How WWII soldiers carried & shot their weapons
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- 🪖Don’t miss out on your daily dose of history! Follow World War Wisdom on TikTok, Facebook, and RUclips through this link! 🪖
linktr.ee/worl...
.
.
.
.
.
#wwii #ww2 #worldwar2 #history #military #militaryhistory #reenactment #wwiireenactment #wwiireenactor #reenactor #wwiihistory #ww2history #todayinhistory #cod #callofduty #battlefield #warzone #worldoftanks #army #navy #marines #coastguard #airforce #didyouknow #dailyfacts #facts #todayilearned #todayyearsold #myths #historyfacts
I dont understand why people dont understand that it isn't just firearms tech that has drastically evolved over the past 100 years. Firearm safety, handling techniques, and how firearms are used in general have really changed over the years.
Pistols are mechanically, basically the same since the 1911, the only real difference is turning into double stack 9mm, and being made of polymer, but shooting styles have changed drastically.
@@alexisborden3191 But back then everyone trained to fire it one handed, and the obsession with keeping your finger off the trigger was not a thing until the 1990s.
Yah. Tech and technique
@@huntclanhunt9697nah. Finger off the trigger has beef around longer than that.
Who is a famous picture from world war one of Val Browning, son of John Moses Browning, posing with his father’s creation, the BAR, with his finger curled around the trigger. He’s not just about to fire.
So, while such gun safety may have existed before the 90s, it wasn’t much before, and it is relatively new.
An M1 Garand is substantially heavier and longer than an M4. Carrying it at the modern low ready all the time would wear a soldier out.
Which means the position will reappear with the M-7.
@@orlock20 lol!! Well see...
Snipers and lmg gunners are a good example of your point in modern day.
I mean its not even that it has to dp with their designs the way your gonna hold a weapon like an m4 with a pistol grip is gonna naturally allow your arm to rest down, compared to a rifle without one that sorta forces it out to be comfortable
@@orlock20 tbh It would entirely surprise me.
The chicken wing is actually the correct way to shoot traditional rifles. Back then the stocks were made out of wood, and non adjustable, this meant that if you weren’t the exact size for the rifle, you had to use the chicken wing.
("Sgt.J."). " I, Noticed that The 70's. And, 80, 90's Marines seemed to be trained that way. After Seeing the Result of an Ak-47 injury Caused the Amputation of a Guy's Arm. I, Tuck in.
Chicken winging is also to "blade" your body towards downrange to make yourself a narrower target. Today we stand square to the target to have our armor plate over our vital organs. This is what I was told in basic training in 2006.
@@danielescobar7618squaring up to the target makes armor better at protecting and absorbing also, great stuff
@@koimananana absolutely. Back in my day. Not everyone who carried a weapon got armor so preliminary training was both ways for "if you have armor on"
This is true for everybody reading it... The chicken wing is not a bad way to shoot a rifle!! In fact, when studies have been done, it has shown time and time again that it's almost negligible the difference it provides... But... And the changing world rifles have gotten shorter, lighter and more adjustable for every person. So the chicken wing wasn't really phased out... It was just kind of... No longer needed
True! Taught to shoot by my father, a wwii, Korea vet and Drill Sgt. at a point in his career. “Get that elbow UP!!!”
👍
dude's dreaming with the M1 Garand
What was the reason for this back then?
@@edwardliu111 looking at another reply and doing a bit of research, putting your elbow up in that chicken wing makes a sort of pocket in your shoulder that the stock fits into, adding stability. American soldiers back then were trained to focus more on marksmanship.
@@edwardliu111 Plus: supposedly firms the shoulder where the rifle butt will go. Minus: makes the forearm/elbow a better target.
