Excellent info! My experience (But over 10 years ago) was $50 to $100 unsigned band in NYC and $250 to $500 with cover/ wedding band, but very sporadic. So, in order to survive I became a sound engineer, first as a club sound mixer (steady $150/ night) and then started doing TV/ Films and the pay went way up to $250 to $1000 a day and pretty steady and easier on my ears.
As a working high end freelancer musician from the 70’s through the early 2000’s, this is great, solid and accurate information from a professional that is doing it. I worked with many many acts like tony Bennett, Ella, mel torme, temps, theatre, you name it. My three kids are all professional musicians in Miami, nyc and chicago. All play with big names in the commercial and jazz fields. This is totally accurate and just really good information to know for young musicians entering the business. Thank you!
EXCELLENT!!!! As a drummer at 52 years old playing for 40, this video has Enhanced my knowledge. I played drums for a Major Ministry almost 2 years that paid for airfare, food, hotel accommodations, and they supplied the drum equipment. When I say they paid bountifully where I didn’t ask how much I was being paid because I love playing drums, They Exceeded And Beyond where I didn’t think I was worthy of it. Again, Vital Information!!!!!
Mr Dyke I have been searching on the Internet for years for information on the pay for gigs and now you come out with a video that is needed. Thank you very much
Before I accept a gig, I asked the same 3 questions you stated. I call them the 3 categories based upon for accepting/declining gigs. Number one is the Business. Is the gig pay market value par, below par, above par? Second is the Musical Integrity. This is usually contingent upon the caliber of musicians playing on the gig. I have a personal rule that I must play with players who are at least on my level or better. Even if the music material for the gig isn't the greatest, if the players are outstanding professionals, the musicality and performance will usually be good regardless of the material/genre. The third category is the Fun Factor. That's similar to whether the gig is a good hang. The fun factor is highly influenced by the musical integrity of the situation, which depends upon your musical colleagues. The nature and extraneous circumstances of the gig may make the gig a fun or not so fun experience. If one of the categories is low, then the other two categories need to be above par. If two of the categories are low, then the third one needs to very high. When all three are low and below standards, the gig is untenable, which I firmly but politely decline. I had a gig where the pay was above par, the musicians were outstanding, which made the Musical Integrity high, but the Fun Factor was quite low. The load-in/out and travel to the gig was so labor intensive and kinda f'd up, that it really made the gig suffer in the enjoyment of it. I knew the circumstances coming and chose to do it because the pay was good and the players were great, which made up for the shitty fun factor. I declined a couple gigs recently because the pay was under par, the musical integrity was questionable, and the fun factor would be very low. The pay was low because the leader asking me to do the gig wanted me to have an unpaid rehearsal in addition to the gig, the leader struck me as not very good and the players he mentioned I knew were mediocre, and the gig was about 5 hours one way and 5 hours back. Low pay, mediocre musicianship, and not fun whatsoever long distance travel made this an easy decline. Sometimes, I've done gigs when all 3 categories are low. The reason: the shitty money. All pro musicians I believe have done this to an extent in their careers usually because we didn't know any better. Also just trying to scrape a living together as a working musician, and needing to pay the bills anyway you can. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. Being a professional working musician is hard like any creative occupation. But, over time I've developed those 3 categories to really filter out what's worth it to my time and my own integrity. When called upon as a sideman musician, accepting or declining a gig is the most basic prerogative one has. If you decide to accept a gig then you must fulfill the work with the utmost professionalism and musicality no matter what. Going through a process of asking those three questions in the video, and my own three categories, empowers the musician to know exactly what they are about in relation to the work being offered to them. Therefore, this allows one to make gig choices with certainty and clarity.
I am new to MA. I met a lady at a Guitar Center, where she was taking drum lessons, and ended up giving her additional lessons. She also pays for sessions at a School of Rock. The drum "instructor" does not actually teach the drummers how to play. When the 3 students ask questions about their assigned songs, he tells them to "just feel it", so she turned to me for guidance. I would write out the music for her (he never provides sheet music for them) and help her to learn the song. Because of her level, I would have to simplify more complicated beats to their basics. The music selection is 98% rock music from the 50's - 70's and 98% of That is Not what was popular at the time! Great for a beginning drummer, but extremely boring to me. Anyway, she eventually got a group of fellow students together to "jam" out on Friday nights. None of them know any songs outside of what they've learned at the School of Rock, so it was just an extra practice. She invited me and another drummer to join. 3 drummers. That's cool, but I don't like most of the music that they play. So, they used my drum set. I didn't mind. I gave advice where I could. One Friday, when all 3 drummers, a bass player and a vocalist showed up, a friend of hers also heard them. They rehearsed their newer songs by playing along with the music. The friend invited us to play at her son's 18th birthday party. They accepted. Someone brought up the fact that we would have to learn all new songs because 18 year olds probably won't like the music they play. She literally said, "we'll play three songs that he likes". We are talking about hours of playing, with an hour off because one of the instructors from School of Rock would do a solo set. Someone suggested a song that "was popular 50 years ago." I said to count me out. When she asked why, I told her that the music selection is too slow for a party. Like, Hotel California is one of their most "upbeat" tempos! I suggested that they could learn today's pop music easy because most of it is less musically complicated than the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, The Eagles, etc. I suggested getting 10 songs from the Billboards Top 40 from the 60's to now. She flat out said no! She basically said that I was a musical snob and that I should be grateful for ANY chance to play. She even implied that I don't know how to take advantage of a situation. I tried to explain to her about musical integrity, that I can not sit for hours and play music that I don't enjoy. She's been playing the drums for a year. I've been playing for 52. I told her that it's a hobby to her, but music is life to me. I asked if we were getting paid for it. Nope, "it's just a band rehearsal at a kid's birthday party", her exact words. I took my drums and left. Musical Integrity. "To thine own self be true... "
@@SOLDOZER 1: No one is “begging” for anything. 2: $10 an hour is an insult, unless you’re a teen band, or just plain “suck”. 3: If you have to “beg” for a gig, or you have to “beg” to be paid, you don’t deserve either.
@@derrickburwell7777 I was a touring musician for 18 years. I know what it pays. It dont pay for piss and you dont have any room to be picky. There's 30,000 musicians willing to take the gig without being picky.
