New Land Cruiser: WHY does this cost $13K more than my GX460!?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Hey y’all! SO many of you have asked me for my thoughts on the new Land Cruiser now that we have finalized pricing, trim walk, and features. So here are my thoughts. And I’ll warn you in advance, they’re not pretty.
CHECK OUT MY GX550 REACTION VIDEO HERE: • A GX460 owner’s take o...
Hey everyone! Just a note for those of you saying that this is simply inflation, it’s far beyond that.
Here are the facts: in 2009 when the GX460 launched, it started at just under $48K. In 2023 the starting price was just under to $59K. That increase means that the GX460 WAS ADJUSTING FOR INFLATION over its generational run (which is normal).
What is NOT NORMAL is the ~20% increase we are seeing in A SINGLE MODEL YEAR from the 2023 GX460 to the 2024 GX550 (that 20% being the difference between two comparably equipped models such as my 2023 Premium Plus at $64K and a 2024 Luxury at $77K). Thus, the increase simply NOT all to blame on inflation.
And thank you all for watching! The engagement and discussion here is so validating that my opinions are not out of line amongst actual Toyota SUV owners.
I honestly think that you should go audi/porsche for your next car considering how insane the pricing is
@@rishinarang9966 I've seen people treat a Cayenne and the lifted Panamera as a truck, but it just doesn't feel right.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 I dont think he uses GX as much as a truck
That is a massive increase I agree with your argument 😊
I live in The Netherlands. Over here, the mid spec landcruiser (professional spec) is currently being sold for €167,000 (usd 177,000). I think Toyota has lost their damn minds.
FINALLY so tired of all these media outlets acting like 57k is a reasonable or even expected price for a super base vehicle
Seriously!!! Most (not all) of the automotive media are just advertising outlets for the brands these days that don’t want to bite the hands that feed them.
Totally agree. This is just the 1st step (MSRP from the manufacturer), the dealers are taking from you for the 2nd step. Guess what? The new GX550 in Southern California has 15% mark up, lol
That's also before ADM
It looks cool in the suburbs! That's why. Toyota knows this man
it is
Thanks Josh. Love your content. Two things: 1) Thank you for validating my very recent purchase of a 22 GX460. Before buying, I wondered if we should just wait for the new Land Cruiser to become more available to buy. (I had already ruled out the GX 550 for price reasons). This video shows why I made the right move. There's no way I would have wanted to pay what the new Land Cruisers will cost. 2) As a designer, I applaud the excellent typography on your videos. You have a good eye sir.
Congrats on the new GX! I’m VERY happy that so many of us have been able to get one of these outgoing GXs new or almost new while we could. I think even if pricing had stayed close to the same I still would have wanted the V8 and our interior. And as a fellow designer (though I’m in upper management so this is my only real creative outlet now lol), I appreciate you noticing! ❤️
Nar your completely right price for this is out of control I really really want one but can't justify the price either. I'll be doing what many of us Toyota owners are doing and keeping what I have, happily.
The reason Toyota raised the price of the 2024 Tundra by $3,000 was to position it just above where they were going to place the new Tacoma.
Except that in a lot of places they’re selling for $5-10K off because they have way way more supply than demand.
You spoke my mind; I was considering waiting for the Crown Signia to replace my 2013 BMW 3 series, but at the current pace of toyota pricing, I might as well just stay with BMW, and pay an extra $3,000 - $4,000 on extended Warranty - enjoy the smoothest inline 6 in the world for about the same money or less than the first edition Land Cruiser BS.
Yes! Read the fine print on the BMW extended warranties. They’ve changed them recently to exclude any and all technology (including headlights and safety system, I believe) which is what’s most likely to have issues as the car ages versus the drivetrain which it covers.
@@joshjamescars that's for sharing, this is very valuable. I will see if that's the case here in Canada
Now is the time to buy the gx460. Just picked up a '21 in luxury trim with under 20k miles for 45k usd. I don't want to know how much the first owner paid.
Yep! They’re a great deal! This is what people don’t understand about Lexus. They do depreciate even though they’re bulletproof Toyota vehicles. 😂
Buy the one that makes sense help them correct the price by not paying too much
Not sure either makes sense and unfortunately that would only work if people didn’t buy, but they’ll sell every one they make at these prices.
I would just keep the GX and forget the newer models. Save yourself the headache
Oh I absolutely will be. That was the main reason I bought mine last year, knowing these were coming.
Sad thing is they will probably sell like ‘hot cakes’ even with a ‘market adjustment’ placed on top of the configured price 🤦♂️.
Yep! But what’s that saying there’s one born every minute? ;)
TFL tacoma broke transfer case during mild winter offroading. That all I needed to know about new toyotas
A few other people have brought that up and now I need to go check that out!
Shit, don't forget the 5-10k dealer markups
Yep! That too!
And when you take in consideration what dealers are marking up each one at 10k or 15k above msrp….😡😡😡😡
Yeah that is a whole other issue, I would NEVER buy a car from a dealer that does that. We are fortunate that our dealer doesn’t do that and sells their cars at MSRP. The most they’ll do is charge you for ceramic tinting which most people here want anyway.
Appreciate you keeping it real... a lot of car RUclipsrs get numb to these high prices. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should buy an over-priced vehicle. I was waiting on the GX550 but not I'm 99% sure I'll be buying a 2022 or 2023 GX460. Better value there IMO.
Thank you! And I completely agree! I think the other perception I get from these RUclipsrs I see is that they make the assumption that if make the money to (truly) afford an $80K car you don’t care about how expensive it is but to your point, that’s just not right. I also think a lot of them don’t want to bite the hand that sends them to five star hotels in Hawaii for free.
My Lexus sales manager bought himself a GX460 AFTER he drove the new GX550. Draw your own conclusions.
After I heard that the the new Land Cruiser was coming out as a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder turbo. I went out looking for a 2019-2021 Land Cruiser, but those were already inflated selling for $80K-90K for 40k mile range, ridiculous! I went out and bought a 2019 LX570 for $58.k. Could not be happier!
