In The Mind Of A Villain: Shane from The Walking Dead
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- In this entry we’ll be taking a closer look at the mind of Shane from The Walking Dead, as played by Jon Bernthal.
Thanks for stopping by. If you have any feedback or suggestions feel free to let me know below!
#evil #villains #thewalkingdead
About the hospital scene tho. I always viewed him knowing Rick is alive but wasnt able to carry him out. The only way rick was able to live was to barricade the door and let him stay hooked on the iv. Telling Lori thats Rick is dead because it was wayy more probable then him surviving.
Not to mention it may have also been the only way she would leave to go to Atlanta at the time. How many people were lost, because they refused to leave a loved one at the hospital?
Something we.will never know.
@@kevinfox500 Indeed. Lori would probabluy risk going back for Rick if she knew that there was a chance of him surviving. I get why Shane told her he was dead. She would probably risk everything, even Carl for getting Rick out.
@@bm337 fully agree. If it was my wife or daughter, I'd walk back, barefoot, over broken glass to get there, if there was a chance they were alive.
That's IF I left.
@@kevinfox500 that and the military 1000% would have killed him and Rick had he tried it. He wouldn't have been able to escape unseen had he attempted to carry a full grown man out with him.
@@shadowwolf9909 Yeah, their first assumption would have been that Rick is infected. Wouldn't end well for either of them.
I’m sure “Dave” was extremely stunned.
So was Glenn, he was standing behind and slightly to the right of Dave.
Rip Dave
I LEGIT WAS LIKE "DAVE?!"
@@quintontyler7390 same lmfao
Stopped watching when he said Dave
I really appreciated that you called him CORAL and not Carl :)
Man Lori was something else , always up in Ricks ear then she goes & tells Shane about the baby . She’s the real villain
I have always said this!
I have always despised Lori.
*LORI WAS ALWAYS THE VILLAIN*
Her actress was the same on *PRISON BREAK!*
The evil of gaslighting
Wrong. Skyler white is the real villain
I personally can't even fault Shane for leaving Rick in the hospital. In that moment Shane needed to move fast. Rick probably weighed 150-170 depending on weight loss while in the hospital. Shane would've made it 2 ft out of that room before a soldier spotted Shane slowly carrying a grown man. Or a walker could've easily got the drop on him while focusing on Rick. And that would doom Lori and Carl. I think he did his best with what he had and in doing so was able to protect Ricks family.
Agreed. While I suggested he might have been able to try saving Rick, at around the 3min mark my conclusion on that scene was that we simply have to give Shane the benefit of the doubt; he did what he thought was best in a no-win situation.
Also , even if Shane got Rick out and back to the camp or where ever Lori and Carl were , there was a chance he (Rick) would of died anyway. Shane was stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Yea totally I mean you see how distraught Shane is when he realizes he can’t save Rick I mean Rick wasn’t waking up Shane tried his absolute best. Probably more than most peoples best friend would
@@inthemindofavillain I'd argue that leaving Rick was objectively right. They both would have died if Shane tried carrying him out of there. Albeit a slim one, Rick at least had a chance of survival by being hid away, and it ended up paying off. It was the only thing Shane could've done that made sense and wouldn't have effectively been suicide.
Shane didn't beat Ed as "he (Ed) was ABOUT to hit his wife again." He literally hits her before Shane steps in. Definitely justified and well deserved, Shane had been very soft and respectful with him before, like the fire incident, so he needed to be put in his place for once. Ed didn't deserve any amiable correction. He needed something to fear because he wasn't rational nor willing to respect the rules
7:35 A lot of people like to forget and/or write off that before Shane kills Otis, Shane tells him to go on without him. He knew only one of them would get away and he was willing to let it be Otis, but Otis refused him, so Shane decided he had to kill him instead. Character is very complex
All of that was just his paranoia. Both of them would made it out alive. He was beating the poor guy on the one spot for the entire half of a minute dammit!
@maccheesey2746 If true (no offense) that makes so much fucking sense, I feel as if Shane knew who he was and how he would turn out (roughly) in the apocalypse. Almost as if he gets in his mind regretting almost killing himself for a "nobody" .
It fits his character. Shane is all about "if you can make the tough choices." When Otis couldn't make the tough decision to leave him behind, he knew that he was weak and decided he didn't have what it takes, so he shot him and left him behind.
@@Zvláštníčlověk3171 thats cap they were both slowed
@@maccheesey2746 Shane had his leg injured and Otis was fatigued, that's true, but in the flashback, you can see both of them doing a good job, being further from the horde than the've fallen. The number of the ammos doesn't matter, it only adds more walkers. You can't shake this one off dude. Only thing Shane was not responsible, was his paranoia he had from the moment he met his love's husband back in the camp. Paranoia is (believe it or not) strenghtening the ill mental state. Does it make sense? Yes or no?
I think the hospital scene wasn’t him being a villain. I think he was too stressed, scared and panicked to properly evaluate the situation. I think his brain wasn’t getting all the information correctly and he couldn’t think clearly. So he did what he thought was best.
I rly believe that he thought Rick died and just didn't want his best friends corpse to be eaten by walkers
Ed definitely wasn’t referring to Shane’s gun when he said “go on pull it out” he was telling Carol to take the log out of the fire which is why she did immediately after Ed saying that
Shane really got dealt a rough hand here, I’ve always sympathized with him. The second Rick (his best friend, mind you), came back, Lori became borderline cruel in every interaction with him, as if he could have possibly known. IMO it’s because Lori doesn’t want to have to think about it or live with it, now that her family is back together. But you can’t tell me Shane wasn’t coming into a father figure like role for Carl, as well as getting very close with Lori (I assume, we don’t see much emotional depth to their relationship but I think it happens offscreen.
