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I think, mosty it's that he gets bored too fast of his character to play them for a whole campaign and he wanted to do something fresh. I love Sam for his smarts and his comedy but i really hate when he becomes destructive because he's bored - at least that's how it felt for me in that campaign.
@@xxJOKeR75xx I think it was the most interesting choice he could've made, and it wasn't random, rewatching the first campaign after the fact they were pretty horrible to him. Also in my opinion Tary was the best thing to happen to the group, they were not great people and not great friends to eachother but after that situation they realised they need to work on themselves and Tary was the perfect opportunity to be better friends and people. Say what you want but Sam made the best choices in any campaign that first campaign to me.
Well, Scanlan was upset, but he was mostly projecting. Also, at the time Scanlan was kind of the weakest link. Sam had built up Scanlan to be a kind of joke character, who supported from the rear and made jokes, but didn’t really intend for the character to be a bad ass in the group or last for as long as their game had. So in order to give him some time to think and grow as a character, Sam had him leave, and in the meantime, introduced a different character to play - who had more abilities.
@@wiredjerk More abilities and he used the new character to be an emotional mirror to how the rest of the party treated Scanlan, which definitely helped with party cohesion later.
Pike wasn't as present during the campaign since Ashley was busy so thats major part of why Scanlan was different too, Sam himself said that if Pike was around things would have been different, we see the difference in the show Pike cares for Scanlan and is there for him when hes thinking about his kid
'Why did she jump?' Because she thought in terms of D&D mechanics and not physics. You can only stretch fantasy so far. Matt gave her every opportunity to basically save herself and took none of the hints. I laughed so hard at the time.
While I was kinda upset about Bards Lament being excluded from LOVM, it makes sense as to why they didn’t include it. But I like that they sprinkled out some parts of it throughout season 3, and Sam is a heck of an actor.
Restoring Percy: The spell requires a WILLING soul to return to the body. Taliesin was perfectly okay with Percy dying at that point and rolling a new character. As far as Tal was concerned, Percy had accomplished enough that his soul would've been at peace: The Briarwoods were dead, all the other betrayers of his family were dead, Ripley was dead, his sister was alive and running Whitestone, and Whitestone itself would be safe because he felt Vox Machina would eventually be able to defeat the rest of the Chroma Conclave. (Remember that at this point in the campaign, Percy and Vex were not yet together.) So Tal was sitting in the green room watching the stream. If the group made a strong enough case for Percy's soul to return, then Tal was going to send Matt a text to let him know. If the group didn't, the resurrection spell was going to fail no matter what the dice roll was. It was Vex's declaration of love during the ritual that put it over the top. That was something Tal/Percy couldn't ignore. edited because I forgot Glintshore came before the final Chroma Conclave episodes and not after
1:09:06 when a character dies in campaign, the player leaves the table until they are restored to life or until a backup character they've created gets introduced into the campaign.
Watching the "Scanlan chateau" part really reminds me that although Scanlan in the show is grea, there's just no replicating Sam's humor I love how much you appreciate Matt's crazy sound effect skills! Ok but I need to emphasize how epic Keyleth's feeblemind was (rambling incoming). For starters, Marisha had some bad luck and problems with her spells not working (like when she used tsunami and didn't really work as well as she'd hoped), and then obviously her personal animosity agaisnt Raishan since she caused a lot of her people's death. But above all, Raishan's whole thing was her intelligence and cunning, how she manipulated everyone to get ahead, and Keyleth never bought her bullshit. Feeblemind is the PERFECT spell bc it took away her deadliest weapon! Bard's Lament is by far my FAVORITE moment in all of Critical Role, Sam's acting chops were crazy. Funny silly Scanlan blowing up was so unexpected and yet so perfect. About Pike Grog and Scanlan: they were definitely a trio of best buds, but Grog and Pike were always closer. Also, bc in the animated show Pike is around a lot more, we see Scanlan leaning on her more, which doesn't really happen in the campaign. Basically the cartoon shows us a what if scenario of what if Pike was around to notice Scanlan? And the answer is: he wouldn't have left
Please watch Exandria Unlimited: Calamity, the live play miniseries that introduced us to Zerxes and the Ring of Brass. It’s free, it’s 4 episodes/20 hours, and it’s beginner friendly! Best live play you’ll ever watch and you get so much context and incredible performances Also SO GLAD you watched Bard’s Lament. the show posed an alternate path where Pike prevented it, but in the campaign, Pike was gone for extended periods of time which affected their relationship. Without Pike, and other events, Scanlan’s story got pretty dark, to the point where he got addicted to spice and nobody really took it seriously. The result is acting gold
Because most of them come from acting, voice acting , directing and theatre background and were friends way before the campaign started streaming they did drama and humour so well that they used to get accused of scripting 😂 that's how good their campaign was and it still is tbh. I remember watching the Scanlan leaving part and really thought Sam was angry and leaving the group So excited for season 4 and mighty nein
A Bard's Lament - The pudding(custard, actually) Scanlan died during the fight with Thordak. The group ran out of revivify spells during the battle, so they had to wait until after and use something more powerful. Sam had a family vacation the week after the big fight, so Matt/Sam decided to just have Scanlan be in a short coma for that episode after the resurrection spell(or whatever it was) succeeded. The group decided to prank Scanlan by putting him in a nightgown and splattering custard over him and the room. When he woke up, they were going to say he passed out during an orgy or something like that. Also, the order of events was: 1. Get Kaylie 2. Perform resurrection spell 3. Set up custard prank So they didn't bring Kaylie in and show her Scanlan's custard covered corpse. The prank was set up once everyone(including Kaylie) knew he was going to be okay. Plus, the whole prank was as much about the cast pranking Sam for missing an episode to go on vacation as it was about the group pranking Scanlan. The rest of the cast(besides Matt) had no idea what was coming, or where exactly Scanlan's head was at.