Great choice! That was exactly what lead me to my GX460. I love the LX570 but it would have been too big for my needs.
Damn smart move! I bought 2 460s in 2022 and probably should have bought a previous gen Land Cruiser and LX 570. We’re seriously thinking about getting a 24 runner before they trash that vehicle as well.
Oh boy, I can only imagine what the upcoming all new 4Runner is going to cost
Get the current model while you can!
Based on the Tacoma which is ridiculously expensive, I’m guessing A LOT. And I agree with @edmundcharles there, or find a nice heavily discounted GX460 if there are still any lying around.
I think it'll be the "cheapest" of the 3, but the higher trims like the TRD PRO will overlap significantly with the Land Cruiser. Getting the new gen of Fox Shocks, I've heard bigger brakes, optional active seats and arb bumpers will what separates it from the LC, unless LC gets a PRO Trim.
Thank you for calling out the new ”Land Cruiser” for what it is: a Land Cruiser Prado! Too many people are totally delusional about what they’re getting.
Yes! And I think Toyota likes it that way…
I live and work in the middle east and it's offensive to see Toyota price US market prados higher than GX trim 300 seriers. On principle, no.
I think Toyota would have been best served by making Land Cruiser a trim level for all of their trucks in America. Get a 4Runner Land Cruiser, Taco Land Cruiser, and Tundra Land Cruiser.
I own a top line Prado from 2021 , my dealer is trying to offer me the new landcruiser at £25000 more than I paid for my 3 year old car. Apart from the tonka toy body the upgrades are not worth it. Owned a lexus too and the dealer experience is miles apart from Toyota. Turning up in a landcruiser at a Toyota dealer gets you dirty looks from all the planet hugging prius drivers.
The Prado is a legendarily capable machine. You may not have meant it as a compliment, a you’d be hard-pressed to offer greater praise.
100% agree! On the other hand the money value is declining very rapidly ! Our neighbor just listed their house on the market for $890K which they paid 380K four years ago.
That’s insane. I’m thankful our local market has sort of normalized with prices falling back to where they were at the beginning of the decade, but I know that’s not the case everywhere.
It’s a bubble that will have to pop. Most of the $ in the market is fake. It’s all debt held by debtors loaned by debtors. Once the dominos start to fall, they’ll fall hard and fast.
Listing isn’t selling.
@@matthewhuszarik4173 , the new cost of money will temper the shit out of those expectations.......
Good job on this one! I bought my 3rd GX (2023) in October realizing the value as compared to the new GX550. Keep up the good work!
That’s the way to go! Congrats and thank you!
Trim levels have really gotten absurd. Carmakers are essentially feature-tying midlevel trim features (eg: upgraded speakers) in super expensive packages, all but forcing you to buy the most expensive package to get the one or two things you actually want. Then you have companies like Kia who offer like 12 trim levels on certain vehicles, but most of them don't have the features you care about.
Yes! I completely agree. That’s my big complaint about the new GX. I wouldn’t buy a Lexus without Mark Levinson but now you HAVE to get a Luxury or Overtrail+ to even option it which means your starting price is up at $78K. That used to be an option on the $62K Premium Plus Model.
@@joshjamescars Then you have people like me who don't care about the sound system much at all, but to get remote start and heated seats you have to pay thousands of dollars for the bigger screen and better speakers.
Love your rant! You speak for many of us friend.
I’m sorry but with that ridiculously high price for a 4-cylinder engine on the Land Cruiser, I’ll go get the Honda Pilot Trailsport. At least I can get a naturally aspirated V6 that I know could be dogged around like a workhorse.
I can’t even fathom the idea of off-roading a $60k+ vehicle. Toyota is ridiculous!
And the whole reliability of Toyota’s new lineup vehicles is questionable. A LOT of recalls have occurred on their new trucks and Lexus vehicles.
Yes! I completely agree. And likewise at not being able to fathom off-reading a $60K vehicle. That’s why I always thought the 4Runner was such a great choice because you could buy one for $40K and it would do as well if not better than this Land Cruiser off-road.
@@joshjamescars What are your thoughts on their nee vehicles being recalled?
I think it’s an inevitable side effect of Toyota changing everything about these cars in such a short span of time. No automaker gets things 100% right on the first go, Toyota included. Especially these trucks that have an all-new platform, all-new engines, all-new transmissions, all-new technology, etc. and people who just have to be first to get these new vehicles so they can show off to their friends are going to have to also suffer through the growing pains as a result. For some people that’s worth it. For me, I’m sticking with my tried and true plug-in hybrid system in the Prime and V6 and V8 in our gas cars.
@@joshjamescars I wholeheartedly agree. The fact that Toyota has recalled more vehicles than Jeep did is unbelievable. As bad as Jeep and some Honda vehicles are, they at least stuck to their original recipe engine that’s been around for decades.
Toyota really nerfed their big trucks with 4-cylinder engines. Mechanics I spoke to said the bigger the car is, the more cylinders you need to drive and haul people/things around.
Mine as well buy a Ford maverick hybrid heaper!
This channel needs a lot more subscribers and tons more views. This info and frustration needs to hit a boat load of more potential buyers of new Toyota truck and SUVs. Toyota is inflating prices because they know how loyal a lot of their customer. Great video! Keep them coming!
Thank you for saying so! And I agree.
I agree, Lexus and Toyota have become greedy in their pricing, and what was once an affordable vehicle has now become totally unaffordable and unacceptable. I am turning away from these once sought after brands.
Yes! I miss the days of Toyota being a great value.
KIA and Hyundai are available i would argue their reliability and warranty is very good ..we decided to buy a Santa Fe over RAV 4 and for 5 years it has been the best decision and savings..I will go for the middle - tier LC though in 3yrs when most of the kinks will be ironed out
You are absolutely right, totally agree with you
Thanks and thanks for watching!
I agree, Toyota has started to abuse it's reputation - ultimately to its detriment. I opted for an Isuzu Dmax which gives me comparable reliability with more features for $6k-$8k less!
