As far as I can surmise in Doctor Who there are some things that can be changed that will not cause problems with time but there are also fixed points in time which cannot be changed. Love your reviews.
My personal theory: a fixed point in time is when there is written, photographic proof of the event. For instance, in the episode "Waters Of Mars", the death of the main astronaut is a fixed point. it will always happen, no matter what you do. The Doctor, in his hubris, tries to mess with the laws of time by saving her, but she ends up killing herself. Still on the day that her death was reported. just in a different way than before the Doctor's intervention.
My own kooky interpretation is that the Laws of Time are literally *laws*, made by the Time Lords, rather than physical laws like gravity. I reckon a fixed point is something the Time Lords *decided* should be fixed, so that the universe would stay reasonably stable. Like one of those old syndicated kids' cartoons in which you can show the episodes in any order except for certain 'tentpoles' like the premiere and finale. The rest of history can wibble-wobble in flux due to time traveller shenanigans, but everyone's agreed certain events should be pinned to the wall to stop the whole serpentine mess collapsing. Otherwise history could change so drastically that the Time Lords never existed in the first place, or Teletubbies eat the universe before it's a day old, or whatever. This would also explain why that Dalek in the Waters of Mars didn't zap young Adelaide. It *could* have, since fixed points are just things everyone agrees not to mess with. But it knew history would fly off the wall and thrash around so much that the Daleks themselves might be prevented from existing... which would throw a bit of a spanner into their plan to reality-bomb the universe a few hours later. "NICE--JOB--BREAKING--IT--DALEK." But I'm just a cat, so what do I know.
RE the Father's Day/Christmas Carol questions... In Father's Day Rose traveled back in time (Rose 1) to see her father before he died. She then traveled back to the same moment again (Rose 2), but this time she changed what happened, which meant that Rose 1 never ran off crying and came back a second time to become Rose 2. That created a paradox, which caused the Reapers to appear and start killing people to fix the wound (kill Pete). Rose touching Baby Rose was another paradox - because the same person can't be in the same place twice basically - which allowed the Reapers access to where it happened, inside the church. Rose touching Baby Rose was a problem because of the previous paradox. A time traveler can indeed meet themselves like Kazran does without there being massive issues - it would only be an issue if there had also been a paradox similar to Father's Day.
This here. There have been examples of the doctor meeting himself in classic who and it's not an issue, but in the Fathers Day it was Pete that was the catalyst for the Reapers. Rose holding herself would not have cause any issues but the weakened timeline couldn't contain the additional paradox. Perhaps as a visual example of this is in Army of Ghosts when the doctor shatters a glass panel using his sonic. As it's laminated it holds in place, but the Doctor makes a point about "letting too much through", then taps the glass which collapses under its own weight.
To: Mark - I am fortunate to have watched this series from the very first episode in 1963, so I am cognisant with speculation regarding the Doctor's experience with Time. What perplexed myself was, in the introductory episode, 'Rose', the huge insinuation and complete lack of follow-up, that The Doctor had quite possibly previously gifted Rose a bicycle for Christmas suggesting he knew of her previously. To myself it demonstrated a mis-match between viewer's, in particular new viewers future expectations, and the script which I find puzzling considering the producers familiarity with the series. To a new viewer who is quite possibly looking for 'rules of time-travel' , why even add that line for it to be superfluous to the course of events. I am not offering criticism of that excerpt, but curiosity and surprise as to the reasoning of the scriptwriter.
@@petermoody6147 The Doctor giving Rose a bicycle for Christmas was something that was mentioned in The Doctor Dances, which was nine episodes into the first series, not in the very first episode.
I’m glad you’ve already recorded ahead before uploading these. There’s always one person who spoils things. They always say “not to spoil anything butt” and then they proceed too spoil things
That ship is a really cool detail, I know you’re ahead now so I can say but the ship in the lodger is an abandoned Silent ship with no pilot because all the silence were killed in 1969. So it’s just been abandoned since then trying to find a pilot to take it off the earth. I love how this was a detail before we’d even gotten any context for it. Shows how clever Moffat was when writing series 5 and 6
The rules for time travel aren't ever strict in this universe. The situation in Father's Day was already fragile as Rose saved her father so her interacting with her past self would've been a paradox and the Reapers feed off of paradoxes and stuff like that which is why that allowed one of them to enter the church. Normally you could interact with yourself in the past, as the Doctor meets himself loads of times. NuWho came up with the 'fixed points' rule (I don't ever recall it in classic who or Big Finish) like Pompeii or Waters of Mars that only Time Lords seem to know about, but other events can changed in some ways, either completely or just a little. That's the only rule NuWho seems to stick with. And you were right when I think were saying that River and the Doctor are meeting each other in exactly direct opposites, it does jump around a little bit, but it mostly sticks to the going in opposite directions.
