3Dmark 2000: wow imagine if games had these graphics!!! 3Dmark 2006: Wow Imagine if games had such graphics! My PC will never run those! 3Dmark Vantage: Wow, imagine if games had such graphics! I will need a nuclear PC! 3Dmark nowadays: PFFFFF lol all games have these graphics nowadays and my cheapo 1050 can run those.
Dishonored 2 came sort of close to 3DMark TimeSpy and it completely crumbled on consoles and PC. As for FireStream xtream? Games still don't have that level of visuals.
Tools-Folder Options-View-Untick "Hide extensions for known file types"-OK Guess I'm the only person that gets irritated by the files not having the extensions displayed :-)
I don't know if it's applicable to Australia, but I activated XP via phone (It's an automated process with a machine) yesterday in Austria just fine :) Wouldn't have thought it still worked, but what do you know? :)
You can get around needing online activation all the way up to win10 if you are willing to cough pirate, M$ likely doesn't give two shits about XP anymore just like 98.
Yea, but Win98 is activated offline. Means you can just use one of those keys floating around, and M$ will never know. With XP however, the machine will contact them. You can find a few VLK out there that will activate your XP, but M$ will know you pirated it. So if they want, they could track you down... (They won't track you down, probably, but COULD. And i don't want to pay a huge fine.)
What do you think that win9x is safer than windows10 when it comes to modern ransomware and other viruses most sites dont present old oses with malware
Why didn't you use service pack 3 it is the full final version of the operating system if you wanted to actually do a proper test. Trying to test operating systems on their launch day does not seem logical. A better test of all of the operating systems is to include all of the patches fixes and updates as many contained performance tweaks.
On my Athlon 64 X2 4200,Geforce 6800GT and VIA motherboard build XP will perform a lot better, a 3DMark 2001 difference of 1700 for 98 and 2100 for XP. But that is not using the method you use in the video. If i were to use similar driver revisions the performance is very close, but ultimately i try to get the most out of the system. For XP i am able to use newer drivers than i can use on 98 and this just helps the card a lot. I use the second newest DNA-Force driver in performance mode which helps even further. Great game compatibility, still good visuals and great performance. With a 10% overclock added in the mix i can get the full 2200 3dmark 2001 score i saw others get with this card. So mostly this is driver performance enhancements that never came to the drivers in 98, using older drivers in XP which i have tried its very close then it would be a 1700 - 1800 difference and likely related to my AGP support working better on XP for some reason.
@@BaguetesGarage Mine is currently decomissioned because of the summer heat (Died last year during similar weather and lost a 6800GT, don't want it to happen this year). But disabling one if the cores affinity wise might show results. To my knowledge it predates multiple cores.
I know this is pretty old but Win98SE is much more stable than Win2000. I used Win98SE for years without too much trouble. Both for games and a DAW for recording. I did usually do a full reload of the entire OS about once a year just to keep it clean however th4ese days you wouldn't be going online so not much trouble just running it off the grid.
In 2021 it is still possible to activate XP by phone, I've done it on two retro builds last week and it worked perfectly. I used the phone number given by the windows xp activator for mainland France. I don't know if it works for other countries however.
It's really impressive that their is so much more going on "under the hood" in the NT Kernel, yet the performance is nearly identical. Those MS Programmers are wizards, man.
Nice Phil! I have done similar benchmarks on my 1ghz Intel Celeron/Pentium Geforce4 currently installed i have multiboot with W98 W2K & XP and ME on other drive! I have only done 3dmark 2001 and WinME Won. with 5748 score, W98 had something like around 5500 marks Still have to test with 3dfx card. :)
It does not, the phone activation should still work but its easier to just use activation patches if you have a legal copy. If you do not own XP and you are just downloading it from the internet the volume license version does not need any online activation. Personally i modified a Media Center 2002 Dell OEM disc to no longer have the XP branding, have the unofficial SP4 and i replaced the winlogon file with one that allows me to login if its not activated. Works a charm!
thanks for the response, yeah i am sure there are just need to do some more research, i have an Athlon 64 Windows XP gaming system and trying to decide if i should set up a Windows 98 system is there a benefit of using a dedicated soundcard?
Cheap way to an S/PDIF out in certain situations. Some cards also have DDL support, DTS-C support, or both, in the drivers, however that doesn't really apply in the context of this vid, moreso than it does to semi-modern gaming.
