Making STRONG shelves with Topology Optimization

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  • Опубликовано: 14 янв 2025

Комментарии • 1,4 тыс.

  • @jonstenSE
    @jonstenSE 5 лет назад +1912

    Would be nice if the algorithm were aware of fdm printing and that you could configure layer orientation, then it could account for layer to layer weakness...

    • @StephanWahlen
      @StephanWahlen 5 лет назад +7

      Stefan and Thomas talked in one of their meltzone podcast episodes i think :)

    • @dibblethwaite
      @dibblethwaite 5 лет назад +49

      People have been asking for anisotropic materials for a good while. I don't know if the'll ever do it. The usual response is use autodesk inventor if you need that.

    • @dejayrezme8617
      @dejayrezme8617 5 лет назад +14

      @@dibblethwaite I've looked into anisotropic materials for fiberglass composites but haven't found much for FEA software. It's (much) more complex and I think you need to know more about structural engineering.

    • @WilkoVehreke
      @WilkoVehreke 5 лет назад +8

      Generative us doing that.byou can define a bunch of materials and different manufacturing processes (including fdm printing) and the generated design takes this into account.

    • @neur303
      @neur303 5 лет назад +7

      Same for the infill!
      But that sounds like a really hard problem.
      I would assume it would be easier with generative design, because it should be easier to predict properties of synthesized parts than parts where a wall moves when you remove something.
      Hmmm well if it is a linear property maybe you could just scale one dimension before the optimization and scale it back afterwards.

  • @Mattakattak
    @Mattakattak 5 лет назад +3316

    How about a topology-optimized BIKE ? I wanna see that alien bike.

    • @1248erik
      @1248erik 5 лет назад +48

      It would break

    • @Markfps
      @Markfps 5 лет назад +301

      @@1248erik no

    • @aaronbell5994
      @aaronbell5994 5 лет назад +6

      Yes!

    • @memoryerror
      @memoryerror 4 года назад +41

      That was my first thought as well, I had been dreaming of it since the '90s when doing solid modeling and mountain biking.

    • @ivoandricic1088
      @ivoandricic1088 4 года назад +65

      @@Markfps yes. topology optimisation doesn't just remove unnecessary material, it also removes strength from it. its called optimisation because you're saving more on not spending that extra material because you don't need all the strength. in bikes, you need the strength. even then, bikes can break (if you dont go into dumb detail about what its made of). so no - you're wrong.

  • @CNCKitchen
    @CNCKitchen 5 лет назад +327

    Those are some beautiful shelf baskets! Awesome work, Tom.

    • @revertfpv2928
      @revertfpv2928 4 года назад +2

      They are beautiful but they gonna collect a LOT of dust

    • @revertfpv2928
      @revertfpv2928 4 года назад +1

      @Zygy __ compressed air will just throw dust elsewere

    • @DrRiq
      @DrRiq 4 года назад +3

      They're pretty hideous but the science is beautiful

    • @MaxC_1
      @MaxC_1 3 года назад +1

      @@revertfpv2928 All you need is a tissue and some water. Done. Something like Denture tablets in water are not corrosive at all and clean stuff very well. Always use them for my keyboards over Iso or anything else.

  • @ashwalk85
    @ashwalk85 5 лет назад +698

    For future etymologists:
    This may be the first use of the term "analog documents".
    2019, folks.

    • @questionablecommands9423
      @questionablecommands9423 5 лет назад +42

      I was recently discussing how the term, "paperwork" now often refers to online forms (specifically forms required for tax, insurance, rental applications, and other formal purposes) but often requires no actual paper.

    • @smorris12
      @smorris12 5 лет назад +23

      Wing mirror. Dash board. Trunk. English (and no doubt, all other languages) is full of words divorced from their original meaning. This is how it happens.

    • @cryonim
      @cryonim 4 года назад +1

      @@questionablecommands9423 funny, because we have been talking soft copies and actual paper-work as long as i can remember. Even though things are digital here in India there's just too much paper . Well we will someday look back at it too.

    • @hrgwea
      @hrgwea 4 года назад +15

      Analog is still electronic, though.
      For example, old TVs, radios and video tape players & recorders are electronic devices but they are analog, not digital.
      A better term would be "physical documents".

    • @jonc8074
      @jonc8074 4 года назад +1

      @@hrgwea i still have lots of electronic analog stuff in my house

  • @betabenja
    @betabenja 5 лет назад +1676

    they all break at the unsimulated part , where it attaches to the wall

    • @JT-ir6vw
      @JT-ir6vw 5 лет назад +117

      yea the connection seems to be the weak point on this. Seems like it might fail from tear out due to shearing if overloaded, or possibly bearing if plastic is somewhat malleable.

    • @scout2369
      @scout2369 5 лет назад +147

      Thing is, did he use a stud finder to more securely place the shelves?

    • @greenthizzle4
      @greenthizzle4 5 лет назад +228

      Scout2 it does not look like it lol, he just put it into the drywall.. he's clearly not informed on house work much, hes put his brain towards 3-D printing

    • @danilooliveira6580
      @danilooliveira6580 5 лет назад +16

      I wonder if the software take into account fixed points, or only cares about load and shape.

