Nyck de Vries is an example of a driver situation Piastri was looking to avoid when it appeared Alpine were committed to Alonso and Ocon. Fighting and using common sense to ensure a place on the grid rather than being left years without a step up only to be forgotten and replaced in a few years time by a new flashy F2 champ that just had more fortunate timing. Merc didn't even use him as their reserve driver when he was at the track and the seat was free, instead taking George out his existing seat for the weekend. These F1 corporations love to talk about loyalty and commitment at the moment but will happily toss a young driver aside when it suits them. Good on Piastri, sent a message to the teams that their upcoming talent can't be taken for granted.
This is so true. Watching the race this weekend, you keep seeing Nyck sitting with Toto and thinking why doesn’t this guy have a seat? He’s better than drivers on other teams, and Lewis and George don’t look like they’re going anywhere anytime soon! It’s really messed up.
Tom my dear man..... Your comments are EXACTLY what myself and many others in the F1 social arena have been frustrated with Driver investment programs for a long time now. Well said good sir!👍
For years teams have spent millions on drivers development and then cast them aside for a bigger name, now that the tables have turned it's suddenly a problem
The problem is that before they spent little to no money, and the drivers "discarted" had little to no investment compared to today, its hard for a team to invest milions with drivers if they can just leave, but at the same time fuck these guys i think driver needs to be free to choose although that is not nescessarely moral.
@@maxbey482 That's what contracts are for - defining when and how teams can use their investment in a driver. If there is no contract, they aren't "allowed" to do anything, regardless of how much money the spent previously. It's that simple.
The purpose of the junior programs are to get them ready for F1. Right now it seems like the system in place is designed to hoard drivers to prevent others from having them. Drivers also risk wasting their prime years on the sidelines or on minnow teams, which is not what they want either.
Doesn't seem like any team gives a shit about their junior programmes, even if there are a few who don't look that impressive. Most of the big guns have long-term contracts for their current lineup and the teams lower down are either indecisive or letting a driver (Stroll and Latifi) waste a seat that can be taken by someone with far more to offer, like Pourchaire or Drugovich but both seem like they'll be wasting a year on the sidelines for nothing. Teams need to either make a far more concerted effort to get juniors into race seats properly or make better choices in the drivers they pick for those programmes
Yes and no ? It's quite similar to football clubs management. You take all Big clubs they train lots of great young players but when they are ready for it the team is so full that they have to be on loan first. He would have been in F1 next year, but in a less good team right (Williams from what i heard ?). I think his decision is a strong sign of high self confidence, but he already lost a seat for ever (i think ?) and there are not that much in F1. As for alpine i think with alonse performing so good they had no choice. But they should hire a better juridics team in the future clearly they lack on that
@@alexpeak16 Yep. Like maybe require every team to field one of their juniors in an actual F1 Grand Prix at least once per year. Not just a practice session.
people forget that alpine had no intention of putting oscar in their seat so oscar had every right to look for a better team. the difference is george had to wait for mercedes because he had to earn it they were a 8 time championship winners in a row, oscar had the opportunity to go to a better team when the original didn’t want him in the seat. fair play to him.
Alpine is better than McLaren for sure, they are factory team, they just need a bit more money, maybe the 100M $, Mclaren paid for Mercedes engine and Dani Ric would be enough for Alpine to convert to race winners.
I agree, they were too late and probably was not even on contention till Alonso jumped ship. Piastri has been waiting for 2 years for an f1 chance, he did what he needed to do.
@@sam-nariman6236 Considering the only reason Alpine is ahead in the 2022 point total is because Dani Ric has scored barely any points this year... not sure how you consider them the better team. Norris has more points than both Alonso or Ocon. The Mclaren is more than a match for the Alpine with a good driver in it. Also, Alpine doesn't know how to provide contracts and instead just takes to the media to drag the drivers name through the mud when the drivers just move on. Seems like a pretty shitty team to me.
When people start talking about loyalty or integrity in relation to contracts, you know they either messed up the contract or don’t have one that does what they want it to do…
And apparently loyalty only needs to go in one direction, driver to team. Nothing says loyalty from Alpine but not getting Piastri a seat for 22, shipping him off to Williams for 23 and 24. What a show of loyalty.
Also, it's noteworthy that Helmut Marko won the battle with Lauda over Verstappen because RB gave him a solid contract with a promised drive, while Lauda (on behalf of Mercedes) on the other hand could only offer him a possible drive in 2 years' time. The clearest, most rewarding contract will always win.
Problem here is Alpine wanted to keep Fernando in the seat, Piastri was tired of waiting, then when Fernando decided to go to Aston Martin, now all the sudden they want Piastri. You really can’t blame Piastri. He wants to drive in F1. This was his chance with Mclaren and he took it.
I suspect Alpine were trying to pin down Alonso in the same way Webber was trying to pin down Alpine, and Alonso was dragging alone because of the Aston Martin opportunity. So, while Alpine were negligent in not having Piastri on a proper contract in the first place, like RBR do, they kinda got double screwed by Alonso messing about.
@@alancx523 Honestly from everything I’ve heard Alpine wasn’t very interested in giving Fernando a multi year deal due to his age but at the same time they still wanted him to stay, then Piastri is thinking what am I doing, sitting here waiting for Fernando to make a decision? Mclaren seat open now? Ok I’m gone. Fernando wanted commitment from his team and Aston offered that to him.
@@PatrickMcMahon1 yup. And as I sort of said, Alonso dragging his feet, not saying yes or no to Alpine, sniffing at AM, while Alpine have to wait on him, while Piastri wants answers, all with a back drop of no actual Piastri contract......
@@alancx523 How was Alonso dragging his feet, Aston hadn't talked to anybody until Vettel had made his decision as he was their first choice? By all accounts the Aston deal with Alonso was sorted within days as they were prepared to give him what he wanted. To me the problem seems to be that Alpine had 2 driver and weren't prepared to give either of them want they wanted and are now surprised to find they both found both found oppertunities elsewhere with teams that were prepared to give them what they wanted.
I think they key point wolff is missing is that alpine had no intention to use piastri until last minute. It feels too many teams are more interested keeping drivers on their books versus actually getting them to f1. Obviously wolff has self interest in this, however the fact the contract recognition contract ruled in favour of piastri says a lot. I can’t stop thinking about Prost referring to the team as “a mess” when he left
Prost, and Abiteboul, and Budkowski. It's clear Rossi wants certain people in and certain people out. Prost found through experience he was part of the out group and bailed. Piastri clearly was too. If he had stuck around as their second choice, who's to say he wouldn't be turfed out for someone else later? Literally everyone except competing teams and managers thinks he did the right thing. He himself said one of his main motivators was how excited McLaren was to have him, as it should be.
There are only 2 seats. If I'm Alpine, I would stick with Fernando as well. Oscar could wait a little bit longer, but he is too eager to get a seat so he literally burn down the pillars that got him to where he's at. If things go south at McLaren, he will get kick out. 2023 will be interesting and I cannot wait for the Oscar hype to blow up in Mclaren's face.
And equally while they had supported him over F2 and F3, he wasn't a long term Alpine junior. Paid his own way through karting and EuroFormula days. Indeed I believe at least part of the contract was a prize for winning EuroFormula.
I love how Toto ignores the fact he will dump a driver(Botas) the instant he feels a better one comes along(Russell). In the end this is a business and Piastre's team did what was best with a team in Alpine that took him for granted.
That's not strictly true, but it is where these young driver programs get tricky. People are saying Piastri wa setup to succeed but has walked away after not willing to go to Williams and Alpine not offering him a seat. Russell was part of the Mercedes driver program, he paid his dues and felt he was worthy of a Mercedes seat, that left Toto in a situation where he knows he has to progress his junior driver so has to let Bottas go. These contracts set years before you HOPE the driver can drive for you can be limiting in so many ways.
" In the end this is a business and..." From a business standpoint, Alpine dropped the ball when they dragged their feet over a "Terms Sheet" from November 2021, and didn't get an actual F1 contract signed. Not under contract? You're a free agent that can go anywhere.
Kudos to Mark Webber, top management from an experienced driver who clearly understands the pitfalls to avoid and has managed to get the best for Piastri
It’s not right that teams expect drivers to wait for a seat that may not ever come. And as for costs, well, that’s not the driver’s fault that the current FiA structure is so costly.
but how would you fix it? outside of just not giving drivers many seasons and constantly cycling drivers their are only 20 seats, and even if multiple teams join it will still only be 30 seats or less. you're always gonna have people waiting for seats. its just a consequence of F1 today being so popular you have tens of thousands of drivers across junior categories competing for literally 20 seats.
