Edit: Obligatory "Firefly's strong, she will continue to be strong, and current content is gonna make her look a lot stronger" statement. After a few patches, she will (probably) go back to being regular-strong, just like all the other strong units I talked about xd I'm not totally certain I've convinced myself with this video, but I am at least confident that I sound like I know what I'm talking about. Feel free to let me know your thoughts, because I don't have any friends to ask
Don't get me wrong, I've watched most of the video and think you've been pretty accurate, but it felt like you used way too many words to get to the point sometimes. It felt like there was a bit too much going back and forth, there were times where it felt like you were just explaining multiple characters' entire kits. You probs could've shaved off around 5 minutes. This is just my opinion though, still a good video
It's honestly kind of a rough feeling, but it comes and goes. Characters that felt weak against content might feel strong the next patch, so I guess it balances out xd
honestly, powercreep feels much worse in hsr than any other game due to how BAD THE ARTIFACT SYSTEM IS. its a COMPLETE struggle just to get a good set WITH 2PC 2PC. this alone made me stop playing the game. 🫤
@@ALittleSIMPle This ^. A lot of MoC (much like Abyss in Genshin) is tuned to promote the current (or recent) limited 5*s. Chars that don't happen to share the same strengths as the units it's tuned for, will feel weaker. Like when we get a Hydro DMG buff in Abyss because Furina was released - every Hydro DPS is meta during that phase.
hsr player : hsr power creep is so bad seele E0S1 0 cycle all MoC version be like : is power creep exist? *note : hsr is not always power creep previous character, the comunity feel power creep because they choose short-term character like danheng IL, Blade, ect. who easy to power creep. If they choose long-term character like seele, jingliu, ect. They won't think that power creep exists, and enjoy 0 cycle all MoC version
Star Rail is in an odd spot in terms of power creep. Every new DPS is stronger than the last, with Acheron blowing the lid off the power ceiling. But the power floor, the minimum power needed to clear content like MoC, still hasn't caught up with Seele, the first banner in the game. At this point in time, the only real reason to complain about power creep is either you are chasing the highest damage-per-screenshot, or your personal favorite is no longer the undisputed best.
I agree! I can certainly see why people want their favorite units to be the best, but not being the best shouldn't discourage people from playing their favorites. I think the game is balanced well given how many units there are. At the end of the day, a clear's a clear.
I think there are other reason to complain about powercreep other than they are not the best anymore, a viable one is the level of investment vs output, its frustrating to see units youve invested in do poorly, or at an equivalent level of something you hardly invested on. It's why people don't bother with investing in amber in genshin, even tho TECHNICALLY anyone even her can clear abyss, with the right amount or i might even say, absurd amount of resources invested in just to do mediocrely. Nobody wants to see months worth of farming only to hit wet noodles on, especially on compared to the hot new ones that youve barely touched.
I feel like content has caught up we are just using newer characters with our old dps. HuoHuo, Ruan Mei, Sparkle, Robin and Black Swan took most dps to the next lvl where they would have been feeling way weaker right now. I would argue DHIL is very competitive with Acheron a lot of time since he has his ideal supports and his dmg is very quick and consistent. You also have to take into account MOC buffs and enemy types those always change what teams are better as well. My QQ cleared in the same amount of cycles first half as my Acheron because she has high break effiecncy with enhanced basics and can break the enemies faster than almost anyone else so it made up for here being a weaker dps. Its the same in Genshin Impact the hp in abyss has definitely doubled or tripled at this point from how it was years ago but the new supports are cracked. My newest dps is tighnari from 3.0 that came to standard banner right after(I don't really use him in Abyss though) but I always get the new supports like Nahida, Faruzan, Chevreuse, Furina, Xianyun, Ganyu(Nahida enable ganyu melt consistently) and Xiao(Xianyun, Faruzan and Furina basically let you drop 100k + plunges easily with very little energy issues).
Dot teamcomps have consistently cleared MoC faster than Acheron and the Ratio follow up team is currently the best team in the game. Acheron is so overrated.
@@sct77 Yep people just see dmg per screenshot instead of just looking at the cycles. You would see damn near every dps can clear in similar amount of cycles and with higher investment can all 0 cycle content.
@@ALittleSIMPle replayed that part like 10 times on first watch dw bruv, it was epic it went so nicely along with the blade --> dang il --> jing liu intro tangent that I'm suprised your ass is sub 5k
The power creep in this game is, as you have observed, in the enemies moreso than the playable characters. This has a cascading effect on the playable characters, of course, but it's not the kit designs themselves that are being power crept. Like you said, older characters stop receiving a player’s investment over time, so they will start to languish against this enemy power creep. The problem with simply going back and investing in older characters, though, is that relic rolls have diminishing returns, and trying to improve a character becomes harder (and thus more of a waste of time to attempt). Star Rail is definitely designed like a game in its genre. There is a continuous chase to stay ahead of enemies, whether than means building new units or rebuilding old ones. That's not power creep by its traditional definition, it's part of most similar games. It is, however, exhausting for some folks (like me). XD It reminds me why I don't tend to play games like this, because I personally don't find it rewarding. HoYo at least does a decent job at balancing the kits for those happy to refarm for older characters.
Yeah, it's certainly not for everyone! I honestly hate feeling like I have to go back and redo things (especially since I want to change my characters' speeds depending on what teams I want to use them in sometimes), but I can definitely see how some people might feel excited to dust off a unit they haven't used in a while, revisit old concepts, or rebuild units to experience new ones. Despite my distaste for feeling like I have to refarm things, I do have a certain appreciation for the "freshness" of it xd
@@ALittleSIMPle For sure. I understand why it's appealing and why people enjoy it, it's just psychology. Skinner's Boxes and all. XD I'm just the kind of person that prefers novelty over the grind, which means games like Destiny, Diablo, MMOs, etc. all have a very finite shelf life for me before I'm burnt out of doing the same things over and over just to be able to do the same things I've always done. It's why so many people think Genshin is flawed when they don't realize it's "character building for people who hate redoing what they've already done." Yes, you do still run domains to build characters, but it's to build someone who provides new gameplay, not to meet a new artificially raised stat ceiling for the gameplay you already experienced. (I also think people hate the grind in Genshin so much because they have way higher requirements for their builds than they need to; I barely farm for new characters and yet I still 36* Abyss, but that's a whole other discussion)
@@effortlessfury Definitely agree. I think a lot of what drives people to aim for hilariously high standards is the social media "PVP". People see cool builds and showcases and they want it, too, but then it's discouraging when they realize it takes months or years to get the really impressive stuff. I play my alt account very casually, and it's definitely not something worth bragging about, but it's comfortable enough to clear things and I think that's good enough for me xd
@@ALittleSIMPle This is probably also why there are no in-game leaderboards. The randomness exists to balance the long-term grind, but that does mean that the highly improbable ceiling is ridiculously high, and given enough time, a handful of folks will reach it. If the game constantly raised the ceiling, that problem would never manifest, as people would all shoot past what the original ceiling was before it became a problem.
Star Rail's powercreep right now (as of its first year) is closer to exploratory powercreeping than outright number-boosting IMO... All units are trying to fill different niches. I mean, if you see the [5-star] DPS'es... Clara is an UNO REVERSE berserker (and honestly the best standard 5-star to pick up after Bronya and Gepard) Himeko is an AoE slicer (but slow without proper supports) Yanqing... is supposed to be a single target glass cannon, but his passives are so hard to maintain with the strength of enemies rn... Seele is a blitzer Jing Yuan is an AoE missile with a long charge time (though that charge time REALLY HURTS his usage rate) Blade is a self-sustain HP-SCALER who works similar to Clara. Kafka is a DoT-scaler Dan IL is an SP-charged nuke Jingliu is a self-buffing DPS who charges from team HP (excluding her own) Topaz is THE Follow-up Attack (FuA) cornerstone (heh) Argenti is an AoE Ult nuke Ratio is a debuff-reliant FuA unit Black Swan is a cracked DoT APPLIER Acheron is a debuff-scaling nuke and finally... Boothill is a Break Effect-scaling single-target nuke. (his passives are already officially out) Spoilers in replies for Firefly and Jade.
FIREFLY is also a Break Effect-scaler, but with more AoE. She has an Enhanced (via Ult) and Unenhanced state. When Enhanced, she Action advances herself after Enhancing, along with whenever she Weakness Breaks, dealing blast DMG with her Enhanced Basic and Skill (the Skill self-heals her). When Unenhanced, her Skill consumes HP to buff its DMG, while her Basic is meh. Again, she enhances herself USING HER ULT, and her Ult works similar to how Robin's Ult does. Her BE-scaling is strongest in her Enhanced state, and works because she's a Fire unit (Fire/Physical has highest Break DMG on Weakness Break)
Meanwhile JADE is an FuA AoE unit who scales with the NUMBER of enemies hit. Her Skill casts a passive on an ally that "counts" how many enemies they hit with attacks (including FuAs). Her Ult is an AoE stomp. Her Talent is a follow-up attack that triggers after at least 8 enemies are hit by her and/or the ally she cast her Skill on. This Talent can store a maximum of 12 (13 with eidolons) trigger count at a time. Oh and Jade passively boosts her Crit DMG slowly (but surely) the longer the fight gets. *updated to reflect actual kit
I agree! My analysis obviously only covers up to what we have available now (I can't see into the future, after all xd), but I believe HoYo's done a pretty good job of managing it well enough up to this point. Of course, I don't know if I can say the same a year or two from now, but we'll see.
+old characters never get reruns bc it. Im waiting for Kafka rerun for a quite long time, but there are still 0 information about it. It feels like u HAVE TO get the character on release or you will never get it.
As a Blade main who's had to skip both Sparkle and Robin, I'm definitely starting to feel some pressure. I have plenty of other damage dealers and good supports, but I hope someday we'll get a unit who boosts his standing like we have for Jing Yuan. :') Powercreep discussion aside, this is such a good video in general! Your editing and scripting are super entertaining and well-done! I'd planned to put this on in the background while playing Star Rail, but ended up giving it my full attention just because of that. Looking forward to checking out more of your stuff :D
I felt like Blade's case was the hardest to argue when I was constructing this video. I find him easy enough to use in content, but I definitely feel a big difference in his performance compared to other damage-oriented units. I'm holding out for a dedicated Blade support one day /pray Glad you enjoyed the video! I tried to script it in a way where you could listen to it like a podcast, but edit in a way that was visually attractive, so I'm glad to see it's working for some people! Hope you enjoy your stay!
If only Blade benefited more from atk scaling. Most supports seem to buff Atk. But I still love him and slotting him in random 2 dps teams. A dedicated support would be nice someday though 😁@@ALittleSIMPle
Blade fell off bro, people are still on denial. Still think the only way they release a support that helps him is if they release another hp scaling dps, which will be better than him anyways
I feel like the FOMO bit at the end hit my "feels bad" more than any actual thought of powercreep. My Seele and Kafka are still fine, better than they were when I first pulled them, honestly. Yeah Seele is doing 60k and Acheron is doing 400k, but Seele goes 7 times a cycle, I don't necessarily think she's being badly DPS crept. What gets me is that the new enemies and MoC buffs are always geared to the new limited 5-stars. I lost my 50/50 on Aventurine and went from full starring MoC 12 to struggling to finish MoC 10 because the lineup was filled with enemies that needed shields to beat. I never really get the sense of 'x character is bad now' but I feel constantly bombarded with "you'll be screwed for months if you miss the new guy" and if anything it makes me LESS inclined to put money or effort into the game. Limited 5-stars are dropping every new patch, as are new relic sets, and keeping up feels brutal. The other piece is that 4-stars feel ... largely useless compared to their Genshin counterparts. Obviously there are a few Pela-shaped exceptions, but for the most part having full teams of limited 5-stars seems like the rule more than the exception for endgame. All of it drives the feeling that no character is skippable, and it feels BAD. I absolutely get that it's the best way to drive monetization, but ... for me at least it leaves me so much less inclined to spend because you don't end up feeling satisfied with your new shiny character for very long.
I think it's a little easier to deal with if you try not to take it too seriously, but having lost my fair share of 50/50s, I can definitely resonate with this. It's especially bad when I think "well, I'll pick them up on their rerun" just to have that rerun sandwiched between two other new and shiny units that I want. It's a bit of a pain, so I'm mostly choosing to give up on the allure of the kit and I've given in to full-simping. If I'm going to lose, I may as well do it with units I find visually or spiritually appealing xd
I think it's a noticeable trend in the gacha community where in Turn Based games, 5 stars have higher values and priorities compared to action/skill based games like genshin. But usually the way that the devs offset this problem is by offering busted supports where at some points even the unlikeliest 4 star dps can be viable. For example, FGO leans very heavily on having busted support that at times even 1 star characters can reliably clear end game contents.
The fact that most 4 stars can't even compete with 5 stars are what makes this powercreep so much worse than this is because the game forces u to build so many teams if u want to progress end game but all the top teams are literally 3~4 5 star teams with most of them having their signature light cone
Yup, oddly right now a competitor to Mihoyo being Wuwa.. People coming over from Genshin/HSR are using the same exact mindset. Even though a Wuwa 5star does hit harder at c0, most 4stars in Wuwa can compete with a c0 5star.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773yup. I use a danjin little red girl and she hits very hard. Idk why hsr wants us to push on specific team path style. I would love it if they give a second option so they can buff their banner dps and also previous ones.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 That's...an entirely different genre but okay? If you actually bothered looking it up you'd find videos of people clearing endgame content in HSR with 4-stars.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 bro its the same with hsr, you are just bad at understanding it, im sorry. And using your logic, wuwa is a new game, it has like 3 character now lol.
Something that I saw you mentioned on Jingliu also applies to Acheron; they both have downtimes, contrary to Lunae or Blade, for example, that can just deal their dmg straight up. Also a good benefit of all these units is that they often can ignore enemy weaknesses, unlike Break Teams that have rised recently. I can see the conversation and why people might think of powercreep, but any unit can make work with enough effort and love. There are channels dedicated to fully star Pure Fiction and MoC with 4⭐ only. I, myself, have cleared all MoC rotations with Lunae without much trouble. Having fun the way you decide should be what matters Really liked the video and the discussion. And the sound was just fine! Felt like you described well what you wanted to express
Being able to ignore enemy weaknesses is definitely huge! Also glad to hear you're still using Dan Heng IL effectively! I tried rolling for him, but I lost my 50/50 xd Maybe next time... Glad you liked the video, thanks for the comment!
Meta break dps characters can practically ignore weaknesses as well, since they implant the weakness by themselves. Xueyi is an exception since she was probably made when the devs still weren't sure about how a break dps would work and she's a 4 star which are inherently weaker than 5 stars. I'm sure that every upcoming break dps will implant their respective elements like Boothill and Firefly.
personally, from what i've seen, and from how i've used all of these units mentioned here, star rail has not seen any major form of powercreep. all characters have content where they shine. hoyo gives you the ILLUSION that new characters are better because they want you to spend on a shiny new toy, but they equally want you to spend on the old characters aswell so they always give them content to work well in, reduce the effectiveness of said newer characters or introduce new interesting teams for you to play those old characters in. it's been pretty fair so far imo especially as a day 1 player
I agree! I'm actually fairly happy with the game's general direction. I only have one account, but I play on friends' accounts sometimes to help out with their MoC/PF stuff and given the amount of time they spend on their units, I feel like what I can manage with some amount of effort is fair. Power creep certainly feels present, but the feeling comes and goes with the Turbulence/Whimsicality buffs and enemy varieties.
@@ALittleSIMPle yeah like jingliu feels ass to use in PF or even the most recent MOC rotations. DHIL on the other hand, which was supposedly "powercrept" by her in ease of use, benefits from his flexibility in SP consumption and having 0 downtime. there's many more examples but overall i like the direction the game has taken
@@sup-md1moidk, dhil has downtime if there is a lack of skill points. also… idk feels weird to say jing liu has downtime when its not even a full turn. (with bronya)
i think few people had already said this but to me i view hsr combat as "having the right tool to solve the puzzle": - Enemy line up and combat(rotation + stage buff) is the puzzle - DPS is the tool and support is what made the tool more efficient base on what the puzzle is When i view and play hsr with this mindset, i have never feel any powercreep, it not always about the dmg, it about the char kit and the combination of many char to solve the "puzzle". I view getting more char as having more option to play, more card on my hand but majority of hsr player was genshin player or some other gacha game where brute force was always their answer and 1 solution to all problem mindset, they r too fixated on having the one ultra powerful team to clear all content in the game so new char tend to give them illusion of powercreeping old char. Ofc i know building char in hsr is tough, it took time and too many resource but that is the same problem for everyone tbh and it usually feel that way when they trying to level up everyone at the same time, if they focus one by one and prioritize what resource and where should they invest those resource they would have an easier time raising char in hsr.
I agree! Brute force is certainly a method people can use, but it won't always be comfortable (or even work). Star Rail's system is, like you said, similar to solving a puzzle, which is a nice way to keep the combat elements of the game interesting.
Having the only one right tool for the puzzle is... boring. Especially, then this tool is exactly the one you do not like but the puzzle is required to be solved - optional only on paper. Or if these tools and their building are the main and the hardest limitations while the game is not an RTS - such limitations are not a part of intended gamedesign. And still among the right tools they always release new "the rightest" ones which have bigger numbers or/and can do more than old characters with no clear disadvantage, eidolons and lightcones are wilder each time. So new gamemodes are required to just block some characters from doing their best/prioritize specific ones. I personally do not find using characters in scenarios made specially for them to perform better than others really engaging (if even there are such scenarios). I think that making multiple possible solutions to puzzles and characters to have different builds to perform as different tools at fair cost of getting disadvantage somewhere else is much more fun
@@jakeail1995 In Genshin, not everything has a shield/armor/immunity, and to cover for your weaknesses, you can also dodge/use i-frames, so you can invest vertically and brute force pretty much anything. Build a dps Bennett and a dps Charlotte and you already have a strong team that can carry you through most things on the overworld. This is not the case in HSR. Everything has toughness, so many endgames requiring you to use so many gimmicks and you're forced to eat any damage coming at you. In order to solve so many puzzles, you're forced to invest horizontally, building so many tools to solve them. I saw and realized this after I started playing HSR not so long ago. But here's the problem. I don't have Dan Heng built and I don't have anyone else to fight wind enemies. But I also don't have the resources to build more characters, so aside from being pressured into investing horizontally, I'm also forced to brute force everything using mainly Robin, Ratio and Herta. Without all the free stuffs the game is giving, it would be kinda hellish to play, although it's still tough right now.