When I joined the Army in 1980. We were taught old school. Chicken wing and all. We didn’t have vests or the body armor they do today. We did have flack vests which we rarely wore. The chicken wing was for marksmanship. It formed a pocket in the shoulder for the Butt-stock to be placed. I was in a position to raise the rifle up to the face so the head didn’t have to come down to the rifle. We also stood sideways to the target not square on to it. We carried our rifles at a port arms ready position in the field or on a road march. Some of us learned quick kill techniques of snapping the rifle into a shooting position but not using the sights, but looking over them pivoting our bodies to the target and shooting instinctively. This was accurate at short range around 50 meters. Is the way people shoot now better? Yes, no maybe. For the gear used yes, but with an M1 Garand M14 or the M16 with no body armor, perhaps not. When I shoot today I still shoot the way I was trained. And can still hit targets over 300 meters with iron sights. Or shoot fast at short range. If I shot with body armor, I would probably shoot squared off too. But I don’t have any so I don’t feel the need to. As for saying perhaps chicken wing gives your opponent a target to shoot at. Yes, if it’s sticking out from behind cover. But if I’m standing in the open for some stupid reason, my opponent will should be aiming center mass, not at my arm. My body is more likely to be hit than my arm. Unless it was trucked in tight to my body. Squaring off without body armor creates a bigger target. Shooting from the side creates a smaller target and your non firing arm is held under the rifle inline with your body. It’s more likely to take a round than your body. Or at least protecting your heart and lungs.
ye i taght mysellf how to aim down the barrel instead of aiming open sited guns
This is all true except the body armor part, the pasgt helmet was standard issue in the early 1980's, the pasgt vest was put to use in the mid 1980's as well, assuming you had a flak vest you would have had a pasgt helmet issued to you, or if you were something like a airborne soldier you would be issued a m1 helmet.
Bottom line,,, whatever.
As long as you can get rounds on target downrange, hold your weapon any way that suits you. Hitting your target is the most important thing.
I knew it was post Vietnam when we phased out the chicken wing. I know it was when we rejiggered our CQC and urban warfare training “probably in the 90s”.
Thank you for your service friendo.
Fun fact: in Poland "chicken wing" is called "cold elbow".
True
Było to tak zwane podczas drugiej wojny światowej?
Cold elbow ala chicken wing is good for large caliber full autos that have a lot of recoil. Mainly older models. If it slips from the shoulder you retain degree of control whereas Tucked in slip you gun runs away from you.
Also chicken wing worked well when crawling with longer heavier rifles.
I thought it only applied while draving a car
Gotta love it when tacticool know-it-alls confuse the present with their perception of the past. Bravo sir
It appears everywhere, not just in how a firearm is carried and used.
A good example is the issue of slavery. Today, we consider it an evil thing. Back in the Roman times, it was what happened when you lose a conflict against the Roman Empire. The survivors were enslaved, and their territory absorbed into the Empire.
Saving Private Ryan. At the end of the beach scene Miller is holding his Thompson while moving while aiming down the sight. I remember that struck me as odd because that's how modern SWAT and other urban combat units do it.
As a Army vet serving from 2004-2013, we don't always carry a weapon as "trained". Even when deployed. When you're tired, hungry and hot AF. You don't care, as long as you're not getting shot at, it doesn't matter.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Agreed, thank you!
Marine infantry vet (Iraq) here. I can confirm this. Usually comes down to how well we are supplied with rest snd crayons.
Admin or cook?
@@nwj03a neither 31B military police
@@anthonyseal4087 MP= "I wish I was a blue cord!" 🤣🤣
I like how he completely destroyed the know-it-alls without being rude or snarky
Honestly it makes sense. In 1944 the firearms instructors for the troops would have been accustomed to heavy long rifles with small magazines. Totally different ballgame than a plastic M4
I’m glad someone is finally addressing this. People mishandling their rifles has irked me for a long time. And I’m not sure what you meant by “chicken wing”, but we were always taught to raise our elbow when firing the M1 or M14 rifles. This was supposed to ease the recoil a little, since you could use both arms to pull the rifle in tight to your shoulder. The M16 has very little recoil in comparison and the requirement was dropped.
Thanks for all you do.
"chicken winging" is a negative term coined for that method of shooting. It seems that shooting like that encourages your body to face the target side on, which in the time, probably was a good thing. But due to armor being standard issue, this makes armor ineffective
Thanks for that info.
I’ve been shooting long arms for 65 of my 75 years, and I couldn’t imaging firing on a target facing it head on, but that’s not what we’re talking about.
We’re talking about WW2 when firing your rifle with your left shoulder to the target was how it was done; and the assault position was walking forward, firing the rifle with the widest part of the butt clamped firmly under your arm a sort-of hip shooting, but with the rifle against your ribs.
@@macqnj107 yeah! it makes sense. always love details like that shown in media
Thanks to me not properly shouldering an M1 the gun range lost a light that day lol. I owned an AK for awhile & the Garand was definitely a different beast entirely. I was never properly trained or accurate, but I did notice a massive difference.
