You continue to confirm my assessment of you as one of the best teachers that I have ever encountered. You take a well-known incident and break down what was done correctly, what was not, and how to fix it. On top of that you turn it into a cautionary tale for the smug observers who feel themselves immune to things like this. It is from such complacency that disasters are born. Everybody reading this can probably come up with a half dozen without much thought.
As a certified IMC glider pilot, we're taught how to attempt to interpret changes (yes, changes) in airspeed, vertical speed, and altitude, in an attempt to form a mental simulation of an artificial horizon. However, we're also taught that it's not enough. And I taught myself that lesson very clearly one day. I was climbing underneath a cumulus cloud in a thermal (method #1 in the video). The nature of a thermal is that the cloud at the top of the thermal tends to grow with with time (until such time that it stops the incidence of sunlight on the ground and the thermal goes away). In this case, when I started the climb I was in clear air, but as I progressed I climbed into cloud for parts of my circling flight path. Each circle I spent more time in IMC conditions, but I felt that with my training I had things sufficiently under control that I could continue, especially as I had at least 50% of the time in clear air. That is, until the one circuit where I came out of the cloud inverted. I had managed to perform a perfectly balanced half roll, without even being aware of, in a 180* turn. I will say that the impression that the ground beneath me had turned blue, and that the church square that was now several thousand feet above me was the sky, was disorientating in and of itself to say the least. My brain was 180 degrees away from reality. The most difficult lesson of all to understand as humans is to actualize our limitations, and act upon that knowledge. Understanding when we are wrong, and taking the correct action in those circumstances is fundamentally unnatural, yet part of every pilot's mental toolbox. Those insights take time to form, hence the supreme importance of margins. I cannot thankyou enough for that being stressed in this video. We are biological Homo Sapiens. We need time to process and react.
This and the fact that glider craft have no meaningful transponders (FLARM doesn't count) to be detected by ATC and other aircraft is why cloud flying is strictly banned in my country. I was under the impression that this rule was universal but I have heard rumours that American clubs don't have terribly good safety culture, at least compared to Australian. On the FLARM front, while it does act as a transponder it only works if the other craft also has FLARM, which is only gliders and surprisingly some RC aircraft. ADSB might be changing this in the future but last I heard it isn't required for non traditional craft
@@kkrampus In many European countries glider cloud flying is allowed. It is of course regulated: - The aircraft must have proper instruments. In addition to the ones in this craft at least turn indicator and/or artificial horizon. - The pilot must have instrument rating - The airspace must be reserved for that activity - so no other traffic - The glider pilots keep each other informed by declaring when entering/exiting the clouds
Staffan, would you say that being in a glider this situation was easier recovered from than in a powered aircraft ? There are many instances of small aircraft (even jets) where once the pilot loses awareness in the clouds, even thousands of feet above the ground, they never recover. Up to AF447 of course.
@@kkrampus If I remember FLARM was originally to keep gliders and helicopters in alpine areas apart as they both fly in similar altitudes. It has expanded from that somewhat now though.
"He reaches for the speedbrake handle". Actually, he pushes it firmly forward to ensure they don't open on their own at this high speed. This is a safety measure taught for contest finishes where you finish the race at low altitude and high speed. If you open the airbrakes at that speed and that altitude, you won't slow down, you'll just hit the ground.
Thomas, could you elobrate on my you would not break but just "hit the ground". I imagine it would overload beyond spec, but a definitive crash? And what if you partially deploy them?
Airbrakes are locked as that is part of your pre flight checks and before you have cable on the person before attaching the cable will ask you and you confirm then they look and confirm AIRBREAKS CLOSED AND LOCKED they wont open without a pilot input
@@maseratifittipaldi what does that have to do with flying. If anything, you want less distractions. Whether its romantic partner or ur buddy (or want to shoot the shit). Look how that small mistake compounded quickly to almost a disaster.
It may not be strictly applicable to this situation but a wise gliding instructor told me, "It's much better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here."
Yes, it CAN happen to you. I was a low hour student pilot with a solo endorsement (in the U.S.) flying alone from one airport, where my grandfather kept our 182, to another airfield across town where I took my lessons. Unstable summer weather was moving in, and I was heading into IFR conditions. 2/3rds of the way to the airfield where my instructor was waiting to meet me at his FBO for my weekly lesson, I realized I was visually “feeling” my way to the airfield using the ground just below for dead reckoning out the side window, as I could no longer see forward beyond the windshield. Suddenly I asked myself, “What are you doing? Stop feeling pressured to make your lesson, consider what's happening and use common sense.” I decided to return to my airport of origin and called the tower of another airport I transitioned over in between. I calmly explained I was a student, solo, encountering IFR conditions and that I needed to turn around and transition back. I was given clearance to do so, and now, with no outside reference remaining below, I used my limited hood training experience to make a 180 degree turn back and focused on my instruments to get me out of the soup I was in. Five long minutes later I could again see the ground below, outside the side window, and the airport I was transitioning over was now just below. I called in to report my position and then proceeded, VFR, back home. NEVER PANIC. I kept my cool in that situation and focused on the task at hand which was flying the airplane using all I'd learned to that point. After putting the plane away I called my instructor from the terminal to cancel my lesson and lived to fly another day.
Thanks guys. The point I should have emphasized is that I was so unconsciously focused on achieving my initial goal, which was being punctual for my flight lesson, that I continued pursuing that goal to the point I was using whatever means I had left to reach it, which was following landmarks on the ground out the side window. My unconscious focus on that goal distracted me from seeing what should have been obvious signs that I was headed into a dangerous situation (moving towards weather that was moving towards me, slowly diminishing visibility, etc). Luckily I had my epiphany when I did, which was probably not long before being too late, because I had no idea I was being swallowed up as much as I was. Fortunately I never got scared, hence I didn’t panic. I did, however become seriously concerned, which inspired me to focus on what little training and experience I had to do what was necessary. DO NOT BECOME PREOCCUPIED, whether consciously or unconsciously, WITH WHAT IS ULTIMATELY UNIMPORTANT (not wanting to keep my flight instructor waiting) AT THE EXPENSE OF WHAT IS TRULY IMPORTANT (not suddenly finding oneself in a life or death situation you should have clearly seen coming ). YES, IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE INCLUDING YOU! Hope my story can prevent at least one pilot from finding themselves in this situation.
The critical error happens at 8:15. He actively steers the aircraft left into an area with no escape route. Be it terrain or clouds, this is a death sentence in aviation. From this point on they are relying on luck. Up until around 9:00 they could have executed a 180 and be perfectly safe. VMC to IMC is scary. It happend to me twice and you need to react quickly.
As a gliding instructor of many years experience, I think you have given an excellent assessment of this situation. As usual is is a case of assessing your margins and not pushing your flying limitations. Always better safe than sorry. Good advice.
One day, a helicopter was flying over Seattle when they were surprised by heavy fog. Didn't find the way back to the airport. The pilot then stopped the heli in front of a skyscraper, flashed the landing lights to alert the people inside, and held a sheet of of paper against the windscreen: "We got lost! Where are we?" Someone in the building then also held a note against the window: "You're in a helicopter." Another note from the pilot, "Thank you!" and a thumbs up, then he flew back to the airport and landed safely. Now, the co-pilot didn't quite get it. "How the hell did you know where we were with that info?" "Easy. Could only have been the Microsoft offices. The response from support is technically correct, but still completely useless!"
Airforceproud95 flew over the microsoft offices relatively recently if you are interested. They are pretty sprawling though, not a skyscraper unfortunately. But you can use it to navigate.
Version of that... "Man in a balloon [...] lost [...] asks man on the ground [...] "You're in a balloon". "Ah, you must be an engineer/programmer/whatev, because [...]" "And you must be a project manager / vision strategist / CEO" "Eh, how did you know?" "Because you are completely lost, have no idea how to control that thing, you don't know where you are going, and you come descending on me, expecting me to fix all that for you. You are in exactly the same position as 2 minutes ago, but now it is suddenly _my_ fault."
Ahh the oldies and goldies. I first heard that one in relation to IBM's offices at Chiswick on the approach to Heathrow in the 70's. I guess companies come and go but the quality of technical support remains the same!
I'm really impressed by the student. I mean he give great call outs, reacts in the right way, and takes control. At that point he's doing everything right. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.
Really good episode this time. I have been glider pilot for over ten years and gliding is the true flying - I can confirm that we had many professional pilots in the club and they all said the same. The way you describe this situation it very respectful to our hobby. Much appreciated!
@@MentourPilot Likewise in agreement on the analysis. There's a quote from an episode of Mayday / Air Crash Investigation (I think it was a 747 that lost situational awareness and nearly ripped the plane apart recovering it), and one of the passengers said at the end of the episode, "They may have gotten us into that situation, but they got us out of it." That's what margins are for. And although this was WAY TOO CLOSE for comfort... the student DID get his instructor down safe.
I am both a glider pilot (though very un-current) and a "power" pilot based in New Zealand. I watch a lot of accident videos, both fatal and not, to learn what I can. This was by far and away the hardest to watch. I won't comment too much as the incident is likely subject to investigation; however, I do have a few remarks that may be of interest to some. My understanding (and I stand to be corrected) is that while the person in the front seat was in fact a "student", he was also a powered aircraft pilot so he perhaps had considerably more experience than other gliding students might. This probably had a significant contribution to the positive exchange of controls that you noted. (While I haven't flown a DG-1000 personally, I have flown rear cockpit in a number of types, and there is typically far better visibility from the front cockpit than the rear which may have also contributed to the instructors willingness to relinquish the controls.) In terms of VFR minima in New Zealand, at their altitude, they were only required to be "clear of cloud" and "in sight of the ground". Even at higher altitudes, there is an exemption for gliders allowing them to operate within 500 ft of the cloud base. There was some suggestion that the go-pro being dislodged was due to contact with terrain. The pilots and the gliding club have denied this. It's a little hard to tell, but it looks like the G-meter showed an 8G pull-out. Plenty enough to move a go-pro mount. As you noted, they did go on to make a successful paddock landing (a common occurrence in gliding) and both pilots are (physically) unharmed. The glider was reported to have been fully inspected after the occurrence, and no damage was found. I loved the discussion of margins versus errors. That's really the key to the whole thing that is often absent from the conversation. Also worth noting, once they were in the cloud, they also entered very strong sink suggesting that the can been blown onto the leeward side of the ridge - not somewhere you want to be in a glider even in clear skies. I'm not going to defend OR vilify them. Ultimately, they are very, very, very lucky. I hope I never make the chain of mistakes required to put myself in that position, and I'm just glad they're okay. Also...way to stay calm!