In the instance of Father's Day, Rose created a paradox by changing her own past by preventing her father's death. It was actually the second time the Doctor and Rose went back in time to the moment Rose's father died so that was another paradox. The massive change Rose made to her own timeline resulted in the Reapers appearing. After everyone had sought shelter in the church, the Reapers were unable to get to them, but the Doctor warned Rose that a further paradox, such as holding herself as a baby, would enable the Reapers to materialize inside the church. The implication is, Rose meeting her past self wouldn't be a big enough paradox on its own to summon the Reapers, it was just that, on top of all the other, much bigger paradoxes, made a bad situation worse. Hope that makes sense and clarifies things for you. Well spotted that the prototype time machine from The Lodger reappears here. A lot of people seem to miss that.
When I tell you this gave me nightmares, I mean it. I thought the weeping angels were the scariest then these guys came along and I jumped behind that sofa quicker than ever before😂
Series 6 is SO amazing to me. Blew my mind, especially these first couple episodes. It was so ... different, and almost like a movie, and I just LOVE this trio/ quartet
As always I really enjoyed your reaction video! Thank you! This episode was definitely a mindbender. You're so used to the doctor not dying until the very end of a season and you start off with it. On one hand you're like..noooo. Too soon I know this show. But on the other hand you're thinking...uh oh....I KNOW this show. lol. Eccelston only had one season so it's always with in the realm of possibilities. Martha and Donna didn't last very long either tbh. But it keeps the show fresh. You just can never be too sure. I'm just glad to see you posting Dr Who reactions again.
This was the first Doctor Who episode I was able to catch "live" (thank you satellite TV) and it is one of my favorite season openers. Amy, Rory, River, and the Doctor make such an amazing team and I adore them. :) Plus this is set smack in the middle of the Space Race, which is one of my favorite bits of history, so bonus points there. Can't wait to see your reaction to part 2!
Glad to see you back - love this episode - especially one of the things i really enjoyed, which you may not have seen (and I'm not suggestng you should till ep2 is done) is the 'coming soon' at the end of Ep1. Just the use of archive audio from Apollo - sends goosebumps up my spine
Everyone has favorite episodes. This is my favorite season. The whole thing! Also... on your "stick to your rules" thing....Moffatt.... not so much. Remember the "An image of an Angel becomes an Angel"? And yet, 10 had a picture of an Angel in the packet that Sally Sparrow gave him... Yeah.... Moffatt...
Josef Schiltz the angels in blink were like scavengers, they were weak and so sent people back in time to strengthen themselves. The angels in the Byzantium weren’t weak so they had no reason to send the soldiers back in time, they just killed them instead.
One thing to point out is that Baby Rose hadn't travelled in the TARDIS. Before being in contact with his older self, Kazran had just stepped from the TARDIS into his own future. Maybe residual Artron energy from the TARDIS has something to do with it, sealing or hiding the wound in time.
15:45 I think the difference with *Father's Day* was the situation that they were in at the time. I'm pretty sure he points out that it would be bad to touch the baby _specifically because of what was happening _*_already._* The fact that they had already crossed their own timeline, and she had changed the course of events by saving him when he should have died, the *Doctor* said that things were *already very fragile* with those creatures floating around. And so she shouldn't touch the baby. *Edit:* I think you might appreciate what *Joe Jennings,* art director & production designer on some _STAR TREK_ films, has to say in this short video (about 3 minutes, I think), about consistency in sci fi ─ ruclips.net/video/1jSTMkXqz8o/видео.html [It seems to essentially be somewhat of an _in-your-face_ critique, regarding that element (or lack therein) with the new *Star Trek Picard* show.]
The danger in series was maybe because it was Rose specifically, trying to mess with her own timeline? The Doctor had warned her already, at the beginning of Father's Day, that they could not come back to the same time again. And it was exacerbated by the presence of those time creatures, I think. But it might also be a ball that the joggler let roll...
My personal head canon is that as a time lord, the doctor knows when crossing your own timeline is okay, and when it might not be, and that any time someone does so, there is a chance that it could damage the fabric of reality, but it doesn’t always do so... I also think that as a time lord, the doctor knows how to try and prevent these disasters, for example, what he can and can’t do while in these situation... the time lords always considered crossing paths with your own past or future self to be “blasphemy” against the structure of reality, yet in dire circumstances, they have been known in the classic series to personally summon past incarnations of the Doctor to assist his future selves under their supervision... so I don’t see the rules as “things that can’t physically happen, or else bad things will happen” as much as they are “things that should be avoided if at all possible, because they pose the threat of causing bad things to happen”....
Certain events are considered to be vital points in time and cannot be changed, making them fixed, while most tend to be flexible and can be altered in some shape or way (think Waters of Mars being a fixed point in time). Though with time travel altering things in the past, it can get complicated very easily trying to judge what is and isn't fixed
Listening to what you are saying about figuring it out, dont even try! By this stage you will be well into the series and the beauty of this series and beyond you can guess all you like but you will never see it coming, the punch line that is!! Like you I like to figure things out, but this series I just got on the bus and enjoyed the ride!! No regrets in doing so!!
