Why the world is obsessed with Israel and Palestine
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
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I want to say the First World War is probably slightly ahead of the Second World War in terms of what defines the modern world, but not by much.
Israel should stop stealing land!
how come no one weep about the plight of the Uyghurs in China?
I think you should have made clear that not all Christian denominations support Zionism, many catholic and orthodox priests have expressed more Neutral Views, with the Pope asking people to pray for citizens on both sides.
8:50 I hate that you brought anti semitism as a theme, because it is one that i think tends to be way over inflated and lurks in niche groups, i can garuntee you most ppl dont think of 4 chan memes when they think of palestine or israel. I would argue also that left wing anti semitism is more fringe (non existant even)
"The reason people care so much about the Israel-Palestine conflict [...] is because to much of the world, this conflict has come to be understood primarily as a sort of metaphor for what people perceive to be the fundamental themes of power that define our contemporary world." This is the single most intelligent statement I heard about this entire whole of dipshit. It should be pinned on as a disclaimer before and after every news show on this world.
Insanely potent
Themes of power? lol. Only the west and other major powers see this as such! Most of the world only care so much about this as a retaliatory and reactionary response to the west's hypocrisy... When 4000+ Palestinians dies, or when a Million (with an M) Iraqi civilians died, where was the west's "Do you condemn America" or "I support the right of the Iraqi people's right to defend themselves against American terror?", where?
When 4000+ Palestinians died in operation Protective Edge, the west was silent. But when 1500 European Jews die, it suddenly gets headlines and is dubbed as the worst tragedy of the year? And the absolute gall of those people to say they believe in the equality of human life? Apparently 1500 is now a greater number than 4000...
This is not about power or who has it, because for most of modern history, the west undeniably had the greatest say in this as they held most of the power.
No, this is about Western Hypocrisy and how the oppressed reacts to it. If western media didn't make the current terrorist attacks on Israel such a big deal like how they ignored the hundreds of deaths and indiscriminate bombings of other oppressed groups, then most of the comments and reactionaries wouldn't care either. They'd just accept this as the West's systemic cruelty just like any other nation or group would when given absolute and irrefutable power, but the problem of most people, is that the west simply had to pretend to be on the moral high ground too, you want to have your care and eat it too, that's when most of the world angrily reacted. Except for the very genuine few who truly cared for human life and are also the ones shouting for ceasefire in this whole ordeal, you wouldn't have gotten such a visceral response from other nations if the west actually did treat human life equally as they said they would.
To frame this as a conflict centered around power is to frame this from a western hegemonic perspective. The absolute arrogance of you people to see it as such baffles me.
Flip side is why don't people care about other things, eg; Tigray, or Kashmir, DRC or the Tamils, my guess being having political tribes predictably orienting to particular events, (especially this one with relatively few resources at stake) benefits the status quo.
I mean, I wouldn’t go that far, I already knew this before I watched the video, this conflict is a microcosm for how people view the world, its not that crazy
@@nerdwisdomyo9563but almost no one ever acknowledges that it is a political rorschach test and that answering a few simple questions about politics will almost certainly predict what their opinions of the I/P conflict are.
I've noticed that a lot of people in India are very pro-Israel, which seems heavily tied to negative views of Muslims in India and the Pakistan conflict.
India was colonised and oppressed by Muslims for centuries. So it makes sense that they would be sympathetic towards other victims of Islamic colonialism, such as any non-Muslim in the Levant.
Israel and India share a similar history. Both were British territories that were partitioned just a year apart from each other. And for both, the other side of the partition was a Muslim state/territory that they immediately went to war with, and still have a conflict with.
The Muslim’s of Western and central Asia, like the Christians of Western and Central Europe, had their own colonial empires. People’s who’s cultures suffered under Islamic extremism are bound to continue fighting Islamic extremism, whether it be ISIS or Hamas.
My personal view is pro Israeli due to historical Palestinian stubbornness in always opposing the mere existence of Israel.
@@thebristolbruiserThe Muslim ''colonizers'' of India were Indians themselves.
As my dad said, when you see a couple fighting in IKEA a lot of the fight is not about the thing they are buying in IKEA . It is about the deeper problems in their relationships.
Who fights at IKEA? It’s where my wife and I go to stop each other from fighting bc it’s so fun! And those meatballs, mmm
@@jt3013 Home Depot though
Absolutely, this is an ancient conflict that began basically at the birth of Islam itself.
this hits deep
Flag manufacturers after every new major world tragedy: **stonks 📈↗📈**
Forget the military industrial complex, let's talk about the flag industrial complex
The tough thing is predicting when demand will drop off and tapering down production in advance. Ukraine flags were everywhere then interest quickly dropped off a cliff. Flag manufacturers probably got stuck with pallets of unsold stock.
I came across an Instagram post recently where someone proclaimed that the Palestinians were the most forgotten people on earth. And I I couldn't really believe what I was reading because no other conflict gets as nearly as much international attention as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict does. I mean, no one cares about Armenia or Azerbaijan, no one cares about the Sudan civil war or the Myanmar civil war. No to minimize the violence, but...come on now. This is the definition of a conflict where the world is watching and there aren't many of those unless a great power is involved (i.e. like the United States or Russia)
i think sometimes people forget that palestinians are people too but in the west especially post-9/11 we tend to see them as an evil ‘other’ in society. from my experience growing up as a Jew in America, we learned a lot about israel, but barely anything about palestinians other than that they are antisemitic, which doesn’t humanize them or share their side of the story at all. the amount of palestinian support we’re seeing now is unprecedented so i think that is finally changing. people used to understand there was a movement but now people are finally understanding there are people there.
It's because the west considered itself as beacons of human rights. They criticise other countries for the human right atrocities but they always forget that their closest ally is an Apartheid that is committing an ethnic cleansing . So Palestinians are really forgotten when the USA starts to talk about how Russia or china are bad and evil.
@@amalgamatedgioconda266 I don't think anyone "forgets" the Palestinians are people or the Israelis are people. Every war is fought between people with their own desires and lives.
Many Americans were on both the Israeli and the Palestinian side in 1948 since this conflict could be said to have started. The difference right now, the reason why you think everything is different, is because you're an adult participating in this now.
It's really annoying to me when you act like things have changed in ways they haven't really. *_Get perspective._*
Doesn't matter. Fact is that despite Arabs being so vocal about their most frustrating topic, the west is still in complete support of the 80 year old genocide and suffering of Palestinians, with protests being shut down and what not to cover up for Israel's crimes, for it is a western creation after all. zero accountability for war crimes for the west and its allies
Whatever one thinks about the conflict, it is the height of arrogance and absurdity to declare the plight of the Palestinians a “forgotten” cause. Students are not shutting down Harvard over the plight of the Rohingya.
As an Israeli viewer who supports civilians on both sides and has Palestinian friends who are also suffering, I really admire how your video is neutral, not overly emotional, but also isn't just both-sideism.
JJ always leans right but he very clearly tries to stay balanced. He's one of the few conservative online commentators who aren't just blow hards looking for clicks.
neutrality is honestly incredibly stupid and naive and shows a completely lack of historical understanding of the region.
@@ananthram909*black and white thinking
If you care about your Palestinian friends, then please take action somehow to stop the genocide that is taking place right now
because of the relatively short history of this conflict, its split into two parts shortly after the establishment of israel and before it around the end of the time period when the ottomoans controlled the land of palestine, and the second part is conflicts caused because of the occupation "long" after the establishment of israel, while people still may debate about the establishment of israel, the empathy generally goes to present day situations among civillians such as limited mobility, or kidnapped family members and victims of terror attacks or raids on villages.@@ananthram909
You have hit a very important point here - that people outside the conflict use it as a metaphor for bigger ideas. And that's what's so frustrating. Because no one mourns a metaphor. When you are a metaphor, you cease to be people. And i am so tired of that. I am busy mourning and treating the trauma i got now while also trying to be safe, and all i hear is people with no knowledge of anything loudly arguing over me. I just want to scream at them to get a fucking hobby and let us grieve.
Yup all those dying on the daily in gaza aren't just names theyre PEOPLE
All of this bro
Exactly why the Muslim states have abandoned the Palestinian people - because they are metaphors for a greater war and have been pawns is some kind of global powerplay. It truly is a scar on humanity that this would has been allowed to fester for so long without offering or proposing any kind of compromise for both sides.
cry me ariver.... people projecting thier moral on this comnlict sint bad
im sorry but as someone whos views on this conflict are incredibly ideologically steeped, people absolutely do mourn metaphors. more so at least then they mourn things they have no ideological standings on. the only issue is that many will only mourn those on the side they support, it is hard to mourn israelis when you think of what their people have done, and vice versa for right wingers.
This is exactly what I’ve been thinking, so I’m glad you put it into words. I remember in middle school I read a book about child soldiers and the absolute insanity of the conflicts in Africa. Guess what? Not a single person on this side of the earth gave a shit. Yet these same people get so mad when I decide I don’t want to make this Palestine - Israel conflict my whole personality.. to me it’s just 1 out of a hundred different wars happening, so why focus on just that?
It's because of overexposure. We're seeing gore, violence and bloodshed against our will, and nothing makes us more emotionally charged and ready to take action than seeing dead people on social media, in the form of gruesome images.
Right. Something something about Africa…
Good Christ. So you do take sides.
Difference is the support from western governments for this genocide
i'd argue it's the support of western country to defend the only democracy in the middle east@@MisFellatio
@@casualBob7agreed
Yet very little cared about the 600,000 dead in Ethiopia during the Tigray war
Or rwanda until AFTER it was over.
Can't use it to pretend you're morally superior to others and circle jerk with your peers so people don't care.
Ayo 90 Days, big fan of your recent video essay.
Because they don't have useful resources or there is no ideological debate that can be formed from the war that resonates with Western countries.
Yeah or the current ethnic cleansing happening in Azerbaijan to its Armenian population
Just want to point out, Israel Flags aren't new in Northern Ireland, and equally common are Palestinian Flags. The line almost perfectly aligns with people's opinions on Irish or British identity. Ireland is overwhelmingly pro-Palestine, and so nationalists in the North also share this feeling. It's been pointed out that the Israeli approach to internment of Palestinian prisoners is hugely influenced by the British government's approach to Irish Republicans historically, therefore Palestinians are seen as dealing with the same kind of struggle.
because israel is doing plantation 🤷🏻♂️
Yes its seen in anti-colonialist lens, strage it was not mentioned.
All this things are so one-sided. Meanwhile neither Arabs neither Israeli Jews don't care about Irish or British identity and have to attempts to wave Irish or British flags and singing God save the King or Up the ra.
@@abcddef2112 He did mention Anti-colonialism at 7:22 …
He just didn’t specify it’s relation to Ireland/Northern Ireland
Ireland doesn’t recognize the existence of a Palestinian state tho
I graduated from UCLA in 2020. What I found very confusing is that the #1 issue in the student government at UCLA (USAC) was the Israel-Palestine conflict. There have always been protests (even more so now) on campus for both sides. Debates on who gets elected to USAC hinge on where people stand on this issue. It makes almost no sense to me considering UCLA is a university of 30,000 students, most of which have absolutely 0 connection to the conflict. During my time at the school, the leading "political party" on campus, Bruins United, had a lot of overlap with the Jewish society, Hillel. Bruins United got a lot of support from Greek Life and subsequently easily won most elections. While I understand that many Jewish students have direct connection to the conflict, I still believe that making this conflict the core issue among student politics detracts from real issues on campus. The point of student government is to meet the needs of the students, not make political statements on world events.
You didn’t graduate from UCLA in 2020.
Goddamn man. You people will believe anything.
I noticed this as well at university (in Pretoria, South Africa, 2007-2010). Student politics ought to be about delivering services to students, administering student accommodation, etc., but instead what tends to happen is that "real" political organizations use the student body and especially Political Science students as a recruiting ground and testbed for future members of their own organizations. As a result, student political activity is mostly a waste of everyone's time, but undergraduate students are too high on their own relatively newfound adulthood to realize just how profoundly stupid they and their opinions are, and so the cycle continues.
@@wolfieinu I don't think you did notice this in Pretoria.
@@bocephusbirchcull4044 I noticed that student political organizations are mostly useless at meeting the needs of students even when that is their stated purpose. Were you not able to understand that
They make it look like a sports match with cheering for either side
I have friends who are definitely swayed by the aesthetics of the conflict, that it's "colonialism" vs "indigenous" and "western" vs "eastern". One of them doesn't seem to even know that Palestinians are Arab.
Well, there are people who claim that "Palestinians are Canaanites".
Speaking a dialect of Arabic makes you Arab… so, by extension, me, a Canadian, speaking Chinese makes Chinese
@@berzang5838 If you're a native Chinese speaker then I think that would be fair enough.
Nobody cares about aesthetics. You just say nonsense to distract from Israel’s war crimes which the US funds.
I would say pro-Israel Christianity is more of a Protestant thing. Catholicism and Orthodoxy have been mildly hostile to Israel as they have significant numbers of ancestral Arab (and Palestinian) devotees, and more traditionalist aligned branches of Protestantism like Anglicanism/Episcopalianism and Lutheranism tend to be far more lukewarm to Israel.
