They might have to rethink lofts. Firstly all of the hundreds and hundreds of installs with it already there. Also that this is the most suitable location in the vast majority of cases. Maybe some additional protection may be required for lofts to overcome the safety issues?
@@paulstimpson8977 yeah, they need to decide whether they want the country to meet it's net zero target or not. Not everyone has a nice detached house where you have other options. Unless the option of battery storage is to be discouraged
Regarding PAS 63100:2024 | 20 Mar 2024. When installing a system in a garage used for an ICE vehicle how does it comply with the distance requirements for stored flammable materials (2m)?
PAS 63100:2024 looks like it's written by an institution that hasn't got a grip on reality. Lofts are often the ONLY suitable location for inverter setups and why not. Here's also the thing; imagine any place where an inverter catches fire - it's going to be worse than in the loft. Garage: burns garage, blows up car, people are sleeping above the garage. Dead. Utility room, often close to bedrooms/under bedrooms. Dead. Basement: Heat rises, ground floor on fire, high likelihood of Dead. Loft: Above bedroom, heat rises, it's slow to go down - highest likelihood of survival. The ideal situation is an outhouse or garden room, but in absence of that option; The loft is the BEST location.
Additional benefit of a loft, insulated or not, is that usually the temperature is higher than outside. I acknowledge that some lofts need additional venting as the temperature may exceed 60c in a closed roof space. But honestly if the temperature goes that high in the loft you have bigger issues. (60c is a real fire risk before it even becomes an inverter issue I reckon).
You are joking aren't you?? You may need to install a heater in a garage, what an insane waste of money, and power. I have my batteries in my detached garage, any decent battery will have built in heating, mine do. I have an 80w heater mat in each battery bank, works perfectly.
All the astericks have come out in this video regarding batteries, which is good. If it doesn't have self heating it's not going to be a lot of fun in cold countries, and if you live in a hot country you'll have to deal with the other end of the thermometer.
My 'offgrid' inverter, batteries, and accessories are in a dedicated tiny shed in the garden which seems to be working out okay, but I think I lost an elderly 'miniPC' out there after a couple of years due to humidity, temperature fluctuations and tiny spiders - there was some dense fine web around the power supply socket inside. I'm guessing any PCBs will eventually succumb the same way. The Raspberry Pi I replaced it with is in a sealed biscuit tin, so I'm hoping it'll last. Your choice of 'aesthetics' clip 1:17 is chef's kiss.
Dust build up from forced air flow is a problem, humidity on top of that makes it worse. It's not unusual to see poor quality paint being undermined by rust in such circumstances, and the PCBs don't fare well either. There's a lot to be said for passively cooled power equipment.
So if the installation (inverter and or batteries) is put into a location which isn’t permitted, would that mean that it wouldn’t be guaranteed or warrantied under the manufacturer warranty? What does this also mean for the MCS if it was issued? Would this also be void? What would be the customers come back if there was a fault/issue?
We just had our mcs inspection. The inspector said that lofts are fine for inverter and batterys if fitting at the cable end and weight off the rafters.
Interesting... and commonsense... I tend to install slightly larger solar systems and unlike conventional contracting, I find that the installations escalate both in equipment, wiring capacities and loads of additional 'bits' such as 3-phase RCBO's, MCB's, isolators, DC panels etc and the only way to get it to all sit 'right' is to perfect the SLD and then spend an evening designing it all in a CAD system. The issue is we all started off as AC electricians, not architects, DC electricians, network engineers, CCTV, RF communication etc! I used to go to the pub on Sunday nights, now its spent studying as if I was 18 again!
@@korona3103 100%.- in a normal house; best place. Of you have the luxury of an outhouse or garage, that's the best place. We have to acknowledge this is a luxury though.
Hahaha, basically build a custom extension. Make sure it has heating, and cooling. Is 5 metres away from anything else and is made of Titanium. Seems to me there are a few to many bureaucrats with to much time on their hands. 26% of housing stock in the UK are Terrace houses. So that counts them all out. Then we have people without garages not including terrace houses which is another 22% of UK housing stock. So we are already up to nearly 50% of houses not suitable for any form of installation apart from outside.
Has there _ever_ been a UK house fire from a commercial ESS battery? I'm not aware of any. Plenty from dodgy ebike batteries but that's a very different thing.
You would think it was a regular occurrence with the amount of fear mongering going on. Anyway Putin is about to nuke us, so a battery fire is a bit insignificant.
Just make sure the external garage has sufficient capacity to take the load, unlike the new build we got where it had just been wired into the downstairs sockets...
So are lofts not allowed for inverters? And if not, what's the reasoning? I was hoping this video would clear it up. I can see batteries aren't (and it's now regulated against).
Advised against. PAS 63100 is not an actual requirement yet. Also, as it fails to distinguish between battery chemistries, it's a rather stupid document.
