Fun fact I originally had the criminal caller sound like my mum but my mum watches my videos and she's awesome and I didn't want her to feel bad so I changed it to my grandma cos she's dead so no worries there. Anyway *GRAB* *YOUR* *CZEPEKU* *MAPS* *HERE!!* www.patreon.com/czepeku/posts
You should definitely do more playtests, more videos, and don't forget to send them your feedback! This was very informative and you raised some great points. Thanks for all you do!
So nice ro see my favourite youtubers dropping a comment for DC20 on a daggerheart video! I hope I see one of you talking about DC20 ;). Love what you do M.WorldBuilder!
This confirms some of what I was already thinking about Daggerheart and really paints the best picture I have seen yet on what it would be like to run! Thanks for putting all this work into this breakdown, and thanks for the props you give DC20 on being an Evolution! Definitely high praise!
I'm looking forward to DC20. I hope you can carve out a spot alongside the heavy hitters. Developing at the same time as Daggerheart and MCDM has to be wild.
Yeah, I really Hope that, by the end of this, we have at least 3 great spiritual successors of D&D with different gameloops, mechanics and styles of play
Definitely interested in it's development. Hopes and wishes it lands amazing! BONUS ROUND: I watch and would like to recommend Dave Thaumavore RPG Reviews if you haven't heard of him for inspiration to at least offer Variant rules for different types of games if not for core rules... Especially liked the clear language of his last review The Contract. Take care and bye 😃😇❤️
A note around 9:00. When talking about the enemies that resisted physical. I believe these are the final enemies of the encounter, and Resistance halves damage dealt (rounding up) before applying to thresholds. It should also be noted that example Adversaries in the Manuscript (Handbook) do show Adversaries with stress. So I believe the normal rules of damage below minor threshold would apply to adversaries as well. They would take stress until they tap out at which point they would take HP.
just seems like an enemy you wouldn't have out solo, let the party learn they are resistant so spellcasters can focus that one and the physical damage focus another.
Given my experience with Daggerheart, I agree heavily with 2 sentiments that you touched on; there is an issue with resource overload put upon the GM, and that there are baked-in game mechanics that reward players for not engaging with the setting.
The first item you mentioned is going to kill DH in my local community. We struggle to find 1 DM who is willing to prepare for a bi-weekly session. And there are 50 players waiting for a DM.
@@kinjunranger140 100% - Daggerheart gives a lot of power and responsibilities to the GM. And if a TTRPG relies on having experienced individuals for it to function smoothly, it's doing a disservice to the TTRPG community as a whole.
Sounds exactly like MAtts (current) GM style. Take all the work off of your palyers shoulders and no matter how much they ignore your world and fuck around you still have them succeed.
One question with how much work it is on the DM is will that go away with more familiarity? Not like the DM ever gets an easy easy ride and the first time you DM anything probably feels overloading as you don't 'just know' how it works and what to do on the mechanical side of the game, or what fits within the lore of the world (if its not your world) etc. Most folks have been playing 5E and other very similar D&D like games where the rules and mechanics are similar for years, the Daggerheart system is a new twist (not sure if it really plays that well yet, but it is certainly novel).
@@TravistheGREAT03 I did get the vibe, while playtesting and reading the source material, that it caters to Mercer's (and possibly Spenser's) style of GMing and experience level.
So we did the playtest yesterday, and I agree with pretty much all your points but would add one more for the "pro" column. I had my group level up at the end so we could see how that felt. When it came to adding a new experience, all of my players without prompting added some that referenced something that had happened during the session. It made me realize that Daggerheart was subtly encouraging players to build their character based off what happened in the campaign, instead of building FOR the campaign, which i really like.
The Experiences mechanic is easily the strongest pro that Daggerheart has imo. Them being nebulous but specific, and yes, them potentially coming from what has already happened is something that I find so much more efficient and less restrictive than just D&D feats. They convey "vibes" and flavor, and I think that works great because the GM has no reason to not want to allow them if the ask in context is reasonable.
It's something the CR cast does so well in their main campaigns, it makes sense that they'd figure out a way to incorporate it into their format. It's awesome to hear everyone's stories!
I really liked how you could clearly see your path to lvl 10 on your character sheet. Also, each level felt like a gift compared to DnD where there are tons of flat levels with no gain.
This is something that RP centric groups/people do all the time of their own free will, but it's very nice to see it mechanically in a system that is in fact built for RP centric play.
Honestly this was everything I was hoping for for a review of this game system. No BS, covering all the pros and cons and what fixes could be applied in your opinion. Very solid! Thank you!
Your videos are always wildly entertaining. Whether it's broken combos, a ranking video, or talking about a new system, you bring so much joy to the community. Thank you
I love the cards because instead of a book and copying little notes from a book, I have a small deck of 5 or 6 cards at a moments in front of me that only take a small part of my area at the table. Super handy and I love it
@everythingsalright1121 It is like a merging of DnD 5e and PF 2e. It uses a 4 action point system, stacking advantage and disadvantage, mana instead of spell slots, and stamina that martials can use for abilities. What I described is a very limited description and if you would like to know more the Dungeon Coach has a ton of videos over it and a channel called Brandon Lane has some videos going over it. Treantmonk's Temple also made a video about it and if you are interested in seeing it in action the Dungeon Coach has hosted two one-shots that are on his channel. I can't guarantee it will be for you, but I like everything I have seen about it and have supported the alpha.
@@ChandlerBaze Very interesting. I'll need to poke around those places and take a look-see. I'm new to playing D&D, and me and my friends really like it, but we do acknowledge the system has many flaws and we have to change a lot of rules and homebrew many things. So we're open to alternatives
11:55 You're right about that, I want to get into TTRPGs but there is so much to learn, plus my friends who want to play also would have to learn it all. We've ended up making our own and just winging it and it worked okay, but I do want a proper TTRPG we can get into
I am glad you mention that it isn't a light system, because when I watched their video going over the system though I thought it has some cool mechanics I did think very quickly that this system is complicated and definitely didn't lean into some of the much simpler and lighter concepts I have been seeing in many newer systems.
