What Do You Get Paid For 1,000,000,000 Streams?
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2024
- In this episode, I try to figure out how much money a hit song REALLY makes.
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Sounds like a classic “Confuseopoly.” Keep things so confusing, that no-one can figure out how they're being shafted.
like the government
You mean airline ticket pricing?
No, it's the audience. For example if 90% of your Spotify streams come from India, where only 10% of people bought Premium and remaining 90% is ad generated, while ads in India pay 10x less than anywhere in the world, you might get paid like $70 thousand per billion streams while if most of your listeners are from rich countries such as US or Scandinavia, you might easily see $3 million per billion streams. Also different platforms such as RUclips, Apple music and Spotify have different average wealth of a user, so they will pay different amounts even if you get audience from same countries.
So basically FED/IMF...
Like the American private healthcare+private insurance system.
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”
― Hunter S. Thompson
"Yaarrgggargagha"
Also Hunter S. Thompson
Awesome…..HST was the bomb!
I think you meant to say “-Steve Albini” 😏💯
"SWINE!"
it's because its a marketplace where the customers do not get to decide the value of your work, instead there are a group of gatekeepers you have to work through, and they get to decide if they think your art is good, and not the customer.
As an independent artist and songwriter for my solo music, I've consistently made about $0.003 per stream on Spotify for the past 4 years or so. $3000 per 1,000,000 streams (Apple Music pays more than double Spotify). Being the only writer for my music, I'm able to support my family with that streaming income. But if I had to split it multiple ways, it would make that mountain so much harder to climb. I feel like being a truly 100% independent is becoming the only real way to make a living off stream as a mid level artist.
Tom MacDonald does it very successfully. From A to Z only him and a hand full of family members made him very successful
Where can we listen??
@@steveb6718 If you search my name on any streaming platform, it should pop up.
@@steveb6718you’re kidding, right?
Hey, I just went through your website and into spotify, etc...
Great music, by the way :)
Just curious though... Your top song has like 4 million plays, a couple of other ones have like just under 1 million.
I'm just wondering how only 12-15 thousand dollars supports your whole family like you suggest it does? (If it's 3K per 1 million)
Or is it that Apple music is the one paying the bills? Just trying to work out your maths to help me know what I need to reach to.
I ask as a fellow composer with a family haha. (I write for films and games mostly)
That is one of the reasons I still buy CDs. From what I have heard, the artest gets paid more from CD purchases than from the streaming services, and I want the people who enrich my life to be paid well.
❤
So do I. Goes back to 1970s when Brinsley Schwartz were popular but made no money as most people taped their records. I did tape records I owned for use away from the record player
I will buy CDs within reasonable prices. If a physical copy is more than $15, I'll still purchase the artist's music, but either used or digitally (iTunes). Purchasing music is a big help to musicians, however all of my favorites will tell you to support by going to live ahows and buying their merchandise. Those are the 2 biggests supporters over buying their music and/or streaming.
cd's might make a big comeback! They got new tech that can apparently hold petabytes on one disc....
@@overtonesnteatime198 That would be one long album
People often say that the music industry is corrupt ,.... it's actually the whole publishing industry...
Not just the music industry
Any industry if you wanna get into it, entertainment industries wrongs are just more well known simply because entertainment is meant to be popular so its well known and personal so we care. Even then, tons of dirt Is hidden or brushed away.
Imagine the rest of the world industries that has no interest in popularity while also obscuring and hiding dirt. Very scary world
Most people don't realize how evil they really are until it's shown to them. For example "Did you ever tell a lie?" (Yes, I guess) Did you know that's deception and manipulation and is basically pretending to be God? (Hmmmn, never thought of it that way.) How would you like it if someone did that to you? (Well, I guess not.) That's just one lie. Ever steal something? etc etc. There is no such thing as a good person. Only evil people, some of whom are desperately trying to be good. And therein lies humanity's biggest problem. PRIDE. Anyone who calls themselves good is simply lying to themselves. It's deception to oneself. All this boils down to "Do unto others as you would have them do to YOU." But no one does it all the time. They simply can't. It's not human nature.
@@blueeyedsoulman Well, human nature is the "sin "nature. That's why Jesus had to come and be the perfect sacrifice that those who put their faith and trust in him shall not perish. All who have ever lived have sinned. Only Jesus was perfect.
and beyond
Zoom out even further... It's all of entertainment that is corrupt.
