What Nate said was 100% on point. Feinstein is a public official and isn't showing up to work. She should step down with grace, instead of gripping onto power until her last breath.
Think about it. She's a leftist. Leftists are trying to run every aspect of our lives. It's in the nature of a leftist to hang on to power because of their greed for it.
they call it "beef" and "pork" because in medieval england, the nobles spoke french, and only interacted with animals as food, so food words for animal meat are from french roots. the peasants spoke old english, and dealt with the livestock, so words for animals use the germanic roots.
Great and wide-ranging episode! I agree Sen. Feinstein should give a clear timeframe for her return, and if she is unable to do so, she should step down immediately. Alex and Nate both make good points starting at 35:27 on why the opposing arguments are a bit disingenuous. In addition, there are scenarios in which Feinstein’s vote might be crucial not just for confirming judges but also in the debt ceiling fight. So if she’s not back in the next month or so, her position would certainly become untenable.
I feel like there's a big difference between "would you eat this animal?" And "is it morally acceptable for people to eat this animal?". It felt like everyone slipped into their own dietary preferences rather than discussing what they perceive as acceptable.
Exactly. If pushed, most people would concede that having a moral objection to eating dog meat when you are a-okay with eating pig meat is ethically unjustifiable, assuming similar standards of animal welfare. That doesn't mean many people would actually want to eat dog meat, given a choice. It's also possible to think something is generally morally unacceptable whilst living with the fact that most people don't agree. I don't eat meat at all, I do think its morally unacceptable, but I get that I live in a society where most people are meat-eaters.
No vegans or vegetarians on the panel so the discussion is lacking. Chickens and cows are smart and have feelings and would rather live out their lives. The animal agriculture industry is brutal, inhumane and totally disgusting. Animal agriculture is a major contributing factor for climate change. So much amazon forest is cleared to grow corn and soybeans for feedlots.
As an ecuadorian, I don't eat Guinea pig, and I will never. It's not that common, tho it is eaten in some parts of the country, particularly the highlands.
8:44 - in general the "food" names come from French - beef, pork, poultry, etc, while the "animal" names cow, pig, chicken, etc are Anglo-Saxon. It's thought this is from the time of the Norman invasion in 1066 when the upper classes of England were largely French-speaking nobles, and they were the only ones who actually *ate* animals. Whereas the ones who cared for the animals while they were alive were the English peasants. Therefore when it's wandering around a field it's a "cow" but if it's sitting on a noble's plate it's "boef".
@@doppelclaus "too old" compared to the median age in the US is probably the simplest hard data to reference, but practically speaking, the world is fundamentally different now than the world Pelosi grew up in. Computers are everywhere, the internet exists, the Nazis are on the rise. Ok, admittedly that last one was also a problem in the 40s, but I'm certain the 3-5 year old Pelosi didn't contribute much to the policy making that helped solve it. No, instead Pelosi and her generation have spent their entire lives and careers dismantling the systems that their parents built, piece by piece until we've found ourselves right back in pre-WWII era conditions of economic instability, oligarchic monopolies, and xenophobic nationalism taking a prominent role in public discourse. We even have a land war in Europe happening right now. History might not repeat, but it certainly rhymes.
Love the show! But dang, it always bums me out to hear so many smart people so close to understanding veganism and then say something like "I'll try anything once". I'm guessing you wouldn't eat human meat once... so close
Yeah...also when people have a flash of empathy around cats and dogs, because they _know_ they can suffer and love and have personalities, and yet manage to completely ignore the implications that has for other animals, especially mammals. The cognitive dissonance is breath-taking.
Problem with democracy. We are far to loyal to individuals instead of having the best representatives. The job of the Senate is not really to "get stuff done" it is more to be more circumspect, and patient and wise. Why didn't someone feel ok about saying how wonderful she is but there are younger stronger people who would be a better senator?
The rule is (as Lewis Carroll knew) that you should not eat anyone you've been introduced to. That clearly includes cats, dogs and horses at least in Western culture. Elephants are also included, I think. Guinea pigs I'm not so sure about.
OMG, the irony! Nate Silver was just after this podcast laid off from ABC/538. I will very much miss Nate's more rational, less tribal takes on things. He's one of my favorite political commentators, honestly, and I'll probably follow him if he joins some other podcast.