Shane probably felt comfortable, maybe even some kind of happy. I think it’s implied that he was more or less leading the group, more democratically than Rick would later run it, and Ithink he probably had some kind of sense of importance and purpose.
And then his best friend is back, basically from the dead, and before he even gets to process his feelings about all of this, Lori is turning cold and cruel to protect herself from thinking about it. I can only imagine what a rollercoaster of emotion it would be to find yourself in these circumstances.
Not only has his defacto family unit been pulled out from under him like it might as well have never existed, that will hurt your feelings wherever there’s an apocalypse or not.
Add to that, that (albeit unbeknownst to Rick), Rick just walks up and completely disassembles any semblance of normality our routine that Shane has been building.
The rest of the group basically accepting Rick as the leader, when I’m sure Shane saw himself that way, is just the cherry on top. And I think he still behaves reasonably for a while before he starts getting dark.
I know some people see him as kind of a bully, or a hothead, both of which are fair assessments, but I don’t think he’s at all mean spirited. He was basically the leader before Rick came back, and he continuously struggles to find a new place to fit in along the group dynamic, for basically the rest of his life.
I think his anger is more of frustration than hate or malice. He’s trying to tell Rick what he needs to know to be able to survive, because he loves him, and Lori and Carl and probably the rest of the group to an extent. I think he’s mad the way a parent might sound mad, sternly and loudly telling their kid not to put his hand on the stove, you know? It’s done with love. Shane loves these people and has to watch Rick hesitate or make decisions that lead to his friends and family dying, when Shane knows better, and says so, but is continuously dismissed.
Man I don’t think anyone could take the emotional burden of all of that, on top of the literal apocalypse and be expected not to crumble and fall apart.
This is really such a well written show. I’d say Shane is one of the most compelling antagonists in television history, period.
Almost like a reverse anti-hero, he’s like an anti-villain. I could have watched him act the fuck out of this character for the entire length of the series.
Ultimately I think staying with this group doomed him. I wish he had gone away, for his sake and storytelling’s sake. The idea of Shane falling in with another group and sometimes crossing paths with his old group, would have been a really interesting angle
Agreed, Shane has many valid points, which are somewhat justified in retrospect in light of Rick's character in subsequent seasons. Future Rick and S2 Shane would've been great allies.
I'd love for them to do that with Shane character. Then have it end with him joining the group
Having Shane pop in a few seasons later as a villain or having him save the group somehow would have amazing. I loved his character ever since I was a little kid watching on tv. I’m not a hotheaded person at all nor am I aggressive unless I need to be so I’m not sure why I’ve always resonated with his character.
The problem with this assessment is that most everybody DID agree with Shane, except he decided to do things in the most hotheaded way possible when if he had just spoken like a normal person, everyone would've listened. Herschel is the only character who legitimately disagreed with Shane, and Shane would've been just fine if he didn't decide to try and kill Rick so he could have Lori to himself. Shane was his own downfall, everyone else actually tried giving him many chances and he blew it.
Tbf to Lori, Shane did lie about Rick being dead. If he had told the truth everything would have gone better. Without being out of character, Shane telling his truth would have been something like:
"I don't know, he had vitals before the electricity went off, I checked for a heartbeat after but couldn't hear one, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything, there was gunfire, explosions in the distance, and he was comatosed. I had to leave, but I shut his door and barricaded it as best I could before soldiers and walkers drove me off, just in case he was still alive."
Instead he chose to say Rick was definitely dead and started banging his traumatized wife.
imo shane was just way more realistic than rick in the 1st season
He was just based
Rick tried to hold out hope, a man wanting to be with his family and bargain vs fighting… Shane was just ahead in knowing the broken world
How so? Rick was thrust into an unimaginable world, obviously he needed time to adapt
Not really...Rick Evolved, as They All Did, but with Better Ethics & Kept The Group Alive.. Robert Kirkman himself has said if Shane lived, he would've k*d Off The Entire Group, except Lori & Carl...
Wym realistic?
To this date, Shane is my favorite character. He knew what they world was coming to and was the the first person ready to adapt.
I wondered if Shane and Lori had something going on before the apocalypse. When Shane and Rick were on duty as a police officers in episode 1, Shane ask about Lori with this look that He wanted to know how their (Rick and Lori) relationship was doing, but he didn’t want to know. You see jealousy on Shane’s face then. When Rick is talking about his and Lori’s troubles, Shane is Shane again (laughing and looks relieved).
When Rick is reunited with Lori… Lori tells Rick “I thought you were dead”, because her guilt was eating her up. Most women in that situation wouldn’t have jumped into Shane’s arms that fast. Lori speaks of giving everyone “time to mourn” but she didn’t do that for Rick. If she was truly that kind of person, then she wouldn’t have started a relationship with Shane. Unless she wanted him before the apocalypse or had crossed that line before. Same thing with Shane. I don’t believe he would’ve crossed that line so soon after Rick, unless there was something going on before.
Good observation, that's possibly true. At the very least there was some pre-existing attraction. Also didn't help that Rick and Lori's marriage was on the rocks.
I thought that as well. In the first episode, Shane is portrayed as a player, and Lori is unhappy in the marriage
I have my doubts, beyond an interest, as Shane was as close as a brother to them. They, as partners, also worked together, frequently.
It's harder to pull off an affair, when the nusband shares your shift, and both are off dutt, at the same time, AND successfully keep it hidden.
Being on sofferent shifts made it far easier for my ex wife, ahen sje did it, and it still didn't take long for me to notice that something was going on. Catching them, at that point, was easy, because she made mistakes.
What happened on the road WAS the first time, only, in the comics. Shane says Ive wanted you for so long.
And as someone who had to start over, after a decade, it being someone you are close to does make it easier.
I don't hold Lori responsible in this cass, as Shane did, clearly, mislead her, but also had a decent reason to have done so, as odds are Rick was dead. Only plot armor saved him.