Here's why you can't get a straight answer (simplified version) - Looking at Spotify - Each stream is paid at a different rate. Free tier listener payout is lower than the paid tier. Live in a country where the paid tier is super low, like India? Then your free/paid rates are lower on streams generated in that market. Now, in each market, the streaming revenue is a pool of money. The major labels have negotiated payout rates with Spotify for master recordings. These rates are not public knowledge and they are likely higher than everyone else (because the majors were investors in Spotify and had closed-door meetings in the early days). Those 3 majors get their slice of the pie first at whatever their negotiated rate is. When the label gets theirs, they do the split with each recording artist according to the terms of their contract. Artist hasn't recouped the cost of their record yet? They get nothing. If the artist has recouped and they're on a typical 80/20 deal, then they'll get 20% and the label keeps 80%. After the majors are paid, Spotify takes whatever is left over in the streaming pool and divides by % of streams an artist had on the platform and pays out to the master rights holders through their distributor - from medium labels down to independents on Distrokid. The total size of the pool changes every month depending on how many people stream around the world and how often. That's Spotify. But Apple, Tidal, Amazon Music... well they each have their own rates. Now... that was **JUST** for master rights holders (who own the recording). Songwriters & Publishing is a whole separate thing and flows through a combination of PRO (ASCAP etc.), the MLC ( or other mechanical rights org.) Songwriters do not typically get a % on master revenue. If you wrote the song, own your publishing, performed it, and own the master, then you get all the revenue, but only if you've registered everything properly and know where to collect it from. Thank you for attending my TED Talk.
Great post. Rick should interview you next!
Nice work dude.😎
Can you tell me where you have to register your stuff? What organizations? I would be infinitely grateful for information from a gentleman like yourself. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
People with the mentality of @wordsSHIFTminds is why they think music doesn't pay.
Here's a nugget of information. Every time a song is played, money is generated.
@@dsa513 I’m a woman. It depends on which country you’re in. You’ll have to do your own research.
Rick most of the money does not get split between the publishers and writers. Only a small portion goes there. Most of the money goes to the owner of the master recording which is not always the writers and publishers. This is paying the people who put up the money to make the recording not the writers.
For sure. I was surprised Rick got that mixed up (even flat out wrong)
Totally agree. The streaming platforms are mostly working for the big record labels and (sadly) not for the writers. Universal Music even owns a percentage of Spotify. Most of the streaming money is made by the labels and looking at the history of the music-industry, there is no reason to be transparent because it might jeopardize the business. The fact that even people high up in the chain have different answers for a very simple question is saying a lot.
I'd guess label, producer(s), agents(s), writers, interpreter(s). And if it's a collab between artists that have exclusivity with different labels, then some kind of royalty for each. If your band's name or concept is Simon Cowell's then he earns more than any writer just for the name.
The people who own the master recording get paid when someone wants to use a sample. Mechanicals and performance royalties are writer and publisher.
The owners of the master also get paid for synchronization - use in a film, for instance.
I can tell from my own experience (roughly 27 million streams on spotify with my band over the past 7 years) that after all cuts for label, management etc. we probably have enough money to pay some stuff like small video productions, a touring van for a weekend, merch etc. We are talking about less then 10.000$ gross earnings per year through streaming, split on 5 people in the band.
Don't you have to pay income tax on it as well?
Yeah that is absolutely inexcusable. Everyone is enjoying your music, and you aren't being paid for the art. This is just another way the industry is working to lessen the value of the artist. No one pays for music anymore so people think it has no value. Oh I paid 10 bucks to Spotify (or however much it is) so that's enough. I don't need to pay anything more. Meanwhile MILLIONS of people are listening to this stuff and the creators of the content are getting shafted completely.
@@1chiTheKillerhonest question - how is that the industry’s doing? Where we are currently was a direct result of Napster and its clones > most everyone stealing all of their music > the establishment of legit streaming services > pulling teeth just to convince people to pay $10/month, all of which the industry fought against the entire time.
The fact that even the people working in the industry have no clue is telling. Looking forward to hearing more.
its not, since record deals began people have got different payments. its not like everybody used to get the same money for each record, cassette or cd they sold.
As the other commenter noted - it is hard to even estimate because every payment arrangement is different for each writer, producer, and publisher. Then personal agents, managers, publishing agents, the "record labels", and distributers all get a cut of the artists money. It is ridiculous.
Rick doesn't have a clue about why he didn't get paid any royalties for a song he co-wrote. SMH.
Crazy how much things have changed. Back in the very late 90s, I was talking to country artist/songwriter Radney Foster and he said that his mid-level solo hit "Nobody Wins" (one of the most-played recurrent records on country radio) "will put my kids through college." But he also co-wrote an album track on The (Dixie) Chicks' "Fly" record, and that? "Honestly, I never have to work another day in my life if I don't want." The money was in the songwriting.
Back in the day there used to be these big houses built around the Nashville area that were referred to as Elvis houses. They were built by people who managed to get a track on an Elvis Presley album. It didn't even have to be a single - it just had to be a piece of filler that he used to pad out an album.
@@kinseymilkbone yep.
Chris Stapleton i think said one song bought his house.
There’s also that famous Michael Caine quote about Jaws 4:
“I have never seen it but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built and it is terrific.”
The songwriter does make good money *if they retain the publishing rights* . The real big money is in the publishing side, that is why you have seen artists like Bob Dylan sell their "back catalog" of songs for millions in recent years. Just recently Motley Crue sold their entire "catalog" including songs, albums, books, and even "live" performances for a large chunk of change.