Seeing the difference performance in games and benchmarks of all these OS:s using the same hardware, it seems about right. If the CPU speed and RAM was lowered, Windows 98/Me would get some more lead, which has to do with the way they were written specifically for the Intel 80386 architecture. The Windows 2000/XP core requires a good compiler that optimizes the C code for the specific architecture, and there is just no way computers can make up for smart humans when it comes to optimizations. If Windows 98 was still maintained today, it would still come out in the lead because PCs have not moved away from 8086 compability to this day (2017). However, it would potentially hang/crash in a few days running because it was built on top of protected mode hacks that date back to the late 1980s. Simply said, no one has the time to build an OS from scratch just to gain THAT little speed difference.
ReactOS? No, but really the C Compilers have gotten so good, and the Processors so fast, you won't notice any difference when you compare Man-Made Assembly vs Compiler-Made Assembly.
I've had problems with Windows XP and older games if the DirectX 9.0C runtimes weren't installed. www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8109 It requires XP SP2, though.
4 people ran Winbloat Vista on their machines. I have 3 machines running Windows XP with SP3, however, my IBM ThinkPad R40 needs a RAM upgrade to 1GB since 256MB RAM isn't adequate for SP3. Hell, XP boots faster in safe mode with networking than regular mode, and I can also copy files to my Packard Bell Pack-Mate 28 Plus running MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (games, drivers, etc.).
If you are going to make a WinXP retro PC just for offline gaming i recommend disabling quite a few services and features that will free up some ram and add to stability of the OS. For retro XP laptop i recommend at least Pentium M (>1.5GHz) >512MB ram and ATi 7500 with at least 32MB ram (the version with 64MB should be 128bit so that is even better but it's hard to find ) AND 4:3 1024x768 screen or XGA....If you want beast XP retro laptop go for the best Pentium M and ATi 9600/9700/9800 2GB ram ... For example Compaq NC 620c , HP NC 6000 ,Asus A4000, Acer TravelMate 8000 .....
+PhilsComputerLab Can you evaluate Via C3? It is definitely an exotic CPU which is hard to find, but I was always surprised how crappy these CPUs are and there are very few clips out there. In fact, kind of none, so people can be curious about the last competitor standing which was not AMD or Intel. (Or Crusoe CPUs, which are also very hard to find, in fact I never seen any of them).
I had problems with Windows XP on a machine running using a M2N68-LA (Narra3) in that because XP didn't have AHCI support and therefore the system would glitch I.E. the hard drive LED staying on constantly therefore I moved to Linux.
with a registry hack you can still get windows xp security updates until 2020. :) windows xp mainstream support maybe gone but its personal support is still up and running at least for 3 more years. the registry hack tricks windows update into thinking that you have personal support on your windows xp pc...
I remember the outbreak of the blaster worm. My home machine made it through with no issues thanks to the Linux gateway protecting my network. I remember the traffic hitting the gateway the internet was hammering my 512/128K ADSL connection. It was a real wake up for Microsoft to fix security thus the SP1 installation enabling firewall by default.
Just a suggestion: next time you do a MSDOS build ou video, try to benchmark playing the games through Windows 3.1. It would be fun since there isn't much info about Windows 3.1. As always, great video. Keep on rockin' man!
ah yes Windows XP my favorite OS though it preformed very well with it! mostly i use Media Center Edition of Windows XP but i still love Windows XP tho
So in a nutshell, if you don't care for 100% DOS compatibility, install XP and call it a day. A proper licence can be ripped from any old PC, at least here in Germany that's perfectly legal. I have a bunch stored in a binder collected that way. 😸 EDIT: Regarding XP, if you can get your hands on an old EeePC 4G, that one with the 7" TFT, you could do a quickly about that one with XP on it. I find it really nice as a mobile retro gaming subnotebook. eBay Germany has these for around 50€.
Bastet Furry Technically... (etc, etc) you can only buy or sell those OEM licenses to/from other people, bit transfer between your own machines. I've read a bit of the relevant EU regulations, and sadly couldn't find anything about that, so it presumably remains not legally OK :( Although I wonder if that opens a legal loophole to (for instance) sell someone else 10 XP licenses, while they also sell you 10. That technically might remain a sale, while basically "unbinding" 10 licenses on both sides of the transaction without money changing hands.
Bastet Furry Incidentally, I'm interested in buying around 2 Windows XP Professional licenses. Are any of yours on sale? Let me know if you are interested, maybe we can get in touch.
Hey btw Phil, the winmm.dll you have to rename is because every version of windows has its own winmm.dll, it is a microsoft dll. Gog shouldn't ship with that dll as the game will default to the OS's proper version anyway.
If I remember right Windows 10 officially says it will run on a 1 ghz machine. Wonder if you would give it a shot. Just to see how it holds up. Great vid as always!
Yes. I mean, i can play most Windows Games in Compatibility Mode under Windows 10. DOS i rather have its own machine. I know, DOSBOX is better, but still...
