Matt Granger UPDATE - I just retested. Many asked about writing only to CFXB. Here is the full story. When testing on the day (with a rep on hand who checked we had everything matched) the Z8 was a lot slower than the Z9. But as it was pre-production I cut that from the video - luckily! Test - I used the prograde 650gb card, writing only raw to one card slot. In Lossless, HE* and HE - and the performance is pretty much the same now on Z8 and Z9. Tiny variations only. So if you only want to write to one card slot - you can get around 500 HE*, 80 lossless or unlimited HE RAWs to the CFXB slot. Cheers. Nikon Z Setup Guide - UPDATED FOR Z8: learn.mattgranger.com/courses/zsetup
We all expected the SD to be a bottleneck, but if using CFe card only works as fast as the Z9, I think most people including me are happy with the results. What if writing only small/medium jpeg to the SD card? ie RAW/HE to CFe and jpeg to SD which is an option in D8xx. Would it still hit the bottleneck? (SD's just for emergency backups..)
@@Joseph-iu6ip you right I really thought I will buy this camera with battery grip because I do a lot vertical shooting and if ad the extra grip and few batteries you almost hitting the z9 price point With worst buffer
Nikon Z Setup Guide - UPDATED FOR Z8: learn.mattgranger.com/courses/zsetup NEXTORAGE CF Express Cards: geni.us/next660 Thanks to our model Jay: instagram.com/jay._.sw
Really cool video! That dude is in incredible shape! On another subject: I have a couple of Z9's and have noticed if the camera(s) have not been used for a couple of weeks the focus doesn't work properly - images come out fuzzy. However, if you wait 5 minutes everything starts work properly. This includes the traditional focus as well as the eye focus systems. I have a friend that also has a couple of Z9's and he has experienced the exact same phenomena. In fact, we were both shooting together a few days ago and we were scratching our heads looking at each other - what's going on. We could not get anything in focus. All of a sudden (after about 5 minutes) everything clicks into place and behaves properly. I have experienced this a couple of times now and am wondering if the AI subsystem sort of forgets its training and takes a bit of time to get back into sync. Have you noticed this?
Great to see an honest reviewer with proper practical experience who actually TESTS the cameras in real world scenario. I would say that over 90% of RUclips reviewers are happy to simply regurgitate the specs doled out to them by the manufacturers and rarely, if ever, actually do any real tests themselves.
If they gave the Z8 the same dual XQD/CFE card slots as the Z9, then that would be one less reason to buy the Z8 (or on the flip side, one more), but it would further make them identical and likely make it harder for Nikon to push the Z9. I think this obviously was intentional, and Nikon knew about it, but saw it as a way to differentiate the two more. For those who don't use the SD card slot for backup while burst shooting, you can still buy a decent sized CFE card and get pretty much the same experience, it's just using the SD card is going to slow the system down. I think for someone who does a lot of burst shooting at high bursts for long periods of time, the Z9 is going to be a better option, but for those who tend to do shorter bursts (maybe 5-15 frames in a particular sequence at a time) it may be tolerable, given the $1500 savings over the Z9. In my current Z7 II setup, since XQD/CFE cards have proven to be reliable for me, I don't generally have an issue with just using the one slot for burst shooting (and keeping an SD card in the second slot as a backup, although I do make sure it's a fast UHS card -- so 250MB/s or faster) for those "just in case" moments if I fill my 128GB CFE card first (which I haven't done yet). And I'd even get another card as a backup so while it does mean this would make cameras with the second SD card slot slower, it may not necessarily be a deal breaker for some people who don't do a lot of high-rate burst shooting. I think with having a buffer around 1000 frames or so (from what i read) and having a fast XQD/CFE card that will satisfy most people in the semi-pro market at least. Personally, I would like to see a camera that has say 8 or 16GB of built-in memory for such purposes though, so you could use a CFE/XQD card and then use the internal memory as a backup while you burst shoot. Then later, perhaps, you can choose to dump the files to another memory card. So basically a hybrid that would let you have a backup while shooting (or spare storage in case your cards do fill up) built-into the camera. I would think even 8GB would be enough, since RAWs are around 100 MB we'll say at most. I mean 8GB wouldn't mean a lot of photos could be stored, but it would work in a pinch, and maybe even be used in conjunction with the buffer as a means to clear the buffer, so it wouild sort of like be having two buffers possible (a faster one, and a slightly slower one).
Thanks for the awesome test and informative findings. The Z8 is pretty much as fast as its slower card when shooting to duel and Z9 fast when shooting to single. No worries for me though, it’s plenty fast for me, order placed. Thanks again Matt. 👍🏽
So z8 is just as fast as z9 if writing to one Cfe-b, somehow misleading then. Matt might argue professionals use both cards as back up but it’s up to the users
Which is one of the things that's great about watching these videos. Is when there's enough information for me to start to get a fuel for my personal situation. Maybe x is not as big as y but maybe x is big enough for me.
Congrats Matt, you did a fantastic job. No one did that type of test because everyone assume that the Z9 and Z8 are the same minus the battery and form of the body. But clearly, there are differences
Hello Matt, I now I love you videos and reviews. I do not think that the Z8 is tme main problem, it is the SD cards just do not work at the required speeds. Not got to the end of this video yet but dose the Z8 allow you to just wright to the CF Express card only for me that would be interesting? On the over heating video you did Ricci Talks has now done a more indepeth video and in turns out that not all CF Express cards are made the same, just like with high FPS works much better with some the overheating issue works better on others. who would of thought. Keep well, keep safe and watch out fore nils in the flour.
Helpful and informative tests, certainly for action / sports shooters, thank you. For my use case and style of shooting (which includes moderate action and wildlife), the Z8 is way more than I'll ever need. I generally always write JPEG Fine* to the secondary card, and I'm also ok writing to only the CFE-B card for ultra-high, sustained action (very rare that I'd ever hold the shutter that long). Will watch this again to make sure I didn't miss anything. Thanks Matt
This is exactly what I was thinking. Even if you write backup RAW in the SD, for everything you mentioned and just using the camera "correctly", which is the same for most of us, the Z8 will be more than sufficient for $ 1,500 less, that is quite impressive in my opinion. I would also be just fine using only the CFE-B for wild life and write just RAW if I need optimized performance and a bit longer burst, and it should be just fine, most likely I would never need to keep mi finger on the shooter for 10 seconds, usually it is between 3 to 5 seconds, stop 1 to 2 seconds and shoot again if so. Now, if you are shooting Olympics and need to shoot long burst, need backup in RAW using long burst and just need the maximum performance, well, then I obviously would go strait for the Z9 since that is actually the right camera for the job. For everything else, I think this Z8 will be really great and is a big deal for the price, and I am very glad we have this option now. Not everyone really need a Z9, many do, but many don't, and for those people (including myself), this Z8 is the perfect answer.
@@Guairenito So basically need for speed shoot to the cf express card only! There is a huge difference in SD card pricing! Do you think its worth the difference to buy the fastest SD cards?
@@CareyP absolutely, no SD card can touch a good SF Expeess B. It is more than worthy for this camera. I am planning on getting the Z8 latter this year or early next year. If I get it, I will definitely get at least a couple of 128GB of the CFE-B.
Same here. I'm intending to get one primarily for wildlife (among other things that won't require the burst speeds, like landscape) so I think if I can settle on a fast SD card, and perhaps one of the compressed lossless formats, that might be a good balance, and save me $1500 over a Z9. Plus if you look at othe wildlife photographers, it's not all about the camera, AF system or burst speed. They help, but a lot of it is technique and people have gotten great shots with less. I mean in some respects it is nice to show up to a location (say ou're doing a landscape and wildlife) and know that the camera you have can do both and you don't need to carry two bodies for specific things (one for wildlife and one for landscape, which is what I am doing with my Z6 and Z7).
Matt, good observations on the buffer performance differences. The Z8's SD card will always be a limitation. I am curious if just CFE-B only on both the Z9 & Z8 still shows the limitations on the Z8? Assuming it does, I'm now curious if there is a current draw limitation on the Z8's battery system that may slow down the CFE-B write speeds, and if that is the case, is the Z8 also slower driving the focusing on the lenses (may only manifest if focusing from closest to infinity)? Lastly, the current Z8 firmware is arguably the latest, and there is likely a rev. due to the Z9 shortly to harmonize features - the obvious question is does that have any bearing on throughput speed of the Z8 vs Z9?