Even with the M16 having less recoil, the chicken wing was still common long after World War II into the early 80's at the very least, and at least taught for a while longer according to some. You can see a lot of photos from the Vietnam War of guys firing their M16 rifles with their arm sticking out in that chicken wing position.
The Chicken Wing was taught as the correct method of firing in the standing unsupported position as late as 2006 in the Manual of Arms for the M4 and M16A4. Those tacticool folks should chew on that for a bit hah.
They can't read by default
Yup I was going to comment and say, I went though boot in 2012 and we had instructors talking about how they had just recently phased out the chicken wing.
We were also one of the last groups to train on iron sights in bootcamp
When I was in OSUT on Sand Hill at Fort Benning in 2000, they taught us to utilize the chicken wing during BRM. A few weeks later once we really started into combat infantry fighting techniques, one of the most common phrases you heard from our DS's was "tuck in that chicken wing! You wanna get it shot off?!?"
It disappeared all together once we began training in what they called "SWAT tactics" at the time. (Plates forward shooting and moving posture.)
Okay get your elbow shit off I don't care
Gotta love that people can be so passionate about something yet so fundamentally wrong when it comes to do their due diligence of research.
I know that I personally don't know wether this exact piece of information is correct or not. But I am also fairly certain that I can easily make a few quick google searches and find the old training manual that was in use 2006. I'm just too lazy to do that rn lol but my point is that one ought to naturally skeptical and fact check frequently. Because the reason to do so is not a complicated one. The more you fact check and learn how to verify information. The harder it'll be for strangers to spread misinformation.
My favorite by far is the fact almost every photo of soldiers back then showed there was no such thing as trigger discipline yet
I was in throughout the '90's and trigger discipline wasn't a thing. Keeping only the pad of the tip of the finger on the trigger was the most important thing. Also I was taught the tea cup hold by a SF weapons SGT when I qualified on the M9 in El Salvador in '92.
@MN-Hillbilly It's true. I was in the Marines 89-93, and the only time I heard anybody tell me to keep my finger off the trigger (when I wasn't actively firing the weapon) was one time when a friend of mine and I took a Taurus 9mm he had bought to a range at the Ft. Ord army base. You could go there in your free time in civilian clothes and shoot personal firearms. The range officer (some old retired guy) came over at some point and said, "Hey, make sure you keep your finger off the trigger," and I was confused, lol. Up to then, I had basically been taught to keep the muzzle pointed downrange, and the only time they cared about trigger discipline was during "cease fire." But if it was okay to fire, and your muzzle discipline was good, then you were good.
I came here to say this. It's really noticeable in Fury (2014)
1) Chicken wing is the correct way because that’s how miniature toy soldiers shoot offhand.
2) Just use what works best for you.
real
Trigger discipline is also very different now as opposed to 1940’s. I was taught to shoot and maintain small arms by my dad, a WW2 vet, and I am a Vietnam vet. Muzzle control was uppermost, “ Don’t point that thing at anything you don’t want to destroy!” but you’ll often see clips or photos of WW2 and Vietnam vets with their fingers inside the trigger guard.
I see this all the time, people commenting on a historical photo complaining about their "trigger discipline," without realizing it didn't really become common practice until the 80s.
@@CaffeinePanda Glocks and similar guns with no traditional safety were the primary cause for the change in trigger discipline. SWAT type tactics like stacks for room clearing etc had some role in it too, but it was mainly Glocks.
OUTSTANDING POST! Ya nailed it my friend, the Marines taught us to 'KEEP YOUR FUCKING FINGER ON THAT FUCKING TRIGGER!'
@@dzapper7 I disagree. I started the police academy in 1986 and we carried revolvers. We were taught to keep the finger outside the trigger guard until we were ready to fire. It was "mainly Glocks."
I'm an Army vet and I always say that only adult film stars worry about how they look when they shoot...
Good quote. I like it.
OUTSTANDING SOLDIER!
🤣👍👏
damn right, id rather look stupid nailin a 1/4 target at 300yd than look cool and miss
bravo!
The irony being that "chicken-winging" is actually relevant and a valid shooting stance when firing a larger bore rifle without a pistol grip. It's not a coincidence that shooting stances started changing when rifles that weren't .30 caliber battle rifles that also had pistol grips became the norm.
