🎮 Get Chris' Masterclasses! BLACK FRIDAY SALE! cmonkey.co/howtomarketagame_mistakes 🔴 RELATED VIDEOS 🔴 Steam EXPERT teaches you Game Marketing for SUCCESS! ruclips.net/video/uPOSZ_jhCaw/видео.html Steam EXPERT explains How To Make a GREAT Steam page! (Indie Game Marketing) ruclips.net/video/OzYnPGnDDIk/видео.html How much MONEY my Game made (and how much it cost!) ruclips.net/video/gg3Xrv7jUtk/видео.html How to SURVIVE as a Game Dev for a DECADE! (Over $1,000,000 Revenue!) ruclips.net/video/sfD4MMFcebE/видео.html How RUclipsrs find Indie Games to play! (Maybe yours?) ruclips.net/video/57wxdbJHeng/видео.html The MOST IMPORTANT Skill to be a Successful Game Developer! ruclips.net/video/E6-FQwCECes/видео.html
A small tip: the double negative of "don't do this" with "mistake" labeled on it is a bit confusing and might have the opposite subconscious side effect. Instead of saying the mistake is "don't bother with scope, it's a mistake" (which sounds like you shouldn't bother with scope...) you can say "stretching and redefining the scope of the game is a mistake"
I would argue that #1 is not good advice. It’s your first game, you will have to learn a lot, it will be hard. So choose a type of game you enjoy. It still needs to be small, as in 3 months to 1 year. You need to accept that you may not sell much of it, it is just for fun and learn the whole process of making and releasing a game. If your game is fun and polished when you release, you already win. Then once you released that first game and you’ve got your workflow well established, you can think about making money more seriously. In short, don’t put too much pressure on yourself when making your first game but set a deadline, so you actually start working on your next game.
Oh sure, all of these are only mistakes in the context of trying to make successful games, if you're making it just for fun or just for learning then pick whatever idea you want and don't worry about marketability at all. I'm a huge fan of remaking simple games like Flappy Bird for your first games, it won't sell a single copy but it will teach you a ton.
@@CodeMonkeyUnity I'd even suggest the revolutionary idea of giving out your first game for free. Crazy, i know, but people did it all the time before app stores and Steam were invented. You were just happy that people played your (probably shitty) game.
Good information, and I always love seeing Chris on here! The work you two do is of immense benefit to the gamedev scene, and it makes me happy to see you two collaborate to do even more of it. That said, I will echo some of what's been said here in the comments - the clunky format/delivery regarding the 'mistakes' REALLY hurts this video. There isn't enough emphasis or signaling up front to audibly/visually indicate that what you're saying is the 'bad' example, which causes me to have to do some mental gymnastics to correct my understanding every time it happens. It got easier by the end, but I still had to somewhat force myself through the video because it was so dissonant. Putting that aside, the examples themselves were good, and the depth as well. Even when I thought the general point was intuitive and something I already knew, you and Chris managed to add details I hadn't considered - particularly with Chris' suggestions for playtesting and specific warnings/disclaimers regarding 'convention feedback'. Thanks again for all your hard work!
Yeah mainly I just didn't want to basically remake the exact same video we did 4 months ago where it was very straightforward and I asked Chris what to DO. So in trying to come up with a slightly different format I went with this, although yeah I agree it does require a bit of mental gymnastics, I tried to keep the "MISTAKE" visual on screen while I was talking to make it clear that what I was saying was the mistake and then Chris had the good advice.
heh it's never a mistake to do it as a hobby for fun! If you don't have sales goals or timelines then just playing around building systems can be quite fun!
99% of games AREN'T COPIED. BECAUSE 99% of games aren't original and aren't anything to be excited about. Probably has some amount of fun, but hardly distinguishable from similar games. For the 1%, don't you dare! (But you are probably part of the 99%, which is why their advice is generally true.)
first i was thinking what hugo saying is the summary of the solved problem and then after 2 0r 3 answers from chris i understant that hugo was telling the problem and chriss was correcting it😅😅 really the format confuse me alot but it was a good knowledge Thanks
I like how this guy's honest that marketing a game usually requires a lot more than just making an ad. A game is easier to market if you've made smart decisions from the very beginning conceptual stages.
