Great video! I love my Z8, best camera I’ve ever shot with. You are right. I believe the reason Nikon made the Z8 with the features it has was because they realized their competitor was not the Z9, but Sony and Canon. That was a good choice on Nikon’s part.
I think that is an excellent way of putting it. Because comparing the Z9 to the top cameras of the other brands, the Z9 is superior in several ways. So they stripped a couple pro features, dropped the price to the next teir and again, blows the competition away at that 4000 price point. I will be very curious what they do with a Z9 mark 2 or whatever might be next. What do you like to shot?
It's just like the old d3 vs d700. Besides the 5:4 crop and burst mode there was little difference. Seems like a winning formula all over again a decade later.
I never personally used those cameras, but I have heard about how big of a deal the D3 was. I do think Nikon is on to something here even though on the surface it seems a bit odd. Either way, both cameras are incredible and time will tell if this was a good call.
I don't own either camera (still using 2 D850s but I am in the market for a Z8 or Z9). I have read that the built quality on the Z9 is more solid. I don't have access to either camera so I have no idea how each one feels as far as build quality.
I've used the Z 9 for about 18 months now, and the Z 8 for a few months. The build quality in reality is very very similar. Heck, the bodies are almost identical minus the built in vertical grip. But there are a few things that I have noticed from using the Z 8 now. First is over heating. I get a "hot card" pop up kind of frequently while shooting 4k 60 video or higher. Where as on the Z 9 it has only happened once when I was filming a wedding ceremony and it was 104 degrees out. Now, the Z 8 has never shut down on me, I keep it in the "standard" heat cutout option, and the recent firmware update actually addressed an issue of the warning popping up prematurely. But so far I still am noticing it happening. I'm reality, I'm not sure why this is happening though. Both cameras are writing to a pro grade cobalt cf express type b card with the same video settings in camera, so part of me believes it is just a firmware issue still, but I'll keep an eye on it for sure. Important to note that the Z 8 itself has never over heated, just the card. Other than that, it is tough to complain about it for my work. It still fits well in my hand, although I still personally enjoy the Z 9 because I have bigger hands. The battery dies VERY fast compared to the Z 9. My wife will have to do about 4 battery swaps with the Z 8 during the course of a wedding day, where as I usually only do one with the Z 9. But the mAh is obviously drastically different between the batteries so that isn't fair to compare. I personally like having the locking mechanism on the Z 9 card door, I have accidentally slid the Z 8 door open while shooting. And of course the way the battery sits in the Z 9 gives the body a nice balance and that extra weight at the bottom, but you could always use a grip with the Z 8. All in all though, like I said in the beginning they are incredibly similar as far as physical build quality goes. I could confidently recommend either of them!
Very nice video. I also have the Z9 and Z8, great combination. Use the Z8 by its self when I don’t want the “ bulk” of the Z9 or want don’t want to be too conspicuous. I like to say having both is like having two different size hammers in your tool box. Both do the same job but each is better for different jobs.
Thank you! Just trying to help people out in a way I wish I had been helped when I started out. And the hammer analogy is spot on. The Z 9 does have some clear advantages, even beyond what I brought up in the video. Such as the Auto Capture feature, the fact that you can record at essentially at iso 200 while recording in N-LOG now, the Z 8 is still a base of 800. But I didn't really go into this because those are firmware based differences. The size and the card slots can not be changed once you buy either camera. We bought the Z 8 so that my wife can shoot 4k 60 for our wedding films and she doesn't have to deal with an external monitor anymore while dealing with the gimbal. She has also mentioned how the Z 9 feels too large and cumbersome for her, but now that she played with the Z 8, she is in love lol. So I agree with you, they still serve slightly different purposes even if it isn't immediately noticeable
Like Brian Lock, I also have both camera and the Z8 is my go-to for travel and hiking. Last weekend, between the two cameras I shot about 20,000 frames (about 10,000 each) at a regional dog show. Most of the time I had the Z8, with battery grip attached and fitted with the Nikon Z 105mm f2.8 S Macro lens (about 40 percent of the shots were taken indoors under low light) and the Z9 was fitted with the Nikon Z 70-200mm f2.8 S. I have listened to other vloggers offer the opinion that the Z8 battery grip makes the Z8 "considerably bigger than the Z9 and it's integrated grip". Some have also said the Z8 with battery grip looks "ungainly". Whatever.... I often use both camera on alternative bursts depending on the composition I see before me, and to me it's hard to tell a difference in the heat of a shot sequence which camera is in my hands. Like you mention, the 3 biggest differences when the Z8 grip is attached is the amazing Z9 battery, the 2 slots for CFExpress with the Z9 versus one CFExpress and one SDXC on the Z8, and the greater video longevity and heat dissipation of the Z9. In reality, I just feel fortunate to own both of them.
I also enjoy having both and using them for different things. Personally, I enjoy the size of the Z9 because of the size of my hands, but I know having a smaller form factor with the Z8 is beneficial for a lot of people. My wife uses the Z8 as a second shooter for weddings and she has been loving it!
Great information. I purchased a Nikon D4s back in 2014 and I love this camera. It over performed my D70 and D200 in so many ways. I started to purchase the trinity lens set. I bought a Nikon 70-200 mm f2.8 in 2014. I then got my Nikon 24-70 mm f2.8 in 2015. And I finally got my Nikon 14-24 f2.8 in 2018. In 2020, I purchased a 300 mm AI-F f2.8 zoom lens. When 2022 came around, I decided to buy the Nikon Z9 with the FTZ II adapter. I really wanted to retain my lenses. It would be great to have you compare the FX mount trinity lenses with Z mounts to see if their is a significant reason to obtain Z mount lenses or be happy to use the FTZ II adaptor to utilize my FX mount lenses. I still like my Nikon D4s because it shoots, focuses and handles low light conditions even at ISO 25,600. I subscribed in hopes to see if you are able to do that comparison.
I appreciate the subscription and the in depth comment. Unfortunately, that is not a test that I will be able to conduct as I don't have any of the F mount lenses. I started my photo/video journey in 2019 starting with the Z6 and I have only ever had mirrorless/Z mount gear. With that said, I might be able to provide some feedback that might give you some insight. When it comes to the physical mount of any camera, there are some technical details that do play a factor in lens performance. The Z mount itself is much better than the F mount and here are some details to show that. The Z mount has 11 electrical pin connectors to communicate with the lens which allows for faster communication between the Z lens and the camera body. It also has a throat diameter (the size of the hole in the camera) of 55mm and a flange distance (distance from the metal ring the lens attaches with to the sensor surface) of 16mm. This means that the Z mount has the largest opening and shortest flange distance of any full frame camera on the market. In real world terms, this means faster AF, better low light performance and less vignetting. This also means that the Z mount can natively support apertures between f/0 and f/1 without any issues due to how large the throat is. Now lets look at the F mount. It has 10 electrical pin connectors for communication, a throat diameter of 44mm and a massive flange distance of 46.5mm compared to the 16mm on the Z mount. I understand that a real world comparison would be helpful and I apologize that a test like that is not something that I can do preform, but there is no question that Z lenses attaching natively to a Z mount will be much better that adapting older lenses, or any lenses for that matter. Adapting always has some drawbacks, but that doesn't mean they are useless. Which leads me to my final point. Your request to see a comparison is because you want to know if there is a significant reason to obtain the Z lenses or if you could happy using the adapter. And that my friend, is something only you can answer. And really that comes down to, are you successfully capturing the images that you want to capture with the gear that you already have. If you are, then there ya go, no need to invest in the new lenses quite yet. If you feel like the gear is not preforming well enough, then look into the new lenses. Like you explained for the F mount lenses, you don't need to upgrade all 3 at the same time. Lenses can outlast camera bodies for a long time, so just take it slow and enjoy the journey. Also, sometimes Nikon offers deals where you can buy a lens and get a loan and the loan will be 0% interest for 24 months. So you will have a monthly payment, but it helps break up that cost over several months and you don't end up paying anymore for it as long as you pay it off in 2 years. I hope this has been helpful, I know it isn't what you were looking for necessarily, but I try to be helpful any way I can. So let me know if there is anything else you might be interested in!
@@AaronSpieler Thanks for the feedback and the insight on Z mount characteristics. Makes a lot of sense. For now, I will still hold on to my F mount lenses as I still enjoy shooting with my D4s. The trinity lens set work flawlessly so far with my Z9 through the FTZ II. I was curious if there would be significant improvement in the image. Thank you.
Of course! Again, I'm sorry that I couldn't be more help and do those tests. I'd imagine someone has done them out there. I would imagine for a vast majority of situations that the F mount image quality is just fine. Happy shooting!
The d4s was one of the best cameras I ever owned. While mine is currently a paperweight, I had (technically still have) an aging stable of d4 bodies that I've been using up until about a month ago. One stop had an electrical problem, one had autofocusing issues, and a shutter blade fell off my good one. I got a z9 to replace it. Comparison wise, it is clearly better than the D4 and reminds me more of my D4s. Having used the D4 and D4s for an extended period of time, the D4s wasn't incremental in its performance from the d4. It was far better in low light, far better autofocuser (especially with af-g), and the video was usable. The z9 is a great evolution from that low light is amazing, the autofocus is very accurate and snappy, and the transition was comfortable in a way that trying a Sony or canon wasn't. It's hard to gauge the difference an image quality. Obviously the z9 has much higher resolution images, but the color science is very similar between the D4s and the z9. Much more similar then the difference between the D3 and d4. The z9 has uglier noise but it's way easier to pull out than on the D4 or D4s. It'd be worth renting one to see if you would want to switch... I did buy the FTZ adapter, instead of replacing all my native lenses (I did buy one native lens though) and I didn't notice any drop in performance. In fact I think the images from my 14-24mm look better out of the z9 than the DSLRs...
