Quickdraws - Wire Gate vs Solid, Long vs Short, Skinny vs Thick, Gate Flutter | Ep.4
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Detailed Class on Quickdraws. Learn how to Choose & Use Quickdraws for different styles of Climbing. When & why you want longer / extended quickdraws? And safety factors every Climber needs to know.
00:00 Intro
01:12 Can you use a Carabiner instead of a Quickdraw?
03:36 Rubber Keeper
05:42 Dogbones - Skinny vs Thick
06:32 Dogbones - Why do you need Long Quickdraws?
08:24 Dogbones - Proper way to Extend Quickdraws
11:11 Panic Quickdraw - Worth for short People?
13:02 Carabiners - Wire Gate vs Solid
14:01 Gate Flutter - Is it Dangerous?
15:59 Which Quickdraws are affected more by the Wind?
🧾 Choosing Quickdraws:
For light weight situations thin sling & smaller carabiners:
Mammut Sender Keylock 12cm or 17cm - bit.ly/3srZH3J
For hard Projecting for pulling / clipping comfort:
Mammut Workhorse Keylock 17cm - bit.ly/3iWIa0B
For most sport Climbing Routes having ~15 Quickdraws should be enough.
* Above links might be affiliate and give me small benefit.
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hardiseasy.com
Because that makes a big difference and allows me to do this project!
Deep Thanks!
Ben
❤ Special Thanks For Mammut for helping me to create this episode! 
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The advantage of a wire gate carabiner is not only when it comes to the weight and the gate fluttering. When you're climbing in dusty/sandy/muddy conditions then dirt may block the solid gate and prevent full closing which obviously increases the risk of unclipping or breaking the carabiner during a fall. Wire gate solves that problem as the hinge can not be so easily clogged and blocked by dirt. Another advantage is when doing winter climbing or dry-tooling. The water droplets can freeze in the solid gate hinge and also prevent full locking leading to the impact load reduction (open gate force) and the possibility of unclipping it during the fall. If you're not climbing in winter nor on more dusty/dirty routes, then this doesn't matter that much.
I prefer wire gates and I feel the rope is less slippery and easier to clip, because the contact point between the rope and the wire gate is flat when clipping. The bar gate has round contact, so the rope slides a little more easily.
I even prefer wire ones because they're much softer/easier to open them to put the rope
R.I.P. Tito Traversa, the most talented kid in Italy. Thank you for remember him
Terrifying tragedy. And it seems I have one more phobia now. Never even thounth that someone can assembly quickdraws this way. Going to check my new quickdraws before using them.
@@cyberfunk9494 Coincidentally I was telling someone the story of Tito's accident just last night. It was the mother of one of the other children in the group that had assembled the draws incorrectly. However that didn't stop 5 people from being charged with manslaughter including the owner of the gear store that sold the draws/components. I believe only one of the instructors was found guilty and received a 2 year prison sentence.
@@banalestorchid5814 Certainly, each instructor should control all the processes concerning safety. Especially when kids are involved. Some things that are obvious for adult people are not so clear for children.
@@cyberfunk9494 That's a fair point but is an instructor expected to be responsible for other people's equipment? I would imagine it would depend on the jurisdiction and what the role of the instructor is. Are they being paid or volunteering? Are they working as a "guide" or just assisting the parents? I have volunteered with school groups many times and the thought that I could face a manslaughter charge because someone else's equipment failed is terrifying.
I don't think it would be unreasonable for ANYONE (instructor or otherwise) to assume QDs are properly made. I have never heard of a similar thing happening in my 15 years of working in the climbing business.
Perhaps the court determined that the instructor knew the mother had "made" the QDs and he was at fault for not checking them given she was clearly not an experienced climber?
Apparently the person in the gear store that sold the QDs and the guy that owned the company that made the rubber pieces were also put on trial but acquitted. How does that make any sense? You sell climbing gear and someone get hurt and they come for you? That would be like getting in a car crash and blaming the dealership....
It makes no sense to me unless it's the lawyers trying to make as much money as possible. I suppose the more people that can be implicated the more work for them and the greater their fees.
@@banalestorchid5814 a court’s decisions will make a lot more sense if you had been in court to hear all of the evidence and legal argument(s).
