Excuse me if I don't take sexism commentary too serious from somebody who called women "us people with uterus". What is the cis about? Calling yourself a woman doesn't judge or dismiss trans people in of itself. And it's not like trans people like Buck Angel and Blaire White don't acknowledge that there's a difference. "I’m black, do you actually think I’m putting out a calling card to racists? Probably 25% of my friends are gay and I’ve been a supporter of gay marriage all my adult life, so no dog whistle there either. I’m very vocally supportive of women, daily right here on Quora, so clearly not a sexist. My point is that someone who doesn’t like black people but doesn’t actually act on those feelings or “disparage them” or wish me any harm because of my skin color is of no concern to me. My life doesn’t change because of their personal feelings. But someone who wants to stomp people to death is a concern to everyone in society because they are a ticking time bomb. They are exhibiting a dangerous and unhealthy mind that can lead to violence. It’s possible to dislike people and not want to harm them at all or even express the feelings in public. Almost all of us dislike certain types of people. But if we don’t act on those feelings to cause any harm, the feelings alone doesn’t hurt anyone. But if someone says “I hate black people, I wish we could just stomp them all to death” that’s quite different from someone who just doesn’t personally care for black people, such as those we hear about on the south side of Chicago. I don’t like them either. "But I don’t want to stomp anyone to death for not liking the black people on the south side of Chicago. Get where I’m coming from? It’s like race. One race isn’t “above” the other, just different. Imagine if trans racial people like Rachel Dolezal become more numerous and ended up calling black people cis black and trans black and demanded that we all just accept that biological Caucasians are the same as black people because of how they identify. Or vice versa. That’s what is happening. It’s completely irrational. When men jokingly say “I identify as a Chinese woman”, it’s really not going to be a joke in the coming years if we don’t get a grip on it. There are people who already believe this now."
@samlerf Yeah you are very vocally supportive of women aren't you. Just completely dismiss an almost 3 hour long video about a cult that indoctrinates children into misogyny, misandry a multitude of lies and multiple types of abuse because Rachel dared to use a few words inclusive of trans people. Like don't disguise your transphobic rant under 'protecting women' when you are using that same rant to shut up those criticizing an organization that directly harms women (and everyone else).
I swear their mindset is "Screwking childwen is OKai becoz they in da family by marrwiage from you to yur wyfe. Only screw in marriage famillly!!!". And yes I wrote that badly just so I could not have my words twisted and mistaken/taken out of context. Kids should be protected at all costs. End of, no arguements. I'm so glad my second family is a much nicer religious group that gets on with this little disabled obvious-by-reason-atheist.
theyre against sex in schools because they know what would be taught by normal adults would work against the grooming they do at home. theres no real moral issue.
@@jigglypuff_foryoutube1700 I can't promise I'll be the politest other half of the conversation, but I'll bite and stay calm. Do you have any specific questions?
Imagine being the eldest child and JUST when you think you’ll get your freedom when your siblings are grown, YOU’RE NOW EXPECTED TO CARE FOR YOUR ELDERLY PARENTS. That child is a slave for life
Eldest GIRL child. We all know the Duggars buddy system wouldn’t have “worked” so well without having a bunch of girls after Josh and John-David. Jana Jill Jessa Jinger and to an extent Joy-Ana (but I’m convinced she married so young to get out after Jill Jessa and Jinger all married and moved out) ran that massive house and raised all those younger kids. I just hope Jana can move out though understand she probably doesn’t want to raise more kids abs being chief housekeeper and nursemaid. Johanna is what 16 now and probably doing a lot
@@Autumn1988Right. The boys aren't expected to cook, clean, homeschool, or raise their younger siblings. It's only the girls who are given a sibling to raise as soon as they are old enough to dress, bathe, and feed themselves. Someone in that IBLP documentary said that it's not recommended to have boys change the diaper of a female baby, because then the boy will know what female genitals look like and be tempted to touch them.
@@anonomus8709I sincerely hope she has. She shouldn’t have to be married to live away from her parents, especially at 33, but I also know first hand how hard it is to deconstruct your parents’ and majority of your family’s indoctrination(regardless of that the belief system is). If she doesn’t believe in IBLO whole heartedly then she likely constantly struggles with an internal battle over what she wants/feels she needs & what she was raised to want & feel to need. I really hope Jana and all the other kids are able to get out & form their own views (views that don’t harm anyone else preferably), but especially her because she has given up so much to her family that she more than deserves to live for herself.
I was homeschooled and my mom revealed that she almost got caught up in this type of "Schooling" but always felt that she didnt quite belong in these types of circles and I am forever grateful she trsuted her gut because she saved us so much trauma..
Glad you were able to dodge it. I did Christian homeschooling for a few years and all that meant is that I had a Bible study workbook in addition to ‘normal’ class workbooks.
Same same!! I still was on the fringes-- we would go to homeschool meetups. All girls would be wearing mermaid jean skirts and would clean and cook and the boys would play outside. I got some side eye for refusing to help cooking and wearing pants. I think my mom saw this stuff as not lining up exactly, because she was super Christian but she never made me wear the skirts and I was still expected to learn math and science.
@@sunnyandthechlosame! I had such an awesome homeschooling experience honestly. It makes me so sad that many parents use it so irresponsibly, and their kids miss out on a real education.
My Christian mom homeschooled us but I thank the Lord she wasnt a nut like these dudes (she is homophobic sadly but she allows us to use our own disernment and im trans now). We read a wide range of books by diverse authors and got to watch movies as well. It wasnt perfect but Im still mostly thankful for it
I remember watching the show and noticed how Jana, Jessa, Jill, Jinger and to lesser extent Joy because she was younger than the other girls were the ones doing all the running of the house, schooling and taking care of their siblings. In an episode their youngest son Jackson was a toddler and got lost at the airport and when reunited with his dad he was crying for Jana instead of his parents because she was the mother figure to him.
parentification is abuse on multiple levels - toward the child forced to be responsible for other children, and toward their younger siblings who are robbed of proper mature guidance because "mom" is their 12 year old sister.
Sorry this is kinda unrelated but Jana is my legal name (my illegal name is more fun tho), and I got whiplash seeing it in this context as its Greek in origin and then adapted by Slavic cultures so I never see it in combo with english 💀💀💀
@@kingdionysus1867 yah- it’s gonna become partially legal (part of the illegality was about the part that is the same as an alcoholic beverage and I’m turning 21, so not even in the US is it illegal for me to have it), but the other part (it not being my legal name therefore being my “illegal” name) is still there 😈😈😈😈
I don't remember if it was for Jill or Joy-Anna's wedding, but in one of those episodes, you see the bride trying on her wedding dress, and then it cuts to Jennifer breaking down in hysterical tears because she's losing one of her mother figures, and that just made my heart break so much
Right…doesn’t that just sound amazing. I know I hate having a miserable worldly life being treated as an equal by my husband..who shocker supported my decision to get sterilized during my C-section of my twins as I didn’t want more than 2 kids ever. I surely would be much happier as a doormat sex slave who is chronically pregnant and trapped
That is why it is so hard for Anna Duggar to leave even if she really wanted to, she has no job experience and barely any education it would be hard for her her to find a job in which is enough to feed, clothe and house her and her 7 children.
@@debbiemckeown7626- That is why she should divorce Josh. Alimony was mcreated for stay-at-home mother’s like Anna. She works also be awarded child support on top of that.
Rock music helped save my sanity in the 80s during the “Satanic Panic”. My stepmother was sucked into a charismatic church and hated my music and thought I’d go to hell. She ended up having an affair with the pastor and having his baby. My dad divorced her. Hmm. I’m still fine.
LOVE your comment! I grew up in a Christian fundamentalist sect (Independent Fundamental Beptists), and despite being a MUCH happier atheist now, I'm sure I'll keep having fallout from the crushing religious trauma for the rest of my life. The guilt and terror it inflicted led to anxiety and chronic depression I still battle today. BUT about a year ago, I began listening to heavy metal (particularly old school metal, my favorite), and I can say that NO other musical genre helps soothe my anxiety more. It's been a lifesaver, and I'm so thankful to be able to enjoy it-- and, simply, the whole beautiful world around me-- in a way that, for most of my indoctrinated life, I never could.❤ So much love to ya, my fellow rocker friend! 🤗🤘
@@melissabattles3196 Wow. That’s so sad. I’m glad you found therapy in the hard edged music too. To quote Disturbed…. Sometimes darkness can show you the light. Music helps with so much. Rock on!🤘
One time I went to a church yard sale and bought four crates of AD&D books and 80s metal vinyl. Must have been stashed away for a burning in the early 90's and eventually they chilled out and threw it in the sale pile
When I had an ectopic with tubal rupture for my 1st pregnancy, my doctor was yelling at me that I had to have had an abortion previously. She gave me a C-section sized scar across my abdomen, because she was sure she would find evidence. She didn't.
That "doctor" should've had her medical license revoked and you should've been financially compensated for what she did to you. Did you report her at all?
I was raised in the IBLP cult. I’m 24 and engaged and living in my own home now, but I still feel resentful for the childhood that I feel was stolen from me. Especially because since I’ve moved out, my parents have left IBLP, so I have to watch them raise my 6 younger siblings with all the freedom that I wish I had had.
@@leafeon-s4o I am thankful of that for sure, I love my siblings and I would never want them to go through any of that. And I’m glad my parents have changed, but it still hurts that I’ll never get my childhood back 😅
If I was in your position I'd probably resent the shit out of my parents. Probably for a really, really long time; even forever if I felt inclined. I would, however, keep a check on that so the resentment doesn't accidentally bleed over onto my siblings. The kids really have no choice but to follow their parents. I wish children weren't basically considered property in the US. It's kinda fucked when you step back and see how damaging that way of thinking is. It smothers their personality, opinions, and intelligence in my opinion.
Remember Bill Gothard was never married, never had kids either. So he doesn’t know anything about raising kids, or having a family and someone else to care about. He’s a horrible little man
I'm not surprised. The Quiverfull doctrine the IBLP pushes just doesn't work for the majority of poor/middle class families in the US, especially if they are surviving on a single income and/or the economy takes a downturn. It makes sense it was peddled by someone who had no experience trying to care for a wife and multiple little children, especially with little money. Very financially risky and just downright despicable behavior.
That's a little sus. That's actually very sus. Was he hiding his own "deviant" sexuality from his cult? It's well trod ground that the people obsessed with crushing "deviance" wind up being "deviant" themselves. I'm speculating, I don't know the guy, but we've seen this enough before to make an educated guess.
Whoever wrote that last one and whoever pushes that crap should be [redacted]. They are not people, they are absolute monsters and any harm that comes against them is completely justified and moral.
Part of why I really appreciate videos like this is because I was a Mormon convert, got suckered in around grade 9 when I was horribly depressed and lost. Videos like this are the ones that helped me to see that I'm not the problem, that this doctrine and rhetoric is the problem.
@@insomniac_mind776 it's not coincidence. Unfortunately, and I'm sure you're aware, they prey upon vulnerable people using the mental gymnastics that you're somehow helping being them into something good even if it's by somewhat dishonest means
@@nyssalynn5216 Yep. I fell into that. All I wanted to was to not feel depressed and suicidal. I fell for every one of the elders' tactics to join their religion
1:01 You spent MONTHS? getting hold of all this shit? And reading over 4k pages of this bullshit? Huge, huge props to you. Thank you. I can't say thank you enough. I appreciate your hard work on this video. This is unreal. You're a champion Rachel ❤
As a teacher, I'll say that depriving children of (at the very least access to) educational knowledge is a form of neglect. Parents aren't teachers. And this material doesn't come CLOSE to substituting any kind of actual education. Also I find it borderline dodgy to present kids with knowledge that isn't even relevant for them yet, ONLY by pre-emptively telling them it's evil. Especially when these topics concern sex, because it takes away any sense of autonomy over their own body, while installing shame and fear to keep them from asking questions or disobey people with bad intentions. It's dangerous, unchecked control, presented as protection and wholesome naivity. Makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, because children like these are set up to unwittingly mark themselves as easy targets for use and abuse.
Elisabeth this curriculum is terrible because of what it teaches but it is not the only thing IBLP uses. The wisdom booklets are an add on like many in the homeschool community use a morning basket today. The Duggars used a program now called Monarch and ACE, the Bates used Abeka and many I knew used Bob Jones curriculum for the "actual" education
Abeka is faith based yes. It may be a good reminder that religion is a human right and protected in US. Teaching kids the family faith is common across the board in US. Muslim, Jewish, Buddhists and even atheists. They all teach their children based off belief. Much of which others will disagree on.
If you are talking about Abeka's science. Yes there is a difference in historical science teaching but I challenge you to go back a few years and see how historic science changes yearly in evolutionary thought. What has new info shown us about Neanderthals making past education of them a "lie". Or those dinosaurs.... Every couple years we learn a new aspect we didn't know before that alters what we "knew" about their lives. What about Charles Darwin himself. Much of his theory was proven wrong as new information came forward. The thing about historical science is we don't have all the info and make guesses. That is why it changes and updates/alters so often. Now observable science that is testable and repeatable. That is the only clear one with no chance of " lies" no matter your worldview ❤
@@mktay2067 The problem isn't what they teach. The problem is what they withhold: namely every bit of information (no matter how thoroughly empirically deduced, tested and peer reviewed) that doesn't fit the world view of their sect leader. That in itself is controlling and manipulative. These kids are set up to not stand a chance in the world outside their sect, because they aren't given the tools to understand it. They may have brilliant scientific minds or great problem solving potential, but they are deprived of the choice to develope those skills in order to contribute to making the world a better place. All they are taught is narrow mindedness and a fear/judgement based workdview. As an educator (and even as non-biblical-literalist christian who believes we have brains and rational thought for a reason), I have big problems with that. Because of how our brains work, it is nearly impossible to make up for everything you didn't learn or wrongly learned as a child once you are an adult, as some connections in your brain just haven't been made during it's vital growing years. That is what makes this abusive in my eyes. They never get a real choice.
I was homeschooled and went to Bob Jones University for my freshman year as a "biblical counseling" major (they didn't have an actual psych department back in 2012, idk about now). I was straight up taught that there are only physical and spiritual problems, and that more severe symptoms of mental illness are either faking it for attention or a manifestation of guilt from sin. These people aren't just wrong, they actively seek to do harm to extremely vulnerable communities. Never trust a conservative's opinion about health, especially mental health. Thank you for using your platform to speak out against the horrors of conservative christianity.
