Ranking EVERY Character in Honkai: Star Rail
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- (PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING ANY COMMENTS)
First off, if you’re reading this, thank you for taking the time to do so. I appreciate that you’re willing to hear out my thought process and rationale instead of jumping to (negative) assumptions on my take on your main~. Anyways, it should go without saying that Tier Lists are ENTIRELY subjective and NOT meant to be used as factual information. This is purely for entertainment purposes. That being said, I tried my best to get this peer reviewed by credible names in the HSR theorycrafting community while standing by my own choices based on opinion.
Furthermore, understand that it would be virtually impossible to account for every single nuance, edge case or “what if” scenario when rating a character. Also, I’m fully aware that I may have forgotten or overlooked a scenario that would elevate or undermine a character’s position on the tier list, so if you think I forgot something crucial (that more importantly, is practical and not an extreme edge case) feel free to let me know! That being said, here are some guidelines that I follow:
- Waifu over Meta ALWAYS AND FOREVER
- Tier list is NOT ordered within tiers.
- Tier list grading is based on a spectrum not a hard cutoff. In other words, a character’s placement on a tier isn’t uniform. For example, one character in tier 2 might be very close to tier 1, whereas another character in tier 2 might be very close to tier 3. Therefore if you go “I can’t believe you put X in the same tier as Y”, please keep that in mind.
- Character placements are subject to fluctuate based on current MoC/Pure Fiction/(In the future) Apoc Shadow cycle and their blessings. This tier list will not factor specific cycles and will be based on general usage. Hyper specific situations are disregarded since that can undeservedly skew the practical usefulness of a character in their favor.
- Eidolons are applied on a case by case basis (5 stars will be graded based on E2 maximum - anything higher will be ignored due to being too expensive).
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#HonkaiStarRail #HSR #TierList 
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EDIT: Since I think it's important, this video was recorded on May 4th, right before Robin (and by extension 2.2 came out). I'm aware that break teams are on the rise with Harmony MC.
Check back in a week or two when Boothill comes out and then check back again when Firefly/Jade come out. My thoughts will be in this pinned comment~
Theoretically speaking they are powercreeping all other DPS as well except for Acheron lmao
Goodbye Hook the great helo Kamen Rider Firefly
HARMony Trailblazer being put that low reminds me of Xiangling and Bennett in Genshin's early days
@@paulyvii "put that low" Niche =/= low tier...
@@VarsVerum tbf they're not even niche, HTB works well even if the enemy doesn't have an imaginary weakness
“Imaginary TB is niche”, this statement will not age well.
ITB also brought many characters' value higher such as Gallagher, Xueyi, Misha, Sushang, etc. You can even partner ITB with Ruan Mei for even more insane breaking ability and damage. Those two are basically the Kafka and Black Swan of break
But they are niche. Their niche is break teams and they aren’t really that great outside of break.
HMC should definitely be on excellent on the basis that they literally enable a new kind of team
They are even more essential to break than Kafka is to DoT
@@Luna_CelesKafka is niche in that she's "only usable" in DoT but I doubt anyone is gonna put her in that tier
Niche doesn't mean bad
I love how broken Arlan is, the fact he is stronger than Acheron is just insane! Like wow this security boy is way powerful than an Emanator
Dude does 1million dmg easy, lol acheron doesn’t even compare 😂😂
Acheron? Bleh, Arltillion damage is far superior
Ikr. The best part? He's a four star, and he can out-DPS most of the 5 stars units. How could HSR release such a broken unit?
ikr my arlan does way more than my friends e6 acheron omg
+ the current MoC buff doesn't work with her. Hoyo really hates Acheron...
After 2.2 you can see the real value of Misha. He has the highest toughness break in a single attack with his ultimate and can extend the duration of toughness break with his freeze. He's really made for HMC super break teams.
Specifically against a single target. With multiple mobs that toughness damage ends up splitting hard.
Man you making me wanna build my Misha with that idea.
Same with Xueyi tbh
@@demi-yeethus5440when you make me feel bad after S5 his light cone for xueyi
Time to build me a bellboy
Agreed, let Qingque cook up all the damage and skill points
Well Sparkle kinda helps with that
@@NataliaAgonigiunless you get super unlucky that even the 4 skill points you get from Sparkle doesn’t save you
@@rinrainaozora4254but more of the time she gets four of the kind way before reaching 4 stacks
@brycecai4700 not enough people bring this up
More often than not I get it within 2 skills
@@mornemauvais5873 many times i got it without even consuming skill points lol, just with the turn swiching part
17:08, just so you know. Aventurine does actually have a crit dmg res debuff on his ult. So can compete with Fire mc and Geppie it’s just that his debuff is less accessible
i feel like you have to have a pretty fundamental lack of understanding to get that wrong, plus him not even mentioning that the entire reason fire MC is so good with acheron isn't just the debuff on skill but taunt + trends lc
CDMG res . First time I hear
@@sdfasdfgdfghfghThis, and to be honest I prefer to use Aventurine alongside Acheron than with Fire MC thanks to the extra buffs he gives to allies and since he's such a good shielder he can easily solo sustain any team in any game mode with no issue.
Yeah that was a boop on my part. I realized later (this was recorded I think May 4th or something, right before Robin came out) when I was working on a top five best teams that I misremembered aventurine’s crit damage boost is a debuff on the enemy not a field effect. So aventurine is Acheron’s BIS tank not fire TB
@@VarsIIprobably a mixup with his e1, which does exactly that. there are so many characters in the game now that its almost impossible not to forget about very specific parts of their kits or even more specific interactions between them,
This tier list completely ignores the break team possibilities of HTB making a lot of characters more viable, and bringing Xueyi's stat requirements significantly down.
Even Gallagher value goes up with HTB
Yeah the vid is good if you ignore that part
My man this list was clearly made before 2.2.
I guess he overlooked those teams, however, that only affected like 4 characters
@@Ganobrator doesn't matter, the information needs fact checked.
Looks like someone recorded this before new break meta was a thing.
Not yet ,we have to wait for boothill and sam
Acheron's technique alone makes her worth pulling, the amount of time it saves is just too good, and with trick snacks being basically free you will never enter combat in the open world again (except for formidable foes :/)
Trueeee, I used my acheron that was Level 1 on my level 80 standard enemies
Agreed. I had the easiest time farming chests for e5 HTB. Only took me like 6 hours clearing all of penacony. Without archeron, I would have spent way more time on this.