The Bard's lament was a very dramatic and intense part of the campaign. It was mostly an excuse for Sam to bring in his new character (who I desperately hope is in S4). He probably mentioned his mother's name once in the first few sessions of their home game, while Percy and Keyleth's parents were actually part of the story, no one playing is expected to actually memorize all that stuff. The fact that they covered his unconscious body with moldy pudding is definitely the nail in the coffin though XD By that point getting resurrected was no big deal really (like when Keyleth went goldfish) so that sort of explains their nonchalance about the situation.
I understand what Sam and CR were facing as they finished season 3. His cancer and them not yet being sure that they'd get a season 4. However, I'm still heartbroken we didn't get The Bard's Lament!
There were various in-game and out-of-game reasons for how A Bard's Lament went down. I do recall Sam saying in either the talk show or another interview or something that he didn't create Scanlan to be serious in any way. He'd never played DnD before playing with these guys. He didn't realize how deep and serious it could get. And at some point during the live stream when all these dramatic, deeply meaningful events were happening that involved everyone else's backstory, he realized that Scanlan didn't really fit in quite the same. So after he died during the fight with the last dragon, he communicated those thoughts to Matt, and they came up with a way to give Scanlan at least one really big dramatic arc as well as a temporary exit from Vox Machina. And it took both the cast, the fans, and even the production team by surprise. Liam thought this was Sam's way of quitting the show. The production crew were throwing things at Sam at the end of that episode. It was unbelievably heartbreaking, only for him to troll us all 5 minutes later with a new character. lol
In the show all of the character’s negative trait’s were toned down so they would be more likeable. Like covering him and his room in pudding and tying him up and leaving his unconscious body alone for days to sit in it. So most of the moment’s where the group was outa line with Scanlan were cut Because being limited to 20ish minutes an episode and being limited to 12 episodes a season they obviously had to cut a lot of content, some of that content showcasing that while they were a family there was group’s within that family like. Vax/Vex/Keyleth/Percy were much closer and spent much more time with each other than they ever spent with Scanlan/Grog/Pike and because Ashley could barely play in Campaign 1 (she was busy filming a show) Pike was barely there. So unlike the show, Scanlan for a long time was spiralling into a deeper depression and the only one he was genuinely friends with was Grog and as great as the big guy is, Scanlan felt like he had no one to talk to and while not completely in the right, Scanlan did make some points that would make more sense if you watched the campaign, like him kinda being the 3rd wheel of the group and being treated differently and sometimes lesser especially by Vex and Percy. And it’s more of a game thing than an actual narrative thing but at the point in the story when Scanlan died, everyone except keyleth and Vax had also died so the players, while they still did care, they were used to just reviving whoever went down at that point so Scanlan’s death was kinda treated a little less important hence the “prank” on his body. Also in the campaign Scanlan and kaylie had a very important talk that’s integral to Scanlan as a person (he’s never gave a shit about his own life, like ever. That’s why he’s always the first to offer himself as the “distraction”) so when kaylie makes him promise to not die it ways on him heavily. That talk hasn’t really happened in the show yet. Really the only reason why the Lament is so different is because they didn’t know they would get another season and didn’t wanna end on a downer. So they made it more hopeful, if they had known they would get another season it would of been much closer to the original Lament.
Yes, Sam (Scanlan) sometimes thinks of the songs ahead of the time. He has answered questions about it, often coming up with stuff during Los Angeles commuting (which can be long), listening to music in the car.
Just want to clarify a little bit about Scanlan's outburst at the end during The Bard's Lament, since you wouldn't be able to know what caused such a difference without watching the full campaign(No spoilers, of course). In the animated show, Pike and Scanlan get a lot of time together to develop that bond, but in the actual campaign Pike was actual rarely there. Ashley had to leave often because she was filming a tv series at the same time, so Pike was often not with the group. If you remember back in season 1 when pike goes off on her own for most of the season and then Astral Projects into Whitestone for an episode or two at the end before she disappears again, in the actual campaign, her Astral Projection was the explanation for why she would be gone from the group for 5-6 livestreams in a row and then be back for 1 or 2 before disappearing again. She wasn't actually around with the group for a lot of the campaign, so most of those moments in the animated show where Scanlan would confide in Pike never happened originally. Because of that Scanlan didn't really have anyone to talk to about it, leading to his outburst. At 1:15:20 y'all saw them talk a little bit about it being different, but Sam had mentioned elsewhere that having Pike around to talk to in the animated show was a main part of why the animated Scanlan didn't end up the same as he was in the campaign.
