Curing Ich or Treating Ich. What's the difference? Ich Management vs. Ich Eradication |AskBRStv Live
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Can UV Sterilizers cure Ich? How about Algae, Dinoflagellates or bacterial blooms? Do you practice Ich Management or Ich Eradication? Is there a difference? Ryan and Randy take your comments and open a conversation into the world of UV Sterilizers for saltwater tanks.
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can you guys do the par test with the radion xr15 g5 on the 24×24 tank I want to see how it compares to the kessil 360x???? please please please
We do plan on doing a G5 XR15 investigates video. Hopefully within the next month or so.
I guess im randomly asking but does any of you know a tool to get back into an Instagram account??
I was dumb lost my account password. I would love any assistance you can give me
@Jeremy Milan Instablaster ;)
@Jake Issac Thanks so much for your reply. I found the site through google and im trying it out now.
Takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
Brand new to reefing, and during all my research, quaratine prolly came up the most. I started with 2 small quarantine tanks (one for fish, one for coral and inverts) and an empty display tank. Start with your best foot forward. Thank you BRS team!
Please can you add CC switched on if possible as I am deaf and very hard to lip read, thanks 🙏
I'm a couple years into reefing now and completely agree with the concept of quarantine for all fish, I'm trying to figure out if using copper is ethical to use on fish that could not be sick as it seems like giving a person chemotherapy in case they may have cancer, I watched reef dudes stream with humble fish and it seems theres several different methods and options for different parasites and internal worms infections, many thanks for all your videos and efforts in making the hobby better for all
The proliferation of the 76 day fallow period is a huge reason people give up on the idea of ich eradication. But if you enlighten people with the information that it will only take a fallow period of 30 days and 18 hours at a tank temperature of 24 degrees Celsius or higher, then it becomes more attainable. The 76 day fallow period comes from a Colorni and Burgess study done in 1997 that intentionally extended the life cycle of ich through the use of low temperature which is not applicable in our reef tanks. However, a 1985 A. Colorni study clearly outlines the life cycle and duration of ich at the temperature and salinity normally found in our reef tanks, hence the 30 day and 18 hour fallow period. I highly recommend everyone reading the actual 1985 A. Colorni study and using its information with the transfer method for fish and the fallow period for everything else that is wet entering your tank. You definitely don’t need to eradicate ich but this is the best path to that goal in my humble opinion.
My correspondence with Dr. Colorni (who co-authored the study) can be found here: www.reef2reef.com/threads/marine-ich-and-temperature.232825/page-2#post-3367199
Also, there are other reason why a fallow period will sometimes fail: www.reef2reef.com/threads/why-a-fallow-period-will-sometimes-fail.536167/
HTH
Humblefish & Friends thanks for the info. Seems like a lot of conjecture to me. Just my opinion but I believe the failure comes from people not treating anything wet going into their aquarium including rock, sand, snails, coral or anything with a hard surface with a 30 day 18 hour fallow period then blaming some other reason for why they have ich. Not to mention improper QT of fish or an improperly executed transfer method. People make the transfer method so hard when it does not need to be. As long as the fish are small enough I just use a 5 gallon bucket and an air stone. After 9 days and 18 hours with as little as 3 transfers the fish are ich free. I spent years fighting ich and this is the only thing that has worked for me consistently. I have multiple large systems that have been ich free through a multitude of tank crashes and issues without a single fish getting ich in over 4 years.
@@Kanoa440 i can attest for the higher temperature working, i did 48 days at 80F but the corals get stressed.
My anemones and one zoa live in 82.6 degree water
In the Philippines we just smash up some garlic and you can put in a tea bag and let it soak in the aquarium till the ick or marine velvet is gone or you can add it in the sump. It's very effective and safe and you get fast resulta😊
Try it and it's actually safe for all other marine life in the tank😊
A high ORP really helps any fight including Ick in the tank. Have a 17 year old purple tang that went through three outbreaks through the years and the last was an incredible bad strain as some say Ick is getting worse. No problem for the scaleless fish and still around today. Never lost any of my fish.
One thing I don't see talked about in the community is the degradation of genealogy within the particular strain of ich in your tank. The paper I read indicated that after 18 months without new bloodlines their strains were nonviable.
Source to paper? Would love to read it as well.
this came up on auto play. In case nobody answered TSM is a fish store in NJ that quarantines all fish
Elevated temperature speeds up ich life cycle. Raise temp as high as tolerable during fallow period will increase likelihood of success. Also best to elevate temperature during medicated quarantine for the same reason.