So here's a weird thing - SOME of the enemies do have Stress scores, just not all of them for some reason, and there's a ton of guidelines in the combat/enemies sections about how to either create or improvise enemies (or "adversaries"). So the idea here about the enemies having Stress that they can take instead of damage is actually already possible, it's just not very well established in the premade enemies and it's not highlighted very well in the super duper dense guide book. My group is also really enjoying it so far, but there's definitely stuff we notice every time we look in the book that's like "OH weird I missed that, that changes things".
I would consider giving an enemy a stress if the PC misses with Hope, but I'm going to play it rules as written for now before making an homebrew rules like that
About the Hope & Fear system... You should check the Conan 2d20 system which is where Daggerheart took it from. They call it Momentum & Doom, but there the DM can simply accumulate Doom in a pool if he doesn't wanna have to come up with something right away. And it can also simply be used to add extra dice to monster rolls, if there's nothing else to be done narrative-wise.
Same, was my thoughts exactly when I heard about the system in Daggerheart. But from my experience gming Conan 2d20 has more ways to spend momentum then Daggerheart seems to for hope. So much so, before the end of a scene or battle, players rarely had 1 or 2 momentum remaining after generating dozens throughout the scene. Though given it is still in beta it could very well change.
Its good to remind ourself that it is still in beta, so as long as there are some good concepts, that's the main thing that matters, since the balancing of the game will probably improve itself later
Yeah it feels like a lot of stuff is written vaguely, or sections are omitted entirely, with the idea that "we don't need to introduce this right now." It'll be interesting to see how things evolve as we get closer to a full release.
Kudos for your review! This was the first review from actual gameplay I've watched and I liked the way you approached it, in a honest, sensible and fair way. Funnily enough, I watched your rules review video earlier today and though "Oh well, I wish this was an actual gameplay review, but sure look, let's watch it anyway". :) Cheers!
Couple things I noticed about daggerheart: 1. DM should have some fear tokens when starting combat so they can force players to engage if they need to. It gives some agency back to the DM to balance player engagement. 2. I do agree that there's a lot of resources.
@@Wither_kun Its CR, I GUARANTEE that they're watching these videos anyways. They both want all the feedback they can get, and are all fans of these various creators themselves anyways, as they've said over the years
@@Wither_kun I mean, sure, but in this specific case the entire design team probably can't really sit down to comb through hours of Dagger heart review content on RUclips. Especially since most of it will have a lot of overlap on points. I haven't dived into the test content yet, only made a character. But I'm sure the feedback forms are specifically designed with both survey questions, rating system and few open text box questions for a text dump. At least that's how these are usually done.
Combat in Daggerheart sounds like a nightmare to figure out considering that the average dnd group is composed of approximately 5.5 adhd-riddled children trapped in the bodies of four nominal adults.
It almost feels as if it’d be necessary for everyone to use the online character sheet to keep track of everything, and even then there’s so much stuff happening. Plus, if you did end up using the online sheet, good luck having the players stay focused with a device in front of them. :/
@@captainapac I'd honestly probably just buy a bunch of differently colored beads or something as opposed to using the online sheet. Leaning in to that board-game feel instead of shying away from it and making all the resource management far easier to wrap your head around
We playtested it yesterday and honestly combat wasn't as bad as I thought I'd be. It took some time for our group to get in the flow, but once we did it took less time than a comparable battle in 5e, which is one of our big gripes with 5e. BUT my group is full of a lot of strong personalities (not rude, mind you, just a bunch of players who aren't afraid to speak up) so if your group has some quieter players, I can see how it can become a slog.
I kind of agree. It feels like mathfinder and 5e had a child, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I feel that the Pathfinder and 3.5 folks will do very well with this system.
Maybe unrelated to the video topic, but I love Czepeku maps. Been using their maps for everything in my campaign and they’re gorgeous every time. Will be using their sci-fi maps for starfinder 2e when it’s out too. Great video, thank you for the synopsis, this video came out the same day I was thinking about Daggerheart too!
Hits the nail on the head with my concerns as a GM, it certainly feels like it was a game made for the show critical role. I do have concerns with my ability to run a fluid game of Daggerheart with the fear mechanic, despite feeling pretty confident to GM DND for the past 3 years. Though I do like the idea that every duality dice roll has a chance to either benefit the player or the GM's economy. Something I'm unsure on is, if combat is decided by which group has the higher HP and everyone know this, will that make encounters feel 'too simple'? idk like take that mystery from the players. Maybe I haven't done enough research on it (400 pages) and perhaps I'm off the mark. Obviously a great guideline for creating an encounter if you aren't confident with keeping players alive. As a player it sounds really fun.
"if combat is decided by which group has the higher HP..." It isn't. You misunderstood the point. What Daggerheart effectively does is merely limiting the roof of how much damage a single action can deal at a maximum. One-shotting a boss is basically impossible, so builds that try to deal unlimited damage aren't viable. Apart from that, the total hp on a side isn't any more a deciding factor than it is with D&D. And I'd hardly call it a mystery if a build focused on massive damage deals massive damage or not. That in mind, I don't see the final game having a whole ton of player options that can perform multiple attacks in one action. Probably also why a secondary weapon just boosts the main hand attack in DH. An entirely new attack might be OP, even at limited efficacy.
@@TheRawrnstuff, writes _'That in mind, I don't see the final game having a whole ton of player options that can perform multiple attacks in one action."_ If you want multiple attacks you just go again immediately -- all you have to do is justify it thematically. Taking turns is for pussies,
@@fred_derf You misunderstand what I said. You can go again immediately, but that gives the DM another action token - ie, that's two attacks for two actions. Not two attacks for one action.
I see what you are saying, thanks for explaining it. Perhaps some actual playtesting will educate me the best. I don't think I quite explained what I properly meant about the mystery thing, but that's neither here nor there.@@TheRawrnstuff
Great review. You have a methodical way of breaking things down and it's easy to follow. I’m excited for Daggerheart’s progression and would love to see more reviews as it gets updated.
Best review of Daggerheart I've seen, and some great feedback for the Darrington Press team - I hope they're watching! Share the love on DC20 too. It just keeps getting better and better!
