Dany felt betrayed, by Sansa, John, Varys, Tyrion, Cersei, etc. Then Misandrei was murdered by Cersei too. She lost all her more important relationships. She was vengeful.
Thank you for saying that! Everyone loves Sam, but he's the catalyst for all kinds of f'd up stuff. Also, we're supposed to believe he made it through the long night while on the front lines?? Please...
@@jabr0nidave262 Ser Barristan and Jorah died, Missandei was murdered, Varys and Tyrion betrayed her, Jon she increasingly perceives as a threat... She is very alone at this point in time.
And that's why we love Sandor. He knew it was his time but he did what he could to talk Arya out of making the same mistakes he made. He thought of her like a daughter.
Actually i think he thought of her more as a younger sister is my belief, same as Sansa... in the books, there was a Clegane sister. " And there had been a sister who had died young under queer circumstances" Many believe Gregor killed her.
I can't agree. Sandor Clegane's character arc was NOT revenge, but growing as a person, realizing the damage he had done, trying to do what was right. This was just dumb.
@@baronhomer1 The city surrendered, not Cersei. Also, Cersei did so many bad things through out the show, as a viewer you are rooting for her to die a great death. You don't want innocent people, that the only thing day did was living, to die just because 🤷
@@baronhomer1 Yes the double standards when it comes to Dany vs other characters are weird. Robb, Ned, Jon, Sansa, Arya all killed enemies who surrendered and were unarmed
@@Nihilanth Nah, why don't you try not being a hypocrite. If you LIKE the vengeance Dany is wreaking onscreen, then you can't say it didn't make sense. Whatever it is you liked about it is also what Dany liked about it, given Dany's well-documented disdain for the people of KL.
And the bricks got lucky anyway, cause a few steps to the right and they would have been fine. 😅 oh lord this episode is trash on fire. So many characters/arcs assassinated by the writing team of dumb and dumber, it was indeed bloodier then the red wedding.
Why do people repeat this like it’s a cutting point lmao You could phrase it as- killed by the red keep she so desperately wanted to remain- a symbol of her arrogance and hubris. Killed by Daenerys’ wrath itself.
@@kingbobombfan yeah tell that to Avengers: infinity war, Lord of the rings, The Dark Knight. All fictional universes with logical and realistic set designs. What a dumb comment.
Yeah, but you wanted a fight, so the showrunners obliged... gave you a two-for-one special on pointless fights which solve nothing: Cleganebowl and Jaime vs Euron. How many people STILL think that the point of this PACIFIST show was to give you entertaining and consumable self-righteous violence in the final few episodes is nothing short of astounding.
You know what's sad, the whole scene with Daenerys going mad could have been one of the best things on the show if we have had more episodes to develop that. Yes there was a lot of foreshadowing of Dany coming back to power with "fire and blood" but there was never an instance where she showed hatred towards the innocent people. (everyone dany had killed there was some justification behind it) What an waste! D&D, it seems that this show was too big for your minds
Has they just followed the books… the books are setting this up. The show whitewashed Dany to an extreme to give her a hero arc so people would watch, then in the final season they tried to revive original plots from the books of her going ‘mad’ and butchered it.
Exactly! Her going mad in itself isn't unbelievable, but the writers went from point A to C without really giving point B enough time to develop C into a reasonable conclusion for her story.
' the whole scene with Daenerys going mad could have been one of the best things on the show if we have had more episodes to develop that. ' Then it wouldn't be the brutal rug pull that it was now would it? It would just be affirming the usual Hollywood tropes about what evil is like by giving them to Dany over the course of a long length of time. 'but there was never an instance where she showed hatred towards the innocent people.' What the hell are you talking about? She literally treated the people she 'freed' as her personal cattle. Herding them off into collective centers like they were refugees in their own city or something. They tell her the conditions are so bad people want to sell themselves right back into slavery, and what does she do? Nothing! She only cares about freeing slaves to the extent it brings glory to her. And let's not even get to the fact that she does NOT view the people of KL as innocent, especially after refusing to flock to their 'rightful queen.' Dany's story was fully developed. It's the audience who was in denial about her.
@@SerbAtheist making it come out of absolutely nowhere just to make it a "brutal rug pull" is dumb lazy writing for shock value because David and Dan arent capable of anything better than that, thats the exact problem "They tell her the conditions are so bad and what does she do? Nothing" Literally untrue But all of this is moot. Dude, I get it, you like the season and you want to defend it, but nothing will ever make Daenerys spending like 40 minutes methodically burning down as many innocent people as possible for literally no reason at all make sense to anyone except people who cant accept the writing completely went to shit in the later seasons
@@SerbAtheist tl;dr becoming a moustache twirling villain commiting genocide and killing half a million people because she had flaws during the series is incredibly bad written
Daenerys's mind and ideology was foreshadowed since long. It's just her fans never saw it just like Jon and Tyrion. And when they did see it (thanks Sansa & Varys), it was too late. Daenerys: One day your great city will return to the dirt as well. Hizadar: At your command? Daenerys: If need be. Hizadar: And how many people will die to make this happen? Daenerys: If it comes to that, they will have died for a good reason. Hizadar: Those men think they're dying for a good reason. Daenerys: Someone else's reason. Hizadar: So your reasons are true and theirs are false? They don't know their own minds, but you do?
Between seasons seven and eight, we got 13 episodes when it should have been 20. With an additional seven, they would've had more time to map out Daenerys' descent into madness. We don't know how long the Little Birds were trying to poison her. We don't know how many ravens Varys sent out with the truth about Jon (and that's my biggest problem with the finale).
Ye the storytelling was retarded but they prob could’ve made it work if they hadn’t rushed. Such a shame as no other series has (or likely will) make me feel how GOT did. Even now I can still go back and spend hours replaying scenes from early seasons. Ironically it’s one of the few series that should’ve gone on for longer rather than outstayed its welcome.
1) Don't know how long they were trying to poison her? The little girl literally TALKS about her repeated attempts to poison her with Varys. 2) It's obvious that Varys burned his letters upon hearing the guards approach. 3) You had around 7 season or so to map out Dany's not just madness, but cruelty, entitlement and penchant for using violence to get her way.
All the signs were there, she was never the mad queen but she was the merciless queen who could be talked down by her advisors. Events and scriptwriters have stripped her of trusted advisors and the heat of battle is upon her. The slaughter in kings Landing was neither necessary or unexpected. As recently as WW2 the populations governed by evil regimes were slaughtered in part by doctrine of total war and in part in revenge. From Dresden to Hiroshima it was difficult to find one stone upon another and a family intact. Only very few are ever judged on what they did in war, the rest have bad dreams.
This was in the cards for Dany since at the very least when she burned Mirri Maz Duur alive out of revenge. When Dany gets upset and vengeful she also gets really violent and in this case there was noone there to push her off the dragon or to convince her not to do this because she no longer trusts Tyrion's advice and she might consider Jon potential future competition so...yeah. Maybe the point is that noone should be given the power that Dany has. Dany is in essence a conquering monarch with a messiah complex who tries to gain absolute power over a continent she does not know and whose people don't know her. There is no real reason for us to root for a violent conquest of the Seven Kingdoms after the horror that was the War of the Five Kings other than the vague values that Dany espouses but never really elaborates upon in any significant detail. There are a lot of moments where the story lets Dany's actions sit with the audience and it's up to the audience to question whether what she did is righteous or not and often people tend to ignore that she locked people in vaults to starve to death, or that she fed living people to her dragons in Meereen or that she burned POWs alive. Sadly, a lot of people are distracted by the magic of the dragons. I get the power fantasy behind Dany as a character but that in itself does not exempt Dany from the rather strict standards that get applied to every other character in this story.
A FUCKING MEN. unfortunately this decision very heavily sways people’s opinions of this series. This has always been who Dany is. If enough people tell you not to do something you really want to do you’ll listen to them if you respect them. But if they’re all gone and the one person you really valued their opinion is dead…. When those bells start ringing it pisses her off.
"Wait for me outside..... You'll know when it's time" Dany and GW already made a decision; hence she doesn't really go mad she's pissed off and stewing.
this was told by Daenerys grandfather so we can't be sure it is true it so not, like not all called Targaryens mad are actually mad some of them were actually just cruel like Maegor The cruel he was cruel not mad he was sane in what he was doing same with Aegon IV he was fat selfish fool and lastly Aerys so called mad king he i think heard prophecy from his father that prince that was promise will be born from his line and he was so determined to fulfill so was scared for his life , same happen to Rhaegar he read about prophecy and he changed so ,so called madness is not real .
Everyone noticed how much she changed since season 1 and how strong she became or how she became cruel and crazed with power. Somehow no one seems to take into consideration how much she has suffered and been through since season 1. They crucified 163 CHILDREN on the way to Meereen for any traveler to see and so she crusified 163 slave masters and if that's not justice i don't know what is. When a person has been through so much, her brother was clearly abusive, he in a way sold her to the Dorthraki for their army, Drogo forced himself on her repeatedly until she decided to get in control and pleasure him only to reduce some of her pain, he threatened her child, she lost her husband and her child and so she made her dragons her entire world, she has no space for patience she cannot tolerate a sign of cruelty anymore, it makes her impulsive and angry. And its set in historical times where execution was very very normal, she fights injustice with justice and Justice has to be cruel sometimes. its funny how 1 terrible act makes people forget the numerous goods that have been done by the person. But those who have been liberated by her, those who have seen the atrocities of being under ruthless rule and chains still support her and stand with her because they can see what she did and her intentions clearly. She lost 2 of her children and her best friend to that city. She did not sacrifice or tear apart the entire world, she snapped and in rage burnt down 1 city of 1 kingdom, which would have gotten her the loyalty of SEVEN kingdoms. She did not loose her mind, she was momentarily over powered and overwhelmed by emotion, she was one of those rare people who feel emotions extremely deeply almost to extremes. When she saw slaves being tortured she liberated them and gave them the world, and when all her friends and children begin to be torn apart she burned the world down. I do not mean to say that what she did was right or necessary in real terms, but I understand why she would have felt that way then, and that its not okay to ignore all the good she has done and label her a threat owing to just 1 incident. Yes she snapped and burnt maybe a few thousands of people to the ground but she freed 8000 unsullied and 200,000 slaves in Yunkai and more in Meereen, and Aspahor. She did not loose her mind she momentarily gave in to her emotions, in a short span of time she has seen many of her loved ones die. i am pretty sure she could hear Missandei's "Dracarys" in her mind all those days and she waited a few days on account of her advisors, yet Varys tried to poison her through food..
The speed of Daenerys’ turn added to it and made it better- in response to grief her first instinct throughout the show has been shown to be fire and blood through incredible acts of violence . She’s always been counselled out of it by the people she trusts and she has lost them all one by one. She is truly alone and turns to her worst impulses and there is no one left to check them. It’s heartbreaking and it’s only character assassination if you want the story to go exactly the way you imagined it would go.
@@charlescates5703 I can understand some people thinking it’s rushed at first but the fact that she goes through so much grief so quickly is a direct factor in what she does. If she had more time to process and grieve she maybe would have done things different. Thus the tragedy of it all.
Exactly this! I’ve tried over and over trying to explain to friends it was losing the people and advisors closest to her that pushed her over into her natural disposition and they’ve all just told me to stfu hahahaha I’m probably one of the few fans who liked how the show ended
This is exactly the way i wanted it to go and it would only be character assassination if these we're still characters. Theyre not, theyre actors being used as props to rush through the story as quickly as possible
The audience and the critics reaction show it was not right or done "better" Arya killing entire 3 generations of a family and feeding a man his own sons were not incredible violence Robb hanging a young watcher who was forced and hanging him last to torture him was not incredible violence Sansa feeding an unarmed prisoner to dogs and killing a nobleman without a poroper trial was not ncredible violence I hate double standard hypocrites And I hate people who claim - you hate story only because it didnt go where you wanted. Its the laziest and most bad faith argument Ned story didnt go where we wanted, people loved it. Robb's story didnt go where people wanted. People loved it. Oberyns story didnt go where people wanted. People loved it Danys turn to villain would have been a brillaint plot if done right. It wasnt done rihght. And THAT's is what people complain about Stop being a hypcorite and making lazy arguments and adress the actual points
1. Jamie, known as "The King Slayer" (Something that cut him Inside) because he saved thousands of innocents, Now saying: "I never cared for the innocent!" 2. Dozens of Scorpions on the walls and at sea, and not one could hit Drogon! 3. The Golden company were as useful as Teets on a Bull! Died in 10 seconds of screen time! 4. The Dothraki army back in full!: Benioff after the long night episode: "That's the end of the Dothraki!" Guess Dany learned how to raise the dead from the Night King! 5. Eight seasons for Cercei and Jamie to just die under falling stones??? 6. Arya somehow surviving the city in genocide and dragon fire by running around and hiding behind stone walls, when the dragon fire was destroying everything, including stone walls! 7. Jon's season 8 dialogue: "She's mah queen!" "She's Ouh queen!" "I don't whan it!" Other than that, Brilliant writing by Dan & Dave! Just Brilliant!
"6. Arya somehow surviving the city in genocide and dragon fire by running around and hiding behind stone walls, when the dragon fire was destroying everything, including stone walls!" This was a weak point
It's funny how those of us who never liked Dany since the beginning didn't see her turn as a character assassination. We saw it as the same shit she's been doing the ENTIRE show, but because it was to "bad guys" back then, nobody cared. The only reason she never went this far in earlier seasons was lack of power and being surrounded by her advisors who constantly talked her down. This episode makes perfect sense to me.
this episode makes no sense she just wouldnt do that. in the books even more so because there was a covid lol going on and she walked amongst the people and began healing them. they rushed it just to go to star wars like if they were great writers, they just took george's work once they didnt have books, chaos
When you look back even to the first season of GoT they set up the mad queen story then season 1 watched her brother die, she killed the witch in the worst possible way even after she explained why she did what she did to Drogo, she locked Doreah in a vault at the end of season 2 yes she betrayed her but they were friends could have killed her fast in season 4 she crucified masters even if some were innocent in season 5 she fed men again could have been innocent to her dragons season 6 burned men alive season 7 burned men alive and didn’t listen to her advisors after a failed plan it just disguises her madness really well but it has always been right in front of the viewers faces
I liked Qyburn. He seemed like the funny uncle who knew a lot of cool stories. An overall nice guy as long as you don't sneak into his locked basement...