Yeah no they covered him in actual pudding, put him in a nightgown and tied his hands to bedposts while he was unconscious in a typical "haha its dnd and this character is a jokester" moment and Sam made an awesome choice to be *furious* about it There's a lot more there that everyone says in the moment, it's an incredible interaction by everyone.
I'd say that yeah, the diamond was the end goal. But, the reason for jumping instead of, say, turning into a bird, was because she thought it would look cooler. Keyleth made interesting decisions in pursuit of coolness throughout the campaign. Some even turned out cool. 😎😎
Remember Pike was absent like a lot a lot, so almost every interaction in the show was completely new, so she never really had those heart to heart talks with Scanlan at the table. Hence why Scanlan is so angr.
No, the mansion or any spell that takes a minute to cast would not be useful mid combat. D&D combat usually only lasts a few rounds (often ending within 20 seconds from the character's point of view). If you actually have a combat that goes a full minute (10 rounds of combat) you are in the title fight of your life.
These things happened so long ago, so I'm not sure I remember all the details. When Scanlan was resurrected, the group kind of made the situation lite by putting stuff on his body, including actual pudding. While I forget what his daughter thought in that moment, he did leave to spend more time with her. Scanlan's anger hurt because not only did he have a point, but some people at the table thought real-world things were affecting the game, like Sam was leaving.
Pike was gone for much of the game. Sam had said Scanland leaving would not happen if Pike had been around more so In the animated show Pike is around so their is less reason for him to leave.
Yeah, the last scene was pretty different from the campaign. There's plenty of understandable reasons for why they made the change, though I know some fans dislike that it was different. There's still some possibility that they do a more campaign accurate version later. Maybe as a what-if style vision for Pike of how the team would be without her around since she seems to be being setup for an arc around her faith and an in-universe explanation for Scanlan having a better relationship with his daughter is Pike being there to support him (which wasn't the case in the game because Ashley was in NYC and couldn't participate in every game).
I like how everyone seems to forget that Pike was actually in the room for A Bard's Lament. Ashley wasn't there, but Pike was. I know there's a big difference between the character being present and the player actually being at the table, but I just feel that Pike supposedly being able to change things is vastly overstated by many(not so much this comment, but many others). In the campaign wrap-up, Sam was asked if anything could have changed his mind. He said maybe Pike, but he said it in a way that indicated it would've been a long shot. Scanlan was very committed to leaving(he was in a terrible headspace at the time - extremely depressed, addicted to drugs, with deep feelings of isolation, failure, and worthlessness). The cast could see some of it happening(mostly the drugs), but the group couldn't because Scanlan's charisma/deception was so high he was always able to beat their insight checks with his deception. It's possible Pike might have been able to spot it(insight +10 at the time), but Scanlan's +22 deception was pretty insane to beat. (Keyleth had a better chance with a +17 insight, but Scanlan beat her the times she tried to insight check him about his drug use.)
1:01:13 that's the thing about the animation, they cut a lot of their dorky/ dumb@ss moments, which I get because they have a severe time limit. But the true delight of VM is that they are BOTH Insane bad@sses AND huge dorks that epically fail at basic tasks lol.
Scanlan was doing drugs, being chaotic, having less impressive songs for a long time and not talking to anyone about his problems, he was a lot more buddy buddy with grog but kept pike at an arms length. mythcarver wasn't even that big of a deal to him, so to him being with the group was just hazardous to his health as he died two days in a row.
You probably shouldn't have watched the Keyfish moment as that'll probably happen in S4 but the reason she jumped was because they lost a diamond in the ocean and she was trying to retrieved it by 'Pocahontas-ing' off a cliff.
They've hinted that the Easter egg will be as close as we get, saying it's just too hard to make it make sense in the story without seriously lessening the weight of a character death
@@sandpiperr yea cause I think they are going a different direction with the person that mini arc that event occured in was centered around. I know alot of people think we will get the keyfish moment but I just don't see a reason given the story changes.
@@darkguardian50 Honestly, I do not get why people are so obsessed with it! It was a funny in-game moment, but it makes no sense to go out of their way to put it in the show.
Yeah Trinket was pretty much completely useless the whole campaign XD Just a poorly designed subclass where you get a beast companion but they're turbo turd
"She was so badass in the show." Yeah Marisha had it rough the first season, she got a lot of unnecessary hate. Granted she wasn't very good with the technical part of the game early on in the first campaign and made some really big blunders due to not reading the effects of her spells. I feel, once they all realized that Critical Role was going somewhere they all kinda tightened up their play and knowledge of the rules. Marisha was easily the most improved player by the end of the campaign, like with that clutch feeble spell. When campaign 2 started she was a beast. She was clutch is so many situations. You're gonna love the Mighty Nein.