I probably have saved up hours of my time used by encounters. She’s worth the pull, Just wish I didn’t E2 for atleast 1 Gallagher
i was going to say the same thing!! just breezing through sim universe with her. also insane dmg even withough her LC and with E0 imo.
with the current MoC trend that mobs are getting more aggressive, clara is getting so much more value, example is the current MoC 12
She is the only standard I'm missing and it hurts because her value has skyrocketed.
@@wyattb20 her value has been increasing since pure fiction, also i took her over bronya at my 300 and never regretted that decision xD i have enough speed and decent relics to not rely on turn advance anyways. small builds flex at enka network 700336217 :D
Yeah like using her against Kafka this moc was really good because of how aggressive she is alongside the adds
Clara vs that other Penacony DOT robot or whatever it’s called does not go well though. Big rip. (The one with that cup)
She doesn't get triggered by the stupid debuff robots... (WHY)
Silver wolf in the same tier as Asta is just disrespectful.
HTB can turn basically any character into a break DPS. Yes, it works best on characters with high toughness dmg (Asta, Misha, Welt), but you can compensate with Ruan Mei. Super Break is nuts, it's a bit like hyperbloom, requiring building the right stats on the team & committing hard, but has a naturally high damage floor if you can pull it off.
And Sushang is great in break teams, her kit revolves around being a break DPS & she's physical, which (along with fire) has the highest break multiplier of the elements. With HTB, she's really good now.
i think u mean misha, not mika but i agree!!
@@pchs I didn’t notice that, thanks!
The break multiplier from elemental types doesn't apply to Super Break
@@mastanvx I know, but it still gives an edge in break damage.
if only sampo was not a dot unit he'd also be a broken break dps
Feel like you're underselling H!MC a lot. They're not in anyway at the same level as the other top Harmonies, but they allow characters like Sushang, Misha, Xueyi to be more than decent and allows Himeko to exist outside PF.
They're tailor made for Break, but even without swapping all your DPSes relics to break, it's just a straight up from a very decent to good additional damage source.
Worst take, among many rather good takes, is that Topaz is niche tier only because she is a playstyle enabler for follow up teams, like kafka is for DoT teams, her value goes up the same way that kafka does when a character that supports that archetype is released.Therefore logic dictates that if Kafka is excellent so is Topaz.
Kafka can work well in a team without DoTs. Topaz... can somewhat work. Topaz is worse, but definitely isnt that low. Though unlike what most people say, she doesnt work that well with clara.
@@kuratse205 Most bias take I have ever seen saying kafka can work without DOT but topaz can’t work without FuA TM? You do realize kafka was B-tier before black swans release right? Remove DOT and kafka is horrible this shouldn’t be a debate
@@zerovking7629 I dont know what nonsense tier list you listen to, but both without their respective DoT/FUA teams are terrible. They both can work in hypercarry, but topaz is just objectively worse. Topaz is a ST FUA amper. Kafka is a AOE DoT proccer. In HSR, ST is worse than AOE, and topaz only has her own FUAs to amp in hypercarry, while Kafka can use weakness break and talent application for DoTs to proc.
In my experience, my super high investment Topaz is similar in effectiveness as a mid investment pure DoT kafka (no crit) on my friends list, as hypercarry with e6s5resolution 174spd pela, e2s1 167spd 210crtdmg sparkle, and e0 fu xuan.
I rigged it in topaz's favour, with the kafka being unable to crit while my topaz has 80/300crit
Maybe but topaz really needs e1s1 while kafka doesn't necessarily
Topaz is not nearly as good as Kafka though. Both on their own or at what they enable.
You can run a FUA team without Topaz because Topaz doesnt do anything specifically amazing to enable the team, she's just good at being a part of a FUA team unless you have her E1 or S1.
Kafka on the other the other hand enables DOT, explodes them faster & ramps up the damage.
Anyone would run a FUA team without Topaz, but no one is gonna run a DOT team without Kafka unless its a Black Swan team & they dont have Kafka (but thats copium, everyone would want Kafka even with BS)
umm weakness implant is not the only thing silverwolf does ......
what about the 45% def down for 3 turns (dont know the exact number) , all type res pen , the speed attack and def bugs
the debuff application and amount of debuffs is out of the world too
excellent tier imo
I agree so fucking hard with this, for whatever reason people have only been seeing her as weakness implant and underrate her significantly. 45% def shred on ult, 10% all-type res shred, 10% atk decrease, 8% def shred on talent, 6% speed shred. Even pela at e6 doesn't come close to the sheer utility and debuffing of sw.
As a person that has been using Misha as my sub-dps in my general team since he came out... yes as a Misha "main" we exist.
Misha mains may exist. But Misha no longer exists lol
Misha...my baby 😭😭
same here
24:20 If Jingliu is SP positive, you’re doing something horrible wrong.
Yeah exactly lol
Naaaahhhhh, Pitch-Dark Hook the Great slander is crazy. She's like a Destruction version of Serval, she can spam her ult alot through out the fight especially at e4
fr she's really not that bad
Nobody uses her that’s the reason
No amount of copium is going to make her worth using
She is not that bad. It’s just… she’s kind of outclassed by other characters in what she does….
She has low dmg, bad/mid eidolons, and is also in a weird state where she has both DoT and hypercarry elements especially since she is ST most of the time and only has her enhanced skill like I believe after she ults is not good if you have low dmg you make up in AoE but she doesn't
The safest unit u can pull are actually harmony units and a sustainer, any dps or dmg dealer can be powercrept easily after a few patch😢
aventurine DOES have debuff, on his ultimate !!
Doesn't his follow-up have a debuff too? Cuz I borrowed my hsr friend's Aventurine and his follow-up adds stack on my Acheron's ult.
@@vanskadooshi think thats from his lightcone?
@@Nexhem Oh, my bad.
@@vanskadoosh lc :)
Also on his normal attack if you can get him to E2.
Video Idea: Top 5 Best HSR Light Cones in terms of the artwork on the cones and not gameplay
Acheron’s lightcone looks awesome, but aventurine’s is definitely going first.