Thank God that our church is very supportive of those of us being challenged by mental illness, Our pastor says that the Church has to stop stigmatizing mental illness
As a conservative Christian, true Christianity cares for people suffering from health issues, including mental health issues. Don’t let bad experiences with a few stop you from finding the true, real love of Christ!
I grew up fundie, and I recently asked my mom why she didn't homeschool us. She said she didn't feel like she was qualified to do that and honestly, I appreciate her ability to make that judgement call. It really helped when I got out
i watched the documentary with my mom , and afterward she nearly cried and told me how close we got to falling into iblp circles . we didn’t dodge all of their teachings , but we did manage to avoid the worst of it
Thank you, Rachel, for being the decent, intelligent, strong and courageous educator and presenter that you are. Never be sorry for your very valid emotions and your bravery in sharing them. I have heard people wonder why others resent and oppose certain theist attitudes, I will, henceforth, refer them to this presentation.
Hi all, after many weeks of hard work which have resulted in me dreaming (nightmares?) about the Duggars most nights, far too many late nights, and at least 2 full days of tech issues while trying to export, I'm so excited to finally share this video with you all. I'm doing a massive almost 3 hour deep dive in the the IBLP's home-schooling curriculum and other "educational" materials. The video was supposed to be premiering this evening but annoyingly, as soon as it's been uploaded it's been hit by copyright claims for the small snippets of content I used to exemplify a couple of my points and comment about. I have filed a dispute for these but I'm not sure how long it's going to take to hear back and, as much as I hate to say this, after the 100+ hours of work that have gone into this video, I really can't afford to release it without it being monetised so it's release might be pushed back a little. Sorry to potentially make you all wait a little longer and I really hope you can understand but thank you all so much for your patience (and everyone over on Discord who has been so wonderfully supportive!).
We really appreciate all the hard work and time you pour into each one of your video essays Rachel 💕 I liked how you even put in the side tangent on how DNA works; glad I learned something useful amongst all their bs! Hope you’re doing better now.
The "bitter water" referred to here isn't only a metaphor for guilt. It is from Num. 5: 20-28 and is literally instructing priests how to perform abortions on potentially unfaithful women. Even if it is twisted in misogyny, it is the explicitly pro-abortion part of the bible!
Exactly. The idea was that if the woman was innocent, the bitter waters wouldn't hurt her or her unborn baby. Only a fetus fathered by a man who wasn't her husband would be aborted.
Wait, I don't understand. Is that the verse atheists keep bringing up when saying the Bible is pro-abortion? I've read this verse & deconstructed several times... and never noticed that. Ig I thought it was a mystical divination thing. But that theory (if it's not a scholar-approved fact) still doesn't make sense: if the water was "bitter" bc it had chemicals fatal for a fetus, wouldn't its death rate be ≈100% (even in cases where the woman didn't cheat) and not something by chance used as a prediction? Why would this be a custom? (Also I like how you acknowledge it's not even pro-choice bc you'd be essentially forcing the woman to have an abortion no matter what, putting the decision on the husband & priest, i.e. two men. Bc many people just say the Bible is pro-choice.)
A lot of people aren't aware the bible doesn't count us as people until we draw our first breath. That's when we have a "soul". They didn't see pregnancy as a person, even in Bible times. Before birth, you were property (and even after, but in a different way). Abortion was never a hot topic until modern times when it was weaponized by politics/ religion to control women, suspiciously after modern medicine gained traction. Earlier times it's all known women had abortions or used natural birth control methods, without much upset from society. So much so, plants went extinct. Weird how we have more people than ever, with modern medicines, but fundies push anti choice stuff so much more. It's a control thing. Have tons of christian soldiers for the ones in power. Hence why they don't complain much about IVF even though they toss out embryos like they are having a fire sale. Why do people think they aren't completely restricting abortion? Why 6 weeks vs none at all? Because it would eliminate IVF options and plenty of people use that these days. See, it's okay to dispose of "babies" if said babies are being sacrificed for maybe one pregnancy. The woman is fulfilling her role... They get angry when women don't accept pregnancy because that's their purpose and their punishment for existing. Control everything about pregnancy, control women, because pregnancy is a big fkn deal.
Fun Fact: The Nahuatl word for "Bitter Water" is xocolatl. Which is the origin of the word chocolate. So the bible suggests giving unfaithful women chocolate. 🤔
when rachel said ‘fibromyalgia’ i jumped a bit- never heard The Thing I Have get mentioned on such a huge platform, even if it was just an off-hand comment. thanks, rachel! also, i was homeschooled for one year when i was a teenager, and i’d consider it the best year of my life. i got to spend more time with my family, with my pets, and with my friends. i got to figure out my interests and priorities and learn at my own pace (with separate tutors for each subject). i think the main difference between my experience with homeschooling and the one we see here is that a) my mother is an educator, and i am extremely lucky to have an expert like that to support my progress as a parent; b) i got pulled from school because of the intense bullying i was experiencing and the subsequent depression it caused; c) i had separate tutors for every subject i took on that we’re experts in their fields instead of my mum or dad teaching me everything. i’m very lucky for the experience i did have, and boy howdy do i wish it were universal for every homeschooler.
I was also homeschooled as a kid, never went to public school, but it had absolutely nothing to do with religion (though my mum had a few flirtations with Judaism, Catholicism as she'd been raised and even Wicca IIRC) I definitely don't think it was the best thing not to have had any public school experience, and my folks were never against public schooling, but I consider myself very fortunate not to have been fed religious fundamentalist propaganda shit
Thanks for pointing out that homeschooling in and of itself isn't a bad thing...what makes it good/bad is how well the teaching part is handled, because just as there are homeschoolers like the Duggars, where it's clear that there are major gaps in their children's educations, there's also those that have been well educated and end up ahead of their public school peers (at least academically speaking), and with great success as a result of that education
From a science education PhD student: all of your concerns with structure of the content are spot-on, Rachel. It is outrageous that the IBLP curriculum doesn't have multiple stages as kids learn. Modern learning theories are built on the idea that we need to learn smaller, simpler pieces before we can tackle complex problems. An isolated lesson about the structure of the eye is nonsense and shows me they don't really want the kids to learn about the biology, only about Scripture. The eye is one of the most complex structures in the human body. If they actually cared about understanding, there would be previous lessons on basic anatomy, kinds of tissues, and cells, in addition to some physics lessons on light and optics. Copying down diagrams is *not* an effective way to reinforce that content. I'm only an hour through the video but this is already a very well-executed breakdown of IBLP.
I was JUST talking to my ophthalmologist about how amazing and complicated the human eye is! I have pigmentary glaucoma so I'm always in her office getting my eyes poked and prodded. One thing I remember saying was how amazing it is that the light is focused so precisely into such a little patch of cells, and that tiny patch is all that's needed for us to see our beautiful universe. If it's even slightly off the mark everything is either a blurry mess or you're completely blind. It's crazy how a little clump of cells mutated millions of years ago that detected light or its absence. From there all the different eyes evolved in all sorts of different animals. Our planet, and the life on it, never ceases to amaze me.
I think that this lack of structure/ages could relate to the viewpoint/treatment of children as mini-adults (and which could be influenced by Gothard’s thinking/ justification for his alleged abuse). It doesn’t make sense to have age appropriate educational content if you believe that children and adults are not that different and that children’s behavior is “manipulative” and not part of normal development. 🫠 I don’t think it’s covered in this video but I think there’s been discussion of this viewpoint in IBLP when it comes to their teachings on corporal punishment.
Thank you, Rachel, for reminding me of the time when my highschool science teacher told my class that cells can't mutate because they would then become cancer. Her also said women can't do science because of a lack of critical thinking skills, or something like that, so...yeah...
@@bdhesse that's genuinely insane. I graduated high school in 2020 and while I recall vaguely sexist remarks from junior high teachers in the early 2010s, I cannot IMAGINE a high school teacher saying that. I would have flipped.
@@ivy7417 Someone did complain. It wasn't me, since I was too depressed and just wanted to get out, but I remember him coming into the next class to rant about how women just need to accept that they aren't as good at science as men or some shit.
As a lifelong Christian, I can confidently say that this organization is a cult. They are gross, and they have added so much to their version of “Christianity”. I can see how what they taught filtered into mainstream Christian churches. I’ve seen that umbrella image used in a lot of churches from California to Idaho, and I’m sure across the country. It feels icky to know this is where it came from, even though I never really liked the messaging behind it anyways. It seems to me that a lot of this teaching influenced, and maybe still influences, modern purity culture. That would explain a lot of why the purity culture is so toxic. I had never heard of the IBLP until I watched this show, and it was incredibly shocking.
I remember seeing that umbrella picture too! I am sickened. Those bible verses were taken way out of context. And the SA final page???? I am a conservative christian and there is no way I endorse that. I am glad I listened to this. It gave me a little better understanding of a situation my family has found themselves in involving another family that uses this curriculum.
The line about older kids looking after the younger ones (thus granting their parents more independence) made me laugh out loud. My mom can attest as to how well THAT worked out in practice, and she only had 2 of us! No amount of proper, "Christian" parenting can possibly prepare one for kids with too much time on their hands and no supervision... and access to combustible materials. That's all I'll say on the subject.
Just that line shows that they believe their children will never misbehave. They abuse their children to the point they know they will never misbehave. The duggars believe in blanket training which is terrible.
Blanket training is when a parent will put an infant (starting as early as 6 months) on a blanket and try to “tempt” the baby off the blanket with a toy or other desirable object. If the infant crawls off the blanket towards the “temptation” the parent hits the baby. This is to make the infant scared to leave the blanket and thus easier to control. It’s horrific and any parent that does it shouldn’t be allowed to have custody of their children.
@@ThePunkHobbitThat is insane, I'm surprised Ive never heard of it before. As a parent, I've always done the opposite and praised them for being able to reach the toy. Like I thought that was what you meant at first but that's just evil.
OMG, I remember admitting to a friend of mine who was into this how much money I make. I went on a holiday and she was so freaked out by my actually going on holiday without a man. Oh Lord, were they ever scandalized - first because I'm a single woman who should be married and have a pile of kids and second because my salary somehow made me evil. I was so annoyed.... Like.... Yeah... I worked HARD to make that salary.
My nephew is autistic and his parents even though not in a cult, but are the product of a very toxic ideology in Russia. They do not accept him as he is, still trying to fix him. My heart hurts so bad 😢😢😢
@@SmartStartTEFL My heart also hurts really bad for your autistic nephew. I do hope that there will be someone who can take him in and actually does accept him as he is as an autistic individual. ❤♾🌈 His parents' ableist ideologies are both unacceptable and unforgivable. 😢😞
I had/have a spinal leak since age 10 with seizures, swollen stomach, hunched neck, and lots more. I grew up in an extension of this cult. One of the dads had a severe TBI and was visibly disabled several years after we knew their family. People included him in the fake niceness way. Honestly, the girls were very catty and mean to me about my visible symptoms. But there wasn't really a eugenics angle honestly for the disabled. One of the little girls there had some health issues as well and had to wear a special helmet. It wasn't a big deal. Everybody just rolled with it. Keep in mind that this whole movement was founded upon the goal of increasing the number of white people. I've heard it justified in these groups that disabled white people have so much value in being white that the answer is to pray for a miracle to fix the health issue and usually to tokenize the disabled person. I've found that a lot of Christian groups aren't concerned about visible disability because it adds to the visible charity street cred of them showing that they're caring for the sick. IME you're more likely to be tokenized if it's visible and shamed for not taking charge of your health and conforming if it's not visible than to have some kind of extreme thing happen like being kept in the basement if you're visibly disabled. If your health manages to improve as it did for one woman in the group who went on to have a gazillion children, then your disability is mentioned a lot as God working a miracle on you and you are blessed among women for fulfilling your duty of producing lots of white babies.
I am (vaguely) Eastern European. I know quite a few kids who moved to the UK recently, or even 10+ years ago and ALL of them were moved 1-2 years ahead at school after assessment because our school curriculum is just this intense. So for us the educational gap would be even more startling. These IBLP "educational" books are a joke. I cannot imagine anyone beyond the age of 11 studying this BS. Educational neglect is a form of abuse.
Yup! I grew up in the ex-Soviet block and our Maths curriculum is insane. My mom teaches secondary school Maths, and each teacher for ages 10-11 and beyond (5th grade and up) has to have a BA in the specific subject. I can only imagine her reaction at what passes for Maths education in the US in general, let alone this IBLP fertilizer.
Yea that's what I've always been thinking about 😆 That, plus thoughts of "so if I marry a trans woman I'll be good?" It is a wonder that I didn't find out I was queer sooner!
Trans woman with parents that still call me their son here. Yeah they take better to when I bring a girl around than a guy. If it was a trans dude they'd never know cause I'm too cool to out my partner like that 😎
@@huntergoshorn8015 My ex-partner’s parents were like that. She’s a trans woman as well, and I’m trans masc. We used to joke about getting married would be straight in her parents eyes. I hope your situation improves
Marriage isn't exactly the last step here--they still expect you to be upholding all their other weird standards? So technically you could get married according to them, but then they wouldn't allow you to divorce, and you'd have to effectively detrans to manage their fertility requirements alone.
Gotta admire the work put into this. I wouldn't be able to read a single text of theirs without my eyes rolling so far back they end up locked inward, staring at the black void surrounding what is left of my brain after that.
At the end of it now and I really enjoyed the part about genetics. It's so amazing what happens in our bodies and it's really sad that people refuse to learn this and instead brainwash their kids with abusive nonsense. That last part about the molested kid very much explains why they are pretty much fine with ignoring abuse and it's about as sickening as expected.
As the oldest child that went thru Parentification, I’m glad to have a word to describe why I don’t need kids. I already did it! Also if you were to do a whole video on it, I’d definitely watch 😊
I'm so confused about the homeschooling.i'm homeschooled in Europe and you have a yearly checkup with the centre of education.they check if you're studying and if it's on level if not you have to go back to school.otherwise it's literally illegal. Do they not have that in America because this wouldn't cut it at al .
Every state here has their own homeschool laws. Some states have a lot of government oversight and regulations, some states have none. I'm in Texas and homeschooling my kids. We don't report anything to anyone.