Yeah well that "she was so badass in the show" comment does reflect why RPG stream watchers can be so annoying sometimes. It's a freaking dice roll! It's literally random and it's not like people don't know that, so I don't get why viewers made it so personal. And don't even try the "but she didn't learn her spells" stuff because that comment was around her rolling a natural 1 on an athletics check to jump 6 feet. That had nothing to do with how well Marisha did or didn't know the rules. It was just bad luck.
and a lot of people complaining about her forget shes playing a moon druid, the most complex and overwhelming subclass of the most complex and overwhelming class. the fact she wasnt more confused is impressive
Nope, it was actual pudding. Percy's idea and the others went along with the "prank." I was shocked. Several characters died during the campaign but I don't remember anyone ever having their corpse disrespected in such a way. And then for Kaylie to see him like that. I genuinely disliked the rest of the cast for a good while after that moment.
I’ve personally never liked Bard’s Lament, with Scanlan crashing out and leaving the group. My esteem for the character never really recovered after that point, though there is a moment between *Sam* and Liam in the final big battle that is maybe my favorite moment of the entire campaign. Scanlan’s tirade wasn’t completely out of left field (the pudding thing was always awful and I never understood it) but it still didn’t feel earned or reasonable. More like a selfish temper tantrum (from the character, it’s never been a Sam issue, in my opinion) and it always just kind of felt incongruous. I’m personally glad they went a different way in the show.
Nah. It was earned why scanlan basically exploded on them. Sam had mentioned before where there was a reddit post that essentially described how scanlan was feeling. It ties in with Robin Williams. This blow up was basically something that had been brewing for a while. That's why he had been taking drugs.. Scanlan earned his blow up because up to that point he had multiple close calls with death and even died a couple of times. Ever since he found out he was a father, his life changed. He had been trying to be safe while building a relationship with her. He's even made a promise to her (before this death) he'll come back after the fight and he went and died.. Then he wakes up from the ritual to them basically shitting on him (I believe they had smeared him up with poo or like dressed him up in a costume or something as a joke before he woke up I forget clearly). He just got fed up and exploded. Though he did clarify later that had Ashley been there physically to talk as Pike, she was probably the only person that could have prevented him from leaving..😂
Sorry, but it was boring on the show. I get all the reasons they did it the way they did on the show, but it still just was not as impactful at all for them to just peacefully go their separate ways. As for the fact that Scanlan's rant wasn't 100% justified, if you actually thought about it you'd realize that's what makes compelling characters that seem more real. People don't always act reasonably, and aren't always able to see beyond their own persective especially when they're struggling with depression!
Sure, I get all that. It was poorly handled in the original stream. In fairness to them, it’s hard to seed such complex moments when everything is RP and unscripted. So it’s understandable and not anybody’s fault, but that doesn’t make it really *work* in the stream. It’s an RP moment, and it was a big swing, but that doesn’t make the final result good. As they’ve said in interviews (including a clip shown right here in this video) they weren’t sure they were getting a 4th season, and it would have been a pretty unsatisfying final note for what could’ve been the final season of the show. All that on top of the fact that it’s not a well-executed beat to begin with. It really is better this way.
Like, characters being flawed is good. Characters acting incongruently and against their own nature out of left field? Not as much, and that’s what the original stream version of Bard’s lament was. Again, it’s a complex thing to try and seed via improvisation and RP, not anybody’s fault. But still, it being understandable doesn’t make it good.
I don't like BL, but it was definitely IC for Scanlan. Throughout the campaign he was a narcissistic manipulator with abusive tendencies even when he wasn't on drugs (of course, since a lot of the fandom finds Sam funny, the character's given a free pass for this behavior). Add drugs and depression to the mix and this is what you get, the classic tune: 🎶"Nobody loves me, everybody hates me."🎶 He was already unapologetically mind raping friends and allies. What's a little gaslighting added to the mix with the whole "What's my mother's name?" thing? As if he ever told them anything when they did ask, and I know Vax, at the very least, had tried to talk to him before and he blew him off. As someone who had to deal with someone very much like this in real life, I give Sam props for his acting, but that episode is what took me from mere dislike of the character to hatred. I'm glad they changed him in the animated series and I'm really glad they didn't include BL. As it is, I still don't _like_ LOVM Scanlan, but I can at least tolerate him.
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Don't worry, Sam was not really upset, it was just acting, 5 minutes later he trolls them with a new character
he was then attacked with the same tissues they had just cried into
I think, mosty it's that he gets bored too fast of his character to play them for a whole campaign and he wanted to do something fresh. I love Sam for his smarts and his comedy but i really hate when he becomes destructive because he's bored - at least that's how it felt for me in that campaign.
@@xxJOKeR75xx I think it was the most interesting choice he could've made, and it wasn't random, rewatching the first campaign after the fact they were pretty horrible to him. Also in my opinion Tary was the best thing to happen to the group, they were not great people and not great friends to eachother but after that situation they realised they need to work on themselves and Tary was the perfect opportunity to be better friends and people.
Say what you want but Sam made the best choices in any campaign that first campaign to me.