This!!! I 100% agree with you, and I love your rants. ;). I've been trying to ask everyone "in the know", on social media, if this new Land Cruiser is overbuilt like the previous LC 200. And of course, no one can say it is, because it's not! It's not the OG Land Cruiser like you said. TFL channel keeps saying how it's 50k cheaper than the outgoing 2021 model. Absolutely ridiculous. But what do I know? Not sure what I'm going to do this summer, I might just surprise everyone around me and keep my GX 460. 😎
Love the stodgy old school GX 460 platform. Lexus should have kept this model another several years and also introduce a ‘Sports Version 460’ with a Prado front end, roof rack and minimal /no side rails!
Hello! Thanks as always for watching and suffering through my ranting! And I know, no one wants to talk about the reality of the situation. And here’s the thing-even if it is as overbuilt as our GXs and the old Land Cruisers, that still wouldn’t justify the price point IMO. Because a 4Runner today will last just as long and they don’t cost $75K. And I think you should definitely keep yours, even if you get one of these new ones. Though I’d also wait a year or two and let Toyota fix some of the teething issues I’m sure we’ll have in its early days.
@@joshjamescars Great point about the 4Runners! So true.
TFL is the most overrated channel. Tommy is a bright point, but their content is so incredibly dull and the hosts love to ramble.
Simple answer is no, these 250 series LC are not overbuilt as the 200 were. The 200 and now the 300 series are built at Yoshiwara Plant in the Toyota City, Japan alongside the LX and the 70 series land cruiser, I've heard the same rumor that they were built to last further than the 150K industry wide standard, something like double that. But this is done specifically at this plant. The GX and 4Runner are made at a different plant, and that's where the new models are being build. Still reliable but these never were and won't be the "overbuilt" models.
Unfortunately it's not just Toyota, its the general attitude of entire automotive industry.
I'm not sure if you seen the latest TFL video on the new Tacoma, but it looks like they blew the transfer case in mild trail riding... Certainly calls into question the TNGA platform that almost all of these vehicles will share in some capacity. Not only are they much more expensive, but is the quality of materials and MFG process even similar to the outgoing? Like you, I'm on my 7th new Toyota/Lexus vehicle I've bought new in the last decade. Starting to think the haydays may be passing us by with the LC200/GX460/5.7 Tundra and 4Runner V6. Might be wise to start finding low mileage, single owner samples with clear maintenance history vehicles and sit on them....
Whoa! No I had not seen that but I will definitely be checking it out! Also validates my belief that even with Toyota vehicles it’s always good to wait a year or two for them to work out all the kinks… though that’s pretty bad. And then over on Car Confections their new Santa Fe with 27 miles needed a new transmission. SMH. I will be keeping my tried and true aged Toyota for the rest of my life at this point.
Per TFL it was something to do with the front differential actuator...but still concerning
I suppose we are headed into toyota’s dark era (it was bound to happen) - and nobody seems to notice thanks to these vapid automotive journalists that just echo the same talking points about Toyota’s reliability, etc. I’m not sure why they seem to overshadow what is so glaringly obvious to long-time consumers as far as declining materials quality and the price gouging that isn’t appropriately adjusted for inflation.
Moira’s scream was absolutely perfect lol
I completely agree… and it’s so sad. And I couldn’t agree more about these so called automotive journalists. I honestly think they have confused journalism and consumer advice for advertising. But who wouldn’t want to fly to Hawaii and stay at a five star hotel on Toyota’s dime.
You are 100 percent correct in your analysis. I've been saying this as well. Toyota has let their reliability record completely go to their head, and has now realized that we Toyota Truck and SUV fans will blindly buy anything they put out. I guess part of this, is the truck market in North America overall, the prices for Trucks, really across all Manufactures has become comical. F-150's, Rams ETC. for over 90-100k is bat shit insane. And people are buying them!!
I think Toyota can latch on to this trend and make Gimmicky re-boots of classic vehicles, and people will salivate over them. But like you said, the new LC is just a 4runner with a Turbo 4 and some flashy new Infotainment. - Great videos BTW. love the channel!
YEP, agreed at the prices of all trucks. Here in Texas we still seem to have some good discounts ($10-$15 off most half ton trucks) but still way, way higher than they used to be. And thanks as always for watching!!
Ye , overpriced Lexus tx550hplus, Tacoma, gx550 .
Don’t be another overpriced Tesla at the beginning then cutting prices in the end.
Perhaps the worst part is that Toyota can't correct prices nearly as much as they need to. Maybe knock a few thousand off next year and then hold steady. Otherwise they'll have an army of angry customers who paid this year's full price who are losing big on their resale value. Just like Tesla.
Ur old GX is far more capable than the new Land Cruiser as that one doesn’t have KDSS, and only comes with a rear locker and front sway bar disconnect, 69k for a cheap plastic low quality interior is unacceptable, and makes a Jeep Wrangler or a Ford Bronco look better…
Completely agreed at all points here especially the interior. And my GX is a better on-road driver though the Land Cruiser will be better off-road just because I’d have to chop up my bumpers to get better clearances for the hardcore off-roading the Land Cruiser should be able to do.
Agree Toyota too greedy so I bought an Audi sq5
Keep in mind that the purpose of the new TNGA platform is simplification of the many platforms Toyota used to built.
This will have a huge economic impact on the cost of building new vehicles under a simplified platform.
Is that savings being passed on to the loyal consumer?
No! On the contrary, a huge increase of more than 20% has been added to the final cost of these newly release model vehicles.
So I gues I am keeping my 2020 4R TRD OR until I die.
I paid $40,000.00 out the door for it.
There is no way I could afford to pay dbl or more for a baby LC 250 let alone a GX 550
The "250" is so deceptive as it would indicate it is a bit better than the 200 LC but less than the 300 LC.
Let's think about the prices for the upcoming 6th gen 4R.
The problem is people will pay whatever Toyota ask for their vehicles so it leaves people like us that want to watch how we expend our hard earned money in a dificult situation.