In Classic Era they had something called , Blimmovitch Limitation effect, a dangerous energy discharge will result if two temporal versions of the same person come into contact. Canon changes from series to series, writer to writer. Fathers Day was very much outside the usual canon anyway. Best not to think about it
Its really interesting your commentary on the rules of time and estabkished rules in the show. My own view of it is that doctor who as a whole tends to dip in and out of the many different rule sets, paradoxes and theories. The number one rule is to not think about it too much as youll never solve every time contrdication. The different show runner also treat time differently. Moffat doesnt always refer back to established rules from davies era (season 1-4). Classic who also featured a few stories with character timestreams crossing over. Loving the good doses of screentime river gets. Moffat created the character, which is why weve seen much more of here since hes running the show from the start of season 5.
This season has the best trailer of all seasons in my opinion, the music if from a Scandinavian band I think and it marries to the images perfectly... it still gives me goose bumps
The reason that didn't happen is because Rose's paradox was a triple paradox. By saving her father, she prevented herself from going back in time 3 times.
Hello. I love your reactions ! So, if you want, you'll can see (well...sort of. You'll can hear) tennant and kingston interact in a doctor who audio adventure. In november Big finish will put online this one www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/doctor-who-the-tenth-doctor-and-river-song-2273 (and I'm soo excited about that !)
Rule Number 1: The Doctor lies. As I understand it, in Fathers day, the monsters weren't able to break down very old things. So time has some effect on what they can do. So probably the Doctor says to Rose not to touch her infant self, because it would break down barriers for the monsters, which it did. So I think he just said it would destroy the universe, to make absolutely clear, what Rose should not do, without having to explain too much ….😁
I'm only on Series 8 myself - got to be careful about clicking on Doctor Who fanvids in case of spoilers. That's what I get for not watching TV- plus then I'd get full episodes, not the cut-down DVD versions.
I like to think the creature in the bathroom just wanted to give Amy a message, but that annoying woman kept interrupting and he couldn’t take it anymore.
The reapers only appeared in father’s day bc pete should have died, rose touching the baby wouldn’t have been a big deal otherwise but it just caused more damage to what was already damaged. If anything, what I don’t understand is why the reapers didn’t appear in the waters of mars as the doctor saved two people that should have died 🤔
If you are saying this because of her *Father's Day* reference, I think the difference with _that_ was the situation that they were in at the time. I'm pretty sure he points out that it would be bad to touch the baby _specifically because of what was happening _*_already._* The fact that they had already crossed their own timeline, and she had changed the course of events by saving him when he should have died, the *Doctor* said that things were *already very fragile* with those creatures floating around. And so she shouldn't touch the baby.
I personally think that in Doctor Who you should try to find the rules that the current showrunner created. Because if you try to take in account what Russell T Davies or the producers of the classic series were doing, there''ll be endless plot holes. I feel it's better to analyze the rules that the current writer created.
We love Doctor Who for the fact it doesn't take itself overly seriously, And like you said, as such you can lean into each writer and their ideas as the seasons progress !!
Alex Kingston as River Song My favriote Character in New Who Liz in old who Hello Sweetie When you run with the Doctor, it feels like it'll never end. As I said on the Dance floor You might want to find something to hang on to. But however hard you try you can't run forever. Can I trust you? If you like but where's the fun in that. Everybody knows that everybody dies and nobody knows it like the Doctor. Dalek Cybermen Sontatrent Tranitus Slitheen Choloniun Nestine Dravin Sycorax Hymogoblin Zygon Atraxy Droconiun Their all for the Pandorica. But I do think that all the sky's of all the worlds might just turn dark if he ever for one moment accpeted it. I am River Song check Your Records Again. Everybody knows that everybody dies. Spoilers. But not every day. Not today. You and Me. Time and Space. You watch us Run Now and then, every once in a very long while, every day in a million days, when the wind stands fair, and the Doctor comes to call everybody lives. Sweet Dreams Everyone.
You can tell the budget was increased for this season of Doctor Who. The team were flown to Utah to film near Monument Valley and Lake Powell, Firefly veterans were flown in, and there are more Arizonan scenes appearing in Part 2. The director tried his hardest to make the episode look as culturally American as possible, throwing in the Stetson hat, an Edsel, and the yellow bus. However, the diner wasn't an American location, it's actually a US themed diner located in Mermaid Quay, Cardiff Bay. Good spot recognising the Aickman Road Console reused from "The Lodger". This is something I myself only noticed one week ago. Watch out for a reference to Aickman Road when editing Part 2.
In Father's Day, the big problem wasn't Rose meeting baby Rose. It was when they touched. I could be wrong but I don't thing the 2 Kasrans (sp?) Touched in the Christmas episode. As for the Doctor, his timeline as a Time Lord is so messed up that I don't think a mere human--even one like River-- can determine when it's okay to give him tore knowledge.
Your opinion is not fact, it is only your opinion and giving that opinion to someone who just began series 6 is the move of someone who has an agenda to fill. So good on you for exercising your right to give an opinion, well done on your part, you should be very proud of yourself. Have a great day.
I remember they made a big deal in the marketing for this episode because it was being filmed in the US. Turns out they just meant they were doing some quick scenes in the most desolate part of Utah.