49:50 the structure of our governance system also means that it's harder to get a trifecta as a democratic governor because state houses and state Senates are distorted by district maps. Both With and without partisan gerrymandering. Very liberal states will always get a democratic governor, but won't so easily get a democratic Congress. Even some swing states can elect governors and senators for Democrats but have no chance to get the house. Land votes more than people
10:00 for me it's about most recent common ancestor. I draw that line at about 1 billion years. It's not good to eat things you share a lot of DNA with for health and ethical reasons (essentially same reason cannibalism is bad)
Barring questions of endangered species and the treatment of food animals I'd eat anything but seafood, and that only because I don't like seafood. Meat is meat. If I eat meat personally I feel I need to be willing to eat any meat from a moral perspective. And yes, I include human in there. Would I kill a human or a dog or whatever for food? No. But if it was served to me would I eat it? Yes.
My first experience with Nate Silver is this podcast and his first words are "it's cringier to not pay for twitter blue" 💀 I don't even use twitter, and even I know that's a hot take. Also at 8:00 someone talks about how people would probably draw the line at domesticated animals after mentioning horses... which are domesticated animals. Another point slightly after on how people decide based a lot on intelligence is quite interesting when you consider high animal "intelligence" isn't required for animal suffering.
Feinstein isn't the only person with reduced mental capacities in politics, in fact it's not even just an American problem tho it is definitely pronounced here and she seems to be a very strong case. Doesn't matter if it's Northern California, or Central Iowa, or wherever. Boomers pull a lot of political weight due to their population size and the fact they were better educated than younger generations and therefore more likely to vote, and boomers tend to only care about boomers, and strongly vote for other boomers. We thank them for their service, now please make room for new generations to lead. I've lived in a lot of places including Northern California, and frankly there's just nothing new under the sun wherever you move to. Places where retirees congregate, especially those predominantly white and wealthy, yeah they vote in wankers like Feinstein. You can't expect people who are living comfortably and out of touch with the worlds problem, to vote in problem solvers. They're going to vote in people who twiddle their thumbs, bc that's what they do. All we can do is focus on educating people politically, raising social awareness of these problems, and encouraging and facilitating people lawfully exercising their right to vote.
@@NickHernandez2024 Its a demographically insignificant portion of the state which until recently controlled both Senate seats and still controls the governorship. When 50% of a populace lives in the southernmost 25% off the state but the political power is concentrated in the sparsely populated but very wealthy north its a certain recipe for misrepresentation and disconnected politicians. Feinstein to a tee
Cow, goats, pigs, sheep, ducks, and chicken are domesticated animals...so saying you won't eat domesticated animals then you are saying you won't eat almost all commercially available meats
The Democratic party in a nutshell: Al Franken gets immediately excommunicated from the party for a bad joke that happened 11 years prior and Dianne Feinstein just gets to death bed her way RBG style to open her seat to Republicans. After she basically fully endorsed a surveillance state with the passage of the Patriot Act. The Republican party in a nutshell: I bought the supreme court fair and square. Why can't I keep it?!
14:00 i feel like for me, it wouldn't be linear nor logarithmic.. like, two dogs v. One person it would be up in the air for me because I care about dogs and being able to see their scared faces .... But when it reached a number high enough that the individuals were impossible to distinguish, i might feel like i don't know who could take care of them all and would start to pick the human again. If I was actually in the scenario on the ground though, I really hope the human speaks a language i know, because the communication by the dogs ... It's the sounds and the facial expressions that are swaying me .... I might end up picking the human every time. If this trolley problem could ever actually happen ....
Brain proportion to body size is more important than number of brain cells -- the bigger the animal, the more brain mass needs to be devoted to controlling the body. By that standard, dogs/pigs/cows are pretty similar and it would be consistent to eat all 3.
There is a measure called the encephalisation quotient that attempts to account for this, by basically comparing brain size against expected size for an animal of that size, with high-than-expected values correlating pretty well to intelligence, although only in mammals. It's also a bit hard to use on domesticated mammals, especially pigs, because we've bred them to have so much more mass than they would otherwise have.
she is depressed over he husbands death ya? How come she hasnt retired yet. Why drag the entire country through the dirt because of your depression. RIP her husband.
An impaired senator is less of a problem than commonly imagined. The job is big enough that not much of it is done by the one person who's nominally responsible for it. Bills are mostly drafted by staff. Senators' votes are mostly negotiated between the staff of the senator whose vote it is and the staff of senators who are pushing for or against the bill. Aside from procedural rituals, the senator him- or herself mostly has to be out raising money for the next campaign.
Those who want Feinstein to resign should think of the consequences: Does anyone believe that Governor Newsom will appoint anyone remotely progressive to the seat? 👎
What Nate said was 100% on point. Feinstein is a public official and isn't showing up to work. She should step down with grace, instead of gripping onto power until her last breath.