This is why I use mixed draws- wire gate on the rope side and solid gate on the bolt side. Solid gate on bolt side avoids dangerous nose clipping and makes cleaning routes noticeably easier. Wire gate on rope side is cheaper, lighter, arguably safer, less prone to jamming. Also makes it really obvious which end goes where. Not a big difference at the end of the day, but only reason I can think of to put solid gates on the rope side is if you have trouble clipping (or unclipping) wire gates, which I haven't noticed myself.
Something to add, always make sure that you use the same carabiners to clip to the bolts and different ones you always use for the rope. If you have a carabiner that has knicks on it from falls on a bolt, and you accidentally use it on the rope side of the quickdraw, it can cause rope failure scarily fast - exposing the core in only a handful of falls.
That's the whole idea of using multiple quickdraws isn't it were 1 may get nicks & scratches due to natural wear & tear then the others will be there as backup in case of failure by the damaged carabiner I know it's a scary situation but these things really do give you the confidence you need to achieve your goals
@@martinthrone7012 You are missing my point.
Yes, having multiple quickdraws in case one fails can be helpful (though not in all situations, such as when a single failure will cause a ground fall).
What I'm talking about is when the bolt-side carabiner of a quickdraw gets knicks, scratches, and abrasions when them on bolts during sport climbing, especially when taking falls. This causes damage in the form of small micro edges and small points. Then, if you switch a carabiner with that kind of a damage to the rope side of a quickdraw, severe damage to the rope going through it can happen extremely quickly, possibly even on the first fall.
To be clear, always use a carabiner for the rope side of quickdraws that does not have damage from use on bolts or similar gear to best keep you safe and give you confidence in your gear during your climbing pursuits.
@@ryanv2913 NO I'm not missing your point at all you're not the only person who knows how to use quickdraws & how to look after & their maintenance & YES I'm well aware of the points you were making.......but in any case thanks for the info update 👍
@@martinthrone7012nah you still didn't understand what they were saying cause backup quickdraws don't save you from a rope failing
@@ryanv2913 Wouldn't that be completely mitigated by making sure you only use the bent gate carabiner on the rope side and the straight gate carabiner on the bolt side?
I'd much appreciate a video on clipping techniques (which are fastest, with the least pinching/failing probability? Is it just up to each individual, or are some more efficient, more versatile?). Your explanations are always so top notch ! Thanks for all this great content !
About the extension of quickdraws, there is another important thing that in particoular happened to me.
The problem of extending a quickdraw with another complete quickdraw (so without removing the spit carabiner) is that the carabiner where you put the rope in is in direct contact with a piece of metal. The stress between the two metals can create many little grooves on the rope carabiner, and these grooves can ruin the rope itself once you use these quickdraws not extended anymore. So remember, AVOID this kind of extension! In my case, a new rope was completely ruined in just few months. Once I changed the quickdraws, this problem has not happened anymore (using the same rope).
^ That
I'm not sure I understand, if you want to extend your QuickDraw, you still need to be aware of the rope side versus the bolt side and there would never be an issue
@@Grethko when you extend a quickdraw with another one in the wrong way, you put the spit carabiner "inside" the rope carabiner. In this way, the rope carabiner is directly in contact with the metal of the spit carabiner, and this ruins the rope carabiner itself. I'm not english, I cannot explain better than this ':D
Best wind gust simulation on RUclips yet ;)
I like thicker / wider dogbones more, because they tend to turn / twist less than their skinny counterparts. Nothing sucks less than barely getting the quickdraw in and then the carabiner turning away from you or wildly flailing around...
I like how you say “becorse” instead of “because”
I am amazed at how quickly you are putting out videos with such great content in this series ! Obviously something that was well planned and executed. Thank you for creating such a great resource !
What I learned from this video? Some good stuff about quickdraws and that you can use your drum to hold up your fan.
nice overview.
With the gate flutter, the other theory is that open carabiners have less load capacity and can actually bend during a fall when the gate is not fully closed. I remember having seen some examples in the books by German alpine safety guru Pit Schubert ("Sicherheit und Risiko in Fels und Eis" --> Safety and risk in rock and ice). On the other hand, when the fall creates forces exceeding 8kn in the quickdraw, you might have other problems to worry about :)
Im missing some basics.Like how to correctly clip the quickdraw and the rope. So the carabiner cant be opend by the bold or the rope (if its between the wall and carabiner) where bend carabiners are a tad bit more likely to open. Maybe the trick with the first quickdraw already clipped into your rope, because it safes you time and energy to clip onto the first bolt. (and till then you have nothing to take your fall, so its important to get that first bolt.) The direction you want to place the quickdraws based on your preffered style of clipping. How to get back your gear/quickdraws when you cant finish a climb or go down etc.