No, you’re right, River and the Doctor’s personal timelines are not consistently travelling in opposite directions, otherwise it would be impossible for them to ever compare diaries. Steven Moffat tripped over his own logic there, in order to give some emotional impact to River’s story in this episode, but later admitted that the logic didn’t hold up and that the Doctor and River’s encounters had to be more of a temporal jumble. A few other established rules are also occasionally flexible in Moffat’s hands, such as past selves having to avoid physical contact with future selves (apparently it “shorts out the time differential” or, in other words, causes a bit of an explosion), but since classic Who it has generally been seen as a bad idea. Timelords seem to be immune to this effect, although there's a general rule that the younger version will not be able to remember an encounter with a future self once they are both returned to their proper timelines.
I often hear the argument, that the Reapers should show up every time someone touches her/his younger self. We see that many times, not only in the cases of Rose and Kazran, but also Amy and of course the Doctor himself (sooooo many times). The catalyst for the Reapers appearing in Father's Day in the first place was the altering of a fixed point. Following that rule, they should have appeared in e.g. A Christmas Carol, The Big Bang or Turn Left as well, but not because Kazran hugged himself or Amy patted Amelia. Rose picking up herself in the church just destabilized whatever kept the Reapers out before (Oh noooo, the Paradox is too much!!). You could argue, that they just show up for the specific event of someone being saved, that should have stayed dead for some cosmic reason, which hasn't happened too often on this show. I'm sure, I'm missing some crucial examples, but I could accept this explaination. But by all means, if the writers somehow regain their mojo in the future, go ahead and give us the Reapers in another episode (just not simply for nostalgia's sake).
It's really unfortunate that Father's Day is the first timey wimey story of the new series. It pretty much ignores how time travel rules worked in classic who and has itself been ignored by every new who writer since (thankfully imo!). In fact the only thing it really gets right is that meeting yourself is a really bad idea - although not necessarily disastrous. Time lords are NOT exempt from this problem at all. However they do have a small defence against universe ending paradoxes which is that only the oldest (i.e. most recent) version is able to remember what happens if they meet themselves. This means that the resolution to Time Crash doesn't work at all. You have two choices with that one. You can say its because the TARDIS, "is in a state of temporal trace." i.e. It works because the writer says it does, or you can say that Time Crash, lovely as it is, doesn't really count because it's a charity special. There have been lots of charity bits over the years, and they generally don't count (or make much sense), so I tend to go with option 2. You can go straight from the end of season three to Voyage of the Damned without it.
Man, that "Father's day" episode really screwed-up the rules for everyone. It contradicts not only all of the old canon as to what happens when you interact with past self, but also makes all the new viewers keep being surprised that the universe isn't collapsing when you do that.
Wait... is it just me, or doesn't she always says "Hey everyone" instead of "Hey guys." This is such a useless comment, that I'm just confused by it XD
There’s a very good reason why River Song has “tummy ache” but it links in with some major spoilers surrounding her. Keep watching all (mostly) will be revealed.
I love how much you appreciate Eleven and River's dynamic.
I'd basically summarise it as, "The Rules of Time are whatever the writer needs them to be that week"
You can't rewrite history, not one line. Apart from the times that you can.
As far as I can surmise in Doctor Who there are some things that can be changed that will not cause problems with time but there are also fixed points in time which cannot be changed. Love your reviews.
I think fix points happen more when your a time traveler and it part of the reason you are there, like rose going back twice to her father
Or could just be totally malleable based on the needs of the writer. Best. Leo.
Best summed up by wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey. 😊
My personal theory: a fixed point in time is when there is written, photographic proof of the event. For instance, in the episode "Waters Of Mars", the death of the main astronaut is a fixed point. it will always happen, no matter what you do. The Doctor, in his hubris, tries to mess with the laws of time by saving her, but she ends up killing herself. Still on the day that her death was reported. just in a different way than before the Doctor's intervention.
My own kooky interpretation is that the Laws of Time are literally *laws*, made by the Time Lords, rather than physical laws like gravity.
I reckon a fixed point is something the Time Lords *decided* should be fixed, so that the universe would stay reasonably stable. Like one of those old syndicated kids' cartoons in which you can show the episodes in any order except for certain 'tentpoles' like the premiere and finale. The rest of history can wibble-wobble in flux due to time traveller shenanigans, but everyone's agreed certain events should be pinned to the wall to stop the whole serpentine mess collapsing. Otherwise history could change so drastically that the Time Lords never existed in the first place, or Teletubbies eat the universe before it's a day old, or whatever.
This would also explain why that Dalek in the Waters of Mars didn't zap young Adelaide. It *could* have, since fixed points are just things everyone agrees not to mess with. But it knew history would fly off the wall and thrash around so much that the Daleks themselves might be prevented from existing... which would throw a bit of a spanner into their plan to reality-bomb the universe a few hours later. "NICE--JOB--BREAKING--IT--DALEK."
But I'm just a cat, so what do I know.
River: “Doctor. please tell me you know who I am.”
10th Doctor: “Who are you?”
“The Legs, The Nose and Mrs Robinson.”