Hugo was bluntly speaking here... it just was like imitating how a kid thinks when making a game, it was kind of funny when he said somethings. Hugo has great acting skills too....haha
I kinda disagree with the 4th point (stealing idea). As far as I know, Bodycam stole the idea and marketing strategy from Unrecord and sold all the copies that Unrecord could have sold. All because Unrecord posted stuff too far away from release date...
An interesting idea for a video is: how to organize the development of the game, how to map ideas, organize workflow, which programs to do this. I already looked but didn't find anything on RUclips about this.
Would love a reaction video with you and Chris to almost any of TwoStarGames's videos on Scientia Ludos - channel as he disagrees with some things Chris has to say 🎉
Oh I wasn't familiar with that channel, it looks awesome, thanks for the tip! I'll definitely watch all the videos I'm very curious to see where he disagrees with Chris because from what I know about his games he is doing exactly what Chris recommends. He made a horror game, very clear hook, made very good videos to promote it, made an excellent steam page with great marketing copy and gifs, etc.
First of all "small games" does NOT mean Space Invaders. You can make a pretty complex game in 6 months, my own last game Dinky Guardians is a Co-op Colony Management Factory Automation game and it was made in 7 months. There are plenty of very successful games made on a sub-1-year dev cycle that players love. Secondly you should make small games because your odds of success don't necessarily increase by spending longer on it. If your game does not appeal to players then it won't suddenly become more appealing if you spend 5 more years building 100 more levels. So you should make small games so you can try out different ideas and have more chances for finding success as opposed to betting 5 years of your life on a single game.
Its very very hard to make something very new and very good, every once in a while you get Balatro or Vampire Survivors but most games are similar enough with one interesting twist
@@CodeMonkeyUnity yes,i hope indies do not become like huge AA developers and maintian the innocence,creativity and passion.(thank you so much for all you do ,you are awesome and enjoy a lot the tiny stories at the end of the newsletter)
If you do nothing new and it's just an inferior copy then it won't work, but if you take something that is already successful as a base and do a new unique twist on it then yup that's an excellent strategy!
I wanted to try a different format rather than doing the exact same video I already did 4 months ago, if you prefer a more straightforward format you can go watch that one, all the knowledge there is still very much up to date ruclips.net/video/uPOSZ_jhCaw/видео.html
@@CodeMonkeyUnity I like the idea. But it felt a little off for me. Maybe show some over the top facial expressions, like you're so shocked Chris corrects and your world view is crumbled. Could be funny.
I get what you guys were going for, but the straw-man arguments really don't set up the solution very well. The advice is good, but the vast majority of amateur developers make these mistakes not by being pig-headed, but because life circumstances led to cutting corners for one reason or another (not having enough money, skill, time, opportunity, etc).
It's not about being "pig-headed", none of this is an insult on anyone, it's just about not knowing. If you're a beginner, like I was 10 years ago, then you might not ever have thought about "marketing" at all or what on earth is "market research" then when you publish yet-another-puzzle-platformer and it fails you will be very confused and finally start researching WHY the game flopped which in turn leads you to learn about marketing. That's exactly what happened to me and hopefully this video helps someone just like me before they have to suffer through that process.
@@CodeMonkeyUnity That's all fair enough. The emphasis was on the straw-man arguments being a poor fit for the solutions, which implies that someone making these mistakes are making them because of the straw-man reasons given, which are reductive arguments to the point of being pig-headed. It's hard not to make that connection. Again I get what you guys were going for and I'm not complaining about the advice (the "solution"). I just think the delivery could have been better, and the format seems to be received as slightly antagonistic for some people judging by the comments. I'm a huge fan of your work and you have helped tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people including myself. I don't think anyone questions your abilities or qualifications as a game developer and educator.
This is so boring. Make a tiny first game... and than? Give up? What is for the people who have done that? I tell you: wasting time watching the same tipps again and again...
"tiny" doesn't mean a simple Flappy Bird clone, you can make very interesting complex games in 6 months. My last game Dinky Guardians is a Factory Automation Colony Building game that I built in 7 months ruclips.net/video/7m2EJYFDgWI/видео.html But sure feel free to spend 10 years working on a single game, if your goal is just making games for fun (as opposed to trying to make a living from indie dev) then the only thing that matters is that you're enjoying yourself. There's no wrong answers if you're doing something as a hobby.