Marine trained in the woodland cammie era of the 90’s here…confirm that yes we were taught to keep that elbow up to create a “high pocket” for the buttstock to ride in. It didn’t go away that long ago.
Went though in 2012, and I'm not exactly sure when, but it had been phased out so recently our PMIs were talking about how some of us might have older brothers who were in who told us that was how it was done, but it's now different.
Edit: We were still doing it till at least 2006 apparently
@@Batchall_AcceptedBy 2015 gone, By 2020 practically unheard of, probably.
Does body armor affect that?
Would that eliminate the pocket in your shoulder and negate the benefit of any blading, which would expose the side of the body which isn't covered?
The never did an actual war generation
@@ronaldkonkoma4356Blading makes body armor almost useless. The armor is upfront.
The "chicken wing" makes a perfect pocket in the shoulder for the rifle butt. This was before modern light recoil rifles with adjustable sticks.
Shoot an 8mm Mauser, 303 British, 30.06, or especially a 7.63x54 Mosin all day and you will understand why they used the "chicken wing".
If it into the Mosin Nagant without chicken winging, but I’m the exception and not the rule. The vast majority of people will shoot better using the chicken wing with the rifles you described here, or any wood stock rifles for that matter imo
Shot a traditional grip 30-06 at the range and found out very quickly not to lower my arm after the first few shots. I was worried I’d break my clavicle 😢
As a someone who was a WWII reenactor in the 90s I must say I think you do a great job!!! It is good to see a younger generation taking an interest in WWII reenacting. Don't worry too much what ppl on the Internet say when they're trying to criticize & show their lack of knowledge, WWII tactics & fighting styles were very different from today & one who knows WWII can see that you take your impression seriously which is important to properly honor those veterans. I know there are much fewer of them now, than there were when I was a reenactor, but listening to them sharing their experiences was 1 of my favorite parts of doing the events ( living history & certain reenactments).
Chicken winging is still taught for traditional pistol gripped rifles (not such as an AR 15 pistol grip, but the M1 which had the elongated nubbed stock grip). The biomechanics behind how your hand grasps contemporary grips and traditional stocks is different and you place and hold the rifle in the pocket of your shoulder differently. Lowering your elbow on a traditional stock might reduce some of the recoil, but it will HURT with full power charges.
i was also going to mention this, the relaxed shoulder also supports the stock of a rifle like the M4 and prevents it from sliding, compared to the M1 which kicks like a mule and has a lot of overall heft, the chicken wing can help brace for that backwards kick of a .306 being fired.
The phrase you're looking for is 'semi-pistol grip stock'.
@@jic1 no the phrase is still pistol grip. That is traditionally still how the difference between straight and angled stocks are referred in training manuals depicting weapons that came issued with both variants such as the Mosin. Though the technical difference is like complaining about calling a magazine a clip. Everyone understands what you mean.
@@mastoner20 Except if you had used the term 'semi-pistol grip stock', then a quarter of your comment wouldn't have been spent describing exactly which kind of stock you meant.
And now half the replies have been spent arguing semantics
I love how realistic RDR2 was with their animations, as a former mountain lion, i can reassure this is how we kill our prey.
edit: this comment got posted on the wrong video lol
what?
@@ROACH_WATER yes.
@@meta_cross1099egg
Yea
Was not ready for that one lol
My father was a WWII Vet and served in the North African & European Theaters of Operation. He taught me how to deer hunt. The “Chicken Wing” hold was what he taught me and it has served me well on running deer out to about 200 meters. Always one shot and drop’em kills. As to the low-ready carry…yep it works pretty well when your weapon doesn’t weigh 10 to 20 effing pounds empty and has ergonomic features like pistol grips, adjustable butt stocks and the like. Modern military assault rifles lend themselves to low-ready carry. A3-03 Springfield, Garands, BARs and even Thompsons…not so much. Additionally, even if one was issued an M1-carbine, an M3 SMG or similar, everyone was taught in basic the “proper” ready carrying hold with the Garand or Springfield (think the USMC) and that translated over into lighter, handier weapons.
Garand has a traditional stock, not pistol grip... CHICKEN WING IS HOW YOU USE GUNS WITH TRADITIONAL STOCK😂
I thought I was the only one who looked out for stuff like this. It always fascinated me how like trends and tactics how they have adapted over time.