Not to mention, rcen at age 7, Carl would have noticed something off, and likely told his dad. Not what waa going on, but maybe Shane being around, while Rick was out, mentioned in passing, cluing Rick in.
That's the problem with cheating. A lot has to go right, to keep it hidden, but a single mistake is what usially ends up being what reveals the truth.
Not to mention, getting caught would have cost shane, as much as it would have cost Rick, if not more. Especially working as a LEO in the same small town department, or SD, as on the show.
Proven untrustworthy, his career would be over, Lori likely would have moved on, and left him in the end, as that's how most cases like that work.
Not saying can't be the case. Just highly unlikely.
As to sonething going on, keep in mond that shane was also trying to lighten the mood in that scene, because of the bond he and rick have. Not the actions of a man doing his friend's wife.
He would have been advising they split, and bringing up local attorneys, that could handle the divorce, making it easier to aquire her. Guilt free, as she abd Rick would no longer be an item.
Nuce little slut shane there, but you seem to have forgotten one thing.
If Shane and Rick were that close, Brothers in a sense, he and Lori woukd Also be that close. They grew up in the same small town. They had a decade of family interaction before the turn.
Where you are correct is that most cases, it is someone you know, and she knows, that they cheat with.
Good theory, and good observation, even if it is flawed.
Nah Shane says to Rick "I want you to know I never looked at her before all this"
Ed being beat up is the highlight of Shanes character. He has never been better
Shane was in no way the "villain". He was the only character who truly realized what the world had become.
Not gonna lie I have to disagree hard with your first few minutes of assessment, particularly his actions in the hospital.
I'm not sure what you expected him to do after all else was said and done. Looking at it objectively the guy did the following:
- Rushed headfirst into a hospital that was actively falling to the military on one end and the walkers on another
- Tried to get a nurse to help him get Rick out of the room (she refused and kept running)
- Ran through the hospital again to find a bed while the military was executing people indiscriminately
- Made it back to Rick's room with said bed and began attempting to disconnect him from his medical equipment
- Had to hide from a military death-squad while in the middle of the prior move
- While attempting to move him the military bombs the hell out of the hospital and everything blacks out
- Shane in the middle of the world ending, bombs falling, people screaming, and death down the hall cant tell if Rick has a pulse or not (totally believable)
- Shane makes one final attempt to stand guard at Rick's doorway with his sidearm before realizing he will die if stays here
- Shane slams the door shut and blocks it (ultimately saving Rick)
The dude did more than just about anyone would do and could reasonably be asked to. Faulting him for not picking up a fully comatose adult and then attempting to somehow avoid the walkers, military, and who knows what else is just unfair.
AMEN!!! Well said and totally agree!!! I've been preaching that from the moment I watched that scene. Shane attempted to save Rick, alone with no support and in the middle of chaos. He also attempted to save Otis by telling Oris to go and save himself, but Otis refused, so Shane made the hard choice of sacrificing Otis to save bit only himself but Carl... Shane knew what was up and tried so many ways to get the group to understand that in an apocalypse, the "old/normal" way of thinking needs to be altered, and surviving is key. Rick sadly realized what Shane did and was rung to do, despite his obsessive love for Lori, was the way to be and said so when he told the group "this is not a democracy anymore". IMO, Shane was not a villain but misunderstood.
I've thought similar for Shane in the beginning. It's clear he has little to no medical experience (checking for a pulse by ear rather than a pulse check with your fingers over an artery) and for him with the gun fire and bombs I believe he couldn't tell he has a pulse by listening. I always thought he shut the door and barricaded it because he didn't want Rick to become food for the walkers coming down the hall.
Exactly. Even in one in a million if he managed to get both himself and Rick out of there, Rick would ultimately die, as he would still be in a comma without the equipment and the room to sustain him and keep him safe and isolated.
Honestly, I saw what he did as the best thing other than shooting Rick. He couldn't get him out so he blocked him in to keep the walkers away from him. He could have just run away with the door open.
Shane really was a selfish POS but thank you for helping me realize his actions at the hospital towards Rick was always honorable.
Now i understand.
Shane was absolutely right to leave Rick. In the end it 99% saved them both. Trying to get him out of the hospital would have gotten them both killed. Also there's a good chance he wouldn't have heard a heart beat amongst all the chaos.
Agreed. While I suggested he might have been able to try saving Rick, at around the 3min mark my conclusion on that scene was that we simply have to give Shane the benefit of the doubt; he did what he thought was best in a no-win situation.
Shane was always just being practical. You’ve got Rick laid out in a coma, and Shane’s supposed to babysit him while the world’s ending? What’s he supposed to do, drag him around like it’s 'Weekend at Bernie’s'?
I actually always liked Shane, he truly wasn’t lying to Lori when he said that he thought Rick was dead. He listened for his heart but couldn’t hear it, so just in case he was alive he blocked his room off. He probably ended up saying he was dead because of how much time had passed and he honestly didn’t think he made it. In the end he was right too, you have to make the hard decisions that are can be evil sometimes to protect those you care about. But he did lose it once he went bald so, not all good
I mean, I probably would have done the same as Shane in the hospital. I can't remember what Rick's prognosis was like but if we're talking coma/needing intensive care, I would have barricaded the doors best I could and left my friend attached to the medical equipment keeping them alive. I think I would still be assuming that the miltary would be able to get everything under control and hopefully do so in time to go back and help my friend again. Then if the world ended, it'd be hard to imagine someone in Rick's position surviving, and going back would be a suicide mission. Pretty sure if I was left protecting their wife and child, my friend wouldn't want them to go back and be put in huge danger on the slim chance they were still alive so I can understand lying to them that their father/husband was already dead for their own safety.
This is sick what a great character with depth and a great actor
So upset he called Dale dave
My bad, good catch.
