and nobody can stop its development.
Excellent talk!
Wow still watching in 2019 à blessing you are Dambisa Moyo to our world thank you you've opened my vision
What Dambisa Moyo does not understand is that the US does not impose her ideology to improve their standard of living, She does it to be able to either control or have greater influence on the target's foreign policy.
I am from China and this country is far from perfect! But she is not that bad neither. Every country has its own problem. China too. We have a lot of sacrifice in Environment and human rights, for economic growth. But we need time to improve. So my friends from all over the world, we are welcome for all your valuable advice and suggestions!
One thing I think she did not take into account is that China has a lot of educated cheap labor, which is essential to our economic growth.
My God! America is actually learning something! lol
Joking aside, I think we are heading for a middle term. Dictatureships need flexability. And democracies need rules. My only concern is that this is only being done for profit and NOT for the individual wellbeing. The human evolution needs a better path than that.
Democracies have rules, it's just not everybody following them. Is there any particular rules you feel missing?
Economics is, arguably, the most hotly debating set of ideals ever put forward in human history. To me, arguing over religion is a mugs game. Economics and social issues is what it's really about.
Knowledge indeed..she was brilliant.
As a Westerner operating and living in China, for 9 years I have experience at the coal face doing business for the benefit of China, from the boarders of Mongolia to the shores of Shenzhen in the South. I have witnessed the growth of such mega cities has Chongqing,its true the economical growth of China has been impressive, and it's true many people have been lifted out of poverty, there are still many more to assist, and central government are doing a great job on building the infrastructure. The question is will it last, and I would argue no ! Economic growth is only sustainable through innovation, innovation is only sustainable through freedom, risk and an infrastructure with a robust legal system. In addition as salaries rise , efficiency stagnates China will become uncompetitive, and what do you think those "middle" classes are in search of now, more freedom to grow is this democracy I don't know ? But at the moment while the changes in China are impressive its low hanging fruit, not sure as it moves up the hierarchal needs of it's maturing classes wether the speed of growth be maintained or will the infrastructure that has been impressive over several decades now be its demise?
I still don't get the idea of dying from hunger while being free. And this is from 6 years ago!!! Imagine what she will say today.
Ultimately its about individual countries adopting ONLY what works for them, NOT to blindly copy or have a system foisted on them.
100% your read my mind, "democracy is NOT per-requisite for economical growth"
But democracy shouldn't be the final solution for human being. We should always explore and find the best way for ourselves, not necessarily the China Model or the Western Model, but a model that fits each country's culture.
No African nation has come within light years of imitating China, and I doubt any ever will. I also question Dr Moyo's understanding of China. I say that in part because I suspect that nobody, including the Chinese, truly understands what has happened in China since 1980. I agree that economic development does not require freedom and democracy. But nations that experience a lot of economic growth sooner or later have to submit to the rule of law and representative democracy. Wealth and industrialisation embody power, and power is inevitably abused. Democracy and human rights are human conventions that limit (imperfectly) the abuse of power. The best known ways to temper that abuse of power are due process, the rule of law, and representative democracy.
The West lacks the ability to lead, because Europe and Japan are rapidly aging, and because the USA is in continual conflict with the Moslem world. Hence Africa will have to find its own way forward. Africa as a whole has done better this century than it did 1960-2000, but high commodity prices are the main reason for that. True economic development (as in Taiwan and South Korea) has yet to occur in Africa.
alnot01 "Democracy and human rights are human conventions that limit (imperfectly) the abuse of power." You obviously don't live in the US, and are not Black, Latino, or Native America, a member of the working poor, etc., etc.
Dennis Etler
Note my weasel word "imperfectly" which encompasses everything you say.
African nations imitate whatever works for them in different ways, maybe China, partially or completely. Focusing on economic growth is better than on democracy. Having 10 bread per week is significant different from 5 bread per week, because people gain more "freedom" to pick their favorite bread. Then they gain more "freedom" naturally in other areas as economic grows.
Wow clever + fighting the good fight + accepting the reality as it is. Amazing speaker.
I liked the speech, I liked the presentation , hopefully her message would make people to open their minds and change their attitudes. No one is perfect, Not a single man-made system is perfect and universal. We should all sit down and learn from each other's success stories and avoid their failures. Self-righteousness is hateful in both human and God's eyes! America's judgemental attitude is losing to China's learning attitude.
Very well said. Every culture is different. It doesn't have to be "one size fits all".
Dr Sun Yat Sen was & is correct that the 3 Principles of the People is still relevant in the World today.
He said that economic growth is the result of Democracy, Nationalism and People'a Livelihood.
The problem with Dr Sun he got the priorities in the reverse order.
Governments must first look at People's Livelihood as the first legitimate reason for their mandate of power.
Your knowledge is amazing. You have my respect.