Great Matt! You have just made the Z9 folks feel better! Nice to see the real performance differences! You have been on the other poles in your Videos. I thought we would see you on the pole in the gym! I have to agree with you on SD cards. The price of CF-Express Type B cards are coming down. CF-Express cards are a big time saver for your workflow.
Wow, your non stop nikon z8 review series remind me "thatnikonguy" from a decade ago. 👍😂 I just realized that you have 2.4k+ video on your channel, damn time really flies
I'm not clear - did you test the Z8 vs Z9 shooting to the CFExpress slot only? If so, was the Z8 keeping up then (if they do have the same buffer size, then I'd expect the answer to be yes)?
It seemed he tested it briefly on 05:36 - but later he said because it was a pre-production Z8 and most people tend to write the files to both cards so he amended his test. I am curious if writing to cfxb only is better compared to writing to both cfxb and sd in terms of buffer and recovery time
Great video, Matt. I haven't seen anyone else making a comparison like this. I would love to have a Z7 with the Expeed 7 to improve intelligence in continuous autofocus. That would meet my needs even with the Z7's sensor and mechanical shutter. One thing I'm more and more sure of is that I don't need a 60 or 100 megapixel sensor.
Great review Matt. Waited for the Z8 and it’s more then i was hoping but i think my step to mirrorless will be Z9. I love my D700 but miss my F5 feel. Keep the reviews coming. 🎉
You have confirmed what I suspected when I saw the SD slot. The SD card slot is unhelpful for action. Why write to 2 cards anyway? I don’t with the Z9 either. On the Z 8 it’s only useful if you are not shooting bursts. Personally I think the whole idea of 2 slots is also an outdated hangover from the flaky performance of SD. I set slot 2 to overflow on the 9. It is also the slot I write video to.
I’ll admit I did the same (XQD until CF Express). When I started to do video, CF Express for video only and SD for photos. The Z8 will be way more than I need for photos, I doubt I’ll use the 20FPS setting, I’ll probably get an Angelbird SD card @V90 speed, in case I need it. I have their 1TB CF Express already and that card was they only card I used in the Z6II when I got it. For anyone that plans on messing with the 8.3K RAW video, that’s going to require some additional cards for long recordings.
Hey Matt, one question, how long was the session, when you took 2400 photos in a row? im more into wildlife and so i have looong downtimes just looking at the evf and not actually taking photos. best regards, Benjamin
Do you have the numbers of shots before hitting the buffer for the Z8 when using just the CFExpress at different compression settings? You broke off after the HE with just the CFExpress card in showing the buffer remaining dropping but no numbers for it. Just wondering the difference if you drop to CFExpress only in those situations where you need a longer burst.
@@mattgranger but do you have the numbers for the Z8 @20fps using just the CFExpress card only? I didn't see those only the numbers with the SD card in as well.
Thanks Matt. Some points of difference I have picked up on, is the weather sealing is better on the z9, the cards as you mentioned and the battery. Price and weight as cons. You are saying if I am correct, that the focus is the same for both of them?
The SD card is not a problem for me since I'm using it as a worst case backup with my A7iv. It saves only very light JPEGs so that it doesn't impact the main card's performance. But I'm concerned about the autofocus performance, I'm curious to know your exact keeper rate.
Great review Matt! Love watching “That Nikon Guy”. The smaller body cameras based on the pro version over the years have never performed at the same level. The battery grip provided more power that could get you closer (using the pro body battery) but, they were never at the same level. Seeing the size of the Z8’s grip attached, it makes sense to just go Z9 as the integrated grip has additional functionality that the add in version will not have. While being cumbersome, I’m curious to see how much, if any, performance improvements we could get using a PD battery pack to power the camera, for photos. For video, that’s going to be great to have for extended filming, in all codecs. Here’s something that might upset some photographers, you could shoot video at 4K60 and pull still frames from the videos, most likely .jpg, not going to be good for editing, but could be used. Or you could pull one after a color grade hmmm…, now that has some uses.
Thanks for the comprehensive tests. For sports, the worse part is that the camera takes time to clean the buffer, which could mean you lost the decisive moment. I am a little disappointed bt the HE*+ JPEG Fine performance. Yes the Z9 does not do as well, but one knows the camera is not paralyzed and will clean the buffer in two seconds. Do you have the time needed to clear the buffer ? talking about the table at 11:58? thanks !!
Matt - Thanks for the comparison. Just one comment. While it is not a perfect work-around, what can be done to avoid the slowdown caused by the SD card is to shoot only to the CFE card and then use the menu option after doing the shoot to copy the images from the CFE card to SD card. Obviously, if the CFE card was corrupted that doesn't do any good, but in other instances you can have the backup without using the SD card during shooting.
Thanks Matt. I watched this video (actually I watch all your videos), but maybe I missed something you tested and reported on. Did you test the case of shooting raw only to one CF Express card in either the Z9 or Z8 rather than using both available cards? Clearly the SD card is a limiting factor whether you are using it to back up raw images or for jpegs. If you are shooting the Olympics you would want a Z9 and you would backup your raw images to the second card. But for those of us who don't shoot the Olympics, and shoot raw to the CF Express card and only use the second card for say overflow, would the buffer speed and capacity be the same for these two cameras? The CF Express cards (and XQD cards) are extremely reliable and I haven't lost any shots due to memory card problems while shooting over 150,000 pictures on my Z7 II (with similar numbers on a Z7 and D850) while shooting raw to the CF card and using the SD card for overflow only. I have had problems with SD cards in the past, however. Anyway, thanks for the info.
So I have two Z9s as my core work horses for photography. I know have a Z6II for video, but would you recommend trading that in for the Z8? My dilemma is this: I'm not very pleased with the video capabilities of the Z6II and I AM very convinced of the Z9's... but, the problem with that camera on the gimbal (DJI RS3 Pro) is the weight. The Z8 has similar -yet capped at 1.5hours- video specs. Would you recommend trading up? I have the financial room to do that.
Matt can you please test adapted lens focus speed next? The Z9 was as good and depending on lens faster than F mount cameras but Z6/7ii are slower. There was a lot of hypothesis that it was because voltage. Wondering if Z8 is the same.
I'm sitting here with my D5 with dual XQD cards. I shoot RAW+RAW. Playing around with the FPS and watching the buffer. I'm realizing that the reason I don't hit the buffer. Is probably a combination from using compressed RAW and having the shutter release set to focus. And the smaller files. And the dual XQD cards. As I swing the camera focus point around the room. The camera stops shooting in burst while it reacquires focus on the new subject. And this appears to allow it to catch up. And if at any point I let up on the shutter and immediately push down again the buffer is totally clear. Which is of course awesome for me when I photograph running races. There's always this time when the street fills up with people and I just can't keep up.
Thank you so much for the amazing review and the effort you have put in... Also hope and pray you get better in no time... The Z9 has a bigger battery (more voltage) than the Z8... Does having a bigger battery in the Z9 help it move the motors in the lenses faster than the Z8... Specially for the longer teles like 600 f4... I ask because for canon this is true when comparing the R3 and R5... R3 moves focus from close to far that slightly quicker than the R5...
I believe that when the cameras are set to back up on the second card, which is the way I believe most of us configure our cameras, the Z9 will of course win because they’re both CF Xpress however, if you set the camera to overflow on the second card, I do not believe that you will see the same bottle neck. The Z8 writing to the SD card as a back up, slows everything down hence the buffer fills up. When the SD card is set to overflow, the buffer will dump exclusively to the CF express card until it is full. With that said, I am curious about one thing. What if it was writing to the SD card as a JPEG back up? Nonetheless, you did a great job, showing us what to expect the way the majority of us use our cameras.