I disagree. I have the Z9 and Z8 since these came out. To me, the smaller battery (800 shots VS 6000) is huge, no GPS, No Pre-shot butter for birds, and two different cards is silly for a bird photographer. That is why I'm selling the Z8 and buying another Z9H (in a few months). The only advantage of the Z8 over the Z9 is that it is smaller. I'm waiting for a -very small- Z6 III as my back-up.
I have also had both since they came out (a few months after release). The Z9 has obviously seen a larger jump in improvement over the course of some incredible firmware updates. They chose to give the Z8 a head start by starting it off pretty much caught up with the Z9 in many ways. With that said, I'll rebuttable a bit on what you said. I would agree with you when it comes to the battery, however having the vertical grip option with the Z8 which allows for 2 EN-EL15c batteries is a great option for most people. Not only does this give you more battery life than one EN-EL18d battery (Z9), but it gives you the option to not always have a vertical grip to deal with. I do believe that EN-EL18d batteries can give off more power, so I don't know if two EN-EL15c batteries will actually surpass the 18d in a real world test, but at least on paper this option makes them extremely similar. I also agree with the GPS issue, I love having it. Although, I would say this is definitely a pro feature though and is unnecessary for a majority of people that would be considering buying a Z8. As of the time of this comment, the Z9 is on FW 4.1 and the Z8 is on FW 1.01. They have the same AF subject detection options despite the Z8 not having a dedicated bird option. But regardless of the AF detect option that is selected, both offer the same Pre-Release Capture options (I believe this is what you are referring to). So in your testing, have you noticed the Z8 significantly under preform when using Pre-Release Capture with the animal AF detect selected compared to the Z9? There is also a chance that they will add bird detect to the Z8 at some point. When it comes to having 2 different card slots, I completely agree with you. That is why I touched on it in this video as a serious issue, especially from a professional shooter stand point. The bottle neck that an SD card will create for both video and photo is what, in my opinion, truly separates the Z9 at this point. This is very much true when shooting back to back 20fps RAW burst, you will hit that buffer much quicker on the SD card. Now, you lost me with the Z6 III comment. So you would give up all the great things about the Z8, considering you already have it, in favor of a down grade? As a wildlife photographer, this seems like an odd choice. The Z6 III will probably still have 2 different card slots, a BSI CMOS sensor rather than a stacked sensor, a 24 MP sensor, and the same battery as the Z8. I doubt it will have the FPS that the Z8 has, or bird detect. I'm guessing it will be more focused on video at this point. Or are you saying that you will just have 2 Z9's and then a Z6 III as a third round back up?
I love my Z9 with the two CF Exp B cards. Knowing you have a suitable backup or additional storage location is a peace of mind. My second shooter is the Z7II for light weight portability.
I do too. And honestly, like I touched on in the video, that is the main reason for the Z9 overall. Yes, it is still a "better" camera when you look at every single feature. But few people need every single feature. So for most people it won't matter to have dual type B, but I think for anyone doing professional work, it is definitely something to consider
I enjoyed watching this video. It sounded like someone who actually knows what he's talking about, unlike many other "pro" RUclips photographers and videographers. Thanks for this informative video. I really appreciate it.
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words 🙏 I really like these cameras and the results I can get out of them, but they aren't perfect by any means. I try to be a voice of reason and help people be informed accurately about these products.
Good video ! I own both the Z8 and Z9, and there are other minor differences besides the ones you mentioned. The Z8, with the battery grip, looks pretty ugly and makes the whole camera bigger (taller) than the Z9. I find that one fully charged battery on the Z9 seems to last longer than 2 EN-EL15c on the Z8. The body material is actually different in the Z9, making it more tough, and much better for dissipating heat. And, since I own the Z180-600mm lens, it seems to focus just a hair faster on the Z9, perhaps due to the bigger battery, or better focusing motor. The Z8 is great and I love it, but the Z9 is the real pro here.
I'll respond individually just to make it easier haha So I agree that any grip attachment is a downside. While they are incredibly similar in size and weight and that point, I agree that the Z8 is bigger. It also isn't as weather sealed and now you have to have 4, 6, or 8 batteries instead of 1,2 or 3. And possibly more chargers and all that. That is why I tried to stress that point that if you believe vertical shooting is important to you, a built in vertical grip is much nicer than you might realize. Now that I have had one, I don't want to go back, especially with long lenses. I was unaware that the body material is different as Nikon claims that they are the same. Now the way all the internals are laid out has to be different, and that very well can help with heat. With that said, I have used both in the same situations and have never had over heating issues with either. At least at 4k 60p in Pro Res HQ shooting. I don't shoot in RAW, files are too big and I don't need it. The cards will say they are hot occasionally, but then I just open the side door and it's all good. But I would imagine the Z 9 is still better at heat dissipation. The longest lens I have is the 70-200 2.8, and I haven't found a difference yet in focusing speed or accuracy. But at those longer lengths, I'll take your word for it haha.
I thought pixel shift would be added to the Z9 at some point, since it's in the Z8 firmware. A Nikon rep said that the Z9 probably could not do pixel shift because the sensor stabilization is a little different than the Z8/Zf. The Z8 with the vertical grip is about 0.5 inches (~1.5cm) taller than the Z9. While older EN-EL15 batteries can be used in the Z8, I think only the EN-EL15c allows USB-PD charging in-camera.
That's interesting to hear about the stabilization in the Z9. And as far as USB-C charging on the Z8, the 15b, 15c, and 3rd party batteries all charge with mine. But my buddy with a Zf is saying that he has to have the 15C for it to charge. I guess Nikon changed something with the Zf, but I don't really understand all of that.
I haven't done the research myself,,, But it is my understanding the the z9 is much tougher and has a much better weather sealing than the z8 and maybe that's a reason why the z9 is that much more expensive?
the Z9 is probably a little more robust considering it is all one piece. and the weather sealing does seem to be a little better from a visual inspection. but i would find it hard to believe that those two things would justify the 1500 dollar difference. I believe the Z9 is marketed to pros and the Z8 was an attempt to market to the prosummer market by making the body "non pro" style by removing the grip. I honestly don't really know why the price is different.
Thank you for brining that up. Diving into the spec numbers like that is not something that I have done yet for either of these cameras. With that said, I wanted to stick to the points that I felt would be most relevant for why someone would purchase either of the cameras. While the Z9 is slightly better in their tests, they both have a 98 overall sensor score. Do you believe that the .2 different in DR would sway your purchasing decision? Honest question.
Coming in a few months late to comment in this - I shot 38 weddings this year with the Z8 and Z9 combo. Z9 definitely performs better in low light. It’s mostly noticeable in REALLY bad lighting situations. I noticed it most in dark barn settings. Noise and auto white balance performance were worse on the Z8 in those extreme situations.
38 is impressive. We have shot 8 with both of them now and I haven't noticed a big difference in performance aside from overheating and battery life which is of no surprise. But the Z8 has never stopped shooting do to heat, just will pop up saying that the card is hot. But the firmware 1.01 update said that it fixed an issue where that warning would pop up prematurely. Since upgrading the firmware, I haven't seen that warning pop up. I can't find anything that officially states this, but I shoot at 4000 iso in low light and it seems to be a second native iso. It looks super clean in post and the auto focus is super impressive. Both with 1.8 and 2.8 lenses on both cameras. I can't speak to the auto wb as we set wb manually for each shot. At this point, the only thing that would make me get another z9 over z8 is battery life and ergonomics, but that is based on my personal experience with both cameras thus far
Yeah, to be totally honest the times when I've noticed a difference between the two cameras were when I was in REALLY terrible conditions and I had to put the ISO up way higher than 4000. Just 3 weeks ago I shot a wedding inside a tiny, wood-lined hall. The ceilings were comically low and it was very crowded. OCF was impossible so I had to shoot everything with ambient light until the dance floor opened up. I spent most of the day between 8000-12800. Properly exposed on both bodies and the Z9 images came out perfectly fine but the Z8 images looked terrible. Barely usable. @@AaronSpieler
So if i PRIMARILY shoot wildlife (fast moving birds sometimes) AND i want a GOOOOD sharp tracking (eyes ... etc) AF system .... which one would you recommend ?
To just get to the point, the Z9. This is because at the time of this comment, the Z9 has bird AF detect while the Z8 does not. Now, the Z8 will still pick up birds with the animal AF detect selected, but in theory, the Z9 will still preform better. Now to be clear, I have not personally tested this, so I am not sure if it really makes a difference. Also, the Z8 may get a FW update that includes bird AF at some point. Lastly, if you are not already invested in the Z system, you will probably get better results overall from Sony. But I do believe Nikon has the best overall mirrorless system at this time for the money. Also, Nikon has some stellar lenses that sets it apart from the competition and camera bodies will only get better and better. Hope this helps!