Well, Scanlan was upset, but he was mostly projecting. Also, at the time Scanlan was kind of the weakest link. Sam had built up Scanlan to be a kind of joke character, who supported from the rear and made jokes, but didn’t really intend for the character to be a bad ass in the group or last for as long as their game had. So in order to give him some time to think and grow as a character, Sam had him leave, and in the meantime, introduced a different character to play - who had more abilities.
@@wiredjerk More abilities and he used the new character to be an emotional mirror to how the rest of the party treated Scanlan, which definitely helped with party cohesion later.
Fun fact: Percy‘s line “ I don’t recommend lists” Is in reference to his pistol. He named it The List.
Pike wasn't as present during the campaign since Ashley was busy so thats major part of why Scanlan was different too, Sam himself said that if Pike was around things would have been different, we see the difference in the show Pike cares for Scanlan and is there for him when hes thinking about his kid
'Why did she jump?'
Because she thought in terms of D&D mechanics and not physics. You can only stretch fantasy so far. Matt gave her every opportunity to basically save herself and took none of the hints. I laughed so hard at the time.
While I was kinda upset about Bards Lament being excluded from LOVM, it makes sense as to why they didn’t include it. But I like that they sprinkled out some parts of it throughout season 3, and Sam is a heck of an actor.
Restoring Percy: The spell requires a WILLING soul to return to the body. Taliesin was perfectly okay with Percy dying at that point and rolling a new character. As far as Tal was concerned, Percy had accomplished enough that his soul would've been at peace: The Briarwoods were dead, all the other betrayers of his family were dead, Ripley was dead, his sister was alive and running Whitestone, and Whitestone itself would be safe because he felt Vox Machina would eventually be able to defeat the rest of the Chroma Conclave. (Remember that at this point in the campaign, Percy and Vex were not yet together.)
So Tal was sitting in the green room watching the stream. If the group made a strong enough case for Percy's soul to return, then Tal was going to send Matt a text to let him know. If the group didn't, the resurrection spell was going to fail no matter what the dice roll was. It was Vex's declaration of love during the ritual that put it over the top. That was something Tal/Percy couldn't ignore.
edited because I forgot Glintshore came before the final Chroma Conclave episodes and not after
1:09:06 when a character dies in campaign, the player leaves the table until they are restored to life or until a backup character they've created gets introduced into the campaign.
Watching the "Scanlan chateau" part really reminds me that although Scanlan in the show is grea, there's just no replicating Sam's humor
I love how much you appreciate Matt's crazy sound effect skills!
Ok but I need to emphasize how epic Keyleth's feeblemind was (rambling incoming). For starters, Marisha had some bad luck and problems with her spells not working (like when she used tsunami and didn't really work as well as she'd hoped), and then obviously her personal animosity agaisnt Raishan since she caused a lot of her people's death. But above all, Raishan's whole thing was her intelligence and cunning, how she manipulated everyone to get ahead, and Keyleth never bought her bullshit. Feeblemind is the PERFECT spell bc it took away her deadliest weapon!
Bard's Lament is by far my FAVORITE moment in all of Critical Role, Sam's acting chops were crazy. Funny silly Scanlan blowing up was so unexpected and yet so perfect. About Pike Grog and Scanlan: they were definitely a trio of best buds, but Grog and Pike were always closer. Also, bc in the animated show Pike is around a lot more, we see Scanlan leaning on her more, which doesn't really happen in the campaign. Basically the cartoon shows us a what if scenario of what if Pike was around to notice Scanlan? And the answer is: he wouldn't have left
I’m obsessed with this show and y’all’s reactions to it, can’t wait for Season 4!
Please watch Exandria Unlimited: Calamity, the live play miniseries that introduced us to Zerxes and the Ring of Brass. It’s free, it’s 4 episodes/20 hours, and it’s beginner friendly! Best live play you’ll ever watch and you get so much context and incredible performances
Also SO GLAD you watched Bard’s Lament. the show posed an alternate path where Pike prevented it, but in the campaign, Pike was gone for extended periods of time which affected their relationship. Without Pike, and other events, Scanlan’s story got pretty dark, to the point where he got addicted to spice and nobody really took it seriously. The result is acting gold
Honestly they might still do Bard's Lament in the future, just set up differently (I hope so at least!)
Seconded!
Because most of them come from acting, voice acting , directing and theatre background and were friends way before the campaign started streaming they did drama and humour so well that they used to get accused of scripting 😂 that's how good their campaign was and it still is tbh. I remember watching the Scanlan leaving part and really thought Sam was angry and leaving the group
So excited for season 4 and mighty nein
To be fair, so did everyone else, I think. Their faces were definitely more shocked and confused.
That Taryon reveal was amazing though.
A Bard's Lament - The pudding(custard, actually)
Scanlan died during the fight with Thordak. The group ran out of revivify spells during the battle, so they had to wait until after and use something more powerful. Sam had a family vacation the week after the big fight, so Matt/Sam decided to just have Scanlan be in a short coma for that episode after the resurrection spell(or whatever it was) succeeded. The group decided to prank Scanlan by putting him in a nightgown and splattering custard over him and the room. When he woke up, they were going to say he passed out during an orgy or something like that.