I love how Tyrion is still trying to reason with Daenerys by telling her that she "liberated" so many enslaved people. She did nothing of the sort. She built an army to take the Iron Throne. It might have seemed like she was freeing slaves but she was only really giving them the option of following her or, most likely, being captured and enslaved by the next group that came along. Also, the fact is that they would have followed her anywhere since the only life they knew was obeying their masters and she was their new master. It is fun to watch Targaryen fans hold on to hope for her redemption. Will reason swoop in and save her from herself? Tune in and find out! ;-)
She snapped. She had just lost Jorah, her second dragon and Missandei. Tyrion, Jon and Varys betrayed her. Then the final straw was Jon turning her down. The coin tossed and the insane Targaryen won out
I disagree on Varys and Jon and Tyrion as well ;Sansa was correct he has conflicted loyalties, family or Dany, Jon too chose his family and Varys point blank told her he tell if she's making a mistake, her reply and I'll burn you alive if you betray me.
53:10 The armies/people would have followed Dany if she didn't burn the city? You're forgetting about basically everything that's happened so far in the whole season. "She" saved Winterfell, and the entire world probably, but who got the acclaim? Jon. She knows that Jon's secret is out (thanks Sansa, Tyrion, and Varys) and any gratitude she'd earn for liberating the city would be short lived, at best. They'd all praise Jon and surely elevate him to the throne. THIS is how she'll ensure the safety of her throne: people being too terrified of her to disobey her.
""She" saved Winterfell, and the entire world probably, but who got the acclaim? Jon." No, Arya. Because Arya really did save everyone, in a plot twist that was almost as atrociously written as Dany's burning of Kings Landing. "She knows that Jon's secret is out (thanks Sansa, Tyrion, and Varys) and any gratitude she'd earn for liberating the city would be short lived, at best." Why would any of the smallfolk in Kings Landing give a rats *ss whether Jon or Daenerys sits the throne? They don't know either of them. This argument makes no sense whatsoever. " THIS is how she'll ensure the safety of her throne: people being too terrified of her to disobey her." Yeah, that's really extremely dumb, it's completely out of character for her, it's not justified by anything that happened the prior eight seasons of the show. Which is why it's objectively one of the worst written plotlines in any piece of fiction ever produced by humanity.
In one episode, in the course of a few hours of westeros times, Dany became THE biggest mass murderer of all time. What she did is soooo much worse then even what the mad king wanted. In one episode she betrayed EVERYTHING she stood for the entire time. Absolutly tragic.
Olena Tyrell told Dany to stop listening to Tyrion and her advisers and be a DRAGON!!!!! She did… it’s all in the show. She rolls her eyes every time Tyrion told her not to destroy kings landing. Because THIS IS WHAT SHES ALWAYS WANTED TO DO.
Anyone who says Dany was out of character with what she ended up doing hasn't been paying attention. Look at what she's just gone through: Losing Viserion, finding out Jon is the heir to the throne, being shunned by Jon, Jorah and Missandei dying, Rhaegal dying. She was under a massive amount of emotional distress. What she ended up doing, even though it was wrong, was 100% in line with her character.
Tired of people defending this nonsense. A good person doesn't turn evil on a dime because they face difficult times. There would be a notable decline of character over an extended period of time. Dany has a sense of justice and mercy throughout the series but could be brutal to her enemies when she had to be. She had a moral compass. It's just a bad setup by the writers.
I disagree with everyone who says that Danny “suddenly” turned. No, there have been so many cues and examples of her being like her father. Like the R+L=J video where most people were like, I didn’t see that. The same holds for Danny’s downfall.
Willingly or not, but Dany had soaked up Dothraki culture...remember Khal Drogo's speech? "I will kill the men in iron suits and tear down their stone houses." Sure, she's a dragon, but she is also the stallion who was aiming to mount the world.
anyone who thought dany was wonderful and benevolent this whole show was blinded by her badass moments. she had to be counseled and reasoned into EVERY SINGLE good decision she made. her automatic response, her TRUE nature, was always fire & blood. always to kill if she was disobeyed. always to slaughter those who disagreed. she was NOT meant to sit on the iron throne. she was NOT a good person just because she freed slaves. she was willing to kill anyone who didnt acknowledge her "right" to do literally anything she did. even WITH counsel she refused to compromise or work with her enemies. not even enemies, just those who disagreed. did they rush the last two seasons, especially s8? absolutely. but this was daeanerys character all along. people just refused to see it. they cheered her when she threatened again and again and again to burn people and cities to the ground and then acted SHOCKED when she did exactly that to kings landing.
It it feels like a betrayal, it’s because it’s supposed to. Martin said that grey characters are unpredictable, and that they could do a good thing on a Monday, and a horrible thing on a Tuesday.
no because, it was just so ???? like why would she burn everyone and not go straight to cersei? it would be “more understandable” if she went to cersei and ended up burning the people inside the red keep, get the throne but get rejected by everyone and then decided to burn kings landing entirely idk 🤷🏻♀️
And plus what gets me to burn your own family made infrastructure lol. They should made it like she wins and thenn she cuts misandei head off and snaps. Not oh u win nowwwwww burn your family history and innocents for hours and hours and hours. CANNOT justify just baddd writing did not sell us on it lol
'why would she burn everyone and not go straight to cersei?' Because she could. Because no one gets to tell her what to do, not anymore. Because it is a message to anyone in Westeros: obey your queen THE FIRST TIME or die!
42:00 It seems out of nowhere because they rushed through the story, she lost so many people and her dragons. Viserion, Jorah, Missandei, Rhaegal, etc. She also feels alone because people gave more credit to Jon who's actually the true heir to the throne and no one was celebrating with her after they defeated the Night King. She was always trying to do the right thing and still things weren't going her way and she was tired of doing the right thing while her enemies like Cersei were doing the wrong things and getting what they want. All these and various other things combined to push her over the edge. It would have made perfect sense if they took it slow and didn't rush through. Don't forget this is GoT, there are no good or bad people here, its much more complicated and nuanced.
They are not very clear (its season 8, you know). When Varys mentions Jon'r right to the throne during their conversation, Jon winces. Oh, he knows where the news came from.
"I've never known bells to mean surrender" - Ser Davos, before Battle of Blackwater "I hate the bells, they ring for horror" - Lord Varys Yet suddenly all of the citizens of Kings Landing know that bells = surrender lol Great reaction!
@@darth856 I was thinking more that it triggered Daenerys or something. Also just because Varis and Davos make some remarks about bells ringing during times of strife rather than times of surrender doesn't mean that it's a rule that they're never to be rung when surrendering, or that human fallibility might mean that a different approach is adopted under highly unusual circumstances. People are being really weird picking this as a sticking point, as if an offhand remark by a character is somehow gospel truth, or that people are robots who always act consistently and rationally, or that it couldn't have been the exact point that thoughtlessly ringing the bells to surrender triggered Dany because they rang when she fled King's Landing as a child and this was already set up in preceding dialogue that bells ring for horror.
@@Faerie_Kim No. Bells means a battle or a siege. Never surrender. That has been a rule for at least hundreds of years, probably longer on this continent. People dont just randomly make a new meaning up. Besides, Daenerys didnt even live one minute in Kings Landing. She was born on Dragonstone and her brother and her were brought to Essos from there. She was an infant when that happened, she has absolutely no recollection of anything about Westeros aside from the stories Viserys told her.
I remember the red priestess saying that Dany would remake the world & would purify nonbelievers by the 1000s burning their sins & flesh away. So I always expected she'd kill 1000s of people by the end but not like this 💀
If you just edit out the bells ringing it makes vastly more sense. I think they wanted it to be as unambiguous as possible though. There are people who defend the decision and point to specific moments in Dany's characterization to support it. The problem is that I think Emilia Clark wasn't given good direction and she's been playing a messianic type figure until these last few episodes where they told her what she's going to do. In reality she's supposed to be a narcissistic type figure and be dropping hints that if she isn't loved, she'll choose to be feared. The issue is that the moments where that happens in the show, Emilia is playing the character differently because she wasn't given good direction. It's only *now* you see her being berserk, angry and so on. She should have lost her cool at a bunch of other occasions too. (When she killed her brother, when she killed mari magdur, when she executed the slavers, when she executed the slaves, when she killed the khals, and so on). Emilia plays those moments like a messianic figure exacting justice and is fairly detached during it. It's just something she "Has to do". Here, it becomes extremely apparent Dany doesn't have to do this, and so the acting comes across now that she understands the character. (She wasn't told until they started shooting what was going to happen. It's absolutely not her fault.). I bet you they didn't give her direction with any of this in mind. They didn't correct her and tell her to be playing the character a certain way in seasons 1-7 for this ending to make sense. In effect, she has been playing a completely different person up until about 2 episodes ago. I still love the show, but this is one of the most controversial things in television history. I think they should have not rung the bells. Then she does this. Then she can still play off the calm and detached type of Dany who will insist she's "Doing what she has to do.", which is how she has been portraying the character. But the directors apparently don't understand this and didn't understand why everyone was annoyed with this decision, and will point to these moments in her history as evidence she's always been this way. Because they legit look at Dany being angry and working herself up to destroy a city and they see that acting and think "yes, this is following the script.", and they see that as the same person who killed mari magdur, killed her brother, and so on. Because they don't understand acting and how it changes the portrayal of what's going on, they only see "Thing A happens and Thing B happens and Thing C happens.". Imagine if during all of Dany's moments where she's violent she was behaving like she did here and how predictable this would have been. Either that, or you don't include the bells and have her just destroy the city and calmly insist to people she "Had to do it in order to break the wheel" and have everyone slowly realize she's insane.
@@charlescates5703 Because the writers failed at their Job. When Ned died there was no public outrage because it made sense. When the red wedding happened there was no public outrage because it made sense. When Daenerys burned a million people that had already surrendered to her because she went "mad", it didn't make any sense hence the public backlash. As a writer, when a lot of people are this confused by your script, make no mistake, it is your fault. You messed up somewhere. When GRRM writes this storyline, notice that there will be no backlash because the character motivations will be consistent, the setup will be properly paced and the plot will make sense.
Sorry to say, but George had his imprint on all the main characters ending, in time for the last 2 episodes, after his work was awol for two & half seasons. The ending was firmly placed in cement by George before the pilot episode even aired. The foreshadowing of the dragon over king's landing, the Mad King going mad & saying "Burn them all." The Mad King wasn't mad when he became king, too many choose to ignore that. Too many things gone wrong in a short time, enough to turn Dani mad. Like you said, she really had one person in the end that was her true blue. Enough backlash to the ending made George reverse course of his ending to make a new one, after he worked on his book for 12 years, a book that he never released. In the end, you fell in the same trap as many, thinking you really were the storyteller. "I thought they should of done this & should of done that." Only one story teller of the books, who told the screenplay writers on how the ending should be for all the main characters. This all was revealed backstage by D&D & the cast at the Emmy Awards after receiving the Best Drama Award for season 8, an award they won for the 4th consecutive year. When asked if they changed the ending as they went along towards the end, they simply said that they followed what George had laid out for them from the every start.
People insisting that Dani acted out of character are in denial. She commits an atrocity in almost every season, but the audience finds it cool as long as it is against someone they don't like.
@@rl1171 and she constantly talked about what she wanted to do in kings landing and all of her advisors were against that. She’s always wanted to rule in fear
I think when she killed that guy who killed the 'master' or 'son of harpy' that Danearys killed in front of everyone, after Sir Berrestan died was a turning point for her. Then when she felt alone at winterfell after the battle knowing what she knew about Jon and how they all were rallied around him. Missandei was the cherry on top of her switch to no mercy. Just thought
So why wasnt Robb killing an innocent watcher who was forced to watch, Sansa feeding an unarmed prisoner to dogs, Arya killing multiple generations of a family and feeding a man his own sons, etc etc not turning points for them?
@@harish123az First of all.. I love Dany. my thoughts on your question is Dany started out so innocent and grew to be an amazing leader, a hero against the white walkers a few times. Sansa, after what Ramsey did to her, as I have been through myself....I'd have done the same thing. It almost sounds as if you sympathize with Ramsey...(scary thought).Arya started off episode one not wanting to be a Lady, but a warrior....she has always known who she is. Frey killed or had others kill so many of her Family. She saw the wolf's head on Robbs body. It goes back to the story in the Lore of 'Rat & Cheese" where the similar happened. Inviting people in your home then killing them. I forget which Seasons Lore it's in, but it's in there. Again, I love Dany, I was speaking as a witness as to the decline of her mental well being that led to her burning tons of innocent people, children! It was sad to see her at dragon stone after not eating etc. I felt bad for her. I wish she had just gone straight to the red keep and not done what she did. But I believe her mental health 'snapped'. It was sad to see that happen to her
@@mamakat114 My point was - we should not not judge different people using different standards, and Ramsay was an example to show something cruelty and revenge is justified Dany will snap in the books, the main complaint is that it could be handled and shown much better than we got in the rushed show episodes
@@harish123az cool. I wasn't judging her any way. I was sympathizing with her mental health decline. Yes, way too rushed in the rushed episodes. It's all 👍
Dany was always like this, she just charmed us. That’s the whole point of her character, to show you how easily people fall for the Stalins, Hitlers etc. In season one Drogo is talking about destroying Kings Landing, raping women, Dany is looking on with satisfaction. That’s what she wanted all along. She burns people alive, crucifies them… some deserving some not but all for getting in her way not for moral reasons. She’s an instrument of rage and vengeance not justice. The Tarleys? They don’t want to fall to their knees and worship some foreign invader they don’t even know, so burn them alive? How has she ever been any better than Melisandre? That’s who she is. We as the audience fell in love with a psychopath and this episode is our punishment.