I'm nor sure it leap frogged it, but yes, it does have the pixel shift which is pretty sweet. Been trying it out. I'd be surprised if the Z9 doesn't get it at some point as well. I'd also imagine a Z9 mark 2 is in the works for the Paris Olympics
@@AaronSpieler I meant in terms of software it has . The Z 9 is a big brick of a camera , it’s fine for professionals but let’s face it if your doing a street shoot with a model who wants to lug that that around with an 85 1.2 on it haha . I can shoot all day with the z 8 and one extra battery and never used two ever ! You just have to have the habit of not leaving camera on for long periods without shooting .
Can your clients actually tell whether you shot in a raw format? If so, are you using the right camera? Nikon and Canon (perhaps excepting the R5C) are designed for stills photography, but they have pretty decent video capabilities. I don't do video, though I have some training in it. I do stills photography, and I have quite the collection of cameras. I think all of them have been discontinued. I think upgrading my skills matters more than upgrading my cameras. One of my cameras is a (just discontinued) Lumix S1R. I bought it to replace my eos 5Ds because I can make photos with it that I cannot make with any Canon (or Nikon or Sony) camera. I see so many photographers upgrading to the newest version of their camera despite the camera having nothing new _and_ useful. Another of my cameras is a Lumix GH5s. It comes with V-Log installed, can shoot video until the cards are full, can record 10-bit video at 4K. I discovered at its maximum video quality it can fill its cards in 42 minutes. It was superseded by the GH5 Mark II and GH6.
First, to answer your initial questions, there are some factors on if someone could tell if it was shot in RAW. The only way someone would be able to tell is if the final export was in 12-bit color depth/color space and then have a monitor that can display 12-bit color. DVDs are 8-bit and BluRay is 10-bit. Everything online is either 8 or 10 bit and usually in a rec.709 color space so that videos online can be viewed by as many screens as possible worldwide. If you record N-RAW with N-Log color space, you will be color correcting/grading the footage anyways so that leads me to the next point. Recording in RAW video is really only beneficial from a video editing stand point, not really for the final product for a vast majority of people and projects. Just like RAW photos, RAW video allows video editors and color graders more correcting and creative latitude in post production. For me personally, I'm already invested into the Nikon ecosystem and I wanted to ability to shoot in 4k 60 and 120 fps without a crop. As someone that does so professional video for clients, I decided that this was a priority. So the Z9 was purchased originally because it can do that and more. The Z8 was purchased because I didn't need another Z9, but it still has the same recording abilities so that gives us continuity while shooting. I also do photography professionally and you would have a hard time finding better photo cameras than the Z8 and Z9 right now for a lot of different shooting scenarios. Not to say that they are perfect or that there aren't other good cameras, but these 2 are really good. Like in photography, the main thing that will change the look of your photos and videos is your lenses. I also agree that working on your skills is far more important than buying new gear. I will not recommend people buying new gear just for the sake of having the newest thing. Gear absolutely matters, when there is a valid reason to have it and you know how to maximize its abilities. Lastly, the Z8 and Z9 both have a 125min record limit, but how long you can record in total obviously is dictated by card size, codec, frame rate and resolution, so it just depends. Hope this answers your questions! Thanks for the comment
Z8 takes the same battery as Z6II en-el15C. Z6 takes en-el15B. I used third party batteries with Z6. When I switched to Z6II it turned out they didn't work with newer body.
I have both cameras, they're both great, but the z9 is more robust in terms of heat and humidity. The z8 is very robust for what it is, but I've over heated it and I've had the humidity get into the z8 but not the z9 on the same day in the same place. Most people don't need a z9, but this is the biggest difference for a professional IMHO.
I have not had the Z8 over heat on me yet, just have gotten the warning on the screen. I also don't know how much of a difference the high temp cutout does, but I know that firmware version 1.01 states "Changed the timing of the high-temperature warnings appearing when the camera’s internal temperature increases mainly during video recording." So I do believe the Z9 is better with heat, my theory is where the battery is physically located on both cameras makes the difference, but that is pure speculation. Other than that, I have been able to use the cameras interchangeably. The Z9 does feel better to me in the hands and definitely has that pro feel. I use the vertical grip All. The. Freakin. Time. I love it. But does it justify the extra 1500 when you can attach a grip for less money on the Z8, probably not for most people. I know it has some other exclusive features as well, but I think your take is accurate. Glad Nikon did it though. Not sure it makes the most since to make them so similar, but as a consumer I like it.
So could the focus issues I'm having with the Z8 have anything to do with the cards writings at different speeds? What exactly do you mean by bottleneck can you explain this further please? Shooting at 60fps or slower results in very few if at all sharp shots. I shoot surfing at far distances and the only way to get sharp shots is to shoot at 20 or 30fps.
I will start by elaborating on what I mean by there being a bottleneck. The primary memory card slot on the Z 8 is designed for a CF Express Type B memory card. Like any memory card, multiple brands make these cards and with different speeds. I personally use the Pro Grade Cobalt cards which are the top of the line cards. They have a max read speed of 1700 MB/s and a max write speed of 1500 MB/s. The higher the number, the longer the camera can take photos before hitting a buffer where it has to slow down to be able to write all of those photos to the memory card. I also use the Pro Grade Cobalt SD card in the secondary memory card slot on my Z 8. Again, speeds can vary quite a bit, but these in particular have a max read speed of 300 MB/s and a max write speed of 250 MB/s. There are a few that go up to 260, 270, and 280 for the write speed, but these are all incredibly slow compared to what CF Express Type B can do. With that established, if you are shooting to both cards simultaneously with the back up option selected in the photo shooting menu, the SD card will ALWAYS hit a buffer before the CF Express card do to the slower write speeds of the SD card. For a vast majority of people, this is not an issue and to be honest, 250 MB/s is still very fast for burst photos. But for a professional sports or wildlife photographer that may be in a situation that they need to do several bursts back to back to back to back, this bottleneck could potentially present an issue. As I mentioned in the video, I like have the dual CF Express in the Z 9 because that allows me to switch between the cards seamlessly while shooting video if one of the cards has an issue. The Z 8 and Z 9 have identical shooting modes for video, same sensor as well, but not all of those video modes can be shot on the SD card of the Z 8. As far as the focusing issues that you are having, I don't believe the card speeds would directly impact the auto focusing capabilities. I could be wrong, but these systems are separate from each other. I am not sure how you are shooting at 51 fps, but one possible explanation would be if your shutter speed is too close to the fps you are shooting. But I am assuming that you are at pretty fast shutter speeds if you are shooting surfing. My other question would be lens choice? Are you adapting your lenses? Are they entry level lenses? I noticed a pretty big jump in image quality when I went from the 24-200 lens to the 70-200 lens when shooting fast moving objects. Assuming those aren't any of the issues, I would recommend making sure that your settings are dialed in. Both of these cameras can only shoot RAW up to 20 fps, anything over that is a JPG image. I would make sure the Active D lighting and high ISO NR are both turned off for sport shooting. I would recommend only using back focusing with AF-C on of course. In the custom settings menu, under A6, make sure that is set to AF-ON only and just use the AF-ON button for focusing. If you try to use the shutter, there could be delays in auto focus between bursts as you reacquire focus. Under A3 in your custom settings menu, this has to do with focus tracking, I would make sure you have that set to Erratic for subject motion. I don't personally use this, but it might be worth trying. I know this was long winded, but I always give more info and you can take the parts that you need. I hope this was helpful. I would be willing to help you further if you keep having issues or want to clarify anything else. I hope you are able to start getting better results because the camera really is spectacular. Lastly, I have reread your comment a few times while responding and I believe you are talking about photos, but I would like to just make sure that you aren't referring to video in this case? Just want to double check.
@@AaronSpieler Thanks so much this was very helpful Aaron! I didn't mean to write 51fps, I actually meant to write 20fps sorry about that! For now, until the Z 180-600 hits the stores, I'm stuck using my adapted Nikkor 200-500 f/5.6, which btw suck for fast panning! Otherwise this lens seems to perform much better with Z8 than with the D850! I use both the CF Express type B card with the SDXC UHS -II card. Read speed 300MB's write speed 260Mb's on the SD card. I miss understood you so today I didn't use the SD in back up but switched to overflow.
@@AaronSpieler I very rarely shoot long bursts so I'm thinking this issue won't really affect me too much right? Aaron can you explain why I seem to get a very low hit rate shooting at 15fps? Not just that but I'm seeing a lot of motion blur at that frame rate? Even when shooting people at close range I still get a low hit rate. At 30fps I seem to get 85 to 90 % hit rate and at 20fpos 80% are good but I'm seeing a lot of motion blur and even the ones that are sharp aren't tack sharp. The sweet spot for shooting surfing at the far distances with this z8 seems to be 1/2000 f/8 ISO 400-500, area mode wide, People detect, back button focus, larger focus box, DX mode, VR on normal, 20&30 fps. I really wish I could bet a better hit rate at 15fps to avoid having so many files at the end of the day. I actually bought the Z8 because I wanted a quality hybrid camera that allows me to pull his res sills from the video. I did a couple video's you can see on my facebook wall facebook.com/noa.napoleon.3
@@AaronSpieler Sorry, one more question: any idea why the CF Express cards seem to stick slightly in the camera when you pull them out? Actually the Delkin Black CF Express type B sticks too for some reason? Are on facebook? I subscribed to your RUclips channel looking around there for helpful hints about this Z8! I haven't been shooting for that long so a lot of the techy stuff goes way over my head! Thanks again for the help!