+Coleção Nintendo Dosbox is not pure garbage. It runs very well on Mac, PC and Linux, x86 and ARM. Last time i checked PCem, it barely run on my Linux PC and does not run at all on Mac. I mean, it looks like it has great hardware support, too bad i can't run it. We don't need yet another Emulator. I think, putting all that compatibility into QEMU would be a better solution, so anyone can profit.
That question keeps coming up, but the issue is what is "most recent supported"? Some use weird motherboards that are hard to find and hack drivers and then it just gets a bit silly.
So, now we know after all those years final performance differences are neglectible; did you notice a different "feeling" between the OSes, like more or less microstutter, UI responsiveness or loading times?
Bastet Furry I still remember that. I've started noticing the 60 Hz issue ever since I read about it in some magazine, couldn't unsee it ever since. I used to change the frequency to at least 75 Hz on every screen I came across (if I remember correctly)
Get a SLP-string (Hewlett-Packard) in the BIOS using and DMI-editor (or similar program) and use an Hewlett-Packard recovery disk and Bob's your uncle. (Google keywords: OEMBIOS Changer). Since Windows XP isn't supported anymore, I suspect being able to activate it would disappear soon, if not gone already. Also, this method is the least invasive, since it doesn't require patching out the activation. At least it might make a nice video of how OEMs used to pre-activate their copies of Windows XP and Windows Vista/7 (though they used SLIC and not SLP for Vista/7).
Yes, that's entirely correct. However, it would be a challenge to find a VLK that hasn't been blocked or that isn't bound to a specific region. But this would be by far the easiest solution!
Hey Phil, awesome video once again. I have two questions for you and the people in chat, maybe you can help. I need to install both Windows 98 and 2000 on my retro rig, is there some boot software that allows you to do that? (I think I had something from partition magic, but that was a long time ago so I don't remember). And also, I got a cheap Creative sound card that I found online and installed it onto my motherboard, because the onboard sound card seems to be busted, sound would only come into the left channel(speakers or headphones). However the problem I'm having is this soundcard, while it can play windows sounds just fine, when running games, they immediately switch sound to the on board card. I looked into dxDiag and the Creative card isn't listed there, is it possible that it isn't DirectX compatible, or I just have the wrong drivers? Thanks!
I'm not a fan of multi-booting. My approach is to use multiple disks and a drive bay. I will be reviewing a quad bay soon and do a video around that. Not sure what's going on with your Creative card. The drivers are usually still on the Creative site, or you can get the installation CD ISO images online and burn them.
I have some games that will run great on Windows 2000, and some on Windows 98, that's the thing. I will look into multiple HDD's though. I'll check their website, thank you! Honestly not sure which version of the card I have, it's so dodgy xD
How aureal vortex 2 based card would compatible with this via-based pc? Does there any "Sound card is not onnected to primary PCI bus" issues? Looks like these cards only compatible only when pci devices connected with memory controller by PCI bus (i440bx, ali aladdin V, e. t. c.). Any new type of connection between memory controller and PCI bus (ICH) will cause errors with sb pro emulation (even if everything seems fine). Also there will be errors in real dos. I've tryed Diamond MX300 on Core i5-3570K (Z77 chipset, which have PCI-E - to - PCI bridge) in MS-DOS 7.0. There were fine sb pro sound, adlib sound, midi wavetable. But everything hangs up in about 10 minutes of playing
It is working, but something is not clear :) Some tests on i815 motherboard showing many incompatibilities with hardware (3com network adapter) and software (Soldier od Fortune crashes after 3 minutes of playing, Diablo 2 v1.13 doesn't starting) - when SB Pro emulation and MIDI Gameport enabled (apart or simultaneously) in device manager. BTW I've got cheap Geforce 6800 Ultra 256mb (pci-e version) and going to try windows 98 on my Core-i5 machine :)
i like it that you don't hide that you have sponsored videos and also do this for sort of a living (i guess) - being upfront about it is transparent and honest! Am gonna build myself a machine with parts bought from electromyne during the spring and use your voucher - to support you, and cause it looks like a really good store with reasonable prices, and makes hassle of Ebay just annoying (not saying there aren't great sellers and good stuff there (just bought an SB Audigy from China) but finding isn't always easy...and the prices often are just wtf??)
95 & 98 are basically the same OS, except 95 is a bit crappier in every way that matters. The big killer for me is the weak USB support in 95. It's really very handy being able to chuck files over to an old machine via USB, especially since I don't connect my retro machines to networking at all.
The last version of Windows 95 doesn't support newer versions of DirectX needed for most applications/games. Simply put, Windows 95 didn't get all the updates before Windows 98 took over as the lead 9X project.
