Review: Quick Mill Pathfinder Espresso Machine
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Review of the Quick Mill Pathfinder semi-automatic espresso machine. Available flow control of the E61 group works magic for truly modern espresso extractions. Get results of brew temperature testing, steaming performance and go start to finish through a flow profile developed working with coffee pros from around the world. If looking to upgrade from a from a single boiler machine or step right into high-end espresso brewing the Pathfinder should be on your list.
Flow Control Article:
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Learn More:
Quick Mill Pathfinder with Flow Control: www.wholelatte...
Quick Mill Pathfinder w/o Flow Control: www.wholelatte...
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I guess I never realized what flow control actually is. It's a whole new way to nerd out and now I must get a machine with it!
I'm still trying to get my milk right :P
Just bought this machine from you guys as my first Espresso machine. I went with the flow control variant as I plan on keeping this machine for a while and didn't want to have second thought about not getting a prosumer device in a year from now. Im so excited to try this product!
Hi AR, Thanks for your patronage and congrats on your new machine!
Please update your experience with flow control. Thanks much.
I ordered one for me!!!! I am anxiously awaiting its deliver on Jan 12th. Thanks Mark for all of your great videos. I am getting it with the flow control!
Hi Ken, You are welcome! Flow control opens up a lot of possibilities. If you have not already check my Flow control videos like this one with 2 simple flow profiles that produce great results: ruclips.net/video/a-QAOo8Vg5A/видео.html
Also this article on calculating flow rates. You'lll want to know what your flow rates are. The article includes graphs of other profiles as well: www.wholelattelove.com/blogs/articles/intro-to-calculating-flow-rate-on-e61-group-machines
Enjoy your machine!
Marc
Congrats!! Also awaiting mine and am super excited. Post vids if you can! There aren’t many for this machine. I’m going to try posting some to share
Have you gotten your machine? If so how are you liking it?
@@EarthbendR How are you liking your machine? I’m thinking of getting one
It sounds out of this world! That 1 degree temp rise is pretty impressive.
Hey squib, It sure is! Many HX machines get a lot hotter with lengthy idle times.
Marc
Nice, im so happy having the pro 700 with flow control, but still watching your videos🥰
Hey YL, Thanks for watching and great to hear you're so happy with your Pro 700 with FC. It's a fine machine!
Marc
Back again. It would be amazingly appreciated if you all could demo flow control recipes on this WLL exclusive!
Well hey there! Will see what I can do. In the meantime, you can certainly adapt the basic principles in our flow technique videos to this machine. Also the profiles found in this article: www.wholelattelove.com/blogs/articles/intro-to-calculating-flow-rate-on-e61-group-machines
Marc
Mark, at 6:22 you said you'd also put the flow control article in the description but looks like you forgot to. You're tempting me into buying that ECM flow control upgrade that I think fits most generic E61 heads.
Hey George, Thanks for the catch! My editor (me!) missed that. Here's the link: www.wholelattelove.com/blogs/articles/intro-to-calculating-flow-rate-on-e61-group-machines
It's in the description now as well.
Marc
I’m torn between this, the Arnos (would need to add flow control), and the Profitech Pro 500 PID w/ flow control… considering the consistency in brew temp even without the PID on the Pathfinder, would the Arnos or Pro 500 be worth the extra money?
Hi a, It really comes down to what is important to you like design preference. All are very capable machines. Pro 500 has been around for a long time (with consistent improvements) and has a solid reputation. Pathfinder is newer entrant offered at a discount. With good technique both are equally capable so at end of day you can make same quality espresso on both.
Hope that helps!
Without a PID how would one change the brew temp for different types of beans? Would you purge the group for a few seconds to lower the temp? I assume you need to add a thermometer to the group head to determine the baseline temp to figure if you should purge to lower temp?
Hi b, Yes, flushing/purging prior to pulling a shot is how one controls brew temp in machines without PID. Not many users will add a thermometer. Most will time (or guess) based on experience using the machine and where it is in it's heating cycle.
Marc
This machine requires a 15 second cooling flush after steaming milk to cool the head down for brewing is that correct?
Hi James, Thanks for the question. Depending on where the machine is in heating cycle and how long it's been on and idle it may need a short flush prior to an extraction. That need is not tied to steaming as the machine has a heat exchange boiler.
Different story on single boiler machines. Those do need the boiler cooled/refilled following steaming.
Hope that helps!
Marc
Is there any control over temperature on this machine?
Hi Z, thanks for the question. The pressurstat inside the machine can be adjusted to change temperature in the boiler. Like other HX boiler machines quick brew temperature manipulations are done by flushing water from the group before making an extraction. By changing timing of flushes one can change brew temp.
Does the LED link blink when it's still coming up to temp? How do we know when it's ready to brew? Also, does it have the audible beeps when the water reservoir is low like other Quick Mill machines?
