Is the software developer job market OVER-SATURATED?
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Are there just too many people trying to get into the field right now as a software developer? Is it even worth it to try? In this video I cover what the job market looks like and see if there really is too many people getting into this field.
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Are you concerned about how many people are trying to get into software development? Did this video help alleviate any of those concerns?
Andy Sterkowitz those people who didnt get offers what was the common theme? Those that did but didnt work out, what were the downfalls? For those of us transitioning out of college into production...
I can’t say for sure 100%. I wasn’t the one doing the interviewing. The owner of the company would tell us about the candidates so I was only hearing of it third hand. I wish I was sitting in on those decision.
Andy Sterkowitz - I was concerned a couple of weeks ago. But when you gave us the stats on number of jobs year, in comparison of how many CS Majors Graduate each year (5:1 to 8:1 Ratio). Therefore, I’m more confident! 👍 Thank You for the Stats 👏🙏 A VERY encouraging Video!
Hey Andy, I tried to schedule an appointment using your link, but it says that there aren’t any available times. Any alternative ways of scheduling?
Hey CruzProductions....appointment spots fill up super fast. New slots open up everyday...make sure to check often.
There is a lot of jobs... if you are a senior with 10 years experience
@@crypticsailor bootcampers are bad, in general?
yoxter 3423 but you will work for peanuts to compete with rookies
Better get to work then, son ;)
10 years of experience, but don't you dare be over 25.
@@VistasNatureWildlifeFilms Companies that focus on 'culture' and just hire the young suck ass.
The job market isn’t. The amount of people taking udemy courses and spending more time posting about it on Instagram than actually working towards a job certainly is.
Keep focused on the goal and you’ll get hired.
literally me
is there anything bad about using udemy? I have been considering doing a couple of courses on there.
@@avasquezz22 learning from udemy isn't a bad thing, but people post it on their IG, FB and other media platforms is quite annoying... i am learning on udemy and it is worth the money...
andy vasquez if you don’t wish to spend money I would recommend Harvard’s cs50 course on edx.org. This ensures you have a good foundation and teaches you how to think like a programmer. You will learn essential skills for any specific career path you choose to take within programming.
andy vasquez he's not criticizing udemy, just the students that make the market appear over saturated with their boastful post.
I started studying programming on my own (no pressure to pass a class, just studied at my own pace). I learned more than I ever learned in any college class. But after years of studying on my own and applying for job, I was making no headway into the software job market, and redirected my efforts into accounting. I liked writing code and thinking about debugging code. From what I have seen, its not so much that programming is over saturated, as it is a niche field.
- a lot of people (non-programmers) have no idea what programming is.
- coding jobs can be off shored (I taught English, some of my students were eastern European programmers)
- For the time and energy you will spend studying programming, you could spend that same effort, into a finance or customer service role, and have a more stable job.
People do not care where software comes from ( Japanese video games are popular in the USA). But if you are going to work in customer service, sales, a bank, or be in a role where you talk to people face to face, it has to be someone local and can speak clearly, that is not a job that can be offshored.
Yea its saturated, but nowhere near as much as everything else. Good luck trying to get a good job in financial services, consulting, teaching, or pretty much anything that isn't a medical profession.
Medicine is far less saturated.
Teaching is ez if you go to teach at shit schools
Teaching? We are lacking in teachers
@@xavdest5481 maybe because it is a state regulated field. without meeting the formal requirements to get your license and keep it active you cannot work.
Not English teaching.
Self-taught Full Stack Developer here with few years of commercial experience.
If you trying to find your first job you most probably will need experience. Do something for friends and family or create something and let them try it out. Listen to their feedback (important) and note it. If they found some bug fix it and if they didn't like something change it and make a note of it (also important).
To plan your personal projects you can use Trello but try to not go the route of "I'll make the best AAA MMORPG or next Google" as that will not work (been there done that :)).
The important things during interview:
Your character - if they don't like you they will not hire you even if you have 10 years of commercial experience.
Your experience - anything that can show them that you know something. Personal projects, contributions to open source projects.
Your knowledge - if you applying for let's say MSSQL Database admin/developer job and you don't know fundamental things like inner/left/right join then you will not get a job. So try learning the basics of the field you want to work.
Your soft skills like being able to communicate with other people. That's where listening to your family and friends comes to the rescue. You need to be able to get feedback from other people and also receiving constructive criticism is important and being able to handle that.
But overall for entry stage role it's around 80% about you and 20% about what you can do.
And there will be always entry level roles as companies can't find a good person with more experience or they don't want to pay much for the role or they have lot's of small stuff that needs to be done and it would be a time/money waste for someone with more experience to do.
And if you already tick those boxes but still strugle to find job as you are failing interviews don't worry. I failed countless job interviews as I'm really bad with them but at some point I did get my first job :)
This was great. I've taken my time and spoken to someone who hires developers in NYC tech bubble. I asked very frank questions (off the record) about being an older applicant and got specific feedback about what technologies I would need to have a grasp of. Long story short, you need to be intermediate which means entry level full stack with a comfort level in Linux, SQL, and backend language like PHP or rarely Python. Web Development also requires complete proficiency in HTML, CSS, and JavaScript and they'd like you to have a handle on a Frontend Framework.