You say that but a cardinal of the Catholic Church has offered himself in exchange for the Israeli hostages so. It’s not as easy as saying Catholicism is ‘mildly hostile’. Also the pope has called for both sides to stop the fighting and the Holy See recognizes both Israel and Palestinian as countries.
well that depends when and where. Israel fought side by side with Lebanease catholics and orthodox during the first lebanon war (which was also the lebanon civil war). there are still thousands of Lebanease christians who fled to israel when it pulled out of Lebanon.
@@cooperbailes6574 The Vatican didn't recognise Israel formally until 1994 - even Spain recognised Israel in 1986, after Franco's death, who thought Israel was part of the Judeo-Bolshevik-Freemason conspiracy and gad close ties to Arab states. In 1943 the Apostolic Delegate to Washington DC wrote to FDR trying to prevent the creation of a Jewish state. Pius XII wrote several encyclicals criticising Zionism and spreading anti-Zionist messages to various Catholic media in the 40s. Repeatedly in the years leading up to Israel's establishment the Vatican stated that a Jewish state was an anathema to it. In 1949 he appointed a Patriarch of Jerusalem who moved all religious houses and institutions out of West Jerusalem and Israeli control. Since 1967 the Vatican has repeatedly criticised and refuses to recognise Israel claims to Jerusalem, to the point that Cardinal John O'Conor refused to meet the Israeli president in 1987, and indeed have pushed for the internationalisation of Jerusalem and the holy sites there repeatedly . Much of the attempted plans for reconciliation under the 1993 agreement were put on ice by the 2000 Second Intifada. Throughout this time they have criticised Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. All of this adds up to 'mildly hostile' in my book.
As a Protestant that’s very accurate.
Especially Oriental Orthodox rites as a lot of them are from the Middle East Region which tends to have a pretty negative view of Israel
Yep, Evangelist pro-Israel are a weird paradox. “Normal” Christians (orthodox and Catholic) have no particolar sympathy for Jews. Keep in mind that while Islam “incorporates” Christianity (Jesus, Mary etc.) Judaism rejects Christianity completely labeling it as “idolatry”.
I remember back when the conflict ignited in Gaza my dad was asking me about it, like why they were fighting and the general history of the conflict, and I was able to give him good answers to all that, but then he asked why so many people here in America care so much about it and I couldn’t really give him a good answer. It really made me realize that yeah, it is kind of weird that this conflict is so influential across the world. I had taken it for granted that the Israel-Palestine conflict was such a divisive geopolitical issue around the globe without putting much thought as to why.
Same with my grandmother. She just kinda hates both governments now and skips those sections of the news after I explained it to her.
It’s literally one Sided War, Israël has been humiliating Palestine and conquering their lands and killing their civilians and making Palestine a Israël country their own country and Palestines are helpless and trying to defend their homeland for over 70 years and now when they are trying to defend themselves and attack Israël because of what they did, The Media had THE AUDACITY to call them terrorists
This conflict could lead to WWIII...
@@MuffinEnjoyer i mean, alot of conflicts right now are "close" to WW3, but I dont think political leaders are that stupid.
@@garlicxiyou have a lot of faith in politicians then
The reason Israel/Palestine has a disproportionate level of interest compared to other conflicts is because of the disproportionate media coverage. Could you really say that the amount of interest in this conflict goes above and beyond the amount of media coverage compared to somewhere like Yemen? It doesn't make sense to say that this gets more attention because of things like anti-Americanism or anti-imperialism when that's a theme of a huge amount of wars.
the disproportionate media coverage is a result of a high level of interest, not a cause. people are interested, media talks about it.
If there was only some connection between concentration of media and Israel...I guess we'll never nose why.
Well, the demands calls for the supply.
@@bjarkifreyrbjarnason9419 Induced demand is a thing though.
@@Civil_Ian
Induced demand is real but I believe in this case JJ is right.
We're seeing an intense passion from both sides that not even the Russo-Ukraine War was able to generate even though it has gotten more coverage than Gaza.
As an Israeli I want to thank you for a very interesting perspective on the conflict without trying to justify or belittle any of the points. Praying for peace in our region and in the whole world . Humanity has much better things to do than spreading and inciting hate.
One day you will no longer be an Israeli, you will be a human. Just like in America, the whites and the blacks will no longer be white or black. They will also be human. Sadly the stains on judaism will remain long after Israel is gone and Jews everywhere will be remembered for their bloodthirsty behavior and unstoppable brutality in the Middle East, just like many are. Maybe Islam will too, but per capita the killing capacity of the Zionists and their state which is supported and cheered for by communities around the world wholeheartedly will be taught in lessons just like the Holocaust is, and how something like the Holocaust can be used to kill invade and destroy anyone based on a historical event.
Ameen
you can't have peace when your country is based of aparthied and discrimination
there won't be peace until your government treats Palestinians like humans
God bless israel 🇮🇱
I really respect how you detached yourself and presented a calm presentation about such an explosive subject. The journalism we want.
Fun fact
There are not a single fascist regime that could last more than 100 years.
I dont think the Zionist regime will be different
And he doesnt sound pretentious like other people making videos about the matter. Although, that doesnt seem his usual tone.
And he doesnt sound pretentious like other people making videos about the matter. Although, that doesnt seem his usual tone.
Every big youtube channel that wants to avoid demonetization does the exact same thing
Ehh, I disagree. He talked about people calling Israel an apartheid state in the same exact skeptical, incredulous tone that he said people call Arabs undeveloped and stupid. The journalism we want isn't to treat both of those equally, it's to do your damn research.
I am incredibly baffled how this conflict can emotionally drive millions of people from all over the world into intense internet fights and heated arguments as if their lives depended on this, in such a way that no other conflict does. I don't remember so many enraged people and so many arguments for Artsakh or for Tigray.
It does make sense, considering the land of Israel is so important to many religions and cultures.
The entire country is essentially one big heritage site.
I think if social media had been around during the Holocaust or other such atrocities it would have similar online engagement.
Likewise why are people so outraged at the idea of Israel stealing land in 1948? Most of the people commenting are themselves living on stolen land. Anyone in the US or Canada fits that description. I don’t see them giving up their homes for Native Americans to come back to.
Here in the US, the media coverage is controlled by corporate interests, so unless something catches a CEOs eye, you won't hear about. Also, I'd say more than half of the coverage is light on facts, not necessarily lying, but giving the public less than what they'd need to come to a reasonable hypothesis.
It used to not be as bad. I believe it was changed during the Reagan or Clinton administration that freed up the news to become infotainment.
What doesn't make sense to me is why the world didnt care as much in 2014 when Israel invaded Gaza, after hamas kidnapped 3 teenagers. Social media was prominent then too
Allow me to add something ... People of this era are more autonomous,aware and educated than all of human history ... the core of their frustration (no matter what stance or side they choose) is the helplessness they feel as a spectator of this conflict ... they claim that if they were present when the atrocities were happening in the past they would stand up for peace and justice however they can only watch these innocent lives lost again and again and it breaks them from the inside ...
That's true
I have to counter this. Many things that you hear online are usually corrupted by bias or cut and edited context. This is especially the case for societies such as the Arab and Muslim world where freedom of speech and press is controlled by the government. Much of the things you're hearing from the Palestinian side are most of the time highly over exaggerated and flung worldwide through Qatari funds and supports.
this is just like saying what he said in the beginning that people claim it's about being humane, which isn't really true considering the fact people don't talk about other problems in the world that sometimes are far bigger
@@noamrotstain3182 my dude "freedom of speech" is controlled everywhere, even in the US. And you are not punished for having an independant voice just like every other country, you're just marginalized. Since you take everything from the palestinian side with a grain of salt, then you should doubt every information coming from israel's side too. You just have to know that people are indeed dying and that is not debatable
@@MouhibBayounes That is what I call "whataboutism" the West has freedom of speech that changes in degrees which you can easily search online. Israel is extremely high ranked. I can guarantee that I can argue the case for Palestine ten times better than any pro palestinian, in Israel I have access to all information and press regarding the situation, and I'm sure you heard of press companies such as "Haartez" known for their left standing take.
I cannot thank you enough, JJ. As an Israeli, my biggest dream is to live peacefully among our neighbours. People don't realize, we're much more alike than what we think. It's a shame we have leaders who only care about power and money. My deepest condolences to all lives lost in this war and all the previous.
Salaam to all.
So true
Salam to you, too
There is only jews and palestine
There is no Israel, you are welcome to be palestinian jews
Maybe stop settlers from stealing land? Which is a people issue rather than government issue
It will never happen watch Ask project they are indoctrinated to hate the Jews they also deny that Jews ever lived in holy land despite Bible proving it you must change their education system
Stalin was in favor of establishing Israel, and this reflected the USSR foreign policy up until exactly the Yon Keppur War, which made Brezhnev add Anti-Zionism (some would say it also contained some degree of antisemitism with its symbols used) to their propaganda apparatus, which was exported to the developing world and left wing organizations during the Cold War, and resulted in the addition of anti-Zionism to their anticolonial vocabulary
Yes, Stalin hoped to get rid of Soviet Jews that way.
@@user-oc6dh2yp2wmost of them didn’t migrate to Israel not until the 90s after the fall of the USSR. I’m not sure what was the date of formation of the Jewish Oblast
But still Zionism is colonialistic in Nature . The founder of Zionist movement said in his letters that Zionism is inspired by imperialism and colonialism. So anti Zionism= anti colonialism
@@user-oc6dh2yp2w not quite... it was mostly his hope that this will destabalize the region and cause the west to focus its military resources there and not on defending east europe from the domino effect.
also Israel in its first days was veeeery socialist. and hated Britain for the race laws against jews it made to calm down arabs during its mandate on Israel. some truly believed they'll turn soviet. (but they didn't. although they continued to be a democracy with the socialist party in power until 1977).
Not exactly. Israel and the Zionist movement were heavily socialist until 1977. In 1947 the USSR supported Israel, while the west mainly embargoed it until the first elections in 1949 - where the Democratic-Socialist party won the communist party.
People care more about Israel-Palestine because the land itself is culturally important. And also because Jews. People feel disproportionately strong feelings about Jews relative to the number of Jewish people in the world. Have been for millennia.
Oh yeah it’s not like thousands and millions of Palestine people are been killed and humiliated and imprisoned every single day..
@@Amalinggo away you antisemite
You mean WHITE people. White people are a global minority. Most Asian and African and Latino people simply don't feel bad for what happened in WW 2
I think modern Christianity culture also plays a factor as well.
It is not jewish that pushed it, it is Christianity and especially the evangelical
This is a genuinely great video! In times, where everybody feels encouraged to share their personal opinion or feelings, you managed to do a very unemotional, fact-based overview. Thank you very much.
I have several cases of friendships and even long-term relationships breaking up over the current conflict, but I think so has everyone. But I also have a rather weird example: in the Czech half of my family, many (especially older) people are openly extremely antisemitic (which I am deeply ashamed of), a sadly still very common problem in eastern Europe. Despite that and despite their open hatred for the US and its foreign policy, most of them still support the Israeli side in this conflict. Even though they hate Israeli jews so much, they percieve Israel as sort of "last bastion" against the "evil barbarism" of the "uncivilized, inhumane and brutal Islamist hordes". If Israel falls, so they argue, all of Europe will be the next victim of "those brutal, destructive masses". I think you find this combination very rarely in the West, especially considering, that most of the people I describe see themselves as politically very left-wing.
@8:55 he misses the correct use of "Anti-Semitism" though, and fell into conflating the term in the same way it has been conflated (wrongly) by Pro-Israelites in order to deflect criticism.
Semitic is a language tree (and consequently, cultural) comprising Hebrew, Arabic and Aramaic.
It is not referring to race or nationality or religion, and never was until pro-Israelites decided that "it does".
This feels bizarre to me but less so after considering the viewpoints of a Czech RUclipsr I followed in the beginning of the recent Russian-Ukrainian war. His discussions of his observations of “left-wing” people and “left-wing” viewpoints at home and abroad about the conflict were baffling, but it comes down to the history of your country and the political climate there.
I mean, it’s not as extreme, but if you compare the “left” of serving politicians in America to the left of serving politicians in Europe, the Americans would be considered right-wing or even far-right. But here, the furthest left most liberal politicians get are center, from a global perspective.
First of all, Semitic also refers to the race people who used Semitic language and antisemitism specifically means hate against Jews the word existed long before pro-Israel existed the argument that you are using is the same argument people used in the 40s it is a deeply antisemitic argument in itself and the use of that argument
No it isn't
20:35
How tf do past events not matter into understanding a context??