Mr. Beato, your videos are informative, to say the least. I am always learning when viewing them.
Rick - I would love it if you could bring on Liberty DeVitto (Billy Joel's long-time drummer and collaborator during the height of his career) for an interview. He was such a great and consistently excellent contributer of great rhythms and drumming on some of the best and most beloved songs of the 20th Century. I'm sure you two would have a very colorful and musical conversation :)
A million sounds like a lot but it takes a billion streams to make it. A million seconds is 12 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. THAT paints an incredible picture.
Just in time for retirement 🎉
@@aussieguru01 lol right!
And if a song is say, 3 minutes and 10 seconds long, that is 3,100 years of listening.
@@reginaldperiwinkle A GREAT song is great forever!
A stream is 30 seconds right?
What I can tell you is that 1 million streams on Spotify is about $3200 for us. The problematic thing with the calculation and why it‘s difficult to give an exact answer is that the money you get paid depends on the territory. There are countries that generate more money per stream than others. It’s indicated by the price of the relative subscription. We publish through CD Baby. I‘ll keep you updated once we hit a billion. Only got to 100x our numbers 😅
I go through CD Baby as well. My revenge each month from Spotify is fairly predictable. I get 10,000 monthly listeners, 20,000 streams, and make about $75. Sometimes more.
Did you have to create an LLC for your band in order to sell merch online?
@@moonstruckmates We have around 10 million streams on Spotify right now
@@hard2c488 No. Although there are clear benefits to it. We are in the process of creating one
@@hard2c488 you can handle the taxes however you want. Talk with a CPA.
It seems like the best thing to do is to simultaneously build a fanbase on a platform like RUclips or maybe TikTok and then use that to drive album sales instead of streams. Because even only selling 1,000 digital albums at $10 each if it’s self-published is probably going to pay out way more than Spotify will for a million streams. Plus you’d get revenue from the RUclips channel you built.
Congrat's on hitting 4 mil sub's, You rock!
My biggest takeaway is that I’m really old and out of touch because Tate McRae has almost 900 million streams and I’ve never heard of her or that song. Now, get off my lawn.
😅😅😅
I haven't heard her song but I would bet you aint missin' anything.
Cue the pump shotgun sounds.
Mid 40's never heard a Taylor Swift song in my life, at least, that I know of. Never once watched an episode of the Kardashians or Survivor.
Never heard her music either, I'd bet a lot of money we're better off not hearing it
My band had one of the big songs of the mid-80's. I won't say the title. We get around 1.5 million streams a month, 38 years after it was released. I'm the only writer and we own the publishing. Our publishing admin company takes 15%. This adds up to somewhere between 150 and 200 thousand dollars a year. Hope that helps.
the 15 % for the publisher ?
is 150k - 200 k
per year ?
What publidhing admin do you use if you don't mind me asking?
Say the song title so you can get more streams!
@@solaris70no, His take is 150-200
@@GucciButNotGuilty It's I can't wait by Nu Shooz
I never miss a Beato post, and 1/2 the time, when he's speaking of a b-minor changed into a c, with a riff like that in a Beethoven sonata etc...I of course agree...to what, I have no clue, but I feel like I'm in the room, and he cares not if I actually know this stuff...he just makes it so damn consumable. Like a great tune!
Nice video set up for your channel, Rick... Looks awesome!
Love your channel Rick and another great post. Congratulation's on getting to 4 million subs.
More videos about the business of music is great!
I would rather more What Makes this Song Great
Yes.
This, it is an issue that needs to be made transparent and straightforward for everybody. Creating music is a talent that brings so much to so many and deserves remuneration.
As always great stuff from Rick. The topic made me think of all the Apple iTunes 🍏 music - both albums and tracks - I bought for 10+ years ago which kind of vanished the day we all converted to Streaming 🤷🏼♂️ I hate the idea of a possesion just disappearing… don’t they owe me something?! 🤔
For all of the people asking about playing on a hit but no writing/publishing credit, you get nothing unless you’re a pro studio cat who is able to include royalties as part of your deal. Even many studio players just make scale and don’t receive royalties even if the song goes big. If you’re in a band concept with a group of friends, make sure you’re all listed as writers.
Rick, this was a truly excellent video on the this topic. I have no idea how any of that works and like yourself I've tried to find it out from people to no avail, and they find it even more confusing than you or I do. Please do follow ups on this topic and let us know what you find.
Great video and great insight Rick. You just got a new subscriber 👍🏼👊🏼👊🏼
Great video, great topic. Respect!
All of the Pro Band Musicians that I know today generally say the same things. "There is no work for Bands and the Music industry is a cut throat business." Thanx Rick for the curious info and You are correct about somebody knows about the money side. It is always "The big secret." 😃
Wow dude! you did it, 4M! Congrats Rick.