However, I would never buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I looked into buying one but relaiabily drove me to Toyota.
Completely agree with everything! However, if you’re unable to get over a less reliable vehicle, you’ll be stuck paying the prices for Toyota. I’ve had Fords, Volvos, and other less reliable cars and Toyota reliability isn’t the be-all, end-all for me.
Hi Josh. Love your videos! What do you think about the Subaru Wilderness Outlook? I’m a senior looking to buy a new car and the cars you critiqued were ones I was thinking of buying. But I cannot justify the price that is equivalent to a huge down payment of a house used for a car unless I will live in the car for the rest of my life.
I love the Outback! I actually used to own an Outback, years ago, when they had the 6-cylinder engine and I loved it. There’s a lot about the Outback that reminds me of my GX. The surefooted feeling of the full-time 4WD system (Subaru Symmetrical AWD), the planted feeling on the highway, etc. The Wilderness looks really great too, but definitely check out the other trims. My pick would be the XT Touring just because I like the brown leather interior option and the more urban styling but if you plan to go off-roading, you can’t beat the Wilderness! Hope this helps!
Thank you saying the obvious. I was a huge Toyota fan boy for years but switched to a 2023 Nissan Titan for the value and i actually love over driving the new Tundra
Hi Josh, thank you for the courage of saying things aloud. Raising msrps 36% after Covid and putting a vehicle "average" buy price at $47k USD is absolutely ridiculous. I am in the second year of deciding among mazda cx50, Lexus NX350h and believe it or not Hundai Santacruz. Santacruz has to go as I cannot accept nonstop reliability issues, but is lexus worth 10_15k cad over Mazda is a big question. I was hoping Toyota Crown Signia will be a nice buy in summer. Scratching my head further...
Hello! The CX-50 has had some reliability issues so that’s worth considering based on what you say about your Santa Cruz. And I think the NX is a great car but it’s expensive and also much smaller than your Santa Cruz and the Crown Signia so it also depends what size class you want.
And the other thing, they’re making many vehicles in Mexico now and charging the same price when their labor costs are half of what they are in Japan (and their QC)
Bravo 👏 Well said! RUclips needs voice like you!!! Massively underrated video and channel!
I’m from Canada, and I was excited for the new GX 550, then I found out the overtrail+ priced similarly as a well equipped Porsche cayenne! Now I’m cancelling my order not because I cannot afford it, but because the same reason you said in your video, I’m upset, maybe a little angry at Toyota/lexus. A longtime Toyota/lexus customer here.
Thank you so much! And yeah, it’s ridiculous for a midsize Toyota/Lexus SUV!? I think it’s smart to cancel your order-even for myself who could afford to buy one, I can’t see myself (to your point) spending Cayenne money on a Lexus GX! I’d rather spend a little more and get the Cayenne, LOL!
Thank you for making this video, I’m a loyal Toyota user, but I am now priced out of the market, not sure what I’m gonna do. Thank you for this video again.
If a top-end GX550 approaches $90K, I’d rather go another $10-15K and get the Mercedes Turbo V8 Series SUV!
The Land Cruiser should not price-compete with the GX 550 platform! The Land Cruised is a &45K vehicle. Why not get the 4Runner instead??? B
Yes! I’ve always said that if I’m spending $90K I’m going to go and buy a Cayenne or something. And I agree, if I was in the market for something like this, I’d probably go with a current gen GX460.
Great commentary! You've hit the nail on the head, I think the pricing are "predatory". We all agree these new generation of vehicles are great, so in order to own them at reasonable price, a better strategy might be to wait and buy low mile used vehicles. You always see lease returns pop up with same year vehicles with less than 5k miles. You did a very great comparison showing the LACK of justification for the prices, I understand new vehicles comes with new mechanical tech, but the heated seats, JBL ect should not be costing that much, all of that stuff should be standard on these LCs and GX.
I own both a 22 4Runner and 16 GX. Which btw our 22 4Runner cost 53k MSRP, I was shocked to hear your 19 was only 46! I bet there is very few changes in my 22 to justify 6k increases. It got blind-spot monitoring and Android Auto, that's probably it. I would still buy the new GX over the LC, just based on experiences with my vehicles. The Mark Levingston in Lexuses is a huge improvement, its an amazing system, that competes with other big name brands, JBL is simply trash, i'm sorry, its slightly better than stock speakers. And second biggest thing other than a V6 in the GX, is the Lexus dealer experience. I get the same treatment with my 16GX as I get at any BMW or Mercedes dealership bringing in 100k cars for service. Buying a 75k vehicle and not even getting a loaner car for an oil change is no-go, when Lexus tech bended over backwards to get me loaner new GX when I brought my 30k 2016 GX for an aligment.
Combined with inflation, this reduces the buying power for customer. If you can afford to buy an 80K vehicle tomorrow you should be looking at something like BMW X5 with a TT V8 or 6cyl minimum under the hood or equivalent luxury SUVs, NOT and slightly bigger 4 runner with a 4cyl. Which is the risk Toyota might run onto, is that some loyalists will be looking else where to spend their 80k. A 600hp luxury German SUV sounds way better.
Yes! Agree with everything here especially your comments on the Lexus dealership experience vs. Toyota dealer experience! As for my 4Runner, I bought right before Covid happened and that was the time when dealers were still desperate to move cars and so you could still negotiate a vehicle down to invoice plus a few bucks. So the MSRP on my 4Runner was actually closer to $51K I think but the dealer was desperate to move it so they gave it to me for that price. Then the 4Runner had two massive price increases in 2021 for the addition of LED headlights and again in 2022 for the 360 cam. Which I thought was absurd but it benefited me as I was able to sell mine last year for $50K. So in 4 years my 4Runner actually appreciated which was amazing. I miss it but it was the right time and to make a profit and get 4 years of free driving was worth letting it go.
Thank you!!! Yeah who pays 70k for this when you can get a gx460.
I think the GX460 is officially sold out as a new vehicle now so your only option would be to go CPO. But I would much rather have a CPO GX460 than either the new GX550 or this Land Cruiser.