There is a great utube channel called Balleka.... check it out. Fantastic footage by a great glider pilot who was a trained 747 transport pilot.... Sadly was as he killed himself in a gliding accident. If a pro aviator like him can kill himself then what chance do I have with my minimal experience 🤔 I have to ask myself. Don't think it can never happen to you.
He is literally training right there. If you can learn what you already trained, you won't get far. I'm just surprised there is any form of plane without a artificial horizon out there.
@@5Andysalive Every aircraft is designed to do something different. This glider doesn't have an artificial horizon because nobody should use it for IFR, never. If you do that, it is ok, and you are using your aircraft appropriately.
Interesting. I was a student pilot in Florida in the mid 80's. One day I took off in the Cessna 172 for touch and go practice and before I knew it cloud had shrouded the airport, I recall being in a climb for what seemed an eternity (probably was more like seconds), I could not see a thing outside the cockpit. I recall focusing on the instruments, particularly my attitude, rate of climb and speed and headed for a break in the clouds and eventually landed, thankfully on the runway. I really thought my time was up, I was only 19 and it terrified me. I was never really the same after that, I no longer felt comfortable up in a plane by myself so never did get my a PPL. It was probably for the best, my poor sense of direction and lack of spatial awareness is legendary, but I still love everything aviation!
I flinched as soon as i saw the vario drop down below 6 o'clock when they were in cloud cover. During that kind of soaring, this is a clear indication that you drifted into the downwind side of the ridge where you will get caught in downdrafts. You can see their altitude melting away by the second. The fact that this happened in the clouds and at low elevation makes it all the more scarier.
Well said, it can happen while driving on the roads. As 10 wheel truck driver in the past, carrying 60 thousand lbs of gavel, I had to plan ahead, always scanning the road, keeping my truck in the pocket.
Reminds me of riding a motorcycle. Always assume the car you’re coming up on does not see you/or is actively trying to kill you lol. Leave some margins for that
Very true about margins. I’m a motorcycle rider, which some consider to be a lapse in judgement itself. A biker needs to avoid piling on more lapses and running out of road. I used to live not far from some beautiful winding canyon roads, and almost every weekend, some squid failed to make a curve. The worst aftermath I saw was some kid that leaned over the centerline into oncoming traffic. There were worse fatalities, but the rider ended up at the bottom of a cliff, so I can’t claim to have witnessed anything beyond S&R preparing to rappel.
Exactly. And it supports his point that this could happen to anybody; not respecting these guys makes it too easy to write them off as people who don’t know what they’re doing, ‘unlike me’.
Hi Petr At around 15 minutes in, you mention the student pilot reaching for the speed brake to possibly slow the aircraft down. In a glider the speed brake [or more accurately, the spoiler] will do absolutely nothing to decrease speed. It induces sink [or reduction of altitude] and at a very rapid rate. A glider's speed is controlled entirely by elevator- nose up, slow down. "That would have gotten them into an even trickier situation" is an understatement. They would have been in the trees in seconds! Again, very informative post. Thanks again. Just an aside and not being picky, the verb for the noun condensation is condense, not condensate. Before RUclips, I pronounced pitot [peeto] tubes "pit ot". Glad to be corrected on that one!
Captain Hindsight has always been one of the best teachers in aviation, but it must be addressed and delivered in a constructed manner. This video is a good example of how to properly leverage a pilot mistake and turn it into a valuable teaching moment for all. Pilot error (and how common is VFR into IMC, right?) should always be owned and addressed, but not with shame. The advent of compact, cheap and easy video equipment has provided the aviation world treasure troves of life saving lessons. It is imperative that we use it to it's absolute fullest extent so it is productive and valuable to everyone, even the poor guy who made the mistake to begin with. So I get a little irked when I see people making damning comments, it does no one any good, and as a result, may also be just more motivation for future mistakes to remain hidden rather than open for all to see and learn from.
Sooner or later, you HAVE to get out of class, away from the simulation on the PC or even the legit' simulator, and actually GO FLY THE DAMN PLANE if you're ever going to learn how to actually fly a damn plane... Put into perspective, I've put probably a million miles under 2 wheels since I got my street-bike license at 15... That was 30 YEARS and A DOZEN COUNTRIES ago... I SUCKED at riding when I first put my leg over a saddle! EVERYBODY sucked at whatever they did IN THE BEGINNING... We only ever get to learn by making mistakes... figuring out where those mistakes come from, and rectifying the issues that caused them, whether it's a miscalculation, piss poor sensitivity to mechanical feedback, impatience with controls, or just a lapse in judgment... whatever... We get ourselves into trouble, get a little freaked out, HOPEFULLY avoid the outright accidents, and then analyze and adjust for the next "trial"... While I do admit that there are just certain individuals who have no business with certain machines, it takes something particularly egregious to suggest someone actually will never have any business in said machine. This was a small miscalculation type of error... They happen. The hope (with experience) is that over time these kinds of errors get farther and fewer between as the pilot or machine-operator "gets seasoned"... ;o)
Especially when flying a glider. It feels very smooth and serene - almost slow. But you are actually travelling very fast and the situation can change very quickly.
I AM a pilot, and you would be utterly AMAZED at just how quickly things can go wrong! I've been there and done that, fortunately without EVER bending the airplane. There's usually never just one thing that brings an airplane down, it's nearly always a cascade of events that bring an aircraft down.
That's often the way it happens, your statement is so very true. Though sometimes the event drags out as system failures compound with complex decision making. I've seen that also. But a rapid gotcha, can be the worst.
Even though both you and Blancoliro did a video on the same subject, I love hearing about it from both of you. In fact, you both have your own spin on things and hearing from several professionals on this is never a bad thing!
I agree. I am interested in the bravo 2 zero mission of the gulf war. several members of it have books out telling the story from thier point of view plus one that tries to debunk the story by someone no involved. having read all , I have a much clearer picture of what really happened. there are also books not about that story but in same time frame that describe things that add authenticity . so hearing a story from so many angles builds the big picture of what is the truth
Different takes, but they’re not in disagreement. I saw Juan’s breakdown first. Mentour’s explanation goes into more detail, but Juan gave me the gist. One thing he said that remained in my mind was that sometimes experienced pilots get complacent, and that can lead to an error in judgement. I’m not a pilot, but this statement has broader applications beyond aviation!
_bzzt!_ "This is your captain speaking. Right now, if you look out your window, perhaps one of you can see where we are. Please tell a flight attendant so that the information can be relayed to the cockpit. Thank you for your time and attention."
Often when doing a C of A airtest usually in a twin after the single engine climb, the pilot has spent 5 mins watching the ASI to maintain exactly the single engine climb speed. I would be in the right hand seat with the clipboard & paperwork, I get passed the map & the pilot says ' your a glider pilot where are we '
I'm a glider pilot in training and my hands are all sweaty just watching this o.O Amazing how fast you can get disoriented inside a cloud and just falling from the skies.
Great analysis. Three things most impressed me in the video 1. It took about five seconds for them to fly from VFR into total IMC. It hit them like a bolt from heaven. 2. The student's voice indicated great stress but his right hand on the stick remained pretty light. At no point did he take a death grip on his controls. His left hand remained in a relaxed position on his thigh. He pulled that one two second high G turn but immediately backed off. 3. As you pointed out, the student did display some real aviator skill. He anticipated and called out a stall spin, quickly corrected, didn't hesitate to call out "I have control" and the instructor did not fight him on it. Change your underwear scary for the crew, no one was hurt and I'll bet they learned a lesson or two that they will only want to repeat in a simulator.
I loved the comment on giving margins! Margins are more than just what's in an FAA book. If the flying is beyond your abilities - stay on the ground. It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air - than in the air wishing you were on the ground. I'm a glider pilot, and something we say at my club is: you can always take another tow, and there's always tomorrow"
I haven't met anyone with over 100 hours who hasn't done or at least come too close to this. It's always better to be down here wishing you were up there than to be up there wishing you could get down here. I wasn't even in proper clouds (just more or less haze) and realized I was in a slow, turning descent about 400 ft above the Gulf of Mexico when I slammed those throttles and climbed the tin can out just at the stall margins (according to that awful and life-saving horn). I was too busy trying to navigate instead of aviate -- five frequencies, two VORs, no GPS or radar. All that slow flight & power-on stall training kept me here for my kids. Thanks so much for all of these instructive videos. Keep that blue up & brown down.
15 years ago when i was living in Germany (Augsburg) i flew gliders every weekend. A fellow glider pilot lost his right leg after entering such clouds and smashing into a hillside.
As a long time plane nerd, I’m finding your videos fascinating. Your level of detail that you discuss is perfect for my level of aircraft knowledge. It answers so many questions that I’ve had for so long. I really enjoyed the GPWS video. Watching the simulator footage was awesome, yet nerve wracking. This stuff is awesome. Looking forward to more!
For the non-pilots out there, flying into a cloud does to your situational awareness pretty much what loosing your headlights while driving on a moonless night would do to you.
Having watched that video four or five times now I would say it's more like driving into a white out on a twisting mountain road - you just get odd glimpses of things which may, or may not, be the road. (Actually off-piste skiing in a white might be a better analogy - you know it is basically downhill but who put that tree there?)
Done that, no fun! It was on a big curve, I knew the road, and I was doing about 80 kph, when the lights went out. I worked the brakes very carefully and very gently worked the left hand side wheels back and forth between gravel verge, and the black top, for reference. I brought the car to a slow gentle stop, I was worried that if I tried to stop to quickly I might get disoriented. Later I couldn't make up by mind if I would have been better of just slaminging on the brakes, or not. With trees on one side, and a bank and a culvert coming up on the other, probably not.
7G would be above the G limit of that aircraft assuming they had the 20m wingtips installed. I hope they went to the yard and had it properly inspected. Additionally doing that'd give the guys some time to grab a beer and talk about how they'll celebrate their 2nd birthday and make others aware of their mistake and how to avoid it.
@@timoadler6356 i believe that the video was mainly made available due to an insurance case concerning the over G of the glider. Luckily the manufacturer put in some margins, where the pilots didn't.
Great video! I'm a student glider pilot myself, and you are absolutely right. Even though they've got themselves into this situation, it's a miracle they got out of it. I don't think you actually need an artificial horizon for IMC in a glider - our glider was IFR certified, and it only has a turn and slip indicator (similar to turn coordinator). It needs a special battery, and I'm the only one that bothers to connect it every time, so I'm the only one using the instrument, but it could come in handy in a situation like this... And yes, knowledge is absolutely needed! I love meteorology, but every piece of information is very helpful especially in glider decision making.
