Awesome build man. Probably pretty optimistic but I'm rooting for you to hit the 200 mark on a stock bore/bottom end, you'd be breaking serious ground! I'd guess that would put you somewhere in the 165wtq range? Can't wait to see the results and see what the dyno looks like. Do you think you could show all of the previous dynos as a comparison? Or even do an overlay? Awesome work on the car. I've been somewhat trying to take a similar route with my 1.6T for a while now without going inside the engine, to me the fun of the R&D and the results are worth the cost. Good luck with the new tricks, I hope it pulls on the S2000!
This is such an inspiration absolutely love the dedication on your build the attention to detail is second to none congrats and gods luck here's hoping u can crack 200whp though out this process keep us posted!!
I can really recommend you to make a header tuned to your current engine specs and output goals. This will probably give you a pretty significant chunk of extra power compared to a (albeit modified) header designed for a stockish engine.
Hey quinn not sure if you are aware but I came across a german channel called sps motorsports who claim they build 225+hp ITB MX5 engines for street/track use (fully built motors). I started digging into the specs some to see if I could tell how they're accomplishing this and saw they were using custom spec'd cams from a company called Cat Cams (also some custom wiseco pistons but no specs found yet). The site is in german but the came spec sheet is in english. Looked into those cams and though there isn't much user info online I did find one video and a couple random forum posts so far reporting achieving over 190hp and good torque on mildly modded engines, ITBs, minor head porting and valve springs type stuff. I'm super fresh on the hunt so still learning what I can about them. I was hoping if some of the miata gurus became aware you'd look into it also and give them a real shake down. If they work as good as it seems I could see your engine breaking into the 200+hp range. I don't know much about cam specs so maybe they have a ridiculous amount of lift but the dyno sheet I saw in the video looked to have a nice curve. Dyno vid - 192 hp @7500rpm / 161ft/lb @5700rpm: ruclips.net/video/1lj6VIuQfcI/видео.html SPS motorsports vid: (english) ruclips.net/video/XvmAmMwJ1Gw/видео.html SPS Cat Cams: ("Sauger" are the N/A cams) sps-motorsportshop.com/teileshop/performance-teileshop/mazda-mx-5-nb-1999-2000/motor/1-8-liter/ventiltrieb/
That Dyno video is very misleading. We don't know what type of dyno that is or what type of correction factor is being applied for that number. The fact that it says they are running a catalytic converter makes me even more weary. Also, there is no way they are pulling 161 lb ft of tq out of a BP unless it's substantially bigger bore and stroke. With my compression ratio I could go with a bigger cam but I'd still be shifting the power band up higher at the cost of low end. The engine is already peakier than I'd like in the current trim and if I raise RPM to accommodate bigger cams wear is going to be accelerated as BP cranks deform at 8400 rpm causing massive wear to bearings and cylinder sleeves/piston rings.
@@TheSlipAngle I was able to come across another dyno video from another more popular foreign channel I've been actually following for a little but just didn't know they were using the cam I was looking into. They have better footage of the engine build and dyno session. They built an engine very close in specs to your own although not sure of the compression ratio. They also posted very similar HP numbers to the last dyno video and seem to just break into the 200HP range. ruclips.net/video/cT2PLPleWdc/видео.html P.S. I'm reaching so hard because I really want this to be true lol.
Hey Quinn, I have a question about the cams... Do you thing it's possible to go to the Maruha Racing 272 degree cams and still drive the car decently on the street?
i just put together my 2000 nb with the stock head and the block from a 2003 and i cant get it to run right do i have to buy a megasquirt in order for it to run properly
+Thecharliejolly No you shouldn't. The stock ECU can handle that setup no problem assuming everything else is stock. Sounds like you have something else going on.
Man great videos i enjoy them a lot....just keep it this way. Btw, are you still running stock coils? Wouldnt you benefit from Coil on Plug setup for 7500+ rpm? My guess 192 whp and 137 wtq
+Luka Matijašević Yes, still on stock coils. I think people put too much weight in the COP setups. I haven't had any ignition issues with the stock coils on this engine nor on my 254 whp 1.6 @ 18-19 psi, so until I do I will continue to stick with stock :)
194 WHP (hopefully it's 200WHP) and 141 wtq Also, are you running an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator? If so, anything you've learned from them, or are they worth anything?
+Striball No FPR, NBs have a returnless fuel system so I would have had to run a return line to the tank to make it work. Stock NB fuel pressure is already 61 psi though.
how did you degree your camshaft after the head shave? do you have the stock specs for those cams? I'm in a similar situation my self right now wondering if the timing marks will still hold up
I didn't degree them. We set the cams at an educated guess baseline and then we went to the dyno and played with them from there until we found an optimal setting.
