The Tuesday Tune Ep 22 - Rockshox's Monarch Plus and Super Deluxe
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- Опубликовано: 4 сен 2024
- This week in the Vorsprung workshop, we take a look inside the current generations of two very similarly-intended air shocks from Rockshox - the Monarch Plus and the newer, metric-sizing-only Super Deluxe. On the surface, they have many similarities, but digging a little deeper we can see many differences in the details, including damper shaft size, adjuster configuration, piston layout, and other modifications to increase performance and robustness, but like all things, no shock is beyond criticism.
This week's monotone proudly sponsored by An Annoying Cold.
That was sweet, it is really interesting hearing from someone outside the pay reach of these big companies who knows what they are taking about. Keep them coming!
You prolly dont care at all but does anyone know of a trick to log back into an Instagram account..?
I stupidly forgot the account password. I would love any help you can give me!
@Mekhi Kenneth instablaster ;)
@Fernando Joseph thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and im trying it out now.
Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Fernando Joseph It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy!
Thank you so much you saved my ass :D
@Mekhi Kenneth happy to help xD
WAY above my pay grade :) I hope I never have to see the innards of mine. If I ever do, I'll revisit...
These videos where you tear down dampers are the best! Would love to see more of this with other shocks and forks, and maybe even laying out the shim stacks and discusing possible modifications, though you'd probably have to add a little disclaimer to that cute Mario tune at the beginning of your videos. Thanks Steve!
Wow so the metric shock has a 1/2" shaft and the imperial shock has a 10mm shaft. Rockshox need to decide what side of the ruler to use and stick to it!
1/2" is probably the next best size and there is hardware/seals etc off the shelf for it. Its called working with what you have got
@@howlingbeats2544 what? An inch is 25 mm meaning its 12.5 mm
@@alexvega9181 I think google fucked me, oh well.
Great video
I'm about to re-valve my Super Deluxe and was wondering if you could elaborate a bit about the preloaded rebound stack. My current problem is that the tune is too light and the rebound circuit isn't controlling the shock on the way back given my spring pressure. I ordered a the monarch plus tune assembly in the Mid/Mid configuration and plan to install it, test it, and go from there.
I'd love to see you do a similar review on the DVO Topaz that you guys sell.
The layout is pretty well identical to the Monarch Plus - some changes to the functional details (particularly the air can and bladder in the reservoir) but the construction is otherwise extremely similar both in design and manufacturing quality (that is to say, largely good, but not perfect).
Vorsprung Suspension indeed. The inner sleeve with places for tuning bands on both negative and positive chambers was my first clue that the Topaz was similar. I've torn down my Topaz and changed the oil to Red Line Like Water in attempt to get a more playful reactive shock. But at times it wants to pack up on high speed successive hits. I've been contemplating removing one of the two rebound shims to see if that would allow the rear wheel to rebound quicker. My rebound adjuster is maybe 2-3 clicks from full open and the low speed hits rebound a bit quickly.
That counter mearsure spring has scratched the inner stanchon
You are the best!!
Any chance of having a look at the new Trek Thru Shaft shocks? Love these vids!
I too would like to see this. It seems like total bullshit to be honest. They play it out like current IFPs have alot more "lag" than they actually do...
You are correct +Shlep, the whole "lag" thing is a fallacy. Monotube shocks with IFPs have very low friction caused by the IFP (unquestionably less than having a second shaft seal + scraper - there are now three moving seals instead of two) and they also have literally the lowest lag of any type of shock out there - they only ever drop pressure, not raise it, because the pressure ahead of the piston is already there. Thru-shafts have some advantages but also a lot of disadvantages in my view. Some of the stuff they claim about stick-slip caused by the IFP is pretty funny.
Thanks
Awesome info any chance you know what size shaft I need for a 216x57 rockshox monarch plus rc3 and where I can get one from thanks
What do you think about the Rockshox Super deluxe vs Fox DPX2?
You make it sound like the monarch plus is a bit of a simple crapy shock lol. I hated mine on my suppressor, swapped it out for a coil. Played about with it but it was too mushy
Hey man...quick question.
Is the reason for the squelch noise and knock feeling at the top of the stroke on the monarch plus due to an issue with the base valve?
So the imperial shock has a 10mm shaft and the metric has a half inch?
I'd love to see your review of Fox's new DPX2 shock - they offered on lots of enduro bikes, but are they up to the job?
Nice to hear someone, who knows what he's talking about - it's rare these days of bullshit!
Appreciate your shocking topic as only a few of the public can ..u no ..appreciate
Its cold in Canada..New Fork thoughts..
I have a Fox float 34mm rhythm Grippy..Really like it..Its lost 20mm of travel
I let air out and took top cap off as I think damper had too much oil as shock never had full travel..Riiding on oil..Only needed 60 pounds for my 180 pound weight..
So My questions
1.Cts damper probs..Ool past seal..Can that happen to air negative on fork .oil from stantions making a home in negative spring ..
2.Cold out below 0 ..Can Fox oil grease freeze and block my port..
As a test I pumped up to 150 pounds and fork travel good..wedge 2x4 between tire and fork let air out..The idea was to keep fork extended and allownport to blow out air negative..Didn't work and great force put on 2x4..Meaning air stayed in air negative..
So watched your shocking Vids..Very Informative Thx
Hi Steve,
Great videos and products as always! I'm soon going to be fitting your Secus to my fork!
May I ask what your thoughts are regarding the Super Deluxe vs the Deluxe RL/RT (non piggyback shock).