Ooops sorry one more question about video: If I shoot in 4K 60 fps and export in 4k 60fps using Capcut, am I actually getting 4K in the final product? Sorry so many dumb questions! I just started doing vids so I'm really totally lost!
The target consumer is definitely different between the two cameras. The Z9 is targeted at pros that are getting paid for higher end and more demanding jobs. The Z8 took so much of what made the Z9 great and was put in a more affordable body, although still not cheap by any means.
Differences are small. Probably the housing of the Z 9 is seriously more expensive. Also, Nikon may have some licensing strategy where they make certain functions available in one price range but not another. The Z 9 will have a different "motherboard" and chipset surrounding sensor and EXPEED 7 processor. The camera needs all the real estate (area and volume) for it to be able to run at top speed until the memory card is full - without overheating. As to the batteries, note that the milli.Amp.hours do not reflect "energy" as you need "Watt.hours" (or kilo.Watt.hours or Watt.seconds or Joules) for that. EN-EL18d: 10.8V, 3300mAh > 35.64 Wh EN-EL15c: 7V, 2280mAh > 16.42 Wh
I'm sure the Z 9 body is more expensive to make. And there are some things about it that do make it more "durable", but the Z 8 is so similar when it comes to build quality. Having the vertical grip built in from a physical stand point is so nice for action/wildlife shooting when switching back and forth between landscape and portrait happens so quickly. So if that is primarily what you shoot, having it built in is nice. Attaching a grip to the Z 8 will definitely change its durability to an extent, but for most people that would get the Z 8 over the Z 9 this wouldn't really be an issue I would imagine. I have gotten the hot card warning on the Z 8 a couple times back when it was on firmware 1.0, but it never cutoff on me and the camera itself never said it was hot. And firmware 1.01 addressed an issue when the hot card warning would come on prematurely and ever since updating it, I haven't gotten the warning again. So while physics dictate that the Z 9 has to be better when it comes to heat dissipation, I personally have not found this to be an issue with the Z 8. For the batteries, are you saying the EN-EL18d batteries deliver more power overall to the Z 9 than the 18c batteries can deliver to the Z 8?
@@AaronSpieler - nice and thanks for going in depth. The Z 9 IMO, today, only is relevant to video production houses, wealthy birders, and paparazzi shooting with very long lenses. The hot card warning could be due to your choice of card more than the camera, actually. Try Delkin 1TB (Gen 4) CFexpress cards - the best. Extreme number of P/E cycles [1]. As you can see from my calculation (Watt = V *A ) the EN-EL18 has double the energy of the EN-EL15. I would however bring a powerbank and USB cable that can relay (say) 100W. Note that USB -C cables come in all sorts of specs and some of them are worthless in that they may be able to slowly charge mobile phone. Others can shift data at Thunderbolt Gen 4 speed and charge at 100W or more. [1] P/E cycles define the card's life expectancy in rewrites at the block level. A Samsung EVO SSD may get to maybe 300 and a PRO to maybe 1000. The Delkin card - I e-mailed with them a year ago - 30,000. If a manufacturer specifies the life expectancy they may use another unit: TBW - Total Bytes Written. If you divide TBW by storage capacity then you have Program/Erase cycles. If a manufacturer does not (want to) specify TBW or P/E cycles, then it's probably a lousy number that makes your cheap card very expensive.
If you use 2 EN-EL15c batteries in the vertical grip on the Z8, would that give you more power than the 18d? I have been using the ProGrade Cobalt cards with both cameras, including the SD version in the Z8 and have been very happy with them. I know the CFeB 4.0 cards look pretty sweet, but you clearly understand more of the tech specs of them than I do.
@@AaronSpieler - 2x EN-EL15c give less Watt.hour than the EN-EL18d, so the short of it is "no". As the "18" runs a higher Voltage, it may run (parts in) the Z 9 camera at a higher Voltage too and in that case, it may burn through its Watt.hours faster than two EN-EL15c in the Z 8. A PowerBank with power-delivery smartness that is compatible with the Z 8 would however be a good alternative. Just make sure to connect a cable that can relay the Watts for fast charging or powering the camera.
@@AaronSpieler - SD are cheap but a speed limitation to the camera. The dual slot Z cameras know that in their firmware and do not allow certain use of both slots at te same time. ProGrade Cobalt would be on my shortlist and the differences in there are small. But my Delkin choice was driven by extreme P/E cycle specs and being Gen 4, plus their people were great to communicate with.
I'm coming from the D850 with battery grip. I knew the Z8 has literally the same technical and image quality related features as the Z9, but the battery grip for the Z8 is ugly and makes the camera as expensive as the Z9. So I got me a Z9, as I need the grip for my work.
If you know you are going to want/need a grip a lot, I would go with the Z 9 as well. Last time I looked, it is still cheaper to go Z 8 w/grip, but there are definitely some draw backs
You missed the most critical difference. The Z9 has a full magnesium body that will not overheat when shooting high data rate video like 8K NRAW. The Z8 only has a magnesium base plate & its smaller body & carbon fiber construction does not dissipate heat the same as the Z9 does. The Z8 would shut down in a continuous shooting situation while the Z9 will not, with the caveat that outdoors in direct sunlight it likely would at some point. If I were a wedding photographer...a scenario you actually described but related to the card...I would be very leery of trying to shoot video of the ceremony with a Z8. Other shooting scenarios that could be problematic...a video documentary where you're having to run with continuous shooting, or a sporting event. Basically anything where you can't simply stop the video & then start again would be problematic for the Z8.
Since making that video, I haven't had an issue with either camera over heating. I will get the hot card warning, but that's it. And I didn't mention the body make up differences since that is a pretty niche area of interest. My goal with the video was to help buyers that want the Z 9, but feel it is too expensive and were wondering if the Z 8 would work. For sure there are still differences that make the Z 9 better, but for a majority of consumers, those aren't the things that make it worth the extra 1500. But your points are valid
@@AaronSpieler Since the Z9 is a video-centric mirrorles camera made for professionals, I would assume most people willing to drop $5500 on one are working pros who will use it for video work primarily. That is its niche. The Z8 has been over-stated as the little brother that can do everything the Z9 can do, but imagine finding out that you needed it to shoot weddings but it might die in the middle of the ceremony. The heat issue to me is a huge problem & removes it from consideration for anyone who needs to be certain they can shoot continuously for more than a few minutes. Given that I could make up the cost differential on a single job, it's a no-brainer to get the Z9 for me.
To each their own I suppose. My Z 8 has given me very little issues for what I use it for, including any overheating. I still take my 9 over the 8, but it certainly isn't necessary for a vast majority of cases.
This is true, but I left that out on purpose because it is firmware based. I wanted to stick to the aspects that are not changeable so to speak. When Nikon released the details on the 4.0 update, they did claim the Z 8 would get auto capture in the future. They have since removed that little detail which I admit is odd and a bit frustrating, but I do believe there is a chance that the Z 8 will get it eventually. With that said, the Z 9 does have it now and there is not guarantee that the Z 8 will get it. So if that is a very key feature to your workflow, then the Z 9 would be worth it for the time being.
@@AaronSpieler fair enough, though I suspect that Nikon will be looking to differentiate between the two. Battery life and weight being the two biggest differences aren't enough to justify the price difference :) I've been trying to decide between a Z8 and a Z9 for my next camera, and although autocapture might be very useful for bird photography, it isn't actually going to be a deal breaker and tbh - here in the UK it's possible to get a z9 as a grey import - fully guaranteed from a reputable website as well - for less than a Z8 at the moment, so its a bit of a no brainer.
I do think that having 1 CF Express slot and 1 SD slot is the biggest difference that will seperate the two cameras in the long run. From a professional stand point, the draw backs of the SD slot are a problem. That was ultimately my main point by making this video. So for nearly everyone, the Z 8 is the obvious choice. But having dual CF Express does make a big difference for certain professional jobs. It still begs the question though, why are the cameras 1500 dollars different? I'm honestly not sure.
Very true. I chose not to include it in this video since it isn't a feature that most people would consider a "make it or break it" factor when considering either of these cameras. With that said, the built in GPS is great!
I have the Z8 and I really miss GPS, coming from Pentax. I know I can use Snapbridge, but I would prefer a hardware solution. Do you know of one? @@AaronSpieler
@@AaronSpieler as they say, i dont need to explain what is already understood. For 95% of people the z8 is still the better choice. especially if you are looking at portability and still use.
I was just thinking about which model to buy, you just saved me 1500 bucks! Thanks dude 🎉
Any time man! Lol
Great video!
I love my Z8, best camera I’ve ever shot with.
You are right. I believe the reason Nikon made the Z8 with the features it has was because they realized their competitor was not the Z9, but Sony and Canon. That was a good choice on Nikon’s part.
I think that is an excellent way of putting it. Because comparing the Z9 to the top cameras of the other brands, the Z9 is superior in several ways. So they stripped a couple pro features, dropped the price to the next teir and again, blows the competition away at that 4000 price point. I will be very curious what they do with a Z9 mark 2 or whatever might be next. What do you like to shot?
Finally someone who speaks American English and says Zee instead of Zed!
😂yep, born and raised in the US of A haha
It's just like the old d3 vs d700. Besides the 5:4 crop and burst mode there was little difference. Seems like a winning formula all over again a decade later.