Yeah states are all different. I'm in Ohio, and the amount of circles that have been busted for basically being cults is horrendous. One recently got blasted because it was basically a Nazi summer camp trying to indoctrinate little ones.
In my state (Virginia) it's more restrictive, you have to submit a plan and curricula for review to the local public school system, if approved you are allowed to continue and every year the kids have to take some sort of standardized test to ensure their on level, at least that's what my Mom had to do since she's starting homeschooling me this fall. However Education is mostly up for the states to decide, so some states have regulations others have basically none. The Federal Government can't actually really directly regulate Education, it can only give funding to states who institute whatever rules they want.
Homeschooled in the states. It depends on the state that you live in.The ones that I lived in during my school years (I was homeschooled my whole life, there are ups and downsides but thats another discussion) you HAD to either do a yearly test that was presented tot eh education board in your county or city, OR you could do a full on binder of the progress of student throughout that year. My mom juggled three kids so we did the yearly tests that were given to the education board.
The biology segment made me so nostalgic of when i first learned about theses topics in school! Biology is so fascinating and so complex, you explained it so well! I can't imagine having an education without studying how bodies function, it's so sad to see how such limited and restrictive information is being served up as "great" and "fulfilling" education by these fundie communities... Thank you for bringing awerness to this side of these communities, education is a fundamental right, it's sad to see it being messed with...
tldr; my school taught us how to GET pregnant, not stay not pregnant i went to an all girls catholic high school and thankfully had pretty supportive parents so i would fight with religion teachers saying outrageous shit and get called into the office a few times a year. instead of sex ed we has a woman come in to teach “natural family planning” in which she VERY misleadingly said that just tracking your period is 97% effective, i was sitting there thinking no it fucking isn’t and i realized she meant effective to GET pregnant. wow! that surely won’t lead to teen pregnancy
NFP can be used to avoid pregnancy though. When instructed properly there's an understanding that there are different methods and several variables about your body to track to determine when to abstain to avoid conception. It does require some discipline and allowing a margin of error with more days of abstinence at times, but I do know many families who've successfully avoided pregnancy for years with NFP. I will grant that Catholic schools tend to be abysmal at teaching anything regarding sex ed though. I attended Catholic school for 5th-12th grade and didn't hear anything said on the matter aside from the 2 hour talk where they just talked about periods and Theology of the Body.
It is that reliable HOWEVER only if you are consistent, good at tracking, etc. Same with the pull out method. Almost as good as birth control actually (90% if done correctly) .... BUT again, that's assuming you're with someone that's very very very good with timing. I wouldn't bet my life on it or skip other birth control if I didn't want to get pregnant, but it does work. I'm fertile myrtle yet I've never gotten pregnant when it wasn't known that would be the result. I know my ovulation like clockwork though. I'm never late. My husband is good at interruptus coitus.
My husband is from a catholic and IBLP family. Both groups are all about having a metric ton of kids. He wanted as many kids as I could pop out. Well, by the time I got to my 5th kid, I told him that baby was going to kill me. After having my last child, I died in my hospital room. Clearly they brought me back, but I knew my body was done. My uterus had enough a while back and I had it removed. So much for filling my quiver. Lol Also, my sister-in-law has 12 kids. She had trouble just getting pregnant for the 12th one because she is in her 50s.
@@sunnyandthechlo I love my kids. I was never one for having a large family (I am one of six in my own family) but I am actually glad my body refused having more. I enjoy getting to know each child on a personal level, and there is no way someone can do that with a large number of children. Five is what I can handle on a personal level. I am not a baby making machine. Lol My sister-in-law has 12 kids...12....but she is a narcissist and never actually tries to get to know her children personally. She uses them to prop up her whole good Christian mom persona.
@@catwhisperer2358 …did you ever express directly to him that you didn’t want more..or did you go along to make him happy? I’m just confused I guess (absolutely no judgement to you) but I could personally not stay with a man who would try to impregnate me again after almost dying and expressing a real fear of subsequent pregnancies. That just doesn’t seem like something a loving and understanding husband would ever do. So I’m genuinely curious how and why you stayed
@@kritkratt6383 I am a product of an abusive childhood. I was trying to make him happy. Oh, I had my tubes tied after my last child was born. I was done. I told him it he wanted more he would have to go find another woman.
@@catwhisperer2358 I’m glad you wanted them and are a good parent to them all! I can not even imagine 12 kids…I’d have so many questions. How can they afford them all and how many kids to a room for instance but geez.
I was adjacent to you this cult with my cult. My family used a lot of similar teachings as this one and much of my curriculum specifically science curriculum was nearly exactly the same. It really frustrates me because I love science and I am not really able to go into this fields now because I didn't have that basic fact knowledge that everyone got in school. So we are slowly learning and teaching ourself now
26:18 I was directly involved with the Joshua generation though, so it's really weird to be so close to this and it's really validating to have a large platform acknowledge it as a cult
I’m so amazed by folks who come up in that restriction but their independent thinking still breaks through. Congrats for finding your path and going after it. You can do it.
My parents made the decision to homeschool me and my 4 siblings for religious reasons because they didn’t trust the public school system to teach us the values they deemed important. We went to our homeschooling group and would interact with other families. There was one family we knew on an acquaintance level whose dad and oldest son firmly believed that the Holocaust never happened. Big yikes there. My parents primarily used Michael and Debi Pearl’s resources (books, audiobooks, seminars) with us and spanking was the most biblical child discipline within our circle. My mom was all about healthy eating, home cooked meals and essential oils. The women within her friend circle were all about essential oils, home births, submitting to their husbands and homeschooling their children. There was so much purity culture going on within my friend circle: purity rings, purity talks, that sort of thing. Having a child outside of wedlock was deeply frowned down upon (two girls still did, though). I’ve have so many stories, y’all ❤ Fantastic video, Rachel.
I’m a test tube baby and just hearing you read what these people think about fertility treatments enraged me. Just the thought of someone telling my mom, who went through all kinds of expensive and painful procedures to have a family, that what she did is an offense against God is revolting. She herself is religious and believes that God’s grace is what gave her my brother and me. I can only imagine heartbroken she would be if a religious leader told her that.
If only the Duggars would read this chapter from the Bible: “Do not desire a multitude of useless children, nor rejoice in ungodly sons. If they multiply, do not rejoice in them, unless the fear of the Lord is in them. Do not trust in their survival, and do not rely on their multitude; for one is better than a thousand, and to die childless is better than to have ungodly children. For through one man of understanding a city will be filled with people, but through a tribe of lawless men it will be made desolate. Many such things my eye has seen, and my ear has heard things more striking than these.” Wisdom of Sirach 16:1-5 Sadly these worthless IBLP don’t read the entire Bible.
They probably wouldn't read (much less accept) that quote because the Book of Sirach is not included in the versions of the Bible most fundamentalist denominations use. Many will not accept anything outside of those versions as biblical and may not even know about the existence of other books. I grew up Southern Baptist and never heard about the Book of Sirach, so I assume it was the same for the Duggars. Also, the IBLP would do anything to keep its members from believing something like that because it would contradict the Quiverfull doctrine they push. The members might stop having so many children, meaning there will be less people indoctrinated by the IBLP that can be pushed into the American political system.
@@spaghetto9836 it’s in most Christian bibles outside of Evangelical and non-Anglican protestant bibles. The Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans, Coptics and Church of the East all have this in their canon. The original Greek Septuagint that the Jews were using at the time of Christ, since Hebrew had fell out of use with the Aramaic speaking Jews in Israel and surround diaspora. Sirach was also originally in the King James Bible but in a separate area called Apocrypha and labeled as “useful for teaching but not arising to the degree of scripture. Which is why most Evangelicals removed it entirely. The Septuagint is much older than the Masoretic manuscripts. Which is why the King James translators utilized it in addition to the Masoretic when translating.
"Abused children are more likely to have been wanted by their parents than children who are not abused" The way my jaw DROPPED at these mental gymnastics
I haven’t gotten there in the vid but I’m fascinated by the psychological reasons. Like placing your happiness on this kid and therefore lashing out and being harmful to them when you aren’t satisfied, happy or fulfilled? So many rabbit holes to go down with a topic like that!
it’s always baffled me how these people can be so ‘the body is divine’ and we’re all made perfect in gods image or whatever, but then turn around and say ‘except for the tip of these boys penises, they have to go’ like what happened to being made perfect and not altering gods design??
I think in Judaism the foreskin thing is a blood covenant. It’s a visible mark of your relationship with god. So it’s not about correcting a mistake or a flaw, but a sacrifice of sorts. And I suspect also about making a physical difference between “us” and “them”. So that’s at least that logic. I don’t know much about these radical Christian groups or about their teachings around circumcision.
@@MissCaraMint Fun fact: circumcision among Christians was made popular by people like John Harvey Kellogg (yes, the cereal man) because they thought circumcision reduced the pleasure of masturbation.
The lack of education these kids get is terrifying (especially the thought of these kids growing up on this to then teach their own kids) For most of my schooling primary to high school I had very fragile health because of a very weakened immune system I normally missed around a full terms worth of school each year, especially after getting whooping cough when I should have been starting intermediate (Middle school) I was unable to attend any of that first term. I was lucky however that my parents worked very hard to make sure I had tutors for the subjects I was missing out on and even managed to find a 'hospital school' for children with health issues. I asked my Mum once why they hadn't just home-schooled me? She said that she didn't feel she would have been able to give what I needed as a teacher so she went and found as much outside help from people who were more qualified to help. Also as someone with autism who tends to take a lot of things at face value/seriously I feel like if id had to deal with "School books" like these I probably would have spent most of my time either terrified or confused.
While there are many concerns and rightly so , the conversation about wisdom booklets and education is false at least in regards to the Duggars and many IBLP families. The families used it as an add in. Duggars used Monarch and ACE curriculum, Bates used Abeka and many I knew used Bob Jones.
It seriously must be even more terrifying being neurodivergent in this group because none of these people believe in any kind of what they’d consider “special treatment” and if you expressed that you’re having a hard time you’d probably be told to stop making excuses for yourself and just pray to god to heal you. Truly sad and disturbing
Thank you for your in depth, researched, well articulated points. I'm so glad that not everyone is just "omg wow so bad time to insult this person" like if the person deserves it you will, but you also don't make that judgement lightly. Idk I really appreciate your voice being put out there. It makes me feel heard, as weird as that is.
Totally fascinating and terribly sad how close but wrong they are in all those sections about chronic pain or illness. They blame it on guilt that proves that the individual is sinful and must have done something wrong, when yeah, chronic stress due to *imposed* shame and guilt, lack of boundaries, etc could totally contribute to a compromised immune system, chronic pain, or autoimmune disorers...
I homeschool my children and remember being encouraged to look onto this "curriculum" when my boys were young. I never looked deeply into it, because I didn't want to teach my children from a "faith-based" curriculum that would deny exposure of important facts and theories that would be excluded from a faith-based curriculum, but are otherwise common knowledge. This was nearly a decade ago that I made this choice and I am SO thankful I never threw money away on this garbage. I appreciate your in-depth review/critique of such a dangerous material that is far more pervasive than people realize (I live in a conservative part of Texas and there are A LOT of people who subscribe to a lot of the stuff that comes out of the IBLP, and people like the Duggars and the Pearls... I can't tell you how many mothers I know who subscribe to the Pearls' parenting philosophies and have essentially encouraged me to abuse my children because of their horrible book...)
I started reading blood meridian the other day, I don't know if it's gonna be as disturbing as this video, luckily both are looking to be amazing. Also shout out to ex fundie diaries, who grew up in a Christian fundamentalist family and now makes great videos about what was living there and her traumas
Every time you reminded me that the Wisdom books are for children broke my heart further. The content is not suitable for anyone let alone a child, but the sexism and sexual assault sections were infuriating.
As someone who went through childhood SA and was raised almost all the way in this cult, thank you for talking about this and exposing them. People need to know how absolutely evil these teachings are. That kind of stuff doesn’t always heal right and I’ll probably always be a little messed up because of it. You put an astonishing amount of work into this research and video, and I have so much respect, admiration and gratitude for that. Thank you!
I appreciate this discussion a lot. I have quite a bit religious & purity culture trauma I’m working through and hearing others discuss these organizations and people that affected my young life really help me. 22:55 Also, I really like this background 💜
There’s just no way Michelle is able to have any deep connection with her children the same way most of us parents feel a deep connection to our children. They don’t see their children as living, breathing autonomous beings- the children are their property & slaves. 😭
That's because she has that connection with God and Jim Bob, she is not meant to have meaningful relationships with her kids, so she doesn't. Her sole purpose in life is to open her legs for her husband, so he is satisfied and bear children.
I was raised in the IBLP community and seeing these books in depth again takes me back. It’s enlightening to see an outside perspective on the whole thing in retrospect. Thank you for this break down, excellent as always
I finally saw a video of yours when it released. This was such a well-researched video, even if I’ll never stop begging the powers that be that you not give dissenting opinions a speech impediment. I’m not a hateful psychopath for having problems with articulation.
28:59 "Divorce today requires civil action, and Scripture clearly condemns going to law before unvelievers." Wait, so they're saying that it's perfectly okay to be married "before unbelievers" (civil marriage) but it suddenly becomes un-biblical to go through the law when it comes to civil divorce?? The hypocrisy! They need to pick a side and stick to it.
My mom was a nurse: not a teacher. But she was able to figure out through research which ways her kids learned: what grade level they were in; multiple grade depending on subject and where to buy them. A parent will take the time to know their kid and what they need. That is homeschooling done correctly.
Teaching people that the only reason for surgery is cancer and that "exploratory surgery" is bad is honestly the weirdest thing in this. Like... exploratory surgery is used to _diagnose_ cancer so that you can then surgically remove it. I've read and heard a LOT of conservative Christian ideology growing up, none of this surprised me up until that, that one's just fucking weird.
This will be a weird take. I'm agnostic, living in Europe. I've been always weirded out by all the history of the Catholic church. Years before I was talking with a devoted catholic about the need for the Pope, theology and catholic ceremonies. He argued that all of that is needed, because without it anyone could interpretate the Bible in any weird and toxic way. The more I hear about fundamental christians in the US, the more I agree with him. Of course the Church has done some evil, and of course I don't agree with a lot of their teachings, but it still seems to be more safe for people with a religious need.