@@realyopikechannel well with any luck the budget cap and no real negative change in how much advertising/sponsors bring in, we could see less pay drivers. This opens a bit more space to drivers to get into f1 quicker. When you have bright new talents who may not want as much pay as existing drivers just to get in, this will always keep teams on their toes to keep bringing in the best talents, while also keeping drivers aware that they need to perform at their best at all times.
EXACTLY! & the big end of town has always had control of the house keys .... Suddenly the kids get hold of the keys and it's PIASTRI Time!!!! ohhh Yeah!
@@realyopikechannel I'd have the FIA fix the super licence system so that F2 and F3 aren't the only realistic path to get into F1. If F2 has to compete with other series they will be forced to bring down their costs in order to attract talent and thus F1 teams wouldn't have to invest so much money into F2 and F3.
@@louiscypher4186 great answer, get rid of the formula feeder series monopoly to force them to compete with other series. The libertarian approach, I like it.
Mercedes just fears one of their juniors will slip from their lineup too. The whole situation was on alpin and oscar did nothing wrong. Toto is siding with alpine, who were ethically in the wrong
I don't follow.. how would this threaten their success? This entire story is about punishing feet-dragging on contracts... which I think Mercs only do with Hamilton because he's Hamilton. All this will do is force teams (as was stated in the video) to either review their contracts or their junior programs to ensure they get the benefit from the money they invest in young drivers and not other teams...
He wanted to be on grid for 23. Renault weren’t offering him at the time as they where trying to sign Alonso on a 1+1 deal. So he went to look else where. I see no problem in what he has done. They where telling him what he wanted to hear that it.
If Alonso hadn't left Alpine, we wouldn't even be talking about this. From everything I've seen, Piastri going to Alpine wasn't an option. With Ocon and Alonso guaranteed drives for at least one more year, Piastri was just going to be another shmuck begging for a chance, so the argument of loyalty and integrity holds absolutely no weight. Piastri had a choice to make; Sit and watch everyone else race for a few years, or go get himself into a seat. He chose the latter and I cant say I blame him.
Can you blame him? Alpine had their chance, they kept him waiting for too long. Williams is not a bad place to start your F1 career but if you can get in a McLaren, why not... When Vettel decided to quit F1 and set the wheels in motion it was already too late.
He would have signed a loan deal for 22 at Williams in a heart beat but where is he at the moment sidelined because Alpine failed him. This would be 3 year waiting about while Alpine don't want you in their car.
@@alexsmith32012 They didn't fail him. You wait your turn. Alonso is very old and he was worried about being promoted. Russell waited and now he's an exceptional driver up to the challenge at only 24.
@@alexsmith32012 Russell would have If Sirotkin wasn't fired and Stroll took off. Latifi had a Seventh last year along with stacks of cash. The point is Piastri was by far the biggest phenomenon in the Alpine system. Given Alonso's advanced age he should have known.
My point from the previous video still stands regardless. This is all on Alpine and their colossal management fuck up, who have so far only ever managed to get a single driver from their program on the grid, and only on the condition of a free agent for Alfa Romeo.
IMO they got the outcome they paid for. They knew Piastri was looking, and knew that their contract didn't bind him, and *still* felt it worth their while not to act. Only when Alonso dropped his bombshell did it suddenly occur to them. It's shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted.
@@grayaj23 but even then, Piastri had told them in June he had signed with McLaren for 2 years, so why wouldn't Alpine give Alonso the 2 year contract he was wanting... Alpine is a mess
@@hbrown689 My guess is that they had negotiated with Redbull for Gasly months ago. The didn't want Piastri or Alonso, but because Herta's superlicence is a longshot they wanted them as back up plans in case it fell through. When they found out about Piastri's contract they initially weren't too concerned because they thought they could stall Alonso long enough for the FIA to make a decision on Herta. Then Alonso left and they panicked.
Nah, in this case it's a danger to Mercedes' bottom line as well as the other giants that (try to) hoard talent. This is good for established talent. The real danger I see is to younger talent that now may get more restricting and smothering contracts as their only option to progress through the feeder series.
@@OrangePukeko OR..... its better for the driver market as they will see competing offers from other driver programs? (not a criticism just a thought for the conversation)
I don't really feel bad for any team as far as the contract circus. if they really valued his presence they should have written a different contract. It's hard to feel bad for organizations that throw people to the ditch so frequently, it's a common thing in all professional sports.
@@alimanski7941 he really didn't, you just don't like him. he said teams need to be more careful with how they write their contracts as drivers will find the holes in them. you did watch the video I presume?
When Toto say "bad for F1" he means it removes one of his advantages. The rich teams don't get to stockpile drivers and remove any choices they have. A mechanic doesn't have to hang around at the workplace that helps with the apprenticeship. You don't get to extend contracts in perpetuity, just because the employee was good one...and you want to benefit without risking a longer contract to start with. Toto wants slaves...not drivers.
@@Gofex1337 he didn't deny the seat. He signed with mclaren way before all of this kicked off. Back when they were trying to get alonso to sign a 2 year deal. At the time he signed for mclaren there was no seat on offer for him to reject
@@Gofex1337 They had no intention of offering him a seat until Alonso signed for Aston. By then, Piastri had already signed for McLaren. Its their fault for trying to string two drivers along.
All Alpine had to do is hire a Law firm for few thousand dollars to just write a fucking contract for him. "Why spend Few thousand dollars for something when we can waste half a million?" - Alpine probably.
I think Alpine stuff ups started when they signed Ocon on a long term contract. With Piastri coming through they needed to make a decision between Alonso and Ocon and keep the other spot free for Piastri. They signed Ocon long term but then wanted to keep Alonso and Piastri too, and it all blew up in their face.
Real rich coming from Wolff. The only dangerous precedent that’s been set is, you’re only worth is if a F1 team deems you so. Ocon, Weherlin, Vandoorne, Dyvfrs, all passed along by MERCEDES! Piastri was preventing that. Besides Alpine view if it’s worth is WAY over inflated. Wait at Williams to get into a mid field team!
You know what? Alpine deserved this. Piastri was the f2 champion and had literally nothing on the horizon for the foreseeable future. That’s unacceptable. They were thinking they can fool him with a second seat at Williams (like Russel had to endure for 3 years) with no guarantee they’d offer something more substantial. And to be fair the Alpine team isn’t promising they’ll compete at the highest step of the grid. So he was doomed to drive the worst car for an indefinite number of years (until Alonso decided to move on) then join arguably the best of the rest, which is hardly exciting for a driver of his potential. At least George Russel had the perspective of being a Mercedes’ driver (lol 2022 season) but Alpine? Nah. The real hero in this story was Alonso who made the move to Aston Martin, thus leaving a window open on how dumb that team is being managed.
It seems like a lot of people don’t understand the purpose of an F1 teams junior program. It isn’t to get drivers ready for F1 or help the future of the sport. It’s investing in a young talent that the team hopes will payoff one day if that driver turns out to be great. It isn’t out of the goodness of their heart. They don’t have hearts they are businesses making investments. The problem Toto points out is true. If this kind of thing keeps happening teams will stop investing in young talent over fear they will get burned. That’s bad for everybody
Spot on. This is a case of Piastri just pissed in the pool and now everyone has to swim in it. So many plebs here just want to shove it to the big man and can barely think for themselves.
Absolute crap Jason! Alpine have themselves to blame over not getting an F2 & F3 champion they helped pay for into F1 ASAP. They had a chance to promote him in 2022: went and extended the mediocre Ocon's contract and kept the 40+ year old Alonso. Their plans for 2023 Jason? Keep the mediocre Ocon and extend the 40+ year old Alonso's deal. Best case scenario: they MIGHT get Piastri a Williams seat for 2023 (a completely rubbish backmarker!), and he'd (maybe?) get a shot at Alpine in 2025! Can you actually blame Piastri??? You're also talking about a guy (Toto) who likes having ex-F2 champion Nyck De Vries by the short & curlies. De Vries is STILL waiting for his F1 chance at 27 years old!!!
@@mikespearwood3914 I’m not saying that Alpine didn’t f up. And if Toto could have found a team that wanted de vreis he would have let him go there. Just like he did ocon. Their weren’t any open seats from de vries. That wasn’t Toto’s fault. You want to blame Toto for that but what team would have taken him if Merc released him from his contract? All I’m saying is that if teams feel they can get burned after supporting a driver they may stop supporting them or support fewer. This is probably all won’t even matter because other team won’t screw up contracts like Alpine. You can’t really argue against the fact that teams want a return on their investment. Not even staying I agree with treating people like investments but that what they are to these businesses/teams. You’re looking at it with your emotions
@@mikespearwood3914 Mediocre Ocon. Look how Van Doorne and Massa and even Kimi did against Alonso. Ocon was right there with Perez straight off. They fired Hulkenberg for Ocon. They're not going to fire Esteban 1.5 years later for Piastri who may be a Hamilton or barely better than Jolyon. Esteban has their first modern era win. It's fortunate you're not in a decision making position
@@mikespearwood3914 people complain they dropped Bottas others that Russell had to wait so long. There can be many cross purpose situations in such a competitive environment. Some say they should have broomed a very fast Alonso at the end of this season to keep Piastri. You want to fire Ocon who is mediocre in your imagination only.