I never personally used those cameras, but I have heard about how big of a deal the D3 was. I do think Nikon is on to something here even though on the surface it seems a bit odd. Either way, both cameras are incredible and time will tell if this was a good call.
I don't own either camera (still using 2 D850s but I am in the market for a Z8 or Z9). I have read that the built quality on the Z9 is more solid. I don't have access to either camera so I have no idea how each one feels as far as build quality.
I've used the Z 9 for about 18 months now, and the Z 8 for a few months. The build quality in reality is very very similar. Heck, the bodies are almost identical minus the built in vertical grip. But there are a few things that I have noticed from using the Z 8 now. First is over heating. I get a "hot card" pop up kind of frequently while shooting 4k 60 video or higher. Where as on the Z 9 it has only happened once when I was filming a wedding ceremony and it was 104 degrees out. Now, the Z 8 has never shut down on me, I keep it in the "standard" heat cutout option, and the recent firmware update actually addressed an issue of the warning popping up prematurely. But so far I still am noticing it happening. I'm reality, I'm not sure why this is happening though. Both cameras are writing to a pro grade cobalt cf express type b card with the same video settings in camera, so part of me believes it is just a firmware issue still, but I'll keep an eye on it for sure. Important to note that the Z 8 itself has never over heated, just the card. Other than that, it is tough to complain about it for my work. It still fits well in my hand, although I still personally enjoy the Z 9 because I have bigger hands. The battery dies VERY fast compared to the Z 9. My wife will have to do about 4 battery swaps with the Z 8 during the course of a wedding day, where as I usually only do one with the Z 9. But the mAh is obviously drastically different between the batteries so that isn't fair to compare. I personally like having the locking mechanism on the Z 9 card door, I have accidentally slid the Z 8 door open while shooting. And of course the way the battery sits in the Z 9 gives the body a nice balance and that extra weight at the bottom, but you could always use a grip with the Z 8. All in all though, like I said in the beginning they are incredibly similar as far as physical build quality goes. I could confidently recommend either of them!
Very nice video.
I also have the Z9 and Z8, great combination. Use the Z8 by its self when I don’t want the “ bulk” of the Z9 or want don’t want to be too conspicuous. I like to say having both is like having two different size hammers in your tool box. Both do the same job but each is better for different jobs.
Thank you! Just trying to help people out in a way I wish I had been helped when I started out. And the hammer analogy is spot on. The Z 9 does have some clear advantages, even beyond what I brought up in the video. Such as the Auto Capture feature, the fact that you can record at essentially at iso 200 while recording in N-LOG now, the Z 8 is still a base of 800. But I didn't really go into this because those are firmware based differences. The size and the card slots can not be changed once you buy either camera. We bought the Z 8 so that my wife can shoot 4k 60 for our wedding films and she doesn't have to deal with an external monitor anymore while dealing with the gimbal. She has also mentioned how the Z 9 feels too large and cumbersome for her, but now that she played with the Z 8, she is in love lol. So I agree with you, they still serve slightly different purposes even if it isn't immediately noticeable
Like Brian Lock, I also have both camera and the Z8 is my go-to for travel and hiking. Last weekend, between the two cameras I shot about 20,000 frames (about 10,000 each) at a regional dog show. Most of the time I had the Z8, with battery grip attached and fitted with the Nikon Z 105mm f2.8 S Macro lens (about 40 percent of the shots were taken indoors under low light) and the Z9 was fitted with the Nikon Z 70-200mm f2.8 S. I have listened to other vloggers offer the opinion that the Z8 battery grip makes the Z8 "considerably bigger than the Z9 and it's integrated grip". Some have also said the Z8 with battery grip looks "ungainly". Whatever.... I often use both camera on alternative bursts depending on the composition I see before me, and to me it's hard to tell a difference in the heat of a shot sequence which camera is in my hands. Like you mention, the 3 biggest differences when the Z8 grip is attached is the amazing Z9 battery, the 2 slots for CFExpress with the Z9 versus one CFExpress and one SDXC on the Z8, and the greater video longevity and heat dissipation of the Z9. In reality, I just feel fortunate to own both of them.
I also enjoy having both and using them for different things. Personally, I enjoy the size of the Z9 because of the size of my hands, but I know having a smaller form factor with the Z8 is beneficial for a lot of people. My wife uses the Z8 as a second shooter for weddings and she has been loving it!
Great information. I purchased a Nikon D4s back in 2014 and I love this camera. It over performed my D70 and D200 in so many ways. I started to purchase the trinity lens set. I bought a Nikon 70-200 mm f2.8 in 2014. I then got my Nikon 24-70 mm f2.8 in 2015. And I finally got my Nikon 14-24 f2.8 in 2018. In 2020, I purchased a 300 mm AI-F f2.8 zoom lens. When 2022 came around, I decided to buy the Nikon Z9 with the FTZ II adapter. I really wanted to retain my lenses. It would be great to have you compare the FX mount trinity lenses with Z mounts to see if their is a significant reason to obtain Z mount lenses or be happy to use the FTZ II adaptor to utilize my FX mount lenses. I still like my Nikon D4s because it shoots, focuses and handles low light conditions even at ISO 25,600. I subscribed in hopes to see if you are able to do that comparison.
I appreciate the subscription and the in depth comment. Unfortunately, that is not a test that I will be able to conduct as I don't have any of the F mount lenses. I started my photo/video journey in 2019 starting with the Z6 and I have only ever had mirrorless/Z mount gear. With that said, I might be able to provide some feedback that might give you some insight.
When it comes to the physical mount of any camera, there are some technical details that do play a factor in lens performance. The Z mount itself is much better than the F mount and here are some details to show that. The Z mount has 11 electrical pin connectors to communicate with the lens which allows for faster communication between the Z lens and the camera body. It also has a throat diameter (the size of the hole in the camera) of 55mm and a flange distance (distance from the metal ring the lens attaches with to the sensor surface) of 16mm. This means that the Z mount has the largest opening and shortest flange distance of any full frame camera on the market. In real world terms, this means faster AF, better low light performance and less vignetting. This also means that the Z mount can natively support apertures between f/0 and f/1 without any issues due to how large the throat is.
Now lets look at the F mount. It has 10 electrical pin connectors for communication, a throat diameter of 44mm and a massive flange distance of 46.5mm compared to the 16mm on the Z mount.
I understand that a real world comparison would be helpful and I apologize that a test like that is not something that I can do preform, but there is no question that Z lenses attaching natively to a Z mount will be much better that adapting older lenses, or any lenses for that matter. Adapting always has some drawbacks, but that doesn't mean they are useless. Which leads me to my final point.
Your request to see a comparison is because you want to know if there is a significant reason to obtain the Z lenses or if you could happy using the adapter. And that my friend, is something only you can answer. And really that comes down to, are you successfully capturing the images that you want to capture with the gear that you already have. If you are, then there ya go, no need to invest in the new lenses quite yet. If you feel like the gear is not preforming well enough, then look into the new lenses. Like you explained for the F mount lenses, you don't need to upgrade all 3 at the same time. Lenses can outlast camera bodies for a long time, so just take it slow and enjoy the journey. Also, sometimes Nikon offers deals where you can buy a lens and get a loan and the loan will be 0% interest for 24 months. So you will have a monthly payment, but it helps break up that cost over several months and you don't end up paying anymore for it as long as you pay it off in 2 years.
I hope this has been helpful, I know it isn't what you were looking for necessarily, but I try to be helpful any way I can. So let me know if there is anything else you might be interested in!
@@AaronSpieler Thanks for the feedback and the insight on Z mount characteristics. Makes a lot of sense. For now, I will still hold on to my F mount lenses as I still enjoy shooting with my D4s. The trinity lens set work flawlessly so far with my Z9 through the FTZ II. I was curious if there would be significant improvement in the image. Thank you.
Of course! Again, I'm sorry that I couldn't be more help and do those tests. I'd imagine someone has done them out there. I would imagine for a vast majority of situations that the F mount image quality is just fine. Happy shooting!
The d4s was one of the best cameras I ever owned. While mine is currently a paperweight, I had (technically still have) an aging stable of d4 bodies that I've been using up until about a month ago. One stop had an electrical problem, one had autofocusing issues, and a shutter blade fell off my good one. I got a z9 to replace it.
Comparison wise, it is clearly better than the D4 and reminds me more of my D4s. Having used the D4 and D4s for an extended period of time, the D4s wasn't incremental in its performance from the d4. It was far better in low light, far better autofocuser (especially with af-g), and the video was usable.
The z9 is a great evolution from that low light is amazing, the autofocus is very accurate and snappy, and the transition was comfortable in a way that trying a Sony or canon wasn't. It's hard to gauge the difference an image quality. Obviously the z9 has much higher resolution images, but the color science is very similar between the D4s and the z9. Much more similar then the difference between the D3 and d4. The z9 has uglier noise but it's way easier to pull out than on the D4 or D4s. It'd be worth renting one to see if you would want to switch...
I did buy the FTZ adapter, instead of replacing all my native lenses (I did buy one native lens though) and I didn't notice any drop in performance. In fact I think the images from my 14-24mm look better out of the z9 than the DSLRs...
I disagree. I have the Z9 and Z8 since these came out. To me, the smaller battery (800 shots VS 6000) is huge, no GPS, No Pre-shot butter for birds, and two different cards is silly for a bird photographer. That is why I'm selling the Z8 and buying another Z9H (in a few months). The only advantage of the Z8 over the Z9 is that it is smaller. I'm waiting for a -very small- Z6 III as my back-up.
