Oreo Cookies Reduce LDL More Than Statins
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- Oreo Cookies Reduce LDL More Than Statins
In a recent study researchers found that some individuals are lean mass hyper-responders (LMHR). In these individuals ketogenic diet increases LDL levels, and taking carbs reduces LDL more than statins. Let's review this phenomenon with Dave Feldman - the person who discovered this phenotype and explore various studies that their team have conducted.
Link to the Oreo cookie paper: www.mdpi.com/2...
Dave's Bio:
Dave Feldman is a software and platform engineer, an entrepreneur, and founder of the Citizen Science Foundation. His life took a radical turn on seeing his cholesterol skyrocket after adopting a ketogenic diet and became obsessed with understanding why this is common with those who are likewise leaner and more metabolically healthy. On researching lipidology, he found the system the human body utilizes to manage cholesterol in the blood closely resembles a network, much like those he's worked on in engineering. Through a series of self experiments and partnering with formal researchers, he has since published the "Lipid Energy Model" which may explain this phenomenon. In addition to this mechanistic research, he's now spearheading a study out of UCLA that will gather advanced heart scans (CCTA) on participants with a likewise high LDL cholesterol and whether it will be associated with high risk for cardiovascular disease.
Where to find Dave:
/ realdavefeldman
/ @realdavefeldman
/ realdavefeldman
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Disclaimer:
This video is not intended to provide assessment, diagnosis, treatment, or medical advice; it also does not constitute provision of healthcare services. The content provided in this video is for informational and educational purposes only.
Please consult with a physician or healthcare professional regarding any medical or mental health related diagnosis or treatment. No information in this video should ever be considered as a substitute for advice from a healthcare professional.
We need more engineers involved in independent peer-review of medical research. They're not "captured" by the system and they're good at identifying weak scientific arguments and experimental trials.
Great recommendation.
The medical industry, medical journals, media, FDA, and CDC are corrupted by the pharmaceutical industry. Follow the money. Need legislation to force separation of funding.
100% agree. Most medical scientists are educated by pharma reps
99.9% of ALL Medical*Pharmacia are More interested in the Almighty GreenBack $$ than in Preventing Diseases!! IF they actually did PREVENTATIVE MEDICINE instead of MAINTENANCE MED, they'd ALL Go BROKE!!
Peer review was involved in it long ago. 😂..not for everyone
@@jannz1942 Never had good feelings about the term "peer review." Peers like anyone else have worked very hard to get where they are and really don't want to do or say anything that might compromise their position.
I think it is outstanding and that Dave deserves some type of medical community award for lining up his own funding for his study. It is truely an amazing and ground breaking feat!
Well he certainly wouldn't get funding from pharma or governments.
So wonderful that a non-scientist has made such a great contribution to medical science. Not only that, but he has received interest and support from an otherwise corrupt institution.
Recieving support from corrupt institutions is worrisome as that usually leads to discoveries being hidden in the future.
So it's not completely corrupt after all... repeating simple-minded cliches like parrots does not help advance any rightful cause.
@@TartempionLampion Who is "repleting simple-minded cliches like parrots"? First it was an observation that not all medical institutions are corrupt, second it was a caution of corrupt institutions. 3rd was a form of possible implementing corruption. 4th was you denying there is obvious corruption in the system and blaming those that see it for "Not helping rightful causes"
How is he not a scientist? Science is merely testing hypotheses by controlling for variables. A scientist is anyone who does science.
Dave Feldman is truly a David and Goliath story. He overcame 99% of the industrialized medical complex to expose their institutional fraud of cholesterol heart disease hypothesis and multi billion dollar statin scam.
They just proved how easily cholesterol numbers can be massively manipulated in a short period of time.
They could have used a healthy source of carbohydrates like sweet potatoes and will have the same benefit . But Oreos will bring more attention . Very well done
They could've but this gets better media attention
Getting off the low-carb no-carb ketosis diet probably saved my life. Dropped my cholesterol by over 100 pts.
FACTS ✨✨🎶🎶
I think it means ' statins ' have about as much effect on cholesterol as Oreos
@@6stringcodger450why is low cholesterol the goal? Shouldn't health be the goal? Low cholesterol may not be equal to healthy living.
My dad's cholesterol level is in the 1000. He eat mostly natural foods. At 80 he still works. It's genetic.
Wow this is very interesting. Does he feel ok, at a good weight? :)
I never pay attention to the cholesterol numbers… I’m at a healthy weight and know that I need cholesterol to build healthy hormones which control everything and are most important for longevity. I eat a high fat diet with lots of diversity, plant and animal.
Checking out my genetics and crunching the raw data really helped me - showed that I have some very odd and specific dietary requirements, and lifesaving restrictions - but I'd already noticed most of them, because I've always paid close attention to how what I eat and do makes me feel, and other anomalies 🤔
@@spacewater7 How did. you evaluate your genetics and crunch the numbers to find your diet?
Not to sound racist but what is his race
I have an apple shaped figure and was brought up on a low sugar diet. I was thin all my life and started putting on weight in my forties so went on the Atkins diet and lost 10kgs over a year. I was also diagnosed with high LDL so started on statins. I stopped taking them 15yrs later and stayed on a low carb diet for weight control. In my sixties I had an angiogram which showed no heart damage to the cardiologist’s surprise as my LDL was 10. I am now 71 and still going strong.
Amazing! Thanks for sharing this!❤️
My dad and myself were always advised to lower our cholesterol even when I was on a totally vegan diet. I was always in good shape rather athletic like my dad. I concluded at that time that the doctors had no idea what they were talking about and rejected any cholesterol medication. I found it strange that I felt super well and healthy, but they tried to medicate me. Now I am eating meat and animal fat again, and my cholesterol is the same as before when I was doing the vegan diet. I can totally relate to these findings.