Thank you Matt, as a wedding photographer it looks like I will have to be thinking “use the z9 for the confetti shot(s)” and it should be perfect for every other part of the day. I much appreciate your work. Take care, Simon
Thanks Matt for your honesty! I was afraid that the battery and SD card might hamper the camera from being a true mini Z9. It would be interesting to know if the smaller battery might make the big glass slightly slower at focussing as my previous Canon big glass definitely performs differently on my various Canon bodies! I shall wait for more of your results but this info is not positive for me as I wanted the Z8 to go with my Z9 but I now feel that I shall probably add a second Z9 instead! 👍🏾🙏🏾😎
Hi Matt, i’m sure somewhere you still have the best dslr D850 :) I watched your video about CF express card test also. I bought sandisk cf express b card and sandisk V2 sd card ( because still not exist information about memory cards for D850). Will you suggest cf b type and sd card for d850? or you had already test some cards and informed people but i missed this video.. thank you already
Great video which allows perspective buyers to choose the right product for there use case. It’s a shame manufacturers don’t provide this detail directly. Does the situation improve if you shoot RAW to the CFE card and JPEG to the SD card to at least give some form of redundancy/ back up. Is that even possible?
I love your reviews, because they are accurare, self reflected anf helpful! Three further questions: 1. How about battery life when you are a day out in the field shooting? I'm often doing wildlife in the mountains, therefore the Z9 is not really an option due to its weight and size, but the Z8 could probably work if the EVF and AF doesn't drain the battery too quickly. I want to come ehrlich an entire day with one battery under these conditions. 2. Could you try out the buffer with other CF cards as weil? I don't care whether these Str Nikon certified as long as they are working. 3. Could you try some long DSLR lenses adapted zu the Z cameras? For example redoing your Nikon 200-500 vs Sigma/Tamron 150-600 comparison? P.s.: You are awesome!
Had the pre order placed, swapped it for second Z9 new body with the capture one 2023. 1600 is definitely worth the powerhouse and not having to worry about the expectations with the z9 mini falling short.
Great video! Is there a difference by using the battery grip for the Z8? I remember that the D850 got a little performance boost when the grip was added.
Good info to help with buying choices, much appreciate you going the extra mile to give us the raw info we need to make our own decisions. as always, thanks.
Can you do a battery and card overheating test of 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 at 24fps & 30fps in ProRes and H.265? Want to get an idea of what I’m expecting for recording long-form video interviews.
This was great Matt. I couldn't find anyone to answer the Buffer question and you did. Thanks. If your writing to both card th SD card kills you but if your only writing to the CFE-B then your OK. Thanks again.
So how bad is dual recording of pictures to both cards? If I do weddings and events and don't shoot long takes with hundreds of pictures am I going to be OK?
The Z9 is running at a significantly higher voltage than the Z8. This will result in the Z9 camera processor functioning at optimum speeds under load plus the autofocus motor in the big telephoto primes will also shift at optimum speeds under load/long bursts. The Z8 is unable to use the Z9 high voltage battery in the new Z8 grip. The D850 when paired with the high voltage D5 battery matched the D5 in focus speed and responsiveness albeit at 9FPS.
If those cameras can shoot 5 seconds at the high frame rate and then clear the buffer after a brief pause That's all you really need. I shoot wildlife Motorsports never need more than that
I want to know how the battery holds up? It’s the same battery I use in my Z6 II, so I’m concerned. It sucks on my my Z6. Maybe the Expeed 7 is more efficient, but I assume you probably need to definitely have a second battery whenever you go out with it.
Hi Matt, Thank you for your insightful video as always. There has to be differences between the Z9 and Z8 because of the price difference. A lot of photogs are moaning that there is and SD card slot........ The UK Nikon rep stated that you cannon voice tag on the Z8 and it has a slightly smaller viewfinder magnification.
Matt, side question - the Skin Softening feature - does that affect RAW files or is it just JPEG / HEIF? Wondering if it works similar to Picture Control with RAW. Thanks 🙂
My though is first off anyone that needs to shoot the olympics can use any camera they want . Personally I never write to two cards so I’d just remove the SD card and there should be no reason it can’t write at the same speed assuming the cameras are have identical buffers . Did you test it with only a cf express card only to see how fast it is ? Thanks
Great testing thank you. This came out exactly as I said it would in another RUclips channel comment section. And got hammered by Z9 owners who said the then rumored Z8 would be just as fast as the Z9. I asked them to name one camera in the past that performed as good as the Flagship. Of course I got no response. The Z8 isn’t as fast as the Z9 and nobody should have expected it to be. And you know what who cares it is plenty fast enough at this cameras price range and level.
So I’m assuming using just a single CFE-B buffer is same? Low buffer with CFE+SD won’t impact my work thankfully as I expect it to be compromised and I work much slower/more controlled for gigs. But this was interesting and valuable analysis.
No at the beginning of the video he has just a CFexpress card, and even with that the buffer count on the Z9 remains steady, but the Z8 does not. Even so it's close, but who wants to shoot something critical without a backup? I really need to "clear buffer" times for the 11:58 tests. In particular the +jpge tests.
@@jaimeduncan6167 read Matt’s comment pinned. The beginning of video was with a pre-production unit that wasn’t performing like production unit. With just CFe it’s same buffer. Makes no sense why it wouldn’t be. The difference shows when SD is introduced into the mix. But you’re right paid jobs and critical work should definitely be backed up and Z8 is not par with Z9 because of SD. It shouldn’t be a major issue.
Given that the hardware is the same you have to wonder why nikon put a sd card in there instead of 2 express-b cards.. Shoot me but feels little to keep a gap between the z8 and z9. Yes i use sony BUT i think the z8 will be huge hit and its pricepoint is gamechanging.. But the removal of the second express-b slot feels a way to limit the z8.
questions: Nikon Z9 can on current firmware write video to both cards at the same time? If so witch types. / Nikon Z8 at announcement was mentioned RAW video on CF and same time some form of proxy video on SD card? Would have idea what proxy type video.
Use one card ,the good one for the Z8 . how many shots needed is up to you get Canon Sony and ZED9 if you need all that and keep switching cameras make sure to use 3d focus and FULL AUTO too.
so I typically shoot on my D850 where the image is going to both slots...so both cards have the same photos....whateveer the proper way to say that is....anyways do you suggest I shoot the z8 the same? or should I use the 2nd card slot as just an extra card if I run out?
A lot of people do this - it's called backup. You can do that with Z8, just with the limitation that if you are doing high FPS the SD will slow you down a lot.
Great work Matt! I hate to say this but that is no surprise to most people. I am glad you measured it, now we know the whole story. Thanks for doing this. Even with the faster SD card the Z8 will not be for me. I will buy a second Z9. Cheers.
Great very informative video Matt - as always. Thank you very much. I have Z7 and Z7 II for landscape and some not fast wildlife, and D500 - wildlife. I was hoping that Z8 would be better, but as you saying and some others- the Z8 for birds in flight and fast sports is not the best- using both memory card. It is a bit annoying - paying £4000 - I don’t want use one card. The best option for me would be Z9 without a grip less weight - but they don’t do that. I have already preordered the Z8, but I am not sure if I will buy it.
This is very confusing to me. If the buffer was the same and just as good between the cameras, then obviously writing to an SD simultaneously would be much slower. How can you draw any conclusion about the buffer unless you can inhibit completely the writing to all cards so that all you are testing is purely the buffer without and consideration to the ability to empty the buffer as the buffer contents are committed to the card(s)?
The Z8 was held back by Nikon because they knew it would cannibalize the Z9, so the Z9 had to come first. I see the sales for the Z9 dropping off dramatically now
I'm confused that your conclusion was the z8 can't keep up... The SD card was limiting the camera. The sd card can't keep up with cf express. But no test was needed for that...a lil bit disingenuous considering the test was more a sd card read speed test than a camera capability test. The z8 capability is beyond what a sd card can read. But the z8 also has the option for faster cfexpress cards. Just not dual. The trade off for the price drop
I don’t get why it has to write to the slower card directly from the buffer, rather than wait and write from the faster card after the buffer has been cleared to that card. Do that or add a menu option to copy one card to the other any time you like. Cake and eat it, mostly (doesn’t quite eliminate all of the risk). Or have I missed something somewhere
Probably there is not a bus between the cards, two that will imply that if the Cfexpress card fails, the SD will be also corrupted. I guess you are a better photographer than me but not a good engineer. I will you presented that designing on the uni, I am failing you 😂 probably the same way you will fail me at photography 🤣 Best regards.