@@inthemindofavillain all good just my favorite character aside from Glenn 🤣🤣
@@Thebeltbelongstonoone thank you! He is so underappreciated! One of my top favorites as well!
goes with calling carl corel
Realistically speaking, shane built for this world
Shane is still one of my favorite characters tbh I wish him and Rick could have gotten over loris ass and worked as a great team. Rick eventually understood his way of thinking I wouldn’t necessarily call Shane evil though
You gotta remember who Shane is. He’s a relatively smart guy who had already figured out what kind of guy Otis was. Shane offering himself as sacrifice is a farce. He knew Otis would never accept that, so I don’t believe it cancels out him betraying Otis later in the episode. I think Shane is the single best “villain” in all of the walking dead.
I don't blame Shane for leaving Rick at the hospital. In the heat of the moment, I can entirely believe that he couldn't tell if Rick was dead or alive and simply boarded up the door just in case he was wrong. I don't see any malicious intention thsre. Regardless, he saw with his own two eyes that the military was systematically moving through the hospital, killing everybody in hopes of containing the infection. He had every reason to believe that Rick was either dead or likely would be shortly. He may be painting the situation in the best light possible when he told Lori that he thought her husband was dead instead of going into intimate detail, but he had no reason to believe that this wasn't true and wasn't trying to be deceptive. Trying to escape with a guy who may or may not even wake up is a guaranteed way to get both of you killed. Leaving may not have been a "good" decision, but it was the best decision under the extreme circumstances with the information and time constraints available, and he gave Rick the best shot at survival that he could just in case he was wrong.
Killing Ottis was a bit more messy. He didn't set out with the intention of killing him, and he offered to sacrifice himself. Ottis wouldn't listen, and unlike them, the walkers couldn't tire, and they would have just followed them back to the farm. Killing him would have been better because it probably was one or the other, but what tilts over the line is the fact that he took someone else's life, someone who could have made it, into his own hands and sacrificed them instead of himself. He also didn't just kill him, he injured him and left the zombies to finish him off. That really felt like spite.
I have synpathy for Shane over the situation with Lori. He had no right to continue to pursue her once Rick showed back up, but she actively made things worse thsn necessary. For all his tough talk about making tough decisions, he was barely keeping it together. It's why he was so over the top all the time. He outright said that Lori and Carl kept him alive. Shane may have understood the gravity of the situation faster than Rick, and Rick may have been a bit slower on the uptake, but Rick was far better adjusted and adaptable. Shane wasn't. He was too rigid in his thinking, and he basically black pilled. He was a doomer and Carl and Lori were his life raft in the middle of open ocean. That's why he was so possessive. He was happy Rick survived, but Rick returning meant losing his reason to keep on living and fighting, and he was too inflexible in his thinking to find another reason to keep going or even another way to relate to Rick's family. If Rick expressed clear boundaries with Lori (which he did), but ensured that Shane would have a place in their family and in Carl and Judith's lives in particular, that would have reframed their relationship and could have given Shane a way forward. Instead, Lori antagonized and alienated him, and when she tried to make amends for her own wrongdoing, she did it in the absolute worst way possible and set Rick and Shane against each other. Shane is ultimately responsible for his own choices and had no right to try to take Rick's life and his family, which ultimately does make him a villain, but there are different ways that the Shane situation could have been handled. It didn't have to go down the way that it did.
6:57 his name is Dale not Dave lol
Shane was a tragic villain, he didn't enjoy being the bad guy or enjoy watching people suffer he just realised the harsh realities of what needed to be done to survive and his abilities made him think he was a better fit for Lori than Rick and his feelings for Lori was his weakness and caused his tragic demise.
Coral and Dave were the best characters
😂😂😂. Yes Coral
I never thought you would delve into Shane, but here it is!
Shane did absolutely nothing wrong. You gotta save that boy Rick!
Yurrrrr
shane is such a great character, and i hated his guts throughout his run on the show, even rejoicing when he died. however, so many times, i found myself siding with him. he could have been the reason to rick's empathy and acted as a foil in a positive way, but instead his arc took a dark turn. and as mentioned in the video, he fully recognised that the group may be better off without him and almost left. even when he left otis to die, i was shocked, but couldnt pretend that theres no way i wouldnt do the same in his situation. all in all, hes a realistic representation of what survival instincts may look like in this situation. in these circumstances, any one of us could be rick, but we could all also be shane. seeing him be a horrible person yet agreeing with him presents us an unpleasant mirror to our own nature, and its disturbing to think that we could all one day be shane
Extremely pivotal character and his devotion to Rick is not to be underestimated. But he did wake up fast in the new world.
Some people are just primed for a life, they most likely never would experience, without a world extinction event.
I never saw Shane as a villain. Maybe unhinged or somewhat violent. But I saw him as a fighter and a protector who spoke his mind, even when he was wrong. He loved Rick, and he loved Lori. And I think that's what brought him down.
Lol kept calling Carl Coral 😅 love it
Ur the only person I noticed say this as well
@@Waterypeanutbutter I noticed immediately.
what really lead shane and lori to believing rick was dead was the bombing of the city which they viewed together.
The writers did Shane dirty. He morphed into something he was clearly never meant to be during season 2.
I just started watching this show recently and I wish things went differently. I feel if he could get over his hardy for Lori and go back to being good with Rick, he could have been a HUGE help to the group. I think he could have provided some good help in the Prison Arc.
Shane wasnt a pure villain. He was a man who did the right thing and thought he had found solace after his best friend died only to have the woman he loved and son he came to think of as his own to be taken from him because she pitted Shane and Rick against one another as soon as she saw Rick alive again. It was this that made Shane become sinister because Lori was constantly leading Shane on even after Rick returned. All Shane wanted to do was to be able to talk atleast and she wouldnt allow him to do that she wanted to micromanage his every decision. As was later done to Rick. Shane even opted to leave but was once again dragged back by Lori the true evil one there I contend. Honestly I think Rick and Shane would have been able to work through their differences if not for her misdirection and deceptions and Carl wouldnt have had to lose a friend of the family who was like an uncle/father to him at such a pivotal stage in his life.