Why did you move away from a totally vegan diet?
exercise raises your cholesterol but its good for you still cholesterol is just something that makes your cell membranes and your hormones but it is what you do to that cholesterol that will make it bad like consuming high amounts of ultra processed food, seed oils and refined sugar.
@@GoldenBlaisdale the people that live the longest always added the lard, butter, tallow, ghee, and we say "they live long because of their genetics" but how can it be genetics when a lot of them who do that live long and there has been studies that show that raising your cholesterol "if your metabolically healthy" gave you the highest amount of longevity so im thinking we have to eat the fat because this is something our ancestors have ate and theve been healthy, but we arent why? because of the junk so, the best diet is to consume real food.
Statins, like most pharma isn't optimal
and can be detrimental, which is even worse than not being optimal
More Detrimental than the cholesterol level!!
Synthetic drugs pushed by Rockefeller medicine.
I am a software engineer for 40 years. At 50 I had all the symptoms of comorbidity. I reviewed my diet and changed. At 62 I now have a metabolic age of 46
Congratulations! What do you eat now?
Yes, same question
What’s your lifestyle on top of what you eat?
@@MM-qp4pd cat 3 100%Cu instead of cat 5 CCA
for non techs: those are network cable types and shops want to sell us copper-clad-aluminium as much better than cat 3 cables made of 100% copper. Copper-clad-aluminium break internally if you only think about them, which is the cause of many network problems, which causes people to buy cat 6, while they only have to ensure that their cables are pure copper.
So yes, that was a joke.
I had tried no-carb in the early 2000s for my prediabetes,and my cholesterol went to over 400. My doctor knew there were people like me and after several years of no-carb and a heart attack he got me to eat carbs again and it dropped over 100 points very quickly. He knew for a certain cohort that switching back to carbs would help immediately. Same as we see here.
That's why Asians who eat rice for almost every meal didn't have serious cardio-vascular diseases till they adopted western diets.
I think the point here is that high cholesterol may not be as bad as your doctor believes it is
Hardest thing to explain to people...its a "LOW" carb diet not a "NO" carb diet...body still need some carbs to function properly and this proves it!! The extremes on either end will get ya!
@alexmack956 no profit in that theory, they could be silenced, vanquished, banned for thinking that way.
Tell that to the eskimo and he'll laugh out loud at you.Their diet consists of zero carbs and more fat than you can shake a stick at, and some of the most disease free people on the planet.There's NOT a single carb required for human kind to function properly and maintain optimal health.@@watcher2554
I just wanted to pop in and tell @Mobeen Syed what a stabilizing force you have been since your videos took off. I rely on you for information that's the truth. May
Many blessings flow🙌🏼
Big pharma told us that cholesterol is bad. Then they sell us Statins.
And they keep lowering the normal range so that more and more are diagnosed as having cholesterol problems to prescribe more statins.....it is the myth that just keeps giving!!!
Low cholesterol is connected to dementia.
Cholesterol is a chemical precursor for lots of substances we *need* for health.
IIUC, blood vessels don't just turn cholesterol into plaques for the fun of it, they do it because the vessel walls have been damaged by inflammatory processes brought on my the crap we consume. But that stuff makes beaucoups bucks for Big Food, so don't count on any serious effort to reduce citizens' consumption of it.
I've refused statins thank G_D
It's ALL about the Almighty GreenBack $$$!!!! They have absolute NO interest in Curing us cuz IF they did, they'd Go BROKE!!
Yay! Dave is doing incredible work, so happy to see him here
How ironic is this that I should come across this video after eating a whole bag of oreo cookies over the last week. My real concern now thou, is will they be banned? Will they be cocidered a threat? Will they ban milk too? They go so well together! Great research.
This is amazing. We need more people who think like this. Please apply this research to COVID. It's causing high ldl in healthy lean people. This could really be a game changer for people dealing with endothelial dysfunction after COVID or vax injury.
As the body uses LDL as part of the immune system, the body may be increasing LDL trying to mend itself.
@@GoldenBlaisdaleGREAT suggestion worth discussing!
How exciting for you as a medical educator, physician and software engineer to continue to use your mind to understand this exciting research and teach others about the mechanisms as the research unfolds! Citizen science is so very interesting and perhaps it is the only science we can trust at present. Thank you!
We?
Sorry I missed being live with you on this interview. This was great. I look forward to the next time you have Dave or Nick on live.
I am a LMHR also. Was fat and on statins for 13 or more years. Then, at age 66, I decided to try keto and tossed all processed foods and begin walking then eventually joining a gym and working with a trainer. Also ditched the statins. I lost 55 lbs in 12 months. My ldl is over 400 but Triglycerides below 60 and hdl above 110. Had a CAC score last year of 255 which is concerning but I feel it's due to years of body abuse, statin use and being borderline T2D. Never looked or felt better. Insurance won't pay for my CAC so will pay again for one next year to see if the calcium has progressed. PCP sent me to a cardiologist who stated (without any testing other than the lipid panel) that i obviously have FH (familial hypercholesterolemia) . I begged for a treadmill test (passed with flying colors!) and CAC (i had to pay for it). They prescribed a statin again but i am not taking it. Can't wait to see the results.of Dave's Citizen Science research results!
Did you get a carotid Ultrasound? If so, what was the number?
Consider vitamin 100 mcg of K2-mk7 to lower your calcium score.
Please start taking vitamin K2-MK7. That will move calcium out of the arteries and tissues and into the bone. Vitamin D3+K2, + Magnesium is therapeutic for heart health and decreases vessel calcification
@geauxp yes, but just one through Lifeline screening.L carotid normal, mild blockage in the right.