@@SOLDOZER You live your life and I’ll live mine. I don’t seek, nor do I need, your approval. Your experiences are yours, so walk Your walk. My shoes are filled with My feet. Also, No One joins a band to play music that they Don’t Enjoy. If that’s what you did, that’s You. 🤷🏽
Wow, Travis, you really got it on point. I‘m not just marvelling at your truthfulness, but also at your skills of delivering such a topic with ease. Keep on rockin man! 💪😎🎸
@@TimeGallondepends if ur getting streams and album purchases on multiple platforms…granted thats if the record industry doesnt already have u by the nuts
@@TimeGallon can confirm his numbers are right. As solo artist the low end starting out numbers are the same. As things goes up, the front person of the act can take more but has a LOT more work. Booking calls and emails for details, taxes, paperwork, stage plots, corresponding with catering, events staff, lights and sound etc….it’s a lot. So then they either need another cut made for management or take more on themselves and pay accordingly. One huge asset a touring musician can bring, especially at the lower or middle end, is to take care of these things. Have a sound system, know how some of this front of house back of house stuff works, help the artists you like and pass block some of this stuff for them, be organized, go above and beyond, be helpful. I took a side job as a stage hand during college and can’t tell you how much I learned about the whole operation and how much it has helped me contribute value to artists I’m working with
The last tour I did was in 1992. I got paid $75 per show, plus daily travel, food and lodging provided by the tour. So we didn’t starve on the road, at least, but it wasn’t real money heavy.
Interesting breakdown of yes or no. I was taught a different set of qualifications. 1, money, 2, career connections, 3 hang/enjoyment. Your message to folks hiring is solid. All in all, this was a well explained, well thought out video. Nice one!
I think this info applies to Nashville but definitely not west coast bands. We have always been paid weekly, without regard to how many shows that week. Could be one, could be six. Pro- rated daily off of the weekly rate. No such thing as a 'travel day'. We get paid from the minute you walk out the door to go to the airport until you get back through that door. Much simpler and fairer. Cheers!
This is very helpful. I have an 80's coverband and have been paying 60 dollars per rehearsal plus food, and shows 200 dollars for a 2 set 2 hour show plus dinner. I was worried I wasn't in the range. When we do a corporate gig I can pay 500. I have heard so many different things, this helped me make sure I am respecting my team.
@@boethius1812 hes the person paying the hired musicians and booking the gigs so he’d pay you $200 to play bass for an 80s night and maybe he’s the drummer or singer
Right on point. These are realistic. Many other “pay scales could be discussed in future vids. Music directors, Low, med. high level radio commercial producers, show gigs. Helpful info. Thanks.
In my experience for just bar gigs that are 2.5-4hours and selling a few different outfits. Acoustic duos 300-750 Full band 800-1500 Private event 1.5k-3k Wedding 2-6k Per musician Pre covid avg 150-250 Post covid avg 200-300 Imo as a full timer, musicians got a much bigger raise than most ppl. If u play like 2-4 times a week, it's pretty livable. Playing church helps a ton. But if i gig 3 times thats about 600 plus tips.
One band I was in (rock/blues/country) was kind of the house band at a bar. They paid us in drinks, until they figured out it would be cheaper to pay us 500 a night ... heh heh. I never looked at music as a way to make money, and your amounts look about right. The one thing that surprised me in one band was playing wedding gigs, and also fancy hotels. They paid 1000 to 2000 a show or weekend, and my wallet filled up pretty fast. I could even make a house payment with that money. But, yeah, I never looked at music as a way to make money. Your advice was spot on. Sometimes the 250 dollar gig at the pizza joint with some other really good musicians is worth it to make great music.
In Australia a basic musician playing day an acoustic set at a pub gets between $300-1000 a night… depending on size of the gig…. Average would be $5-600…..
I've had the privilege of playing around the world with musicians in all types of genres like pop, reggae, and funk, and I can say that you're spot on when it comes to the average pay.
Great topic. Good things to know. Great vid! I own my own business but I play at church most Sundays, played the local scene but never went on the road. And even in my later age I am getting calls still to play guitar as a hired gun. I never considered a scale for the work. It’s always been a passion to play and it becoming a job I always felt would take the fun away. But still your info is very valuable. I just subscribed
Back in the 70s and eighties,i played all over northern California in a country rockband. I'm talking about honky tonks, biker bars hippie clubs you name it. I played a pedal steel or a telecaster 'or both. I made $75 or a $100 each night Depending and those were dollars that were worth more than those today. Usually beer was free and there was plenty of weed in the parking lot. Life was good indneed and I won't mention the benefits.
I spoke with a guy who worked with Cher's band leader. He was paid $5000 a week during the runs in Las Vegas. Some band touring musicians also get royalties from songwriting or percentages of ticket sales. However the rule for many musicians is poor wages. I even know some signed artists with record deals who don't have high album sales. Some of them even had to open their homes as bed and breakfasts to make ends meet.
So are we talking per person , say in a group? Is it 100$ per person? Groups might range in size, from 2-5 or even more. Also a local gig is usually 3.5-4 hrs. If we make 300$ - 400$ thats average
My father was an orchestra leader and a Local 802 member. Back when he was playing club dates 1940-1984 everyone received union scale. He had a contract that he had to keep in his jacket in case a union rep showed up… very different times now. Great information though..thank you.
Yeah and if you’re doing union broadway shows you get health benefits and pension payments which really comes in handy later in life. I did decades of union shows and concerts and love my pension!
$100-$130 is still a bit low for low-level gigs. I’m from NYC so it might be a bit different, but most small artists and also bars are willing to dish out at least $150-$200 or even upwards of $300. Also, it would be worth it to note that if you’re ever in a situation where the person booking you is asking to bring your own sound, they should be able to provide at least $100 on top of what you are already getting paid. Great video, Travis! Lots of good things to reference, thanks for shedding some light on this 🙌
Thank you so much! This is the first time I've heard about the different levels of pay. I'm playing casuals for the same rate of pay that I got years ago. You've gotta love it!!!
REMEMBER also normally you are paid as a 1099 which means you provide ALL medical insurance and pay your taxes plus a self employment tax that is in addition to FICA and SICA tax. When you deduct all this it is a big chunk.
Awesome video. Very informative. You cover alot, but did not touch on recording sessions. Would love you to do a video that covers rates for recording sessions.
Man - I love you! Your are honest and this is rare in this business. A lot of musicians earn "so much" and others are begging because they earn so "little". The business offer all chances, risks and circumstances. Are there coming people, because you are playing? Is the Bar making more money, because you are playing? No, and no? So you are a handcraft-musician - ok thats the low end. Can you play, sing, dance/perform and the people are paying a high entrance to see your show? Thats the high end. How low, can the low end be? $ 0,- and waiting for tips. How high can the high-end can be? As musician in a band/orchestra I think you told it right $ 1.000,- . But as front-men/women , as "star" it can go up without limit. Look to Vegas. Or to the birthday party last week in Saudiarabia, where Celine Dion was singing. No limits - be good, get better, entertain the people and dont be shy to want money.