I'm pretty sure America was founded on religious outcasts that wanted to practice their way. Figured it was the reason they have so many different denominations or sects which all are kinda similar but not.
@@Dobbyisfreelmao you would need to universal consensus on what those ethics should be and no one will agree on that, same way no one can agree on how to worship the same god, kinda silly in my opinion.
@@TS-oz3ec I didn't say teach people to think the same way. It's supposed to make people think for themselves and understand the consequences of their actions, open up intellectual conversation about human nature. Instead of looking to ancient outdated texts that lead them down a path of bigotry and fanaticism at worst, simple minded ignorance at best. If someone wants to practice their religion, cool. I still think we'd gain more from replacing it with ethics. There are a lot of useful skills future generations could develop, if people stopped threatening them with eternal damnation if they don't do what the religious doctrines say - that they get indoctrinated with at a young age and don't even understand by the way - and do their best to please some invisible deity
I was an ex-catholic before I became ex-christian altogether. There's a flip side with progressive Christianity. I'm gonna disagree with your friend there, especially since a fair amount of catholics, but obviously not all or most, have fundamentalist thoughts & opinions.
Imagine… probably happened already: a mum dies during childbirth and leaves her 12 children and newborn to father and the eldest. My personal nightmare :(
It was really interesting to hear your brief aside about the differing levels of teaching for American kids vs those in the UK. Even here, it's hard to have a "standard" or average because different states can have different standards, and having a school in a wealthier area makes an astonishing difference as to what is taught. My husband and I both went to public high schools within 20 miles of each other and our experiences were vastly different. I was also a kid who had always taken honors level classes since elementary school, so I had even more of an advantage in that regard. There were extreme differences in our assignments and expectations for school. I would be interested to see what's "average" for a student at different grade levels in the UK.
Although the quality of education definitely depends on what school you go to in the UK, I do think it's a good thing that there are only a handful of exam boards for the entire country that offer similar syllabuses. It levels the playing field for what students have the opportunity to learn.
Thank you for making such an informative video and actually going into this stuff that is contained in the books. I haven’t really seen anything covering that and while I realize it was probably frustrating I am grateful for you to take the time to do that and now I never have to even consider looking at it myself. 😅
As someone who just had a miscarriage, blaming it on yourself is an awful way to think. There are also so many different kinds of miscarriages, and most of the ones in the first trimester that happen weren't viable in the first place. Mildly related, it's terrifying that the medication I needed to make sure I could try again as soon as possible without risking infection and other issues would be made illegal in some southern states because it's also used for abortion.
this content would be hilarious if it was a parody; weird if just odd things from the past ; but with all the lives affected, and still being in use today they are merely horrific
My parents have 7 biological children, talking with my mother recently, they truly did not understand how birth control worked. I think that the improvements in sex education has really made a difference. And as always if you have the parts to get pregnant and your partner does too, you could get pregnant. Always use an additional method of bc, usually add a condom.
My mom thought that it caused abortion. Even when I explained it to her 30 years later she still kinda think that. She supports the right to choose though, so she’s just a little confused.
I’d love to see a video on parentification. Sorry if I spelled it wrong. I’m 11 and 13 years older than my siblings. Most of my family has said my parents had me doing way too much for the kids. I remember I’d make plans with friends and my mom would say she needed me to watch the kids instead. It happened all the time. I never really got to enjoy my teenage years…
I needed that Kyra-cleanse a little more than halfway through, she is so precious 😭🫶 Such a snorty lil baby. Amazing video as always, Rachel!! Love when you get the chance to do longer videos, I’m so happy all of the monetization got sorted out.
The difference in our education systems is that the US is wildly inconsistent. Because I was so shocked at how easy my classes were when I studied abroad in Italy (not STEM I feel like STEM was pretty consistent from what I saw from those student’s classes), and my sister had a similar experience when she studied abroad in Scotland. But in the US it’s the highest of highs and the lowest lows in terms of quality and not much in between. It’s all just a lottery of where you are born and to who. Would be so much better if everyone just got a good education.
17:30 I am an English teacher in a public high school in New York City with 23 years of experience. I was also reading and writing at age 3 independently before starting school and in advanced classes throughout my education, so I, like you, struggle with making sense of what kids learn in what grades. If it helps, I went to public school in NYC from 1982-1995 and things were WAY more advanced than what today’s curriculums look like! The stuff I am told to assign to kids in year 11 is akin to what I was asked to complete in grade 3. Nevertheless, OMG Rachel, I have been waiting for this video since I saw it coming up on my app and I am SO happy you’re covering this!!!!!😊🎉
I can't handle watching this or I'll have a very bad PTSD week, but I was in the ATI and IBLP. Whats known by the public isnt nearly all there is to know because shame and trauma keeps victims quiet. We were essentially trained to have visceral negative responses to even thinking about getting help. Learned helplessness and pavlovian response combined if you will. The amount of sexual abuse and physical violence is insane. EVERY home had at least physical abuse, many sexual as well. The physical abuse was quite lierslly a requirement. It was one of the handbooks. I wish i had it for evidence, but years after my mom said she was out for good i found the handbooks in a box "just in case" and set them all on fire.
i was homeschooled and in IBLP from 3rd to 6th grade. i cant watch this documentary, but im going to try to watch this video because i like your content rachel. im in a support group for survivors where this video was shared a while back but i wasnt ready. thank you for posting this
Please don’t force yourself into anything you’re not ready for, take your time and listen to your body and your needs :) I’m so happy you have your support group now, I really hope you’re doing ok! ❤️
Months? How about Years?!!! Especially the work you have given to the fundamentalist world. The Pearls themselves were very big in the IBLP scene, let alone all of the other books that you have gone over. More power to you for doing something that many people simply don't have the skills to do.
The ending section in particular... wow. I couldn't imagine writing such things about victims. This is such a heavy video, and it's so, so helpful to see this analysis. My family wasn't quite this bad, but I feel like I've been on the edge of this sort of content most of my life, and trying to find a way out is tough. I really appreciate the time you've put into this. It means a lot.
The RUclips algorithm has recently introduced me to you -> Reads with Rachel -> Fundie Fridays, so at this point I guess I should actually take the time to watch this dang documentary before I consume several more hours covering them here. Makes sense given that it just came out but I really did not expect to learn so much about these people I haven’t thought about in years this week!
Homeschooling is so controversial. I want to homeschool my son because the more so read about elementary school and the way reading is taught I do not want him there. Plus the mass violence threat. But I know people will judge him, even if we use coops and socialize. People like this give homeschool a bad name.
Let me say this, as someone who is autistic and went through public school up to nearly the end of 10th grade: If your son is autistic, DO IT. If your son is neurodivergent/mentally disabled in any way, DO IT. I can't speak for everyone, and regular school may be an okay option for your son. But in my and many other's experiences, homeschool (if done correctly) can be a literal and figurative lifesaver. I'm not going to assume anything about you based on your decision, but I can say that being homeschooled is the best thing that has ever happened to me.
i genuinely got depressed when she said “is employee insurance still a thing?” oh how i wished i lived in a country where employee insurance is a foreign concept 💀
I was in Catholic high school. We were also told that a children who survived an abortion were killed. we also watched an interview of a woman who was aborted and lived. She has some severe disabilities.
It sounds more like you were in a FAKE Catholic Cult High School! REAL Catholics don't believe in abortion, and they're told they're "Going to Hell," just because they made a mistake! That woman you watched in that interview is BOTH physically and emotionally scarred for life!
The schooling one is interesting. My niece went to school in Germany for 3 years, got back to the US as an 8th grader and they told her she has the knowledge of an 11th grader.
This stuff is crazy. I would love a video on the parentification of children. I think it isn't talked about enough and should be discussed more. I've seen people say how being "mentally/emotionally older" at a young age is admirable but it really isn't. This is a child who should be allowed to enjoy the simple pleasures of childhood, not be forced into adulthood so soon in life.
I'm a perfectionist myself, but people are more important than achievements! The IBLP cult expects people to behave like "perfect robots" instead of normal human beings!
Rachel, I would be very interested in your review of Jill Duggar's most recent book. I found it to be a fascinating reflection of someone who escaped the cult of IBLP (her words), and the toxicity of reality TV and child exploitation whilst also still loving her family and reflecting on how she balances those conflicting feelings and experiences.
The very last segment is hands down the most horrific thing I've heard in recent memory. Victim blaming a FOUR YEAR OLD is a new low. I can't believe these people think like this and somehow convince others to think like this as well
The SA sections towards the end 100% read like the sort of things religious abusers would tell themselves to justify what they did. Genuinely terrifying.
In the US, education is determined by each state's government and so it can be extremely diverse. For example, the kind of education one would get in Massachusetts or New York would much better prepare students for a post-secondary education compared to one in Louisiana or Georgia. Even within states, one's ZIP (Postal) Code can drastically affect the funding a school has where those with wealthier households will have much greater access to resources compared to poorer ones.
Yes, because public schools are generally funded off property taxes, poorer areas will almost always end up with worse schools than wealthier areas even before you get into other reasons why that would be the case. My experience with public education [good] was wildly different from my husband's [bad] due to both wealth disparities in our hometowns combined with different state education standards.
If you ever heard about the A.C.E program, it's a biblical homeschooling curriculum that is super regressed, like it teaches segregation, rewrites history to better suit their agenda and over all pretty similar to this one.
2:22 talking about venereal disease not being effectively treated by antibiotics anymore - it's almost as if the bacteria mutated over time to become resistant to this medication... maybe even... evolved?
I was raised with these books and isolated from “the sinful world” in my home”schooling”. I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your spreading awareness and methodical approach to breaking apart the “workbooks” for the indoctrination that they truly are. Thank you, this video must’ve taken a lot of time and they are such a headache to read 😂
Wow Rachel bless you for subjecting yourself to those wisdom booklets. Much respect. I thought about looking up a few to skim, but idk if I have the dedication you do. Power to you, this is so impressive!
Great video, fully agree with all of Rachel’s concerns about the learning materials If anyone is interested, the channel/podcast cults to consciousness has done very good interviews with survivors of IBLP and other cults
I wasn’t homeschooled through ATI, but I know way more than I’d like to about Christian fundamentalism and the Christian homeschooling movement in the U.S., and this is the first IBLP-related video I’ve audience from someone who wasn’t at least IBLP-adjacent that didn’t have me muttering corrections at the screen throughout. This is really good work! I’d love to see your take on other popular fundie curriculums, such as Abeka, A.C.E., and BJU Press! Love the background btw
UPDATE: The copyright claims have been released so it's going out only a little later than planned! Thanks for your patience everyone!! 😃
Allelulia!
Excuse me if I don't take sexism commentary too serious from somebody who called women "us people with uterus". What is the cis about? Calling yourself a woman doesn't judge or dismiss trans people in of itself. And it's not like trans people like Buck Angel and Blaire White don't acknowledge that there's a difference.
"I’m black, do you actually think I’m putting out a calling card to racists? Probably 25% of my friends are gay and I’ve been a supporter of gay marriage all my adult life, so no dog whistle there either. I’m very vocally supportive of women, daily right here on Quora, so clearly not a sexist.
My point is that someone who doesn’t like black people but doesn’t actually act on those feelings or “disparage them” or wish me any harm because of my skin color is of no concern to me. My life doesn’t change because of their personal feelings.
But someone who wants to stomp people to death is a concern to everyone in society because they are a ticking time bomb. They are exhibiting a dangerous and unhealthy mind that can lead to violence. It’s possible to dislike people and not want to harm them at all or even express the feelings in public. Almost all of us dislike certain types of people. But if we don’t act on those feelings to cause any harm, the feelings alone doesn’t hurt anyone.
But if someone says “I hate black people, I wish we could just stomp them all to death” that’s quite different from someone who just doesn’t personally care for black people, such as those we hear about on the south side of Chicago. I don’t like them either.
"But I don’t want to stomp anyone to death for not liking the black people on the south side of Chicago. Get where I’m coming from?
It’s like race. One race isn’t “above” the other, just different. Imagine if trans racial people like Rachel Dolezal become more numerous and ended up calling black people cis black and trans black and demanded that we all just accept that biological Caucasians are the same as black people because of how they identify. Or vice versa. That’s what is happening. It’s completely irrational.
When men jokingly say “I identify as a Chinese woman”, it’s really not going to be a joke in the coming years if we don’t get a grip on it. There are people who already believe this now."
@@samlerfBuck and Blaire are neo-con grifters who blatantly lie and disrespect even children
@@samlerfwhat does this have to do with the comment you’re replying to?
@samlerf
Yeah you are very vocally supportive of women aren't you. Just completely dismiss an almost 3 hour long video about a cult that indoctrinates children into misogyny, misandry a multitude of lies and multiple types of abuse because Rachel dared to use a few words inclusive of trans people.
Like don't disguise your transphobic rant under 'protecting women' when you are using that same rant to shut up those criticizing an organization that directly harms women (and everyone else).
The degree of discussion of lust, marriage, defining sex sins and bringing up children - from people who are against any 'sexualisation' in schools!!
I swear their mindset is "Screwking childwen is OKai becoz they in da family by marrwiage from you to yur wyfe. Only screw in marriage famillly!!!".
And yes I wrote that badly just so I could not have my words twisted and mistaken/taken out of context. Kids should be protected at all costs. End of, no arguements.
I'm so glad my second family is a much nicer religious group that gets on with this little disabled obvious-by-reason-atheist.
I agree
theyre against sex in schools because they know what would be taught by normal adults would work against the grooming they do at home. theres no real moral issue.
@@Roadent1241I’d love to talk to you about God, since you said you’re an atheist!
@@jigglypuff_foryoutube1700 I can't promise I'll be the politest other half of the conversation, but I'll bite and stay calm. Do you have any specific questions?
Imagine being the eldest child and JUST when you think you’ll get your freedom when your siblings are grown, YOU’RE NOW EXPECTED TO CARE FOR YOUR ELDERLY PARENTS. That child is a slave for life
Eldest GIRL child.
We all know the Duggars buddy system wouldn’t have “worked” so well without having a bunch of girls after Josh and John-David.
Jana Jill Jessa Jinger and to an extent Joy-Ana (but I’m convinced she married so young to get out after Jill Jessa and Jinger all married and moved out) ran that massive house and raised all those younger kids.