+Rockit181 I am eventually going to do a detailed video on this once I'm finished setting up my AP1. The quick and dirty so far is that stock vs stock, the S2000 is a much more serious car in every way. It is also heavier and the weight is noticeable. At the limit behavior goes to the Mazda as it handles bigger slip angles much better where as the S2000 seems to be more nervous and snappy at the limit. I am saying this though without my S2000 dialed in so we'll see how I can manipulate at the limit behavior with better setup.
You have to correct the dynamic toe in the rear of the AP1 either with adjustable rear links or an AP2 rear subframe. So far I prefer the smaller size and lighter weight of the NB. The NB chassis feels flexible compared to the X framed AP1. I think my ultimate setup would be a K20 NA or NB with bracing to reduce the chassis flex. I admittedly underestimated how good the Miata really is.
+Rockit181 Yeah it's on my list, like I said I'm not done with the suspension. Do you have a roll bar? That greatly adds rigidity and safety since the NA/NB cars do not have rollover protection. Yes, K series would be ultimate with the Miata chassis. There may come a day where I move to a 230+whp K series with this car, but I have to move onto other projects for the time being.
I have to decide what direction I want to go. Currently track a 944 (want to sell after driving the NB) and have a built GSX I'm messing with and considering a NASA TT build. Probably will have a Miata in the picture either way as the cheap and reliable track car option (either a Spec Miata or modified street/track setup). Definitely cool to see what a well modified NB is capable of. Looking forward to future videos!
I think the shift action of the 5 speed is a little nicer than the 6 but I am going to be installing a 6 speed with a 4.3 clutch diff soon in this car so I will have better pull in gears 1-5 and better cruise RPM in 6th versus what I have now with my 5 speed and 4.77 Torsen.
Hey Quinn, do you have any idea what kind of power is possible with an intake manifold? I have an 01, and would like to have around 150whp with a JDM intake manifold, header, exhaust, intake, and tune.
im wondering the same! From my research, you should be able to hit that with an 01, jdm intake, header, exhaust, intake, and a tune. throw in a 0.040" head shave if you ever have the head off. should add 5whp
Garage Quinn Motors im going the all motor route, however i have a short nose crank 1.6 im guessing would it be unnecessary and the stock pulley would be fine also the belt i have is a gates racing but oem not the blue one
I have a cam position sensor that I have to account for in front of the intake cam. I only leave the bottom cover off for tuning so I can adjust the gears. I am not a fan of having exposed timing belts. If i didn't need the CPS, I would chop the front cover and get the very sexy Maruha carbon cam gear cover in a heartbeat. instagram.com/p/BEJINO5Lh3Y/?taken-by=gqm_garagequinnmotors
![How NOT to Build a Miata - 2L ITB Miata Build [EP.1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jtd-UxkmsTo/mqdefault.jpg)
![I Drove GQM's Screaming ITB Miata On Track! [And Maybe The Rental Car]](/img/1.gif)
Awesome build man. Probably pretty optimistic but I'm rooting for you to hit the 200 mark on a stock bore/bottom end, you'd be breaking serious ground! I'd guess that would put you somewhere in the 165wtq range? Can't wait to see the results and see what the dyno looks like. Do you think you could show all of the previous dynos as a comparison? Or even do an overlay? Awesome work on the car. I've been somewhat trying to take a similar route with my 1.6T for a while now without going inside the engine, to me the fun of the R&D and the results are worth the cost. Good luck with the new tricks, I hope it pulls on the S2000!
"I shaved my fucking pistons just so I could have a little more compression" hahaha love it man. My guestimation is 177whp, 131 lbs/ft
+Cory B ;)
188hp 136ft/lb ..but I hope it hits 200whp! very impressive build
This is such an inspiration absolutely love the dedication on your build the attention to detail is second to none congrats and gods luck here's hoping u can crack 200whp though out this process keep us posted!!
Great build! 181/139 is my shot in the dark.
Love the sound
I can really recommend you to make a header tuned to your current engine specs and output goals.
This will probably give you a pretty significant chunk of extra power compared to a (albeit modified) header designed for a stockish engine.
Thank you for a great video.
My guess on power is 184 whp and 132 ft/lbs of torque at the wheels, but there will be a slight drop in low end torque though.
thats a beautiful motor, well done!
Thank you!
I think it will make 184 rwhp, and 136 rwtq.
I think the guess would probably go to you, Sam!
+Nickel Reed i think so! got pretty close!
+Sam Williams Close enough. I'll give it to ya. I messaged you on Instagram.
