There's a theory you should watch. The theory is Petyr left winterfell after bran told him that. Arya sees Petyr talking to a woman and he hands her something very small (like the iron coin of braavos) and either he or she whispers something to the other. People think that woman is a faceless man and she died instead of Petyr and he's lingering somewhere else ploying
@@Alfie02 That theory is called "Littlefinger is the protagonist" video from Neo,probably the best theory from GoT that i saw,and i really hope they pull it off in the last 2 episodes,it would make sense,and since golden company is an mercenary organization from Essos I still hope for some major twist that he is alive and has the G.company in his hands,but since D&D are not doing some great stuff now i am afraid that this won't happen
The show forgot their target audience, people who are interested in characters and their motivations not the people who watch it in a bar and cheer every time they see a dragon.
No, no, not cheering every time they see a dragon, but every time they see a fukk. I cheer for dragons And characters. But not for the egotistical producers who lost the plot.
@@EverthingsApplehonestly I hope he's angry. Maybe it'll motivate him to finish the story. Because if the rest of the books die with him, then the show becomes the real game of thrones ending.
I think he took his foot off the throttle when he realized dumb and dumber were butchering the show and hes gonna blow everyone away when he drops the book later this year as a big fuck u to d&d
Have you even listen to what the f he said you stupid head ? he literally made a different character and that smart one you talking about is made by their development !!
@@H0kram I hear he expressed regret for not getting to play book Euron. I feel that. Imagine auditioning for this mysterious, unpredictable, magic, kinslaying pirate -- instead you get "finger in the bum."
To be fair I also fucking despise book Euron and think he's a pretty shitty, contrived character, although he manages to be better than Show Euron, still. HOWEVER... Littlefinger was my favorite character in the books, bar none, and I've disliked what they've done with him since season 2, to be honest.
@NPC69 I feel like what they were doing for with show Euron was a guy who was scary because he was unpredictable and seemingly fearless. He and Bronn are basically the only two characters in the show to face down an attacking dragon without flinching. Euron even manages to kill a dragon, something only the Knight King himself had been able to accomplish at that point. So the intimidating factor was supposed to come from his military prowess. The man almost single-handedly won the war for Cersei. All the while making jokes about fucking. The failure of Eurons character in the show comes from the fact that he never really did anything. His character while competant was simple. Where as we came to respect and fear characters like Tywin and Roose because they were cold, calm, intelligent and ruthless. Ramsey and Joffre were scary because they had no qualms at all about torture of the most severe nature. Show Euron just was not as interesting as book Euron. Euron in the show was just a tool used to showcase the Iron Fleet.
@@edwinsoto6932 Main players? No. They are the architects of the Game of Thrones. Littlefinger facilitated the poisoning of Jon Arryn which set in motion of the events that unfolded into the Game of Thrones. (thats just one main example) Varys had the most foreign influence on the council and he was the one that facilitated Westerosi intervention (spies, poisoning, and eventual admiration) in Essos in regards to Daenerys
@@SurvivingAnotherDay The game of thrones is the power struggle in Westeros, not merely the political conflict in Westeros since Jon Arryn's death and Baelish's and Varys's machinations. Why do you think Cersei, who is completely unaware of the two's schemes, namedrops the "game of thrones"? And notably does so in reference to the struggle/intrigue for power that characterizes Westerosi (particularly the capital's) politics... If you (and the OP) meant that Littlefinger and Varys are the architects of the game's current "game session", then yes, they are the architects or gamemasters of the game of thrones. That said, the game itself precedes them by a VERY long time...
Season 1 Littlefinger: "Distrusting me was the wisest thing you’ve done since you climbed off your horse." Season 7 Littlefinger: "Lady Chancha plz take me back uwuwuwuwu"
It always bothered me how Jon Snow and everyone in winterfell was treating littlefinger at the start of season 7, I get it the viewers know he's not trustworthy, but the characters shouldn't know that. He literally brought his army across half the continent and saved the day, they should be celebrating him and calling him the savior of the north
It should be a show not tell style like in Breaking Bad except, that wasn't the case. D&D outright made him evil to the viewers and to the characters themselves. Shame really. So much potential, WASTED!
This is the comment I was looking for. Not understanding that the audience has a different opinion of Littlefinger is like when Brienne is made fun of for being a virgin even though that is a virtue in the eyes of the Westerosi. It's like breaking the fourth wall out of ignorance. I would like to add that this is similar to making Arya the hero because she is a fan favourite but also because fans didn't expect it and putting Jamie and Brienne in bed together. I can't find a term for it but it all feels connected. Maybe we can call it bad writing and/or fan fiction. In fan fiction the world-building, plot and character development have already been done and are therefore usually skipped or at most repeated, like when Sansa is showed back down by Ramsay and grows from it after already having gone through that character development with Joffrey. The characters are freed from their contextual continuity and just repeat their catchphrases when teleported into whichever unlikely encounter tickles the fancy of the shippers, over-ruling plot logic as well as character traits to get to the spectacle faster.
Yeah I didn’t understand why Jon was so hostile. Like no one had told Jon what Littlefinger had done, so why does he think he’s scheming. At least Sansa has learnt from Petyr so she knows his motivations. There’s no connection made to why Jon feels the same other than “Littlefinger is bad”
In the books you have not a clue what game Littlefinger is playing. He is complex, unpredictable, not really good nor evil, because you just don't know. A real game player and game changer. In the show he reveals his motives, he is portrayed as clearly evil or a bad guy, makes foolish, rookie mistakes, and dies without a major purpose. This is conventionalizing a character, what a shame.
@@malowski111 No one takes him as a threat.He is a low kind of Lord.And even Varys used to say I don't know what game littlefinger is playing.He was too smart to get caught even by Varys's little birds.
Aidan Gillen should have won an Emmy. His portrayal of Littlefinger was flawless. Hope to see him in more big projects in the future. Very underrated actor
@@Excitegaming0 bran literally told him in his face "chaos is a ladder", since that littlefinger knew that bran has some powers and still he remained right there
@@jdnhgr It was obvious for us, but we don't really know how much does that mean for him. We came to perceive "chaos is a ladder" as his motto, but he has thrown around a lot of phrases of similar depth throughot the show. He's not a Northerner, at this point Bran's grenseer status is not common knowledge, and Littlefinger (unlike Varys) has had very little experience with magic to know how to react in time.
D&D butchered Littlefinger and decided to make Cersei the big threat because they have a hard-on for the actress, even though Petyr is a thousand times more dangerous.
You've clearly never been through a divorce. A ruthless scheming bitch is more dangerous than anything in the world, though a lawyer like Littlefinger does make her at least three times as dangerous.
God Petyr would have been a waay better final villain than Cersei. Imagine him in complete control, no longer having to restrain himself or having to manipulate others.
Apparently, D and D wanted to finish GoT to move on to bigger and better things, believing they had established their reputations. Ironically, however, rushing through seasons 7 and 8 has tarnished them.
If they had only cancelled the show after season 4, Game of Thrones would have forever been known as one of the greatest TV shows. It could have been like OG Berserk: closing many sub plots, while leaving the main one unfinished. I mean Berserk is still praised to this day..
I think they destroyed all of the great characters... they are all a bunch of idiots now. I was almost rooting for the night king to just kill everyone in westeros.
Littlefinger got butchered so hard in the show. I lost all respect for the writers when he sold Sansa to be married to Ramsay Bolton... this... is not even remotely close to what happens in the books. And doing it makes absolutely zero sense. 1. Littlefinger is in love with Sansa. He keeps her safe and completely protected with him in the Vale in the books. They summarized her entire plot from book 4 in a single scene in season 5. Everything after the Vale is made up in the show. 2. WHAT DOES HE GAIN FROM GIVING SANSA TO THE BOLTONS?! Nothing good happens because of this in the show. It just makes Littlefinger look like a complete idiot. In fact, it makes everyone look like a complete idiot. There is no point to it other than the writers wanting to defile Sansa. Absolutely nothing comes from this for everyone involved, other than Theon saving Sansa. Which doesn't happen in the book. In the book, they give the Bolton's a fake Stark girl because no one knows what they look like anymore. And the Bolton's don't care about having a real Stark. They just want to have one so that people will bow to them. Theon helps save the fake Sansa and that's where his redemption begins because he's just saving a poor girl. See, that's actually clever. The show is so nonsensical, it's been driving me insane ever since season 5.
I don't even know if what I'm about to say makes any sense at all, but.., since I'm doing it out of pure boredom who cares, so.., didn't Littlefinger plan Sansa to marry Ramsey so Cersei would see her as a threat and give Baelish an army to take The North for himself?.., which didn't work as Littlefinger didn't count on Jon becoming King in the North.
@Matthew The plan doesn't make much sense because all the Boltons have to do is tell Cercei that Littlefinger gave Sansa to them for it to all fall apart. Also book Littlefinger doesn't seem too interested in gathering titles. There's no way that he could take control of the Vale and the North and still keep control of his vassals. The Northerners already pretty upset when the Boltons took over at at least they're a pretty high up Northern family. There's no way they wouldn't revolt if some random guy from the south that's barely one generation into nobility waltzed in with a Vale Army and took over. On top of that when Lysa's son croaks the Vale wouldn't jump up to follow Littlefinger. That's why book Littlefinger is trying to set up Sansa as the queen of both the Vale and the North. Since she has familial ties to both she would be respected and accepted and Littlefinger could be the one behind her pulling the strings without bringing too much attention to himself. I think this is the fundamental difference that GRRM was talking about in the video. Show Littlefinger plays the Game of Thrones the same way everyone else does. He backstabs people, he lies and he plots, and everyone knows he does. His goals are largely the same as everyone else's. He wants to put himself "on the throne" so to speak. Book Littlefinger on the otherhand isn't playing the game the same way others do. His goal is to gain power, but not prestige. He doesn't want to sit on the throne himself because he knows that that's the quickest way to become a target. He makes himself useful to everyone and helps everyone and he gains power through the people he's helping and manipulating. Book Littlefinger wouldn't give Sansa away because it's like giving away one of his most important and powerful pieces on the board. Especially for a plan that's basically just him doing Cersei's bidding. No matter what titles he would be gaining he would be losing power because he would be going from someone playing all sides to someone who's just Cersei's pawn.
Brandonprows...excellent comment and synopsis. Glad to hear someone who actually understands why the books are gold and the show is lead. I gave up on the show after season 3. I found season 4 to be the season when they almost completely abandoned the story and D&D went off on their own cruddy version of the story. It just kept getting shiiter and shitter. By the end, I'd say they truly turned A Song of Ice and Fire into their own, "The Last Jedi."