@questioneverything1776 I've been taking D3 & k2 since Covid started and I discovered that the Calcium my oncologist (breast cancer 24 yrs ago, at age 45) had me on, was probably doing me more harm than good. So many screw-ups by the medical community! And I'm an RN that trusted them all. And I take magnesium (the well absorbed type) every night before bed.
I have high cholesterol my doctor prescribed me 2 meds I ask him why 2 he said one to lower ur cholesterol and the one to protect ur liver so I told him i will not take any of the meds...
me too!!
Great chat Dr Been. I’ve been following Dave since 2017 and fall into the category of Lean Mass Hyper Responder.
How's your LDL .
Dr Been, this is my first time watching your program and I have to thank you! You asked EVERY ONE of the questions that were rolling around in my mind. I deeply appreciate your thinking.
I have very high LDL, 62 year old. The doctor put me on statins for ten years.
Started getting severe cramps and leg spasms after starting to jog, so stopped the statins.
Worried I had arterial sclerosis - so had a CT calcium scan.
Had zero arterial cholesterol blockage, zero calcium.
Five years later, no statins, high LDL and my second CT scan shows zero arterial sclerosis!, zero calcium rating.
My father's five brothers (fought in WW2, high stress, PTSD, heavy drinkers and smokers) all died of strokes or cardiac arrest - except one who was very lean.
That happened to my husband, leg cramps, muscle loss and even NPH. From Lipitor
Caused dementia in my husband and muscle wasting
You’re supposed to take CoQ10 with statins for the muscle wasting and joint pain but they don’t tell you that
@reginaford8575 witnessed many elderly in one of my hobby groups. Long-term statin use - dementia. Now seeing same with my brother. People who never question their Dr about why a med will be good or bad for them. They just get a script and take daily meds thinking a little pill will 'cure' them😮
Super interesting and important interview! Thank you Dr Been. It would be so great to check a cohort of lean hyper responders on pure lion diet carnivore. This would remove confounding factors from oxalates and other plant toxins, fiber and pre/pro/post biotics, and issues from pork, poultry, etc.
Lovely discussion!!!! Thank you Dave Feldman
Doesn't this just indicate that the LDL model is incorrect. Highly likely that original hypothesis based on a correlation not a cause
Is this more of a snapshot? I look at all cause mortality and life extension.
for quite some time it is the lipid energy model.vs the "sientifficly acepted model" but if we pretend the sience has settled... the moment u claim that u show, that u are wrong.. most of the time.. of corse 1+1 is still 2 and we have settled that debate
I am on a phone. Anyone know how Nick or Nic spells his name and what his last name is?
@@tmay1545, according to the transcript Nick's last name is Norwitz. Hope that helps.
@@darrelburnett5375
Thank you. He names himself Nicholas.
My husband and I are keto for going on 3 years. His cholesterol has gone up on keto...so high that they cannot give a count for the LOL. Total was over 500. He has lost 70 lbs, has great blood pressure, hba1c of 4.8. His doctor was terrified of the cholesterol number, so we did a CAC test. His score was 129. Now he is seeing a cardiologist. Cardiologist does not want to start statins. He thinks the score may go down when we repeat the CAC in a year. In other words, keto may actually be healing a plaque problem that was pre keto.
I have been following Dave for years! ❤
Thanks Dr Syed for cutting thru the jargon in the comments section, simplifying that Oreos work with the thin phenotype only. David’s work indicated not all is fiat in Pharma driven cholesterol/cardio treatment these days. Thank you. Dr. T
There been a study that individual with low LDL have more heart attacks then ones with high LDL and also there is studies that cholesterol is important in different functions of the body. Especially the brain plus statins has lead to dementia and alzheimer.
Would you please share the links? Thank you.
Wow, Dave! Your ability to discuss this is so spectacular! I'm going to have to find out what you do for career is! You have brought a light for more people to better understand this subject! Thank you & Dr Syed for posting this!
This is fascinating! I hope more and more research can be done to provide knowledge and help to individual patients. Medicine should never be “one size fits all” but rather individualized to meet the patients needs.
Thank you so much Drbeen for giving these two men a platform. And, also thank you for all the content that you put forward. This comes like or miracle or as a revelation to me. I fall into this possible "new phenotype." I am on statins at as my LDL is well above 300. I have tried dieting and excessive exercise to get it down, along with statins to no success. My doctor says that I'm an enigma or possibly have a genetic cause behind my conditon. I am lean, so she warns me that if I were ever to gain weight I would become diabetic. Hopefully we can find a new approach to my and others condition. Thank you.
I think an important lesson that the Oreo/Statin experiment is highlighting as well is that not all interventions that can reduce LDL is necessarily the better option. As Dave said, Oreo was chosen on purpose as it is generally agreed that refined sugars/carbs do not bring any benefit to human health. It is even damaging in chronic excess in the context of hyperinsulinaemia and the development of insulin resistance as a normal physiological response to that excess. Long-term, insulin resistance and sugar excess becomes a problem that leads to a plethora of metabolic conditions (metabolic syndrome such as high blood pressure, obesity, T2DM, cancer, autoimmune conditions, IBS/IBD etc.).
It's important to realise that the current medical intervention with regards to LDL is based on the "assumption" that LDL is "causative" in CVD/Stroke when in fact, there is no research that unequivocally demonstrate "causation" between LDL and disease but certainly establishes "association" (as with LPa as well I believe so far) which should not be completely dismissed either as he said. It's about fully understanding the mechanisms involved so we can improve intervention for the benefit of all. For example, there's much to say about the benefits of looking at hyperinsulinaemia and the Triglyceride/HDL ratio instead of LDL with regards to liver output/management of carbs and metabolic disease outcomes and prevention.