Do you know that the current fallow suggestion period, 76 days, is based on a research that done at 20 C, a lot lower than normal tank temperature. So the minimal required day is probably quite lower. But there is no further research to find out how many days exactly, so people continue use the 76 days guideline.
@@zsxking Yah I figured it would. But as you said, no better research. I'd rather just go 80 days at a higher temperature to be extra sure.
Free swimming ich is at highest level late in day, when lights go out and overnight z
Did a qt set up went amazing! Dident have any problems no ich used hydrogen peroxide and copper combo, put fish into my main display all great, until like an idiot I out in a clean up crew with out a qt.. and it got in.. so yeah mad as he'll now its time to manege it
You probably found this out already but TSM is TSM corals. They follow very similar QT protocol like Elliott
I have a Red Sea 525xl. Originally was a reef tank. I got ich. Left the tank fallow for 80 days. Put the fish back in and within 3 days ich was back. I got tired of dealing with it. Put copper power in my main tank. Ich hasn’t showed back up. Have also added corals after the fact and haven’t had any issues with the corals. So that whole copper stays in the tank forever I don’t believe it. My 2 cents
Ryles83 this is interesting, I’m 27 days into a fallow period for Ich, originally i was going to do 4 weeks, then 6 & then 76 days, now i see your comment of 80days & within 3 days the ich returned. This is my 2nd ich/velvet breakout within 12months so knowing my luck it’s only going to come back ! Haha.. what does 1 do 🤷🏼♂️
retel8r Yea it sucks. I QT twice when I had the ich out break. First time 72, it came back. Then 80 and it came back. Got tired of it. Sold my corals to my LFS and used copper power in my main display. Worked like magic. Added a torch coral months later out of curiosity and it’s still alive and healthy. Copper didn’t stay in my sand and live rock as they say.
@@Ryles83
Did you use any copper removers?
Also, what was the dosage you applied to your tank(what volume)?
anupaminthetube I just used my normal brs carbon and turned my skimmer back on to remove the copper. Left the uv sterilizer off for about 2 weeks. I maintained the copper between 1.75-2.0... I used Hanna to monitor levels.
@@Ryles83 Thank you
You are lucky, I introduced ich to my 180 heavily populated tank with tangs. Lost 90% of my fish, Including a 13” Sohal tang. It was devastating to be netting out dead fish daily. I didn’t tear down tank, survivors are still alive after 2 years.. not going to have as many fish this time around and going to quarantine new arrivals in the future, including inverts
As far as hyposalinity if you have a FOWLR tank can you go hypo on the display for the recomended time of 30 days then slowly increase salinity and kill off ich or could it be dormant then come back. I do not/ can not use copper because of puffers.
If one drop off water can contaminate your display tank, how do you transfer the fish from your QT to your DT without transferring any water that is on the net or fish? Eradicating ich would be nice but how do you keep it eradicated if you are transferring fish if they have the water from the QT on them and the net?
Ryan said my name :)
What percentage of folks QT corals and inverts for 76 days? 1 in 1,000 or so perhaps?
Definitely few and far between
So many sites out there to buy fish,Can you please name all the sites that practice and do quarantine fish the right way .where will you buy your fish for your tank? Safe sites not to get these parasites . Wheres the pros sites you talk about about quarantining fish and sell them?
We order almost all of our fish through Marine Collectors. At this time, that's the only company that we've worked with that pre-quarantines fish.
I believe when the losses add up fast, management is no longer an option. Velvet sucks.
can you guys do the par test with the radion xr15 g5 on the 24×24 tank I want to see how it compares to the kessil 360x???? please please please
Dont trust any LFS that say you dont have to QT the fish you get from them.
Do you fell the same way 2 years later??
ive tried getting in front of the situation and being prepared months before I ever seen ich in my tank on my fish but unfortunately I got it two of my fish ended up dying and I feel it was due to the medication. what's the best product to use for ich. that's also safe for scaleless fish like my spotted dragon
How about polyp lab medic?
Seemed to work for me dosing twice a day for about a month. I would have to look back on my notes for the exact time frame. Didn't affect my hermit crabs, snails or anemone. Two clown fish, 2 stripe damsel and lemon damsel no longer show symptoms.
How's it going now?