RE the Father's Day/Christmas Carol questions... In Father's Day Rose traveled back in time (Rose 1) to see her father before he died. She then traveled back to the same moment again (Rose 2), but this time she changed what happened, which meant that Rose 1 never ran off crying and came back a second time to become Rose 2. That created a paradox, which caused the Reapers to appear and start killing people to fix the wound (kill Pete). Rose touching Baby Rose was another paradox - because the same person can't be in the same place twice basically - which allowed the Reapers access to where it happened, inside the church. Rose touching Baby Rose was a problem because of the previous paradox. A time traveler can indeed meet themselves like Kazran does without there being massive issues - it would only be an issue if there had also been a paradox similar to Father's Day.
This here.
There have been examples of the doctor meeting himself in classic who and it's not an issue, but in the Fathers Day it was Pete that was the catalyst for the Reapers. Rose holding herself would not have cause any issues but the weakened timeline couldn't contain the additional paradox.
Perhaps as a visual example of this is in Army of Ghosts when the doctor shatters a glass panel using his sonic. As it's laminated it holds in place, but the Doctor makes a point about "letting too much through", then taps the glass which collapses under its own weight.
To: Mark - I am fortunate to have watched this series from the very first episode in 1963, so I am cognisant with speculation regarding the Doctor's experience with Time. What perplexed myself was, in the introductory episode, 'Rose', the huge insinuation and complete lack of follow-up, that The Doctor had quite possibly previously gifted Rose a bicycle for Christmas suggesting he knew of her previously. To myself it demonstrated a mis-match between viewer's, in particular new viewers future expectations, and the script which I find puzzling considering the producers familiarity with the series.
To a new viewer who is quite possibly looking for 'rules of time-travel' , why even add that line for it to be superfluous to the course of events.
I am not offering criticism of that excerpt, but curiosity and surprise as to the reasoning of the scriptwriter.
@@petermoody6147 The Doctor giving Rose a bicycle for Christmas was something that was mentioned in The Doctor Dances, which was nine episodes into the first series, not in the very first episode.
I’m glad you’ve already recorded ahead before uploading these. There’s always one person who spoils things. They always say
“not to spoil anything butt”
and then they proceed too spoil things
I think it’s fun that they got father and son to play the same character. Kinda like cousins playing the same character Amy/Amelia at different ages.
That ship is a really cool detail, I know you’re ahead now so I can say but the ship in the lodger is an abandoned Silent ship with no pilot because all the silence were killed in 1969. So it’s just been abandoned since then trying to find a pilot to take it off the earth. I love how this was a detail before we’d even gotten any context for it. Shows how clever Moffat was when writing series 5 and 6
The rules for time travel aren't ever strict in this universe. The situation in Father's Day was already fragile as Rose saved her father so her interacting with her past self would've been a paradox and the Reapers feed off of paradoxes and stuff like that which is why that allowed one of them to enter the church. Normally you could interact with yourself in the past, as the Doctor meets himself loads of times. NuWho came up with the 'fixed points' rule (I don't ever recall it in classic who or Big Finish) like Pompeii or Waters of Mars that only Time Lords seem to know about, but other events can changed in some ways, either completely or just a little. That's the only rule NuWho seems to stick with. And you were right when I think were saying that River and the Doctor are meeting each other in exactly direct opposites, it does jump around a little bit, but it mostly sticks to the going in opposite directions.
"what you think you can just shoot me?"
"THEYRE AMERICANS!!!"
"dont shoot definitely dont shoot"
In the instance of Father's Day, Rose created a paradox by changing her own past by preventing her father's death. It was actually the second time the Doctor and Rose went back in time to the moment Rose's father died so that was another paradox. The massive change Rose made to her own timeline resulted in the Reapers appearing. After everyone had sought shelter in the church, the Reapers were unable to get to them, but the Doctor warned Rose that a further paradox, such as holding herself as a baby, would enable the Reapers to materialize inside the church. The implication is, Rose meeting her past self wouldn't be a big enough paradox on its own to summon the Reapers, it was just that, on top of all the other, much bigger paradoxes, made a bad situation worse. Hope that makes sense and clarifies things for you. Well spotted that the prototype time machine from The Lodger reappears here. A lot of people seem to miss that.
The setting, Camera work and whole feel within the first half of this episode is just too good ! One of your favourites ! Great video !
Nice that the new Doctor Who villains have their own emoji. 😱
When I tell you this gave me nightmares, I mean it. I thought the weeping angels were the scariest then these guys came along and I jumped behind that sofa quicker than ever before😂
Series 6 is SO amazing to me. Blew my mind, especially these first couple episodes. It was so ... different, and almost like a movie, and I just LOVE this trio/ quartet
As always I really enjoyed your reaction video! Thank you! This episode was definitely a mindbender. You're so used to the doctor not dying until the very end of a season and you start off with it. On one hand you're like..noooo. Too soon I know this show. But on the other hand you're thinking...uh oh....I KNOW this show. lol. Eccelston only had one season so it's always with in the realm of possibilities. Martha and Donna didn't last very long either tbh.