So far I haven’t noticed any blinking lights or beeps. I just wait 15 to 20 min to let it get to temp. Also there is no manual, and the on,one manual is NOT specific to this machine. In facts, the pathfinder is not even mentioned in that manual. Trying to find which machine this one is built off of so I can at least reference that. Think it’s the Arnos maybe?
@@EarthbendR discovered it’s a rebranded quick mill rubino. It does have an audible warning beep when the water tank runs empty
This appears to be a new machine on the market and compared to ECMs for example it offers 2year warranty instead of 3. Should we take this as an indication that things are still getting worked out? Also, being a more rare model, should one expect replacement parts to be available in the future?
Hio Andi, Thanks for the question. Quick Mill has made machines for many years and the Pathfinder model is based on another machine of theirs with some mostly aesthetic changes. The difference in warranty is not based things needing to get worked out in a new machine. It's due to what the manufacturer offers.
How much time does it take the machine to recover between shots?
Hi u, thanks for the question. In typical usage, the machine should fully recover by the time you prep and load your next PF. Like all HX machines brew temp tends to drop with multiple quick back to back extractions.
So… i’m looking to buy my first machine and I want to approach it with a “buy once cry once” philosophy. Basically get something that’s gonna keep me happy for years. As somebody that likes to tinker and fiddle around with recipes, would you recommend this over the Bezzera BZ13? Does flow control offer more possibilities than PID?
Hi J.R., Thanks for the question. PID makes consistent brew temps very easy. You can adjust temps without PID using timed flushes just prior to extraction. Doing so is more of a "feel" kind of thing so take a bit of experience with a machine to be consistent. Flow control opens up a lot of possibilities - especially for those using fresh from roast specialty grade coffee. Those long low flow pre-infusions do wonders!
Not seeing too many reviews on RUclips for this machine. Seeing much more about the Appartamento. Anyone have any comparisons between these two?
Hi 8k4, The Pathfinder is a custom machine we developed with Quick Mill so probably not much content out there other than ours. Right now, the QM Pathfinder is about $50 less than the lowest priced Appartamento and that's with flow control which you cannot get on the Appartamento. The QMP has a 1400 watt element while the RA has 1200. Boiler size is about the same. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage indeed it does and I just bought one from whole latte love today! Can’t wait until it gets to me. Super excited and thank you!
@@Wholelattelovepage
Hey there. Just got my pathfinder. There is NO flow with the flow control lever at the both the 1/8 and 1/4 positions. Is there an issue with my machine? Flow rate begins with the lever in the 1/2 position and is calculated at 0.855 grams. Any input would be appreciated. Also, what machine is the Pathfinder built off of? I need to cross reference it in the online only manual, as the Pathfinder is another listed at all.
@@EarthbendR I have this machine as well and with my flow control I start getting a light flow at about a 1/2 turn from closed. Not a big deal as you still get a lot of control from there on. Also, mine had a leak from the housing the water reservoir connects to that connects the water tube. If you happen to have the same issue just take the machine housing off, remove that housing and put a piece of rubber 3m tape under and tighten back down. The inside piece just wasn’t pushed in tight enough to seal it properly. It was an easy fix. Other than that I’m really happy with it.
I’ve had this machine for 4 months, cannot get anything but sour espresso no matter what I do. Holds 1.4 bar, which, with a group head thermometer is 204 at idle after 20 minutes. Pressure on the gauge reads just over 10 bar, so everything seems right. Tried all sorts of beans and even over extracted to see what would happen and still sour. Wonder if it’s a machine pressure stat issue on mine?
Hi bp, Sorry you are having troubles with sour shots. Are you sure you are not mistaking bitter for sour? 204F is a rather high brew temp. One that typically extracts more solids from a coffee and almost always goes bitter if over-extracted. Any chance you are using extra fresh from roast beans roasted light? Light roast often do better with higher brew temps. Fresh from roast beans of that type tend to be very bright/acidic due to CO2 yet to off gas. Any chance the brightness is what you consider to be sour? I don't see any indication of pressure stat issue other than perhaps it's heating too much. You could turn down the pressure a bit to lower the temperature at the group or use a cooling flush prior to extraction to lower brew temp.
@@Wholelattelovepage medium to dark beans. I’ll try a higher end grinder (currently use Breville smart grinder pro) and maybe add 1-3 more grams output to see how that goes.
Have you had any issues with burning yourself on the stubby flow control lever? Do you offer a longer handle for the flow control valve?
Hi g, I have not had an issues with burning. One needs to use reasonable caution around an E61 group but the black handle doesn't get that hot.
Marc
Just got mine yesterday and can confirm, that tiny flow control lever does get pretty hot. Almost uncomfortable, and I’d say definitely don’t touch the area around that little lever. It gets super hot.
like the rubber grips on the wands
Hi Bruce, Thanks for the comment. As mentioned no rubber grips on shipping machines with the cool touch wands.
Marc
Hey Mark a little off topic but can u tell me why the ECM synchronika weighs almost 10lbs more than the Profittec pro 700. When they are nearly similar machines?