I just hope Jana can move out though understand she probably doesn’t want to raise more kids abs being chief housekeeper and nursemaid. Johanna is what 16 now and probably doing a lot
Hell to the no, they're getting stuck in a home
@@Autumn1988Right. The boys aren't expected to cook, clean, homeschool, or raise their younger siblings. It's only the girls who are given a sibling to raise as soon as they are old enough to dress, bathe, and feed themselves. Someone in that IBLP documentary said that it's not recommended to have boys change the diaper of a female baby, because then the boy will know what female genitals look like and be tempted to touch them.
@@Autumn1988there’s a rumor that Jana may have moved out. I don’t blame her- long time coming and she deserves to live her own life for a change.
@@anonomus8709I sincerely hope she has. She shouldn’t have to be married to live away from her parents, especially at 33, but I also know first hand how hard it is to deconstruct your parents’ and majority of your family’s indoctrination(regardless of that the belief system is). If she doesn’t believe in IBLO whole heartedly then she likely constantly struggles with an internal battle over what she wants/feels she needs & what she was raised to want & feel to need. I really hope Jana and all the other kids are able to get out & form their own views (views that don’t harm anyone else preferably), but especially her because she has given up so much to her family that she more than deserves to live for herself.
I was homeschooled and my mom revealed that she almost got caught up in this type of "Schooling" but always felt that she didnt quite belong in these types of circles and I am forever grateful she trsuted her gut because she saved us so much trauma..
Glad you were able to dodge it. I did Christian homeschooling for a few years and all that meant is that I had a Bible study workbook in addition to ‘normal’ class workbooks.
Same same!!
I still was on the fringes-- we would go to homeschool meetups. All girls would be wearing mermaid jean skirts and would clean and cook and the boys would play outside. I got some side eye for refusing to help cooking and wearing pants.
I think my mom saw this stuff as not lining up exactly, because she was super Christian but she never made me wear the skirts and I was still expected to learn math and science.
@@sunnyandthechlosame! I had such an awesome homeschooling experience honestly. It makes me so sad that many parents use it so irresponsibly, and their kids miss out on a real education.
My Christian mom homeschooled us but I thank the Lord she wasnt a nut like these dudes (she is homophobic sadly but she allows us to use our own disernment and im trans now). We read a wide range of books by diverse authors and got to watch movies as well. It wasnt perfect but Im still mostly thankful for it
YES! I remember reading ahead and being terrified of nuclear armageddon on the late 90s, unaware that the Soviet Union had already fallen in 1991.
I remember watching the show and noticed how Jana, Jessa, Jill, Jinger and to lesser extent Joy because she was younger than the other girls were the ones doing all the running of the house, schooling and taking care of their siblings. In an episode their youngest son Jackson was a toddler and got lost at the airport and when reunited with his dad he was crying for Jana instead of his parents because she was the mother figure to him.
parentification is abuse on multiple levels - toward the child forced to be responsible for other children, and toward their younger siblings who are robbed of proper mature guidance because "mom" is their 12 year old sister.
Sorry this is kinda unrelated but Jana is my legal name (my illegal name is more fun tho), and I got whiplash seeing it in this context as its Greek in origin and then adapted by Slavic cultures so I never see it in combo with english 💀💀💀
@@venusgin7779Illegal name? That gave me a good chuckle.
@@kingdionysus1867 yah- it’s gonna become partially legal (part of the illegality was about the part that is the same as an alcoholic beverage and I’m turning 21, so not even in the US is it illegal for me to have it), but the other part (it not being my legal name therefore being my “illegal” name) is still there 😈😈😈😈
I don't remember if it was for Jill or Joy-Anna's wedding, but in one of those episodes, you see the bride trying on her wedding dress, and then it cuts to Jennifer breaking down in hysterical tears because she's losing one of her mother figures, and that just made my heart break so much
Just what I want! To be pregnant, jobless, and uneducated for my entire life!
literal worst nightmare scenario
Right…doesn’t that just sound amazing. I know I hate having a miserable worldly life being treated as an equal by my husband..who shocker supported my decision to get sterilized during my C-section of my twins as I didn’t want more than 2 kids ever.
I surely would be much happier as a doormat sex slave who is chronically pregnant and trapped
That is why it is so hard for Anna Duggar to leave even if she really wanted to, she has no job experience and barely any education it would be hard for her her to find a job in which is enough to feed, clothe and house her and her 7 children.
@@debbiemckeown7626- That is why she should divorce Josh. Alimony was mcreated for stay-at-home mother’s like Anna. She works also be awarded child support on top of that.
They really do know what all women secretly dream of 🙄
Rock music helped save my sanity in the 80s during the “Satanic Panic”. My stepmother was sucked into a charismatic church and hated my music and thought I’d go to hell. She ended up having an affair with the pastor and having his baby. My dad divorced her.
Hmm. I’m still fine.
LOVE your comment! I grew up in a Christian fundamentalist sect (Independent Fundamental Beptists), and despite being a MUCH happier atheist now, I'm sure I'll keep having fallout from the crushing religious trauma for the rest of my life. The guilt and terror it inflicted led to anxiety and chronic depression I still battle today. BUT about a year ago, I began listening to heavy metal (particularly old school metal, my favorite), and I can say that NO other musical genre helps soothe my anxiety more. It's been a lifesaver, and I'm so thankful to be able to enjoy it-- and, simply, the whole beautiful world around me-- in a way that, for most of my indoctrinated life, I never could.❤ So much love to ya, my fellow rocker friend! 🤗🤘
@@melissabattles3196 Wow. That’s so sad.
I’m glad you found therapy in the hard edged music too.
To quote Disturbed…. Sometimes darkness can show you the light.
Music helps with so much. Rock on!🤘
@tdsollog Yes, it certainly does! Thank you, and hope you're doing well, too! 🤘🙂
One time I went to a church yard sale and bought four crates of AD&D books and 80s metal vinyl. Must have been stashed away for a burning in the early 90's and eventually they chilled out and threw it in the sale pile
Also, Now Kiss
When I had an ectopic with tubal rupture for my 1st pregnancy, my doctor was yelling at me that I had to have had an abortion previously. She gave me a C-section sized scar across my abdomen, because she was sure she would find evidence. She didn't.
Disgusting
That's so fucked up. I hope you're able to det recompense
That "doctor" should've had her medical license revoked and you should've been financially compensated for what she did to you. Did you report her at all?
That is awful! She wouldn't have been in the right even if you had had an abortion! I'm so sorry she treated you like that
What??? This is awful
I was raised in the IBLP cult. I’m 24 and engaged and living in my own home now, but I still feel resentful for the childhood that I feel was stolen from me. Especially because since I’ve moved out, my parents have left IBLP, so I have to watch them raise my 6 younger siblings with all the freedom that I wish I had had.
I am so sorry that you are going through that.
Possibly try to think of it in a way of being thankful that another child doesn't have to be apart of that horrible cult. :))
@@leafeon-s4o I am thankful of that for sure, I love my siblings and I would never want them to go through any of that. And I’m glad my parents have changed, but it still hurts that I’ll never get my childhood back 😅
If I was in your position I'd probably resent the shit out of my parents. Probably for a really, really long time; even forever if I felt inclined. I would, however, keep a check on that so the resentment doesn't accidentally bleed over onto my siblings. The kids really have no choice but to follow their parents. I wish children weren't basically considered property in the US. It's kinda fucked when you step back and see how damaging that way of thinking is. It smothers their personality, opinions, and intelligence in my opinion.
@@leafeon-s4obeing thankful of that doesn't negate the validity of resentment, and if you think it does, I'm so sorry for you
Remember Bill Gothard was never married, never had kids either. So he doesn’t know anything about raising kids, or having a family and someone else to care about. He’s a horrible little man
I'm not surprised. The Quiverfull doctrine the IBLP pushes just doesn't work for the majority of poor/middle class families in the US, especially if they are surviving on a single income and/or the economy takes a downturn. It makes sense it was peddled by someone who had no experience trying to care for a wife and multiple little children, especially with little money. Very financially risky and just downright despicable behavior.
I don’t understand how no one questioned this.
I can’t believe people fell for this cult leader
That's a little sus. That's actually very sus. Was he hiding his own "deviant" sexuality from his cult? It's well trod ground that the people obsessed with crushing "deviance" wind up being "deviant" themselves. I'm speculating, I don't know the guy, but we've seen this enough before to make an educated guess.
He lost this position because 34 women, many underage, accused him for SH.
At first it was funny. Then it was sad. By the end I was angry.
Everyone in this cult needs to be put on a watchlist.
You think we have taken out the Taliban 🤔
Should read Mormon books their bad too..
Whoever wrote that last one and whoever pushes that crap should be [redacted]. They are not people, they are absolute monsters and any harm that comes against them is completely justified and moral.
They probably already are. We have the SPLC (Southern Poverty Law Center) and RWW (Right Wing Watch) chronicling their numerous misdeeds.
@harrisonashley1631So I take it you're including the children?
Part of why I really appreciate videos like this is because I was a Mormon convert, got suckered in around grade 9 when I was horribly depressed and lost. Videos like this are the ones that helped me to see that I'm not the problem, that this doctrine and rhetoric is the problem.
Good on you for breaking free! I hope you found faith in yourself, and whatever else that has been healthy for you if you wish.
@@flamebloom4659 thank you! I have been able to grow a lot since then, and am healing.
I can relate. As a former Mormon convert too, I joined when I was in one of most worst consistent set of depressive episodes.
@@insomniac_mind776 it's not coincidence. Unfortunately, and I'm sure you're aware, they prey upon vulnerable people using the mental gymnastics that you're somehow helping being them into something good even if it's by somewhat dishonest means
@@nyssalynn5216 Yep. I fell into that. All I wanted to was to not feel depressed and suicidal. I fell for every one of the elders' tactics to join their religion
1:01
You spent MONTHS? getting hold of all this shit? And reading over 4k pages of this bullshit? Huge, huge props to you. Thank you. I can't say thank you enough. I appreciate your hard work on this video. This is unreal. You're a champion Rachel ❤
As a teacher, I'll say that depriving children of (at the very least access to) educational knowledge is a form of neglect. Parents aren't teachers. And this material doesn't come CLOSE to substituting any kind of actual education.
Also I find it borderline dodgy to present kids with knowledge that isn't even relevant for them yet, ONLY by pre-emptively telling them it's evil. Especially when these topics concern sex, because it takes away any sense of autonomy over their own body, while installing shame and fear to keep them from asking questions or disobey people with bad intentions. It's dangerous, unchecked control, presented as protection and wholesome naivity. Makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, because children like these are set up to unwittingly mark themselves as easy targets for use and abuse.
Elisabeth this curriculum is terrible because of what it teaches but it is not the only thing IBLP uses. The wisdom booklets are an add on like many in the homeschool community use a morning basket today. The Duggars used a program now called Monarch and ACE, the Bates used Abeka and many I knew used Bob Jones curriculum for the "actual" education
@@mktay2067using Abeka just adds on to the lies. It is abuse to teach children lies that they will have to spend years deconstructing.
Abeka is faith based yes. It may be a good reminder that religion is a human right and protected in US. Teaching kids the family faith is common across the board in US. Muslim, Jewish, Buddhists and even atheists. They all teach their children based off belief. Much of which others will disagree on.
If you are talking about Abeka's science. Yes there is a difference in historical science teaching but I challenge you to go back a few years and see how historic science changes yearly in evolutionary thought. What has new info shown us about Neanderthals making past education of them a "lie". Or those dinosaurs.... Every couple years we learn a new aspect we didn't know before that alters what we "knew" about their lives. What about Charles Darwin himself. Much of his theory was proven wrong as new information came forward. The thing about historical science is we don't have all the info and make guesses. That is why it changes and updates/alters so often. Now observable science that is testable and repeatable. That is the only clear one with no chance of " lies" no matter your worldview ❤
@@mktay2067 The problem isn't what they teach. The problem is what they withhold: namely every bit of information (no matter how thoroughly empirically deduced, tested and peer reviewed) that doesn't fit the world view of their sect leader. That in itself is controlling and manipulative. These kids are set up to not stand a chance in the world outside their sect, because they aren't given the tools to understand it. They may have brilliant scientific minds or great problem solving potential, but they are deprived of the choice to develope those skills in order to contribute to making the world a better place. All they are taught is narrow mindedness and a fear/judgement based workdview. As an educator (and even as non-biblical-literalist christian who believes we have brains and rational thought for a reason), I have big problems with that.
Because of how our brains work, it is nearly impossible to make up for everything you didn't learn or wrongly learned as a child once you are an adult, as some connections in your brain just haven't been made during it's vital growing years. That is what makes this abusive in my eyes. They never get a real choice.
I was homeschooled and went to Bob Jones University for my freshman year as a "biblical counseling" major (they didn't have an actual psych department back in 2012, idk about now). I was straight up taught that there are only physical and spiritual problems, and that more severe symptoms of mental illness are either faking it for attention or a manifestation of guilt from sin. These people aren't just wrong, they actively seek to do harm to extremely vulnerable communities. Never trust a conservative's opinion about health, especially mental health. Thank you for using your platform to speak out against the horrors of conservative christianity.
Thank God that our church is very supportive of those of us being challenged by mental illness, Our pastor says that the Church has to stop stigmatizing mental illness
As a conservative Christian, true Christianity cares for people suffering from health issues, including mental health issues. Don’t let bad experiences with a few stop you from finding the true, real love of Christ!
@@jigglypuff_foryoutube1700 haha you’re literally in a cult
😭
Yes Pray the devil out of you. 😔
I grew up fundie, and I recently asked my mom why she didn't homeschool us. She said she didn't feel like she was qualified to do that and honestly, I appreciate her ability to make that judgement call. It really helped when I got out
i watched the documentary with my mom , and afterward she nearly cried and told me how close we got to falling into iblp circles . we didn’t dodge all of their teachings , but we did manage to avoid the worst of it
Thank you, Rachel, for being the decent, intelligent, strong and courageous educator and presenter that you are. Never be sorry for your very valid emotions and your bravery in sharing them. I have heard people wonder why others resent and oppose certain theist attitudes, I will, henceforth, refer them to this presentation.
Hi all, after many weeks of hard work which have resulted in me dreaming (nightmares?) about the Duggars most nights, far too many late nights, and at least 2 full days of tech issues while trying to export, I'm so excited to finally share this video with you all. I'm doing a massive almost 3 hour deep dive in the the IBLP's home-schooling curriculum and other "educational" materials.