Also, the order of events was:
1. Get Kaylie
2. Perform resurrection spell
3. Set up custard prank
So they didn't bring Kaylie in and show her Scanlan's custard covered corpse. The prank was set up once everyone(including Kaylie) knew he was going to be okay. Plus, the whole prank was as much about the cast pranking Sam for missing an episode to go on vacation as it was about the group pranking Scanlan. The rest of the cast(besides Matt) had no idea what was coming, or where exactly Scanlan's head was at.
The Bard's lament was a very dramatic and intense part of the campaign. It was mostly an excuse for Sam to bring in his new character (who I desperately hope is in S4). He probably mentioned his mother's name once in the first few sessions of their home game, while Percy and Keyleth's parents were actually part of the story, no one playing is expected to actually memorize all that stuff. The fact that they covered his unconscious body with moldy pudding is definitely the nail in the coffin though XD By that point getting resurrected was no big deal really (like when Keyleth went goldfish) so that sort of explains their nonchalance about the situation.
I understand what Sam and CR were facing as they finished season 3. His cancer and them not yet being sure that they'd get a season 4.
However, I'm still heartbroken we didn't get The Bard's Lament!
There were various in-game and out-of-game reasons for how A Bard's Lament went down. I do recall Sam saying in either the talk show or another interview or something that he didn't create Scanlan to be serious in any way. He'd never played DnD before playing with these guys. He didn't realize how deep and serious it could get. And at some point during the live stream when all these dramatic, deeply meaningful events were happening that involved everyone else's backstory, he realized that Scanlan didn't really fit in quite the same.
So after he died during the fight with the last dragon, he communicated those thoughts to Matt, and they came up with a way to give Scanlan at least one really big dramatic arc as well as a temporary exit from Vox Machina. And it took both the cast, the fans, and even the production team by surprise. Liam thought this was Sam's way of quitting the show. The production crew were throwing things at Sam at the end of that episode. It was unbelievably heartbreaking, only for him to troll us all 5 minutes later with a new character. lol
In the show all of the character’s negative trait’s were toned down so they would be more likeable.
Like covering him and his room in pudding and tying him up and leaving his unconscious body alone for days to sit in it. So most of the moment’s where the group was outa line with Scanlan were cut Because being limited to 20ish minutes an episode and being limited to 12 episodes a season they obviously had to cut a lot of content, some of that content showcasing that while they were a family there was group’s within that family like.
Vax/Vex/Keyleth/Percy were much closer and spent much more time with each other than they ever spent with Scanlan/Grog/Pike and because Ashley could barely play in Campaign 1 (she was busy filming a show) Pike was barely there. So unlike the show, Scanlan for a long time was spiralling into a deeper depression and the only one he was genuinely friends with was Grog and as great as the big guy is, Scanlan felt like he had no one to talk to and while not completely in the right, Scanlan did make some points that would make more sense if you watched the campaign, like him kinda being the 3rd wheel of the group and being treated differently and sometimes lesser especially by Vex and Percy.
And it’s more of a game thing than an actual narrative thing but at the point in the story when Scanlan died, everyone except keyleth and Vax had also died so the players, while they still did care, they were used to just reviving whoever went down at that point so Scanlan’s death was kinda treated a little less important hence the “prank” on his body. Also in the campaign Scanlan and kaylie had a very important talk that’s integral to Scanlan as a person (he’s never gave a shit about his own life, like ever. That’s why he’s always the first to offer himself as the “distraction”) so when kaylie makes him promise to not die it ways on him heavily. That talk hasn’t really happened in the show yet. Really the only reason why the Lament is so different is because they didn’t know they would get another season and didn’t wanna end on a downer. So they made it more hopeful, if they had known they would get another season it would of been much closer to the original Lament.
Keyleth crashing out was controversial in the chat at the time, but I’ve always loved it
Yes, Sam (Scanlan) sometimes thinks of the songs ahead of the time. He has answered questions about it, often coming up with stuff during Los Angeles commuting (which can be long), listening to music in the car.
You guys should watch a compilation of all Sam Riegel's songs from the first campaign. One of the best parts was his constant hilarious singing
Couple that with his add reads and I'd click on that video so damn fast.
honestly, i rarely "watch" the sessions and more listen to them while i am doing other things. perfect way to multitask.
so glad you all did this!
Just want to clarify a little bit about Scanlan's outburst at the end during The Bard's Lament, since you wouldn't be able to know what caused such a difference without watching the full campaign(No spoilers, of course).
In the animated show, Pike and Scanlan get a lot of time together to develop that bond, but in the actual campaign Pike was actual rarely there. Ashley had to leave often because she was filming a tv series at the same time, so Pike was often not with the group. If you remember back in season 1 when pike goes off on her own for most of the season and then Astral Projects into Whitestone for an episode or two at the end before she disappears again, in the actual campaign, her Astral Projection was the explanation for why she would be gone from the group for 5-6 livestreams in a row and then be back for 1 or 2 before disappearing again.