PS: I very much like your masterclasses and I have learned a lot of them!
I'm from the generation which saw nylon flat slings become common.Then we had discussions about which knot was best.A carabinier was...a carabinier.End of story...size,material,gate...is it a crab? Screwgates for main belays if you were really safety concious.
Life was much easier in those days.
Thank you very much for taking the time and making the effort involved in your classes.Very enjoyable,educational and entertaining.
Just wanted to say thank you! Just started learning lead as this series began and you've done wonders for my anxiety! I feel a lot more at ease with clear information ahead of time and your channel and methodology is just smooth as butter. *Chefs kiss* perfect content my dude!
There are of course also "alpine draws" or "trad draws" made using a sling with two carabiners. Floppy and harder to clip, but very easy to extend and extremely light.
Was actually hoping to hear more about these in this video. Seems like it would of been the right next thing to add to your friction test wall
He demonstrated this in the previous video about slings/lanyards/etc though it would have been a nice touch to reference in this one as well.
I carry some of all three lengths of quickdraws because it makes it easier to keep the rope running straight. It is also useful to keep the carabineer from being leveraged over a protrusion in the rock - just use a longer or shorter quickdraw.
I look forward to every new episode. Keep up the great work!
You’ve gotten a loyal subscriber and most likely a donator. You posed questions I wouldn’t know to ask, tested them and provided feedback. I can’t express how much I appreciate it when I am just beginning on this journey.
This is the best climbing channel on RUclips. Thank you
Just wanted to let you know how I appreciate your videos. They're usefull and well done in so many ways. But I also add that I appreciate your attention in using plain and slow English, so useful for non-native. Thank you so much!
I don’t know anything about climbing or anything but you are a very good teacher.
Great analysis! I really loved the zig zag rope with a carabiner vs quickdraw demonstration-- so clear
You should in the Part about friction also mention that friction not only appears over visible zif zag, also over the shape of the route.
Couple of days back I was belaying someone on an 35m sport route, which started straight, went into an sloper, over to an overhang and into another sloper. I had an really hard time explaining the climber that the worse catches than before came because of bad quickdraws placement / friction as the rope went in an S Shape on the mountain, just from another view point. (I barely felt anything when e fall, and kinda had to run into the rock myself, which leaded to laughs of others over my "super bad" belaying technic...
So many kinds of quickdraws. Nice to see such a detailed comparison.
Just found your channel. I am way past my climbing days yes I miss it. I have an engineering background and found this very interesting. I would have nightmares but I never fell. I never took those kinds of risks. Thanks keep up the work so people can climb safe.
Thank you so much for those master classes!
I can't even express how much I love your videos. Awesome and INFORMATIVE content like no else, and you're just so nice. I'm enthralled
Thank You! Cooking more of them already ;)
Always so stoked with each of your videos, can't wait for the next one :)
Next Wednesday 😉
Very impressive rate! And definitely hyped hahaha
Two safety point worth adding:
1)designate one side of the draws for pro(bolts) and the other for rope to prevent burrs damaging the rope.
2)the dangers of using rubbers on open slings: without you noticing they can inadvertently form a similar failure mode to clipping two pockets of a daisy chain except it’s the rubber that pops as apposed to the pocket stitching.
Great videos though!k x
This was mentioned clearly in the video
@@Grethko burrs or keepers on OPEN slings...?k x
Brilliant. Loving this series. Thanks for the great info.
Great effort! And a lot of valuable information. You might also mention that the wire gates don't freeze up or jam with sand. That prevents loading the gate open without you knowing. Thats why the "nose hooks" are still around as they will literally never jam on you and are a prefered choice for many alpine and sandstone trad climbers. :)
Great videos! I’m advising all my climbing friend to watch this! And every time there’s always something new to learn!!
Yep, I'm here just because of that: I'm a newbie and one of my experienced climbing mates explained to me some stuff about belaying, and told me to watch a video of this guy. I can easily recognize high quality content when I saw it, and now I'm watching all the videos of his channel.
This kind of information is super valuable. I know it cannot substitutes a real class, but it raises some awareness on important stuff, and that's great.
The ability this guy has in explaining these topics, with methodology and clearness, is just fantastic.
I always use long quickdraws, but this information about extending them might be very useful. Thanks)
Another amazing video of this series, thanks!!!!!