The video was supposed to be premiering this evening but annoyingly, as soon as it's been uploaded it's been hit by copyright claims for the small snippets of content I used to exemplify a couple of my points and comment about. I have filed a dispute for these but I'm not sure how long it's going to take to hear back and, as much as I hate to say this, after the 100+ hours of work that have gone into this video, I really can't afford to release it without it being monetised so it's release might be pushed back a little. Sorry to potentially make you all wait a little longer and I really hope you can understand but thank you all so much for your patience (and everyone over on Discord who has been so wonderfully supportive!).
Fair use needs stronger protection on this platform.
make sure to take care of yourself! this is such a hard topic.
Yeah if the duggars appear in your dream it absolutely constitutes as a nightmare
We really appreciate all the hard work and time you pour into each one of your video essays Rachel 💕 I liked how you even put in the side tangent on how DNA works; glad I learned something useful amongst all their bs! Hope you’re doing better now.
The "bitter water" referred to here isn't only a metaphor for guilt. It is from Num. 5: 20-28 and is literally instructing priests how to perform abortions on potentially unfaithful women. Even if it is twisted in misogyny, it is the explicitly pro-abortion part of the bible!
Exactly. The idea was that if the woman was innocent, the bitter waters wouldn't hurt her or her unborn baby. Only a fetus fathered by a man who wasn't her husband would be aborted.
@@ladyv5655 same logic as things to check if the woman was a witch: weird pseudoscience to hurt women.
Wait, I don't understand. Is that the verse atheists keep bringing up when saying the Bible is pro-abortion? I've read this verse & deconstructed several times... and never noticed that. Ig I thought it was a mystical divination thing.
But that theory (if it's not a scholar-approved fact) still doesn't make sense: if the water was "bitter" bc it had chemicals fatal for a fetus, wouldn't its death rate be ≈100% (even in cases where the woman didn't cheat) and not something by chance used as a prediction? Why would this be a custom?
(Also I like how you acknowledge it's not even pro-choice bc you'd be essentially forcing the woman to have an abortion no matter what, putting the decision on the husband & priest, i.e. two men. Bc many people just say the Bible is pro-choice.)
A lot of people aren't aware the bible doesn't count us as people until we draw our first breath. That's when we have a "soul". They didn't see pregnancy as a person, even in Bible times. Before birth, you were property (and even after, but in a different way). Abortion was never a hot topic until modern times when it was weaponized by politics/ religion to control women, suspiciously after modern medicine gained traction. Earlier times it's all known women had abortions or used natural birth control methods, without much upset from society. So much so, plants went extinct. Weird how we have more people than ever, with modern medicines, but fundies push anti choice stuff so much more. It's a control thing. Have tons of christian soldiers for the ones in power. Hence why they don't complain much about IVF even though they toss out embryos like they are having a fire sale. Why do people think they aren't completely restricting abortion? Why 6 weeks vs none at all? Because it would eliminate IVF options and plenty of people use that these days. See, it's okay to dispose of "babies" if said babies are being sacrificed for maybe one pregnancy. The woman is fulfilling her role... They get angry when women don't accept pregnancy because that's their purpose and their punishment for existing. Control everything about pregnancy, control women, because pregnancy is a big fkn deal.
Fun Fact:
The Nahuatl word for "Bitter Water" is xocolatl. Which is the origin of the word chocolate.
So the bible suggests giving unfaithful women chocolate. 🤔
when rachel said ‘fibromyalgia’ i jumped a bit- never heard The Thing I Have get mentioned on such a huge platform, even if it was just an off-hand comment. thanks, rachel!
also, i was homeschooled for one year when i was a teenager, and i’d consider it the best year of my life. i got to spend more time with my family, with my pets, and with my friends. i got to figure out my interests and priorities and learn at my own pace (with separate tutors for each subject). i think the main difference between my experience with homeschooling and the one we see here is that
a) my mother is an educator, and i am extremely lucky to have an expert like that to support my progress as a parent;
b) i got pulled from school because of the intense bullying i was experiencing and the subsequent depression it caused;
c) i had separate tutors for every subject i took on that we’re experts in their fields instead of my mum or dad teaching me everything.
i’m very lucky for the experience i did have, and boy howdy do i wish it were universal for every homeschooler.
I felt this when Rachel brought up dermatillomania
I was also homeschooled as a kid, never went to public school, but it had absolutely nothing to do with religion (though my mum had a few flirtations with Judaism, Catholicism as she'd been raised and even Wicca IIRC) I definitely don't think it was the best thing not to have had any public school experience, and my folks were never against public schooling, but I consider myself very fortunate not to have been fed religious fundamentalist propaganda shit
Thanks for pointing out that homeschooling in and of itself isn't a bad thing...what makes it good/bad is how well the teaching part is handled, because just as there are homeschoolers like the Duggars, where it's clear that there are major gaps in their children's educations, there's also those that have been well educated and end up ahead of their public school peers (at least academically speaking), and with great success as a result of that education
From a science education PhD student: all of your concerns with structure of the content are spot-on, Rachel. It is outrageous that the IBLP curriculum doesn't have multiple stages as kids learn. Modern learning theories are built on the idea that we need to learn smaller, simpler pieces before we can tackle complex problems. An isolated lesson about the structure of the eye is nonsense and shows me they don't really want the kids to learn about the biology, only about Scripture. The eye is one of the most complex structures in the human body. If they actually cared about understanding, there would be previous lessons on basic anatomy, kinds of tissues, and cells, in addition to some physics lessons on light and optics. Copying down diagrams is *not* an effective way to reinforce that content. I'm only an hour through the video but this is already a very well-executed breakdown of IBLP.
I was JUST talking to my ophthalmologist about how amazing and complicated the human eye is! I have pigmentary glaucoma so I'm always in her office getting my eyes poked and prodded. One thing I remember saying was how amazing it is that the light is focused so precisely into such a little patch of cells, and that tiny patch is all that's needed for us to see our beautiful universe. If it's even slightly off the mark everything is either a blurry mess or you're completely blind. It's crazy how a little clump of cells mutated millions of years ago that detected light or its absence. From there all the different eyes evolved in all sorts of different animals. Our planet, and the life on it, never ceases to amaze me.
Tell me more! I'm very interested in learning about the human eye!
I think that this lack of structure/ages could relate to the viewpoint/treatment of children as mini-adults (and which could be influenced by Gothard’s thinking/ justification for his alleged abuse). It doesn’t make sense to have age appropriate educational content if you believe that children and adults are not that different and that children’s behavior is “manipulative” and not part of normal development. 🫠
I don’t think it’s covered in this video but I think there’s been discussion of this viewpoint in IBLP when it comes to their teachings on corporal punishment.
Thank you, Rachel, for reminding me of the time when my highschool science teacher told my class that cells can't mutate because they would then become cancer. Her also said women can't do science because of a lack of critical thinking skills, or something like that, so...yeah...
What year was that??
@@ivy7417 Early 2000s. Probably 2006
@@bdhesse that's genuinely insane. I graduated high school in 2020 and while I recall vaguely sexist remarks from junior high teachers in the early 2010s, I cannot IMAGINE a high school teacher saying that. I would have flipped.
Ironic, because he clearly couldn't do science himself due to his own lack of critical thinking skills.
@@ivy7417 Someone did complain. It wasn't me, since I was too depressed and just wanted to get out, but I remember him coming into the next class to rant about how women just need to accept that they aren't as good at science as men or some shit.
Understand the benefits of pain? As someone who suffers severe chronic migraines that painkillers have no effect on, BITE ME.
I have chronic leg pain that isn't helped by over-the-counter painkillers and I would also like to say the same thing
As a lifelong Christian, I can confidently say that this organization is a cult. They are gross, and they have added so much to their version of “Christianity”. I can see how what they taught filtered into mainstream Christian churches. I’ve seen that umbrella image used in a lot of churches from California to Idaho, and I’m sure across the country. It feels icky to know this is where it came from, even though I never really liked the messaging behind it anyways. It seems to me that a lot of this teaching influenced, and maybe still influences, modern purity culture. That would explain a lot of why the purity culture is so toxic. I had never heard of the IBLP until I watched this show, and it was incredibly shocking.
It's used in Catholic communion studies in Germany. I've seen it in my lessons before leaving the church.
I remember seeing that umbrella picture too! I am sickened. Those bible verses were taken way out of context. And the SA final page???? I am a conservative christian and there is no way I endorse that. I am glad I listened to this. It gave me a little better understanding of a situation my family has found themselves in involving another family that uses this curriculum.
The line about older kids looking after the younger ones (thus granting their parents more independence) made me laugh out loud. My mom can attest as to how well THAT worked out in practice, and she only had 2 of us! No amount of proper, "Christian" parenting can possibly prepare one for kids with too much time on their hands and no supervision... and access to combustible materials. That's all I'll say on the subject.
Just that line shows that they believe their children will never misbehave. They abuse their children to the point they know they will never misbehave. The duggars believe in blanket training which is terrible.
@chebikitty5566 what is blanket training?
Blanket training is when a parent will put an infant (starting as early as 6 months) on a blanket and try to “tempt” the baby off the blanket with a toy or other desirable object. If the infant crawls off the blanket towards the “temptation” the parent hits the baby. This is to make the infant scared to leave the blanket and thus easier to control. It’s horrific and any parent that does it shouldn’t be allowed to have custody of their children.
@@ThePunkHobbit That's awful 😟😟
@@ThePunkHobbitThat is insane, I'm surprised Ive never heard of it before. As a parent, I've always done the opposite and praised them for being able to reach the toy. Like I thought that was what you meant at first but that's just evil.
OMG, I remember admitting to a friend of mine who was into this how much money I make. I went on a holiday and she was so freaked out by my actually going on holiday without a man. Oh Lord, were they ever scandalized - first because I'm a single woman who should be married and have a pile of kids and second because my salary somehow made me evil. I was so annoyed.... Like.... Yeah... I worked HARD to make that salary.
I’ve got cerebral palsy and I can’t help but think how disgusting it would be to grow up disabled in this community.
I agree with you. I’m Autistic and I can’t even help but think how severely evil it would be to grow up Autistic/neurodivergent in the IBLP.
My nephew is autistic and his parents even though not in a cult, but are the product of a very toxic ideology in Russia. They do not accept him as he is, still trying to fix him.
My heart hurts so bad 😢😢😢
@@SmartStartTEFL My heart also hurts really bad for your autistic nephew. I do hope that there will be someone who can take him in and actually does accept him as he is as an autistic individual. ❤♾🌈 His parents' ableist ideologies are both unacceptable and unforgivable. 😢😞
I had/have a spinal leak since age 10 with seizures, swollen stomach, hunched neck, and lots more. I grew up in an extension of this cult.
One of the dads had a severe TBI and was visibly disabled several years after we knew their family. People included him in the fake niceness way.
Honestly, the girls were very catty and mean to me about my visible symptoms. But there wasn't really a eugenics angle honestly for the disabled.
One of the little girls there had some health issues as well and had to wear a special helmet. It wasn't a big deal. Everybody just rolled with it.
Keep in mind that this whole movement was founded upon the goal of increasing the number of white people. I've heard it justified in these groups that disabled white people have so much value in being white that the answer is to pray for a miracle to fix the health issue and usually to tokenize the disabled person.
I've found that a lot of Christian groups aren't concerned about visible disability because it adds to the visible charity street cred of them showing that they're caring for the sick.
IME you're more likely to be tokenized if it's visible and shamed for not taking charge of your health and conforming if it's not visible than to have some kind of extreme thing happen like being kept in the basement if you're visibly disabled.
If your health manages to improve as it did for one woman in the group who went on to have a gazillion children, then your disability is mentioned a lot as God working a miracle on you and you are blessed among women for fulfilling your duty of producing lots of white babies.
@@ericasrainbow71 not the IBLP but I grew up autistic in Mormonism, which has MANY similar teachings. it was absolute hell.
I am (vaguely) Eastern European. I know quite a few kids who moved to the UK recently, or even 10+ years ago and ALL of them were moved 1-2 years ahead at school after assessment because our school curriculum is just this intense. So for us the educational gap would be even more startling. These IBLP "educational" books are a joke. I cannot imagine anyone beyond the age of 11 studying this BS. Educational neglect is a form of abuse.
Yup! I grew up in the ex-Soviet block and our Maths curriculum is insane. My mom teaches secondary school Maths, and each teacher for ages 10-11 and beyond (5th grade and up) has to have a BA in the specific subject. I can only imagine her reaction at what passes for Maths education in the US in general, let alone this IBLP fertilizer.
“OnE BiOlOgIcAl mAn aNd oNe bIoLgIcAl wOmAn”
Sooooo two trans people, one afab and one amab, can get married? Sweet!
Yea that's what I've always been thinking about 😆
That, plus thoughts of "so if I marry a trans woman I'll be good?" It is a wonder that I didn't find out I was queer sooner!
Trans woman with parents that still call me their son here. Yeah they take better to when I bring a girl around than a guy. If it was a trans dude they'd never know cause I'm too cool to out my partner like that 😎
@@huntergoshorn8015 My ex-partner’s parents were like that. She’s a trans woman as well, and I’m trans masc. We used to joke about getting married would be straight in her parents eyes. I hope your situation improves
Marriage isn't exactly the last step here--they still expect you to be upholding all their other weird standards? So technically you could get married according to them, but then they wouldn't allow you to divorce, and you'd have to effectively detrans to manage their fertility requirements alone.
@@Nassifeh That’s um.. that’s the joke. That they wouldn’t tolerate a trans “straight” couple
Gotta admire the work put into this. I wouldn't be able to read a single text of theirs without my eyes rolling so far back they end up locked inward, staring at the black void surrounding what is left of my brain after that.
At the end of it now and I really enjoyed the part about genetics. It's so amazing what happens in our bodies and it's really sad that people refuse to learn this and instead brainwash their kids with abusive nonsense. That last part about the molested kid very much explains why they are pretty much fine with ignoring abuse and it's about as sickening as expected.
As the oldest child that went thru Parentification, I’m glad to have a word to describe why I don’t need kids. I already did it! Also if you were to do a whole video on it, I’d definitely watch 😊
I'm so confused about the homeschooling.i'm homeschooled in Europe and you have a yearly checkup with the centre of education.they check if you're studying and if it's on level if not you have to go back to school.otherwise it's literally illegal. Do they not have that in America because this wouldn't cut it at al .