GREAT INFO T.. I just left an artist that I've played with for almost 15 years because he turned out to be a BIGGER A-hole than I was warned about when I first started playing for him. ... AND he was taking credit for creativity that didn't come from him, especially when it came to me. So at my last gig with him, I told him that from then on it was cost HIM $200 cash upon my arrival at the venue before I would unpack and plug up an extention chord... let alone plug in my axe... I feel so much freedom now🔥🔥🔥
Wow , as someone that has a nice 9-5. In information technology and was hoping to take Sunday only and turn it into more after the kids fly the coop , that is a shock to my system , as the does not include health Insurance or retirement 😢 Guess I will keep my Sunday worship gig and start working on my Cisco ccie wireless certification Thanks again for all the insight from the music business
Not really. Most people have to be content if this first thing you mentioned is tolerable. And most people don't go to work for the "hang"! They go to grind out a living.
@@devilsoffspring5519 Oh I dunno, getting paid OK to do a job you like or at least tolerate and work with people you like sounds like a pretty good way to live.
@@adam872 I guess, but it's asking a hell of a lot for people who have to work for a living which is most of them. Most people have to be content with getting paid whatever it pays and not having to flog themselves just for getting fired.
Adding in a fourth consideration: Is there a “political component” to taking a particular gig? In other words, will I meet new people that could garner leverage for future gigs and/or a better situation down the road.
@@kenster3554 That's a good point but it isn't political because it still revolves around your own talent and it's merits, not using physical violence to destroy other people's talents so so you can stay on top by pushing other people down if they happen to be better at it than you. Politics revolves around physical violence and/or other methods of getting power over people. It is NOT appropriate for the world of music, which is about creating/relating and bringing happiness into the world and NOT about destroying other people's pursuit of happiness in order to achieve tyrannical power.
Great vid and fairly accurate. For financial reasons, I never had the courage to be a full time musician because I've played mostly in church. If I were to try to make a stable living in the music industry I would go more towards production/sound engineering or being a studio session musician. Musician pay can be so inconsistent and can take a long time to to establish yourself to command a liveable wage in my opinion.
Pretty accurate video I have a label/bus gig and I’m sitting at $550 per show. My previous label/bus gig was for a fairly big artist and it only paid $325 per show plus per diem and travel days.
Very helpful info thank you for the insight I run and manage my own coverband and this gave me great info maybe next make a video about playing for private events or Corp gig or City Events 😎. Sending love from Los Angeles CA
In film ove heard it as the 3R rule. I'm a local 600 AC and steadicam operator, and what I 've heard is: R1 Rate. R2 Reel. R3 Relationship. 2 of them will do as well. This seems to cross all platforms so I second that as a truth in most creative industries! Great wrap out btw!
Thanks for sharing! This is why I had to flip from music to working in the film and television industry. Even the Production Assistants who carry sandbags, make copies and run errands (very important tasks) make $250+ a day and they're the lowest paid person on a set, including a basic set not just big features and commercials. Camera pointers $350-$450, Camera Operators $650-$1000, Cinematographers $1500-$3500, Gaffers $750, Audio recordists $850-$1200, Hair & Makeup $650-$850. Plus people who provide specialized gear with their jobs charge rental fees. Those are all 10 hour days. 1/2 pay for travel, plus meals and lodging. I'm not saying it's all that amazing or better but it's a similar creative process that many people will work for free just to get a foot in the door.
My brother has played drums for several well known national acts. His gig pay, expense per diam and travel worked out to be about $20k for a 43 gig tour over about 10 weeks including rehearsal time. He filled in for another really well known bands drummer for 3 shows over 5 days and was paid $5k plus his trans and hotel. This was on almost no notice however. This first show was only his 4th or 5th time through the 60-70 min set list.
Great information, great content. Anytime someone provides quality work, I’m puzzled why no one’s comments are acknowledged . It’s off putting, just my opinion.
Nashville starting rates are better than most other spots. Some nights my bandmates and I make less than $50 a player. Often, those of us on the local scene here in San Francisco lose money to pay our musicians at least $50 a player. The rest of your tiers, though, are 100% accurate.
Thanks for the video! Professional touring guitarist here. It is WILD how many musicians are willing to play for insultingly low rates, and consequently WILD how many artists think it is appropriate for their musicians to be underpaid. It’s 2024. It costs $7 to get a cup of coffee. Let’s all start saying no to $150 gigs, please. We are all worth way more than that.
right ! at 310 mark he states there is no set in stone rate.... JOIN THE UNION and there is ! Back in the day (late 1980s for me) especially in the East Coast area & in LA you HAD to be in Union or you did not get on the Stage.
It's not what you think you're worth, it's what the market will bear. Most musicians, no matter how good, don't make much money. It's simply not a money-making business for most of them.
I dunno if I would call commenting on a RUclips video “making a stand” by any stretch of the imagination, but regardless - Alex Feder, at your service. Touring guitarist, and a firm believer that after decades of practice and hard work it shouldn’t be a pipe dream for musicians to earn six figures 😊
Another entirely different aspect to gig pay are doing special events or private events. Those are totally different than playing for a concert/show, nightclub, restaurant, bar, and any public type of gig. Gigs for a wedding, corporate function, or any type of private occasion special events fall into another market rate of pay. Sidemen musicians typically make much more than what a traditional public gig pays. Bandleaders who book private events are able to make what you described as high tier money and beyond that. I realized this a long time ago and started a booking agency to book my own groups as well as contract out other musicians and groups for special events. In my opinion, the most pragmatic thing a professional musician can do is to learn how to book private events. Understand the market rate for booking a wedding band, or a small jazz ensemble, or singles like pianists, guitarists, harpists, etc. Even if you don't run a booking agency, knowing the business of booking events is good knowledge. Know the business of contracting and booking gigs for your own sake even if you're just a sideman.
We were a touring band 1970 - 1975. My brother went to high school school and college with Dan Akroyd (Blues Brothers) who came over to watch our band practice a few times. In one scene in the movie they are trying to get $200 paid for a show but "Bob", the bar owner, tells them they owe him $100 due to a $300 bar bill. Thats an actual story we told Dan about. It happened to us a few times especially when our roadies destroyed a room (feather pillows and plum sauce). After one gig our road manager came to us with the weekly profit/loss statement and there was a debit: $150 - Group Dope
Yes, the hang factor is big. Connection is important. Getting ssked back for repeats is huge. As a recent jazz fest clinician, drummer and master class it got me $400. It was 14 hours from start to finish. Great hang. Top teir musicians. Dinner included that was very nice. So a 2 hour break for that. Otherwise, a serious push all day. Some studio sessions recently were $200 flat fee up to 4 hours. We basically were done in 2. More of those coming. I paid musician friends for my son's graduation party 150.00 each for 2 sets of outdoor patio jazz. Some gigs I do to gain connection or to be a good guy to help out a band with rehearsals in a big band. Another jazz fest coming up will pay 275.00, but only about a 6 hour commitment. So hourly, it pays really well even if overall it is not high pay. Did a 2 show jazz concert series the last years that required a few rehearsals and 2 days with q concert each day. 1,000 for that. So, it's all over the place.