1st game - dream game #1 - success 2nd game - dream game #2 - success 3rd game - dream game #3 - success 4th game - dream game #4 - in progress But I do have a huge advantage over many devs.
Yeah they are being very reductive, which really doesn't help. Anyone making these mistakes are either 12 or shouldn't be making games. Lucky Code Monkey has cred to burn. All his other stuff is top notch so I guess we owe him a pass.
@@captainawesome2226 That's why I watch him. He is really good. My games are in a small niche of dedicated wargamers. Each of my games I carefully planned and did what others have not in the niche. Takes about 2 years to make one of my games working ~30 hours a week. I am fortunate that I wear all the hats required. I hire out what I can't do.
Oh no no, I meant Chris Zukowski! But never mind my silly comment, wife says I liken anyone to anyone :/ You look young and healthy, at most at your 30!
As others have said, the format just makes this whole thing sound pathetic, emphesized by the fact this "advice" is just the lowest hungimg fruit which has been repeated 10000 times over the years by now.
Cool. I didn't know about it and they helped me. I guess I don't matter though... They shouldn't have made this video because you've seen these tips before! 😂
@@CodeMonkeyUnity I don't want to hurt anybody. Everybody have their own style of doing things. I believe you should focus on graphics. In modern games, graphics are to be no exception. Whatever, scope management isn't ideal for indie devs. I won't disagree with that. I don't know but, these advices don't look professional to me.
Code Monkey is a great developer and person! But I absolutely disagree with his position on marketing! It's all such nonsense! And all these marketing tips have been clear to everyone for a long time! The sun is shining, the water is flowing, the wind is blowing... God, there are those videos about game marketing again... horror...
What exactly do you disagree with? You disagree that picking a good marketable idea with a good hook is important? You think yet another puzzle platformer has the same odds of success as a Factory automation game? Do you disagree that scope management is super important? Do you disagree that visuals are super important? Or playtesting?
@@CodeMonkeyUnity This is all complete crap! The game is either needed by the players or not! And no marketing strategies will help 90% of developers..... The whole analysis of "CZ" after the fact - it determines false conclusions! It's like pointing a finger at the sky...
@@arcday4281 "And no marketing strategies will help 90% of developers" I've worked in online marketing for a long time, and I've yet to see a market segment with any competition where what you just said is true.
"game is either needed by the players or not" you literally just described market research, the number one marketing thing and #1 on this video. Maybe you're confused as to what exactly "marketing" is? Picking an idea that people want to play IS marketing.
🎮 Get Chris' Masterclasses! BLACK FRIDAY SALE! cmonkey.co/howtomarketagame_mistakes
🔴 RELATED VIDEOS 🔴
Steam EXPERT teaches you Game Marketing for SUCCESS! ruclips.net/video/uPOSZ_jhCaw/видео.html
Steam EXPERT explains How To Make a GREAT Steam page! (Indie Game Marketing) ruclips.net/video/OzYnPGnDDIk/видео.html
How much MONEY my Game made (and how much it cost!) ruclips.net/video/gg3Xrv7jUtk/видео.html
How to SURVIVE as a Game Dev for a DECADE! (Over $1,000,000 Revenue!) ruclips.net/video/sfD4MMFcebE/видео.html
How RUclipsrs find Indie Games to play! (Maybe yours?) ruclips.net/video/57wxdbJHeng/видео.html
The MOST IMPORTANT Skill to be a Successful Game Developer! ruclips.net/video/E6-FQwCECes/видео.html
Codemonkey: *gives the worst advice*
Chris: AY AY AYYY
flails hands around
A small tip: the double negative of "don't do this" with "mistake" labeled on it is a bit confusing and might have the opposite subconscious side effect.
Instead of saying the mistake is "don't bother with scope, it's a mistake" (which sounds like you shouldn't bother with scope...) you can say "stretching and redefining the scope of the game is a mistake"
The format of this made me think I was making all the mistakes because I was applying the opposite lol
lol then it sounds like you're already doing great!
Choosing your game genre is like choosing a college degree, the choice matters! Great tips!
Two of my favourite game dev gurus in one video? It exceeded my already high expectations!