But it keeps the show fresh. You just can never be too sure. I'm just glad to see you posting Dr Who reactions again.
Very true ! What a premier !!
This was the first Doctor Who episode I was able to catch "live" (thank you satellite TV) and it is one of my favorite season openers. Amy, Rory, River, and the Doctor make such an amazing team and I adore them. :) Plus this is set smack in the middle of the Space Race, which is one of my favorite bits of history, so bonus points there.
Can't wait to see your reaction to part 2!
Glad to see you back - love this episode - especially one of the things i really enjoyed, which you may not have seen (and I'm not suggestng you should till ep2 is done) is the 'coming soon' at the end of Ep1. Just the use of archive audio from Apollo - sends goosebumps up my spine
7:50, "Hello, Benjamin!" "Premonitions are Memories of the Future".
Season 6, no looking back! Hope you have a clear head!! This is gonna be fun 😀
Everyone has favorite episodes. This is my favorite season. The whole thing!
Also... on your "stick to your rules" thing....Moffatt.... not so much. Remember the "An image of an Angel becomes an Angel"? And yet, 10 had a picture of an Angel in the packet that Sally Sparrow gave him... Yeah.... Moffatt...
And, where did the touch of one angel, that sent the Doctor and Martha back to 1969 come from?
@@Ph0ebl3s Well, yes.
Josef Schiltz the angels in blink were like scavengers, they were weak and so sent people back in time to strengthen themselves. The angels in the Byzantium weren’t weak so they had no reason to send the soldiers back in time, they just killed them instead.
The old man on the beach is British TV icon the Late W. Morgan Sheppard. See if you can spot his son also in this story.
One thing to point out is that Baby Rose hadn't travelled in the TARDIS. Before being in contact with his older self, Kazran had just stepped from the TARDIS into his own future. Maybe residual Artron energy from the TARDIS has something to do with it, sealing or hiding the wound in time.
Love this 2 parter. It leave you with a lot of questions, but they are all answered and it’s worth it
Finally! I've been waiting for you to react to this season SOOO MUCH!
Now this is where it gets complicated. :)
Nice.
15:45 I think the difference with *Father's Day* was the situation that they were in at the time. I'm pretty sure he points out that it would be bad to touch the baby _specifically because of what was happening _*_already._*
The fact that they had already crossed their own timeline, and she had changed the course of events by saving him when he should have died, the *Doctor* said that things were *already very fragile* with those creatures floating around. And so she shouldn't touch the baby.
*Edit:*
I think you might appreciate what *Joe Jennings,* art director & production designer on some _STAR TREK_ films, has to say in this short video (about 3 minutes, I think), about consistency in sci fi ─ ruclips.net/video/1jSTMkXqz8o/видео.html
[It seems to essentially be somewhat of an _in-your-face_ critique, regarding that element (or lack therein) with the new *Star Trek Picard* show.]
Feels like ages since your last Who video, glad to see you pop up! Looking forward to this series :)
Absolutely love your channel and your love of Doctor Who! Thank you for sharing :)
The danger in series was maybe because it was Rose specifically, trying to mess with her own timeline? The Doctor had warned her already, at the beginning of Father's Day, that they could not come back to the same time again. And it was exacerbated by the presence of those time creatures, I think. But it might also be a ball that the joggler let roll...
I really. really miss Matt Smith.... He was "MY" Doctor.......
Be prepared for a wild ride that’s all I’m gonna say
The old version of Canton Everett Delaware III (William Morgan Sheppard) is the father of the younger version (Mark Sheppard)
Great to have you back. Missed the laughter 😊💕
9:35: Oh River Song, you bad girl!!😁
11:20: Oh River Song, you sorrowful girl....😢
11:35: Remember 'The Lodger'? Yes it's the same.
My personal head canon is that as a time lord, the doctor knows when crossing your own timeline is okay, and when it might not be, and that any time someone does so, there is a chance that it could damage the fabric of reality, but it doesn’t always do so... I also think that as a time lord, the doctor knows how to try and prevent these disasters, for example, what he can and can’t do while in these situation... the time lords always considered crossing paths with your own past or future self to be “blasphemy” against the structure of reality, yet in dire circumstances, they have been known in the classic series to personally summon past incarnations of the Doctor to assist his future selves under their supervision... so I don’t see the rules as “things that can’t physically happen, or else bad things will happen” as much as they are “things that should be avoided if at all possible, because they pose the threat of causing bad things to happen”....
Certain events are considered to be vital points in time and cannot be changed, making them fixed, while most tend to be flexible and can be altered in some shape or way (think Waters of Mars being a fixed point in time). Though with time travel altering things in the past, it can get complicated very easily trying to judge what is and isn't fixed
Listening to what you are saying about figuring it out, dont even try! By this stage you will be well into the series and the beauty of this series and beyond you can guess all you like but you will never see it coming, the punch line that is!! Like you I like to figure things out, but this series I just got on the bus and enjoyed the ride!! No regrets in doing so!!