'We as the audience fell in love with a psychopath and this episode is our punishment.' Bingo! Absolutely spot on. Furthermore, now you know how it happens in real life. People in western countries always have this smarmy holier-than-thou attitude when it comes to how come people in poorer and less developed parts of the world didn't recognize a budding dictator or a tyrant. This is how. When you're poor and oppressed enough, anyone who seems like they're battling the forces of evil to your benefit will be someone you desperately latch on to, ignoring their red flags until it's far far far too late.
They ruined his character in the last season imo. He had no right or reason to kill Dany, she hadn't done anything wrong yet. She was mourning. And he does all of this instead of talking to her (like he had promised) because he thought Jon should be king because.... he had a dick. Wow, slow clap.
@@4Tom4lepus4 and since when does varys care about rightful kings and throne successions? It was always that he didn't care who sat the iron throne as long as the common people were not harmed. It feels like they created the character for season 8 without knowing the previous seasons...
@@felixhamm3715 if that's the concept then it could have helped Dany for better good if applied in her case. Majorly it only suggests he sided the king to let the king have the throne!
So Arya got to kill the Night King whom she never saw or fought but did't get to kill cersei who was on her list since season 1. And how they assassinated the whole arc of Jon Snow being Aegon Targaryan. He did not get a fight with the Night King which they had been foreshadowing since season Hardhome. It did't even matter at the end what his name was.
After this episode I was in complete shock. I grieved for those innocent people and Sandor for a full week. I was a mess (yeah, I can be a bit too sensitive sometimes, oops) I expected Dany to go crazy since season 2 but I agree, there should have been more episodes, more time, to see her slowly go mad. That process would have actually been interesting to see. Right after this episode all I wanted was for Dany to die a slow and painful death. Not necessarily cause I wanted to see her suffer, but there have been characters with pretty nasty deaths who didn't do what she did. (Might just be my intense emotions talking though).
There’s been 8 seasons of the show. They’ve shown how she’s feels about taking her fathers crown since SEASON 1. Viserys has been in her ear way before we meant them in season 1.
@@avonbarksdale91 There's been 8 seasons in the show, and not one of them ever contained a single Daenerys scene where it was set up or implied that she might some day randomly kill civilians with no military necessity whatsoever "because she went mad". It's one of the worst written plotlines in any piece of fiction ever produced by human civilization.
@@frankvandorp2059 ''not one of them ever contained a single Daenerys scene where it was set up or implied that she might some day randomly kill civilians with no military necessity whatsoever "because she went mad"'' Then you've been watching the show with your eyes closed: Drogo:''I will kill the men in iron suits and tear down their stone houses. I will rape their women, take their children as slaves."' Dany becomes enamoured with her husband. 'Your enemies will die screaming' S1 'When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground. Turn us away and we will burn you first.' S2 Burning Astapor to the ground (not like there were women and children in there or anything) S3 'They can live in my new world or they can die in their old one.' S4 Dany as she burns an innocent man alive and feeds him to her dragons with unmistakable relish: 'Maybe all of you are innocent, maybe none. I'll let my dragons decide' 'If I give everyone what they deserve, I’ll have no one left to rule.' Dany to Hizdahr: "One day, your great city will return to the dirt," 'At your command?' 'If need be.' S5 Promising the Dothraki they will kill men in iron suits and tear their cities down. Dany to Tyrion: "I will crucify the Masters. I will set their fleets afire, kill every last one of their soldiers, and return their cities to the dirt, you don't approve?' Tyrion barely talks her out of it, only because of the ships they can use. S6 ... and this is before she even reaches Westeros, where a whole new host of red flags can be added to her psyche.
@@SerbAtheist "Dany becomes enamoured with her husband." The very next episode Dany goes against everyone else and starts helping innocent people as soon as one village gets slaughtered. Quite a bit more impactful than Dany simply looking happy when someone else says something. "Your enemies will die screaming' S1" Those are people she thinks are guilty, therefore no innocent people. About the burning cities examples, those are all in reference to attacking an enemy city in open war against her, where enemies are actively fighting back from that city. Not a city that has already surrendered full of innocents. "They can live in my new world or they can die in their old one." Again, this is a reference to the slavers she rules over, and they will die only if they directly oppose her. "Dany as she burns an innocent man alive and feeds him to her dragons with unmistakable relish" This doesn't happen in the books of course and is a departure from her character, but again these are members of the noble elites who she sees as guilty of both slavery and rebellion. She isn't burning innocent slaves for the crimes of the masters in Meereen. "I will crucify the Masters. I will set their fleets afire, kill every last one of their soldiers, and return their cities to the dirt, you don't approve?" Again, this is her talking about enemies in a war, not defenseless innocents in times of peace. "and this is before she even reaches Westeros, where a whole new host of red flags can be added to her psyche." And none of your examples actually support your argument.
@@frankvandorp2059 'The very next episode Dany goes against everyone else and starts helping innocent people as soon as one village gets slaughtered.' Oh, yes, sure she beamed upon hearing of cities burned, people slaughtered and women raped... but she took pity on a few remaining survivors of a horrific massacre, so it's all OK! Not that she had anything against the Dothraki continuing these massacres, mind you, but just that upon slaughtering villages they should simply make sure to marry all the surviving women before raping them. 'Those are people she thinks are guilty, therefore no innocent people.' Right, she merely wants to kill the people she THINKS are guilty! How relieved I am! That's totally not what tyrants do! 'About the burning cities examples, those are all in reference to attacking an enemy city in open war against her [..]. Not a city that has already surrendered full of innocents.' Citation needed. That's you filling in the blanks for good 'ole Dany. 'Turn me away and I shall burn you first.' Remember those words, bub? No need to be in open war against Miss Bloodthirsty. Just refuse to let her in with her dragons. 'these are members of the noble elites who she sees as guilty of both slavery and rebellion.' Right, she SEES them as guilty and therefore they are guilty! Never mind that it later turns out it was not them but insurgents from Astapor and Yunkai. Mind you, apart from its cruelty, it was also an act of breathtaking stupidity. Hizdahr and his men were her quislings! Were Dany ever to fall or leave Mereen, it would be their heads on a pike. 'Again, this is a reference to the slavers she rules over, and they will die only if they directly oppose her.' Ah, how comforting to be in such a dictatorship... just don't oppose Dany and you'll live! Except, of course, if she has a hunch that you're guilty of something in which case welcome the sweet release of fiery death. 'And none of your examples actually support your argument.' Your 'defense' of Dany has been far more damning than any attack I've ever made.
And so we come to my second favorite episode of the show, the first being the final episode of course. I know that while the mythology-obsessed nerds expressed more ire at the Long Night, it was the casual fans, such as IC, that had the biggest problem with this episode. As IC said, the expectation was for Dany to win and for Cersei to be killed in such a spectacular way. The hidden assumption was 'Sure, GOT put us through a ringer, but at least here in the end we will get the glorious pay off where the 'forces of good' are completely triumphant and everything is set right.' Alas, people fatally misjudged what kind of a show Game of Thrones was about. That Dany would put the city to torch was painfully obvious in retrospect, every bit as Ned losing his head and the Red Wedding. But while the people could forgive the previous stuff as bumps on the path to the final destination, they were not that forgiving when it came to the final destination itself. It was just that Dany snapped that was unforgivable, but the fact that very notion of what is 'good' and what is 'bad' was completely turned on it's head. Extended harrowing shots of civilians being burned and women being raped and killed really drive the point home. You don't have the 'good guys' that you identify with suddenly rampage and start committing war crimes, even though this is pretty much what happens in war. It is very difficult to be like Jon and keep your emotions in check when a hated enemy that messed up your life for ages is suddenly on their backs. This ALONE is what would make in my book Game of Thrones to be the best series in history. I just hope that many of the audience after their initial anger has subsided can learn to appreciate it.
This was genuinely a funny read It wasnt the "casual fans", it was anyone with a fully functioning brain who expected a bit of subtlety and nuance and, not "HA YOU IDIOT YOU THOUGHT TH CHARACTER WAS GOOD BUT NO SHE IS WESTEROSI HITLER" If you like the episode, that's good for you, but it's really not that deep. It's not that people just cant accept Daenerys going "mad", it's that's its cartoonishly stupidly executed by people who wanted to move on and make star wars movies to get disney money, and especially to anyone who has read the source material it is laughably bad
@Lee Ara Ah... reasons... that's a funny word. Do you care to tell me, what is the reason for this show? What was the point? What was the message? Was the message of this show (and books) that violence is awesome and revenge is satisfying and fulfilling? Was the message of the show that a good ruler needs to have the right kind of heritage? Was the message of this show that identifying with characters is the most important part of a story? Was the message of this story that evil people are easily identifiable and that good people are always moral and just or that you can even categorize people unequivocally into good and evil people? Dany's arc was developed for the entire show. You just didn't see it.
@@SerbAtheist ah yes, nothing says "writing style of well known romantic George Martin" like "Ha you idiots, now Daenerys is a genocidal fascist and she is going to kill half a million people for literally no reason and you should have seen it coming because she killed slavers and enemies at war and she was impulsive" Obviously something similar will happen in the books, the difference is in the books, there is good material to set it up. Material the showrunners decided to cut out for some god forsaken reason. It's genuinely impressive how much they butchered Tyrion
"Danaerys...I never expected her to do something to this extent." Really? You couldn't fathom something like this happening from the build up of season one? GRRM doesn't write about princesses and fairy tales and heroes... (he does but) he writes about humans that we know in our world and the theme he touched on with Dany through the whole thing is breaking the "legacy" of her father...and at the end she didn't. Executed poorly by the show, but from a pure plot perspective...you had to of seen this coming a little bit.
@@queenxx1690 I did not, but I bet she does. And I also bet GRRM was leading her down a similar path, but you know...on a word document where you don't spend a zillion dollars and thousands of man hours. They just ran out of time and rushed it all in the end. I think Dany was always headed down the "Mad Queen" path from her conception as a character. This was just an execution problem by the show. It happened so fast. It was 72 hours of television up to this point. 69.5hrs were dedicated to building Dany up as the hero/savior you mentioned. Her turn seemingly happened in 1.5. I'll use a film reference as an example. 'Joker'. Very well balanced villain arc that had proper pacing and storytelling. We are shocked at his turn, but it made perfect sense (in a sick sort of way of course). With Dany it was just too fast.
@@NickSquirt i think she will be more like tragic hero than villan because we have toooo many villains already and only few heros I don't know if you knew this but Tyrion was suppose to be villan in tue books after he murder his father and Shae, Jamie told him truth that he was hiding from him about his first wife (she is not in show) he got angry and told ge is going to murder then all and if they see him as monster he will be one so he is villain btw Grrm told he is and in book Daenerys in warned from few character Tyrion too so villain being warned about other villain sound weird
The way I would have fixed this series is by making Daenerys attack king's landing earlier. The Night King was supposed to be the Big Bad and finale of this series. I'd make Dany attack Kings Landing way back in season 7. Due to the wildfire stored all across the city the whole city gets destroyed by accident, including Cersei . Everyone then hates Dany, and it becomes a civil war against this new Dragon Queen. She becomes a tyrant naturally and organically, rather than how they did it here. Then at some point she becomes aware of the whitewalker threat, and helps the North, which forms an alliance with them. Dany takes the throne, respected and feared but not loved, ruling over a divided kingdom, becoming the tyrant she never wanted to be. She gets what she wants, at a cost. Far far better ending to her character. Instead she just goes mental while Cersei sips wine for 2 seasons.
I’m gonna say this, as someone who supported Daenerys even during this mess - this was /definitely/ not a big switch to flip for her, and I was not AT ALL surprised she snapped. When this first hit, I remember the rage and betrayal a lot of people felt over it- there is a video out there still, I’m sure, that cuts together right as she’s looking at the red keep EVERY INSTANCE in her life that led to that “you know what? Actually, yeah. No mercy.” Drogo’s illness. Rhaego being stillborn and used to bring Drogo back the way he was. Her having to smother him to death. Betrayed by her handmaiden and having her children kidnapped and kept from her. Choosing to kill Kraznys and take her Unsullied was the first time she tasted control. Real control. It felt good. And I will say, I think that point specifically started to display that dichotomy that she has. She’s compassionate and kind, but ruthless in her executions of what she deems just. It didn’t surprise me at all, after everything she lost trying to do “the right thing”, why do it anymore? Had she taken her dragons to King’s Landing on day 1, parked them at the dragon pit and said “you have forty five minutes to vacate the red keep or it’s going to be GONE” this wouldn’t have happened. None of this lol Goddddddddd it was tragic but DAMN was it near-unavoidable and unfortunately sort of clearly very much a probability
Lol and like not to blow up my own shit- but as someone who does deal with a bit of mental illness and emotional instability myself- I see myself a LOT in Daenerys. I really do care about people and I love to help them, and I actively hate those who cause other people harm and I DO sometimes find myself wanting to hurt those people for the sake of the abused. I cannot say this reaction isn’t something that I in this same position would not also find myself doing if all this bullshit happened to me the way it did. You kill my wounded child as we are returning home, from saving the world that YOU ALSO PROMISED TO HELP WITH, try to kill me, and my only child, and my entire support system. My advisor (right as he would be at this point honestly) is trying to kill me after he promised to tell me to my face if there was some bullshit I wasn’t doing, WHOM I BELIEVED WOULD, the man I’m in love with is rejecting me now too. I’m alone. I want to be loved. That’s all I’ve had, and now that I’m here THIS has happened. If this pure hearted man can’t love me. Fine. Let it be fear he respects. Then you behead my best fucking friend, my SISTER, just because you fucking could, in front of me and the man she loves, and just smile. Bitch I don’t care if I do get fucking shot out of the sky, I am destroying EVERYTHING you built too, right back.