So I believe that study will also help clarify whether our current interventions may actually be more detrimental to health under various circumstances (e.g. risk vs benefits of statins and other medications). It should, at the very least prompt a review of the long held "lipid hypothesis" which has already been seriously challenged by other trials such as the Minnesota coronary experiment, the Sydney heart trial and the Women's initiative trial.
The message I also get from that study is that essentially, a high carbohydrate diet that reduces LDL (just as Oreo does) doesn't necessarily mean that it's a healthy approach long-term as a high carb diet has other health implications due how differently it affects our metabolism and hormonal response (e.g. insulin, leptin, ghrelin, glycation, endothelial damage via oxidation and inflammation, mitochondrial damage from ROS produced from excess glucose burning for ATP, lipotoxicity all potentially contributing to ceramides/diacylglycerol production from impaired mitochondrial fuel burning that can In turn down regulate the Glut4 cell receptors on top of the Randle process that is engaged when chronic high glucose compete with fatty acids for ATP production. All this can contribute to insulin resistance and mitochondrial toxicity/mitochondrial damage/impaired apoptosis/cancer. There is also the addiction factor of carbs/sugars).
I do hope that their work will also help adjust the global dietary guidelines which has been demonising saturated fat from healthy sources of food such as unprocessed animal-based food including grass fed beef, oily fish and eggs in favour of more plant-based carbohydrate heavy alternatives and processed vegetable oils. I am hopeful for a better future where unbiased science and honest research takes centre stage again instead of the system we now have that's tainted with conflict of interests, blind ideology and prestige.
Well said 😀
Curious, are you part of the Medical*Pharmacia PRACTICE??
Yes the choice of Oreos is genius. For instance, Cheerios cereal is touted as healthy, even though the glycemic index of Cheerios cereal is higher than that of table sugar. That's right, Cheerios will spike your blood sugar higher and faster than if you simply started your morning by spooning an equal weight of sugar into your mouth. But since Cheerios are considered healthy for some batshit insane reason, there would not be the same attention-getting outrage if this study showed "Cheerios are better than a statin". But no one pretends Oreos are healthy. Not the manufacturer, not anyone who touts any kind of kooky diet, not even the vegans. Everyone agrees Oreos are not good for you. And yet here they are, in a controlled study, being more beneficial than a statin.
Not to mention, no one in mainstream medicine seems to talk about milk thistle which is so useful to reverse non alcoholic fatty liver disease ( NAFLD) along with reducing sugars, and avoiding excess fruit and carbohydrates
This is a great example of individual vs "statistical" medicine.
This explains what happened to me recently! I am not lean and my Keto diet was short term. My cholesterol numbers were tested in May 2023 and December 2023.
May December
Total 326 401
LDL. 236 298
HDL. 57 63
Trigly. 157 213
Chol/HDLC ratio 5.7 6.4
Non HDL chol. 268. 338
In June, age 57, I was told to lose weight, eat a Mediterranean diet, and exercise regularly.
I did a short term strict Keto diet that I have done in the past. Very low calorie and very low carbs. 6 months later I was retested and shocked to see that I lost weight but my already high cholesterol numbers went even higher!
Statins? They have done nothing but caused heart problems for me and my family In the past. ..these drugs were attempted several times and within 2 weeks, the same thing happened with chest pain and irregular heart being diagnosed as atrial fibrillation and referred to heart docs with so many tests. We all got off the statins. Got off of them in time and heart issues disappeared an no more problems at all.
Great talk. I made an exception to watch this one. I rarely watch your videos anymore because there are just too many ads.
I've been frustrated by the skewed view of cholesterol and insulin dysregulation for a long long time. I welcome any wave makers. Maybe this will help to reveal some truths.
This video spoke to me. My lab work came back with high cholesterol, no surprise to me in my 50s and had high cholesterol my whole life, even during my time of be healthy and high intensity work outs. Family doc has recommended statins and I do not want to take statins, so will work with cardiologist to see other options in addition to working out more and eating healthier. I'm not supporting big pharma, plus as we age more activity, less fats, sugars and less stress are important for longevity.
It would be good to also measure calcium levels and vitamin k
Would be interesting to know what happened to blood glucose with the sudden introduction of 100g carbs every day
Yes, I agree. Also curious how Nick felt. When you feel bloated and like crap, I would rather have a high LDL than lower ldl and feeling sick. Maybe LDL is not the cause of heartrisk, just a correlation, no causation. I have familiar high cholestorol, over 7, last time over 10. Low carb diet because I feel miserabele on anything else. 73, 1.70 high, 65 kilo, no overweight.
@@kittykivalo8312 I think how you feel is a very important indicator of how well your body is doing. I also know that there are lots of people who seem to be doing fine with high LDL. I think there’s a lot we still don’t know about cholesterol.
While this study is interesting, the results only apply to a small section of the population.
@@bevturner2258many people feel great ..and find out they have terminal cancer, atherosclerosis etc.. "feeling good", not the best indicator of health.
I used to be part of their Facebook group, LMHR's. I am 5'7", 115 lbs, and my LDL cholesterol went up to 200 during the time I was doing keto back in 2018. The funny thing is I just had a calcium heart scan last month. The result? My score was ZERO. So, I don't think the high LDL is hurting me much. (Oh, my triglycerides were 49 and my HDL was 110. It is currently similar.)
I had years of similar BW. Attia and Dayspring among others use Apo-B to determine hazard and mine was high though my Apo(a) etc was great!
There's also soft plaque besides calcified, which wouldn't show up on a calcium scan and causes plenty of cardiovascular events.