I would be curious what your guess would be for people like Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer who put on the KISS makeup and not only toured but did meet and greets. I'm sure there's a built in deal that includes the meet and greet or do you think those are done per show depending on the number of tickets sold for those preshow events?
Very interesting video. I had a career in Biotech and Metical Devices, and have been an amateur musician and singer (including gospel) my whole life. I always wondered about the “road less travelled”. Seems like you have to be in the Lee Sklar level to match professional Biotech salaries. I travelled a lot for work - business class flights and 3-star hotels. When we travelled with the Gospel Choir, I had to lower my expectations , but the music was fantastic and the hang was incredible. I now have lifelong friends with a solid spiritual connection. We even performed at Montreux. If you want to have the musician experience but keep your day job, find a great local choir.
I'm in a new area. I understand asking for less because my names not out there but I also don't want to undercut myself. Is it just better to ask prospective venue's and clients what their budget is and negotiate from there? I recently had a lead go totally cold when they asked what my rate is over a DM.
Been looking after the finances of a band for 20 plus years and These are very good insights into money possibilities . The only input I have is be aware if you are a foreigner with a tour that’s in the USA as your subject to a 30 % withholding Tax unless you have your US Tax status in order . DON’T let that scare you it’s not hard to get it done and as long as you file US taxes every year EVEN if you’re filing a 0$ balance you will not be subject to the 30% .
When I was in the Musicians Union the saying was " know the scale and be willing to work for it"....😂..... Negotiate your deal directly with the artist or his band supervisor....
Travis, thats an amazing topic to talk about, but brooo, it's very interesting to see how different it's the payment gap it's between USA and the rest of latinamerica, believe me we are not even close to that hahahs. P.D: Nice video bro
I have a friend who worked in a symphony orchestra in a major city. He was considered a city employee. He had a salary year round and a pension and benefits. He also had the option to work as a session musician and made extra from touring with the symphony. He had a very good deal considering many friends were going broke as classical musicians.
Yeah, it seems like if you're not trying to be a rock star, you can make a very nice living being a session or touring musician, especially once you develop contacts within the biz.
I am in a completly different industry, but I guess it applies the same here, there are likely the same kind of people in the entertainment business. Some prospect customers are not willing to pay ANYthing, so they argue "You can use this job/gig/project as an example of your skills, your body of work towards your future customers, kind of asdvertising. You are allowed to mention us as your reference of work, so we actually think you ought to work with no pay for us." Yes, sure! Unfortunately I have to pay my rent/phone/gasoline/food/taxes today. I can't work for free!
Yes I definitely always want to know that as I do have a few friends that are musicians but as I love music I did wanna know what does the actual musician make for the band member of that study with the band thank you so much
This is a great video with a ton of great info; however, I would be curious to get your thoughts on a few items. For the lower to mid range paying musicians (smaller gigs), how do you go about issuing a contract or discussing those terms? I have found from my experience that many musicians who start down this route loose gigs because most people don't like paper work or discussing compensation. While music is fun and fulfilling, one must be compensated for their time and some gigs of which promise pay don't fulfill those obligations. How do you handle circumstances like this where you've provided your time and services and have been under paid or not at all? Thanks for the awesome content!
I've been wondering about pay rates, thanks for answering. Now I have more questions. Do you get a 1099 or is this cash? What are the hotels like? Is there per diem on the road? How much of the day does the employer get on gig days...like 4 hour for sound check and show, but 20 hours is free? So many more questions.
how is travel, meals & lodging paid for (and who pays) for international, national tours, appearances, layovers? Are equipment shipping, insurance, rentals, union setup and foreign performer tax, customs fees. etc. negotiated w employer?
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Excellent info! My experience (But over 10 years ago) was $50 to $100 unsigned band in NYC and $250 to $500 with cover/ wedding band, but very sporadic. So, in order to survive I became a sound engineer, first as a club sound mixer (steady $150/ night) and then started doing TV/ Films and the pay went way up to $250 to $1000 a day and pretty steady and easier on my ears.
A thousand bucks a day is decent. I could live off that ok.
Well I worked for GE for 5 years and for Nike for 20 years. That's how I survived
In terms of TV/Films are you referring to film scoring?
@@FateTK99 No, Just recording sound for these shows, no music mixing for them.
@@devilsoffspring5519decent ?
As a working high end freelancer musician from the 70’s through the early 2000’s, this is great, solid and accurate information from a professional that is doing it. I worked with many many acts like tony Bennett, Ella, mel torme, temps, theatre, you name it. My three kids are all professional musicians in Miami, nyc and chicago. All play with big names in the commercial and jazz fields. This is totally accurate and just really good information to know for young musicians entering the business. Thank you!
EXCELLENT!!!! As a drummer at 52 years old playing for 40, this video has Enhanced my knowledge. I played drums for a Major Ministry almost 2 years that paid for airfare, food, hotel accommodations, and they supplied the drum equipment. When I say they paid bountifully where I didn’t ask how much I was being paid because I love playing drums, They Exceeded And Beyond where I didn’t think I was worthy of it. Again, Vital Information!!!!!
Mr Dyke I have been searching on the Internet for years for information on the pay for gigs and now you come out with a video that is needed. Thank you very much
Been a recording engineer and musician for longer than you've been on earth! I can't think of a better breakdown of life in the bizz! ThxU
Before I accept a gig, I asked the same 3 questions you stated. I call them the 3 categories based upon for accepting/declining gigs.
Number one is the Business. Is the gig pay market value par, below par, above par?
Second is the Musical Integrity. This is usually contingent upon the caliber of musicians playing on the gig. I have a personal rule that I must play with players who are at least on my level or better. Even if the music material for the gig isn't the greatest, if the players are outstanding professionals, the musicality and performance will usually be good regardless of the material/genre.
The third category is the Fun Factor. That's similar to whether the gig is a good hang. The fun factor is highly influenced by the musical integrity of the situation, which depends upon your musical colleagues. The nature and extraneous circumstances of the gig may make the gig a fun or not so fun experience.