@@andrewgautron4404 'I actively hate those who cause other people harm and I DO sometimes find myself wanting to hurt those people for the sake of the abused' And this is how ALL propaganda works, exploiting this impulse by telling you there is this URGENT moral issue that needs to be resolved NOW and if you don't support this resolution quickly, you're one of the bad guys!
15:15...Tyrion's conflicts coming true........Hmmm again Sansa understood; People may not like how she does things, but the character grew and she grew wiser.
Sansa is a moron this final season. Sansa let's Jon's secret out. Sansa knows Dany is going to realize it was her which will create a huge rift between them. Not that she didn't already cause a rift with her disrespect to the woman who came to save her home. How does this help her gain independence for the North? If Jon doesn't kill Dany at the end, there is a very good chance Dany kills Sansa. At the very least she would not get the North's independence. Remember when Littlefinger and Varys would constantly disrespect Tywin to gain his favor? No? Because that never happened because that is stupid.
@@tahireed Sansa made the right decision for the north and her house and actually for Westeros. She gave Dany good advice and point blank to your entitled goddess told her the north won't bow. The rift between Dany and Jon actually started before Sansa knew, you just don't want to see or acknowledge it. Bran tells Sam who told Jon , And Jon telling her he's Rhaegar's son and learning he's been shagging his aunt all well before Sansa and Arya even knew.
@@pjfsr7024 You say Sansa is smart and made the right decision without any reasoning. Where is your arguement? I'm not talking about the rift between Dany and Jon. I'm talking about the rift between her and the North as a whole. Sansa's decision to let the secret out caused the biggest problem/rift and almost got herself killed while destroying the North's chance at independence. How is hurting yourself and your cause smart? Dany is entitled because she expects loyalty from the people whose lives and home she is saving? Omg how crazy of her. She is just the biggest jerk ever. The only entitled one is Sansa. She has absolutely nothing to offer as a leader. She has not accomplished anything. Littlefinger, Brienne and Jon have all done her dirty work for her. Plus, Jon is the one who brought the North together. She is genuinely useless but feels entitled just like Dany. At least Dany has actually accomplished significant things that changed hundreds of thousands of people's lives for the better.
@@tahireed Dany is entitled she didn't come north for the goodness of the north, she came expecting them to bow and kiss her ring. Sansa based her decision on what she knows, what she saw and what's best for the north , her house and her family. Sansa saw what Dany did before she even entered the courtyard of Winterfell; Sansa point blank in E2 asked her pointed questions that we to this day ask people who say they want to lead us and Dany's action was to pull her hand away and give snake eyes. Sansa didn't do anything ? BS ignore the scenes and facts all you want. Sansa kept Jon's fragile alliance together, had her sister being annoying and also manipulated by LF, dealt with House Bolton and Littlefinger etc........ While Jon was on Dragonstone, almost getting himself killed for a second time and shagging his Aunt : Sansa prepared the north for war, had the forges running, armour made, weapons made, trenches were being dug, trebuchets built, food stored, areas cleared for the troops and whatever Jon brings north. Jon didn't do it Sansa did, she ran half a country, fought for her people, her house and her family and gave Tyrion a valid and more experienced person for Westeros who proved himself a leader and one people actually gravate to and; he's family! Sansa gave Dany and Jon good advice, they didn't listen and Dany lost a close friend and advisor, her fleet and her second dragon. Dany made many mistakes in the series, failed to take advice that would have helped her some of which were rather mundane, but truthful, like know the people, lands and customs of those you wish to rule; Dany never did. The Vale went north for Sansa, Theon went north FOR Sansa, the north loves and respects Sansa and the Starks, she prepared and protected her people and land as best as anyone could. Sansa tried to put Jon on the throne which is what this reactor and 90% plus wanted, just didn't happen. It's called a game of thrones; you win or you die. Dany died, Cersei died the remaining Starks are alive.
@@pjfsr7024 Litetally the only thing you mentioned that shows she is a good leader was her running the North while Jon was gone. Which isn't impressive at all. Also, she never fought for herself or her people! Arya gives Sansa a knife in 8x3 and moronic Sansa says "Derp. I dont know how to use this. Derp." Sansa has never fought a day in her life. EVERYONE ELSE DOES IT FOR HER. She literally hides with the kids while Dany is actually fighting during the short night. What are you even talking about? She almost got Jon killed in BoB by not telling him about the Vale. Absolutely stupid but I'm sure you have an excuse for that as well. It is 1000000% irrelevant why Dany has come to save the North. Because she is here, Sansa and her family now have a fighting chance. Period. The level of disrespect you have to have to be unnecessarily confrontational with the person who is saving you and your people is staggering. Dany greets Sansa warmly and Sansa acts like a bitch. That is stupid and not how you help your cause in the "game of thrones". Sansa didn't help that fragile alliance by being confrontational in front of the North when she told Jon to take away those family houses from the traitors. She almost broke the North's alliance with Dany by being confrontational and letting the secret out. She has learned nothing from LF and how to properly play the game. You keep focusing on what she wants rather than how she is going about it. HOW you try to achieve your goals is critical. Being confrontational with allies is not how you handle business in the game of thrones where you either live or die. Littlefinger and Varys were huge examples of this. Sansa is a braindead idiot that thinks being a bitch to Dany is going to help her achieve her goals. Sansa is disrespectful when they first meet and continues to be when she should be trying to gain Dany's favor. That's what smart people do. Sansa does the opposite because she is too stupid to realize her actions will work against the exact goals she is trying to achieve. Again, HOW Sansa goes about trying to achieve her goals is insanely stupid. Like I said, if Jon doesn't kill Dany at the end (something there is no way she could predict) what happens between Dany and the North? Sansa would have affectively done everything to make the Queen hate and not trust her ensuring her death or all out war. Basically, Sansa is so dumb she almost started another war right after their war with Cersei.
Dany's actress did not know she did all that.. she was on a green screen and the directors did not tell her she killed all the civilians.. she found out when she was with the some friends for a watch party.. she never saw the "finished" footage until then
This is conspiracy theory bullsh*t. Emilia herself reported being in complete shock after she read S8 scripts and having to walk around to compose herself.
Oh Dany... Sansa didn't kill Varys YOU did, Sansa gave good advice YOU and Jon said NO ! All your losses are on your decisions......If you listened to Sansa, maybe Missandei and Rhaegal still be alive along with Varys.
I really hope as soon as you finish watching and finishing the Game of Thrones series. Follow the House of Dragons series to understand and learn more about the history of Westeros and the causes that led to the downfall of House Targaryen and the destruction of the Targaryen dragons.😉
Daenerys had already been dangerous for some time. There are certain hints about Targaryen madness, if I remember correctly Barristan Selmy talks to her about it. When she's in Essos, she may be a liberator, but she repays exactly the same cruelty to her enemies. That's not a good quality for a ruler.... Tywin says something, though I don't remember if in the series or the novels, about a king having to be strong but merciful to his enemies when they surrender. The problem is that the showrunners focused so much on establishing Daenerys as a heroine, as a "good" character (being that in the novel NO ONE is completely good or completely bad), that when she takes this turn, it seems very improvised and pointless. A beautiful reaction, as always. I have to admit that while by this point I was no longer interested in the series, seeing the end of some of the characters really touches me.
Arya killed 3 generations of a family and fed a man his own sons. But those are good qualities and not madness Sansa fed an unarmed prisoner to dogs. She executed an umarmed nobleman right in court without a proper trial Robb hanged a young watcher who was forced to watch and hanged him last to torture him most Jon hanged a kid I have no issues with calling Dany evil but hate people who dont hold other characters including Starks to same standards
@@Nihilanth Yeah, just after she murdered all of their leaders. there was foreshadowing of Dany going mad, it's just it wasn't enough, the writers wrapped it up so quickly, we didn't get to see it.
@@Nihilanth They backed down after they knew that she was a wife of a former Khal. I didn't say the khalasar was good people, all I'm saying is you're talking as if they listened to her out of respect, they merely listened to her out of fear of what she might do to them.
@@boodyjacob9322 wow and you're talking as if you didn't pay attention to season 6 Dany storyline, at all. "they backed down" yeah, that's why they let her go, right? the Dosh Khaleen warned Dany that it was for the Khals to decide what were they going to do with Dany since she broke their "laws" as a widow of a khal, and that she would need to pray because they would do something bad against her. (not to say how they were literally whipping her back in the way to Vaes Dothraki). when Dany implied that they should follow her, the khals started to throwing insults and threats (khal Moro was going towards her) and she defended herself. the dothraki follow strength above all, dany killed 6 khals in one take and came through the flames, unharmed. the only thing the dothraki fear is open water, they ain't afraid of a person who was about to give them what they like: conquest. they cheered and remained loyal to the end cause Dany was the khals of khals (the prophecy about the stallion who mounts the world and would united the Dothraki into a single khalasar, was about her) just stop trying forcing this "mad queen" shit, y'all keep trying to find reasons and hints for that even in scenes like that, seriously...
In regards to her dragon getting shot down it's not out of the question that they hid well.its also normal that shes not good at battle tactics and not paying attention.
46:16 I did , never like her from the first season, knew she was gonna go mad , she was very unhinged , she was nothing like the book dany from the beginning itself.
Till season 3 she was fine..I always knew her character would have a tragic ending..she doesn't need a throne she always needed a home a place where she can belong.. I think her desperation to get the throne was due to the fact that she doesn't have home or people that she can call her own..
38:57 Look at that perfectly good dragon skull to hide under. It's actually a stand-in for the writers, as it once held a brain but now no longer does.
I feel like Dany going mad was always hinted at throughout the series. What they did to Missandei was the final straw. Whenever I feel bad about what she did, I remember that those were the same people that cheered the beheading of Ned Stark. Then I feel better.
I hear you, it's easy to think that. But for all we know every single person who was at the beheading are the few who survived. We are talking about a million small folk who have absolutely no idea what's really going on. The only source of info is what they are fed. So in hindsight, we would probably think Ned was a traitor as well. But I understand what you mean
If the story had ended with Dany going "mad" as in genocidal maniac kind, then everyone would say, yeah that makes sense, but if the story ended in a different direction and she became a ruthless yet benevolent ruler instead, everyone would still go, yeah that makes sense. What does that tell you? It tells us that those 2 goofs never did enough to setup that storyline for it to have a properly paced pay off and reasonable conclusion at the end. It was a character assassination plain and simple. Foreshadowing is not how you do character development. It never has.
With Dany...I could buy her going 'mad' eventually...they sewed the seeds throughout the years. She's very driven, very self- righteous, very uncompromising. She's scared about the Jon situation and she's feeling lonely due to the icy reception she got at Winterfell. I could see this being done well if they had another season or two, and we'd probably sympathise with her more. But not the way they wrote it here. THIS was just character assassination. It was forced. It was so rushed and unbelievable that it literally yanks you out of the story because you just know the writers didn't give a shit anymore. Jamie was another character assassination too. He'd come so far only to revert back to his season one self at the VERY LAST MINUTE. I believe he rang the bells, even if we don't see it onscreen, but saying what he did to Tyrion, then going back to Cersei? Ek.
Yes i agree with you but when you watch the whole series again then you can actually see she was a bit mad from the beginning as she watched her brother die without sheding a tear and burned various people like Sam's parents. I do believe this season her character was hurried a bit but she was always like this
Yeah would have been ok with the ending If the build up was proper and not rushed I never liked most of the Targaryens ..but d&d was too in rush to be done with GoT and start their star wars project..they got their karma thankfully when they lost the project 👏😂
@@manpreetkorr3443 Oh, I agree! Like I said, the seeds were sewn and I could see this ending happening for her character. I think I knew from season 5 that she'd be the villain eventually. But it was just rushed to the point that there wasn't even any sympathy left for her. It got boiled down to 'She Targaryen. She go mad' rather than a believable devolution into her warped sense of justice and entitlement.
'THIS was just character assassination.' 'I knew the kid, he decapitaded kittens, got into fights, lashed out at people, wanted to rule the whole block... but he never killed anyone! THIS was just character assassination!' This is how you sound. The denial is strong with you. No, it wasn't character assassination, but character actualisation. The mask finally fell from Dany's face.
The surprise fleet with scorpions killing Rhaegal was stupid. Scorpions at Kings landing suddenly not being threat at all was stupid. Dany deciding to slaughter a city was...not convincing. All of these could have been so easily solved - by having scorpions at Kings landing kill Rhaegal, giving Dany reason to snap and start killing.
You are right. Many people have lost more than her. The difference is that she has dragons, and the throne (she had been told from birth) was her birthright. Daenerys was also correct, though. The people of Westeros had no love for her. Why spare people that are only going to betray her anyway? They would only follow Jon, who betrayed her as well! I noticed the green flames of wildfire... her grandfather Mad King Aerys had hidden it throughout the city so he could "burn them all!" I wonder if the Mad King was channeling his granddaughter when he claimed to be the dragon and tried to "Burn them all!"? It makes sense, since Targaryens are known to have a touch of "green sight!" It is why they were spared the fall of Valyria. I am very invested in seeing your reactions to the series finale is, having followed you through the entire journey!!