    • @cyan933
      @cyan933 5 лет назад +188

      @@greenthizzle4 I think most houses in Germany are built different from America. they don't use wood... it seems to be mostly masonry. If you notice Germans always mock American house construction methods

  • @HeyMaruniko
    @HeyMaruniko 4 года назад +334

    me: "youtube, why you recommending this? this is not my contents"
    youtube: "umm, it's 3 am?"
    me: "alright i take it"

    • @CafeSarcasmo
      @CafeSarcasmo 4 года назад

      totally.

    • @Leafyfpv
      @Leafyfpv 4 года назад

      its 3am again, youtubes doing its thing- clicked on this ~3:10am

    • @R4V3-0N
      @R4V3-0N 4 года назад

      It's literally just about to hit 3 am here in the land of Kiwi. Your comment hits too close to home.

  • @kriskeersmaekers233
    @kriskeersmaekers233 5 лет назад +532

    But youre using topology optimalisation and then a hollow print.....

    • @TonyRios
      @TonyRios 5 лет назад +76

      But did you see him stand on the shelve...

    • @operator8014
      @operator8014 5 лет назад +194

      @@TonyRios But you could have done that with a straight beam bracket, that weighed 1/6 as much.
      This is poorly designed.

    • @henrychan720
      @henrychan720 5 лет назад +151

      @@operator8014 But it looks 1/6 as cool

    • @operator8014
      @operator8014 5 лет назад +40

      @@EngineeringTechnikcom Not wrong. Actually completely correct. You may now leave this conversation that you are not qualified to speak on. Thank you.

    • @Psyrecx
      @Psyrecx 5 лет назад +49

      @@operator8014
      Says the person thinking their opinion is a factual statement.

  • @Mattvieir
    @Mattvieir 3 года назад +1

    Saw this video in 2019 and just came here to thank you. It showed me a whole new (and very interesting) world that I didn't knew about at the time.
    Now I'm really happy, as I get to make a living solving problems with finite element analysis every day.
    Thank you so much, this video changed my life for the better.

  • @wtechboy18
    @wtechboy18 5 лет назад +91

    This would be a really interesting design to do an investment casting of and get aluminum brackets.

  • @dragonstyneenterprises5344
    @dragonstyneenterprises5344 5 лет назад +1

    Your brackets are gorgeous. Excellent work and presentation.

  • @MrMauseri
    @MrMauseri 4 года назад +5

    I have to say that this has to be one of the prettiest functional print I've seen (prolly one of the prettiest prints I've seen in total). Thank you for the STL file. Cant wait to get into Fusion 360 and topology studies.

  • @WilkoVehreke
    @WilkoVehreke 5 лет назад +5

    Great video and I like that you've shown your iterative process. That you have not used the MMU but simply painted the parts is great, too. And the result is awesome.

  • @Buchsbaumschere
    @Buchsbaumschere 5 лет назад +154

    In Rhinos Grasshopper there is an extension called tOpos which runs topology optimizations localy.

    • @justasingledronevideo2583
      @justasingledronevideo2583 5 лет назад +2

      Buchsbaumschere what is rhinos grasshopper

    • @MysticalDork
      @MysticalDork 5 лет назад +6

      @@justasingledronevideo2583 Rhino is a CAD package, and Grasshopper is an algorithmic modeling plugin for Rhino. A commercial license for Rhino 6 costs $995.

    • @justasingledronevideo2583
      @justasingledronevideo2583 5 лет назад +16

      Ryan Willis that doesn’t sound like an optimal alternative to F360 if it’s free

    • @sparkyferret550
      @sparkyferret550 5 лет назад +8

      I also use Rhino, it's a much better option and comes with much more functionality then the limited subscriptions of fusion 360

    • @Krizbonz
      @Krizbonz 5 лет назад +5

      @@sparkyferret550 I try to avoid Autodesk whenever possible lol

  • @DrSami315
    @DrSami315 4 года назад +2

    That's true what you said in the last part, the process does not care how much load you have if you are only specifying (1) Strain Energy and (2) Volume Constraint.
    You need to put additional constraints such as deflection so that the software optimizes your structure given a certain load. I use ABAQUS for Optimization by the way.
    By the way, your video is awesome! so much appreciated!!!

  • @speedbumphu
    @speedbumphu 5 лет назад +35

    I neither have ideas about mechanical engineering nor about Autodesk, but I have found this video very understandable, interesting and reasonable. Keep up the good work!

  • @MushookieMan
    @MushookieMan 4 года назад +116

    This is what it would look like if the Covenant had shelves.

    • @BayLeafff
      @BayLeafff 4 года назад +4

      You just nailed what my subconscious mind was thinking the whole time, it's definitely the purple haha

    • @Ensource
      @Ensource 4 года назад

      halooooooooooooooooooo

    • @daos3300
      @daos3300 4 года назад

      except the covenant would never ruin their shelves with white paint.