Matt thank you for this video! You said the fastest SD card is a lot slower than a CFXB which is true! Now with that said do you think its a huge difference between the top speed SD card and lower Speed SD card to justify the price of the fastest SD card which are like 6 times more expensive?
Thanks Matt, really helpful video, i'm wait for the shipping date and hopefully i'll receive my Z8 quickly. I'm waiting to see your video test, right now i'm a little worried the battery won't last 60 minutes in 4k 50, even though the nikon test said it should. And when you're doing video and you're using a gimbal and need to continuously film something, the longer the battery time the better.
Agreed esp. with the massive pricedrop on CFE-A cards we now have 1Tera prices about the same for -A and -B. Price was a massive strike against -A for now.
Nice review. I believe that using one CFExpress and no SD card and the Z8 will have the same write performance as the Z9. For sustained video, overall efficiency is improved on the Z8 so you should find the Z9 overheating sooner doing video than the Z8 - will be interesting if you can test that. Reviews like this will keep the Z9 looking top longer and that's what Nikon need - to sell the max number of bodies and also keep everyone happy :)
I have always preferred that both slots are the same, although I do understand why manufacturers go for a mix to support upgrading customers existing cards. I have always thought that once you get to this level most would prefer to have matched cards for speed, and would not be too concerned with any additional cost. I just wish my camera had dual CF Express type B, rather than the type A's that it has for speed capacity and price :)
Yeah. But it’s a bit like customizing a car for racing, putting race tires on the front and saying, ahhhh let’s leave street tires on back…. It doesn’t make sense on something designed for speed. Something slow? Sure. Low res, sure.
But... this is expected, isn't it? I mean, SD is slower so, yes, if you also write to the SD card, it's going to significantly impact things. You say that it doesn't have all the same tech in it. I'm sorry, but I think you can't say that from this. It's like if you are being told that there's a 1000 litre/minute water pump in a building somewhere, and you connect a tiny hose and only get 100 litre/minute, and then say that there isn't such a pump in that building. I understand that, from an effective usage POV, you have a point. But from a tech POV, sorry, but I think you're a bit off the mark here. It is simply impossible for the Z8 to match the Z9 in this respect. They could have put more buffer memory in the Z8, allowing it to shoot longer bursts. Maybe as long as the Z9 can. But that would mean that the tech in the Z8 is better than that in the Z9. And it still wouldn't make the Z8 clear the buffer any faster. So I'd say that any expectation that the Z8 matches the Z9 when you write to an SD card, is unrealistic. I do think the video is useful from an exact performance expectation POV; it may help people decide what camera to get. And as I said, from a certain POV, I see your point. But as I said, for a Z8 writing to an SD card, to try to match a Z9 writing to a CFE card, it would actually need better tech.
While I'm not particularly disappointed with its performance, and I think it's 99.9% of the way to a perfect modern camera, it truly blows my mind why Nikon can't just commit to dual identical card slots in 2023 (besides the Z9). If you have $4k US for a camera, SURELY you can afford some CFE-B cards.
People want a smaller, less expensive body. Something has to give. I am happy to give up the second card slot and 1/3 of the battery life to save the size, weight and money. They could take out the second card slot altogether if it improved the savings in those areas, but we all know how that went over in the earlier versions.
How many people actually frequently hit the buffer on their current cameras? I'm on the 1st gen z6 - shoot birds and wildlife, trail running, dogs in action, etc., and cant remember hitting it once. If you're shooting the olympics then the z8 probably wasnt on your radar anyway since you probably already have the 9 with pro glass.
@@mattgranger Very true but my point was that the inability to shoot 100 shots in a row is not the reason many miss the shot. Maybe many passing the Z8 up because the capabilities are short of the Z9 may never actually reach the max capabilities of the Z8 in a real world setting. Maybe they will? Just asking who actually has that problem besides a very small demographic. Thanks for the videos you do!
Thanks for the test but where are the results writing 1 file to 1 card. - no backup This is the baseline -- well for me. Your cfe-b comparison is great - will you also do a comparison of the fastest high capacity UHS-II (V90) sd cards - delkin black, prograde cobalt and then the rest. Sabrent also seem great.
@@mattgranger -- thanks for the reply was it the Prograde Cobalt or the far slower Gold card? I only use Cobalt and Delkin Black and have faced no issues with buffer shooting Lossless Raw at 20fps. But then I tend to shoot bursts for less than 6 seconds. My longest burst was in the Maasai Mara of a young female leopard who climbed down a tree and ran away from hyena was 126 exposures -- no issues with buffer slowing or stopping me - she just left the area very quickly. Same with a leopard climbing a tree 96 image burst. These 20fps are great converted into movies AND I shoot at 20fps to ensure I get shots with the body position where I want it. BTW -- I cannot source the cards you are using in the UK.
Matt Granger
UPDATE - I just retested. Many asked about writing only to CFXB. Here is the full story. When testing on the day (with a rep on hand who checked we had everything matched) the Z8 was a lot slower than the Z9. But as it was pre-production I cut that from the video - luckily!
Test - I used the prograde 650gb card, writing only raw to one card slot. In Lossless, HE* and HE - and the performance is pretty much the same now on Z8 and Z9. Tiny variations only. So if you only want to write to one card slot - you can get around 500 HE*, 80 lossless or unlimited HE RAWs to the CFXB slot. Cheers.
Nikon Z Setup Guide - UPDATED FOR Z8: learn.mattgranger.com/courses/zsetup
I'd like to see a video of just the CFXB card in the Z8. Many will just use the SD card for emergency overflow!
We all expected the SD to be a bottleneck, but if using CFe card only works as fast as the Z9, I think most people including me are happy with the results. What if writing only small/medium jpeg to the SD card? ie RAW/HE to CFe and jpeg to SD which is an option in D8xx. Would it still hit the bottleneck? (SD's just for emergency backups..)
This UPDATE message should be on PINNED.
That's interesting, Thanks, Matt.
Thanks for doing that test, that reassuring
Not disappointed at all. The differences are the compromise for the size and price point many are looking for, mostly me.
Great! Glad it will work for you 👍🏼
Definitely disappointment for the price
@@jazinzlaty4823 it’s the least expensive full frame stacked sensor camera on the market, so I’ve no idea what you’re upset about.
@@Joseph-iu6ip you right
I really thought I will buy this camera with battery grip because I do a lot vertical shooting and if ad the extra grip and few batteries you almost hitting the z9 price point
With worst buffer
@@jazinzlaty4823 that’s the compromise that makes the Z8 exactly what I’m looking for. I couldn’t be more happy about it’s form factor.
Nikon Z Setup Guide - UPDATED FOR Z8: learn.mattgranger.com/courses/zsetup
NEXTORAGE CF Express Cards: geni.us/next660
Thanks to our model Jay: instagram.com/jay._.sw
Really cool video! That dude is in incredible shape!
On another subject: I have a couple of Z9's and have noticed if the camera(s) have not been used for a couple of weeks the focus doesn't work properly - images come out fuzzy. However, if you wait 5 minutes everything starts work properly. This includes the traditional focus as well as the eye focus systems. I have a friend that also has a couple of Z9's and he has experienced the exact same phenomena. In fact, we were both shooting together a few days ago and we were scratching our heads looking at each other - what's going on. We could not get anything in focus. All of a sudden (after about 5 minutes) everything clicks into place and behaves properly. I have experienced this a couple of times now and am wondering if the AI subsystem sort of forgets its training and takes a bit of time to get back into sync. Have you noticed this?
Great to see an honest reviewer with proper practical experience who actually TESTS the cameras in real world scenario.