She wasn't actually around with the group for a lot of the campaign, so most of those moments in the animated show where Scanlan would confide in Pike never happened originally. Because of that Scanlan didn't really have anyone to talk to about it, leading to his outburst.
At 1:15:20 y'all saw them talk a little bit about it being different, but Sam had mentioned elsewhere that having Pike around to talk to in the animated show was a main part of why the animated Scanlan didn't end up the same as he was in the campaign.
Yeah no they covered him in actual pudding, put him in a nightgown and tied his hands to bedposts while he was unconscious in a typical "haha its dnd and this character is a jokester" moment and Sam made an awesome choice to be *furious* about it
There's a lot more there that everyone says in the moment, it's an incredible interaction by everyone.
24:40 If I remember right, Keyleth jumped because there was a diamond in the water that Vex wanted because she's Vex.
I'd say that yeah, the diamond was the end goal. But, the reason for jumping instead of, say, turning into a bird, was because she thought it would look cooler. Keyleth made interesting decisions in pursuit of coolness throughout the campaign. Some even turned out cool. 😎😎
no "fix him"?
The goldfish thing is just a great example of the player's brain glitching out in the moment.
24:42 "Why did she jump?" One word answer: Diamond!! 🤣
Wanted to please her not girlfriend Vex. lol
Remember Pike was absent like a lot a lot, so almost every interaction in the show was completely new, so she never really had those heart to heart talks with Scanlan at the table.
Hence why Scanlan is so angr.
"They did WHAT with pudding?" lmao
No, the mansion or any spell that takes a minute to cast would not be useful mid combat. D&D combat usually only lasts a few rounds (often ending within 20 seconds from the character's point of view). If you actually have a combat that goes a full minute (10 rounds of combat) you are in the title fight of your life.
These things happened so long ago, so I'm not sure I remember all the details. When Scanlan was resurrected, the group kind of made the situation lite by putting stuff on his body, including actual pudding. While I forget what his daughter thought in that moment, he did leave to spend more time with her. Scanlan's anger hurt because not only did he have a point, but some people at the table thought real-world things were affecting the game, like Sam was leaving.
Pike was gone for much of the game. Sam had said Scanland leaving would not happen if Pike had been around more so In the animated show Pike is around so their is less reason for him to leave.
Yeah, the last scene was pretty different from the campaign. There's plenty of understandable reasons for why they made the change, though I know some fans dislike that it was different. There's still some possibility that they do a more campaign accurate version later. Maybe as a what-if style vision for Pike of how the team would be without her around since she seems to be being setup for an arc around her faith and an in-universe explanation for Scanlan having a better relationship with his daughter is Pike being there to support him (which wasn't the case in the game because Ashley was in NYC and couldn't participate in every game).
I like how everyone seems to forget that Pike was actually in the room for A Bard's Lament. Ashley wasn't there, but Pike was.
I know there's a big difference between the character being present and the player actually being at the table, but I just feel that Pike supposedly being able to change things is vastly overstated by many(not so much this comment, but many others). In the campaign wrap-up, Sam was asked if anything could have changed his mind. He said maybe Pike, but he said it in a way that indicated it would've been a long shot. Scanlan was very committed to leaving(he was in a terrible headspace at the time - extremely depressed, addicted to drugs, with deep feelings of isolation, failure, and worthlessness).
The cast could see some of it happening(mostly the drugs), but the group couldn't because Scanlan's charisma/deception was so high he was always able to beat their insight checks with his deception. It's possible Pike might have been able to spot it(insight +10 at the time), but Scanlan's +22 deception was pretty insane to beat. (Keyleth had a better chance with a +17 insight, but Scanlan beat her the times she tried to insight check him about his drug use.)
The Bath scene is still at the top of my personal list. :)
What should you guys watch next let's see
Venom the last dance
You guys are missing percy and vexs "talk"and keyleth getting kash (instead of vax) you need to warch those lol😂
1:01:13 that's the thing about the animation, they cut a lot of their dorky/ dumb@ss moments, which I get because they have a severe time limit. But the true delight of VM is that they are BOTH Insane bad@sses AND huge dorks that epically fail at basic tasks lol.
Scanlan was doing drugs, being chaotic, having less impressive songs for a long time and not talking to anyone about his problems, he was a lot more buddy buddy with grog but kept pike at an arms length. mythcarver wasn't even that big of a deal to him, so to him being with the group was just hazardous to his health as he died two days in a row.
You probably shouldn't have watched the Keyfish moment as that'll probably happen in S4 but the reason she jumped was because they lost a diamond in the ocean and she was trying to retrieved it by 'Pocahontas-ing' off a cliff.
I doubt it. It's not really important to the overall story.
They've hinted that the Easter egg will be as close as we get, saying it's just too hard to make it make sense in the story without seriously lessening the weight of a character death
@@sandpiperr yea cause I think they are going a different direction with the person that mini arc that event occured in was centered around. I know alot of people think we will get the keyfish moment but I just don't see a reason given the story changes.