  • @SuperMakeSomething
    @SuperMakeSomething 5 лет назад +61

    Very good video Thomas! One note (as Stefan from CNC Kitchen also points out) -- a big issue with this approach is that FDM 3D printed parts are anisotropic, so results should be taken with a grain of salt (or large factor of safety). I would be very interested in seeing comparison results in this regard between FDM and resin prints and their predicted vs. measured failure loads.

    • @timbarrett4580
      @timbarrett4580 Год назад +1

      Also the way he set up his simulation; he only constrained where the countersunk screws were and didn't add a planar constraint where the bracket touches the wall. That's probably why the program almost immediately lightweighted that section and didn't connect any ribs to it.
      And then he printed it with infill, which is definitely different than what the program was calculating for.
      It's a cool way to get very organic looking parts or to visualize your load paths, but I wouldn't trust it without a big safety factor.

    • @Jaze2022
      @Jaze2022 Год назад

      @@timbarrett4580 it's a gimmick. I can't imagine this optimization being useful for any manufacturing process

    • @_..-.._..-.._
      @_..-.._..-.._ Год назад +2

      @@Jaze2022wrong

  • @Tore_Lund
    @Tore_Lund 5 лет назад +1

    Watching this video in great anticipation on how to optimise the simple shelf bracket, just to discover 3 minutes in that you just wanted to make the look cool and throw all the engineering and material science out the door!!

  • @mattpictaggi7504
    @mattpictaggi7504 4 года назад +71

    Interesting how the supports resemble tree branches

    • @marcowen1506
      @marcowen1506 4 года назад +27

      interesting but not surprising: biology has been doing topology optimisation for millions of years. Trees are very, very efficient structures.

    • @mastermati773
      @mastermati773 4 года назад +17

      For me those resemble bones. Bones grow where they are under stress. I don't know if that applies for trees but I suspect yes. It's all literally runtime topological optimization :P

    • @skinny7010
      @skinny7010 3 года назад

      @@mastermati773 bingo -> smaht

  • @GrantStinnett
    @GrantStinnett 5 лет назад +2

    This is incredible. I'm a musician and know nothing about this design world, but I love what you've done. Never seen anything like this before. Thank you for making this!

  • @mhelvens
    @mhelvens 5 лет назад +15

    Pretty neat!
    I don't think I'd have painted the models. At least not any of the curved sections. The colour gradient seems to work well with the organic shape.

  • @paulkassner
    @paulkassner Год назад

    I rarely give a like out, but because you shared the file and did all that testing, it was the least I could do. Great Job!

  • @zeiphon
    @zeiphon 5 лет назад +38

    I would like a strength comparison between the smaller topology optimised brackets and a similar (roughly equivalent) squarish design printed in a more optimal orientation (on its side)

    • @ARepublicIfYouCanKeepIt
      @ARepublicIfYouCanKeepIt 5 лет назад +1

      I assume that Thomas was going for a more organic design. One for which generative design is better suited, but requires cloud credit expense.

    • @fitrianhidayat
      @fitrianhidayat Год назад

      I'm guessing squarish design won. the purpose of topology *optimised* is to use the least materials to achieve the necessary strength, as oppose to make it stronger than conventional shape

  • @joshuawiens1344
    @joshuawiens1344 5 лет назад +569

    I died a little bit when I saw those hardwood boards go from being beautiful to painted white 😨

    • @StCreed
      @StCreed 5 лет назад +49

      Yeah. That was barbaric.

    • @MaddieGraffeo
      @MaddieGraffeo 5 лет назад +28

      Same! Saw the beautiful wood and thought 'he spent extra for this project' then came the paint. :(

    • @Kabodanki
      @Kabodanki 5 лет назад +5

      Sadness level maxed

    • @TheAudiopulse
      @TheAudiopulse 5 лет назад +1

      I liked the look of it.

    • @TheCyclingArtist
      @TheCyclingArtist 5 лет назад +2

      I would have used a filament that was wood pulp-based painted the edges on the boards and supports, and tied it all together that way.

  • @peksn
    @peksn 4 года назад +134

    2:30 Wait, they charge you for running simulations on a software you've already paid for, using store credits??
    Have micro transactions found their way into even 3d engineering software?
    What is wrong with this world

    • @TouchedAlot
      @TouchedAlot 4 года назад +11

      you're paying to rent compute resources to run the simulation. you could do the same thing at home if you had a supercomputer

    • @danepher
      @danepher 4 года назад +68

      @@TouchedAlot You don't need a supercomputer to run such simulation. Engineers at my work run simulations on 16 core PCs at work with no problem on other software. They are just milking people for money.

    • @baconlegend4170
      @baconlegend4170 4 года назад +10

      jus because your computer is a potatoe PC doesnt mean modern computers are sUpEr cOmPuTeRs

    • @TouchedAlot
      @TouchedAlot 4 года назад +4

      most people don't have lots of computers ready and available to throw at simulations. there is no reason to buy, configure and maintain lots of computers yourself if all you want to do is run simulations because you can just rent the amount of computing power you need on demand

    • @aerobyrdable
      @aerobyrdable 4 года назад +6

      As others have said, it's not a microtransaction. You're paying for their server time to run it on their computers. One reason given for them not allowing us to run these simulations on our own computers is that it would require them giving out the code for how to do it.