If one of the categories is low, then the other two categories need to be above par. If two of the categories are low, then the third one needs to very high. When all three are low and below standards, the gig is untenable, which I firmly but politely decline. I had a gig where the pay was above par, the musicians were outstanding, which made the Musical Integrity high, but the Fun Factor was quite low. The load-in/out and travel to the gig was so labor intensive and kinda f'd up, that it really made the gig suffer in the enjoyment of it. I knew the circumstances coming and chose to do it because the pay was good and the players were great, which made up for the shitty fun factor. I declined a couple gigs recently because the pay was under par, the musical integrity was questionable, and the fun factor would be very low. The pay was low because the leader asking me to do the gig wanted me to have an unpaid rehearsal in addition to the gig, the leader struck me as not very good and the players he mentioned I knew were mediocre, and the gig was about 5 hours one way and 5 hours back. Low pay, mediocre musicianship, and not fun whatsoever long distance travel made this an easy decline.
Sometimes, I've done gigs when all 3 categories are low. The reason: the shitty money. All pro musicians I believe have done this to an extent in their careers usually because we didn't know any better. Also just trying to scrape a living together as a working musician, and needing to pay the bills anyway you can. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. Being a professional working musician is hard like any creative occupation. But, over time I've developed those 3 categories to really filter out what's worth it to my time and my own integrity. When called upon as a sideman musician, accepting or declining a gig is the most basic prerogative one has. If you decide to accept a gig then you must fulfill the work with the utmost professionalism and musicality no matter what. Going through a process of asking those three questions in the video, and my own three categories, empowers the musician to know exactly what they are about in relation to the work being offered to them. Therefore, this allows one to make gig choices with certainty and clarity.
I am new to MA. I met a lady at a Guitar Center, where she was taking drum lessons, and ended up giving her additional lessons.
She also pays for sessions at a School of Rock. The drum "instructor" does not actually teach the drummers how to play. When the 3 students ask questions about their assigned songs, he tells them to "just feel it", so she turned to me for guidance. I would write out the music for her (he never provides sheet music for them) and help her to learn the song.
Because of her level, I would have to simplify more complicated beats to their basics.
The music selection is 98% rock music from the 50's - 70's and 98% of That is Not what was popular at the time!
Great for a beginning drummer, but extremely boring to me.
Anyway, she eventually got a group of fellow students together to "jam" out on Friday nights.
None of them know any songs outside of what they've learned at the School of Rock, so it was just an extra practice. She invited me and another drummer to join. 3 drummers. That's cool, but I don't like most of the music that they play. So, they used my drum set. I didn't mind. I gave advice where I could.
One Friday, when all 3 drummers, a bass player and a vocalist showed up, a friend of hers also heard them. They rehearsed their newer songs by playing along with the music. The friend invited us to play at her son's 18th birthday party. They accepted.
Someone brought up the fact that we would have to learn all new songs because 18 year olds probably won't like the music they play. She literally said, "we'll play three songs that he likes".
We are talking about hours of playing, with an hour off because one of the instructors from School of Rock would do a solo set.
Someone suggested a song that "was popular 50 years ago."
I said to count me out.
When she asked why, I told her that the music selection is too slow for a party.
Like, Hotel California is one of their most "upbeat" tempos!
I suggested that they could learn today's pop music easy because most of it is less musically complicated than the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, The Eagles, etc.
I suggested getting 10 songs from the Billboards Top 40 from the 60's to now.
She flat out said no!
She basically said that I was a musical snob and that I should be grateful for ANY chance to play.
She even implied that I don't know how to take advantage of a situation.
I tried to explain to her about musical integrity, that I can not sit for hours and play music that I don't enjoy.
She's been playing the drums for a year. I've been playing for 52.
I told her that it's a hobby to her, but music is life to me.
I asked if we were getting paid for it.
Nope, "it's just a band rehearsal at a kid's birthday party", her exact words.
I took my drums and left.
Musical Integrity. "To thine own self be true... "
You sure are picky for a guy begging for a $10/hr gigs.
@@SOLDOZER 1: No one is “begging” for anything.
2: $10 an hour is an insult, unless you’re a teen band, or just plain “suck”.
3: If you have to “beg” for a gig, or you have to “beg” to be paid, you don’t deserve either.
@@derrickburwell7777 I was a touring musician for 18 years. I know what it pays. It dont pay for piss and you dont have any room to be picky. There's 30,000 musicians willing to take the gig without being picky.
@@SOLDOZER You live your life and I’ll live mine. I don’t seek, nor do I need, your approval.
Your experiences are yours, so walk Your walk. My shoes are filled with My feet.
Also, No One joins a band to play music that they Don’t Enjoy.
If that’s what you did, that’s You.
🤷🏽
Bro amazing content, ever since I started my bass journey you’ve been a blessing to me every step of the way 🙏🏽💯
Wow, Travis, you really got it on point. I‘m not just marvelling at your truthfulness, but also at your skills of delivering such a topic with ease. Keep on rockin man! 💪😎🎸
As a musician myself, these are definitely accurate numbers.
are the numbers any higher if you’re a solo artist?
@@TimeGallondepends if ur getting streams and album purchases on multiple platforms…granted thats if the record industry doesnt already have u by the nuts
@@mikeh024 I’m talking payments strictly from live show gigs
For artists yes, for church it's not been my experience. I think it also has a lot to do with what part of the country in which you're located.
@@TimeGallon can confirm his numbers are right. As solo artist the low end starting out numbers are the same. As things goes up, the front person of the act can take more but has a LOT more work. Booking calls and emails for details, taxes, paperwork, stage plots, corresponding with catering, events staff, lights and sound etc….it’s a lot. So then they either need another cut made for management or take more on themselves and pay accordingly. One huge asset a touring musician can bring, especially at the lower or middle end, is to take care of these things. Have a sound system, know how some of this front of house back of house stuff works, help the artists you like and pass block some of this stuff for them, be organized, go above and beyond, be helpful. I took a side job as a stage hand during college and can’t tell you how much I learned about the whole operation and how much it has helped me contribute value to artists I’m working with
The last tour I did was in 1992. I got paid $75 per show, plus daily travel, food and lodging provided by the tour. So we didn’t starve on the road, at least, but it wasn’t real money heavy.
Telling the truth.
Big Fan from the Philippines! I learn a lot from your content, please keep uploading. Thanks Travis!🎉🎉
not a lot musicians do this! appreciate the real talk Travis.
Interesting breakdown of yes or no. I was taught a different set of qualifications. 1, money, 2, career connections, 3 hang/enjoyment. Your message to folks hiring is solid. All in all, this was a well explained, well thought out video. Nice one!