She shouldn't have sought reelection, and she should step down now.
Think about it. She's a leftist. Leftists are trying to run every aspect of our lives. It's in the nature of a leftist to hang on to power because of their greed for it.
they call it "beef" and "pork" because in medieval england, the nobles spoke french, and only interacted with animals as food, so food words for animal meat are from french roots. the peasants spoke old english, and dealt with the livestock, so words for animals use the germanic roots.
As a California voter who shares her politics, it's TIME.
Great and wide-ranging episode! I agree Sen. Feinstein should give a clear timeframe for her return, and if she is unable to do so, she should step down immediately. Alex and Nate both make good points starting at 35:27 on why the opposing arguments are a bit disingenuous. In addition, there are scenarios in which Feinstein’s vote might be crucial not just for confirming judges but also in the debt ceiling fight. So if she’s not back in the next month or so, her position would certainly become untenable.
Lol that aggressive “Happy Monday!” I love that subtle meme. Thank you😂
I feel like there's a big difference between "would you eat this animal?" And "is it morally acceptable for people to eat this animal?". It felt like everyone slipped into their own dietary preferences rather than discussing what they perceive as acceptable.
Exactly. If pushed, most people would concede that having a moral objection to eating dog meat when you are a-okay with eating pig meat is ethically unjustifiable, assuming similar standards of animal welfare. That doesn't mean many people would actually want to eat dog meat, given a choice.
It's also possible to think something is generally morally unacceptable whilst living with the fact that most people don't agree. I don't eat meat at all, I do think its morally unacceptable, but I get that I live in a society where most people are meat-eaters.
No vegans or vegetarians on the panel so the discussion is lacking. Chickens and cows are smart and have feelings and would rather live out their lives. The animal agriculture industry is brutal, inhumane and totally disgusting. Animal agriculture is a major contributing factor for climate change. So much amazon forest is cleared to grow corn and soybeans for feedlots.
As an ecuadorian, I don't eat Guinea pig, and I will never. It's not that common, tho it is eaten in some parts of the country, particularly the highlands.
Feinstein should do the honorable thing and resign
Last podcast with Nate and Alex? Lovely to see you all!
Did Alex get pushed out too? Wild, I can't imagine what fivethirtyeight will look like going forward.
@@no-barknoonan1335 yes Alex is out. 🥲
@@joannawarrens5117 Sad!
OMG when are you getting to Feinstein?
8:44 - in general the "food" names come from French - beef, pork, poultry, etc, while the "animal" names cow, pig, chicken, etc are Anglo-Saxon. It's thought this is from the time of the Norman invasion in 1066 when the upper classes of England were largely French-speaking nobles, and they were the only ones who actually *ate* animals. Whereas the ones who cared for the animals while they were alive were the English peasants. Therefore when it's wandering around a field it's a "cow" but if it's sitting on a noble's plate it's "boef".
Title says Diane Feinstein podcast. I'm 5 minutes in and hosts are still blithering about eating meat. Dropping
Tucker Carlson discussion at 16:30, followed by Feinstein.
If for example Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis is the guy on the boat I‘d definitely save the pig.
Please have timestamps. I really don't care about a lot of the banter.
Pelosi's objection is about self-preservation because she's also too old.
It’s not about age. It’s about still being mentally fit.
@@doppelclaus "too old" compared to the median age in the US is probably the simplest hard data to reference, but practically speaking, the world is fundamentally different now than the world Pelosi grew up in. Computers are everywhere, the internet exists, the Nazis are on the rise. Ok, admittedly that last one was also a problem in the 40s, but I'm certain the 3-5 year old Pelosi didn't contribute much to the policy making that helped solve it. No, instead Pelosi and her generation have spent their entire lives and careers dismantling the systems that their parents built, piece by piece until we've found ourselves right back in pre-WWII era conditions of economic instability, oligarchic monopolies, and xenophobic nationalism taking a prominent role in public discourse. We even have a land war in Europe happening right now. History might not repeat, but it certainly rhymes.
You're 100% right.
great episode but bring back timestamps!!
Well yes Galen there was more interesting media news this week! Love you guys!
Love the show! But dang, it always bums me out to hear so many smart people so close to understanding veganism and then say something like "I'll try anything once". I'm guessing you wouldn't eat human meat once... so close
Yeah...also when people have a flash of empathy around cats and dogs, because they _know_ they can suffer and love and have personalities, and yet manage to completely ignore the implications that has for other animals, especially mammals. The cognitive dissonance is breath-taking.