I’m saying this with a pfp of his lightcone.
cogs
For me, I prefer Past Self in Mirror, She Already Shut Her Eyes and Inherently Unjust Destiny are the most aesthetically pleasing lightcone
Jing yuans lightcone literally works on every character the buffs are so universal and straight forward plus it has good art
Jing Liu lightcone, not the one we have but the unused one.
Hominahominahominahomina
Small correction, Aventurine can in fact debuff an enemy via his ultimate and make them receive more Crit DMG, so he is good to be paired with Acheron.
I wouldn’t say that HTB is niche since they can allow anyone to deal great damage just by building Break Effect.
I think Acheron should definitely be in a higher tier. With the proper investment, she can pretty much bypass her need for her LC and even her talent which implores her to be paired with other Nihility characters. I, for one, didn’t pull for Acheron’s LC yet she’s still reaching at least 100,000 DMG per ultimate and 30,000 per skill even with a nonS5 LC.
1. Your acheron is just not great. I'm sorry, but she should be hitting much much higher than that even without her lc
2. Regardless I still agree with the decision of not putting acheron in top teir
@@sageofsixpaths8392 Still, reaching at least 6 digits per ultimate and without other Nihility teammates, her signature LC, and Eidolons isn’t really something to sleep on.
Tbh I'd put acheron in top-tier just for her technique
100k ult and 30k skill is kinda low, i have E0S0 Acheron and her ult does 300k on single and 600k if there's multiple, and for skill its between 75-90k (she has perfect relic though).
the the only reason i pulled her because her tech, but yeah i agree with everyone saying Acheron is suck without her signature, the difference like heaven and earth and i experience that myself.
@RonieTheddy03 Nobody's saying she's bad, she literally the best dps in the game with decent investment but the damage your doing is nowhere near her true capabilities 100k isn't impressive from a dps anymore my seele can hit 220k on a single target. And if you for some reason are playing e0 acheron without other nihility then you should also be using characters like sparkle, ruan mei, robin, bronya etc to mega buff her and still do crazy damage
Calling Silver Wolf niche is insane slander.
Even if she doesn't inflict the weakness you want, she has more Def shred and debuffs than Pela.
While Pela has AoE, that's not enough of a game changer that they would be in different tiers. Especially considering how much stronger SW is for 1-2 targets.
FR, flexibility should be considered when making a tier like this. Why would you put SW in niche but JY in excellent?? 😭😭
@minako-chan1420 exactly. His justification for SW doesn't even make sense.
And JY being a tier OVER Seele? Nah chief. Same tier? Sure, arguable.
His recent HSR takes have been awful. 😭
@@xanaviii yes I think he's really powercrept by other damage dealers too. He can only deal tons of damage when you have his LC. Plus, his follow up attack, you couldn't manipulate the Lightning Lord's speed and the fact that it could only be used once every cycle, it just sucks 😭 (Even if you build him with crit rate above 60%, if your lightning lord doesn't crit, your entire cycle would just go in vain, that's such a major downside for him) 😭
@@xanaviii even in pure fiction, Jing Yuan is being outdone by Herta (a 4* unit!!! Even Himeko who's only a standard 5*) 😭
I really love Jing Yuan but he's really just not in the current meta rn 😭
Herta and Erudition units aren't just only useful for Pure Fiction and useless everywhere else. 90% of the content in this game for most people is farming Calyxes. They are the best and fastest unit for this purpose.
True
100% agreed. We have to remember Simulated Universe exists, and while it doesn't get updated nearly as often as MoC or PF, when it does get updated it has some of the hardest content by that point. And given the customization of that mode, you can get pretty much anyone in the game up to optimal levels of play, which is great for characters whose full potential is usually locked behind their AOE range
And what's funny is Herta is great in Gold and Gears because all the possible end bosses both summon lots of minions AND have innate ice weaknesses. It is the perfect mode for her, really
Who needs Erudition units for Calyxes when you can just use an E6S5 Acheron friend that deals 2 million damage
@@paulyvii because it's far slower. you still need to charge up the ult and the ult animation is like half an hour long.
@@paulyvii By the time Acheron gets her Ult, Herta and Himeko would have gone to the next round. Then there is also Argenti who can spam Ult. Heck even Seele is Faster than her in Farming.
Pretty much agree, except for a few bits.
First, the part where you said Herta is "virtually unusable outside of [pure fiction]" is just wrong. She's very usable, especially in Simulated Universe and even in MoC. Her issue is the same as Argenti, though, in that she really wants good match ups like, say, the Deer, Team Leader, some variations of the Swarm. I don't necessarily disagree with the tier placement since Herta is a unit whose shine depends on the game mode you throw her in, but "virtually unusable" is just untrue.
Pela in high tier and Silver Wolf in niche doesn't make sense. With the exception of AOE Silver Wolf is literally a "anything you can do, I can do better" character to Pela. Silver Wolf's def shred is stronger, Pela needs E4 to reduce ice resistance whereas Silver Wolf can just thanos snap away elemental resistance (even if it is a random element), and Pela needs a LC to debuff with normal attacks, whereas Silver Wolf's talent means she's always applying debuffs. This last bit is important to hammer home, because the Pearls of Sweat LC doesn't give Acheron stacks if you reapply its debuff, but Silver Wolf's bugs always do. The only areas Pela beats Silver Wolf in is an AOE ult and accessibility. Otherwise, Silver Wolf's better. Not so much better that they should be different tiers, but I do think they should be the same.
And lastly, for those who read far enough, congrats! You found the one person who has built and played Misha! I like him, he is good, and you can get a lot out of him. But at the end of the day he is a 4 star damage dealer. Maybe if the break meta becomes a real thing he'll have a place since a 10x bounce will eat through toughness like it's nothing, but he has the same problem as Hook where the kit is good but not unique. Meaning if you play for fun he'll be a great unit, but if you play for meta he doesn't offer anything that can't be given to you by another character except the 10x ultimate bounce and defense shred at E2. Like I said I like him, he's fun, and I've cleared MoC with him, but I'm not gonna come out here and say "such an under rated character!" (even if he technically is since no one is giving him any credit when he deserves *at least* a little)
Edit: I wrote this comment before building Harmony Trailblazer, and after a bit of casual testing I can say confidently that Misha is really good with HTB. I used them both on the second half of MoC 10 against True Sting with Herta and Aventurine. Not really a recommended team as it's pretty SP negative and I would have liked to do floor 11 or 12 but neither of them recommend Ice right now. But regardless, Misha can be used pretty effectively if you know what you're doing
While i agree with a lot of silver wolf's points, aoe is very important right now. Most of the time you're fighting 2 big bosses. Pela's 40% def shred on both of them is better than sw's 45% def shred only on 1 enemy.