In Classic Era they had something called , Blimmovitch Limitation effect, a dangerous energy discharge will result if two temporal versions of the same person come into contact. Canon changes from series to series, writer to writer. Fathers Day was very much outside the usual canon anyway. Best not to think about it
Its really interesting your commentary on the rules of time and estabkished rules in the show.
My own view of it is that doctor who as a whole tends to dip in and out of the many different rule sets, paradoxes and theories. The number one rule is to not think about it too much as youll never solve every time contrdication.
The different show runner also treat time differently. Moffat doesnt always refer back to established rules from davies era (season 1-4). Classic who also featured a few stories with character timestreams crossing over.
Loving the good doses of screentime river gets. Moffat created the character, which is why weve seen much more of here since hes running the show from the start of season 5.
This season has the best trailer of all seasons in my opinion, the music if from a Scandinavian band I think and it marries to the images perfectly... it still gives me goose bumps
The reason that didn't happen is because Rose's paradox was a triple paradox. By saving her father, she prevented herself from going back in time 3 times.
These aliens are so creepy I love them
Ok you really cant leave this one. You have to wat h the next asap. Mind blowing!
RTD: Sets the rules
Moffat: Breaks the rules... (spoilers ahead)
Chibnall: Hold my beer
The guy after Chibnal: ''Show runner victorious!''
Hello. I love your reactions ! So, if you want, you'll can see (well...sort of. You'll can hear) tennant and kingston interact in a doctor who audio adventure. In november Big finish will put online this one www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/doctor-who-the-tenth-doctor-and-river-song-2273 (and I'm soo excited about that !)
Rule Number 1: The Doctor lies. As I understand it, in Fathers day, the monsters weren't able to break down very old things. So time has some effect on what they can do. So probably the Doctor says to Rose not to touch her infant self, because it would break down barriers for the monsters, which it did. So I think he just said it would destroy the universe, to make absolutely clear, what Rose should not do, without having to explain too much ….😁
as far as having their weapons out, only the secret service can have guns when potus is there
The older Delaware is the youngers real life father.
I'm only on Series 8 myself - got to be careful about clicking on Doctor Who fanvids in case of spoilers. That's what I get for not watching TV- plus then I'd get full episodes, not the cut-down DVD versions.
Series 6 overall is like my 2nd favourite season!
amazing season premiere. could be the best.
If you're a big River fan, welcome to one of the best seasons!! (Or at least my favorites...)
Might not want to give hints about future episodes.
I like to think the creature in the bathroom just wanted to give Amy a message, but that annoying woman kept interrupting and he couldn’t take it anymore.
The reapers only appeared in father’s day bc pete should have died, rose touching the baby wouldn’t have been a big deal otherwise but it just caused more damage to what was already damaged. If anything, what I don’t understand is why the reapers didn’t appear in the waters of mars as the doctor saved two people that should have died 🤔
Possibly the best season this.
I forgot Crowley was in this. By the way one of my favorite seasons overall.
Yay finally your back watchin who!👍
Yeah!!!!! I adore this episode, what a way to start a season
Any chance of 2nd reaction after end of 6th series?
Hi it’s grant from Philly! I think you should react to the curse of chucky scary movie! Your reaction is brilliant!
Looking forward to a episode you probably have past by now. All the info was there wasn't it.
Cannon is always a problem with long running series that pass the candle to so many different writers.
If you are saying this because of her *Father's Day* reference, I think the difference with _that_ was the situation that they were in at the time. I'm pretty sure he points out that it would be bad to touch the baby _specifically because of what was happening _*_already._*
The fact that they had already crossed their own timeline, and she had changed the course of events by saving him when he should have died, the *Doctor* said that things were *already very fragile* with those creatures floating around. And so she shouldn't touch the baby.
I personally think that in Doctor Who you should try to find the rules that the current showrunner created. Because if you try to take in account what Russell T Davies or the producers of the classic series were doing, there''ll be endless plot holes. I feel it's better to analyze the rules that the current writer created.
We love Doctor Who for the fact it doesn't take itself overly seriously, And like you said, as such you can lean into each writer and their ideas as the seasons progress !!
Season 6 is properly mind bendy. 😜
Alex Kingston as River Song My favriote Character in New Who Liz in old who Hello Sweetie When you run with the Doctor, it feels like it'll never end. As I said on the Dance floor You might want to find something to hang on to. But however hard you try you can't run forever. Can I trust you? If you like but where's the fun in that. Everybody knows that everybody dies and nobody knows it like the Doctor. Dalek Cybermen Sontatrent Tranitus Slitheen Choloniun Nestine Dravin Sycorax Hymogoblin Zygon Atraxy Droconiun Their all for the Pandorica. But I do think that all the sky's of all the worlds might just turn dark if he ever for one moment accpeted it. I am River Song check Your Records Again. Everybody knows that everybody dies. Spoilers. But not every day. Not today. You and Me. Time and Space. You watch us Run Now and then, every once in a very long while, every day in a million days, when the wind stands fair, and the Doctor comes to call everybody lives. Sweet Dreams Everyone.