Hi CCG, Thanks for the question. Internally the machines are nearly identical. Weight differences are due to heavier external components of the Synchronika. It has a more substantial seamless base frame, thicker side/back panels, more substantial lever operated valves, metal tips on PFs/group lever/valve levers and extra trim on the E61 group.
Marc
Would you recommend that digital thermometer you are using (Amprobe TMD-56) ? I'm looking at getting a SCACE but unsure of what temp probe to pair with it?
Hi George, The Amprobe meter works well. Scace is typically sold with the thermocouple included and it's a "Type T".
Marc
Great video, as always! Other than flow control, how would you compare this to the Quick Mill Arnos?
Hey M, Thanks for the comment. Here's a link to a side by side spec comparison of the machines: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=NDgzMjYxODI1MDI5NCw2NTQ0MTQ2ODU4MDM4
And our video review of the Arnos in case you missed it: ruclips.net/video/GYdEaLS85Jk/видео.html
Both are HX boiler machines. Key difference is Arnos has PID temp control, shot timer and is a bit wider.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage
Compare feature doesn't work on the website unfortunately.
Is it better than the profitec 700
Hey Aziq, Thanks for the question. That depends on what you consider to be better. Price wise the Pathfinder compares very well to other non-plumbable heat exchange boiler machines with vibration pumps and E61 group. The Profitec Pro 700 is a level up (and about $1,000 more) with dual boilers, rotary pump, PID, plumbable and class leading steaming power with up to about 2 bar of pressure in the service boiler.
Marc
Buying an Espresso machine with a price tag near the 2K mark seems like you crossed past prosumer, or at highest level Prosumer. Despite the Funfactor, at 2k, the flow control "feature" adds another layer of complexity to the current variables at play, AND requires your full attention for every extraction.
At that point, it makes sense to either pay extra for programmable flow control or spend a LOT less and go manual.
Hi eoY, Thanks for the comment. Highest level prosumer DB, PID, rotary pump machines are running ~$3K. Sure it adds another variable but many find it incredibly useful. I didn't go deep on this topic in the video but using flow control and visual cues one can correct for grind size that's a bit off. Programmable and repeatable flow like on the Dalla Corte Mina does make sense but it's in the neighborhood of 4x the rpice of this machine to have that.
Marc
It sounds like it's better than the ECM Classika PID. Like the larger heating element 1400W vs 1200W, and the larger boiler capacity 1.79L vs 0.976L.
Hi Victor, Yes, and it's a heat exchange boiler machine so you can brew and steam simultaneously. The Classic is a single boiler. Plus the Pathfinder like the Classika is available with flow control for next level extrractions: www.wholelattelove.com/products/pathfinder-semi-automatic-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
It's like you can't make a bad video! I love my sylvia but this pathfinder...nice
Hi dcds, Thanks for the kind comment! There's a whole latte love for Miss Silvia out there. But yes, the Pathfinder is a nice machine.
Marc
Quick question: would you recommend setting the machine’s OPV back to the shipped 11 bar to more closely align with the flow rates at each position shown in your videos??
Yes
Damn! The low price of only 2189$CAD got me highly interested for my GF, plus the fact it was a partnership with WLL & QuickMill so still made in Italy rather than China. Outstanding value with the flow control which is usually only found on machines at least a grand above. Even on my (Rocket R58) I had to buy and install that thing separately for about 450$?
However... it totally lost me when I noticed there was no PID like wtf in 2022 how much more can a small PID chip add to the cost? It's like the Appartemento, the best looking Rocket with a deal breaker being no PID at such a high "post-covid" price tag :\
Sir i would love to hear a review from you of milesto machines.. Em18
Em19-m2, em30 thank you God bless
Hi NLTV, Thanks for the request. I have yet to see or use those machines but if able to get one I will review.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you in advance.. Much appreciated
This machine makes no sense to me. Flow control is nice but wouldn't a PID be more important? How could you maintain taste consistency of a flow profile when the temperatures vary shot to shot?
yea I’m not sure about the viability of these E61 flow control devices on HX machines. Seems like just pushing them out on every E61 model just to fill a spec sheet regardless of performance.
Hi PN, Thanks for the comment. Brew temps on this machine are very consistent. It takes more finesse than with a PID machine where it's easier to be precise. But the capabilities using flow have a much larger impact on extractions than a degree or two of temperature IMO.
Marc
eagle one prima PLEASE!!!!
Hi Jay, If/when I get one I'll do it!
Marc
Not bad for the price.
Hey a, Thanks for the comment. It is a nice price when compared feature to feature to similar machines. Most of the others don't have the nice stainless steel chassis and some don't have a brew pressure gauge. It's personal preference, but I'd argue it's a more contemporary style for this type of machine.
Marc
$1,949 with no mention of a PID....
Hi Jay, That's correct it uses a pressurstat instead of PID.
Marc
No PID, and now $1700 with the flow control
first 😜
Hey Sandy, Yes you are!
Marc