Wow! Incredibly helpful information! Thanks for sharing!!!
I think this info applies to Nashville but definitely not west coast bands. We have always been paid weekly, without regard to how many shows that week. Could be one, could be six. Pro- rated daily off of the weekly rate. No such thing as a 'travel day'. We get paid from the minute you walk out the door to go to the airport until you get back through that door. Much simpler and fairer. Cheers!
Right on! 🎉
This has helped me so much Travis! This has given me hope to pursue a career as a session guitarist!
Very True and accurate numbers, it is hard nowadays, but there is always that gig with good money good music, and a good hang.
This is very helpful. I have an 80's coverband and have been paying 60 dollars per rehearsal plus food, and shows 200 dollars for a 2 set 2 hour show plus dinner. I was worried I wasn't in the range. When we do a corporate gig I can pay 500. I have heard so many different things, this helped me make sure I am respecting my team.
Why do you pay to play? How do you afford it? Or are you illiterate?
He is the bandleader talking about paying his band fairly.@@boethius1812
@@boethius1812 hes the person paying the hired musicians and booking the gigs so he’d pay you $200 to play bass for an 80s night and maybe he’s the drummer or singer
Probably best to ask politely than insult someone if you don’t understand their comment. 😊
If you don't look after the guys you lose them.
Hey thank you for posting sir...this stuff helps me explain to my students what is current!
Right on point. These are realistic. Many other “pay scales could be discussed in future vids. Music directors, Low, med. high level radio commercial producers, show gigs. Helpful info.
Thanks.
In my experience for just bar gigs that are 2.5-4hours and selling a few different outfits.
Acoustic duos
300-750
Full band
800-1500
Private event
1.5k-3k
Wedding
2-6k
Per musician
Pre covid avg
150-250
Post covid avg
200-300
Imo as a full timer, musicians got a much bigger raise than most ppl. If u play like 2-4 times a week, it's pretty livable. Playing church helps a ton. But if i gig 3 times thats about 600 plus tips.
One band I was in (rock/blues/country) was kind of the house band at a bar. They paid us in drinks, until they figured out it would be cheaper to pay us 500 a night ... heh heh. I never looked at music as a way to make money, and your amounts look about right. The one thing that surprised me in one band was playing wedding gigs, and also fancy hotels. They paid 1000 to 2000 a show or weekend, and my wallet filled up pretty fast. I could even make a house payment with that money. But, yeah, I never looked at music as a way to make money. Your advice was spot on. Sometimes the 250 dollar gig at the pizza joint with some other really good musicians is worth it to make great music.
you are right...I make pretty descent money doing weddings and corporate gigs and have a full time job.
What a great informative video, keep up the good work Travis.
In Australia a basic musician playing day an acoustic set at a pub gets between $300-1000 a night… depending on size of the gig…. Average would be $5-600…..
Great content! Greetings from the Philippines 🖐️
I've had the privilege of playing around the world with musicians in all types of genres like pop, reggae, and funk, and I can say that you're spot on when it comes to the average pay.
Great topic. Good things to know. Great vid! I own my own business but I play at church most Sundays, played the local scene but never went on the road. And even in my later age I am getting calls still to play guitar as a hired gun. I never considered a scale for the work. It’s always been a passion to play and it becoming a job I always felt would take the fun away. But still your info is very valuable. I just subscribed
Thank you Travis, this was very informative ❤
Good morning my Brother I love your videos. They are so helpful. Thank you so staying humble and for letting God use your gifts for His Glory.
Back in the 70s and eighties,i played all over northern California in a country rockband. I'm talking about honky tonks, biker bars hippie clubs you name it. I played a pedal steel or a telecaster 'or both. I made $75 or a $100 each night Depending and those were dollars that were worth more than those today. Usually beer was free and there was plenty of weed in the parking lot. Life was good indneed and I won't mention the benefits.
Steel and Tele bro. Started off in Ft. Lauderdale in 1978. Now, there's no gigs.
I spoke with a guy who worked with Cher's band leader. He was paid $5000 a week during the runs in Las Vegas. Some band touring musicians also get royalties from songwriting or percentages of ticket sales. However the rule for many musicians is poor wages. I even know some signed artists with record deals who don't have high album sales. Some of them even had to open their homes as bed and breakfasts to make ends meet.
I think record deals are meant to keep the Musician poor.
That Tom McDonald guy is still independent though and makes millions with zero touring
So are we talking per person , say in a group? Is it 100$ per person? Groups might range in size, from 2-5 or even more. Also a local gig is usually 3.5-4 hrs. If we make 300$ - 400$ thats average
My father was an orchestra leader and a Local 802 member. Back when he was playing club dates 1940-1984 everyone received union scale. He had a contract that he had to keep in his jacket in case a union rep showed up… very different times now. Great information though..thank you.
Yeah and if you’re doing union broadway shows you get health benefits and pension payments which really comes in handy later in life. I did decades of union shows and concerts and love my pension!
Thank you for this video Travis! Really valuable info for the musical community and very well done. Best
$100-$130 is still a bit low for low-level gigs. I’m from NYC so it might be a bit different, but most small artists and also bars are willing to dish out at least $150-$200 or even upwards of $300.
Also, it would be worth it to note that if you’re ever in a situation where the person booking you is asking to bring your own sound, they should be able to provide at least $100 on top of what you are already getting paid.
Great video, Travis! Lots of good things to reference, thanks for shedding some light on this 🙌
Those are per-person rates btw^
I Agree 💯
Thank you so much! This is the first time I've heard about the different levels of pay. I'm playing casuals for the same rate of pay that I got years ago. You've gotta love it!!!
REMEMBER also normally you are paid as a 1099 which means you provide ALL medical insurance and pay your taxes plus a self employment tax that is in addition to FICA and SICA tax. When you deduct all this it is a big chunk.
You come across as a great caring person Travis ! I hope you have a good , successful blife 🙂
I’ve just found out …there’s no ‘b’ in life …..🥺
@@paulgraham674Dang! I was kind of hoping there was more to life. I was hoping the b was it! Take care Paul!
This was great, and def made me supremely grateful of my situation
Very insightful and revealing, thank you.
Awesome video. Very informative. You cover alot, but did not touch on recording sessions. Would love you to do a video that covers rates for recording sessions.
Great video Man, I get asked these questions a lot.