  • @ewap-by-daniel
    @ewap-by-daniel 5 лет назад

    Gut auf den Punkt gebracht was mit Topologieoptimierung möglich ist. Und ein schön- kreatives Projekt damit gemacht.

  • @miperroesmuyguapo
    @miperroesmuyguapo 5 лет назад +4

    Great video and just as professionally made as always.

  • @isunktheship
    @isunktheship 5 лет назад +1

    Neat experiment, lots of lessons learned. Knowing how to mount in different wall mediums is KEY. Also looks like you used the failed mount in the end, I'd recommend swapping it out!

  • @AndreasIndustriePro
    @AndreasIndustriePro 5 лет назад +285

    wasted $100 on simulation
    has sharp edge on highest stress area
    10/10 engineering

    • @boozebeard9501
      @boozebeard9501 4 года назад +71

      Wasted 15 minutes watching a video.
      Makes a comment about spending $100 when he says multiple times he's using the free option.
      10/10 youtube viewer.

    • @ZeUbinator
      @ZeUbinator 4 года назад +18

      0/10 listening comprehension

    • @KyleDB150
      @KyleDB150 4 года назад +12

      @@fayenotfaye wasted 15 seconds reading reply to comment
      Wastes 15 seconds writing reply about wasting 15 seconds replying to a comment
      me: wastes 5 minutes figuring out reply to reply about wasting 15 minutes watching a video
      me: next level youtube replier

    • @Humbulla93
      @Humbulla93 4 года назад +9

      @@KyleDB150 at this point my math skills aren´t sufficient enough to leave a good reply

    • @Some__Guy
      @Some__Guy 4 года назад +14

      You're all 10/10 people in my book. You beautiful strangers.

  • @gabedarrett1301
    @gabedarrett1301 5 лет назад +1

    I absolutely love the minimalistic look of your shelves

  • @medyk3D
    @medyk3D 5 лет назад +31

    That Multicolor Galaxy PLA is really nice.

    • @pteppig
      @pteppig 5 лет назад +1

      Looks similar to the "waste" filament i got, that has a slow merging discoloration, which happens during colour changes in filament production. Great to see an other version with more significant, "forced" colour changes

    • @Vicros
      @Vicros 5 лет назад +1

      Now I wish I wasn't colourblind

  • @AlohaMilton
    @AlohaMilton 5 лет назад

    Its been a long time Thomas! I just started my delta printer design up again after over a year of it sitting. Zero cleaning, ran perfect, polymer bushing rails FTW!!! Literally 1mm of dust on some parts (edit: ok thats a total lie, its like .3mm at most sorry), delrin sliders shove it aside cleanly and slide smoothly, ignoring any cooking oils etc from the kitchen 10 feet away that must be on them. 5 dollar diy printable linear motion WORKS.

  • @schwarzarbyter
    @schwarzarbyter 5 лет назад +105

    in the next episode Thomas will print walls for his home

    • @MadeWithLayers
      @MadeWithLayers  5 лет назад +24

      Don't tempt me

    • @rok1475
      @rok1475 5 лет назад +4

      Entire walls - too big. But small, topology-optimized interlocking bricks would be viable.
      People are building houses out of plastic bottles and cans - why not out of 3-D printed bricks?

    • @greenthizzle4
      @greenthizzle4 5 лет назад +1

      Thomas Sanladerer you need to print some studs for inside the drywall so your not screwing into plain drywall

    • @joshuawiens1344
      @joshuawiens1344 5 лет назад +1

      Jake Mitch drywall anchors are perfectly suitable for light to medium duty shelving. Most of the crappy ones are rated for 50lbs per anchor.

    • @NigelTolley
      @NigelTolley 5 лет назад +1

      @@greenthizzle4 It isn't drywall. It is actual material worth building a house from, a type of aerated concrete block which is the internal insulation, with a brick or solid concrete outer skin. Waterproof and light, and cheap, and no timber to rot or get eaten. The only downside is you need the correct fixings if putting up shelves!

  • @yuriparracastilho772
    @yuriparracastilho772 4 года назад +1

    Pretty amazing that using a huge amount of math and simulation we get a structure that is like tree branches and bone structure. Nature and evolution themselves are an algorithm for optimization. Awesome video!

  • @suplified
    @suplified 4 года назад +8

    youtube: making something spectacularly complicated
    me: using a triangle and doing just fine

  • @jonjonsson6323
    @jonjonsson6323 5 лет назад +1

    The color combo looks awesome

  • @duicenasty1078
    @duicenasty1078 2 года назад +2

    Good to know that 3D prints are stronger than modern houses

  • @nathanaelmccooeye3204
    @nathanaelmccooeye3204 3 года назад

    All the aesthetic design choices are perfect, IMO!

  • @hieronymusbosch8817
    @hieronymusbosch8817 4 года назад +28

    How is maintenance on them? I'm imagining they trap dust in their phalanges.