I thought about it, but I do work part-time and don't need more money, what I really need is more time :P Maybe one day if my circumstances change, like losing work, I might consider it, but it's not necessary at the moment, thank you!
I understand! It would probably be the dream thing to do this full-time, i figure! Keep it up man, would love to be there and support your work anytime!
Nah, XP is a pain to use on anything beyond like a Core2Duo/Core2Quad (LGA775), and you're limited to roughly 3.75GiB of RAM (SysRAM + VRAM combined) for NT5.1 (aka: 32-bit Win XP). You need to find NT 5.2 (Win Server 2003/64-bit Win XP) to use beyond 4GiB of RAM installed. 3.75GiB is the magical max number for 32-bit NT 5+ (2000/XP) & for the most part 32-bit NT 6+ (Vista/7/8/8.1/10) as well, as it's just below the 32-bit integer threshold of 4x1024^3, and both System RAM (DDR, DDR2...) & VRAM (GDDR5/X, HBM...) is counted in that 32-bit limit. Windows Vista = NT 6 Windows 7 = NT 6.1 Windows 8 = NT 6.2 Windows 8.1 = NT 6.3 Windows 10 = NT 6.4 (retroactively numbered as NT 10, but it's still NT 6.4 internally. That is why the in-place upgrade from 7 & 8.1 was so quick & easy, and why Microsoft was able to back-port most of the "security" features such as keylogging and in-house spyware from 10 down to 7 & 8.1)
As long as you give him $3000+ he might do it. Heck, I'll do it for $3000. Besides, most respectable YT reviewers say don't get Titans as they are a waste of money. Most of those reviewers were also provided their Titans for review.
Windows ME is the best solution for dos and windows games from this era
3Dmark 2000: wow imagine if games had these graphics!!!
3Dmark 2006: Wow Imagine if games had such graphics! My PC will never run those!
3Dmark Vantage: Wow, imagine if games had such graphics! I will need a nuclear PC!
3Dmark nowadays: PFFFFF lol all games have these graphics nowadays and my cheapo 1050 can run those.
So true :D
Dishonored 2 came sort of close to 3DMark TimeSpy and it completely crumbled on consoles and PC.
As for FireStream xtream? Games still don't have that level of visuals.
You must be really fun at parties
hahahahaha
warframe
Tools-Folder Options-View-Untick "Hide extensions for known file types"-OK
Guess I'm the only person that gets irritated by the files not having the extensions displayed :-)
Nope, you are not.
First thing I do once I install Windows :)
Thank you for the video Phil. Looks like Win98SE makes the best Gaming platform for many Retro games.
Phil I know you wanted to go "vanilla" but I would just use an XP SP3 disc in future. Saves many headaches.
Same with W2k and the SP4 media.
I don't know if it's applicable to Australia, but I activated XP via phone (It's an automated process with a machine) yesterday in Austria just fine :) Wouldn't have thought it still worked, but what do you know? :)
Ha ha good old blaster worm, struck the second you went online, good times...
"Crysis SP Demo". lol
You can get around needing online activation all the way up to win10 if you are willing to cough pirate, M$ likely doesn't give two shits about XP anymore just like 98.
Yea, but Win98 is activated offline. Means you can just use one of those keys floating around, and M$ will never know.
With XP however, the machine will contact them. You can find a few VLK out there that will activate your XP, but M$ will know you pirated it. So if they want, they could track you down...
(They won't track you down, probably, but COULD. And i don't want to pay a huge fine.)
Downloaded my copy years ago and don't even have to use a key let alone take it online ;)
What do you think that win9x is safer than windows10 when it comes to modern ransomware and other viruses most sites dont present old oses with malware
If you used the sp3 CD...you may have got the sata drivers inbuilt
Why didn't you use service pack 3 it is the full final version of the operating system if you wanted to actually do a proper test. Trying to test operating systems on their launch day does not seem logical. A better test of all of the operating systems is to include all of the patches fixes and updates as many contained performance tweaks.
Windows 2k is the most perfect retro other than 98se.
Windows 98, 2000, XP, and 7, my favorites.
Windows Me, Vista, get lost!!
2000 was built for business not for gamers
Hey phil, my 6800GT runs in agp 2x mode in win98 yet on xp it runs at 8x, cant figure it out, the same games are significantly faster on xp
On my Athlon 64 X2 4200,Geforce 6800GT and VIA motherboard build XP will perform a lot better, a 3DMark 2001 difference of 1700 for 98 and 2100 for XP. But that is not using the method you use in the video. If i were to use similar driver revisions the performance is very close, but ultimately i try to get the most out of the system. For XP i am able to use newer drivers than i can use on 98 and this just helps the card a lot. I use the second newest DNA-Force driver in performance mode which helps even further. Great game compatibility, still good visuals and great performance. With a 10% overclock added in the mix i can get the full 2200 3dmark 2001 score i saw others get with this card.
