Making STRONG shelves with Topology Optimization
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2019
- A project, that's fun, educational, cool-looking, and actually useful! What more could you want?
We're making topology-optimized floating shelf brackets today 👍
Grab the design www.prusaprinters.org/prints/...
Why the topology optimized brackets weren't screwed to studs (and other questions answered)!
• Why the topology optim...
Materials used/shown:
MK3 go.toms3d.org/MK3Ass
Proto-pasta TOM filament go.toms3d.org/ProtoTom/
DAS Filament Multicolor Galaxy www.dasfilament.de/filament-s...
Elegoo Mars go.toms3d.org/ElegooMars
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Наука
How about a topology-optimized BIKE ? I wanna see that alien bike.
It would break
@@1248erik no
Yes!
That was my first thought as well, I had been dreaming of it since the '90s when doing solid modeling and mountain biking.
@@Markfps yes. topology optimisation doesn't just remove unnecessary material, it also removes strength from it. its called optimisation because you're saving more on not spending that extra material because you don't need all the strength. in bikes, you need the strength. even then, bikes can break (if you dont go into dumb detail about what its made of). so no - you're wrong.
Would be nice if the algorithm were aware of fdm printing and that you could configure layer orientation, then it could account for layer to layer weakness...
Stefan and Thomas talked in one of their meltzone podcast episodes i think :)
People have been asking for anisotropic materials for a good while. I don't know if the'll ever do it. The usual response is use autodesk inventor if you need that.
@@dibblethwaite I've looked into anisotropic materials for fiberglass composites but haven't found much for FEA software. It's (much) more complex and I think you need to know more about structural engineering.
Generative us doing that.byou can define a bunch of materials and different manufacturing processes (including fdm printing) and the generated design takes this into account.
Same for the infill!
But that sounds like a really hard problem.
I would assume it would be easier with generative design, because it should be easier to predict properties of synthesized parts than parts where a wall moves when you remove something.
Hmmm well if it is a linear property maybe you could just scale one dimension before the optimization and scale it back afterwards.
For future etymologists:
This may be the first use of the term "analog documents".
2019, folks.
I was recently discussing how the term, "paperwork" now often refers to online forms (specifically forms required for tax, insurance, rental applications, and other formal purposes) but often requires no actual paper.
Wing mirror. Dash board. Trunk. English (and no doubt, all other languages) is full of words divorced from their original meaning. This is how it happens.
@@questionablecommands9423 funny, because we have been talking soft copies and actual paper-work as long as i can remember. Even though things are digital here in India there's just too much paper . Well we will someday look back at it too.
Analog is still electronic, though.
For example, old TVs, radios and video tape players & recorders are electronic devices but they are analog, not digital.
A better term would be "physical documents".
@@hrgwea i still have lots of electronic analog stuff in my house
they all break at the unsimulated part , where it attaches to the wall
yea the connection seems to be the weak point on this. Seems like it might fail from tear out due to shearing if overloaded, or possibly bearing if plastic is somewhat malleable.
Thing is, did he use a stud finder to more securely place the shelves?
Scout2 it does not look like it lol, he just put it into the drywall.. he's clearly not informed on house work much, hes put his brain towards 3-D printing
I wonder if the software take into account fixed points, or only cares about load and shape.
@@greenthizzle4 I think most houses in Germany are built different from America. they don't use wood... it seems to be mostly masonry. If you notice Germans always mock American house construction methods
Those are some beautiful shelf baskets! Awesome work, Tom.
They are beautiful but they gonna collect a LOT of dust
@Zygy __ compressed air will just throw dust elsewere
They're pretty hideous but the science is beautiful
@@revertfpv2928 All you need is a tissue and some water. Done. Something like Denture tablets in water are not corrosive at all and clean stuff very well. Always use them for my keyboards over Iso or anything else.
But youre using topology optimalisation and then a hollow print.....
But did you see him stand on the shelve...