I would say that over 90% of RUclips reviewers are happy to simply regurgitate the specs doled out to them by the manufacturers and rarely, if ever, actually do any real tests themselves.
you nailed it. Matt here clearly did a wonderful test
If they gave the Z8 the same dual XQD/CFE card slots as the Z9, then that would be one less reason to buy the Z8 (or on the flip side, one more), but it would further make them identical and likely make it harder for Nikon to push the Z9. I think this obviously was intentional, and Nikon knew about it, but saw it as a way to differentiate the two more. For those who don't use the SD card slot for backup while burst shooting, you can still buy a decent sized CFE card and get pretty much the same experience, it's just using the SD card is going to slow the system down. I think for someone who does a lot of burst shooting at high bursts for long periods of time, the Z9 is going to be a better option, but for those who tend to do shorter bursts (maybe 5-15 frames in a particular sequence at a time) it may be tolerable, given the $1500 savings over the Z9. In my current Z7 II setup, since XQD/CFE cards have proven to be reliable for me, I don't generally have an issue with just using the one slot for burst shooting (and keeping an SD card in the second slot as a backup, although I do make sure it's a fast UHS card -- so 250MB/s or faster) for those "just in case" moments if I fill my 128GB CFE card first (which I haven't done yet). And I'd even get another card as a backup so while it does mean this would make cameras with the second SD card slot slower, it may not necessarily be a deal breaker for some people who don't do a lot of high-rate burst shooting. I think with having a buffer around 1000 frames or so (from what i read) and having a fast XQD/CFE card that will satisfy most people in the semi-pro market at least.
Personally, I would like to see a camera that has say 8 or 16GB of built-in memory for such purposes though, so you could use a CFE/XQD card and then use the internal memory as a backup while you burst shoot. Then later, perhaps, you can choose to dump the files to another memory card. So basically a hybrid that would let you have a backup while shooting (or spare storage in case your cards do fill up) built-into the camera. I would think even 8GB would be enough, since RAWs are around 100 MB we'll say at most. I mean 8GB wouldn't mean a lot of photos could be stored, but it would work in a pinch, and maybe even be used in conjunction with the buffer as a means to clear the buffer, so it wouild sort of like be having two buffers possible (a faster one, and a slightly slower one).
Thanks for the awesome test and informative findings. The Z8 is pretty much as fast as its slower card when shooting to duel and Z9 fast when shooting to single. No worries for me though, it’s plenty fast for me, order placed. Thanks again Matt. 👍🏽
That was my interpretation also, but I think he cut the single card testing short. My order is in as well.
So z8 is just as fast as z9 if writing to one Cfe-b, somehow misleading then. Matt might argue professionals use both cards as back up but it’s up to the users
Which is one of the things that's great about watching these videos. Is when there's enough information for me to start to get a fuel for my personal situation. Maybe x is not as big as y but maybe x is big enough for me.
Congrats Matt, you did a fantastic job. No one did that type of test because everyone assume that the Z9 and Z8 are the same minus the battery and form of the body. But clearly, there are differences
Thanks a lot for this test Matt, can't wait for the video test ! 😬
Hello Matt, I now I love you videos and reviews. I do not think that the Z8 is tme main problem, it is the SD cards just do not work at the required speeds. Not got to the end of this video yet but dose the Z8 allow you to just wright to the CF Express card only for me that would be interesting? On the over heating video you did Ricci Talks has now done a more indepeth video and in turns out that not all CF Express cards are made the same, just like with high FPS works much better with some the overheating issue works better on others. who would of thought. Keep well, keep safe and watch out fore nils in the flour.
Thanks. Note I only used NIKON approved cards
Helpful and informative tests, certainly for action / sports shooters, thank you. For my use case and style of shooting (which includes moderate action and wildlife), the Z8 is way more than I'll ever need. I generally always write JPEG Fine* to the secondary card, and I'm also ok writing to only the CFE-B card for ultra-high, sustained action (very rare that I'd ever hold the shutter that long). Will watch this again to make sure I didn't miss anything. Thanks Matt
This is exactly what I was thinking. Even if you write backup RAW in the SD, for everything you mentioned and just using the camera "correctly", which is the same for most of us, the Z8 will be more than sufficient for $ 1,500 less, that is quite impressive in my opinion. I would also be just fine using only the CFE-B for wild life and write just RAW if I need optimized performance and a bit longer burst, and it should be just fine, most likely I would never need to keep mi finger on the shooter for 10 seconds, usually it is between 3 to 5 seconds, stop 1 to 2 seconds and shoot again if so. Now, if you are shooting Olympics and need to shoot long burst, need backup in RAW using long burst and just need the maximum performance, well, then I obviously would go strait for the Z9 since that is actually the right camera for the job. For everything else, I think this Z8 will be really great and is a big deal for the price, and I am very glad we have this option now. Not everyone really need a Z9, many do, but many don't, and for those people (including myself), this Z8 is the perfect answer.
@@Guairenito Perfectly stated 👍🏻
@@Guairenito So basically need for speed shoot to the cf express card only! There is a huge difference in SD card pricing! Do you think its worth the difference to buy the fastest SD cards?
@@CareyP absolutely, no SD card can touch a good SF Expeess B. It is more than worthy for this camera. I am planning on getting the Z8 latter this year or early next year. If I get it, I will definitely get at least a couple of 128GB of the CFE-B.
Same here. I'm intending to get one primarily for wildlife (among other things that won't require the burst speeds, like landscape) so I think if I can settle on a fast SD card, and perhaps one of the compressed lossless formats, that might be a good balance, and save me $1500 over a Z9. Plus if you look at othe wildlife photographers, it's not all about the camera, AF system or burst speed. They help, but a lot of it is technique and people have gotten great shots with less. I mean in some respects it is nice to show up to a location (say ou're doing a landscape and wildlife) and know that the camera you have can do both and you don't need to carry two bodies for specific things (one for wildlife and one for landscape, which is what I am doing with my Z6 and Z7).
Matt, good observations on the buffer performance differences. The Z8's SD card will always be a limitation. I am curious if just CFE-B only on both the Z9 & Z8 still shows the limitations on the Z8? Assuming it does, I'm now curious if there is a current draw limitation on the Z8's battery system that may slow down the CFE-B write speeds, and if that is the case, is the Z8 also slower driving the focusing on the lenses (may only manifest if focusing from closest to infinity)? Lastly, the current Z8 firmware is arguably the latest, and there is likely a rev. due to the Z9 shortly to harmonize features - the obvious question is does that have any bearing on throughput speed of the Z8 vs Z9?
Great Matt! You have just made the Z9 folks feel better! Nice to see the real performance differences! You have been on the other poles in your Videos. I thought we would see you on the pole in the gym! I have to agree with you on SD cards. The price of CF-Express Type B cards are coming down. CF-Express cards are a big time saver for your workflow.
Great video! Do you think the Z8 tops the D850?
In what way?
@@mattgranger On the Nikon website, the Z8 is being called "the True successor to the D850." Do you agree?
Covered in my Z8 vs D850 video :)
Wow, your non stop nikon z8 review series remind me "thatnikonguy" from a decade ago. 👍😂
I just realized that you have 2.4k+ video on your channel, damn time really flies
The hustle never ends :)
Thanks for your support Wilson
I'm not clear - did you test the Z8 vs Z9 shooting to the CFExpress slot only? If so, was the Z8 keeping up then (if they do have the same buffer size, then I'd expect the answer to be yes)?
It seemed he tested it briefly on 05:36 - but later he said because it was a pre-production Z8 and most people tend to write the files to both cards so he amended his test. I am curious if writing to cfxb only is better compared to writing to both cfxb and sd in terms of buffer and recovery time
@@mattgranger 😯
i am removing this to post an update for everyone
Great video, Matt. I haven't seen anyone else making a comparison like this. I would love to have a Z7 with the Expeed 7 to improve intelligence in continuous autofocus. That would meet my needs even with the Z7's sensor and mechanical shutter. One thing I'm more and more sure of is that I don't need a 60 or 100 megapixel sensor.
Agreed. Z7ii would work for me if they could get rid of the viewfinder blackout/lag. But that doesn't seem to be in the cards. My Z8 is on order.
Made the difference for me, changed my order from Z8 to Z9 thanks.