So mostly this is driver performance enhancements that never came to the drivers in 98, using older drivers in XP which i have tried its very close then it would be a 1700 - 1800 difference and likely related to my AGP support working better on XP for some reason.
Windows XP can use more that 1 Core, Windows 98 only uses 1 Core.
@@BaguetesGarage Does 3dmark 2001 use more than one?
@@Henk717 don't know, I will try to see if I can use some of my retro machines to test that.
@@BaguetesGarage Mine is currently decomissioned because of the summer heat (Died last year during similar weather and lost a 6800GT, don't want it to happen this year). But disabling one if the cores affinity wise might show results. To my knowledge it predates multiple cores.
I know this is pretty old but Win98SE is much more stable than Win2000. I used Win98SE for years without too much trouble. Both for games and a DAW for recording. I did usually do a full reload of the entire OS about once a year just to keep it clean however th4ese days you wouldn't be going online so not much trouble just running it off the grid.
what's the helicopter game?
3DMark2000
Just out of curiosity, why did you choose SP1 and not a later service pack? SP1 is good and all, I'm just wondering.
I tried to go as Vanilla as possible with all OS. 2000 told me it needed SP2 for USB 2.0, XP wanted SP1.
Oh yeah, now I remembered. Can't get USB2 in vanilla XP! Thanks for the reminder
Did you even watch the video LOL
PhilsComputerLab LOL I did. Short term memory issues man, its 3:25AM here. Sorry!
PhilsComputerLab LMAO
Is it possible to activate Windows XP anymore, or did they disable that? I haven't installed Windows XP on a machine since 2013.
In 2021 it is still possible to activate XP by phone, I've done it on two retro builds last week and it worked perfectly. I used the phone number given by the windows xp activator for mainland France. I don't know if it works for other countries however.
It's really impressive that their is so much more going on "under the hood" in the NT Kernel, yet the performance is nearly identical. Those MS Programmers are wizards, man.
For Win98SE you should use 256 MB RAM. For WinXP 2x1024 MB Dual Channel.
The Windows Xp Edition for Volume licensing didn't require activation.
XP VL doesn't require activation if you can come across that.
Why not try installing DirectX 6.1, it should work no?
Nice Phil! I have done similar benchmarks on my 1ghz Intel Celeron/Pentium Geforce4 currently installed i have multiboot with W98 W2K & XP and ME on other drive! I have only done 3dmark 2001 and WinME Won. with 5748 score, W98 had something like around 5500 marks Still have to test with 3dfx card. :)
Do Windows 98 vs Windows 2000 vs Windows XP
Does XP still activate over the Internet?
It does not, the phone activation should still work but its easier to just use activation patches if you have a legal copy. If you do not own XP and you are just downloading it from the internet the volume license version does not need any online activation. Personally i modified a Media Center 2002 Dell OEM disc to no longer have the XP branding, have the unofficial SP4 and i replaced the winlogon file with one that allows me to login if its not activated. Works a charm!
are there games that will run on Windows 98 but not on Windows XP?
I'm sure there are, but I like to focus on the vast of games that do work, rather than the few that don't.
thanks for the response, yeah i am sure there are just need to do some more research, i have an Athlon 64 Windows XP gaming system and trying to decide if i should set up a Windows 98 system
is there a benefit of using a dedicated soundcard?
Serious question about the soundcard?
Cheap way to an S/PDIF out in certain situations. Some cards also have DDL support, DTS-C support, or both, in the drivers, however that doesn't really apply in the context of this vid, moreso than it does to semi-modern gaming.
Superchad245 yes
Seeing the difference performance in games and benchmarks of all these OS:s using the same hardware, it seems about right. If the CPU speed and RAM was lowered, Windows 98/Me would get some more lead, which has to do with the way they were written specifically for the Intel 80386 architecture. The Windows 2000/XP core requires a good compiler that optimizes the C code for the specific architecture, and there is just no way computers can make up for smart humans when it comes to optimizations. If Windows 98 was still maintained today, it would still come out in the lead because PCs have not moved away from 8086 compability to this day (2017). However, it would potentially hang/crash in a few days running because it was built on top of protected mode hacks that date back to the late 1980s. Simply said, no one has the time to build an OS from scratch just to gain THAT little speed difference.
FreeDOS?
ReactOS?