@@TonyRios But you could have done that with a straight beam bracket, that weighed 1/6 as much.
This is poorly designed.
@@operator8014 But it looks 1/6 as cool
@@EngineeringTechnikcom Not wrong. Actually completely correct. You may now leave this conversation that you are not qualified to speak on. Thank you.
@@operator8014
Says the person thinking their opinion is a factual statement.
me: "youtube, why you recommending this? this is not my contents"
youtube: "umm, it's 3 am?"
me: "alright i take it"
totally.
its 3am again, youtubes doing its thing- clicked on this ~3:10am
It's literally just about to hit 3 am here in the land of Kiwi. Your comment hits too close to home.
This is what it would look like if the Covenant had shelves.
You just nailed what my subconscious mind was thinking the whole time, it's definitely the purple haha
halooooooooooooooooooo
except the covenant would never ruin their shelves with white paint.
Great video and I like that you've shown your iterative process. That you have not used the MMU but simply painted the parts is great, too. And the result is awesome.
This would be a really interesting design to do an investment casting of and get aluminum brackets.
Saw this video in 2019 and just came here to thank you. It showed me a whole new (and very interesting) world that I didn't knew about at the time.
Now I'm really happy, as I get to make a living solving problems with finite element analysis every day.
Thank you so much, this video changed my life for the better.
Excellent way of teaching the 3d printing community how to use simulation and topology for home-driven projects :D
Keep up the good work!
I have to say that this has to be one of the prettiest functional print I've seen (prolly one of the prettiest prints I've seen in total). Thank you for the STL file. Cant wait to get into Fusion 360 and topology studies.
Interesting how the supports resemble tree branches
interesting but not surprising: biology has been doing topology optimisation for millions of years. Trees are very, very efficient structures.
For me those resemble bones. Bones grow where they are under stress. I don't know if that applies for trees but I suspect yes. It's all literally runtime topological optimization :P
@@mastermati773 bingo -> smaht
brilliant job Tom. You keep er up. You where responsible for me getting into the FDM greatness, and may long we continue to see you around. Slainte
I absolutely love the minimalistic look of your shelves
Great video and just as professionally made as always.
In Rhinos Grasshopper there is an extension called tOpos which runs topology optimizations localy.
Buchsbaumschere what is rhinos grasshopper
@@justasingledronevideo2583 Rhino is a CAD package, and Grasshopper is an algorithmic modeling plugin for Rhino. A commercial license for Rhino 6 costs $995.
Ryan Willis that doesn’t sound like an optimal alternative to F360 if it’s free
I also use Rhino, it's a much better option and comes with much more functionality then the limited subscriptions of fusion 360
@@sparkyferret550 I try to avoid Autodesk whenever possible lol
This is the kind of super cool stuff that sets you apart from others Tom. Love it.
Those shelf brackets and the process you used to make them is super cool. Really nice and they look great with that filament. 👍😎🇦🇺
I would like a strength comparison between the smaller topology optimised brackets and a similar (roughly equivalent) squarish design printed in a more optimal orientation (on its side)
I assume that Thomas was going for a more organic design. One for which generative design is better suited, but requires cloud credit expense.
I'm guessing squarish design won. the purpose of topology *optimised* is to use the least materials to achieve the necessary strength, as oppose to make it stronger than conventional shape
Without a doubt the best looking shelf brackets i've ever seen, great tutorial Tom
What a beautiful design! Thank you for providing this for free.
Awesome brackets, Thomas! Well, optimised and beautiful too!!
Pretty neat!
I don't think I'd have painted the models. At least not any of the curved sections. The colour gradient seems to work well with the organic shape.
Good to know that 3D prints are stronger than modern houses
Thank you so much for this video! I was tempted to just grab your design (it is awesome) but I think I'll spend the extra time now and make my own and learn while I'm at it! Thanks for the inspiration!