@@darkguardian50 Honestly, I do not get why people are so obsessed with it! It was a funny in-game moment, but it makes no sense to go out of their way to put it in the show.
Yeah Trinket was pretty much completely useless the whole campaign XD Just a poorly designed subclass where you get a beast companion but they're turbo turd
"She was so badass in the show." Yeah Marisha had it rough the first season, she got a lot of unnecessary hate. Granted she wasn't very good with the technical part of the game early on in the first campaign and made some really big blunders due to not reading the effects of her spells. I feel, once they all realized that Critical Role was going somewhere they all kinda tightened up their play and knowledge of the rules. Marisha was easily the most improved player by the end of the campaign, like with that clutch feeble spell. When campaign 2 started she was a beast. She was clutch is so many situations. You're gonna love the Mighty Nein.
Yeah well that "she was so badass in the show" comment does reflect why RPG stream watchers can be so annoying sometimes. It's a freaking dice roll! It's literally random and it's not like people don't know that, so I don't get why viewers made it so personal.
And don't even try the "but she didn't learn her spells" stuff because that comment was around her rolling a natural 1 on an athletics check to jump 6 feet. That had nothing to do with how well Marisha did or didn't know the rules. It was just bad luck.
and a lot of people complaining about her forget shes playing a moon druid, the most complex and overwhelming subclass of the most complex and overwhelming class. the fact she wasnt more confused is impressive
Nope, it was actual pudding. Percy's idea and the others went along with the "prank." I was shocked. Several characters died during the campaign but I don't remember anyone ever having their corpse disrespected in such a way. And then for Kaylie to see him like that. I genuinely disliked the rest of the cast for a good while after that moment.
I’ve personally never liked Bard’s Lament, with Scanlan crashing out and leaving the group. My esteem for the character never really recovered after that point, though there is a moment between *Sam* and Liam in the final big battle that is maybe my favorite moment of the entire campaign. Scanlan’s tirade wasn’t completely out of left field (the pudding thing was always awful and I never understood it) but it still didn’t feel earned or reasonable. More like a selfish temper tantrum (from the character, it’s never been a Sam issue, in my opinion) and it always just kind of felt incongruous. I’m personally glad they went a different way in the show.
Nah. It was earned why scanlan basically exploded on them. Sam had mentioned before where there was a reddit post that essentially described how scanlan was feeling. It ties in with Robin Williams. This blow up was basically something that had been brewing for a while. That's why he had been taking drugs..
Scanlan earned his blow up because up to that point he had multiple close calls with death and even died a couple of times. Ever since he found out he was a father, his life changed. He had been trying to be safe while building a relationship with her. He's even made a promise to her (before this death) he'll come back after the fight and he went and died.. Then he wakes up from the ritual to them basically shitting on him (I believe they had smeared him up with poo or like dressed him up in a costume or something as a joke before he woke up I forget clearly). He just got fed up and exploded.
Though he did clarify later that had Ashley been there physically to talk as Pike, she was probably the only person that could have prevented him from leaving..😂
Sorry, but it was boring on the show. I get all the reasons they did it the way they did on the show, but it still just was not as impactful at all for them to just peacefully go their separate ways.
As for the fact that Scanlan's rant wasn't 100% justified, if you actually thought about it you'd realize that's what makes compelling characters that seem more real. People don't always act reasonably, and aren't always able to see beyond their own persective especially when they're struggling with depression!
Sure, I get all that. It was poorly handled in the original stream. In fairness to them, it’s hard to seed such complex moments when everything is RP and unscripted. So it’s understandable and not anybody’s fault, but that doesn’t make it really *work* in the stream. It’s an RP moment, and it was a big swing, but that doesn’t make the final result good. As they’ve said in interviews (including a clip shown right here in this video) they weren’t sure they were getting a 4th season, and it would have been a pretty unsatisfying final note for what could’ve been the final season of the show. All that on top of the fact that it’s not a well-executed beat to begin with. It really is better this way.
Like, characters being flawed is good. Characters acting incongruently and against their own nature out of left field? Not as much, and that’s what the original stream version of Bard’s lament was. Again, it’s a complex thing to try and seed via improvisation and RP, not anybody’s fault. But still, it being understandable doesn’t make it good.
I don't like BL, but it was definitely IC for Scanlan.
Throughout the campaign he was a narcissistic manipulator with abusive tendencies even when he wasn't on drugs (of course, since a lot of the fandom finds Sam funny, the character's given a free pass for this behavior).
Add drugs and depression to the mix and this is what you get, the classic tune:
🎶"Nobody loves me, everybody hates me."🎶
He was already unapologetically mind raping friends and allies. What's a little gaslighting added to the mix with the whole "What's my mother's name?" thing? As if he ever told them anything when they did ask, and I know Vax, at the very least, had tried to talk to him before and he blew him off.
As someone who had to deal with someone very much like this in real life, I give Sam props for his acting, but that episode is what took me from mere dislike of the character to hatred.
I'm glad they changed him in the animated series and I'm really glad they didn't include BL. As it is, I still don't _like_ LOVM Scanlan, but I can at least tolerate him.