Doing it with only a turn gyro is quite difficult, as your cross check on AS and altitude is providing much of attitude info, but from lagging instrumentation. Better to get one of the small standby electric AIs, but you need a lot of battery. And no fallback if AI failure happens.
The student got into trouble due to lack of experience, but most importantly he also got out of it and saved the situation without forgetting all his training.
Fun fact, while I was doing some glider training (ASK-21), years ago, the instructor had me fly below a typical summer cumulus (later becoming a CB). The updraft was so strong that in order to descend and not get in IMC, we had to almost reach Vne and pull the spoilers all the way out. We got to the base of the cloud and could start smelling the ozone as it was about to rain. We never got into the cloud, but that was really impressive. Gliders are truly efficient flyers!
in another lifetime i was at driggs, ID flying a high performance glider, and some weather moved in, I had to go to land to pee after a 2 hr flight, i looked above and saw mammatus clouds, i could not descend while pushing down the stick and exceeding max velocity, i had < 100 hrs in a glider, I thought what could I do, I pulled the spoilers and that worked thank god. never was trained to do so. ok one problem solved, then saw virga approaching the runway, shi*, i didn't know that meant downdraft, thankfully it passed the airport before I landed, a tow plane did a go around just previous to me landing because of wind shear, the socks were pointing opposite direction! i landed albeit a little hard b/c of the downdraft, i swear i flared out and still hit a little hard. everything good, much learned. i was shaking after I got out of the cockpit.
....and the video caused @Mentour Pilot's panties to hit dew point filling them with large volumes of moisture that didn't come from cumulonimbus clouds. 0:17
Great analysis! I am a glider pilot, and the worst mistake I made was while ridge flying. It was just a few seconds, and I got out of it, but I realized how little margin you have compared to other forms of glider flying. In thermal gliding you keep far away from terrain, but in ridge flying you are actually pretty close, or rather, terrain is pretty close to you. This takes some getting used to, and I had not fully appreciated just how little time you have to correct a mistake. It was only then that some accidents I had read or heard about started making more sense and that I understood that yes, it could happen to me too.
What I appreciate the most about this video is your respect for the pilots. The only people that really knew exactly what was happening here were the two people in the cockpit. What you do here is compliment their strong airmanship and constructively point out some suggestions that might reduce the chance of this happening to someone else. No more. You just suggest. This showcases your own professionalism as much as theirs.
The biggest airliner that I've been in was an a340 and even in that, the moment we entered thick clouds the ride got bumpy. I cannot imagine how a featherlight glider with its huge flimsy wings would react in such a situation. Huge respect to that crew and to you for doing such an analysis.
Excelent video Mentour. I do not know why you did not mention an important instrument that is located below in the left side of the panel: G Forces. (on other videos they said that they reach 4 positive G's). Also I've heard that the glider student is a pilot. I am your fan. As a rusty pilot, you make me be on touch with the aviation. Thanks for your honesty and knowledge.
Great share Captain..nice advices.. My bf loves flying this type of aircraft when he's home in Italy and he do hang gliding as well.. Omg regarding the video you reacting its quite scary, they're in middle of clouds..glad they both landed safely..
As always -you cross into the heart of the subject. Margins are always key to successful endeavors. Shoot for center mass, develop plans upon best and worst case scenarios, stay well within you and your equipments’ optimum operating parameters-not limitations. As a previous comment mentioned- you truly are the best of what an instructor should aspire to become.
Great analysis video, as indeed Mentour Pilot always produces. Years ago, I was doing my private pilot's licence on a restricted licence doing training circuits, and it was a mostly clear day, flying VFR. On the base leg I went through some small clouds for a very short time, but it must have seemed longer, and felt a little of this spacial disorientation people talk about. Fortunately for myself, I soon came out of it, but after landing the plane, I realised the seriousness of the situation. I get all sweaty just thinking about it these days....
Great video again, Petter! Love these instructional commentaries. Your aircrash report videos are also so interesting and filled with quality information. I appreciate what you doing!
My brother is a glider instructor, and he believes the instructor made a big mistake being too close to the clouds. After receiving his instructor certificate, his instructor told my brother, Don’t let your student Kill you! I believe the instructor in this case should have made an Exit Stage Right!
It only takes one mistake in the cockpit to end your life and many others. Ask the pilot of American Airlines 965. 13,000 hours and a premier pilot made one mistake in the FMC and boom, everyone but 4 dead.
@@ooo_Kim_Chi_ooo is that the one where neither the pilot nor copilot remember to turn off the speed brakes, if they had they would have had sufficient rate of climb to clear the top of the mountain?
@@jpe1 American Airlines 965, 20-Dec-1995 survivors: 4/155, 0/8, GTI (Get-There-Itis), loss of situational awareness, CFIT and yes that is the one where the speed brakes sealed their fate.
A Bell Jetranger took off from Biggin Hill on a cold, damp, December morning with 4 passengers on board. Their destination was a venue near the south coast, for a company, Christmas party. Within about 2 minutes after take off the pilot declared that the weather had closed in and was going to return to EGKB. They didn’t make it. The aircraft was flown into a forest covered hillside during a turn back to the airfield, and the 4 passengers and pilot were killed. As a police officer on duty on that morning I was one of the first few to arrive at the scene. It was horrific! I won’t describe what I saw, but I always remember thinking how quickly the weather caught them out. From having vision, to having no vision. Scary!
I love Mentour Pilot! I plan to get my part 61 as soon as Covid-19 subsides and these fair video analysis are an inspiration to the type of pilot I hope to become.
I've had some scary situations in military aviation flying in mountains with questionable weather. As a crew we all had to agree to push a bad situation and even then decided to turn back. Thankfully in a helicopter you have far better options to hover taxi. Still I feel for both the pilot and instructor and thankful they made it out alive, hopefully they have both learned as should everyone how quickly a situation can turn bad. As an airman, you can see where they went wrong and what you would potentially do. But to be there and have to make the decisions in the cockpit and with the pressures they were under, many pilots would not have been quite so lucky. Great video breaking the very near miss down and hopefully a lesson learnt for all that watch it too.
Hi @MentourPilot, thank you very much for pointing out that thinks like this can happen to everyone so that we all shall learn from this incident rather than mocking both pilots. I appreciate this sort of voice of reason very much. Ciao
Kudos to the student for having the confidence to take control from the instructor. Kudos to the instructor for creating an environment where the student is empowered and confident enough to do so. That said, smells like normalization of deviance to me. They've gone against regulations flying through small amounts of cloud before, and gotten away with it. Done it enough to feel confident in the outcome, until one day....
When I was being instructed on how to fly on a ridge, the instructor made me put myself into situations that could be hazardous, although we were flying VRF it was easy to get pushed over the back of the ridge if you were not observing what was happening, you can be flying along the top of the ridge, then all of a sudden you hit tremendous sink, remedy, turn into wind away from the ridge. If I had been in this situation I would have turned 90 deg from the ridge, hopefully clear of cloud and more importantly away from the ridge. What I was surprised at was when they hit very strong sink they did not turn away but kept on the same heading. IMOP a recipe for a disaster. Just shows how much they had turned in cloud when the ridge appeared on their right hand side.
If you are learning to fly gliders be sure to understand that the Airbrakes/Spoilers/Divebrakes are not actually airspeed controls they are descent mechanisms .
Sadly, my best friend got killed flying in IMC in the mountains in 1996. He was a well trained IFR pilot but got complacent I guess. Anyway, that even sometimes happens to airline pilots. Take the Cali incident with AA for instance. Thanks for the comments - universal wisdoms too often discarded; aviation is rarely forgiving of pilot error.
I am a glider pilot and that scared the hell outta me way before the incident. Inside a cloud without the right instruments and training your life expectancy is about 45 seconds. To watch this is like seeing a disaster approaching in slow motion and these guys doing nothing about it. You are watching them slowly painting themselves into a corner.
Hot clip in the av community. What a wild ride. Lucky as hell, quite easily avoidable. Most pilots don't get the chance to learn from such a series of poor decisions. Props to the student for fighting his way out of that.
This is not the first time similar things have happened on that part of the New Zealand Kaimai range. Over 60 years ago, I was an instructor at the local club, flying in a basic two-seat Rhonlerche with a student in almost identical conditions. The student had control while my attention was diverted for less than a minute until I heard, "What do I do now?" When I looked up, we were completely in cloud, with the ridge only a couple of wingspans away. Fortunately, the lift was gentle, and the air was perfectly smooth. "I have control," I replied, holding the stick steady and waiting. "You have control," the student replied without realizing the danger we were in. A minute or so later, we popped out into clear air and went home. A few years later, another glider pilot died on the same ridge when he became disorientated in cloud. In 1963, the Kaimai Range claimed 23 lives when a DC-3 entered the lee-wave downdraught in a storm while attempting an NDB approach to Tauranga Airport. So, I have sympathy for the two pilots involved in the video, and it should be a lesson to all that they should always be aware that we were never intended to fly like birds, and must always keep a margin for error.
My instructor, Jan Driessen, would be freaking out if I had done that with him on board. Spoilers aren't really speed breaks, they increase the rate of descent without increasing forward speed.
Right. Spoilers aren't "speed brakes". They are "lift killers". Speed is controlled by the pitch of the aircraft, not any of the other controls. (Generally speaking, and in level flight at least.) Too many pilots get in trouble thinking of the pitch control as "up and down" instead of "slow and fast".
In many gliders, especially those used in aerobatics, the speed brakes do actually limit the (max) speed as well. Pulling the speed brakes is part of the procedure to regain control and/or avoid overspeeding after for whatever reason having ended up in an undesireable aircraft attitude.
@@benhetland576 Just the same as unusual attitude recovery in a powered aircraft. "Adjust power, stop the turn, nail the altimeter." But that is why I said "level flight" in my comment. Sounds like we are in violent agreement! :-)
I saw this video a couple of days ago and thought, man, don't we all have some stories to tell about our own flying experiences! You did a great job in your analyzing and then explaining what happened and why.