Aerys was her father though, not her grandfather. Also, for someone never shutting up about her 'birthright' and how she is the rightful queen she really didn't stand by all that right when she learned who the actual rightful heir was - Jon. Not just because he was a man but also because he was older than her and the true heir of the crown prince. It didn't matter whether the people loved her or not - she wasn't the rightful queen after all and she did not like that. She acted like a spoiled brat asked to give up her favourite toy to its actual owner.
The meaning of Varys in this episode to us as viewers: He is the voice of the realm, voice of the people. By killing him, it sent us the message that the people were not safe anymore and we could expect 100% what Dany did later in this episode.
He was out of options and desperately trying to prevent the coming massacre he saw and Tyrion didn’t want to see coming. The time for discretion and subtlety was done lol.
I would also personally would like to have a word with the writers and directors. There was no need to make the 'Mad Queen' after everything she had been through in life and for the god-damned throne.
I know after eight seasons of rooting for Daenerys we saw her quest for power as a plus but ignored the ultimate cost of such a quest. Most fans hated this turn of events but it exactly what George RR Martin had in mind from the beginning. Ultimate power can corrupt the best of us. Danny went mad with revenge and also there was the possibility Jon might someday change his mind and take the throne away from her, as that is really all she cared about. Go back and watch for the signs of her madness, they are there.
Plus yes I think George RR Martin was just trolling us all.. Oh you guys rooted for this violence and death every action that Dany took and then he ripped the rug out here you got your violence you wanted it, perhaps making a statement ya knows... and he loves subverting tropes. Still the writing and how got there is dogshit sooo bad blatantly & rushed cannot be ignored by masses.
@@SomeGirlSomewhere Absolutely rushed. They needed to expand it into 2 seasons so the fans would see the corruption of power, build slowly. End season 8 with defeat of Night King and take another season to watch Danny consolidate her power and make everyone nervous about her. I also would have totally changed the death of Cersi. That was also a rush job. Nobody wanted to kill her because of the backlash of also killing her unborn baby. But if it was stretched over a season she could have the baby, Jamie could rescue it and died saving it and then Cersi should have been flamed by the dragon defiantly standing in her tower. But then what do I know? The budget was only so much, and HBO wanted it to end, and the showrunners wanted to move on.
@@garymussell6543 I had read that HBO wanted to keep it going and the writers wanted to move on so it was them two specifically ... and you know what they were fantastic at adapting they just can't write to save their life ha without source material... and I guess that's the problem of selling your art before you finish writing the books... but yeah you can't have like detailed nuanced writing and dialoge yearrrs and then just like go to bullet points at the end insane rushing .... though we all love it you can't just ignore it it's that terrible was like fan fiction lol
@@garymussell6543 And you know I think a lot of popular shows and movies have the problem once something becomes too aware of itself the writing changes as well. Soo many good shows after season 3 4 go to hell or side note~ever notice how a new showrunner can obliterate some great shows lol. I recall Lost girl was soo good then new showrunner and vibe and just essence gone after season like 3 ha. Same actors everything.. crazy how some formulas and ppl together just form magic.
David & Dan messed up the number of Dothraki at Kings Landing, cause most them died at Winterfell charging against the undead army, only a few of them came back before the horde appeared out of the darkness. There should've only been a handful of Dothraki at Kings Landing if any. By Season 8 David & Dan couldn't have cared less about Game of Thrones.
I don’t know why people were so upset when Dany went made queen. I always expected it and would’ve been really disappointed if she hadn’t. Throughout the entire series, all the clues were there that this is where she’d end up doing. With no advisors to temper her true nature and Jon Snow basically dumping her, there was no one left to guide her.
Your one of the first reactors that mentioned that they saw that Dani was slowly going mad. All the personal losses over a relatively short time just added up and she snapped. She had no actual connection to Kings Landing. those people didn't mean anything to her. Why not kill them? I thought they actually did this transgression pretty dam well. From the very beginning she was showing signs of being blood thirsty and "my way or the highway." Her redeeming thing was she was letting her advisors talk her out of most of the really bad things. Her first reaction to everything going against her has always been kill it. At first she I think really wanted to free the world from slavery. But as she became more powerful, her number one goal shifted from freeing every one to ruling everyone. It was a subtle but it was there. She didn't care Jon was the rightful ruler. She would have kill him too if he got in her way. The people who didn't see this coming or didn't like it happening, were just in denial. As I said before. the dragon not seeing the ships was the worst thing they did in the entire show. It didn't ruin it for me or anything. Just it was very stupid and easily could have been done better. f
She had no actual connections to the Masters of Meereen, Astapor or Yunkai. those people didn't mean anything to her. Why not kill them? They even did worse than the people of KL, they sold and tortured slaves, why didn't she go mad then and kill them all? You say she snapped because she lost Missaindei and Rhaegal in the span of a week or so but if that's the case then why didn't she snap when she lost her brother Viserys, or her husband and child in one day, or her closest maidens and blood riders of the Khalaser, or Jorah (exiled), or Barristen, or her allies from Highgarden and Dorne, or Viserion. But no, now is the time to snap apparently. You say her redeeming quality is listening to her advisors but what about the time Tyrion advised her not to risk her life to save 7 strangers at the North, or the time her advisors strategy lost her all her allies and stranded the unsullied at Casterly rock. If the story had ended with Dany going "mad" as in genocidal maniac kind, then everyone would say, yeah that makes sense, but if the story ended in a different direction and she became a ruthless yet benevolent ruler instead, everyone would still go, yeah that makes sense. That tells us that those 2 goofs never did enough to set up that storyline for it to have a properly paced pay off and a reasonable conclusion at the end. It was a character assassination at the end of the day. Subtle? more like nonexistent unless you only see what you want to see. Foreshadowing is not how you do character development. It never has and it never should be.
@@BhBc8f8 Her having no connections dosn't matter because her whole mantra the entire time she was over there was to "free the slaves." From people that meant nothing to her. She had no connections to the slaves either. Why should she care about them and not the slavers? So why should she be so eager or willing to kill people that meant nothing to here but spare the leaders of people she hated that killed her family in Westros? Unless it was her base nature to be a killer. Almost EVERY TME her first reaction was to kill people. And her advisors talked her out of it. Now sometimes her advisors were wrong when she listened to them or she came up with a better answer than the advisors AFTER they talked her out of killing people. And she became to believe her own B.S. more and more and more to the point she believed she ALWAYS knew what was best. So when listening to her advisors got all the people that were close to her killed in a VERY short period of time, she snapped and went back to her base personality of being a killer. As to why she didn't snap at those earlier times is because she wasn't fully into believing that she was "always right" mode yet. She still trusted her advisors a lot at that point. She still trusted Varies at that point and hadn't killed him. Tyrion hadn't yet failed her again getting Melisandre saved from being killed. Remember when Tyrion came and told he there was a trader he thought it was Jon Snow right away. She never thought that any of her advisors would betray her until Melisandre died. It was always building up to this since season one. The problem was they so rushed the last two season, they were not able to properly build it up. Like they were doing before.
@@boki1693 What about her first reaction to hearing that Drogon killed one of the Meereen's daughters? Who did she kill then? Instead we saw her put what she considers to be her own children in chains and locked them underground. Which tells the audience that she values the lives of innocent citizens over the well being of her own children, so where is this base killer nature then? Why didn't she tell the guy to f off and let Drogon keep doing his thing? and why did she say "I will litter the city with the blood of my enemies but not the blood of innocents"? Maybe because her having a "killer nature" is total bs and inconsistent with the character's writing. And since when is killing your enemies considered to be a bad thing in Game of Thrones. Robert did it to dethrone the Mad King, Stannis did it all the time, Tywin did it all the time, Robb did it all the time, Arya does it all the time but when Dany does it she has "a killer nature"? "Remember when Tyrion came and told he there was a trader he thought it was Jon Snow right away" You mean when she accurately deduced who betrayed her trust? She told Jon not to tell Sansa but he disobeyed her and told her anyway, who then told Tyrion, who then told Varys. If anything that just reminds us of how intelligent she is but apparently she's "mad" and has "lost her marbles". Like a woman on her period. "The problem was they so rushed the last two season, they were not able to properly build it up" Uh yes, that's literally the point 1.2M petitioners are making. The story was rushed and makes no sense. HBO greenlit 4 more seasons of 40 episodes but those clowns rejected the offer and wanted to wrap it up in 2 seasons due to fatigue and burn out. Which is understandable but instead of showing humility and passing on the torch with grace, they showed incompetence and arrogance trying to prove that GRMM isn't the only one who deserves credit for the show's success. Pride truly does come before a fall and they fell hard.
@@BhBc8f8 Well, first, I always heard they rushed the last two seasons so they could start working on the new Star Wars movie that was in production. Then ironically they got fired from it almost right away. LOL. Also, the burn out excuse makes no sense to me. Not saying because you said it but because they said it. There is no law the next season had to be in one year. The Sopranos often took more than one year between seasons. And I do agree they were total tools for how they handled all that and they deserve all the negative attention they got. And all the stuff you said I have no problem with. But I also say I don't think the last 2 seasons were as bad as people like to say they are. Not as good yes. But not horrible either. And please, it's just my opinion. Your examples why your going to say they are bad I have heard a 100x and your not going to change my opinion of it. "Instead we saw her put what she considers to be her own children in chains and locked them underground. Which tells the audience that she values the lives of innocent citizens over the well being of her own children, so where is this base killer nature then?" True but when she came back to the city after Tyrion had released them, she didn't put them back in chains did she? I think your missing my point. Dani was evolving the entire show. She was trying NOT to be a killer because she wanted everyone to see her as good. And she wanted to be good. But when the shit hits the fan, her first reaction is to kill the threat. And with the little kid the dragon ate, that wouldn't set off her killer instinct because the little kid didn't threaten her and was no threat to her. She was the threat. So there for she would be more inclined not to go to her base instinct. As more people close to her got killed by threats to her, it eroded her ability to control her instinct to kill. And enhanced the feeling she was always right. Hell, I forgot who said it but someone said she was a killer because they know a killer when they see one. Looked it up. It was Arya that said that about Dany. All I am saying is that I was not surprised by what Dany did at the end. They were hinting at this from the beginning. Now if you want to say they somewhat botched the delivery of it in the last two season, ok. It could have been better but it wasn't surprising or terrible to me that she did it.
@@boki1693 Damn sounds like you're projecting a little bit. Did Emilia Clarke offend you or something. Idk, to me you speak as though you alone have access to her inner thoughts. Dany has never once said “I want people to see me as good”, or anything resembling that interpretation or line of dialogue, you’re just implying and assuming that probably due to personal biases. And the Dragons were young then and didn’t know any better, but now they do and they listen to her more. Also went she got back to Meereen, the city was under attack so she used them to fend off the attack, when she got to Dragonstone she had them roam the cliffs away from people, and when she got to Winterfell she had them on the mountains away from people, so not sure what you’re referring to. "Looked it up. It was Arya that said that about Dany." Yes it was Arya, the thousands of memes from that line were very memorable. Arya says "she knows a killer when she sees one" after seeing Deanerys slaughter an entire city on Dragonback. Yeah no shit sherlock. Meanwhile you baked 2 brothers in a pie, fed them to their father and murdered his entire House but okay. "It could have been better but it wasn't surprising or terrible to me that she did it." Well i for one found it very surprising and a "butchering of her character" like Indian said. Would have to agree to disagree about the last 2 seasons, the cinematography, acting, set design, computer graphics, costume, music, and so on was 10/10, the writing however was compete garbage. Yeah let’s risk a Dragon to kidnap a wight even though wights can turn in castle black if not burned quickly and then parlay with Cersei because she is sooo honorable. Sure let’s have Dany kinda forget about the enemies that she came here to fight and let’s chuck the laws of physics out the window while we’re at it by sneaking up on a Dragon 1000 ft in the air, ignoring Dany, and sniping it 3 times on target 300 ft away from behind a hill. *throws script* Madness, madness and stupidity. When Ned died there was no outrage because it made sense. When the red wedding happened, no one complained because it made sense. When Daenerys went row by row burning a million people that had already surrendered to her and not Cersei in the red keep because she went "mad", it didn't make any sense hence the public backlash. As a writer, when this many people (1.2M petitioners last I checked) are this confused by your script, then make no mistake, it is your fault. Your incompetence is on full display. When GRRM completes this storyline, notice that there will be no silly petitions, public backlash or poor reviews because all character motivations will be consistent, all the setup will be properly constructed and predictable, and the arcs will be logical and compelling because that is the standard of good writing. Cheers.
Drogon must have thought that that was a dinner bell LOL
🤣🤣🤣👍
The pavlov's response is strong with this one.
Best one yet😂😂😂
The part I liked the most was how Arya used a GTA cheat code to spawn a horse..
With Benioff & Weiss's writing, I'm surprised they didn't have Arya fly off on a Pegasus, instead of riding off on a horse! Smh!
Dany felt betrayed, by Sansa, John, Varys, Tyrion, Cersei, etc. Then Misandrei was murdered by Cersei too. She lost all her more important relationships. She was vengeful.
Yeah so i will kill everyone......except Cersei 🤔
All thanks to Creators of the show for Fucking up in last season 😂
@@Aghori_Tantrik208 For me, it in no way ruined what she did, I don't care about the innocent. Human beings are never innocent, never forget that.
@@Bb.o.y.66 that doesn't mean she had the right to crucify them all. she is a freaking human too
Samwell Tarly has a higher kill-count than the whole Golden Company lol
Lmao
You are correct!!!! I never thought about it but that’s true.😅😂🤣
Well, a higher kill count than the Golden Company during the Clash of Queens at Kings Landing! A hilarious point, nonetheless!!
Thank you for saying that! Everyone loves Sam, but he's the catalyst for all kinds of f'd up stuff. Also, we're supposed to believe he made it through the long night while on the front lines?? Please...