Thank you for your videos Rick.... You've interviewed many of my colleagues and long term friends & collaborators.... you do a fantastic job & please keep 'em coming! Regarding this video...my understanding is that the performers get the bulk of the royalties generated ...not the songwriters. If an artist like say Elvis has a billion streams he gets the artist performance royalties for those from the DSP's (through his record co or distributer) and then the songwriters like Leiber & Stoller get the Mechanicals for the streams from the MLC which are usually a lot less as you point out so the performer and songwriters are not getting the same royalties however if they are the same person(s) they get it all! My only problem is I am not close to a billion streams yet.... my hats are off to those that can stream that much!!
Just a suggestion for an interview -- Justin Hayward/Moody Blues. And I still love CDs -- maybe it's the whole package experience that I grew up with LPs.
Love the videos Rick!
All of a sudden the.term Music Industrial Complex just came to mind. Never heard it said before but it seems appropriate.
The MICrophone
Rick great video as always! To clear somethings up in what you said, most of the money made doesn't go the songwriters and publishers. There are 2 copyrights in music itself, one for the Musical Composition (Publishers/Songwriters), and one for the Master Recording (Record Label/Performing Artist). As a general rule of thumb, 80% of the money goes to the master recording copyright holder (Record Label/Performing Artist), and 20% to the copyright holders of the musical composition (Publishers/Songwriters). So that $4000 per million you gave, about $3000 goes to the master recording copyright holder and $1000 goes to the musical composition copyright holder. So let's make a scenario, so let's say I'm an independent DIY performing artist, I had 4 people help me write a song (I didn't write any of it), I record the song they helped me write. The writers had no part in the sound recording, and I didn't have any part of songwriting. I release the song and used Distrokid (which collects the master recording royalties), the song gets 1 million streams, I would get (as the Master recording copyright holder) $3000. The songwriters would get $1000 (as the Musical Composition copyright holder) from the PROs and MLC (if your in the US). The songwriters split it evenly at 25% each, so that means the songwriters got $250 each while me the recording artist (the sound recording copyright holder) got $3000. This is just an over simplified explanation
The second thing, about the not knowing what the streaming platforms pay and why it's so complicated to know exactly is because it's all negotiated. ASCAP, BMI, MLC, Distrokid, Tunecore, UMG, Sony, Warner Bros, Kobalt, United Masters etc... all have their own agreements negotiated with Spotify, Apple Music, RUclips etc. So when you sign up with ASCAP/BMI, you are agreeing to accept whatever they negotiated with the DSPs, same thing with Distrokid/CD Baby/Tunecore whatever they negotiated is what you get. So that's why no one can say exactly what the DSPs pay because it's all different! It's like asking how much rent is? It all depends on the property, location, and what you negotiated with the owner of the property! There is no universal price for renting out an apartment.
Hopefully this clears things up a bit, I'm not even scratching the surface with this stuff
Thank you for being honest, Rick, about the industry and even your own finances, which you are not obligated to divulge to anyone and i applaud your revealing this shady industry!
Someone should get enough VCs going into a new platform that presents new music to hear and view and the writers get fair compensation with no bewildering payment schemes.
I love these videos about the behind the scenes stuff on the industry.
The best way to take advantage of someone is to make your financial relationship with them so complicated they can't figure out what they should receive. What a racket.
And smaller artists don't actually get that %. Stream royalties from smaller artists actually contribute to big artists actually getting paid more for their "hit" songs.
Racket.
"A racket" is a perfectly succinct way to describe it.
@@OMGWTFLOLSMH Yes! A green tennis racket swatting at dollar bills.
That's the way the U.S. Federal Income Tax works, too!
@@arthurdanu1809 At least you know how much you pay, just not what for.
Great topic, love these new info videos.
Thank you for raising this interesting topic. I would say the minimum is around 1800USD for 1mil. streams for all music services annual gross income of the phonogram rights divided by streams, excluding composers and text writers copyrights. The composers and text writers income is extremely country specific. Much more complicated than the phonogram income because of collecting societies lobby power. The phonogram income is also county specific and refers also to the locations where the stream was made and uploaded. We can say that the location based revenue share business model is a partly systematic business model for the phonogram and partly lobby driven business model for the composers and text writers.
Leads me to believe that its convoluted for a reason.
I still buy CDs 😊
Nice, would you like 2 CDs?
Yep same here!
That's right. And you 'own' it. Big difference.
I have never bought so many CDs in my life as I'm doing now... Both new and used...
@@imjustherefortheks A wise move on your part!
Great info, Rick, I have often wondered how the streaming money thing works.
Love your content Rick. Inspiring people of all ages to continue with music
I am grateful for being born in the era of radio and buying vinyl records before the internet.
If I had a vinyl copy of all the music I listen to, there wouldn't be enough room left in my apartment to sit down.
@joeshoe6184 I would need a warehouse to store records if I bought all my favorite songs.
@@catherine6653 for real!
I never really got into vinyl, but I had pretty substantial tape and CD collections back in the days before digital.
@@joeshoe6184 Not true. You would find your vinyl would fit into a 4 x 4 IKEA Kallax. HTH
"What do you call a professional musician without a girlfriend?"