Shane was the only season 1 character with a season 5 mindset.
I think many people don’t like Lori because we see her as who she really is. She wasn’t the perfect wife, she didn’t “mourn” her husband as women are expected to. She was cruel with Shane which honestly wasn’t necessary, she could’ve just talk to him and be more understanding that he acted quickly and knew Lori wouldn’t go with him if she wasn’t convinced Rick was dead. She didn’t have to break Carl and Shane’s relationship since it didn’t affect her relationship with Rick. We don’t see her as Rick and Shane do, they couldn’t see her flaws and turn into each other because they were blinded by love/obsession. But I don’t think Lori is the villain. Shane became the antagonist when he thought about murdering Rick in multiple occasions, when he assaulted Lori, when he killed Otis. He wasn’t a good man, Lori had her flaws but wasn’t inherently bad, I like her character because she’s real and not an idealized version of the perfect wife/woman and is her own person not an extension of Rick or Shane. And I don’t think Shane adapted quickly, I believe he was made for that world.
I don’t understand why some people say that Shane was right. I mean, sometimes he did things that were right, but one thing is being adapted and another thing is becoming a monster. Yeah, ghouls aren’t people, Rick was probably dead and you have to take hard decisions in a world like that, but… he aimed at Rick, assaulted Lori in the CDC, he killed Otis, and then he started questioning Rick about everything, he became more agressive, insane and tried to kill his best friend. Does that sound like being right or a monster? Yeah, there are a lot of bad people and dangerous things in the world, but that doesn’t mean that we’ve gotta to be the same way. The real good people can be seen when everything goes to shit. And yeah, Shane did feel guilty when he killed Otis, but if you think about the situation, there where two thing that come to mind when fighting against walkers. Stabbing them with a spear when they were at the the door, or using their shots correctly. Both Shane and Otis shot at zombies that were far away. He was really selfish, and being like that doesn’t make you a good leader. At least he made Hershel realize that walkers are dead people. Idk, that’s my take on Shane, i think he was really an Asshole.
For me Dale and the old Rick really were good people.
6:57 ah yes. My favorite walking dead character ‘Dave’
If you think Shane is a villain, then you completely missed the whole point of his character.
Everyone thinks Shane is a villain. He is considered to be the first antagonist of TWD.
but he is a villain ¿ shane is a complex character but u don't have to be like negan to be the villiain of a certain story.
@@Mar_422 True, in certain ways he did become an antagonist. There were several points throughout the first two seasons where he crossed the line. Pointing the shotgun at Rick, trying to rape Lori, and being reckless. I don't really see him as a villain, though. He was my favorite walking dead character.
You make some very good points, some of which I never thought about. I never noticed how quickly Shane came to a violent solution even back in season 1. It seems that, to Shane, violence was always the best solution for pretty much everything.
A couple things. At the hospital, Shane checks Ricks heartbeat after the machines turn off to see if they were keeping him alive. I genuinely think Shane thought Rick died based off of his reponce abd the way he puts his hand over Rick's eyes. I think the door and bed were about not wanting his best friends corpse defiled or the 1/100000 shot Rick was alive. Thats just me.
Edd was not "on the verge", he was abusing Carol actively at that moment. MAYBE he could have restrained Edd, and I'm not sure he could have, what then? How long does he restrain the guy? Prisoners are a luxury for people with time and resources they can spare, which goes the same for Randall later on.
Regarding Otis. Shane offers to be the sacrifice. Otis, like Rick, expresses he is unwilling to leave someone behind like that. Sure they could risk it, Shane was slower and would have been the one to go down, but thats a risky situation. Thats they kind of case where they might both go down, or he might go down without handing Otis the supplies he was holding. Otis might even die slowing down/trying to save Shane. His willingness to be the sacrifice shows that he didnt kill Otis to save himself, he did it to save Carl. It was honestly Carls only chance. Thats my opinion anyways.
this guy called dale dave💀💀
That's such an insane leap of logic to say that Ed was telling Shane to pull out his gun. He was very obviously telling him to pull the log out of the fire, which is why Shane immediately takes the log out of the fire. Also, Dave? Great lore video lmao.
I love this Video its very nicely made. Shane is one of my favourite Characters and Jon Bernthal's acting was amazing. I wished he wouldve stayed longer in TWD. Maybe a Video about Negan would be interesting aswell. Sure you can put alot of information in that one
Shane was tactical and adapted really quick to the way things became, but he was also hellbent on being right and had a hair trigger temper. He was a loose cannon. Even in a world like that ya gotta have some morals. He probably would've threatened Herschel to help Carl and that wouldn't have gone so well
The crazy irony part about it is every last one of them becomes like Shane. Shane seen the hordes of dead Shane seen the bombs fall ge knoe civilization would never be the same again his obsession for Lori was his downfall I bet some people on the group wish they had him when the they came across the governor and negan I god knows I did
Shane was the only character who was 100% right from the start!
Except the whole aiming a gun at his best friend part
i wish shane calmed down and settled with andrea he would have survived
Fax all they had to do was leave together, they even talked about it, they both should’ve left the group together
I like how the thumbnail looks so unthreatening and flamboyant yet says "in the mind of a villain"
if you look really deep into shane's eyes at 9:18 just after leaving otis you can see the guilt. his face is in pain because of the added weight of the extra bag and the pain but you can clearly see the guilt
I disagree with the idea that Shane simply wrote Rick off in the hospital, he literally had no way to get him out, the army was killing uninfected left and right and Rick was hooked up to life saving aparatus. Even if Shane could somehow muster the strenght to carry Rick out through the walkers and the army he had no way of knowing if taking him off the IVs and other medical equipment won't kill him. The simple fapt that he blocked the door showed that he cared about Rick. Also I really hate that in the series he told Lori Rick was dead, which he didn't do in the comics they just assumed because Atlanta fell. They really made Shane way worse in the series, with the rape scene too, some of the few adaptation decisions in season 1 I really disagree with.