The problem is people have been sold the idea of the learning track taking a short time like the weight loss and fitness industry sells things. The correct outlook is that of self improvement. It takes as long as it takes. The careers that pay similar to this require advanced degrees that take almost ten years to earn and get certified for. It's hard for new doctors and attorneys to find jobs, so it could be worse. I've seen it repetitively from friends.
Circle back to things, doing a little each day. See it through.
Good advice, Andy. I can't see the need for software developers going away, or even down anytime soon. On the contrary: since everything around us is powered by software (not just the obvious things like computers, phones, and tablets, but also less obvious things like vacuums, mirrors, and even clothing 😊), we'll need more software engineers, not less. I know some people are concerned about competition from AI and autoML type of apps, but, in my personal opinion, we are a looong way from human creativity, wisdom, and intent being replaceable. 😊 Keep up the great work. You're helping a lot of people with your videos.
The market is not oversaturated. It's true that getting a job is way harder than it'd make sense. I'm a senior with 20+ years of experience and I still rarely get answers from recruiters. I think most of them are only building networks with fake ads. At interviews I often get tests which make absolutely no practical sense, most of them probing my knowledge about super obscure areas of coding, already in the realm of party tricks. A JavaScript example question: What will this print on the screen?
a = b = 3;
console.log(a);
console.log(b);
Now put your hand on your heart and say that this is an actual measurement of coding abilities. Or "coding" on a whiteboard. I've written an article about this on Linkedin and a lot of developers seconded me. The industry is constantly whining about the lack of experts, yet all they would have to do is come to their senses and accept that 1. devs are not circus artists, 2. there's no expert in the world who absolutely mastered every single technology there is. No, there's no such thing as a "React and Angular expert". These days I have doubts whether even full stack still makes sense any more.
If i answer 3 will i get the job? 😆
Syntax error?
So React was released 7 years ago and didnt really become mainstream until 2015. Demand for React devs really only picked up around 2 - 3 years ago... but if you say that you have 2 years experience with React they will deem that too short. 🤣🤣🤣
The biggest problem in the industry is lack of standards, thats why interview questions have NOTHING to do with the job itself. No one in the industry can agree on what constitutes "an expert"... I had a interview once where I was told that I wouldnt be a good fit for the position because I wasnt familiar with computer science theory, and they didnt even give me a coding test. Needless to say I was confused and I had to double check if the position was for a developer or a computer science teacher.
As for your interview questions, I'm convinced these they are setup so the senior dev can flex on total strangers who don't care. Also where can I read your article on LinkedIN?
How to get a job as a developer. Write the software yourself, then say I’ve already have the program your looking for.
That's not a job, that's a business
Q logic then even better isn't it?
@@Optimistas777 it's better if you can find someone that wants to buy it or used the software. Unless the developer is doing this as a side gig, has a lot of money, knows people that has a lot of money..
Post it on your github account, so that a senior dev can look at it and say "the program works but you didn't indent the code properly, therefore you are completely useless to us, sorry".
@@BillClinton228 no, not even that. It's the standard thanks but no thanks
Very much appreciate this vid. Looking at the market from a juniors stand point can be daunting and overwhelming at times but this helps gain some perspective! Thanks my man 👏🏽
Glad to help Daniel!
I’m a combo of self-taught, bootcamp, and unfinished community college. I’ve had plenty of options since I began working. Started at a startup and ended up at a global company.It depends on the city you’re in as well.
Also 6 months of interviews is just ridiculous. C’mon man. The time,energy,and money that took doing that could’ve gone into training. 🧐 I understand why such a company wouldn’t be a culture fit for many,
It's quite common: they want someone with the skills, but don't want to train one as it cost money and time… In the end, it cost them probably more and take more time…
You would be surprised by how difficult it is even to just find some trainable.
And then some you thought would be trainable, and still ended up not actually trainable.
There seems to be so many things to worry about in the programming field. Whether there'd be 200 people applying for 1 job opening, whether someone from America is competing against someone in India for the same job, whether one can't even find work on upwork because of competition or whether one is laid off because their skills are no longer needed; it is why I decided to keep my teaching job instead of pursuing the tech field like I was at first. In teaching, I don't make 6 figure. But, I don't need to. I still make a great living with travel during the summer and I don't have to worry about having a job or not being able to find a job one, etc. And my job is easy and fun too.
Unfortunately, it is over-saturated for juniors especially in front end development.
2-4 years regular to mid level is not any easier. Seems like 4+ is really popular atm. Backend and machine learning is where it’s at it seems (west coast that is)
I mean, consider everything that requires programming. Basically everything that has any type of computer chip in it requires some code to make it run. From a car’s ECU to a smart fridge. With that list only getting bigger and bigger, the opportunities for programmers are only going to keep growing with it!
The problem is that every person who can walk and talk can code now. Getting a entry level programming job is like working at McDonald’s these days and it sucks because I still have to finish my cs degree.
@@fadzilicious4411 Programming / Software engineering is a HUGE field, with many many many subfields. The most popular one is web development, and coincidentally it is also the easiest and the one that all the bootcamp grads go to. You are getting a CS degree, which is complete overkill for a web development position. Aim for positions that are more related to CS.. things like machine learning, artificial intelligence, data engineering, embedded systems, Augmented reality / virtual reality, etc. Those areas are far less saturated, because they are difficult.