    • @ark8705
      @ark8705 4 года назад +1

      You could add a solid layer (maybe glass) to the sides.

    • @jonc8074
      @jonc8074 4 года назад +5

      try to imagine trying to clean a xenomorph hive or polish the furniture in Giger Bar

    • @rafbuelens4908
      @rafbuelens4908 4 года назад +4

      I hate it when I get dust in my phalanges.

  • @vecraztezajci
    @vecraztezajci 4 года назад

    What a beautiful design! Thank you for providing this for free.

  • @bene20080
    @bene20080 5 лет назад +136

    "teach you about topology optimization, while you're at it". Not really, it only teaches you how to use Fusion 360 to use their topology optimization tool. (Which is also good, of course)

    • @KyleDB150
      @KyleDB150 4 года назад +6

      it teaches you the essentials, go do an engineering degree if you want to learn it properly

  • @SpQQky90
    @SpQQky90 5 лет назад

    That's really cool. The white accents on the holders and the natural top of the boards.

  • @dieselphiend
    @dieselphiend 5 лет назад +14

    I am so excited for this tech to see wider adoption. The algorithms used studied things like bone structure during their creation.
    There's not many options as of yet, but I expect that to change. This kind of optimization almost spells the end for what we think are straight lines. Our world is going to get far more curvy!

  • @bahadronurguduru3607
    @bahadronurguduru3607 3 года назад

    This video looks crisp. Congratulations on lighting

  • @jpjokela1
    @jpjokela1 5 лет назад +10

    I think topology optimization is mostly good for solid components (as in, not FDM printed). When it comes to strength and lower material use, at least.
    I've noticed, that you can sometimes actually save material cost / weight by removing holes, as they will basically replace some (low) infill with perimeters. On the other hand, they can increase part strength. And look cool. The most important thing.

  • @johnvodopija
    @johnvodopija 5 лет назад

    Those shelf brackets and the process you used to make them is super cool. Really nice and they look great with that filament. 👍😎🇦🇺

  • @AlohaMilton
    @AlohaMilton 5 лет назад +18

    Question: Does the simulation understand the model is full of hollow cavities? Or did you print them at 100% infill? How does this work with the material properties related to FDM?

    • @spagamoto
      @spagamoto 5 лет назад

      It does not. You can shell your part before doing an optimization. Maybe a subject for a follow up video?

    • @MadeWithLayers
      @MadeWithLayers  5 лет назад +1

      Simulating FDM 3D printed parts is nearly impossible - between the intricate detail that is infill and the anisotropy that layer adhesion causes, it would be a massive simulation project unless you over-simplify the model to the point where it's only a very rough approximation.

    • @AlohaMilton
      @AlohaMilton 5 лет назад

      @@MadeWithLayers hmmm, I wonder if simulating a vertical slice of layers would be enough, the layers simulated in 2d across the center for adhesion and compression applied to the rest as a value of its tensile and compression strength might be enough to be 'close enough'. Making parts function under compression through layers and extension only through horizontally printed loops is tricky... its tricky, its tricky tricky tricky. Uh.

  • @ThantiK
    @ThantiK 5 лет назад +2

    This is the kind of super cool stuff that sets you apart from others Tom. Love it.

  • @benschofield1361
    @benschofield1361 3 года назад +4

    Simulation is not available on the free version

  • @spikekent
    @spikekent 5 лет назад

    I completely agree, they look fantastic. I will be giving it a try as soon as time allows.

  • @theanonomous9465
    @theanonomous9465 5 лет назад +17

    Those look sick. Great job

  • @tinkertv
    @tinkertv 5 лет назад +1

    Excellent way of teaching the 3d printing community how to use simulation and topology for home-driven projects :D
    Keep up the good work!

  • @versatile3d64
    @versatile3d64 5 лет назад +13

    Great Videos Thomas!! Your my go-to guy for everything 3D.

  • @evening8990
    @evening8990 5 лет назад

    brilliant job Tom. You keep er up. You where responsible for me getting into the FDM greatness, and may long we continue to see you around. Slainte

  • @madddog7
    @madddog7 Год назад +9

    Too bad that TO is not available in free version of F360 nowadays.

  • @SecondaryChuckle
    @SecondaryChuckle 5 лет назад

    What an excellent video. It's so refreshing to see your passion showcased so professionally, precisely, and efficiently. Your work is greatly enjoyed and appreciated. :) I love sharing your videos with my students.

  • @Shadowmech88
    @Shadowmech88 5 лет назад +23

    I'd like to see a stress test comparing a topology-optimized shelf bracket with more conventional 3D-printed brackets, to see exactly how much more weight it would allow it to hold before failing/sagging.

    • @almarc
      @almarc 5 лет назад +4

      I don't think this allows *more* weight then the full brick if that's what you're asking. It's obviously weaker, but it takes out a huge percentage of the material for an insignifant strength loss.

    • @ggeorgo555
      @ggeorgo555 5 лет назад +2

      almarc the whole point of topology optimization is to reduce used material while maintaing the same properties as the original structure.