"Homeless."
lol I like that one.
@@romererunamerika9437 That's because it's a classic. Like maybe from Aristotle or Shakespeare? (Hence the quote marks.)
Overheard at an aged woman's funeral: "Hey maaan, sorry about your Mom. So DUDE!, what's your new address?"
Very interesting and open review.. - very much appreciated what you are sharing; Since I am just the "innocent bystander" not in any way in the Music Business - my gut feeling with all this is - I would ask - who is able to achieve 1 billion streams (that are actually long enough to be monetised) ? I guess that's for the already big artists.. - but for an upcoming band or artist?? - and - I remember a video with Steve Vai where he told about his time with Frank Zappa and the greatest advice he got from Frank "Own your publishing!!" .. - you're proving the point here Rick!
Thank you Mr. Beato. This is good information. I have one song on these through Tune Core 50 50 split. Creator and player of guitar and his band doing drums etc. Me playing solo, lead guitar. Last night was a practice disaster on our second one. Some leads I was playing is just not working. Back to the drawing board with a new one here plus fixing that one before release. I am on spotify now, etc. Next is how in the world to get people to see the songs?😮 Hmm. Being listed as Indie Artist etc. Sighhh ... lot of work here.
Meadows of Serenity Artist here.
Omg I've always wondered, thank you for making this video!
In Brazil the musicians get a cut as well from the songs they played. I’m not sure if other countries are like that.
Great video Rick, already making plans for when my big one breaks.
I’m loving your interviews with a great amount of my favourite artists. Thank you 🙏🎵😃
Would love to see you interview the following in particular: Dave Grohl & Jeff Skunk Baxter as well as The Eagles as I’d imagine they’d have some great stories and would to know more about when they had individually worked with Steely Dan. I would love to hear stories from all these guys including yourself
Thank you 😃🎵🙏
They used to put only the name of the actual lyric writer in the writing credits of bands, but that person would make a disproportionate amount of money compared to others. The biggest ethical artists will now put most collaborators they can on songwriting, as it makes them some money on all versions, not just their direct interpretation. Divided by twelve: that’s actually the entire point.
The fact that no one knows for sure is insane. Someone's making out on it, and it's probably not the artists.
it never is
Different platforms, different ads rates.
It is DEFINITELY not the artist.....
It has never been the artists. Just like most business models, really. The people actually making stuff that generates money (be it a physical product, artistry or a service) don't get to share the biggest slice of the cake
@@MisterManuva Yes, that's why I said that.
I asked you about that some time ago and respect for answering that question- I think other asked the same. But what matters is - do you feel better now than before
Snoop Dogg popped up on a short yesterday saying he got a billion streams on spotify and it was less than $45,000.
Anyone who would listen to that garbage needs a full cognitive review.
I think this was contentious as he may have sold the rights to that song, so the 45 was what is left over after that process.
That still too much .
Song writers take a bigger cut than the artists for streaming but that sounds like a really low number. It doesn't say much without knowing his contract etc though.
I made over a million plays on Spotify with my catalog and that payed a little over 4.000 dollars, so that checks out, now I just have to do the same every month 😅
Congratulations anyway!
@@ast4127 thank you friend!
I'm listening to that book right now called "All you need to know about the music business" by Donald Passman and besides the fact that most of the info in there is so complicated and convoluted it makes you want to run away screaming from even trying to write music for a living, the thing he says about streaming, and spotify in particular is that it pays a lot less than you would think because the vast majority of the streams on there are actually coming from free users which means it's paid by ads which is a pittance really. Other service which are premium only may pay better but they're probably having far fewer streams. As it turns out, RUclips is the worst in terms of revenue as very few people pay for youtube and there's a lot of music on here.
And still: the Most important question is ”Do you own the master?”. That’s the big confusion for Rick, and this whole commentary section. If you own the master (= you uploaded the song via an aggregator, or uploaded your song on RUclips) then you’re the master owner = there is money to make. If you’re a writer of a song where a label owns the recording/master = the writers gets to SPLIT a FIFTH of the ”per stream amounts” mentioned in this video. (Via BMI/Ascap). That’s the whole confusion.
Interesting video. You brought up how song writing credits are divided amongst writers in Nashville. How do people who write songs, in general, decide who should get writing credits? I especially wonder about certain bands which may list several of the artists as writers. Seems this might be a grey area in many cases, as to who wrote what and how much. Would love to here you're insight on this.
There is also a difference between countries and currencies. Countries because streaming companies charge various fees for advertisement and subscriptions to streaming platform cost different amounts (in local currency).
Plus , even if you consider US streams only, the amount payed for stream vary. It makas a difference if you are a paying subscriber or if you are campaign subscriber.
So one stream is not always equal to one stream.
This reminds me of the VH1 Behind the Music episode with the group TLC. They asked, how does a group who sells millions of records go bankrupt?