Great review Matt. Waited for the Z8 and it’s more then i was hoping but i think my step to mirrorless will be Z9. I love my D700 but miss my F5 feel. Keep the reviews coming. 🎉
You have confirmed what I suspected when I saw the SD slot. The SD card slot is unhelpful for action. Why write to 2 cards anyway? I don’t with the Z9 either. On the Z 8 it’s only useful if you are not shooting bursts. Personally I think the whole idea of 2 slots is also an outdated hangover from the flaky performance of SD. I set slot 2 to overflow on the 9. It is also the slot I write video to.
Why write to 2 cards anyway? For backup. Eventually you will have a card failure.
I’ve been shooting with 1 CFExpress Type B card these last three years with my Z6 and Z6ii’s so I am more than fine with this.
Great!
I’ll admit I did the same (XQD until CF Express). When I started to do video, CF Express for video only and SD for photos. The Z8 will be way more than I need for photos, I doubt I’ll use the 20FPS setting, I’ll probably get an Angelbird SD card @V90 speed, in case I need it. I have their 1TB CF Express already and that card was they only card I used in the Z6II when I got it. For anyone that plans on messing with the 8.3K RAW video, that’s going to require some additional cards for long recordings.
Hey Matt, one question, how long was the session, when you took 2400 photos in a row?
im more into wildlife and so i have looong downtimes just looking at the evf and not actually taking photos.
best regards,
Benjamin
Do you have the numbers of shots before hitting the buffer for the Z8 when using just the CFExpress at different compression settings? You broke off after the HE with just the CFExpress card in showing the buffer remaining dropping but no numbers for it. Just wondering the difference if you drop to CFExpress only in those situations where you need a longer burst.
I didn’t include that in the video as it was on a pre production camera and using hdmi out - the numbers are reliable.
@@mattgranger but do you have the numbers for the Z8 @20fps using just the CFExpress card only? I didn't see those only the numbers with the SD card in as well.
Thanks Matt. Some points of difference I have picked up on, is the weather sealing is better on the z9, the cards as you mentioned and the battery. Price and weight as cons. You are saying if I am correct, that the focus is the same for both of them?
great job - I appreciate the testing - quick question, does the second USB slot of the z8 allow file saving to an external device?
The SD card is not a problem for me since I'm using it as a worst case backup with my A7iv. It saves only very light JPEGs so that it doesn't impact the main card's performance.
But I'm concerned about the autofocus performance, I'm curious to know your exact keeper rate.
Thank you for your tests. About to get a Z9 next week. thank you
Great review Matt! Love watching “That Nikon Guy”. The smaller body cameras based on the pro version over the years have never performed at the same level. The battery grip provided more power that could get you closer (using the pro body battery) but, they were never at the same level. Seeing the size of the Z8’s grip attached, it makes sense to just go Z9 as the integrated grip has additional functionality that the add in version will not have. While being cumbersome, I’m curious to see how much, if any, performance improvements we could get using a PD battery pack to power the camera, for photos. For video, that’s going to be great to have for extended filming, in all codecs.
Here’s something that might upset some photographers, you could shoot video at 4K60 and pull still frames from the videos, most likely .jpg, not going to be good for editing, but could be used. Or you could pull one after a color grade hmmm…, now that has some uses.
Thanks for the comprehensive tests. For sports, the worse part is that the camera takes time to clean the buffer, which could mean you lost the decisive moment. I am a little disappointed bt the HE*+ JPEG Fine performance. Yes the Z9 does not do as well, but one knows the camera is not paralyzed and will clean the buffer in two seconds. Do you have the time needed to clear the buffer ? talking about the table at 11:58? thanks !!
Matt - Thanks for the comparison. Just one comment. While it is not a perfect work-around, what can be done to avoid the slowdown caused by the SD card is to shoot only to the CFE card and then use the menu option after doing the shoot to copy the images from the CFE card to SD card. Obviously, if the CFE card was corrupted that doesn't do any good, but in other instances you can have the backup without using the SD card during shooting.
Shouldnt be necessary to have to develop complicated work around solutions like that, IMO.
Thanks Matt. I watched this video (actually I watch all your videos), but maybe I missed something you tested and reported on. Did you test the case of shooting raw only to one CF Express card in either the Z9 or Z8 rather than using both available cards? Clearly the SD card is a limiting factor whether you are using it to back up raw images or for jpegs. If you are shooting the Olympics you would want a Z9 and you would backup your raw images to the second card. But for those of us who don't shoot the Olympics, and shoot raw to the CF Express card and only use the second card for say overflow, would the buffer speed and capacity be the same for these two cameras? The CF Express cards (and XQD cards) are extremely reliable and I haven't lost any shots due to memory card problems while shooting over 150,000 pictures on my Z7 II (with similar numbers on a Z7 and D850) while shooting raw to the CF card and using the SD card for overflow only. I have had problems with SD cards in the past, however. Anyway, thanks for the info.
Please see the pinned comment - I updated this
Are we saying here that even with just one CFexpress card in the Z8 (keeping the sd card out) it can’t keep up with the z9? Thx
@@mattgranger Thank you Matt! Your effort is really appreciated!
i am removing this to post an update for everyone
OK, but you missed one big test !! How many shots with the Z8 if you ONLY use a CFexpressB. ??
That’s 20 tests when you factor in all the format combos. I’ll share the raw only results
just tested - will post a comment for everyone
So I have two Z9s as my core work horses for photography. I know have a Z6II for video, but would you recommend trading that in for the Z8? My dilemma is this: I'm not very pleased with the video capabilities of the Z6II and I AM very convinced of the Z9's... but, the problem with that camera on the gimbal (DJI RS3 Pro) is the weight. The Z8 has similar -yet capped at 1.5hours- video specs. Would you recommend trading up? I have the financial room to do that.
See my latest upload on video overheating.
@@mattgranger I'll check that out
Matt can you please test adapted lens focus speed next? The Z9 was as good and depending on lens faster than F mount cameras but Z6/7ii are slower. There was a lot of hypothesis that it was because voltage. Wondering if Z8 is the same.
@@cy9nvs no the professional cameras D6/D5/Z9 output more voltage. EL18x batteries have higher voltage (10.8V) compared to the EN-EL15x (7.0V).
That was a lot of informative fun!
thank you always the best reviews
I'm sitting here with my D5 with dual XQD cards. I shoot RAW+RAW. Playing around with the FPS and watching the buffer. I'm realizing that the reason I don't hit the buffer. Is probably a combination from using compressed RAW and having the shutter release set to focus. And the smaller files. And the dual XQD cards. As I swing the camera focus point around the room. The camera stops shooting in burst while it reacquires focus on the new subject. And this appears to allow it to catch up. And if at any point I let up on the shutter and immediately push down again the buffer is totally clear. Which is of course awesome for me when I photograph running races. There's always this time when the street fills up with people and I just can't keep up.
Thank you so much for the amazing review and the effort you have put in... Also hope and pray you get better in no time...
The Z9 has a bigger battery (more voltage) than the Z8... Does having a bigger battery in the Z9 help it move the motors in the lenses faster than the Z8... Specially for the longer teles like 600 f4...
I ask because for canon this is true when comparing the R3 and R5... R3 moves focus from close to far that slightly quicker than the R5...
I believe that when the cameras are set to back up on the second card, which is the way I believe most of us configure our cameras, the Z9 will of course win because they’re both CF Xpress however, if you set the camera to overflow on the second card, I do not believe that you will see the same bottle neck. The Z8 writing to the SD card as a back up, slows everything down hence the buffer fills up. When the SD card is set to overflow, the buffer will dump exclusively to the CF express card until it is full. With that said, I am curious about one thing. What if it was writing to the SD card as a JPEG back up? Nonetheless, you did a great job, showing us what to expect the way the majority of us use our cameras.