What I like about Petyr Baelish "Littlefinger" is that, as most of Martin's characters save for Euron, Ramsay and Gregor, he could be the hero of his own movie. You've got this 15 year old in love with a young, beautiful girl he's grown with (Cat). She is going to be married away to handsome, strong hunk Brandon Stark. One night when he's drunk, Cat sneaks into his bed and gives him the immense gift of her virginity (it means A LOT in that context, and it was Lysa, not Catelyn, Cat was a virgin when she married Eddard Stark, but as far as Petyr knows, Cat was in love with him: if she hadn't deeply loved him, she wouldn't have taken that risk). This courageous kid then challenges Brandon Stark for a duel for his beloved Cat's hand. Brandon, being older and stronger, slices him almost in half, and Petyr spends A LOT of time alone at home at the Fingers thinking about the unfairness of life. He sends a letter to Catelyn Stark (I hope Martin writes it some day), which she burns. This guy becomes über ambitious after that. He still believes Catelyn loved him, and that Cat only married Eddard because her duty and the family's honor forced her to do so. Needless to say, the rest of his life was devoted to going up in the ladder, until he became richer than many nobles and Lord Paramount of Harrenhal. This kid would be the nerdy, physically weak, Math-loving guy in a typical High School Movie. He is the protagonist of his own movie. He is affably selfish (in the books), but not THAT evil (not as much as he is shown to be in the series). What I love about this books is how much they gain with re-readings. After knowing all of this about Petyr, you go back to A Game of Thrones, see him hear Sansa talk about songs and princes (eleven year-old Sansa), and tell her: 'Life is not a song, sweetling. One day you'll understand, to your sorrow'. This is one of the moments in which Petyr Baelish is being absolutely honest, and tender, and is REALLY caring for this little girl who so much resembles the girl he loved. He KNOWS Sansa lives in a bubble, and he knows she's bound to be dragged out of it with extreme pain. Because he was like her once, and tried to be the hero of his own tale, but in real life, being bigger and stronger counts more than any other thing. I guess the character becomes hateful to us after we continue reading... But there's a part of me who deeply cares about the 15 year-old Petyr Baelish who faced a Brandon Stark in combat to fight for his one true love. I feel for this kid who had to grow as fast as possible and face the hard truths of the cruel world he lives in, while he was healing from the wounds a Brandon Stark gave him (Brandon would have killed Petyr if not for Cat, yet another reason why Petyr always believed Cat was in love with him and sacrificed their love for her family). And I especially like that moment of compassion and empathy he shows for Sansa, knowing where she comes from. I know the guy seems to be hateful... but I adore the fact that once you get into his shoes, you can understand what he's been fighting for his whole life.
True. Very, very true. This basically sums up why I think Petyr Baelish is an interesting character. Even though I do not excuse what he does, I understand why he is doing it. That is amazing.
I just like that all of g.r.r Martins major characters are complex and react like real people might. You can analyse their actions and see why they took the actions they did. Some actions may be or at least seem to be incredibly evil, but there are real human reasons behind why they were done, some excusable, other not, but the same is true in life.
I think Petyr is the Prince Who Was Promised. He actually fits in all of the prophecies. He even faked his death in S7 of the show. Many foreshadowing of him being related to the Faceless Men. His great grandfather was from Braavos too. Watch Neo Productions videos. He only has 3 but he has evidence from both book and show that LF is Azor Ahai reborn. My fav character for sure.👍🏻
the moment bran got him power and came to winterfall littlefinger was dead his only allies were the vale and sansa. even if he escaped winterfell after bran told him chaos is a ladder he would die in a matter of time and have no real impact in th story .pls correct me if im wrong but got really gone downhill in season 7 and 8
Book Littlefinger makes much more sense. How can a character that no one trusts and is constantly suspected know about everyone's secrets and scheme to gain power? It makes more sense for Littlefinger to act friendly and helpful so when the time comes he has "friends" who will trust him, which means he'll know more secrets and they'll believe in whatever he tells them or advise them on. Also, more people will be willing to help him.
the thing is he doesn't even act untrustworthy, they all just dislike him. Except when he just randomly states his extremely self centered motives to someone for no reason
This happens in movies all the time, especially when its the main antagonist. They will have a bad guy with a huge following, but is shown to be cruel and willing to randomly kill underlings, and you wonder...why the hell are people following him?!?!
When you run a brothel I suspect you eventually learn everyone's secrets. His got a whole stable of women who can drag out pillow talk from their customers.
@@xxdavecz3811 idk I personally prefered him in the first 5 seasons he was really how he was first portrayed to be and had a real effect on the game of thrones in season 7 he just was a side character who was given a poor death
I don't remember that. Probably because of the show, I thought Tyrion was ignorant that it was Petyr who framed him. Do you remember where in the books or show Tyrion says that.
@@michaelbayer5094 Tyrion is captured and taken to the Vale in AGoT because Littlefinger claimed that the dagger owned by the man who tried to kill Bran had belonged to him. He thinks back on it in ACoK before meeting with Littlefinger about the fake proposal between Myrcella and Robin Arryn. (It's worth going back and reading that scene. Tyrion also offers to bring Jon Arryn's murderer to justice. Tyrion was thinking about framing some random criminal, but Littlefinger may have seen it as an implied threat)
Littlefinger was my favourite character. I think narratively it would have been satisfying for him to win the thrones at the end. He started the war and would end it through his intelligence. But regardless if you have to kill him - and for it to feel earned - then he needs to be outsmarted while also being incredibly smart. Instead they lowered his IQ by 50 points. It was the worst character death i've seen in TV history.
They didn't dumb him down. He might be very intelligent but he doesn't have superpowers, he was basically up against a ninja and somebody with cosmic awarness.
@@some1350 Yes they did. He didn't even make an attempt to deny the allegations against him. What proof does Bran have to present to everyone present at the trial? Nothing. Sure Littlefinger knows Bran knows but when Bran says to him '' Chaos is a ladder'' littlefinger would have been out of there.
Be little finger, plot for months to kill joffrey and rescue sansa, goes personaly to rescue her, starts training her to be cuning like him, she is starting to trust him and feeling like he is her protector, she can be his key to rule over the north.... Gives her away despite everything, making all his efforts go to waste and starts behaving like a bufoon until he dies powerless and pathetic. ayyyyylmao
He gave Sansa to the Boltons so that the Lannisters will think this act as treason/betrayal from Boltons and wipe them which will give Littlefinger a chance to seize the North using Sansa. Without having to do anything on his own... Just like he started the fued between the Starks and the Lannisters in the first season
@@SohailAnsari321 U are crazy, the moment he gives sansa away he implicates himself in the killing of joffrey and loses her as a banner to rally the north. Not only that but he makes her very mad, destroys all the trust between the two and makes all the northenman hate him for giving to the boltons one of the last starks.
@@usrnotfound1859 no, his plan was good. He didn't know about Ramsay's "behaviour" Boltons marry Sansa, strenghtening their claim to the north. Lannisters see this as betrayal and attack the North. Alternatively, Stannis Baratheon takes Winterfell from the Boltons before that happens. Then, with the Boltons gone, Sansa, being a Stark, has the best claim to Winterfell and will be named Warden of the North for the Lannisters / Stannis Littlefinger at this point can manipulate Sansa easily still, so he would then be the effective ruler of the north
But how would he have taken the North when Royce completely supports Sansa? LF had no army to back his claim. Without his own army, his best bet was to be seen as a ‘liberator’ of the North alongside Sansa, first as her advisor, then he hopes to seduce her.
YOU JUST HIT THE BULLSEY. THAT'S IT! They didn't allow the show to portray Littlefinger as the winner because that would be a nod towards the "banks always win" . That would be a hidden truth the show would try to convey but the Elite didn't let them.
The first four seasons I'd say were absolutely amazing. They missed some things, but mostly due to budgetary and adaptional problems, and they added some more amazing things. Fifth season was iffy at times, but still strong. Sixth season onwards, I believe it just fell apart. D&D I'll give credit to for the first four for doing something amazing, but not these last ones.
@@riparoo9675 I'll give them credit for their earlier adaptations in season 1-4, and parts of 5 and 6 (everything since has been a complete shit-show!). They show some ability in adapting source material. They clearly have no creative ability when it comes to original content. Since the show passed the books, it has declined significantly. I genuinely can't associate season 7 and 8 with earlier seasons. It has become an entirely different show. Watching new episodes fills me with despair. I will only watch the show now as it appears to be the only likely payoff to ASOIAF, as I can't see GRRM finishing the books.
Who told you to watch then? Books are books and a TV series is a TV series. Comparing 2 very different mediums is retarded AF. Calling D&D complete hacks shows your Dunning Kruger effect. You have neither written the books nor made a TV series. So STFU. Especially if the writer has given permission to the shoemakers. With full knowledge that things won't be the same as books. They can never be the same.
@@anujmchitale Its like you are saying we can't compare fish meat with chicken... They are different, yes, but they are both food. And so we can compare which is better. you CAN compare both mediums. Only you can't expect it to be the same, specially for adaptations, because they are two different things.
@@riparoo9675 the things they added for Theon, Tywin, and Jaime are great. I actually like Tv Theon better than book Theon. But a lot of scenes they changed were bad. Some of them didn't have budget or time issues at all. An example is when Jon found Ghost. So many wrong things in that scene, but the worst one was where Theon Greyjoy tells Jon "that one's yours", while in the book Jon says "This one is mine". That was an important scene that shows Jon's disposition in the Stark family. It symbolized their character and it was ruined in the show.
Baelish was one of my favourite characters, if not my favourite in GOT, he simply WAS Game of Thrones: the charming, smart villain, he was evil without destroying or burning anything, always smiling and elegant. The most dangerous man in the show, the real bad guy, he could have been much more important for the show... but NO, he had to die in the most idiot way, killed by two girls when literally EVERYTHING was gonna happening would have suggested him to run away from Winterfell for his own security. Thanks D&D for ruining such a great character and probably the greatest tv serie of all times.
It went both ways, cause it made arya and sansa look naive and hasty, thirsty for blood and revenge instead of being judicious and cunning as would befit such noble and (allegedly) experienced characters!
@@HeloisGevit Yeah, Stannis is up there too for sure. I actually thought that he would still be alive after his death in the show, cause his death made no sense, and they panned away from it. Then I realized that the writers were not interested in writing a good story in the slightest 😔 In the book he is one of the most interesting characters for sure.
It showed during S7 too, so much so that only pure denial could have saved you from not noticing it. I personally have felt that something were going down the drain ever since s5 but by s7 it was no question anymore, that something down the drain? It's a massive turd. No question about it. Pretty much only watching the last season to see how bad it can get, and so far they've done a fine job with exceeding my expectations. It is so poorly written it's laughable, and the dialogues are so dumb it makes you uncomfortable. But the guys handling the music for the show, those lads are doing a fine job! The dragons looks awesome also.
@@Telindra I'll spare you. Jon kills Dany after she destroys kings landing. Bran sits on the throne in the end. While jon gets sent back to the wall. Fin.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but Skip Woods revised and apparently rewrote Benioff's script for that movie. Benioff's original script may not have been in the final film at all, which makes him a bit more redeemable. Do I still think he's a Hollywood hack? Absolutely.
Show Baelish seemed to let his hornieness get in the way of his logic, which book/early show Baelish would never have done. "Why did you ask me to come over Sansa?" "To have Arya execute you for treason." "Haha then what? ;)"
Deathless i agree! I remember when he was cast thinking wow, can’t wait for this character to come to screen. And was like what!!!? He just a side piece even and barely touched the surface of his story
@@malena5026 yes, tv Euron is a composite character. In the books Victarion is bringing Dany back, not Theon and Yara, who are lost in the North with Stannis. Littlefinger is plotting to take the Vale by marrying Sansa, posing as his illegimate daughter Alaine, to little Arryn's heir. That's how far the show has diverged from the books.
Euron is a Fucking badass in the books and his motivation are not that clear. Does he wants the Throne or the Dragons or both or just to burn the whole world to ground and then remake it. Show's Euron-"I wanna fuck the Queen and a finger in her bum"
Euron Greyjoy in the books is this absurdly dark and intimidating figure. He has so much presence and command. In the show, he's this moustache twirling cartoon villain that can teleport around the world, and looks like he belongs in a Starz show about pirates. He's so over the top, the only thing he's missing to be a true cartoon villain is a French accent and a mask.
I love Littlefinger in the books. He’s so clever and quick-witted that even after everything he does you are still interested in what his next plan is.