That’s because they didn’t write any of their songs. Babyface who wrote a lot of their stuff made millions
I heard that artist even needs to pay RIAA to get gold/platinum certification.
@stevenponte6655 Exactly. For reference, i watched a french documentary about a tour of old has-been french musicians and singers and in it two artists were very candid about the money they made. One was a guy i have never heard of who was a one hit wonder, he had a disco hit in the late seventies and his song is in english so it was a worldwide hit (Born to be alive). Since he wrote the music, the lyric and he produced it himself, this one song made him rich and he's spending his old days living in a mansion. He does the tour just for the love of performing in front of an audience again. On the other hand, a very popular singer who had several french hit in the 80s, didn't write any of her music nor lyrics and she basically now live just a bit above poverty level. The has-been tour is an opportunity for her to make good money after the success faded away decades ago
In a word: Pebbles. She signed them to a shady deal that kept them in debt. An artist herself, and married to Babyface’s production partner LA Reid, she knew how to take advantage of 3 clueless teenagers.
TLC didn't even own their name. It's as bad a deal as the one the Robinson family done on the original creators and members or the Sugarhill gang to this very day!
Would love to learn how bands usually set up legally as corporations? What if key members get replaced due to quitting, get kicked out, death? Band hires a replacement, is new corporation set up? How are the old members treated with royalties, etc..
Rick, I think it would be very interesting if you did a series on the business of music. Also when doing interviews, it would be interesting if you also asked some business-related questions.
Great atitude from Rick tô open this theme for ALL,there are many with the same doubts
its .004 across the board for everyone on Spotify, goes directly to the person or company who uploads it. After that who knows
The Nashville arrangement is particularly interesting; I think of Jerry Wexler, who got a songwriting cred for Goffin-King's "You Make Me Feel Like A Natural Woman," just for suggesting the title. In Music City, he'd get a full third of the action!
The title is pretty important actually.
@@urbangorilla33 Absolutely
I would reject any song title suggestions, save myself a third of the pie
My take on this is that attorneys are heavily involved and the legal language is so convoluted for a reason. It is for obfuscation so that the publishers rake in more money than is paid to the writers/artists and the writers/artists don't have any clue they are getting screwed over. I dare say that this obfuscation also goes on in the motion picture industry. This is why attorneys that specialize in royalties , whether they focus on the music business or motion pictures, make a LOT of money.
Love this content Rick !!! We have the same problem in Argentina. They pay according to what foot "they" got up from the bed.
This what Im currious about because the next question is how many are "bot" streams and if the streaming services only pay out "authentic" streams and how they differintiate. Playlists stream music 24/7 and how do they pay out royalties for radio play verse streams?
Great question
Reminds me of that line in There Will Be Blood - ''What would you give us for it?''
- ''I don't know''
- ''Something you don't know?''
- ''That's right.''
Reminds me more of the line in terms of the publishers of "I drink your milkshake"
@@Alex-cw3rz That's a good one!
I cannot speak to the music business but can speak about tech startups having started three. Basically the only way developers make any money beyond salary (if the company actually pays this), is if the investors make so much that some of it spills off the table and they don’t notice.
Human nature being what it is, one expects the same in pretty much any industry.
And, before you ask, we never missed a payroll, and everyone made out OK if the company was successful.
Great subject on paying out and I always wonder what about copyrights❤
Rick, my average publishing and mechanical royalty right now from Warner Brothers through BMI is about $1.52 every quarter. And my album was just re-released in Europe, and I got paid $50. I am the writer, I have two musician spots on the record (lead vocals and guitar.) And that’s all I get paid.
That's pretty sad, but it's the whole reason why I never made any effort to become an artist in that way, I always only did it for my own pleasure as a hobby and still do. I always had to have two jobs most of my adulthood. I put two songs out there for people to listen to for free, I never made even one penny for the now over 26000 plays lol and the only place they can be heard is on N1M and people still ask me how they can buy my songs, yet I still don't even know how exactly to do that because life is just busier than the music business and knowing that it barely gets you a loaf of bread once a month, I'd rather put my efforts somewhere else where I get paid better and more responsibly. The music business is such that it turned off and still turns off massive amounts of people we will never hear about because of its complexity and discouraging nature of cut-throat individuals and groups and associations and managers and whatever others who can be added to the list of sharks out there who make it just a shark-tank world. My songs are probably not the best out there, but they do make it to #1 of top plays occasionally and I did it all on my own, writing, composing, playing, recording in my tiny home studio. I still have a couple of songs in the works, but again, life is too busy for me to be able to assign time to it...and no one is going to pay me to do it lol I'll continue to take my chances investing in stocks instead.
Cheers! Just Russ on N1M
Mickey 'D's is hiring
Sounds like my story. 👽✌️
Guess what? most of us are making 0$. Congratulations on your Album
Harsh, but needed to be heard. Too many think a label deal means money. I have so many stories about how this is NOT the case. You’re often better being independent. We need to unite as artists and turn the payout game around ✊🏾✊🏾
Anyone here remember an article in guitar world from the 90s or early 2000s that had a graphic that broke down how much a band would make off of a gold record? It was quite illuminating then, and showed a 4 piece band would only walk away with under 30k. It considered a CD sold at $15 and the 500,000 units sold that made $7.5million. It was and still is unbelievable.