Every career is over saturated. The main problem is that every company wants people with 10+ years doing entry/jr level jobs and dont want to give new people a chance so you have this build up of people waiting to land their first job in X career but cant because they aren't seniors.
Andy is my programming dad. Thanks for the pep talk pops
Lol!
Great video though. It is def a point that we all need to hear. Programming skills seem to increase your marketability even outside the programming world. A lot of places will hire someone in to do other things and also occasional programming issues that pop up. Small companies like you to wear lots of hats.
All development and IT jobs have 100+ people applying for 1 job. That is why I started my own company. I didn't study for a decade so I could bring in $12 an hour with no benefits.
I think it's because people are pigeonholing themselves into one specific field.
$12 an hour? You might as well work at McDonald's flipping Big Macs. Where are they paying IT and developers $12 an hour? Mississippi?
@@Imperial0666 Doing what you had dreamed of doing for $12 an hour is not bad! Coding is clean, less customer service oriented, less supervision, more freedom, no clocking in & out.... The list goes on. And more importantly, you are learning to code as you work on projects. He has proof of work and knowledge of programming. He can get hired by a company as a senior dev in a couple of years if he is willing to keep the situation the same. Or he can become a junior in a few month. Does flipping burgers pay you to learn coding?
@@kharChehre if you're doing this for $12 an hour you're selling yourself out and the whole profession out on the cheap. $12 an hour? Is this in the US or elsewhere? they are getting paid for more than that in my area. $25 would be the low end for this field.
@@Imperial0666 True that you are selling yourself for cheap. Yet, that hasn't stopped thousands of other people from doing it. Idk where he is located. That's low for U.S.
But it is what it is. The market can be very competitive in some places OR he is not good enough and too early for him to get a job.
What I'm saying is that getting paid $12 an hour for programming is better than getting paid the same amount or less to flip burgers. In my area, hourly pay for a junior is around $40-50
I'm a self taught gamedev, got my first job in gamedev after 8 months of being locked in mt basement coding 12 h a day. It's possible xd
SebOrigami I did the same thing and got hired after 6 months of locked in my room.
same 1.5 years started my own company in basement
Where did you look for your game dev job?
ma bro 💪
What do you do in your company?
I’m a career changer and beginning developer in the Baltimore area and haven’t had trouble finding work. There’s like 3,000 jobs on indeed, and that’s not including the DC area which I can commute to.
That's great to hear Scott. Cheers!
Were you self taught?
@@holmedw Mostly, but I did Teamtreehouse and enrolled in a community college web developer program (I'm only doing it part-time). I got into the program just because I know they always have inside job opportunities from businesses that they're affiliated with.
@@millertime6 That's wonderful man. I would enroll in mine but they're only offering daytime course and I need to work during the day
holmedw mine is online so I got lucky! It’s actually in a different county but I’m getting in-county tuition because my county doesn’t offer it. Good luck to you
50 K to start? It took me 24 years and a masters to get there as a high school math teacher! In fact, managers a Panda Express can earn more than I do.
@Tim Kaldahl sad isn’t it? Although no one goes into teaching for the money, the pay is not even in line with the cost of living these days. The people who are graduating from college with a major in education, have student loan debt that is more than their starting salaries.
you should get a highschool teaching job in Ontario, teachers her get paid 90k+
Agree with this video and to add... I think it may seem over-saturated if you think you'll make good money right out of the gate.
Plus, there are plenty of non-developer tech jobs that get your foot in the door and use your code/tech knowledge (devops, support, doc, pm, agile sm), which I'm sure many overlook.
(Hint pay your dues: I've written far more code for free to learn or portfolio, or very cheap, than code I've been paid for.)
If it gives anyone realistic perspective here's my career so far...
wrote my first line of Java in school 2012. Had to quit school to illness and start work to pay med debt.
Taught myself C#/JS, got a job making $35k (with commute) in 2014.
Taught myself PHP, got a job making $31k (no commute) in 2017.
Got lucky, got a job doing DevOps/CM with C# shop making $55k (small commute) 2018.
About to start wgu.edu to grad 21', got security+, studying for ceh and csslp.
Not spectacular pay so far but with 5+ years of exp, degree, and certs things will keep getting better.
Just had to keep grinding and ignore anyone who told me to quit.
2:20 "people we liked wouldn't take the job, and people that wanted the job, we didn't like". Maybe just pay more... Seems clear to me.
The job market is a complete joke. The entry level positions on Indeed, Monster, Glassdoor etc are requiring 5 years experience for 50-70k per year. Instead you could literally work in the US Army or US Navy IT department for 70-100k plus veterans perks and benefits. These employers have no idea what they're doing
I feel like the location is a big factor here too I have a cert in software dev from my local tech school studying CS now and had been self-taught for years before then been looking actively for the last 2 years.
Yes. Location matters! Don't let anybody tell you that it doesn't!
Someone posts on Facebook "i need a website" then you see 500 comments in the comment section within a minute.
It's saturated because companies don't know how to hire candidates and your point of there being a whole lot of jobs available in the country is misleading. First off, what kinds of jobs are those? Jobs only in major tech cities, only for senior candidates with 5+ years experience? Every Junior level position has 100+ people competing for that same job.