Yes please more Daggerheart stuff. I love having multiple eyes on this system to critique it cause I'd love for it to be the next step in the evolution of ttrpgs and the only way to do that is iron out those kinks. Thanks for being awesome.
Please do more dagger heart content. I’d love to hear breakdowns of the character classes. What makes them different from the dnd classes. And what ability card combos there are
I'll say it again. Anything that makes D&D players try new systems is a win for everyone. If they can take one step to trying something new, the next one might be easier, and so on. There are so many wonderful TTRPGs out there than some people will absolutely love, and I want that for them.
Fantastic set of videos about Daggerheart! Really well explained, really well critiqued, thank you! I downloaded all the gack for free and will start pouring over it myself soon enough. But getting your initial feelings and critiques has been good.. Seems like there are some great mechanics in the game, and even some things (like the open initiative) that could be ported into any game, really. Yes, I'd love to see more Daggerheart content here! Also, SHOUT OUT TO THE DUNGEON COACH oh yeah! :)
The thing about dagger heart, is that it genuinely feels more entertaining to watch then normal dnd, like when I finished the cr one shot, I was left wanting an entire series with these mechanics. It's just simply more entertaining hearing the dm and players explain how everything they do works. And there's just something about fear and hope that draws you into seeing how combat will go, it's not just another battle, it's a constant climatic battle that can change in a second if someone rolls a hope and gives the big bad a powerful attack. I do see flaws but it's still open beta and can easily evolve into something better.
I'll be honest, I think a LOT of that feeling is just coming from the fact that it's a new system we're all wide eyed about and it feels fresh and different. Like we're discovering what is possible in real time as we watch. It felt the same way when I first saw Critical Role and had never played D&D before. Once I knew the system well, everything became much more boring to watch because someone saying "I cast crown of madness" didn't seem like some super cool esoteric thing you can learn as an awesome spellcasting mage. Rather it was now just another ordinary spell out of hundreds of spells in a system that barely makes magic feel like magic and doesn't give casters the actual mage experience
you’ve left me now wanting to give this a go, i do agree the cards are what makes this game feel different,id love to see you do more content on Dagger heart. love you channel man, keep on keeping on.😁🇬🇧
Yes dc20!!!! I love the idea that people are highlighting this game for the system. Not cause Critical role or WOTC or MCDM. Its much lower profille but its being mentioned along side these big dogs cause of the strength of the game design alone. To me thats very punk rock
as much as it is important to always try out things for yourself to make up your own mind and feel about a game, i wanna THANK YOU SO MUCH for being so thorough in describing your experience (and with mostly facts rather than opinions) to save me the time i sadly don't have to try everything out
I get your point about pre-picked experiences, they are way to really customize your character and make it yours. But the point of pre-made characters is that you don't have to worry about filling in anything, so I think it's fine.
This is the kind of information Critical Role is actively wanting to be found and told to them. The purpose of the open beta is for people like me and you to find the problems and help them make Daggerheart better. If you haven't already then you should reach out to them and let them know because they literally want whatever is wrong to be found.
Perfect, this is exactly the content I want, I want to know what the people in the know are saying about Daggerheart. I hope by the time Daggerheart is a finished product, your feedback will have shaped the game for the better so that a casual like me who primarily watches live plays instead of playing TTRPGs myself will want to drop money on it.
Thanks for the breakdown! My regular group haven’t been available to run the one-shot so it’s good to see what others think. Hopefully the team take the feedback onboard and make improvements. Can’t wait to dive into MCDM too.
Great vid - any time we get a greater explanation of a new system or variances we get a greater insight of whether this is a game I could play (noting we should always try it ourselves). More on Daggerheart please
it looks super fun! I really l liked the one shot they ran and watching character creation and would love more stuff! I was wondering about the hope and fear system and if it could spiral out of control a bit. I also don't think it would be horrible to have a few predefined fear things that you use in each encounter it sort of mimics lair actions then but still raises the stakes since it happens off of your roll
When My friends and I first started DnD (Back when we could all meet up in person), I got spell cards for all the spells in 5e. Having those spell cards helped us so much starting out instead having to pass the handbook to double check what a spell did. Each player had the cards of the spells their characters knew for quick and easy reference or, like you said, thumb through while to figure what to do in combat when it is their turn.
I think leveling up is a big benefit that a lot of people don't see with single-session playtests like this. The flexibility to create completely mechanically different characters with the exact same ancestry, class, and subclass means a lot of party diversity and offers a lot of mechanics-based customization that d&d 5e is sorely lacking, imo
Way back when Dark Sun released for AD&D 2nd Edition it made standard the idea of starting at 3rd level to have a character that wouldn't get killed by wandering out into direct sunlight. 4th Edition had its standard that every 1st level character was already a badass hero a cut above the masses-but the backlash was so strong that 5E went back to the traditional 1st level power structure.
Definitely appreciating the Daggerheart feedback as I am still trying to get a play group together for testing. Would love to see something like in depth class guides or class ranking, etc.
I'm super interested in the new daggerheart system and this has been super helpful in preparing me for the one shot i hope to run of the same adventure. Please do keep doing daggerheart content i love to see your takes!
I feel a lot of people in the comments need to remember it doesn't need to be a perfect replacement for DND that solves all problems for everyone. It just needs to give a solid alternate option outside of the DND monopoly. I feel that Daggerheart provides a lot more "realistic" combat than DND, like a lot of medieval history/accuracy nerds like myself might enjoy it more. The whole tiered damage system is more realistic than having just a number of hitpoints, especially the armor mechanic as well, armor shouldn't make you harder to hit, if anything your easier to hit but it just helps reduce damage which is exactly what daggerheart does and I really like that. That being said I do understand the whole point of this time is to get feedback so all the complaining hopefully leads to an even better game. Definitely want to go look into what MCDM made.
Please do more playtests! Since it's in open beta this is everyones chance to really make real changes to how the game works for the betterment of the game. I’ve been wanting to run a game of daggerheart and haven't really had the motivation yet but your video has really enlightened me a lot about what the game has to offer. Thank 🙇 you.