This isn’t a problem with the junior driver system, it’s an Alpine problem and a problem with how their junior program works. Since 2016 they’ve fielded 8 Renault backed drivers in just Formula 2 and as of the start of this year… only 1 of those 8 has been promoted in the last 7 years. This is also just a case of Toto being Toto and chatting out his rear which is rich considering the last time a Mercedes backed junior made it to formula 2 was 2018 with Russell
And...Piastri did as well as Russell. Russell made the big team at 24 as an exceptional well rounded driver. De Vries won F2 but barely in his third year. Hamilton and Valterri were a great partnership but they couldn't keep George waiting even longer. You promote on ability. Palmer won GP2 and still was not good. A lot of those Renault prospects couldn't get their Super license by 30...Roy Nissany's goal🤣🤣
Great explanation as usual Ed. The devil is in the detail, Piastri’s trust and loyalty was tested by Alpine’s lack of rigour. He gave them the opportunity for 8 months to give him a contract.
This is not a young driver problem. This is an Alpine problem. The institutional incompetence alone that enables a team to lose both Alonso and Piastri nearly simultaneously speaks volumes. And I love Mercedes but Toto just wants Teams to hold all the power in the Young Driver vs Team relationship. I'm glad Piastri has managed to forge his own path and isn't stuck languishing in the backfield after already having to sit out of F1 for a season through no real fault of his own. Alpine took him and Alonso for granted and got what they deserved.
Well there is a young driver problem. Look at De Vries. He is now 27 and Mercedes keeps dragging him around dangling the F1 carrot in his face when there is no way they actually going to ever put him into their team. If Bottas would have been better I don't see them getting Russell into the team.
If teams don't want to lose a young driver after investing heavily in them, maybe actually sign a contract with them and give them a seat, rather than keeping them on the sideline as 1) a backup for if your "real" driver moves on and 2) not on your rivals' teams.
Let's not forget that Zhou was an Alpine Junior Driver before he went to Sauber Alfa Romeo, of which Sauber themselves has their own Junior Drivers Academy.
To be honest, it seems pretty pathetic to think of Otmar's words after the result of all of this. Asking for loyalty only because they could not figure out what to do with Alonso. This kind of leader is the last type of person most people will trust.
The bit that Toto seems to be ignoring (or not aware of when he made those comments) is that the CRB revealed Piastri had been waiting for a promised contract from Alpine since November 2021. Had Alpine actually signed him to a contract in the timeframe they had said they would, none of this would have happened.
If he meant that much to the team, they would have had a contract on the table in November/December. Ya snooze, ya lose. I hope Piastri has a fantastic career. Onwards and upwards
It’s not setting a precedent for young drivers to make their own decisions, it’s a wake up call that teams actually need to communicate with their rookies. Alpine lost Piastri because they ignored him, so when Piastri saw a seat opening, he took the chance.
I think there's a fundamental problem with Formula 3 and Formula 2 - I think the limit there should be decreased to just 2 seasons (3 if you have finished in Top 5 at least once), which IMO is enough to evaluate if the driver is ready for the next level. That way the F2 field for example will not be cloged up with the likes of Ralf Boschung and others who stay for far too long.
Even if it's not more teams, let teams have a 3rd spot maybe? The constructors don't want to dilute the prize money. I get that, but 20 isn't enough spots. In the 80's and 90's, there was 30+ cars. Maybe you only let 22 or 24 qualify? I don't know.
Thank you so so much for this critique of Alpine and of Wolff's comments. Everyone knew Alpine put on their oversized shoes and rainbow wig entering this saga, even before the CRB decision. How anyone can criticise junior drivers or Piastri for that matter off the back of this is absurd. If Alpine had any clue they would have signed Piastri at the earliest opportunity when it became apparent Alonso did not want the 1+1 deal, and if they had any decency they shut up about loyalty and their investment when they have fundamentally failed to secure their interests and services of either driver. With Alonso saying his move was motivated with irregularities within the Alpine camp, this critique just cements both drivers decisions to leave them as being the correct move. I would not be surprised if they end up going backwards next year!
It just indicates that when a team has a talent like Piastri they need to give him the shot. They should have been pushing Alonso out for him for 23 at the start of the year.
Or not sign Ocon to a million year contract last year. Alpine failed Piastri for this year remember. If they wanted to loan him to Williams that should have been done for 22 then Alpine would have actually done their job properly
They spent millions on him as an investment. But didn't lock him in. That's their fault, not his. It's nice to see a driver take control of their own future.
Ever since Benetton snatched Schumacher from Jordan, teams should have been vigilant with their contracts. Alpine hasn’t been straight when talking to the media about the contract situation and have been playing the victim. Alpine messed up, if they really wanted Piastri, they should have locked him down with their lawyers
Finally a sober explanation of what happened with Piastri. And contrary to Otmar alluding to Piastris lack of integrity it appears the opposite is true and the only reason for Alpines sudden issue with Piastris future is the unexpected exit of Alonso.
There definitely needs to be more clarity and trust between teams and it’s junior and reserve drivers. It needs to be a mutually beneficial relationship and not one in which one gets manhandled by the other. Wolff is worried about his junior drivers seeing Piastris move as a potential for THEM to leave, but that wouldn’t be the case if Wolff didn’t believe that his drivers were solidly his. Almost sounds like he has no plans to put them in a future seat and instead poach other drivers from other teams. Alpines reluctance to choose between Alonso and Piastri caused them to lose both and they have no podium on which to stand and declare they’re the victim. F1 is a business and as THE RACE points out, Piastris move to McLaren is solely blamed on Alpine not giving him a contract and him then capitalising on the demand for his services. I feel sympathetic towards Ricciardo as he was essentially forced out of his contract but I have no doubt he will find another seat either in the paddock or in a different sport. And I have some degree of sympathy to Alpine as well as they were put in a tough place when they expected to have Alonso with them, Piastri signed with McLaren before Alonso left and then Alonso also proceeded to leave, and thus Alpine in that case weren’t watching their back, and when they turned to see what the noise was, the one in front got away. Overall, Piastris move has, in my opinion, virtually no effect on future driver moves. At it’s core, he was out of contract and signed one with someone willing to make the offer. He didn’t break a contract or any sort of agreement with Alpine and simply took the opportunity that was presented to him before that door could close.
It's bad in the way that in the future, teams might not want to sponsor and pay millions for drivers to get the opportunity to drive karts, F3 or F2 if that driver ultimately goes to another team instead.
I mean, teams have 2 options to fix it immediately. Offer the young drivers seats in your team or don't fund so many drivers if you have no place to put them
An analogy for this would be “Corporation sides with other corporation’s stance over workers rights”. Alpine tried to have an obedient slave with no guarantee of getting a seat while expecting “full loyalty” just cause they paid for his development. They 100% deserved losing Oscar. Of course Toto is going to side with them…he also wants to have little obedient slaves who will even let him spit on their faces if it guarantees a seat in F1. F1 is increasingly becoming a billionaires sport and increasingly bureaucratic.
I think Piastri and Alpine was unique because I believe Alpine wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They were dilly dallying with Alonso and no driver wants to deal with that uncertainty.
I think one of the most overlooked things here is that Piastri was working for Alpine this whole time... Yes, they funded his career, but also he gave them a lot of running data and development in the sim for their racing. They make out like they were doing him a massive favour but it's a 2 way street.
As with any business deal, bargaining power shouldn't be monopolised in the hands of only one of the two parties. I was pretty sceptical of the move at first too, but I feel the agency that Piastri made use of with the McLaren/Alpine situation is an important equaliser between aspiring drivers and their parent teams.
Toto's not wrong though, the risk is there's a chance teams will be more hesitant to invest in junior driving programs, but also the risk of far more constricting contracts for future juniors
HooRAH HooRAH.... Now may we please get a podcast covering ALL the apologies to Piastri and his team for the slanderous statements made in the public arena.... Or do they lack the integrity and honesty to do so... Wait what? What do you mean you cant sue someone for slander because it's F1?
Everyone gangsta about 'iT's LEgaL' until they realize it's usually the small guy getting bent over by legal agreements. Then it turns into 'legal terms are eeeeevil'.
When teams are buying up talent to prevent others from using it and then effectively BENCHING them for season after season its pretty facile for teams to lash out when something like this happens.