Secondly companies still don't know how to hire quality candidates. Amazon literally doesn't care, and they end up hiring people who don't know what a for loop is. Most of the candidates who have matching skills for the job posting never see the light of day. Honestly, if companies actually knew how to hire correctly, then maybe we would see a better stream of employed developers in the Junior levels and then my opinion might change. But right now, especially with all the big companies (with most of the jobs) hiring with sub-optimal processes, it will always seem like an uphill battle.
For me personally, I'm almost considering a career change after job searching for almost 2.5 years now. Is my opinion anecdotal because of this? Perhaps... but take it as you will. I might switch to being an Electrician, they still make decent money..
I understand the whole interview process of white boarding, leetcode, and system design, and perhaps some pair programming. But damn...is doing leetcode while having a job absoluteLy soul crushing esp when you are just flat out getting rejected in even landing the Initial online leetcode round with an engineer...
As someone with 5-10 yrs experience in mobile, I get about one recruiter reaching out per day. The problem is that none of them want to pay enough for me to get back on the interview grind while already employed.
Ben Craig yes because rookies work for less and companies mostly take cheaper developer
Question, What's your way of politely asking upfront what the Salary is? Recruiters will usually think badly of candidates who are in it "Only for the money" and that's the impression one can have if money is discussed too early, right?
@@jlecampana of course its for the money, what else, for peanuts? but first ask your current boss to give you more money.
jlstr oh, believe me, it’s not polite anymore. I used to be polite until I got tired of being strung along. I demand what will be interesting to me. Recruiters are not really in a position to decline someone because of their impressions, they’re just middle men between skills, hiring needs, and salary needs. Whether a recruiter likes my attitude or not is irrelevant to what the company can pay the position
I think it is a bad culture that has developed over several decades where employers consider it a burden to train employees. In the old days, employers used to train employees for the job.
Now all they do is just wait to find that perfect candidate and when that candidate works for some time and release that the employer they are working for is not implementing perfection in their workplace while expecting perfect candidates to drop on their lap, they leave. Then these employers go to government complaining we can't find candidates to fill the positions. And you know what happens next...
The lower skill market is extremely saturated. If only 60% of comp sci grads actually get a job in SE, it's probably worse statistics for everyone else
Is it really that bad? The college I go to in canada has a placement rate of 75%. Some of these people must not want to get a jon in the field but stick with thenprogram anyway.
Just started this self teaching journey and really appreciate these videos!
I have a fine arts degree. As an illustrator I have to deliver in all sorts of mediums, including but not limited to paints, pencils, python and even c++. You don’t need to go to school specifically for programming to be a software dev.
Is the market saturated? Yes and no. I personally got a CS degree, and i'm self-taught (and surprisingly well-versed) in the hardare realm. On top of that I got a security certification - On paper, I should be development gold, yet i've struggled with getting a job, usually because of "lack of experience".
We do hear constantly that the industry is in a more or less constant need for software developers and competent IT people...I've seen quite a few trends during my career:
*IT and development are often considered an afterthought or a drain on resources*
You do want a slim and lean team of competent devs or IT guys, but often these departments (especially the latter) are considered a drain on resources, as many CEOs and presidents onlylook at the bottom line. While IT and development are a huge driving force in any modern company, the departments often don't generate revenue for themselves - they do, however, often generate revenue in the other departments of the compan - whether by attracting customers or making sure that the equipment works.
*Recruiting agencies suck at hiring people for IT*
This often comes by the virtue that the agencies or a given agent does not understand IT concepts and paradigms. A lot of potential candidates do getlost at the agency level, as it's near impossible to explain to an agent how Program X or System Y works. They often fall back to purely looking at personality and soft skills in order to match you up. You might be an a*hole, but a brilliant programmer, like you might be a social hub, but only a decent programmer.
*The market for IT people and devs are not saturated, but the paths are*
By this i'm talking aout the huge amount of systems, applications, frameworks and programming languages. Take ASP.Net vs PHP or the huge mess that are .JS frameworks like Angular or bootstrap, or the vast amount of ways to implment agiven system (eg. Windows vs. linux-based).
This makes it hard to "mesh" with the requirements of the posting. You might be experienced in ASP.Net, C#, jQuery and HTML5, but you end up getting canned for consideration of the job requires Angular.js experience. Knowing C# helps nothing if you need to use Python.
"It's just about learning the new language", it's often said - but it doesn't lend room to get specialized in a *given* language or system. If you know C#, you can't become a good programmer of Python overnight, as the things "under the hood" of those two languages are vastly different. A nice tweak in a C# program does not equal the same gain in a Python application.
This ends up with companies looking for *quantity* of skills over *quality* of skills - just have a look at those that need you to be proficient in 5 or 10 programming languages.
tl;dr: It's the problem of having too much choice.
*Many IT people end up quitting their career*
This maybe because of bad company trends and traditions(eg. what Joshua Fluke mentions on his channel - like the "corporate kindergarten"), or because IT/dev departments often don't give the option of a proper work/life balance. Often you, as the candidate don't get to see this before you're knee-deep in work. Oh, and ou might find out that you don't get compensated for overtime as well.