Everyone should call their senators and demand they make a public statement that Feinstein should resign
I totally vote for the tipsy 538 NYE podcast!
Everyone on the podcast has eaten Crow, why not horse?
I really hope the team shakes Nate out of his conservative bull ❤
Whoever got chosen to replace her would get a pretty big bump in 2024.
Oh my god, can we please, please please have a drunk Galen for New Years Eve!!! You'd make so many of us so very happy!
Problem with democracy. We are far to loyal to individuals instead of having the best representatives. The job of the Senate is not really to "get stuff done" it is more to be more circumspect, and patient and wise. Why didn't someone feel ok about saying how wonderful she is but there are younger stronger people who would be a better senator?
19:10 Sounds like Nate's plan is retire into the sunset and pursue his true love of professional poker.
Discrepancy between names of animals and meat on the table in English due to the Norman invasion.
If you're going to do long formats, can you please put timestamps in the videos?
Twitter's not as important or far-reaching as Twitter users think. The only thing less cool is Facebook according to my kids' classmates.
Neither Twitter or Facebook has asked me for another monthly fee to add to my fixed income. I see no benefits in either program.
The rule is (as Lewis Carroll knew) that you should not eat anyone you've been introduced to. That clearly includes cats, dogs and horses at least in Western culture. Elephants are also included, I think. Guinea pigs I'm not so sure about.
17:00 is Nate talking about Doug Polk lol
I would save the pig over tucker carlson
OMG, the irony! Nate Silver was just after this podcast laid off from ABC/538.
I will very much miss Nate's more rational, less tribal takes on things. He's one of my favorite political commentators, honestly, and I'll probably follow him if he joins some other podcast.
Pigs are pretty Smart and we eat those all the time.
Can Nathaniel post the list using his calculations?
How do you catch a cloud and pin it down
49:50 the structure of our governance system also means that it's harder to get a trifecta as a democratic governor because state houses and state Senates are distorted by district maps. Both With and without partisan gerrymandering.
Very liberal states will always get a democratic governor, but won't so easily get a democratic Congress.
Even some swing states can elect governors and senators for Democrats but have no chance to get the house.
Land votes more than people
10:00 for me it's about most recent common ancestor. I draw that line at about 1 billion years.
It's not good to eat things you share a lot of DNA with for health and ethical reasons (essentially same reason cannibalism is bad)
The question about elephant ignored 1 major caveat. Elephants are endangered. If elephants were as populous as a cow, the answer probably changes.
There is a point when people should retire. We should be mentoring our replacements.
Given all the layoffs and Nate planning on not renewing his contract... patreon podcast with the old gang?
Sounded like Nate didn't have a choice to not renew.
RIP 538
3:45 Bravo Galen!
Sad to see that 50% of this panel has now been laid off by ABC news
Barring questions of endangered species and the treatment of food animals I'd eat anything but seafood, and that only because I don't like seafood. Meat is meat. If I eat meat personally I feel I need to be willing to eat any meat from a moral perspective. And yes, I include human in there. Would I kill a human or a dog or whatever for food? No. But if it was served to me would I eat it? Yes.
Intelligence plays no factor in what animals I eat. I’m way smarter than all of them
What if the choice was yourself or your dog?
Please get a breaking news animation! haha 😂
pigs and dogs are natural swimmers. So why couldn't they save themselves?
I had guinea pig in Ecuador. Tastes like dark meat chicken lol
The guy who is not willing to eat smart animals conveniently left out pork. Pigs are smarter than dogs.
My first experience with Nate Silver is this podcast and his first words are "it's cringier to not pay for twitter blue" 💀 I don't even use twitter, and even I know that's a hot take.
Also at 8:00 someone talks about how people would probably draw the line at domesticated animals after mentioning horses... which are domesticated animals. Another point slightly after on how people decide based a lot on intelligence is quite interesting when you consider high animal "intelligence" isn't required for animal suffering.
Democrats should just expel her from the senate tbh.
Stop electing Northern California politicians for one
Feinstein isn't the only person with reduced mental capacities in politics, in fact it's not even just an American problem tho it is definitely pronounced here and she seems to be a very strong case. Doesn't matter if it's Northern California, or Central Iowa, or wherever. Boomers pull a lot of political weight due to their population size and the fact they were better educated than younger generations and therefore more likely to vote, and boomers tend to only care about boomers, and strongly vote for other boomers. We thank them for their service, now please make room for new generations to lead. I've lived in a lot of places including Northern California, and frankly there's just nothing new under the sun wherever you move to. Places where retirees congregate, especially those predominantly white and wealthy, yeah they vote in wankers like Feinstein. You can't expect people who are living comfortably and out of touch with the worlds problem, to vote in problem solvers. They're going to vote in people who twiddle their thumbs, bc that's what they do. All we can do is focus on educating people politically, raising social awareness of these problems, and encouraging and facilitating people lawfully exercising their right to vote.