We thought D&D were being creative when they killed characters before their book death, but the sad truth is they couldn’t write for such amazing characters
Exactly! He had a whole redemption arc going for him--whether that meant gaining back power or becoming a "hero" or good person and gaining back trust, using his skills to help out the starks/targaryeans.
I find it bemusing watching where they’re taking the story. It doesn’t actually bother me TOO much, because I know that there’s no way the books are going to go the same way, and in a few more years we’ll have the REAL ending.
How awesome would it have been seeing Sean Bean in a lot of these episodes as a Night's Watch member. Man.... I miss Ned Stark. Season 1 was exceptional
When I watched it for the first time I was like "Hell yeah Ned's going to reunite with Jon and live out his days ranging with his brother and son." Then after it's like "Ned is Ded"
Book Littlefinger: Devious Machiavellian that hatches clever plans upon clever plans and could be a contender for the Iron Throne Show Littlefinger: Wussy Sansa fanboy
Baelish wouldn't eventfully trust anyone not even someone he didn't think was as clever as himself. Or at the very least he would have some sort of backup. Him underestimating sansa is believable but not having another backup which would ensure his survival...
@@maoad_dib which by itself was a crap reason! Unless he knew sansa was crazy about him (like Lysa) he wouldn't have taken that chance. He knew sansa didn't even trust him that well. The only thing holding them together at that time was that he'd killed lysa to save her. And that was the twisted trust they had. Even if Sansa thought he "loved" her, she didn't love him. That entire sell sansa to boltons arc was so dumb. It wasn't needed, but if course they needed Sansa to somehow become "wiser" through her ordeal. Ugh. And then she would crush lf, who by the way should have RUN when he heard "chaos is a ladder."
everytime i listen to this oldman , i feel some sort of comfort and calmness in my inside , makes me sure that eventhough the show is blown up , at least 2 ( and at the very least 1 ) fantastic "logical" books in the world of westeros is yet to come for us ice and fire lovers.
It's becoming more and more obvious to me how skewed of a view most people have of the Asoiaf series, thinking it's incredibly violent, and I'm tired of it. A common meme everyone believes is that it's an incredibly vicious, ruthless, murderous, and sexual story, probably because of the show and the fact that that's what's used to advertise it. Like at 2:55 when the interviewer says that it's (supposedly) a vicious and ruthless story. In reality and in comparison to other series, it's really not that murderous or violent of a series. Even compared to LOTR, it's not even that more violent, it's just that the deaths are usually more thought out and don't happen on a battlefield. That's why GRRM pauses when the interviewer says that, because he's heard this before in every interview he's done since the show came out, from reporters who haven't read a single page from the books and who often haven't even seen the show. It's super annoying.
I'd say it is a good deal more violent than real life, particularly regarding smallfolk. Tywin tells his henchmen to burn all of the Riverlands and kill whoever looks ugly or rich, there are large food riots in King's Landing, most of the twenty thousand men Robb takes south die, people are burned alive on the Blackwater, and wildlings are butchered in the thousands by Stannis' men. Far fewer prisoners are taken, truces made, peaces enforced by the church, and places of worship respected than ever happened in the real Middle Ages.
I always pictured him as maybe not the final antagonist but the one that sets in motion the final conflict of self destruction of the main characters, and a mayor player in the finale
His characters inhabit a wide and complex spectrum of good and bad. Not predictable or pure. I love that. It was so refreshing to see that in a fantasy novel.
The only characters in the books who openly mistrust Littlefinger are Varys, Tyrion and the Lords of the Vale. For the first two its because they are both scheming behind the scenes and keep noticing Littlefinger's influence clashing with their own, and they can see through the façade (and know its so effective that revealing it would make them look suspicious, not him. No-one trusts Varys because he's an outsider and 'a bit odd', and due to his position everyone knows he's a spy. No-one respects Tyrion because he's a dwarf and the knowledge of his father's displeasure with him has spread so far and wide. The Lords of the Vale (or more accurately, the Lords Declarant) mistrust Littlefinger for entirely different reasons - they see him as an upstart, since they all knew of him growing up as being a petty lord from the fringes who's managed to claw his way up the ladder, and there's also a degree of jealousy and self interest as they all want the ear of Lyssa and by proxy her son Robert Arryn. They see him as a direct threat because he's positioned himself as the legal ward and Regent of the Lord of the Vale, a position they all want for themselves. The Vale is practically a different country at that stage, in a weird limbo with the rest of Westeros, and Littlefinger's power derives from outside of the Vale as much as it does his marriage to Lyssa. Not to mention he's considered a foreigner due to his recent ancestor being from Essos. That's the difference between the show and the books, in a nutshell.
I agree, That’s the interesting duality he played there. At the same time he presented and was interpreted by the power brokers in Kings Landing as harmless, he was quiet clearly setting himself up as THE power broker in the vale. Kings landing (Cersi specifically) didn’t know or honestly care about what was happening in the vale.
0:34 He has his mind and he has subtly. He climbs and he maneuvers and he was great skill with finances. D&D: Uh what other character has all those traits? Duh Bronn. He spends all his time maneuvering for money. And the best thing about Bronn is he's not subtle. He walks into taverns with a crossbow asking for lordships and that is what the world needs right now. We also kinda forgot about literally anyone else aside from the main characters in this season.
How the interviewer doesn’t grasp how the beauty of the books is made of how a lot of little pieces work together in a really intricate way, and is a lot about subtlety, and about how life has so many different aspects to it, and asks martin “because the story is about... MURRRDERR right?? RUTHLESSNESS!” is very telling of how the show failed to tell the story proper.
@@dennishilton7853 Really? I thought the show handled the Eyrie storyline horribly. It was also where they seriously lost the plot with Sansa's storyline. It was pretty apparent that they didn't really know what they wanted to do with her so they took her in one direction, abandoned that, took her in another direction, abandoned that and then they decided to give her to Ramsay which made zero sense to me and after that I kinda lost interest in show-Sansa. They took away her time to shine and turned her into a rape victim for shock value and she never really left the role as a damsel in distress after that. The show tried to make her appear strong and competent but they never really let her do anything smart, clever or cunning. Now she's just a vengeful ice queen who lands sick burns on everybody around her and loses her temper when things don't go her way. It's entertaining to watch, yeah, but it's not the Sansa I loved from the books.
@@plantemor in my opinion it was season 5 when they ruined her character, i loved the books aswell but in the end we must accept that shows and books are both different things and in the end some book readers wont like the show as much that being said i loved the show for the first 4 seasons but after that not so much.
@@dennishilton7853 Okay, this is gonna be long. Forgive me: Season four was a weird one. On one hand it was still good quality and the writing wasn't yet going competely down the shitter. The thing in season four that made me pause and start getting legit worried and mad was when they showed what happens to Craster's babies. I didn't mind all the little missteps so much. I didn't like what they were doing with Sansa but I also understood that they couldn't cover everything. That was before I knew what they would eventually do in the following seasons. Them showing what happens to Crasters babies was the first true warning sign for me that the writers did not respect or even understand the source material like I thought they did. With one scene they had completely ruined the mystery and secrecy of the white walkers. By placing a camera in the heart of their "courters" they had essentially pissed on the unspoken rule that you cannot know what happens in places where no man lives. I can tell you this: I knew from the beginning like everybody else, that the show and the books would at some point have to part ways and I was completely fine with that and was even happy about it because I wanted George to be able to tell his own story and at the time I thought the writers are actually good so I trusted that they could do an okay job making up their own ending. I quit the show after season five when I realized that they were definitely not the writers I thought they were. Returned later to give the show a second chance - got pissed off again and decided to just hate watch the show and accept that intelligent writing was no longer a thing and that now it was just some stupid fantasy show with cool effects. For awhile it was enjoyable that way. Until Beyond the Wall. No longer gave a shit. Now season 8 is out and I thought to myself: you know what, they can still fix it. It'll not be clever but at least it'll look cool and they'll probably be able to put on some cool battles and people will finally die. The Long Night Goodbye. Fuck you show. Thank you for the first 4 seasons, go fuck yourself with the rest. I expected more from the writers and so should anyone who's dedicated hours to watch this show and/or loves asoiaf. D&D got so incredibly lazy that I'm disgusted with the fact that they could bring themselves to hand over scripts THAT bad to people who'd have to spend time outside in the cold filming their shitty fan fiction for months on end and then they get to sit in the post show interviews and take all the glory for other people's hard work when they basically did nothing but crap on paper and sniff their own farts.
I just really genuinely enjoy the thought and wisdom GRRM puts into his stories, and his characters. He truly tries to deliver the impossible, and sometimes he even succeeds. I love the cunning of his characters, the randomness of those taken by death... the fear and excitement that leaves for the reader. So few works out there can truly keep you on your toes. To feel like you have the choice to root for one character or another- to attempt to understand, judge or withhold judgement for a character. His books often feel so much more alive than other fantasy novels that attempt to arrive at the same feelings. Because unlike them, he does not shy away from consequence- the true weight of actions.
I find it very hard that George would kill Littlefinger as easily. Together with Varys and Tyrion, he is one of the wisest characters in the show and one of the easiest to trust. As such, one of the unlikeliest to make a mistake and get killed because of it. Stark and Robb only die because they make big mistakes, for example. Characters generally die when they make mistakes.
He's absolutely going to be killed by one of the Starks. I think it'll most likely be Lady Stoneheart, which would be fitting, considering his obsession with Catelyn had him so focused on her family when he started his scheming. He orchestrated the death of Jon Arryn, the war between the Starks and the Lannisters, helped to get Ned killed and is now looking to force Sansa into being his Catelyn 2.0. He started their downfall and they'll be there at the end of his. Also, one of the main things GRRM focused on with his books, was how great people could be laid low in unexpected ways. Heroes like Robert Baratheon turn into fat drunks who are gored to death. Drogo was a strong, undefeated warrior who was taken out by an infected wound. Tywin Lannister, for all his sharp-eyed Machiavellian schemes and power, died on the shitter with a cross-bolt in his guts. Smart people aren't omniscient or infallible, they make mistakes like everyone else. Littlefinger has done well enough so far to sow chaos and keep himself out of the fray. That won't last forever.
Little finger is arguably the key character in all the books he sets off almost the entire chain of conflict in order to pursue progression from within it. I absolutely hated how they ended his character even though I understand the villain has to die but they made him look stupid.
Littlefinger was always the most interesting character in the show to me, too bad the writers gave him a lobotomy and threw him under the bus at the end.
Yeah, a trail by 7 of warriors little finger had swayed through the series against maybe even Cersei's or Daenys seven wouldve been goat ending. Instead he died like a punk.
I know it's almost impossible to believe that Littlefinger faked his death and he's a faceless man, and somehow he'll reappear in a plot twist situation that makes him the King of the Iron Throne. I know that won't happen. But I like to believe it. It's the perfect ending in my mind.
This is like the end of the Faceless Men training scene with Arya in season 6. Where it was hinted that maybe, just maybe, that one wasn't Arya but the Waif. Which would have explained why Jaqen H'ghar smiled at the phrase " I'm not No one, I'm Arya Stark" after all the "you have to become No one" training she got. But I guess that was one of the many scenes that don't lead to anything, despite heavily implying something more and despite the fact that if it was the real Arya, it means that she didn't understand shit in her training, didn't complete it, she isn't a Faceless Man and Jaqen failed miserably to make her one -_-
I really love the idea of Rheagar being a faceless man in the image of little finger. He shows up last minute as an incredible twist to seize the iron throne with the golden company.
I liked the actor's portrayal of Little Finger, very fun to watch. But realistically, such a person would never last, how can you last when every word you say comes out as sinister?