Another problem is the "pro for peanuts" problem - you (as a company) either pay too little for the area you're in, or you end up mushing 2-3 separatejobs into one posting. Development, testing and managing Kubernetes clusters are separate jobs (for a dev, tester and sysadmin respectively), that often require separate skills.
*IT is too busy to write their own ads and run their own recruitment process*
Far too often, i've sat with a recruiter or a CEO of the company who knew nothing aboutthe field I applied for. Not a dev in sight, nor a knowledgeable CIO/CTO that knows exactly what they need.
This is just a few points from a long list, but it should cast somelighton the problem...
A lot of US job ad's aren't for US born programmers. They're for abroad.
Lol.
Because they know Wang and Pajeet are willing to work for less than you are.
The elephant in the room is the 200 thousand plus overseas techies taking new tech jobs EACH year. This includes OPT, H1B, L1, L2, H4 and other visas. If you count the continuances this number is well over 1.5 million. These new immigrants are at least 50% "low-skilled" and taking vital entry-level tech jobs (aka DevOps, scrum master, maintenance engineers, systems analysts). They generally work for larger companies as temp workers. There are large companies and government agencies that are well over 90% Indian and only interview outside their caste/ethnicity to prove they attempted to hire Amerians. Go to any job fair at a University and you will find several large Indian consultancies hiding in the corner.. Visit www.ustechworkers.com/ and www.cis.org. Nepotism has become the norm in the industry and the OP cannot see what the big companies are doing with their IT shops.
Yes! Look at most large companies, 90% is H1b
@Mike I would only specify certain Senators who depend on the business lobby. I am working in IT and our two contract teams are 100% immigrant Indians on H1B, OPT, etc. It is interesting that their coordinators and contract leads are Americans (some Asian). I think there will always be tech jobs for Americans in management roles. You just need to get enough experience to qualify for that then get your PMP certificate. Join US Techworkers and counter the lobby. Hopefully the Google union action will spread.
you must expertiise 12-15 technologies in order to have a chance....... if you are a full-stacker even more....
Thanks for the video, Andy. Honestly, I was feeling pretty down because of how negative another RUclipsr made job-seeking/working in "corporate" look. It made me stop studying altogether, but now I realize that it was pretty stupid of me to do so. Thank you for helping me remember why I wanted to do this in the first place. :-)
lol. Dont think too much on those videos, he had a bad time with companies. If they mess with your motivation, just unsubscribe.
@@Charlie_904 I guess we must be thinking about the same person lol. I unsubscribed not long after watching them tbh. Even seeing his videos be in my recommended section made me feel gloomy.
@@stephanie- Yea its kind of his niche now. Take it with a grain of salt. If it was always that bad why would anyone be a Dev?
Glad to hear Seri. Everyone has a different perspective about this. There is nonsense and garbage in every industry but at least with programming I have learned to really love the craft and ignore as much of the nonsense as possible. Best of luck to you!
I know who you're talking about. It started to get into my head too. I grew paranoid about layoffs at my job.
Awesome video. I think if devs can focus on, like you said, being able to demonstrate how they can and have brought real business outcomes and can have one (or a few!) special things that help them to simple stand-out (whether on their resume or in interviews) then they can do it. Sticking / Standing-out is def the #1 thing that devs need to do - and show that they can improve a business or delivery real results.
Loved this one. I'm a month out of my 480 hr, 12 week full stack bootcamp and struggling to get traction toward my first gig. I'm so passionate about this stuff and want to provide as much value as possible to my future employer. I'm learning React JS and redux right now to get into that market and fill one of those roles. I love your videos a ton, Andy. You're always so ground level and providing value. I'd love to talk to you and get your POV. Much love, Andy.
they didnt teach a framework in bootcamp?
Well put. I appreciate the information everyone is forthright with. I'm an artist who wants to produce more on the internet. And the mentoring he offers sounds good. Thanks all and you too Andy.
Kyle St. Jean Hey Kyle, did you end up getting a job?
Thanks Andy for the video, I'm self-taught developer too(Laravel/vue.js), I have almost 3 years in this field but I got my first job last January, and the rate is very cheap, I'm looking fro remote jobs but its really hard to find one out there, good luck.
Heard self taught. Stopped there. Skills and connections get you to the goal faster. If you got skills but aren’t building connections via college or something it’s just going to be harder for you. That’s how it’s been and how it’s always gonna be. That’s where the true value in college lies.
and how you build connections?
How ??
@@cautarepvp2079 your parents / friends need to know someone to get you into the industry.
i DONT THINK software Development is Saturated because there is tons of areas on the software field BUT Front End Web Develpment specially the Junior positions are saturated as fuck , with many channels , bootcamps and all these Online courses that have poped up in the recent years selling dreams to these kids and false advertising a high pay job that is easy to adquire by learning a few technologies and the Reality is SIMPLY another , in this field you will NEVER stop learning you have to stay ontop of the game to be competent and retain your job as technologies quickly change , and yes i agree with the comment below that talks about dont go for the money when choosing a job web devs spend Lots of times sitting infront of a computer coding with little people interaction if you are the type of person that is extroverted and loves to talk to people and move around you MIGHT not like this career and you will eventually burn out and end up hating it , i think its really UNFAIR for bootcamps and online courses to LURE all this people into the field EVEN people that are not cut for the job are being lured in making it more difficult for the real self taught web devs to even get a job , if you guys notice employers are noticing this and raising their qualifications even for junior positions as they being flooded with web devs wanna bes that arent really cut for the industry .