Great stuff Ed. Anyone who is paying attention to the under 25yr crowd should already know they are not going to be pushed aside, patronized or played for second fiddle or a backup plan. There are plenty of industries right now that are finding out the hard way that the old methods just don't work with these youngsters. And you know what?- good for them! Too many corporations take "loyalty" to mean a one-way street and do exactly what Alpine did with Piastri. Let's see who is paying attention in the next 5 years, eh?
Put De Vries in an F1 car then Toto can talk, Mercedes have invested in a young driver for what? A FE win for them to withdraw from FE, so they’ve wasted their money themselves 👍
Issue is not in Piastri's move. it in the cockup Alpine made. They have no allies on the grid, and couldn't atleast promise Oscar a place. Remember, George and Charles was immediately promoted to Williams and Alfa Romeo right after their F2 titles. Piastri was not, he was sidelined for a year, then he had to wait for possible Williams deal for 2 years ... or he could just sign a deal with top tier team who ready to give him racing seat for next year and onwards.
Nah, I don't think this will be so much dangerous for junior teams. The Piastri saga was a combination of bad management and bad timing: they didn't want to put him in the team because of Alonso's presence, but neither wanted to give Alonso the contract he wanted because of Piastri's presence. Piastri then tried to save his career going to Mclaren rather than Williams (and so, remain in a backmarker team for 2 or 3 years)...
If anything, Piastri’s contract should put all teams on notice that either you utilize the talent you have or risk losing it. No locking young drivers in ironclad contracts to prevent them from being able to race and if driver academies are an expectation of blind loyalty then maybe they should go away. There’s already a history of too many drivers taking up seats that should go to deserving talent (Stroll and Mazepin for example).
As other people have pointed out all of these contracts and lock-downs hurt the drivers, the sport, and every team other than the ones who have the money to horde drivers or stash them in other series like F2, FE or IndyCar. Every driver should be free to sign with any team they want and signing a "reserve driver" contract or "young driver" contract should always be null and void when a race seat is open.
Why has Gasley been locked down this entire time when it's clear that Red Bull doesn't want him, they just don't want him driving for a team that doesn't pull off the road in front of them.
I know he won a race, but how did Ocon become indispensable? If Piastri is a Verstappen-level talent why the heck is he the one getting shipped away to Williams FOR TWO YEARS. McLaren didn't let a freak race win cloud their judgment. All this underlines F1's need for 2 or 3 additional teams. F1 is losing drivers with the potential to IndyCar because of pay drivers and a dearth of entry-level seats.
My thought exactly. If we had 24 cars on the grid, I am sure the lower end teams would happily take an F2 champ financially backed by a "rival", even if it is only for 1 or 2 years and then it's up to the big teams to either give them a seat with the main team or to release them from their JDP. Mick Schumacher is a perfect example. Coming from the Ferrari academy, got two seasons with Haas, Ferrari doesn't seem convinced enough to keep him, so they might let him go. They got him into F1, now it's all up to him if he can hold on to it. So many great drivers started in back-marker teams and through showing their talents they got the chance in a midfield team and later in a top team. The first driver to really skip this process (at least in my mind, I may have missed something) was Hamilton who was heavily backed by McLaren and got a seat with them straight away. But even Max, Charles and George (all obvious mega-talents within their respective JDPs) ALL got their first seat in a "B-Team" (Torro Rosso being the only real B-Team, but the other two still very much influenced by their engine supplier) and had to prove that they deserved to drive for RB, Ferrari and Mercedes respectively. Pay drivers always have been part of F1 and as long as they use up only 1 seat of a back marker team and help keeping it afloat so the other seat can help grow a talent, F1 wins long term.
Toto has lost his cleverness ability with his age and 2021 trauma. If something is not working is mercedes favour or lulu's favor he feels F1 need a change. Winning 7 championships and still crying for not winning 8 due to Masi has affected his mental state.
Why is no one calling out the two championship Oscar won for the team?! Oscar and Webber told them we will not sit out another year. It’s on Alpine for wanting to keep both Fernando and Oscar. Toto is a baby as always
i think apline was trying oscar to stay in F1 through Williams for 1-2 years so that he can develop and then give him alpine seat like george russell and charles leclerc
If only Ricardo refused to leave McLaren. Then piastri still wouldn’t have a seat. A bit dirty of McLaren to sign piastri before telling Ricardo and having him believe they would continue for 2023
Sorry about the re-upload, everybody. Just fixing a mildly colossal error in the previous version! Thanks for watching - we really appreciate it
what was the error?
bet alpine with they could reupload Piastri’s “contract”
👀👀👀 kinda wish I knew what it was cause I screw crap up all the time as rumors and facts change and have to correct myself to my brother.
@@sip_arizona I think they misspoke & said Piastri went from McLaren to Alpine.
@@sip_arizona in the original he said Oscar moved from McLaren to Alpine in the beginning.
Nyck de Vries is an example of a driver situation Piastri was looking to avoid when it appeared Alpine were committed to Alonso and Ocon. Fighting and using common sense to ensure a place on the grid rather than being left years without a step up only to be forgotten and replaced in a few years time by a new flashy F2 champ that just had more fortunate timing. Merc didn't even use him as their reserve driver when he was at the track and the seat was free, instead taking George out his existing seat for the weekend. These F1 corporations love to talk about loyalty and commitment at the moment but will happily toss a young driver aside when it suits them. Good on Piastri, sent a message to the teams that their upcoming talent can't be taken for granted.
This is so true. Watching the race this weekend, you keep seeing Nyck sitting with Toto and thinking why doesn’t this guy have a seat? He’s better than drivers on other teams, and Lewis and George don’t look like they’re going anywhere anytime soon! It’s really messed up.
Tom my dear man..... Your comments are EXACTLY what myself and many others in the F1 social arena have been frustrated with Driver investment programs for a long time now. Well said good sir!👍
Redbull also seems to be very harsh to their juniors.
Nyck de Vries was sign as Mercedes reserve driver in 2021
Nyck absolutely deserves a drive. But now we have a Tsunoda and a Piastri.
For years teams have spent millions on drivers development and then cast them aside for a bigger name, now that the tables have turned it's suddenly a problem
The problem is that before they spent little to no money, and the drivers "discarted" had little to no investment compared to today, its hard for a team to invest milions with drivers if they can just leave, but at the same time fuck these guys i think driver needs to be free to choose although that is not nescessarely moral.
Well said !!
@@lukasausen that being the case they should be liable for re-imbursement.
"teams spent millions on driver development" are the key words. if they spent the money they should be allowed to decide whether or not to use them.
@@maxbey482 That's what contracts are for - defining when and how teams can use their investment in a driver. If there is no contract, they aren't "allowed" to do anything, regardless of how much money the spent previously. It's that simple.
The purpose of the junior programs are to get them ready for F1. Right now it seems like the system in place is designed to hoard drivers to prevent others from having them.
Drivers also risk wasting their prime years on the sidelines or on minnow teams, which is not what they want either.
Its also hard to get into f1 once you start being inactive. Piatsri had to make a move or he ends up being forgotten by the next bright talent
Doesn't seem like any team gives a shit about their junior programmes, even if there are a few who don't look that impressive. Most of the big guns have long-term contracts for their current lineup and the teams lower down are either indecisive or letting a driver (Stroll and Latifi) waste a seat that can be taken by someone with far more to offer, like Pourchaire or Drugovich but both seem like they'll be wasting a year on the sidelines for nothing.
Teams need to either make a far more concerted effort to get juniors into race seats properly or make better choices in the drivers they pick for those programmes
Yes and no ? It's quite similar to football clubs management. You take all Big clubs they train lots of great young players but when they are ready for it the team is so full that they have to be on loan first. He would have been in F1 next year, but in a less good team right (Williams from what i heard ?).
I think his decision is a strong sign of high self confidence, but he already lost a seat for ever (i think ?) and there are not that much in F1.
As for alpine i think with alonse performing so good they had no choice. But they should hire a better juridics team in the future clearly they lack on that
@@alexpeak16 Yep. Like maybe require every team to field one of their juniors in an actual F1 Grand Prix at least once per year. Not just a practice session.
The purpose of the junior programs is, and has always been, to hoard young drivers to stop other teams from having them.
people forget that alpine had no intention of putting oscar in their seat so oscar had every right to look for a better team. the difference is george had to wait for mercedes because he had to earn it they were a 8 time championship winners in a row, oscar had the opportunity to go to a better team when the original didn’t want him in the seat. fair play to him.
Alpine is better than McLaren for sure, they are factory team, they just need a bit more money, maybe the 100M $, Mclaren paid for Mercedes engine and Dani Ric would be enough for Alpine to convert to race winners.