I have also had both since they came out (a few months after release). The Z9 has obviously seen a larger jump in improvement over the course of some incredible firmware updates. They chose to give the Z8 a head start by starting it off pretty much caught up with the Z9 in many ways. With that said, I'll rebuttable a bit on what you said.
I would agree with you when it comes to the battery, however having the vertical grip option with the Z8 which allows for 2 EN-EL15c batteries is a great option for most people. Not only does this give you more battery life than one EN-EL18d battery (Z9), but it gives you the option to not always have a vertical grip to deal with. I do believe that EN-EL18d batteries can give off more power, so I don't know if two EN-EL15c batteries will actually surpass the 18d in a real world test, but at least on paper this option makes them extremely similar.
I also agree with the GPS issue, I love having it. Although, I would say this is definitely a pro feature though and is unnecessary for a majority of people that would be considering buying a Z8.
As of the time of this comment, the Z9 is on FW 4.1 and the Z8 is on FW 1.01. They have the same AF subject detection options despite the Z8 not having a dedicated bird option. But regardless of the AF detect option that is selected, both offer the same Pre-Release Capture options (I believe this is what you are referring to). So in your testing, have you noticed the Z8 significantly under preform when using Pre-Release Capture with the animal AF detect selected compared to the Z9? There is also a chance that they will add bird detect to the Z8 at some point.
When it comes to having 2 different card slots, I completely agree with you. That is why I touched on it in this video as a serious issue, especially from a professional shooter stand point. The bottle neck that an SD card will create for both video and photo is what, in my opinion, truly separates the Z9 at this point. This is very much true when shooting back to back 20fps RAW burst, you will hit that buffer much quicker on the SD card.
Now, you lost me with the Z6 III comment. So you would give up all the great things about the Z8, considering you already have it, in favor of a down grade? As a wildlife photographer, this seems like an odd choice. The Z6 III will probably still have 2 different card slots, a BSI CMOS sensor rather than a stacked sensor, a 24 MP sensor, and the same battery as the Z8. I doubt it will have the FPS that the Z8 has, or bird detect. I'm guessing it will be more focused on video at this point. Or are you saying that you will just have 2 Z9's and then a Z6 III as a third round back up?
My backup is the Z7II with my Z9. Love the GPS and sync to my phone and computer.
I love my Z9 with the two CF Exp B cards. Knowing you have a suitable backup or additional storage location is a peace of mind. My second shooter is the Z7II for light weight portability.
I do too. And honestly, like I touched on in the video, that is the main reason for the Z9 overall. Yes, it is still a "better" camera when you look at every single feature. But few people need every single feature. So for most people it won't matter to have dual type B, but I think for anyone doing professional work, it is definitely something to consider
I enjoyed watching this video. It sounded like someone who actually knows what he's talking about, unlike many other "pro" RUclips photographers and videographers. Thanks for this informative video. I really appreciate it.
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words 🙏 I really like these cameras and the results I can get out of them, but they aren't perfect by any means. I try to be a voice of reason and help people be informed accurately about these products.
Good video ! I own both the Z8 and Z9, and there are other minor differences besides the ones you mentioned. The Z8, with the battery grip, looks pretty ugly and makes the whole camera bigger (taller) than the Z9. I find that one fully charged battery on the Z9 seems to last longer than 2 EN-EL15c on the Z8. The body material is actually different in the Z9, making it more tough, and much better for dissipating heat. And, since I own the Z180-600mm lens, it seems to focus just a hair faster on the Z9, perhaps due to the bigger battery, or better focusing motor. The Z8 is great and I love it, but the Z9 is the real pro here.
I'll respond individually just to make it easier haha
So I agree that any grip attachment is a downside. While they are incredibly similar in size and weight and that point, I agree that the Z8 is bigger. It also isn't as weather sealed and now you have to have 4, 6, or 8 batteries instead of 1,2 or 3. And possibly more chargers and all that. That is why I tried to stress that point that if you believe vertical shooting is important to you, a built in vertical grip is much nicer than you might realize. Now that I have had one, I don't want to go back, especially with long lenses.
I was unaware that the body material is different as Nikon claims that they are the same. Now the way all the internals are laid out has to be different, and that very well can help with heat. With that said, I have used both in the same situations and have never had over heating issues with either. At least at 4k 60p in Pro Res HQ shooting. I don't shoot in RAW, files are too big and I don't need it. The cards will say they are hot occasionally, but then I just open the side door and it's all good. But I would imagine the Z 9 is still better at heat dissipation.
The longest lens I have is the 70-200 2.8, and I haven't found a difference yet in focusing speed or accuracy. But at those longer lengths, I'll take your word for it haha.
I thought pixel shift would be added to the Z9 at some point, since it's in the Z8 firmware. A Nikon rep said that the Z9 probably could not do pixel shift because the sensor stabilization is a little different than the Z8/Zf.
The Z8 with the vertical grip is about 0.5 inches (~1.5cm) taller than the Z9.
While older EN-EL15 batteries can be used in the Z8, I think only the EN-EL15c allows USB-PD charging in-camera.
That's interesting to hear about the stabilization in the Z9. And as far as USB-C charging on the Z8, the 15b, 15c, and 3rd party batteries all charge with mine. But my buddy with a Zf is saying that he has to have the 15C for it to charge. I guess Nikon changed something with the Zf, but I don't really understand all of that.
@@AaronSpieler It's interesting that the 15b battery charges in the Z8. I thought it did not have the circuitry for in-camera charging.
I haven't done the research myself,,, But it is my understanding the the z9 is much tougher and has a much better weather sealing than the z8 and maybe that's a reason why the z9 is that much more expensive?
the Z9 is probably a little more robust considering it is all one piece. and the weather sealing does seem to be a little better from a visual inspection. but i would find it hard to believe that those two things would justify the 1500 dollar difference. I believe the Z9 is marketed to pros and the Z8 was an attempt to market to the prosummer market by making the body "non pro" style by removing the grip. I honestly don't really know why the price is different.
One more difference i have found on these 2 cameras...z9 has 14.4 stops of dynamic range where z8 has 14.2 stops of dynamic 6....checked on dxo mark
Thank you for brining that up. Diving into the spec numbers like that is not something that I have done yet for either of these cameras. With that said, I wanted to stick to the points that I felt would be most relevant for why someone would purchase either of the cameras. While the Z9 is slightly better in their tests, they both have a 98 overall sensor score. Do you believe that the .2 different in DR would sway your purchasing decision? Honest question.
Coming in a few months late to comment in this - I shot 38 weddings this year with the Z8 and Z9 combo. Z9 definitely performs better in low light. It’s mostly noticeable in REALLY bad lighting situations. I noticed it most in dark barn settings. Noise and auto white balance performance were worse on the Z8 in those extreme situations.
38 is impressive. We have shot 8 with both of them now and I haven't noticed a big difference in performance aside from overheating and battery life which is of no surprise. But the Z8 has never stopped shooting do to heat, just will pop up saying that the card is hot. But the firmware 1.01 update said that it fixed an issue where that warning would pop up prematurely. Since upgrading the firmware, I haven't seen that warning pop up. I can't find anything that officially states this, but I shoot at 4000 iso in low light and it seems to be a second native iso. It looks super clean in post and the auto focus is super impressive. Both with 1.8 and 2.8 lenses on both cameras. I can't speak to the auto wb as we set wb manually for each shot. At this point, the only thing that would make me get another z9 over z8 is battery life and ergonomics, but that is based on my personal experience with both cameras thus far
Yeah, to be totally honest the times when I've noticed a difference between the two cameras were when I was in REALLY terrible conditions and I had to put the ISO up way higher than 4000. Just 3 weeks ago I shot a wedding inside a tiny, wood-lined hall. The ceilings were comically low and it was very crowded. OCF was impossible so I had to shoot everything with ambient light until the dance floor opened up. I spent most of the day between 8000-12800. Properly exposed on both bodies and the Z9 images came out perfectly fine but the Z8 images looked terrible. Barely usable. @@AaronSpieler
So if i PRIMARILY shoot wildlife (fast moving birds sometimes) AND i want a GOOOOD sharp tracking (eyes ... etc) AF system .... which one would you recommend ?
To just get to the point, the Z9. This is because at the time of this comment, the Z9 has bird AF detect while the Z8 does not. Now, the Z8 will still pick up birds with the animal AF detect selected, but in theory, the Z9 will still preform better. Now to be clear, I have not personally tested this, so I am not sure if it really makes a difference. Also, the Z8 may get a FW update that includes bird AF at some point.
Lastly, if you are not already invested in the Z system, you will probably get better results overall from Sony. But I do believe Nikon has the best overall mirrorless system at this time for the money. Also, Nikon has some stellar lenses that sets it apart from the competition and camera bodies will only get better and better.
Hope this helps!
Update !! The Z8 2.0 firmware just leep frogged the Z 9 4.0 update . Time to revisit these differences 😅
I'm nor sure it leap frogged it, but yes, it does have the pixel shift which is pretty sweet. Been trying it out. I'd be surprised if the Z9 doesn't get it at some point as well. I'd also imagine a Z9 mark 2 is in the works for the Paris Olympics
@@AaronSpieler I meant in terms of software it has . The Z 9 is a big brick of a camera , it’s fine for professionals but let’s face it if your doing a street shoot with a model who wants to lug that that around with an 85 1.2 on it haha . I can shoot all day with the z 8 and one extra battery and never used two ever ! You just have to have the habit of not leaving camera on for long periods without shooting .