No, but really the C Compilers have gotten so good, and the Processors so fast, you won't notice any difference when you compare Man-Made Assembly vs Compiler-Made Assembly.
I have a copy of XP Pro SP2 Corporate edition which does not have any activation. I am sure it is still available for DL somewhere... :)
With what program you captured video from 3dmark 2000? I tried nvidia shadow play and isn't captured correctly
I've had problems with Windows XP and older games if the DirectX 9.0C runtimes weren't installed.
www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8109
It requires XP SP2, though.
Both are horrible 98 and me.
How about with XP SP3?
4 people ran Winbloat Vista on their machines. I have 3 machines running Windows XP with SP3, however, my IBM ThinkPad R40 needs a RAM upgrade to 1GB since 256MB RAM isn't adequate for SP3. Hell, XP boots faster in safe mode with networking than regular mode, and I can also copy files to my Packard Bell Pack-Mate 28 Plus running MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (games, drivers, etc.).
If you are going to make a WinXP retro PC just for offline gaming i recommend disabling quite a few services and features that will free up some ram and add to stability of the OS. For retro XP laptop i recommend at least Pentium M (>1.5GHz) >512MB ram and ATi 7500 with at least 32MB ram (the version with 64MB should be 128bit so that is even better but it's hard to find ) AND 4:3 1024x768 screen or XGA....If you want beast XP retro laptop go for the best Pentium M and ATi 9600/9700/9800 2GB ram ...
For example Compaq NC 620c , HP NC 6000 ,Asus A4000, Acer TravelMate 8000 .....
+PhilsComputerLab
Can you evaluate Via C3? It is definitely an exotic CPU which is hard to find, but I was always surprised how crappy these CPUs are and there are very few clips out there.
In fact, kind of none, so people can be curious about the last competitor standing which was not AMD or Intel. (Or Crusoe CPUs, which are also very hard to find, in fact I never seen any of them).
Like Phil! good memories, and good solution !
Great series Phil, thanks!
I had problems with Windows XP on a machine running using a M2N68-LA (Narra3) in that because XP didn't have AHCI support and therefore the system would glitch I.E. the hard drive LED staying on constantly therefore I moved to Linux.
with a registry hack you can still get windows xp security updates until 2020. :) windows xp mainstream support maybe gone but its personal support is still up and running at least for 3 more years. the registry hack tricks windows update into thinking that you have personal support on your windows xp pc...
I remember the outbreak of the blaster worm. My home machine made it through with no issues thanks to the Linux gateway protecting my network. I remember the traffic hitting the gateway the internet was hammering my 512/128K ADSL connection.
It was a real wake up for Microsoft to fix security thus the SP1 installation enabling firewall by default.
Xp is better lol
Just a suggestion: next time you do a MSDOS build ou video, try to benchmark playing the games through Windows 3.1. It would be fun since there isn't much info about Windows 3.1. As always, great video. Keep on rockin' man!
I really wonder: Will Windows 10 work on that machine, and how would it perform? Just out of curiosity...
I wouldn't imagine it would perform very well, also program compatibility with the older games would be an issue for benchmarking.
Even then, it would be interresting, how much more demanding windows has gotten since XP...
Nope, the cpu doesn't support SSE2 and NX which is required for Win 8.1 and later
Sooo... why with the game Jane's USAF runs better on windows XP than Windows 98 SE?
ah yes Windows XP my favorite OS though it preformed very well with it! mostly i use Media Center Edition of Windows XP but i still love Windows XP tho
Hey Phil, could you give me yours gotek model number? I want to buy one of those, but there are many, amiga ones, roland etc.
So in a nutshell, if you don't care for 100% DOS compatibility, install XP and call it a day. A proper licence can be ripped from any old PC, at least here in Germany that's perfectly legal. I have a bunch stored in a binder collected that way. 😸
EDIT: Regarding XP, if you can get your hands on an old EeePC 4G, that one with the 7" TFT, you could do a quickly about that one with XP on it. I find it really nice as a mobile retro gaming subnotebook. eBay Germany has these for around 50€.
Bastet Furry Technically... (etc, etc) you can only buy or sell those OEM licenses to/from other people, bit transfer between your own machines. I've read a bit of the relevant EU regulations, and sadly couldn't find anything about that, so it presumably remains not legally OK :(
Although I wonder if that opens a legal loophole to (for instance) sell someone else 10 XP licenses, while they also sell you 10. That technically might remain a sale, while basically "unbinding" 10 licenses on both sides of the transaction without money changing hands.