I really love the Daggerheart content! I mean, I'm a very curious Critter but don't have the Time to try this atm for personal reasons. So having this to really look into it and hear someone who's experienced und curious is lovely. I'd gladly see more!
Something I really like between this two videos about DH was that the cards (something i really like to use) went from an acessory to the most promesing stuff. Our dear youtuber really is able to go back on a point when he actually experiences it and that is the sort of thing that is lacking on the internet as a whole
Agreed, my table felt like fully fleshed heroes at level 1, and while it took them 15 minutes to get the hang of the duality duce and action tracker, I'm still finding rules I didn't know about. Tough on the GM, loads of fun for rp-ready players.
My favorite system that is easier on the DM is Son of Oak's "City of Mist". The manual even says you are more than the Master of Ceremonies (MC), you are a part of the audience. This emphasizes player rp importance and we've been having a blast.
Love your awesome work and the time and effort you out into this video! I haven’t actually played much less dm’d daggerheart, so take this with a good pinch of salt, but: I strongly believe that all of the points you made regarding it being more work and more stress - more prep and thought and more “scrambling to find/narrate things to happen” that falls on the GM, is in good part because it’s completely new for you too. Of course you are a grandmaster DM ;) but all the things you do without thinking about it in a dnd session, comes from the countless hours you’ve spent Dm’ing. just like everything else; when starting a new skill or Job or anything, its almost impossible to imagine how all this is going to be processed by our subconscious without much strain on our “CPU” 😂 but given enough time, it becomes second nature to virtually everyone. I welcome and appreciate all the love, work, and contributions brought into the DnD community, and am and remain hopeful that Daggerheart will be a huge sucess ✨❤️ :)
Loved the comments on the sauce for the system. I just recently got into ttrpgs (a little over a year ago now) and 5e has been my go to, but i really want to try daggerheart and your points on what to make it better sounded very reasonable. I personally loved the 'experiences' section in the character creation and how applying those (dnd) 'proficiencies' onto roleplay seems much more feasible (i mean, i've played a few games in which my brewer supplies proficiency hardly ever came into play) and having that way of phrasing 'oh maybe my X experience could help here!' makes it more fun and tailored. Can't wait to find a table willing to try it out :) Great content as always!
I was invited to do the character creation playtest but it ended up being too complicated for me to wrap my head around. I really enjoy your thoughts, please keep sharing them!
Great review. I am glad they are in OpenBeta right now so they can take some of these ideas that long-time GMs like you have and see about how to incorporate them into their system.
Super interesting to hear about, thanks for the video. I've been looking forward to playtesting Daggerheart so it's a nice heads up to have the downsides ahead of time
Using othello pieces to show action and fear tokens is a way to visualize how much action the DM have. Showing this in a bowl as Matt did raised my stakes and interest
This amazing insight to the game. Great feed back that I hope CR and Darrington Press hears. Its great we have people reviewing serious games like this to help the community out in moving forward towards other games.
I agree with the micro-managing "overload" that the GM has. But, regarding the rulebook of the beta version: It has a lit if pages, because it actually is written to be understood by anyone, even total RPG noobs. It explains things that every rpg veteran will simply skip. And, lots of pages are also just for the GM. I still think, after reading the entire pdf, that it is rules-light (compared to 5e).
Yeah man of course we want more daggerheart stuff! This is a really good take on the game. My table hasn't played yet, and I've kind of been dreading the "gm raise the stakes/fear" thing, but we'll see how it goes. Keep up the good work!
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Fun fact I originally had the criminal caller sound like my mum but my mum watches my videos and she's awesome and I didn't want her to feel bad so I changed it to my grandma cos she's dead so no worries there. Anyway *GRAB* *YOUR* *CZEPEKU* *MAPS* *HERE!!* www.patreon.com/czepeku/posts
😭
💀💀💀 dude...
Wow ... 😂
Throwing shade at your own dead grandma because she can't fight back... 🤣
😂😂😂😂😂😂
You should definitely do more playtests, more videos, and don't forget to send them your feedback! This was very informative and you raised some great points. Thanks for all you do!
Very much agree! The spate of D&D-likes coming out could all benefit from this same analysis.
Agreed!
Oh I guarantee the CR team has people watching, this video IS his feedback lmao. At least some of it
I mean honestly just amazing it's open beta because it's very open to the positive as well as negative critique as to how to better the system ^^
Solid review, and I love to see the shout out for DC20!
Hi Bob. I love you pal.
So nice ro see my favourite youtubers dropping a comment for DC20 on a daggerheart video! I hope I see one of you talking about DC20 ;). Love what you do M.WorldBuilder!
@@BIGBENMACDOUCEcan't wait for "crazy things you can do in DC20 part 13" videos
I also came to say Hi Bob.
This confirms some of what I was already thinking about Daggerheart and really paints the best picture I have seen yet on what it would be like to run! Thanks for putting all this work into this breakdown, and thanks for the props you give DC20 on being an Evolution! Definitely high praise!
The praise is more than well deserved. I can't wait to see where you go with it!
I'm looking forward to DC20. I hope you can carve out a spot alongside the heavy hitters. Developing at the same time as Daggerheart and MCDM has to be wild.
Yeah, I really Hope that, by the end of this, we have at least 3 great spiritual successors of D&D with different gameloops, mechanics and styles of play
More DC20 please ;)
Definitely interested in it's development. Hopes and wishes it lands amazing!
BONUS ROUND: I watch and would like to recommend Dave Thaumavore RPG Reviews if you haven't heard of him for inspiration to at least offer Variant rules for different types of games if not for core rules... Especially liked the clear language of his last review The Contract. Take care and bye 😃😇❤️
A note around 9:00. When talking about the enemies that resisted physical. I believe these are the final enemies of the encounter, and Resistance halves damage dealt (rounding up) before applying to thresholds. It should also be noted that example Adversaries in the Manuscript (Handbook) do show Adversaries with stress. So I believe the normal rules of damage below minor threshold would apply to adversaries as well. They would take stress until they tap out at which point they would take HP.
Enemies not having stress might be an artifact from an earlier iteration
just seems like an enemy you wouldn't have out solo, let the party learn they are resistant so spellcasters can focus that one and the physical damage focus another.