I always adore these old details, really helps you see the thousands of small ways warfare has changed over the years
The worst thing is always "Never hold it by the mag, it'll jam the gun", no, that will happen with a modern gun, but in the 40s, stuff was built cheap, you gotta keep it shoved in all the time or it won't feed. (Yes, I do know you have a video about it already, but I thought I'd mention it before someone else who doesn't know you have a video on it does.)
What??!! But I thought stuff wasn't made like it used to be!?
I mean technically speaking I've never seen holding a rifle by the mag be a issue with a M4, in fact I am pretty sure there is photos with the old M16a4s taken during Iraq with us troops holding them by their mags so the argument in general seems kinda retarded.
@@jackbuendgen389it mean they arent technically wrong either way
Except with the Thompson. It had a rail that kept the mag in place.
Ur half right its really more on a gun by gun basis, really most modern rifles this shouldnt be an issue but some older weapons didnt habe a particularly tight fire for the mag so holding the mag as a grip or brace cpuld jostle it and increase the risk of a malfunction a decent amount, like a thompson or mp 40, more than likely perfectly fine but a ppsh or ppd no it actually could cause a miss feed tho with anything nothings 100 percent, its not a garrentee so ur gonna see dudes do it anyway for comfort
Thank you for keeping history alive
If my father, who was a World War 2 veteran, was still alive and saw your videos, he would be proud.
I was taught the chicken wing in basic... but we also were not using body armor at that time. I still had the H harness during training
also a lot of clay shooters still use the "chicken wing". I'm pretty sure our grandfathers were smart enough to hold their gun whatever way worked best for them, especially those of them who had hunting experience prior to joining.
My late grandfather served during the Korean War, where there wasn't terribly much difference in hardware and training between WWII and that time. I went shooting with him, once, and as I was firing the M1 I'd recently picked up from a gun show, he kept nudging my arm up into what was, when he was in the military, the correct shooting position. He explained it after I'd finished shooting, and now that's how I shoot the weapon any time I take it out to the range. I miss that old grouch. Thank you for posting this and reminding me of him!
Sorry for your loss.
Thank you. I'm a Ww2 USN reenactor/museum volunteer and it irks me when ppl assume the modern (or 'tacticool') way to carry is the way it was in the 40's. It also carries over to the way uniforms are worn.
I’m pretty sure you can see this in Star Wars too. The first movie came out in 1977, but even the newer content shows people holding blasters with their elbows flared, matching the time the first movie was released in.
You still do the “chicken wing” to shoot classic rifle designs today
Many Call of Duty "veterans" are quick to criticize when in fact they are so far out of line so as to be in another county. You are spot on.
They actually show era-accurate shooting positions in the game.
Also most people don’t realize the chicken wing is how you shoot traditional stock rifles, gives you a nice shelf, ARs give you the option because you’re firing a pretty small cartridge. Don’t need much support.
Expound, because that sounds extremely stupid.
@@nwj03alol, I think he just made it up. Having shot both styles, and shotguns, I've never felt the need to chicken wing any firearm.
We're u get that info cause it's fkn st*pid
all this modern school of thought doesnt apply to the past (which is why the “heeerh they’re chicken winging!! thats bad!” argument is invalid) like just consider that we were still using round tipped rifle rounds in 1903 before adopting the pointed 30-06
yep the .30-03 was replaced by the .30-06
The comments about gripping the Magazine of an Mp40, STEN or Grease Gun were magnificent examples of modern armchair soldier comments.
I just like work learning random World War II facts and I did not notice until today, so thank you very much
Thank you for paying attention to the details. It makes a lot of difference.
One of my major gripes is the two handed firing of pistols. Also pistols at the ready with two hands like they're about to stack up and breach a door 😆
Definitely. Most WW II pistols were balanced for one handed shooting. US Army training films explicitly instructed troops the M1911 would be fired one handed by the guys likely to carry them because they were handing mortars, ammo boxes, and radios with their other hand.
Two-handed shooting was already one of techniques taught during WWII, so it's not exactly anachronistic, but yes the primary technique was one-handed shooting
Plus shooting one-handed is objectively cooler
@@czwarty7878they did the tea cup grip!
@@catocall7323 yes, it was also one of allowed techniques
Kid you are doing great while learning what these Vets truly gave us. USN SBU-022.
"USN SBU-022"
Does that mean you were in the submarines, please?