Please also stop installing silly little inverters, there's not much difference in cost between 3.6kW and a 5.5kW or even the 8.8kW inverter. I've seen many a comment where someone has had 3.6kW inverter fitted (with batteries), then it doesn't cover their load, and worst still they can't charge their batteries fully in the off peak periods, which is a must in the winter months.
@TheRonskiman depends if you can as not all inverters are g100 compliant. Most DNOs are alot better now days thou I use fronious and with a meter and ct you can get G100 part 2 compliance
@@bramcoteelectrical1088 I appreciate that, but so many companies just go for the easy simple 3.68 kW option, they make their profit, and the unsuspecting customer only realises the issues later down the road. Things are improving though, but slowly.
I fitted enPhase inverters to each solar panel so that DC is outside the house. High amps is a bad idea inside a house. I suspect it will take a few years for the powers that be figure it out….
It isn't typically high amps. 12A per string on a 2-string 3000V 7kW system would be quite typical. Fits down 4mm2 cable. No higher than plenty of normal AC loads.
PAS63100 isn't mandatory, but it will be included in Amendment 4 of the 18th Edition of BS7671. However, that's not expected until summer 2026 and by then PAS63100 could have changed again.
@@xxwookey This was the problem with having Tesla on the committee when writing PAS63100. They were always going to manipulate the discourse to their advantage.
@@VinoVeritas_ That only works if there was no-one else there who knew what they were talking about. Tesla are almost unique in making non-LFP batts (although even they are using LFP now SFAIK?) so would have been pretty-much on their own arguing that NCM/NCA should be treated the same.
Perhaps it’s time new houses were built with an equipment room for all this new technology. I know not a hope.
They might have to rethink lofts. Firstly all of the hundreds and hundreds of installs with it already there. Also that this is the most suitable location in the vast majority of cases. Maybe some additional protection may be required for lofts to overcome the safety issues?
@@paulstimpson8977 yeah, they need to decide whether they want the country to meet it's net zero target or not. Not everyone has a nice detached house where you have other options. Unless the option of battery storage is to be discouraged
My left ear quite enjoyed this video.
Given the extreme temperature fluctuations in lofts, I've always oncidered this an obvious no-go straight off.
Insulated loft, fixed.
Regarding PAS 63100:2024 | 20 Mar 2024. When installing a system in a garage used for an ICE vehicle how does it comply with the distance requirements for stored flammable materials (2m)?
A petrol or diesel vehicle is not regarded as ‘storage’. It’s referring to oil and gas tanks basically.
@@joparish1037 'Regarded' or not: twenty gallons of petrol is still twenty gallons of petrol.
PAS 63100:2024 looks like it's written by an institution that hasn't got a grip on reality. Lofts are often the ONLY suitable location for inverter setups and why not. Here's also the thing; imagine any place where an inverter catches fire - it's going to be worse than in the loft.
Garage: burns garage, blows up car, people are sleeping above the garage. Dead.
Utility room, often close to bedrooms/under bedrooms. Dead.
Basement: Heat rises, ground floor on fire, high likelihood of Dead.
Loft: Above bedroom, heat rises, it's slow to go down - highest likelihood of survival.
The ideal situation is an outhouse or garden room, but in absence of that option; The loft is the BEST location.
Additional benefit of a loft, insulated or not, is that usually the temperature is higher than outside. I acknowledge that some lofts need additional venting as the temperature may exceed 60c in a closed roof space. But honestly if the temperature goes that high in the loft you have bigger issues. (60c is a real fire risk before it even becomes an inverter issue I reckon).
You are joking aren't you?? You may need to install a heater in a garage, what an insane waste of money, and power. I have my batteries in my detached garage, any decent battery will have built in heating, mine do. I have an 80w heater mat in each battery bank, works perfectly.
All the astericks have come out in this video regarding batteries, which is good. If it doesn't have self heating it's not going to be a lot of fun in cold countries, and if you live in a hot country you'll have to deal with the other end of the thermometer.
My 'offgrid' inverter, batteries, and accessories are in a dedicated tiny shed in the garden which seems to be working out okay, but I think I lost an elderly 'miniPC' out there after a couple of years due to humidity, temperature fluctuations and tiny spiders - there was some dense fine web around the power supply socket inside. I'm guessing any PCBs will eventually succumb the same way. The Raspberry Pi I replaced it with is in a sealed biscuit tin, so I'm hoping it'll last.
Your choice of 'aesthetics' clip 1:17 is chef's kiss.
Dust build up from forced air flow is a problem, humidity on top of that makes it worse. It's not unusual to see poor quality paint being undermined by rust in such circumstances, and the PCBs don't fare well either. There's a lot to be said for passively cooled power equipment.
So if the installation (inverter and or batteries) is put into a location which isn’t permitted, would that mean that it wouldn’t be guaranteed or warrantied under the manufacturer warranty?
What does this also mean for the MCS if it was issued? Would this also be void? What would be the customers come back if there was a fault/issue?