Every state here has their own homeschool laws. Some states have a lot of government oversight and regulations, some states have none. I'm in Texas and homeschooling my kids. We don't report anything to anyone.
Yeah states are all different.
I'm in Ohio, and the amount of circles that have been busted for basically being cults is horrendous. One recently got blasted because it was basically a Nazi summer camp trying to indoctrinate little ones.
In my state (Virginia) it's more restrictive, you have to submit a plan and curricula for review to the local public school system, if approved you are allowed to continue and every year the kids have to take some sort of standardized test to ensure their on level, at least that's what my Mom had to do since she's starting homeschooling me this fall. However Education is mostly up for the states to decide, so some states have regulations others have basically none. The Federal Government can't actually really directly regulate Education, it can only give funding to states who institute whatever rules they want.
The IBLP and similar have an entire political lobbying/litigation organization (HSLDA) to make sure homeschooling is regulated as little as possible.
Homeschooled in the states. It depends on the state that you live in.The ones that I lived in during my school years (I was homeschooled my whole life, there are ups and downsides but thats another discussion) you HAD to either do a yearly test that was presented tot eh education board in your county or city, OR you could do a full on binder of the progress of student throughout that year. My mom juggled three kids so we did the yearly tests that were given to the education board.
The biology segment made me so nostalgic of when i first learned about theses topics in school! Biology is so fascinating and so complex, you explained it so well! I can't imagine having an education without studying how bodies function, it's so sad to see how such limited and restrictive information is being served up as "great" and "fulfilling" education by these fundie communities... Thank you for bringing awerness to this side of these communities, education is a fundamental right, it's sad to see it being messed with...
tldr; my school taught us how to GET pregnant, not stay not pregnant
i went to an all girls catholic high school and thankfully had pretty supportive parents so i would fight with religion teachers saying outrageous shit and get called into the office a few times a year. instead of sex ed we has a woman come in to teach “natural family planning” in which she VERY misleadingly said that just tracking your period is 97% effective, i was sitting there thinking no it fucking isn’t and i realized she meant effective to GET pregnant. wow! that surely won’t lead to teen pregnancy
NFP can be used to avoid pregnancy though. When instructed properly there's an understanding that there are different methods and several variables about your body to track to determine when to abstain to avoid conception. It does require some discipline and allowing a margin of error with more days of abstinence at times, but I do know many families who've successfully avoided pregnancy for years with NFP.
I will grant that Catholic schools tend to be abysmal at teaching anything regarding sex ed though. I attended Catholic school for 5th-12th grade and didn't hear anything said on the matter aside from the 2 hour talk where they just talked about periods and Theology of the Body.
It is that reliable HOWEVER only if you are consistent, good at tracking, etc. Same with the pull out method. Almost as good as birth control actually (90% if done correctly) .... BUT again, that's assuming you're with someone that's very very very good with timing. I wouldn't bet my life on it or skip other birth control if I didn't want to get pregnant, but it does work. I'm fertile myrtle yet I've never gotten pregnant when it wasn't known that would be the result. I know my ovulation like clockwork though. I'm never late. My husband is good at interruptus coitus.
@@shoopidly5249if you have an irregular period these natural methods are out on the spot.
My husband is from a catholic and IBLP family. Both groups are all about having a metric ton of kids.
He wanted as many kids as I could pop out. Well, by the time I got to my 5th kid, I told him that baby was going to kill me.
After having my last child, I died in my hospital room. Clearly they brought me back, but I knew my body was done.
My uterus had enough a while back and I had it removed. So much for filling my quiver. Lol
Also, my sister-in-law has 12 kids.
She had trouble just getting pregnant for the 12th one because she is in her 50s.
Did you want that many kids? I’m sorry that happened to you, it sounds terrifying and I’m glad you recovered!
@@sunnyandthechlo I love my kids.
I was never one for having a large family
(I am one of six in my own family) but I am actually glad my body refused having more.
I enjoy getting to know each child on a personal level, and there is no way someone can do that with a large number of children.
Five is what I can handle on a personal level. I am not a baby making machine. Lol
My sister-in-law has 12 kids...12....but she is a narcissist and never actually tries to get to know her children personally. She uses them to prop up her whole good Christian mom persona.
@@catwhisperer2358 …did you ever express directly to him that you didn’t want more..or did you go along to make him happy? I’m just confused I guess (absolutely no judgement to you) but I could personally not stay with a man who would try to impregnate me again after almost dying and expressing a real fear of subsequent pregnancies. That just doesn’t seem like something a loving and understanding husband would ever do. So I’m genuinely curious how and why you stayed
@@kritkratt6383 I am a product of an abusive childhood. I was trying to make him happy. Oh, I had my tubes tied after my last child was born. I was done.
I told him it he wanted more he would have to go find another woman.
@@catwhisperer2358 I’m glad you wanted them and are a good parent to them all!
I can not even imagine 12 kids…I’d have so many questions. How can they afford them all and how many kids to a room for instance but geez.
I was adjacent to you this cult with my cult. My family used a lot of similar teachings as this one and much of my curriculum specifically science curriculum was nearly exactly the same. It really frustrates me because I love science and I am not really able to go into this fields now because I didn't have that basic fact knowledge that everyone got in school. So we are slowly learning and teaching ourself now
26:18 I was directly involved with the Joshua generation though, so it's really weird to be so close to this and it's really validating to have a large platform acknowledge it as a cult
I’m so amazed by folks who come up in that restriction but their independent thinking still breaks through. Congrats for finding your path and going after it. You can do it.
My parents made the decision to homeschool me and my 4 siblings for religious reasons because they didn’t trust the public school system to teach us the values they deemed important. We went to our homeschooling group and would interact with other families. There was one family we knew on an acquaintance level whose dad and oldest son firmly believed that the Holocaust never happened. Big yikes there. My parents primarily used Michael and Debi Pearl’s resources (books, audiobooks, seminars) with us and spanking was the most biblical child discipline within our circle. My mom was all about healthy eating, home cooked meals and essential oils. The women within her friend circle were all about essential oils, home births, submitting to their husbands and homeschooling their children. There was so much purity culture going on within my friend circle: purity rings, purity talks, that sort of thing. Having a child outside of wedlock was deeply frowned down upon (two girls still did, though). I’ve have so many stories, y’all ❤ Fantastic video, Rachel.
“Spiritual vision” sounds like an ability for a video game. What level of christian do i have to be to unlock my spirit vision attack
The IBLP cult is FAKE Christianity! Only REAL Christians can "unlock their spiritual visions!"
I don’t think there’s a single other RUclipsr who I would ever sit down for a three-hour video for. 💜
Right? I always say, "Wow! Too long, Rachel." Then I watch the whole thing and sometimes watch them twice. 😅I learn so much!!
I’m a test tube baby and just hearing you read what these people think about fertility treatments enraged me. Just the thought of someone telling my mom, who went through all kinds of expensive and painful procedures to have a family, that what she did is an offense against God is revolting. She herself is religious and believes that God’s grace is what gave her my brother and me. I can only imagine heartbroken she would be if a religious leader told her that.
If only the Duggars would read this chapter from the Bible:
“Do not desire a multitude of useless children, nor rejoice in ungodly sons. If they multiply, do not rejoice in them, unless the fear of the Lord is in them. Do not trust in their survival, and do not rely on their multitude; for one is better than a thousand, and to die childless is better than to have ungodly children. For through one man of understanding a city will be filled with people, but through a tribe of lawless men it will be made desolate. Many such things my eye has seen, and my ear has heard things more striking than these.”
Wisdom of Sirach 16:1-5
Sadly these worthless IBLP don’t read the entire Bible.
They probably wouldn't read (much less accept) that quote because the Book of Sirach is not included in the versions of the Bible most fundamentalist denominations use. Many will not accept anything outside of those versions as biblical and may not even know about the existence of other books. I grew up Southern Baptist and never heard about the Book of Sirach, so I assume it was the same for the Duggars.
Also, the IBLP would do anything to keep its members from believing something like that because it would contradict the Quiverfull doctrine they push. The members might stop having so many children, meaning there will be less people indoctrinated by the IBLP that can be pushed into the American political system.
What type of Bible is that from? Is it in the Apocrypha?
@@spaghetto9836 it’s in most Christian bibles outside of Evangelical and non-Anglican protestant bibles. The Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans, Coptics and Church of the East all have this in their canon. The original Greek Septuagint that the Jews were using at the time of Christ, since Hebrew had fell out of use with the Aramaic speaking Jews in Israel and surround diaspora. Sirach was also originally in the King James Bible but in a separate area called Apocrypha and labeled as “useful for teaching but not arising to the degree of scripture. Which is why most Evangelicals removed it entirely.
The Septuagint is much older than the Masoretic manuscripts. Which is why the King James translators utilized it in addition to the Masoretic when translating.
@@SaintGeorge7the Wisdom of Sirach isn't in Catholic Bibles.
@@suzboneWisdom of Sirach, aka just "Sirach" is in Catholic Bibles, it's after the Wisdom of Solomon aka just "Wisdom"
"Abused children are more likely to have been wanted by their parents than children who are not abused"
The way my jaw DROPPED at these mental gymnastics
I haven’t gotten there in the vid but I’m fascinated by the psychological reasons. Like placing your happiness on this kid and therefore lashing out and being harmful to them when you aren’t satisfied, happy or fulfilled? So many rabbit holes to go down with a topic like that!
This needed to be said, Rachel. Thank you.
it’s always baffled me how these people can be so ‘the body is divine’ and we’re all made perfect in gods image or whatever, but then turn around and say ‘except for the tip of these boys penises, they have to go’ like what happened to being made perfect and not altering gods design??
I think in Judaism the foreskin thing is a blood covenant. It’s a visible mark of your relationship with god. So it’s not about correcting a mistake or a flaw, but a sacrifice of sorts. And I suspect also about making a physical difference between “us” and “them”. So that’s at least that logic. I don’t know much about these radical Christian groups or about their teachings around circumcision.
@@MissCaraMint Fun fact: circumcision among Christians was made popular by people like John Harvey Kellogg (yes, the cereal man) because they thought circumcision reduced the pleasure of masturbation.
@@Star-vf8vz Yeah but he also thought cornflakes would be good against masturbation for some reason. I don’t think he knew what he was doing.
@@MissCaraMint 100% agreed, I just find that bit of history relevant and hilarious.
@@Star-vf8vzthe cereal man was absolutely bonkers
The lack of education these kids get is terrifying (especially the thought of these kids growing up on this to then teach their own kids) For most of my schooling primary to high school I had very fragile health because of a very weakened immune system I normally missed around a full terms worth of school each year, especially after getting whooping cough when I should have been starting intermediate (Middle school) I was unable to attend any of that first term. I was lucky however that my parents worked very hard to make sure I had tutors for the subjects I was missing out on and even managed to find a 'hospital school' for children with health issues. I asked my Mum once why they hadn't just home-schooled me? She said that she didn't feel she would have been able to give what I needed as a teacher so she went and found as much outside help from people who were more qualified to help.
Also as someone with autism who tends to take a lot of things at face value/seriously I feel like if id had to deal with "School books" like these I probably would have spent most of my time either terrified or confused.
While there are many concerns and rightly so , the conversation about wisdom booklets and education is false at least in regards to the Duggars and many IBLP families. The families used it as an add in. Duggars used Monarch and ACE curriculum, Bates used Abeka and many I knew used Bob Jones.
@@mktay2067 While at least thats abit of a relief! Thanks for saying that.
It seriously must be even more terrifying being neurodivergent in this group because none of these people believe in any kind of what they’d consider “special treatment” and if you expressed that you’re having a hard time you’d probably be told to stop making excuses for yourself and just pray to god to heal you.
Truly sad and disturbing
@@boneperfectionIm very late but rhe person that answer to you is all over the video defending this people so 😅
Thank you for your in depth, researched, well articulated points. I'm so glad that not everyone is just "omg wow so bad time to insult this person" like if the person deserves it you will, but you also don't make that judgement lightly.
Idk I really appreciate your voice being put out there. It makes me feel heard, as weird as that is.
Totally fascinating and terribly sad how close but wrong they are in all those sections about chronic pain or illness. They blame it on guilt that proves that the individual is sinful and must have done something wrong, when yeah, chronic stress due to *imposed* shame and guilt, lack of boundaries, etc could totally contribute to a compromised immune system, chronic pain, or autoimmune disorers...
I homeschool my children and remember being encouraged to look onto this "curriculum" when my boys were young. I never looked deeply into it, because I didn't want to teach my children from a "faith-based" curriculum that would deny exposure of important facts and theories that would be excluded from a faith-based curriculum, but are otherwise common knowledge. This was nearly a decade ago that I made this choice and I am SO thankful I never threw money away on this garbage. I appreciate your in-depth review/critique of such a dangerous material that is far more pervasive than people realize (I live in a conservative part of Texas and there are A LOT of people who subscribe to a lot of the stuff that comes out of the IBLP, and people like the Duggars and the Pearls... I can't tell you how many mothers I know who subscribe to the Pearls' parenting philosophies and have essentially encouraged me to abuse my children because of their horrible book...)
I started reading blood meridian the other day, I don't know if it's gonna be as disturbing as this video, luckily both are looking to be amazing.
Also shout out to ex fundie diaries, who grew up in a Christian fundamentalist family and now makes great videos about what was living there and her traumas
Indeed! Ellie is an amazing person and has very clear perspective
Anything to do with Wendigoon?
Every time you reminded me that the Wisdom books are for children broke my heart further. The content is not suitable for anyone let alone a child, but the sexism and sexual assault sections were infuriating.
As someone who went through childhood SA and was raised almost all the way in this cult, thank you for talking about this and exposing them. People need to know how absolutely evil these teachings are. That kind of stuff doesn’t always heal right and I’ll probably always be a little messed up because of it. You put an astonishing amount of work into this research and video, and I have so much respect, admiration and gratitude for that. Thank you!
I appreciate this discussion a lot. I have quite a bit religious & purity culture trauma I’m working through and hearing others discuss these organizations and people that affected my young life really help me. 22:55
Also, I really like this background 💜
There’s just no way Michelle is able to have any deep connection with her children the same way most of us parents feel a deep connection to our children. They don’t see their children as living, breathing autonomous beings- the children are their property & slaves. 😭
That's because she has that connection with God and Jim Bob, she is not meant to have meaningful relationships with her kids, so she doesn't. Her sole purpose in life is to open her legs for her husband, so he is satisfied and bear children.