I would argue that #1 is not good advice. It’s your first game, you will have to learn a lot, it will be hard. So choose a type of game you enjoy. It still needs to be small, as in 3 months to 1 year. You need to accept that you may not sell much of it, it is just for fun and learn the whole process of making and releasing a game. If your game is fun and polished when you release, you already win. Then once you released that first game and you’ve got your workflow well established, you can think about making money more seriously.
In short, don’t put too much pressure on yourself when making your first game but set a deadline, so you actually start working on your next game.
Oh sure, all of these are only mistakes in the context of trying to make successful games, if you're making it just for fun or just for learning then pick whatever idea you want and don't worry about marketability at all.
I'm a huge fan of remaking simple games like Flappy Bird for your first games, it won't sell a single copy but it will teach you a ton.
@@CodeMonkeyUnity I'd even suggest the revolutionary idea of giving out your first game for free. Crazy, i know, but people did it all the time before app stores and Steam were invented. You were just happy that people played your (probably shitty) game.
Good information, and I always love seeing Chris on here! The work you two do is of immense benefit to the gamedev scene, and it makes me happy to see you two collaborate to do even more of it.
That said, I will echo some of what's been said here in the comments - the clunky format/delivery regarding the 'mistakes' REALLY hurts this video. There isn't enough emphasis or signaling up front to audibly/visually indicate that what you're saying is the 'bad' example, which causes me to have to do some mental gymnastics to correct my understanding every time it happens. It got easier by the end, but I still had to somewhat force myself through the video because it was so dissonant.
Putting that aside, the examples themselves were good, and the depth as well. Even when I thought the general point was intuitive and something I already knew, you and Chris managed to add details I hadn't considered - particularly with Chris' suggestions for playtesting and specific warnings/disclaimers regarding 'convention feedback'.
Thanks again for all your hard work!
Yeah mainly I just didn't want to basically remake the exact same video we did 4 months ago where it was very straightforward and I asked Chris what to DO.
So in trying to come up with a slightly different format I went with this, although yeah I agree it does require a bit of mental gymnastics, I tried to keep the "MISTAKE" visual on screen while I was talking to make it clear that what I was saying was the mistake and then Chris had the good advice.
The first mistake you should avoid is getting into gamedev. I've already made that mistake, but I'm too deep in gamedev hell to get out of it. :)
heh it's never a mistake to do it as a hobby for fun! If you don't have sales goals or timelines then just playing around building systems can be quite fun!
#1 mistake: quitting your job to create your "dream game"
#2 creating your "dream game" alone and with no funds
wow i need these kind of videos thank you ❤
Thanks for this video, I've made a few of these mistakes so far.
Thanks respected teacher 💚💜
99% of games AREN'T COPIED.
BECAUSE 99% of games aren't original and aren't anything to be excited about. Probably has some amount of fun, but hardly distinguishable from similar games.
For the 1%, don't you dare! (But you are probably part of the 99%, which is why their advice is generally true.)
This helps so much😅
first i was thinking what hugo saying is the summary of the solved problem and then after 2 0r 3 answers from chris i understant that hugo was telling the problem and chriss was correcting it😅😅
really the format confuse me alot but it was a good knowledge Thanks
I like how this guy's honest that marketing a game usually requires a lot more than just making an ad. A game is easier to market if you've made smart decisions from the very beginning conceptual stages.
Nothing new in there, but a good reminder that I made every single of those mistakes (except the testing , that was kinda okay)
I wish I had seen this video 2 years ago lol, but still this is great information thank you so much Codemonkey and Chris ❤
We want a netcode for entities course.
Thanks for everything.
I'm finishing up some Black Friday videos and I plan to start researching it next week!
@@CodeMonkeyUnity Thanks for your efforts. I really appreciate that
Thanks very much 🙏🙏
I bought an online survival kit on the unity asset store but I also make my own assets can't wait to add them in.
Good advice 😮
Hugo was bluntly speaking here... it just was like imitating how a kid thinks when making a game, it was kind of funny when he said somethings. Hugo has great acting skills too....haha
Chris "The Rizz" Zukowski 👑
Chrizz Zukowski
I kinda disagree with the 4th point (stealing idea). As far as I know, Bodycam stole the idea and marketing strategy from Unrecord and sold all the copies that Unrecord could have sold. All because Unrecord posted stuff too far away from release date...