Damn, this was a pretty good video, the editing and stuff as well! Wasn't expecting that when I clicked on the video, but got pleasantly surprised! Good job!
Thank you. I've been feeling really down because for the first time since October I haven't been able to full star MOC 12. When you said 16:27 "Don't let them win" and also 17:09 " You wouldn't judge a turtle on its ability to climb a tree" that really helped my emotional state. I've only ever been pulling for characters I like and even though I stayed up all night throwing various strategies at MOC 12, I'd never finish in the alloted cycles but hearing you explain that newer characters come with "higher floors" and content gets more difficult to keep the game engaging gave me a lot of clarity
The few Jades you miss out on isn't worth the stress. You'll get 'em next time O -O)b If it helps at all, I've played other gacha games and pulled specifically for meta, and the only gacha games I still play today are the ones where I've pulled for my favorites. Strong units might clear content, but they don't keep me hooked.
@ALittleSIMPle I kept telling myself that as well. Thank you ! ♥️ it was the feeling of accomplishment I was chasing, I suppose. That's true. I've pulled for meta in Genshin Impact and I've been clearing Abyss for years but now I'm just pulling underpowered favourites because they keep me hooked 😍 Thanks for the reply and your funny and informative video too 🤩
alittlesimple when manyverycomplex walks in: thanks for another upload, your voice, editing, and scriptwriting has got to be one of the bests in youtube cheers!
i feel bad for most of the people in my friend list if they have moc unlocked bc when they go to see what characters i clear with they're going to see 5 limited 5* characters across any of the 2 teams soon it's going to be 6* bc ruan mei won't be able to get away from me this time (yes i lost 50/50 last time)
They'll get the units they want if they haven't already. Most of my friends' rosters are full of limited 5* units, too. It's just a patience game. Good luck on your Ruan Mei pulls!
A story no one asked for: When I was in school and teachers made students do presentations, we were told to construct visual aids a certain way - mostly images or infographics, only shortened text if absolutely necessary, and that text font should be bold and easy to read. Any readable font was deemed fine to use, except for one: Comic Sans, because no one would take your visual aid seriously. And that's how my second grade teacher influenced my creative decisions.
How about the people that invested in seele compared to Acheron/Jingliu, Im sure they feel worse because the difference ln eidolon power is soo big you might as well not continue investing in seele but pull other units.
@@ChrisUchiha7 I mentioned at the beginning I wasn't considering Eidolons. I tried to look at this from a F2P/low spender perspective and adding Eidolons adds complexities. It's certainly something I can think about in the future, but my brain is too small right now. I'm of the opinion that Eidolons in this game are more of a luxury and that it's better to aim for a more diverse character roster. Limited characters seem complete (enough) at E0 so that I don't believe Eidolons really "fix" anything. For example, this Memory of Chaos phase is really bad for me. Had I not lost so many 50/50s, I'd have a Dan Heng IL playground right now xd I tried to look at this from a F2P/low spender perspective and adding Eidolons adds complexities. Another example is Robin and her utility bring a lot more than what the average Eidolon brings, albeit at the cost of a party slot. From a more personal experience, I'm still a happy E0 Seele-enjoyer xd Looking forward to Apocalyptic Shadow when it rolls around.
@@ChrisUchiha7 most players dont go for eidolons for carries unless they really like them or got lucky i guess. If anything they go eidolons for supports instead because most dps units have a whatever E1 compared to a support's E1 and only see change in playstyle for E2 which is already what most players cant get
@@alexblack1398 you say that as if DHIL's E2 isn't the most broken thing in the game so far and powercreeps basically any unit with the use of hunt MoC. Sparkle making him even more broken due to those free SP's.
I love how you get straight to the point and the jokes you throw in just make it that much more enjoyable to watch. Also you talk at the perfect speed, and my mind actually voluntarily focuses for once instead of wandering or multitasking 😂
I’m glad that star rail has been releasing a variety of places to use units, something that might not work in a current memory of chaos is able to work really well in pure fiction. If this keeps up for the hunt focused content we’d have some nice retirement homes for our units who aren’t that good as of a current rotation. I think one of their best moves was giving out ratio, an easy way to get us to pull for new characters like aventurine who we might want but may have not lined up with our current team setup. If they take note of how many people pulled for fua units after ratio, maybe one day we might see a similar situation to ease players into teams helping lessen the feeling of being left behind because of powercreep.
I think you did a great job covering a surprisingly nuanced topic. HSR "powercreep" is weird. Like, on one hand, you can argue that character A is better than character B because they are newer and better, but then character B gets indirectly buffed later down the line because of new relics or a new character that works really well with them. Its not at all like the powercreep seen in games like Final Fantasy Brave Exvius where a newer character will do waayyyyy more damage than an older character and the older character has no way to conceivably reach it. Like honestly, as someone who summoned Jing Yuan and Argenti when they first came out, it truly feels like I've made an investment that is paying off for quite a long time.
Thanks, I'm glad you think so! I put an embarrassing amount of time into constructing this video... xd Jing Yuan mains are winning patch over patch and I'm all for it. Dude's got me bothered and hot
I'd say HSR has avoided, if not at least minimized power creep so far. There are barely any units that play the exact same, meaning that each of them usually have their own niche. The only ones that comes to mind as far as playing similarly is Qingque's and DHIL's gameplay (eating all of your skill points to launch a tactical nuke), but even then they still have things that set them apart from each other and could lead to you switching between the two (apart from just which element the enemy is weak too). DHIL is much more consistent, and only consumes a max of 3 skill points, but Qingque is a lot more luck based (unless if you build a team around getting her ult up consistently), but with the potential to do even greater damage.
Yeah! Star Rail's direction so far I think is pretty good. There are challenges, but not without solutions (excluding monetary investment, of course xd). I wish I had Dan Heng IL, but Qingque does funny things to my brain, too
Controlling the meta through enemy designs and different modes is a pretty neat move by Mihoyo. Crazy to think that someone like Acheron could become weaker than 4 star dps characters if they add an enemy that's either immune to debuffs or has very high resistance. Thankfully, they haven't pulled such a bold move yet and hopefully won't indirectly nerf any character this hard. The powercreep has been manageable so far and it'll probably stay this way until further into the story.
The problem is the lack of good 4* Genshin had insanely good 4* characters so all you needed was a few 5* supports and you could use any character as dps. In SR it's reversed, the only good 4* dps is QQ, while there are a ton of great 4* supports like Asta, Pella, Ting etc. DPS will always be powercrept, that's what happens in Genshin too, but in SR it's more obvious because everyone already has good supports, so the floor is much higher.
I don't think the power creep is bad as most think as old unit can still clear every piece of content. But honkai star rail is very heavily leaning towards creating problems then selling you the solution. Argenti might as well be pure fiction only. They're making a new game mode centered around breaking bosses then are releaseing two hyper carry break centered dps. They purposely create units in paths with unique kits so they can sell you the signature light cone. No other f2p light cone gives nihility crit or debuff with damage stats so acherons sig lc is almost mandatory. No destruction units drain hp every turn execpect blade who is very slow at it. So jingliu's sig lc can only be used on her as she is the only one who can even proc the effect.
I agree that HoYo seems to create problems and sell solutions, but the way they're doing it I think is at least interactive for a player. Creating a new game mode and selling units that excel in that game mode is a lot more interesting than say, creating a half-baked character and completing said character's kit in an Eidolon or a Light Cone. With the former, rolling for a new character can be a refreshing experience, but if you don't want to pull for that unit, the content isn't usually hard enough to the point where you can't do it with other well-invested units (one point being old units clearing current content). With the latter point, you roll for a character you like only to find they're barely functional unless you put more rolls into them, and I think that's just a pretty bad feeling xd. I definitely agree about light cones being super-specific, though, at least for now. As newer light cones come out, I assume this problem won't be as prominent, but I suppose we'll see over time. At the same time, it could certainly get worse, so here's to hoping it doesn't xd
I took a break from HSR for around 5 - 6 mos, so I dont know to play with weakness break focused chars/enemies and follow-up attack focused chars. I was afraid the usual teams I was using back then (DoT team without Black Swan and a Hypercarry Seele team) would be buns now, but even with me not knowing wtf I was doing, I was still able to clear MoC. So while powercreep is still a thing in this game, but that's actually only noticeable if you compare your teams with other people's teams or constantly chase meta. Everything is still (currently) clearable as long as you have atleast 2 decently built teams.
I feel like too much gets put into perspective in Powercreep. To the point that even some believe to not pull for a certain unit, cause they'll get 'powercrept' in due time. When really, they forget that this is a TEAM GAME. Along with new MoCs, PF, AS, etc will come and go. With various enemies, requiring different possibilities, and teams. In order to combat it. Yes, there is some Powercreep, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
Holy cow, great video. I enjoyed you're script writing a lot, as well as how power creep feels nowadays in the current meta. Your video made me start looking at other characters I already have, but never invested a lot into. I'm a Jingliu main that's been struggling with MoC lately xD. Keep up the great work!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! Kinda wish I pulled for more units for a better variety of footage, but I did what I could. Good luck with your Memory of Chaos and unit investment!
Power creep might not be the best term in this game as the newer characters don't edge out old ones and make them useless really.. the issue is more often that the newest characters simply make the current game content too easy, and it's like having enough gems for the latest banner almost replaces the need for understanding of how to play battles effectively
IMO the true power creep of the game is overloaded kits and overpowered eidolons that make other characters completely negligible. Fu xuan and HuoHuo have eidolons that straight up gives Bailu’s resurrection. Firefly and Acheron’s answers to the weakness break meta makes Silver Wolf’s weakness break feel underwhelming. But rarely is content in the game so difficult you need to pull for characters and it can be argued that this kind of design makes team building more interesting by min maxing characters so mix bag.
Aventurine: easy safety net shields, but you may lose health from a beefy attack, but can fight back, especially when slapped Gepard:won’t give you shields when you want them, but when he does, they will take a hit like crazy, he too loving to die (he gets downed once, he gets back up the second time) I had been looking around for the comparison between them both since they often are compared and it seems Gepard is great against enemies that will turn you inside out with slow one hits, while aventurine is great against enemies that are quick but less damage Conclusion: add them both to a team with a healer and a debuffer to make the “dont die, won’t die” team
The stupid arguments from the Powercreep don’t exist crowd You can full star MOC with it > You can full star MOC just a bit slower > You can beat level12 with it > Why do you care about 60 jades > Starrail is a PVE game The honorary ones “Just pull for copies” “Just use the new broken support”
People who believe powercreep doesn't not exist really never play any tcg like yugioh. The powercreep will occur matter what happens as long as new unit get released with new mechanic or stronger versions of the earlier units.
well i mean, in that sense powercreep doesnt exist if you can clear the content, theres no "creeping" units if seele and acheron can still wipe the board just fine. the only thing that HAS changed is the powerceling of the unit, for example, seele eidions arent that good but get an e2 acheron and she can definitly clear faster than seele can.
@@francocolon6313 “there is no difference between some guy that makes 10k and 100k as long as they can both live a nice life” It’s both ceiling AND floor, the difficulty of MOC only will rise with time, and the worst unit will fade before the stronger ones. The boost of Acheron’s E2 alone is almost as great as all of Seele’s editions.
You skipped over Bailu when talking about the standards, for good reasom sadly, but I think a way Hoyo could indirectly buff her is by adding in a new unit that wants debuffs applied to them. It sounds insane I know, but Bailu (and Gepard also) not having cleanses could be useful for a unit with that mechanic.
That actually sounds kinda creative, but it'd be tough to implement without the kit reading out like a Wikipedia article. I imagine there'd have to be a lot of conditionals to make the character not useless if they got crowd controlled xd Maybe they'll cook up something like that one day...
Not sure if it would count as tailor made, or even a support, but you might look into the upcoming character Jade who was drip marketed alongside Firefly 👀
@@ori_the_omnivorousshe'd just be an aoe jingliu who doesnt proc hp drain as much not really a support for blade but just another option for using blade in dual dps situations
sorry in advance for my yapping and incorrect stuff if there is some personally i feel like power creep goes in hand with easiness of building new characters and evolution of teambuilding. like i was enjoying sushang first (still do) then pulling and swapping for topaz on the first banner, she was decent, with only somewhat good teammate being jing yuan, and double dps teams having no good support, now with the amount of follow up attack characters she 'powercrept' herself. getting ratio then aventurine then robin were just additions to my favourite, and she became absolute menace of dealing damage and enabling others to do so. now also backtracking to sushang, she was 'powercrept' since day one, now with boothill stepping on her boothills(lol). but she (and some other units) powercreeped with the power of ruan mei, and now harmony trailblazer. as for easiness of building, with example of current break effect teams, all that dps needs there is BE and speed stat, (exept quantum destruction marastruck one I forgot the name, and sushang, who prefer to go into hybrid builds more). honestly this kind of "powercreep" i find acceptable. even if my sushang was good before and bad past couple versions, i had fun using her, im happy having her being at her best right now, even if i need supports that powercreep previous ones, i had so much fun with topaz too and im happy with her being at her absolute peak right now, even if i had to change my gepard, tingyun and ruan mei from her team. after all, gacha or not, powercreep or not, we all shall play for our fun, with characters we enjoy, aint that right
hsr really discourages me from continuing to play cz how much and how early into the game's cycle they started powercreeping. 1.2 blade got hit by 1.4 jingliu so bad and its so hard to argue its not straight up powercreep. also your lovely voice makes the 8 pages of yap go by so quick lol
I don't blame you, when I was trying to put this video together, I had a hard time getting my Blade to push competitive numbers (amongst other DPS). I'm sure it's partially due to my build, he's definitely the unit I spent the least amount of time on, but I had to try to keep his strengths in mind. At the end of the day, I could still clear within the cycle limit, so he might not be the best, but he certainly still works at least xd Glad you can tolerate my yapping ♥
Definitely feels like powercreep is there. Realistically, my blade hits pretty consistent 100ks, but that's on wind weak enemies specifically. Meanwhile, the new dps as of late have been designed specifically to go through weakness regardless of what it is, making blade feel like an option and these new dps a necessity. Rough out here on these streets
I looked it up after writing the script to be sure and I was pleasantly surprised to find tortoises can actually climb xd I left it in the script because (from what I found), they still don't do it particularly quickly, so I thought it was still a fair statement to make. I also apologize about the speed, I'm a naturally fast speaker. Speaking too slow makes my brain forget what I was going to say. I'll try harder next time orz
Why are people even saying Seele is powercrept lmfao. Gets u 40k on PF and has the highest total damage on single target. I swear this misinformation is everywhere
Power creep doesn’t matter unless old units cannot clear new content within the given cycle frame, and I’m not talking about 4* because yeah they’re 4*, they’re naturally gonna struggle more outside of special use cases (Sushang in Super Break current MoC is pretty crazy how many turns she gets). If Seele cannot clear MoC in less than 10 turns but the new Quantum ST hunt character can, yeah, that’s an issue. But if it’s like “Acheron clears in 0-1 cycle while JY clears in 3-4”(just an example, ik JY mains get butt hurt over this lmao) bruh who cares they both clear lol
I agree, powercreep doesn't matter if the baseline is still good to go (Seele becomes the ultimate measuring stick haha). Btw JY can still 0 cycle, Robin gave him a huge boost. Pretty much all five star dps are able to 0 cycle still
@@graceyan7544 Considering I've seen Mr.Pokke 0 cycle with Welt, yeah I don't doubt most of the 5* dps are still good now. Even more so that newer and newer modes come out showing off the strengths of certain characters, Himiko is a queen in PF, new mode will probably give a lot of ST dps a place to shine (Seele vs Cocolia will be strong), etc.
The game has been out for a year and you already start to feel powercreep pretty damn well. They also release a tons of characters each patch. I'm certain by like year 2 or 3, characters like Seelee will be completly irrelevant.
Something to note is seele has been consistent in beating moc12 ever since she came out. Data confirms this. Power creep will only be an issue if it's impossible to use older characters to clear end game content, which so far we don't really see thanks to the nature of team building. Hell, people can clear moc with freaking yanqing even. Should be fine unless they drastically increase difficulty of the game.
It's very possible this video will be obsolete in the next year or two, but for now, I remain hopeful that things don't get too out of hand... Right now, I'm thinking it's a solid "okay."
@@ALittleSIMPle Right now it's still fine but the first year being fine, is standard for Gacha. I'm gonna need to see how this goes in a year or two. If the characters keep getting stronger, they will raise the end game difficulty to match and at some point it will get annoying. Or maybe they will stop raising the games difficulty and it will be fine.
I have to say acheron has some insane vertical investment. However, if we consider e0s0, i think acheron and jingliu are kinda in the same power level. Both have some downtime and concentrated dmg windows. If enemy is ice weak, I'd choose jingliu, if lightning weak then acheron.
people also overlook DHIL a lot, in the latest MOC cycle, he and Xueyi have the fastest average clear, and in terms of overall teams, DHIL is the fastest to clear, even higher than acheron. It's literally just damage per screenshot vs. damage over time
THANK YOU. ive been saying this for so long as a e0s1 seele player, powercreep is so exaggerated in this fanbase. ive been clearing MOC just fine with her! its so frustrating seeing people go “oh but so so does it better!” even when an old unit like seele can still do it just fine! also another note, sparkle with seele isnt really all that good, her action advance kinda messes up seeles speed and turns. bronya and tingyun works better for her overall.
+1 for fellow Seele enjoyer. She may not clear as fast as some others, but Seele (to me) still feels like one of the most unique units they've released so far because her Resurgence procs are so fun to work around. A note on your note, I agree. Speed tuning Sparkle around Seele is a nightmare and is often easily disrupted due to slows or action advances that are otherwise unaccounted for (things like the frozen AOE the chubby guy does or Kafka's Domination debuff), but giving me all those skill points so I can spam Seele's E, on top of consistency in Silver Wolf's weakness implant when running with a Quantum sustain (full Quantum team) means I have better chances in reliably bursting down enemies that might not have Quantum weakness (which is particularly important because of the defense ignore on the Quantum Relic set). This, in turn, (theoretically) gives me more Resurgence procs. tl;dr I agree it's a little janky, but the benefits it brings me I think is worth the occasional awkwardness. Of course, Bronya and Tingyun are still very strong options when enemies already have Quantum weakness and these other things I mentioned aren't an issue xd
Powercreep is hard to really look at objecrively. While newer units feel like they can DPS harder, it's really hard to say since so much of the new content that gets released is tailored designed to make the new units look good. When I play HSR I have the most fun when playing with different team comps so I think I approach the issue of power creep a little unusually. For me, every unit has something that would make me prefer them over the "better" unit. Like, take Gepard who most people have been looking down on lately. I adore my Aventurine, but if I wanted to run Simu on relemberance path I would definitely bring my Gepard. Not only are ice units rather rare, but much of his best equipment encourages you to build ehr on him. In that way, he becomes really helpful in content where I want to crowd control rather than shield. Funnily enough, in Simu this is actually a very strong approach as you can often permafresze enemies. When you're doing content where even the thicccest shields feel like paper, that crowd control becomes really important. So I guess for me, while many units might be more powerful than others, I still have teams and situations where I want to use my old units. I think that was also the point you were trying to make here, but correct me if I'm wrong haha. The dynamism that comes from having to try new team comps and discover net synergies is where I find a lot of my fun with this game. So to me, power creep doesn't matter much so long as the old DPS units are still able to clear content with reasonable investment.