Thank you very much. Very informative. You are explaining very well.
ok so, was trying my first ever 6b and rope was felt hard, replaced some quickdraws as I learned in this video and it all became super smooth!
Had to come back and say thank you for the impressive info!!!!
Great! Good luck with your new projects ;)
Always so informative, thank you.
The wind test is the pinnacle, you got that like
Excellent work. You are a great content creator.
That friction demo was worth watching alone!
I love this video. I was always so curious what quick draws are for. I'm not a climber or anything, but I would love to start. Your videos are awesome. Can't wait to start the next one.
Thanks for that! I have new batch of videos in the making :D hope you tried climbing already?!
Well done. I enjoyed another vid from you.
Great video! Really liked the rope drag demo showing short slings vs longer ones. I've lived that nightmare in my early years. Nothing like pulling to clip, getting nothing but tension, and screaming SLACK while the belayer is none the wiser because the message isn't getting through the rope (backcountry trad multipitch with wind -- audibles were tough). I just had myself to blame for not using longer runners on the pro.
Nice video ! Thank you for all those information. May I add 2 more infos on it:
- Outside rubber on the bottom carabiner also prevent slings friction on the rock, when quickdraws may swing with the rope (winds, etc.) and rub themself on the rock - and after a long period, you can damage the sling without really seeing it, that's why they always have full rubber slings in indoor climbing rooms.
- having different size of quickdraws may be useful, sometimes bolts are not really in an optimal position, and the bottom carabiner may be on a little edge/cliff, which is not good in case of falling, you can break the carabiner. Having a longer quickdraw will prevent this kind of problem.
Again super nice and helpful video!
Just Impressive. Thanks for your effort
Onsighting I much prefer a midlength and heftier dogbone to extend my reach on finicky clipping stances (the heft will provide a little more support when tipped out getting a bolt) and reduce drag I am unable to factor in from the ground.
As well, mixed draws, solid gates to not get caught on bolts and wire gates to reduce force needed to clip in a rope.
I've had issues in the with the "key lock feature" on wire gate carabiners. It typically makes the tip of the carabiner bigger and on some old bolts I couldn't fit these.
CAMP Dyon wire-gate carabiners fix both this and the hooking issue. But they're rather pricey.
Hey man, Love your vids, very clear and deep in knowledge and practice. On this subject I would love to see one vid explaining the better ways to clip quickdraws as there are plenty, and just as the knots, nobody seems to have the same, fast and safe methods.
Thanks, Have your wishes in my todo list ;)
I Will add a small section on carabiner door direction for both on the carabiner. Good content
These are such great videos!
Ich hätte nichts falsch gemacht, weil ich die richtigen Regeln gelernt habe. Aber du stellst die Fragen, warum man nicht einfach ... macht. Danke! Sehr aufschlussreich und unterhaltsam! 😂
Great video, many thanks!
Good info, thanks for your sharing. Good good
Really interesting! Keep doing such videos
Excelente! Muchas gracias por tus videos, saludos desde argentina
Love the effort!
hi there my friend.thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.been climbing all my life.too busy for rock climbing at the moment,as rigging 5capacity big tops for music festivals,and am also trained tree surgeon/arborist.you've a very practical and logical way of explaining things,and you've covered most of the questions I would pondeer.it's better to plan methodically,and having a route planner and the correct equipment.otherwise,we are gambling with our lives,and I've these youngsters in their thirties,so I'll not let them down.look forward to mlre.an ceid mille failte
a hundred thousand blessings be upon to and yours.stay lucky.respect.maddogdom.West cork.republic of Ireland
great series, indeed. Waiting for the next video!
Thanks for supporting! Next video on Wednesday ;)
This is awesome !!!!
Great video btw!!
Dude, greate video :) so far i aggree with all you said
Great job 🤙🏻thank you Sir
Good video, covers most of the questions. Some nerdy questions, not covered:
1.) What would be the preferred direction to clip in the carabiner if the bolts are asymmetric like in the video? You always clipped from the top, I always clip the other way round, so the closed side (opposite to the lock) of the carabiner lays at the rock side. Heard that's less likely to open if the carabiner moves when progressing with climber further above.
2.) Another difference in thick and thin slings is their twisting behavior. A thick sling, especially the short ones, does not twist, which tends to move the carabiner at the bolt out of place more easily. A thin sling allows twisting, so carabiners more easily move in better positions by themselves.