Given my experience with Daggerheart, I agree heavily with 2 sentiments that you touched on; there is an issue with resource overload put upon the GM, and that there are baked-in game mechanics that reward players for not engaging with the setting.
The first item you mentioned is going to kill DH in my local community. We struggle to find 1 DM who is willing to prepare for a bi-weekly session. And there are 50 players waiting for a DM.
@@kinjunranger140 100% - Daggerheart gives a lot of power and responsibilities to the GM. And if a TTRPG relies on having experienced individuals for it to function smoothly, it's doing a disservice to the TTRPG community as a whole.
Sounds exactly like MAtts (current) GM style. Take all the work off of your palyers shoulders and no matter how much they ignore your world and fuck around you still have them succeed.
One question with how much work it is on the DM is will that go away with more familiarity? Not like the DM ever gets an easy easy ride and the first time you DM anything probably feels overloading as you don't 'just know' how it works and what to do on the mechanical side of the game, or what fits within the lore of the world (if its not your world) etc. Most folks have been playing 5E and other very similar D&D like games where the rules and mechanics are similar for years, the Daggerheart system is a new twist (not sure if it really plays that well yet, but it is certainly novel).
@@TravistheGREAT03 I did get the vibe, while playtesting and reading the source material, that it caters to Mercer's (and possibly Spenser's) style of GMing and experience level.
Please share this vid with Critical Roll, this was super informative. As someone thinking about trying Daggerheart and DC20, I appreciate this.
So we did the playtest yesterday, and I agree with pretty much all your points but would add one more for the "pro" column.
I had my group level up at the end so we could see how that felt. When it came to adding a new experience, all of my players without prompting added some that referenced something that had happened during the session. It made me realize that Daggerheart was subtly encouraging players to build their character based off what happened in the campaign, instead of building FOR the campaign, which i really like.
The Experiences mechanic is easily the strongest pro that Daggerheart has imo. Them being nebulous but specific, and yes, them potentially coming from what has already happened is something that I find so much more efficient and less restrictive than just D&D feats. They convey "vibes" and flavor, and I think that works great because the GM has no reason to not want to allow them if the ask in context is reasonable.
It's something the CR cast does so well in their main campaigns, it makes sense that they'd figure out a way to incorporate it into their format. It's awesome to hear everyone's stories!
@@lonewaer This makes me really want a Daggerheart video game adaptation.
I really liked how you could clearly see your path to lvl 10 on your character sheet. Also, each level felt like a gift compared to DnD where there are tons of flat levels with no gain.
This is something that RP centric groups/people do all the time of their own free will, but it's very nice to see it mechanically in a system that is in fact built for RP centric play.
Honestly this was everything I was hoping for for a review of this game system. No BS, covering all the pros and cons and what fixes could be applied in your opinion. Very solid! Thank you!
Great video - DC20 is coalescing into a fantastic game and I would love to see more content about it!
Your videos are always wildly entertaining. Whether it's broken combos, a ranking video, or talking about a new system, you bring so much joy to the community. Thank you
I really want to hand you a few things and hear your thoughts on it
I love the cards because instead of a book and copying little notes from a book, I have a small deck of 5 or 6 cards at a moments in front of me that only take a small part of my area at the table. Super handy and I love it
I can confirm Dungeon Coach's DC20 is very, VERY good. Professional level. -Professor DM, Dungeoncraft
Yes
What sets it apart? I've never heard of it
Hell yeah
@everythingsalright1121 It is like a merging of DnD 5e and PF 2e. It uses a 4 action point system, stacking advantage and disadvantage, mana instead of spell slots, and stamina that martials can use for abilities.
What I described is a very limited description and if you would like to know more the Dungeon Coach has a ton of videos over it and a channel called Brandon Lane has some videos going over it. Treantmonk's Temple also made a video about it and if you are interested in seeing it in action the Dungeon Coach has hosted two one-shots that are on his channel.
I can't guarantee it will be for you, but I like everything I have seen about it and have supported the alpha.
@@ChandlerBaze Very interesting. I'll need to poke around those places and take a look-see. I'm new to playing D&D, and me and my friends really like it, but we do acknowledge the system has many flaws and we have to change a lot of rules and homebrew many things. So we're open to alternatives
11:55 You're right about that, I want to get into TTRPGs but there is so much to learn, plus my friends who want to play also would have to learn it all. We've ended up making our own and just winging it and it worked okay, but I do want a proper TTRPG we can get into
I am glad you mention that it isn't a light system, because when I watched their video going over the system though I thought it has some cool mechanics I did think very quickly that this system is complicated and definitely didn't lean into some of the much simpler and lighter concepts I have been seeing in many newer systems.
There's a gift for making people smile. Thank you for sharing it.
So here's a weird thing - SOME of the enemies do have Stress scores, just not all of them for some reason, and there's a ton of guidelines in the combat/enemies sections about how to either create or improvise enemies (or "adversaries"). So the idea here about the enemies having Stress that they can take instead of damage is actually already possible, it's just not very well established in the premade enemies and it's not highlighted very well in the super duper dense guide book.
My group is also really enjoying it so far, but there's definitely stuff we notice every time we look in the book that's like "OH weird I missed that, that changes things".
I'm going to assume it's the enemies that are meant to play more like the main guys rather than the rabble that follow the main guys?
The ones that don't have Stress scores are those that have a Minor damage threshold of 1, so if you hit them they will take at least 1 hp.
I would consider giving an enemy a stress if the PC misses with Hope, but I'm going to play it rules as written for now before making an homebrew rules like that
About the Hope & Fear system... You should check the Conan 2d20 system which is where Daggerheart took it from. They call it Momentum & Doom, but there the DM can simply accumulate Doom in a pool if he doesn't wanna have to come up with something right away. And it can also simply be used to add extra dice to monster rolls, if there's nothing else to be done narrative-wise.
Same, was my thoughts exactly when I heard about the system in Daggerheart. But from my experience gming Conan 2d20 has more ways to spend momentum then Daggerheart seems to for hope. So much so, before the end of a scene or battle, players rarely had 1 or 2 momentum remaining after generating dozens throughout the scene. Though given it is still in beta it could very well change.