@@BriselanceGoogle it then you can see and hear for yourself. Special Boat Unit 022. 😎
as a german i rly had to laugh to your shirt xD
ganz lustig, ja? 😂
My dad was in Vietnam, trained with an m14. He taught me the chicken wing thing, but with a sling for rigidity.
thank you for the video...learned a lot.
Even today the proper way to shoot a weapon that's doesn't have a pistol grip is the chicken wing because of a magical thing called body mechanics.
You’re right…that doesn’t stop some people crying and whining about "poor shooting form" Becauee they just don’t understand it’s the proper way…..
As a Vet, I ask you not to let some Vet bros get under your skin. Love your content man. My grand fathers faught in WWII, and appreciate the work you put in.
100% agree. I never knew the "chicken wing" was a real method. I was big on ww2 a while ago and despite seeing soooo many pictures I never picked up on it. I guess it just registered as something goofy since I've only been around modern rifles
Chicken wing is proper on old school rifles like the M1 Garand but not necessarily on modern pistol grip rifles like the M4
You can't expect people who never served to understand these things
Well then maybe they shouldn't start talking this and that like they know what they're talking about
Great short. We made sure to not have any modern carrying of weapons in the film we made.
Oh hey, didn’t expect to see you here
Can you talk about the M1 carbine?
No
@@BigSad49702 yes.
@@meta_cross1099maybe
It's like the M1 Garand, but for babies.
@@knightartorias4487 the M1 carbine has a box magazine, and the M1 Garand has clips that go in the top
Watch the tv series Combat. See how the character Caje carries his M1 Garand. He was taught this by Lee Marvin who was a Marine Combat veteran and guest starred in two of the series’ episodes.
My grandfather was a world war two vet. that's how he taught me to shoot.
It’s also very natural to carry a rifle that is mostly a straight piece of wood/iron at the waist/hip. Modern weapons are more comfortable to carry due to various grips and handles.
The reason they carried it with the barrel up is because they can aim it faster, using the guns weight and gravity to put it into position faster than it would take to life the front end of the gun from a low position
Chicken winging was taught well into the ‘80s and ‘90s before modern Kevlar body armor was standard issue. By that point, we were issuing out flak jackets that could protect you from shrapnel but not bullets. From the ‘60s and prior, we were issuing out web gear that offered no protection from anything. So our troops were taught to blade their bodies to present themselves as smaller targets and to protect the vitals in their torso from incoming shrapnel and rounds, and the only way to effectively manage recoil like that is to chicken wing your rifle. You can especially notice this change in pistol handling, where troops were taught to shoot with their bodies completely bladed and one handed.
Nowadays, we have effective body armor so we’re taught to square our bodies off towards our enemy. We’re taught to c-clamp our handguard to effectively push our rifle back into our shoulder to manage recoil and to shoot with our elbow tucked into our side because getting shot in the plate is safer than in the elbow. We remain squared off with pistols and shoot with both hands to better manage recoil, and we have a slight bend in the knees to prevent falling backwards if shot, and slightly lean forward when shooting so bullet ricochet off the plate down into the ground and not up into our heads.
Mind you, there may have been a few one offs where at least one person carried it in a way that would carry it like a "modern manner". Like Vietnam and the all the way up to the early 2000s where it was carried with the muzzle being pointed up.
I can tell it was made in 2023 because you still have your beard as opposed to your moustache in the last video. Also, I often hold my Denix M1 Carbine with the elbow sticking out and some of my friends keep telling me not to do it. But for me it's easier with the elbow out.
Keep sticking that elbow out, you
are doing it correctly! As stated in the video that is how the army trained everyone to do it, because with a traditional style stock that is the correct position and it exagerates the hollow in your shoulder for the butt of the rifle to sit in, having your elbow low is the correct position for today's pistol grip stocks. If your friends still tell you your wrong have them watch the training film "Rifle Marksmanship with the M1 Rifle."
Sorry, I meant M1A1 Carbine (Paratrooper version)
Tbh I think they look pretty Awesome doing those movements, compared today 😅
Kudos to you, man. I’m glad I’m not the only one that’s often thought about this. I’m by know means an expert, but I always figured things were done differently in those days. I always figured at least some of the old WWII flicks weren’t just making things up when it came to how soldiers carried things.