I agree, they were too late and probably was not even on contention till Alonso jumped ship. Piastri has been waiting for 2 years for an f1 chance, he did what he needed to do.
How can you put someone in the seat if the seats aren't free at the time.
@@sam-nariman6236 Considering the only reason Alpine is ahead in the 2022 point total is because Dani Ric has scored barely any points this year... not sure how you consider them the better team. Norris has more points than both Alonso or Ocon. The Mclaren is more than a match for the Alpine with a good driver in it. Also, Alpine doesn't know how to provide contracts and instead just takes to the media to drag the drivers name through the mud when the drivers just move on. Seems like a pretty shitty team to me.
alpine didn’t want to give fernando a 2 year deal because of piastri that’s why he went to aston martin but piastri was in contention for 2023
When people start talking about loyalty or integrity in relation to contracts, you know they either messed up the contract or don’t have one that does what they want it to do…
Good point...if it's a valid, good contract, why talk about loyalty?
And apparently loyalty only needs to go in one direction, driver to team. Nothing says loyalty from Alpine but not getting Piastri a seat for 22, shipping him off to Williams for 23 and 24. What a show of loyalty.
Exactly, it's simple. No need to be scared of driver programs, just write better contracts.
"But you don't understand, he didn't honour the spirit of the contract!" -Alpine (probably)
@@DarkenSeyreth lol alpine tried to cover their fuck up by saying loyalty issue
I don't think Toto wants De Vries getting any ideas about being able to control his own destiny.
De Vries is Toto's garage pet, he's always hanging around wait for that little treat. :(
The difference is that Mercedes aren't dumb enough to not have De Vries sign a long term contract.
@@nobass_stub1394 he's the only Dutch world champion. Max is part Belgian.
@@adampetten5349 and de vries is half asian if that wasnt obvious
Also, it's noteworthy that Helmut Marko won the battle with Lauda over Verstappen because RB gave him a solid contract with a promised drive, while Lauda (on behalf of Mercedes) on the other hand could only offer him a possible drive in 2 years' time. The clearest, most rewarding contract will always win.
Problem here is Alpine wanted to keep Fernando in the seat, Piastri was tired of waiting, then when Fernando decided to go to Aston Martin, now all the sudden they want Piastri. You really can’t blame Piastri. He wants to drive in F1. This was his chance with Mclaren and he took it.
I suspect Alpine were trying to pin down Alonso in the same way Webber was trying to pin down Alpine, and Alonso was dragging alone because of the Aston Martin opportunity. So, while Alpine were negligent in not having Piastri on a proper contract in the first place, like RBR do, they kinda got double screwed by Alonso messing about.
@@alancx523 Honestly from everything I’ve heard Alpine wasn’t very interested in giving Fernando a multi year deal due to his age but at the same time they still wanted him to stay, then Piastri is thinking what am I doing, sitting here waiting for Fernando to make a decision? Mclaren seat open now? Ok I’m gone. Fernando wanted commitment from his team and Aston offered that to him.
@@PatrickMcMahon1 yup. And as I sort of said, Alonso dragging his feet, not saying yes or no to Alpine, sniffing at AM, while Alpine have to wait on him, while Piastri wants answers, all with a back drop of no actual Piastri contract......
@@alancx523 100% True
@@alancx523 How was Alonso dragging his feet, Aston hadn't talked to anybody until Vettel had made his decision as he was their first choice? By all accounts the Aston deal with Alonso was sorted within days as they were prepared to give him what he wanted. To me the problem seems to be that Alpine had 2 driver and weren't prepared to give either of them want they wanted and are now surprised to find they both found both found oppertunities elsewhere with teams that were prepared to give them what they wanted.
I think they key point wolff is missing is that alpine had no intention to use piastri until last minute. It feels too many teams are more interested keeping drivers on their books versus actually getting them to f1.
Obviously wolff has self interest in this, however the fact the contract recognition contract ruled in favour of piastri says a lot.
I can’t stop thinking about Prost referring to the team as “a mess” when he left
Toto cant but help himself, being a self interested story teller to the waning Mercededs masses who bother to listen to the tripe!
I have not trusted Alpine's management since Prost left.
Let's also not forget that Prost didn't 'leave'. He was fired by Rossi.
Prost, and Abiteboul, and Budkowski. It's clear Rossi wants certain people in and certain people out. Prost found through experience he was part of the out group and bailed. Piastri clearly was too. If he had stuck around as their second choice, who's to say he wouldn't be turfed out for someone else later? Literally everyone except competing teams and managers thinks he did the right thing. He himself said one of his main motivators was how excited McLaren was to have him, as it should be.
There are only 2 seats. If I'm Alpine, I would stick with Fernando as well. Oscar could wait a little bit longer, but he is too eager to get a seat so he literally burn down the pillars that got him to where he's at. If things go south at McLaren, he will get kick out. 2023 will be interesting and I cannot wait for the Oscar hype to blow up in Mclaren's face.
Sounds like this "dangerous precedent" is going to keep more drivers from getting de Vries'd so no wonder Toto is against it.
even without nyck, toto's been pulling this nonsense for far longer, don't forget abt wherlein getting shafted at manor and sauber in 16-17
De Vries is Toto's garage pet, he's always hanging around wait for that little treat. :(
@@manuelmanterola7070 how about Ocon in 2019
@@DiamontSeven He is out of countract, and both parties are agree to release him to alpine
@@azizhusseinz2083 If he was out of contract, what is it exactly that both parties needed to agree to?
Alpine screwed up, and don't want to admit it. No contract = free to move on.
Renault Alpine and Ferrari both screwed up. Big time.
@@purwantiallan5089 why Ferrari?
And equally while they had supported him over F2 and F3, he wasn't a long term Alpine junior.
Paid his own way through karting and EuroFormula days.
Indeed I believe at least part of the contract was a prize for winning EuroFormula.
I love how Toto ignores the fact he will dump a driver(Botas) the instant he feels a better one comes along(Russell). In the end this is a business and Piastre's team did what was best with a team in Alpine that took him for granted.
That's not strictly true, but it is where these young driver programs get tricky. People are saying Piastri wa setup to succeed but has walked away after not willing to go to Williams and Alpine not offering him a seat. Russell was part of the Mercedes driver program, he paid his dues and felt he was worthy of a Mercedes seat, that left Toto in a situation where he knows he has to progress his junior driver so has to let Bottas go.
These contracts set years before you HOPE the driver can drive for you can be limiting in so many ways.
The "dangerous precedent" is that the teams need to treat drivers as more than (as Edd put it) indentured servants.
Russel entered F1 in 2019 and joined merc 3 years later that's not instantly
" In the end this is a business and..." From a business standpoint, Alpine dropped the ball when they dragged their feet over a "Terms Sheet" from November 2021, and didn't get an actual F1 contract signed. Not under contract? You're a free agent that can go anywhere.
@@dubster82 well piastri didn't even break a contract. They screwed him and what he did wasn't breaching anything.
Kudos to Mark Webber, top management from an experienced driver who clearly understands the pitfalls to avoid and has managed to get the best for Piastri
It’s not right that teams expect drivers to wait for a seat that may not ever come. And as for costs, well, that’s not the driver’s fault that the current FiA structure is so costly.
but how would you fix it? outside of just not giving drivers many seasons and constantly cycling drivers their are only 20 seats, and even if multiple teams join it will still only be 30 seats or less. you're always gonna have people waiting for seats. its just a consequence of F1 today being so popular you have tens of thousands of drivers across junior categories competing for literally 20 seats.
@@realyopikechannel well with any luck the budget cap and no real negative change in how much advertising/sponsors bring in, we could see less pay drivers. This opens a bit more space to drivers to get into f1 quicker. When you have bright new talents who may not want as much pay as existing drivers just to get in, this will always keep teams on their toes to keep bringing in the best talents, while also keeping drivers aware that they need to perform at their best at all times.
EXACTLY! & the big end of town has always had control of the house keys .... Suddenly the kids get hold of the keys and it's PIASTRI Time!!!! ohhh Yeah!
@@realyopikechannel I'd have the FIA fix the super licence system so that F2 and F3 aren't the only realistic path to get into F1.
If F2 has to compete with other series they will be forced to bring down their costs in order to attract talent and thus F1 teams wouldn't have to invest so much money into F2 and F3.
@@louiscypher4186 great answer, get rid of the formula feeder series monopoly to force them to compete with other series. The libertarian approach, I like it.
Mercedes just fears one of their juniors will slip from their lineup too.
The whole situation was on alpin and oscar did nothing wrong. Toto is siding with alpine, who were ethically in the wrong
Merc doesn't care about their junior drivers
there's literally ocon and Goerge all in long term deals in other teams. and that's without a second team
@@cdeppracing216 what an in-depth insight into the inner workings of Mercedes... got any other drops of wisdom spraying from your ass?