Gut auf den Punkt gebracht was mit Topologieoptimierung möglich ist. Und ein schön- kreatives Projekt damit gemacht.
Great Videos Thomas!! Your my go-to guy for everything 3D.
youtube: making something spectacularly complicated
me: using a triangle and doing just fine
What an excellent video. It's so refreshing to see your passion showcased so professionally, precisely, and efficiently. Your work is greatly enjoyed and appreciated. :) I love sharing your videos with my students.
Always great videos and useful information. Thanks Thomas!
I died a little bit when I saw those hardwood boards go from being beautiful to painted white 😨
Yeah. That was barbaric.
Same! Saw the beautiful wood and thought 'he spent extra for this project' then came the paint. :(
Sadness level maxed
I liked the look of it.
I would have used a filament that was wood pulp-based painted the edges on the boards and supports, and tied it all together that way.
in the next episode Thomas will print walls for his home
Don't tempt me
Entire walls - too big. But small, topology-optimized interlocking bricks would be viable.
People are building houses out of plastic bottles and cans - why not out of 3-D printed bricks?
Thomas Sanladerer you need to print some studs for inside the drywall so your not screwing into plain drywall
Jake Mitch drywall anchors are perfectly suitable for light to medium duty shelving. Most of the crappy ones are rated for 50lbs per anchor.
@@greenthizzle4 It isn't drywall. It is actual material worth building a house from, a type of aerated concrete block which is the internal insulation, with a brick or solid concrete outer skin. Waterproof and light, and cheap, and no timber to rot or get eaten. The only downside is you need the correct fixings if putting up shelves!
Your brackets are gorgeous. Excellent work and presentation.
I completely agree, they look fantastic. I will be giving it a try as soon as time allows.
I neither have ideas about mechanical engineering nor about Autodesk, but I have found this video very understandable, interesting and reasonable. Keep up the good work!
Very good video Thomas! One note (as Stefan from CNC Kitchen also points out) -- a big issue with this approach is that FDM 3D printed parts are anisotropic, so results should be taken with a grain of salt (or large factor of safety). I would be very interested in seeing comparison results in this regard between FDM and resin prints and their predicted vs. measured failure loads.
Also the way he set up his simulation; he only constrained where the countersunk screws were and didn't add a planar constraint where the bracket touches the wall. That's probably why the program almost immediately lightweighted that section and didn't connect any ribs to it.
And then he printed it with infill, which is definitely different than what the program was calculating for.
It's a cool way to get very organic looking parts or to visualize your load paths, but I wouldn't trust it without a big safety factor.
@@timbarrett4580 it's a gimmick. I can't imagine this optimization being useful for any manufacturing process
@@Jaze2022wrong
I rarely give a like out, but because you shared the file and did all that testing, it was the least I could do. Great Job!
Just came across this on my "recommended" list. Very cool. Very inspiring. Now I know what I want for Christmas. Subscribed!
That Multicolor Galaxy PLA is really nice.
Looks similar to the "waste" filament i got, that has a slow merging discoloration, which happens during colour changes in filament production. Great to see an other version with more significant, "forced" colour changes
Now I wish I wasn't colourblind
Wow, Autodesk is such a phenomenal racket. Remember when people were just upset over how expensive perpetual licenses of CAD software were?
Wow this is really cool, topology optimization looks so organic (human or alien) and strong. Definitely liked and subbed, thanks for sharing this process!
The color combo looks awesome
Those look sick. Great job
Thanks!
I'd like to see a stress test comparing a topology-optimized shelf bracket with more conventional 3D-printed brackets, to see exactly how much more weight it would allow it to hold before failing/sagging.
I don't think this allows *more* weight then the full brick if that's what you're asking. It's obviously weaker, but it takes out a huge percentage of the material for an insignifant strength loss.
almarc the whole point of topology optimization is to reduce used material while maintaing the same properties as the original structure.
@@ggeorgo555 I'm not a certified professional of course, but it can't remain "the same". It can only be 99% or something as strong. Unless you remove some bump on the side that literally carried no weight on it whatsoever.