People think you can become a software developer with a two month boot camp. Boot camps are useless. You need at least two years of programming practice to become a good developer or get a bachelors degree from good college (a four year bootcamp) which teach you the fundamentals there are no shortcuts.
I started looking for work around a year ago I was self taught and had some college. Still no luck. In the mean time I was also finishing up my degree to increase my chances and I will finish this fall. Hopefully this doesn't turn out to be one of those worth less degrees. And yes my gpa is above 3.0
did you get a job?
It's only saturated with low-skill developers. Companies who need skilled and senior devs can't find enough.
Because everybody wants those skilled and senior devs. Really hard to hire people who everyone wants, because odds are good they've found a job they love.
Can't become a skilled or senior dev without getting a job, though.
Tech companies: "We only want senior devs with 6 years of experience! We don't want to train newbies."
Also tech companies: "Why are there so few people in the industry with real work experience!?"
@@ianoliver6828 Also Companies earning money like never before so they can’t claim that they can’t afford
Here in Texas most large companies hire a lot of H1b, and reject American workers.
prob because they have to pay americans more. if you get an indian to work there for $30000 a year, he will jump up with joy. Just how it is.
Worse workers are indians, terrible skills and low quality output.
So basically the answer is YES !! Since most people who came into your office for 6 months were turned down. Except a handful who didn't want the job but came there "for sports".
It looks like many people got let go at your company. Maybe you should do a video for new employees as to how they can keep their jobs longer than just a few weeks.
I’m self taught developer. I didn’t do bootcamp or computer science. I taught myself how to code then I started building stuff and literally I was hired this year out of 200 candidates because I could understand how to solve business solutions writing code.
VJ Grice how long did you study for before being hired, and also what tech stack did you learn ?
Rigo De La Torre I studied for 6 months. First I learned python and Django tech stack for the first 3 months and then I realized the job market wasn’t great for that stack in my location. For the next 3 months I switched to C# and .NET stack where I built 3 websites. 1 was an e-commerce site for a real client, 2 was a hotel management system, 3 was a real estate website where you could make a reservation for a home tour. I showed the employer my projects and they hired me because I could add value without my hand being held and they needed someone that could do mid level developer work.
VJ Grice for your 6 month study period, what would you was the amount of hours/day you put in? Also, if it isn’t too personal, what area are you in?
Relish I studied and coded about 6 to 8 hours a day. Sometimes I would do 4 hours on a weekend. I’m located in Florida.
did you know somebody in the company who could vouch for you?
All the job are going to India
I even think why I choose to study computer science if I cannot get a job ...
Saturated...absolutely... with H1B visa holders willing to work for 15K less than you.
Is that even a thing for starting level positions? legit curious
Yea but their English sucks
Trump is going to increase those H-1B visas, but he will protect your lettuce picking and coal mining jobs. 🤣.
All companies base their recruitment on get someone who has a good job somewhere else and persuade them to quit their jog and start to work for them instead. The key here is that Someone Else should fix, and pay for, their education and experience. Never spend a single cent on developing their own staff. Of course they have problems to get people. Everyone wants a free lunch. But as there are no free lunch, most will be without, complaining about dificulties to recruit. If you have problems to hire software developers: You are the problem. You need to change. As long as you do not change, your recruitment problem will remain, and likely get worse.
Exactly, it reminds me the electricity and the electron moving from atom to another, when I applied, so many times I saw that they tried to recruit someone because heir developer has been hired by the concurrent company
@Philip Ethan van Harreveld its getting tougher and tougher. I have a solid grasp of programming both frontend and backend, various published projects in java and c++ and 6 months into my first job. I had to take a job paying £980 a month (basically minimum wage) just to get my foot in the door in London, what is supposed to be the tech hub of Europe.
Now I'm applying to other places. So I have experience, published projects and not asking for much money. I've got 1 response in the last 2 months and that was leet code style test I can only assume they sent to every applicant. This was for £30k a year, asking hard difficulty leet code questions. Even some senior devs i know weren't able to do them.
These are all signs of a very saturated market. Meanwhile if you look at jobs in India, the vacancies don't stop. For £5k a year.
about 250k job openings, and about 30k cs degrees. every 6 months looked for someone every couple of weeks to see if there was a fit.
10k dollars recruiting fees to let ppl go in his second job.
4 :20 - if they pay you 50k, they expect 1.5 return. they need to figure out why they hired you! show your portfolio you can work, and show projects adn products.
compnies don't hire robots, they want energyy and new ideas!
worry on what youa re in contrl ( and range if possible)
That is great and all but job requirements are very scary they want you to know everything
That's what they ideally want. That may not be what makes them pull the trigger on a candidate.
In a recent interview which had TDD as high importance on the job spec I asked the lead developer about it and he was not really interested. He said it was something that can be a waste of time as requirements change so much during projects. So your dealing with HR spin sometimes when reading job specs.
@@lardosian Thanks for the insight. I was wondering why all job postings are starting to contain so many of the same trendy job requirements.
@@ryank6322 no problem, the comment by freaking above is also very true. But defo have a strong project in your portfolio that you can talk about if you get an interview, it will show that you can build something, have it live as well if you can.