I appreciate the great analysis and recommendations. Especially about having margins. I went to fly a 172 the other day and took a friend, but decided not to go after the run ups had the engine sputtering at 1400, and disappearing at 1700. I called the CFI and he just reprimanded me, saying I’d cooked the engine, but the temps were ok. It was a combination of high air temp, low pressure and high density Alt. I calculated the density Alt at around 3000. I could have probably continued the flight, but I didn’t feel comfortable and didn’t feel like I had those margins you mentioned. 👍 Fly again another day 👍
You really made the right decision. Though, leaning engine for high density altitude might have worked, I imagine you were over rich. But still correct decision.
Give yourself enough margin, not only when flying, even when riding a motor bike. Some motorbike riders think their "fear stripes" (unused part of the tires, because of fear to lean into the curve) are "safety stripes", their margin, but they are not. If you have them because of fear, you cant use them, even when your life depends on it.
The saying goes something like "A superior pilot will use his superior judgement to avoid the situations in which he may be forced to use his superior skills." I think?
When I was an avid bicyclist, I was arriving at work at turned behind a Piper that was doing a run-up. The prop wash blew me over to where I had to flinch my shoulder to keep it off the tarmac. I agree - if you are afraid to use it you will never use it.
I have entered curves on my bike with some speed margin, slower than I reckoned I would have actually been able to do, due to nothing more than a cautious nature; and without fail, there turned out to be a vehicle coming in the opposite direction that I would very likely have clipped had I not have that margin. All I can say it's a very sobering experience, and one not everyone gets to learn from...
Did a little student gliding and was struck by how quickly things could change. We got told to come down and land because a squall line was coming in. Up there it looked a long way away and that we had plenty of time, by the time we were landing it was pretty much upon us. So much so I was still airborne ( inch or two) when the ground crew grabbed the glider, zero ground speed they probably thought I had landed. I was also stuck by the instructor's "oh that's a good one" and "no no no" was to clouds that were not that much different to fly under and get the updrafts. And definitely not allowed near even a wisp of a cloud, a little fluffy cloud could be hiding a big nasty one behind. Late seventies, back when a Blanik was considered the safest ever glider.
When the student becomes the master, that instructor was (IMO) panicking and the student took charge knowing from training and instincts what was needed. That bit was good.
@@aps-pictures9335 (Lacking insight) - Probably intimating that the "Student" may have been competent in a different aspect of flight, rather than being a noob.. - No additional information to give. The other aspect which could be argued, is that the student may need some schooling on impulse control. This is youtube, everyone is entitled to add their bit. Even if it appears to cr&p all over a "personal thesis", oops, dang... lol...
Aircraft that aren't certified for IMC, and are never intended for IMC, do not have them. Gliders are one example. They are fair-weather fliers only. *Some* gliders do have a gyro, but most don't.
@@gromm93 Basically yes. But actually in some European countries IMC for gliders (inside clouds) is allowed. However the glider must have the required instruments, the pilot must have a current instrument license, the airspace must have been reserved for the activity and some special rules of conduct apply.
As a glider pilot, I must say that was an excellent analysis. I would just add one further point, it's sometimes difficult for P2 (student) to question the apparent unconcern of P1. Easy to assume the more experienced pilot is happy with the situation. I've been there - with an instructor merrily giving a sightseeing commentary whilst not attending to our height and the distance back to the airfield.
PS This scared the s**t out of me. Glad it went viral, a few more people now know the joys (!), challenges, and great satisfaction of pure flying without all the distractions of a noisy engine.
I learned No3, luckily not in an accident, traveling by car, took my eyes off the road for a second, and I was just to close to the car in front to brake. Here the lucky part, the car in front was looking into his mirrors, saw me coming hot, and managed to get out of the way >.
The student pilot is the hero here. They made an abvious mistake by flying on the leeward side of the mountain with zero visibility while the beeper clearly sounded like they were dropping like a brick
Let the man who didn't royally screw up/behaved like an ass during their hour building cast the first stone. Truth be told the first time I saw this it really got me sweating, lucky they didn't tore a wing off on that high G turn.
One thing what was not mentioned in the end of the video about take aways. I think it is related a bit to the margins what the Mentour Pilot said. It is what I was learned that you should always have a backup plan, or what so called escape plan from situation. That plan should be 100% sure working. In any situation where the pilot intentionaly pushing his limits. he should always have this escape route if things go wrong. I believe that every pilot through out his pilot career someway constantly pushing his own limits/experiencies. That is inevitable. Pilots are flying alone without instructor most of their time. Most experience gained without instructor survillance. Following this simple rule that you prepare for the worst and have an escape plan from the situation when you are pushing your limits may save your life. Happy landings, cheers.
It reminds me when a captain felt bad, going to Madeira airport and the co-pilot wasn't cerified to land there, they flew back to Lisboa. The best call.
Very good video! I am a glider pilot too. I would like to point out something. You say you are a commercial pilot, but you have no experience as a glider pilot. I am sure you heard about the Gimli Glider. You should make a video about that. A Boeing 767 ran out of fuel over Manitoba, Canada. The captain was able to handle the situation by flying and landing the airliner as if it was a glider. He only could do that because in his freetime he was a glider pilot. So I think pilot training should include gliding, to handle situations when all engines flame out.
One of the few videos where I’m left more impressed by the student than the instructor! Inadvertent IMC is a killer. I would encourage any PPL holder to get an IR for this very situation!
The problem is that's it is difficult if not impossible to install IFR instrumentation in gliders. Maybe an expensive backup electric AI, with a very large Li battery.
@@mrubin3770 Even the solid state gyroscope in your phone is miles better than anything inside your head. A couple of old Android phones in phone holders would be a good start.
@@MikkoRantalainen thank you. I thought those floaty ball ones (like those eyeball balls that always look upward when you roll them) might always align with the horizon.
I really do feel the person at most "fault" here is the instructor. I was a gliding instructor for a few years and the thing that stands out most to me is that until I had watched the video a few times, I couldn't tell who was the pilot in command. I honestly thought it was a mutual flight between two lowish hour pilots. There are a number of places where the instructor should have stopped the student going any further, or just taken control and sorted the situation, but he didn't. I don't know much about the instructor training where this was taken, but my own was very heavy on spotting an evolving situation and stopping it before it went beyond anything I could handle. But, like Mentour said it's all about your margins. The biggest mistake here was not having a margin in the first place.
In the story from the instructor's point of view, he was concentrating on something else when the student was in control. A momentary lapse in judgement while the student made a bigger one. As Mentour pointed out, *you too* will make one of these someday. Everyone does. We're all human here. But yes, that's where those margins come in.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
You continue to confirm my assessment of you as one of the best teachers that I have ever encountered. You take a well-known incident and break down what was done correctly, what was not, and how to fix it. On top of that you turn it into a cautionary tale for the smug observers who feel themselves immune to things like this. It is from such complacency that disasters are born. Everybody reading this can probably come up with a half dozen without much thought.
As a certified IMC glider pilot, we're taught how to attempt to interpret changes (yes, changes) in airspeed, vertical speed, and altitude, in an attempt to form a mental simulation of an artificial horizon. However, we're also taught that it's not enough. And I taught myself that lesson very clearly one day. I was climbing underneath a cumulus cloud in a thermal (method #1 in the video). The nature of a thermal is that the cloud at the top of the thermal tends to grow with with time (until such time that it stops the incidence of sunlight on the ground and the thermal goes away). In this case, when I started the climb I was in clear air, but as I progressed I climbed into cloud for parts of my circling flight path. Each circle I spent more time in IMC conditions, but I felt that with my training I had things sufficiently under control that I could continue, especially as I had at least 50% of the time in clear air. That is, until the one circuit where I came out of the cloud inverted. I had managed to perform a perfectly balanced half roll, without even being aware of, in a 180* turn. I will say that the impression that the ground beneath me had turned blue, and that the church square that was now several thousand feet above me was the sky, was disorientating in and of itself to say the least. My brain was 180 degrees away from reality. The most difficult lesson of all to understand as humans is to actualize our limitations, and act upon that knowledge. Understanding when we are wrong, and taking the correct action in those circumstances is fundamentally unnatural, yet part of every pilot's mental toolbox. Those insights take time to form, hence the supreme importance of margins. I cannot thankyou enough for that being stressed in this video. We are biological Homo Sapiens. We need time to process and react.
Staffan; thank you for your insights too!
This and the fact that glider craft have no meaningful transponders (FLARM doesn't count) to be detected by ATC and other aircraft is why cloud flying is strictly banned in my country. I was under the impression that this rule was universal but I have heard rumours that American clubs don't have terribly good safety culture, at least compared to Australian.
On the FLARM front, while it does act as a transponder it only works if the other craft also has FLARM, which is only gliders and surprisingly some RC aircraft. ADSB might be changing this in the future but last I heard it isn't required for non traditional craft
@@kkrampus In many European countries glider cloud flying is allowed. It is of course regulated:
- The aircraft must have proper instruments. In addition to the ones in this craft at least turn indicator and/or artificial horizon.
- The pilot must have instrument rating
- The airspace must be reserved for that activity - so no other traffic
- The glider pilots keep each other informed by declaring when entering/exiting the clouds
Staffan, would you say that being in a glider this situation was easier recovered from than in a powered aircraft ? There are many instances of small aircraft (even jets) where once the pilot loses awareness in the clouds, even thousands of feet above the ground, they never recover. Up to AF447 of course.
@@kkrampus If I remember FLARM was originally to keep gliders and helicopters in alpine areas apart as they both fly in similar altitudes. It has expanded from that somewhat now though.
"He reaches for the speedbrake handle". Actually, he pushes it firmly forward to ensure they don't open on their own at this high speed. This is a safety measure taught for contest finishes where you finish the race at low altitude and high speed. If you open the airbrakes at that speed and that altitude, you won't slow down, you'll just hit the ground.
Wow. That's cool you would know that. Also pretty scary that you'd have to push that thing "just in case"
Yikes! That would be a less than ideal landing.
That was no contest finish kuck.
Thomas, could you elobrate on my you would not break but just "hit the ground". I imagine it would overload beyond spec, but a definitive crash? And what if you partially deploy them?
Airbrakes are locked as that is part of your pre flight checks and before you have cable on the person before attaching the cable will ask you and you confirm then they look and confirm AIRBREAKS CLOSED AND LOCKED they wont open without a pilot input
Yeah... no matter what you’re piloting - a boat, a car, a glider, an airliner, or a fighter jet - situational awareness is critical.
...add "a woman"
@@maseratifittipaldi what does that have to do with flying. If anything, you want less distractions. Whether its romantic partner or ur buddy (or want to shoot the shit). Look how that small mistake compounded quickly to almost a disaster.