I actually didn't mention Gepard in the video because I think he holds up fairly well. We don't have too many shielding units and I think Gepard's value in Simulated Universe is pretty solid, which says a lot because I feed mine scraps and he's been doing a good job xd Star Rail's balance isn't necessarily perfect, but I think they've done a good job in letting characters have their own spaces. That was indeed the point I was trying to make, glad it was delivered safely O -O)b
Personally... i don't believe in powercreep in a PVE single player game lol. There is nothing that requires you to 0 cycle all content, as long as you can clear in the given cycle limit i don't see why it matters. Also... now 1 year into the game there are now so many distinct playstyles with their respective DPS and supports to the point i would consider everyone for the most part pretty balanced.
I definitely feel like units get stronger on average over time, but like you said, every unit can clear within the allotted cycle constraints, so at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. I think HoYo's doing a really good job in keeping things as fair as they can.
I swear in every gacha games out there, they do always selling that weird "problem" and you ended up buying to solve the game problem. In hsr for now, the peak mechanic we've right now like cheap break, non-existent energy (no more tingyun i guess), or built-in implant weakness. It's not about how to beat all content, but how stay relevant with current ridiculous meta and unit requirement, and yeah...sometimes dps check, that's what powercreep about, i mean sure you can beat with old units still winning 10 cycles, but you'll struggle with the current enemies compare with old units, how to counter their mechanic, etc etc.
idk man. my seele cannot even beat MOC… powercreep does exist, especially in PVE. the amount of effort needed to clear is the powercreep. im not gonna waste so much effort and countless grinding on artifacts (which in this game, is the worst of the worst) just to be on par or worse than another newly released dps.
Powercreep can exist in pve based, heck even HSR clearly has powercreep issue. But they did good thing balancing their game difficulty so older characters can still clear it. So as long they keep doing it, powercreep is less issue in HSR.
@@k.h6635with this one, they also set the bar for what char is great too high. easy example, boothill. to be a great break dps, you need to somehow deals big enough damage while enemies are broken. boothill kit is so good, its just making other break dps felt lacking. his kit contains super break for himself and a free crit stat that scale with BE. and the free crit stat is both crit rate and crit damage.
After 3 years of 👍,🌀, and 🐼, I'm in the hottest take camp that powercreep is actually necessary to keep the game fresh adn you can't convince me otherwise.
I agree BUT NOT to the degree HSR is taking it. There's a difference between the transition from DHIL to Jingliu and Jingliu to Acheron. It's better to integrate powercreep gradually but not suddenly.
HSR needs to take a break with their new character releases. They will catch up to Genshin's number of playable characters and Genshin was released 3 years earlier.
(i didn't watch the video yet so im sorry if i said something you already did) Honeslty i think the powercreep in this game is so far healthy. Yes units get stronger overtime but the new ones puh older ones into a definitive niche. bronya used to be in virtually every team until ruan mei/sparkle.who pushd her into a blade/jingliu team. but now robin pushed ruan mei into the break niche and soon robin is going to be pushed into a FuA niche. The new powercreeps are temporrary replacements until they get their own niche. at least thats how i see it. As for dpses theres no excuse they just get disgutingly stronger every patch. and this wprries me caus if this continues older characters are gonna be useless. at spome point theyll have to make the enemies strong enough to match the new characters. i dont really get why hsr does thiss. Genshin, a game with no competition at all whatsoever manages to avoid powercreep pretty well. I men hu tao i still relevant after like 3 years. so are the og 4* supports. So i dont know why hsr, a game that has actual ompetition, chooses to powercreep chafacters. Genshin also makes more money so obviousl players dont pull for the strongest character
players DO pull for the strongest character, and Ruan mei is not in the break niche she just happens to be good in that team because shes good in every team. And I agree abt support creep being fine but dps creep not so much, usually older units are buffed via new tailor made supports or enemies so I'm hoping thats how they resolve jing yuan and blade being terribly overshadowed
@@jammed_yam ?????? Did you mistype? It's the other way around - Ruan Mei is the most niche-targeted Harmony we currently have, her whole kit touches on break effect, break efficiency, toughness reduction, break length... and she's the only Harmony to interact with Break in this way. She only happens to be good on all teams bc her buffs are teamwide and not dependent on crit, but break is what she's FOR.
I lost my pity on Jingliu even though I wanted her so bad I have all the Cryo units in Genshin so I planned to do the same in HSR but 50/50 said no also your jokes are still funny, also HSR power creep is definitely real thankfully I know who to pull for (Ruan Mei Havers after Firefly kit leaks) also that Seele isn't pronounced as (zeela) more like (say lay) or (Sae Ley) hope you continue to make great content
I either caught the edit late or missed it the first time, sorry about the pronunciation xd I just said it as I remembered hearing it. To be honest, it's been stuck in my brain that way for so long, I may not even get around to fixing it, but I promise to try...
@@isaacPc9 that's the Japanese pronounciation, Chinese pronounce it like Xīer so you do you I just wanted to say this cuz HSR's EN Team has been known for butchering the names and so many other things compared to even Genshin's team this is why there is no English voice for Honkai Impact 3rd cuz they know the EN directors will butcher it
@@ALittleSIMPle yeah no problem regarding that I just mentioned that cuz the Japanese and Chinese voices are much more accurate since they have existed before HSR EN which is why I said it, talking to any HI3rd will show that they all pronounce Seele as Sae Ley cuz the See part is pronounced as Sae and Le part is just Ley or Lay, and Chinese just Xīer is fine
Right from the launch I could tell the gameplay design anticipated a lot of powercreep so that things wouldn't get out of hand too fast. If you'd seen the design history of stuff like FGO you'd know how in control Mihoyo is with HSR. A lot of parallel systems where in place for different metas to cohexist with a slow burn powercreep : crit, break effect, EHR, follow up attacks too. Now we get Acheron that just asks you how many debuff chars are on your team, eventually we could get a char that checks how many buffs you stacked. As time passes Mihoyo slowly fiddles the system with things like universal break potency (Xueyi and Acheron) and SP regen but not so long ago Argenti started at the top of the meta with all in all a very ordinary kit. The powercreep is very slow considering that HSR pushes out characters faster than Genshin.
On all this powercreep and stuff i only would say that its a pretty huge deal rn after harmony mc some older dps characters can now be used but characters like jing yuan are just not possible for me to use in moc rn without using just 100% of my brain as the amount of enemies and their hp is just too much for a normal relatable jing yuan and with dan il i don't think he fell off for me atleast i pulled for his lightcone also and i am able to clear everything in the game without any trouble even moc 12 in 2-3 cycles he just does fk tone of damage in each turn (150-200k) and when ruan mei ult is active its even more😅 (E0S1) and let me tell you i have acheron, black swan(no kafka😢) and jingliu but i am too lazy all of them are at level 1 and no relics they are just a showpiece in my acc and dan il is carrying me till date planning to pull for firefly as i dont care if she is a good dps or not i just wanna pull for my babygirl and within like 6-7 months she will be the first character i will build.
I'm glad you're still getting mileage out of Dan Heng IL! I hear Daniel Mains are having a blast during this MoC cycle. Also, sorry to hear about your lack of Kafka. Thumbs up for Firefly O - O)b
Absolutely amazing video. I'm really glad that it's not just about a complain stemmed from not being able to beat a content, or the game being turn-based so powercreep is easy. Those excuses make me not want to watch powercreep discussion videos for the most part, but yours is really nice to listen to. I think what I wanted to say about the powercreep itself has been covered by you and other comments, especially about how this game is team-based, thus judging a character by themself is definitely not enough to determine the severity of powercreep. When it comes to topics like this, what I find interesting the most is the attitude of the players. Remember when there's an interview with Genshin devs? They said that they didn't want to design another gamemode similar to Spiral Abyss due to excessive anxiety, in which I heard this anxiety somehow was mistranslated and supposed to be strength anxiety (powercreep). And honestly? Both excessive anxiety (mental-related) and strength anxiety are applicable in this HSR community. We can see just how many people are wavering when there's the term 'powercreep' and see new characters indeed performing really good. It doesn't help that so many Content Creators are advocating about how broken new characters are with the most clickbaity video titles ever. For the uninformed players, they'll just take the information at the face value, not wanting to further evaluate why a character is broken, what are the hidden restrictions, etc. Nothing of that, just a simple 'Broken = Must pull.' That kind of behavior eventually gets carried over while giving advice for example. We know how some of us really struggle at some content ; we've been there at least once for sure. However, some players instead of giving constructive feedbacks related to whatever the other struggling people have in their arsenal, these players will most likely resort to 'Yeah, just pull this, just pull that.' Okay, I get that limited characters are powerful, but I don't think they're asking for pulling advice. Besides, pulling for characters means that you still have to allocate vertical investment anyway. Related to that, I've also seen players wanting to pull for Limited DPS after endless struggle. I don't mind them pulling for Supports because they're still universal in some way (I use Ruan Mei in my Hypercarry Jingliu team, and it works). But Limited DPS? All I think of is whether they actually have a team built for said DPS. Kafka for example, if they don't have DoT chars built, then... what is Kafka going to do, lmao. It brings me to something that most people do - pulling for favorites. Oh God, I still remember a commenter saying that they spent like $1000 for E6 Seele (because favorite character at that time), and they lamented because of Acheron's Ult damage. It's funny though, because for one, the context is already different (Seele has her damage spread into Basic, Skill, and Ult, whereas Acheron has her damage backloaded into her Ult), and for two, if Seele is truly the favorite, then the least they can do is trying to improve her team? People might say stuff like, "Oh, she still needs limited supports." That kind of argument is so often thrown at mostly 4* and older Limited characters. And here I am, wondering if they realize that it's basically the same for other Meta DPS to reach the desired comfiness. Jingliu somewhat needs Bronya, Blade needs either Sparkle or Bronya or even both, Dan Heng IL needs Sparkle, etc. And speaking of 4* characters, I think some of us have seen people using 4*-only characters to clear MoC and PF (and hopefully soon AS too). The statement I oftentimes see that's tied to that is 4* characters needing high investment and eidolons. While that is true, that's where priority comes in. I've said before that priority is important, and this is what I think some people fail to take into account even though it's a powerful weapon to combat the fear of powercreep. Horizontal investment is definitely needed at some point to make your life easier in some gamemodes, like having Himeko and Herta in Pure Fiction is gonna be really helpful (right tools for the right puzzles after all), but then I see some people overdoing the horizontal investment. In other words, they pull too many characters (likely from FOMO and powercreep narration lingering in their head), leaving themselves little to no time to build the characters properly. We're so tight on resources sometimes, so combine it with priority problem, and there you have it, a whole disaster. One final note is that yesterday, I saw someone using Aventurine vs Gepard as an example of powercreep. Like yeah, Aventurine looks better indeed in terms of giving shields continuously, but... he's limited character and of course - by game balance - has to be at least slightly better than standard character. What did they even expect with that, lmao. That's a poor example of powercreep for me not gonna lie. Comparable? Yes, but as a proof of powercreep is just... no. And don't get me started on Boothill vs Firefly debate weeks ago, this one was straight-up dumb. How does one already doompost an officially released character by comparing them to a not-yet released character bruh... To end this, I'll say that powercreep is not the main problem for now. It's the attitude/behavior of the players. We have to realize that it all depends on the content as well. Make it too easy and new characters can just solo the game (thus deviating from the main principle of HSR being team-based), and make it too hard and old characters will disappear among the sea of uselessness. Lastly, good luck on the Firefly / Ruan Mei pulls tomorrow!
I don't even blame people for wanting to complain about it, it's kind of cathartic xd I'm glad you liked the discussion! I remember the developer interview. I made the same error in thinking they didn't want to cause player anxiety just to find out later they meant something closer to avoiding power creep, and while I don't agree with everything MiHoYo does, I'm pretty glad they've kept it at a manageable level for both Genshin and Star Rail. I certainly agree that anxiety in either regard is applicable to both, too, though. I also don't blame content creators for calling every new unit broken. It's pretty easy to get the impression when the new endgame content is tailored to show their strengths, but it's definitely not always indicative of the full character experience. On that note, characters are somewhat bendy in that your experience with them is going to heavily depend on who you pair them with, what you throw them up against, and how much care (Trailblaze Power/Resin) you put into them. You have pretty much all my core thoughts covered and I'm just writing this bit to say I agree, and that I empathize with the E6 Seele guy. Seele is still one of my favorite units, though I felt she was strong and fun without Eidolons (though, I did go for her light cone on her rerun 'cause I like the idea of giving my favorite units nice things). She isn't built the best, but I still use her in Memory of Chaos for fun and she's more than enough for a full clear. I don't think a unit has to be at the top to be fun to pilot. Regarding the argument that a character needs limited supports, I can kind of see that, but also kind of not. A lot of characters are going to enjoy limited supports, and if they don't now, they probably will later (or at least see a great benefit from one). Your examples are a good point of reference where these DPS were strong at a baseline, then got stronger as more supports released. Strong units coming out now will likely have better supports tailor-made for them in the future, and then they'll be the focus of the same argument, which would be somewhat ironic. I've seen some 4*-only MoC/PF runs and while impressive, can be a little misleading. High Eidolons and good Relic investment makes it much easier, and there are elements of RNG that can make or break runs (getting crowd controlled when your healer doesn't have a good response, for example). I'm reminded of someone that tries to tackle Memory of Chaos on a no-pull account and whenever he comes to mind, I wish him and his sanity well. For horizontal investment, it can be tricky in general. I'm sure a lot of it is definitely FOMO-related, but I know some people have a lot of favorites xd So naturally, if they're following the "I only pull for favorites" rule, they're going to be spread a little thin, and that's likely why they're feeling the struggle. Priorities are certainly important and knowing how much you need to put into what can make a world of difference. Regarding Gepard vs Aventurine, I also find this a little silly. This is why I separated limited units from standard units for my discussion xd But even if we wanted to compare them directly, Gepard still has an edge in some cases. The easiest to note is his ability to freeze things, which can help a lot for stuff like Simulated Universe. Another important strength of his to note is you can pocket his shields for critical moments in combat. Aventurine doesn't have that same luxury, at least not consistently. You can shield on his turn and you can shield if your stacks cap out, but if you roll low on his Ultimate, you might get caught with your pants down. Granted, this is a fairly unlikely scenario, since he seems to be pretty lucky, but it's happened to me on enough occasions where it's left a bad taste in my mouth xd If you wanted to pose the argument that Aventurine is better than Gepard for a sustain unit, I'd agree, but Gepard still functions fine in the right situations (as most 5* units do). I absolutely do not envy MiHoYo's balancing team. If you were pulling for Firefly or Ruan Mei, I hope it went well! I lost all of my 50/50s, but after some manly sobbing and eight hours in Divergent Universe, I got there xd
I remember someone on TikTok going feral about powercreep as if all the new supports aren’t making older characters more relevant or newer content being made for more irrelevant characters lol. Honkai star rail and hoyo in general is very good at making any character good if you invest but def have their favorite children that they make better at release
often hesitant to watch these types of vids on info i already know especially from creators i dont know but this vid was amazing man and mad funny pls post more hsr
I can totally understand your reservations. All I can say is I try my best to make things fair and sensical. And hopefully also funny xd Thanks for watching! I got more videos in mind, but I'm primarily focused on Genshin content. Star Rail stuff gets sprinkled in when I have a fun idea
As a dolphin who owns all characters I have to say that the part I mostly dislike is that I dont really feel like playing older characters anymore. In genshin where I also own everyone I never have this feeling. Sure, Xiao and Ayaka arent the meta defining units they once where, I still clear all content with them and everyone else comfortably and more importantly, they still feel distinct from the others. In starrail, with a few expections almost every character feels really similar to play. So in my brain it will just always feel worse to play argenti than for example acheron, even before I got her eidolons. So I feel more and more like my older characters are starting to collect more and more dust. I dont use Jing Yuan anymore despite having his best team, I dont play luocha anymore because theres almost always someone better for a niche, I dont play silverwolf anymore (and she starts to feel more and more irrelevant with more characters ignoring enemy weaknesses or implanting weaknesses themselves) and I barely use blade anymore (tho hopefully a certain character will change that). Lets not even get started on 4 stars/standard 5 stars. The only one I still use from the very early days is seele, who while not super strong, feels really unique to play despite her rather simple kit
Totally understandable. Since Star Rail is a turn-based game, it feels a lot more one-dimensional compared to something like Genshin. There's less to do with skill expression and more to do with strategy and planning, so characters often don't feel too different from one another (in a lot of cases, get your speed tuning right, line up your buffs/debuffs, dump ass on something), so a lot of the character's "feel" comes from the animations and the dialogue. At the same time, I imagine this varies from person to person. Characters might not feel as dynamic, but I still use Blade despite his lower damage ceiling 'cause I like hearing a bit of angst every now and then, and I squeeze Silver Wolf in whenever I can 'cause she's a sassy punk and I think it's funny. I am glad to hear you enjoy Seele, I also find her playstyle really engaging. Resurgence procs are fun xd Thanks for your input, hope you enjoyed the video!