Steve Albini has a great video on YT that breaks this down, too.
I remember it! Pretty obvious why playing live/concerts became the main way to make money
It's so interesting that even music insiders don't know what's what! Amazing.
What makes a song #1 anymore? It used to be either record sales or radio airplay. I don't know what it is now.
In the US it's a mix of sales, streams and airplay, and they change the formula all the time, so no-one really knows.
@alexjenner1108 whatever they can manipulate most is what they prefer. Pay per play is alive better then ever today.
Thank you for "Getting down to Brass Tax". This was quick and informative. So many times people over-explain and loose the audience
"Brass Tacks" to "Brass TAx"...very good!
Gotta love a loose audience.
Great stuff Rick, keep digging please!
Just listened to a great Interview with Rene Meredith from Exploration on this very subject. MCL’s will depend even on what country is listening to the music/watching videos, etc. and add in different pay out schedules. This all makes it very difficult to get a full number, since you may never get paid from certain regions at all even. Time for a reboot, the rules were made in the early days of streaming.
Rick, talk to (a) an accountant for a songwriter who has had a number one hit; (b) the department heads of the accounts payable for the streaming service, or (c) the accounts receivable or accountant dept for the publishing firms / management firms. The people who pay the money, and the people who receive the money as part of their jobs would know. It may be something where you have to get info form both payers and payees; also what financial information is publicly available about the financial activities of these companies? Somewhere, Alphabet / Google has to make a public filing with the gov for RUclips, and there are public shareholder meeting minutes as well, and quarterly reports (if they are public companies.)
People who know the details probably have to abide by an NDA.
Back around 1990 or so I had a temp job at RCA Records, aka Where Careers Go To Die. I was only doing some basic data entry, but I was dying to get into their system to find out some of the real numbers behind the label. The job ended before I could really get into it, though.
You talked about the publishers and writers. Where do the artists come into the equation?
I run a community radio station in New Zealand and we pay royalties to 2 different entities, one is for the use of the recording and one is for the use of the composition (the publishing rights). If the performer hasn't been stiffed by their manager or the record company they'll get some cash from the recording rights. There's no guarantee that they do it the same anywhere else though
artist has to be a writer to get a mechanical royalty payment. It’s why every artist insists on having a writing credit. Although in the old days artists like Sinatra never wrote songs but songwriters would have to hand over 50% of publishing if he recorded their song. Still a good deal
@@strandedinparadise8202how much do you pay? How far is it from .001 - 0.004 per stream?
Good question! I was wondering the same thing.
If the Artist is NOT a writer, they don't get paid for airplay. In the 'old' days. A non writing Artist would make money from mechanicals, the sale of the record/cd/tape. The publishing would got to the writers. The Artist also made decent money on the road.
Now records don't sell much, so no mechanicals. It pays to be a writer, but even now with out hard sales the pay is not as good. For album sales, you as a writer, could have the most mundane 'filler' track, on a record and still make very good money.
It is a tough business, and everyone is willing to sell you short for that extra nickel.
We need an internaional standard for this streaming stuff! I hope music making will pay off for artists again in the future. I just hate how the quality of new music goes downhill because there is no budget anymore for big productions
Would be interesting to hear how much similar hit would have made during the CD period. For artist and for the manufacturing. I bet they all made a lot more. It had to be the perfect business to sell plastic disk for such a high value.
“This would be a great business if it wasn’t for the artists.” -David Geffin.
The powers in the industry is pricing bands out of the business. This needs to change.
Everyone needs to go back to the Chuck Berry system and get the cash up front. Great video Rick.
In India writers get an upfront fee. The big ones get huuuuge amounts. Then anyone can use the song, don’t have to worry about tracking plays and payments.
I once heard CB say he got 1/2 a cent for ever 50c 45rpm sold (1%) and apparently Albert King wanted (and received) $10,000 cash upfront for his session with Gary Moore
Hey Rick, very interesting topic and one I think about a lot as well. I think it's even more complicated than you suggest. For instance, writers don't see much of the streaming royalties at all. I've written songs with millions of streams and I barely see a cent. Instead, it's the master recordings rights holders. For example, for my own productions, I own the masters, and even though I have co-writers, the streaming royalties that are paid from my distributor, go 100% to me. Not my co-writers (unless I decide to split master royalties with them). My assumption was there is a small % of publishing royalties that gets paid out to a PRO... which the writers collect. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong...
Hey, Rick! Streams on Spotify, and Video streams on RUclips primarily pay the rights holder of the work. That is, the person who paid for and owns the sound recording/music video. For major label artists, that's usually their record label (there may be an agreement for the label to pay out a share of that to the artist). For an independent artist who owns their sound recordings/videos (like myself), they will receive all of that income.
