I know that this isn't really a fair criticism, but I still think it is weird that Sauron could flex more influence over Saruman; an enmantled celestial, with an incredibly powerful mind, who was literally tasked by God to oppose him, than he could against Denethor, who, while he may have had some of the blood of Numenor, was still more "just a Man", when both used the Palantiri. I often liked to hope that it was, at least in part, a negative side effect of his wearing his pseudo-Ring of Power, which, if made via techniques of Sauron, like the Elven Rings, would make him more vulnerable to Sauron's manipulation, but it always seems weird that, whole he also suffered for it, the Steward of Gondor was more resilient to Sauron than the White Wizard was.
@@venkelos6996 I don't think Sauron wanted to manipulate Denethor's mind or tried to control him. Instead, Sauron merely wanted to manipulate what the palantir showed Denethor, to discourage him -- but subtly so Denethor didn't catch on.
I think Sauron merely manipulated Saruman, but Saruman was already turning to evil. Therefore, Sauron was pushing a boulder downhill. He just encouraged Saruman's dark path, he didn't set him on it. That would be my explanation as to why Sauron had more success with Saruman versus Denethor via the palantiri.
In Theory: The Voice of Saruman is Philosophy and it's grasp on Eurasia. Hermeticism as started by Hermes Trismegistus, Hermes incarnate (Sarumes). Philosophy is Wisdom (Wise-Dom-ination) the same way that Sauron's Religion is Wisdom. It was Gandalf's Knowledge of Myth(randir) and O(lore)in, whether it be for good or for evil, that defeated Philosophy and Religion.
I wouldn’t attribute wisdom to Saruman. Power and knowledge? Yes.
I know that this isn't really a fair criticism, but I still think it is weird that Sauron could flex more influence over Saruman; an enmantled celestial, with an incredibly powerful mind, who was literally tasked by God to oppose him, than he could against Denethor, who, while he may have had some of the blood of Numenor, was still more "just a Man", when both used the Palantiri. I often liked to hope that it was, at least in part, a negative side effect of his wearing his pseudo-Ring of Power, which, if made via techniques of Sauron, like the Elven Rings, would make him more vulnerable to Sauron's manipulation, but it always seems weird that, whole he also suffered for it, the Steward of Gondor was more resilient to Sauron than the White Wizard was.
@@venkelos6996 I don't think Sauron wanted to manipulate Denethor's mind or tried to control him. Instead, Sauron merely wanted to manipulate what the palantir showed Denethor, to discourage him -- but subtly so Denethor didn't catch on.
I think Sauron merely manipulated Saruman, but Saruman was already turning to evil. Therefore, Sauron was pushing a boulder downhill. He just encouraged Saruman's dark path, he didn't set him on it. That would be my explanation as to why Sauron had more success with Saruman versus Denethor via the palantiri.
I wonder if the Bene Gesserit Voice and Jedi mind tricks were inspired by Saruman. 🤔
In Theory: The Voice of Saruman is Philosophy and it's grasp on Eurasia. Hermeticism as started by Hermes Trismegistus, Hermes incarnate (Sarumes). Philosophy is Wisdom (Wise-Dom-ination) the same way that Sauron's Religion is Wisdom. It was Gandalf's Knowledge of Myth(randir) and O(lore)in, whether it be for good or for evil, that defeated Philosophy and Religion.
Did the Valar know about the fate of their Istari servants or were they merely informed by Olórin when he returned to Aman?