There is a small chance such a sinister person might last if his worth exceeds his threat. If he's a valuable asset, I doubt people get rid of him that nonchalantly. Abilities comes first, then the backstabbing later. But its a small chance though, so there's that.
@@halo1339 Bro. The example is actually pretty legitimate, though I would have chosen Char Aznable from Mobile Suit Gundam as his tribulations and parts of his character are similar to that of Littlefinger. Though if you want someone historical, I think the closest that came to mind, at least for me, is either Wu Sangui or Zhang Zongchang. Both are adept at the art of political intrigue and manipulation, both are pretty much openly sinister (especially Zhang Zongchang), and both cause so much chaos, that the downfall of the nation's they serve can be majorly attributed to them. They are others that came to mind, such as Cesare Borgia and Alcibiades, but I do not know much about them so you may have to research about them yourself. Sorry for the long post
I remember when book Littlefinger revealed that he had basically orchestrated the entire war it was such a WTF moment and in the show its barely even a oh moment
Little Finger was a great example of how single moments set characters upon a path. Peter's beating during his vie for Caitlin Tully's hand was the moment Littlefinger was born.
What always impress me is how George RR Martin talks casually of his books which are so complicated and intricated. But in the mean time he talks about it with so much simplicity
It warms my heart that we can put aside our opinions on the series and characters to realize how shit and lazy the writing in GOT has been for the past few seasons. Season 8 writing has been absolutely unbearable.
@Dark Wizard Imo, writing had already traces of shit in season 5, but I honestly liked both 5 and 6, even tho certain characters(like Tyrion and Little Finger) already made some dumb decisions. Pacing and editing was still very good. I lost my faith after the first episode of season 7, when the pacing changed drastically and the amount of stupidity increased(liked episodes 3-4 tho). Season 8 has objectively bad writing, episode 2 was good but still had some very bad scenes and the rest is horrible. A couple of good scenes can't save the entire season, they burned everything good they could do with the story in episode 3.
George stepped down as a consultant on the show after series 4 and it shows since then DandD have been picking and choosing what they want from the books and what they want to half arse for them selves
You mean the George vision form the first three books? or the one who has written two this century including such wonderful characters as Jon Connington, Eldric Dayne and priest who goes around drinking seawater?
The way I intrepid it, the “game of thrones” in the books is a shadow war between Littlefinger and Varys. Everything outside of the White Walker threat is orchestrated by these two, a treasurer and a spymaster, each vying for power in accordance to their opposing ideologies.
"probably the character that's most different from the book to the tv show" was very confused about this before i realized it was filmed before show Euron was a thing
Part of the reason that George can write so many characters from so many different perspectives so wells is that, whether be noble of heart or downright vile, he seems to have sympathy for them.
I feel that I can feel sympathy for just about anyone. I can imagine difficult life choices and scenarios that lead them to becoming who they are. What I truly struggle with though, is actually understanding them. I can assign my own methods of thinking to other people, but there are some types of reasoning that feel far too oversimplified. It takes a truly wise, thoughtful and imaginative writer to create a character that has a novel method of thinking completely separate from their own- and to have them follow that logic as they live their fantasy life. It's an uncommon talent. I wish I had it, but I know that I do not, haha.
Love you George hope I can meet you someday your interpretation of reality told through your work has forever changed my life and how I navigate through the obstacles and I how I approach defeat as well as victory...The characters that you have created are so real they feel like lifelong friends and I love how your not afraid to make us look at ourselves and accept peoples faults because we can all be both the villain as well as the hero IMO ☺️ how we could except behaviors from our “hero’s” as long as provoked but we don’t see the “villains” can be provoked just the same
Book Littlefinger reminds me of a character from the Wire. The Greek. He is not of the Avon Barksdale/Marlo Stanfield/Stringer Bell/Tywin Lannister/Joffrey Baratheon power wielder in public type and that's what makes him so powerful and effective as he is the personification of "the game" itself, the chessboard upon which all the pieces rest. Aiden Gillen also played a great player in the Wire, becoming mayor and governor in the end.
Tywin was really good at knowing who to punish and who to forgive. He pardoned most of the rebels, which made his cause stronger. The same for Robert, who made strong allies of previous enemies.
Lord Baelish was by far the most dangerous person on the show and in life. Pretend to be your friend just seeking the opportunity to stab you in the back. At least the Joffrey and Ramsey they maintained their position and we knew what we were going to get from them.
Tv Little finger screams; " He is Bad news, stay away from him!" Book little finger the complete opposite, everybody think he is harmeless and I hate him for that.
The show-writers butchered this man's masterpiece IMO. I get the impression here that he is not too happy with the show either. Looking forward to the books so that I can get the real story.
You can clearly see that it eats at GRRM that people take the wrong lessons from his story. Instead of D&D preaching "Honor gets you killed!" and most of the fanbase going with this assessment, GRRM's story is about exploring situations where the right choice is not obvious. In some cases, the most moral choice is indeed the right one whereas in others, the right choice is more moderate. Such nuance obviously escapes most of humanity so it was easier to reduce it to "backstab and profit. BIYACH" Book Littlefinger was a friendly, if a little too clever to be comfortable with, Small Council member. Show Littlefinger was all but a moustache twirling pimp that any one with their wits gathered would steer clear of. People don't realize how big of a shock it was in 1996 when Littlefinger betrayed Ned. But it is what it is........
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I feel like book Littlefinger would have gotten his ass out of Winterfell the moment after Bran told him "Chaos is a ladder".
There's a theory you should watch. The theory is Petyr left winterfell after bran told him that. Arya sees Petyr talking to a woman and he hands her something very small (like the iron coin of braavos) and either he or she whispers something to the other. People think that woman is a faceless man and she died instead of Petyr and he's lingering somewhere else ploying
Not Alfie he’s dead bro it’s not that deep
@@Alfie02 with two episodes left you still expect this theory to play out?
@@iikaedenii I'm praying for it still
@@Alfie02 That theory is called "Littlefinger is the protagonist" video from Neo,probably the best theory from GoT that i saw,and i really hope they pull it off in the last 2 episodes,it would make sense,and since golden company is an mercenary organization from Essos I still hope for some major twist that he is alive and has the G.company in his hands,but since D&D are not doing some great stuff now i am afraid that this won't happen
The show forgot their target audience, people who are interested in characters and their motivations not the people who watch it in a bar and cheer every time they see a dragon.
No, no, not cheering every time they see a dragon, but every time they see a fukk. I cheer for dragons And characters. But not for the egotistical producers who lost the plot.
You nailed it right on the head! It is more of a soap opera now than anything
"They just like severed heads really"
They didin't forgot, the just changed to the bigger audience.
This is the most accurate comment I have seen to date! 🤦♂️ can’t believe how terrible it is now
George: look how they massacred my boy.
I bet he's fucking seething. They've butchered the end of his beautifully crafted story.
@@EverthingsApplehonestly I hope he's angry. Maybe it'll motivate him to finish the story. Because if the rest of the books die with him, then the show becomes the real game of thrones ending.
@@charlieg6576 He should take a lesson from Tywin and try to save his legacy.
*boys
I think he took his foot off the throttle when he realized dumb and dumber were butchering the show and hes gonna blow everyone away when he drops the book later this year as a big fuck u to d&d
Little Finger was too smart a character for the show writers to handle...so they killed him...
Lol.
Same with Varys
And the moronic fans wanted him dead.
Have you even listen to what the f he said you stupid head ? he literally made a different character and that smart one you talking about is made by their development !!
Yeah, one way to put our disappointment 😢
Book Euron: Demigod in Valyrian steel armor, dragon binding horn, riches and fortunes, Bond villain etc
TV Show Euron: Steve Stifler
Euron " fuckboy " Greyjoy.
I feel sorry for the actor, he did what he's paid for and played what's on the script.
@@H0kram I hear he expressed regret for not getting to play book Euron.
I feel that. Imagine auditioning for this mysterious, unpredictable, magic, kinslaying pirate -- instead you get "finger in the bum."
To be fair I also fucking despise book Euron and think he's a pretty shitty, contrived character, although he manages to be better than Show Euron, still. HOWEVER... Littlefinger was my favorite character in the books, bar none, and I've disliked what they've done with him since season 2, to be honest.
Well, despite being awful, show Euron accomplished more than book one. He killed worthless sand snacks and one retardgaryen lizard. So there is that.
@NPC69 I feel like what they were doing for with show Euron was a guy who was scary because he was unpredictable and seemingly fearless. He and Bronn are basically the only two characters in the show to face down an attacking dragon without flinching. Euron even manages to kill a dragon, something only the Knight King himself had been able to accomplish at that point. So the intimidating factor was supposed to come from his military prowess. The man almost single-handedly won the war for Cersei. All the while making jokes about fucking.
The failure of Eurons character in the show comes from the fact that he never really did anything. His character while competant was simple. Where as we came to respect and fear characters like Tywin and Roose because they were cold, calm, intelligent and ruthless. Ramsey and Joffre were scary because they had no qualms at all about torture of the most severe nature. Show Euron just was not as interesting as book Euron. Euron in the show was just a tool used to showcase the Iron Fleet.
Littlefinger and Varys, more so in the books, are the architects of the Game of Thrones.
Not really the architects. More like the true (or at least main) players of the game...
Tyrion, Littlefinger and Varys are the biggest casualties from D&D writing season 5 onwards
@@edwinsoto6932 Main players? No. They are the architects of the Game of Thrones. Littlefinger facilitated the poisoning of Jon Arryn which set in motion of the events that unfolded into the Game of Thrones. (thats just one main example) Varys had the most foreign influence on the council and he was the one that facilitated Westerosi intervention (spies, poisoning, and eventual admiration) in Essos in regards to Daenerys
@@SurvivingAnotherDay The game of thrones is the power struggle in Westeros, not merely the political conflict in Westeros since Jon Arryn's death and Baelish's and Varys's machinations. Why do you think Cersei, who is completely unaware of the two's schemes, namedrops the "game of thrones"? And notably does so in reference to the struggle/intrigue for power that characterizes Westerosi (particularly the capital's) politics...
If you (and the OP) meant that Littlefinger and Varys are the architects of the game's current "game session", then yes, they are the architects or gamemasters of the game of thrones. That said, the game itself precedes them by a VERY long time...
To me they are the board masters
Season 1 Littlefinger:
"Distrusting me was the wisest thing you’ve done since you climbed off your horse."
Season 7 Littlefinger:
"Lady Chancha plz take me back uwuwuwuwu"
Gets threatened by Bran stays. Gets threatened by Jon snow stays. Dies.
D&D omfg that was a twist right?! Right. Hey where are you going?
Ah not really
PandaRobot he stayed because he set it all up! He’s a FACELESS MAN!! Look at the clues! And read the books!
Hahahahaha
season 7-8 Varys is so fking useless meanwhile, season 1-6 Varys is a political mastermind pulling strings across the seven kingdoms
It always bothered me how Jon Snow and everyone in winterfell was treating littlefinger at the start of season 7, I get it the viewers know he's not trustworthy, but the characters shouldn't know that. He literally brought his army across half the continent and saved the day, they should be celebrating him and calling him the savior of the north
It should be a show not tell style like in Breaking Bad except, that wasn't the case. D&D outright made him evil to the viewers and to the characters themselves. Shame really. So much potential, WASTED!
This is the comment I was looking for. Not understanding that the audience has a different opinion of Littlefinger is like when Brienne is made fun of for being a virgin even though that is a virtue in the eyes of the Westerosi. It's like breaking the fourth wall out of ignorance. I would like to add that this is similar to making Arya the hero because she is a fan favourite but also because fans didn't expect it and putting Jamie and Brienne in bed together. I can't find a term for it but it all feels connected.