@@situbes.972 Just al little light-hearted jabber, Simtube. "No matter what you're piloting...situational awareness is critical" See?
very true..............but just um...the thing is that i would not PILOT a car 😅
@Harry M Well, for a glider, this _is_ a full set of instruments.
It may not be strictly applicable to this situation but a wise gliding instructor told me, "It's much better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here."
same wise words are spoken at the dropzone amongst jumpers...
Used all the time when I was diving but obviously with the up and down reversed.
@@chrishartmann8069 Among EXPERIENCED jumpers... ;)
Beginners never buy it.
Yup. Heard the same thing in a paragliding class.
It’s better to dream about flying than fly about dreaming. RAF flight safety poster.
Yes, it CAN happen to you. I was a low hour student pilot with a solo endorsement (in the U.S.) flying alone from one airport, where my grandfather kept our 182, to another airfield across town where I took my lessons. Unstable summer weather was moving in, and I was heading into IFR conditions. 2/3rds of the way to the airfield where my instructor was waiting to meet me at his FBO for my weekly lesson, I realized I was visually “feeling” my way to the airfield using the ground just below for dead reckoning out the side window, as I could no longer see forward beyond the windshield. Suddenly I asked myself, “What are you doing? Stop feeling pressured to make your lesson, consider what's happening and use common sense.” I decided to return to my airport of origin and called the tower of another airport I transitioned over in between. I calmly explained I was a student, solo, encountering IFR conditions and that I needed to turn around and transition back. I was given clearance to do so, and now, with no outside reference remaining below, I used my limited hood training experience to make a 180 degree turn back and focused on my instruments to get me out of the soup I was in. Five long minutes later I could again see the ground below, outside the side window, and the airport I was transitioning over was now just below. I called in to report my position and then proceeded, VFR, back home. NEVER PANIC. I kept my cool in that situation and focused on the task at hand which was flying the airplane using all I'd learned to that point. After putting the plane away I called my instructor from the terminal to cancel my lesson and lived to fly another day.
Great story with a happy ending.
@ Dan Wison
It seems that you did complete a flying lesson that day. And one that was invaluable. 👍😉
Thanks guys. The point I should have emphasized is that I was so unconsciously focused on achieving my initial goal, which was being punctual for my flight lesson, that I continued pursuing that goal to the point I was using whatever means I had left to reach it, which was following landmarks on the ground out the side window. My unconscious focus on that goal distracted me from seeing what should have been obvious signs that I was headed into a dangerous situation (moving towards weather that was moving towards me, slowly diminishing visibility, etc). Luckily I had my epiphany when I did, which was probably not long before being too late, because I had no idea I was being swallowed up as much as I was. Fortunately I never got scared, hence I didn’t panic. I did, however become seriously concerned, which inspired me to focus on what little training and experience I had to do what was necessary. DO NOT BECOME PREOCCUPIED, whether consciously or unconsciously, WITH WHAT IS ULTIMATELY UNIMPORTANT (not wanting to keep my flight instructor waiting) AT THE EXPENSE OF WHAT IS TRULY IMPORTANT (not suddenly finding oneself in a life or death situation you should have clearly seen coming ). YES, IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE INCLUDING YOU! Hope my story can prevent at least one pilot from finding themselves in this situation.
Really outstanding decision making from student pilot in C182, which is an outstanding IFR aircraft.
Good call and props for having beaten the case of get-there-itus!!
The critical error happens at 8:15. He actively steers the aircraft left into an area with no escape route. Be it terrain or clouds, this is a death sentence in aviation. From this point on they are relying on luck. Up until around 9:00 they could have executed a 180 and be perfectly safe.
VMC to IMC is scary. It happend to me twice and you need to react quickly.
As a gliding instructor of many years experience, I think you have given an excellent assessment of this situation. As usual is is a case of assessing your margins and not pushing your flying limitations. Always better safe than sorry. Good advice.
One day, a helicopter was flying over Seattle when they were surprised by heavy fog. Didn't find the way back to the airport. The pilot then stopped the heli in front of a skyscraper, flashed the landing lights to alert the people inside, and held a sheet of of paper against the windscreen: "We got lost! Where are we?" Someone in the building then also held a note against the window: "You're in a helicopter." Another note from the pilot, "Thank you!" and a thumbs up, then he flew back to the airport and landed safely.
Now, the co-pilot didn't quite get it. "How the hell did you know where we were with that info?"
"Easy. Could only have been the Microsoft offices. The response from support is technically correct, but still completely useless!"
Airforceproud95 flew over the microsoft offices relatively recently if you are interested. They are pretty sprawling though, not a skyscraper unfortunately. But you can use it to navigate.
@@carbon1255 There is a tower with Microsoft offices in Bellevue, just not on the main campus in Redmond.
Most apt description of M$ ever! Operating M$ software is like flying IMC with no instruments. Blue Screen of Death at any moment.
Version of that...
"Man in a balloon [...] lost [...] asks man on the ground [...]
"You're in a balloon".
"Ah, you must be an engineer/programmer/whatev, because [...]"
"And you must be a project manager / vision strategist / CEO"
"Eh, how did you know?"
"Because you are completely lost, have no idea how to control that thing, you don't know where you are going, and you come descending on me, expecting me to fix all that for you. You are in exactly the same position as 2 minutes ago, but now it is suddenly _my_ fault."
Ahh the oldies and goldies. I first heard that one in relation to IBM's offices at Chiswick on the approach to Heathrow in the 70's. I guess companies come and go but the quality of technical support remains the same!
I can't believe Mentor Pilot has never gone gliding. You need to add this to you to-do list.
It's really good that these pilots shared this video! There's no place for ego in flying IMO.
We learn from mistakes, as long as survive to use lessons.
I'm really impressed by the student. I mean he give great call outs, reacts in the right way, and takes control.
At that point he's doing everything right. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.
Spatial disorientation in IMC is perhaps the biggest killer of pilots in all categories of aviation.
Indeed, that’s why this is so important
not perhaps. It is.
@@MentourPilot your video is great and that an ATPL student who is student aeromedical factors will be a great revision video
VFR into IMC absolutely is the Top killer in GA.
This was likely the problem the captain of Kobe Bryant’s helicopter found himself in.
Really good episode this time. I have been glider pilot for over ten years and gliding is the true flying - I can confirm that we had many professional pilots in the club and they all said the same. The way you describe this situation it very respectful to our hobby. Much appreciated!
Excellent, balanced and fair analysis.
Thank you!
Totally idiots-the gliders flyers.
@@MentourPilot Likewise in agreement on the analysis.
There's a quote from an episode of Mayday / Air Crash Investigation (I think it was a 747 that lost situational awareness and nearly ripped the plane apart recovering it), and one of the passengers said at the end of the episode, "They may have gotten us into that situation, but they got us out of it."
That's what margins are for. And although this was WAY TOO CLOSE for comfort... the student DID get his instructor down safe.
@@Dailymailnewz, You obviosly didnt listen to a word that Mentor pilot just said in closing did you?
@@MentourPilot It would be cool to hear your take on the 1977 los rodeos disaster.
I am both a glider pilot (though very un-current) and a "power" pilot based in New Zealand. I watch a lot of accident videos, both fatal and not, to learn what I can. This was by far and away the hardest to watch.
I won't comment too much as the incident is likely subject to investigation; however, I do have a few remarks that may be of interest to some.
My understanding (and I stand to be corrected) is that while the person in the front seat was in fact a "student", he was also a powered aircraft pilot so he perhaps had considerably more experience than other gliding students might. This probably had a significant contribution to the positive exchange of controls that you noted. (While I haven't flown a DG-1000 personally, I have flown rear cockpit in a number of types, and there is typically far better visibility from the front cockpit than the rear which may have also contributed to the instructors willingness to relinquish the controls.)
In terms of VFR minima in New Zealand, at their altitude, they were only required to be "clear of cloud" and "in sight of the ground". Even at higher altitudes, there is an exemption for gliders allowing them to operate within 500 ft of the cloud base.
There was some suggestion that the go-pro being dislodged was due to contact with terrain. The pilots and the gliding club have denied this. It's a little hard to tell, but it looks like the G-meter showed an 8G pull-out. Plenty enough to move a go-pro mount.
As you noted, they did go on to make a successful paddock landing (a common occurrence in gliding) and both pilots are (physically) unharmed. The glider was reported to have been fully inspected after the occurrence, and no damage was found.
I loved the discussion of margins versus errors. That's really the key to the whole thing that is often absent from the conversation. Also worth noting, once they were in the cloud, they also entered very strong sink suggesting that the can been blown onto the leeward side of the ridge - not somewhere you want to be in a glider even in clear skies.
I'm not going to defend OR vilify them. Ultimately, they are very, very, very lucky. I hope I never make the chain of mistakes required to put myself in that position, and I'm just glad they're okay. Also...way to stay calm!
Totally agree with not saying "that would never happen to me".
If you truly believe you can’t make mistakes, you’ve already made one..
There is a great utube channel called Balleka.... check it out. Fantastic footage by a great glider pilot who was a trained 747 transport pilot....
Sadly was as he killed himself in a gliding accident. If a pro aviator like him can kill himself then what chance do I have with my minimal experience 🤔 I have to ask myself. Don't think it can never happen to you.
It's easier to judge in hindsight than in the situation itself, Never risk what you aren't trained to handle.
Indeed. We can always armchair quarterback. But, when actually put into a situation, that's when we are all humbled.
He is literally training right there. If you can learn what you already trained, you won't get far.
I'm just surprised there is any form of plane without a artificial horizon out there.
@@5Andysalive Every aircraft is designed to do something different. This glider doesn't have an artificial horizon because nobody should use it for IFR, never. If you do that, it is ok, and you are using your aircraft appropriately.
Interesting. I was a student pilot in Florida in the mid 80's. One day I took off in the Cessna 172 for touch and go practice and before I knew it cloud had shrouded the airport, I recall being in a climb for what seemed an eternity (probably was more like seconds), I could not see a thing outside the cockpit. I recall focusing on the instruments, particularly my attitude, rate of climb and speed and headed for a break in the clouds and eventually landed, thankfully on the runway. I really thought my time was up, I was only 19 and it terrified me. I was never really the same after that, I no longer felt comfortable up in a plane by myself so never did get my a PPL. It was probably for the best, my poor sense of direction and lack of spatial awareness is legendary, but I still love everything aviation!
I'm terrible with step by step processes, I'm more abstract with my work. I'd make a terrible pilot but I enjoy the engineering and physics of it all.