@@danperez3328 Currently have Ick but seems to be under control. May have reintroduced it or never really got rid of it. Not sure. I stopped using lab medic for now. Focusing on improving water quality and keeping my fish healthy. I will try lab medic again later.
Are the other QT vids coming soon?
I have a doubt in my mind!
I'd love to start reefing while implementing a proper quarantine. But, how could I decently quarantine multiple fish when I need to add them together to avoid agression and territorialism?
either larger QT tank or multiple QT tanks if aggression is a major issue for the fish you're putting through QT.
What about Kick Ich?
Hi what about ozone it was not mentioned
Its called Crypto in saltwater.
Have you had any experience with oxydators? I think the increased O2 in the water will help fish deal with ich when it does crop up. Would be nice to see a series on oxydators as I think they are under rated in the hobby
I can't say that we've ever looking into their affect on ich
43 years in the hobby. First approximately 10 years my fish would get itch. Then I completely rethought how I keep my fish. I don't have the time etc to tell all however, things changed for the better and part of my rethought included the introducing and experimenting with Oxydators especially the A model. Since then I have bever had a serious outbreak of itch in any of the 9 tanks I have had since then that's around 33 years purchasing many fish from many different LFSs. I strongly believe a high ORP along with Hugh O2 is a major in helping to keep itch at bay. I have tangs, copperbands dwarf angels firefish Royal grammas all of which are susceptible to itch and other parasites. Well nit anymore in my tank. Oxydator's are the best kept secret in reefkeeping. Unfortunately there are no LFSs that sell them in the UK and only one stateside. Few people have heard of Oxydator's but they are slowly gaining popularity. There is an Oxydator user group on Facebook for those wanting to know more.
Seems like nobody has a real solution ! A lot of options!
At the end of the day, best practice is to treat your fish before adding them to the display. Copper based medications are probably the most popular option, but other methods like the tank transfer method work too. Copper is usually preferred as it will take care of not only ich, but also Velvet. Just keep in mind that not all fish tolerate copper well, so do your research before medicating.
Believe it or not I had my powder blue tang in qt for 2 months when I put em in my display tank after 3 weeks I notice his having this white spots always qt ich you can kill marine velvet is a different story I am running uv 50 watts what would you say the beat watts will really will help strange thing is I have different tangs purple and gem also yellow plus desjardini tang looks like his the only one not sure what to do
Also how fast should you run the uv water?
UV flow rate will depend on the manufacturer. Not sure what brand you're running, but my guess would be right around 300 gallons per hour.
Bulk Reef Supply I just want a say thank you for replying back, I am running coralife turbo-twist 55 watts plus I got 25 walls hookup with
I am so scared I don’t want a lose my fish second time what should I do I have 32gal biocube I cannot put all that fish in that tank to much oh god I have to buy a another tank goodness
In your professional opinion what should I do
Alexandra what ended up happening ?
Had a majestic angel fish for 20+ years added some nasserius snails and I believe velvet wiped out my entire tank
How do you quarantine and treat snails and inverts?
Check out this write up. Lots of great info about QT'ing corals and inverts.
www.reef2reef.com/threads/coral-invert-quarantine-time-frames.334584/
didn't you guys get the Achilles from Elliot ?
One Achillies that we have is from Elliot, correct.
Goon morning guys
How is ick introduce in a new reef tank? If the the fish are properly quanrantine you won’t have it?
That's correct. If you properly QT everything, you can have an ich free system. Keep in mind that this means QTing corals and inverts too.
I get not wanting to QT fish but we can buy fish from companies that QT for not much more than buying fish from other reputable sources.
Because it's your tank. I used to fall into this fallacy, asking LFS to dip the corals i buy from them, asking them if they quarantine their fish and for how long. You realize that you should not put trust into anyone but yourself as to what goes into your tank. I used to buy pre mixed salt and ro water from my lfs, but i stopped trusting after inconsistent salinity and seeing sediment in the bottom of my RO container after filling. When you deal with high volume, all it takes is one mistake (dipping hands in a ich filled tank and then a clean tank to break the quarantine cycle).
fish place your talking about has everything out of stock? did they close?
As far as we know, they're still around. Try reaching out to them with any special requests.
If I didn't want to set up a UV on my return, could I set up the UV to pump from my sump back into my sump? I don't think this would make a difference, just be another pump in my sump.