What's wrong with northern California
@@NickHernandez2024 Its a demographically insignificant portion of the state which until recently controlled both Senate seats and still controls the governorship. When 50% of a populace lives in the southernmost 25% off the state but the political power is concentrated in the sparsely populated but very wealthy north its a certain recipe for misrepresentation and disconnected politicians. Feinstein to a tee
@@Horwitz86 ooh ok I see. Interesting
This title will make centrist democrats mad
Nate does not want to be enhanced! 🤣😂🤣
Cow, goats, pigs, sheep, ducks, and chicken are domesticated animals...so saying you won't eat domesticated animals then you are saying you won't eat almost all commercially available meats
Gross...eating horse & elephants!🤮
The Democratic party in a nutshell: Al Franken gets immediately excommunicated from the party for a bad joke that happened 11 years prior and Dianne Feinstein just gets to death bed her way RBG style to open her seat to Republicans. After she basically fully endorsed a surveillance state with the passage of the Patriot Act.
The Republican party in a nutshell: I bought the supreme court fair and square. Why can't I keep it?!
Uh.... wolves are way smarter than dogs
And very social
14:00 i feel like for me, it wouldn't be linear nor logarithmic.. like, two dogs v. One person it would be up in the air for me because I care about dogs and being able to see their scared faces ....
But when it reached a number high enough that the individuals were impossible to distinguish, i might feel like i don't know who could take care of them all and would start to pick the human again.
If I was actually in the scenario on the ground though, I really hope the human speaks a language i know, because the communication by the dogs ... It's the sounds and the facial expressions that are swaying me ....
I might end up picking the human every time.
If this trolley problem could ever actually happen ....
Also, if the human is trying to harm the dogs they are dead.
If the dogs are trying to eat the human, i will save the human and get away.
Will Tucker run? What if Chris Christie runs?
Brain proportion to body size is more important than number of brain cells -- the bigger the animal, the more brain mass needs to be devoted to controlling the body. By that standard, dogs/pigs/cows are pretty similar and it would be consistent to eat all 3.
There is a measure called the encephalisation quotient that attempts to account for this, by basically comparing brain size against expected size for an animal of that size, with high-than-expected values correlating pretty well to intelligence, although only in mammals. It's also a bit hard to use on domesticated mammals, especially pigs, because we've bred them to have so much more mass than they would otherwise have.
@@merrymachiavelli2041 yep, and for instance dogs have a very large part of their brain devoted to olfaction.
Only roadblock is if it's pending extinction. Otherwise, try least once.
Would eat a dog before an elephant.
Plenty of dogs in the world.
Don't want to eat either though.
she is depressed over he husbands death ya? How come she hasnt retired yet. Why drag the entire country through the dirt because of your depression. RIP her husband.
Eat Bambi? In the German Bambi both man and beast would.
I always just skip the ones with Nate Silver in them. He just seems like a mean person and honestly provides less insight than most other guests.
Good news for you then. He won't be around anymore.
possibly the most inane discussion ive ever heard, im out
Yall really have no idea what "domesticated" means?
An impaired senator is less of a problem than commonly imagined. The job is big enough that not much of it is done by the one person who's nominally responsible for it. Bills are mostly drafted by staff. Senators' votes are mostly negotiated between the staff of the senator whose vote it is and the staff of senators who are pushing for or against the bill. Aside from procedural rituals, the senator him- or herself mostly has to be out raising money for the next campaign.
The whole first segment was unbearable. Can we stay on topic maybe
❤️💜
Faites attention! 😂
We live on the planet of humans. Most of the animal biomass is either human, or our domesticated food animals.
Live with it. Life isn't a rose garden.
Nate Silver is unbearable 37:00 but yea
Those who want Feinstein to resign should think of the consequences: Does anyone believe that Governor Newsom will appoint anyone remotely progressive to the seat? 👎
He'll appoint someone who will show up.
@@richardarriaga6271 A corporate Democrat who will vote with Republicans 80÷ of time. He surely won't appoint Katie Porter.👎
Nate is out at 538! Woke politics lead to the downfall of this once great website. Sad but predictable.
Corps don't care about red/blue. Only green. See Fox and CNN.