@@kazekori9593 I can agree with that. As I said her ultimate AOE is one thing she has over SW. I'm just saying they should be in the same tier, because sometimes you really need that AOE and sometimes you don't. Sometimes you need the more consistent stacking for Acheron and sometimes you don't. My only real disagreement is that I think they should be in the same tier
HWAAA FELLOW MISHA USER!! i love him so much hes my little baby idc if he doesnt hold up to other i will always have him in my team!!
@@mfz8580 Based
@@kazekori9593 to be fair counting the bugs its actually 53% def shred on silver wolf, let alone some additional speed and attack debuffs, and the ability to res shred any element. Her ult is also relatively easy to generate especially if you have tutorial on her or especially E1(if you wanna whale a little more). i think its fair to say she's "at least" at pela tier and not 2 whole tiers lower
if I'm fighting constant mob waves or somehow 3 bosses i would take pela, otherwise in almost every other scenario especially 1/2 boss battles ill take silverwolf
I unironically built Misha, and I really like using his ultimate and see them shred through a boss’s toughness bar. But yeah his placement in the tier list.
I also heard people make Misha a Welt sustain at home. So he’s either Jingliu at home, or Welt Sustain at home.
I pretty much agree with the majority of the statements in this video, but I would like to mention that Aventurine isn't downgraded compared to Fu Xuan in everything that isn't FUA teams.
He provides a debuff on his ultimate that also provides crit dmg, he has big fat shields that get replenished often due to his follow up, he can tear down imaginary weaknesses fairly easily while also helping with the overall damage of the team, he gives 50% Effect Res (which when faced against many debuffs, specially if they happen in a row, is better than 1 secured prevention against 1 debuff), he practically doesn't need to use his basic skill, and then if we talk about higher investment his LC provides another debuff, more dmg for him and even greater shields while his E1 provides even more Crit Dmg and big shield on Ultimate and E2 provides another debuff and overall more damage to the team.
I won't deny that Fu Xuan is an incredible preservation unit and that also it all comes down to preferences/taste, but with that in consideration, I wouldn't say that she is the best preservation or that she is better than him except in one case, but rather, they are pretty much on par on average which isn't really a bad thing at all.
Aventurine does have a debuff- with his ultimate.
I wouldn't be mad about Acheron, but the fact that you have no dps in top tier, and you refuse to put one there is just stupid.
Like only utility units could carry you through the game. At least one dps is a must pull.
Was thinking lf the same thing. Like you can have the best supporting cast, but without a very good dps these will fall short. If this was a versatility tier list i'd get it, but it aint.
If i may, i say acheron, DHIL, and Jingliu should be there at least. (Well boothill and firefly too but we'll see).
I don't know when this was recorded but the lack of taking harmony trailblazer into account makes it already dated
Doesn't matter, all these characters will be power crept soon anyway. If you care about tier list or meta don't pull anything for the next 2 years, all the chars you have now gonna be useless
Fu xuan best sustain, said pela and silver wolf arent equal, forgot that aventurine has a crit dmg increase debuff, hmc not top tier, Please never cook again
Really nice to see a tierlist from you!!
as a sushang main, with the right build and supports she can be a MONSTER! throw her with harmony TB and ruan mei, and couple that with the fact we're getting a hunt gamemode and more break relics soon, she's gonna hit her full potential soon!
Vars video yaaaay
can't wait to see xueyi in the niche tier and even though she's 1 of my favorite dps in the game I hope she gets some love from vars
28:44 hi, misha main here! went out of my way to pull for him on ildh's banner in 2.0 because i needed an ice character and immediately built him
i guess i did do "significant investment" in the sense that i gave him the 5* simuni lc and decent relics, but he does nice damage on his own that only increases when being paired with the crazy supports in this game (he hit 600k the other day w ruan mei)
overall he's amazing for freeze, esp in simuni remembrance runs, and super fun with his weakness break
same, went out of my way to get his eidolons lmao.
If there is a character i might say could get a chance to be in top tier as dps... Maybe its kafka since unlike other character who will get downgrade soon, she can and will get stronger as more dot team releases her kit literally revolves around devouring other dot dmg dealers and using them as pedestral to come out on top which other character might never have, she is just representative of nihility at this point💀
Now harmony TB is "niche" the same way nilou is "niche"
14:22 For SP, I think you could categories it as
SP positive - units with net positive SP generation(i.e Ruan Mei, Fu Xuan),
SP Negative - units with net negative SP (i.e imbibitor lunae, Jing Yuan, Blade) and
SP Neutral - units that alternates between skills and basic attacks (i.e Serval).
I would bump Guinaifen to decent. She's not restricted to DoT like Luka and Sampo. She can work on any team because of her debuffs like Acheron and Dr. Ratio team
I agree, her Damage ceiling is also higher than Sampo and Luka's and Fire has the Highest Break Effect Multiplier... plus, I think she's the best Fire Character in the game??? Fire is just in a really bad place, along with Wind... having only 1 or 2 even notable characters. Topaz is... Nice? But I think Topaz is even more Niche than Guinaifen. The fact that she needs A LOT of follow up attacks to do any Major damage hurts her viability down to... 3 teams ish? Clara, Jing Yuan and Dr. Ratio, but she is like Kafka in the fact that the more Follow Up Units come out, the more powerful she becomes.
All in all, I think Guinaifen has the Top spot for any Fire Character... (Before Firefly).
I've been a Clara main since 1.0, ever since she popped out of the Departure Warp, but I must say that I agree with your "Decent" ranking of her.