You can, but it won't be quite as effective. If plumbing from the sump to the display is absolutely not an option, consider plumbing it so that your feed pump is first and then the output is "downstream" of the feed pump so that you're not re-filtering the water through the UV. The reason why we don't typically recommend this method of installation is that by doing this, you're going to be bypassing some of your other filtration. So keep that in mind when weighing the pros and cons of doing it this way.
In minute 12:35 you mentioned some brands of good mixed food for dish. I didn't quite heat what brands you said. Can someone share the name if they are able to recognize it?
At that time stamp, Ryan mentions Rod's food, the Hikari brand, or DIY fish foods 🙂
Caught all my fish(7) and qt them for 10 weeks. They all were Ich free after the first few weeks but I wanted to have all the Ich die off in the DT. I put them back in after 10 weeks and hey he’d Ich within two weeks. So disappointed. I should have upped the temp a little and did 14 weeks. None have died from it but they get little breakouts here and there. Blue tang. Purple tang. Thompson tang. Two Darwin clowns and a 6 line. Lost my ruby dragon to my long spine urchin stinging his little face though.
Same thing here....I think I shouldve slow drip acclimate for a few days till they got used to the dt water
my 600gallon marine circulation tank got ich infection.
Can we use chlorine to kill marine ich. Does it kill all stages of ich.
I known it also kills all good bacteria too.
I cant wait for three months to keep the tank with out fish.
Adding chlorine is good or bad to kill ich. If mean how to add them in saltwater and how to remove chlorine from sw
Some reefers will use bleach to sterilize, but if you do that, you're talking about removing all the rock, sand, and water. You're completely starting over in that scenario.
I’m treating ick in my display tank I have invertebrates so I pick a reef safe medication I start 3 days ago my blue tang who has it is ok but no great yet I’m trying to be patient I want to see results like today 😔 but is hard, while I’m dealing with this a noticed that one of my fish is no eating a Cream angel like a week ago that is the time I brought her home and I haven’t see her eat + her eyes are cloudy my water is good I tried different food, I’m putting vitamins to the water but nothing. I got Metroplex with Focus as I result of my research said that could be parasites but how I can use it if she is no eating? I appreciate a soon help.
You will need to add Seachem garlicguard with the food to mask the taste of the medication
What reef same medication did you chose. And did it really work?
Where are the QT videos?? 😭😭 I don’t know what I’m doing lol
Still something we plan to do. Unfortunately the Covid situation made it more difficult to bring in outside experts to help us with that series. We want to make sure that if we do it, it's done right!
Please tell me what my African cichlid has. I have tried everything and he responds for a bit then stops eating again. I have salt, the best filters, uv. Please help. How do I attach a picture?
Unfortunately, you can't attach a photo to a RUclips comment. We're pretty focused on saltwater aquariums here at BRS, but if you send an email to our support team with a photo, we'll do our best to try to help!
BRS Customer Service
Email: Support@bulkreefsupply.com
Convinced me to buy a UV 😂
47:24 Velvet sucks!
What bad news: Ich not only attacks freshwater but also saltwater?? lol but Thanks.
Could you help me ? I'm french and I can't find what "Ich" stands for... exept "I" in german...
Ich is a parasite that affects fish, both fresh and saltwater. Unfortunately, it can also be deadly if not treated.
@@BRStv well, it sounds like oodinium to me. Is it ? Because I understood that it was a desease but I couldn't figure out what exactly you were talking about.
@@Paranormaladicted Cryptocaryon
Hello, Ich stands for Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. It is the freshwater “white spot” disease. A similar disease exists in saltwater called Cryptocaryon irritans. People refer to this as Ich, since it looks like freshwater Ich. They are not the same parasite, but they both present themselves as white dots. That’s why freshwater and saltwater hobbyists both call them Ich.
I hope that helps.
Why even be in the hobby if you're not willing to get rid of ich? Trying to live with ich is almost impossible and greatly limits the type of fish you can put in your tank. Also why put any fish in your tank that will slowly get eaten alive?
Because it it muhc more work to have to QT everything that goes in the tank, ive gottwn ich from coral frag plugs and even inverts. There is no way most people are gonna havr more tanks just for that ita just too much fod most people. I have done ich eradication and have succeeded but i can see how its just too much for most people.
Ick velvet and Algae the trio thats main reason people leave the hobby. At this point things are so bad at pet stores that you have at least more than 50% chance of getting ick from anything wet coming out of average petstore.