Maybe we can call it bad writing and/or fan fiction. In fan fiction the world-building, plot and character development have already been done and are therefore usually skipped or at most repeated, like when Sansa is showed back down by Ramsay and grows from it after already having gone through that character development with Joffrey. The characters are freed from their contextual continuity and just repeat their catchphrases when teleported into whichever unlikely encounter tickles the fancy of the shippers, over-ruling plot logic as well as character traits to get to the spectacle faster.
Yeah I didn’t understand why Jon was so hostile. Like no one had told Jon what Littlefinger had done, so why does he think he’s scheming. At least Sansa has learnt from Petyr so she knows his motivations. There’s no connection made to why Jon feels the same other than “Littlefinger is bad”
They probably knew theat Littlefinger was the responsible for selling Sansa to the Boltons.
@@Joao-ur7ey and also because they knew he betrayed Ned Stark
In the books you have not a clue what game Littlefinger is playing. He is complex, unpredictable, not really good nor evil, because you just don't know. A real game player and game changer.
In the show he reveals his motives, he is portrayed as clearly evil or a bad guy, makes foolish, rookie mistakes, and dies without a major purpose.
This is conventionalizing a character, what a shame.
Yes that's true
@@akankshanayar6313 Im confused as to how you couldnt tell Littlefinger was bad in the books.
@@malowski111 No one takes him as a threat.He is a low kind of Lord.And even Varys used to say I don't know what game littlefinger is playing.He was too smart to get caught even by Varys's little birds.
@@akankshanayar6313 > even by Varys's little birds.
Wasnt caught by them in the show either.
Swear I wish George had more creative control, the show ruined so many characters. George even said they treat viewers as if they're stupid.
Aidan Gillen should have won an Emmy. His portrayal of Littlefinger was flawless. Hope to see him in more big projects in the future. Very underrated actor
Yep, a 1000 times this!
You've seen the Maze Runner trilogy?
This guy was also in the wire as well , he’s been in big roles
Crazy he was in the quantum something? He was an actor in a game
4 U
Mr. George RR Martin please finish your book because I lost trust in the show.
I really wanted him to finish before now I NEED him to finish!
I like to believe GRRM finished them a long time ago but is waiting for the show to end, so his true ending will get the attention it deserves
I hope we get winds of winter within 5 years :(
@@bigboss4178 The Ending of the book series isn't going to get any attention.
YES PLEASE GEORGES I BEG THEE
Littlefinger: The man who stated being prepared for everything wasn't prepare for an obvious twist. Thx D&D.
xxlCortez how do you expect a cripple to be able to see the past lol?
@@Excitegaming0 Because Bran hinted at it.
@@Excitegaming0 bran literally told him in his face "chaos is a ladder", since that littlefinger knew that bran has some powers and still he remained right there
@@jdnhgr It was obvious for us, but we don't really know how much does that mean for him. We came to perceive "chaos is a ladder" as his motto, but he has thrown around a lot of phrases of similar depth throughot the show. He's not a Northerner, at this point Bran's grenseer status is not common knowledge, and Littlefinger (unlike Varys) has had very little experience with magic to know how to react in time.
@@Excitegaming0 I'm not talking about that, he was completely surprised that Sansa, who he gave to Ramsay turned against him.
D&D butchered Littlefinger and decided to make Cersei the big threat because they have a hard-on for the actress, even though Petyr is a thousand times more dangerous.
You've clearly never been through a divorce. A ruthless scheming bitch is more dangerous than anything in the world, though a lawyer like Littlefinger does make her at least three times as dangerous.
God Petyr would have been a waay better final villain than Cersei. Imagine him in complete control, no longer having to restrain himself or having to manipulate others.
Sansa is underrated. She learned from Cersei , Tyrion & Ramsey as well as her father's mistakes.
@@TheSanismo Yes, and we saw that she's plotting like LF would do. Ned is rolling in his grave right now...
@@TheSanismo and from Littlefinger himself
D & D will remain in history as the writers who destroyed the greatest character and Got together
Apparently, D and D wanted to finish GoT to move on to bigger and better things, believing they had established their reputations. Ironically, however, rushing through seasons 7 and 8 has tarnished them.
If they had only cancelled the show after season 4, Game of Thrones would have forever been known as one of the greatest TV shows. It could have been like OG Berserk: closing many sub plots, while leaving the main one unfinished. I mean Berserk is still praised to this day..
griffith chapters are so good
I think they destroyed all of the great characters... they are all a bunch of idiots now. I was almost rooting for the night king to just kill everyone in westeros.
They are the reason people even know about Game of Thrones.
Littlefinger got butchered so hard in the show. I lost all respect for the writers when he sold Sansa to be married to Ramsay Bolton... this... is not even remotely close to what happens in the books. And doing it makes absolutely zero sense.
1. Littlefinger is in love with Sansa. He keeps her safe and completely protected with him in the Vale in the books. They summarized her entire plot from book 4 in a single scene in season 5. Everything after the Vale is made up in the show.
2. WHAT DOES HE GAIN FROM GIVING SANSA TO THE BOLTONS?! Nothing good happens because of this in the show. It just makes Littlefinger look like a complete idiot. In fact, it makes everyone look like a complete idiot. There is no point to it other than the writers wanting to defile Sansa. Absolutely nothing comes from this for everyone involved, other than Theon saving Sansa. Which doesn't happen in the book.
In the book, they give the Bolton's a fake Stark girl because no one knows what they look like anymore. And the Bolton's don't care about having a real Stark. They just want to have one so that people will bow to them. Theon helps save the fake Sansa and that's where his redemption begins because he's just saving a poor girl. See, that's actually clever. The show is so nonsensical, it's been driving me insane ever since season 5.
I believe it was Sansa's friend, Jenni or whatever, who was being a fake Arya bc no one had seen her at all for years
@@jesk743 I believe her name was Jeyne Pool.
I don't even know if what I'm about to say makes any sense at all, but.., since I'm doing it out of pure boredom who cares, so.., didn't Littlefinger plan Sansa to marry Ramsey so Cersei would see her as a threat and give Baelish an army to take The North for himself?.., which didn't work as Littlefinger didn't count on Jon becoming King in the North.
@Matthew The plan doesn't make much sense because all the Boltons have to do is tell Cercei that Littlefinger gave Sansa to them for it to all fall apart. Also book Littlefinger doesn't seem too interested in gathering titles. There's no way that he could take control of the Vale and the North and still keep control of his vassals. The Northerners already pretty upset when the Boltons took over at at least they're a pretty high up Northern family. There's no way they wouldn't revolt if some random guy from the south that's barely one generation into nobility waltzed in with a Vale Army and took over. On top of that when Lysa's son croaks the Vale wouldn't jump up to follow Littlefinger. That's why book Littlefinger is trying to set up Sansa as the queen of both the Vale and the North. Since she has familial ties to both she would be respected and accepted and Littlefinger could be the one behind her pulling the strings without bringing too much attention to himself.
I think this is the fundamental difference that GRRM was talking about in the video. Show Littlefinger plays the Game of Thrones the same way everyone else does. He backstabs people, he lies and he plots, and everyone knows he does. His goals are largely the same as everyone else's. He wants to put himself "on the throne" so to speak. Book Littlefinger on the otherhand isn't playing the game the same way others do. His goal is to gain power, but not prestige. He doesn't want to sit on the throne himself because he knows that that's the quickest way to become a target. He makes himself useful to everyone and helps everyone and he gains power through the people he's helping and manipulating. Book Littlefinger wouldn't give Sansa away because it's like giving away one of his most important and powerful pieces on the board. Especially for a plan that's basically just him doing Cersei's bidding. No matter what titles he would be gaining he would be losing power because he would be going from someone playing all sides to someone who's just Cersei's pawn.
Brandonprows...excellent comment and synopsis. Glad to hear someone who actually understands why the books are gold and the show is lead. I gave up on the show after season 3. I found season 4 to be the season when they almost completely abandoned the story and D&D went off on their own cruddy version of the story. It just kept getting shiiter and shitter. By the end, I'd say they truly turned A Song of Ice and Fire into their own, "The Last Jedi."
Like all characters, they stripped them down to one dimensional idiots
No they did not. At least not until this season.
you must know thte topic i guess
"not until this season" you must have been blind then, they did from season 7 or even 6.
@@Mavis847 or even 5
@@danielveres4351 ever since the show outpaced the books, it's been shit
Littlefinger is the best character. After he died on the show I realised the differences immediately.
That's because he isn't important anymore. He would be utterly useless in the battles, his talents are in politics.
@Daniel James you couldnt be more wrong
Littlefinger died when he decided to give Sansa to Boltons.
@@GreenFalcon926 Just like Varys, who is now very relevant
@@ПавелШарпов-к5л He died after the show diverged from the books, just like Tyrion and Varys.
You know who might have been really valuable in fighting Cersei? Littlefinger.
@Lydia Alexian As you see dragons are pretty useless against aimbot ballistas.
Chickens
Elephants
Faceless men
Nah, Littlefinger should have been the final enemy to defeat.
" A man without motives is a man no one suspects"
What I like about Petyr Baelish "Littlefinger" is that, as most of Martin's characters save for Euron, Ramsay and Gregor, he could be the hero of his own movie.
You've got this 15 year old in love with a young, beautiful girl he's grown with (Cat). She is going to be married away to handsome, strong hunk Brandon Stark.
One night when he's drunk, Cat sneaks into his bed and gives him the immense gift of her virginity (it means A LOT in that context, and it was Lysa, not Catelyn, Cat was a virgin when she married Eddard Stark, but as far as Petyr knows, Cat was in love with him: if she hadn't deeply loved him, she wouldn't have taken that risk).
This courageous kid then challenges Brandon Stark for a duel for his beloved Cat's hand. Brandon, being older and stronger, slices him almost in half, and Petyr spends A LOT of time alone at home at the Fingers thinking about the unfairness of life. He sends a letter to Catelyn Stark (I hope Martin writes it some day), which she burns.
This guy becomes über ambitious after that. He still believes Catelyn loved him, and that Cat only married Eddard because her duty and the family's honor forced her to do so. Needless to say, the rest of his life was devoted to going up in the ladder, until he became richer than many nobles and Lord Paramount of Harrenhal.
This kid would be the nerdy, physically weak, Math-loving guy in a typical High School Movie. He is the protagonist of his own movie. He is affably selfish (in the books), but not THAT evil (not as much as he is shown to be in the series).
What I love about this books is how much they gain with re-readings. After knowing all of this about Petyr, you go back to A Game of Thrones, see him hear Sansa talk about songs and princes (eleven year-old Sansa), and tell her:
'Life is not a song, sweetling. One day you'll understand, to your sorrow'.
This is one of the moments in which Petyr Baelish is being absolutely honest, and tender, and is REALLY caring for this little girl who so much resembles the girl he loved. He KNOWS Sansa lives in a bubble, and he knows she's bound to be dragged out of it with extreme pain. Because he was like her once, and tried to be the hero of his own tale, but in real life, being bigger and stronger counts more than any other thing.
I guess the character becomes hateful to us after we continue reading... But there's a part of me who deeply cares about the 15 year-old Petyr Baelish who faced a Brandon Stark in combat to fight for his one true love. I feel for this kid who had to grow as fast as possible and face the hard truths of the cruel world he lives in, while he was healing from the wounds a Brandon Stark gave him (Brandon would have killed Petyr if not for Cat, yet another reason why Petyr always believed Cat was in love with him and sacrificed their love for her family). And I especially like that moment of compassion and empathy he shows for Sansa, knowing where she comes from.