Clara can be strong, but her over-reliance on enemy actions to even use her FuA is her Achilles' Heel. No other DPS has such caveat, because none of them depend so much on the enemies to use their gimmick. It kinda requires her to team up with someone who can help her with maintaining a high aggro on herself. It also wants her team to avoid CC'ing the enemies, as CC'd enemies can't act or have their action delayed, which can affect Clara using her counterattacks.
but Clara can get ridiculous amounts of value. On PF, she works ridiculously well and can act as a subdps and lets you bring ST dps units to PF. Also, certain enemies play really well into clara's kit, like boss Argenti, that one luofu enemy with two fans, the aoe fire goldfish, and basically all aoe enemy atks.
I even find her to be way more useful than my Jing Liu in both MoC and PF (Jingliu has 2.5k atk, 161spd, 35/220 crit, dmg% orb). JingLiu may be good for new players and low investment, but Clara just outperforms her in almost all situations.
@kuratse205 The issue isn't about Clara's performance, but about the innate design of her kit. Just because she can do all those things, it doesn't change the fact that she NEEDS the enemies to attack, just to even use her FuA. If they can't/don't, for whatever reason, then no FuA from her, period. And we're already seeing a hint of that, from the Penacony debuff robots. What if the devs release a boss that just throws bunch of debuffs and DoT's on our teams, but never actually attacks? Clara would be a dead weight then.
@@venn2001ad What you are doing is like saying "If there is a boss that can ignore ult dmg, then archeron would be dead weight".
Like, no. The design of clara's atk on hit is really good game design. It's a dmg type, just like DoT and break dmg. Just like how DoT needs the enemies to take their turns, or how break needs to do toughness dmg and broken state, atk on hit needs enemies to hit.
Clara has a ridiculously high dmg ceiling and can reach that against enemies that play into her niche. Just because a character is unable to be used in every situation ever, doesnt make them worse. It just makes the game better, because there are more ways to play and more diversity in character usage.
Look at warframe for example. That game always gets new updates where the new content just completely nullify old frames' abilities. The problem isnt that the old frames did X. It's that the new content completely nullified X.
@kuratse205 Still doesn't change the fact that it's her Achilles' Heel.
Does it make her unique and different, like you said? Sure it does. But that doesn't make it necessarily a positive thing, when her overall performance can be quite inconsistent, at the whims of the RNG.
And no, it's not quite the same as DoT's. DoT's don't care what the enemies do, as long as they're applied. As long as the enemies get their turns, they'll procc and ALWAYS do their thing. And unless you CC the heck out the enemies, they WILL get their turns. However, for Clara, you need the enemies to act AND target her, for her to trigger her FuA. What if the enemies get their turns, but decide to buff up instead? Still no counterattacks then. It just creates an extra hoop that other DPS characters don't have to put up with, but she does.
So having such high ceiling doesn't mean much, when you can't even reliably get to it, depending on circumstances. Even when you fight the exact same enemies again, things can swing differently, based on RNG.
@@venn2001ad I'm comparing "atk on hit" to "break dmg" and "DoT" as dmg types. All three are dmg types with their own ups and downs. You cant just create the worst possible hypothetical scenario for a dmg type and then call it bad.
It's like asking a pure break dmg dps to do dmg to a target that cant get weakness broken state, and then labelling it as bad.
Like, no sh*t sherlock. Each dmg type have their own use cases where they are good, and cases where they are bad. It's called tradeoffs and niches.
In this case, clara gains a super high dmg ceiling in exchange for some rng and some dependence on enemy types.
14:26 that a good note for what you mean by SP positive. Nice to clarify
Regarding Tingyun, if we are playing with the Phantilya possesed Tg, remember she it's a follower of the destruction path, and destruction has the second highest agro in the game after preservation characters!
I used Hook in the early game 😭 her play style is very fun and she gets a lot out of burning enemies
Rise up Hook players she was low-key always so slept on and she was a staple of my team up until I got black swan hah
Ngl Yukong is just like Mona, insane buffs that are exclusively used for RUclips damage showcases
In regards to your point on QQ, when you mentioned IL practically requires Sparkle, I would argue a similar mentality with QQ. She is ok without sparkle, but with sparkle she really takes off. That is key to making the RNG very strong in your favor. I cant remember last time ever failed her RNG due to Sparkle constantly feeding her the SP she needs. As long as you have that combo and know how to play them (not using QQ ult immediately for example), she sky rockets in consistency and damage
Silver Wolf and pela should be in the same tier or arguably higher because she does everything that pela does but better, except aoe and impair
I mostly agree with everything except argenti, he does not belong to the same tier as dan heng and jingliu
I do have one argument for xueyi, harmony trailblazer.
Acheron is restricted to 2 nihility and a sustain unless you are crazy or have really tough characters in pure fiction.
Xueyi ultimate now due to trailblazer has gone from an ultimate thats good at breaking to suddenly an amazing hyberbreak nuke, and extremely versatile
Im considering running her with Harm TB, Luocha, and silverwolf for a 2 element break team
I really love the newest break relic . Now Xueyi have no problem with crit stat
idk what it is about this specific video, (maybe the fact that it wasn't too scripted) but I loved every minute of it, it felt more genuine than usual like i was talking to a friend or something haha idk if that sounds cheesy. But great concept and loved it, I hope you'll make updates in the future after a long time has passed ^^
Weird to put Topaz so low. Only someone who doesn't understand how she plays would rate her that low. Very good video other than that tho.
Exactly, damage dealers are meant to become obsolete in future. Everyone went nuts over dhil damage because he does 1000% more damage seele can do in a cycle, everybody went nuts over jingliu damage because she can surpass dhil in some situations.
Even now, it's the same situation, Acheron can do more than a million damage in a cycle, which is outstanding, to say the very least, but what's stopping hoyo to make another character do more than 3 million damage in a cycle? This is why tierlists based on damage dealers will never almost make any sense. Their value will forever depend on how well they can use the new shiny support.