@@jasonrd316 Bro, you really can't take a joke? lol
" A Targeryen alone in the world is a terrible thing" -Master Aemon
Aegon Targeryen is still there, how she alone?
@@jabr0nidave262 when master aemon said that line then there is only one targaryen
@@durgavaraprasad1353 It's not about when Aemon said it, its about why would that line be relevant now
@@jabr0nidave262 Ser Barristan and Jorah died, Missandei was murdered, Varys and Tyrion betrayed her, Jon she increasingly perceives as a threat... She is very alone at this point in time.
@Darkstar now that i see it so many times. Its not really that bad.
Varys: Nothing? Girl: She won’t eat. Varys: We’ll try again at supper. Girl: I think they’re watching me. Varys: with great risk comes great reward!
Varys was trying to poison Dany with the help of his little bird at the beginning of the episode
OH... i never thought about that at all.
Man I wish his plan worked.. would have saved so many lives
@@dabhyun1133 Cersei would have won the war.
@@enzonicolas7501 arya would have taken care of her
And it makes zero sense. Was he trying to keep Cersei in the throne? What was he planning to make happen if Dany died then?
Euron: I'm the one who killed Jamie Lannister
Bricks: Tell Euron it was us
"i want him to know it was us"
Tyrion is officially the tallest Lannister!
lmao
Well I am pretty sure lancel Lannister has a sister and she is away from all of the politics so she is still alive. Sorry for ruining your joke.
@@randomperson8332 I don't know that so the joke still stands as far as I'm concerned
I liked it even though I did not...
@@pr-tj5by You know it now, so the joke doesn't fucking stand idiot
And that's why we love Sandor. He knew it was his time but he did what he could to talk Arya out of making the same mistakes he made. He thought of her like a daughter.
Actually i think he thought of her more as a younger sister is my belief, same as Sansa...
in the books, there was a Clegane sister.
" And there had been a sister who had died young under queer circumstances"
Many believe Gregor killed her.
I can't agree. Sandor Clegane's character arc was NOT revenge, but growing as a person, realizing the damage he had done, trying to do what was right. This was just dumb.
Believe me. I saw more of Golden Company in the trailers than the episodes!!😂
The Arya foreshadowing actually paid off... Cersei was killed by no one
😭😭😭
Weird that she was rooting for arya to do the very thing she didnt like dany doing.killing a enemy that surrendered
@@baronhomer1 The city surrendered, not Cersei. Also, Cersei did so many bad things through out the show, as a viewer you are rooting for her to die a great death. You don't want innocent people, that the only thing day did was living, to die just because 🤷
@@martascorreia I agree with all of that besides wanting cersei to die.
@@baronhomer1 Yes the double standards when it comes to Dany vs other characters are weird. Robb, Ned, Jon, Sansa, Arya all killed enemies who surrendered and were unarmed
being a Daenerys Stan is like:
50% hating it cause it didn't make sense
50% liking it cause she served!
She "served" genocide on random innocent civilians lol
Well, then, you can't say it didn't make sense, can you? If you liked what she did whilst identifying with Dany, then you also know why she did it.
@@SerbAtheist read again. but this time, try using your braincells, you can do it!
@@Nihilanth Nah, why don't you try not being a hypocrite. If you LIKE the vengeance Dany is wreaking onscreen, then you can't say it didn't make sense. Whatever it is you liked about it is also what Dany liked about it, given Dany's well-documented disdain for the people of KL.
@@SerbAtheist I ain't reading any of that, lol. touch grass.
When you wait 10 years and 8 seasons just to ses Cersei Lannister get killed by bricks!
And the bricks got lucky anyway, cause a few steps to the right and they would have been fine. 😅 oh lord this episode is trash on fire. So many characters/arcs assassinated by the writing team of dumb and dumber, it was indeed bloodier then the red wedding.
Why do people repeat this like it’s a cutting point lmao
You could phrase it as- killed by the red keep she so desperately wanted to remain- a symbol of her arrogance and hubris. Killed by Daenerys’ wrath itself.
@@kingbobombfan Because it was clearly a scripted death and a poorly written one at that. You think that's how buildings collapse?
@@BhBc8f8 dragons show doesn't have realistic destruction
@@kingbobombfan yeah tell that to Avengers: infinity war, Lord of the rings, The Dark Knight. All fictional universes with logical and realistic set designs. What a dumb comment.
Euron vs Jamie - the fight Nobody asked for!
Euron deserved a good death.great character.
True, that fight was just annoying. That's it.
I don't hate this finale as much as many do. But yeah, was anyone interested in that fight?
Yeah, but you wanted a fight, so the showrunners obliged... gave you a two-for-one special on pointless fights which solve nothing: Cleganebowl and Jaime vs Euron.
How many people STILL think that the point of this PACIFIST show was to give you entertaining and consumable self-righteous violence in the final few episodes is nothing short of astounding.
I'd rather have had the Night King kill everyone that what we got.
Not gonna lie I wanted kings landing burning since the execution of Ned
Ouch!
12apro, I still haven't got over it....
Same but not like this just for shock value
Dany should have taken Kings Landing upon arrival!
You know what's sad, the whole scene with Daenerys going mad could have been one of the best things on the show if we have had more episodes to develop that. Yes there was a lot of foreshadowing of Dany coming back to power with "fire and blood" but there was never an instance where she showed hatred towards the innocent people. (everyone dany had killed there was some justification behind it)
What an waste! D&D, it seems that this show was too big for your minds
Has they just followed the books… the books are setting this up. The show whitewashed Dany to an extreme to give her a hero arc so people would watch, then in the final season they tried to revive original plots from the books of her going ‘mad’ and butchered it.
Exactly! Her going mad in itself isn't unbelievable, but the writers went from point A to C without really giving point B enough time to develop C into a reasonable conclusion for her story.
' the whole scene with Daenerys going mad could have been one of the best things on the show if we have had more episodes to develop that. '
Then it wouldn't be the brutal rug pull that it was now would it? It would just be affirming the usual Hollywood tropes about what evil is like by giving them to Dany over the course of a long length of time.
'but there was never an instance where she showed hatred towards the innocent people.'
What the hell are you talking about? She literally treated the people she 'freed' as her personal cattle. Herding them off into collective centers like they were refugees in their own city or something. They tell her the conditions are so bad people want to sell themselves right back into slavery, and what does she do? Nothing! She only cares about freeing slaves to the extent it brings glory to her. And let's not even get to the fact that she does NOT view the people of KL as innocent, especially after refusing to flock to their 'rightful queen.'
Dany's story was fully developed. It's the audience who was in denial about her.
@@SerbAtheist making it come out of absolutely nowhere just to make it a "brutal rug pull" is dumb lazy writing for shock value because David and Dan arent capable of anything better than that, thats the exact problem
"They tell her the conditions are so bad and what does she do? Nothing"
Literally untrue
But all of this is moot. Dude, I get it, you like the season and you want to defend it, but nothing will ever make Daenerys spending like 40 minutes methodically burning down as many innocent people as possible for literally no reason at all make sense to anyone except people who cant accept the writing completely went to shit in the later seasons
@@SerbAtheist tl;dr becoming a moustache twirling villain commiting genocide and killing half a million people because she had flaws during the series is incredibly bad written
Daenerys's mind and ideology was foreshadowed since long. It's just her fans never saw it just like Jon and Tyrion. And when they did see it (thanks Sansa & Varys), it was too late.
Daenerys: One day your great city will return to the dirt as well.
Hizadar: At your command?
Daenerys: If need be.
Hizadar: And how many people will die to make this happen?
Daenerys: If it comes to that, they will have died for a good reason.
Hizadar: Those men think they're dying for a good reason.
Daenerys: Someone else's reason.
Hizadar: So your reasons are true and theirs are false? They don't know their own minds, but you do?
Sandor protected both of Neds girls and they both thanked him.
So?
“Oh for fucks sake”
Perfect synopsis
Between seasons seven and eight, we got 13 episodes when it should have been 20. With an additional seven, they would've had more time to map out Daenerys' descent into madness. We don't know how long the Little Birds were trying to poison her. We don't know how many ravens Varys sent out with the truth about Jon (and that's my biggest problem with the finale).
Ye the storytelling was retarded but they prob could’ve made it work if they hadn’t rushed. Such a shame as no other series has (or likely will) make me feel how GOT did. Even now I can still go back and spend hours replaying scenes from early seasons. Ironically it’s one of the few series that should’ve gone on for longer rather than outstayed its welcome.
1) Don't know how long they were trying to poison her? The little girl literally TALKS about her repeated attempts to poison her with Varys.
2) It's obvious that Varys burned his letters upon hearing the guards approach.
3) You had around 7 season or so to map out Dany's not just madness, but cruelty, entitlement and penchant for using violence to get her way.
when you think about it, the night king was actually the good guy!!
Omg it's nearly over. Loved this journey with you. Your amazing. Much love from Australia 🇦🇺
Bran Stark: I'm the most uselles chacter in this season...
Golden Company: Nah bro
All the signs were there, she was never the mad queen but she was the merciless queen who could be talked down by her advisors. Events and scriptwriters have stripped her of trusted advisors and the heat of battle is upon her. The slaughter in kings Landing was neither necessary or unexpected. As recently as WW2 the populations governed by evil regimes were slaughtered in part by doctrine of total war and in part in revenge. From Dresden to Hiroshima it was difficult to find one stone upon another and a family intact. Only very few are ever judged on what they did in war, the rest have bad dreams.
Na mate , that’s a crock of shit lol
Now you see why fans thought this season was…controversial. It was still good tv in my opinion. I definitely didn’t see certain things coming.
This was in the cards for Dany since at the very least when she burned Mirri Maz Duur alive out of revenge. When Dany gets upset and vengeful she also gets really violent and in this case there was noone there to push her off the dragon or to convince her not to do this because she no longer trusts Tyrion's advice and she might consider Jon potential future competition so...yeah. Maybe the point is that noone should be given the power that Dany has. Dany is in essence a conquering monarch with a messiah complex who tries to gain absolute power over a continent she does not know and whose people don't know her. There is no real reason for us to root for a violent conquest of the Seven Kingdoms after the horror that was the War of the Five Kings other than the vague values that Dany espouses but never really elaborates upon in any significant detail. There are a lot of moments where the story lets Dany's actions sit with the audience and it's up to the audience to question whether what she did is righteous or not and often people tend to ignore that she locked people in vaults to starve to death, or that she fed living people to her dragons in Meereen or that she burned POWs alive. Sadly, a lot of people are distracted by the magic of the dragons. I get the power fantasy behind Dany as a character but that in itself does not exempt Dany from the rather strict standards that get applied to every other character in this story.
A FUCKING MEN. unfortunately this decision very heavily sways people’s opinions of this series. This has always been who Dany is. If enough people tell you not to do something you really want to do you’ll listen to them if you respect them. But if they’re all gone and the one person you really valued their opinion is dead…. When those bells start ringing it pisses her off.
"Wait for me outside..... You'll know when it's time"
Dany and GW already made a decision; hence she doesn't really go mad she's pissed off and stewing.
Yes, people thought ''the time'' was blasting the gates, but it really wasn't. It was Dany starting her rampage.
"wHeN a TaRgArYeN iS bOrN, tHe GoDs FliP a CoIn"
except, only 4 targaryens (arguable) out of a family with 300+ actually went mad.
There's a few more than that in the history books but doesn't change that this episode is terrible
@@idawg7332 don't recall any.
this was told by Daenerys grandfather so we can't be sure it is true it so not, like not all called Targaryens mad are actually mad some of them were actually just cruel like Maegor The cruel he was cruel not mad he was sane in what he was doing same with Aegon IV he was fat selfish fool and lastly Aerys so called mad king he i think heard prophecy from his father that prince that was promise will be born from his line and he was so determined to fulfill so was scared for his life , same happen to Rhaegar he read about prophecy and he changed so ,so called madness is not real .
"targaryen madness" also isnt "ive been fine all my life but literally all of the sudden i turn i to hitler" lmao
@@idawg7332 if khal drogo doesn’t die this happens in season 4. Pay attention to everything.
Everyone noticed how much she changed since season 1 and how strong she became or how she became cruel and crazed with power. Somehow no one seems to take into consideration how much she has suffered and been through since season 1. They crucified 163 CHILDREN on the way to Meereen for any traveler to see and so she crusified 163 slave masters and if that's not justice i don't know what is. When a person has been through so much, her brother was clearly abusive, he in a way sold her to the Dorthraki for their army, Drogo forced himself on her repeatedly until she decided to get in control and pleasure him only to reduce some of her pain, he threatened her child, she lost her husband and her child and so she made her dragons her entire world, she has no space for patience she cannot tolerate a sign of cruelty anymore, it makes her impulsive and angry. And its set in historical times where execution was very very normal, she fights injustice with justice and Justice has to be cruel sometimes.
its funny how 1 terrible act makes people forget the numerous goods that have been done by the person. But those who have been liberated by her, those who have seen the atrocities of being under ruthless rule and chains still support her and stand with her because they can see what she did and her intentions clearly. She lost 2 of her children and her best friend to that city. She did not sacrifice or tear apart the entire world, she snapped and in rage burnt down 1 city of 1 kingdom, which would have gotten her the loyalty of SEVEN kingdoms. She did not loose her mind, she was momentarily over powered and overwhelmed by emotion, she was one of those rare people who feel emotions extremely deeply almost to extremes. When she saw slaves being tortured she liberated them and gave them the world, and when all her friends and children begin to be torn apart she burned the world down. I do not mean to say that what she did was right or necessary in real terms, but I understand why she would have felt that way then, and that its not okay to ignore all the good she has done and label her a threat owing to just 1 incident. Yes she snapped and burnt maybe a few thousands of people to the ground but she freed 8000 unsullied and 200,000 slaves in Yunkai and more in Meereen, and Aspahor.