Also I disagree that what he did to stop Ed was the "wrong" thing or that he exagerated. The reason why he simply restrained Jim was because he didn't hurt anybody and was obvious that the man was distressed, while Ed is a repeat offender who put his hands on his wife and daughter, which also makes him dangerous to the rest of the women in the group, I mean he did slap Andrea if I remember corectly. What was shane supposed to do? Restrain him and hope that his heart will grow 3 times and fix his personality?
Bruh... he did the right thing at the hospital
Agreed, when all's said and done, we have to give him the benefit of the doubt there. Not much else he could do.
It's not that he thought he could or he thought rick couldn't. It was that he knew what kind of person you had to be and was afraid he couldn't do it himself. He needed Rick to do it so he didn't have to.
When he brought Rick to the woods he knew only one of them was walking out. And whoever walked out was going to have to prove they were the one who would do what it takes.
Shane did what he had to do in basically his whole time on the show. Had he been alive by the time they ran into Negan, I guarantee he would’ve ended him quickly.
Telling the internet that a woman is not responsible for the actions of a man is a dangerous endeavour
Shane was ahead of his time
First to adapt
Ya, as to the hospital he could have been trying to keep THE ZOMBIES out so Rick's body wouldn't be eaten.
1:17 I honestly don't blame Shane for saying he was dead I mean in all logical explanation he more than likely would have been by the time he got to them
I'm shocked that Shane made it out of the hospital, with the walkers and the military
I genuinely dont know if hes calling Carl "Coral" as a joke or not XD Im trying to focus on the video but boom "Coral".
If Shane left and met the governor he'd definitely take Rick prisoner.
I think that he knew Rick was alive but thought he needed the machines to keep him alive so he left him and blocked the door so he wouldn't be eaten
Shane wasn't a villain, he was just a man put into some of the worst situations and tried to make the best decisions.
Shane was a great survivor that figured out how the new world worked, way sooner than anyone else. If he actually got to leave, I have no doubt he'd still be alive by the end.
An interesting question though, would he have joined the Saviors? I think he probably would have
He did attempt to carry Rick. He's not just unconscious, he's been in a coma for months.
“Let me tell you something”- Shane
I see it that Shane thought that surely Rick would die. The military was coming in and killing everyone so if they had seen Rick they would’ve surely killed him and they would have killed the brain so he doesn’t turn. I think Shane blocking the door was the best case scenario for Rick honestly
Bro called Dale Dave
Imagine season 5 Rick and season 2 Shane teaming up…..
You CANNOT fault Shane for Otis's death. His decision was the only moral decision to make. At that moment, the only two outcomes were either one of them dies and Carl maybe lives, or both of them die and Carl definitely dies. Shane offered to be the sacrifice, and Otis made it clear that he was not willing to sacrifice Shane in order to make it out of there with the medical supplies.
There is no world where Shane and Otis make it away from the horde. Not with no ammo. Not with busted ankles from the fall. Like it or not, someone had to die. It sucks that it had to be Otis, the unwilling sacrifice over Shane, the willing one.
when shane left rick in the hospital, he closed the door and blocked it with a bed to keep him safe, he probably did think he was dead because who could survive the military and walkers in a hospital with no more than an iv keeping him alive for a month. shane was right in thinking rick was dead, and he did think he was dead, if shane knew rick was alive he wouldnt have had the affair with lori.
Stunned Dave? I can’t believe you did my man Dale like that.
I wouldn’t call Shane a villain. I’d say he was just able to adapt to the world around them faster than the rest could.
He knew it was now a world of true survival. And at first he tried to show Rick the way but over time Rick wasn’t getting it.
So he put him to the test even though he knew he’d most likely die.
In the end toward the later seasons Rick soon figured out what Shane had meant all along and soon became what Shane had. A survivor who had to do what it took to survive and protect his people.
That’s why I’m the flashback with Rick and Shane before he got to the bridge he told Rick the things he’d done were what he had tried to show him all along. And that’s why he told him “WAKE UP!” Because he knew it wasn’t time for Rick to die just yet.
Shane wasn’t a villain. But he was more so an anti hero. He was with Rick in some sense. But he was against him in others. Nonetheless he cared for Rick.
Shane would’ve been a bad ass survivor had he not perished so soon.
Shane has always been more of a tragic character to me than an evil character and his end was a sad scene. As for the corpses from the barn, that's debatable. Shooting could attract a herd that later destroyed the farm, while a barn full of zombies could be useful, for example, to defend against other groups haunting the area or to mask the farm from the herd.
I do honestly think that in a lot of ways, Shane was what Rick needed, and eventually did, become, just… Shane managed to buck up and do it earlier and faster. Nearly everything Shane tells rick he needs to be able to do, rick eventually realizes is true and does do. I think a lot of Shane’s anger is just simply frustration over rick constantly creating needless, dangerous situations which could get people killed, and ultimately, yeah, that’s exactly what happens. Rick’s poor decision making, his inability to buck up and do what needs to be done gets many people killed, again, and again, and again until he basically has a mental breakdown and goes into psychosis temporarily, goes apeshit, and then has the realization and started doin the same shit Shane did, which, if you’ll notice: started keeping way more people alive, and eventually led them to a far better life in the apocalypse. For all intents and purposes, Shane was just tryna help rick realize the reality of the situation without him needing to go insane first. And rick didn’t like that. Rick was a blind, hopeless empath with a savior complex, one that wouldn’t be resolved till it had slaughtered countless around him. We all like to think of Rick as the great hero, but in many ways, he’s sort of a deeply morally grey, borderline ignorantly villainous character. This is something pretty clearly shown in the comics, and I wish they’d done a better job at showing that in the show. I mean, ricks character in the comics, basically does all the shit Shane did in the show, if not egregiously worse. It’s pretty well demonstrated Rick is… sort of a madman in his own ways in the comics. I think the show just chose to, because they kept Shane around longer, split rick’s comic character in two, this evil, dark side of Rick would become Shane in season 2, and the good side of Rick would be him in season 2, as well as most of season 3.