Fear can also be added to a pool
Its good to remind ourself that it is still in beta, so as long as there are some good concepts, that's the main thing that matters, since the balancing of the game will probably improve itself later
Yeah it feels like a lot of stuff is written vaguely, or sections are omitted entirely, with the idea that "we don't need to introduce this right now."
It'll be interesting to see how things evolve as we get closer to a full release.
Kudos for your review! This was the first review from actual gameplay I've watched and I liked the way you approached it, in a honest, sensible and fair way. Funnily enough, I watched your rules review video earlier today and though "Oh well, I wish this was an actual gameplay review, but sure look, let's watch it anyway". :) Cheers!
Great breakdown, cheers! Excited to see how Daggerheart evolves from now until release.
YES, very much so!
Couple things I noticed about daggerheart:
1. DM should have some fear tokens when starting combat so they can force players to engage if they need to. It gives some agency back to the DM to balance player engagement.
2. I do agree that there's a lot of resources.
I would actually like to see you talk about DC20 since you mentioned it in the video
Agreed
Seconded
Agreed!
Yes!
Indeed! Such a good system!
You are the ONLY person that does not allow me to skip sponsorship segments... because they are mesmerizing. Thank you.
I really hope CR sees these videos cause any takes for an open beta are really good and I agree with alot of what you described
I mean they have an open feedback form and are encouraging everyone to give their feedback so they can work on the system more
@@TheBlueSuperDude yea I know that but it doesnt hurt to look at videos instead of forms yk?
@@Wither_kun Its CR, I GUARANTEE that they're watching these videos anyways. They both want all the feedback they can get, and are all fans of these various creators themselves anyways, as they've said over the years
@@Wither_kun I mean, sure, but in this specific case the entire design team probably can't really sit down to comb through hours of Dagger heart review content on RUclips. Especially since most of it will have a lot of overlap on points. I haven't dived into the test content yet, only made a character. But I'm sure the feedback forms are specifically designed with both survey questions, rating system and few open text box questions for a text dump. At least that's how these are usually done.
I will look forward to DC20 more than daggerheart for a better take in dnd experiences. I would love to see more of it in your channel
Combat in Daggerheart sounds like a nightmare to figure out considering that the average dnd group is composed of approximately 5.5 adhd-riddled children trapped in the bodies of four nominal adults.
It almost feels as if it’d be necessary for everyone to use the online character sheet to keep track of everything, and even then there’s so much stuff happening. Plus, if you did end up using the online sheet, good luck having the players stay focused with a device in front of them. :/
@@captainapac I'd honestly probably just buy a bunch of differently colored beads or something as opposed to using the online sheet. Leaning in to that board-game feel instead of shying away from it and making all the resource management far easier to wrap your head around
We playtested it yesterday and honestly combat wasn't as bad as I thought I'd be. It took some time for our group to get in the flow, but once we did it took less time than a comparable battle in 5e, which is one of our big gripes with 5e. BUT my group is full of a lot of strong personalities (not rude, mind you, just a bunch of players who aren't afraid to speak up) so if your group has some quieter players, I can see how it can become a slog.
That’s why there’s an action tracker
I kind of agree. It feels like mathfinder and 5e had a child, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I feel that the Pathfinder and 3.5 folks will do very well with this system.
Maybe unrelated to the video topic, but I love Czepeku maps. Been using their maps for everything in my campaign and they’re gorgeous every time. Will be using their sci-fi maps for starfinder 2e when it’s out too.
Great video, thank you for the synopsis, this video came out the same day I was thinking about Daggerheart too!
Hits the nail on the head with my concerns as a GM, it certainly feels like it was a game made for the show critical role. I do have concerns with my ability to run a fluid game of Daggerheart with the fear mechanic, despite feeling pretty confident to GM DND for the past 3 years. Though I do like the idea that every duality dice roll has a chance to either benefit the player or the GM's economy.
Something I'm unsure on is, if combat is decided by which group has the higher HP and everyone know this, will that make encounters feel 'too simple'? idk like take that mystery from the players. Maybe I haven't done enough research on it (400 pages) and perhaps I'm off the mark. Obviously a great guideline for creating an encounter if you aren't confident with keeping players alive.
As a player it sounds really fun.
I mean. Its the same in all games though. As long as you hit 0 before me i dont lose.
"if combat is decided by which group has the higher HP..."
It isn't. You misunderstood the point. What Daggerheart effectively does is merely limiting the roof of how much damage a single action can deal at a maximum. One-shotting a boss is basically impossible, so builds that try to deal unlimited damage aren't viable. Apart from that, the total hp on a side isn't any more a deciding factor than it is with D&D. And I'd hardly call it a mystery if a build focused on massive damage deals massive damage or not.
That in mind, I don't see the final game having a whole ton of player options that can perform multiple attacks in one action. Probably also why a secondary weapon just boosts the main hand attack in DH. An entirely new attack might be OP, even at limited efficacy.
@@TheRawrnstuff, writes _'That in mind, I don't see the final game having a whole ton of player options that can perform multiple attacks in one action."_
If you want multiple attacks you just go again immediately -- all you have to do is justify it thematically. Taking turns is for pussies,
@@fred_derf You misunderstand what I said. You can go again immediately, but that gives the DM another action token - ie, that's two attacks for two actions. Not two attacks for one action.
I see what you are saying, thanks for explaining it. Perhaps some actual playtesting will educate me the best. I don't think I quite explained what I properly meant about the mystery thing, but that's neither here nor there.@@TheRawrnstuff
I'm loving seeing content like this on the channel!
Your style is perfect for this sort of informed opinion stuff with the emphasis on fun.
Great video and an awesome shoutout for DC20! Also the Daggerheart stuff is cool too.
More DC20 stuff!
Love the vid. This gave me much more clear understanding of DH
Big hype for DC20! I agree and glad you mentioned it here. DC20 feels like the next step in "D&D" ttrpgs!!
Dawm right!