There is a miniscule share of streaming revenues that writers/publishers recieve via ASCAP/BMI (or SOCAN for us in Canada).
For a recent release of mine (Wine & Whiskey) I received about $1000 in streaming royalties as the rights owner across all streaming platforms. But as a songwriter/publisher (with a 1/3 share) I've only received only a couple dollars for the performance royalties.
Don Henley and Glen Frey used to purposely add a line or change the arrangement of the other Eagles songs so they could "write a word and gain a third"
It’s actually: Change a word claim a third.
@@stevenponte6655he changed a word 😊
@@hysterics8011 Hahahahaha
@@hysterics8011 gimme a third!! ;)
Jeez, never thought I would hear about Don Henley being a slimeball. /s
I think more money can be made in so many ways these days between social media, RUclips, merch and touring? The outreach is insane. Great time!!! Especially without labels grabbing a bag
How much are you making from those?
All good sources of cash flow minus costs. How much to print 1K t-shirts, mugs, CD?? Revenue from each show? What does it take for each band member including sound,light road crew maybe a driver to get paid $70K with healthcare??? How big and popular? STATE WIDE, tri-state, national. Just what is a reasonable income for a band these days to stay out 250 dates?? If you can even book that many? AND I'm only talking about a cover or tribute band whose music people know and want at their wedding anniversary party??? No original new band I see out doing things
@freddiwilkins9985 don't forget, how much is the venue taking? Probably 25% of your gross merch sales and an even higher percentage of ticket sales.
Yep, the venues and their extortionary take. Band is paying security/cleaning for the venue upfront or thru ticket/merch sales. No way any average big city band makes a living ever and probably never. Without benefactors gotta have a day job live with bandmates or parents, or others. That cuts down on rehearsal time. Ain't no bands doing it today like Lynerd Skynard. Read their story bout making it.
I play in bands with all the headaches and egos and crapp for the love of makin music with my friends and erstwhile enemies to make a bar crowd,wedding,promotion, birthday, bat/barmitzvah, divorce, babyshower,dance sing and have a great time and fun memories 🎶 Now those events and others do pay a band better than a bar. My best was $1K for a Moto Cross event. That one almost paid my rent!!! 6 piece band $1K each!
I'm so glad you did This because I've always been curious about how individuals actually made from views. I'm still unsure.
You should make a playlist of music industry videos. This is important stuff that people don't know much about.
the windows 95 computer tracking all this is the real mvp
And the printouts from the dot matrix printer. (Actually, the U.S. government still publishes its "Confirmation of Traders" report using a dot matrix printer. In 2024.)
one reason nobody agrees on how much people are making from streaming is that the overall picture is that almost nobody is really making good, reliable money from streaming. Even famous people, which is a fraction of a fraction of musicians. Which is depressing and demotivating . So people generally try to not think about it too much and just keep their nose to the grindstone.
I'd like to know more about the financial side. How much does a band /artist make with streams, physical sales, ticket sales, merchandise etc.?
Maybe an idea for future videos?
Spotify will pay different amounts per stream based on different factors. For example premium user streams pay more than free or student license streams. Also Spotify users pay different amounts in different countries. Then the money for the song can be split in a multiple of ways depending on the copyright shares of the song.
For us artists... This kind of stuff is really important. Thank you for covering it and I would say continue talking about the business side more.
There is an argentinian saying "A rio revuelto ganancia de pescadores." A river troubled, gain of fishermen. That means if you don´t know what exactly is going on with your money some one is fishing there.
Well Rick, there is only one way to find out....time to create a banger!
I’d absolutely LOVE to watch you and Jack Stratton of Vulfpeck talk about this and other topics. He recently did a video discussing distribution models and as a fellow writer/producer/performer I think you’d really hit it off!
Rick is overlooking a main factor! The biggest share goes to the label! UMG, Sony, BMG etc.. they earn the most from streaming! The CEO of Universal Music earned more in 2021 than all the sales and streams of UK songwriters combined!
how about CEOs and other execs that still get paid huge money and bonuses, even when their companies do terrible, lose money, layoff people, and even go bankrupt. "Golden Parachutes" pay out ungodly sums. Remember when Michael Eisner (Disney) hired mega-agent Mike Ovitz, and he was a disaster? I think they paid him something like $200MM in a Golden Parachute for 6 months work.
Ok, so why are Major record labels still makeing this kind of money with so many able to be indipendent artists? Do the tech companies manipulate exposure with algorythms. Do they suppress some artists but promote major label artists and dies radio air play still have a mojor effect on the internet? This leads to the question that is posed when it comes to money. Is there still payola going on? 2. Why are the same artists always getting the big exposure? Sick of hearing the same bands and artist all the time. Thats why I go internet to find new artists in the Independent arena.
Catalogue music, thats how record labels make most of the money and then invest back into artists who might never break it even. @@scottmctaggart8171 Most people/passive listeners are happy to listen to the same old songs!