Can your clients actually tell whether you shot in a raw format? If so, are you using the right camera? Nikon and Canon (perhaps excepting the R5C) are designed for stills photography, but they have pretty decent video capabilities.
I don't do video, though I have some training in it. I do stills photography, and I have quite the collection of cameras. I think all of them have been discontinued. I think upgrading my skills matters more than upgrading my cameras. One of my cameras is a (just discontinued) Lumix S1R. I bought it to replace my eos 5Ds because I can make photos with it that I cannot make with any Canon (or Nikon or Sony) camera.
I see so many photographers upgrading to the newest version of their camera despite the camera having nothing new _and_ useful. Another of my cameras is a Lumix GH5s. It comes with V-Log installed, can shoot video until the cards are full, can record 10-bit video at 4K. I discovered at its maximum video quality it can fill its cards in 42 minutes. It was superseded by the GH5 Mark II and GH6.
First, to answer your initial questions, there are some factors on if someone could tell if it was shot in RAW. The only way someone would be able to tell is if the final export was in 12-bit color depth/color space and then have a monitor that can display 12-bit color. DVDs are 8-bit and BluRay is 10-bit. Everything online is either 8 or 10 bit and usually in a rec.709 color space so that videos online can be viewed by as many screens as possible worldwide. If you record N-RAW with N-Log color space, you will be color correcting/grading the footage anyways so that leads me to the next point. Recording in RAW video is really only beneficial from a video editing stand point, not really for the final product for a vast majority of people and projects. Just like RAW photos, RAW video allows video editors and color graders more correcting and creative latitude in post production. For me personally, I'm already invested into the Nikon ecosystem and I wanted to ability to shoot in 4k 60 and 120 fps without a crop. As someone that does so professional video for clients, I decided that this was a priority. So the Z9 was purchased originally because it can do that and more. The Z8 was purchased because I didn't need another Z9, but it still has the same recording abilities so that gives us continuity while shooting.
I also do photography professionally and you would have a hard time finding better photo cameras than the Z8 and Z9 right now for a lot of different shooting scenarios. Not to say that they are perfect or that there aren't other good cameras, but these 2 are really good.
Like in photography, the main thing that will change the look of your photos and videos is your lenses. I also agree that working on your skills is far more important than buying new gear. I will not recommend people buying new gear just for the sake of having the newest thing. Gear absolutely matters, when there is a valid reason to have it and you know how to maximize its abilities.
Lastly, the Z8 and Z9 both have a 125min record limit, but how long you can record in total obviously is dictated by card size, codec, frame rate and resolution, so it just depends.
Hope this answers your questions! Thanks for the comment
Z8 takes the same battery as Z6II en-el15C. Z6 takes en-el15B. I used third party batteries with Z6. When I switched to Z6II it turned out they didn't work with newer body.
Very interesting, I have never used 3rd party batteries so that's good to know. Thanks for sharing!
I have both cameras, they're both great, but the z9 is more robust in terms of heat and humidity. The z8 is very robust for what it is, but I've over heated it and I've had the humidity get into the z8 but not the z9 on the same day in the same place. Most people don't need a z9, but this is the biggest difference for a professional IMHO.
I have not had the Z8 over heat on me yet, just have gotten the warning on the screen. I also don't know how much of a difference the high temp cutout does, but I know that firmware version 1.01 states "Changed the timing of the high-temperature warnings appearing when the camera’s internal temperature increases mainly during video recording." So I do believe the Z9 is better with heat, my theory is where the battery is physically located on both cameras makes the difference, but that is pure speculation. Other than that, I have been able to use the cameras interchangeably. The Z9 does feel better to me in the hands and definitely has that pro feel. I use the vertical grip All. The. Freakin. Time. I love it. But does it justify the extra 1500 when you can attach a grip for less money on the Z8, probably not for most people. I know it has some other exclusive features as well, but I think your take is accurate. Glad Nikon did it though. Not sure it makes the most since to make them so similar, but as a consumer I like it.
So could the focus issues I'm having with the Z8 have anything to do with the cards writings at different speeds? What exactly do you mean by bottleneck can you explain this further please? Shooting at 60fps or slower results in very few if at all sharp shots. I shoot surfing at far distances and the only way to get sharp shots is to shoot at 20 or 30fps.
I will start by elaborating on what I mean by there being a bottleneck. The primary memory card slot on the Z 8 is designed for a CF Express Type B memory card. Like any memory card, multiple brands make these cards and with different speeds. I personally use the Pro Grade Cobalt cards which are the top of the line cards. They have a max read speed of 1700 MB/s and a max write speed of 1500 MB/s. The higher the number, the longer the camera can take photos before hitting a buffer where it has to slow down to be able to write all of those photos to the memory card. I also use the Pro Grade Cobalt SD card in the secondary memory card slot on my Z 8. Again, speeds can vary quite a bit, but these in particular have a max read speed of 300 MB/s and a max write speed of 250 MB/s. There are a few that go up to 260, 270, and 280 for the write speed, but these are all incredibly slow compared to what CF Express Type B can do.
With that established, if you are shooting to both cards simultaneously with the back up option selected in the photo shooting menu, the SD card will ALWAYS hit a buffer before the CF Express card do to the slower write speeds of the SD card. For a vast majority of people, this is not an issue and to be honest, 250 MB/s is still very fast for burst photos. But for a professional sports or wildlife photographer that may be in a situation that they need to do several bursts back to back to back to back, this bottleneck could potentially present an issue. As I mentioned in the video, I like have the dual CF Express in the Z 9 because that allows me to switch between the cards seamlessly while shooting video if one of the cards has an issue. The Z 8 and Z 9 have identical shooting modes for video, same sensor as well, but not all of those video modes can be shot on the SD card of the Z 8.
As far as the focusing issues that you are having, I don't believe the card speeds would directly impact the auto focusing capabilities. I could be wrong, but these systems are separate from each other. I am not sure how you are shooting at 51 fps, but one possible explanation would be if your shutter speed is too close to the fps you are shooting. But I am assuming that you are at pretty fast shutter speeds if you are shooting surfing. My other question would be lens choice? Are you adapting your lenses? Are they entry level lenses? I noticed a pretty big jump in image quality when I went from the 24-200 lens to the 70-200 lens when shooting fast moving objects. Assuming those aren't any of the issues, I would recommend making sure that your settings are dialed in. Both of these cameras can only shoot RAW up to 20 fps, anything over that is a JPG image. I would make sure the Active D lighting and high ISO NR are both turned off for sport shooting. I would recommend only using back focusing with AF-C on of course. In the custom settings menu, under A6, make sure that is set to AF-ON only and just use the AF-ON button for focusing. If you try to use the shutter, there could be delays in auto focus between bursts as you reacquire focus. Under A3 in your custom settings menu, this has to do with focus tracking, I would make sure you have that set to Erratic for subject motion. I don't personally use this, but it might be worth trying.
I know this was long winded, but I always give more info and you can take the parts that you need. I hope this was helpful. I would be willing to help you further if you keep having issues or want to clarify anything else. I hope you are able to start getting better results because the camera really is spectacular. Lastly, I have reread your comment a few times while responding and I believe you are talking about photos, but I would like to just make sure that you aren't referring to video in this case? Just want to double check.
@@AaronSpieler Thanks so much this was very helpful Aaron! I didn't mean to write 51fps, I actually meant to write 20fps sorry about that! For now, until the Z 180-600 hits the stores, I'm stuck using my adapted Nikkor 200-500 f/5.6, which btw suck for fast panning! Otherwise this lens seems to perform much better with Z8 than with the D850! I use both the CF Express type B card with the SDXC UHS -II card. Read speed 300MB's write speed 260Mb's on the SD card. I miss understood you so today I didn't use the SD in back up but switched to overflow.
@@AaronSpieler I very rarely shoot long bursts so I'm thinking this issue won't really affect me too much right? Aaron can you explain why I seem to get a very low hit rate shooting at 15fps? Not just that but I'm seeing a lot of motion blur at that frame rate? Even when shooting people at close range I still get a low hit rate. At 30fps I seem to get 85 to 90 % hit rate and at 20fpos 80% are good but I'm seeing a lot of motion blur and even the ones that are sharp aren't tack sharp. The sweet spot for shooting surfing at the far distances with this z8 seems to be 1/2000 f/8 ISO 400-500, area mode wide, People detect, back button focus, larger focus box, DX mode, VR on normal, 20&30 fps. I really wish I could bet a better hit rate at 15fps to avoid having so many files at the end of the day. I actually bought the Z8 because I wanted a quality hybrid camera that allows me to pull his res sills from the video. I did a couple video's you can see on my facebook wall facebook.com/noa.napoleon.3
@@AaronSpieler Sorry, one more question: any idea why the CF Express cards seem to stick slightly in the camera when you pull them out? Actually the Delkin Black CF Express type B sticks too for some reason? Are on facebook? I subscribed to your RUclips channel looking around there for helpful hints about this Z8! I haven't been shooting for that long so a lot of the techy stuff goes way over my head! Thanks again for the help!