Now that you mention it I have terrible sense
Direction myself. I do wanna get one of them powered paragliders though!
I flinched as soon as i saw the vario drop down below 6 o'clock when they were in cloud cover. During that kind of soaring, this is a clear indication that you drifted into the downwind side of the ridge where you will get caught in downdrafts. You can see their altitude melting away by the second. The fact that this happened in the clouds and at low elevation makes it all the more scarier.
As a gliderpilot (flying the DG-1000) I totally agree with you. A dangerous situation turned out into a happy end.
Well said, it can happen while driving on the roads. As 10 wheel truck driver in the past, carrying 60 thousand lbs of gavel, I had to plan ahead, always scanning the road, keeping my truck in the pocket.
I know you meant gravel but I like the idea of 60,000 lb of judgement; sounds like the start of a great action film
Reminds me of riding a motorcycle. Always assume the car you’re coming up on does not see you/or is actively trying to kill you lol. Leave some margins for that
Very true about margins. I’m a motorcycle rider, which some consider to be a lapse in judgement itself. A biker needs to avoid piling on more lapses and running out of road. I used to live not far from some beautiful winding canyon roads, and almost every weekend, some squid failed to make a curve. The worst aftermath I saw was some kid that leaned over the centerline into oncoming traffic. There were worse fatalities, but the rider ended up at the bottom of a cliff, so I can’t claim to have witnessed anything beyond S&R preparing to rappel.
I love how explain this in a way that people can learn from yet respectful to the people who were there.
Exactly. And it supports his point that this could happen to anybody; not respecting these guys makes it too easy to write them off as people who don’t know what they’re doing, ‘unlike me’.
Hi Petr
At around 15 minutes in, you mention the student pilot reaching for the speed brake to possibly slow the aircraft down. In a glider the speed brake [or more accurately, the spoiler] will do absolutely nothing to decrease speed. It induces sink [or reduction of altitude] and at a very rapid rate. A glider's speed is controlled entirely by elevator- nose up, slow down. "That would have gotten them into an even trickier situation" is an understatement. They would have been in the trees in seconds! Again, very informative post. Thanks again. Just an aside and not being picky, the verb for the noun condensation is condense, not condensate. Before RUclips, I pronounced pitot [peeto] tubes "pit ot". Glad to be corrected on that one!
Hairs in the ear are for sound! Crystals are for balance! The ear diagram is good but superfluous in this video
Captain Hindsight has always been one of the best teachers in aviation, but it must be addressed and delivered in a constructed manner. This video is a good example of how to properly leverage a pilot mistake and turn it into a valuable teaching moment for all. Pilot error (and how common is VFR into IMC, right?) should always be owned and addressed, but not with shame. The advent of compact, cheap and easy video equipment has provided the aviation world treasure troves of life saving lessons. It is imperative that we use it to it's absolute fullest extent so it is productive and valuable to everyone, even the poor guy who made the mistake to begin with. So I get a little irked when I see people making damning comments, it does no one any good, and as a result, may also be just more motivation for future mistakes to remain hidden rather than open for all to see and learn from.
Sooner or later, you HAVE to get out of class, away from the simulation on the PC or even the legit' simulator, and actually GO FLY THE DAMN PLANE if you're ever going to learn how to actually fly a damn plane...
Put into perspective, I've put probably a million miles under 2 wheels since I got my street-bike license at 15... That was 30 YEARS and A DOZEN COUNTRIES ago... I SUCKED at riding when I first put my leg over a saddle! EVERYBODY sucked at whatever they did IN THE BEGINNING... We only ever get to learn by making mistakes... figuring out where those mistakes come from, and rectifying the issues that caused them, whether it's a miscalculation, piss poor sensitivity to mechanical feedback, impatience with controls, or just a lapse in judgment... whatever... We get ourselves into trouble, get a little freaked out, HOPEFULLY avoid the outright accidents, and then analyze and adjust for the next "trial"...
While I do admit that there are just certain individuals who have no business with certain machines, it takes something particularly egregious to suggest someone actually will never have any business in said machine. This was a small miscalculation type of error... They happen. The hope (with experience) is that over time these kinds of errors get farther and fewer between as the pilot or machine-operator "gets seasoned"... ;o)
This is one of the best videos you have ever done. It even applies to areas outside of aviation.
Give yourself margins.
Thanks man.
The scariest thing to me is just how fast things went wrong.
Especially when flying a glider. It feels very smooth and serene - almost slow. But you are actually travelling very fast and the situation can change very quickly.
Well, they were going straight into the mountain. You can say that things were going wrong for a while with them not knowing ;)
I AM a pilot, and you would be utterly AMAZED at just how quickly things can go wrong! I've been there and done that, fortunately without EVER bending the airplane. There's usually never just one thing that brings an airplane down, it's nearly always a cascade of events that bring an aircraft down.
That's often the way it happens, your statement is so very true. Though sometimes the event drags out as system failures compound with complex decision making. I've seen that also. But a rapid gotcha, can be the worst.
@@raytrevor1 You've never been in a glider have you?
Even though both you and Blancoliro did a video on the same subject, I love hearing about it from both of you. In fact, you both have your own spin on things and hearing from several professionals on this is never a bad thing!
I agree. I am interested in the bravo 2 zero mission of the gulf war. several members of it have books out telling the story from thier point of view plus one that tries to debunk the story by someone no involved. having read all , I have a much clearer picture of what really happened. there are also books not about that story but in same time frame that describe things that add authenticity . so hearing a story from so many angles builds the big picture of what is the truth
Different takes, but they’re not in disagreement. I saw Juan’s breakdown first. Mentour’s explanation goes into more detail, but Juan gave me the gist. One thing he said that remained in my mind was that sometimes experienced pilots get complacent, and that can lead to an error in judgement. I’m not a pilot, but this statement has broader applications beyond aviation!
Whenever you hear in a cockpit: "where are we?" ... that's not good. AWESOME Mentor :-)
I've said it more than once :-(
_bzzt!_ "This is your captain speaking. Right now, if you look out your window, perhaps one of you can see where we are. Please tell a flight attendant so that the information can be relayed to the cockpit. Thank you for your time and attention."
Often when doing a C of A airtest usually in a twin after the single engine climb, the pilot has spent 5 mins watching the ASI to maintain exactly the single engine climb speed. I would be in the right hand seat with the clipboard & paperwork, I get passed the map & the pilot says ' your a glider pilot where are we '
On the positive side of things it seems to me that it is better to hear it than get first hand knowledge of it one way or another ........
I'm a glider pilot in training and my hands are all sweaty just watching this o.O
Amazing how fast you can get disoriented inside a cloud and just falling from the skies.
Just recently started following you, but I have really , REALLY enjoyed your take on all the situations you analyze! Keep it up. and a BIG THANK YOU!
Great analysis. Three things most impressed me in the video 1. It took about five seconds for them to fly from VFR into total IMC. It hit them like a bolt from heaven. 2. The student's voice indicated great stress but his right hand on the stick remained pretty light. At no point did he take a death grip on his controls. His left hand remained in a relaxed position on his thigh. He pulled that one two second high G turn but immediately backed off. 3. As you pointed out, the student did display some real aviator skill. He anticipated and called out a stall spin, quickly corrected, didn't hesitate to call out "I have control" and the instructor did not fight him on it.
Change your underwear scary for the crew, no one was hurt and I'll bet they learned a lesson or two that they will only want to repeat in a simulator.
I loved the comment on giving margins! Margins are more than just what's in an FAA book. If the flying is beyond your abilities - stay on the ground.
It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air - than in the air wishing you were on the ground.
I'm a glider pilot, and something we say at my club is: you can always take another tow, and there's always tomorrow"
I haven't met anyone with over 100 hours who hasn't done or at least come too close to this. It's always better to be down here wishing you were up there than to be up there wishing you could get down here.
I wasn't even in proper clouds (just more or less haze) and realized I was in a slow, turning descent about 400 ft above the Gulf of Mexico when I slammed those throttles and climbed the tin can out just at the stall margins (according to that awful and life-saving horn). I was too busy trying to navigate instead of aviate -- five frequencies, two VORs, no GPS or radar. All that slow flight & power-on stall training kept me here for my kids.
Thanks so much for all of these instructive videos. Keep that blue up & brown down.
15 years ago when i was living in Germany (Augsburg) i flew gliders every weekend. A fellow glider pilot lost his right leg after entering such clouds and smashing into a hillside.
Horrible
@@tkorte101 you mean the glider? Yes, ofc.
@@tkorte101 😐
@@70mavgr pretty sure he meant the leg...
@@HamBown ow :)
As a long time plane nerd, I’m finding your videos fascinating. Your level of detail that you discuss is perfect for my level of aircraft knowledge. It answers so many questions that I’ve had for so long. I really enjoyed the GPWS video. Watching the simulator footage was awesome, yet nerve wracking. This stuff is awesome. Looking forward to more!
For the non-pilots out there, flying into a cloud does to your situational awareness pretty much what loosing your headlights while driving on a moonless night would do to you.
If you can't slow down below 50 mph.
Having watched that video four or five times now I would say it's more like driving into a white out on a twisting mountain road - you just get odd glimpses of things which may, or may not, be the road. (Actually off-piste skiing in a white might be a better analogy - you know it is basically downhill but who put that tree there?)
Done that, no fun! It was on a big curve, I knew the road, and I was doing about 80 kph, when the lights went out. I worked the brakes very carefully and very gently worked the left hand side wheels back and forth between gravel verge, and the black top, for reference. I brought the car to a slow gentle stop, I was worried that if I tried to stop to quickly I might get disoriented. Later I couldn't make up by mind if I would have been better of just slaminging on the brakes, or not. With trees on one side, and a bank and a culvert coming up on the other, probably not.
Except in a car you only have 2 dimensions to worry about.
It's even more dangerous than driving example, you have extra dimension to deal with, the vertical.
It is the scariest soaring video I have ever seen.
By far
The student is single engine pilot, but he was learning to pilot gliders. They pulled 7G that day, and both know they were very very lucky!
God bless German engineering...
7G would be above the G limit of that aircraft assuming they had the 20m wingtips installed. I hope they went to the yard and had it properly inspected. Additionally doing that'd give the guys some time to grab a beer and talk about how they'll celebrate their 2nd birthday and make others aware of their mistake and how to avoid it.
@@timoadler6356 i believe that the video was mainly made available due to an insurance case concerning the over G of the glider. Luckily the manufacturer put in some margins, where the pilots didn't.