Excellent video, did you cover per diem, if so I missed it, but if not can you please explain it ✔💯💪🏾✊🏽🎶✌🏾🙏🏽
Thank you. This is very informative. 👍
Man - I love you! Your are honest and this is rare in this business. A lot of musicians earn "so much" and others are begging because they earn so "little". The business offer all chances, risks and circumstances. Are there coming people, because you are playing? Is the Bar making more money, because you are playing? No, and no? So you are a handcraft-musician - ok thats the low end. Can you play, sing, dance/perform and the people are paying a high entrance to see your show? Thats the high end. How low, can the low end be? $ 0,- and waiting for tips. How high can the high-end can be? As musician in a band/orchestra I think you told it right $ 1.000,- . But as front-men/women , as "star" it can go up without limit. Look to Vegas. Or to the birthday party last week in Saudiarabia, where Celine Dion was singing. No limits - be good, get better, entertain the people and dont be shy to want money.
GREAT INFO T..
I just left an artist that I've played with for almost 15 years because he turned out to be a BIGGER A-hole than I was warned about when I first started playing for him. ... AND he was taking credit for creativity that didn't come from him, especially when it came to me. So at my last gig with him, I told him that from then on it was cost HIM $200 cash upon my arrival at the venue before I would unpack and plug up an extention chord... let alone plug in my axe... I feel so much freedom now🔥🔥🔥
I am sure that was a tough decision to do, but I can feel your relief. Other opportunities will come. Others will appreciate you way more.
Thank you so much travis . Wonderful video.
This is probably one of the best videos I've seen on this
Wow , as someone that has a nice 9-5. In information technology and was hoping to take Sunday only and turn it into more after the kids fly the coop , that is a shock to my system , as the does not include health Insurance or retirement 😢
Guess I will keep my Sunday worship gig and start working on my Cisco ccie wireless certification
Thanks again for all the insight from the music business
"Is the money good, is the music good, is the hang good?" Words to live by in any type of work I reckon.
Not really. Most people have to be content if this first thing you mentioned is tolerable. And most people don't go to work for the "hang"! They go to grind out a living.
@@devilsoffspring5519 Oh I dunno, getting paid OK to do a job you like or at least tolerate and work with people you like sounds like a pretty good way to live.
@@adam872 I guess, but it's asking a hell of a lot for people who have to work for a living which is most of them. Most people have to be content with getting paid whatever it pays and not having to flog themselves just for getting fired.
Adding in a fourth consideration: Is there a “political component” to taking a particular gig? In other words, will I meet new people that could garner leverage for future gigs and/or a better situation down the road.
@@kenster3554 That's a good point but it isn't political because it still revolves around your own talent and it's merits, not using physical violence to destroy other people's talents so so you can stay on top by pushing other people down if they happen to be better at it than you.
Politics revolves around physical violence and/or other methods of getting power over people. It is NOT appropriate for the world of music, which is about creating/relating and bringing happiness into the world and NOT about destroying other people's pursuit of happiness in order to achieve tyrannical power.
Great vid and fairly accurate. For financial reasons, I never had the courage to be a full time musician because I've played mostly in church. If I were to try to make a stable living in the music industry I would go more towards production/sound engineering or being a studio session musician. Musician pay can be so inconsistent and can take a long time to to establish yourself to command a liveable wage in my opinion.
Crushed this dude! Great explanations, this is valuable knowledge for pros!
Very interesting. I've often wondered about this topic and it seems like a lot of musicians are complimentary about its accuracy.
Working production in Nashville, this is a great video.
Great info -- finally I know what the questions are! Thanks
Pretty accurate video
I have a label/bus gig and I’m sitting at $550 per show. My previous label/bus gig was for a fairly big artist and it only paid $325 per show plus per diem and travel days.
This is excellent information.
Very helpful info thank you for the insight I run and manage my own coverband and this gave me great info maybe next make a video about playing for private events or Corp gig or City Events 😎. Sending love from Los Angeles CA
In film ove heard it as the 3R rule. I'm a local 600 AC and steadicam operator, and what I 've heard is: R1 Rate. R2 Reel. R3 Relationship. 2 of them will do as well. This seems to cross all platforms so I second that as a truth in most creative industries! Great wrap out btw!
Thanks for sharing! This is why I had to flip from music to working in the film and television industry. Even the Production Assistants who carry sandbags, make copies and run errands (very important tasks) make $250+ a day and they're the lowest paid person on a set, including a basic set not just big features and commercials. Camera pointers $350-$450, Camera Operators $650-$1000, Cinematographers $1500-$3500, Gaffers $750, Audio recordists $850-$1200, Hair & Makeup $650-$850. Plus people who provide specialized gear with their jobs charge rental fees. Those are all 10 hour days. 1/2 pay for travel, plus meals and lodging. I'm not saying it's all that amazing or better but it's a similar creative process that many people will work for free just to get a foot in the door.
What about studio time pay. They used to have a union scale for this. Is it still available?
Thanks Travis! Awesome video
My brother has played drums for several well known national acts. His gig pay, expense per diam and travel worked out to be about $20k for a 43 gig tour over about 10 weeks including rehearsal time. He filled in for another really well known bands drummer for 3 shows over 5 days and was paid $5k plus his trans and hotel. This was on almost no notice however. This first show was only his 4th or 5th time through the 60-70 min set list.
Feeling blessed after watching, thank you!
Great information, great content.
Anytime someone provides quality work, I’m puzzled why no one’s comments are acknowledged .
It’s off putting, just my opinion.
Excellent info here and very well presented! Thanks Travis!
What a cool guy , very genuine, blessings to you Travis
Excellent content and you are an awesome speaker.The very best to you sir.
Great info and video! Thank you!
Travis, love your content mate! You cracked me up with your "pay rates are the rates that people pay" comment. Even drummers could understand that. 😅
Nashville starting rates are better than most other spots. Some nights my bandmates and I make less than $50 a player. Often, those of us on the local scene here in San Francisco lose money to pay our musicians at least $50 a player. The rest of your tiers, though, are 100% accurate.
Thanks for the video! Professional touring guitarist here. It is WILD how many musicians are willing to play for insultingly low rates, and consequently WILD how many artists think it is appropriate for their musicians to be underpaid. It’s 2024. It costs $7 to get a cup of coffee. Let’s all start saying no to $150 gigs, please. We are all worth way more than that.
right ! at 310 mark he states there is no set in stone rate.... JOIN THE UNION and there is ! Back in the day (late 1980s for me) especially in the East Coast area & in LA you HAD to be in Union or you did not get on the Stage.
If you were serious about this you would use your name - If you're gonna make a stand put your name to it - just sayin 🎸
It's not what you think you're worth, it's what the market will bear. Most musicians, no matter how good, don't make much money. It's simply not a money-making business for most of them.