@@ralfian0234 honestly the only new character I think feels really different is acheron and not because of her own gameplay, but because her teams dont just consist of 2 harmony buffers and a sustain
Honestly I think the level of powercreep HSR is at is sort of ideal. As much as powercreep is a dirty word online, it's necessary to some extent to keep the game fresh and incentivize players to try new things. If Seele was as good as every character since, you'd have a lot of players who've never stopped playing with JUST Seele and have missed out on a lot of the fun of the game. At the same time, the powercreep is not so strong that it's making new characters compulsory, or old characters irrelevant. Hypercarry Seele can still clear current MoC, and I'm actively using her in PF because I don't have two great teamd for it, to a decent amount of success - I'm usually 10 or 11 starring it, with an account that's got no good AoE units other than Herta. HSR's powercreep effectively has all the positives of powercreep - constant excitement, new characters are always relevant, players are incentivized to constantly experiment and try new things - without the usual downside, like becoming excessively p2w or making old beloved playstyles useless. If you really love to disappear in a sea of butterflies, illusions of the past then you can still pretty succesfully do that. If I'm bored I'll occasionally still bring my Kafka-FireTB-Sampo-Natasha team from back in the day into MoC and it does perfectly OK.
I agree! I'm actually pretty satisfied with how things are playing out for the moment. No (limited 5 star) character is totally eclipsed by another and every character is viable with enough care and effort. It would be interesting to see some new 4 star units, though. I hope they do March 8th some justice, I've been looking for an excuse to use her xd
There is very little true powercreep in HSR. There is "ease of use" powercreep. Seele continues to have the cheapest E0 0 cycles in the game to this day - her problem is she requires way more skill and game knowledge to function to her full potential in comparison to someone like Acheron. Acheron's damage floor is very close to her ceiling, while for Seele, there is a gaping chasm between her floor and ceiling. High ceiling DPSs are not acknowledged in HSR's community - people think that since this is a turn-based gacha game, skill or game knowledge has very little effect on a unit's performance whereas this couldn't be further from the truth. This does vary from character to character though - Acheron really doesn't gain much from more game knowledge whereas Seele/Ratio/Boothill can literally 2x their damage if you know what you're doing.
HUH Cheapest? SELEE? with kind of relic would you called Selee E0 0 Cycle Cheep? all support using Wind set with 99.99% Crit rate on Selee and 200% Crit dmg? that is cheep? daaaaamn~ if Mono Quantum count as Cheep since its 4 5* can be apply as well with Acheron or Dan IL E2 with LC which is more cheeper since other character can use *4 and more cheep on farming trace too. what kind of cheep is we talking here, that really not make any sense 😂
@@Kindi001 It's shit like this that makes me think Seele's one of the most underrated characters in any game ever lmao. Seele can 0 cycle Sam more cheaply than Acheron can, both in terms of units and relics (Seele just needs Bronya whereas Acheron needs at least one limited 5 star unit e.g. SW), relic investment on Seele is cheaper too. You'll need wind set Pela but I don't think wind set's needed on anyone else. Acheron needs higher relic investment than Seele does here. And this is just one example, Seele has the cheapest 0 cycles for the majority of MoCs up to this day. People say Seele needs high investment to shine because she does, in fact, scale harder with good investment than other DPS units (and also with good gameplay, which most players lack). Other DPSs aren't magically still better than Seele for someone with the right gear who knows what they're doing. It's crazy how this is so hard to believe when it's easy to see on both RUclips and Bilibili. It's easy to tell why this is the case if you actually think for a bit. Acheron is limited to two ults per cycle regardless of what you do whereas using DDD and wind set well enough allows Seele to get many more turns and ults than she would normally get. In case it's not obvious at this point, the common tier lists for this game only apply at low investment and go out the window for 0 cycles. Also mono quantum is and always has been a garbage team comp, it's used for "comfort" but hinders Seele's kit severely. Which again should be obvious for anyone who knows how to play Seele correctly.
who ever tells you your video is too long has a tiktok brain. great video. and also regarding the topic: i feel like fights are always managable with any character (with very very few exceptions) its just all about investemnt. which is the name of the game. you either invest money or time...or both. many characters are viable and the more banners you skip the more eidelons youll catch from the banner you finally decide to cash out. its pretty balanced imo
That's me. I have the TikTok brain xd But yeah, I agree, it's a strategy game that tries to balance itself around a variety of people with different levels of investment. It's hard to cater to everyone, but everyone can get there eventually!
Felt like leaving a comment because I did have some good time watching the video xD and also because I did like the points you brought up. Although I will admit I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with some. Personally, the biggest "powercreep" I felt was not reaaally toward the characters themselves, but at the enemies. They've been getting constantly buffed every time a new MoC/PF drops (and now we are getting the new Apocalyptic Shadow). And this is what truly worries me. It raised me some concern when they did the big first modification on MoC, reducing the amount of cycles to get 3 stars, I believe we had about 16 cycles or so and then it dropped to 10. Looking back, we indeed needed more cycles because of the amount of resources and characters we had, just like you said. I used to play with 2 sustains because I felt really comfortable with this and the large amount of cycles allowed me that... and also, the amount of built characters I had was really low so, yeah. With the 10 cycles thing I felt obligated to play with 1 sustain only, which was a discomfort back then but I really don't mind it now. (Still, I miss the Preservation Trailblazer + March combo xD it was really fun) But on top of that, now the bosses (and even Elites) have huge HP pools which is kinda insane and it feels really unhealthy imo. This Aven boss MoC was one of my worst experiences so far because of how his gimmicks works. He makes you WASTE an entire cycle worth of actions that you could've used to deal damage, on a heavily RNG based mechanic and you don't have where to run. You lose buffs, you lose damage for... nothing. On top of that, he has too much HP, and then he has a 2 phase? I mean, it's good to introduce bosses with new mechanics, but in this case it felt just too much of a mistake and unfair play on Hoyo's part, having this kind of enemy that just wastes your cycles (with no countermeasures available) on a cycle based mode, y'know? Like, I cleared the first half in 3 cycles, I even managed to 0-cycle the first wave of 2nd half with my Jingliu, and then Aventurine alone took me nearly 7 cycles, doing the best I could to finish him off. Like wtf is this??? It worries me because in the future, what if they just gives us less cycles to clears like they did in 1.x? If they do that AND keep just increasing hp pools and introducing annoying mechanics, it could be a huge deal... or not. I mean, it's 60 jades for every 3 stars, it might not really be that important in the end. Ever since I started doing MoC, there was only one MoC I couldn't fully clear, and I must say those 60 jades I lost really didn't make a difference. It's still frustrating and a huge strike on your ego, but it hardly could have a massive impact on your pulling plans. I felt bad, but just like I said, those 60 jades I lost did not matter. Even so, I believe it is a topic worth to be discussed and I hope Hoyo pays more attention to it. (I hope we'll never see Aven boss in MoC again lol it was unnecessarily painful) I could go on and on with my worries about the possible "dangers" on the Breaks mechanics they've playing with but I think I've already rambled a lot lmao it probably became tiresome to read by now. So I'll just say I've always been a huge fan of how the break mechanics work, and I'm happy we have Harmony MC now, not only they are so fun to play and the animations ARE SO COOL, I now feel encouraged to look back at my old units like Sushang and Serval and give them a chance to shine again, and the way the Super Break works does allow it, and I'm really looking forward to it. HMC even feels like a 6 star unit and they are FREE lmao, I feel highly rewarded for invisting on my Caelus (i love him sm!!! he's my main). They REALLY COOKED WELL this time and they deserve every praise for it. Just like you said, new relics and units and such can keep old characters from falling into the abyss and I agree, I just hope Hoyo can keep handling this well as they've been doing so far with the FuA set, new team synergies and HMC. That's it I guess, keep up with the good dose of humor xD
If you had the patience to sit through almost 18 minutes of my nonsense, I can spare a few to read some literature. I did mention enemies growing stronger over time, and I definitely agree that some MoC phases feel overtuned compared to the previous ones. Your point on Aventurine, I mostly agree with. My initial experience with him was also rough. I thought (and still think, but slightly less so, now) he was a little too beefy for this stage of the game, but after a few swings, you kind of learn to work around it (cope?). His dice gimmick absolutely feels like a time-waster, costing you turns/buffs/damage opportunities, but successfully overcoming this gimmick rewards you with a huge damage buff and fully restoring your energy on those units. This increases the value of characters like Pela, who don't need to do damage, only hit multiple targets. You can use Pela's Ult to hit all dice, (hopefully) clear the check, and you get a full energy refund. HoYo absolutely doesn't want you to skip this mechanic because Aventurine's initial attack hits everyone and drains a small amount of energy so you can't use any sneaky tricks like Welt's Imprison to interrupt it. So if you bring certain units like Acheron, who can cleave multiple things, and Aventurine, who can proc his follow up when his Ultimate gives him stacks, you can fairly consistently pass that mechanic and have Ultimates ready to go when Aventurine (boss) is targetable again. The tricky part is knowing whether or not to save them for the next dice gimmick, which I believe he does every time he takes a turn in his second phase, or to nuke him down. If you don't think you have the damage to clear him before his next turn, it's better to save your Ultimates to clear the dice mechanic again. If you're confident he'll die in your next wave of attacks, you can use your refreshed Ultimates and the damage buff granted by his mechanic to kill him. In some of my runs, I've been able to chop off maybe 70-80% of his health in one window, so if you're relatively well-invested, you may only have to deal with this mechanic two or three times. Again, certainly a time-waster of a gimmick, but this kind of leads into your other point where one side takes three cycles and the other takes seven. It's definitely a humbling experience, but it's done that way by design, since it's supposed to be endgame (and ideally challenging) content. You might find Aventurine takes a long time, but it's balanced by the first side being significantly easier (as long as you're playing to the strengths of your units). It's possible MiHoYo will cut the cycle count down again in the future, but I'm a little skeptical of this (ie: pls don't xd) I do MoC on my account and my friends' accounts, and my friends are much more casual in how they approach the game. I think the level of difficulty I face in piloting their units feels pretty fair. It makes me squeeze my brain and shift strategies around to reach certain goals, and I think that's probably the way MiHoYo intended for it to be. That being said, some people are definitely not into this game for that kind of experience, and that's fair, which is why HoYo also locks a pretty small amount of Jades behind those MoC/PF thresholds. Like you said, losing out on the 60 Jades didn't really hurt you, but it does uncomfortably fondle the ego a bit. At the end of the day, it's just a game, and the challenges imposed by said game aren't fully indicative of anything like "skill issue". Sometimes luck is a factor (Aventurine boss is literally a luck check sometimes xd), and whether or not you want to continue testing your luck can be more of a test of patience. Sometimes the 60 Jades aren't worth it, and stressing over something as trivial as 60 Jades isn't worth the raised blood pressure xd Regarding Break/Super Break, I definitely think it's an interesting mechanic that Break (the stat and the characters that utilize it) needed. It honestly feels slightly undercooked to me, but it has a lot of room to grow. As an introduction with Harmony MC, it's good, but I feel like to maintain relevance and consistency, it needs more units that can do things like Ruan Mei does (extensions and Break efficiency). I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what units or adjustments (Relics or otherwise) they implement to make Break great. Glad you liked the humor, thanks for watching and thanks for your thoughts!
Idk, I've invested like 4 times more resin into Seele than Jingliu but, even with trash relics I took from Herta, Jingliu simply deals like 3 times more damage on average. I have to use Seele with Silver Wolf, Sparkle and Fu Xuan (3 5* of the same element) just to make her viable.
Its so easy to get jingliu to 100% of her power just by using her skill twice. meanwhile seele needs to either defeat the enemies or ult to even get her buffs, try using tingyun with seele instead of silver wolf, you should be able to see better performance by just ulting more with seele.
Interesting stuff, I started at 1.0 but didn't look into the meta til I had been playing for 6 months, so I missed a lot of the consensus that theoretically I should have known about lol, so comparisons like this help me put it into perspective. Also dude you talk so fast I'm having trouble following it! Setting the video to 0.75 speed is just a bit too slowed down but at least I can process the words lmao
16:35 - My problem with this argument is that HSR has very little room for strategy due to the simple gameplay, with the only real way to "get good" is to get better characters or farm like crazy for perfect Relics
This is really off topic but thank you for the subtitles!! It's hard for me to process stuff sometimes so it's nice to be able to read what you're saying lol
@@bonbuns6881 I don't even blame you, I couldn't tell you how many times I caught myself lost in zero thought when I was trying to put this video together xd
I swear in every gacha games out there, they do always selling that weird "problem" and you ended up buying to solve the game problem. In hsr for now, the peak mechanic we've right now like cheap break, non-existent energy (no more tingyun i guess), or built-in implant weakness. It's not about how to beat all content, but how stay relevant with current ridiculous meta and unit requirement, that's what powercreep about, i mean sure you can beat with old units still winning 10 cycles, but you'll struggle with the current enemies compare with old units, how to counter their mechanic, is it still relateable
If you can still beat all the content, would you say those characters that are clearing aren't relevant? I agree there is power creep and that older units might not push content as quickly, but this tends to come and go. One example is the current MoC phase, where I brute-forced it with Jingliu. Certainly not an ideal matchup, but it was still done within three cycles. Dan Heng IL mains are having a ball right now, though, and he was her predecessor. All that's to say characters will rise and fall in usage just due to the enemies that are thrown at us. In terms or relatability, I like to think I have a pretty decent understanding at different levels of account investment. I play my account pretty actively, but I also play on friends' accounts where they take breaks for extended periods of time, missing opportunities like events, pulls, banners, and just dumping Trailblaze Power on building their units, and I think the points I push in Memory of Chaos and Pure Fiction are pretty reasonable. It can certainly be a struggle, but there are a lot of factors that can contribute to why a player struggles, so it's hard to relate to everyone's specific situations. It's also important to remember these game modes are endgame content, so they're not supposed to be trivial. Game balancing is hard xd
As others have mentioned, slowing the talking speed just a tad would make it a lot easier to absorb and enjoy, but regardless I found it to be a fun video that explores something nearly all games face nowadays - Powercreep. I quit MTG, Magic the Gathering, just because it no longer felt skill based anymore (which sucks because I made money off it and wished to keep following the Pro Tour life.) Thanks for the laughs though and solid info - glad RUclips directed me to your channel :D *notably Braxophone, a popular HSR RUclipsr speaks just as fast which I find unfortunate for he provides great content* We are who we are though so please take no offense by the comment for the content was commendable and deserves a new sub : )
I apologize for the talking speed, going too slow desyncs my brain orz I'm working on it, I swear. Glad you still found the video entertaining, though! +1 for fellow MTG player ♥ Though, I also quit many years ago. Tournaments were fun, but I ran out of friends to go with xd
![[2.3 HSR] Aeons Come in Pairs - A Honkai Star Rail Theory](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iMRtiNQHmQo/mqdefault.jpg)
Edit: Obligatory "Firefly's strong, she will continue to be strong, and current content is gonna make her look a lot stronger" statement. After a few patches, she will (probably) go back to being regular-strong, just like all the other strong units I talked about xd
I'm not totally certain I've convinced myself with this video, but I am at least confident that I sound like I know what I'm talking about. Feel free to let me know your thoughts, because I don't have any friends to ask
Honestly a great video enjoyable informative and funny what else can we ask for
It's a very good video, you know what you are talking about and this is pretty accurate of the current state of the game.
Don't get me wrong, I've watched most of the video and think you've been pretty accurate, but it felt like you used way too many words to get to the point sometimes. It felt like there was a bit too much going back and forth, there were times where it felt like you were just explaining multiple characters' entire kits. You probs could've shaved off around 5 minutes. This is just my opinion though, still a good video
@@RandomPerson-sh9tu The Genshin story-telling brainrot has eroded my neurons. I'll try to keep it more succinct next time orz
let me be your friend! 😢
Agreed, star rail isn't actually that bad on the powercreep, but they sure as hell will make you feel as if all your units have been powercrept.
It's honestly kind of a rough feeling, but it comes and goes. Characters that felt weak against content might feel strong the next patch, so I guess it balances out xd
honestly, powercreep feels much worse in hsr than any other game due to how BAD THE ARTIFACT SYSTEM IS.
its a COMPLETE struggle just to get a good set WITH 2PC 2PC.
this alone made me stop playing the game. 🫤
@@ALittleSIMPle This ^. A lot of MoC (much like Abyss in Genshin) is tuned to promote the current (or recent) limited 5*s. Chars that don't happen to share the same strengths as the units it's tuned for, will feel weaker.
Like when we get a Hydro DMG buff in Abyss because Furina was released - every Hydro DPS is meta during that phase.
@@Ang3LofSp4rKright xiao was hella good in abyss on xianyun release. So was diluc because of his high plunge ratios.
hsr player : hsr power creep is so bad
seele E0S1 0 cycle all MoC version be like : is power creep exist?
*note : hsr is not always power creep previous character, the comunity feel power creep because they choose short-term character like danheng IL, Blade, ect. who easy to power creep. If they choose long-term character like seele, jingliu, ect. They won't think that power creep exists, and enjoy 0 cycle all MoC version
Powercreep is real.
Animation powercreep that is. 😭
Star Rail animations, trailers, media, all mint
and the SONG powercreep!
Rise up into my world~~~
Jingyuans was so fkn cool to me at the start and now we're going into different dimensions to ult lmao
Not really, Welt, Himeko and Welt still have top tier animations
King Yuan still have the best animation imo
Star Rail is in an odd spot in terms of power creep. Every new DPS is stronger than the last, with Acheron blowing the lid off the power ceiling. But the power floor, the minimum power needed to clear content like MoC, still hasn't caught up with Seele, the first banner in the game. At this point in time, the only real reason to complain about power creep is either you are chasing the highest damage-per-screenshot, or your personal favorite is no longer the undisputed best.
I agree! I can certainly see why people want their favorite units to be the best, but not being the best shouldn't discourage people from playing their favorites. I think the game is balanced well given how many units there are. At the end of the day, a clear's a clear.
I think there are other reason to complain about powercreep other than they are not the best anymore, a viable one is the level of investment vs output, its frustrating to see units youve invested in do poorly, or at an equivalent level of something you hardly invested on. It's why people don't bother with investing in amber in genshin, even tho TECHNICALLY anyone even her can clear abyss, with the right amount or i might even say, absurd amount of resources invested in just to do mediocrely. Nobody wants to see months worth of farming only to hit wet noodles on, especially on compared to the hot new ones that youve barely touched.
I feel like content has caught up we are just using newer characters with our old dps. HuoHuo, Ruan Mei, Sparkle, Robin and Black Swan took most dps to the next lvl where they would have been feeling way weaker right now. I would argue DHIL is very competitive with Acheron a lot of time since he has his ideal supports and his dmg is very quick and consistent.
You also have to take into account MOC buffs and enemy types those always change what teams are better as well. My QQ cleared in the same amount of cycles first half as my Acheron because she has high break effiecncy with enhanced basics and can break the enemies faster than almost anyone else so it made up for here being a weaker dps.