I currently have the Deluxe RT (non piggy back) but do not do long downhills so I wouldn't take advantage of the additional shock cooling, is there much else of a difference? I must admit I am not greatly impressed by its performance it seems to have too much HSC damping.
Thanks
The Super Deluxe dampers are completely different to the Deluxe RL/RT. They can be tuned to do things that the inline Deluxe simply cannot do - nothing to do with heat, just a much better damping characteristic for anything where you're descending more aggressively than typical XC riding.
another great video, I always look forward to your videos.
very informative :-)
2014 Fuel-Ex alloy frames have really bad sideloads, so stiffer bike is definitely on the wishlist, also Öhlins, suspension, any plans on video on Öhlins?
the ease of adjsutment & their once peace crown steerer make it quite interesting.
Shame some of the bike brands don't make stiff enough frames, and the right amount of flex & stiffness is crucial to prevent fast fatigue and premature wear of other components.
mine forces the shock from side to the side and eventually cracking the rocker link, but I am sure this is quite bad for the shock too.
Do you have any idea why soem fox shocks make knockign sound?
Can you do a video on how to rebuild the damper for the monarch plus?
Regarding the preloaded rebound shim on the monarch plus. Are you saying that the rebound adjustment does nothing when set slower than medium?
Great video's love learning about this stuff.
Kris Brunner what he is saying is that the rebound shim stack is so heavily preloaded/stiff, that it never really flows oil in practical use. This leaves all the oil to flow only through the needle/low speed port. You lose all the benifits of the high speed rebound stack and end up with a simple port orifice damper. The medium that is references is the tune (stiffness) of the stock rebound valving(shim stack)
NMullen119 thanks for clarifying.
Where can i get the plastic ifp cause my metal one always scratches up the resevoir
Hey mr. suspension expert. Which shock would u say is the more robust, the monarch debonair plus (imperial) or the fox dpx2? (Imperial).
I weigh 100kg and my frame is a 2015 commencal AM meta V4. Have been using the monarch debonair (not plus) and have had a lot of issues with it. Not sure if it’s because of the way the frame twists and binds the shock or what.
Ur feedback would be much appreciate. Cheers .
Looking for a new shock. Either Monarch plus RCT3 debon air or Fox DPX2. There is a 150.00 difference in price. Which one would be better fpr a VPP bike?
Given the weight of the new super delux ... wouldnt it be better off with ccdb air or vivid air?
Just got a new Rockshox Suoer deluxe RC3. My compression lever spin 360 degress. I am still have the 3 positions fine but I dont think it should do it. Any idea of what can be happening. Could not find anything online at all. Cheers
Hi. Anyone know if there is 200h service video for SuperDeluxe?
I have a Rockshox Super Deluxe that knocks. It knocks on chatter and when changing from rebound to compression. I've had it serviced and they said everything was good...
Have you seen this issue before?
Could be the shim that you can see when you open the air can (see for example @ 13:05). Where the bottom out O-ring sits. Just put a small amount of sram butter in there, on both sides of the shim and on the shaft, then push the O-ring up against it all so it sits firmly on the end of the shaft. If that doesn't help then I have no idea. 🙂
@@lonelymtbrider3369 Thank you for taking the time to reply.
I've had the shock serviced recently (before my initial comment) and the O ring was replaced that holds the travel reducer. It hasn't moved since (I've checked a couple of times) and is fairly snug.
It seems from the reading that I've done that some Deluxe just have this issue. It doesn't effect performance but annoys the hell out of people, and me.
Great video, I have my super delux rc3 set to the fastest rebound speed and it feels slow, any tips in how can I make it more responsive? Leaner oil? A revalue maybe? Help Please :)
Any thoughts on the Manitou Mattoc and the McLeod?
I dont understand how the Rebound Stack is preloaded, there are only some Spacers on the end and the lug nut. Where can i get one of those acetal ifp? This is the biggest flaw in the shock because there is no glide ring.
They use a ring shim system, not a spring to preload it. Shoot us an email and we'll get you an acetal IFP - caveat being that you need a vacuum bleeder to bleed it properly because there is no bleed screw in the IFP (unlike Rockshox, we did not think it was a good idea to tap a small diameter thread into plastic).
Vorsprung Suspension so with that said why does RS have 3 rebound tunes? Is there any actual difference at all?
Marketability? You'd have to ask them. It makes no sense to us either. It's not even the only shock this happens on.
@@VorsprungSuspension What kind of stack are you using (when tuning it) for the RC3 plus rebound then? And what about Super deluxe?
@@Jukis82 How about using the Super Deluxe B2 rebound stack, it has no preload and the same piston
In all reviews I've read it is mentioned that it is possible to change shock stroke using spacers. Is it true?
Can't increase stroke from possible, but it's possible to reduce stroke
You can't really reduce stroke either. Because of the negative air spring equalization dimple, if you reduce the stroke more than just a few mm, the negative air chamber will never fill and the shock will be extremely harsh and have a very hard top out.
You can reduce the stroke (not eye to eye) with a spacer on the damper shaft yes. Whether you'd really want to do that is up to you.
I have trek remedy 8 2018 and I was curious if I am not stuck with proprietary shock size
The shocks on the spesh enduro have a spacer inside that reduces the stroke, and uses a longer air can from what I remember. Not sure why but thats how they come.
It's heavier?! How is this innovation?! *sarcasm*
I have the RCT3 it’s crap , just spent £386 on a service at Lookmum no hands . Bike shop in London . It’s now leaking oil fucking useless shit shock thanks a lot Rockshox 😡 for the crap part you sold me