Great review. You have a methodical way of breaking things down and it's easy to follow. I’m excited for Daggerheart’s progression and would love to see more reviews as it gets updated.
More DC20 content would b cool! Super excited for that game
I'd love to see similar videos on DC20 and MCDM
Best review of Daggerheart I've seen, and some great feedback for the Darrington Press team - I hope they're watching! Share the love on DC20 too. It just keeps getting better and better!
Yes please more Daggerheart stuff. I love having multiple eyes on this system to critique it cause I'd love for it to be the next step in the evolution of ttrpgs and the only way to do that is iron out those kinks. Thanks for being awesome.
Thanks for the run down, I enjoy the way you brake things down and would love to see some more Daggerheart covered!
Yes! More Daggerheart info, any crazy builds, DnD Class vs DH class, etc.
Love your videos and format, good work making the ads genuinely enjoyable!!
Please do more dagger heart content. I’d love to hear breakdowns of the character classes. What makes them different from the dnd classes. And what ability card combos there are
I'll say it again. Anything that makes D&D players try new systems is a win for everyone. If they can take one step to trying something new, the next one might be easier, and so on. There are so many wonderful TTRPGs out there than some people will absolutely love, and I want that for them.
Fantastic set of videos about Daggerheart! Really well explained, really well critiqued, thank you! I downloaded all the gack for free and will start pouring over it myself soon enough. But getting your initial feelings and critiques has been good.. Seems like there are some great mechanics in the game, and even some things (like the open initiative) that could be ported into any game, really. Yes, I'd love to see more Daggerheart content here!
Also, SHOUT OUT TO THE DUNGEON COACH oh yeah! :)
The thing about dagger heart, is that it genuinely feels more entertaining to watch then normal dnd, like when I finished the cr one shot, I was left wanting an entire series with these mechanics. It's just simply more entertaining hearing the dm and players explain how everything they do works. And there's just something about fear and hope that draws you into seeing how combat will go, it's not just another battle, it's a constant climatic battle that can change in a second if someone rolls a hope and gives the big bad a powerful attack. I do see flaws but it's still open beta and can easily evolve into something better.
I'll be honest, I think a LOT of that feeling is just coming from the fact that it's a new system we're all wide eyed about and it feels fresh and different. Like we're discovering what is possible in real time as we watch. It felt the same way when I first saw Critical Role and had never played D&D before. Once I knew the system well, everything became much more boring to watch because someone saying "I cast crown of madness" didn't seem like some super cool esoteric thing you can learn as an awesome spellcasting mage. Rather it was now just another ordinary spell out of hundreds of spells in a system that barely makes magic feel like magic and doesn't give casters the actual mage experience
Awesome review, thanks! Appreciate mentioning the time needed to set everything up and finish the initial story.
Enjoying playtesting DC20!
you’ve left me now wanting to give this a go, i do agree the cards are what makes this game feel different,id love to see you do more content on Dagger heart. love you channel man, keep on keeping on.😁🇬🇧
Great video, keep the dagger heart videos coming
Really nice of your grandma to help with the sponsor segment. She sounds like a lovely lady.
Yes dc20!!!! I love the idea that people are highlighting this game for the system. Not cause Critical role or WOTC or MCDM. Its much lower profille but its being mentioned along side these big dogs cause of the strength of the game design alone. To me thats very punk rock
as much as it is important to always try out things for yourself to make up your own mind and feel about a game, i wanna THANK YOU SO MUCH for being so thorough in describing your experience (and with mostly facts rather than opinions) to save me the time i sadly don't have to try everything out
Hella down for more Daggerheart content, and REALLY interested in DC20 content should that be on the table!
These videos feel like an evolution of your content, I would love to see more playtesting and more reviews (really informative content)!
DC20 Mentioned!!!
Great review. I'd love to hear more real-world playtest experiences like this. Please do more daggerheart videos!
I get your point about pre-picked experiences, they are way to really customize your character and make it yours. But the point of pre-made characters is that you don't have to worry about filling in anything, so I think it's fine.
This is the kind of information Critical Role is actively wanting to be found and told to them. The purpose of the open beta is for people like me and you to find the problems and help them make Daggerheart better. If you haven't already then you should reach out to them and let them know because they literally want whatever is wrong to be found.
Thanks for the review - fun to see how you and your friends liked it.
Perfect, this is exactly the content I want, I want to know what the people in the know are saying about Daggerheart. I hope by the time Daggerheart is a finished product, your feedback will have shaped the game for the better so that a casual like me who primarily watches live plays instead of playing TTRPGs myself will want to drop money on it.
Thanks for the breakdown! My regular group haven’t been available to run the one-shot so it’s good to see what others think. Hopefully the team take the feedback onboard and make improvements.
Can’t wait to dive into MCDM too.
Great vid - any time we get a greater explanation of a new system or variances we get a greater insight of whether this is a game I could play (noting we should always try it ourselves). More on Daggerheart please
it looks super fun! I really l liked the one shot they ran and watching character creation and would love more stuff! I was wondering about the hope and fear system and if it could spiral out of control a bit. I also don't think it would be horrible to have a few predefined fear things that you use in each encounter it sort of mimics lair actions then but still raises the stakes since it happens off of your roll
Definitely want more daggerheart videos. Really excited to see how they iterate on this.
I just pre-ordered the full kit. I'd love more videos on it. Thanks!
I was very worried about the cards being too clunky at the table. I’m glad to hear that it wasn’t the case!
When My friends and I first started DnD (Back when we could all meet up in person), I got spell cards for all the spells in 5e. Having those spell cards helped us so much starting out instead having to pass the handbook to double check what a spell did. Each player had the cards of the spells their characters knew for quick and easy reference or, like you said, thumb through while to figure what to do in combat when it is their turn.
Dagger heart is so awesome! I am excited to see the incredible people at CR take this solid advice on board and continue to inspire.