As far as the hospital, Shane did the right thing. Very bad situation, do no harm but focus on urself
Otis looks like the drummer in a band i was in for a lot of years.
Though Rick almost kills someone out of jealousy. The husband of the hairdresser in Alexandria. He almost drew his weapon on him, and this was before he knew about him beating on her. Now he had a bad feeling about him before he knew about the beatings....but a bad feeling doesn't excuse almost drawing on your crush's husband. In that way they made a juxtapose of him almost going full shane.
I read this soon as narrator says Rick would never kill outta jealousy.
Am like *THATS NOT TRUE!*
Early days of Alexandria when he crushed on blondie.
Shane was good during the hospital scene, he slowly became villian later when Rick returned.
Nope! Ed needed the hell beat out of him
6:58 You Called Him Dave🤣
Shane was the first time I ever saw a 'villain' as totally justified in his villainy.
He wasn't evil. He was just ahead of the others. He realized what the apocalypse meant and was acting accordingly imo
Reminds of what the Joker told Batman in TDK;
*"AM NOT A MONSTER- JUST AHEAD OF THE CURVE!"*
Describes Shane to a T.
He was okay with dieing at the school, but he realized Otis was 'too good' and wouldn't leave him behind and likely both of them would die
I couldn't have done that though, poor Otis 😢
Loved Shane! Jon did a great job playing that character!
I never saw him as a villain but a misunderstood hero
“The right decision is the one that keeps us ALIVE”
Shane and Rick are the Walking Dead’s equivalent of two apes fighting to the death for who’s leader of the tribe. Rick won, but both were capable.
Shane always was right regarding survival decisions from a practical sense. Emotionality got people killed over and over again. The fun of Shane was condemning him when most people would have done the same. Sometimes the mirror isn’t fun to look in.
I loved the from a logical point of view reference lmaoo
Shane becomes a murderer. Rick kills primarily as protector
I am not so sure he was a Villian. He turned into one yes. But he didn't start out that way. I can fully understand where he was coming from and I am not so sure I wouldn't do the same. Shane was right. And "Offiicer Friendly " died right along with him.
The Rick killing Shane scene would have been better if it had gone differently. There was a pitch where Rick kills Shane only to realize his gun wasn’t loaded and that Shane was never going to kill Rick. In my opinion, would have been a much better ending to the character.
I saw countless comments defending Shane´s violent ideology of surviving at all cost. I have my few cents to add to that argument, or rather against it. In the final confrontation with rick ( Finale Season 2) Shane explains that he is a better man and protector because of his willingness to sacrifice anything and anyone under the right circumstances to " protect" Lori and Carl. What I always felt like was, that he simply lost it after Rick came back, Shane deluded himself into this non-existent rivalry with Rick, trying to prove to himself how he is better, yet he really wasnt. Ricks decision to save Shane from the bus was stupid enough, but my point is, as a leader of the group of survivors, I would have never allowed someone like Shane to stay, possibly even live. Someone that is borderline psychopathic and short tempered, willing to hurt or even kill after having very little time to consider the other alternatives. This is IMO where they went wrong with Rick´s development and with the message of the whole show in the later seasons. Rick used to be able to remain calm and rationalize alternative solutions to violence, which is something that every good leader should possess, especially in a world like that one. As for Shane, him being the "hero" he believed himself to be was nothing but selfishness and ego stroking himself.
I feel like Shane gets a lot of shit he doesn't deserve. Firstly, the hospital thing. I think any of us in that situation would have, at a certain point, needed to put ourselves or others first when we cannot possibly help our friend who was in a coma in an apocalypse. He heard the gun fire, saw them kill hospital staff, he had to get out to save himself and others. He did what he could for Rick, even at the very end with the gurney. I couldn't be mad at Shane for that, even if I was the person in the hospital bed. Shane might have been an officer, but officers are not trained EMT's or doctors, he couldn't know if Rick was alive or dead or even if he was alive, how long Rick had left without proper training.
Secondly, with Merle. Screw Merle. In hindsight, he tried to redeem himself before he died, but that doesn't fix who he was his entire life. Merle got stuck on that roof as a result of how he acted towards the group in Atlanta. He was hostile, drawing walkers, and he made himself a threat to their survival. He was not ever worth going back for, even at the expense of Daryl leaving the group. (which in context of the show and how good Daryl is as a character sounds bad to say, but this is in the moment when the choice was made, not seasons later when we realized Daryl was a good character.) I would not be risking lives, resources, etc for Merle. Honestly, maybe not even the guns. Atlanta was too hot a spot in that moment, and I'd likely have not gone for them until later when the herd had moved on. It was not worth sending a group into Atlanta so soon after they barely got back and risk the safety of camp.
Thirdly, also screw Ed. He was a violent person who abused his family, and had he ever been in prison for that kind of stuff, worse would likely have happened to him if others found out he abused his daughter. Shane was a guy who worked a job where he saw the worst humanity produces for a living and dealt with them. What Ed got is less than what he deserved. Shane let him off easy compared to what others have gotten for similar. Could Shane have restrained Ed like Jim? Sure, but was Ed more dangerous than Jim? Was Jim as hostile towards Shane, or resistant? Or a repeat offender? Jim had one weird thing happen, where Ed had been standoffish multiple times and made himself a clear threat to others, where Jim it could have been heat stroke or something else. Jim's behavior was digging holes, not attacking his wife.