That's why some movies have technical consultants or historical consultants.👍 I can tell you, as a former Civil War re-enactor, you can learn an awful lot of practical knowledge by being "that soldier" from Friday evening to Sunday afternoon. Things were much different in the black powder era. Just think how much advancement there has been in automobiles and telephones in the last 20 or 30 years.🤔
chicken wing is how traditional rifles are shot
The chicken wing was taught for the M4 and M16A2/4 up until 2006.
The shirt and the last one is just the greatest thing I've ever seen in the past year except for one that Wahlberg had on lately.
Woww I’m gonna pay attention next time I watch a ww2 movie to see how they carried there guns to see if it’s accurate… thanks for the knowledge
Watch the TV show Combat or to Hell and Back. They’re all WWII/Korean War veterans
@@lemmdus2119thanks, i will watch them
The chicken wing is the ideal way to shoulder a weapon with a traditional grip/stock
The size and weight of the M1 is different than an M4. So, the way that is appropriate to carry one isn't necessarily the same as the other.
I appreciate this im a fellow re-enacter but im a german lol
i love re-enactors
Non pistol gripped weapons should be chicken winged to be fired
With or without a pistol grip. The chicken wing forms a pocket for the rifle butt and raises the stock to the face. It’s how I was taught with the old M16A1 when I joined the army.
The the “chicken wing” was still being taught when I went through basic in ‘73
The stupid things that upset know it alls is incredible! They are so anxious to make themselves look smart it usually has the opposite effect ! You just keep doing what you’re doing
because so few people know anything about history it’s sad and we all know why learning about our history is so important!
What you’re doing is much appreciated, keep up with good work!
howdy
No way I was going to say that
Howdy!
the Marine Corps still teaches those stances for firing accurately on the range.. the only thing that honestly has REALLY changed was urban terrain. in forest and field settings. i think its about the same.
Urban fighting was extremely common in WW2.
@@baneofbanesNot the same though. In conventional warfare the US bombs the shit out of towns, following up with a ton of rounds from the infinite ammo supply the US is known for, as apposed to modern anti-terrorist limited war bs fighting.
He's even got the thousand yard stare of a real soldier
This is so bad among German reenactors. I got told I "wasn't on a hunting trip" for carrying my K98 with the stock tucked under my arm by a much more seasoned reenactor. He wasn't happy when later that night I pulled up about 30 photos of Germans carrying their rifles that way.
The garand doesn't have a pistol grip or collapsable stock, chicken wing is literally how you hold traditional stock rifles like that 😂
I shot with the dreaded chicken wing when I was in the Army. People would try to correct me, so I would ask them, "I qualified expert, how about you?"
I’d just like to say to Worldwarwisdom that you are a sort of hero to me. I love your videos and what to explain in them and it is one of the things that sparked my large interest in WW2. Because of you I have spent countless hours scouring over textbooks and memoirs and writing essays about certain aspects of the war. Because of you I am hopin to one day become a professor in European history. Keep up the amazing work. I expect great things from you!
I served in the USAF in the early 80s. We had a CS worker in our squadron who had been in the Army during WW2. From N. Africa all the way to Germany. The one thing he told me that stuck with me. Was that the German soldier for whatever reason believed all Americans were right handed. Thus they would aim to the right of the muzzle flash. He said he learned very quickly to shoot left handed. So that the Germans would miss. True? I don't know but the mechanics of it seem legit.
My grandfather's WW I Rifleman's Handbook shows the "chickenwing" as the correct posture to employ.
In Russia, the way we’d carry any rifle was always facing up. Left hand at the back and right hand on the barrel. It would face at a 45 degree angle up, where we could quickly just shift into pressing the butt against that sweet spot next between our chest and shoulder for a quick fire. I’m honestly sick of having these gun gurus try telling us how the hell we hold our firearms. Kid, we were literally in the military whilst you learned at a gun range. Our circumstances are not the same. I’m glad that you actually pointed this stuff out.
As a Gulf War veteran, I have been entertained and amazed with your comment. Keep up the excellent job
For Armistice Day in 2018 I went to Belgium. At the Tyne Cot WW1 cemetery four re-enactors stood as an honour guard. Initially I thought it was in poor taste but as time passed and they stood there stock still it made me appreciate their show of respect.
This guy is gonna teach me how to tie my shoes in a historically accurate manner next.