Oh so thats why you put that post earlier about why tierlists are so controversial. Well this one in particular seems fine and it has credibility due to this being made by a regular and active player who also makes guides and in depth analyses on characters. :D
i would argue that Bronya actually works quite well in DoT teams if you don’t have Ruan Mei or Robin. action advance benefits DoT users because it allows them to use their skill or basic again and apply (or trigger, in the case of Kafka) more stacks of DoT, which also gives them more energy to give even more stacks of DoT. if you’re running Sampo and/or Black Swan in DoT, Bronya can make good use of Penacony planar set and Planetary Rendezvous for a DMG percent buff, especially if you’re running HuoHuo as a sustain. but you can also run the Dance Dance Dance light cone to advance all allies, and make up for the Crit DMG buff being useless.
so she’s not optimal for DoT but still slots well into certain DoT comps if you don’t have other options
Around 1720ish you indicated Aventurine doesn't have a debuff, however I think it's worth noting if you got his signature weapon his follow up actually inflicts vulnerability which does tick Acherons counter. His ultimate also inflicts a debuff called Unnerved which ticks acherons counter, so while it's true fire tbs is more reliable due to it being a skill, Aventurine does have 1-2 debuff sources.
Misha got his niche in Simulated Universe if you need to clear a run in Swarm disaster or Gold and Gears using Remembrance Path.
He is able to freeze very often, if in the future new units come out Increasing damage to Frozen targets as their core playstyles he can become a great sub/main dps.
i do not agress with the niche category. becouse in your point of view everyting that is not a crit damage build is niche. so dot is niche, break build niche. like you dont have that many ways to deal damage in the game and build a character, robin is not universalm sparke basicly only buffs crit builds? why the fuck i would use sparke in a kafka team?
I guess this isn't so much talking about a Kafka team. You're right, Sparkle doesn't fit into a Kafka team. But presumably, the target audience doesn't have every character, so they likely can't build that sort of team. If they pull a piece of that team, they could probably force them into a crit build with Sparkle and still get good value, but they couldn't make a proper dot team without more synergies.
Great video. I just have some things I want to share: (1) I absolutely love using March. Waifu over meta first. But also, she’s good in Topaz teams as well as having the AOE freeze thing. I will accept though that she’s a duel scaler with her shield scaling of defence, and her follow-ups scaling off her attack. It’s really annoying. Probably not far off benching her unless they give her the Dan Heng treatment. But that has more to do with how many characters I have more than her meta value. I still love her to bits. Top 5 waifu easily. (2) I was mad enough to build Arlan because I liked him and it enabled me to use the very useful mono lightning team, before I got Kafka. But now he is thoroughly benched. He should’ve been a hunt unit. (3) I feel like Serval is seriously underrated. (4) I haven’t built my Aventurine yet so I can’t do this, but has anyone considered putting him and Qungque together. I think just putting those gamblers in a teams up together would be hilarious. (5) Himeko was my first five star, followed by Bronya and Silver Wolf and I’m very happy about that.
Please keep up the great work.
Also when is your next Star Rail why everyone/no one plays coming out?
Regardin Tingyun:
In one of te first patch for the game I recall reading that coders wronly gave her a much higher "taunt value" that she sould have had and that was removed, but seeing she keeps getting attacked I can only think that the reason for that is that Tingyun is treated as a Destruction unit (which have a higher taunt value than Hamony units) because of her part in the story, basically making her taunt value a temathic gameplay addition.
Misha is actually quite good for a 4* Destruction Unit. His Ult can cone in clutch with it's freezes and he oblierates toughness bars with it
u said many times that aventurine doesnt have a debuff but doesnt he have one in his ult and (if u have his light cone) in his follow up attack
I love your content. I get some valuable information while watching a well created entertainment script.
I never understand why so many people argue with its own ilk just to use an opinion as fact. Like you said in the description, it’s about entertainment and not to be used as a hard cut information on “meta”.
Also i agree with you on Waifu over meta 👍. I wish the majority of the fans would learn to just like the characters then spit venom on ones character because meta mentality. No wonder these type of game are so successful within it’s targeted audiences.
I agree with most. I honestly don't know how I'd do a hsr tier list, everyone keeps getting better and better, I feel the top tiers would get diluted. One thing I'd say though is that I would swap blade and jing yuan around. I find blade to be more comfy and stronger than jing yuan, as jing yuans damage can get wasted alot if you're not fighting a mob of enemies.
Also on the topic of dps, i think you should include some in tip tier. Makes it clear which dps is most valued at the moment, as we all know dps can get powercrept easily
Misha's strengths according to a Misha main (me):
- Good single target damage with ult.
- Works well in duel DPS scenarios, namely IB Dan Heng and Qingque
- Very good in Rememberence Teams
That's about it, I personally think he is fun.
Yangking is so goated, single target king only got power crept by bootking
Ratio follow ups does like yanqing ults
@@austinadvincula4410and ratio was free
@@austinadvincula4410put pioneer's set on yanqing along with his bis team
Yanqing, Black Swan(or any other debuffer), Aventurine, Ruanmei
With this build he actually outperforms my Jingliu who I invested more into
I really like Seele and want to use her since she is still my only quantum dps but I feel like my skill level, roster, and build are simply not enough for her to clear some of the harder contents like MoC or PF. Honestly I really envy those who found success with her.
She really wants high investment with her relics, and needs a good team. I got her at launch and gradually stopped using her. It felt like she fell off but then recently started farming for her again and now I can see her damage is still excellent. Top 3 or maybe top 4 dps imo but yeah she isn’t as easy to get great as others.
Misha player (and Clara Main) here, Misha is a more accessible version of Jing Yuan but with less damage than him, their mechanics work very similarly but I can say that Misha is turbo broken in SU if that counts for anything because he can constantly freeze enemies with a very low cost Ultimate that AOE Freezes (like March but it actually does damage), I agree with the Average tier
probably should add Eidolon 0 only in the title
"Eidolons are applied on a case by case basis (5 stars will be graded based on E2 maximum - anything higher will be ignored due to being too expensive"
...what ? then Acheron would go straight up to must pull, her E2 is the one that will help her the most
I think that, because we have good break supports, Sushang has more options than base Dan heng (HTB and Ruan Mei) and has a good 5* lightcone in Seele's signature thanks to her talent which she can max it's effect with less investment than Dan Heng, especially at E6. So I think you can keep her in average. Also her turn "refresh" is not gated behind an eidolon
One very important thing to note about Jingyuan: Lightning Lord deals 15 points of toughness damage per hit, coming out to 150 toughness damage at max stacks. This means that Jingyuan technically has the highest highest toughness damage out of any single attack in the game, beating out Xueyi’s ult by 30 points. All of this means he is a surprisingly powerful break DPS, easily hitting over 30,000 super break damage on my very poorly optimized build.