@@LVArturs yes I have been eating only meat and fat for 8 years my LDL 445 mg/dl
Cardiologist said you will have atherosclerosis I showed him my 0 CAC
He like you tried to say oh what about soft plaque although he knew and the scan information said:
“The Computed Tomography of the coronary arteries detected no coronary calcifications. According to the current state of knowledge (O'Rourke, Circulation 2000; 102:126) a coronary atherosclerosis including unstable soft plaque is very unlikely when no calcifications are present. A significant luminal obstructive disease is also very unlikely. Most patients without coronary calcifications have angiographically normal coronary arteries.”
Because some people want to pooh pooh I said send me for a full CT Angiogram with contrast and let’s see if there is soft plaque.
I’m having it in two weeks time, if that is 0 I wonder what the next pooh pooh will be?
@@LVArturs I hear this propaganda all the time I really wonder how true it is.
My LDL 445mg/dl
8 years only meat and fat
CAC 0 the result report said:
The Computed Tomography of the coronary arteries detected no coronary calcifications. According to the current state of knowledge (O'Rourke, Circulation 2000; 102:126) a coronary atherosclerosis including unstable soft plaque is very unlikely when no calcifications are present. A significant luminal obstructive disease is also very unlikely.
In two weeks time, I’m having a full CT angiogram with contrast, because of naysayers suggesting soft plaque.
If that is zero, I wonder what the next thing will be trying to rubbish the idea ?
@GoldenBlaisdale please report back when u get your results. I am a LMHR also.
This is quite illuminating to me , my daughter has gone thru this. Very great interview. Thank you so very much
Never know what your body is going to do-I refused statins and my cholesterol dropped when I discontinued fish oil
Did they check your overall cholesterol or ldl and hdl a d triglycerides separately? I'm dying g to know.
Stopping fish oil lowered your cholesterol? Which cholesterol? There is good cholesterol and bad cholesterol. High good cholesterol is good for you. Double check on that.
cholesterol? Trigs HDL LDL - what else changed aside from fish oil? It's important you learn this stuff for your long term survival.
@@Davivd2 there is no such thing as good and bad cholesterol. That is one of the points Dave is talking about, most people have so swallowed the propaganda about good and bad that they find it difficult to undo it in their mind, throw it away.
In any case, LDL HDL, VLDL, IDL they are not cholesterol. They are Lipo proteins, the pizza boxes.
Cholesterol, wherever it is found is cholesterol C27H46O.
Agree I was told need statin I was 53 at the time, said no , told loose weight so I did 30 lb, following year improved tremendously said keep doing what you doing, went back following year weight was up only 3 lb, had not really changed my diet, my cholesterol was higher than before I lost 30 lb, but what was different I had fasted for about 18 hours before my blood was drawn. Im 56 still will NEVER TAKE A STATIN.
Wow, good man for spreading word of these important developments in human metabolism !! Thank you !!
I am a 59 year old climbing arborist, also a LMHR. I am excited for the current and future research to lead to the removal of the word “otherwise” from the LMHR description. I hypothesize that the LMHR phenotype IS a healthy metabolism. Not only healthy but optimal and that the high LDL is actually beneficial.
Thanks Drbeen. I was confused about my LDL and Apo-B with all other markers great, very fit, keto. Then I saw Dave getting into this and have followed his journey, parallel to mine. 10 years later still torn between Doctors Attia/Dayspring and others like Dave and Nick.
Me too! 65 female 5'1". 128. LDL almost 400 LDL. Started KETO. I won't take a statin because of it's connection to DEMENTIA. Insisted on the scan for calcium - and it came back 0%. My doctor is confused and at a loss and to quote, "We'll just watch it I guess.". Plaques - seem to be the world killers. My mother and grandmother had MS and dementia was my dad and his father. Interesting.
Look at the long running Naval Aviators Study out of Pensacola Florida. They have decades of info on these people and some of these aviators are the lean with high LDL phenotype. Good data that can be used in a meta study.
What else are we completely unaware of????
so many rabbit holes, and you know rabbits reproduce... ;)
@Jennifer-gr7hn I have wild rabbits in my yard. And sometimes I wonder if they take time to eat. Because it's all they do out here is multiply. Makes me jealous
59 years old here...just found out that I have that phenotype with whacky lipids...look out Oreos here I come!!
Wow, I have a friend who is very fit and thin, yet with high ldl. This is fascinating. Thanks for sharing!!!
DrBean this is a good topic to follow up on. Please include some videos outlining the basics of lipid metabolism and historical background.
Wow! More proof that diet, not just pills can change things. I dropped mine with a low fat diet, and no prescription.
It’s not just that Diet can help. The whole idea that cholesterol is bad is wrong.
A healthy diet will raise the levels back to normal healthy, not the stupid low levels that modern medical science wants us to get to.
Amazing discovery and discussion. Thank you!
I just had labs yesterday, MI in 2020 - 1 stent. took statin for a bit. yesterday chol. 297, LDL 234. I stopped my statin last summer. I know my Dr. will not be happy when she see's these # and learns statin was stopped by me. I don't care.
best part A1c was 5.4 !!!! I've had DM dx for about 20 yrs. no meds. basic regimen of keto
low carb for about 3 yrs. I haven't have A1c this low in all this time. What I put in my mouth = this outcome. I'm old - my 2 younger brothers are on insulin.
Never forget--- sugar is a DRUG. a legal DRUG.
The names are
Dave Feldmam and Nicholas Norwitz.
It was difficult to see on a phone.
I am lean and always have been. I’ve been eating low carb and my cholesterol went high. It makes no sense to me that healthier individuals show higher cholesterol. I think the diagnosis of high cholesterol is inaccurate when applying the term dangerous. I am starting to believe that the whole thing is in order to push statins. My Dr. recommended statins and I decided they were not for me and refused them. I will continue my healthy lifestyle without them.