Bastet Furry Incidentally, I'm interested in buying around 2 Windows XP Professional licenses. Are any of yours on sale? Let me know if you are interested, maybe we can get in touch.
i played quake 3 engine games like rtcw mohaa or sof2 on win xp it runs faster than win 98 se
Win2k was the good OS between 98 and XP. ME was broken.
Great Video, will you try out the Power VR techdemos in a video?
felt so good when you added that underscore to winmm.dll. I just *knew* that you were going to do that, lol
windows 7 or 10 could run if you had more ram wonder how it would prform
Another good video. So sad to see that little guy go.
Hey btw Phil, the winmm.dll you have to rename is because every version of windows has its own winmm.dll, it is a microsoft dll. Gog shouldn't ship with that dll as the game will default to the OS's proper version anyway.
Thanks, I was wondering about that. Maybe it helps run the game on Windows 10 or something?
If I remember right Windows 10 officially says it will run on a 1 ghz machine. Wonder if you would give it a shot. Just to see how it holds up. Great vid as always!
eeejokesno I don't think it's going to work because the CPU doesn't support SSE3 and windows 10 needs that
Good video. Now please bring back DOS! To me, that's where the real fun is.
Yes. I mean, i can play most Windows Games in Compatibility Mode under Windows 10.
DOS i rather have its own machine. I know, DOSBOX is better, but still...
Is it more convenient? Yes. Is it better? I don't think so.
Dosbox is PURE GARBAGE man ! try PCem ! sorry... pure garbage is too hard hehehe but PCem is very great!
+Coleção Nintendo Dosbox is not pure garbage. It runs very well on Mac, PC and Linux, x86 and ARM.
Last time i checked PCem, it barely run on my Linux PC and does not run at all on Mac.
I mean, it looks like it has great hardware support, too bad i can't run it.
We don't need yet another Emulator. I think, putting all that compatibility into QEMU would be a better solution, so anyone can profit.
i just lov your videos! can you make a video about win98 on the most recent supported configuration!
That question keeps coming up, but the issue is what is "most recent supported"? Some use weird motherboards that are hard to find and hack drivers and then it just gets a bit silly.
So, now we know after all those years final performance differences are neglectible; did you notice a different "feeling" between the OSes, like more or less microstutter, UI responsiveness or loading times?
If you use old XP on a CRT remember to check your refresh rate, it can get stuck at 60. Which in turn causes eyestrain within minutes.
Bastet Furry I still remember that. I've started noticing the 60 Hz issue ever since I read about it in some magazine, couldn't unsee it ever since. I used to change the frequency to at least 75 Hz on every screen I came across (if I remember correctly)
WinME lookin' good. Hell yeah.
Better solution about that...... Hmm....
Get a SLP-string (Hewlett-Packard) in the BIOS using and DMI-editor (or similar program) and use an Hewlett-Packard recovery disk and Bob's your uncle. (Google keywords: OEMBIOS Changer). Since Windows XP isn't supported anymore, I suspect being able to activate it would disappear soon, if not gone already.
Also, this method is the least invasive, since it doesn't require patching out the activation.
At least it might make a nice video of how OEMs used to pre-activate their copies of Windows XP and Windows Vista/7 (though they used SLIC and not SLP for Vista/7).
Just like that subtle reference to Jack Sparrowing the OS though.
XP Pro corporate edition requires no activation required.
Scarily enough there are still corporate organisations using XP machines.
Thank you for the hint!
Yes, that's entirely correct. However, it would be a challenge to find a VLK that hasn't been blocked or that isn't bound to a specific region. But this would be by far the easiest solution!
Hey Phil, awesome video once again. I have two questions for you and the people in chat, maybe you can help. I need to install both Windows 98 and 2000 on my retro rig, is there some boot software that allows you to do that? (I think I had something from partition magic, but that was a long time ago so I don't remember). And also, I got a cheap Creative sound card that I found online and installed it onto my motherboard, because the onboard sound card seems to be busted, sound would only come into the left channel(speakers or headphones). However the problem I'm having is this soundcard, while it can play windows sounds just fine, when running games, they immediately switch sound to the on board card. I looked into dxDiag and the Creative card isn't listed there, is it possible that it isn't DirectX compatible, or I just have the wrong drivers? Thanks!
I'm not a fan of multi-booting. My approach is to use multiple disks and a drive bay. I will be reviewing a quad bay soon and do a video around that.
Not sure what's going on with your Creative card. The drivers are usually still on the Creative site, or you can get the installation CD ISO images online and burn them.
I have some games that will run great on Windows 2000, and some on Windows 98, that's the thing. I will look into multiple HDD's though.
I'll check their website, thank you! Honestly not sure which version of the card I have, it's so dodgy xD
If it's a live! card, man I always avoid using them. Finding the right driver CD can be a nightmare...