Mercedes thinks anything that might threaten their success is “bad for the sport.”
Sure have done a lot of complaining this season 😂
How original… :D
As if Mclaren and Piastri are a star combination that will challenge Mercedes 😂
I read thinking along the same line "oh sure, Toto has an opinion about that as well". Flexi floors, budget control, new teams joining...
I don't follow.. how would this threaten their success? This entire story is about punishing feet-dragging on contracts... which I think Mercs only do with Hamilton because he's Hamilton. All this will do is force teams (as was stated in the video) to either review their contracts or their junior programs to ensure they get the benefit from the money they invest in young drivers and not other teams...
He wanted to be on grid for 23. Renault weren’t offering him at the time as they where trying to sign Alonso on a 1+1 deal. So he went to look else where. I see no problem in what he has done. They where telling him what he wanted to hear that it.
Maybe 2025.
If Alonso hadn't left Alpine, we wouldn't even be talking about this. From everything I've seen, Piastri going to Alpine wasn't an option. With Ocon and Alonso guaranteed drives for at least one more year, Piastri was just going to be another shmuck begging for a chance, so the argument of loyalty and integrity holds absolutely no weight. Piastri had a choice to make; Sit and watch everyone else race for a few years, or go get himself into a seat. He chose the latter and I cant say I blame him.
Toto is mad because he did to George what Alpine would do to Piastri.
Toto got George a seat in f1 his first year after f2 what do you mean
Lol
Not ocon though...Dude went jobless in one season
@@mrboast2826 ocon got strolled there’s no controlling that
Can you blame him? Alpine had their chance, they kept him waiting for too long. Williams is not a bad place to start your F1 career but if you can get in a McLaren, why not...
When Vettel decided to quit F1 and set the wheels in motion it was already too late.
He would have signed a loan deal for 22 at Williams in a heart beat but where is he at the moment sidelined because Alpine failed him. This would be 3 year waiting about while Alpine don't want you in their car.
@@alexsmith32012 They didn't fail him. You wait your turn. Alonso is very old and he was worried about being promoted. Russell waited and now he's an exceptional driver up to the challenge at only 24.
@@adampetten5349 Oh did Russell sit out a year after winning F2 where did that happen??
@@alexsmith32012 Russell would have If Sirotkin wasn't fired and Stroll took off. Latifi had a Seventh last year along with stacks of cash.
The point is Piastri was by far the biggest phenomenon in the Alpine system. Given Alonso's advanced age he should have known.
My point from the previous video still stands regardless. This is all on Alpine and their colossal management fuck up, who have so far only ever managed to get a single driver from their program on the grid, and only on the condition of a free agent for Alfa Romeo.
X
IMO they got the outcome they paid for. They knew Piastri was looking, and knew that their contract didn't bind him, and *still* felt it worth their while not to act. Only when Alonso dropped his bombshell did it suddenly occur to them. It's shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted.
@@grayaj23 but even then, Piastri had told them in June he had signed with McLaren for 2 years, so why wouldn't Alpine give Alonso the 2 year contract he was wanting... Alpine is a mess
@@hbrown689 My guess is that they had negotiated with Redbull for Gasly months ago. The didn't want Piastri or Alonso, but because Herta's superlicence is a longshot they wanted them as back up plans in case it fell through.
When they found out about Piastri's contract they initially weren't too concerned because they thought they could stall Alonso long enough for the FIA to make a decision on Herta.
Then Alonso left and they panicked.
I bet they regret extending Ocon's contract
Remember guys: If Toto gets mad at something, it means it's something good for everybody else.
Nah, in this case it's a danger to Mercedes' bottom line as well as the other giants that (try to) hoard talent. This is good for established talent. The real danger I see is to younger talent that now may get more restricting and smothering contracts as their only option to progress through the feeder series.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... sorry you had me ROFC! 👍
@@OrangePukeko OR..... its better for the driver market as they will see competing offers from other driver programs? (not a criticism just a thought for the conversation)
I don't really feel bad for any team as far as the contract circus. if they really valued his presence they should have written a different contract. It's hard to feel bad for organizations that throw people to the ditch so frequently, it's a common thing in all professional sports.
Toto Wolff is worried about everything that challenges Mercedes
"Team principal prioritises his team's self interest" is not the shocking comment you think it is
@@howiieb It wouldn't bother so much if he wasn't pretending he has some moral high ground.
@@alimanski7941 he really didn't, you just don't like him. he said teams need to be more careful with how they write their contracts as drivers will find the holes in them. you did watch the video I presume?
Yuppers
@@howiieb Do we really need to watch the video to understand Toto is a whiner?
When Toto say "bad for F1" he means it removes one of his advantages.
The rich teams don't get to stockpile drivers and remove any choices they have.
A mechanic doesn't have to hang around at the workplace that helps with the apprenticeship.
You don't get to extend contracts in perpetuity, just because the employee was good one...and you want to benefit without risking a longer contract to start with.
Toto wants slaves...not drivers.
THANK YOU YES!
@@valerierodger7700 So that would be risking being locked in to longer contracts to start with.
typical german!
All alpine had to do was offer him a seat not string him along. He had a career to think of
I mean, they kind of did. He denied the seat.
@@Gofex1337 yeah. After he'd already left
@@Gofex1337 he didn't deny the seat. He signed with mclaren way before all of this kicked off. Back when they were trying to get alonso to sign a 2 year deal. At the time he signed for mclaren there was no seat on offer for him to reject
@@Gofex1337 They had no intention of offering him a seat until Alonso signed for Aston. By then, Piastri had already signed for McLaren. Its their fault for trying to string two drivers along.
All Alpine had to do is hire a Law firm for few thousand dollars to just write a fucking contract for him.
"Why spend Few thousand dollars for something when we can waste half a million?" - Alpine probably.
I think Alpine stuff ups started when they signed Ocon on a long term contract. With Piastri coming through they needed to make a decision between Alonso and Ocon and keep the other spot free for Piastri. They signed Ocon long term but then wanted to keep Alonso and Piastri too, and it all blew up in their face.
If you look into the detail, this much more about Alpine cocking up than Oscar doing anything wrong.
If you look at the detail it's ONLY Alpine cocking it all up and Nothing to do with Piastri!!
@@nobass_stub1394 it's Piastri. He won F2 easily and should have known he would have been promoted soon with such an ancient driver in one seat.
Real rich coming from Wolff. The only dangerous precedent that’s been set is, you’re only worth is if a F1 team deems you so. Ocon, Weherlin, Vandoorne, Dyvfrs, all passed along by MERCEDES! Piastri was preventing that. Besides Alpine view if it’s worth is WAY over inflated. Wait at Williams to get into a mid field team!
Vandoorne was a McClaren driver, not Mercedes (before FE at least).
@@andrewcarter9649 De Vries was also a member of McLaren program
@@mertcalc3259 I know, and rightfully dropped after underperforming for several years.
Seems obvious that a significant investment in a driver would require a strong contract to protect that investment 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
You know what? Alpine deserved this. Piastri was the f2 champion and had literally nothing on the horizon for the foreseeable future. That’s unacceptable.
They were thinking they can fool him with a second seat at Williams (like Russel had to endure for 3 years) with no guarantee they’d offer something more substantial. And to be fair the Alpine team isn’t promising they’ll compete at the highest step of the grid.
So he was doomed to drive the worst car for an indefinite number of years (until Alonso decided to move on) then join arguably the best of the rest, which is hardly exciting for a driver of his potential.
At least George Russel had the perspective of being a Mercedes’ driver (lol 2022 season) but Alpine? Nah.
The real hero in this story was Alonso who made the move to Aston Martin, thus leaving a window open on how dumb that team is being managed.
I love to think that Alonso just wasn't happy how alpine treated him so he decided to pull that on them.
It seems like a lot of people don’t understand the purpose of an F1 teams junior program. It isn’t to get drivers ready for F1 or help the future of the sport. It’s investing in a young talent that the team hopes will payoff one day if that driver turns out to be great. It isn’t out of the goodness of their heart. They don’t have hearts they are businesses making investments.
The problem Toto points out is true. If this kind of thing keeps happening teams will stop investing in young talent over fear they will get burned. That’s bad for everybody
Spot on. This is a case of Piastri just pissed in the pool and now everyone has to swim in it. So many plebs here just want to shove it to the big man and can barely think for themselves.
Absolute crap Jason! Alpine have themselves to blame over not getting an F2 & F3 champion they helped pay for into F1 ASAP. They had a chance to promote him in 2022: went and extended the mediocre Ocon's contract and kept the 40+ year old Alonso. Their plans for 2023 Jason? Keep the mediocre Ocon and extend the 40+ year old Alonso's deal. Best case scenario: they MIGHT get Piastri a Williams seat for 2023 (a completely rubbish backmarker!), and he'd (maybe?) get a shot at Alpine in 2025! Can you actually blame Piastri???