Its the same in Genshin Impact the hp in abyss has definitely doubled or tripled at this point from how it was years ago but the new supports are cracked. My newest dps is tighnari from 3.0 that came to standard banner right after(I don't really use him in Abyss though) but I always get the new supports like Nahida, Faruzan, Chevreuse, Furina, Xianyun, Ganyu(Nahida enable ganyu melt consistently) and Xiao(Xianyun, Faruzan and Furina basically let you drop 100k + plunges easily with very little energy issues).
Dot teamcomps have consistently cleared MoC faster than Acheron and the Ratio follow up team is currently the best team in the game. Acheron is so overrated.
@@sct77 Yep people just see dmg per screenshot instead of just looking at the cycles. You would see damn near every dps can clear in similar amount of cycles and with higher investment can all 0 cycle content.
1:36 DONT THINK I MISSED THAT PEAK TRANSITION
I'm glad you caught it, I spent half of this video working on transitions that most people probably won't notice xd
@@ALittleSIMPle replayed that part like 10 times on first watch dw bruv, it was epic
it went so nicely along with the blade --> dang il --> jing liu intro tangent that I'm suprised your ass is sub 5k
@@ALittleSIMPleit was clean af ❤❤
@@ALittleSIMPlel noticed the seele into blade one near the end!!
I WAS ABT TO SAY THAT
The power creep in this game is, as you have observed, in the enemies moreso than the playable characters. This has a cascading effect on the playable characters, of course, but it's not the kit designs themselves that are being power crept. Like you said, older characters stop receiving a player’s investment over time, so they will start to languish against this enemy power creep. The problem with simply going back and investing in older characters, though, is that relic rolls have diminishing returns, and trying to improve a character becomes harder (and thus more of a waste of time to attempt).
Star Rail is definitely designed like a game in its genre. There is a continuous chase to stay ahead of enemies, whether than means building new units or rebuilding old ones. That's not power creep by its traditional definition, it's part of most similar games. It is, however, exhausting for some folks (like me). XD It reminds me why I don't tend to play games like this, because I personally don't find it rewarding. HoYo at least does a decent job at balancing the kits for those happy to refarm for older characters.
Yeah, it's certainly not for everyone! I honestly hate feeling like I have to go back and redo things (especially since I want to change my characters' speeds depending on what teams I want to use them in sometimes), but I can definitely see how some people might feel excited to dust off a unit they haven't used in a while, revisit old concepts, or rebuild units to experience new ones. Despite my distaste for feeling like I have to refarm things, I do have a certain appreciation for the "freshness" of it xd
@@ALittleSIMPle For sure. I understand why it's appealing and why people enjoy it, it's just psychology. Skinner's Boxes and all. XD
I'm just the kind of person that prefers novelty over the grind, which means games like Destiny, Diablo, MMOs, etc. all have a very finite shelf life for me before I'm burnt out of doing the same things over and over just to be able to do the same things I've always done.
It's why so many people think Genshin is flawed when they don't realize it's "character building for people who hate redoing what they've already done." Yes, you do still run domains to build characters, but it's to build someone who provides new gameplay, not to meet a new artificially raised stat ceiling for the gameplay you already experienced. (I also think people hate the grind in Genshin so much because they have way higher requirements for their builds than they need to; I barely farm for new characters and yet I still 36* Abyss, but that's a whole other discussion)
@@effortlessfury Definitely agree. I think a lot of what drives people to aim for hilariously high standards is the social media "PVP". People see cool builds and showcases and they want it, too, but then it's discouraging when they realize it takes months or years to get the really impressive stuff. I play my alt account very casually, and it's definitely not something worth bragging about, but it's comfortable enough to clear things and I think that's good enough for me xd
@@ALittleSIMPle This is probably also why there are no in-game leaderboards. The randomness exists to balance the long-term grind, but that does mean that the highly improbable ceiling is ridiculously high, and given enough time, a handful of folks will reach it. If the game constantly raised the ceiling, that problem would never manifest, as people would all shoot past what the original ceiling was before it became a problem.
This is the most civilized, and respectful discussion I've seen online and it even has some great insights!
“Of five turns, three means pain” I never even realized this, fits so much with jing liu’s lore 🤯 4:45
“Of five people, three must pay the price”…I noticed this too! Very clever reference
Star Rail's powercreep right now (as of its first year) is closer to exploratory powercreeping than outright number-boosting IMO...
All units are trying to fill different niches.
I mean, if you see the [5-star] DPS'es...
Clara is an UNO REVERSE berserker (and honestly the best standard 5-star to pick up after Bronya and Gepard)
Himeko is an AoE slicer (but slow without proper supports)
Yanqing... is supposed to be a single target glass cannon, but his passives are so hard to maintain with the strength of enemies rn...
Seele is a blitzer
Jing Yuan is an AoE missile with a long charge time (though that charge time REALLY HURTS his usage rate)
Blade is a self-sustain HP-SCALER who works similar to Clara.
Kafka is a DoT-scaler
Dan IL is an SP-charged nuke
Jingliu is a self-buffing DPS who charges from team HP (excluding her own)
Topaz is THE Follow-up Attack (FuA) cornerstone (heh)
Argenti is an AoE Ult nuke
Ratio is a debuff-reliant FuA unit
Black Swan is a cracked DoT APPLIER
Acheron is a debuff-scaling nuke
and finally...
Boothill is a Break Effect-scaling single-target nuke. (his passives are already officially out)
Spoilers in replies for Firefly and Jade.
FIREFLY is also a Break Effect-scaler, but with more AoE.
She has an Enhanced (via Ult) and Unenhanced state.
When Enhanced, she Action advances herself after Enhancing, along with whenever she Weakness Breaks, dealing blast DMG with her Enhanced Basic and Skill (the Skill self-heals her).
When Unenhanced, her Skill consumes HP to buff its DMG, while her Basic is meh.
Again, she enhances herself USING HER ULT, and her Ult works similar to how Robin's Ult does.
Her BE-scaling is strongest in her Enhanced state, and works because she's a Fire unit (Fire/Physical has highest Break DMG on Weakness Break)
Meanwhile JADE is an FuA AoE unit who scales with the NUMBER of enemies hit.
Her Skill casts a passive on an ally that "counts" how many enemies they hit with attacks (including FuAs).
Her Ult is an AoE stomp.
Her Talent is a follow-up attack that triggers after at least 8 enemies are hit by her and/or the ally she cast her Skill on.
This Talent can store a maximum of 12 (13 with eidolons) trigger count at a time.
Oh and Jade passively boosts her Crit DMG slowly (but surely) the longer the fight gets.
*updated to reflect actual kit
I agree! My analysis obviously only covers up to what we have available now (I can't see into the future, after all xd), but I believe HoYo's done a pretty good job of managing it well enough up to this point. Of course, I don't know if I can say the same a year or two from now, but we'll see.
@@noahi.1381 how is firefly's ult similar to robin's?
@@faeribling They both have that timer for when the ult ends in the turn order.
If they released one new character per patch instead of two, people wouldn't even notice powercreep, right now theu just throw them at us.
It's definitely an aggressive release schedule! It's been pretty hard to keep up xd...
+old characters never get reruns bc it. Im waiting for Kafka rerun for a quite long time, but there are still 0 information about it. It feels like u HAVE TO get the character on release or you will never get it.
@@ViktorMuller-rz5jg kafka had a rerun right before 2.0 went live in 1.6, which was right after last year's christmas
@@ViktorMuller-rz5jgthey retun characters quite often
As a Blade main who's had to skip both Sparkle and Robin, I'm definitely starting to feel some pressure. I have plenty of other damage dealers and good supports, but I hope someday we'll get a unit who boosts his standing like we have for Jing Yuan. :') Powercreep discussion aside, this is such a good video in general! Your editing and scripting are super entertaining and well-done! I'd planned to put this on in the background while playing Star Rail, but ended up giving it my full attention just because of that. Looking forward to checking out more of your stuff :D
I felt like Blade's case was the hardest to argue when I was constructing this video. I find him easy enough to use in content, but I definitely feel a big difference in his performance compared to other damage-oriented units. I'm holding out for a dedicated Blade support one day /pray
Glad you enjoyed the video! I tried to script it in a way where you could listen to it like a podcast, but edit in a way that was visually attractive, so I'm glad to see it's working for some people! Hope you enjoy your stay!
@@ALittleSIMPle Jade can, I guess? But Jade would be doing most of the dmg tho lmao
If only Blade benefited more from atk scaling. Most supports seem to buff Atk. But I still love him and slotting him in random 2 dps teams. A dedicated support would be nice someday though 😁@@ALittleSIMPle
Blade fell off bro, people are still on denial. Still think the only way they release a support that helps him is if they release another hp scaling dps, which will be better than him anyways
ngl bro, putting DHIL over when you said 'long' was so smart because he's a descendant of Long, Aeon of Permanence holyy
Glad you noticed ;)
And “long” also means “dragon” in Chinese so there’s that too!
I feel like the FOMO bit at the end hit my "feels bad" more than any actual thought of powercreep.
My Seele and Kafka are still fine, better than they were when I first pulled them, honestly. Yeah Seele is doing 60k and Acheron is doing 400k, but Seele goes 7 times a cycle, I don't necessarily think she's being badly DPS crept.
What gets me is that the new enemies and MoC buffs are always geared to the new limited 5-stars. I lost my 50/50 on Aventurine and went from full starring MoC 12 to struggling to finish MoC 10 because the lineup was filled with enemies that needed shields to beat.
I never really get the sense of 'x character is bad now' but I feel constantly bombarded with "you'll be screwed for months if you miss the new guy" and if anything it makes me LESS inclined to put money or effort into the game. Limited 5-stars are dropping every new patch, as are new relic sets, and keeping up feels brutal.
The other piece is that 4-stars feel ... largely useless compared to their Genshin counterparts. Obviously there are a few Pela-shaped exceptions, but for the most part having full teams of limited 5-stars seems like the rule more than the exception for endgame.
All of it drives the feeling that no character is skippable, and it feels BAD. I absolutely get that it's the best way to drive monetization, but ... for me at least it leaves me so much less inclined to spend because you don't end up feeling satisfied with your new shiny character for very long.
I think it's a little easier to deal with if you try not to take it too seriously, but having lost my fair share of 50/50s, I can definitely resonate with this. It's especially bad when I think "well, I'll pick them up on their rerun" just to have that rerun sandwiched between two other new and shiny units that I want. It's a bit of a pain, so I'm mostly choosing to give up on the allure of the kit and I've given in to full-simping. If I'm going to lose, I may as well do it with units I find visually or spiritually appealing xd
I think it's a noticeable trend in the gacha community where in Turn Based games, 5 stars have higher values and priorities compared to action/skill based games like genshin. But usually the way that the devs offset this problem is by offering busted supports where at some points even the unlikeliest 4 star dps can be viable. For example, FGO leans very heavily on having busted support that at times even 1 star characters can reliably clear end game contents.
alittlesimple upload in the middle of the night when I'm working on something i hate
truly my savior 💙
I think most of my uploads will end up being at night, that seems to be when I finish them all... Sleep is for nerds, anyway
@@ALittleSIMPleI liked the upload time too, just when I woke up! At 10:00...
What an underrated channel, deep analysis with tons of humor.
Glad you like it, thanks for watching!
The fact that most 4 stars can't even compete with 5 stars are what makes this powercreep so much worse than this is because the game forces u to build so many teams if u want to progress end game but all the top teams are literally 3~4 5 star teams with most of them having their signature light cone
Yup, oddly right now a competitor to Mihoyo being Wuwa..
People coming over from Genshin/HSR are using the same exact mindset. Even though a Wuwa 5star does hit harder at c0, most 4stars in Wuwa can compete with a c0 5star.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773yup. I use a danjin little red girl and she hits very hard. Idk why hsr wants us to push on specific team path style. I would love it if they give a second option so they can buff their banner dps and also previous ones.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 That's...an entirely different genre but okay? If you actually bothered looking it up you'd find videos of people clearing endgame content in HSR with 4-stars.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 bro its the same with hsr, you are just bad at understanding it, im sorry. And using your logic, wuwa is a new game, it has like 3 character now lol.
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 recency bias. Sushang used to be considered one of the best dps in the game
Something that I saw you mentioned on Jingliu also applies to Acheron; they both have downtimes, contrary to Lunae or Blade, for example, that can just deal their dmg straight up.
Also a good benefit of all these units is that they often can ignore enemy weaknesses, unlike Break Teams that have rised recently.
I can see the conversation and why people might think of powercreep, but any unit can make work with enough effort and love. There are channels dedicated to fully star Pure Fiction and MoC with 4⭐ only.
I, myself, have cleared all MoC rotations with Lunae without much trouble.
Having fun the way you decide should be what matters
Really liked the video and the discussion. And the sound was just fine! Felt like you described well what you wanted to express
Being able to ignore enemy weaknesses is definitely huge! Also glad to hear you're still using Dan Heng IL effectively! I tried rolling for him, but I lost my 50/50 xd Maybe next time...
Glad you liked the video, thanks for the comment!
Meta break dps characters can practically ignore weaknesses as well, since they implant the weakness by themselves. Xueyi is an exception since she was probably made when the devs still weren't sure about how a break dps would work and she's a 4 star which are inherently weaker than 5 stars. I'm sure that every upcoming break dps will implant their respective elements like Boothill and Firefly.
Same but I also used Imbibitor Lunae to clear Pf too.
personally, from what i've seen, and from how i've used all of these units mentioned here, star rail has not seen any major form of powercreep. all characters have content where they shine. hoyo gives you the ILLUSION that new characters are better because they want you to spend on a shiny new toy, but they equally want you to spend on the old characters aswell so they always give them content to work well in, reduce the effectiveness of said newer characters or introduce new interesting teams for you to play those old characters in. it's been pretty fair so far imo especially as a day 1 player
I agree! I'm actually fairly happy with the game's general direction. I only have one account, but I play on friends' accounts sometimes to help out with their MoC/PF stuff and given the amount of time they spend on their units, I feel like what I can manage with some amount of effort is fair. Power creep certainly feels present, but the feeling comes and goes with the Turbulence/Whimsicality buffs and enemy varieties.
@@ALittleSIMPle yeah like jingliu feels ass to use in PF or even the most recent MOC rotations. DHIL on the other hand, which was supposedly "powercrept" by her in ease of use, benefits from his flexibility in SP consumption and having 0 downtime. there's many more examples but overall i like the direction the game has taken
@@sup-md1moidk, dhil has downtime if there is a lack of skill points.
also… idk feels weird to say jing liu has downtime when its not even a full turn. (with bronya)
Love how fast paced this is while being jam packed with info and memes
he has awoken from beneath the rock and blessed us with another banger of a video 🫡
As a new player, i can only marvel at the peak that is this man's content
My parents always told me that I'd peak early, I didn't realize this was what they meant
@@ALittleSIMPle Throughout HSR creators, you are the exception.
Stand proud, you can cook 🔥🔥
i think few people had already said this but to me i view hsr combat as "having the right tool to solve the puzzle":
- Enemy line up and combat(rotation + stage buff) is the puzzle
- DPS is the tool and support is what made the tool more efficient base on what the puzzle is
When i view and play hsr with this mindset, i have never feel any powercreep, it not always about the dmg, it about the char kit and the combination of many char to solve the "puzzle". I view getting more char as having more option to play, more card on my hand but majority of hsr player was genshin player or some other gacha game where brute force was always their answer and 1 solution to all problem mindset, they r too fixated on having the one ultra powerful team to clear all content in the game so new char tend to give them illusion of powercreeping old char. Ofc i know building char in hsr is tough, it took time and too many resource but that is the same problem for everyone tbh and it usually feel that way when they trying to level up everyone at the same time, if they focus one by one and prioritize what resource and where should they invest those resource they would have an easier time raising char in hsr.
I agree! Brute force is certainly a method people can use, but it won't always be comfortable (or even work). Star Rail's system is, like you said, similar to solving a puzzle, which is a nice way to keep the combat elements of the game interesting.
@@ALittleSIMPle yeah trying to brute force is a current problem of many hsr player, they only want to use one hammer so they see everything as a nail
That’s exactly it. I was a hardcore serval enjoyer when I started and with pure fiction and even some MOC 12s serval has come through so strong.
Having the only one right tool for the puzzle is... boring.
Especially, then this tool is exactly the one you do not like but the puzzle is required to be solved - optional only on paper. Or if these tools and their building are the main and the hardest limitations while the game is not an RTS - such limitations are not a part of intended gamedesign.
And still among the right tools they always release new "the rightest" ones which have bigger numbers or/and can do more than old characters with no clear disadvantage, eidolons and lightcones are wilder each time. So new gamemodes are required to just block some characters from doing their best/prioritize specific ones.
I personally do not find using characters in scenarios made specially for them to perform better than others really engaging (if even there are such scenarios). I think that making multiple possible solutions to puzzles and characters to have different builds to perform as different tools at fair cost of getting disadvantage somewhere else is much more fun
@@jakeail1995
In Genshin, not everything has a shield/armor/immunity, and to cover for your weaknesses, you can also dodge/use i-frames, so you can invest vertically and brute force pretty much anything. Build a dps Bennett and a dps Charlotte and you already have a strong team that can carry you through most things on the overworld. This is not the case in HSR. Everything has toughness, so many endgames requiring you to use so many gimmicks and you're forced to eat any damage coming at you. In order to solve so many puzzles, you're forced to invest horizontally, building so many tools to solve them. I saw and realized this after I started playing HSR not so long ago. But here's the problem. I don't have Dan Heng built and I don't have anyone else to fight wind enemies. But I also don't have the resources to build more characters, so aside from being pressured into investing horizontally, I'm also forced to brute force everything using mainly Robin, Ratio and Herta. Without all the free stuffs the game is giving, it would be kinda hellish to play, although it's still tough right now.
Damn, this was a pretty good video, the editing and stuff as well! Wasn't expecting that when I clicked on the video, but got pleasantly surprised! Good job!
Thanks! I understand, my parents don't expect much from me, either.
Thank you. I've been feeling really down because for the first time since October I haven't been able to full star MOC 12. When you said 16:27 "Don't let them win" and also 17:09 " You wouldn't judge a turtle on its ability to climb a tree" that really helped my emotional state. I've only ever been pulling for characters I like and even though I stayed up all night throwing various strategies at MOC 12, I'd never finish in the alloted cycles but hearing you explain that newer characters come with "higher floors" and content gets more difficult to keep the game engaging gave me a lot of clarity
The few Jades you miss out on isn't worth the stress. You'll get 'em next time O -O)b
If it helps at all, I've played other gacha games and pulled specifically for meta, and the only gacha games I still play today are the ones where I've pulled for my favorites. Strong units might clear content, but they don't keep me hooked.