Thanks for introducing yourself at the start it helped me knowing what's your content about^^
I hired a PHD in computer programming out of China, to help me with code, I paid him 5$ a month.
I wasn't cheep, but this is what you guys are worth, supply and demand
Why did you need to let them go? Lack of skills?
Started a fire in the breakroom microwave?
Had trouble showing up for work amongst other things. It is quite an interesting story :-)
FIRE GUY!
@@AndySterkowitz Having a problem showing up for work? Say what?!
@@AndySterkowitz So...they were unable to function as a decent employee period?
@@AndySterkowitz Did you offering them the salary and job certainty so they didn't have to continue doing their side gig and turn up for work late or exhausted?
Please do not give up I did master in biotechnology, I started my Job from an Indian consulting firm then got hired by Indian top consulting firm after 3 years working in I end up in MS . Only advantage I had was I was green card holder when stared now I am us citizen.. I am self taught program , I did very hard work when I got my first job I had 2 month old baby . I studied for 3 months by myself . I am working in top 3 companies in the world .never give up good luck .
If you know what you're doing, there are tons of jobs. If you just came fresh out of school, sharpen your skills by continuing to create programs while you search for a job. Learn to specialize your skills by branching off to specific areas of code development. Learn AI. Work on your computer vision to try and integrate computers into your daily routine. Record everything you do, even the smallest thing matters.
Great advice overall, even developers at a junior level like myself should be able to deliver on the job without hand holding
Many companies would prefer to hire an H1B over a US citizen if they can bcs an H1B is going to be way more subservient compared to a US citizen.
They are willing to work harder and for longer hours. Bcs if you let them go they have 60 days to find another job before they have to leave the US.
Does this motivate them to work harder and work more hours on more days to make sure they keep their job? Hell yes.
Junior developers have to compete with this.
I had 35 interviews in the last 3 moths and no luck, people want EXPERIENCE!!!
Where to get that, if nobody give you a chance?
They do want experience but it's not the only thing they look at, skills are the main drive if you have 0 experience but a amazing portfolio you will find a job.
That's right; build an awesome portfolio to compensate for your lack of experience and I believe you'll do great
A company gave me a project to build, a landing page from a PSD file, and they said i have 1 week, i completed in 5 and send them an email with the project, guess what they don't even reply....
Project link good-food-landing-page.netlify.com/
You must be in a highly competitive area lol
damn you had me beat! I wrote after 2 months in an Evernote note because I was curious like damn how many interviews I been on so far? before I landed a role I was about 26 interviews in. I had a total of 28 since my last 3 month contract ended in February. And up until that point I was about 8 and a half years of development experience. You just need to be the perfect fit they are looking for. So sometimes you got to lie a little. A candidate could have listed or had one piece of technology on their resume and or had some code on github or a project that you did not so they were a better fit. As a developer the knowledge they have in that little part could only just be working knowledge. Whose to say you couldnt get up to speed on the weekend before you were to even start? You just have to just keep building stuff in the technologies you want to work with. build all that experience.
Listen, employers have unrealistic expectations. So if you have the skills regardless of work experience, you're good enough. You're talented beyond what the rejection offers may say. Employers suck at hiring the right person for the job.
Tons of jobs in the valley. Most of which are taken by folks on H1B. To americans: move to California
I wonder if those jobs posted by agencies or recruiters are fake jobs. It happened to me before looking for jobs and realized that they didnt have jobs, they posted it just so hiring companies would contact them when needed.
There are too many now. Everyone is teaching themselves to code from home during the pandemic.
As someone who have been through both Bootcamp and actual college education, telling people that you are qualified enough after three months of coding experience is honestly laughable (yea there are some exceptions but in general it is insufficient). If you can financially afford it, get a proper degree in computer science; it's among one of the college degrees that are actually worth the cost of higher education.
I wouldn't say it is that saturated as for example, everyone going to college for a BBA or an NBA, now everyone is a startup person or CEO, nothing wrong with it, but it just kind of devalues it after a while, and that's when companies start looking into school, GPA, accomplishments, my problem especially in the Michigan Market, is they still try to lowball developers by claiming we can get it cheaper in India or China or something, I'm like that's not how it works lol
Great information. Just subscribed. 💪
4:25 salary drawn $50K but company expect a 1.5 value return. Thats the interesting factor about employee employer dynamics. How long should the employee work at a higer value than salary drawn to show his "worth". My country is flooded with Indian so called "talents" who are not exactly cheap and I was offered a low ball salary on a 1 year 3rd party contract just to rub salt in. So rather trying to meet up the client expectations by going out of the way I played the system as I was a local and local engineers were scare to meet a certain "acceptable local quota" I was threatened to be terminated a few times but I know the client would not go through it because of my local status. Needless to say it was the less stressful employment in my employment history. LOL
I feel like this is still applicable today.. Thanks!!
yes it is!!! I called several city hr departments on average 250 resumes are sent to the departments that needed to fill a basic help desk position.
I'm learning how to code because i'm interested in it. If it happens to land a job doing it, that would be great. A lot of companies can use programmers so there are opportunities, but it won't be right away. Just be patient and learn as much as you can.
few rise to the top. ambition is a good thing
I appreciate what you're trying to do but this was everything but a boost of confidence.
maybe it's because I have this perpetual feeling like I'm just three months out of a boot camp even though I now have a college degree and three years of professional software experience under my belt...