Where is a case of a house battery (LiFe) catching fire? I'll be sticking to the lofts thanks.
We just had our mcs inspection. The inspector said that lofts are fine for inverter and batterys if fitting at the cable end and weight off the rafters.
Sounds about right.
So I can't install an inverter and battery next to my bed!? Or inside the shower cubicle!?? Thank God for these regs! 🤦♂️
Interesting... and commonsense... I tend to install slightly larger solar systems and unlike conventional contracting, I find that the installations escalate both in equipment, wiring capacities and loads of additional 'bits' such as 3-phase RCBO's, MCB's, isolators, DC panels etc and the only way to get it to all sit 'right' is to perfect the SLD and then spend an evening designing it all in a CAD system. The issue is we all started off as AC electricians, not architects, DC electricians, network engineers, CCTV, RF communication etc! I used to go to the pub on Sunday nights, now its spent studying as if I was 18 again!
Theres still youtube sparks installing inverters in the lofts......!! 🤦🤦🤦
Good, it's the best place for them
@@korona3103 100%.- in a normal house; best place. Of you have the luxury of an outhouse or garage, that's the best place. We have to acknowledge this is a luxury though.
The temperature highlighted at 2.40 does not agree with what you said it should be?
what about Inverters in the loft and batteries in the garage, to save on a long DC cable run?
Hahaha, basically build a custom extension. Make sure it has heating, and cooling. Is 5 metres away from anything else and is made of Titanium. Seems to me there are a few to many bureaucrats with to much time on their hands. 26% of housing stock in the UK are Terrace houses. So that counts them all out. Then we have people without garages not including terrace houses which is another 22% of UK housing stock. So we are already up to nearly 50% of houses not suitable for any form of installation apart from outside.
Has there _ever_ been a UK house fire from a commercial ESS battery? I'm not aware of any. Plenty from dodgy ebike batteries but that's a very different thing.
You would think it was a regular occurrence with the amount of fear mongering going on. Anyway Putin is about to nuke us, so a battery fire is a bit insignificant.
Just make sure the external garage has sufficient capacity to take the load, unlike the new build we got where it had just been wired into the downstairs sockets...
So are lofts not allowed for inverters? And if not, what's the reasoning? I was hoping this video would clear it up. I can see batteries aren't (and it's now regulated against).
Advised against. PAS 63100 is not an actual requirement yet. Also, as it fails to distinguish between battery chemistries, it's a rather stupid document.
Please also stop installing silly little inverters, there's not much difference in cost between 3.6kW and a 5.5kW or even the 8.8kW inverter. I've seen many a comment where someone has had 3.6kW inverter fitted (with batteries), then it doesn't cover their load, and worst still they can't charge their batteries fully in the off peak periods, which is a must in the winter months.
Issue is sometimes you can't get grid application over 3.6kw so have to stay in a g98 application
@bramcoteelectrical1088 That's an export limit, it doesn't mean you can only have a 3.68 kW inverter, just do G100 and limit export.
@TheRonskiman depends if you can as not all inverters are g100 compliant.
Most DNOs are alot better now days thou
I use fronious and with a meter and ct you can get G100 part 2 compliance
@@bramcoteelectrical1088 I appreciate that, but so many companies just go for the easy simple 3.68 kW option, they make their profit, and the unsuspecting customer only realises the issues later down the road. Things are improving though, but slowly.
@@TheRonskiman definitely thanks for input 👍 😊 and agree with your comment
I fitted enPhase inverters to each solar panel so that DC is outside the house. High amps is a bad idea inside a house. I suspect it will take a few years for the powers that be figure it out….
It isn't typically high amps. 12A per string on a 2-string 3000V 7kW system would be quite typical. Fits down 4mm2 cable. No higher than plenty of normal AC loads.
Is PAS2035 mandatory?
No and it's also stupid, they will probably make it mandatory at some point though.
PAS63100 isn't mandatory, but it will be included in Amendment 4 of the 18th Edition of BS7671. However, that's not expected until summer 2026 and by then PAS63100 could have changed again.
@@VinoVeritas_ It needs to distinguish between NCM/NCA and LFP batteries before it's any use. The risk profile is quite different.
@@xxwookey This was the problem with having Tesla on the committee when writing PAS63100. They were always going to manipulate the discourse to their advantage.
@@VinoVeritas_ That only works if there was no-one else there who knew what they were talking about. Tesla are almost unique in making non-LFP batts (although even they are using LFP now SFAIK?) so would have been pretty-much on their own arguing that NCM/NCA should be treated the same.
This radiator in the garage is going to ruin the profitability of the whole PV/battery installation
Gonna be a lot of used solar batteries on fleabay when insurance companies declare war on them.
But the government also want to meet net zero target by using home batteries as a kind of national off grid storage, conundrum for them
And if you need to put one foot in front of the other, please seek guidance! 🤦♂️