Like leave it to a white guy that looks like he hasn't left his mother's basement in years to tell you a well "balanced" and well "educated" take on a humanitarian crisis
And in case you share the same singular braincell as him and didn't get my point
Context = past events
Including many past and present horrific war crimes Israel committed
Examples:
- pouring cement into Gaza water pipes
- not allowing Palestinian to collect rain water for personal use and farming because "rain water belongs to Israeli settlers"
- targeting and arresting children as young as 3 years old to use as human shields
- targeted bombing on hospitals, schools and refugee camps
- forcing over 2 million people to evacuate to the already dense south Gaza then telling them to evacuate again to an even denser area
- prohibiting Palestinians from forging and farming Palestinian native plants like Olives and Zatar because they belong to "Israelis"
- cutting fuel from hospitals and baby incubators causing everyone on machines relying on that fuel to die
- stealing organs and skin from dead Palestinians (without consent) to use to treat Israeli patients which is called "Israel's skin bank"
-targeting over 70 journalists and their families since Oct 7th
And of course no list of War crimes is complete without mentioning the Nakkba 1948 which is the unprovoked event that caused the death and displacement of over 700 thousand Palestinians
And there are plenty more crimes i didn't mention
Use your god damn brains people
@@hkira1110 how does anti-semtic specifically refer to only Jews when Arabs are also sematic ? Genuinely asking here. Bcuz when the British kinda sent out the Jews to the desert they were basically having the semtic people "fight one another and figure it out ig"
What makes me heartbroken and sad is that as soon as this whole thing started, the Ukraine flag was dropped immediately. I haven't heard any news on the Ukraine Russian war ever since the Hamas attack and it makes me sick that people just drop things for personal gain if their actions speak louder than words.
I literally know people who were screaming their heads out about how horrific Russian crimes against Ukrainian civilians of rape and massacre and then the moment the Oct 7 attack happened they were bending over backwards trying to justify the Hamas slaughter. It really does prove people only support "the current thing." And then there's me simmering with rage over Azeri aggression against Armenia that the entire world has been ignoring...
use resources like bbc. lots of news still going on other there, even activity from US congress. your algorithm might be hiding that from you
I still see ukraine flags even just 12 hours ago,wtf are you saying,if anything,ukraine's the hot shit again
In the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict, it's crucial to consider multiple perspectives and historical contexts to gain a deeper understanding of the situation. I've noticed a diverse range of opinions here in India, and I believe this reflects the complexity of the conflict.
On one side, there are those who support Palestine, driven by a sense of solidarity due to religious and humanitarian reasons. It's important to acknowledge the ties between India and Palestine, including the fact that India was the first non-Arab country to recognize the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). This historical connection understandably influences some people's support for Palestine.
Conversely, there are those who support Israel, and one aspect of this support that often goes unnoticed is Israel's assistance to India during critical moments in our history. When India faced threats, such as the Indo-Pakistani Wars of 1971 and 1999, Israel provided us with armaments, ammunition, and intelligence, showing a level of support that wasn't reciprocated by many other Arabian nations.
This complex web of historical and geopolitical factors should encourage us to approach the Israel-Palestine conflict with a balanced perspective. It's important to prioritize a peaceful resolution to the conflict that respects the rights and aspirations of both Israelis and Palestinians. We should strive to support diplomacy and peaceful coexistence, while also addressing the root causes of the conflict, to ensure a better future for the people in the region.
It's worth remembering that the people of Israel and Palestine, like all people, deserve security, dignity, and a chance for a better life. Let's hope for a lasting peace that can bring an end to the suffering and create a path towards a brighter future for all involved.
By the way, English is not my first language; it's more like my fourth language. I've utilized AI to rephrase my message to ensure that my point is conveyed clearly
@@pratikmurari8182 I noticed that it was AI, but it is understandable in this context. I agree
@pratikmurari8182 I didn't even notice it was made by AI. Impressed you know 4 languages.
@@TrickiVicBB71This is obviously chatgptspeak, ask it about anything controversial and it will emphasise multiple pov things and never give a straightforward general answer.
One thing about Indians online on this topic is that I’ve seen an insane amount of Islamophobia coming from them
at British University, it’s very common to hear a pro-palestine standpoint, and assertions that Israel is just and American puppet state, and that the situation in Palestine is Apartheid.
Just to note: I didn’t study anything to do with Israel or Palestine, this is just from chatting to friends generally and mostly before the conflict as I graduated this summer before the war kicked off
What uni?
This is pretty much any university in the west as universities are generally Left leaning in the west
Brits complaining that Israel is an American puppet state sounds more like jealousy than justice.
As an American who lives in the Midwest, it sometimes feels like America is an Israeli puppet state dude to the amount of cow towing politicians have to do to Israel in order to achieve success. Not to mention the massive amounts of financial, military, media and cultural support we give to Israel.
@@SuperSmashDollsI mean the British government itself is just following America's lead on quite frankly every issue nowadays including this conflict, despite a large portion of Brits being pro palestine
A good overview on why outsiders care and how they view a situation that doesn't affect them personally through their own agendas and mindsets. One additional factor is the legacy of the Cold War. While the Soviet Union initially supported the creation of Israel, it later supported its enemies and the United States became a stronger ally. This set the stage for parts of the conflict to really be one of the proxy wars between the US and Soviet Union, and some of the language used by outsiders reflects that. Also re race: people are more familiar with American Jews, most of whom came from Eastern Europe, and don't realize that immigration patterns to Israel were very different. In Israel, it is actually more common to have a family that came from the Middle East or Africa, and many Israeli Jews look like Arabs.
Eastern European Jews themselves aren’t even slavs as well
I have empathy with Israel as Muslims try to destroy my country as well.
This whole thing started off so morally simple to me: Hamas viscously attacks Israel and takes women and children hostage, therefore Israel has every right to do whatever it takes to get them back from Hamas's stronghold, Gaza.
But just looking at the sheer amount of collateral dead in Gaza... it's no wonder people are asking if they are going too far, even if you consider the hostages. I just don't know what to think anymore. What a nightmare. I can only hope that whoever is left standing will have lost so much that they're willing to give peace a real, honest chance.
The fact that you actually believe october 7th was the start of everything and you're ignorant on how Israel was treating palestinians before is part of why so many people care about this issue. Israel committs injustices to palestinians regularly and yet our media only covers it when palestinians fight back in some way.
There are currently 30,000+ people dead in Gaza. It has gone too far. Netanyahu also said that their war against Gaza will continue even if all the hostages get released.
There are currently 30,000+ civilians in Gaza who have passed. Netanyahu even said that they won’t stop their war even after all hostages get released.
The Israeli/Palestine issue has just become a stand in for people's beliefs on other things and it has been interesting seeing people's shock at what other people's true beliefs are and what they consider justified. We should remember what they said when innocents were slaughtered
People's views for faraway things tells you a lot about them. When living comfortably it's not an achievement to be a normal, peaceful human being. The truth comes out under duress
Some people are mixing up “justified” with simply understanding the context for why something happened, it’s not the same as condoning it
The situation was similar with the Russian-language segment of the Internet, when anti-Russian-minded people believed that only a few people supported Putin, and that everyone in the country was just pretending to be normal in order not to get their asses kicked, and that the government was holding on only thanks to the support of law enforcers and militiamen, and pro-Putin people believed, that there are few "liberals" in Russia, because they saw them only at rallies on TV and did not communicate with them on the Internet, but when anti-Russian people realized that it is unreasonable to keep silent because of such an important event as the war, they started discussing the sins of Russia a hundred times more, and then pro-Russian people noticed them, became animated and started shitting back.
There's litteraly a genocide going on, wake up
This case is morality check
This was excellent. I watched it first and was so impressed I asked my husband to watch it. He dragged his feet because everything about this conflict is so much rage and noise and nothing is made clearer and you’re just left feeling exhausted and spent by everyone’s expended energies that don’t ever really go anywhere.
This video made sense of a lot things that didn’t make sense before (like “queers for Palestine”, for example, tho not cited, your breakdown of different drivers/priors helped us interpret seemingly bizarre things like that much better) it was so fair and just seemed correct and squared up with our own observations. We both felt better after watching it, not for being validated, cuz we weren’t, but we felt enlightened. Thanks JJ. Excellent work. More of this kind of content please. 🙏🏼
@@blaise262to add to this, the current Israeli government is itself homophobic, so it’s not as if this is an issue on only one side of governance/control.
And when I say government, I mean to controlling political parties and several ministers
To be fair, the "Queers for Palestine" is reacting to some early rhetoric from the pro-Israeli camp who were raising the point that Israel is more LGBT-friendly. So pro-Palestine supporters who are queer are responding that they care far more that the Israeli govt is killing 22k civilians.
As a comparison, should Americans not support Ukraine because that one battalion has neo-Nazis in it?
For the rest of the world, you are so lucky to be able to debate this issue of who is morally more correct protect that as best you can cuz Israelis and Palestinians don't have that luxury
Honestly Israel and Palestine feels like a simplistic good versus evil conflict for too many people on the planet. And of course they disagree on which side is good and which side is evil. But this conflict does feel way more existential than like “which side in Yemen should win their civil war”
The people who occupied the other people and stole their lands is the evil side no? Where’s the complexity with that?
Well that’s what I talk about in the video. What is it about this particular conflict that makes it easy for people to conceptualize one side as evil? That’s what I focus.
I think it's not just good vs evil. It's easy to see why jewish people want their own state but it's not easy to see why they would kill people and expand settlements just to aggravate the Palestinians. It becomes about good vs evil when one side consistently goes above and beyond to antagonize the much weaker side. Especially Palestinians in the west bank who are not even led by any terrorist organization yet they still face discrimination. If isreal wants peace and their own land. Maybe they can leave Palestinians in the west bank alone. Their very right wing government supported by Jewish religious fundamentalists are halting any chances for peace. I understand that Palestinians in the past have rejected opportunities for two State solutions. But they have also accepted later two state solutions but it always seems like whenever they get close to any resulotion something happens that halts the process. I think im this case, israel is the unambiguous oppressor especially when you consider how they dealt with the west bank
@@JJMcCullough When you talked about terrorism being identified with Muslims, you had a point, but I think you kinda missed the more generic good-vs-evil argument here about intentionally targeting civilians. It's been easy for many in the west to equate Palestinian -> intentionally targeting civilians with suicide bombings on buses and restaurants etc -> evil, while Israel -> only targeting terrorists -> good.
This is why events like the killing of journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, and the alleged airstrike/failed rocket at the hospital were such a huge deal in media coverage - these events put into question the assumption that Israel does not target civilians and thus is good.
@@projekcja I absolutely don’t condone or justify hamas’s despicable attacks. But at same time it feels like there’s very limited options for peaceful negotiation or peaceful pressure on Israel. When pro Palestinian people talk about boycotting Israel, Israel supporters just label that anti semitic. Again, not condoning violence on civilians. But sometimes it feels like there’s no peaceful way to resolve this conflict
In addition to the factors JJ mentioned, I think there may be a David-and-Goliath aspect to the conflict. Some people see the Palestinians as being underdogs who are bullied by the better-equipped and funded Israeli army, and this shapes their opinions. In many of the lesser-known wars cited in the comments, both of the sides are perceived as more evenly matched, and so people's passions are less inflamed.
The thing is - and I'm saying as an Israeli who is on the left, and thinks that we are our own greatest enemy - that the fact someone is weaker does not mean he is nicer or kinder. A lot of the organistions that fight colonialism can be not less and even more violent and cruel than what they are fighting in. Hamas is an antisemitic and fundamentalist organisation. Their charter is full with crazy conspiracy theories about jews controlling the world that will make the alt-right blush. When they invaded Israel on October 7'th the killed and kidnapped women and children. They killed and also kidnapped arab people, even when they saw that they speak Arabic and that they are mulslims-probably because they see every arab person that has even the slightest involvement with Israel as a traitor. Their leaders are billoners and live a life of luxury in Katar while their own people are suffering in the Gaza strip. People are just being childish and think it is a game.
Note that if you zoom out, the David-and-Goliath aspect to the conflict changes, with Israel, the lone Jewish state, being surrounded by vast countries, most of which are Arab and/or Muslim dictatorships hell-bent on Israel's destruction.
@@stefan4159I think that David vs Goliath story is for older generations, as that’s how they see Israel
Sure, depending on the dictators affiliation tho hostility towards Israel is almost never paired with any fondness for the palestinians. Israels immediate neighbours have had such issues with the refugee palestinian population that they would never risk granting that population any legitimasy or influence. Further afield depending on geopolitical affiliation, the oppononents of Iran would most likely intervene in some capacity if Hezbollah or Hamas etc. actually managed to do anything seeing them as extensions of Iran by the Saudis and others.
The Goliat-David comparison do not work in either direction. Its far to simple to think either "side" fits any role.
So true, I have always said that western society often favours the underdog story a bit too much, and loses sight of the bigger picture. This is the case with I/P. Too many people believe that smaller = underdog, yet ignore the historic proof that Israel too has been an underdog in the conflict many times.
Great job on this video, it really helped me understand the reasons why people may or may not support Israel or Palestine. I've never had an opinion on this conflict prior to this because I didn't know enough about it to pick a side. Now, after learning about it more, I still don't side with one or the other. I sympathize with Israel because the Jewish people have been so mistreated throughout history, and I think they deserve a country of their own. However, the Israeli government has definitely mistreated the Palestinian people and caused a lot of suffering for them. I stand with all the innocent civilians who are being affected. And unfortunately these days, opinions in the center like that are what gets the most hate.
How do you deserve a country of your own that you are stealing from other people? All it proves is that the Jews have learned nothing and when given the chance, would commit genocide like the germans
A country of their own was a widely accepted solution to persecution, even for Arabs in the early part of the 20th century.
Many places were suggested, actually.
The main problem is that they chose a territory in which another group of people were living, and strategically schemed to drive these people out of the land.
Nationalism can be good when you're fighting oppression, but if it becomes a weapon for oppressing others, watch out...
bro they hate arabs in that governm,entt
“Jewish people deserve their own country” so the US? There’s millions of Jews living in the US already, just second to the mentioned Jewish state.