How aureal vortex 2 based card would compatible with this via-based pc? Does there any "Sound card is not onnected to primary PCI bus" issues? Looks like these cards only compatible only when pci devices connected with memory controller by PCI bus (i440bx, ali aladdin V, e. t. c.). Any new type of connection between memory controller and PCI bus (ICH) will cause errors with sb pro emulation (even if everything seems fine). Also there will be errors in real dos. I've tryed Diamond MX300 on Core i5-3570K (Z77 chipset, which have PCI-E - to - PCI bridge) in MS-DOS 7.0. There were fine sb pro sound, adlib sound, midi wavetable. But everything hangs up in about 10 minutes of playing
Not sure, I don't see it not working to be honest.
It is working, but something is not clear :) Some tests on i815 motherboard showing many incompatibilities with hardware (3com network adapter) and software (Soldier od Fortune crashes after 3 minutes of playing, Diablo 2 v1.13 doesn't starting) - when SB Pro emulation and MIDI Gameport enabled (apart or simultaneously) in device manager. BTW I've got cheap Geforce 6800 Ultra 256mb (pci-e version) and going to try windows 98 on my Core-i5 machine :)
Loved all the videos on this series since the first one!
Hope something like this comes up again in the future!
As usual Phil, great job!
Thank you!
i like it that you don't hide that you have sponsored videos and also do this for sort of a living (i guess) - being upfront about it is transparent and honest! Am gonna build myself a machine with parts bought from electromyne during the spring and use your voucher - to support you, and cause it looks like a really good store with reasonable prices, and makes hassle of Ebay just annoying (not saying there aren't great sellers and good stuff there (just bought an SB Audigy from China) but finding isn't always easy...and the prices often are just wtf??)
Just so you know, I don't make anything from Electromyne links, I was happy getting a few rarer parts and passing on discounts to viewers
@@philscomputerlab ahh ok i wish you did haha.. thanks for pointing the store out!
What about Win95, or are there idea killing restrictions in using that?
Nah I had enough for the time being, I'm moving on :D
95 & 98 are basically the same OS, except 95 is a bit crappier in every way that matters.
The big killer for me is the weak USB support in 95. It's really very handy being able to chuck files over to an old machine via USB, especially since I don't connect my retro machines to networking at all.
RoadKillElectronics really no advantage of Win95 over 98se
The last version of Windows 95 doesn't support newer versions of DirectX needed for most applications/games. Simply put, Windows 95 didn't get all the updates before Windows 98 took over as the lead 9X project.
what helo game is that?
Thank you Phil!
114 likes and 0 dislikes
impressive.
Ah, you jinxed it :D
XD
What is there to really dislike in this video? I watched it twice and I can't see why someone would dislike it.
GiSWiG ikr
Meme alert! Memes!!
rlaxorghks
Do you have a patreon channel?
I thought about it, but I do work part-time and don't need more money, what I really need is more time :P Maybe one day if my circumstances change, like losing work, I might consider it, but it's not necessary at the moment, thank you!
I understand! It would probably be the dream thing to do this full-time, i figure! Keep it up man, would love to be there and support your work anytime!
You should build the ultimate xp gaming build. i7 cpu and titan z sli or 780ti sli :)
Nah, XP is a pain to use on anything beyond like a Core2Duo/Core2Quad (LGA775), and you're limited to roughly 3.75GiB of RAM (SysRAM + VRAM combined) for NT5.1 (aka: 32-bit Win XP).
You need to find NT 5.2 (Win Server 2003/64-bit Win XP) to use beyond 4GiB of RAM installed.
3.75GiB is the magical max number for 32-bit NT 5+ (2000/XP) & for the most part 32-bit NT 6+ (Vista/7/8/8.1/10) as well, as it's just below the 32-bit integer threshold of 4x1024^3, and both System RAM (DDR, DDR2...) & VRAM (GDDR5/X, HBM...) is counted in that 32-bit limit.
Windows Vista = NT 6
Windows 7 = NT 6.1
Windows 8 = NT 6.2
Windows 8.1 = NT 6.3
Windows 10 = NT 6.4 (retroactively numbered as NT 10, but it's still NT 6.4 internally. That is why the in-place upgrade from 7 & 8.1 was so quick & easy, and why Microsoft was able to back-port most of the "security" features such as keylogging and in-house spyware from 10 down to 7 & 8.1)
As long as you give him $3000+ he might do it. Heck, I'll do it for $3000. Besides, most respectable YT reviewers say don't get Titans as they are a waste of money. Most of those reviewers were also provided their Titans for review.
Yes i know. 780ti is a better choice.