I just hope you sent your play test and comments in, people like you have a good chance to help fix these issues
I think leveling up is a big benefit that a lot of people don't see with single-session playtests like this. The flexibility to create completely mechanically different characters with the exact same ancestry, class, and subclass means a lot of party diversity and offers a lot of mechanics-based customization that d&d 5e is sorely lacking, imo
Good review. Thank you. Yes, I would like to see your take on DH updates as significant ones come out
Way back when Dark Sun released for AD&D 2nd Edition it made standard the idea of starting at 3rd level to have a character that wouldn't get killed by wandering out into direct sunlight. 4th Edition had its standard that every 1st level character was already a badass hero a cut above the masses-but the backlash was so strong that 5E went back to the traditional 1st level power structure.
Definitely appreciating the Daggerheart feedback as I am still trying to get a play group together for testing. Would love to see something like in depth class guides or class ranking, etc.
I'm super interested in the new daggerheart system and this has been super helpful in preparing me for the one shot i hope to run of the same adventure. Please do keep doing daggerheart content i love to see your takes!
I feel a lot of people in the comments need to remember it doesn't need to be a perfect replacement for DND that solves all problems for everyone. It just needs to give a solid alternate option outside of the DND monopoly. I feel that Daggerheart provides a lot more "realistic" combat than DND, like a lot of medieval history/accuracy nerds like myself might enjoy it more. The whole tiered damage system is more realistic than having just a number of hitpoints, especially the armor mechanic as well, armor shouldn't make you harder to hit, if anything your easier to hit but it just helps reduce damage which is exactly what daggerheart does and I really like that. That being said I do understand the whole point of this time is to get feedback so all the complaining hopefully leads to an even better game. Definitely want to go look into what MCDM made.
I’m really enjoying your Daggerheart content (I enjoy all your content but these videos are especially interesting to me). Please make more!
Please do more playtests! Since it's in open beta this is everyones chance to really make real changes to how the game works for the betterment of the game.
I’ve been wanting to run a game of daggerheart and haven't really had the motivation yet but your video has really enlightened me a lot about what the game has to offer. Thank 🙇 you.
This was incredibly helpful, thanks for doing what I just flat out don’t have the time for
i just had to pause the vid to appreciate the editing on them arms looks so clean better than some movies
Thanks for another cool review, and i’d be interested in more Daggerheart content if possible. Love your channel, you rock !
I really love the Daggerheart content! I mean, I'm a very curious Critter but don't have the Time to try this atm for personal reasons. So having this to really look into it and hear someone who's experienced und curious is lovely. I'd gladly see more!
We played over the weekend. I think many of my thoughts fall in line with yours.
Something I really like between this two videos about DH was that the cards (something i really like to use) went from an acessory to the most promesing stuff. Our dear youtuber really is able to go back on a point when he actually experiences it and that is the sort of thing that is lacking on the internet as a whole
Excellent review and well thought out tips. I hope they're watching.
Agreed, my table felt like fully fleshed heroes at level 1, and while it took them 15 minutes to get the hang of the duality duce and action tracker, I'm still finding rules I didn't know about. Tough on the GM, loads of fun for rp-ready players.
Thank you for the honest review! I want to hear more from you as developments happen in DH!
My favorite system that is easier on the DM is Son of Oak's "City of Mist". The manual even says you are more than the Master of Ceremonies (MC), you are a part of the audience. This emphasizes player rp importance and we've been having a blast.
By far the best coverage on Daggerheart I have seen so far - thank you!
Love your awesome work and the time and effort you out into this video! I haven’t actually played much less dm’d daggerheart, so take this with a good pinch of salt, but:
I strongly believe that all of the points you made regarding it being more work and more stress - more prep and thought and more “scrambling to find/narrate things to happen” that falls on the GM, is in good part because it’s completely new for you too.
Of course you are a grandmaster DM ;) but all the things you do without thinking about it in a dnd session, comes from the countless hours you’ve spent Dm’ing. just like everything else; when starting a new skill or Job or anything, its almost impossible to imagine how all this is going to be processed by our subconscious without much strain on our “CPU” 😂 but given enough time, it becomes second nature to virtually everyone.
I welcome and appreciate all the love, work, and contributions brought into the DnD community, and am and remain hopeful that Daggerheart will be a huge sucess ✨❤️ :)
Loving your take on Daggerheart. Keep it coming!
Loved the comments on the sauce for the system. I just recently got into ttrpgs (a little over a year ago now) and 5e has been my go to, but i really want to try daggerheart and your points on what to make it better sounded very reasonable. I personally loved the 'experiences' section in the character creation and how applying those (dnd) 'proficiencies' onto roleplay seems much more feasible (i mean, i've played a few games in which my brewer supplies proficiency hardly ever came into play) and having that way of phrasing 'oh maybe my X experience could help here!' makes it more fun and tailored. Can't wait to find a table willing to try it out :)
Great content as always!
I was invited to do the character creation playtest but it ended up being too complicated for me to wrap my head around. I really enjoy your thoughts, please keep sharing them!
Great review. I am glad they are in OpenBeta right now so they can take some of these ideas that long-time GMs like you have and see about how to incorporate them into their system.
Super interesting to hear about, thanks for the video. I've been looking forward to playtesting Daggerheart so it's a nice heads up to have the downsides ahead of time
Using othello pieces to show action and fear tokens is a way to visualize how much action the DM have. Showing this in a bowl as Matt did raised my stakes and interest
Great review of Daggerhesrt, pros and cons. Now,during beta testing , is the tume to get those cons out there so changes can be made!
This amazing insight to the game. Great feed back that I hope CR and Darrington Press hears. Its great we have people reviewing serious games like this to help the community out in moving forward towards other games.
I agree with the micro-managing "overload" that the GM has. But, regarding the rulebook of the beta version:
It has a lit if pages, because it actually is written to be understood by anyone, even total RPG noobs. It explains things that every rpg veteran will simply skip. And, lots of pages are also just for the GM.
I still think, after reading the entire pdf, that it is rules-light (compared to 5e).
Thank you for your honest review, I really enjoy your content. I am preparing to play DH with my regular game group ❤
Great synopsis. I love your balanced takes on RPGs. Keep doing what you’re doing.
Yeah man of course we want more daggerheart stuff! This is a really good take on the game. My table hasn't played yet, and I've kind of been dreading the "gm raise the stakes/fear" thing, but we'll see how it goes. Keep up the good work!