She is super smart ... "Just amazingly smart" ... Fantastic presentation ☄
True,China has made great steps in improving the livelihood of her citizens. Many people are accessing higher education,expanding its market,expansion of its road network etc. I think a country like Kenya is learning a lot from China. Since independence,only 10,000 kms of roads have been tarmacked while the railway system remain the same in Kenya. Kenya is now set to expand its road network by tarmacking additional 10000kms of her roads,construction of standard gauge railway has already began,building of a second port thank to the current government led by President Uhuru Kenyatta and Deputy President William Ruto.Many children are now accessing education and we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Hope that Africa will be better. Corruption remains to be a cancer that is eating Africa and for us to grow,we must stop tolerating it. Everyone should blow the whistle and vote wisely whenever required to do so.
As a matter fact, unlike the west people, we Chinese never ever want to sale our system or our model. But the world will observe and learn and think. But we do want to say it’s indeed really important you can think in your own mind and heart which is better for you.
One large detail about Western countries that people often overlook, is that most of them were not Liberal Democracies until after they had already developed a large middle class.
America itself only truly made progress to get rid of Jim crow, ensure voting rights, and equality once it had already become a superpower after WWII. The fact is, there is no country in the word that achieved first world status before becoming a Liberal Democracy. If in the future India achieves first world status, they will be the first and probably the only country in the history of the world to do this.
China's growth and political progress is going in the same direction as America. When America was still industrializing (like China is today) they still had Jim crow, women and minorities could not vote, and worker rights were brutally oppressed. In the future, when China's middle class becomes the majority in the country we will see if they start to demand Liberal Democracy.
" In the future, when China's middle class becomes the majority in the country we will see if they start to demand Liberal Democracy."
As a Chinese, I can tell you that will never happen...
deadbutmoving As a Chinese migrants which lived in western country for 25 years and done several votings myself I will also vote for having not having a democracy political system, at least not the democracy as it is today.
you can join our communist party and then you can take over our government
you can choose socialists liberals and conservatives....or right radicals like kkk or front national or left liberals like green party pirates and others......but you may join them if you like and get elected as town mayor or sheriff or senator
this actually makes more sense than i thought it would. if we look at maslow's hierarchy of needs, self actualisation comes AFTER economic stability (survival/basic needs).
Economic development is how ANY form of government is able to last beyond being a thought. Totalitarian governments rely on economics as much as any democratic government. If people are starving, the government gets overthrown eventually.
I like Dambisa's open mind and agree her opinion regarding to how democracy can be positive factor rather than negative factor. You should have a big and strong middle class before you can run democracy well. So, the answer is clear.
这是我看过最客观公正的对中西方政治体制的阐述。民主是经济发展和人民生活水平提高后结出的果，而不是根。西方靠着殖民掠夺和工业革命的高速发展以及启蒙运动带来的远超第三世界的受教育人口，为民主制度奠定了基础，但在这样的背景下以美国为例的西方国家达到完全的民主也花了一百多年。曾经的亚洲四小龙在经济飞速发展的时期无不是处于专制政府统治的年代，的确，自由和民主是人类共同的伟大理想，但却也像一剂麻醉剂，过分的向往所谓的自由，往往会让我们忽视眼前的真正问题。
The Chinese way is deeply rooted in their culture, in their history, it is in their DNA, the USA, Russia is the same.
Excellent well researched presentation. Thank you. If an emerging country can follow the Chinese example and make success of it that would be absolutely great. But when you travel in china you realize it has always been a developed country, actually even before the western countries. Invasion by you know who, had put the country back by many years. So it has rich history, knowledge and experience to build on. Unfortunately many emerging countries can't match China for the raw ingredients needed to see the same rate of growth. In fact following Chinese example in such countries may only produce new corrupt dictators benefiting only a few with no say by the people. So, net-net, in my opinion emerging countries can learn from all the political model and decide what's best for their country. They can also learn from other successful emerging countries such as India, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, where democracy continues to produce results. Thank you.
History has proven her wrong.
She's great!
中国中学的政治课本上有一句话“经济基础决定上层建筑”，这里的“上层建筑”指的是“政治制度”。政治制度的改变更多的是来自经济发展之后的需求所推动。举个例子来说，英国的民主制度就是因为工业革命爆发了生产力，产生了大批的资产阶级（这里的资产阶级包括工厂主、资本家、小手工业者，大致相当于当时的中产阶级），而这些资产阶级需要更多的政治权力来保证他们的资产安全，所以这些资产阶级才强迫英国王室签署了《大宪章》。而这才是西方现代民主的开端。现在西方国家对外推行的民主，比如普选，有哪个西方国家真的这么做了吗？
Fantastic talk.
I don't like the "graphs" where all the data has been removed. Most glaring was maybe the income inequality index, Gini ratio. It actually looks like this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gini_since_WWII.svg
My eyes burned through all those graphs without units, too. There's just no way of reading those, they're just pretty ornaments put there to deceive people.
Wonderful presentation, Great testimony Hearty Congratulations Dr. Dimbisa Moyo, Dr. Tenneti Jayaraju
Her view really hurts somebody, though pretty much are fair and true.
Just as the West respect the diversity of human individualism, the West must also respect the diversity of political & economic systems of other countries.
ORIGINAL THINKING, I like it.
Your parents must be very proud, Dambisa! They probably had sacrificed a lot to give you education, like a lot of parents in developing countries are doing.