I know the guy seems to be hateful... but I adore the fact that once you get into his shoes, you can understand what he's been fighting for his whole life.
True. Very, very true. This basically sums up why I think Petyr Baelish is an interesting character. Even though I do not excuse what he does, I understand why he is doing it. That is amazing.
Good read bro, nicely written. Petry is the man.
I just like that all of g.r.r Martins major characters are complex and react like real people might. You can analyse their actions and see why they took the actions they did. Some actions may be or at least seem to be incredibly evil, but there are real human reasons behind why they were done, some excusable, other not, but the same is true in life.
I think Petyr is the Prince Who Was Promised. He actually fits in all of the prophecies. He even faked his death in S7 of the show. Many foreshadowing of him being related to the Faceless Men. His great grandfather was from Braavos too. Watch Neo Productions videos. He only has 3 but he has evidence from both book and show that LF is Azor Ahai reborn. My fav character for sure.👍🏻
Would cat ever choose him?
Joke's on them. Petyr is hanging out with Tupac on a remote island, laughing at how useless Varys & Tyrion have become.
Tupac is in Serbia bro
preach
Dislike for being a scumbag hater
the moment bran got him power and came to winterfall littlefinger was dead his only allies were the vale and sansa. even if he escaped winterfell after bran told him chaos is a ladder he would die in a matter of time and have no real impact in th story .pls correct me if im wrong
but got really gone downhill in season 7 and 8
@D-Ice's baby brother What?
Book Littlefinger makes much more sense. How can a character that no one trusts and is constantly suspected know about everyone's secrets and scheme to gain power? It makes more sense for Littlefinger to act friendly and helpful so when the time comes he has "friends" who will trust him, which means he'll know more secrets and they'll believe in whatever he tells them or advise them on. Also, more people will be willing to help him.
Yeah, but the issue is that book Littlefinger never would have been caught to begin with
the thing is he doesn't even act untrustworthy, they all just dislike him. Except when he just randomly states his extremely self centered motives to someone for no reason
This happens in movies all the time, especially when its the main antagonist. They will have a bad guy with a huge following, but is shown to be cruel and willing to randomly kill underlings, and you wonder...why the hell are people following him?!?!
As the best manipulators always are
When you run a brothel I suspect you eventually learn everyone's secrets. His got a whole stable of women who can drag out pillow talk from their customers.
Little finger was a great character, and the guy that played him in the show is really good actor overall. Always liked him in everything he was in.
Martin's Littlefinger was smarter than D&D.
They couldn't write his witty dialogues or schemes so they just killed him off.
DaD's Littlefinger was better than Martin's. Everybody who watch GoT loved Littlefinger how DaD wrote him.
>Martin's Littlefinger was smarter than D&D.
You know he's a fictitious character, right?
@@malowski111 yes definitely do not try to look smart mate it's a bloody figure of speech showing how poor littlefingers character was in season 7
@@xxdavecz3811 idk I personally prefered him in the first 5 seasons he was really how he was first portrayed to be and had a real effect on the game of thrones
in season 7 he just was a side character who was given a poor death
@@ahmedayman6459 Meh, he was simply caught out, no way he could have presumed something involved had Brans abilities.
In the book, Tyrion is fully aware that Littlefiger frames him for attempted murder, but he still thinks Petyr is too valuable to discard.
I don't remember that. Probably because of the show, I thought Tyrion was ignorant that it was Petyr who framed him. Do you remember where in the books or show Tyrion says that.
@@michaelbayer5094 Tyrion is captured and taken to the Vale in AGoT because Littlefinger claimed that the dagger owned by the man who tried to kill Bran had belonged to him. He thinks back on it in ACoK before meeting with Littlefinger about the fake proposal between Myrcella and Robin Arryn. (It's worth going back and reading that scene. Tyrion also offers to bring Jon Arryn's murderer to justice. Tyrion was thinking about framing some random criminal, but Littlefinger may have seen it as an implied threat)
Littlefinger was my favourite character. I think narratively it would have been satisfying for him to win the thrones at the end. He started the war and would end it through his intelligence.
But regardless if you have to kill him - and for it to feel earned - then he needs to be outsmarted while also being incredibly smart. Instead they lowered his IQ by 50 points. It was the worst character death i've seen in TV history.
"It was the worst character death i've seen in TV history.
"
Laughs in S8E3
They didn't dumb him down. He might be very intelligent but he doesn't have superpowers, he was basically up against a ninja and somebody with cosmic awarness.
Some 1 no he was dumbed down
@@some1350 Fantastic writing, 13 year old's edgy OC and crippled boy who only talks when plot wants him beats actual character with depth and wit.
@@some1350 Yes they did. He didn't even make an attempt to deny the allegations against him. What proof does Bran have to present to everyone present at the trial? Nothing.
Sure Littlefinger knows Bran knows but when Bran says to him '' Chaos is a ladder'' littlefinger would have been out of there.
Be little finger, plot for months to kill joffrey and rescue sansa, goes personaly to rescue her, starts training her to be cuning like him, she is starting to trust him and feeling like he is her protector, she can be his key to rule over the north....
Gives her away despite everything, making all his efforts go to waste and starts behaving like a bufoon until he dies powerless and pathetic.
ayyyyylmao
Why? Because they ran out of source material.
He gave Sansa to the Boltons so that the Lannisters will think this act as treason/betrayal from Boltons and wipe them which will give Littlefinger a chance to seize the North using Sansa. Without having to do anything on his own... Just like he started the fued between the Starks and the Lannisters in the first season
@@SohailAnsari321 U are crazy, the moment he gives sansa away he implicates himself in the killing of joffrey and loses her as a banner to rally the north.
Not only that but he makes her very mad, destroys all the trust between the two and makes all the northenman hate him for giving to the boltons one of the last starks.
@@usrnotfound1859 no, his plan was good. He didn't know about Ramsay's "behaviour"
Boltons marry Sansa, strenghtening their claim to the north.
Lannisters see this as betrayal and attack the North. Alternatively, Stannis Baratheon takes Winterfell from the Boltons before that happens.
Then, with the Boltons gone, Sansa, being a Stark, has the best claim to Winterfell and will be named Warden of the North for the Lannisters / Stannis
Littlefinger at this point can manipulate Sansa easily still, so he would then be the effective ruler of the north
But how would he have taken the North when Royce completely supports Sansa? LF had no army to back his claim.
Without his own army, his best bet was to be seen as a ‘liberator’ of the North alongside Sansa, first as her advisor, then he hopes to seduce her.
In real life the Bank and people like Littlefinger always win.
and what if he actually wins
YOU JUST HIT THE BULLSEY. THAT'S IT!
They didn't allow the show to portray Littlefinger as the winner because that would be a nod towards the "banks always win" .
That would be a hidden truth the show would try to convey but the Elite didn't let them.
In real life people like little Finger usually wind up in prison or dead.
Mickey E He's referring to just people in control of the money.
@@dr.psychonaut1140 Well most people that control money aren't murderers and whore mongers.
D&D are complete hacks. It has genuinely upset me how much they have butchered the wonderful source material.
The first four seasons I'd say were absolutely amazing. They missed some things, but mostly due to budgetary and adaptional problems, and they added some more amazing things.
Fifth season was iffy at times, but still strong.
Sixth season onwards, I believe it just fell apart. D&D I'll give credit to for the first four for doing something amazing, but not these last ones.
@@riparoo9675 I'll give them credit for their earlier adaptations in season 1-4, and parts of 5 and 6 (everything since has been a complete shit-show!). They show some ability in adapting source material. They clearly have no creative ability when it comes to original content. Since the show passed the books, it has declined significantly.
I genuinely can't associate season 7 and 8 with earlier seasons. It has become an entirely different show. Watching new episodes fills me with despair. I will only watch the show now as it appears to be the only likely payoff to ASOIAF, as I can't see GRRM finishing the books.
Who told you to watch then? Books are books and a TV series is a TV series. Comparing 2 very different mediums is retarded AF.
Calling D&D complete hacks shows your Dunning Kruger effect. You have neither written the books nor made a TV series. So STFU. Especially if the writer has given permission to the shoemakers. With full knowledge that things won't be the same as books. They can never be the same.
@@anujmchitale Its like you are saying we can't compare fish meat with chicken...
They are different, yes, but they are both food. And so we can compare which is better.
you CAN compare both mediums. Only you can't expect it to be the same, specially for adaptations, because they are two different things.
@@riparoo9675 the things they added for Theon, Tywin, and Jaime are great. I actually like Tv Theon better than book Theon. But a lot of scenes they changed were bad.
Some of them didn't have budget or time issues at all.
An example is when Jon found Ghost. So many wrong things in that scene, but the worst one was where Theon Greyjoy tells Jon "that one's yours", while in the book Jon says "This one is mine".
That was an important scene that shows Jon's disposition in the Stark family. It symbolized their character and it was ruined in the show.
Baelish was one of my favourite characters, if not my favourite in GOT, he simply WAS Game of Thrones: the charming, smart villain, he was evil without destroying or burning anything, always smiling and elegant. The most dangerous man in the show, the real bad guy, he could have been much more important for the show... but NO, he had to die in the most idiot way, killed by two girls when literally EVERYTHING was gonna happening would have suggested him to run away from Winterfell for his own security. Thanks D&D for ruining such a great character and probably the greatest tv serie of all times.
Yeah, Littlefinger in the show was an example of true character assassination.
Literally
Elgen I was DISGUSTED! I will never forgive or forget what D&D did to him
Don't forget Stannis too
It went both ways, cause it made arya and sansa look naive and hasty, thirsty for blood and revenge instead of being judicious and cunning as would befit such noble and (allegedly) experienced characters!
@@HeloisGevit Yeah, Stannis is up there too for sure. I actually thought that he would still be alive after his death in the show, cause his death made no sense, and they panned away from it. Then I realized that the writers were not interested in writing a good story in the slightest 😔 In the book he is one of the most interesting characters for sure.
His death was so anticlimatic that it should have stopped snowing in Winterfell
No you meant the snow in the Night King storm.
Wow!
I haven’t seen the new season but it sounds like it’s starting to show that Benioff also wrote X-Men Origins: Wolverine
You would be correct
It showed during S7 too, so much so that only pure denial could have saved you from not noticing it.
I personally have felt that something were going down the drain ever since s5 but by s7 it was no question anymore, that something down the drain? It's a massive turd. No question about it. Pretty much only watching the last season to see how bad it can get, and so far they've done a fine job with exceeding my expectations. It is so poorly written it's laughable, and the dialogues are so dumb it makes you uncomfortable.
But the guys handling the music for the show, those lads are doing a fine job! The dragons looks awesome also.
@@Telindra I'll spare you. Jon kills Dany after she destroys kings landing. Bran sits on the throne in the end. While jon gets sent back to the wall. Fin.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but Skip Woods revised and apparently rewrote Benioff's script for that movie. Benioff's original script may not have been in the final film at all, which makes him a bit more redeemable. Do I still think he's a Hollywood hack? Absolutely.
Co-wrote. No more
Show Baelish seemed to let his hornieness get in the way of his logic, which book/early show Baelish would never have done.
"Why did you ask me to come over Sansa?"
"To have Arya execute you for treason."
"Haha then what? ;)"
Little finger was supposed to throw Cersei's words back in her face before he has her killed by Sansa:
"Power is power."
Season 8 should have just been a series of interviews with R.R, then a Starbucks cup in the background would make sense.
This man is really speaking like this is history and it happened and I'm all for it.
How old is this interview? It had to be before Euron Greyjoy came back because he is by far the most different from the books.