Idk either you are naturally serious while being funny... or your trying the best to hold ur laugh 🤣
An interesting idea for a video is: how to organize the development of the game, how to map ideas, organize workflow, which programs to do this. I already looked but didn't find anything on RUclips about this.
Right, this would be a really useful tutorial! Nothing like that anywhere, have to figure all this on my own.
Fun fact: Subnautica had a public Trello board for its project management, and it’s still open and viewable.
The thumbnail had me thinking you look extremely different without facial hair lol
We need the same video for mobile game marketing, it will be useful.thanks.
That would be interesting, personally I know nothing about mobile marketing, not sure if Chris does
Would love a reaction video with you and Chris to almost any of TwoStarGames's videos on Scientia Ludos - channel as he disagrees with some things Chris has to say 🎉
Oh I wasn't familiar with that channel, it looks awesome, thanks for the tip! I'll definitely watch all the videos
I'm very curious to see where he disagrees with Chris because from what I know about his games he is doing exactly what Chris recommends. He made a horror game, very clear hook, made very good videos to promote it, made an excellent steam page with great marketing copy and gifs, etc.
@CodeMonkeyUnity He speaks more about virality and content creators and designing a game from start to finish to facilitate that.
@@iiropeltonen Can you elaborate on how he disagrees with things Chris says?
Whats the percentage of small games and big games that fail? I havent seen space invaders trending on steam, why should i make small games?
First of all "small games" does NOT mean Space Invaders. You can make a pretty complex game in 6 months, my own last game Dinky Guardians is a Co-op Colony Management Factory Automation game and it was made in 7 months. There are plenty of very successful games made on a sub-1-year dev cycle that players love.
Secondly you should make small games because your odds of success don't necessarily increase by spending longer on it. If your game does not appeal to players then it won't suddenly become more appealing if you spend 5 more years building 100 more levels.
So you should make small games so you can try out different ideas and have more chances for finding success as opposed to betting 5 years of your life on a single game.
The way you say what not to do is said so confidently it makes me think that's what i should do, lmao.
Thanks!
This feels like an Artindi video.😂😂
"Don't bother with scope management, just add 100 features."
Starfield most-affected.
"We have 1000 empty planets" really isn't better than a handful of excellently designed ones heh
@@CodeMonkeyUnity Rimworld did it better.
He looks like an older version of Ryan Gosling
Point one makes clear no one wants original ideas...no new genres will appear and existing ones willl inbreed into the samey goo.
Its very very hard to make something very new and very good, every once in a while you get Balatro or Vampire Survivors but most games are similar enough with one interesting twist
@@CodeMonkeyUnity yes,i hope indies do not become like huge AA developers and maintian the innocence,creativity and passion.(thank you so much for all you do ,you are awesome and enjoy a lot the tiny stories at the end of the newsletter)
Nice, I'm already doing all of them...
oh. this isn't a tips video
Just make a copy of the currently popular game (or two) from premade assets
Got it, thanks!
If you do nothing new and it's just an inferior copy then it won't work, but if you take something that is already successful as a base and do a new unique twist on it then yup that's an excellent strategy!
The format for this video is pedantic and annoying compared to the others. Very, very annoying.
Yeah this schtick doesn't work
I wanted to try a different format rather than doing the exact same video I already did 4 months ago, if you prefer a more straightforward format you can go watch that one, all the knowledge there is still very much up to date ruclips.net/video/uPOSZ_jhCaw/видео.html
@@CodeMonkeyUnity I like the idea. But it felt a little off for me. Maybe show some over the top facial expressions, like you're so shocked Chris corrects and your world view is crumbled. Could be funny.
Top content
I feel targeted 🤣
I get what you guys were going for, but the straw-man arguments really don't set up the solution very well. The advice is good, but the vast majority of amateur developers make these mistakes not by being pig-headed, but because life circumstances led to cutting corners for one reason or another (not having enough money, skill, time, opportunity, etc).
It's not about being "pig-headed", none of this is an insult on anyone, it's just about not knowing. If you're a beginner, like I was 10 years ago, then you might not ever have thought about "marketing" at all or what on earth is "market research" then when you publish yet-another-puzzle-platformer and it fails you will be very confused and finally start researching WHY the game flopped which in turn leads you to learn about marketing. That's exactly what happened to me and hopefully this video helps someone just like me before they have to suffer through that process.