@@almarc
I didn't mean testing whether it was stronger than the full brick.
By "conventional" brackets, I meant like, 3D-print the kinds of brackets one might find in a store. One that's literally just an L-shape, one that's a triangle shape (L with a single crossbeam), etc. The topology optimized bracket, judging by its appearance, would actually have slightly more material than these.
Sure, topology optimization is built for retaining mostly the same strength while massively reducing material used, but another way to look at it is that it can massively increase strength with only a small increase in material used, depending on what is used as the input shape. A bracket with 90% of the strength of a solid square block is likely going to be stronger than a bracket with 100% of the strength of a hollow triangle.
Great video!! Thanks for the tips! Those shelves look soo clean! Love what you did!
Neat experiment, lots of lessons learned. Knowing how to mount in different wall mediums is KEY. Also looks like you used the failed mount in the end, I'd recommend swapping it out!
I used this same process to make a stronger version of my RC car chassis, worked amazing! Love Fusion 360
That sounds cooool
I'd like to see it redone with the top wider than the bottom where it connects to the wall.
Since that was the failure point, and it doesn't have to be straight and square to save material or make it easier to produce.
Love learning new stuff, thanks Tom for showing me this feature
That was a freaking awesome video!! Love your work🤜🏼🤛🏼🍀😎
I am so excited for this tech to see wider adoption. The algorithms used studied things like bone structure during their creation.
There's not many options as of yet, but I expect that to change. This kind of optimization almost spells the end for what we think are straight lines. Our world is going to get far more curvy!
i would assume the point of setting a weight in the topology optimizer is for if you have multiple loads and want to configure their relative forces
Watching this video in great anticipation on how to optimise the simple shelf bracket, just to discover 3 minutes in that you just wanted to make the look cool and throw all the engineering and material science out the door!!
Gets me even more intrigued about getting a 3D printer. Thanks for the video.
The more complex our algorithms and processes get the more and more they mimic nature.
I would rather say that nature and simulation converge on the same optimum.
@@tombratfred3102 I would argue that evolution is a good optimisation algorithm which ran for a long time and found almost optimal solution for some problems, and machines are finding good solution to these problems now
@@forloop7713 This is exactly what I implied ;)
Great video, Tom! TIL the difference between topology optimization and generative design
That's really cool. The white accents on the holders and the natural top of the boards.
Love the brackets they look so organic
How is maintenance on them? I'm imagining they trap dust in their phalanges.
You could add a solid layer (maybe glass) to the sides.
try to imagine trying to clean a xenomorph hive or polish the furniture in Giger Bar
I hate it when I get dust in my phalanges.
That bottom part of that piece hes holding at 11:22 aint looking so hot . But then it gets glossed over like nothing happened so im like :V
and I thought it was funny that he was like "what is this...foam concrete" and if he means drywall then it's amazing that someone with such specialized knowledge doesn't know about drywall. It's great to see examples of how experts are just normal people in areas other than their field. Like how Ben Carson is a brain surgeon but that doesn't mean his politics are good.
@@david102994 hey you numbnuts, do you understand this person is german? he probably speaks english better than you.
Most likely he printed another after the anchor failed to hold.
Not blaming the design of the 3D printed part for the failure of the anchor.
david102994 in europe houses are made of bricks and concrete, but sometimes if youre unlucky you can hit a hollow or foamy part that just doesnt hold. We dont have drywalls. He just hit a bad spot. Happens to the best of us
@@r3dluff idk where you're from, but drywall is pretty common in sweden.
Those turned out super cool, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the Bosch ad! Oh and playing with Topology Optimization :)
If you could place the top screw lower, you could make a flat surface and print them upside down. Maybe a bit harder to install them.
I'm pretty sure that PLA under load creeps over time, which would not be good. It looks //great// though.
Oh man that filament, I really like those colors.