Deathless i agree! I remember when he was cast thinking wow, can’t wait for this character to come to screen.
And was like what!!!? He just a side piece even and barely touched the surface of his story
And remember that show euron is basically both Euron and Victarion Greyjoy.
@@malena5026 yes, tv Euron is a composite character. In the books Victarion is bringing Dany back, not Theon and Yara, who are lost in the North with Stannis. Littlefinger is plotting to take the Vale by marrying Sansa, posing as his illegimate daughter Alaine, to little Arryn's heir. That's how far the show has diverged from the books.
Euron is a Fucking badass in the books and his motivation are not that clear. Does he wants the Throne or the Dragons or both or just to burn the whole world to ground and then remake it.
Show's Euron-"I wanna fuck the Queen and a finger in her bum"
Euron Greyjoy in the books is this absurdly dark and intimidating figure. He has so much presence and command.
In the show, he's this moustache twirling cartoon villain that can teleport around the world, and looks like he belongs in a Starz show about pirates.
He's so over the top, the only thing he's missing to be a true cartoon villain is a French accent and a mask.
I love Littlefinger in the books. He’s so clever and quick-witted that even after everything he does you are still interested in what his next plan is.
We thought D&D were being creative when they killed characters before their book death, but the sad truth is they couldn’t write for such amazing characters
I'd like to see a Littlefinger solo backstory rise to power
Exactly! He had a whole redemption arc going for him--whether that meant gaining back power or becoming a "hero" or good person and gaining back trust, using his skills to help out the starks/targaryeans.
i love how he talks about each of his characters with love and respect .
The directors are butchering season 8. I feel so sorry for GRRM
They started fudging it since season 5, I wasn't surprised it would go downhill but I am disappointed that it actually got this bad
Don't feel sorry for him, he will sell a lot more books as a result.
Ser Bronn of the Blackwater ser Bronn look to your sins the night is dark and full of terrors
feel sorry for us the viewer, if grrm had finished his book, we'd have the best series ever
I find it bemusing watching where they’re taking the story. It doesn’t actually bother me TOO much, because I know that there’s no way the books are going to go the same way, and in a few more years we’ll have the REAL ending.
Books are canon, TV show is an ADAPTATION.
Littlefinger is still alive.
Littlefinger, Tyrion, and Varys were the best characters...so sad to see what's happened to them all.
We still got the books so you shouldn’t be sad
Ain’t that the truth
How awesome would it have been seeing Sean Bean in a lot of these episodes as a Night's Watch member. Man.... I miss Ned Stark. Season 1 was exceptional
He would be headless soo how should this work?
TheLumaLp jeez..
When I watched it for the first time I was like "Hell yeah Ned's going to reunite with Jon and live out his days ranging with his brother and son."
Then after it's like "Ned is Ded"
I feel they'd just Rebel anyway, like he wanted to support the Baratheons anyway
Book Littlefinger: Devious Machiavellian that hatches clever plans upon clever plans and could be a contender for the Iron Throne
Show Littlefinger: Wussy Sansa fanboy
Baelish wouldn't eventfully trust anyone not even someone he didn't think was as clever as himself. Or at the very least he would have some sort of backup.
Him underestimating sansa is believable but not having another backup which would ensure his survival...
Book Petyr wold have never given Sansa to the Boltons
He was both of those things in the books and the show...
@@sebee555 his backup was trying to convince her he loved her, but the former Mrs Bolton was not interested
@@maoad_dib which by itself was a crap reason!
Unless he knew sansa was crazy about him (like Lysa) he wouldn't have taken that chance. He knew sansa didn't even trust him that well. The only thing holding them together at that time was that he'd killed lysa to save her. And that was the twisted trust they had. Even if Sansa thought he "loved" her, she didn't love him.
That entire sell sansa to boltons arc was so dumb. It wasn't needed, but if course they needed Sansa to somehow become "wiser" through her ordeal. Ugh. And then she would crush lf, who by the way should have RUN when he heard "chaos is a ladder."
everytime i listen to this oldman , i feel some sort of comfort and calmness in my inside , makes me sure that eventhough the show is blown up , at least 2 ( and at the very least 1 ) fantastic "logical" books in the world of westeros is yet to come for us ice and fire lovers.
It's becoming more and more obvious to me how skewed of a view most people have of the Asoiaf series, thinking it's incredibly violent, and I'm tired of it. A common meme everyone believes is that it's an incredibly vicious, ruthless, murderous, and sexual story, probably because of the show and the fact that that's what's used to advertise it. Like at 2:55 when the interviewer says that it's (supposedly) a vicious and ruthless story. In reality and in comparison to other series, it's really not that murderous or violent of a series. Even compared to LOTR, it's not even that more violent, it's just that the deaths are usually more thought out and don't happen on a battlefield. That's why GRRM pauses when the interviewer says that, because he's heard this before in every interview he's done since the show came out, from reporters who haven't read a single page from the books and who often haven't even seen the show. It's super annoying.
I'd say it is a good deal more violent than real life, particularly regarding smallfolk. Tywin tells his henchmen to burn all of the Riverlands and kill whoever looks ugly or rich, there are large food riots in King's Landing, most of the twenty thousand men Robb takes south die, people are burned alive on the Blackwater, and wildlings are butchered in the thousands by Stannis' men. Far fewer prisoners are taken, truces made, peaces enforced by the church, and places of worship respected than ever happened in the real Middle Ages.
@@calebsilvergleid9797 To be fair, it's happening during a particularly violent period in Westerosi history.
Wveth Sure, but then based on that one could definitely say ASoIaF is pretty violent.
I always pictured him as maybe not the final antagonist but the one that sets in motion the final conflict of self destruction of the main characters, and a mayor player in the finale
D&D's writing is a disgrace to the books
Noname Bangers whenever someone says D and D i think Dungeons and Dragons. Lel
The deadlines were always the worst enemy.
@@SporkyMcFly True, but I think that D&D said that the script for S8 was already written before the end of S7.
Sounds like you could have done a much better job, instead you wrote a few words in a RUclips video about it
@@mikemike4165 I could shit in a bag and it would be a better idea than what D&D wrote.
His characters inhabit a wide and complex spectrum of good and bad. Not predictable or pure. I love that. It was so refreshing to see that in a fantasy novel.
The way little finger takes the Vail is one of my favorite parts in the books
How does he take it in the books?
@@bloosnow4023 It's similar to the show, but more devious.
The only characters in the books who openly mistrust Littlefinger are Varys, Tyrion and the Lords of the Vale.
For the first two its because they are both scheming behind the scenes and keep noticing Littlefinger's influence clashing with their own, and they can see through the façade (and know its so effective that revealing it would make them look suspicious, not him. No-one trusts Varys because he's an outsider and 'a bit odd', and due to his position everyone knows he's a spy. No-one respects Tyrion because he's a dwarf and the knowledge of his father's displeasure with him has spread so far and wide.
The Lords of the Vale (or more accurately, the Lords Declarant) mistrust Littlefinger for entirely different reasons - they see him as an upstart, since they all knew of him growing up as being a petty lord from the fringes who's managed to claw his way up the ladder, and there's also a degree of jealousy and self interest as they all want the ear of Lyssa and by proxy her son Robert Arryn. They see him as a direct threat because he's positioned himself as the legal ward and Regent of the Lord of the Vale, a position they all want for themselves. The Vale is practically a different country at that stage, in a weird limbo with the rest of Westeros, and Littlefinger's power derives from outside of the Vale as much as it does his marriage to Lyssa. Not to mention he's considered a foreigner due to his recent ancestor being from Essos.
That's the difference between the show and the books, in a nutshell.
I agree, That’s the interesting duality he played there. At the same time he presented and was interpreted by the power brokers in Kings Landing as harmless, he was quiet clearly setting himself up as THE power broker in the vale.
Kings landing (Cersi specifically) didn’t know or honestly care about what was happening in the vale.
@@jordan6276 love how Cersei is so focused on her idiotic feud with the Tyrells that she has ignored half of the kingdoms
Tyrion also distrusts LF because he knows that LF lied about the dagger to Catelyn. Grrm arguably kinda forgets about that plotpoint but meh.
0:34 He has his mind and he has subtly. He climbs and he maneuvers and he was great skill with finances. D&D: Uh what other character has all those traits? Duh Bronn. He spends all his time maneuvering for money. And the best thing about Bronn is he's not subtle. He walks into taverns with a crossbow asking for lordships and that is what the world needs right now. We also kinda forgot about literally anyone else aside from the main characters in this season.
How the interviewer doesn’t grasp how the beauty of the books is made of how a lot of little pieces work together in a really intricate way, and is a lot about subtlety, and about how life has so many different aspects to it, and asks martin “because the story is about... MURRRDERR right?? RUTHLESSNESS!” is very telling of how the show failed to tell the story proper.
"There's a level of complexity in Game of Thrones..."
There was... there was...
Dont let us down, George.
Littlefinger and Sansa's chapters at the Eyrie were probably one of my favourite parts of the book series.
How he has the guy draw his sword on him so they break the the peace of the house, giving him the upper hand in negotiations. Fuck he's good
It was also great on the show aswell during season 4
@@dennishilton7853 Really? I thought the show handled the Eyrie storyline horribly. It was also where they seriously lost the plot with Sansa's storyline. It was pretty apparent that they didn't really know what they wanted to do with her so they took her in one direction, abandoned that, took her in another direction, abandoned that and then they decided to give her to Ramsay which made zero sense to me and after that I kinda lost interest in show-Sansa. They took away her time to shine and turned her into a rape victim for shock value and she never really left the role as a damsel in distress after that. The show tried to make her appear strong and competent but they never really let her do anything smart, clever or cunning. Now she's just a vengeful ice queen who lands sick burns on everybody around her and loses her temper when things don't go her way. It's entertaining to watch, yeah, but it's not the Sansa I loved from the books.
@@plantemor in my opinion it was season 5 when they ruined her character, i loved the books aswell but in the end we must accept that shows and books are both different things and in the end some book readers wont like the show as much that being said i loved the show for the first 4 seasons but after that not so much.
@@dennishilton7853 Okay, this is gonna be long. Forgive me:
Season four was a weird one. On one hand it was still good quality and the writing wasn't yet going competely down the shitter. The thing in season four that made me pause and start getting legit worried and mad was when they showed what happens to Craster's babies. I didn't mind all the little missteps so much. I didn't like what they were doing with Sansa but I also understood that they couldn't cover everything. That was before I knew what they would eventually do in the following seasons. Them showing what happens to Crasters babies was the first true warning sign for me that the writers did not respect or even understand the source material like I thought they did. With one scene they had completely ruined the mystery and secrecy of the white walkers. By placing a camera in the heart of their "courters" they had essentially pissed on the unspoken rule that you cannot know what happens in places where no man lives.
I can tell you this: I knew from the beginning like everybody else, that the show and the books would at some point have to part ways and I was completely fine with that and was even happy about it because I wanted George to be able to tell his own story and at the time I thought the writers are actually good so I trusted that they could do an okay job making up their own ending.
I quit the show after season five when I realized that they were definitely not the writers I thought they were. Returned later to give the show a second chance - got pissed off again and decided to just hate watch the show and accept that intelligent writing was no longer a thing and that now it was just some stupid fantasy show with cool effects. For awhile it was enjoyable that way. Until Beyond the Wall. No longer gave a shit.
Now season 8 is out and I thought to myself: you know what, they can still fix it. It'll not be clever but at least it'll look cool and they'll probably be able to put on some cool battles and people will finally die.
The Long Night
Goodbye. Fuck you show. Thank you for the first 4 seasons, go fuck yourself with the rest.