Thank you Matt, as a wedding photographer it looks like I will have to be thinking “use the z9 for the confetti shot(s)” and it should be perfect for every other part of the day. I much appreciate your work. Take care, Simon
Thanks Matt for your honesty! I was afraid that the battery and SD card might hamper the camera from being a true mini Z9. It would be interesting to know if the smaller battery might make the big glass slightly slower at focussing as my previous Canon big glass definitely performs differently on my various Canon bodies! I shall wait for more of your results but this info is not positive for me as I wanted the Z8 to go with my Z9 but I now feel that I shall probably add a second Z9 instead! 👍🏾🙏🏾😎
Hi Matt, i’m sure somewhere you still have the best dslr D850 :) I watched your video about CF express card test also. I bought sandisk cf express b card and sandisk V2 sd card ( because still not exist information about memory cards for D850). Will you suggest cf b type and sd card for d850? or you had already test some cards and informed people but i missed this video.. thank you already
Nikon published approved cards for the D850 years ago - www.nikonimgsupport.com/na/NSG_article?articleNo=000043078&lang=en_SG
Great video which allows perspective buyers to choose the right product for there use case. It’s a shame manufacturers don’t provide this detail directly. Does the situation improve if you shoot RAW to the CFE card and JPEG to the SD card to at least give some form of redundancy/ back up. Is that even possible?
The tests in video include jpeg to sd
@@mattgranger sorry I wasn’t clear that your test was RAW to CFE and JPEG to SD.
thank you for your honesty
Thanks Matt for the useful info as always! What happens if one removes the SD on the z8?
see my comment above mate.
@@mattgranger Thanks!
I love your reviews, because they are accurare, self reflected anf helpful! Three further questions:
1. How about battery life when you are a day out in the field shooting? I'm often doing wildlife in the mountains, therefore the Z9 is not really an option due to its weight and size, but the Z8 could probably work if the EVF and AF doesn't drain the battery too quickly. I want to come ehrlich an entire day with one battery under these conditions.
2. Could you try out the buffer with other CF cards as weil? I don't care whether these Str Nikon certified as long as they are working.
3. Could you try some long DSLR lenses adapted zu the Z cameras? For example redoing your Nikon 200-500 vs Sigma/Tamron 150-600 comparison?
P.s.: You are awesome!
1. yes I will have that info in time.
2. maybe - its a LOT of work and I already did it for Z9 - check out that data
3. Already filmed. Coming soon
Excellent test, Matt. I ordered my 2nd Z9 as used. For me, nothing goes over the Z9 simply for speed reasons and battery power.
Had the pre order placed, swapped it for second Z9 new body with the capture one 2023. 1600 is definitely worth the powerhouse and not having to worry about the expectations with the z9 mini falling short.
Great video! Is there a difference by using the battery grip for the Z8? I remember that the D850 got a little performance boost when the grip was added.
Don’t know. Looking at the size of it, I don’t know why you’d get that combo vs a z9
@@mattgranger the only real bonus would be a little more flexibilty when it come to smaller gimbles (smaller as the DJI RS3 Pro)
Good info to help with buying choices, much appreciate you going the extra mile to give us the raw info we need to make our own decisions. as always, thanks.
My pleasure
Can you do a battery and card overheating test of 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 at 24fps & 30fps in ProRes and H.265? Want to get an idea of what I’m expecting for recording long-form video interviews.
Coming soon
This was great Matt. I couldn't find anyone to answer the Buffer question and you did. Thanks. If your writing to both card th SD card kills you but if your only writing to the CFE-B then your OK. Thanks again.
@@mattgranger does the buffer recover quickly if using cfxb on Z8 only?
It's nice to see that you're taking care about your health. I see less bally and more muscle arms. Congrats!
So how bad is dual recording of pictures to both cards? If I do weddings and events and don't shoot long takes with hundreds of pictures am I going to be OK?
The Z9 is running at a significantly higher voltage than the Z8.
This will result in the Z9 camera processor functioning at optimum speeds under load plus the autofocus motor in the big telephoto primes will also shift at optimum speeds under load/long bursts.
The Z8 is unable to use the Z9 high voltage battery in the new Z8 grip.
The D850 when paired with the high voltage D5 battery matched the D5 in focus speed and responsiveness albeit at 9FPS.
Great video. Thank you.
If those cameras can shoot 5 seconds at the high frame rate and then clear the buffer after a brief pause That's all you really need. I shoot wildlife Motorsports never need more than that
Hi, What is the buffer for lossless compression and high efficiency* when only writing to the one CF B card ?
I want to know how the battery holds up? It’s the same battery I use in my Z6 II, so I’m concerned. It sucks on my my Z6. Maybe the Expeed 7 is more efficient, but I assume you probably need to definitely have a second battery whenever you go out with it.
There’s a bookmarked chapter on battery…
Seems like the Z8 hits a sweet spot for people like me who isn’t a professional photographer but I do use cameras professionally in my business
Hi Matt, Thank you for your insightful video as always. There has to be differences between the Z9 and Z8 because of the price difference. A lot of photogs are moaning that there is and SD card slot........ The UK Nikon rep stated that you cannon voice tag on the Z8 and it has a slightly smaller viewfinder magnification.
Matt, side question - the Skin Softening feature - does that affect RAW files or is it just JPEG / HEIF? Wondering if it works similar to Picture Control with RAW. Thanks 🙂
doesnt affect RAW
My though is first off anyone that needs to shoot the olympics can use any camera they want . Personally I never write to two cards so I’d just remove the SD card and there should be no reason it can’t write at the same speed assuming the cameras are have identical buffers . Did you test it with only a cf express card only to see how fast it is ? Thanks
Thanks for an in depth comparison
Matt so if you re only using a CFexpress card in the Z8 shooting 20fps Hi Efficiency * RAW the Z8 will buffer we’re as the Z9 won’t ?
Please see the pinned comment - on final production camera - the performance to CFXB card only is same as Z9
Great video, many thanks
Great testing thank you. This came out exactly as I said it would in another RUclips channel comment section. And got hammered by Z9 owners who said the then rumored Z8 would be just as fast as the Z9. I asked them to name one camera in the past that performed as good as the Flagship. Of course I got no response. The Z8 isn’t as fast as the Z9 and nobody should have expected it to be. And you know what who cares it is plenty fast enough at this cameras price range and level.
Does the Z8 match the Z9 with just cfexpress? No SD card even inserted. Edit: I see that it is from your update.
So I’m assuming using just a single CFE-B buffer is same? Low buffer with CFE+SD won’t impact my work thankfully as I expect it to be compromised and I work much slower/more controlled for gigs. But this was interesting and valuable analysis.
No at the beginning of the video he has just a CFexpress card, and even with that the buffer count on the Z9 remains steady, but the Z8 does not. Even so it's close, but who wants to shoot something critical without a backup? I really need to "clear buffer" times for the 11:58 tests. In particular the +jpge tests.
@@jaimeduncan6167 read Matt’s comment pinned. The beginning of video was with a pre-production unit that wasn’t performing like production unit. With just CFe it’s same buffer. Makes no sense why it wouldn’t be. The difference shows when SD is introduced into the mix. But you’re right paid jobs and critical work should definitely be backed up and Z8 is not par with Z9 because of SD. It shouldn’t be a major issue.
Given that the hardware is the same you have to wonder why nikon put a sd card in there instead of 2 express-b cards.. Shoot me but feels little to keep a gap between the z8 and z9. Yes i use sony BUT i think the z8 will be huge hit and its pricepoint is gamechanging.. But the removal of the second express-b slot feels a way to limit the z8.
questions: Nikon Z9 can on current firmware write video to both cards at the same time? If so witch types. / Nikon Z8 at announcement was mentioned RAW video on CF and same time some form of proxy video on SD card? Would have idea what proxy type video.
No it cannot
Use one card ,the good one for the Z8 . how many shots needed is up to you get Canon Sony and ZED9 if you need all that and keep switching cameras make sure to use 3d focus and FULL AUTO too.
and the perfomance of the Z8 using just the CFxpressB ? is the same as the Z9?
You wont know until you take it out into a real life situation. You did just that. Great video Matt!
so I typically shoot on my D850 where the image is going to both slots...so both cards have the same photos....whateveer the proper way to say that is....anyways do you suggest I shoot the z8 the same? or should I use the 2nd card slot as just an extra card if I run out?
A lot of people do this - it's called backup. You can do that with Z8, just with the limitation that if you are doing high FPS the SD will slow you down a lot.
@@mattgranger right…totally!
Great work Matt! I hate to say this but that is no surprise to most people. I am glad you measured it, now we know the whole story. Thanks for doing this. Even with the faster SD card the Z8 will not be for me. I will buy a second Z9. Cheers.
z8 at 4k60fps it has crop??