They have a very interesting shape. It looks organic and tree-like!
Could you compare the strength of these to one that you optimize yourself by intuition with the same amount of material?
Tom: Says the guy who lives in an IKEA catalog
IKEA: 👍
Reminds me about fight club.
Very cool:) form and function. Love the organic look of it. This reductive process is what stone masons/sculptors use too
All the aesthetic design choices are perfect, IMO!
I think topology optimization is mostly good for solid components (as in, not FDM printed). When it comes to strength and lower material use, at least.
I've noticed, that you can sometimes actually save material cost / weight by removing holes, as they will basically replace some (low) infill with perimeters. On the other hand, they can increase part strength. And look cool. The most important thing.
2:30 Wait, they charge you for running simulations on a software you've already paid for, using store credits??
Have micro transactions found their way into even 3d engineering software?
What is wrong with this world
you're paying to rent compute resources to run the simulation. you could do the same thing at home if you had a supercomputer
@@TouchedAlot You don't need a supercomputer to run such simulation. Engineers at my work run simulations on 16 core PCs at work with no problem on other software. They are just milking people for money.
jus because your computer is a potatoe PC doesnt mean modern computers are sUpEr cOmPuTeRs
most people don't have lots of computers ready and available to throw at simulations. there is no reason to buy, configure and maintain lots of computers yourself if all you want to do is run simulations because you can just rent the amount of computing power you need on demand
As others have said, it's not a microtransaction. You're paying for their server time to run it on their computers. One reason given for them not allowing us to run these simulations on our own computers is that it would require them giving out the code for how to do it.
Great video! The multi color filament you used makes for a neat end result.
Thanks for the STL! I'm going to try these out.
"teach you about topology optimization, while you're at it". Not really, it only teaches you how to use Fusion 360 to use their topology optimization tool. (Which is also good, of course)
it teaches you the essentials, go do an engineering degree if you want to learn it properly
wasted $100 on simulation
has sharp edge on highest stress area
10/10 engineering
Wasted 15 minutes watching a video.
Makes a comment about spending $100 when he says multiple times he's using the free option.
10/10 youtube viewer.
0/10 listening comprehension
@@fayenotfaye wasted 15 seconds reading reply to comment
Wastes 15 seconds writing reply about wasting 15 seconds replying to a comment
me: wastes 5 minutes figuring out reply to reply about wasting 15 minutes watching a video
me: next level youtube replier
@@KyleDB150 at this point my math skills aren´t sufficient enough to leave a good reply
You're all 10/10 people in my book. You beautiful strangers.
echt cool Tom, die sehen super aus und das video war hoch interessant! danke!
Really amazing solution, a design classic!
Question: Does the simulation understand the model is full of hollow cavities? Or did you print them at 100% infill? How does this work with the material properties related to FDM?
It does not. You can shell your part before doing an optimization. Maybe a subject for a follow up video?
Simulating FDM 3D printed parts is nearly impossible - between the intricate detail that is infill and the anisotropy that layer adhesion causes, it would be a massive simulation project unless you over-simplify the model to the point where it's only a very rough approximation.
@@MadeWithLayers hmmm, I wonder if simulating a vertical slice of layers would be enough, the layers simulated in 2d across the center for adhesion and compression applied to the rest as a value of its tensile and compression strength might be enough to be 'close enough'. Making parts function under compression through layers and extension only through horizontally printed loops is tricky... its tricky, its tricky tricky tricky. Uh.
I've done simulations like this in Fusion before, but I'm always confused what material to select. I wonder which material would most closely simulate PLA, and if there's maybe something that can be done relating to force vectors to compensate for the weakness between layers.
...try wood, maybe - as it has a similar directional strength profile? Cross-grain should approximate layers shearing pretty well, for the purpose of calculations?
This is a next level video! Thanks!
Amazing how organic it looks.
But the real question is, how did it print so well without supports!