You're also talking about a guy (Toto) who likes having ex-F2 champion Nyck De Vries by the short & curlies. De Vries is STILL waiting for his F1 chance at 27 years old!!!
@@mikespearwood3914 I’m not saying that Alpine didn’t f up. And if Toto could have found a team that wanted de vreis he would have let him go there. Just like he did ocon. Their weren’t any open seats from de vries. That wasn’t Toto’s fault. You want to blame Toto for that but what team would have taken him if Merc released him from his contract?
All I’m saying is that if teams feel they can get burned after supporting a driver they may stop supporting them or support fewer.
This is probably all won’t even matter because other team won’t screw up contracts like Alpine.
You can’t really argue against the fact that teams want a return on their investment. Not even staying I agree with treating people like investments but that what they are to these businesses/teams. You’re looking at it with your emotions
@@mikespearwood3914 Mediocre Ocon. Look how Van Doorne and Massa and even Kimi did against Alonso. Ocon was right there with Perez straight off. They fired Hulkenberg for Ocon. They're not going to fire Esteban 1.5 years later for Piastri who may be a Hamilton or barely better than Jolyon.
Esteban has their first modern era win. It's fortunate you're not in a decision making position
@@mikespearwood3914 people complain they dropped Bottas others that Russell had to wait so long. There can be many cross purpose situations in such a competitive environment.
Some say they should have broomed a very fast Alonso at the end of this season to keep Piastri. You want to fire Ocon who is mediocre in your imagination only.
This isn’t a problem with the junior driver system, it’s an Alpine problem and a problem with how their junior program works. Since 2016 they’ve fielded 8 Renault backed drivers in just Formula 2 and as of the start of this year… only 1 of those 8 has been promoted in the last 7 years. This is also just a case of Toto being Toto and chatting out his rear which is rich considering the last time a Mercedes backed junior made it to formula 2 was 2018 with Russell
And...Piastri did as well as Russell. Russell made the big team at 24 as an exceptional well rounded driver. De Vries won F2 but barely in his third year. Hamilton and Valterri were a great partnership but they couldn't keep George waiting even longer. You promote on ability. Palmer won GP2 and still was not good. A lot of those Renault prospects couldn't get their Super license by 30...Roy Nissany's goal🤣🤣
Great explanation as usual Ed. The devil is in the detail, Piastri’s trust and loyalty was tested by Alpine’s lack of rigour. He gave them the opportunity for 8 months to give him a contract.
There's a high probability IMO that when a team principal says "bad for F1" what they mean is "bad for my team."
This is not a young driver problem. This is an Alpine problem. The institutional incompetence alone that enables a team to lose both Alonso and Piastri nearly simultaneously speaks volumes. And I love Mercedes but Toto just wants Teams to hold all the power in the Young Driver vs Team relationship. I'm glad Piastri has managed to forge his own path and isn't stuck languishing in the backfield after already having to sit out of F1 for a season through no real fault of his own. Alpine took him and Alonso for granted and got what they deserved.
Well there is a young driver problem. Look at De Vries. He is now 27 and Mercedes keeps dragging him around dangling the F1 carrot in his face when there is no way they actually going to ever put him into their team. If Bottas would have been better I don't see them getting Russell into the team.
From everything I’ve seen Piastri made it clear he wanted to drive for Alpine. But they made it clear they didn’t want him to drive for them 🤷♂️
If teams don't want to lose a young driver after investing heavily in them, maybe actually sign a contract with them and give them a seat, rather than keeping them on the sideline as 1) a backup for if your "real" driver moves on and 2) not on your rivals' teams.
So fire Ocon on potential?
No precedent, just poor commercial skills in Alpine. Alpine’s management are to blame here.
I think having Piastri's contract ending in the middle of the summer was a major oversight by Alpine.
Let's not forget that Zhou was an Alpine Junior Driver before he went to Sauber Alfa Romeo, of which Sauber themselves has their own Junior Drivers Academy.
To be honest, it seems pretty pathetic to think of Otmar's words after the result of all of this. Asking for loyalty only because they could not figure out what to do with Alonso. This kind of leader is the last type of person most people will trust.
The bit that Toto seems to be ignoring (or not aware of when he made those comments) is that the CRB revealed Piastri had been waiting for a promised contract from Alpine since November 2021. Had Alpine actually signed him to a contract in the timeframe they had said they would, none of this would have happened.
If he meant that much to the team, they would have had a contract on the table in November/December.
Ya snooze, ya lose.
I hope Piastri has a fantastic career. Onwards and upwards
Alpine: **Refuses to let Piastri join the team**
Piastri: **Goes to another team**
Alpine: "How could Piastri do this?"
It’s not setting a precedent for young drivers to make their own decisions, it’s a wake up call that teams actually need to communicate with their rookies. Alpine lost Piastri because they ignored him, so when Piastri saw a seat opening, he took the chance.
I think there's a fundamental problem with Formula 3 and Formula 2 - I think the limit there should be decreased to just 2 seasons (3 if you have finished in Top 5 at least once), which IMO is enough to evaluate if the driver is ready for the next level. That way the F2 field for example will not be cloged up with the likes of Ralf Boschung and others who stay for far too long.
This also shows more teams are needed to provide more seats
Even if it's not more teams, let teams have a 3rd spot maybe? The constructors don't want to dilute the prize money. I get that, but 20 isn't enough spots. In the 80's and 90's, there was 30+ cars. Maybe you only let 22 or 24 qualify? I don't know.
Thank you so so much for this critique of Alpine and of Wolff's comments. Everyone knew Alpine put on their oversized shoes and rainbow wig entering this saga, even before the CRB decision. How anyone can criticise junior drivers or Piastri for that matter off the back of this is absurd. If Alpine had any clue they would have signed Piastri at the earliest opportunity when it became apparent Alonso did not want the 1+1 deal, and if they had any decency they shut up about loyalty and their investment when they have fundamentally failed to secure their interests and services of either driver. With Alonso saying his move was motivated with irregularities within the Alpine camp, this critique just cements both drivers decisions to leave them as being the correct move. I would not be surprised if they end up going backwards next year!
It just indicates that when a team has a talent like Piastri they need to give him the shot. They should have been pushing Alonso out for him for 23 at the start of the year.
Or not sign Ocon to a million year contract last year. Alpine failed Piastri for this year remember. If they wanted to loan him to Williams that should have been done for 22 then Alpine would have actually done their job properly
They spent millions on him as an investment. But didn't lock him in. That's their fault, not his. It's nice to see a driver take control of their own future.
Ever since Benetton snatched Schumacher from Jordan, teams should have been vigilant with their contracts. Alpine hasn’t been straight when talking to the media about the contract situation and have been playing the victim. Alpine messed up, if they really wanted Piastri, they should have locked him down with their lawyers
Finally a sober explanation of what happened with Piastri. And contrary to Otmar alluding to Piastris lack of integrity it appears the opposite is true and the only reason for Alpines sudden issue with Piastris future is the unexpected exit of Alonso.
There definitely needs to be more clarity and trust between teams and it’s junior and reserve drivers. It needs to be a mutually beneficial relationship and not one in which one gets manhandled by the other. Wolff is worried about his junior drivers seeing Piastris move as a potential for THEM to leave, but that wouldn’t be the case if Wolff didn’t believe that his drivers were solidly his. Almost sounds like he has no plans to put them in a future seat and instead poach other drivers from other teams. Alpines reluctance to choose between Alonso and Piastri caused them to lose both and they have no podium on which to stand and declare they’re the victim. F1 is a business and as THE RACE points out, Piastris move to McLaren is solely blamed on Alpine not giving him a contract and him then capitalising on the demand for his services. I feel sympathetic towards Ricciardo as he was essentially forced out of his contract but I have no doubt he will find another seat either in the paddock or in a different sport. And I have some degree of sympathy to Alpine as well as they were put in a tough place when they expected to have Alonso with them, Piastri signed with McLaren before Alonso left and then Alonso also proceeded to leave, and thus Alpine in that case weren’t watching their back, and when they turned to see what the noise was, the one in front got away. Overall, Piastris move has, in my opinion, virtually no effect on future driver moves. At it’s core, he was out of contract and signed one with someone willing to make the offer. He didn’t break a contract or any sort of agreement with Alpine and simply took the opportunity that was presented to him before that door could close.
Well done The Race for pushing back against the Wolf line.
Alpine didn’t give him a seat so he went and got one. Wolff is just worried that he might have lost Russell to something like this
Apparently he enjoys having De Vries by the balls too.