@@folkenvanvanel6611 That makes sense indeed. Luckily the DG1000 is a rather tough piece of art.
I think this is one of your best videos. I love your analysis and your fairness in judgement. Keep up the great work!
Great video! I'm a student glider pilot myself, and you are absolutely right. Even though they've got themselves into this situation, it's a miracle they got out of it.
I don't think you actually need an artificial horizon for IMC in a glider - our glider was IFR certified, and it only has a turn and slip indicator (similar to turn coordinator). It needs a special battery, and I'm the only one that bothers to connect it every time, so I'm the only one using the instrument, but it could come in handy in a situation like this...
And yes, knowledge is absolutely needed! I love meteorology, but every piece of information is very helpful especially in glider decision making.
Doing it with only a turn gyro is quite difficult, as your cross check on AS and altitude is providing much of attitude info, but from lagging instrumentation. Better to get one of the small standby electric AIs, but you need a lot of battery. And no fallback if AI failure happens.
Really nice to hear a pro commenting on this situation without judging! Thanks
The student got into trouble due to lack of experience, but most importantly he also got out of it and saved the situation without forgetting all his training.
Fun fact, while I was doing some glider training (ASK-21), years ago, the instructor had me fly below a typical summer cumulus (later becoming a CB). The updraft was so strong that in order to descend and not get in IMC, we had to almost reach Vne and pull the spoilers all the way out. We got to the base of the cloud and could start smelling the ozone as it was about to rain. We never got into the cloud, but that was really impressive. Gliders are truly efficient flyers!
in another lifetime i was at driggs, ID flying a high performance glider, and some weather moved in, I had to go to land to pee after a 2 hr flight, i looked above and saw mammatus clouds, i could not descend while pushing down the stick and exceeding max velocity, i had < 100 hrs in a glider, I thought what could I do, I pulled the spoilers and that worked thank god. never was trained to do so. ok one problem solved, then saw virga approaching the runway, shi*, i didn't know that meant downdraft, thankfully it passed the airport before I landed, a tow plane did a go around just previous to me landing because of wind shear, the socks were pointing opposite direction! i landed albeit a little hard b/c of the downdraft, i swear i flared out and still hit a little hard. everything good, much learned. i was shaking after I got out of the cockpit.
Neither seat cushion was found after the incident...
I nearly had to throw away my seat cushion just from watching the video!
Always follow your nose. / Gandalf
....and the video caused @Mentour Pilot's panties to hit dew point filling them with large volumes of moisture that didn't come from cumulonimbus clouds. 0:17
Great analysis! I am a glider pilot, and the worst mistake I made was while ridge flying. It was just a few seconds, and I got out of it, but I realized how little margin you have compared to other forms of glider flying. In thermal gliding you keep far away from terrain, but in ridge flying you are actually pretty close, or rather, terrain is pretty close to you. This takes some getting used to, and I had not fully appreciated just how little time you have to correct a mistake. It was only then that some accidents I had read or heard about started making more sense and that I understood that yes, it could happen to me too.
I like Mentour's calm and instructive take on this situation. It this absence of judgmentalism that makes this channel nice to watch.
Agreed, and that exemplifies the intentional exclusion of blame culture in aviation safety.
That’s what “Mentor” is all about. Wish I had him in my “white knuckles” days.
A masterclass from a frightening situation. Fantastic analysis, as always.
Very true words from you at the end! Not only for aviation! Thank you!
What I appreciate the most about this video is your respect for the pilots. The only people that really knew exactly what was happening here were the two people in the cockpit. What you do here is compliment their strong airmanship and constructively point out some suggestions that might reduce the chance of this happening to someone else. No more. You just suggest. This showcases your own professionalism as much as theirs.
Mentour: “Whenever you hear someone say ‘where are we’ in the cockpit, thats not good”
Audio of cockpit: “Shit!”
🤣🤣
But shit is good !! Special High Intensive Training !! :-(
Was waiting for him to say, "and that's not good either" lol
The biggest airliner that I've been in was an a340 and even in that, the moment we entered thick clouds the ride got bumpy. I cannot imagine how a featherlight glider with its huge flimsy wings would react in such a situation.
Huge respect to that crew and to you for doing such an analysis.
Excelent video Mentour. I do not know why you did not mention an important instrument that is located below in the left side of the panel: G Forces. (on other videos they said that they reach 4 positive G's). Also I've heard that the glider student is a pilot. I am your fan. As a rusty pilot, you make me be on touch with the aviation. Thanks for your honesty and knowledge.
The lesson on margins is a critical understanding in airmanship. This was well stated!
Great share Captain..nice advices..
My bf loves flying this type of aircraft when he's home in Italy and he do hang gliding as well..
Omg regarding the video you reacting its quite scary, they're in middle of clouds..glad they both landed safely..
Excellent video. Frightening to watch the onboard footage. Great analysis and superbly presented.
Well explained Petter! This can happen to ANYONE!
How are you 21 minutes early.
@@dogzrule1551 I’m from the future 😆
Patreon, right?
@@gabrielsimon7944 I work for Petter.
As always -you cross into the heart of the subject. Margins are always key to successful endeavors. Shoot for center mass, develop plans upon best and worst case scenarios, stay well within you and your equipments’ optimum operating parameters-not limitations. As a previous comment mentioned- you truly are the best of what an instructor should aspire to become.
Great analysis video, as indeed Mentour Pilot always produces. Years ago, I was doing my private pilot's licence on a restricted licence doing training circuits, and it was a mostly clear day, flying VFR. On the base leg I went through some small clouds for a very short time, but it must have seemed longer, and felt a little of this spacial disorientation people talk about. Fortunately for myself, I soon came out of it, but after landing the plane, I realised the seriousness of the situation. I get all sweaty just thinking about it these days....
Great video again, Petter! Love these instructional commentaries. Your aircrash report videos are also so interesting and filled with quality information. I appreciate what you doing!
Oh my, heart was in my mouth from when they entered the clouds. Just scary.
This is one of your best vieos! Your commenting on the incidents is remarkably good! Thank you very much for your videos!
18:14 As Mentour said bad things happen when both pilots fight for control and do opposite commands. There are few aerial accidents involving that.
My brother is a glider instructor, and he believes the instructor made a big mistake being too close to the clouds. After receiving his instructor certificate, his instructor told my brother, Don’t let your student Kill you! I believe the instructor in this case should have made an Exit Stage Right!
If you haven't made a mistake, you haven't made anything...
Correct
Unfortunately there are some situations where the mistake. Is your last mistake.
It only takes one mistake in the cockpit to end your life and many others. Ask the pilot of American Airlines 965. 13,000 hours and a premier pilot made one mistake in the FMC and boom, everyone but 4 dead.
@@ooo_Kim_Chi_ooo is that the one where neither the pilot nor copilot remember to turn off the speed brakes, if they had they would have had sufficient rate of climb to clear the top of the mountain?
@@jpe1 American Airlines 965, 20-Dec-1995 survivors: 4/155, 0/8, GTI (Get-There-Itis), loss of situational awareness, CFIT and yes that is the one where the speed brakes sealed their fate.
A Bell Jetranger took off from Biggin Hill on a cold, damp, December morning with 4 passengers on board. Their destination was a venue near the south coast, for a company, Christmas party. Within about 2 minutes after take off the pilot declared that the weather had closed in and was going to return to EGKB. They didn’t make it. The aircraft was flown into a forest covered hillside during a turn back to the airfield, and the 4 passengers and pilot were killed. As a police officer on duty on that morning I was one of the first few to arrive at the scene. It was horrific! I won’t describe what I saw, but I always remember thinking how quickly the weather caught them out. From having vision, to having no vision. Scary!
This will be a learning experience the trainee will never forget, hopefully it has taught him important lessons.
The key is to be lucky enough to survive making those mistakes for an opportunity to learn from them. Not everybody is...
Likely among them all, that the colour of adrenaline is brown :-o
I love Mentour Pilot! I plan to get my part 61 as soon as Covid-19 subsides and these fair video analysis are an inspiration to the type of pilot I hope to become.
I've had some scary situations in military aviation flying in mountains with questionable weather. As a crew we all had to agree to push a bad situation and even then decided to turn back. Thankfully in a helicopter you have far better options to hover taxi. Still I feel for both the pilot and instructor and thankful they made it out alive, hopefully they have both learned as should everyone how quickly a situation can turn bad. As an airman, you can see where they went wrong and what you would potentially do. But to be there and have to make the decisions in the cockpit and with the pressures they were under, many pilots would not have been quite so lucky. Great video breaking the very near miss down and hopefully a lesson learnt for all that watch it too.
Hi @MentourPilot,
thank you very much for pointing out that thinks like this can happen to everyone so that we all shall learn from this incident rather than mocking both pilots.
I appreciate this sort of voice of reason very much.
Ciao
Kudos to the student for having the confidence to take control from the instructor. Kudos to the instructor for creating an environment where the student is empowered and confident enough to do so.
That said, smells like normalization of deviance to me. They've gone against regulations flying through small amounts of cloud before, and gotten away with it. Done it enough to feel confident in the outcome, until one day....
When I was being instructed on how to fly on a ridge, the instructor made me put myself into situations that could be hazardous, although we were flying VRF it was easy to get pushed over the back of the ridge if you were not observing what was happening, you can be flying along the top of the ridge, then all of a sudden you hit tremendous sink, remedy, turn into wind away from the ridge. If I had been in this situation I would have turned 90 deg from the ridge, hopefully clear of cloud and more importantly away from the ridge. What I was surprised at was when they hit very strong sink they did not turn away but kept on the same heading. IMOP a recipe for a disaster. Just shows how much they had turned in cloud when the ridge appeared on their right hand side.
Your channel is very entertaining, but I kinda wish you had a podcast too. You're very knowledgeable and interesting so I think it would work well
If you are learning to fly gliders be sure to understand that the Airbrakes/Spoilers/Divebrakes are not actually airspeed controls they are descent mechanisms .
Sadly, my best friend got killed flying in IMC in the mountains in 1996. He was a well trained IFR pilot but got complacent I guess. Anyway, that even sometimes happens to airline pilots. Take the Cali incident with AA for instance. Thanks for the comments - universal wisdoms too often discarded; aviation is rarely forgiving of pilot error.
I am a glider pilot and that scared the hell outta me way before the incident. Inside a cloud without the right instruments and training your life expectancy is about 45 seconds. To watch this is like seeing a disaster approaching in slow motion and these guys doing nothing about it. You are watching them slowly painting themselves into a corner.
that's the first thing i noticed right away, too close to the clouds, i think turning around and getting the hec out of there would have been best.