First off all: great video! Awesome shelves! Then to my question: why gyroid infill? While cool to watch and fast to print, it's not strong at all. No two lines really rest on top of each other, so no load bearing compared to triangular or grid. I know your shelves were more than strong enough, but how about some experiments with this? Or should I poke Steffan with it? 😜
Definitely a topic worth investigating! Gyroid is supposed to be the ultimate (isotopic) infill pattern, so I use it whenever print time isn't super crucial.
Amazing... i love when things has functionality. great idea !
Pretty amazing that using a huge amount of math and simulation we get a structure that is like tree branches and bone structure. Nature and evolution themselves are an algorithm for optimization. Awesome video!
Did you figure out what settings make more fingers show up? I was inspired to give this a shot, and made a 80% similar shape to test shape optimization. Sometimes I get a finger or 2, but...mostly it solves without much interesting geometries. Are there any secrets or tips to force more interesting solve geometry? Currently experimenting, but it takes a while for each solve : /
had you found out how?
"Its 25 Bucks to run one Cloud Job"
- Wow thats crazy!
"Its 100 more Bucks to get the result to your PC"
- WHAT? How is that not included in the initial price?"
"Its both on top on a yearly subscription you have to pay anyway for"
- "WT........... Ok I am out guys"
If we lower the price then people will actually use it!
i'm sure that there will be some open source alternatives at some point... at least i hope so... i would never support garbage like this, no matter how "professional" it is
This video looks crisp. Congratulations on lighting
Excellent video, Thomas - top quality production with amazing content. Subscribed.
Welcome!
you need to mount those to studs in the wall, anchoring to the drywall is usually a bad idea
It is not drywall. He literally says they are construction blocks. Not many countries build houses like the US does. They're still the wrong fixings though ;)
@@MarkHanford He literally has no idea what kind of wall it was... It was most likely a plaster wall. The can withstand quite some force when plugged correctly but it is always best to find a stud.
Drywall anchors are rated for like 50lbs + per anchor, and that’s for the crappiest ones.
@@joshuawiens1344 good luck putting a drywall anchor into masonry block. That's even more worryingly wrong than the slightly wrong fixings Thomas used.
lol concrete not drywall...
Dang!... I JUST found a use for topology optimization and now they've removed it from the free version
Awesome video! I want to make some shelves now. Those looks super cool and I've always wanted to play around with the simulations in fusion
Nice! I have learned something from you again! Thanks!
Strength is not rigidity. This type of topology optimization of this
sort can only ever optimize rigidity, typically at the *cost* of
strength. It specifically computes forces * displacement because the
math allows you do to this very easily, and inexpensively. Choose to
optimize anything else, and the problem becomes thousands of times more
expensive, requiring completely different approaches.
It works though....
@@thealienrobotanthropologist agreed, a simple right angle triangle would have been the strongest with the least material. All of the support for the shelf is adding zero strength here because the shelf is self supporting. It needs braced on the outside and at the wall, that is it.
@@thealienrobotanthropologist Please upload a video that shows how you would design such a beautiful piece.
For someone who isn't artistic this method is fast and simple and apparently it works.
@@JamesSeedorf and a right angle triangle looks just exactly the same like the one your neighbor has. If you want your apartment look like an Ikea catalog, just buy the brackets. If you want something unique the video shows how its done.
@@JamesSeedorf This is incorrect, the topology optimization also specifies a right angle brace. In this video he left in dynamic curves as limiters on the outside so a more "natural" shape would form.
Also rigidity is the objective for this application. Strength is based on the slicer methods.
Too bad that TO is not available in free version of F360 nowadays.
Very nice presentation, editing. Very cool Mr Tom 👏👏 💝
Props to Pressreset for editing this one!
Hello, its my first time to this channel! Well done on a great video. I am really attracted to seeing modern design appear to follow nature. Topology optimisation looks so alien and modern. Very cool stuff. Imagine when they start to build buildings and things like this!!