The cholesterol system cleans the blood of lipid-like chemicals. Are you losing weight? You might be releasing more chemicals from the fats that are dissolving. To lower your cholesterol, you need to make sure that when the LDL gets to the liver, the toxins is transported via bile. So you need bile transport. Try eating more bitter foods and there is also bile salt. You can also eat foods to clean the blood like beets. Also, foods that increase testosterone have antioxidants that can bind to the toxins in your blood so the cholesterol doesn't have to pick it up. UV can also lower cholesterol so sun expose, UV light, and even tanning beds. But try to kale, light cooked. it's bitter so bile transport and I know it's a mold binder. Mold exposure causes high cholesterol, so check your environment. lower your toxins exposure. Look into detoxing with binders.
I use extended release Endur-acin, one a day with an aspirin in case I flush.
Sounds like just adding a few healthy carbs to your diet might bring those levels down
Lean exercisers die of cardiovascular events. See: Jim Fix
It struck me that this is a type of lean individual who was pre-diabetic because of a problem with fat storage in cells - just the opposite of those who are obese and have a problem with fat storage because their fat cells are stuffed to overflowing. With a lean person like this, burning glucose lessens the need to transport and burn fat, and so a lower LDL. With an obese diabetic, glucose piles up in the bloodstream. Going keto for them risks ketoacidosis, as they also have impaired fat metabolism. I would not call a lean hyperresponder completely metabolically healthy, as an overreliance on carbs could eventually lead to diabetes with age, as metabolism slows and glucose levels rise. Lipid metabolism is key in chronic diseases like heart disease and cancer, and in an acute disease like COVID.
Although I have a BMI of 29.5, I fit the description of this cohort; I used to be thin and athletic. My LDL is high, my HDL is high and my triglycerides are low. I am 71 years old. I've had the calcium test, and I am extremely low, especially for my age. I was on statins for awhile, twenty years ago, but because of side-effects, I went off. I have a deal with my cardiologist that I will go back on statins if something in my circulatory system indicates that I should. So interesting to see that I am not as much of an anomaly as I thought.
Wonderfull to see us getting space in your channel too as I find your channel useful. I am a LMHR engineer too. Been in the keto-carnivore space over ten years. Deuterium is a topic you should follow as well. A lot of politics in this genre.
I suspect that with a high HDL and low triglyceride, the predominant LDL in these individuals would be the large,buoyant LDL (harmless LDL unlikely to precipitate out into plaques) vs the small, dense LDL(harmful LDL likely to form plaque and contribute to atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease). These patients should have their elevated LDL fractionated into small,dense vs large buoyant LDL. That will likely shed light on impact to risk of atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease
YES 😊
A lot of people will run with this without thinking and start eating boxes of Oreos every day. Just like the alcoholics who turned to studies about wine and beer being good for you it becomes an excuse to drink.
When I quit dieting everything improved. I listened to my body, but I did start to use extra virgin olive oil in cooking, balsamic vinegar, more Mediterranean and Asian diet with some few Mexican food. Added dark chocolate to it - good chocolate not cheap stuff - added homemade bread from particular flour - drink no soda - but do spend a few extra bucks on Caribou coffee for my Keurig machine - occasionally treat with frozen yogurt or lemon pie - my weight dropped and mood improved. Supplements I added 5000 IU of Vit D and a good magnesium gel cap, selenium and zinc. Dave is onto something. BTW the move to get fat out of one's diet is a disaster. More studies indicate the uptick in dementia and Alzheimer's may have to do with not enough fat - or oil in your diet - your brain needs it. I have gone to totally cooking with a good extra virgin oil and using butter NOT margarine for toast etc. I do buy good salmon filet at the Asian market and more fish. I drive to Atlanta once a month to stock up on fish at the market - worth the drive. But beef is still a good choice - you do not have to give up meat just eat a bit more fish or beans even.
Body need carbs and fat . Balance is the key
I wish this was presented in a terminology that a simple person like me could understand.
You should watch some of Dave's videos, he has some with graphics to support the pizza analogy and his previous analogy of delivery trucks.
N=1.
This isn’t science.
Single Subject Design,Lack of Control Group,Short Duration,Self-Experimentation Bias…
@@ChadLieberman1 it is science. They're not trying to say they have everything figured out. They're trying to say that the accepted science doesn't explain what's going on with all of these people. They're showing that there is enough there to warrant further studies.
Sandra, your body will either use fat (from liver) for energy ..or use sugar (glycogen). In first example high LDL.. but the Oreo experiment was short term.
So, eat your veggies, keep hydrated, walk every day (exercise). ..and don’t follow any fads. 😊
It’s what they make the filling out of. They should try a second trial. One group eating the Oreo filling and the other eating the cookie part only.
Dear Doctor Been, Absolutely loved this video, I’ve bem following your YT channel with great interest, and your honesty in explaining/ sometimes debunking controversial medical issues, I find this really refreshing. I’ve been Keto for 5 years, had amazing results, of course this path I adopted was from a lot of online research which led me to be very interested in CVD. I coming to the conclusion that one cause of CVD is or modern high carb diet that causes inflammation and raises BP that starts the arterial damage. I recently started researching Dr Malcolm Kendrick’s hypothesis that says the current entrenched Lipid Heart hypothesis that currently demonizes LDL as causal is and always has been a false narrative, and that inflammation is causal.
Have you ever thought of doing an interview with Dr Malcom Kendrick? Maybe you have and I missed it? ❤
Very excited and hopeful for this new discovery.