I agree 110% with you Josh! I need to buy a new car next year (my younger son will inherit my car when he goes to college). I had wanted to buy a Lexus RX350, but between the price going through the roof and Lexus moving away from their traditional buyers who want luxury (following the general trend to placate car reviewers who - unlike you - generally rate cars on how sporty they are), I've decided to look elsewhere. It would be great if you reviewed some of the Genesis products, as I think they are aiming where Lexus used to be (and are a much better value - not so much cheaper, but you get more for your money). The other option I am seriously considering is foregoing a new car and actually going for a Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel wagon - I love the look, the luxury of the ride, the decent mileage and how virtually indestructible they are (no worries about having to replace hybrid batteries or screens that control everything in your car - cannot get anything analog today!). Thanks for your rant and listening to mine! 😃
I actually have a review of the turbo RX350 coming out next week! And personally I would not buy it.
Genesis is okay but be sure to do your homework on the depreciation of them and Hyundai/Kia’s sketchy record when it comes to fixing problems for customers. Right now, Genesis actually depreciates faster and harder than the Germans because we don’t have any long-term data on dependability or customer desirability. Will anyone want a 5-year old Genesis? We don’t really know. On the customer service front, Hyundai/Kia burned a lot of people on the Theta 2 engine debacle and the whole “Kia boys” theft ring. Neither of those affect Genesis but it’s worth noting how they treated customers who were affected. Both times, MANY class action lawsuits had to be filed before the company reluctantly started to do something to fix the issues. Something else most car reviewers don’t ever talk about.
And it’s funny you mention the MB Turbodiesel because I was thinking while reading your comment that you might want to go used because you could search for a really nice 2022 RX350 or 2023 GX460!
I test drove a GX550 Premium and actually prefer the smoothness of my '17 GX460 Premium's drivetrain. I can def feel the turbo lag in the 550. My 460's 1URFE runs like a jet turbine at 128k miles. Interior still looks, feels, and works like new. I bought for a disgustingly low price, certified used, several years ago.
You are so spot-on with this. My next vehicle will be a 200 series LX570 (likely 18-22). The 550 still doesn't feel or drive as luxuriously as the later 570's that I have driven.
Yep! I know exactly what you mean. I drove one of the new 4 cylinder RXs recently and it’s exactly the same way. For the money, you might want to consider buying a brand new 2023 GX as some dealers still have stock left that they’re selling with huge discounts. Personally I’d rather have that than a used LX and then drive it for the next 25 years!
@@joshjamescars I actually thought about this, but I actually do need the extra space of the LX570 over even the slightly-bigger GX550. I'm in Texas, so the vehicles down here live a pretty easy life with full dealer maintenance.
I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s very sad what Toyota and Lexus are doing. These types of pricing will definitely cause them to loose their loyal lexus base. As the owner of a 2018 GX 460 and a 2019 Es 300h, I will have to look elsewhere when considering to upgrade. It’s very very unfortunate and I hope that Lexus/Toyota and all the other car companies realize this, otherwise folks will just continue to keep their current vehicles. The car crash has already started to happen with Porsche and it’s a matter of time, before the same happens with Toyota and Lexus, unless they take a proactive and strategic approach to sell more new vehicles and keep their loyal fan base.
Yes! Completely agree here, and am hoping to keep my Rav Prime and GX for as long as they’ll run since I don’t see Toyota/Lexus ever coming back around to the kinds of cars they used to make (or the value that they used to be). Lexus has also said that they intend to be a fully BEV automaker by 2030 so we’ll have to see how that pans out for them too.
*I think the new 4runner will be the sweet spot for most. Priced 30k-50k with more "agressive" styling. The masses won't miss ekdss, SDM, or full-time 4WD... but if the styling looks radical enough it will be their big seller. Toyota is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Americans whined about then 100k LC200 being too expensive. A Landcruiser 300 GRS would retail for 120k here. More whining. A compromise coild have been to delete the GX or LX and imoport the LC300 as the Lexus Landcruiser 300... Expensive for loaded is normal. But this watering down of the LC250 is wierd... but understandable*
I mostly agree. Personally while I thought the LC 200 was expensive, I understood what I was paying for: legendary reliability, the old 3UR V8, timeless design, etc. and even though the American public didn’t think so, it was a true luxury SUV. I think for me that’s where this new one is offensive. It’s $10K cheaper but also doesn’t have any of those attributes. And the 200 Land Cruiser wasn’t ever meant to be a mass market vehicle to cater to the trends. So, like you say, between a rock and a hard place. And I think the 4Runner will be the sweet spot though I’m guessing it will move down market to become a closed up version of the Tacoma possibly made in North America.
Preach brother, preach! When a car starts costing the same as a small home, we're in serious trouble. Basically all the car manufacturers are saying, 'bend over and say ah'.
Josh, I have watch many of your videos since my interest (and now ownership) of the 2023 GX developed. And, I quickly noticed it seems you have owned many quite expensive vehicles in a short period of time. So, I was just wondering what you and your wife do for a living? I think it comes from my wife and I making a pretty good living, yet the new GX was a very real extreme luxury for us (mainly me), and considering I am a pretty old fart (66) I am trying to figure out if it is partly my frugal nature or you guys just make quite a bit more than we do. And I will add, I live in the part of the country (rural southeast) where the cost of living is probably as cheap as anywhere in the US.
Hello! Great question! I am in the software design and engineering, and my husband is in the semiconductor (microchip) industry. And I agree, the GX was a luxury for us as well given that I was 30 when I bought it, but the price of my GX is somewhere around 25% of my individual total annual income. And even with our total household income we’re still firmly middle class here in Austin! Go figure.
In regard to the cars we’ve bought and sold, we have also just been able to buy cars that are super desirable and thus didn’t depreciate. I actually sold the NX350h and the Prius for exactly what I paid for them and didn’t take a loss on either because at the time we sold each you couldn’t get what I had without waiting for 6-8 months and so people were willing to pay over asking price on the used market. And then I also actual made a PROFIT off of my 4Runner TRD Pro which I bought for $46,500 in 2019 and then sold in 2023 for $50,000 and all that cash went right into my GX.