Fourthly and possibly most importantly is the family dynamic with Lorie and Coral. I feel like Shane did his best, possibly out of a sense of duty, so protect his best friend's family after thinking his best friend was dead in a zombie apocalypse. I feel like Shane did his best for be a positive role in Coral's life while Rick was missing, and he did his best, against his own wishes, to refrain from talking to Coral after being told not to by Lori when Rick returned. Lori, in my opinion, was written terribly in the show. She constantly flip flopped on Shane and Rick on if Shane was allowed to be there or not for her or Coral, if Rick should or shouldn't trust him, she tried to goad Rick into handling Shane by saying that Shane thinks Judith is his, even before Shane hit the point of no return, trying to turn them on each other. She told Shane off at the quarry, then wanted him by Coral after he was shot, then changed her mind again. She tried to get rid of Judith, then told Rick to deal with Shane on behalf of the baby she tried to abort. I hated Lori in the show, and this dynamic never really was shown in the comics because Shane was gone in issue 3 or something. How much of this is really Shane's fault, when honestly he was lead on and never had consistency from Lori, and it's honestly a bit up in the air on who began their relationship. When Rick returned, should he have pursued Lori? No. But part of me feels like he really didn't except for when he was under the influence. He really just wanted to talk to her and apologize and explain himself. You can almost tell he was sorry he misjudged his best friend's survival. And if we really want to call him an asshole for what he did with Lori, it's a bit weird we don't talk about Abe and Rosita/Sasha or any other character who does scummy things to the women in this show. So if you want to white knight for Lori and say Shane was the worse of the two, then let's open discussion on the other unfaithful characters in this series, like Tyreece in the comics or Michone in the comics, or Abe, or several others. Just because Shane is a "bad guy" we need to drag this relationship dynamic into it but honestly there are protagonists in this universe who did this and get away with it because they aren't Shane?? Bottom line is, Shane really tried to fix things, but he eventually hit a breaking point. And when he thought Rick wasn't the man he was, yeah he went too far, but this man went through hell and back to protect people and save people, save Coral even after he was forbidden from seeing or speaking to Coral again, save Sophia, a little girl he thought was dead but searched for anyway. Everyone has a breaking point, should he be at fault for hitting his after being put through so much?
Fifth, the gun at Rick in the Atlanta camp. There's really no defense for this. You could try and say he thought it was a walker, and he was being alert, but once it's clear he knows it's Rick, there's no excuse. He probably really was just mad from their talk. But, for a man as violent and binary in thought as this video makes Shane seem to be, he shown restraint. He didn't do it. Something stopped him, and maybe sure, it was plot armor, but Shane had to have a reason. He shown restraint and that shows that even though he was mad and entitled to Lori and Coral, he knew it was wrong and valued his friend enough to not do it. He saw reason. While the act is not excusable, the restraint still shows that while he was mad and thought about it, he's not so gone that he just did it. Though as events continue to unfold, you see him break bad eventually, and he is at that point. Which is where he truly becomes an antagonist.
Sixth, Otis and the sacrifice and lie thereafter. I don't think this was as selfish as this video makes it out to be. He wanted to be sure Coral got what he needed to survive. And Shane was unsure if Otis was capable of being the person to finish the job. Shane trusted himself more to get the medicine to Coral than he did the man who shot Coral. Not a terrible evaluation, all things considered. Was it clearly a bad thing? Yeah, but he did what many people debate on what is truly better, sacrifice of the few to help the many. Sure in this case, it's a one for one, Coral or Otis or Shane, but Coral has more value than Otis. If you had to kill one or the other, who would you choose? Sure Shane could have sent Otis on and gave himself up, he even offers to do that, but he realizes where Otis does not that either one needs to go on and leave the other, or neither will make it and save Coral. That sort of ability to evaluate your situation is key to survival, and Shane did not do the wrong thing. Morally, it was questionable, but for his survival and possibly Coral's, it was the best option. I do not and cannot blame Shane for this choice. Also he clearly did not like that he did it, but he knew he had to.
Seventh, the Sophia search. Shane stops agreeing with the merits of the search, but he does not call of the search, instead resorting to Rick's choice. Again, he has the right state of mind but cares enough about the others to not stop and refuse it. As a former cop, he knows the rule. 48 hours later, you're looking for a body. That's the rule. But he still goes against it until the end.
Eighth, the barn. There is nothing you can do to convince me Shane was wrong to rid the barn of walkers. They are the primary threat, the group knows this. Yes, it's Hershal's farm and choice to make, but it's not safe and Hershal can either live with it (which he eventually does) or honestly die for it. If it were me, I'm keeping the farm. Hershal cannot keep me from it. He can either live or die by that fact. It's safety, it's food, it's what is needed. Morals be damned, if it were my son and family, I'm not leaving that farm, if I were Rick. Shane had the right idea.
Ninth, Randall. Randall is a liability waiting to go off, and Shane was not the only one to know this. Despite his thoughts, he still remains loyal to Rick and is patient. He remains a good friend and reliable, not evil. But eventually, Shane could not take all of this any more and he did break.
Which anyone is capable of doing, even Rick does in time break like this. Shane never got his chance to come back like Rick did, and that's likely why people still see him as a villain. He was written to be one, so he was one, but honestly, a majority of the things he did were not even as bad as they could have been. Lori was worse for the relationship/family dynamic than he was, just based on her inconsistency and her trying to pit Shane and Rick against each other while not even wanting the baby herself. She was poorly written and people take it out on Shane. He deserves better.
When he says "pull it out, man" he's talking about the log. No idea how you got his gun out of that interaction.