I expected more from the writers and so should anyone who's dedicated hours to watch this show and/or loves asoiaf. D&D got so incredibly lazy that I'm disgusted with the fact that they could bring themselves to hand over scripts THAT bad to people who'd have to spend time outside in the cold filming their shitty fan fiction for months on end and then they get to sit in the post show interviews and take all the glory for other people's hard work when they basically did nothing but crap on paper and sniff their own farts.
I just really genuinely enjoy the thought and wisdom GRRM puts into his stories, and his characters. He truly tries to deliver the impossible, and sometimes he even succeeds. I love the cunning of his characters, the randomness of those taken by death... the fear and excitement that leaves for the reader. So few works out there can truly keep you on your toes. To feel like you have the choice to root for one character or another- to attempt to understand, judge or withhold judgement for a character. His books often feel so much more alive than other fantasy novels that attempt to arrive at the same feelings. Because unlike them, he does not shy away from consequence- the true weight of actions.
I find it very hard that George would kill Littlefinger as easily. Together with Varys and Tyrion, he is one of the wisest characters in the show and one of the easiest to trust. As such, one of the unlikeliest to make a mistake and get killed because of it.
Stark and Robb only die because they make big mistakes, for example. Characters generally die when they make mistakes.
He's absolutely going to be killed by one of the Starks. I think it'll most likely be Lady Stoneheart, which would be fitting, considering his obsession with Catelyn had him so focused on her family when he started his scheming. He orchestrated the death of Jon Arryn, the war between the Starks and the Lannisters, helped to get Ned killed and is now looking to force Sansa into being his Catelyn 2.0. He started their downfall and they'll be there at the end of his.
Also, one of the main things GRRM focused on with his books, was how great people could be laid low in unexpected ways. Heroes like Robert Baratheon turn into fat drunks who are gored to death. Drogo was a strong, undefeated warrior who was taken out by an infected wound. Tywin Lannister, for all his sharp-eyed Machiavellian schemes and power, died on the shitter with a cross-bolt in his guts. Smart people aren't omniscient or infallible, they make mistakes like everyone else. Littlefinger has done well enough so far to sow chaos and keep himself out of the fray. That won't last forever.
Little finger is arguably the key character in all the books he sets off almost the entire chain of conflict in order to pursue progression from within it. I absolutely hated how they ended his character even though I understand the villain has to die but they made him look stupid.
Littlefinger was always the most interesting character in the show to me, too bad the writers gave him a lobotomy and threw him under the bus at the end.
Littlefinger became Middlefinger in the show!
Spot on. Book little finger is the hidden threat no one even thinks to look at.
The show still feels strange without Littlefinger.
That's because he's not dead. Just wait...
@@AidanMclaren I've heard that before but who would sign up to die and have his face on.
GRRM is probably the only person who can kill Baelish without any horseshit
little finger should haved been the..well second to the last villian the night king the very last of course little finger had so much potential
Yeah, a trail by 7 of warriors little finger had swayed through the series against maybe even Cersei's or Daenys seven wouldve been goat ending. Instead he died like a punk.
I know it's almost impossible to believe that Littlefinger faked his death and he's a faceless man, and somehow he'll reappear in a plot twist situation that makes him the King of the Iron Throne.
I know that won't happen.
But I like to believe it. It's the perfect ending in my mind.
I just posted a similar comment!
100% with you on that. Him faking his death via faceless man is far more believable than getting outwitted by two young girls.
This is like the end of the Faceless Men training scene with Arya in season 6. Where it was hinted that maybe, just maybe, that one wasn't Arya but the Waif.
Which would have explained why Jaqen H'ghar smiled at the phrase " I'm not No one, I'm Arya Stark" after all the "you have to become No one" training she got. But I guess that was one of the many scenes that don't lead to anything, despite heavily implying something more and despite the fact that if it was the real Arya, it means that she didn't understand shit in her training, didn't complete it, she isn't a Faceless Man and Jaqen failed miserably to make her one -_-
Yes, he truly is unlike any other character. He IS the fkn game of thrones. Too bad dumb and dumber decided to make him a joke and butcher him
I really love the idea of Rheagar being a faceless man in the image of little finger. He shows up last minute as an incredible twist to seize the iron throne with the golden company.
“A man with no motive is a man no one suspects.”
George is a legend! Thank you for Game of Thrones
"Little Finger" sounds much more interesting when G.R.R.M describes him.
It's a shame what happened to Littlefinger, Varys and Tyrion in the show. Thanks D&D.
I liked the actor's portrayal of Little Finger, very fun to watch. But realistically, such a person would never last, how can you last when every word you say comes out as sinister?
There is a small chance such a sinister person might last if his worth exceeds his threat. If he's a valuable asset, I doubt people get rid of him that nonchalantly. Abilities comes first, then the backstabbing later. But its a small chance though, so there's that.
Izaya in durarara is a perfect example of someone who lasts despite just that
@@jacobhines5583 Yeah because an anime about edgy kids is a perfect example for anything.
@@halo1339 no because izaya is pretty much the exact same character as little finger
@@halo1339 Bro. The example is actually pretty legitimate, though I would have chosen Char Aznable from Mobile Suit Gundam as his tribulations and parts of his character are similar to that of Littlefinger. Though if you want someone historical, I think the closest that came to mind, at least for me, is either Wu Sangui or Zhang Zongchang. Both are adept at the art of political intrigue and manipulation, both are pretty much openly sinister (especially Zhang Zongchang), and both cause so much chaos, that the downfall of the nation's they serve can be majorly attributed to them. They are others that came to mind, such as Cesare Borgia and Alcibiades, but I do not know much about them so you may have to research about them yourself.
Sorry for the long post
I remember when book Littlefinger revealed that he had basically orchestrated the entire war it was such a WTF moment and in the show its barely even a oh moment
Little Finger was a great example of how single moments set characters upon a path. Peter's beating during his vie for Caitlin Tully's hand was the moment Littlefinger was born.
GRRM : Book littlefinger and Television show Littlefinger are very different characters ...
Stark Fanboys: HE IS DEAD. DEAL WITH IT!!! NOOBS!!!
Interestingly, I also believe that Aidan Gillen can also pull off the original version of littlefinger as described by GRR.
Littlefinger should have been the one to ultimately drive Daenerys to embrace her mad queen impulsions
Yes!
Lol why?? We do not know they ever meet in the books
What always impress me is how George RR Martin talks casually of his books which are so complicated and intricated. But in the mean time he talks about it with so much simplicity
It warms my heart that we can put aside our opinions on the series and characters to realize how shit and lazy the writing in GOT has been for the past few seasons. Season 8 writing has been absolutely unbearable.
Right? People say that the season 8 "has divided the fandom", in reality it has united us under one banner(the "season 8 shit" banner).
@Dark Wizard Imo, writing had already traces of shit in season 5, but I honestly liked both 5 and 6, even tho certain characters(like Tyrion and Little Finger) already made some dumb decisions. Pacing and editing was still very good. I lost my faith after the first episode of season 7, when the pacing changed drastically and the amount of stupidity increased(liked episodes 3-4 tho). Season 8 has objectively bad writing, episode 2 was good but still had some very bad scenes and the rest is horrible. A couple of good scenes can't save the entire season, they burned everything good they could do with the story in episode 3.
Wrong. It is the best season since 4. Feminist fools on suicide watch
I missed the show when it followed the books. The horrible writers couldn't keep up with George's vision 🙂💔
Well its the book writers fault too for not finishing his damn books
George R.R. Martian told D%D what his plans are for the final 2 books. So everything you see on TV is whats going to happen in the books.
George stepped down as a consultant on the show after series 4 and it shows since then DandD have been picking and choosing what they want from the books and what they want to half arse for them selves
The ending is the only thing that would be the same.
You mean the George vision form the first three books? or the one who has written two this century including such wonderful characters as Jon Connington, Eldric Dayne and priest who goes around drinking seawater?
The way I intrepid it, the “game of thrones” in the books is a shadow war between Littlefinger and Varys. Everything outside of the White Walker threat is orchestrated by these two, a treasurer and a spymaster, each vying for power in accordance to their opposing ideologies.
I hope one day we get an animated version of George’s true game of thrones. Maybe in 2030 if he finishes winds of winter
I love when he talks in-depth about characters like this
"probably the character that's most different from the book to the tv show" was very confused about this before i realized it was filmed before show Euron was a thing
Part of the reason that George can write so many characters from so many different perspectives so wells is that, whether be noble of heart or downright vile, he seems to have sympathy for them.
I feel that I can feel sympathy for just about anyone. I can imagine difficult life choices and scenarios that lead them to becoming who they are.
What I truly struggle with though, is actually understanding them. I can assign my own methods of thinking to other people, but there are some types of reasoning that feel far too oversimplified. It takes a truly wise, thoughtful and imaginative writer to create a character that has a novel method of thinking completely separate from their own- and to have them follow that logic as they live their fantasy life. It's an uncommon talent. I wish I had it, but I know that I do not, haha.
LittleFinger has always been my favorite character. I was hoping he would have made it to the end
This is what I keep telling people. Littlefinger in the books is hands-down my favorite character!
Same. The ultimate player, the ultimate villain. I've hated what they've done to him since season 2.
Love you George hope I can meet you someday your interpretation of reality told through your work has forever changed my life and how I navigate through the obstacles and I how I approach defeat as well as victory...The characters that you have created are so real they feel like lifelong friends and I love how your not afraid to make us look at ourselves and accept peoples faults because we can all be both the villain as well as the hero IMO ☺️ how we could except behaviors from our “hero’s” as long as provoked but we don’t see the “villains” can be provoked just the same
Book Littlefinger reminds me of a character from the Wire. The Greek. He is not of the Avon Barksdale/Marlo Stanfield/Stringer Bell/Tywin Lannister/Joffrey Baratheon power wielder in public type and that's what makes him so powerful and effective as he is the personification of "the game" itself, the chessboard upon which all the pieces rest.
Aiden Gillen also played a great player in the Wire, becoming mayor and governor in the end.
I hope we get a reboot with more book accuracy some day
They Turned him into a Cartoon Villain
He was still one of the best characters in the show
Tywin was really good at knowing who to punish and who to forgive. He pardoned most of the rebels, which made his cause stronger. The same for Robert, who made strong allies of previous enemies.
you can tell he loves and is proud of his story but isnt smug about it
Lord Baelish was by far the most dangerous person on the show and in life. Pretend to be your friend just seeking the opportunity to stab you in the back. At least the Joffrey and Ramsey they maintained their position and we knew what we were going to get from them.
Tv Little finger screams; " He is Bad news, stay away from him!"
Book little finger the complete opposite, everybody think he is harmeless and I hate him for that.
The show-writers butchered this man's masterpiece IMO. I get the impression here that he is not too happy with the show either. Looking forward to the books so that I can get the real story.
I always wanted LF to win due to the fact that he came from nowhere. He didnt come from a big house or had titles with him.
You can clearly see that it eats at GRRM that people take the wrong lessons from his story. Instead of D&D preaching "Honor gets you killed!" and most of the fanbase going with this assessment, GRRM's story is about exploring situations where the right choice is not obvious. In some cases, the most moral choice is indeed the right one whereas in others, the right choice is more moderate.
Such nuance obviously escapes most of humanity so it was easier to reduce it to "backstab and profit. BIYACH"
Book Littlefinger was a friendly, if a little too clever to be comfortable with, Small Council member. Show Littlefinger was all but a moustache twirling pimp that any one with their wits gathered would steer clear of. People don't realize how big of a shock it was in 1996 when Littlefinger betrayed Ned.
But it is what it is........