Anyway, thanks as always for watching!
Great vid. Btw, care to hint at what you do for a living to be able to buy a 4Runner and GX in the last 5 years? No pressure though. Cheers!
Oh I’ve been pretty open about that! :) I am very fortunate work in software engineering and design for a Fortune 500 company and my husband works in the semiconductor industry and we also don’t have any kids. And thank you!
Wow, those prices are nuts. As far as the fabled, Toyota and Lexus, reliability quality, just take a look at all the issues with the new Tacoma. Toyota is definitely milking their customers, look at the taco, they move production to Mexico, where it is significantly cheaper to produce, and yet they increase the prices. Toyota does nothing to reward, loyal customers, so why should anyone be loyal to the brand? At least Tesla gives you free products and referral credits,
Completely agree at the Toyota part but let’s not forget that Tesla screwed over a bunch of their loyal buyers when they dropped prices and depreciated their customers’ brand new cars by up to 20% overnight.
Gouging will only stop when people stop paying it. 11:56 you hit the nail on the head here ! I agree 100%. Who cares about reliability when it costs you the cost of two engine replacements on any other vehicle? lol not to mention we absolutely do not know if the new turbo generation of Toyotas will even be reliable. Great video!
Josh, make sure to share your thoughts about upcoming mini landcruiser
I’m skeptical about that, I imagine it’ll be similar to the Suzuki Jimny in that we won’t get it here in the US market. I think our lineup is going to be full with the new 4Runner coming too.
Wonder who market they are trying to reach with this prices?? The Mercedes/Range Rover and BMW buyers???
Cause I bet is not Japanese/Korean/Chinese or European market....Here in Us....hmmmm...ion. The market that i can see purchasing those models are Middle east /Australia and Africa and some Asians countries but hope with a better engine not a 4 popper.
And you right abt the fact that Jeep grand Cherokee is offering all of that for a must reasonable price, and I think that Toyota/Lexus North America buyers are going to be forced to consider having a Jeep or a GM or Ford product.
But will see how the public will react.
Agreed! It’ll be really interesting to see how the global models are spec’d and priced. If they’re anywhere near our pricing it’s going to bomb in a number of emerging markets.
Toyota can’t even build enough for demand.
Nope, which is wild.
Grand Cherokee is smiling❤
The price on this vehicle is nuts. It's a 4-cylinder engine. Toyota has lost its mind. It's a 30k car at best. Fully loaded maybe 40k. I hate Toyota dealers. All of them are crooks.
The Silver Lining is that this pricing leaves enough room for a new capable 4Runner to fit underneath this "new" Land Cruiser in Toyota hierarchy. Of course it is looking more and more like the new 4Runner will be a SUV version of Tacoma; and likely made in Mexico👎!
Yes! I have the exact same thoughts… I have a feeling like you say we’ll see the 4Runner move down market and share almost everything with the Tacoma kept at the same price it is currently if not even more.
I became a fan of Toyota in 2013 when I bought a CPO'd HS250h. Since then, I've bought many older Toyota/Lexus vehicles. The most recent Toyota vehicle my wife and I bought was a CPO'd 2019 NX300 in 2022. Ever since the supply chain fiasco and people were panic buying, human greed came out in the absolute worst way. Particularly Toyota corporate and their dealer networks.
The Toyota tax isn't worth it. At least for me. It's pure hubris on their end. But what goes up, must come down/Law of diminishing returns.
PLus who knows if these HybridMax drivetrains are going to long term reliable. Very complex compared to the power units it is replacing.
Agreed, which is why I will always buy a low mileage 2 year old vehicle if at all possible. These numbers are b - a - n - a - n - a - s
Totally, I am with your comments about Toyota cars. Admittedly, these are great car, and that’s about it, don’t like the service and the jack up price, anyone paying 2,3 thousand above MSRP? With less money, I buy a locally built Honda.
Nasty... I mean I want one... but that price is nasty.
That’s a great word and I agree. 😂
pricing is bad for consumers :-( but good for toyota shareholders :-). Like it or not, toyota management’s number 1 priority is to maximize profit for shareholders. And if I had to guess, production capacity will be limited and toyota is simply pricing the land cruiser at the estimated point where they think the demand will equal supply. Having toyota remain financially strong also allows them to continue to invest in desirable future products.
This is all completely true and I hope that investment in the future yields some better products than what we’re getting today.
I’m in the same boat as you. My family which is huge all drives Toyota/lexus. They are dead to us now a days. Glad I have two GX 460s in my garage and will be the last vehicles my immediate family purchases from them. Now they decide to build a cheap ass vehicle with a trash 4 banger turbo?! People that drive Toyota products are on the smarter side and see right thru the BS. I’m honestly shopping for a previous gen Land Cruiser that are sky rocking in price. Get back to your roots Toyota or I think you might regret it
Its like anti-competition. Competitors raise their prices, the other companies follow suit and raise theirs too. China is selling midsized SUVs & picks ups for $15000. Might not be as reliable as toyota, but for that price it only needs to last a 2 to 4 years.
This was an eye opener. Thank you!
You’re welcome and thanks for watching!
The price increases suck for sure, but I bet Toyota is doing this because literally no one bought the last generation Land Cruiser. They wanted to bring the name back and actually sell a few so they did a bait and switch with the Prado for the US. I bet that they know that the market is untenable and don't care about the volume on their more premium cars and are just focusing now on the commodity Rav4's and Camry's.
Yes.
New prices on another level.
The used inventory is still good.
Less gimmicky tech.
Cheaper repairs.
Ford 6.0 gang here.
Excursion never dies.
I agree .I own two Prado,s . Both petrol V6 models . Super reliable great cars . In my country the new one costs almost double what a Pajero Sport is .