IF you can do it anyway.
@@No-Ink it’s not that difficult if you have dance dance dance on trailblazer, or high speed on Jingyuan, especially since he wants 145 speed anyway of you’re speccing him into break effect.
While not one attack since Gallagher's ult come with 100% action advancement into a enhanced basic it might as well be 1 combo which does 150 toughness damage and you can make sure its consistent one enemy in a boss fight with a lot of ads nad his healing gains bonus based on break effect so he's likely already building that stat anyway
Do you think a 2-d tier list would be more useful. in the damage dealer / specialist / amplifier / sustain way that another particular guide does?
It's so absurd how good Pela is for being a launch 4-star when two of her traces and last Eidolen don't do that much for her (personal damage buffs on a debuff unit).
huohuo and fu xuan also have revives at e2 with great e1's so getting eidolons on those two over time will make sure they stay staple supports for a very long time.
aven's future growth is majorly for fua i feel like. there is no way he will be the only limited shielder in the next year, and i don't think they'd release a 2nd fua shielder.
Misha's functionality, for me, is his freeze. I don't have good tanks, so I have used him to help with safer 'Starcrusher Swarm King' farm and the 3x 'Lordy Trashcan' encounter. (Also mine has 2,7K ATK 54%/152% Crit R/D. Hits better than my current poor Acheron :D)
But yee, I want to like him, but he isn't spectacular. Tho he has been more useful that Xueyi, someone who I also tried to make work. (Tho, reading comments, maybe my boi is more goated than I thought, I will need to experiment with Harmony TB more)
Thanks for telling about how tough Acheron is to pull off, I have been slowly building her after half-accidentally pulling her. Maybe I will just stick to my E0 Kafka and E1 BlackSwan till the universe's heat-death, it is just getting bit samey using same team (if only I had managed to get Aventurine for my Topaz. . .)
but Aventurine does have debuffs...
Misha has the highest Super Break damage potental with his max stacked ultimate due to scaling with toughness damage directly multiplying it.
To me it seems like you have a personal vendetta against certain chars so you just pot them lower than they should be. Seele for example is still a top tier dps, Welt is nowhere near as useless as you painted him here, etc.
Welt is awesome at debuffing and sort of acts like a Preservation by manipulating the turns and stopping enemies from acting. He may not be top top tier, but he’s still awesome
Yeah seele and clara are on average better than Jing Yuan, and sometimes better than Jing Liu. I dont even know why Jing Yuan is higher than Seele and Clara.
Vars seems to have the most misconceptions about how Seele works, most of his points in his Seele vid are just flat out wrong
29:00 i think the only person i know of who might’ve built Misha unironically is Rednasyo he absolutely loves him for some reason lmao
Things I liked about this tierlist:
The ranking criteria is pretty good and I also can agree with most of the ranking except few of them.
Things I find wrong:
Silverwolf ranking at niche don't make any sense she is literally what you can call can be usable in every team after release of acheron and HMC her value is at all time higher.
Xueyi:
She is not average she is a pretty good niche character very strong against quantum weak enemy and now after HMC release I can also put her at excellent if you have her e6.
Blade:
I personally experienced it that blade does more damage than jingyuan in most of the scenarios so putting blade at descent does not make sense to me. You should put both of them at excellent or both of them at descent tier.
Tingyun might have the taunt value of a destruction character because of her connection to Phantylia (emanator of destruction)
Got Bronya early, but gave her a pass until I looked into assessments of the standard crewe. Creeping up on the standard selector, I got to wondering if I go for either the as-yet unobtained characters or Bronya's E1, only to lose to that E1, freeing me up to err toward Himeko over Bailu. Then lost to Himeko, but had since been brought to consider E2 Bronya, since I'm still sitting on 600 starlight for her or Gepard's light cone. Most recently lost to that E2, so unless Bailu decides to squeak in, I'm freed to round out my roster! Bronya has been a benevolent leader~
I already commented about Serval, but also popping in to say I think Robin is not on the same tier as Sparkle and Ruan Mei. I've done a LOT of testing with her, especially with the new MoC and the only team she feels any good on is team IPC. I had some success with Ruan Mei and Robin together, however HTB is just better with Ruan Mei. Robin's biggest weakness is that normal teams just don't have the actions to get good value from her ult. Without 180+ spd, a normal team has 9 possible actions during Robin's ult. Not every team member will be hitting the enemy with all of those actions, meaning on average you tend to only get 6-7 activations of Robin's ult unless your dps is like Seele. Meanwhile team IPC is pushing 18-20. Leading to a Robin that just off her damage, assuming 15k a hit, who goes from 105k damage to nearly 300k. I want her to be more general than she is, but that's just not shaking out in practice especially with that monstrous 160 energy cost ult. You are right that she will be the best 0 cycle support for basically ever, but I don't think pull value should be assigned for 0 cycle units as 0 cycling is just a very different way to play the game. And can be made "trivial" by just slapping your favorite e6 damage dealer there.
I built up Misha just because I lack any ice-oriented damage dealers (i.e Jingliu) and he's... yeah pretty much okay. Having an ult that can potentially hit the same target up to 10 times and focusing on crit damage with freeze has a lot of potential, but it's bounce-range, so anything with more than one enemy will inheritly be a gamble.
march should absolutely go in niche. Remembrance cheesing is always a thing, but she can hold her own in MOC/PF depending on the current bonus. Between her freezes and aggro buff on herself, she can draw a lot of enemy fire without needing to skill *every* turn. The follow-ups also count as separate hits for various bonuses like the current MOC one
They sure did release a lot of characters in a single year.
LOL most of my units are in your high value list. I also built herta and the likes though. I'm just a giant fan of her personality. When someday her 5 star version shows up, it's a must pull for me.
22:22 Luka could be potentially be an good option if you don't wanna get Boothill (since i know you guys want Firefly or could be Ruan Mei) which he would get built as Break like minimum of 200% break effect & break alot without needing very much effect hit rate since HMC exist.
I feel like this video was written/made before it became clear how good Harmony TB is, because they are decidedly more than niche, haha! They enable an entire kind of team around themselves, and especially with Ruan Mei you can get silly things like Gallagher doing 100k+ damage as a healer. Harmony TB isn't niche because they can only go in break effect teams, they ARE break effect teams. I feel like that would be like saying Kafka should be niche because she's only for DoT teams.