I just don't want to be that two weeks from now guy that everybody realizes they had to let go. could you elaborate on that a little more are you talking about people skill or just personality.the reason being is I'm as good as anybody but I'm a little slower and I'm a little shy. I don't mind working through my personal time to finish the project if I'm on salary
From another comment: The guy was "having trouble making it to work among other things". AKA he was probably what is generally known as a fuckup.
35ish years, 46 years old, not easy... I code in my sleep, but there seems to be a lot of confusing "a useful library" with "must-have knowledge", which is also a clue it might not be a great place to work. I'd say the number one thing, even above skill, is to have the ability to beat your head against a seemingly immovable object knowing you are making progress... If you learned to code already, you know it.. if you play difficult video games, you know it. Once you are in, that doggishness will attract mentors. That's how it seemed to work with me in the late 90s. Bad but useful advice: "It does the thing" is more important than "it was done right and is elegant and beautiful" to people writing the checks.
Not easy to get a job for most people because they're coming from "boot camps" who have no idea what they're doing. While I'm involved in hiring and it's entry level I always prefer a college degree. They generally are able to figure things out better. I don't care if someone knows the latest front end frameworks that are going to change in a few years. We need people that can learn. And the people I've had contact with from boot camps generally aren't those people. Obviously there are exceptions though.
This video was less of self confidence boosting then sneakily putting that program at the end
Sneakily? I have a mentorship program. It’s on my website.
I got fired my first dev job in 2011 because a previous developer that had worked there before me, coded a sprite incorrectly so me being new to the company and also because they had a big giant wiki of how to do shit, but did not have a sprite on there, tried to finagle around how this stupid sprite was coded to try and get it to work in IE6 did not quite work. then at the end of the week I scrapped it and did it my way, the correct and universal way of doing that technique fixed it but then got fired that afternoon. They told me to come back when I get more experience.
I always hear about job openings where I live so I don't think the fields dead. My city even has meet ups for all sorts of computer science subjects. I recommend seeing if your city has meet ups too, great way to network.
Great video/advise... there’s so many negative videos out there that it can become a bit overwhelming and discouraging for those of us wanting to commence our journey into this field.
People are dying for half-way decent talent. If you can get yourself there in terms of a skillset then you have a good shot. That's just how I see it :-)
Hey Andy. As a self taught programmer how can you show you're a valuable, result oriented programmer that can excel in their first position without experience?
you have to have completed projects and you need to know the right people who can get you in the door.
Great video! did you do that all in one take? how many takes did it take to record that?
Jason Humphrey thanks! This took about nine different takes. Usually the first five are throw aways just to get my mouth moving and my brain thinking. 😊
Agree. Aside from producing for the company, "culture" fit is HUGE.
Aka gullible kool aid drinkers with nothing better to do than work 60 hrs / week on misguided projects
tutorial purgatory sounds like hell. glad i never been there.
I think those people should only be in the wrong place, applying for the wrong positions, with the years experience.
People graduating are still not enough to fullfil all that demand, I remember I was in college (Computer Science), my first semester we were 33 people, in the second one, we were only 7, the other ones went out to do something else.
My advice is BUY some books and read them and work through them with a compiler! You need to actually learn how to use the programming language!
I hate to be a Debby downer but to update 2023:
There are currently over 110,000 bachelor's being given and over 160,000 M.S. degrees every year in computer science from accredited universities alone. This isn't even including boot camps (which are getting better) and self taught individuals.
I would strongly suggest looking elswhere. If this was the early 2000s maybe mid 2000s sure you could get away with it. As it stands currently in 2023 there is no shortage of CS majors now working minimum wage jobs
This is why I changed my major so I'm not talking out of my butt here
There is a lot of jobs out there looking for 5 years experience even if the programming language is half that requirement lol
It really depends, it’s also a lot easier for us females in the job market
No, don't spread that lie.
How is easier to get a job for being a woman?
@@aquepaique because companies encouraging more women in tech field... a woman will be chosen over a man with same skills and proficiency thats todays reality
@@RN-xq2vh true
Can you do a video about income in the various type of work performance (freelance, company, remote, startup etc.) so how much can a new vs experience programmers make. This is very important before anybody ever trying to build a career at this right?🤑🤑🤑🤑
Thanks, man.
The way I see this is just a problem of perspective. Here in youtube is a big amount o developers making videos, which is good, but the thing is that some people when they see this they start to think like "If there are so many programmers in yt, maybe there will be a big amount out there". But, if we try to search people out of this comunity, we won't be able to find a lot of then. How many lawyers do you know? In my case only two or three, but that is because I am not involve with them, but i know that those friend of mine will know a lot of more lawyer, obviously (I know it's not the same case because there are more lawyers than programmers, but i think you got the point).
I had an interview today. I feel horrible about it, and trying to my mind out of it. I will focus on my project and practice lots of interview questions.
Stop coming here! We're full!
I'm now looking for an internship just to get job experience. There have not been lots of job postings since covid. Lots of companies are hiring freezing right now
Are we over-complicating the hiring process?