She did not loose her mind she momentarily gave in to her emotions, in a short span of time she has seen many of her loved ones die. i am pretty sure she could hear Missandei's "Dracarys" in her mind all those days and she waited a few days on account of her advisors, yet Varys tried to poison her through food..
The speed of Daenerys’ turn added to it and made it better- in response to grief her first instinct throughout the show has been shown to be fire and blood through incredible acts of violence .
She’s always been counselled out of it by the people she trusts and she has lost them all one by one. She is truly alone and turns to her worst impulses and there is no one left to check them.
It’s heartbreaking and it’s only character assassination if you want the story to go exactly the way you imagined it would go.
THANK YOU!
@@charlescates5703 I can understand some people thinking it’s rushed at first but the fact that she goes through so much grief so quickly is a direct factor in what she does. If she had more time to process and grieve she maybe would have done things different. Thus the tragedy of it all.
Exactly this! I’ve tried over and over trying to explain to friends it was losing the people and advisors closest to her that pushed her over into her natural disposition and they’ve all just told me to stfu hahahaha
I’m probably one of the few fans who liked how the show ended
This is exactly the way i wanted it to go and it would only be character assassination if these we're still characters. Theyre not, theyre actors being used as props to rush through the story as quickly as possible
The audience and the critics reaction show it was not right or done "better"
Arya killing entire 3 generations of a family and feeding a man his own sons were not incredible violence
Robb hanging a young watcher who was forced and hanging him last to torture him was not incredible violence
Sansa feeding an unarmed prisoner to dogs and killing a nobleman without a poroper trial was not ncredible violence
I hate double standard hypocrites
And I hate people who claim - you hate story only because it didnt go where you wanted. Its the laziest and most bad faith argument
Ned story didnt go where we wanted, people loved it. Robb's story didnt go where people wanted. People loved it. Oberyns story didnt go where people wanted. People loved it
Danys turn to villain would have been a brillaint plot if done right. It wasnt done rihght. And THAT's is what people complain about
Stop being a hypcorite and making lazy arguments and adress the actual points
1. Jamie, known as "The King Slayer" (Something that cut him Inside) because he saved thousands of innocents, Now saying: "I never cared for the innocent!"
2. Dozens of Scorpions on the walls and at sea, and not one could hit Drogon!
3. The Golden company were as useful as Teets on a Bull! Died in 10 seconds of screen time!
4. The Dothraki army back in full!: Benioff after the long night episode: "That's the end of the Dothraki!" Guess Dany learned how to raise the dead from the Night King!
5. Eight seasons for Cercei and Jamie to just die under falling stones???
6. Arya somehow surviving the city in genocide and dragon fire by running around and hiding behind stone walls, when the dragon fire was destroying everything, including stone walls!
7. Jon's season 8 dialogue: "She's mah queen!" "She's Ouh queen!" "I don't whan it!"
Other than that, Brilliant writing by Dan & Dave! Just Brilliant!
@Darkstar Oh, there's a lot more left! Next and final episode, coming up!☹
@@jaybird8192 Yep!
"6. Arya somehow surviving the city in genocide and dragon fire by running around and hiding behind stone walls, when the dragon fire was destroying everything, including stone walls!" This was a weak point
@@Sam_Guevenne Your mind is weak!😂
Never bring a sword to a flamethrower fight
It's funny how those of us who never liked Dany since the beginning didn't see her turn as a character assassination. We saw it as the same shit she's been doing the ENTIRE show, but because it was to "bad guys" back then, nobody cared. The only reason she never went this far in earlier seasons was lack of power and being surrounded by her advisors who constantly talked her down. This episode makes perfect sense to me.
PREACH. THE BELLS RINGING FROM PEOPLE WHO DONT REALLY FUCK WITH HER SET HER OFF.
this episode makes no sense she just wouldnt do that. in the books even more so because there was a covid lol going on and she walked amongst the people and began healing them. they rushed it just to go to star wars like if they were great writers, they just took george's work once they didnt have books, chaos
Frfr and she lost the ones she loved to
When you look back even to the first season of GoT they set up the mad queen story then season 1 watched her brother die, she killed the witch in the worst possible way even after she explained why she did what she did to Drogo, she locked Doreah in a vault at the end of season 2 yes she betrayed her but they were friends could have killed her fast in season 4 she crucified masters even if some were innocent in season 5 she fed men again could have been innocent to her dragons season 6 burned men alive season 7 burned men alive and didn’t listen to her advisors after a failed plan it just disguises her madness really well but it has always been right in front of the viewers faces
Qyburn's death was more satisfying than Cersei's
the died in a similar fashion though . both smashed against rocks
Cersei's death was sad.wish her family could have won.
I liked Qyburn. He seemed like the funny uncle who knew a lot of cool stories. An overall nice guy as long as you don't sneak into his locked basement...
Cersei’s death was poetic.
@@baronhomer1 I'd rather Cersei, the Night King or anyone won rather than 'Bran the Broken'. Complete joke. Just not a funny one.
"And then they all died. The End."
- George RR Martin
I love how Tyrion is still trying to reason with Daenerys by telling her that she "liberated" so many enslaved people. She did nothing of the sort. She built an army to take the Iron Throne. It might have seemed like she was freeing slaves but she was only really giving them the option of following her or, most likely, being captured and enslaved by the next group that came along. Also, the fact is that they would have followed her anywhere since the only life they knew was obeying their masters and she was their new master. It is fun to watch Targaryen fans hold on to hope for her redemption. Will reason swoop in and save her from herself? Tune in and find out! ;-)
She snapped. She had just lost Jorah, her second dragon and Missandei. Tyrion, Jon and Varys betrayed her. Then the final straw was Jon turning her down. The coin tossed and the insane Targaryen won out
I disagree on Varys and Jon and Tyrion as well ;Sansa was correct he has conflicted loyalties, family or Dany, Jon too chose his family and Varys point blank told her he tell if she's making a mistake, her reply and I'll burn you alive if you betray me.
@@pjfsr7024 In her mind they betrayed her. Whether it was a true betrayal or not, for her it was perceived as betrayal
I love Arya & Sandor’s friendship.
53:10 The armies/people would have followed Dany if she didn't burn the city? You're forgetting about basically everything that's happened so far in the whole season. "She" saved Winterfell, and the entire world probably, but who got the acclaim? Jon. She knows that Jon's secret is out (thanks Sansa, Tyrion, and Varys) and any gratitude she'd earn for liberating the city would be short lived, at best. They'd all praise Jon and surely elevate him to the throne. THIS is how she'll ensure the safety of her throne: people being too terrified of her to disobey her.
""She" saved Winterfell, and the entire world probably, but who got the acclaim? Jon."
No, Arya. Because Arya really did save everyone, in a plot twist that was almost as atrociously written as Dany's burning of Kings Landing.
"She knows that Jon's secret is out (thanks Sansa, Tyrion, and Varys) and any gratitude she'd earn for liberating the city would be short lived, at best."
Why would any of the smallfolk in Kings Landing give a rats *ss whether Jon or Daenerys sits the throne? They don't know either of them. This argument makes no sense whatsoever.
" THIS is how she'll ensure the safety of her throne: people being too terrified of her to disobey her."
Yeah, that's really extremely dumb, it's completely out of character for her, it's not justified by anything that happened the prior eight seasons of the show. Which is why it's objectively one of the worst written plotlines in any piece of fiction ever produced by humanity.
In one episode, in the course of a few hours of westeros times, Dany became THE biggest mass murderer of all time. What she did is soooo much worse then even what the mad king wanted. In one episode she betrayed EVERYTHING she stood for the entire time. Absolutly tragic.
Olena Tyrell told Dany to stop listening to Tyrion and her advisers and be a DRAGON!!!!! She did… it’s all in the show. She rolls her eyes every time Tyrion told her not to destroy kings landing. Because THIS IS WHAT SHES ALWAYS WANTED TO DO.
Anyone who says Dany was out of character with what she ended up doing hasn't been paying attention. Look at what she's just gone through: Losing Viserion, finding out Jon is the heir to the throne, being shunned by Jon, Jorah and Missandei dying, Rhaegal dying. She was under a massive amount of emotional distress. What she ended up doing, even though it was wrong, was 100% in line with her character.
Exactly! Even in seasons prior , there was glimpses of her going that way.
No it wasn’t. Genocide was not part of her character.
Tired of people defending this nonsense. A good person doesn't turn evil on a dime because they face difficult times. There would be a notable decline of character over an extended period of time. Dany has a sense of justice and mercy throughout the series but could be brutal to her enemies when she had to be. She had a moral compass. It's just a bad setup by the writers.
@@gideondavid30 'A good person doesn't turn evil on a dime because they face difficult times.'
You're right. However, Dany was never a good person.
I disagree with everyone who says that Danny “suddenly” turned. No, there have been so many cues and examples of her being like her father. Like the R+L=J video where most people were like, I didn’t see that. The same holds for Danny’s downfall.
Willingly or not, but Dany had soaked up Dothraki culture...remember Khal Drogo's speech? "I will kill the men in iron suits and tear down their stone houses." Sure, she's a dragon, but she is also the stallion who was aiming to mount the world.
When you play the game of thrones.
You either win or you die - Cersei Lannister
May she Rest In Peace, her reign has ended.
anyone who thought dany was wonderful and benevolent this whole show was blinded by her badass moments.
she had to be counseled and reasoned into EVERY SINGLE good decision she made. her automatic response, her TRUE nature, was always fire & blood. always to kill if she was disobeyed. always to slaughter those who disagreed. she was NOT meant to sit on the iron throne. she was NOT a good person just because she freed slaves. she was willing to kill anyone who didnt acknowledge her "right" to do literally anything she did. even WITH counsel she refused to compromise or work with her enemies. not even enemies, just those who disagreed.
did they rush the last two seasons, especially s8? absolutely. but this was daeanerys character all along. people just refused to see it. they cheered her when she threatened again and again and again to burn people and cities to the ground and then acted SHOCKED when she did exactly that to kings landing.
It it feels like a betrayal, it’s because it’s supposed to.
Martin said that grey characters are unpredictable, and that they could do a good thing on a Monday, and a horrible thing on a Tuesday.
no because, it was just so ???? like why would she burn everyone and not go straight to cersei? it would be “more understandable” if she went to cersei and ended up burning the people inside the red keep, get the throne but get rejected by everyone and then decided to burn kings landing entirely idk 🤷🏻♀️
And plus what gets me to burn your own family made infrastructure lol.
They should made it like she wins and thenn she cuts misandei head off and snaps. Not oh u win nowwwwww burn your family history and innocents for hours and hours and hours. CANNOT justify just baddd writing did not sell us on it lol
'why would she burn everyone and not go straight to cersei?'
Because she could. Because no one gets to tell her what to do, not anymore. Because it is a message to anyone in Westeros: obey your queen THE FIRST TIME or die!
42:00 It seems out of nowhere because they rushed through the story, she lost so many people and her dragons. Viserion, Jorah, Missandei, Rhaegal, etc. She also feels alone because people gave more credit to Jon who's actually the true heir to the throne and no one was celebrating with her after they defeated the Night King. She was always trying to do the right thing and still things weren't going her way and she was tired of doing the right thing while her enemies like Cersei were doing the wrong things and getting what they want. All these and various other things combined to push her over the edge. It would have made perfect sense if they took it slow and didn't rush through. Don't forget this is GoT, there are no good or bad people here, its much more complicated and nuanced.
They are not very clear (its season 8, you know). When Varys mentions Jon'r right to the throne during their conversation, Jon winces. Oh, he knows where the news came from.
"I've never known bells to mean surrender" - Ser Davos, before Battle of Blackwater
"I hate the bells, they ring for horror" - Lord Varys
Yet suddenly all of the citizens of Kings Landing know that bells = surrender lol
Great reaction!
Funnily enough though this criticism might work as an explanation of why Dany went berserk.
I could fanwank that Tyrion was bullshitting Daenerys. Still, lazy writing though.
@@darth856 I was thinking more that it triggered Daenerys or something.
Also just because Varis and Davos make some remarks about bells ringing during times of strife rather than times of surrender doesn't mean that it's a rule that they're never to be rung when surrendering, or that human fallibility might mean that a different approach is adopted under highly unusual circumstances.
People are being really weird picking this as a sticking point, as if an offhand remark by a character is somehow gospel truth, or that people are robots who always act consistently and rationally, or that it couldn't have been the exact point that thoughtlessly ringing the bells to surrender triggered Dany because they rang when she fled King's Landing as a child and this was already set up in preceding dialogue that bells ring for horror.
@@Faerie_Kim No. Bells means a battle or a siege. Never surrender. That has been a rule for at least hundreds of years, probably longer on this continent. People dont just randomly make a new meaning up. Besides, Daenerys didnt even live one minute in Kings Landing. She was born on Dragonstone and her brother and her were brought to Essos from there. She was an infant when that happened, she has absolutely no recollection of anything about Westeros aside from the stories Viserys told her.
@@Serryy Tyrion told her what it meant. Y’all really mad about that? Lol
I remember the red priestess saying that Dany would remake the world & would purify nonbelievers by the 1000s burning their sins & flesh away. So I always expected she'd kill 1000s of people by the end but not like this 💀
Death by fire is the purest death- Mallisander
If you just edit out the bells ringing it makes vastly more sense. I think they wanted it to be as unambiguous as possible though. There are people who defend the decision and point to specific moments in Dany's characterization to support it. The problem is that I think Emilia Clark wasn't given good direction and she's been playing a messianic type figure until these last few episodes where they told her what she's going to do. In reality she's supposed to be a narcissistic type figure and be dropping hints that if she isn't loved, she'll choose to be feared. The issue is that the moments where that happens in the show, Emilia is playing the character differently because she wasn't given good direction. It's only *now* you see her being berserk, angry and so on. She should have lost her cool at a bunch of other occasions too. (When she killed her brother, when she killed mari magdur, when she executed the slavers, when she executed the slaves, when she killed the khals, and so on).