Regarding antisemitism: In times in which the Israel/Palestine conflict is active, you might hear more antisemitism from the left, but when the conflict is dormant, you generally hear more from the right. It just doesn't get covered that much because it is ""what you'd expect"" whilst antisemitism from the left is more unexpected by the general public, thus it gets discussed more. Framing antisemitism as a nearly purely "left-wing problem" is kinda narrow-sighted.
How much of this “anti semitism” is just criticism of Israel?
The left is anti Zionist the right is anti semitic. Don't conflate the two.
@@yusefkhan1752
I've seen many people claim any criticism of Israel is brushed off as anti-Semitism but they show no proof of such behaviour from Israelis.
Most of the pro-palestians don't see Israel as a legitimate state and call for it to be dismantled. Despite their many public crimes I have not encountered anyone that calls for the demolition of a Russian or Chinese or English state.
I have definitely seen criticism of the actions of the Israeli government called "anti-Semitism" by the Israeli leaders. Both Israeli leaders and Conservative Americans will often call any criticism of Israeli politics "anti-Semitism" rather than actually respond to the complaint. @@zenxel
@@greywolf7577
That's odd. Throughout this conflict where many accusations have been thrown at the government, the only statements that I have seen called antisemitic are calls for the dismantlement of Israel.
I would add an additional, America-specific reason the American left is often sympathetic to the Palestinian cause - "We broke it, we bought it." The United States is actively involved in the conflict on Israel's side, and for people on the left in this country, there's a sense that the United States is responsible for this conflict looking the way it does and that therefore, Americans are capable of influencing the course of the conflict through activism to a degree that's not true of other, possibly even more deadly conflicts in other parts of the world. It doesn't explain everything on its own, but it's an ingredient in how the conflict is perceived by the left in the US.
EDIT: To be clear, I'm not endorsing this attitude or this viewpoint. I do think that left-wing Americans who are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause would agree that this is a reason they pay more attention to this conflict than many others.
This just seem so self centered of Americans to project themselves on a region of the world that existed and had its issues seeded long before the US was ever involved.
with these people there always seems to be "a sense that the US is responsible for every conflict"
so, ...
@@mariacheebandidos7183 In many cases they are. The US has their fingers in many global pies.
@@mariacheebandidos7183 But USA is giving a lot of money to Israel. In this case you have very clear line with "US is responsible too"
One thing I HATE in this conflict is the mixing of terms. I find it personally very important to specify what I`m talking about. When I talk about "the people of Gaza" for example, I mean "the people of Gaza", and not . But people love mixing these terms to muddy the waters when discussing this topic and it drives me up the wall.
**"I find it personally very important to specify what I`m talking about. When I talk about "the people of Gaza" for example, I mean "the people of Gaza", and not . "**
Too bad you ignore the fact that "the people of Gaza" put that as their government, and "the people of Gaza" actively cheered and danced when went into to Iseral, killed people at a music festival, went into homes where they killed men women and children, shot rockets at cities, and took people hostage.
So when "the people of Gaza" are tired of doing this in their name then get back to us.
Just because you rhetorically try to pretend like they arent on the same team doesn't mean you arent supporting by proxy as their actions are why "the people of Gaza" are in this mess.
One tough thing about this is that even in reality the lines are very blurry. A majority of adult Israelis will serve or have served in the Israeli military and have also democratically elected a government that is actively hostile to peace. Even the bare minimum of stopping illegal settlements is seen as unreasonable. Likewise, a majority of Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas. Hamas was also elected democratically, as much as some people would like to deny that. Does that mean every citizen is culpable for the crimes of the government they elected? Of course not. That said, I can't help but sympathize more with the Palestinians. Their lives are so so much worse than the average Israeli citizen, and it's hard to argue that this isn't largely due to the policies of the Israeli government. The opposite simply isn't true.
I just call a Muslim a Muslim. Those that support Muslim initiatives that are not Muslims are Muslim sympathizers. All other adjectives are secondary and change to suit a particular situation to advance Islam.
@@WillmobilePlus _"The people of Gaza put [Hamas] into government"_
Hamas couldn't even get 50% of the vote and they straight-up killed the rest of the government to win dominance - Palestinians didn't vote for that.
Plus Hamas would never have been this powerful if not for decades of funding and support from the Israeli government which sought to divide Palestinians between different authorities. Netanyahu has openly and proudly supported this strategy:
_"The prime minister also said that 'whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for' transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state"_ - Jerusalem Post 12/03/2019 "Netanyahu: Money to Hamas part of strategy to keep Palestinians divided"
This is exactly the video everyone needs to see. Outsiders’ unilateral obsession with this conflict specifically kinda concerns me
I have to swear not to boycott any Israeli businesses to do work for many state governments in the U.S. There is no parallel with any other geopolitical conflict around the world. Why would we treat this like it was any other geopolitical conflict when the same Israeli soldiers that are conducting this operation train our police in anti-protest tactics?
A lot of people in the comment section living on colonised land pointing and yelling at other people for living on 'colonised land'.
This is a good point. I'm very conscious of the fact that any "anti-colonial" messages about Israel's very existence could also apply to me and my kids. That being said there probably should be consequences for present-day expansions into the west bank... but that's almost a whole other issue.
Even the colonised people in the Americas and elsewhere hold very strong opinions of Palestine.
Brother 40,000 Gazans are dead. Most of them women and children. Just have a secular state. If you’re worried about the oppressed doing to them what their oppressors did don’t, because they know better.
This argument is terrible considering the governments in the colonized land are funding the current colonization
@jesualdocortez6426 brother I don't get my sources from hamas
Ah yes this comment section will be perfectly civil with no controversy whatsoever
Currently making popcorn 🍿
It's actually been much calmer and more reasonable than expected.
I really think that there will be little conflict here
@@BradyPostma agreed I have been rather pleasantly surprised by the comments. Video was pretty neutral and covered most of the perspectives so I think there’s not a ton to latch on to
JJ has good subscribers.
I had a bit of that 'civilization' vs 'barbarism' perspective play out in real time for me. Growing up in Pakistan, I had mostly seen the conflict couched in the 'religious' perspective, though it never really stuck with me. But when I first met both Israelis and Palestinians at an NGO summer camp in the US in my teenage years, I ended up liking the Israeli kids more than the Palestinian ones because to me one side was just 'nicer' and less 'rowdy/crude/rude' than the other. But then during various activities, we learned just how absolutely messed up the Palestinian kids' lives were (lots of dead family members, true hardships that are hard even to recount) and a lot of what it means to become 'barbaric' became more understandable for me. I don't quite know where I've ended up on this issue today, but all I know is seeing pain on one side given so much more importance than pain on the other has soured me quite a bit on various institutions and peoples that I used to respect and look up to
I am an Israeli, and I am used to getting so much hatred online, especially from the people of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia and Malaysia, far away countries that Israelis have no issue with, so I see your point about religion. I must say that reading your balanced and humaine approach, seeing that pain is all around, gives me some hope, even though we are at some very dark times right now.
As a fellow Pakistani Shaheer, I agree with you!
there is no solution when 2 groups want the same land except share or fight to take it all.
@@ronblack7870 Plenty of people would be ok with sharing the land if they trusted each other. They are scared of each other and with good reason given the past. It’s not just about land.
It's completely dishonest to consider only 2% of history.
Frustrated by confusing & contradictory information, I researched the history of the land we call Israel and Palestine today. Who lived on it first?
Israelites lived on land 1,658 years before the ancestors of Palestinians. Palestinian ancestral land is the Arabian Peninsula. Palestinian is a modern word from the 20th century. "Palestine" was the name given by the Romans to Judea after the Bar Kochba revolt, although the name's origins go back even further, perhaps being based on Philistine.
Only the Canaanites and Philistine predate the Israelites. The descendants of Canaanites and Philistine is complex and not entirely resolved.
The Israelites arrived C1300 BCE and established the Israelite Kingdoms of Israel and Judah. The Kingdom of Israel fell to the Assyrians in 722 BC, while the Kingdom of Judah was conquered by the Babylonians in 586 BCE.
Next the land changed hands many times, until Arab Muslims conquered it in 638 CE and established an Islamic Caliphate. The Arab population, increasingly identifying as Palestinian particularly in the 20th century, has been a significant part of the social and cultural fabric of the area, especially during the periods of Islamic rule and the Ottoman Empire.
A timeline:
Canaanite Period (c. 3000 - 1200 BCE): The earliest known inhabitants were Canaanites, a Semitic-speaking people.
Philistine Period (c. 1175 - 604 BCE): Philistines settled along the coastal areas, mostly in the Gaza Strip.
Israelite Kingdoms (c. 1020 - 586 BCE): The Israelites, also a Semitic-speaking people, established the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah.
Assyrian and Babylonian Periods (722 - 539 BCE): Assyrians and Babylonians conquered the region.
Persian Period (539 - 332 BCE): Persia conquered the Babylonian empire, including this area. The Persians later reinstated Israel as a country.
Hellenistic Period (332 - 167 BCE): Conquest by Alexander the Great, followed by the Ptolemaic and Seleucid rules.
Hasmonean Kingdom (167 - 37 BCE): Jewish rule restored after the Maccabean Revolt against the Seleucids.
Roman Period (63 BCE - 324 CE): The area became a part of the Roman Empire, with Israel remaining a kingdom within that empire, with Rome appointing the king, until AD 44.
Bar Kochba Period (132 CE - 136 CE): Simon bar Kochba let a Jewish revolt and for a short time revived Jewish sovereignty over land, until it was brutally crushed by the Roman Emperor Hadrian, who renamed Judea as Syria Palaestina to remove any trace of Jewish connection to the land.
Byzantine Period (324 - 638 CE): Christian rule under the Byzantine Empire.
Islamic Caliphate Era (638 CE - 1099 CE): Arab Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 CE, introducing Arab rule and Islamic culture to the region. Arabic gradually replaced Aramaic and Greek as the dominant language.
Crusader Period (1099 - 1187 CE): European Christians captured Jerusalem and established the Kingdom of Jerusalem.
Ayyubid and Mamluk Periods (1187 - 1516 CE): Saladin, a Kurdish Muslim leader, defeated the Crusaders. The Mamluks, who were of various ethnicities including Turkic and Circassian, succeeded the Ayyubids.
Ottoman Period (1516 - 1917 CE): The Ottoman Turks controlled the region, and the Arab populace lived under Ottoman rule.
British Mandate (1917 - 1948 CE): British control after World War I. Increased Jewish immigration leads to tensions between Jews and Arabs.
State of Israel (1948 - Present): Established in 1948, leading to ongoing conflicts with Arab Palestinians.
But with all this, there has never been a Palestinian state.
I'm a first year IR student, and the stuff i've learned this year, not only specifically about the middle east and the conflict between Palestine and Israel but how world politics work, has been really shocking and jarring to the belief systems i've held close ever since i was pretty young. I used to view the conflict through a very anti-imperialistic pov, thinking "oh, these poor arabs are getting genocided by white settlers!" but truth is, the conflict is way more complicated (and the white part might not even be fully accurate) and multi-layered, and the israeli displacement of arabs is only one axis. No matter if you believe in a two state solution, one state "managed" by Israel, one state "managed" by palestinians or all the other possibilities, everything has very deep political and humanitarian consequences for both Israelis and Palestinians, and very importantly, it's not prudent or possible to assign human black and white moral positions to states, it's not a thing of whether Palestine is good and Israel is bad or viceversa. I wish people on social media stopped simplifying the conflict and were more open to discussion instead of shunning every moderate argument for being "zionist" or "antisemitic". Ultimately, the Israeli far-right (Netanyahu's people) and Hamas make a horseshoe, they're ironically pretty close to each other and they need each other to exist. Ultimately, i'm pro-civilians and pro-peace, we need to look more at the present possibilities and consecuences of any action instead of just looking at what happened in the past or what we wish would've happened and seeking retaliation for it.
Oh look at you you're impressionable and dumb, fantastic IR Student lmao.
There cant be peace and geopolitics will never matter till one side of this agrees the other has the right to live. Thats the entire conflict. Many outside forces manipulate the situation. The suez crisis that were now repeating comes to mind. Unfortunately china runs the media and controls the influencers and their narrative is winning public opinion. Thats been the play all along. Repeat this over and over till the pr goes in their favor then rally around the destruction of israel as the war call to reform the ottoman empire and attack the whole world. Theyre ipenly saying for 100 years. Its not a theory. People are blinded by their own world view. Liberals as we know them dont exist outside of very specific places. These who thing is a mess and the facts have stopped mattering. Thats why this more dangerous then ever.
So... your a right-wing z1on1$t insted of a far-right one... ok... no difference, a nazi is still a nazi no matter it's shade. Isn't-real is the last appartheid state that have just formalised it's death wish. Zhe -aryan- -exeptional- chosen ones will follow the trend of history of it's predecessor and others illegal alien.
The grievances and basic conflict can't be well-understood without examining the interwar period of 1918 up through WW2 - the lead up decades to when Israel is made "official" are most revealing.
From Balfour to Sykes/Picoh through Mandatory Palestine up to the Nakba is all essential knowledge.
Cheers!
It feels so weird when people say Jews are white when they descended from Western Asia and has been discriminated by Europeans in the past...I get they mixed in Europe but even then there's also Jews coming from Asia (usually with Persian history) and even in the North Africa.