If you can't find a good fish store near you, check out some of the online vendors that offer quarantine services. More expensive to do it that way, but less chance for fish loss due to disease. Of course, QTing yourself is always an option too.
@@BRStv i do it myself but its a pain some fish don't deal with copper that well so gotta do homework and test and all that good stuff but gotta be done.
Can you get Pukani rock again now that the band been lifted ? Its nice & workable & looks better
While there are corals now coming from Indonesia again, the Pukani rock largely comes from Fiji, where it still can't be exported.
@@BRStv Thanks for the reply !
comparing the cost of one piece of equipment to everything in the tank and using that to justify it does not work. tanks get to be 6-7 grand pretty quick. irks me when he says that all the time like everyone has 10 grand to spend on an aquarium.
Well, he does make money by selling reefing equipment; this is basically an infomercial (which does make me wonder what this channel would be like if it was hosted by Phil Swift and Vince Offer)
I think the better comparison is the cost of livestock, though. If you have a $5000 tiger angelfish swimming around and there's a 20% chance of it dying of ich without a UV, and a 10% with a UV, the UV is worth roughly $500.
I had an ich break out in my main display only a few fish had visible ich and all seem to have recovered. Do I still have ich in my tank? If I don't see ich on the fish for say a 100 days does that mean its gone?
Even if your fish don't have visible symptoms, ich will forever be in the tank unless you remove all fish and let it go fallow for 76 or more days. From there, you'd need to only add fully quarantined and treated fish for the tank to truly be "ich free."
HOW DO I GET RID OF ICHHHHHH😭😭😭😭
Check this guide out. It's a fantastic resource to start learning about ich and how to get rid of it.
humble.fish/marine-ich/
oh man... I saw some high dollar fish at one of our pet stores looking like they have ich measles.... no thank you
Hi we got two new fish and after a week they developed spots, we was told just keep feeding the fish ,we lost those two and now lost a further 3 ,it’s so sad I have only recently got into this but my partner has had marine tanks for years. We don’t have a spare tank, so worried we will lose all our other fish.Does shop treatment work, so worried about buying more fish once it’s under control as it will alway be in tank ,have you got any advice ,I know some of them it’s to late as they are pale and not eating and moving slowly. It’s upsetting .please any advice will be great .
It sounds like you may be dealing with either ich or velvet. Unfortunately, there is no reef safe treatment, so the only way to treat the fish is with a hospital tank and proper medication. I would not suggest adding more fish to this tank until your current problem is under control.
Thank you for reply , we have them in hospital , so main tank just left with anemones and shrimp , and live rock . Unfortunately still losing fish and have 4 left now, wish we done something earlier but had no spare tank but will keep one now , your videos are great . Thanks again from the uk
Try tank transfer method
Covid hahahha
why not make videos that get straight to the point? You guys chit chat so much that your knowledge gets lost in translation.
The livestreams are typically longer, more casual conversations. If you're looking for videos about treating for ich that are more straight to the point, here is a good one for you: ruclips.net/video/ciEspcD_lrY/видео.html
What is ich? Lol
Hello, Ich stands for Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. It is the freshwater “white spot” disease. A similar disease exists in saltwater called Cryptocaryon irritans. People refer to this as Ich, since it looks like freshwater Ich. They are not the same parasite, but they both present themselves as white dots. That’s why freshwater and saltwater hobbyists both call them Ich.
I hope that helps.
Get the hippos out of the hobby, those fishes are ich magnets.
While they certainly can be, they can also be properly QT'd so that ich isn't an issue :)
Tangs are not ich magnets. They though do not do well with poor husbandry. I have had Tangs from the beginning. I own several!! I though didn’t just throw mine in the tank. Feed well, keep warmer water and quarantine!
These videos are to damn long
Our live videos are always about an hour long. Think of it as a reefing related talk show. If you want something shorter, check out some of the other content on our channel :)
@@BRStv I liked when the the vids were short , sweet & packed with info . I'm just saying . Good luck . So many are doing those live feeds & I guess I start to get ADT. If it's working for you , what can I say . But it's not what got you where you are . Again good luck & Thanks
Playback speed 1.5x then...
Can you guys do the par test with the radion xr15 g5 on the 24×24 tank I want to see how it compares to the kessil 360x???? please please please
That's the plan! :D
can you guys do the par test with the radion xr15 g5 on the 24×24 tank I want to see how it compares to the kessil 360x???? please please please