    • @almarc
      @almarc 5 лет назад +2

      @@ggeorgo555 I'm not a certified professional of course, but it can't remain "the same". It can only be 99% or something as strong. Unless you remove some bump on the side that literally carried no weight on it whatsoever.

    • @Shadowmech88
      @Shadowmech88 5 лет назад +1

      @@almarc
      I didn't mean testing whether it was stronger than the full brick.
      By "conventional" brackets, I meant like, 3D-print the kinds of brackets one might find in a store. One that's literally just an L-shape, one that's a triangle shape (L with a single crossbeam), etc. The topology optimized bracket, judging by its appearance, would actually have slightly more material than these.
      Sure, topology optimization is built for retaining mostly the same strength while massively reducing material used, but another way to look at it is that it can massively increase strength with only a small increase in material used, depending on what is used as the input shape. A bracket with 90% of the strength of a solid square block is likely going to be stronger than a bracket with 100% of the strength of a hollow triangle.

  • @smurfBuggery
    @smurfBuggery 5 лет назад

    Amazing how organic it looks.

  • @BryceSchroeder
    @BryceSchroeder 5 лет назад +5

    Wow, Autodesk is such a phenomenal racket. Remember when people were just upset over how expensive perpetual licenses of CAD software were?

  • @glraff3
    @glraff3 Год назад

    I wanted to construct a Wall shelf for my PC (~40-50lbs) it's quite heavy... and by you just standing on these shelves, I think I found my solution

  • @MarkWheadon
    @MarkWheadon 5 лет назад +7

    I'm pretty sure that PLA under load creeps over time, which would not be good. It looks //great// though.

  • @baroncarleton556
    @baroncarleton556 4 года назад

    Great job giving a rundown of the process. A way to make it better is to add in the hardwood plank by incorporating it into the model by adding 2 additional hard points where you fasten the board to the support arms. That would drastically reduce materials required.

  • @spambot7110
    @spambot7110 5 лет назад +5

    i would assume the point of setting a weight in the topology optimizer is for if you have multiple loads and want to configure their relative forces

  • @PUREtarDeserving
    @PUREtarDeserving Год назад

    I interpret this as a metaphor for the broader reality of existence and all living things. Just like in society, some individuals make more significant contributions than others, which is also true in our personal lives

  • @retoruest
    @retoruest 5 лет назад +3

    If you could place the top screw lower, you could make a flat surface and print them upside down. Maybe a bit harder to install them.

  • @gruenbrew
    @gruenbrew 4 года назад

    I get chills thinking about a future society where a majority of our design and technology is so advanced that it just looks organic.

  • @19mitch54
    @19mitch54 5 лет назад +22

    You should use a studfinder to locate the screws in material (wood) that will support some weight. Drywall won't hold much.
    When I was doing finite element stress analysis with NASTRAN (a while ago), I had to accurately model the loads and constraints and the strength of materials. There was some voodoo involved. It was easier in that they were steel structures; I wasn't working with the complicated material of a 3D print.

    • @antalz
      @antalz 5 лет назад +10

      European buildings are almost never timberframed. They are nearly always built around brick or concrete walls. That's why he got out such a heavy drill, you pretty much need a percussion drill to hang anything in Europe in most cases. A studfinder won't do you any good here.

    • @MadeWithLayers
      @MadeWithLayers  5 лет назад +7

      This is neither a stud wall not covered with drywall.

  • @oBseSsIoNPC
    @oBseSsIoNPC 4 года назад

    A experienced builder or engineer can certainly make that part even better, what a great tool! I think you definitely did the right thing to NOT paint the whole shelf white. Take a beautiful natural wood and paint it to look like the rest of the IKEA show room...might as well buy from them in the first place haha. Organic supports and plain white would have been a huge mistake!
    Thanks for sharing! Very useful and all the right content.

  • @holykoolala
    @holykoolala 5 лет назад +6

    Could you compare the strength of these to one that you optimize yourself by intuition with the same amount of material?

  • @erichoppes7529
    @erichoppes7529 4 года назад

    It's amazing that the same principle that allows the shelves to be constructed this way (on the exterior) is the same thing that the printer uses to lay the internal wiring to optimize resources

  • @Mavrik9000
    @Mavrik9000 5 лет назад +3

    I'd like to see it redone with the top wider than the bottom where it connects to the wall.
    Since that was the failure point, and it doesn't have to be straight and square to save material or make it easier to produce.

  • @danko6582
    @danko6582 5 лет назад +2

    Thanks for the STL! I'm going to try these out.

  • @MikaelLAOhman
    @MikaelLAOhman 5 лет назад +75

    Strength is not rigidity. This type of topology optimization of this
    sort can only ever optimize rigidity, typically at the *cost* of
    strength. It specifically computes forces * displacement because the
    math allows you do to this very easily, and inexpensively. Choose to
    optimize anything else, and the problem becomes thousands of times more
    expensive, requiring completely different approaches.

    • @elyasrasti8943
      @elyasrasti8943 5 лет назад

      It works though....