Great very informative video Matt - as always. Thank you very much. I have Z7 and Z7 II for landscape and some not fast wildlife, and D500 - wildlife. I was hoping that Z8 would be better, but as you saying and some others- the Z8 for birds in flight and fast sports is not the best- using both memory card. It is a bit annoying - paying £4000 - I don’t want use one card. The best option for me would be Z9 without a grip less weight - but they don’t do that.
I have already preordered the Z8, but I am not sure if I will buy it.
This is very confusing to me. If the buffer was the same and just as good between the cameras, then obviously writing to an SD simultaneously would be much slower. How can you draw any conclusion about the buffer unless you can inhibit completely the writing to all cards so that all you are testing is purely the buffer without and consideration to the ability to empty the buffer as the buffer contents are committed to the card(s)?
The Z8 was held back by Nikon because they knew it would cannibalize the Z9, so the Z9 had to come first. I see the sales for the Z9 dropping off dramatically now
I actually do not need a backup on a second card. How do z8 perform when using only one cfe card. Is it comparable to z9?
Matt posted an update. Same as Z9
I'm confused that your conclusion was the z8 can't keep up... The SD card was limiting the camera. The sd card can't keep up with cf express. But no test was needed for that...a lil bit disingenuous considering the test was more a sd card read speed test than a camera capability test. The z8 capability is beyond what a sd card can read. But the z8 also has the option for faster cfexpress cards. Just not dual. The trade off for the price drop
I gave complete info - I don't think there's anything disingenuous about it. SD was a poor choice in this camera.
I don’t get why it has to write to the slower card directly from the buffer, rather than wait and write from the faster card after the buffer has been cleared to that card. Do that or add a menu option to copy one card to the other any time you like. Cake and eat it, mostly (doesn’t quite eliminate all of the risk). Or have I missed something somewhere
Probably there is not a bus between the cards, two that will imply that if the Cfexpress card fails, the SD will be also corrupted. I guess you are a better photographer than me but not a good engineer. I will you presented that designing on the uni, I am failing you 😂 probably the same way you will fail me at photography 🤣 Best regards.
Writing buffer to card, card to card, would take longer, and put more risk in the process.
Matt thank you for this video! You said the fastest SD card is a lot slower than a CFXB which is true! Now with that said do you think its a huge difference between the top speed SD card and lower Speed SD card to justify the price of the fastest SD card which are like 6 times more expensive?
They can vary is speed x10
@@mattgranger thanks for the reply! So if I'm understanding you correctly the better SD cards do make significant difference to justify the price?
MAD respect for that guy's gymnastic skills and physique!! Holyyyy!
Right!
I would be interested in 20,30,60,120 performance to a fast card.
Thanks Matt, really helpful video, i'm wait for the shipping date and hopefully i'll receive my Z8 quickly. I'm waiting to see your video test, right now i'm a little worried the battery won't last 60 minutes in 4k 50, even though the nikon test said it should. And when you're doing video and you're using a gimbal and need to continuously film something, the longer the battery time the better.
I’m quite sure it will do the hour. My video tests coming soon.
I just saw the price of the Z8 in Taiwan, and I have decided to buy it. Still, I insist that dual CFE-A is much better than CFE-B + SD.
Agreed esp. with the massive pricedrop on CFE-A cards we now have 1Tera prices about the same for -A and -B. Price was a massive strike against -A for now.
What if you shot to only the CF express card? Would that be as quick as the Z9?
see pinned comment
Nice review. I believe that using one CFExpress and no SD card and the Z8 will have the same write performance as the Z9. For sustained video, overall efficiency is improved on the Z8 so you should find the Z9 overheating sooner doing video than the Z8 - will be interesting if you can test that. Reviews like this will keep the Z9 looking top longer and that's what Nikon need - to sell the max number of bodies and also keep everyone happy :)
Right about single card still, wrong about video overheating.
I have always preferred that both slots are the same, although I do understand why manufacturers go for a mix to support upgrading customers existing cards. I have always thought that once you get to this level most would prefer to have matched cards for speed, and would not be too concerned with any additional cost.
I just wish my camera had dual CF Express type B, rather than the type A's that it has for speed capacity and price :)
Yeah. But it’s a bit like customizing a car for racing, putting race tires on the front and saying, ahhhh let’s leave street tires on back…. It doesn’t make sense on something designed for speed. Something slow? Sure. Low res, sure.
Wawoo, Thanks for the tests. actually it sounds very reasonable :)
Great stuff as always ! Love your reviews ! Love the z8 as well :-)
But... this is expected, isn't it? I mean, SD is slower so, yes, if you also write to the SD card, it's going to significantly impact things. You say that it doesn't have all the same tech in it. I'm sorry, but I think you can't say that from this. It's like if you are being told that there's a 1000 litre/minute water pump in a building somewhere, and you connect a tiny hose and only get 100 litre/minute, and then say that there isn't such a pump in that building.
I understand that, from an effective usage POV, you have a point. But from a tech POV, sorry, but I think you're a bit off the mark here. It is simply impossible for the Z8 to match the Z9 in this respect. They could have put more buffer memory in the Z8, allowing it to shoot longer bursts. Maybe as long as the Z9 can. But that would mean that the tech in the Z8 is better than that in the Z9. And it still wouldn't make the Z8 clear the buffer any faster. So I'd say that any expectation that the Z8 matches the Z9 when you write to an SD card, is unrealistic.
I do think the video is useful from an exact performance expectation POV; it may help people decide what camera to get. And as I said, from a certain POV, I see your point. But as I said, for a Z8 writing to an SD card, to try to match a Z9 writing to a CFE card, it would actually need better tech.
While I'm not particularly disappointed with its performance, and I think it's 99.9% of the way to a perfect modern camera, it truly blows my mind why Nikon can't just commit to dual identical card slots in 2023 (besides the Z9). If you have $4k US for a camera, SURELY you can afford some CFE-B cards.
People want a smaller, less expensive body. Something has to give. I am happy to give up the second card slot and 1/3 of the battery life to save the size, weight and money. They could take out the second card slot altogether if it improved the savings in those areas, but we all know how that went over in the earlier versions.
How many people actually frequently hit the buffer on their current cameras? I'm on the 1st gen z6 - shoot birds and wildlife, trail running, dogs in action, etc., and cant remember hitting it once. If you're shooting the olympics then the z8 probably wasnt on your radar anyway since you probably already have the 9 with pro glass.
Z6 is slow and low res. Buffer isn’t likely to be an issue.
@@mattgranger Very true but my point was that the inability to shoot 100 shots in a row is not the reason many miss the shot. Maybe many passing the Z8 up because the capabilities are short of the Z9 may never actually reach the max capabilities of the Z8 in a real world setting. Maybe they will? Just asking who actually has that problem besides a very small demographic. Thanks for the videos you do!
Thanks for the test but where are the results writing 1 file to 1 card. - no backup This is the baseline -- well for me.
Your cfe-b comparison is great - will you also do a comparison of the fastest high capacity UHS-II (V90) sd cards - delkin black, prograde cobalt and then the rest. Sabrent also seem great.
See pinned comment.
@@mattgranger -- thanks for the reply was it the Prograde Cobalt or the far slower Gold card? I only use Cobalt and Delkin Black and have faced no issues with buffer shooting Lossless Raw at 20fps. But then I tend to shoot bursts for less than 6 seconds. My longest burst was in the Maasai Mara of a young female leopard who climbed down a tree and ran away from hyena was 126 exposures -- no issues with buffer slowing or stopping me - she just left the area very quickly. Same with a leopard climbing a tree 96 image burst. These 20fps are great converted into movies AND I shoot at 20fps to ensure I get shots with the body position where I want it. BTW -- I cannot source the cards you are using in the UK.
Cobalt 650
Matt does the Z8 keep up to the Z9 using CF E only though?
yes on final production camera, it does.
@mattgranger thanks for the reply Matt.👍
Very very helpful thank you!!
Thanks Matt! How does the Z8 card door compare to the 6/7’s? My 7ii door would move around and eventually started creeking when pressure was applied.