P.S.: I usually carry short quickdraws with medium thick slings and some long quickdraws with thin slings. Works best for me, but I think much of that is personal preference only.
Un video genial, gracias por la información.
Instead of the long steady one, I like the clipstick 👍
Thanks for your sharing
great job dude
Great job !
Exelente vídeo 🙌🏻
Great info!
Gracias por tus vídeos, son fantásticos y además me sirven para engrasar mi olvidado inglés.
Tengo una duda, que seguramente me aclararás, y te agradezco de antemano. Normalmente leí hace tiempo en manuales que la forma correcta de chapar es de la chapa al tornillo o tuerca, y no al revés como veo en el vídeo; de esa manera es menos probable que se escape de la chapa, como bien demuestras con la panic.
Gracias otra vez por tu gran labor
I love Mammut products!
Me too, quality stuff & company with great values.
Another important thing about extending the quickdraw with carabiner to carabiner connection is that you wear down the carabiner you usually put the rope in. Metal to metal. It can create sharp edges and if you fall from a high place where the rope slides over that sharp edge quickly it can cut the rope or at least very likely damage the rope a lot.
Keep your rope end carabiners clean :D
#metalonmetalismetal 🤘
Keeping your carabiners in tip top condition is 1 of the most basic fundamentals of climbing especially when you take into consideration that they're considered PPE (personal protective equipment) they're very literally capable of saving your life
Very useful, thx!
I like your Videos very much. Greetings from Bielefeld
Learning so much from your videos... I'd love a good overview of the different clipping techniques and the pro's and con's of the different techniques.
Thanks, and yes it's on my todo list ;)
@@HardIsEasy Awesome! I've been looking at several videos to get a clear overview of the different techniques and which are the best/easiest/safest. But it can get a bit confusing? Sometimes it's also hard to see what people are doing exactly because it's filmed far away or the movement is quite fast. I love your clear explainations and this topic could really benefit from it.
"If your a smart ass" Lol, I like this dude.
I like to use solid gate on the bolt end and wire on the rope end. Basically i use solid gates for clipping hard goods (bolts, wire nuts) and wire gates on soft goods so no chance of burrs on a biner that will have a rope run through it.
Thank you for this video :-)
Great video. Any advice or insight on the Kong Frog quickdraw?
Benai, amazing dalykai!!!!
taip ir toliau tęsk...
Dėkui! ;)
It might be noted, in earlier times the manufacture date was not printed on the label of slings, ropes or harness. Whenever you still have equipment without a manufacture date written on the label, then it is definitely the time to retire such material.
Good efforts
Clicking like for the efforts
Awesome series man, love your channel.
Hey... really nice stuff :)
Just one necessary topic you should have explained in more detail in this vid is the mounting direction of quickdraws. Always check in which direction the rope is going further before clipping the quickdraw in to avoid unclipping. The opening of the carabiner has to face the wall, so that the rope can't unclip when falling!
Otherwise well made and thought through videos... still learning something while watching your stuff :)
PS: Another reason for using quickdraws instead of carabiners (and using the same side of the quickdraws for the bolts all the time) is, that the bolts sometimes damage the carabiners. Then the carabiners get rough edges inside, which can damage the rope.
Yea, I'll make separate episode about clipping, thanks ;)
Great Demo Studio, nice Funk Chay
Mammut just had offer of the week. I just bought 15 cm, slim, the lightest they produce . I hope they will be fine, I am complite beginner and just saw this video...
thanks
17:00 totaly convinced me fore the like ;D
Why not use Screw-lock carabiners for anchor points? Usually they dont change out anchor point carabiners that often right? (more specifically for indoors or some outdoor setups?)
Thanks for the very detailed description. Is it okay to grab a quickdraw to assist climbing in difficult sections?
"click the like for my effort" convinced me immediately
Congrats MASTER!!!!!!! Very interesting!!!!!!!!!!
CHAPEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best Wishes.
Thx
To get the gat flutter the carabiner has to hit the rock in a 90 degree angle and the happens jusat on rings or slings, not on the most comon bolts. Another things is, to fix the upper carabiners has also some benefits. It prevents from rotating the carabiner as well and prevents crossloads. I´m not sure what is better at the end of the day.
what about slings extended carabiners? suggestions about the materials of the slings?
Can I use bent gate carabiners on the bolt, as long as it is not on the fixed side of the sling? Is it true that because of the bent gate it would be easier for the carabiner to un clip de bolt?
Thanks!
Thanks Matyáš!