    • @JamesSeedorf
      @JamesSeedorf 5 лет назад +12

      @@thealienrobotanthropologist agreed, a simple right angle triangle would have been the strongest with the least material. All of the support for the shelf is adding zero strength here because the shelf is self supporting. It needs braced on the outside and at the wall, that is it.

    • @Jehty_
      @Jehty_ 5 лет назад +3

      @@thealienrobotanthropologist Please upload a video that shows how you would design such a beautiful piece.
      For someone who isn't artistic this method is fast and simple and apparently it works.

    • @Jehty_
      @Jehty_ 5 лет назад +4

      @@JamesSeedorf and a right angle triangle looks just exactly the same like the one your neighbor has. If you want your apartment look like an Ikea catalog, just buy the brackets. If you want something unique the video shows how its done.

    • @carbon1255
      @carbon1255 5 лет назад +4

      @@JamesSeedorf This is incorrect, the topology optimization also specifies a right angle brace. In this video he left in dynamic curves as limiters on the outside so a more "natural" shape would form.
      Also rigidity is the objective for this application. Strength is based on the slicer methods.

  • @cghoward70
    @cghoward70 4 года назад

    Seems like a great way to compare various filaments and filament supplier quality.

  • @Cyborgzerozero9
    @Cyborgzerozero9 5 лет назад +21

    That bottom part of that piece hes holding at 11:22 aint looking so hot . But then it gets glossed over like nothing happened so im like :V

    • @david102994
      @david102994 5 лет назад +10

      and I thought it was funny that he was like "what is this...foam concrete" and if he means drywall then it's amazing that someone with such specialized knowledge doesn't know about drywall. It's great to see examples of how experts are just normal people in areas other than their field. Like how Ben Carson is a brain surgeon but that doesn't mean his politics are good.

    • @83hjf
      @83hjf 5 лет назад +3

      @@david102994 hey you numbnuts, do you understand this person is german? he probably speaks english better than you.

    • @fhuber7507
      @fhuber7507 4 года назад

      Most likely he printed another after the anchor failed to hold.
      Not blaming the design of the 3D printed part for the failure of the anchor.

    • @r3dluff
      @r3dluff 4 года назад +5

      david102994 in europe houses are made of bricks and concrete, but sometimes if youre unlucky you can hit a hollow or foamy part that just doesnt hold. We dont have drywalls. He just hit a bad spot. Happens to the best of us

    • @Joel-co3xl
      @Joel-co3xl 4 года назад +2

      @@r3dluff idk where you're from, but drywall is pretty common in sweden.

  • @fns58
    @fns58 4 года назад

    Not sure if you will read this comment at this point but I will leave it here anyways.
    1. This video gave me inspiration in my Mech Engineering final degree project in Q2 2020. I am now an Engineer. Came by your video again after buying a 3D Printer xD.
    2. For the wall plugs, for plaster walls as they are called, I really recommend you Fischer Duoblade. Each one of those holds 8Kg, and you don't even need a drill!

    • @MadeWithLayers
      @MadeWithLayers  4 года назад

      Great to hear! It's still not a plaster wall or drywall, though 😉

  • @imbw267
    @imbw267 5 лет назад +44

    Tom: Says the guy who lives in an IKEA catalog
    IKEA: 👍

    • @radarmusen
      @radarmusen 5 лет назад +3

      Reminds me about fight club.

  • @SKyrim190
    @SKyrim190 5 лет назад +1

    They have a very interesting shape. It looks organic and tree-like!

  • @OwenBuckingham11
    @OwenBuckingham11 5 лет назад +8

    I used this same process to make a stronger version of my RC car chassis, worked amazing! Love Fusion 360

    • @ricky107_
      @ricky107_ 5 лет назад

      That sounds cooool

  • @goodyKoeln
    @goodyKoeln 5 лет назад

    Gruselig, da ist gestern hier so eine Filamentrolle angekommen und sofort gibt’s ein passendes Video was ich damit machen sollte. 🤔

  • @sawilliams
    @sawilliams 5 лет назад +14

    The more complex our algorithms and processes get the more and more they mimic nature.

    • @tombratfred3102
      @tombratfred3102 5 лет назад +7

      I would rather say that nature and simulation converge on the same optimum.

    • @forloop7713
      @forloop7713 5 лет назад +2

      @@tombratfred3102 I would argue that evolution is a good optimisation algorithm which ran for a long time and found almost optimal solution for some problems, and machines are finding good solution to these problems now

    • @tombratfred3102
      @tombratfred3102 5 лет назад

      @@forloop7713 This is exactly what I implied ;)

  • @pepperypeppers2755
    @pepperypeppers2755 Год назад

    These are beautiful, the white accents look sharp

  • @easaspace
    @easaspace 5 лет назад +5

    First off all: great video! Awesome shelves! Then to my question: why gyroid infill? While cool to watch and fast to print, it's not strong at all. No two lines really rest on top of each other, so no load bearing compared to triangular or grid. I know your shelves were more than strong enough, but how about some experiments with this? Or should I poke Steffan with it? 😜

    • @MadeWithLayers
      @MadeWithLayers  5 лет назад

      Definitely a topic worth investigating! Gyroid is supposed to be the ultimate (isotopic) infill pattern, so I use it whenever print time isn't super crucial.