Im so concerned abt people screaming "gas the jews", attacking synagogues and jewish people around the world (with even one of them being MURDERED by a Pro-Hamas protestor) by saying this is "antizionism not antisemitism"... By the way they are acting it literally is the same thing
as an Israeli, one group that really surprised me with its motives for enthusiasm regarding this issue is the caucasus:
Apperantly, Israel's arms deals with Azerbijan have been a big game changer over there, which ironically causes the muslim population of Azerbijan to be one of the most supportive toward Israel- and the christian population of armenia to become full of a lot of amti-israeli hate. and it's kind of wierd since we Israelis frankly don't have strong opinions on the war there.
I guess a lot of it also has to do with Americanism: Armenia used to be allied with Russia, while Azerbijan is closely allied with Turkey, a NATO state. Still quite wierd to see a muslim-majority country so supportive of us.
Not only they r Muslims, also shiaas ,Iran has huge azeri population !
Foreign policy. I still don't understand it all, but somewhat better since I've been watching Beau of the Fifth Column's channels. He also does a good job of framing and explaining, as well as fact checking. Also, Vlad Vexler has interesting insights into politics and philosophical considerations.
You should have seen here in Toronto or actually around the world the support from the Persian community
@@TheSpyboygamer Persians are cool. One of my best friends in elementary school was from Iran. It's good to see lots of different people coming out in support of the Palestinians. Although, based on a lot of the comments, we should find a way not to lose sight of other communities in similar situations, such as the people of Yemen, the Uyghurs and Rohingya.
As Israelis how do you sleep walk eat knowing you government are doing genocide in just few kilometres away from you
I always found weird that the time where War on terror rhetoric was the greatest was during the 2000s as opposed to the 2010s when ISIS actually was the biggest and most powerful expression of Islamic fundamentalism
Probably because it didn't directly affect the US as the 2000's did - Europe, Africa and Asia are more concerned about it though but somehow I guess after 9/11 it felt like an expectation.
@@zjzr08 isis was a tool
B/c there was only one major attack claimed to have been done by an ISIS sympathizer in America (the Pulse gay nightclub shooting in Orlando in 2016) which got bound up with the issues of gun control and LGBT rights in America. In that same timeframe hundreds more of any orientation, race, gender, class, and ethnicity died all across Western Europe in Islamist attacks involving guns, explosives, chemicals, even simple everyday things like TRUCKS. And of course, mass rape of young European women.
Additionally, Arabs are to Europe what Latinos are to America. But I can confidently say as a resident of the American border state of Arizona that Latinos are well-meaning, hard-working people who believe in the American Dream. And it helps that America is a country of immigrants at heart. Europe is a collection of ethnostates and the Arab migrants typically reject assimilation into those societies, meaning they are way more likely to get into crime. That is further fuel for islamophobia in Europe that just kinda dissipiated in America once we fucked up Iraq really hard.
Because by that point the American invasion of the Middle East was already a decade old. Rhetoric is only necessary to get things started, once the snowball is in motion the government tends to ease off in that regard, and everyone else follows suit.
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were already seen as failures by that point. Everyone hated ISIS, but no one on either side was particularly enthused to take action against them.
good video
i can appreciate how much you tried to stay impartial and unbiased here
its probably one of the better introduction videos to the conflict, good work
I have family living in Israel and over the years i have lost all my friends because i have taken subsequent trips to Israel to visit my family.
Not once have friends or colleagues asked me if i was safe, not once did they ask me how i am affected. They are much quicker to put me in my place and school me on why Israel is the bad guy. I have absolutely no friends and no job. Most colleagues i had in my life were muslim, and i can tell you, they stop liking me once they know about my Jewish/Israeli background.
That's horrendous. What a blizzard situation. Where are you from?
Is sad that every time a conflict happens the people's from that particular region become a sort of target. Is Unfortunate the dismissal both Israelis and Palestinians get when they many even have different options about the conflict.
People are shocked, I think is more about your Israeli background than your Jewish background, who knows.
@@bupirochiIt's both, they generally hate jews in general
None of this happened.
I was raised conservative evangelical, and above any geopolitical issue support for Israel was always taught as paramount and preached as divinely ordained. As I grew more centrist I was able to dismantle many of my previous beliefs, but a very select few were never to be questioned, support for Israel being among them. The main reason I heard was that a modern Israel needed to be in place to "usher in the second coming of Jesus Christ" and I can't believe it wasn't until being a grown adult that I realize how *terrifying* and doomsday cult that sounds. Pointing out that Israel has even slight flaws in it's human rights record was tantamount to rebuking God. It's amazing the mental gymnastics I was taught in order to justify violence in the name of the *apocalypse!?!*
Yeah, premillenialists believe that the existence of Israel will accelerate the return of Christ and the millennium of peace. Premills also get excited over other conflicts that can be interpreted as events from Revelations, which is why you may have seen some compare the Russian invasion of mainland Ukraine as being the attack of the kings of the East.
as a jew I see it as weird that some christians believe that (as we very much don't believe in jesus christ being the messiah)
The Seventh Day Adventists gathered together to welcome the oncoming apocalypse their leader predicted. When it didn't happen, he said he got his math wrong and recalculated, so they gathered again. Nothing. They call this the "great disappointment." They want the end of the world because they believe they'll live forever in the next one. That's usually the bent of all doomsday cults. They think this world ending is good because they will live forever in heaven or some sort of eternal paradise. No care for this world, they're just temporary inhabitants of, they really belong in heaven. It's not just frightening, it's delusional. They're taking the lives they have and are trading it for an empty box.
@@knightshade2654I'm not sure what you mean by premillennialist. Do you mean gen x, most of their parents, the baby boomers and then their grandparents, the world war generations (silent and greatest)?
In the 90s you couldn't criticize capitalism without the average person taking it as a criticism on America itself. No distinction between the two. After about the 20th time it happened to me, with my physical body being threatened at the same time (the 90s was a different time, society was more accepting of emotional reactions and people would fly off about trivial things. In reality=the % of people with stunted brain development, thusly less control of and less understanding of their emotions, due to lead toxicity from leaded gasoline, was much, much higher than today), I asked how Yellowstone and Yosemite were expressions of capitalism, or if capitalism was why the Redwoods grow here.
The distinction has grown more aware in the zeitgeist, and nuance can actually be introduced.
I think we're at that point in society now, much like you describe people being unwilling to unravel the conflation of Israel: the state and Israel as a catch all for all the Jewish peoples in the Lavant. I agree, for forever it's been criticizing Israel=antisemitism and that's absolutely luda. Netenyahu and his hardline rightwing accelerationalists he has in his cabinet are NOT above criticism for the, as of today, appx ~ 3700 children that have died due to their indiscriminate shelling. Nor does Hamas get a pass for murdering 1700 last week.
I feel any rational person would be against genocide, regardless of whomever is commiting it, and doubly more so if that bad actor were their home country or one of its allies.
If no one holds to decency, decency will demonstrably disappear.
Back when I was 12, I had to write an argumentative essay on the Israel-Palestine conflict for school. Ever since then, whenever something happens with the region, someone in my friend circle or family asks me what it means for the conflict. It's very sobering seeing people sort of take sides like it's a sporting event. Seeing the same mental reasoning one might make for a call being given to the opponent but for why the suffering of one group is deemed necessary. Same thing happened with Ukraine's invasion as well. I don't understand what's going on with this world, or maybe I'm not supposed to understand or reason with it. For the only reason is that human are emotional creatures who aren't driven by logic but emotions.
I am interested to know what's your take
When you were 12? Where are you from? That seems wildly outside the scope of a typical middle school education in the USA atleast. I defintley had to study & write essays in college on the conflict in isreal-palestine but I dont think even highschool level curriculums include that, & still i'd never consider myself any sort of expert whatsoever on the matter & recognize my minimal knowledge is not anywhere near enough to have some passionate opinion about it, it takes literally years of study in history & of the entire region for hundreds of years, even grad students are probably still figuring it out like I would only trust an actual professional historian/phd or otherwise someone who works in foriegn policy/cia/maybe military thats been stationed the area type of thing, I truly dont understand people reading wikipedia & twitter& a few biased news articles suddenly feeling like experts &having some passionate furious opinion on the matter at all.
Just curious, private or public?
My school was very advanced in terms of the topics we were expected to write on. My English class in 8th grade had me write on the experience of slavery in the US during the American Revolution.@@ar4203
It was a private charter school.@@d.7611
I like how you aren't being judgmental and not displaying any moral stance. Simply describe things as they are.
When conflicts happen, people like to watch and judge from a comfortable distance. It’s just human nature to avoid conflicts, but do nothing to quell them. That doesn’t change the fact that I’m sick and tired of hearing about a conflict that’s been happening for over 70 years now.
Something i think needs to have light shown on it. I knew a girl in college who is an Arabic, Islamic, Israeli. We hear about how the modern Israeli state was formed, and (while she never went in to details about why her family wasn't forced out) she did say that there is a community of Muslims who stayed in Israel. Now the sad thing is, i would love to talk to her about this and other things I cannot find her online.
Yes , Israel has 2 million Arabs . About 70% are Muslim and 30% Christian I think.
U also have roughly 100k Druze and 100-200k Bedouin I think
they stayed because they didn't want to live in the 5th century
If you go to Israel you will notice Muslims everywhere, they make up a large portion of the population. And for the most part Jews and Muslims interact normally. It’s not what most people assume.
There’s an Arab Muslim Israeli named Khabiya Muhammad who I follow on Instagram. He gives a great perspective on the Arab Israeli view of the conflict. He also served in the IDF .
Here in Australia we had Aiia Massarwe brutally murdered. She fit your description, being an Arabic Israeli national.
The left wing media naturally loved to call her “Palestinian”.
This is such a good breakdown,. I occasionally lament the way similar-sized ongoing conflicts (such as the Tigray genocide in Ethiopia and the Burmese Civil War in Myanmar) are overlooked compared to the high level of media attention on Israel-Palestine, and I think you've nailed why: for most Americans, those conflicts are too alien and disentangled from their own ideological priors to stir up passion the way Israel-Palestine does.
Yep, and it’s also because of the reach of the religions involved where Israel-Palestine is concerned
Christianity is obviously the biggest religion in the Western World, and many Christians see a religious imperative to defend Israel (even if they don’t support the actual Jewish people)
Same for Judaism of course
And then of course Islam has a reach across much of the globe as well, which gathers worldwide sympathy towards Palestine
Then of course you have major religions with adherents who take a side in Israel-Palestine based on THEIR religion’s relations with Jews or Muslims
For instance you have Hindus in India taking Israel’s side and spreading misinformation online about Palestine because of the Hindu-Muslim religious conflicts in India
There is also no other conflict where a ceasefire is considered almost blasphemous.
Yes but Israel has received 1/3rd of all American aid since WW2. I don’t think it has received 1/3rd of the media attention until very recently. Unless you’re in the Middle East, where unless your country agrees to Zionism you will not be allowed to enter the “global community”. Strange in my opinion but bizarre that it took this long to be allowed to be spoken of.
the biggest factor is the fact that israel is small and relatively safe. Israel is a democracy which naturally allows journalists to settle there. This incentivizes journalists globally to settle in the safe developed tel aviv, and then only have to drive an hour or less to gaza and the west bank to get footage of a "warzone" whether in gaza or the west bank. meanwhile in ethiopia or congo or syria or wherever, journalists are deliberately targetted, not allowed in the first place, or simply wouldnt want to risk their lives in order to have the same coverage that they could get in israel/palestine. This factor probably accounts for the vast overreporting on the i/p conflict over other wars that are 10x deadlier over a 10x shorter span of time
There is a reason Hindus hate Muslims
The one good thing the British did was give back land to the Hindus and the Muslims have been salty ever since.
Christianity and Islam have both proven to be religions about conquest.
Did you know Buddhism used to be thriving in Afghanistan used to.
A lot of religions and cultures are gone or dying because of both these religions
In Malaysia, some major American brands have suffered huge losses over the last few months. As a Muslim majority country, big brands like Starbucks, McDonald's and to a lesser extent KFC etc. have been boycotted to a point where some outlets in smaller townships have shut down operations. This is unprecedented - there are instances where, in order to cut cost to prevent from shutting down - the guy who takes your order at the drive-thru is also the same person who packs it, which in better times was often not the case. Unfortunately, what these boycotting Muslims can't and refuse to wrap their heads around is the fact that the large majority of these chain's employees demography - they are also local Muslims, who are of the lower income groups and are highly dependent on these hourly wages to survive, taking up jobs ranging from server to kitchen, cleaners to delivery riders. There were even office staffs in the HQ who were peer pressured by friends/family into resigning, during a job market that has limited well-paying opportunities and during an economy where every price is rising except salary.
Frankly, a chain like McDonald's will not feel even a pinch from a market boycott as small as Malaysia, in the bigger scale of things the boycott did nothing than to hurt their fellow Muslims. A sad state of affairs where irrational anger and exaggerating rhetoric trumps common sense.
Also, both of the two religions involved face extreme amounts of hate and prejudice around the world. Any given person is likely to have negative opinions of at least one of them, which makes the decision to support the other side extremely easy.