Ooops sorry one more question about video: If I shoot in 4K 60 fps and export in 4k 60fps using Capcut, am I actually getting 4K in the final product? Sorry so many dumb questions! I just started doing vids so I'm really totally lost!
The difference between the cameras is the Market?
The target consumer is definitely different between the two cameras. The Z9 is targeted at pros that are getting paid for higher end and more demanding jobs. The Z8 took so much of what made the Z9 great and was put in a more affordable body, although still not cheap by any means.
Differences are small. Probably the housing of the Z 9 is seriously more expensive. Also, Nikon may have some licensing strategy where they make certain functions available in one price range but not another. The Z 9 will have a different "motherboard" and chipset surrounding sensor and EXPEED 7 processor. The camera needs all the real estate (area and volume) for it to be able to run at top speed until the memory card is full - without overheating.
As to the batteries, note that the milli.Amp.hours do not reflect "energy" as you need "Watt.hours" (or kilo.Watt.hours or Watt.seconds or Joules) for that.
EN-EL18d: 10.8V, 3300mAh > 35.64 Wh
EN-EL15c: 7V, 2280mAh > 16.42 Wh
I'm sure the Z 9 body is more expensive to make. And there are some things about it that do make it more "durable", but the Z 8 is so similar when it comes to build quality. Having the vertical grip built in from a physical stand point is so nice for action/wildlife shooting when switching back and forth between landscape and portrait happens so quickly. So if that is primarily what you shoot, having it built in is nice. Attaching a grip to the Z 8 will definitely change its durability to an extent, but for most people that would get the Z 8 over the Z 9 this wouldn't really be an issue I would imagine.
I have gotten the hot card warning on the Z 8 a couple times back when it was on firmware 1.0, but it never cutoff on me and the camera itself never said it was hot. And firmware 1.01 addressed an issue when the hot card warning would come on prematurely and ever since updating it, I haven't gotten the warning again. So while physics dictate that the Z 9 has to be better when it comes to heat dissipation, I personally have not found this to be an issue with the Z 8.
For the batteries, are you saying the EN-EL18d batteries deliver more power overall to the Z 9 than the 18c batteries can deliver to the Z 8?
@@AaronSpieler - nice and thanks for going in depth. The Z 9 IMO, today, only is relevant to video production houses, wealthy birders, and paparazzi shooting with very long lenses. The hot card warning could be due to your choice of card more than the camera, actually. Try Delkin 1TB (Gen 4) CFexpress cards - the best. Extreme number of P/E cycles [1]. As you can see from my calculation (Watt = V *A ) the EN-EL18 has double the energy of the EN-EL15.
I would however bring a powerbank and USB cable that can relay (say) 100W. Note that USB -C cables come in all sorts of specs and some of them are worthless in that they may be able to slowly charge mobile phone. Others can shift data at Thunderbolt Gen 4 speed and charge at 100W or more.
[1] P/E cycles define the card's life expectancy in rewrites at the block level. A Samsung EVO SSD may get to maybe 300 and a PRO to maybe 1000. The Delkin card - I e-mailed with them a year ago - 30,000. If a manufacturer specifies the life expectancy they may use another unit: TBW - Total Bytes Written. If you divide TBW by storage capacity then you have Program/Erase cycles. If a manufacturer does not (want to) specify TBW or P/E cycles, then it's probably a lousy number that makes your cheap card very expensive.
If you use 2 EN-EL15c batteries in the vertical grip on the Z8, would that give you more power than the 18d?
I have been using the ProGrade Cobalt cards with both cameras, including the SD version in the Z8 and have been very happy with them. I know the CFeB 4.0 cards look pretty sweet, but you clearly understand more of the tech specs of them than I do.
@@AaronSpieler - 2x EN-EL15c give less Watt.hour than the EN-EL18d, so the short of it is "no". As the "18" runs a higher Voltage, it may run (parts in) the Z 9 camera at a higher Voltage too and in that case, it may burn through its Watt.hours faster than two EN-EL15c in the Z 8. A PowerBank with power-delivery smartness that is compatible with the Z 8 would however be a good alternative. Just make sure to connect a cable that can relay the Watts for fast charging or powering the camera.
@@AaronSpieler - SD are cheap but a speed limitation to the camera. The dual slot Z cameras know that in their firmware and do not allow certain use of both slots at te same time.
ProGrade Cobalt would be on my shortlist and the differences in there are small. But my Delkin choice was driven by extreme P/E cycle specs and being Gen 4, plus their people were great to communicate with.
I'm coming from the D850 with battery grip. I knew the Z8 has literally the same technical and image quality related features as the Z9, but the battery grip for the Z8 is ugly and makes the camera as expensive as the Z9. So I got me a Z9, as I need the grip for my work.
If you know you are going to want/need a grip a lot, I would go with the Z 9 as well. Last time I looked, it is still cheaper to go Z 8 w/grip, but there are definitely some draw backs
You missed the most critical difference. The Z9 has a full magnesium body that will not overheat when shooting high data rate video like 8K NRAW. The Z8 only has a magnesium base plate & its smaller body & carbon fiber construction does not dissipate heat the same as the Z9 does. The Z8 would shut down in a continuous shooting situation while the Z9 will not, with the caveat that outdoors in direct sunlight it likely would at some point. If I were a wedding photographer...a scenario you actually described but related to the card...I would be very leery of trying to shoot video of the ceremony with a Z8. Other shooting scenarios that could be problematic...a video documentary where you're having to run with continuous shooting, or a sporting event. Basically anything where you can't simply stop the video & then start again would be problematic for the Z8.
Since making that video, I haven't had an issue with either camera over heating. I will get the hot card warning, but that's it. And I didn't mention the body make up differences since that is a pretty niche area of interest. My goal with the video was to help buyers that want the Z 9, but feel it is too expensive and were wondering if the Z 8 would work. For sure there are still differences that make the Z 9 better, but for a majority of consumers, those aren't the things that make it worth the extra 1500. But your points are valid
@@AaronSpieler Since the Z9 is a video-centric mirrorles camera made for professionals, I would assume most people willing to drop $5500 on one are working pros who will use it for video work primarily. That is its niche. The Z8 has been over-stated as the little brother that can do everything the Z9 can do, but imagine finding out that you needed it to shoot weddings but it might die in the middle of the ceremony. The heat issue to me is a huge problem & removes it from consideration for anyone who needs to be certain they can shoot continuously for more than a few minutes. Given that I could make up the cost differential on a single job, it's a no-brainer to get the Z9 for me.
To each their own I suppose. My Z 8 has given me very little issues for what I use it for, including any overheating. I still take my 9 over the 8, but it certainly isn't necessary for a vast majority of cases.
Auto capture on the z9 with the latest firmware?
This is true, but I left that out on purpose because it is firmware based. I wanted to stick to the aspects that are not changeable so to speak. When Nikon released the details on the 4.0 update, they did claim the Z 8 would get auto capture in the future. They have since removed that little detail which I admit is odd and a bit frustrating, but I do believe there is a chance that the Z 8 will get it eventually. With that said, the Z 9 does have it now and there is not guarantee that the Z 8 will get it. So if that is a very key feature to your workflow, then the Z 9 would be worth it for the time being.
@@AaronSpieler fair enough, though I suspect that Nikon will be looking to differentiate between the two. Battery life and weight being the two biggest differences aren't enough to justify the price difference :)
I've been trying to decide between a Z8 and a Z9 for my next camera, and although autocapture might be very useful for bird photography, it isn't actually going to be a deal breaker and tbh - here in the UK it's possible to get a z9 as a grey import - fully guaranteed from a reputable website as well - for less than a Z8 at the moment, so its a bit of a no brainer.
I do think that having 1 CF Express slot and 1 SD slot is the biggest difference that will seperate the two cameras in the long run. From a professional stand point, the draw backs of the SD slot are a problem. That was ultimately my main point by making this video. So for nearly everyone, the Z 8 is the obvious choice. But having dual CF Express does make a big difference for certain professional jobs. It still begs the question though, why are the cameras 1500 dollars different? I'm honestly not sure.
No GPS in the Z8
Very true. I chose not to include it in this video since it isn't a feature that most people would consider a "make it or break it" factor when considering either of these cameras. With that said, the built in GPS is great!
I have the Z8 and I really miss GPS, coming from Pentax. I know I can use Snapbridge, but I would prefer a hardware solution. Do you know of one? @@AaronSpieler
The Z9 is better .
I mean...duh...
It’s heavier too , haha
That's a pro
Its very obvious why both cameras are very similar.
Do you mind sharing your thoughts?
@@AaronSpieler as they say, i dont need to explain what is already understood. For 95% of people the z8 is still the better choice. especially if you are looking at portability and still use.
While I agree with you, you still haven't explained why both cameras are similar. Emphasis on the why.
Nikon z9 is much better than z8. Z8 has heating issues.
You're right, that makes it much better...
Good job subbed and belled
What do you mean?
@@AaronSpieler subscribed and belled(meaning i get your notifications of every video, just supporting your content) 🙂
🥹 Thank you so much! That seems like an obvious phrase now haha. I really appreciate it! Any content you are interested in seeing?
The information is ok, but it is not possible to listen to the Positive playing monkey in the background.
I'm not sure what you are talking about?
k .. 2 mins in i'm done with the f music. like why? if I wanted music I wouldn't be trying to listen to you!
subscribe = Nope!
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