  • @CodeCowboy64
    @CodeCowboy64 5 лет назад +2

    Thank you so much for this video! I was tempted to just grab your design (it is awesome) but I think I'll spend the extra time now and make my own and learn while I'm at it! Thanks for the inspiration!

  • @chris15325
    @chris15325 5 лет назад +25

    Video should be called "making overly complicated shelf brackets with industrial design software nerds"

  • @yodaiam1000
    @yodaiam1000 4 года назад +2

    It would be interesting to see the optimization result if a stress limitation was used which proportioned a lower stress in the cross grain direction. It would be good to know if the optimizations was for strain energy or a limited stress/strain.

  • @DarthBlazer.
    @DarthBlazer. 3 года назад +22

    Fusion no longer supports this in the free version, boo

    • @yesanton
      @yesanton 27 дней назад

      Yes it's annoying this video now is dark for me

  • @alistairwilson5344
    @alistairwilson5344 5 лет назад

    Just came across this on my "recommended" list. Very cool. Very inspiring. Now I know what I want for Christmas. Subscribed!

  • @douglasmeadwell1417
    @douglasmeadwell1417 2 года назад +3

    Simulation is not available in the free trial😭

  • @andylewis7360
    @andylewis7360 5 лет назад

    Awesome brackets, Thomas! Well, optimised and beautiful too!!

  • @michaelkowalski3745
    @michaelkowalski3745 5 лет назад +5

    Did you figure out what settings make more fingers show up? I was inspired to give this a shot, and made a 80% similar shape to test shape optimization. Sometimes I get a finger or 2, but...mostly it solves without much interesting geometries. Are there any secrets or tips to force more interesting solve geometry? Currently experimenting, but it takes a while for each solve : /

  • @ricci8497
    @ricci8497 5 лет назад

    Love the brackets they look so organic

  • @MonsterPartsRc
    @MonsterPartsRc 2 года назад +4

    Dang!... I JUST found a use for topology optimization and now they've removed it from the free version

  • @andrewjames7705
    @andrewjames7705 4 года назад

    Great video! The multi color filament you used makes for a neat end result.

  • @YetAnotherAaron
    @YetAnotherAaron 5 лет назад +10

    you need to mount those to studs in the wall, anchoring to the drywall is usually a bad idea

    • @MarkHanford
      @MarkHanford 5 лет назад +3

      It is not drywall. He literally says they are construction blocks. Not many countries build houses like the US does. They're still the wrong fixings though ;)

    • @T0BBi94
      @T0BBi94 5 лет назад +4

      @@MarkHanford He literally has no idea what kind of wall it was... It was most likely a plaster wall. The can withstand quite some force when plugged correctly but it is always best to find a stud.

    • @joshuawiens1344
      @joshuawiens1344 5 лет назад

      Drywall anchors are rated for like 50lbs + per anchor, and that’s for the crappiest ones.

    • @NigelTolley
      @NigelTolley 5 лет назад

      @@joshuawiens1344 good luck putting a drywall anchor into masonry block. That's even more worryingly wrong than the slightly wrong fixings Thomas used.

    • @marcusvoss
      @marcusvoss 5 лет назад

      lol concrete not drywall...

  • @macbuff81
    @macbuff81 5 лет назад

    Very cool:) form and function. Love the organic look of it. This reductive process is what stone masons/sculptors use too

  • @kevfquinn
    @kevfquinn 5 лет назад +6

    Can the simulations take account of infill patterns/density?

  • @chrischris8550
    @chrischris8550 4 года назад

    Great video. Great product. Thank you for pointing out to most people, that software which is beneficial to development is out of most people's financial grasp!

  • @the9file
    @the9file 5 лет назад +64

    interested in industrial design. mounts brackets onto drywall with molly bolts and glue.

    • @MsHojat
      @MsHojat 5 лет назад +1

      LOL yeah.

    • @almarc
      @almarc 5 лет назад +1

      Here where I live all the walls are always thick and strong, so when I tried mounting some things with walls like those, it was very confusing for me at the beginning :D

    • @kurtwagner6574
      @kurtwagner6574 5 лет назад +5

      It's not drywall lol. Here in Germany walls are typically made out of concrete or concrete bricks with plaster/render added on top, also inside of houses. So mounting a shelf with dowels and screws is the way to go. You can see him using a hammer drill in the video too.

    • @the9file
      @the9file 5 лет назад +1

      @@kurtwagner6574 thx 4 elucidating

    • @TBFSJjunior
      @TBFSJjunior 5 лет назад

      @@kurtwagner6574
      Actually it is foam concret bricks (ytong), so definitely not dry wall, but also not solid concrete.

  • @jfan4reva
    @jfan4reva 4 года назад

    They looked like women's high heel shoes before you put them up. Now they look like you should have a bunch of "Yes" albums on the shelves - lol!
    Very cool brackets! Thanks for the video.