@ALittleSIMPle I kept telling myself that as well. Thank you ! ♥️ it was the feeling of accomplishment I was chasing, I suppose.
That's true. I've pulled for meta in Genshin Impact and I've been clearing Abyss for years but now I'm just pulling underpowered favourites because they keep me hooked 😍
Thanks for the reply and your funny and informative video too 🤩
alittlesimple when manyverycomplex walks in:
thanks for another upload, your voice, editing, and scriptwriting has got to be one of the bests in youtube
cheers!
Aw, thanks! Glad you like the presentation. I spend... probably too much time on it xd...
14:45 Prolly the best transition in the video lol, well done
Holy fuck I didn’t even notice that one’s nuts
i feel bad for most of the people in my friend list if they have moc unlocked bc when they go to see what characters i clear with they're going to see 5 limited 5* characters across any of the 2 teams soon it's going to be 6* bc ruan mei won't be able to get away from me this time (yes i lost 50/50 last time)
They'll get the units they want if they haven't already. Most of my friends' rosters are full of limited 5* units, too. It's just a patience game. Good luck on your Ruan Mei pulls!
The red comic sans text with the the 1 pixel white border just adds so much to vid, i love it
16:12 :aware:
A story no one asked for: When I was in school and teachers made students do presentations, we were told to construct visual aids a certain way - mostly images or infographics, only shortened text if absolutely necessary, and that text font should be bold and easy to read. Any readable font was deemed fine to use, except for one: Comic Sans, because no one would take your visual aid seriously.
And that's how my second grade teacher influenced my creative decisions.
bro this video is hilarious but also informative keep up the vids like this man
Thanks! I'll try my best!
I don’t think we need to worry about power creep yet. I’ll be worried when it’s mathematically impossible for Seele’s best team to beat MoC or AS.
I will shed a silent tear if and when that day arrives.
How about the people that invested in seele compared to Acheron/Jingliu, Im sure they feel worse because the difference ln eidolon power is soo big you might as well not continue investing in seele but pull other units.
@@ChrisUchiha7 I mentioned at the beginning I wasn't considering Eidolons. I tried to look at this from a F2P/low spender perspective and adding Eidolons adds complexities. It's certainly something I can think about in the future, but my brain is too small right now.
I'm of the opinion that Eidolons in this game are more of a luxury and that it's better to aim for a more diverse character roster. Limited characters seem complete (enough) at E0 so that I don't believe Eidolons really "fix" anything. For example, this Memory of Chaos phase is really bad for me. Had I not lost so many 50/50s, I'd have a Dan Heng IL playground right now xd
I tried to look at this from a F2P/low spender perspective and adding Eidolons adds complexities. Another example is Robin and her utility bring a lot more than what the average Eidolon brings, albeit at the cost of a party slot.
From a more personal experience, I'm still a happy E0 Seele-enjoyer xd Looking forward to Apocalyptic Shadow when it rolls around.
@@ChrisUchiha7 most players dont go for eidolons for carries unless they really like them or got lucky i guess. If anything they go eidolons for supports instead because most dps units have a whatever E1 compared to a support's E1 and only see change in playstyle for E2 which is already what most players cant get
@@alexblack1398 you say that as if DHIL's E2 isn't the most broken thing in the game so far and powercreeps basically any unit with the use of hunt MoC. Sparkle making him even more broken due to those free SP's.
I love how you get straight to the point and the jokes you throw in just make it that much more enjoyable to watch. Also you talk at the perfect speed, and my mind actually voluntarily focuses for once instead of wandering or multitasking 😂
I'm glad this style works for you, 'cause I'm terrible at any other approach xd
I’m glad that star rail has been releasing a variety of places to use units, something that might not work in a current memory of chaos is able to work really well in pure fiction. If this keeps up for the hunt focused content we’d have some nice retirement homes for our units who aren’t that good as of a current rotation. I think one of their best moves was giving out ratio, an easy way to get us to pull for new characters like aventurine who we might want but may have not lined up with our current team setup. If they take note of how many people pulled for fua units after ratio, maybe one day we might see a similar situation to ease players into teams helping lessen the feeling of being left behind because of powercreep.
Glad you liked it, thanks for watching!
I think you did a great job covering a surprisingly nuanced topic. HSR "powercreep" is weird. Like, on one hand, you can argue that character A is better than character B because they are newer and better, but then character B gets indirectly buffed later down the line because of new relics or a new character that works really well with them. Its not at all like the powercreep seen in games like Final Fantasy Brave Exvius where a newer character will do waayyyyy more damage than an older character and the older character has no way to conceivably reach it. Like honestly, as someone who summoned Jing Yuan and Argenti when they first came out, it truly feels like I've made an investment that is paying off for quite a long time.
Thanks, I'm glad you think so! I put an embarrassing amount of time into constructing this video... xd
Jing Yuan mains are winning patch over patch and I'm all for it. Dude's got me bothered and hot
I'd say HSR has avoided, if not at least minimized power creep so far. There are barely any units that play the exact same, meaning that each of them usually have their own niche. The only ones that comes to mind as far as playing similarly is Qingque's and DHIL's gameplay (eating all of your skill points to launch a tactical nuke), but even then they still have things that set them apart from each other and could lead to you switching between the two (apart from just which element the enemy is weak too).
DHIL is much more consistent, and only consumes a max of 3 skill points, but Qingque is a lot more luck based (unless if you build a team around getting her ult up consistently), but with the potential to do even greater damage.
Yeah! Star Rail's direction so far I think is pretty good. There are challenges, but not without solutions (excluding monetary investment, of course xd). I wish I had Dan Heng IL, but Qingque does funny things to my brain, too
Controlling the meta through enemy designs and different modes is a pretty neat move by Mihoyo. Crazy to think that someone like Acheron could become weaker than 4 star dps characters if they add an enemy that's either immune to debuffs or has very high resistance. Thankfully, they haven't pulled such a bold move yet and hopefully won't indirectly nerf any character this hard. The powercreep has been manageable so far and it'll probably stay this way until further into the story.
This was a fun watch. Reminded me of DangerouslyFunny/Misshapen Chair style.
Looking forward to future videos and interesting discussion!
Poor Bailu.
I'm neither dangerous, funny, or a chair (though, I'm possibly slightly misshapen), but I'm glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!
The problem is the lack of good 4*
Genshin had insanely good 4* characters so all you needed was a few 5* supports and you could use any character as dps.
In SR it's reversed, the only good 4* dps is QQ, while there are a ton of great 4* supports like Asta, Pella, Ting etc.
DPS will always be powercrept, that's what happens in Genshin too, but in SR it's more obvious because everyone already has good supports, so the floor is much higher.
I don't think the power creep is bad as most think as old unit can still clear every piece of content. But honkai star rail is very heavily leaning towards creating problems then selling you the solution. Argenti might as well be pure fiction only. They're making a new game mode centered around breaking bosses then are releaseing two hyper carry break centered dps. They purposely create units in paths with unique kits so they can sell you the signature light cone. No other f2p light cone gives nihility crit or debuff with damage stats so acherons sig lc is almost mandatory. No destruction units drain hp every turn execpect blade who is very slow at it. So jingliu's sig lc can only be used on her as she is the only one who can even proc the effect.
I agree that HoYo seems to create problems and sell solutions, but the way they're doing it I think is at least interactive for a player. Creating a new game mode and selling units that excel in that game mode is a lot more interesting than say, creating a half-baked character and completing said character's kit in an Eidolon or a Light Cone. With the former, rolling for a new character can be a refreshing experience, but if you don't want to pull for that unit, the content isn't usually hard enough to the point where you can't do it with other well-invested units (one point being old units clearing current content). With the latter point, you roll for a character you like only to find they're barely functional unless you put more rolls into them, and I think that's just a pretty bad feeling xd.
I definitely agree about light cones being super-specific, though, at least for now. As newer light cones come out, I assume this problem won't be as prominent, but I suppose we'll see over time. At the same time, it could certainly get worse, so here's to hoping it doesn't xd
I took a break from HSR for around 5 - 6 mos, so I dont know to play with weakness break focused chars/enemies and follow-up attack focused chars.
I was afraid the usual teams I was using back then (DoT team without Black Swan and a Hypercarry Seele team) would be buns now, but even with me not knowing wtf I was doing, I was still able to clear MoC. So while powercreep is still a thing in this game, but that's actually only noticeable if you compare your teams with other people's teams or constantly chase meta. Everything is still (currently) clearable as long as you have atleast 2 decently built teams.
I feel like too much gets put into perspective in Powercreep. To the point that even some believe to not pull for a certain unit, cause they'll get 'powercrept' in due time. When really, they forget that this is a TEAM GAME. Along with new MoCs, PF, AS, etc will come and go. With various enemies, requiring different possibilities, and teams. In order to combat it. Yes, there is some Powercreep, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
Holy cow, great video. I enjoyed you're script writing a lot, as well as how power creep feels nowadays in the current meta. Your video made me start looking at other characters I already have, but never invested a lot into. I'm a Jingliu main that's been struggling with MoC lately xD. Keep up the great work!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! Kinda wish I pulled for more units for a better variety of footage, but I did what I could. Good luck with your Memory of Chaos and unit investment!
I too lost the 50/50 on Aventurine’s banner. We are now twins. Hello brother.
I'm sorry for your loss, Aventurine is pretty strong. I regret not picking him up when I had the chance, but there's always the rerun...
Amazing video, it indeed sounded like you knew what you were talking about.
Thanks! I try my best xd
Power creep might not be the best term in this game as the newer characters don't edge out old ones and make them useless really.. the issue is more often that the newest characters simply make the current game content too easy, and it's like having enough gems for the latest banner almost replaces the need for understanding of how to play battles effectively
IMO the true power creep of the game is overloaded kits and overpowered eidolons that make other characters completely negligible. Fu xuan and HuoHuo have eidolons that straight up gives Bailu’s resurrection. Firefly and Acheron’s answers to the weakness break meta makes Silver Wolf’s weakness break feel underwhelming. But rarely is content in the game so difficult you need to pull for characters and it can be argued that this kind of design makes team building more interesting by min maxing characters so mix bag.
Bro the transition in this video is crazy smooth
Thanks, glad you noticed! I put a lot of time into those xd
Aventurine: easy safety net shields, but you may lose health from a beefy attack, but can fight back, especially when slapped
Gepard:won’t give you shields when you want them, but when he does, they will take a hit like crazy, he too loving to die (he gets downed once, he gets back up the second time)
I had been looking around for the comparison between them both since they often are compared and it seems Gepard is great against enemies that will turn you inside out with slow one hits, while aventurine is great against enemies that are quick but less damage
Conclusion: add them both to a team with a healer and a debuffer to make the “dont die, won’t die” team
The stupid arguments from the Powercreep don’t exist crowd
You can full star MOC with it > You can full star MOC just a bit slower > You can beat level12 with it > Why do you care about 60 jades > Starrail is a PVE game
The honorary ones
“Just pull for copies”
“Just use the new broken support”
People who believe powercreep doesn't not exist really never play any tcg like yugioh. The powercreep will occur matter what happens as long as new unit get released with new mechanic or stronger versions of the earlier units.
well i mean, in that sense powercreep doesnt exist if you can clear the content, theres no "creeping" units if seele and acheron can still wipe the board just fine. the only thing that HAS changed is the powerceling of the unit, for example, seele eidions arent that good but get an e2 acheron and she can definitly clear faster than seele can.
@@francocolon6313 “there is no difference between some guy that makes 10k and 100k as long as they can both live a nice life” It’s both ceiling AND floor, the difficulty of MOC only will rise with time, and the worst unit will fade before the stronger ones. The boost of Acheron’s E2 alone is almost as great as all of Seele’s editions.
You skipped over Bailu when talking about the standards, for good reasom sadly, but I think a way Hoyo could indirectly buff her is by adding in a new unit that wants debuffs applied to them. It sounds insane I know, but Bailu (and Gepard also) not having cleanses could be useful for a unit with that mechanic.
That actually sounds kinda creative, but it'd be tough to implement without the kit reading out like a Wikipedia article. I imagine there'd have to be a lot of conditionals to make the character not useless if they got crowd controlled xd Maybe they'll cook up something like that one day...
Star rail will surely release a dedicated hp and aggro buffing units for blade(cope).
or maybe a character who advance forwards an enemy (or enemies)
kafka chilling knowing she won’t be powercrept
Acheron is an exception. Rest of dps are going surprisingly even, including firefly. Except poor blade because he doesnt have tailor-made support.
He'll have his support one day... Hopefully...
Not sure if it would count as tailor made, or even a support, but you might look into the upcoming character Jade who was drip marketed alongside Firefly 👀
@@ori_the_omnivorousshe'd just be an aoe jingliu who doesnt proc hp drain as much
not really a support for blade but just another option for using blade in dual dps situations
Okay but this vid has to be the star rail content with the smoothest transition I saw
you finally uploaded :o
i thought Simple passed away he was gone so long 😭
I had much thinking to do. I must have rewritten/reconstructed this script half a dozen times xd
@@ALittleSIMPle fucked up sleep schedule gang 😭 (pls go to bed ok? ok. ok? ok. okokokokokoko)
@@krystalwhispers The bed has been visited. It's doing well O -O)b
sorry in advance for my yapping and incorrect stuff if there is some
personally i feel like power creep goes in hand with easiness of building new characters and evolution of teambuilding.
like i was enjoying sushang first (still do) then pulling and swapping for topaz on the first banner, she was decent, with only somewhat good teammate being jing yuan, and double dps teams having no good support, now with the amount of follow up attack characters she 'powercrept' herself. getting ratio then aventurine then robin were just additions to my favourite, and she became absolute menace of dealing damage and enabling others to do so.
now also backtracking to sushang, she was 'powercrept' since day one, now with boothill stepping on her boothills(lol). but she (and some other units) powercreeped with the power of ruan mei, and now harmony trailblazer.
as for easiness of building, with example of current break effect teams, all that dps needs there is BE and speed stat, (exept quantum destruction marastruck one I forgot the name, and sushang, who prefer to go into hybrid builds more).
honestly this kind of "powercreep" i find acceptable. even if my sushang was good before and bad past couple versions, i had fun using her, im happy having her being at her best right now, even if i need supports that powercreep previous ones, i had so much fun with topaz too and im happy with her being at her absolute peak right now, even if i had to change my gepard, tingyun and ruan mei from her team.
after all, gacha or not, powercreep or not, we all shall play for our fun, with characters we enjoy, aint that right
hsr really discourages me from continuing to play cz how much and how early into the game's cycle they started powercreeping. 1.2 blade got hit by 1.4 jingliu so bad and its so hard to argue its not straight up powercreep.
also your lovely voice makes the 8 pages of yap go by so quick lol
I don't blame you, when I was trying to put this video together, I had a hard time getting my Blade to push competitive numbers (amongst other DPS). I'm sure it's partially due to my build, he's definitely the unit I spent the least amount of time on, but I had to try to keep his strengths in mind. At the end of the day, I could still clear within the cycle limit, so he might not be the best, but he certainly still works at least xd
Glad you can tolerate my yapping ♥
to be fair blade just inherently has lower damage to make up for his innately high self sustainability and tankiness and low sp cost
Definitely feels like powercreep is there. Realistically, my blade hits pretty consistent 100ks, but that's on wind weak enemies specifically. Meanwhile, the new dps as of late have been designed specifically to go through weakness regardless of what it is, making blade feel like an option and these new dps a necessity. Rough out here on these streets
Many species of tortoises climb trees. Also I had to watch this video at .9 speed .
I looked it up after writing the script to be sure and I was pleasantly surprised to find tortoises can actually climb xd I left it in the script because (from what I found), they still don't do it particularly quickly, so I thought it was still a fair statement to make.
I also apologize about the speed, I'm a naturally fast speaker. Speaking too slow makes my brain forget what I was going to say. I'll try harder next time orz
@@ALittleSIMPle np, I can always slow down the vid lmao
And now my girl Firefly brought 'let's nuke your toughness bar like I nuked my planet' onto the table, basically powercreeping to another level. 🤣
Why are people even saying Seele is powercrept lmfao. Gets u 40k on PF and has the highest total damage on single target. I swear this misinformation is everywhere
Not anymore highest total damage with Feixiao coming
@@nyes4596 Dps per turn wise feixao is still lower actually. Her stacking needs to be buffed
@@kyarumomochi5146 It is buffed on the new V
14:45 That Seele Ult to Blade Ult cut was fantastic.
Power creep doesn’t matter unless old units cannot clear new content within the given cycle frame, and I’m not talking about 4* because yeah they’re 4*, they’re naturally gonna struggle more outside of special use cases (Sushang in Super Break current MoC is pretty crazy how many turns she gets).
If Seele cannot clear MoC in less than 10 turns but the new Quantum ST hunt character can, yeah, that’s an issue. But if it’s like “Acheron clears in 0-1 cycle while JY clears in 3-4”(just an example, ik JY mains get butt hurt over this lmao) bruh who cares they both clear lol
I agree, powercreep doesn't matter if the baseline is still good to go (Seele becomes the ultimate measuring stick haha). Btw JY can still 0 cycle, Robin gave him a huge boost. Pretty much all five star dps are able to 0 cycle still
@@graceyan7544 Considering I've seen Mr.Pokke 0 cycle with Welt, yeah I don't doubt most of the 5* dps are still good now. Even more so that newer and newer modes come out showing off the strengths of certain characters, Himiko is a queen in PF, new mode will probably give a lot of ST dps a place to shine (Seele vs Cocolia will be strong), etc.
The editing transitions from Blade > DHIL > Jingliu > Acheron were so clean
The game has been out for a year and you already start to feel powercreep pretty damn well. They also release a tons of characters each patch. I'm certain by like year 2 or 3, characters like Seelee will be completly irrelevant.
Something to note is seele has been consistent in beating moc12 ever since she came out. Data confirms this.
Power creep will only be an issue if it's impossible to use older characters to clear end game content, which so far we don't really see thanks to the nature of team building. Hell, people can clear moc with freaking yanqing even. Should be fine unless they drastically increase difficulty of the game.
It's very possible this video will be obsolete in the next year or two, but for now, I remain hopeful that things don't get too out of hand... Right now, I'm thinking it's a solid "okay."