God bless
Oreos to be classed with Ivermectin in 3, 2, 1.... 😂
Stock up ASAP ! 😅😅😅
@@mteokay1246 🍪 🍪 🍪 💊 💊 💊 😅😅😅
Eat meat and eggs. Grass fed. The whole American diet is a mess. Sugar is the worst thing for u
And yet the government subsidizes the sugar industry. The same can be said for the dairy industry. Milk fat is non-digestible and causes chronic gut inflammation .
too much meat = high uric acid = stones, gout, etc. Diversity, colorful plate, mixing it up, balance. But yes, refines, processed sugar not as in fruit
Gluten/bad carbs/highly processed foods, sugar, dyes and seed oils. = American Diet
@@Jennifer-gr7hnthis has been debunked it does not cause gout your ancestors and still many in the world eat/ate animals only.
@@Jennifer-gr7hn Sorry but you are totally incorrect in your assertion about too much meat. Dangerously incorrect in fact.
I a senior female 76.. been on keto for about a month, transitioning to Carnivore. I don’t care that much for beef, I prefer fish and chicken, but I did add a small breakfast steak to my diet. I’m 4ft 10 my weight was 134 now it’s 120. I have other health issues that I’m working thru. Will see how it goes in 90 days.
I’m eating my breakfast of 2 eggs, pork, cabbage, blueberries and banana (protein and fiber plus a sweet treat). My A1c is 5.4. CRP 0.4. Triglycerides 55.
I’d like to hear more and will come back. I’ve always been told I have high cholesterol and lipids, but now I turn 81 on 3/2 and I had some doctors who wanted me to take statins. They made by body in pain, so I stopped. I’ve been active my whole life, but now I’m about 200 lbs and I’m just under 5’11 female. Around 2019 I stopped walking outside because of crime and lost any trust in the general medical drs. I have and started reading and writing. So I listened to Dr Bean about vaccines, etc. I don’t like the idea of not being active, so I’ll hope I can get myself going!
Nice that Dave finally learned about transcytosis, after I commented about this for years. Sad that he still talks about endothelial damage.
People fail to realize that the human body is quite capable of making stuff work. I found on a diet where periodically I’d hit plateaus and nothing could start the fire - except I found that going to a food bar was all it took to jump start the weight loss again. I’m not talking about a healthy meal, it’s a very enjoyable moment.
Oreos have gone back to using lard instead of veg oils, just like their original recipe.
LDL (low-density lipoprotein) cholesterol, sometimes called “bad” cholesterol, makes up most of your body's cholesterol. High levels of LDL cholesterol raise your risk for heart disease and stroke.
I learned a bit about cholesterol and about how it's mostly involved in ' fat moving ' not plugging up your system. Then I learned about vitamin K2 which helps keep your calcium from going to the wrong places ( like your arteries )and started taking some regular.
Then I quit taking the high doses of statins they had me on.
Then after awhile I had blood work and they told me my cholesterol was high, but I didn't worry about it. I took it as ' there was a lot of cholesterol moving my fat around '
( mostly out )
This is me. I am interested in the mechanism. I reduced carb intake and my HDL and LDL went up and TRIs went down. I am a very fit 64 yr old female. CAC score zero.
Hypothesis!, LdL will go up just after dieting weight loss occurs, all those cell walls being broken down. Totally normal.
Is LDL even a good marker?. I am gonna go eat an Oreo.
Diet is more important to reduce the cholesterol level to normal along with LDL
Diet is key, but not to reduce total and LDL to normal levels, most likely to raise them to healthy levels.
But that's the thing, what is normal ? Is low LDL beneficial ? Is high LDL detrimental ? Is LDL causal at all ? Cholesterol is essential !
No need to lower your LDL
@@AKMcF I can tell you what isn’t normal. It’s the normal range on most blood tests.
Your gut feelings should tell you that if you need a drug to put your lipids into a normal range, you’re being conned.
Body doesn’t make mistakes.
It’s exactly the same with blood pressure if you need a pill to make your blood pressure normal you should know that there is more going on.
@@GoldenBlaisdale Totally agree, the normal range is arbritary, there are so many genetic, environmental, situational etc variables that cannot be estimated for an indevidual at any specific time let alone taken and applied to an entire population.
The only thing that is clear is that LDL is essential as a transporter of cholestorol and other lipids which are essential for life.
The millions of years of selection pressures which have evolved our gene's to create a robust complex homeostatic system have been boiled down to a set of numbers in order to push pharmaceutical drugs for financial gain.
The biggest 3 issues with Chloresterol is that:
1. assumption is that high chloresterol causes medical problems and is never a response to medical problems
2. Ignores that there are multiple types of chloresterol inside both HDL and LDL. Some are damaging, some healing and others neutral
3. Chloresterol is a transport vessel which helps transport "oils" in the water based blood.
Do you have a study that accounts for gender? Is one of my questions. My grandfather and my dad were lean as was I prior to menopause and cancer treatments. Getting things back together-diet and exercise, will probably show a continued elevated LDL.
Quite often there's not a gender differentiation between gender and pre and post menopausal women.
Cholesterol and vitamin D have a connection, as does low thyroid function and the thyroid seems to want carbs to function for some people. Thoughts?
Check iodine levels for low thyroid
Considering stool is partly rbc debris and as sticky as blood is it needs a lube to get through the GI
Had no idea. Is there a good info source on that?
@billytheweasel no, just a thought, being impacted or irregular bowel movements in liquid or gas causes all sorts of problems, specifically inflammation . Possible at some point in the urinary in some cases may be leaking, internally leaking urine or even having a blowout valve or pressure release for protection from leaking into the surrounding lymphatic of the urinary, a pressure blowout in the bladder unloading into large intestine urine mixing with the feces causing diarrhea as a mechanism for protection from a overfull bladder and bursting, obesity (damaged adipose tissue) may be caused by urine leaking into fat tissue and lymph out of urinary track , possible urine could be in a gaseous state before it's reexposed to the atmosphere and converts back to a liquid after expelled out of the uterus
@billytheweasel maybe someone could do a study, info is probably in the debris
I want to participate in this study - high HDL, LDL, ApoB and low triglycerides. Relatively healthy eater, mostly lean and moderately active.