Unfortunately most musician’s unions aren’t even worth the cost of Union dues these days :-/
I dunno if I would call commenting on a RUclips video “making a stand” by any stretch of the imagination, but regardless - Alex Feder, at your service. Touring guitarist, and a firm believer that after decades of practice and hard work it shouldn’t be a pipe dream for musicians to earn six figures 😊
Another entirely different aspect to gig pay are doing special events or private events. Those are totally different than playing for a concert/show, nightclub, restaurant, bar, and any public type of gig. Gigs for a wedding, corporate function, or any type of private occasion special events fall into another market rate of pay. Sidemen musicians typically make much more than what a traditional public gig pays. Bandleaders who book private events are able to make what you described as high tier money and beyond that. I realized this a long time ago and started a booking agency to book my own groups as well as contract out other musicians and groups for special events. In my opinion, the most pragmatic thing a professional musician can do is to learn how to book private events. Understand the market rate for booking a wedding band, or a small jazz ensemble, or singles like pianists, guitarists, harpists, etc. Even if you don't run a booking agency, knowing the business of booking events is good knowledge. Know the business of contracting and booking gigs for your own sake even if you're just a sideman.
We were a touring band 1970 - 1975. My brother went to high school school and college with Dan Akroyd (Blues Brothers) who came over to watch our band practice a few times. In one scene in the movie they are trying to get $200 paid for a show but "Bob", the bar owner, tells them they owe him $100 due to a $300 bar bill. Thats an actual story we told Dan about. It happened to us a few times especially when our roadies destroyed a room (feather pillows and plum sauce). After one gig our road manager came to us with the weekly profit/loss statement and there was a debit:
$150 - Group Dope
Yes, the hang factor is big. Connection is important. Getting ssked back for repeats is huge.
As a recent jazz fest clinician, drummer and master class it got me $400. It was 14 hours from start to finish. Great hang. Top teir musicians. Dinner included that was very nice. So a 2 hour break for that. Otherwise, a serious push all day.
Some studio sessions recently were $200 flat fee up to 4 hours. We basically were done in 2. More of those coming.
I paid musician friends for my son's graduation party 150.00 each for 2 sets of outdoor patio jazz.
Some gigs I do to gain connection or to be a good guy to help out a band with rehearsals in a big band.
Another jazz fest coming up will pay 275.00, but only about a 6 hour commitment. So hourly, it pays really well even if overall it is not high pay.
Did a 2 show jazz concert series the last years that required a few rehearsals and 2 days with q concert each day. 1,000 for that.
So, it's all over the place.
I agree with these numbers. And church musicians really give themselves to serve in ministry and make albums and so on
This is super helpful thank you so much!!
I would be curious what your guess would be for people like Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer who put on the KISS makeup and not only toured but did meet and greets. I'm sure there's a built in deal that includes the meet and greet or do you think those are done per show depending on the number of tickets sold for those preshow events?
This was very helpful. Appreciate it
Very interesting information! Thank you!
Great Video Bro!🤝🏾
Very interesting video. I had a career in Biotech and Metical Devices, and have been an amateur musician and singer (including gospel) my whole life. I always wondered about the “road less travelled”. Seems like you have to be in the Lee Sklar level to match professional Biotech salaries. I travelled a lot for work - business class flights and 3-star hotels. When we travelled with the Gospel Choir, I had to lower my expectations , but the music was fantastic and the hang was incredible. I now have lifelong friends with a solid spiritual connection. We even performed at Montreux. If you want to have the musician experience but keep your day job, find a great local choir.
I'm in a new area. I understand asking for less because my names not out there but I also don't want to undercut myself. Is it just better to ask prospective venue's and clients what their budget is and negotiate from there? I recently had a lead go totally cold when they asked what my rate is over a DM.
Im wondering what jones and jordan get paid on the Stones gig. Top of the top act...not original members?? Is it a few grand per show??
Been looking after the finances of a band for 20 plus years and These are very good insights into money possibilities . The only input I have is be aware if you are a foreigner with a tour that’s in the USA as your subject to a 30 % withholding Tax unless you have your US Tax status in order . DON’T let that scare you it’s not hard to get it done and as long as you file US taxes every year
EVEN if you’re filing a 0$ balance you will not be subject to the 30% .
Could you make a video that shines some light on session players ?
When I was in the Musicians Union the saying was " know the scale and be willing to work for it"....😂..... Negotiate your deal directly with the artist or his band supervisor....
Great info Travis, Thanks man!
Travis, thats an amazing topic to talk about, but brooo, it's very interesting to see how different it's the payment gap it's between USA and the rest of latinamerica, believe me we are not even close to that hahahs.
P.D: Nice video bro
I have a friend who worked in a symphony orchestra in a major city. He was considered a city employee. He had a salary year round and a pension and benefits. He also had the option to work as a session musician and made extra from touring with the symphony. He had a very good deal considering many friends were going broke as classical musicians.
Yeah, it seems like if you're not trying to be a rock star, you can make a very nice living being a session or touring musician, especially once you develop contacts within the biz.
I am in a completly different industry, but I guess it applies the same here, there are likely the same kind of people in the entertainment business.
Some prospect customers are not willing to pay ANYthing, so they argue "You can use this job/gig/project as an example of your skills, your body of work towards your future customers, kind of asdvertising. You are allowed to mention us as your reference of work, so we actually think you ought to work with no pay for us."
Yes, sure! Unfortunately I have to pay my rent/phone/gasoline/food/taxes today. I can't work for free!
Thanks I Kinda always Wondered About Player's Pay Rates.
Yes I definitely always want to know that as I do have a few friends that are musicians but as I love music I did wanna know what does the actual musician make for the band member of that study with the band thank you so much
Thanks Travis! Really Insightful.
This is a great video with a ton of great info; however, I would be curious to get your thoughts on a few items. For the lower to mid range paying musicians (smaller gigs), how do you go about issuing a contract or discussing those terms? I have found from my experience that many musicians who start down this route loose gigs because most people don't like paper work or discussing compensation. While music is fun and fulfilling, one must be compensated for their time and some gigs of which promise pay don't fulfill those obligations. How do you handle circumstances like this where you've provided your time and services and have been under paid or not at all? Thanks for the awesome content!
I've been wondering about pay rates, thanks for answering. Now I have more questions. Do you get a 1099 or is this cash? What are the hotels like? Is there per diem on the road? How much of the day does the employer get on gig days...like 4 hour for sound check and show, but 20 hours is free? So many more questions.
how is travel, meals & lodging paid for (and who pays) for international, national tours, appearances, layovers? Are equipment shipping, insurance, rentals, union setup and foreign performer tax, customs fees. etc. negotiated w employer?
How long do you give them for rehearsal, and do you mandate any breaks during that time?