From the number of reactions it is quite visible that you are not alone. My thought process was quite similar than yours but when I saw the configurator I couldn't believe my eyes. A First Edition Toyota for 76 K! I did the exercise in building my Land Cruiser what I'd not consider top model and it came out around 70K. Then my decision going with a GX 460 2023 model seemed quite reasonable plus a V8 versus a 4 cylinder engine. A friend of mine said to this outrageous pricing: don't worry. There will be plenty of buyers who don't care...this US. There might some truth in that.
Same! I’m so happy that I bought my 2023 GX460 as well. And yes, sadly there are people who will pay the price because they need to have the latest and greatest and more power to them. I’ll be using my money on better things. 😂
Great video, and made some solid points. I agree, its tough to see the pricings on all of these Yotas and Lexus vehicles continue to skyrocket - and for what? I am an avid "fanboy" of Toyota products, but these prices are not making want to trade what I have. IMO.
Same here! I definitely won’t be trading what I have for anything new.
Perhaps Toyota feels emboldened these days with the support of the restriction on Chinese vehicles, and the hardship of European legacy companies created by the war in Ukraine, and Chinese economic sanctions. Protectionism does result in a form of taxation on us consumers.
Toyota is basically following Ford with the F-150 pricing turning what should be a utility vehicle into a luxury vehicle.
I used to be all Toyota. But the F250 Diesel for $60k is a waaayyy better truck. Who want's a turbo 4 cylinder. Toyota did that in the mid 80's. How did that work out. The gas mileage is going to be the same as the 4.0
I actually agree. Having owned an F150 in the past they’re a ton of truck for the money. Especially here where I live where they’re always discounted by at least $10K.
Car makers are going to face a dire picture. People can’t afford new vehicles. The last few years auto makers have gouged consumers. Now it’s coming to roost.
Enjoyed your commentary Josh! I largely agree , a margin grab for sure! I’m relatively new to the Toyota experience, I own a 21 Rav 4 Prime , and previously a base SR5 Tacoma 4x4. Previous to that Hondas, Chevys and run of the mill company cars . In Canada we have not yet got the pricing for the new Land Cruiser , but if I extrapolate and see the price differences (exchange) in Canada vs USA on the : 4 Runner, Tacoma , Lexus GX , Tundra …… …then I can estimate in Canada the 1958 Land Cruiser will be between $72-76 k CDN. Very high indeed!
But I have to say the resale ,reliability ,and quality will likely keep me with the Toyota brands. Jeep Grand Cherokees plummet in value by comparison, and Stellantis is using a lot more Italian, French engineering components???
Keep up the great videos…..and if you really want to see overpricing, and under engineering ,check out new pontoon boats….70’s technology using : aluminum pontoons, plywood, Vinyl, with a 200 hp Merc hanging off the back for $100k CDN. 😮
Thank you! And thank you for watching! I also know Toyota isn’t sending the base 1958 model to Canada for some reason so your lineup will start with the “Land Cruiser” trim I built in the video. Also yes, Stellantis is using more Italian and French components but for me the fact that the Grand Cherokee still has the Mopar V6 and Hemi V8 options are appealing.
Interesting. They have had the 1958 edition on the Canadian site since the initial announcement and several outlets are saying that one is going to start at $69,290cdn from just a few days ago.
@Bonjurro Oh that’s interesting! I remember Zack and Andrea of Motormouth saying that you weren’t getting that one! Maybe Toyota changed its mind so they could say that the model as a whole has a lower starting price, LOL.
canadian pricing is available from Marcelo on the “toyota world” youtube channel if you are interested.
Hey Josh! The price of Toyota/Lexus SUVs has gotten out of control, but there is still good value in their sedans and coupes. You can buy a fully loaded Lexus ES with Naturally Aspirated V6 for around 50-55k or a Lexus RC 350AWD with a naturally aspirated V6 for 60k. Get the V6 while you still can, before everything goes to a turbocharged 4cylinder engine!
Yes! We own a V6 Camry that we bought specifically because it has now gone away, and I fully intend to keep my GX460 for as long as it will run.
Sadly inflation is being baked into these newer cars. Won't get any better. Hold on to your GX and TRD Pro.
I prefer a used "real" Land Cruiser. Anything under 100,000 miles is just getting broke in.
Toyota is no longer the Japanese company that punches above its weight because it is literally the top dog in the industry. Hence the reliability premium is priced in. Good to be the leader, but not so good to be the consumer.
You're making way too much sense. Good show
Haha, thank you!
Very good video. Made me think.. But not sure Jeep Grand Cherokee compete with new Land Cruiser, likely compete with Highlander.
New LC compete with Bronco wild track or heritage edition which around $68k-75k. Real off-road specs.
I would pick LC over Bronco because of reliability and resell value. cars in general getting very expensive, specially purpose built vehicles like LC.
This is not necessarily bad thing for people who own older vehicles as likely to retain value better.
Thank you! To be clear, though, I didn’t say the Jeep competes with the Land Cruiser, I said that’s what I would buy if I had to replace my Lexus GX460 because what I want is a car with an elevated interior that’s reasonably capable.
Great show 😊 ! I just purchased a 2024 4Runner Limited, I traded in my trusty Ford F150 truck . I am so far pretty happy with the purchase and I like the 4Runner for its reliability and durability . Do you know if there is a new 4Runner coming out soon ?
Congrats on the new 4Runner! We should be seeing a new one coming out this year as a 2025 model, but it will share a lot with the new Tacoma and Land Cruiser including the 4-cylinder engines and likely will not have a full time 4WD system, so I think you made the right decision buying yours when you did.
Toyota is out of touch in Calgary i was looking at the new 2024 tacoma they want 65k for a trd sport so i went across the street to chevy and got a zr2 for 60k
This is really an odd and disappointing shift for the Toyota/Lexus family.
Going to see a 2023 GX 460 Luxury at a local Lexus dealer.
Great choice! I will never give mine up given where they’re taking the brands.