@@ALittleSIMPle Right now it's still fine but the first year being fine, is standard for Gacha. I'm gonna need to see how this goes in a year or two. If the characters keep getting stronger, they will raise the end game difficulty to match and at some point it will get annoying. Or maybe they will stop raising the games difficulty and it will be fine.
@@jijidu69 Only time will tell! I'm looking forward to seeing how this game progresses.
@@ALittleSIMPle Powercreep is inevitable in these kinds of game, but it's interesting to see how the devs try to avoid that when they care.
I have to say acheron has some insane vertical investment. However, if we consider e0s0, i think acheron and jingliu are kinda in the same power level. Both have some downtime and concentrated dmg windows. If enemy is ice weak, I'd choose jingliu, if lightning weak then acheron.
people also overlook DHIL a lot, in the latest MOC cycle, he and Xueyi have the fastest average clear, and in terms of overall teams, DHIL is the fastest to clear, even higher than acheron. It's literally just damage per screenshot vs. damage over time
THANK YOU. ive been saying this for so long as a e0s1 seele player, powercreep is so exaggerated in this fanbase. ive been clearing MOC just fine with her! its so frustrating seeing people go “oh but so so does it better!” even when an old unit like seele can still do it just fine!
also another note, sparkle with seele isnt really all that good, her action advance kinda messes up seeles speed and turns. bronya and tingyun works better for her overall.
+1 for fellow Seele enjoyer.
She may not clear as fast as some others, but Seele (to me) still feels like one of the most unique units they've released so far because her Resurgence procs are so fun to work around.
A note on your note, I agree. Speed tuning Sparkle around Seele is a nightmare and is often easily disrupted due to slows or action advances that are otherwise unaccounted for (things like the frozen AOE the chubby guy does or Kafka's Domination debuff), but giving me all those skill points so I can spam Seele's E, on top of consistency in Silver Wolf's weakness implant when running with a Quantum sustain (full Quantum team) means I have better chances in reliably bursting down enemies that might not have Quantum weakness (which is particularly important because of the defense ignore on the Quantum Relic set). This, in turn, (theoretically) gives me more Resurgence procs. tl;dr I agree it's a little janky, but the benefits it brings me I think is worth the occasional awkwardness. Of course, Bronya and Tingyun are still very strong options when enemies already have Quantum weakness and these other things I mentioned aren't an issue xd
Powercreep is hard to really look at objecrively. While newer units feel like they can DPS harder, it's really hard to say since so much of the new content that gets released is tailored designed to make the new units look good.
When I play HSR I have the most fun when playing with different team comps so I think I approach the issue of power creep a little unusually. For me, every unit has something that would make me prefer them over the "better" unit. Like, take Gepard who most people have been looking down on lately. I adore my Aventurine, but if I wanted to run Simu on relemberance path I would definitely bring my Gepard. Not only are ice units rather rare, but much of his best equipment encourages you to build ehr on him. In that way, he becomes really helpful in content where I want to crowd control rather than shield. Funnily enough, in Simu this is actually a very strong approach as you can often permafresze enemies. When you're doing content where even the thicccest shields feel like paper, that crowd control becomes really important.
So I guess for me, while many units might be more powerful than others, I still have teams and situations where I want to use my old units. I think that was also the point you were trying to make here, but correct me if I'm wrong haha.
The dynamism that comes from having to try new team comps and discover net synergies is where I find a lot of my fun with this game. So to me, power creep doesn't matter much so long as the old DPS units are still able to clear content with reasonable investment.
I actually didn't mention Gepard in the video because I think he holds up fairly well. We don't have too many shielding units and I think Gepard's value in Simulated Universe is pretty solid, which says a lot because I feed mine scraps and he's been doing a good job xd
Star Rail's balance isn't necessarily perfect, but I think they've done a good job in letting characters have their own spaces. That was indeed the point I was trying to make, glad it was delivered safely O -O)b
Personally... i don't believe in powercreep in a PVE single player game lol. There is nothing that requires you to 0 cycle all content, as long as you can clear in the given cycle limit i don't see why it matters. Also... now 1 year into the game there are now so many distinct playstyles with their respective DPS and supports to the point i would consider everyone for the most part pretty balanced.
I definitely feel like units get stronger on average over time, but like you said, every unit can clear within the allotted cycle constraints, so at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. I think HoYo's doing a really good job in keeping things as fair as they can.
I swear in every gacha games out there, they do always selling that weird "problem" and you ended up buying to solve the game problem. In hsr for now, the peak mechanic we've right now like cheap break, non-existent energy (no more tingyun i guess), or built-in implant weakness. It's not about how to beat all content, but how stay relevant with current ridiculous meta and unit requirement, and yeah...sometimes dps check, that's what powercreep about, i mean sure you can beat with old units still winning 10 cycles, but you'll struggle with the current enemies compare with old units, how to counter their mechanic, etc etc.
idk man. my seele cannot even beat MOC…
powercreep does exist, especially in PVE. the amount of effort needed to clear is the powercreep.
im not gonna waste so much effort and countless grinding on artifacts (which in this game, is the worst of the worst) just to be on par or worse than another newly released dps.
Powercreep can exist in pve based, heck even HSR clearly has powercreep issue.
But they did good thing balancing their game difficulty so older characters can still clear it. So as long they keep doing it, powercreep is less issue in HSR.
@@k.h6635with this one, they also set the bar for what char is great too high. easy example, boothill. to be a great break dps, you need to somehow deals big enough damage while enemies are broken. boothill kit is so good, its just making other break dps felt lacking. his kit contains super break for himself and a free crit stat that scale with BE. and the free crit stat is both crit rate and crit damage.
Really good quality, and good comedy too. Keep it up!
After 3 years of 👍,🌀, and 🐼, I'm in the hottest take camp that powercreep is actually necessary to keep the game fresh adn you can't convince me otherwise.
I won't even try to, I think I mostly agree. Too much power creep is bad for the game, no power creep can be stale. Need that Goldilocks spot xd
Seethe
P2W take
I agree BUT NOT to the degree HSR is taking it. There's a difference between the transition from DHIL to Jingliu and Jingliu to Acheron. It's better to integrate powercreep gradually but not suddenly.
HSR needs to take a break with their new character releases. They will catch up to Genshin's number of playable characters and Genshin was released 3 years earlier.
(i didn't watch the video yet so im sorry if i said something you already did)
Honeslty i think the powercreep in this game is so far healthy. Yes units get stronger overtime but the new ones puh older ones into a definitive niche. bronya used to be in virtually every team until ruan mei/sparkle.who pushd her into a blade/jingliu team. but now robin pushed ruan mei into the break niche and soon robin is going to be pushed into a FuA niche. The new powercreeps are temporrary replacements until they get their own niche. at least thats how i see it.
As for dpses theres no excuse they just get disgutingly stronger every patch. and this wprries me caus if this continues older characters are gonna be useless. at spome point theyll have to make the enemies strong enough to match the new characters.
i dont really get why hsr does thiss. Genshin, a game with no competition at all whatsoever manages to avoid powercreep pretty well. I men hu tao i still relevant after like 3 years. so are the og 4* supports. So i dont know why hsr, a game that has actual ompetition, chooses to powercreep chafacters. Genshin also makes more money so obviousl players dont pull for the strongest character
Watch the video, I made it just for you ;)
players DO pull for the strongest character, and Ruan mei is not in the break niche she just happens to be good in that team because shes good in every team. And I agree abt support creep being fine but dps creep not so much, usually older units are buffed via new tailor made supports or enemies so I'm hoping thats how they resolve jing yuan and blade being terribly overshadowed
@@jammed_yam ?????? Did you mistype? It's the other way around - Ruan Mei is the most niche-targeted Harmony we currently have, her whole kit touches on break effect, break efficiency, toughness reduction, break length... and she's the only Harmony to interact with Break in this way. She only happens to be good on all teams bc her buffs are teamwide and not dependent on crit, but break is what she's FOR.
I love how unbiased you try to be while answering highly asked questions - while also having a humorous script xD
I try my best, glad you think it's funny xd
I lost my pity on Jingliu even though I wanted her so bad I have all the Cryo units in Genshin so I planned to do the same in HSR but 50/50 said no also your jokes are still funny, also HSR power creep is definitely real thankfully I know who to pull for (Ruan Mei Havers after Firefly kit leaks) also that Seele isn't pronounced as (zeela) more like (say lay) or (Sae Ley) hope you continue to make great content
I'm glad you still find them funny xd If you're going to try for her on her next run, good luck! She's still a lot of fun!
Nobody pronounces Seele as Sae Ley. Not even in game canonically.
I either caught the edit late or missed it the first time, sorry about the pronunciation xd I just said it as I remembered hearing it. To be honest, it's been stuck in my brain that way for so long, I may not even get around to fixing it, but I promise to try...
@@isaacPc9 that's the Japanese pronounciation, Chinese pronounce it like Xīer so you do you I just wanted to say this cuz HSR's EN Team has been known for butchering the names and so many other things compared to even Genshin's team this is why there is no English voice for Honkai Impact 3rd cuz they know the EN directors will butcher it
@@ALittleSIMPle yeah no problem regarding that I just mentioned that cuz the Japanese and Chinese voices are much more accurate since they have existed before HSR EN which is why I said it, talking to any HI3rd will show that they all pronounce Seele as Sae Ley cuz the See part is pronounced as Sae and Le part is just Ley or Lay, and Chinese just Xīer is fine
Right from the launch I could tell the gameplay design anticipated a lot of powercreep so that things wouldn't get out of hand too fast. If you'd seen the design history of stuff like FGO you'd know how in control Mihoyo is with HSR.
A lot of parallel systems where in place for different metas to cohexist with a slow burn powercreep : crit, break effect, EHR, follow up attacks too. Now we get Acheron that just asks you how many debuff chars are on your team, eventually we could get a char that checks how many buffs you stacked.
As time passes Mihoyo slowly fiddles the system with things like universal break potency (Xueyi and Acheron) and SP regen but not so long ago Argenti started at the top of the meta with all in all a very ordinary kit. The powercreep is very slow considering that HSR pushes out characters faster than Genshin.
On all this powercreep and stuff i only would say that its a pretty huge deal rn after harmony mc some older dps characters can now be used but characters like jing yuan are just not possible for me to use in moc rn without using just 100% of my brain as the amount of enemies and their hp is just too much for a normal relatable jing yuan and with dan il i don't think he fell off for me atleast i pulled for his lightcone also and i am able to clear everything in the game without any trouble even moc 12 in 2-3 cycles he just does fk tone of damage in each turn (150-200k) and when ruan mei ult is active its even more😅 (E0S1) and let me tell you i have acheron, black swan(no kafka😢) and jingliu but i am too lazy all of them are at level 1 and no relics they are just a showpiece in my acc and dan il is carrying me till date planning to pull for firefly as i dont care if she is a good dps or not i just wanna pull for my babygirl and within like 6-7 months she will be the first character i will build.
I'm glad you're still getting mileage out of Dan Heng IL! I hear Daniel Mains are having a blast during this MoC cycle. Also, sorry to hear about your lack of Kafka.
Thumbs up for Firefly O - O)b
Absolutely amazing video. I'm really glad that it's not just about a complain stemmed from not being able to beat a content, or the game being turn-based so powercreep is easy. Those excuses make me not want to watch powercreep discussion videos for the most part, but yours is really nice to listen to. I think what I wanted to say about the powercreep itself has been covered by you and other comments, especially about how this game is team-based, thus judging a character by themself is definitely not enough to determine the severity of powercreep.
When it comes to topics like this, what I find interesting the most is the attitude of the players. Remember when there's an interview with Genshin devs? They said that they didn't want to design another gamemode similar to Spiral Abyss due to excessive anxiety, in which I heard this anxiety somehow was mistranslated and supposed to be strength anxiety (powercreep). And honestly? Both excessive anxiety (mental-related) and strength anxiety are applicable in this HSR community. We can see just how many people are wavering when there's the term 'powercreep' and see new characters indeed performing really good.
It doesn't help that so many Content Creators are advocating about how broken new characters are with the most clickbaity video titles ever. For the uninformed players, they'll just take the information at the face value, not wanting to further evaluate why a character is broken, what are the hidden restrictions, etc. Nothing of that, just a simple 'Broken = Must pull.'
That kind of behavior eventually gets carried over while giving advice for example. We know how some of us really struggle at some content ; we've been there at least once for sure. However, some players instead of giving constructive feedbacks related to whatever the other struggling people have in their arsenal, these players will most likely resort to 'Yeah, just pull this, just pull that.' Okay, I get that limited characters are powerful, but I don't think they're asking for pulling advice. Besides, pulling for characters means that you still have to allocate vertical investment anyway.
Related to that, I've also seen players wanting to pull for Limited DPS after endless struggle. I don't mind them pulling for Supports because they're still universal in some way (I use Ruan Mei in my Hypercarry Jingliu team, and it works). But Limited DPS? All I think of is whether they actually have a team built for said DPS. Kafka for example, if they don't have DoT chars built, then... what is Kafka going to do, lmao.
It brings me to something that most people do - pulling for favorites. Oh God, I still remember a commenter saying that they spent like $1000 for E6 Seele (because favorite character at that time), and they lamented because of Acheron's Ult damage. It's funny though, because for one, the context is already different (Seele has her damage spread into Basic, Skill, and Ult, whereas Acheron has her damage backloaded into her Ult), and for two, if Seele is truly the favorite, then the least they can do is trying to improve her team?
People might say stuff like, "Oh, she still needs limited supports." That kind of argument is so often thrown at mostly 4* and older Limited characters. And here I am, wondering if they realize that it's basically the same for other Meta DPS to reach the desired comfiness. Jingliu somewhat needs Bronya, Blade needs either Sparkle or Bronya or even both, Dan Heng IL needs Sparkle, etc.
And speaking of 4* characters, I think some of us have seen people using 4*-only characters to clear MoC and PF (and hopefully soon AS too). The statement I oftentimes see that's tied to that is 4* characters needing high investment and eidolons. While that is true, that's where priority comes in.
I've said before that priority is important, and this is what I think some people fail to take into account even though it's a powerful weapon to combat the fear of powercreep. Horizontal investment is definitely needed at some point to make your life easier in some gamemodes, like having Himeko and Herta in Pure Fiction is gonna be really helpful (right tools for the right puzzles after all), but then I see some people overdoing the horizontal investment. In other words, they pull too many characters (likely from FOMO and powercreep narration lingering in their head), leaving themselves little to no time to build the characters properly. We're so tight on resources sometimes, so combine it with priority problem, and there you have it, a whole disaster.
One final note is that yesterday, I saw someone using Aventurine vs Gepard as an example of powercreep. Like yeah, Aventurine looks better indeed in terms of giving shields continuously, but... he's limited character and of course - by game balance - has to be at least slightly better than standard character. What did they even expect with that, lmao. That's a poor example of powercreep for me not gonna lie. Comparable? Yes, but as a proof of powercreep is just... no. And don't get me started on Boothill vs Firefly debate weeks ago, this one was straight-up dumb. How does one already doompost an officially released character by comparing them to a not-yet released character bruh...
To end this, I'll say that powercreep is not the main problem for now. It's the attitude/behavior of the players. We have to realize that it all depends on the content as well. Make it too easy and new characters can just solo the game (thus deviating from the main principle of HSR being team-based), and make it too hard and old characters will disappear among the sea of uselessness.
Lastly, good luck on the Firefly / Ruan Mei pulls tomorrow!
I don't even blame people for wanting to complain about it, it's kind of cathartic xd I'm glad you liked the discussion!
I remember the developer interview. I made the same error in thinking they didn't want to cause player anxiety just to find out later they meant something closer to avoiding power creep, and while I don't agree with everything MiHoYo does, I'm pretty glad they've kept it at a manageable level for both Genshin and Star Rail. I certainly agree that anxiety in either regard is applicable to both, too, though.
I also don't blame content creators for calling every new unit broken. It's pretty easy to get the impression when the new endgame content is tailored to show their strengths, but it's definitely not always indicative of the full character experience.
On that note, characters are somewhat bendy in that your experience with them is going to heavily depend on who you pair them with, what you throw them up against, and how much care (Trailblaze Power/Resin) you put into them. You have pretty much all my core thoughts covered and I'm just writing this bit to say I agree, and that I empathize with the E6 Seele guy. Seele is still one of my favorite units, though I felt she was strong and fun without Eidolons (though, I did go for her light cone on her rerun 'cause I like the idea of giving my favorite units nice things). She isn't built the best, but I still use her in Memory of Chaos for fun and she's more than enough for a full clear. I don't think a unit has to be at the top to be fun to pilot.
Regarding the argument that a character needs limited supports, I can kind of see that, but also kind of not. A lot of characters are going to enjoy limited supports, and if they don't now, they probably will later (or at least see a great benefit from one). Your examples are a good point of reference where these DPS were strong at a baseline, then got stronger as more supports released. Strong units coming out now will likely have better supports tailor-made for them in the future, and then they'll be the focus of the same argument, which would be somewhat ironic.
I've seen some 4*-only MoC/PF runs and while impressive, can be a little misleading. High Eidolons and good Relic investment makes it much easier, and there are elements of RNG that can make or break runs (getting crowd controlled when your healer doesn't have a good response, for example). I'm reminded of someone that tries to tackle Memory of Chaos on a no-pull account and whenever he comes to mind, I wish him and his sanity well.
For horizontal investment, it can be tricky in general. I'm sure a lot of it is definitely FOMO-related, but I know some people have a lot of favorites xd So naturally, if they're following the "I only pull for favorites" rule, they're going to be spread a little thin, and that's likely why they're feeling the struggle. Priorities are certainly important and knowing how much you need to put into what can make a world of difference.
Regarding Gepard vs Aventurine, I also find this a little silly. This is why I separated limited units from standard units for my discussion xd But even if we wanted to compare them directly, Gepard still has an edge in some cases. The easiest to note is his ability to freeze things, which can help a lot for stuff like Simulated Universe. Another important strength of his to note is you can pocket his shields for critical moments in combat. Aventurine doesn't have that same luxury, at least not consistently. You can shield on his turn and you can shield if your stacks cap out, but if you roll low on his Ultimate, you might get caught with your pants down. Granted, this is a fairly unlikely scenario, since he seems to be pretty lucky, but it's happened to me on enough occasions where it's left a bad taste in my mouth xd If you wanted to pose the argument that Aventurine is better than Gepard for a sustain unit, I'd agree, but Gepard still functions fine in the right situations (as most 5* units do).
I absolutely do not envy MiHoYo's balancing team.