Toto being against something usually means it's generally a good thing
I don't share Toto's view that Piastri's Mclaren move sets a bad precedent. I find him somewhat exaggerating this case.
It's bad in the way that in the future, teams might not want to sponsor and pay millions for drivers to get the opportunity to drive karts, F3 or F2 if that driver ultimately goes to another team instead.
I just stopped by to say TODO WOLF has an issue with the McLaren-Piastri deal. NOT Mercedes. Todo Wolf.
Alpine and Otmar owe Oscar an apology for publicly questioning his integrity when in fact they were the ones playing games with his career
I mean, teams have 2 options to fix it immediately. Offer the young drivers seats in your team or don't fund so many drivers if you have no place to put them
The Piastri verdict is then essentially F1's Bosman verdict. More power to the drivers. Good.
Alpine's indeciveness was their own undoing.
An analogy for this would be “Corporation sides with other corporation’s stance over workers rights”. Alpine tried to have an obedient slave with no guarantee of getting a seat while expecting “full loyalty” just cause they paid for his development. They 100% deserved losing Oscar. Of course Toto is going to side with them…he also wants to have little obedient slaves who will even let him spit on their faces if it guarantees a seat in F1. F1 is increasingly becoming a billionaires sport and increasingly bureaucratic.
Funny how hundreds of millions of dollars worth companies are messing up contract terms like this lol
Toto Wolff be like: Nice engine you got there, Oscar. Would be a shame if it broke down.
new driver contract wording from now on: "We , hear by submit to a binding ..."
Good for Piastri. Hopefully a good lesson to teams not to undermine drivers for their own interests
I think Piastri and Alpine was unique because I believe Alpine wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They were dilly dallying with Alonso and no driver wants to deal with that uncertainty.
I think one of the most overlooked things here is that Piastri was working for Alpine this whole time... Yes, they funded his career, but also he gave them a lot of running data and development in the sim for their racing. They make out like they were doing him a massive favour but it's a 2 way street.
As with any business deal, bargaining power shouldn't be monopolised in the hands of only one of the two parties. I was pretty sceptical of the move at first too, but I feel the agency that Piastri made use of with the McLaren/Alpine situation is an important equaliser between aspiring drivers and their parent teams.
Toto's not wrong though, the risk is there's a chance teams will be more hesitant to invest in junior driving programs, but also the risk of far more constricting contracts for future juniors
HooRAH HooRAH.... Now may we please get a podcast covering ALL the apologies to Piastri and his team for the slanderous statements made in the public arena.... Or do they lack the integrity and honesty to do so... Wait what? What do you mean you cant sue someone for slander because it's F1?
Imagine if Alpine had fired him. He would have sued the crap out of them. Let's hope he's worth the bother.
Everyone gangsta about 'iT's LEgaL' until they realize it's usually the small guy getting bent over by legal agreements. Then it turns into 'legal terms are eeeeevil'.
Simple solution. Better contacts. One clause that says "if we have you under contract this year, we have first dibs for the following year."
Re-upload feels appropriate for an Alpine related video.
Great video, here's another suggestion! "Why the world fears that Latifi driving a racing car is bad for F1". Thanks.
So many teams sign drivers not from their junior programs and now the teams are complaining when the drivers look out for themselves LOL.
When teams are buying up talent to prevent others from using it and then effectively BENCHING them for season after season its pretty facile for teams to lash out when something like this happens.
Why are these huge F1 teams getting teenagers to sign contracts at all? Seems predatory to me. Get money out of the junior categories entirely.
Happens in all sports. Maybe 20 olds with Baseball. It's crucial to identify and develop Talent early.
Why’d the original to private?
Great stuff Ed. Anyone who is paying attention to the under 25yr crowd should already know they are not going to be pushed aside, patronized or played for second fiddle or a backup plan. There are plenty of industries right now that are finding out the hard way that the old methods just don't work with these youngsters. And you know what?- good for them! Too many corporations take "loyalty" to mean a one-way street and do exactly what Alpine did with Piastri. Let's see who is paying attention in the next 5 years, eh?
Have at least 3 more teams on the grid, problem solved.
Put De Vries in an F1 car then Toto can talk, Mercedes have invested in a young driver for what? A FE win for them to withdraw from FE, so they’ve wasted their money themselves 👍
Best video in a while tbh. Great synopsis of everything and we get to throw some shade at Mercedes and Toto.
Issue is not in Piastri's move. it in the cockup Alpine made. They have no allies on the grid, and couldn't atleast promise Oscar a place.
Remember, George and Charles was immediately promoted to Williams and Alfa Romeo right after their F2 titles. Piastri was not, he was sidelined for a year, then he had to wait for possible Williams deal for 2 years ... or he could just sign a deal with top tier team who ready to give him racing seat for next year and onwards.
Jog on Toto. Remember that corporations are not your friend.
Adding "legally binding" 4 months after it was signed is so laughable. Alpine just screwed up on so many levels here.
Nah, I don't think this will be so much dangerous for junior teams. The Piastri saga was a combination of bad management and bad timing: they didn't want to put him in the team because of Alonso's presence, but neither wanted to give Alonso the contract he wanted because of Piastri's presence. Piastri then tried to save his career going to Mclaren rather than Williams (and so, remain in a backmarker team for 2 or 3 years)...
If anything, Piastri’s contract should put all teams on notice that either you utilize the talent you have or risk losing it. No locking young drivers in ironclad contracts to prevent them from being able to race and if driver academies are an expectation of blind loyalty then maybe they should go away. There’s already a history of too many drivers taking up seats that should go to deserving talent (Stroll and Mazepin for example).
As other people have pointed out all of these contracts and lock-downs hurt the drivers, the sport, and every team other than the ones who have the money to horde drivers or stash them in other series like F2, FE or IndyCar. Every driver should be free to sign with any team they want and signing a "reserve driver" contract or "young driver" contract should always be null and void when a race seat is open.
Why has Gasley been locked down this entire time when it's clear that Red Bull doesn't want him, they just don't want him driving for a team that doesn't pull off the road in front of them.
I know he won a race, but how did Ocon become indispensable? If Piastri is a Verstappen-level talent why the heck is he the one getting shipped away to Williams FOR TWO YEARS. McLaren didn't let a freak race win cloud their judgment. All this underlines F1's need for 2 or 3 additional teams. F1 is losing drivers with the potential to IndyCar because of pay drivers and a dearth of entry-level seats.
My thought exactly. If we had 24 cars on the grid, I am sure the lower end teams would happily take an F2 champ financially backed by a "rival", even if it is only for 1 or 2 years and then it's up to the big teams to either give them a seat with the main team or to release them from their JDP. Mick Schumacher is a perfect example. Coming from the Ferrari academy, got two seasons with Haas, Ferrari doesn't seem convinced enough to keep him, so they might let him go. They got him into F1, now it's all up to him if he can hold on to it.
So many great drivers started in back-marker teams and through showing their talents they got the chance in a midfield team and later in a top team.
The first driver to really skip this process (at least in my mind, I may have missed something) was Hamilton who was heavily backed by McLaren and got a seat with them straight away. But even Max, Charles and George (all obvious mega-talents within their respective JDPs) ALL got their first seat in a "B-Team" (Torro Rosso being the only real B-Team, but the other two still very much influenced by their engine supplier) and had to prove that they deserved to drive for RB, Ferrari and Mercedes respectively.
Pay drivers always have been part of F1 and as long as they use up only 1 seat of a back marker team and help keeping it afloat so the other seat can help grow a talent, F1 wins long term.
Toto has lost his cleverness ability with his age and 2021 trauma. If something is not working is mercedes favour or lulu's favor he feels F1 need a change. Winning 7 championships and still crying for not winning 8 due to Masi has affected his mental state.
Why is no one calling out the two championship Oscar won for the team?! Oscar and Webber told them we will not sit out another year. It’s on Alpine for wanting to keep both Fernando and Oscar. Toto is a baby as always
Alpine offered Piastri Latifi's seat and he declined and left. That is why it is not 100% Alpine's fault. I dislike Mercedes but Toto is right
The moral of Oscar Piastri is to ensure you have your young drivers in appropriate contracts that protects the team as well as the driver.
i think apline was trying oscar to stay in F1 through Williams for 1-2 years so that he can develop and then give him alpine seat like george russell and charles leclerc
And that coming for the man who manages teenage drivers while being a team boss at the same time...... Now that is truly 'bad for F1'.
If only Ricardo refused to leave McLaren. Then piastri still wouldn’t have a seat.
A bit dirty of McLaren to sign piastri before telling Ricardo and having him believe they would continue for 2023
He can cry in the 15 million he gets for agreeing to break contract.