The hate against the two sides' respective religions is yet another reason that the conflict is very easy to appropriate to one's preexisting prejudices.
Yes, I do talk about that.
I'm a Canadian Jew from Montreal. Growing up, I went to private Jewish schools, which were moderately religious but extremely Zionist. I was taught the Jewish / Israeli side of the conflict, which essentially boiled down to "all the other countries in the region want to wipe out Israel, so any action Israel takes is de facto one of self-defense and justifiable." It took me much longer than I'd like to admit before I started questioning this narrative. These days, my position pisses off pretty much everyone - my Jewish family is upset that I'm not 100% on the side of Israel, but my leftist friends are upset that I have ANY support for Israel whatsoever.
As an American-Israeli currently in israel I agree, emotions are high currently . I consider myself a very moderate Zionist , Israel has over its history committed certain crimes, that’s a fact that can’t be denied. but comparing it to its adversaries in the Middle East / the Palestinians themselves is pretty laughable in my opinion
Hope u are safe man . My relatives in NYC are pretty terrified going out with kippas or any Jew-related wearables
Because they hate Jews.
you just described basically my exact experience, except I grew up in toronto
How dare you have any nuance whatsoever
I live in iran and a lot of surprising support for Israel is seen in the people that largely comes from the fact that our (in recent years) hated Islamic regime sides with Palestine so strongly and you know (the enemy of my enemy). sorry for the bad English btw
That's actually fascinating and I am curious seeing the recent protests due to Masa Amini(sp?)...I know Persians sorta has an ancient connection with Jews.
@@zjzr08 @zjzr08 yeah the protests were against the morality police and the regime itself and yes there's historical connections between Jewish people and Persians in the past (also there's some Jewish places of worship in iran ) however there isn't a lot of Jewish people left in iran these days because of the maltreatment by the Islamic republic. for example after the recent attack on Israel the next day some of the loyalists of the Islamic republic went and put Palestinian flags up the doors of such places of worship even though they have nothing to do with Israel here's some pictures if you're interested ....
Anyway it's a complicated situation a few days after that football fans in the stadium shouted out "put that Palestinian flag up your a**" at the people in charge who were trying to raise that flag.
i had links to picture and video of both incidents but RUclips apparently doesn't like it.
anyway sorry for the long ranting and I'm a bit out of practice with English i hope you found it interesting
This is a very good video, but I just want to say that as an Israeli it is actually pretty depressing to realize that foreigners feign interest in this conflict just to strengthen their own biases and beliefs. Some Israelis do that, but after big calamities like October 7th we look at this conflict from the POV of protecting our homes and wanting our nation to continue existing. Imagine seeing your home burning and getting sympathies for it but then learning that people sympathize with you just to validate their own beliefs and project them unto it, and that people with different beliefs end up supporting those who burned your home in the same manner. Nobody actually sees us.
I can't say much about Palestinians but I'd guess they would feel the same.
It’s a weird phenomenon. If one is a Jew in Diaspora, Israel’s existence is still fundamentally personal (from relationships with people in Israel to Jews living in Diaspora no longer being, fundamentally, refugees lucky to be permitted to live in the nations they do b/c they have no where else to go). And as antisemitism gets more blatant here, of course, the need for a Jewish state is repeatedly affirmed.
Thanks for your comment. Wishing you safety and peace.
What you wrote is so true. Its feel like they made gaza and israel an arena and we all are their gladiators, so they can enjoy expressing righteousness and humanity while providing them sick entertainment and validation for their whatever hate and racism they have.
Maybe they need to apologize for the Hebron massacre..... i´m just saying....
Sure. As the leaders of israel did stright after and since. What was the Palestinian leadrs respont for the 7/10 massacre?
@@AlejandroGonzalez-ej4lp
I was born and raised in Malaysia, and currently living in Australia.
I have Muslim friends from my childhood actually wanting to go join HAMAS in their jihad against Isreal and Jews. It's so fucked. They were born and raised in Malaysia, as far as I know, have never left Malaysia, have no contact with anyone from Isreal or Palestine in their life, and they genuinely have this burning hatred for Isreal through Islam as their only connection.
Similarly currently in Australia, I have Lebanese friends that both are supporting Isreal and/or HAMAS. It's a bit weird as some have been displaced by the Palestinians themselves, these ones are usually the Christian Lebanese group... and you have the Muslim Lebanese group that are all out in the streets in support for HAMAS.
The left vs right perspective isn't so obvious outside of US/EU. Religion is probably the bigger driver on this side of the world.
Yeah probably not because of the constant apartheid state being carried out by Israel...yeah only the quran that drive them
I am a Bangladesh exmuslim. it's the same on our social media
@@tuanmohdarfantuankhusairry2977
21% of Israelis are Arabs. With fully equel rights to the Jews. How much Jews living in Gaza? Oh, wait.
@@y.l7455they is btw, orthodox jews, u can look up
@@y.l7455except that there are Citizen with no passeports so they have no nationality ... Just saying !
As an Israeli-Canadian, I'm impressed with your knowledge and analysis for someone from the outside. Greetings from a fellow Vancouverite.
Thanks, but I think this video is primarily ABOUT analysis from the outside
@@JJMcCullough Yes true, but I'm still impressed. I also think you did a good job staying neutral and presenting the left and the right from an objective perspective.
Did you migrate from Canada to Israel?
During the events of the Palestinian Nakba in 1948, armed Zionist gangs committed dozens of massacres that claimed the lives of thousands of Palestinian civilians in various villages and cities. There were many Palestinian villages that were wiped out along with all their residents. The most prominent of these massacres is the Tanturiya massacre, where there is a documentary containing testimonies How did Israeli soldiers rape women and kill the people of the village, The Deir Yassin massacre, according to international sources. The stomachs of women were cut open while they were alive with spearheads(in fact, t fifty-five boys and girls survived the Deir Yassin massacre. I know this because there was a great woman named Hind Al-Husseini who took them in and took care of them. This great woman is the one who founded my school, Dar Al-Tifl Al-Arab (which means the home of the Arab child). The Sabra and Shatila massacre is considered one of the most horrific massacres committed in the modern era. The massacre lasted 3 days, starting on September 16 and ending on the 19th of the same month. Lebanese militias, accompanied by the Israeli army, carried out mass killing operations in the Sabra and Shatila camp located in Lebanon, killing about 1,300 Palestinians and Lebanese, according to Palestinian researcher Bayan Nuwaihid al-Hout in her book “Sabra and Shatila,” 20 years after the massacre occurred. The “Ramla” massacre on June 1: Deceptions Israeli residents of the city of Ramla when they were given the choice between displacement from the city or mass imprisonment, which enabled them to kill a large number of them (estimated in the hundreds) and dump the bodies on the city's main road. After this massacre, only 25 Arab families remained. The “Al-Dawayma” massacre on 29 October, survivors of the massacre say that children were killed during the massacre by smashing their skulls with sticks.
As an Israeli-Israeli, i see many inaccuarcies with terminology referring to the conflict, which is extremly critical when surrounding this topic. For anyone who views this video- although not discussing the conflict directly- as unbiased, you are mistaken, since the American view on this matter is partial by nature.
Next comment will be the explanation as far for why that is.
I'd like to point out that this obsession is mostly concentrated in countries with an Abrahamic cultural background, likely because the role of Israel factors heavily in those cultures' mythology. You don't see nearly as much attention given to this topic from India, China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, etc.
Well, India supports isreal because they have a feud with islam
on the contrary, india tends to be very pro-israel (and pakistan very pro-palestine) because of the history of hindu/muslim conflict between india and pakistan. russia also doesn't fit, because they're strongly christian (completely aligning with right wing US religion-based homophobia and transphobia) but even more strongly (at least in terms of their talking points) anti-imperialism (through the specific angle that anything america does is imperialism, and anything russia does, for example, is a retaliation against it). so russia is extremely pro-palestine because they see israel as an arm of the US. an earlier inverted version of this was pro-palestinian people supporting russia against ukraine, because they saw/see ukraine as a puppet controlled by the US and russia's invasion as self-defense against a NATO threat.
Christianity, Judaism and Islam all originated in the Middle East, so it is natural that people of those religions feel a kinship with that region.
its mostly muslims man...
@@gerardacronin334 you do not know what the arab conquest was or what the levant is. shhhh
Referring to Israel's occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem as "Apartheid" and "Colonialist" is not a far-left or even a Pro-Palestine position- it is the position of the UN, Amnesty International, B'Tselem, and the vast majority of nation-states. Indefinite occupation and population transfer is a war crime according to the most basic principles of International Law which Israel is a signatory of.
nice one there trying to sneak the bullshit conspiratorial colonialist accusation alongside the bullshit international criticism that is calling israel an apartheid state.
@@tacotown4598they're right though- it's not a secret. look it up for yourself if you're so sure they're wrong.
@@bruhdudeguyman I don’t doubt that amnesty international says Israel is apartheid, I find that criticism to be bullshit. Just because powerful people say something doesn’t mean it’s correct.
@@tacotown4598Amnesty International isn't powerful. Chill.
@@hendddd the un is, and it couldn't even get a codemnation of the islamic nationalist genocidal terrorist group which started the current war into it's resolution for a humanitarian ceasefire in gaza.
It's interesting to see how in many ways this conflict aligns the western leftwing with eastern rightwing ideologies, and the western rightwing is increasingly aligned with eastern leftwing ideals for this part of the world.
Interesting. I don't know anything about eastern left and right wing ideologies, could you elaborate a bit?
@@torih230 most countries in the east currently tend to have very right wing authoritarian governments, many times religious as well. But these countries tend to oppose western ideals, and through that will sell themselves as being anti-colonial and anti-imperial. The western leftwing tends to align with them due to this framing, and that is further exacerbated when you throw in socialist and communist ideas. Leftwingers in eastern countries tend to care most about the individual freedoms that they do not get to experience in their home countries and will generally oppose their ruling governments. Which will tend to align with rightwingers in the west who also oppose these foreign powers.
This dynamic is many times contradictory of course, as leftwingers regardless of location still generally favor liberal social policies while rightwingers generally prefer conservative social policies. But in general eastern countries are overall much more socially conservative so even the leftwingers are generally not quite as radical as those in the west. In some ways this makes an argument for the Western rightwing with Eastern leftwing "alliance" not being quite as shocking as the Western leftwing with Eastern rightwing "alliance".
I find it interesting that the majority of youtube content I've seen related to the Israel Palestine conflict has been focused on the topic of the difficulty in picking a side. I guess having so many different lenses to look at the situation with has made it difficult to just grab a flag and wave it like with some of the other issues that have cropped up during out social media era.
Why does everyone need to pick a side. And demonize the other side? Most Israelis and Palestinians do not want to live in violence. They’re stuck in a region that has terrible history and high tensions at all times. Everyone is suffering here.
@@MwasserExactly. How about those in power acting in the best interest of their peoples, especially their lives. Seriously, people need to understand that neither Netanyahu nor Hamas have widespread support. But then that's not the story most of the media want to tell.
@@Mwasserthats the truth, Israel will never know peace until Palestinian have peace.
@@abcddef2112 And Palestinians will never have peace until they recognize that Israel deserves a peaceful existence too. It’s a two way street.
@@sjappiyah4071 Yeah thats the truth too honestly. Radicals on power on both side will never resolve the conflict.
Israeli here. Before this war I had believed that Peace could be achieved with the Palestinian's, I was fully with the idea that the UAE Israel peace treaty would bring a new age of peace for mostly everyone involved in the conflict, Except Iran of course.
On october 7th, I had lost a dear family member. A 60 year old harmless person, who had grandchildren and children to come home to, went fishing when he was caught in the missile barrage. The civilians around went into hiding in a nearby Rocket shelter, when live grenades were thrown inside and the doors was shut tight, Nobody survived.
It pains me that innocent civilians on both side's must suffer. It pain's me how much this will affect the American citizen's who watch their government give billions to foreign countries instead of taking care of American issue's.
But I must speak out my opinion, This conflict is beyond all logical reason now.
It is hard to argue about this conflict, Because everyone is so black and white now. Support Israel? You're a terrorist (And i personally had death threats sent to me by Iraqi's and Egyptian's) Support Palestinian's? You're a terrorist.
I've come to face a reality where I do not like the Israeli government, What they've done in the last 3 year's has hurt many Israeli's, Jewish and Muslim, But the People are so incrediblly mad at Hamas right now that feeling empathy torwards Innocent Palestinian's is impossible and extremely shunned upon.
I seriously dont know what to do anymore, I wish that my great uncles death isnt for nothing, I dont want more to die, but i just cant help but feel that without annihilation of Hamas, there will only be torment
Hi. I'm Egyptian and i agree a lot of arabs are quick to blame if they just know ur israeli without considering that all people are different and not everyone supports what is happening. I hope a two state solution can be realized soon. I'm sorry for your uncle's loss.