I was raised in the IBLP community and seeing these books in depth again takes me back. It’s enlightening to see an outside perspective on the whole thing in retrospect.
Thank you for this break down, excellent as always
Shiny Happy Indoctrination 🫠
@@theclumsyartistThank you! ❤
I finally saw a video of yours when it released. This was such a well-researched video, even if I’ll never stop begging the powers that be that you not give dissenting opinions a speech impediment. I’m not a hateful psychopath for having problems with articulation.
@@kathrynolsen1256Did you mean to respond to me? I don't do voices in my videos. 😅
Shiny Happy IBLP Cult
28:59 "Divorce today requires civil action, and Scripture clearly condemns going to law before unvelievers."
Wait, so they're saying that it's perfectly okay to be married "before unbelievers" (civil marriage) but it suddenly becomes un-biblical to go through the law when it comes to civil divorce?? The hypocrisy! They need to pick a side and stick to it.
My mom was a nurse: not a teacher. But she was able to figure out through research which ways her kids learned: what grade level they were in; multiple grade depending on subject and where to buy them. A parent will take the time to know their kid and what they need. That is homeschooling done correctly.
Wow that must have taken so much effort. I can’t imagine being a busy nurse and then having to come home and do this.
Teaching people that the only reason for surgery is cancer and that "exploratory surgery" is bad is honestly the weirdest thing in this. Like... exploratory surgery is used to _diagnose_ cancer so that you can then surgically remove it. I've read and heard a LOT of conservative Christian ideology growing up, none of this surprised me up until that, that one's just fucking weird.
Right? I thought Christians did away with 'care not cure' centuries ago.
can't believe Rachel just tricked me into learning biology
This will be a weird take. I'm agnostic, living in Europe. I've been always weirded out by all the history of the Catholic church. Years before I was talking with a devoted catholic about the need for the Pope, theology and catholic ceremonies. He argued that all of that is needed, because without it anyone could interpretate the Bible in any weird and toxic way. The more I hear about fundamental christians in the US, the more I agree with him. Of course the Church has done some evil, and of course I don't agree with a lot of their teachings, but it still seems to be more safe for people with a religious need.
I'm pretty sure America was founded on religious outcasts that wanted to practice their way.
Figured it was the reason they have so many different denominations or sects which all are kinda similar but not.
Or we could just remove religion and teach people ethics that actually benefit them
@@Dobbyisfreelmao you would need to universal consensus on what those ethics should be and no one will agree on that, same way no one can agree on how to worship the same god, kinda silly in my opinion.
@@TS-oz3ec I didn't say teach people to think the same way. It's supposed to make people think for themselves and understand the consequences of their actions, open up intellectual conversation about human nature. Instead of looking to ancient outdated texts that lead them down a path of bigotry and fanaticism at worst, simple minded ignorance at best. If someone wants to practice their religion, cool. I still think we'd gain more from replacing it with ethics. There are a lot of useful skills future generations could develop, if people stopped threatening them with eternal damnation if they don't do what the religious doctrines say - that they get indoctrinated with at a young age and don't even understand by the way - and do their best to please some invisible deity
I was an ex-catholic before I became ex-christian altogether. There's a flip side with progressive Christianity. I'm gonna disagree with your friend there, especially since a fair amount of catholics, but obviously not all or most, have fundamentalist thoughts & opinions.
Imagine… probably happened already: a mum dies during childbirth and leaves her 12 children and newborn to father and the eldest. My personal nightmare :(
It was really interesting to hear your brief aside about the differing levels of teaching for American kids vs those in the UK. Even here, it's hard to have a "standard" or average because different states can have different standards, and having a school in a wealthier area makes an astonishing difference as to what is taught. My husband and I both went to public high schools within 20 miles of each other and our experiences were vastly different. I was also a kid who had always taken honors level classes since elementary school, so I had even more of an advantage in that regard. There were extreme differences in our assignments and expectations for school. I would be interested to see what's "average" for a student at different grade levels in the UK.
Although the quality of education definitely depends on what school you go to in the UK, I do think it's a good thing that there are only a handful of exam boards for the entire country that offer similar syllabuses. It levels the playing field for what students have the opportunity to learn.
Also, if you're curious as to what UK students are studying, there's a TON of study resources for GCSEs (16) and A Levels (18) on RUclips.
that octopus plushie in the background is doing a fine job of softening some of the horror. godspeed, little dude.
Thank you for making such an informative video and actually going into this stuff that is contained in the books. I haven’t really seen anything covering that and while I realize it was probably frustrating I am grateful for you to take the time to do that and now I never have to even consider looking at it myself. 😅
As someone who just had a miscarriage, blaming it on yourself is an awful way to think. There are also so many different kinds of miscarriages, and most of the ones in the first trimester that happen weren't viable in the first place.
Mildly related, it's terrifying that the medication I needed to make sure I could try again as soon as possible without risking infection and other issues would be made illegal in some southern states because it's also used for abortion.
this content would be hilarious if it was a parody; weird if just odd things from the past ; but with all the lives affected, and still being in use today they are merely horrific
Not a parody. Just some evil crap from a demented mind of Bill Gothard.
My parents have 7 biological children, talking with my mother recently, they truly did not understand how birth control worked. I think that the improvements in sex education has really made a difference. And as always if you have the parts to get pregnant and your partner does too, you could get pregnant. Always use an additional method of bc, usually add a condom.
My mom thought that it caused abortion. Even when I explained it to her 30 years later she still kinda think that. She supports the right to choose though, so she’s just a little confused.
And even if you don't both have parts that can result in conception, its important to use a condom still!! STIs can be very serious!!
I’d love to see a video on parentification. Sorry if I spelled it wrong. I’m 11 and 13 years older than my siblings. Most of my family has said my parents had me doing way too much for the kids. I remember I’d make plans with friends and my mom would say she needed me to watch the kids instead. It happened all the time. I never really got to enjoy my teenage years…
I needed that Kyra-cleanse a little more than halfway through, she is so precious 😭🫶 Such a snorty lil baby. Amazing video as always, Rachel!! Love when you get the chance to do longer videos, I’m so happy all of the monetization got sorted out.
The difference in our education systems is that the US is wildly inconsistent. Because I was so shocked at how easy my classes were when I studied abroad in Italy (not STEM I feel like STEM was pretty consistent from what I saw from those student’s classes), and my sister had a similar experience when she studied abroad in Scotland. But in the US it’s the highest of highs and the lowest lows in terms of quality and not much in between. It’s all just a lottery of where you are born and to who. Would be so much better if everyone just got a good education.
Just finished watching. Thank you for your hard work. This was a great video
Thank you!!
17:30 I am an English teacher in a public high school in New York City with 23 years of experience. I was also reading and writing at age 3 independently before starting school and in advanced classes throughout my education, so I, like you, struggle with making sense of what kids learn in what grades. If it helps, I went to public school in NYC from 1982-1995 and things were WAY more advanced than what today’s curriculums look like! The stuff I am told to assign to kids in year 11 is akin to what I was asked to complete in grade 3. Nevertheless, OMG Rachel, I have been waiting for this video since I saw it coming up on my app and I am SO happy you’re covering this!!!!!😊🎉
Off topic but I love your background and the purple octopus 🐙💜
I can't handle watching this or I'll have a very bad PTSD week, but I was in the ATI and IBLP. Whats known by the public isnt nearly all there is to know because shame and trauma keeps victims quiet. We were essentially trained to have visceral negative responses to even thinking about getting help. Learned helplessness and pavlovian response combined if you will. The amount of sexual abuse and physical violence is insane. EVERY home had at least physical abuse, many sexual as well. The physical abuse was quite lierslly a requirement. It was one of the handbooks. I wish i had it for evidence, but years after my mom said she was out for good i found the handbooks in a box "just in case" and set them all on fire.
i was homeschooled and in IBLP from 3rd to 6th grade. i cant watch this documentary, but im going to try to watch this video because i like your content rachel. im in a support group for survivors where this video was shared a while back but i wasnt ready. thank you for posting this
Please don’t force yourself into anything you’re not ready for, take your time and listen to your body and your needs :) I’m so happy you have your support group now, I really hope you’re doing ok! ❤️
@@RachelOates thank you
Months? How about Years?!!! Especially the work you have given to the fundamentalist world. The Pearls themselves were very big in the IBLP scene, let alone all of the other books that you have gone over. More power to you for doing something that many people simply don't have the skills to do.
The ending section in particular... wow. I couldn't imagine writing such things about victims. This is such a heavy video, and it's so, so helpful to see this analysis. My family wasn't quite this bad, but I feel like I've been on the edge of this sort of content most of my life, and trying to find a way out is tough. I really appreciate the time you've put into this. It means a lot.
The RUclips algorithm has recently introduced me to you -> Reads with Rachel -> Fundie Fridays, so at this point I guess I should actually take the time to watch this dang documentary before I consume several more hours covering them here. Makes sense given that it just came out but I really did not expect to learn so much about these people I haven’t thought about in years this week!
Homeschooling is so controversial. I want to homeschool my son because the more so read about elementary school and the way reading is taught I do not want him there. Plus the mass violence threat. But I know people will judge him, even if we use coops and socialize. People like this give homeschool a bad name.
Let me say this, as someone who is autistic and went through public school up to nearly the end of 10th grade:
If your son is autistic, DO IT.
If your son is neurodivergent/mentally disabled in any way, DO IT.
I can't speak for everyone, and regular school may be an okay option for your son. But in my and many other's experiences, homeschool (if done correctly) can be a literal and figurative lifesaver.
I'm not going to assume anything about you based on your decision, but I can say that being homeschooled is the best thing that has ever happened to me.
After covid, there seems to be more options for virtual school. Might be a good way to learn without most of the issues of public schools
i genuinely got depressed when she said “is employee insurance still a thing?” oh how i wished i lived in a country where employee insurance is a foreign concept 💀
I was in Catholic high school. We were also told that a children who survived an abortion were killed. we also watched an interview of a woman who was aborted and lived. She has some severe disabilities.
It sounds more like you were in a FAKE Catholic Cult High School! REAL Catholics don't believe in abortion, and they're told they're "Going to Hell," just because they made a mistake! That woman you watched in that interview is BOTH physically and emotionally scarred for life!
The schooling one is interesting. My niece went to school in Germany for 3 years, got back to the US as an 8th grader and they told her she has the knowledge of an 11th grader.
Where at in the US? Each state is like its own country.
@@bootsandcats1501 Texas... which doesn't say a lot since it's ranked like 40th in the school system compared to other states
29:38 "...as for you machine, you have taken everything from me and all that remains is PERFECT HATRED"
-Archangel Gabriel from Ultrakill
Here to re-watch this video, this is such a well-written and reseached video, I commend you so much, Rachel!
If the adults stop learning when they are ten why would the education system they created be aimed at anyone over ten?
This stuff is crazy. I would love a video on the parentification of children. I think it isn't talked about enough and should be discussed more. I've seen people say how being "mentally/emotionally older" at a young age is admirable but it really isn't. This is a child who should be allowed to enjoy the simple pleasures of childhood, not be forced into adulthood so soon in life.
Yeah,yeah,I’m sure my body trying to kill me during my periods is all due to my perfectionism.
I'm a perfectionist myself, but people are more important than achievements! The IBLP cult expects people to behave like "perfect robots" instead of normal human beings!
Rachel, I would be very interested in your review of Jill Duggar's most recent book. I found it to be a fascinating reflection of someone who escaped the cult of IBLP (her words), and the toxicity of reality TV and child exploitation whilst also still loving her family and reflecting on how she balances those conflicting feelings and experiences.
The very last segment is hands down the most horrific thing I've heard in recent memory. Victim blaming a FOUR YEAR OLD is a new low. I can't believe these people think like this and somehow convince others to think like this as well
The SA sections towards the end 100% read like the sort of things religious abusers would tell themselves to justify what they did. Genuinely terrifying.
In the US, education is determined by each state's government and so it can be extremely diverse. For example, the kind of education one would get in Massachusetts or New York would much better prepare students for a post-secondary education compared to one in Louisiana or Georgia. Even within states, one's ZIP (Postal) Code can drastically affect the funding a school has where those with wealthier households will have much greater access to resources compared to poorer ones.
Yes, because public schools are generally funded off property taxes, poorer areas will almost always end up with worse schools than wealthier areas even before you get into other reasons why that would be the case. My experience with public education [good] was wildly different from my husband's [bad] due to both wealth disparities in our hometowns combined with different state education standards.
If you ever heard about the A.C.E program, it's a biblical homeschooling curriculum that is super regressed, like it teaches segregation, rewrites history to better suit their agenda and over all pretty similar to this one.
It sounds more like a cult, just like Bill Gothard's IBLP cult! ALL cults rewrite the Bible to better suit their own agendas as well!
Really looking forward to your take on this!
2:22 talking about venereal disease not being effectively treated by antibiotics anymore - it's almost as if the bacteria mutated over time to become resistant to this medication... maybe even... evolved?
I was raised with these books and isolated from “the sinful world” in my home”schooling”. I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your spreading awareness and methodical approach to breaking apart the “workbooks” for the indoctrination that they truly are. Thank you, this video must’ve taken a lot of time and they are such a headache to read 😂
Interestingly i first heard probably from the REM song, shiny happy people
That song has been stuck in my head the entire time I've been making this!
Wow Rachel bless you for subjecting yourself to those wisdom booklets. Much respect. I thought about looking up a few to skim, but idk if I have the dedication you do. Power to you, this is so impressive!
Great video, fully agree with all of Rachel’s concerns about the learning materials
If anyone is interested, the channel/podcast cults to consciousness has done very good interviews with survivors of IBLP and other cults
I wasn’t homeschooled through ATI, but I know way more than I’d like to about Christian fundamentalism and the Christian homeschooling movement in the U.S., and this is the first IBLP-related video I’ve audience from someone who wasn’t at least IBLP-adjacent that didn’t have me muttering corrections at the screen throughout. This is really good work! I’d love to see your take on other popular fundie curriculums, such as Abeka, A.C.E., and BJU Press!
Love the background btw