The 'aliens' in this episode are very men in black oriented, black suits and can't remember them
You can tell the budget was increased for this season of Doctor Who. The team were flown to Utah to film near Monument Valley and Lake Powell, Firefly veterans were flown in, and there are more Arizonan scenes appearing in Part 2. The director tried his hardest to make the episode look as culturally American as possible, throwing in the Stetson hat, an Edsel, and the yellow bus.
However, the diner wasn't an American location, it's actually a US themed diner located in Mermaid Quay, Cardiff Bay.
Good spot recognising the Aickman Road Console reused from "The Lodger". This is something I myself only noticed one week ago. Watch out for a reference to Aickman Road when editing Part 2.
In Father's Day, the big problem wasn't Rose meeting baby Rose. It was when they touched. I could be wrong but I don't thing the 2 Kasrans (sp?) Touched in the Christmas episode. As for the Doctor, his timeline as a Time Lord is so messed up that I don't think a mere human--even one like River-- can determine when it's okay to give him tore knowledge.
The two Kazrans definitely touched, they even hugged at one point
By the time we’re watching this, Series 12 is long over. It didn’t end well.
Your opinion is not fact, it is only your opinion and giving that opinion to someone who just began series 6 is the move of someone who has an agenda to fill.
So good on you for exercising your right to give an opinion, well done on your part, you should be very proud of yourself.
Have a great day.
Best first part in ages, second part, fantastic.
I remember they made a big deal in the marketing for this episode because it was being filmed in the US.
Turns out they just meant they were doing some quick scenes in the most desolate part of Utah.
No, you’re right, River and the Doctor’s personal timelines are not consistently travelling in opposite directions, otherwise it would be impossible for them to ever compare diaries. Steven Moffat tripped over his own logic there, in order to give some emotional impact to River’s story in this episode, but later admitted that the logic didn’t hold up and that the Doctor and River’s encounters had to be more of a temporal jumble.
A few other established rules are also occasionally flexible in Moffat’s hands, such as past selves having to avoid physical contact with future selves (apparently it “shorts out the time differential” or, in other words, causes a bit of an explosion), but since classic Who it has generally been seen as a bad idea. Timelords seem to be immune to this effect, although there's a general rule that the younger version will not be able to remember an encounter with a future self once they are both returned to their proper timelines.
this is a great season. i fell off during half way in series 10, it lost its touch. river is always fun.
I often hear the argument, that the Reapers should show up every time someone touches her/his younger self.
We see that many times, not only in the cases of Rose and Kazran, but also Amy and of course the Doctor himself (sooooo many times).
The catalyst for the Reapers appearing in Father's Day in the first place was the altering of a fixed point.
Following that rule, they should have appeared in e.g. A Christmas Carol, The Big Bang or Turn Left as well, but not because Kazran hugged himself or Amy patted Amelia.
Rose picking up herself in the church just destabilized whatever kept the Reapers out before (Oh noooo, the Paradox is too much!!).
You could argue, that they just show up for the specific event of someone being saved, that should have stayed dead for some cosmic reason, which hasn't happened too often on this show.
I'm sure, I'm missing some crucial examples, but I could accept this explaination.
But by all means, if the writers somehow regain their mojo in the future, go ahead and give us the Reapers in another episode (just not simply for nostalgia's sake).
Come to think about it, they definitely should have killed Mia and Yuri in Waters of Mars...
It's really unfortunate that Father's Day is the first timey wimey story of the new series. It pretty much ignores how time travel rules worked in classic who and has itself been ignored by every new who writer since (thankfully imo!). In fact the only thing it really gets right is that meeting yourself is a really bad idea - although not necessarily disastrous.
Time lords are NOT exempt from this problem at all. However they do have a small defence against universe ending paradoxes which is that only the oldest (i.e. most recent) version is able to remember what happens if they meet themselves. This means that the resolution to Time Crash doesn't work at all. You have two choices with that one. You can say its because the TARDIS, "is in a state of temporal trace." i.e. It works because the writer says it does, or you can say that Time Crash, lovely as it is, doesn't really count because it's a charity special. There have been lots of charity bits over the years, and they generally don't count (or make much sense), so I tend to go with option 2. You can go straight from the end of season three to Voyage of the Damned without it.
Man, that "Father's day" episode really screwed-up the rules for everyone. It contradicts not only all of the old canon as to what happens when you interact with past self, but also makes all the new viewers keep being surprised that the universe isn't collapsing when you do that.
It didn’t mess up the old canon tho, as far as I know the Doctor hasn’t gone back in time and his companion saved someone from dying and changed time
Remind me. How long since your last Doctor Who Reaction Video? Is it a MONTH? I thought you had died from Covid-19.
Wait... is it just me, or doesn't she always says "Hey everyone" instead of "Hey guys."
This is such a useless comment, that I'm just confused by it XD
There’s a very good reason why River Song has “tummy ache” but it links in with some major spoilers surrounding her. Keep watching all (mostly) will be revealed.
Why say stuff like this? Just let her watch and pick up on stuff for herself
I have serious concerns that you don't know what a hat-trick is. This may become critical in your future. Best. Leo.