@@iendorseyou The issue with a two state solution is that Israel is forced to pupeteer it out of fear of a Palestinian terror group rising to power, which will take alot of Man power and money. Its a shame the UN cant do anything but throw empty words, maybe if they interviened peace could be assured. Also, thank you
I’m honestly truly sorry for your loss. I couldn’t imagine losing a family member in such a horrific way. That’s also the lives of many Palestinians living in Gaza. They’re suffering because of the blockades Israel has put on Gaza which makes an even larger breeding ground for the support of groups like Hamas. Gaza has no military, reliable government and the people have been suffering many tragic massacres committed by Israeli military in the past 17 years. Those circumstances make people susceptible for fundamentalism and extremism. I think that if the living conditions which gazans are forced to live in are lifted if the hunger, the illnesses, the restriction of movement and the lack of freedom stopped, than there would be room for peace. There are children in Gaza who were born into this open air prison and I think that Israelis are terrified that Palestinians will hurt them because they’ve done so in the past, but fail to recognise the oppression the Israeli government and military are putting Palestinians through. I sincerely hope you’ll see peace in your lifetime and Palestinians and Israelis will stop imprinting their next generations with the terror of each other, so future people will also make efforts to keep peace. Thank you for your comment though, as an outsider it’s enlightening to hear the thoughts of the general Israeli population since my feed is usually full with the extremists like the settlers in the West Bank.
Hamas exists because Israel has done awful things to Palestine.
@@TheKtwStudios And Hamas' terrorism prevented peace when it was almost achieved 20 years ago
From a perspective of an Israeli American: excellent analysis. Most of those who protest, criticize, or identify with one side or another know nothing about the conflict but have so many opinions that have nothing to do with the facts but with their own perceptions of how they see themselves.
Israeli here, came upon your video. It's so well made and so based and factual in a sea of madness. While I generally knew the things you present here, your delivery helped put so much into perspective, for here in Israel we are very frustrated with how much of the world sees us. Actual objectivity on this issue is nearly impossible, but you did it! Thank you, will certainly pay attention to your channel!
As an American I want to say I wasn’t really aware that at the time of its creation it was viewed as a sort of atonement for the sins committed against Jews. Makes me feel a little better about the legitimacy of why it exists because I had previously felt it was just a place that was created by world powers at the time and the previous settlers were kicked out.
I still hope your country will cease fire and end occupation of Palestine and somehow the two nations could come to a peaceful solution. It is terrible the war crimes that are committed there against Palestinians and I wish your people could elect new leadership that wasn’t so bloodthirsty. From my understanding and interactions with Israelis it is the government who are bloodthirsty Zionist while many of the people wish for a two state solution.
This is my perspective as an American.
@@dylancollins6578 We are all Zionists here and I'm afraid you don't understand what this term means if you think that it contradicts wishing for a peaceful solution. Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jews. Israel was not created by and fought for world powers but by Jews. Sure international legitimacy is very important for a small, young country surrounded by enemies wishing to destroy it.
I certainly hope we will NOT cease fire until Hamas is destroyed and our hostages are home. I don't know if you're aware of what happened on October 7. It was like 9\11 times 12 when you compare populations, only instead of flying a plane into a building hundreds of terrorists went from community to community, butchered, raped, burned, mutilated 1400 Israeli men, women, small children and old people. and took another 240 hostages to Gaza. there are still some 100 unidentified corpses because how terribly they were mutilated! every day we hear more stories of horror and heroism. I just saw a footage of a young Palestinian from Jerusalem that they murdered. Exactly what do you expect us to do in response? Maybe nothing? Would America stand for this? Did you call the US "bloodthirsty" for responding to 9/11? You cannot possibly tolerate a genocidal org at your borders. And yes Hamas is the GOVERMENT of Gaza (No "occupation" in Gaza since 2005).Unfortunately, because of Hamas' deliberate modus operandi it's impossible to deal with them without Gazans dying. I wish it was otherwise.
PS I hate the current Israeli government and Netanyahu is finished politicly now. It is him by the way who for years tolerated Hamas getting stronger and stronger. He will pay.
@@dylancollins6578yes it's a place created by word powers . Biden said in the 80s if there is no israel we will invent an israel to protect our intrests in the region "
@@dylancollins6578i mean both of what you said are true; it was made by world powers for giving a state to the jews who suffered in ww2, but in a settler colonialist way by kicking the native people.
@@MouhibBayounes yeah absolutely I still don’t think Israel should really exist, but at least it’s founding was at least for a semi noble cause too bad they had to kill all those Palestinians out. If it were up to me though neither nation would exist as Israelites have proven themselves to be bloodthirsty and worthy of being kicked out of every country they were ever in, and Palestinians are Muslims who believe in the most backwards religion on Earth just pick your evil.
I was talking to my wife about how much I have learned from your videos JJ. You are truly an educational and fair source for so much information. I feel truly lucky to have access to your content and perspective each week. Much appreciation from North Carolina in the US!
North Carolinians represent 😎Feel the same way
Quick reminder, JJ, just in case you didn't know about it- the JJ McCullough subreddit has kind of devolved into not much more than Redditors with a specific interest in Canadian politics bagging on your takes and calling you racist against French Canadians/Quebec citizens, and there's really not much in regards to thoughtful debate of the topics JJ makes videos on in the subreddit. I know it's Reddit, and a lot of subreddit moderation kind of went away after a lot of people left Reddit because of the APA fiasco or whatever that was, but I think that your subreddit needs mods to make sure that, at bare minimum, bad-faith critics of your beliefs and opinions aren't getting centered on a subreddit meant for people who are either fans of yours or are able and willing to debate your takes in good faith. I guess you're not necessarily responsible for what happens on your subreddit, JJ, because you don't regularly look at it, so this is probably meant more for viewers of his that are also active on Reddit and have the time, tenacity, and skills needed to be subreddit mods than JJ himself. Anyone who can moderate the JJ subreddit and make sure that it remains a place of good-faith debate of JJ's takes and even people that don't agree with JJ that are using it don't try to villainize him on it, please do so. Thanks, and good luck!
I did not make the Reddit and I have no control over it. If you have any ideas of how I can get rid of it, I am happy to hear them.
I just checked - it doesn't exist anymore. It probably got privated.
@@JJMcCulloughit was archived for good I think now
@@JJMcCullough Why don't Palestinian Jews immigrate to Chi Na❓❓
@@JJMcCullough fyi, if you want to prevent someone from making a sub reddit with your name, you can make it yourself and then make it private
Thank you for contributing commentary that looks at multiple perspectives
I’ve come back to this video a handful of times since it came out and each time I’ve regained a bit of my sanity.❤
I find it interesting that the Kurdish situation receives far less attention than the Palestinian situation.
Many situations, in which people are persecuted and killed, receive way less attention. Interestingly, when Muslims are doing the persecution, where are the protests? The Palestinian issue has a global event coordinator that is pushing this issue to the front burner for its own agenda.
It really does annoy me when people otherwise content to not pass judgement on complex geopolitics suddenly decide to have a moral outburst for either Israel or Palestine. Sympathising for the human suffering is one thing, but deciding you've cracked the millennia-old issue when before 30 minutes of googling you couldn't even recall what was happening there a century ago is hubris. Acknowledging ignorance is far too taboo, it's alright not to know and not to have an opinion.
True because most of the times its just wrong
Exactly. I have no idea what complex geopolitical things are happening there. It's on the other side of the planet from me. Not sure why people aren't comfortable saying that
Israel/Palestine is actually not complex. It's actually a really simple situation. Israel is a settler-colonial state illegally occupying Palestine and are currently massacring Palestinians as part of an ethnic cleansing and genocide campaign that stretches back 75 years and they are propped up by the US to enforce US hegemony and US interests in the Middle East.
I don't need to know how to solve the problem to know they shouldn't be killing civilians, shooting journalists, and cutting off water. "You can't tell me I'm doing it wrong if you don't know how to do it right." is such a stupid argument.
@@_xeere but you do have to know the context
I appreciate how you took a more meta-political approach to the conversation, dialogues like this are so often mislabelled as 'centrist' or some other nonsensical claim. It's always useful to remember the facts you mentioned and analyse the motives of engagement with this issue. great video
Anti Semitism also applies to Arabs, not just Jews
Yes arabs are very anti-semetic.
@@dickgoblinarabs are semitic, genius.
My ex-girlfriend is Jewish and her grandparents were Holocaust survivors (her grandmother was interviewed for the Shoah Foundation too). While we were living together it was an interesting dynamic because while she had her background which came with a very pro-Israel stance I was very much a person that really wanted a two-State solution and could never understand while Israel could never let Palestine be it's own country. We had some goal discussions too while watching the episode of Anthony Bourdain's No Reservations in which he was in Israel and pointing out all the issues that plague the region too.
Also, one thing I always think about is how much the Israeli government has intertwined the people of Israel and Jews overall as one and the same. It sounds wild, but it does feel that if you criticize and disagree with the actions and government/people of Israel that it can be portrayed as anti-Semitic when you aren't. Disagreeing/disliking/hating the actions of the government or a person in Israel does not mean that unless you do specifically for their faith.
Disagreeing with specific Israeli government policies, on any subject, is fine. Many Jews engage in this. But denying the right of Israel to exist as the state of the Jewish people is overtly anti-semitic.
Palestine cannot be let its own country because Palestine simply cannot run a country. It's been proven time and time again, considering their utter sturbbornness when it comes to peace deals. It reflects Muslims in general, stubborn fanatics, a lot are.
That criticism thing is actually very deliberate on some people's part. It not only muddies the water, as far as considering any nuance, but then puts things on an emotional plane, where rationality is lost. Some of these folks are the same ones who are calling every action in solidarity with the Palestinian people as "pro-Hamas." I even saw someone misuse the word pogrom, which I think someone would be more careful about. When I've seen serious, more charged language used by people with integrity and professionalism, they clearly define the term, reference credible sources, and explain how those things line up. Even if a person thinks some of those words fit, they shouldn't be used indiscriminately or provocatively. When people's lives are at stake, extra consideration should be taken in our discussions and framing. Humanitarian goals won't be achieved if people get belligerent. Ultimately, in this situation, I actually believe that most people on both sides want peaceful coexistence, whether that's one state or two.
@@billcoleman4258Do whites have a right to a white country? Or is it just Jews
@billcoleman4258 Does hating the USA mean I hate americans? Does acknowledging its establishment as unjust and its slaughter of the natives?
What about ISIS? Does denying its right to exist mean I hate Muslim Levantine Arabs? (because it certainly claims to represent them too, the same way Israel claims to represent the Jews).
I deny the right of any ethno-nationalist state to exist, including Israel. All states for that matter. Does that make me a misanthrope? People may have a right to self-determination, but that does not need to take the form of a state and certainly not a settler-colonial apartheid state. No, tracing lineage back to people they have unfathomably different lives from, from thousands of years ago does not give them special permission. What about the Romani? Do you think they have a right to form a state in India while displacing a chunk of the people living there already?
The vibe that JJ is conveying, or at least that I'm detecting, fits perfectly the situation between Palestine and Israel. A vibe of sadness and dispair.
I was going to heart this, but I don’t want to seem like I’m endorsing despair
@@JJMcCullough
Thanks for your optimism JJ
@@JJMcCullough Understood, of course. Thank you for replying. Love your videos.
Very fitting, the bitter irony is that much of the misery and suffering is due to so many different groups who regard the region as the 'Holy Land' and that it should only belong to them.
I’m annoyed at myself for not even knowing their were other conflicts happening in the middle-east
J.J's like "antisemitism is more of a left-wing thing now"
*kanye west naming every Jewish person he can think of and saying "fuck you" afterward*
This is probably the most balanced explanation of the differing opinions regarding this conflict I’ve seen.
I think you're right that most people come to conclusions about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict based on their own ideology that they bring into it. But I don't think that learning the history involved is bad or useless. Specific people and groups made specific decisions in the past that have setup the current situation we find ourselves watching, with impacts that hurt / helped certain groups and affected change overtime.
This is a pretty good analysis. The main thing I noticed was missing is an acknowledgement that it really matters whether people believe in Israel as a legitimate representative of Jewish people more broadly. This is fundamental to the discussion about antisemitism, so it feels like a glaring omission (it felt like the term "Zionism" was being intentionally avoided and I'm not sure why).
Also, I don't agree that understanding the conflict itself doesn't really involve history. Understanding the discourse surrounding it, particularly in the West, can be mostly independent of history, though. The only caveat I would add is that the left tends to value systemic analysis, which requires examining historical context, much more than the right does
Amazing job brother! I wish I could’ve explained my thoughts on this as coherently as you did here.
Amazing video and super informative!! 17:00 One note, the majority of Israelis Jews aren’t white, it’s not just “not white” because they are Jewish but actually are darker skinned and are not considered white in an American context having been largely exiled from Muslim countries.
The thing about that tho is that whiteness has nothing to do with the color of your skin, and never did. For a long time Irish people weren't considered white. Slavs still are kinda in a grey zone. Whiteness is much more about power structures than actual skin color. Some people say that Israeli's are white, because they're society is currently aligned with the white-supremacist far right of the West.
As an Israeli living in the south (around the Gaza Strip), I thank you for the fairness you consistently show.
You talk about the issue without "picking a side", without trying to push an ideological narrative.
And there is nothing we need in our crazy world more than people like you.
Agreed!
Whose stolen house do you live in, where was your grandfather in 1948, and what did you do in the military
@@Mariya_Fournier What kind of fucked up question is that ? Who are you ? The Gestapo ? Leave him alone, will ya ?
@@Mariya_Fournier In 48 my grandfather was still living in Tunisia, before the locals destroyed his house and forced him to emigrate.
My house in Israel was bought fairly from the (Arab) owner.