@@CodeMonkeyUnity That's all fair enough. The emphasis was on the straw-man arguments being a poor fit for the solutions, which implies that someone making these mistakes are making them because of the straw-man reasons given, which are reductive arguments to the point of being pig-headed. It's hard not to make that connection.
Again I get what you guys were going for and I'm not complaining about the advice (the "solution"). I just think the delivery could have been better, and the format seems to be received as slightly antagonistic for some people judging by the comments.
I'm a huge fan of your work and you have helped tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people including myself. I don't think anyone questions your abilities or qualifications as a game developer and educator.
❤
Resume @10:00
This is so boring. Make a tiny first game... and than? Give up? What is for the people who have done that? I tell you: wasting time watching the same tipps again and again...
"tiny" doesn't mean a simple Flappy Bird clone, you can make very interesting complex games in 6 months. My last game Dinky Guardians is a Factory Automation Colony Building game that I built in 7 months ruclips.net/video/7m2EJYFDgWI/видео.html
But sure feel free to spend 10 years working on a single game, if your goal is just making games for fun (as opposed to trying to make a living from indie dev) then the only thing that matters is that you're enjoying yourself. There's no wrong answers if you're doing something as a hobby.
what are credetials for Chris ova here to call himself Steam Marketing Expert?
1st game - dream game #1 - success
2nd game - dream game #2 - success
3rd game - dream game #3 - success
4th game - dream game #4 - in progress
But I do have a huge advantage over many devs.
Like being a self aggrandizing piece of shit
Eight arms?
@@christianbrenner984 It's a mutant Kraken. Tried to join X-Force but even Deadpool turned it down.
Yeah they are being very reductive, which really doesn't help. Anyone making these mistakes are either 12 or shouldn't be making games. Lucky Code Monkey has cred to burn. All his other stuff is top notch so I guess we owe him a pass.
@@captainawesome2226 That's why I watch him. He is really good. My games are in a small niche of dedicated wargamers. Each of my games I carefully planned and did what others have not in the niche. Takes about 2 years to make one of my games working ~30 hours a week. I am fortunate that I wear all the hats required. I hire out what I can't do.
Hahahaha, when your voice is always speaking facts, now you're doing this format it really tricks my brain to think you're talking facts.
Are you @DevDuck's dad?
Oof do I look that old? Lol, I think DevDuck is in his late 20s, I'm 36 so not that far apart!
Oh no no, I meant Chris Zukowski! But never mind my silly comment, wife says I liken anyone to anyone :/
You look young and healthy, at most at your 30!
As others have said, the format just makes this whole thing sound pathetic, emphesized by the fact this "advice" is just the lowest hungimg fruit which has been repeated 10000 times over the years by now.
Cool. I didn't know about it and they helped me.
I guess I don't matter though... They shouldn't have made this video because you've seen these tips before!
😂
I won't agree with most here 😑
Like what? Which one dont you think its a mistake?
@@CodeMonkeyUnity I don't want to hurt anybody. Everybody have their own style of doing things.
I believe you should focus on graphics. In modern games, graphics are to be no exception.
Whatever, scope management isn't ideal for indie devs. I won't disagree with that.
I don't know but, these advices don't look professional to me.
Code Monkey is a great developer and person! But I absolutely disagree with his position on marketing! It's all such nonsense! And all these marketing tips have been clear to everyone for a long time! The sun is shining, the water is flowing, the wind is blowing... God, there are those videos about game marketing again... horror...
What exactly do you disagree with?
You disagree that picking a good marketable idea with a good hook is important? You think yet another puzzle platformer has the same odds of success as a Factory automation game?
Do you disagree that scope management is super important?
Do you disagree that visuals are super important? Or playtesting?
@@CodeMonkeyUnity This is all complete crap! The game is either needed by the players or not! And no marketing strategies will help 90% of developers..... The whole analysis of "CZ" after the fact - it determines false conclusions! It's like pointing a finger at the sky...
@@arcday4281 "And no marketing strategies will help 90% of developers"
I've worked in online marketing for a long time, and I've yet to see a market segment with any competition where what you just said is true.
"game is either needed by the players or not" you literally just described market research, the number one marketing thing and #1 on this video.
Maybe you're confused as to what exactly "marketing" is? Picking an idea that people want to play IS marketing.