Quinn Kizis music
Hey quinn not sure if you are aware but I came across a german channel called sps motorsports who claim they build 225+hp ITB MX5 engines for street/track use (fully built motors). I started digging into the specs some to see if I could tell how they're accomplishing this and saw they were using custom spec'd cams from a company called Cat Cams (also some custom wiseco pistons but no specs found yet). The site is in german but the came spec sheet is in english. Looked into those cams and though there isn't much user info online I did find one video and a couple random forum posts so far reporting achieving over 190hp and good torque on mildly modded engines, ITBs, minor head porting and valve springs type stuff. I'm super fresh on the hunt so still learning what I can about them.
I was hoping if some of the miata gurus became aware you'd look into it also and give them a real shake down. If they work as good as it seems I could see your engine breaking into the 200+hp range. I don't know much about cam specs so maybe they have a ridiculous amount of lift but the dyno sheet I saw in the video looked to have a nice curve.
Dyno vid - 192 hp @7500rpm / 161ft/lb @5700rpm:
ruclips.net/video/1lj6VIuQfcI/видео.html
SPS motorsports vid: (english)
ruclips.net/video/XvmAmMwJ1Gw/видео.html
SPS Cat Cams: ("Sauger" are the N/A cams)
sps-motorsportshop.com/teileshop/performance-teileshop/mazda-mx-5-nb-1999-2000/motor/1-8-liter/ventiltrieb/
That Dyno video is very misleading. We don't know what type of dyno that is or what type of correction factor is being applied for that number. The fact that it says they are running a catalytic converter makes me even more weary. Also, there is no way they are pulling 161 lb ft of tq out of a BP unless it's substantially bigger bore and stroke. With my compression ratio I could go with a bigger cam but I'd still be shifting the power band up higher at the cost of low end. The engine is already peakier than I'd like in the current trim and if I raise RPM to accommodate bigger cams wear is going to be accelerated as BP cranks deform at 8400 rpm causing massive wear to bearings and cylinder sleeves/piston rings.
@@TheSlipAngle I was able to come across another dyno video from another more popular foreign channel I've been actually following for a little but just didn't know they were using the cam I was looking into. They have better footage of the engine build and dyno session. They built an engine very close in specs to your own although not sure of the compression ratio. They also posted very similar HP numbers to the last dyno video and seem to just break into the 200HP range.
ruclips.net/video/cT2PLPleWdc/видео.html
P.S. I'm reaching so hard because I really want this to be true lol.
Why would you not build another one? Would you suggest against someone doing so?
Hey Quinn, I have a question about the cams... Do you thing it's possible to go to the Maruha Racing 272 degree cams and still drive the car decently on the street?
Cool build, what are the valve angles for intake and exhaust?
+charles mathes I am not sure what you mean by valve angles. Are you referring to the cam timing values set at the gears?
why didn't u use the nbfl vvt 1.8? 200hp is closer and easyer the reach with that engine...
No it's not actually. The ports are the same as the BP4W head. VVT only helps low end and midrange.
is it reliable??
I love this build. what clutch package are you using with this set up?
+MrJoepawlenty Spec Billet Pressure Plate, Clutchnet Unsprung Street Disk, Fidanza 7lb flywheel, all 1.6 components for the smaller diameter.
i just put together my 2000 nb with the stock head and the block from a 2003 and i cant get it to run right do i have to buy a megasquirt in order for it to run properly
+Thecharliejolly No you shouldn't. The stock ECU can handle that setup no problem assuming everything else is stock. Sounds like you have something else going on.
Did you used to fly stuff in the military? You could be mistaken for a Blackhawk pilot.
...my bad...Crew Chief.
No sorry, but I am going for a recreational pilot's license.
You don't get any ping running that high of a compression ratio?
Not after tuning with 93, no.
I am going to guess 184 whp and 128ft/lbs
i think about 200hp ant 180-190tq :)
Hi, I would like to go for throttle bodies on my 1.8, what ones are you using
TWM now known as Borla Induction
I can't believe you don't have 50x more subscribers than you do now...
+supremewhip That's because this channel is for real enthusiasts only lol :P
Super nice and clean Miata. Sweet engine and also flat cornering too!
What is your suspension and swaybar setup to get it handling so flat?
Thanks man. I am running a set of Tein Flex with 8 kg F and 6 kg R springs. The front bar is a Racing Beat Tubular 1.125" and rear is a 99 Sport bar.
Man great videos i enjoy them a lot....just keep it this way. Btw, are you still running stock coils? Wouldnt you benefit from Coil on Plug setup for 7500+ rpm? My guess 192 whp and 137 wtq
+Luka Matijašević Yes, still on stock coils. I think people put too much weight in the COP setups. I haven't had any ignition issues with the stock coils on this engine nor on my 254 whp 1.6 @ 18-19 psi, so until I do I will continue to stick with stock :)
Amazing
what do you recommend doing to a stock 1.8 thats most cost effective but want to keep it NA
Shave the head .040, get a decent header (Racing Beat) and an ECU to tune it.
do you think stock ecu would be able to run with 0.040" head shave, and make power?