Do you want to ask something else?
@@norelfarjun3554last question...
Just started watching, and I also wonder why? Why is there a $800M/year UN program dedicated to Palestinian refugees (operating since 1949 and still hasn't solved the plight of a single refugee), which is more money than the UN invested in all other global refugees together?
It’s because of Zionists, there you go.
I love watching people online who normally view the world from a left/right political binary have to deal with an issue that they cant just pick a side on based on what party they identify with.
The true difference between leftism and liberalism has been found
Everyone views themselves as an the ideal of one part of an side or they see themselves as above the other sides. However everyone is still picking a side, including you.
@@dragonapop I pick sides on individual issues, not political party lines
I'll tell you why that happens, its because of propganda, yea propaganda never left, america just seemed to do a good job of making past versions of it look silly
to that point that it is gravely underestimated. and it just so happens that pretty much all left wing news outlets, are for LGBTQ rights and now palestine
and right wing are for christian values and especially now standing with israel.
@@TheMightySceptileI think you can both be right. From your perspective you do that. But your still picking a side and you obviously see it as the ideal side. Also people who see the world in binary will still put you in a box, and at the end of the day if you vote in the USA you put yourself in a box too (even if it does change from election to election).
As someone from Malaysia, the origin country of that Roblox Pro-Palestenian rally, I would certainly say that many of JJ's points seem to apply here.
As a former British colony and Muslim nation, many of our people would heavily sympathize with Palestine, because we seem to relate more to their struggles, to the point where groups like Hamas would be seen as freedom fighters rather than terrorists
I think the anti-Semitism part especially also plays into this. This is a country where you can openly buy books promoting anti-Jewish conspiracy theories, for Pete's sake. And while I do not think siding with Palestine is necessarily anti-Semitic, no one with this idea is going to think twice about their stance.
Right now, literally everyone I know is standing in solidarity with Palestine, mostly members of the Muslim majority, with maybe a few people who don't bother with the conflict at all. One of my siblings is even being forced to join a pro-Palestenian rally held at a school, by the school.
As someone from the Philippines (a Christian majority, but Maritime South East Asian like Malaysia), I'm not sure why not at the very least condemn Hamas, who is also said to be cause trouble within Palestine too - that's a unfiying place to start IMO, while also calling for a humane way to save as many civilians as they can.
To be fair it's kinda weird for Malaysia and Indonesia to anti-Israel rather than just being pro-Palestine seeing they aren't even Arabs and has much less stake there (makes me wonder in particular the Chinese and Indian Malaysian's PoV too).
@@zjzr08 “they Aren’t even Arabs” true but they are Muslims , which in this conflict is actually more important.
Some Arabs are pro -Israel , like Maronite Christians in Lebanon.
What’s more important is religion and politics. Non Arab Muslims are some of the most passionate pro-Palestine supporters. Malaysia , Turks , and ESPECIALLY Pakistanis….
@@sjappiyah4071 I know, but like, is there any prophetic relation in Islam too I wonder, which is odd because I read that Jews are friends of Arabs before, especially during the antisemitism of the middle ages(?) In Europe.
Isn’t Malaysia supposed to be secular, or so I’ve heard… Political ideology that is clearly heavily influenced by religion should never be in schools, especially in a nation that claims to be secular.
It just rubs me the wrong way.
@@zjzr08 If these Malaysian Muslims you speak of do not condemn Hamas, maybe that's because they're unaware of the existence of Hamas. If there are any Malaysian Muslims that side with Hamas, that's either because they're not very well-informed about Hamas, or because of identitarianism, meaning that these Malaysian Muslims you speak of tend to take sides with groups that happen to share the same religious background, irrespective or whether or not that group has committed immoral acts.
Im a 54 year old Australian and the Middle East have been at war with each other since I was a kid. It definitely wasn't front page news here. Now, everyone is passionate about it. I don't even know who to root for so I stay out of it
Well, because the western govts fund it and people of the west disagree with that. Also we live in the age of information where the victims/affected can easily record themselves and tell the world over the internet
You didn't talk about the anti-Semitism in certain parts of the pro Israel side. Many anti-Semitic people really like the idea of Israel as an ethno state. It's a lot easier to say there shouldn't be any Jewish people in western countries when there is a country where there "should be."
Exactly why Europe supports Israel. It’s like, we don’t want you in our backyard, but you’re white so here’s your very own colony to settle on and oppress, it’s our apology gift to you
Not to mention the militant groups with ties to the IDF that tried siding with n@zi Germany to help form Isreal
I was thinking this. Im Jewish and I think about how odd that is frequently.
it seemed sp dishonest teying to paint the sitiation as if somehow left is more antisemitic because its antizionist, while you have a lot of real antisemitc rightwing people in positions of power like marjorie taylor greene, leaders of rightwing parties in europe like orban or polish pis, christian fundamentalists, nazi organisations etc.
@@Nebssor is that wrong thO ? like they have their own country, sounds nice
This was a brave one JJ. Attempting to objectively analyze this conflict invites attacks from both sides.
Or support from both sides
@@JJMcCullough If anyone can pull it off you can, but it would be a first for this particular conflict!
@@stickjohnny Why don't Palestinian Jews immigrate to Chi Na❓❓
I think you are missing two important points in regards to why the Israeli-Palestine conflict creates an 'outsized' intereset, especially in the West.
1. It's a festering, reopening wound which seemingly never heals. There are always terror attacks or Israeli strikes throughout the year. It's been going on, in one way or another, at least since Zionism began in earnest and has gone through various levels of intensity ever since 1948.
2. It has a potentially huge effect on the world. Many of the natural allies of Palestines are some of the most oil rich countries in the world. The Oil Embargo in the 70s is still a somewhat traumatic event. The oil price is already very high, if the Arab World would, once again, shut off oil shipments to Europe, it would lead to a catastrophe (not only economically, but also in Re: Ukraine). So the region holds a lot of power over the rest of the West.
Bro that would tank the world economy's not just Europe's lol
Good point about Ukraine. It doesn't have to be a unilateral thing. Putin could turn this to his advantage.
Regarding point #2, you're forgetting the fact that Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Qatar all recognize and have somewhat solid economic relations with Israel.
@@gabrielyu88 Saudi Arabia does not recognise Israel, changing that has been a policy priority of the Biden administration and it seemed like they were going to get their way until the Hamas' attack wrecked negotiations. As things stands it seems doubtful Saudi Arabia will change their stance any time soon.
no one in the middle east cares, the rest of them are in just as much of a religious war as the Israelis and Palestinians, If the they were gonna raise oil price's they would have done it for Russia 2 years ago..
Nicely done and comprehensive. I completely agree that the disputed items are beyond the 'facts' in many cases and are being driven (and exacerbated) by global trends and individual positionality. One element you didn't touch on, and which is a more nuanced discussion, is the socio economic prism which really overlays many of your other elements (although not neatly), but I do believe there is a class aspect to support for both sides. What I find concerning in these trends, is that there is an inherent risk in using broad based metaphors to drive positionality, policy outcomes and resolutions, especially as you point out many of the underlying elements are actually contested by the parties and much more complicated.
Sometimes I feel like I’m a middleman between a friend who just did birthright and a friend who’s Pakistani. It’s so weird, to try and keep both of them from hating each other.
Growing up in Australia in the 1980s, I tended to hear about the Arab-Israeli conflict in terms of American foreign policy. That is, the story typically wouldn't just be "something happened in Israel", but "something happened in Israel and here's what Ronald Reagan or George Bush Sr. had to say about it".
I also tended to hear about American foreign policy in terms of the alliance between the Republican Party and evangelical Christianity. That is, the story wasn't so much "America supports Israel" as "America supports Israel because they think God told them to, and also a lot of them think the battle of Armageddon will be a nuclear war".
I didn't think it was a good idea to do things because God told you to, particularly start a nuclear war, so I was against supporting Israel as an example of that, rather than based on any knowledge of the region itself.
So you would rather support Palestinian whose religion (Islam) order them to kill every Jew in the world?
All the knowledge you need to know is "groups in this region have been killing eachother for thousands of years over religious differences, with zero sign of any change in this millenia long status quo"
Agreed. And that’s unfortunately where a lot of the pro-Israeli sentiment comes from in the US, is from evangelical Christianity…
And of course they don’t actually have the interests of Israelis at heart, but their own beliefs about “Armageddon”
And of course evangelical Christianity is very influential with setting the agenda of the US Right wing and the Republican Party, so naturally pro-Israeli sentiment becomes Republican dogma
Christianity/Judaism vs Islam, Western Values vs Middle Easter Values and Democracy vs Dictatorships
Imperialism vs freedom and emancipation
#freepalestine🇵🇸
Middle Eastern countries are good at dictatorships and humans rights violations - Maybe try embracing imperialism
@@Andreweoliver you say that while defending the country with the most human right sanctions in the UN 😒. What a stupid person
@Andreweoliver that's brainwashing in a nutshell. You're summarizing a very naive idea that's popularized in the west in order to keep you under control.
And assuming that the arab/Muslim world is full of dictators and tyrants, that does not negate the fact that a violation against any person from there is against human rights, at the same time, admitting the terrible acts of middle eastern leaders and governments does not make western leaders innocent, unless it is them trying to paint this picture of the bad and good guys for you !!!!
@@zineddinebelgaid7303 JJ deleting facts
"America is motivated by the pursuit of global peace" at 4:30 is the funniest thing I heard this week
Yeah the autist doesn’t know that america and Israel are literally working together
Yes.
I was raised by an Israeli babysitter who fled Israel to escape the religious extremism on both sides of the conflict. She was very anti Israel for the reason you mentioned that left leaning people tend to be. Mentioning the colonialism, combined with a disagreement with the conservatism that is pretty unavoidable in a religious ran state
I am a secular Canadian/American Jew with family ties to Israel. My grandfather moved to Israel after serving in the Polish resistance against the Nazis, as his village and family was massacred by them in 1939. He had no home to go back to, so he decided to start a new life in a region that readily welcomed him with open arms. If Israel did not exist, he would have had a much more difficult time trying to start a life after being displaced. His story and others like his is why I view the concept of a Jewish state as a necessary good for a people that have been persecuted and massacred for thousands of years.
Having said this, I've been recently trying to stay educated on the darker stains of Israel's past given these recent events, as I grew up with a very biased and limited view of Israel instilled in me by my conservative family.
I now know about the Nakba massacres and the Lehi and Irgun terrorist organizations that held an irrational hatred for Arabs (and for some moronic reason believed that Great Britain was a greater threat to the Jewish people than Nazi Germany). I know about the Muktar villagers in Israeli territory that were deprived of supplies and were forced to only trade with Israelis who intentionally shorted them monetarily.
I know about the charges of corruption which Israel's current Prime Minister currently faces, and how the default reaction to Hamas hostilities is to just evict more Palestinians to create room for new Israeli settlements.
There is much more that Im learning about, and it has forced me to confront very uncomfortable truths that plague and corrupt what once started as a very noble and necessary movement.
I can now understand the righteous fury which governs the people of Palestine, because they were indeed fucked over in the Zionist quest to unfuck the Jewish people.
And yet, I still can't bring myself to support the Free Palestine cause for the simple fact that I can't tell, as mentioned in this exact video, where the valid criticisms of Israel's government and general anti-colonial rhetoric ends and where the deep-seated racism many Arabs hold against Jews begins. Hamas leaders have called for global jihads against the Jewish people multiple times in the past. Some of the Free Palestine protests these past few weeks have been accompanied by phrases such as, "Gas the Jews," and "From the River to the Sea", the latter of which pretty much blurs the line between noble and genocidal depending on the interpretation. Attempted peace talks to resolve the conflict with a two-state solution have constantly been rejected by Palestinian governments in the past, who claim that the only way to achieve peace means to have Israel totally wiped off the face of the map.
I also cannot support a Free Palestine governed by Hamas, as their religious fundamentalism entails a regime that will be just as fascist, if not more than, the current Israeli government they accuse of being. It is a hypocrisy that few people on that side of the fence want to address properly and openly.
I have been broken by this whole ordeal, and I have no easy way to reconcile this internal predicament with my more vocal pro-palestinian friends, my pro-israeli friends, or even myself.
Edit: The "Muktar" villagers I referred to were actually villagers in Baqqara. "Muktar" is just a general Arab term for village leader/elder.
This gave me a more nuanced persepective on the matter than I had before, thanks
I think Jewish people should’ve always been welcomed in Palestine, there were already some jews living there, the Nakba was so unnecessary, and I understand that without the forced expulsion then it wouldn’t be a jewish state and a jewish majority anymore, but that’s not something the Palestinians should pay for, i might be delusional but without the the the tragedy of 1948 i fully believe harmony was always possible, and it still is, i will never lose hope
I’m sorry for your grandfather, I’m sure that if he went to Palestine he would have been accepted like all others were, there was no ban on Jews in Palestine.
As for arab racism, it was never as bad as what Jews had to endure in Europe, its the natural racism that exists between different groups. However, there was not real hostility until Israel decided that Palestinians have no rights, and I’m 100% positive that any Arab will be friendly to you as along as you acknowledge Israel crimes, try it.
Yapping about nothing
@@MrHemFunnot at all trying to argue with you, only one thing which is that Jewish immigration to Palestine was effectively outlawed after the white paper of 1939