Hot clip in the av community. What a wild ride. Lucky as hell, quite easily avoidable. Most pilots don't get the chance to learn from such a series of poor decisions. Props to the student for fighting his way out of that.
This is not the first time similar things have happened on that part of the New Zealand Kaimai range. Over 60 years ago, I was an instructor at the local club, flying in a basic two-seat Rhonlerche with a student in almost identical conditions. The student had control while my attention was diverted for less than a minute until I heard, "What do I do now?"
When I looked up, we were completely in cloud, with the ridge only a couple of wingspans away. Fortunately, the lift was gentle, and the air was perfectly smooth.
"I have control," I replied, holding the stick steady and waiting.
"You have control," the student replied without realizing the danger we were in.
A minute or so later, we popped out into clear air and went home.
A few years later, another glider pilot died on the same ridge when he became disorientated in cloud. In 1963, the Kaimai Range claimed 23 lives when a DC-3 entered the lee-wave downdraught in a storm while attempting an NDB approach to Tauranga Airport.
So, I have sympathy for the two pilots involved in the video, and it should be a lesson to all that they should always be aware that we were never intended to fly like birds, and must always keep a margin for error.
My instructor, Jan Driessen, would be freaking out if I had done that with him on board.
Spoilers aren't really speed breaks, they increase the rate of descent without increasing forward speed.
Right. Spoilers aren't "speed brakes". They are "lift killers". Speed is controlled by the pitch of the aircraft, not any of the other controls. (Generally speaking, and in level flight at least.) Too many pilots get in trouble thinking of the pitch control as "up and down" instead of "slow and fast".
In many gliders, especially those used in aerobatics, the speed brakes do actually limit the (max) speed as well. Pulling the speed brakes is part of the procedure to regain control and/or avoid overspeeding after for whatever reason having ended up in an undesireable aircraft attitude.
@@benhetland576 Just the same as unusual attitude recovery in a powered aircraft. "Adjust power, stop the turn, nail the altimeter." But that is why I said "level flight" in my comment. Sounds like we are in violent agreement! :-)
@@brucefowler8690 Violent Agreement! Ha, Ha, Ha. Very Good!
I saw this video a couple of days ago and thought, man, don't we all have some stories to tell about our own flying experiences! You did a great job in your analyzing and then explaining what happened and why.
The self imposed safety margin You're recommending is an excellent tip. It's an added slice on the swiss cheese model.
You know like, LSALT 1000ft AGL in planning - even that only gives you < 2 minutes under a lot of negative circumstances.
I appreciate the great analysis and recommendations. Especially about having margins.
I went to fly a 172 the other day and took a friend, but decided not to go after the run ups had the engine sputtering at 1400, and disappearing at 1700.
I called the CFI and he just reprimanded me, saying I’d cooked the engine, but the temps were ok. It was a combination of high air temp, low pressure and high density Alt. I calculated the density Alt at around 3000.
I could have probably continued the flight, but I didn’t feel comfortable and didn’t feel like I had those margins you mentioned. 👍
Fly again another day 👍
You really made the right decision. Though, leaning engine for high density altitude might have worked, I imagine you were over rich. But still correct decision.
Mentor: give yourself margins
74 Gear: if ya ain't clackin you're slackin
clackin yes. but if someone shouts at you terrain, pull up, you've gone too far (or close).
Lol except 74 Gear was joking and mentor wasn't lol
What a good video Petor, really enjoyed it. No one is perfect even though some people think they are.
Give yourself enough margin, not only when flying, even when riding a motor bike.
Some motorbike riders think their "fear stripes" (unused part of the tires, because of fear to lean into the curve) are "safety stripes", their margin, but they are not. If you have them because of fear, you cant use them, even when your life depends on it.
The saying goes something like "A superior pilot will use his superior judgement to avoid the situations in which he may be forced to use his superior skills." I think?
When I was an avid bicyclist, I was arriving at work at turned behind a Piper that was doing a run-up. The prop wash blew me over to where I had to flinch my shoulder to keep it off the tarmac. I agree - if you are afraid to use it you will never use it.
I have entered curves on my bike with some speed margin, slower than I reckoned I would have actually been able to do, due to nothing more than a cautious nature; and without fail, there turned out to be a vehicle coming in the opposite direction that I would very likely have clipped had I not have that margin. All I can say it's a very sobering experience, and one not everyone gets to learn from...
Did a little student gliding and was struck by how quickly things could change. We got told to come down and land because a squall line was coming in. Up there it looked a long way away and that we had plenty of time, by the time we were landing it was pretty much upon us. So much so I was still airborne ( inch or two) when the ground crew grabbed the glider, zero ground speed they probably thought I had landed. I was also stuck by the instructor's "oh that's a good one" and "no no no" was to clouds that were not that much different to fly under and get the updrafts. And definitely not allowed near even a wisp of a cloud, a little fluffy cloud could be hiding a big nasty one behind. Late seventies, back when a Blanik was considered the safest ever glider.
When the student becomes the master, that instructor was (IMO) panicking and the student took charge knowing from training and instincts what was needed. That bit was good.
APS - Pictures The "student" may be a qualified powered pilot.
@@gavinward5448 true, but I’m not sure of the direct relevance to what I said?
@@aps-pictures9335 (Lacking insight) - Probably intimating that the "Student" may have been competent in a different aspect of flight, rather than being a noob.. - No additional information to give. The other aspect which could be argued, is that the student may need some schooling on impulse control.
This is youtube, everyone is entitled to add their bit. Even if it appears to cr&p all over a "personal thesis", oops, dang... lol...
I spent a summer in Gothenburg and Styrsö in 1955 when I was eight years old. It was wonderful. We also went to Stockholm and Oslo.
Flying through clouds in a simulator with an artificial horizon is already scary enough, how can a plane not have one? :O
Aircraft that aren't certified for IMC, and are never intended for IMC, do not have them. Gliders are one example. They are fair-weather fliers only. *Some* gliders do have a gyro, but most don't.
@@gromm93 Basically yes. But actually in some European countries IMC for gliders (inside clouds) is allowed. However the glider must have the required instruments, the pilot must have a current instrument license, the airspace must have been reserved for the activity and some special rules of conduct apply.
As a glider pilot, I must say that was an excellent analysis. I would just add one further point, it's sometimes difficult for P2 (student) to question the apparent unconcern of P1. Easy to assume the more experienced pilot is happy with the situation. I've been there - with an instructor merrily giving a sightseeing commentary whilst not attending to our height and the distance back to the airfield.
PS This scared the s**t out of me. Glad it went viral, a few more people now know the joys (!), challenges, and great satisfaction of pure flying without all the distractions of a noisy engine.
I learned No3, luckily not in an accident, traveling by car, took my eyes off the road for a second, and I was just to close to the car in front to brake. Here the lucky part, the car in front was looking into his mirrors, saw me coming hot, and managed to get out of the way >.
The student pilot is the hero here. They made an abvious mistake by flying on the leeward side of the mountain with zero visibility while the beeper clearly sounded like they were dropping like a brick
Let the man who didn't royally screw up/behaved like an ass during their hour building cast the first stone. Truth be told the first time I saw this it really got me sweating, lucky they didn't tore a wing off on that high G turn.
Well said!
These gliders are the most beautiful craft, and they are wicked strong relative to what might be considered high load in other planes.
ikr? I wasn't mad, I was scared for 'em.
Depending on the type, the DG-1000 can handle up to 7G so they're probably fine in that regard
One thing what was not mentioned in the end of the video about take aways. I think it is related a bit to the margins what the Mentour Pilot said. It is what I was learned that you should always have a backup plan, or what so called escape plan from situation. That plan should be 100% sure working. In any situation where the pilot intentionaly pushing his limits. he should always have this escape route if things go wrong. I believe that every pilot through out his pilot career someway constantly pushing his own limits/experiencies. That is inevitable. Pilots are flying alone without instructor most of their time. Most experience gained without instructor survillance. Following this simple rule that you prepare for the worst and have an escape plan from the situation when you are pushing your limits may save your life. Happy landings, cheers.
It reminds me when a captain felt bad, going to Madeira airport and the co-pilot wasn't cerified to land there, they flew back to Lisboa. The best call.
@Peter Mortensen corrected, thanks! 👍
Very good video! I am a glider pilot too.
I would like to point out something. You say you are a commercial pilot, but you have no experience as a glider pilot.
I am sure you heard about the Gimli Glider. You should make a video about that.
A Boeing 767 ran out of fuel over Manitoba, Canada. The captain was able to handle the situation by flying and landing the airliner as if it was a glider. He only could do that because in his freetime he was a glider pilot.
So I think pilot training should include gliding, to handle situations when all engines flame out.
One of the few videos where I’m left more impressed by the student than the instructor!
Inadvertent IMC is a killer. I would encourage any PPL holder to get an IR for this very situation!
The problem is that's it is difficult if not impossible to install IFR instrumentation in gliders. Maybe an expensive backup electric AI, with a very large Li battery.
@@mrubin3770 Even the solid state gyroscope in your phone is miles better than anything inside your head. A couple of old Android phones in phone holders would be a good start.
@@MikkoRantalainen how about a floaty ball compass?
@@Skarry Compass cannot tell your flying attitude, only compass direction.
@@MikkoRantalainen thank you. I thought those floaty ball ones (like those eyeball balls that always look upward when you roll them) might always align with the horizon.
You sure make good videos, the pictures and grafts are really helpful in understanding aviation.
I really do feel the person at most "fault" here is the instructor. I was a gliding instructor for a few years and the thing that stands out most to me is that until I had watched the video a few times, I couldn't tell who was the pilot in command. I honestly thought it was a mutual flight between two lowish hour pilots. There are a number of places where the instructor should have stopped the student going any further, or just taken control and sorted the situation, but he didn't. I don't know much about the instructor training where this was taken, but my own was very heavy on spotting an evolving situation and stopping it before it went beyond anything I could handle. But, like Mentour said it's all about your margins. The biggest mistake here was not having a margin in the first place.
In the story from the instructor's point of view, he was concentrating on something else when the student was in control. A momentary lapse in judgement while the student made a bigger one.
As Mentour pointed out, *you too* will make one of these someday. Everyone does. We're all human here. But yes, that's where those margins come in.
Thanks for this Petter - I always learn a tonne from each of your videos!