Likewise, a lot of characters have more value because of Harmony TB's existence. Xueyi particularly feels like she should at *least* move up to niche, if not higher, just because of Harmony TB. Harmony TB also improves the performance and use case for characters like Gallagher, Sushang, Misha, etc. I accept if it might not be enough to move some of them per se, but there's more to discuss with these characters at the very least. Sushang definitely shouldn't go in bad though simply because Harmony TB gives her more use than the Physical TBs and Arlans and Dan Hengs of the world.
Silver Wolf being niche is also silly to me when she's as good as or better than Pela at Pela's job for the most part. I think they belong in the same tier. And I understand this is a meta analysis so it's not relevant but the comfort SW provides in early, mid, and even late game/MoC clearing for hitting weaknesses you might not have on your account cannot be overstated as far as I'm concerned, RNG or not.
There are definitely others I'd move around but those are my main nitpicks. Happy to see where you evaluated Jing Yuan though, his stonks have definitely only gone up with time and I feel like a lot of people still underrate him!
Adeventurine is pretty good with the Light cone with Topaz on it that affects enemies that hit you with burn, it gives him decent defense and a it works with Ratio and Acheron.
wtf is this lmao, there are so many things that i disagree that if i were going to say all them i would write an essay here
Yeah not a surprise, Vars has the worst HSR takes I've seen on YT to the point where the opposite of his takes are often closer to being correct (most points he made in his Seele vid were hilariously wrong and made it incredibly obvious he had no idea how to play the character, and that's one of many examples)
I think it’s funny that essentially you can almost seperate the top two tiers by paths. Top tier sustain and harmony vs top tier damage (plus luocha). Not a criticism I agree with basically everything you said (tho I would put Acheron in the highest tier)
Warning wall of text
Off hand the break effect utility abilities utilized by HTB would possibly affect the following placements
Misha: he has possibly the highest toughness dmg in the game against a single target and he has access to indelible promise
Xueyi: due to her ability to ignore toughness bar and the amount of toughness dmg her ult and blast skill does she is probably one of the biggest winners from HTB in terms of 4* units (bonus points for break effect traces)
Asta: similar situation to misha however with her skill (bonus points cause speed is massively important to super break teams)
Hook/sushang: both for similar reasons hooks being massive toughness dmg on everything she does (her blast has pretty good toughness and her ults is crazy with RM) and Sushang has great toughness dmg and can spd boost herself to boot also her E4 boosting her break effect by 40% helps quite a lot
Gallagher: he has the ability to heal, and he has the ability to deal really really good toughness dmg. With a light cone tailored for him and no necessity to build any stats other than BE and spd (and possibly HP/defense so he doesnt get one shot)
Things to note with super break teams: indelible promise is top tier for hybrid carries, certain 3* light cones (adversarial, passkey, cogs, fine fruit) are great for those teams since you only need BE and speed however it means you have to compensate for the lower base defensive stats
Love the list and love your channel figured id post my thoughts about the super break teams and some things that could be worth considering hope you have a lovely day and i greatly enjoyed your tierlist
I feel like Vars should build and play Yanqing to know that he's actually not as bad as he portrays he is. Cause why tf is he in the same tier as Natasha, March, Sushang, and Serval.
Saw the thumbnail for fu Xuan! Pulling for her in second half of 2.2!!
Same. I need another sustain for my second team.
Do you plan too pull E1 or LC too
@@Cuddle_with_Furina nah neither. I still have to go after firefly and jade in 2.3 (drip marketing) so I can’t really go past e0 atm.
silverwolf is lierally the kazuha of this game
aventurine has a debuff, his ult increase crit dmg enemy take for 3 turns. ruan mei might just a bit lower than other 3 since she needs break effect or efficiency which is a bit rarer and only harmony lc thats give break is her sig. mid players would be like omg she buffs the most but that depends more on her build, still op asf. should i go topaz e1 or s1 or jade or kafka? i have the ipc team and swan. i want to get ruan mei and huohuo too
20:05 "he did get better in recent years" the game only just had its 1st anniversary 😂😭
Kafka is the highest pull value damage dealer in the game IMO. Her kit is designed to straight up copy whatever damage the other DOT unit is doing. Her ceiling scales infinitely
I disagree with the idea of dps cannot be top tier, espeically since by your own list outside of Qingque none of the 4 star dps characaters are above niche, and that's just the DoTs implied to use with kafka, otherwise none of them are higher than average. So even if you have tons of supports if you barely have any character that can even utilize them, your account will still feel lacking.
especially acheron deserves to be top tier since as mentioned above, dps are vital to accounts still ,and acheron with even just 2 random nihilities is still realistically gonna perform better than say bronya or Robin if all you have to pair them with is characters like serval, hook, arlan, etc. plus acheron has so much raw brute force potetnial and insane scaling she's less likely to get powercrept in the near future than even characters like bronya, or Tingyun (who'd id argue should be a tier lower than the other supports as in the modern day tingyun does not stack up quite as high as ruan mei or robin even with battery)
i know many people who pulled purely for supports and sustains who are struggling due to lacking dps units especially of varying elements outside of Qingque
Overall I think Acheron, Kafka, and to a lesser extent jingliu deserve to be top tier, the first 2 especially for their basically long lasting viable kits that are realistically going nowhere anytime soon and if anything only get better as they release any nihility or DoT unit.
Tldr: Dps without supports are lacking but supports with no good Dps feel similarly underwhelming and a character like acheron barely needs supports if at all
There is no way you have Acheron in a tier that’s below a lot of people
The top tier is for supports, who will always be more valuable than another dps.
@@deltaspecies1697unless there's a unit that just yeets everything like Acheron.
@@deltaspecies1697While it’s true the pull value for supports are greater, this is a tier list not a pull value list. Tier list are typically made to rate the performance at the time of patch
@@TechyCatzthis list is whatever the creator wants it to be
@@deltaspecies1697Acheron currently is the best DPS, and she will get even better with more upcoming Nihility. Id put her in top tier
Damage dealer is also just as important as support in this game
Break harmony mc teams not mentioned? Shame on you!
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