I've watched lots of combat footage from back then to now, and you're right. Even the way they moved from WWII to the Korean War was different.
Oh man, this is really helpful to me as an actor too, thanks!
And thank you for remembering WW2 details. You kept them alive sir. 🫡
In Cuba we also trained that way, chicken wing style. An AK-47 CHICKEN WING. 😂😂
It was also taught to "teacup" pistols. They were allowed to be wrong because they were figuring stuff out and stuff like body armor didn't exist yet. It doesn't really matter if you're shooting at deer but don't present limbs when being shot at.
Yep. Taught marksmanship by my dad who was in Korea when the bullets were flying and Vietnam. I got introduced to the M1 in JROTC and then the M14. After high school in 1974 the U.S. Army introduced me to the M16A1 and other weapons.
The best actor I've seen with the handling of a Garand wis Pierre Jalbet. He played Caje in the show Combat. He was smooth fast and looked comfortable on loading and using the gun. Give it a look see. Great review. Keep up the good work!
Thank you.
I joined the USMC in 1980. I retired from the Army National Guard in 2007. I noticed a plethora of changes in techniques and equipment during those years. It really aggravates me when I hear people criticize and talk bad about the older stuff. It just shows their historical ignorance. Times change. In my early days, at 5'6" & 125 lbs, carrying my M-60 took a bit more effort than it did others. I can appreciate the modern tactics, equipment, etc. But, when I see photos and watch videos of military operations from the past, I always wonder how much more miserable life was back then.
Let me tell you as an Army vet, 86-90, we pretty much carried our M-16s "WWII" style, when they weren't slung over our shoulders...
While way more effective, the "low ready" with the "cool guy sling" wasn't adopted until the GWOT, pretty much
the concept of modern tactics being employed during ww2 would be some awesome to watch shit.
I’m 61, retired with 40 years metro police, and our issued sidearm was a 357 mag 686 S&W polished with +P+ 38 ammo & a 12 round leather ammo carrier with a Sam Browne gun belt cuff case PR-24 side handle baton, Boston Leather Slapper with a low ride widow maker gun holster. I noticed big changes from 1983 up to today, thus my father was in WW2 & grandfather WW1, and they were both metro cops, thus I noticed the changes in military equipment & law enforcement equipment throughput the years. We were always trained to count our rounds, shoot 2 then load 2 double action. I genuinely enjoy your videos, and notice the differences, the military fellas during WW1 & WW2 were always cleaning their weapons, this is something we were always trained to do as peace officers, however military truly required cleaning much more than civilian law enforcement.
I love small things like that: when I was first being taught skill at arms in the Army, it was from a pair of Jocks who had joined up back when SLRs were the done thing: they mentioned that you could lean slightly further forward, into the rifle, when shooting from a standing unsupported position, but that this isn't really done now.
The reason being pretty simple: with a 7.62 you might want to do that to help overcome the excessive recoil, but its not usually necessary with a 5.56. Needs must, but needs change over time...
I love your content and now I am so obsessed with history
Thank you for caring for the details of World war 2, it's great to see someone who is willing to go to the extent of realism
As an M16A1 Era Marine, there was no such thing as "chicken wing", you would get your ass kicked in basic if you put your thumb over the hanguards, or used the "carry handle" as an actual carry handle, and the muzzle was *ALWAYS* up, unless you were in a Huey, "because an accidental discharge through the floor is a lot less catastrophic than one through a turbine." That is a verbatim quote.😉
As an American Civil War re-enactor, I got some strange looks and comments when I fired my revolver in the "fencer" stance,(right hand extended, hips perpendicular to target, left hand on left hip) rather than a modern Weaver or Isocelles stance. As historical re-enactors, we strive for authenticity and historical accuracy. Movies are not known for their accuracy. Do you still call them "farbs" or "farbees" in WWII? It's a term used by Rev War, 1812, and Civil War re-enactors for "less than period" people or kit.🤔
The other thing to remember is that these were citizen soldiers. Everyday people who were called up or volunteered. Their level of firearms familiarity, training and commitment to that training would vary greatly. US citizens would have some chance of previous firearms training, but many British citizens may never have touched a gun before. So regardless of period specific training or doctrine, there would have been a range of ‘styles’ of firearms handling on display.
As a Marine Corps veteran WWII was totally different back then. The weapons,gear,and theater required different methods. As long as they survived and won the day was all that mattered.