At this point, I’d rather buy 2024 4Runner with 3-5k discount now
Great review, I agree Toyota is taking advantage of loyal buyers. Only thing Jeep's reliability and service are awful, I know personally. Looking at a used X5, now instead if GX550.
Thank you! With the used BMW, be sure to read the fine print. They changed their CPO warranty a couple years back to only include the basic powertrain and no longer cover any of the technology, and I’ve had viewers who have been faced with $5K repair bills for the screen going out, $8K for the headlights, etc. I agree with the Jeep, but parts and labor on a used BMW can be way more expensive.
COme to Canada. Land Cruiser 1958 with no options or accessories all in is just of $82,000 Canadain Dollars. Insanity. I saw one at the local dealer and the salesperson said "I don't know why Toyota sent us 3 of these, we won't be able to sell them here". They had been there about 2 weeks and people had looked at them, but when they sae the price no one went for a test drive. Too expensive for what you get.
It’s the same way here. $57K USD isn’t far off your price with the exchange rate.
thanks for the video I live in Canada Vancouver went to Toyota's website to spec-out a 2024 Land Cruiser. just under $100000 Canadian WTF! cars are getting so expensive nowadays. I think i'll jest buy a Honda civic jest like your Mom did.
I’ve honestly thought the same thing! If any of our cars need to be replaced I would probably just go and get the cheapest good thing I could find just because cars are insane now and to your point I’m not paying these prices for them. The new civic hybrid looks absolutely fantastic, too. ;)
Spot on- again! I am so glad that I did not purchase the GX550 vice the previous GX460 model. Yes- the new Land Cruiser should be a $50-$65K vehicle at most and fully loaded at that price range.
Yes!! Exactly. And great choice with the 460!
I completely agree! Since 2019, the auto market has increased dramatically. During the covid times, car dealerships completely took advantage of car buyers in the used markets. Now, post covid, I feel auto manufacturers saw what had happened with used car prices, so now they’re taking advantage of new car buyers. What’s the answer, don’t buy them….i know, that maybe easier said than done for many. If you bought that same 4Runner TRD pro today, you would pay around $57,000. The 4 Runners haven’t changed much in the 15 years of the 5th generation. I’m really waiting to see what the pricing will be on the 6th gen 4Runners. The Tacoma prices are insane and not many seemed to be buying them. Time will tell…..might be time to look at a KIA Telluride…. Reliability matters, no doubt, but it matters more if I plan to keep it for more than 7 years, which I don’t usually do. Keep making your videos!
Yep! Completely agrrr with everything you say here.
Spot on. I just about choked when I started playing with the builder and realized... the build I would do for a Land Cruiser, put me squarely matched on price with a GX550 Overtrail. Holy sh*t!
If you want another laugh, price out a 24 Tacoma Off Road with the faux leather seats and detachable swaybar. What I was gunning for hit $57k.... "TSRP".
Frankly, I think Toyota lost its mind.
Choked is a great word! I did the same! And oh I know not to mention they seem scared to even release pricing on the TRD Pro and Trail Hunter grades.
Thankyou Josh! I feel the same way. Such a shame, because I love Toyota and lexus. I also believe the GX 460 and 5th gen 4runner provided amazing value for the $$. I purchased my 5th gen 24 trd pro 4runner bc I knew prices for the next 4runner would be stupid, and they would slap a 4cy in it and charge $75k. Same thing for the Tacoma, prices on the new ones are BONKERS, can’t fathom paying $50k+ for a TRD off-road or Trd sport when 3rd gen pros were $50k with options!
Could not agree more! I’m also starting to see the 24 TRD Pros and I’m so glad that one is sticking around for this year since my GX is now gone. And completely agree at the pricing on the new Tacoma. Outrageous, for a Tacoma! That used to be one of the cheapest cars you could buy, period.
You are so correct in your assessment of the new LC and GX. We have a 18 LC and a 21 GX. Neither Toyota nor Lexus will tempt us to replace what we have with what they are now offering. Prior Toyotas a 2011 4Runner Trail and 2010 Highlander Limited 4wd with combined touble free 550K miles. Expect our LC and GX to duplicate if not double that number.
Could not agree more! Everything you say here is why we decided to pull the trigger on my V8 GX and our V6 Camry. And why nothing in their lineup is really attractive to me anymore. I love the Proven reliability and absolutely buttery smooth driving of the old GR-series V6 and UR-series V8. I also had a 2012 Highlander 4WD! Not the Limited but it was one below so same interior but without the nicer wheels and chrome finishes.
They are inflating car prices for no reason parts dont even cost as much as new cars are going up in cost and they expect us to believe that theres a shortage of cars when they are doing it on purpose!
I have a 1958 LC and it's shocking how Toyota cheaped out in so many places that make the functionality and comfort terrible. These are inexpensive fixes that my 10 year old Hyundai Tucson has in them so it's not about cost. It's about corporate greed .
Yep. Spot on. The 1958 is a pure cash grab for them. They’re sitting around unsold at dealers here in my area because I think everyone went for the LC and First Edition trims.
I'm not going to lie I live out here in Puerto Rico and when it comes to off-roading as well as mud Trails Toyota is straight ass that includes the 4Runner in the original Land Cruiser 80 series I was lucky enough to own both and and jeep Pioneer Cherokee 4x4 with the legendary 4.0 V6 and between the three vehicles I rather have my Cherokee the 4Runner fell insanely under power with the V6!
75k for a Toyota? So I can sit in service for 3 hours while they change my oil nah I’ll get an GX550 overtrail for 71k and get a loaner for everything. And I’ll get a 6cyl turbo in the GX both are overpriced maybe I’ll get a 2021 LX570 for 70k that is at least based on the real Land Cruiser. This new Land Cruiser should have the 4Runner prices sorry but it’s a Prado in other markets and in my mind that means prado/4runner/GX460 money not LX/LC200 money so yeah idk about Toyota Lexus prices
If you’re seriously in the market right now, the best option is to buy one of the last remaining 2023 GX460s that are still available to buy new, at a deep discount, and to get everything that was so amazing about old Toyota/lexus quality.