When your doctor tells you need to be on a statin, if you are on keto diet or low carb, just tell him no thank you, I’ll just eat a sleeve of Oreos every day.
I’m mostly carnivore. In the best shape of my life. I don’t care at all about my cholesterol levels. My genes can take care of that as they have done for millions of years.
I have been living a low carb high fat lifestyle for over 30 years. The past 6 years of those 30yrs I have been Keto for 4yrs and carno/keto for 2yrs. I have been getting my bloods done yearly. I have always had high LDLs during this period. In the beginning I was worried as it was not popular and not much science done. Being science/biology trained I was interested in why ldls were high. Hearing this I am shocked Dave has not researched the obvious about LDLs that they are made by the body as small dense particles and when carbs and sugar are injested blood sugars go up so these SD LDLs are not used for energy therefore oxidising forming large buoyant particles that clog arteries. Ken Sakaris has a 10000 person study showing this. n1 doesn't cut it. Dave doesn't mention particle size of LDLs. On low carb high fat diets SDLDLs are high fraction which is good. A lipid subtraction should be done to define the good/bad LDLs. I am amazed Drbeen is promoting this bad science.
Rose I'm very aware about the size of the LDL being the important thing but I'm not quite sure if I understood or agree with your analysis. My understanding is large buoyant LDL is excellent, small dense LDL is bad. IN between those two there's also one not so large but not so small and also not so good. THAT IS, the smaller it is, the worst it is The largest is the best and you seem to have said the opposite so perhaps you can correct me if I misunderstood what you wrote
Oh dear yes you are correct! I did write it the wrong way. @@LadyBug1967
My question is what part of the oreo is doing the work??
Filling or cookie??
Or does it need the combination? This is interesting
😂😂. No doubt it’s the cookie not the cream! 😂😂
@Portia620 we better get these guys to delete this research before big pharma buys up nabisco and turns a cookie into a billion dollar cash cow. Like the c cough did a couple years ago
If you listen to Nick, who is the one that carried out the experiment on himself, it is nothing to do with the Oreo.
He chose Oreo, because it would be a brilliant talking point.
He says he could’ve chosen anything that would’ve raised his carbohydrate level.
I know you tried to explain by the pizza box analogy but is there anyway with a chart that you could show how the normal body does the enery fat cycle and what happens(ed) with nicks intervention?
LOL! This discovery is almost Nobel Prize worthy! (We'll see as more studies emerge.) I had a great outcome switching to a vegan diet, using the hypothesis that animal fat causes insulin resistance and that fiber absorbs recirculating cholesterol. Surprisingly, Oreos are vegan, too! Hmmm...
Vegan diet is going to make you sick
In 2018 or 2019 I read a paper where the conclusion was that people have different base levels of LDL and it was fine to have a "high-ish" LDL level if that was your base one, that you only need to worry if it goes up from your base level. Also, it said that LDL wasn't the cause of heart disease, but a marker, since the levels increased when the arteries were damaged, so it was like saying firefighters caused fires because there is a firefighter where there is a fire. The actual cause of damaged arteries were others, like taking too much sugars and things like that. To better understand if your diet was good, we needed to check the triglycerides levels. I've always have a high LDL level (in the normal range but just on the limit), same as my brothers, parents, uncles, etc., but in any case, I check it now and then. The last time I went to check my levels and talked about it to a doctor, I explained this and he told me that it was true, we're understanding better these mechanisms and as long as the triglycerides were low, I didn't have to worry too much. It turned out my triglycerides were 70 mg/dL, so he said that was totally fine.
Perhaps a discussion with Dr. Rob Lustig could shed more light on the types of LDL and impact on risk for atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. He may also shed some light on why Oreos might cause LDL to go down in someone with high HDL, low triglycerides. Please consider inviting him to discuss on your channel
This discussion of phenotypes reminds me of the ancient theory of people tending toward the four body humor types.
I am a hyperresponder and do not have amyloid plaque gratefully...I too am lean and active. I have been on Keto for 3 yrs. I had to make some adjustments as I was losing too much weight. So I fit in this category. I took myself off statins at the chagrin of my doctor. I been researching for 3 yrs and advocating for myself and continue to get good checkmarks along the way...needless to say upset at the pharmaceutical industry that approved their own statins and theory making a ton of $$$$. Needless to say, their theory was skewed. Shame on them!
Just watch first 10 minutes. Amazing results.
Is it the Caffeine in the Oreo cookies, or the cream of the cookie that reduces the body's LDL?
Dr, Been and Mr. Feldman: My LDL went up...
But my Triglycerides is now below 60, and as low as 47,
and my HDL went up to 74 to 90 from a low of below 40.
Do I not get ANY brownie points for that?
ALSO, LDL in most lab results is Calculated according to a formula.
If that is the case....
And BTW... My Omega-3 Index is more than 11%, a level that is generally not seen outside the Japanese, Scandinavian and the Inuit populations. I have achieved this with Fish Oil supplementation. (EPA being good for the endothelium)
Also, my most recent Fasting Insulin is 6, down from 11, 2 years ago.
My HOMA-IR had dropped from 2.4 two years ago to 1.3.
I believe that my Insulin receptors are more Insulin Sensitive. In another year, I hope to reduce my Fasting Insulin to
I'm 67 M obese BMI 35 on a Ketovore diet carbs
Wow...Ansel Keyes is spinning in his grave about now, due to Nick, Berry and Feldman, Cywes and many more!