If you were pulling for Firefly or Ruan Mei, I hope it went well! I lost all of my 50/50s, but after some manly sobbing and eight hours in Divergent Universe, I got there xd
I remember someone on TikTok going feral about powercreep as if all the new supports aren’t making older characters more relevant or newer content being made for more irrelevant characters lol. Honkai star rail and hoyo in general is very good at making any character good if you invest but def have their favorite children that they make better at release
often hesitant to watch these types of vids on info i already know especially from creators i dont know but this vid was amazing man and mad funny pls post more hsr
I can totally understand your reservations. All I can say is I try my best to make things fair and sensical. And hopefully also funny xd
Thanks for watching! I got more videos in mind, but I'm primarily focused on Genshin content. Star Rail stuff gets sprinkled in when I have a fun idea
As a dolphin who owns all characters I have to say that the part I mostly dislike is that I dont really feel like playing older characters anymore. In genshin where I also own everyone I never have this feeling. Sure, Xiao and Ayaka arent the meta defining units they once where, I still clear all content with them and everyone else comfortably and more importantly, they still feel distinct from the others. In starrail, with a few expections almost every character feels really similar to play. So in my brain it will just always feel worse to play argenti than for example acheron, even before I got her eidolons. So I feel more and more like my older characters are starting to collect more and more dust. I dont use Jing Yuan anymore despite having his best team, I dont play luocha anymore because theres almost always someone better for a niche, I dont play silverwolf anymore (and she starts to feel more and more irrelevant with more characters ignoring enemy weaknesses or implanting weaknesses themselves) and I barely use blade anymore (tho hopefully a certain character will change that). Lets not even get started on 4 stars/standard 5 stars.
The only one I still use from the very early days is seele, who while not super strong, feels really unique to play despite her rather simple kit
Totally understandable. Since Star Rail is a turn-based game, it feels a lot more one-dimensional compared to something like Genshin. There's less to do with skill expression and more to do with strategy and planning, so characters often don't feel too different from one another (in a lot of cases, get your speed tuning right, line up your buffs/debuffs, dump ass on something), so a lot of the character's "feel" comes from the animations and the dialogue. At the same time, I imagine this varies from person to person. Characters might not feel as dynamic, but I still use Blade despite his lower damage ceiling 'cause I like hearing a bit of angst every now and then, and I squeeze Silver Wolf in whenever I can 'cause she's a sassy punk and I think it's funny. I am glad to hear you enjoy Seele, I also find her playstyle really engaging. Resurgence procs are fun xd
Thanks for your input, hope you enjoyed the video!
Are newer characters more fun to play, or is your brain just defaulting to the new ones because they all feel the same?
@@ralfian0234 honestly the only new character I think feels really different is acheron and not because of her own gameplay, but because her teams dont just consist of 2 harmony buffers and a sustain
Man I love this video, very real topics touched upon
I will always love Seele, her resurgence and judgement cuts. Nice video man.
Insane seeing blade hit hard here. My blade is lucky to do anything above 25k
Honestly I think the level of powercreep HSR is at is sort of ideal. As much as powercreep is a dirty word online, it's necessary to some extent to keep the game fresh and incentivize players to try new things. If Seele was as good as every character since, you'd have a lot of players who've never stopped playing with JUST Seele and have missed out on a lot of the fun of the game. At the same time, the powercreep is not so strong that it's making new characters compulsory, or old characters irrelevant. Hypercarry Seele can still clear current MoC, and I'm actively using her in PF because I don't have two great teamd for it, to a decent amount of success - I'm usually 10 or 11 starring it, with an account that's got no good AoE units other than Herta.
HSR's powercreep effectively has all the positives of powercreep - constant excitement, new characters are always relevant, players are incentivized to constantly experiment and try new things - without the usual downside, like becoming excessively p2w or making old beloved playstyles useless. If you really love to disappear in a sea of butterflies, illusions of the past then you can still pretty succesfully do that. If I'm bored I'll occasionally still bring my Kafka-FireTB-Sampo-Natasha team from back in the day into MoC and it does perfectly OK.
I agree! I'm actually pretty satisfied with how things are playing out for the moment. No (limited 5 star) character is totally eclipsed by another and every character is viable with enough care and effort. It would be interesting to see some new 4 star units, though. I hope they do March 8th some justice, I've been looking for an excuse to use her xd
There is very little true powercreep in HSR. There is "ease of use" powercreep. Seele continues to have the cheapest E0 0 cycles in the game to this day - her problem is she requires way more skill and game knowledge to function to her full potential in comparison to someone like Acheron. Acheron's damage floor is very close to her ceiling, while for Seele, there is a gaping chasm between her floor and ceiling.
High ceiling DPSs are not acknowledged in HSR's community - people think that since this is a turn-based gacha game, skill or game knowledge has very little effect on a unit's performance whereas this couldn't be further from the truth. This does vary from character to character though - Acheron really doesn't gain much from more game knowledge whereas Seele/Ratio/Boothill can literally 2x their damage if you know what you're doing.
HUH Cheapest? SELEE? with kind of relic would you called Selee E0 0 Cycle Cheep? all support using Wind set with 99.99% Crit rate on Selee and 200% Crit dmg? that is cheep? daaaaamn~ if Mono Quantum count as Cheep since its 4 5* can be apply as well with Acheron or Dan IL E2 with LC which is more cheeper since other character can use *4 and more cheep on farming trace too.
what kind of cheep is we talking here, that really not make any sense 😂
@@Kindi001 It's shit like this that makes me think Seele's one of the most underrated characters in any game ever lmao. Seele can 0 cycle Sam more cheaply than Acheron can, both in terms of units and relics (Seele just needs Bronya whereas Acheron needs at least one limited 5 star unit e.g. SW), relic investment on Seele is cheaper too. You'll need wind set Pela but I don't think wind set's needed on anyone else. Acheron needs higher relic investment than Seele does here. And this is just one example, Seele has the cheapest 0 cycles for the majority of MoCs up to this day.
People say Seele needs high investment to shine because she does, in fact, scale harder with good investment than other DPS units (and also with good gameplay, which most players lack). Other DPSs aren't magically still better than Seele for someone with the right gear who knows what they're doing. It's crazy how this is so hard to believe when it's easy to see on both RUclips and Bilibili.
It's easy to tell why this is the case if you actually think for a bit. Acheron is limited to two ults per cycle regardless of what you do whereas using DDD and wind set well enough allows Seele to get many more turns and ults than she would normally get.
In case it's not obvious at this point, the common tier lists for this game only apply at low investment and go out the window for 0 cycles.
Also mono quantum is and always has been a garbage team comp, it's used for "comfort" but hinders Seele's kit severely. Which again should be obvious for anyone who knows how to play Seele correctly.
I can't believe nobody's talking about the masterfully crafted alliteration at 11:29
Of all the comments I've read, I think you're the first to point it out and I'm glad you noticed ♥
who ever tells you your video is too long has a tiktok brain. great video.
and also regarding the topic: i feel like fights are always managable with any character (with very very few exceptions) its just all about investemnt. which is the name of the game. you either invest money or time...or both. many characters are viable and the more banners you skip the more eidelons youll catch from the banner you finally decide to cash out. its pretty balanced imo
That's me. I have the TikTok brain xd
But yeah, I agree, it's a strategy game that tries to balance itself around a variety of people with different levels of investment. It's hard to cater to everyone, but everyone can get there eventually!
Very VERY good video, and particularily fun, good shit man, will keep watching
Felt like leaving a comment because I did have some good time watching the video xD and also because I did like the points you brought up. Although I will admit I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with some.
Personally, the biggest "powercreep" I felt was not reaaally toward the characters themselves, but at the enemies. They've been getting constantly buffed every time a new MoC/PF drops (and now we are getting the new Apocalyptic Shadow). And this is what truly worries me. It raised me some concern when they did the big first modification on MoC, reducing the amount of cycles to get 3 stars, I believe we had about 16 cycles or so and then it dropped to 10. Looking back, we indeed needed more cycles because of the amount of resources and characters we had, just like you said. I used to play with 2 sustains because I felt really comfortable with this and the large amount of cycles allowed me that... and also, the amount of built characters I had was really low so, yeah. With the 10 cycles thing I felt obligated to play with 1 sustain only, which was a discomfort back then but I really don't mind it now. (Still, I miss the Preservation Trailblazer + March combo xD it was really fun)
But on top of that, now the bosses (and even Elites) have huge HP pools which is kinda insane and it feels really unhealthy imo. This Aven boss MoC was one of my worst experiences so far because of how his gimmicks works. He makes you WASTE an entire cycle worth of actions that you could've used to deal damage, on a heavily RNG based mechanic and you don't have where to run. You lose buffs, you lose damage for... nothing. On top of that, he has too much HP, and then he has a 2 phase?
I mean, it's good to introduce bosses with new mechanics, but in this case it felt just too much of a mistake and unfair play on Hoyo's part, having this kind of enemy that just wastes your cycles (with no countermeasures available) on a cycle based mode, y'know? Like, I cleared the first half in 3 cycles, I even managed to 0-cycle the first wave of 2nd half with my Jingliu, and then Aventurine alone took me nearly 7 cycles, doing the best I could to finish him off. Like wtf is this???
It worries me because in the future, what if they just gives us less cycles to clears like they did in 1.x? If they do that AND keep just increasing hp pools and introducing annoying mechanics, it could be a huge deal... or not. I mean, it's 60 jades for every 3 stars, it might not really be that important in the end. Ever since I started doing MoC, there was only one MoC I couldn't fully clear, and I must say those 60 jades I lost really didn't make a difference. It's still frustrating and a huge strike on your ego, but it hardly could have a massive impact on your pulling plans. I felt bad, but just like I said, those 60 jades I lost did not matter. Even so, I believe it is a topic worth to be discussed and I hope Hoyo pays more attention to it. (I hope we'll never see Aven boss in MoC again lol it was unnecessarily painful)
I could go on and on with my worries about the possible "dangers" on the Breaks mechanics they've playing with but I think I've already rambled a lot lmao it probably became tiresome to read by now. So I'll just say I've always been a huge fan of how the break mechanics work, and I'm happy we have Harmony MC now, not only they are so fun to play and the animations ARE SO COOL, I now feel encouraged to look back at my old units like Sushang and Serval and give them a chance to shine again, and the way the Super Break works does allow it, and I'm really looking forward to it. HMC even feels like a 6 star unit and they are FREE lmao, I feel highly rewarded for invisting on my Caelus (i love him sm!!! he's my main). They REALLY COOKED WELL this time and they deserve every praise for it.
Just like you said, new relics and units and such can keep old characters from falling into the abyss and I agree, I just hope Hoyo can keep handling this well as they've been doing so far with the FuA set, new team synergies and HMC.
That's it I guess, keep up with the good dose of humor xD
If you had the patience to sit through almost 18 minutes of my nonsense, I can spare a few to read some literature.
I did mention enemies growing stronger over time, and I definitely agree that some MoC phases feel overtuned compared to the previous ones. Your point on Aventurine, I mostly agree with. My initial experience with him was also rough. I thought (and still think, but slightly less so, now) he was a little too beefy for this stage of the game, but after a few swings, you kind of learn to work around it (cope?). His dice gimmick absolutely feels like a time-waster, costing you turns/buffs/damage opportunities, but successfully overcoming this gimmick rewards you with a huge damage buff and fully restoring your energy on those units. This increases the value of characters like Pela, who don't need to do damage, only hit multiple targets. You can use Pela's Ult to hit all dice, (hopefully) clear the check, and you get a full energy refund. HoYo absolutely doesn't want you to skip this mechanic because Aventurine's initial attack hits everyone and drains a small amount of energy so you can't use any sneaky tricks like Welt's Imprison to interrupt it. So if you bring certain units like Acheron, who can cleave multiple things, and Aventurine, who can proc his follow up when his Ultimate gives him stacks, you can fairly consistently pass that mechanic and have Ultimates ready to go when Aventurine (boss) is targetable again. The tricky part is knowing whether or not to save them for the next dice gimmick, which I believe he does every time he takes a turn in his second phase, or to nuke him down. If you don't think you have the damage to clear him before his next turn, it's better to save your Ultimates to clear the dice mechanic again. If you're confident he'll die in your next wave of attacks, you can use your refreshed Ultimates and the damage buff granted by his mechanic to kill him. In some of my runs, I've been able to chop off maybe 70-80% of his health in one window, so if you're relatively well-invested, you may only have to deal with this mechanic two or three times. Again, certainly a time-waster of a gimmick, but this kind of leads into your other point where one side takes three cycles and the other takes seven. It's definitely a humbling experience, but it's done that way by design, since it's supposed to be endgame (and ideally challenging) content. You might find Aventurine takes a long time, but it's balanced by the first side being significantly easier (as long as you're playing to the strengths of your units).
It's possible MiHoYo will cut the cycle count down again in the future, but I'm a little skeptical of this (ie: pls don't xd) I do MoC on my account and my friends' accounts, and my friends are much more casual in how they approach the game. I think the level of difficulty I face in piloting their units feels pretty fair. It makes me squeeze my brain and shift strategies around to reach certain goals, and I think that's probably the way MiHoYo intended for it to be. That being said, some people are definitely not into this game for that kind of experience, and that's fair, which is why HoYo also locks a pretty small amount of Jades behind those MoC/PF thresholds. Like you said, losing out on the 60 Jades didn't really hurt you, but it does uncomfortably fondle the ego a bit. At the end of the day, it's just a game, and the challenges imposed by said game aren't fully indicative of anything like "skill issue". Sometimes luck is a factor (Aventurine boss is literally a luck check sometimes xd), and whether or not you want to continue testing your luck can be more of a test of patience. Sometimes the 60 Jades aren't worth it, and stressing over something as trivial as 60 Jades isn't worth the raised blood pressure xd
Regarding Break/Super Break, I definitely think it's an interesting mechanic that Break (the stat and the characters that utilize it) needed. It honestly feels slightly undercooked to me, but it has a lot of room to grow. As an introduction with Harmony MC, it's good, but I feel like to maintain relevance and consistency, it needs more units that can do things like Ruan Mei does (extensions and Break efficiency). I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what units or adjustments (Relics or otherwise) they implement to make Break great.
Glad you liked the humor, thanks for watching and thanks for your thoughts!
this marks the first video i see from your channel.
it progresses real quick.. me likey
Thanks for watching! I hope you enjoy your stay!
Idk, I've invested like 4 times more resin into Seele than Jingliu but, even with trash relics I took from Herta, Jingliu simply deals like 3 times more damage on average.
I have to use Seele with Silver Wolf, Sparkle and Fu Xuan (3 5* of the same element) just to make her viable.
Its so easy to get jingliu to 100% of her power just by using her skill twice.
meanwhile seele needs to either defeat the enemies or ult to even get her buffs, try using tingyun with seele instead of silver wolf, you should be able to see better performance by just ulting more with seele.
Interesting stuff, I started at 1.0 but didn't look into the meta til I had been playing for 6 months, so I missed a lot of the consensus that theoretically I should have known about lol, so comparisons like this help me put it into perspective.
Also dude you talk so fast I'm having trouble following it! Setting the video to 0.75 speed is just a bit too slowed down but at least I can process the words lmao
16:35 - My problem with this argument is that HSR has very little room for strategy due to the simple gameplay, with the only real way to "get good" is to get better characters or farm like crazy for perfect Relics
love your edits, especially this part 10:05
Your editing is pretty slick keep it up man
Thanks, I try my best!
The quick wips in commentary and good overall vid got me subbed😊
Thanks, I hope you enjoy your stay!
This is really off topic but thank you for the subtitles!! It's hard for me to process stuff sometimes so it's nice to be able to read what you're saying lol
I'm glad you find them helpful! Though, I could learn to speak a little slower xd
@@ALittleSIMPle NOOO not for me!! personally it's just the right speed but maybe it's because my attention spans shit too hahaha
@@bonbuns6881 I don't even blame you, I couldn't tell you how many times I caught myself lost in zero thought when I was trying to put this video together xd
The best advice:
NEVER PULL WEAPONS
NEVER PULL EIDOLONS
Then you can keep getting new units and ride the wave
Tbh Bronya can work with high SP consuming units like IL if you speedtune her properly - bonus if you have her at E1S1 or higher
I swear in every gacha games out there, they do always selling that weird "problem" and you ended up buying to solve the game problem. In hsr for now, the peak mechanic we've right now like cheap break, non-existent energy (no more tingyun i guess), or built-in implant weakness. It's not about how to beat all content, but how stay relevant with current ridiculous meta and unit requirement, that's what powercreep about, i mean sure you can beat with old units still winning 10 cycles, but you'll struggle with the current enemies compare with old units, how to counter their mechanic, is it still relateable
If you can still beat all the content, would you say those characters that are clearing aren't relevant? I agree there is power creep and that older units might not push content as quickly, but this tends to come and go. One example is the current MoC phase, where I brute-forced it with Jingliu. Certainly not an ideal matchup, but it was still done within three cycles. Dan Heng IL mains are having a ball right now, though, and he was her predecessor. All that's to say characters will rise and fall in usage just due to the enemies that are thrown at us. In terms or relatability, I like to think I have a pretty decent understanding at different levels of account investment. I play my account pretty actively, but I also play on friends' accounts where they take breaks for extended periods of time, missing opportunities like events, pulls, banners, and just dumping Trailblaze Power on building their units, and I think the points I push in Memory of Chaos and Pure Fiction are pretty reasonable. It can certainly be a struggle, but there are a lot of factors that can contribute to why a player struggles, so it's hard to relate to everyone's specific situations. It's also important to remember these game modes are endgame content, so they're not supposed to be trivial. Game balancing is hard xd
As others have mentioned, slowing the talking speed just a tad would make it a lot easier to absorb and enjoy, but regardless I found it to be a fun video that explores something nearly all games face nowadays - Powercreep. I quit MTG, Magic the Gathering, just because it no longer felt skill based anymore (which sucks because I made money off it and wished to keep following the Pro Tour life.) Thanks for the laughs though and solid info - glad RUclips directed me to your channel :D *notably Braxophone, a popular HSR RUclipsr speaks just as fast which I find unfortunate for he provides great content* We are who we are though so please take no offense by the comment for the content was commendable and deserves a new sub : )
I apologize for the talking speed, going too slow desyncs my brain orz I'm working on it, I swear. Glad you still found the video entertaining, though!
+1 for fellow MTG player ♥ Though, I also quit many years ago. Tournaments were fun, but I ran out of friends to go with xd