194 WHP (hopefully it's 200WHP) and 141 wtq
Also, are you running an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator? If so, anything you've learned from them, or are they worth anything?
+Striball No FPR, NBs have a returnless fuel system so I would have had to run a return line to the tank to make it work. Stock NB fuel pressure is already 61 psi though.
+Quinn Kizis Oh I completely forgot about that on the NB's, I own an NA myself and just trying to learn for future applications!
how did you degree your camshaft after the head shave? do you have the stock specs for those cams? I'm in a similar situation my self right now wondering if the timing marks will still hold up
I didn't degree them. We set the cams at an educated guess baseline and then we went to the dyno and played with them from there until we found an optimal setting.
188hp/134tq
Can you give your opinion on the NB vs the AP1? I've owned both (not at the same time) and am curious what you think.
+Rockit181 I am eventually going to do a detailed video on this once I'm finished setting up my AP1. The quick and dirty so far is that stock vs stock, the S2000 is a much more serious car in every way. It is also heavier and the weight is noticeable. At the limit behavior goes to the Mazda as it handles bigger slip angles much better where as the S2000 seems to be more nervous and snappy at the limit. I am saying this though without my S2000 dialed in so we'll see how I can manipulate at the limit behavior with better setup.
You have to correct the dynamic toe in the rear of the AP1 either with adjustable rear links or an AP2 rear subframe. So far I prefer the smaller size and lighter weight of the NB. The NB chassis feels flexible compared to the X framed AP1. I think my ultimate setup would be a K20 NA or NB with bracing to reduce the chassis flex. I admittedly underestimated how good the Miata really is.
+Rockit181 Yeah it's on my list, like I said I'm not done with the suspension. Do you have a roll bar? That greatly adds rigidity and safety since the NA/NB cars do not have rollover protection. Yes, K series would be ultimate with the Miata chassis. There may come a day where I move to a 230+whp K series with this car, but I have to move onto other projects for the time being.
I have to decide what direction I want to go. Currently track a 944 (want to sell after driving the NB) and have a built GSX I'm messing with and considering a NASA TT build. Probably will have a Miata in the picture either way as the cheap and reliable track car option (either a Spec Miata or modified street/track setup). Definitely cool to see what a well modified NB is capable of. Looking forward to future videos!
Thanks man. Good luck with whatever route you go!
I want to build mine, do you know if any good shops you could recommend?
+Chris A Chikara Motorsports, 949 Racing, Jessie Prather are the only ones I really know of that do all motor development.
Is the 5 speed a better transmission over the 6 speed?
I think the shift action of the 5 speed is a little nicer than the 6 but I am going to be installing a 6 speed with a 4.3 clutch diff soon in this car so I will have better pull in gears 1-5 and better cruise RPM in 6th versus what I have now with my 5 speed and 4.77 Torsen.
Do you use the Supermiata damper?
Yes
189hp/142tq
Hey Quinn, do you have any idea what kind of power is possible with an intake manifold? I have an 01, and would like to have around 150whp with a JDM intake manifold, header, exhaust, intake, and tune.
im wondering the same! From my research, you should be able to hit that with an 01, jdm intake, header, exhaust, intake, and a tune.
throw in a 0.040" head shave if you ever have the head off. should add 5whp
Geometry in your car ? Awersome responsible :-) thx
176WHP 131 tq.
is your crank pulley stock?
No, it is an aftermarket silicone filled damper.
Garage Quinn Motors i was thinking of getting an ati damper pulley for my 1.6
Are you forced induction or all motor? I went with this damper because it also shed weight. The ATI pulley is heavier than stock.
Garage Quinn Motors im going the all motor route, however i have a short nose crank 1.6 im guessing would it be unnecessary and the stock pulley would be fine also the belt i have is a gates racing but oem not the blue one
Why not chop the front of that valve cover off? It looks awkward covering the cam gears when they aren't covered on the bottom.
I have a cam position sensor that I have to account for in front of the intake cam. I only leave the bottom cover off for tuning so I can adjust the gears. I am not a fan of having exposed timing belts. If i didn't need the CPS, I would chop the front cover and get the very sexy Maruha carbon cam gear cover in a heartbeat. instagram.com/p/BEJINO5Lh3Y/?taken-by=gqm_garagequinnmotors
204 HP 145 TQ
Black flagged at 15:01
That was their improvised checkered flag.
ok... as long as you didn't get tossed for hooning at the track LOL nice build
Nah, all good :)
191hp and 137
195hp 145tq
189whp/138tq
190whp to 140tq
Im gonna say 196whp and 139lbs/ft
LS swap bee cheaper