Emilia plays those moments like a messianic figure exacting justice and is fairly detached during it. It's just something she "Has to do". Here, it becomes extremely apparent Dany doesn't have to do this, and so the acting comes across now that she understands the character. (She wasn't told until they started shooting what was going to happen. It's absolutely not her fault.). I bet you they didn't give her direction with any of this in mind. They didn't correct her and tell her to be playing the character a certain way in seasons 1-7 for this ending to make sense. In effect, she has been playing a completely different person up until about 2 episodes ago. I still love the show, but this is one of the most controversial things in television history.
I think they should have not rung the bells. Then she does this. Then she can still play off the calm and detached type of Dany who will insist she's "Doing what she has to do.", which is how she has been portraying the character. But the directors apparently don't understand this and didn't understand why everyone was annoyed with this decision, and will point to these moments in her history as evidence she's always been this way. Because they legit look at Dany being angry and working herself up to destroy a city and they see that acting and think "yes, this is following the script.", and they see that as the same person who killed mari magdur, killed her brother, and so on. Because they don't understand acting and how it changes the portrayal of what's going on, they only see "Thing A happens and Thing B happens and Thing C happens.".
Imagine if during all of Dany's moments where she's violent she was behaving like she did here and how predictable this would have been.
Either that, or you don't include the bells and have her just destroy the city and calmly insist to people she "Had to do it in order to break the wheel" and have everyone slowly realize she's insane.
I really don't understand how so many people didn't see this coming and feel as if she betrayed her character.
@@charlescates5703 Because the writers failed at their Job. When Ned died there was no public outrage because it made sense. When the red wedding happened there was no public outrage because it made sense. When Daenerys burned a million people that had already surrendered to her because she went "mad", it didn't make any sense hence the public backlash. As a writer, when a lot of people are this confused by your script, make no mistake, it is your fault. You messed up somewhere. When GRRM writes this storyline, notice that there will be no backlash because the character motivations will be consistent, the setup will be properly paced and the plot will make sense.
Sorry to say, but George had his imprint on all the main characters ending, in time for the last 2 episodes, after his work was awol for two & half seasons. The ending was firmly placed in cement by George before the pilot episode even aired. The foreshadowing of the dragon over king's landing, the Mad King going mad & saying "Burn them all." The Mad King wasn't mad when he became king, too many choose to ignore that. Too many things gone wrong in a short time, enough to turn Dani mad. Like you said, she really had one person in the end that was her true blue. Enough backlash to the ending made George reverse course of his ending to make a new one, after he worked on his book for 12 years, a book that he never released.
In the end, you fell in the same trap as many, thinking you really were the storyteller. "I thought they should of done this & should of done that." Only one story teller of the books, who told the screenplay writers on how the ending should be for all the main characters. This all was revealed backstage by D&D & the cast at the Emmy Awards after receiving the Best Drama Award for season 8, an award they won for the 4th consecutive year. When asked if they changed the ending as they went along towards the end, they simply said that they followed what George had laid out for them from the every start.
People insisting that Dani acted out of character are in denial. She commits an atrocity in almost every season, but the audience finds it cool as long as it is against someone they don't like.
THIS. SHIT. RIGHT. HERE. 💯💯💯
wrong, Dani mostly killed slave masters and oppressors while freeing slaves and the innocent.
@@rl1171 and she constantly talked about what she wanted to do in kings landing and all of her advisors were against that. She’s always wanted to rule in fear
@rickking228 it appears our definitions of evil differ, besides, the vast majority of them certainly are
@@avonbarksdale91 that's a false characterization
I want to see your reactions to so many other different tv series and movies. You are so great.
Lady Olenna to Daenerys....".Your a dragon, Be a dragon"..........she knew !!!
I think when she killed that guy who killed the 'master' or 'son of harpy' that Danearys killed in front of everyone, after Sir Berrestan died was a turning point for her. Then when she felt alone at winterfell after the battle knowing what she knew about Jon and how they all were rallied around him. Missandei was the cherry on top of her switch to no mercy. Just thought
So why wasnt Robb killing an innocent watcher who was forced to watch, Sansa feeding an unarmed prisoner to dogs, Arya killing multiple generations of a family and feeding a man his own sons, etc etc not turning points for them?
@@harish123az First of all.. I love Dany. my thoughts on your question is Dany started out so innocent and grew to be an amazing leader, a hero against the white walkers a few times. Sansa, after what Ramsey did to her, as I have been through myself....I'd have done the same thing. It almost sounds as if you sympathize with Ramsey...(scary thought).Arya started off episode one not wanting to be a Lady, but a warrior....she has always known who she is. Frey killed or had others kill so many of her Family. She saw the wolf's head on Robbs body. It goes back to the story in the Lore of 'Rat & Cheese" where the similar happened. Inviting people in your home then killing them. I forget which Seasons Lore it's in, but it's in there. Again, I love Dany, I was speaking as a witness as to the decline of her mental well being that led to her burning tons of innocent people, children! It was sad to see her at dragon stone after not eating etc. I felt bad for her. I wish she had just gone straight to the red keep and not done what she did. But I believe her mental health 'snapped'. It was sad to see that happen to her
@@mamakat114 My point was - we should not not judge different people using different standards, and Ramsay was an example to show something cruelty and revenge is justified
Dany will snap in the books, the main complaint is that it could be handled and shown much better than we got in the rushed show episodes
@@harish123az cool. I wasn't judging her any way. I was sympathizing with her mental health decline. Yes, way too rushed in the rushed episodes. It's all 👍
Dany was always like this, she just charmed us. That’s the whole point of her character, to show you how easily people fall for the Stalins, Hitlers etc. In season one Drogo is talking about destroying Kings Landing, raping women, Dany is looking on with satisfaction. That’s what she wanted all along. She burns people alive, crucifies them… some deserving some not but all for getting in her way not for moral reasons. She’s an instrument of rage and vengeance not justice. The Tarleys? They don’t want to fall to their knees and worship some foreign invader they don’t even know, so burn them alive? How has she ever been any better than Melisandre? That’s who she is. We as the audience fell in love with a psychopath and this episode is our punishment.
'We as the audience fell in love with a psychopath and this episode is our punishment.'
Bingo! Absolutely spot on.
Furthermore, now you know how it happens in real life. People in western countries always have this smarmy holier-than-thou attitude when it comes to how come people in poorer and less developed parts of the world didn't recognize a budding dictator or a tyrant. This is how. When you're poor and oppressed enough, anyone who seems like they're battling the forces of evil to your benefit will be someone you desperately latch on to, ignoring their red flags until it's far far far too late.
Rip Varys. The only that cared about the relm no matter who sat on the throne.
They ruined his character in the last season imo. He had no right or reason to kill Dany, she hadn't done anything wrong yet. She was mourning. And he does all of this instead of talking to her (like he had promised) because he thought Jon should be king because.... he had a dick. Wow, slow clap.
@@4Tom4lepus4 and since when does varys care about rightful kings and throne successions? It was always that he didn't care who sat the iron throne as long as the common people were not harmed. It feels like they created the character for season 8 without knowing the previous seasons...
Really? Let me remind you of the Varys who sided with Robert to kill young children also the mad King himself!
@@aaronlobo496 I understood it that he did that to prevent a bigger war, but correct me if I'm wrong
@@felixhamm3715 if that's the concept then it could have helped Dany for better good if applied in her case. Majorly it only suggests he sided the king to let the king have the throne!
So Arya got to kill the Night King whom she never saw or fought but did't get to kill cersei who was on her list since season 1. And how they assassinated the whole arc of Jon Snow being Aegon Targaryan. He did not get a fight with the Night King which they had been foreshadowing since season Hardhome. It did't even matter at the end what his name was.
But your expectations are subverted am i right? /s
@@BhBc8f8 The hacks got what they deserved - faded into obscurity. Lmao.
After this episode I was in complete shock. I grieved for those innocent people and Sandor for a full week. I was a mess (yeah, I can be a bit too sensitive sometimes, oops)
I expected Dany to go crazy since season 2 but I agree, there should have been more episodes, more time, to see her slowly go mad. That process would have actually been interesting to see. Right after this episode all I wanted was for Dany to die a slow and painful death. Not necessarily cause I wanted to see her suffer, but there have been characters with pretty nasty deaths who didn't do what she did. (Might just be my intense emotions talking though).
There’s been 8 seasons of the show. They’ve shown how she’s feels about taking her fathers crown since SEASON 1. Viserys has been in her ear way before we meant them in season 1.
@@avonbarksdale91 There's been 8 seasons in the show, and not one of them ever contained a single Daenerys scene where it was set up or implied that she might some day randomly kill civilians with no military necessity whatsoever "because she went mad". It's one of the worst written plotlines in any piece of fiction ever produced by human civilization.
@@frankvandorp2059 ''not one of them ever contained a single Daenerys scene where it was set up or implied that she might some day randomly kill civilians with no military necessity whatsoever "because she went mad"''
Then you've been watching the show with your eyes closed:
Drogo:''I will kill the men in iron suits and tear down their stone houses. I will rape their women, take their children as slaves."' Dany becomes enamoured with her husband.
'Your enemies will die screaming' S1
'When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground. Turn us away and we will burn you first.' S2
Burning Astapor to the ground (not like there were women and children in there or anything) S3
'They can live in my new world or they can die in their old one.' S4
Dany as she burns an innocent man alive and feeds him to her dragons with unmistakable relish:
'Maybe all of you are innocent, maybe none. I'll let my dragons decide'
'If I give everyone what they deserve, I’ll have no one left to rule.'
Dany to Hizdahr: "One day, your great city will return to the dirt," 'At your command?' 'If need be.' S5
Promising the Dothraki they will kill men in iron suits and tear their cities down.
Dany to Tyrion:
"I will crucify the Masters. I will set their fleets afire, kill every last one of their soldiers, and return their cities to the dirt, you don't approve?' Tyrion barely talks her out of it, only because of the ships they can use. S6
... and this is before she even reaches Westeros, where a whole new host of red flags can be added to her psyche.
@@SerbAtheist "Dany becomes enamoured with her husband."
The very next episode Dany goes against everyone else and starts helping innocent people as soon as one village gets slaughtered. Quite a bit more impactful than Dany simply looking happy when someone else says something.
"Your enemies will die screaming' S1"
Those are people she thinks are guilty, therefore no innocent people.
About the burning cities examples, those are all in reference to attacking an enemy city in open war against her, where enemies are actively fighting back from that city. Not a city that has already surrendered full of innocents.
"They can live in my new world or they can die in their old one."
Again, this is a reference to the slavers she rules over, and they will die only if they directly oppose her.
"Dany as she burns an innocent man alive and feeds him to her dragons with unmistakable relish"
This doesn't happen in the books of course and is a departure from her character, but again these are members of the noble elites who she sees as guilty of both slavery and rebellion. She isn't burning innocent slaves for the crimes of the masters in Meereen.
"I will crucify the Masters. I will set their fleets afire, kill every last one of their soldiers, and return their cities to the dirt, you don't approve?"
Again, this is her talking about enemies in a war, not defenseless innocents in times of peace.
"and this is before she even reaches Westeros, where a whole new host of red flags can be added to her psyche."
And none of your examples actually support your argument.
@@frankvandorp2059 'The very next episode Dany goes against everyone else and starts helping innocent people as soon as one village gets slaughtered.'
Oh, yes, sure she beamed upon hearing of cities burned, people slaughtered and women raped... but she took pity on a few remaining survivors of a horrific massacre, so it's all OK! Not that she had anything against the Dothraki continuing these massacres, mind you, but just that upon slaughtering villages they should simply make sure to marry all the surviving women before raping them.
'Those are people she thinks are guilty, therefore no innocent people.'
Right, she merely wants to kill the people she THINKS are guilty! How relieved I am! That's totally not what tyrants do!
'About the burning cities examples, those are all in reference to attacking an enemy city in open war against her [..]. Not a city that has already surrendered full of innocents.'
Citation needed. That's you filling in the blanks for good 'ole Dany. 'Turn me away and I shall burn you first.' Remember those words, bub? No need to be in open war against Miss Bloodthirsty. Just refuse to let her in with her dragons.
'these are members of the noble elites who she sees as guilty of both slavery and rebellion.'
Right, she SEES them as guilty and therefore they are guilty! Never mind that it later turns out it was not them but insurgents from Astapor and Yunkai. Mind you, apart from its cruelty, it was also an act of breathtaking stupidity. Hizdahr and his men were her quislings! Were Dany ever to fall or leave Mereen, it would be their heads on a pike.
'Again, this is a reference to the slavers she rules over, and they will die only if they directly oppose her.'
Ah, how comforting to be in such a dictatorship... just don't oppose Dany and you'll live! Except, of course, if she has a hunch that you're guilty of something in which case welcome the sweet release of fiery death.
'And none of your examples actually support your argument.'
Your 'defense' of Dany has been far more damning than any attack I've ever made.
And so we come to my second favorite episode of the show, the first being the final episode of course. I know that while the mythology-obsessed nerds expressed more ire at the Long Night, it was the casual fans, such as IC, that had the biggest problem with this episode.
As IC said, the expectation was for Dany to win and for Cersei to be killed in such a spectacular way. The hidden assumption was 'Sure, GOT put us through a ringer, but at least here in the end we will get the glorious pay off where the 'forces of good' are completely triumphant and everything is set right.'
Alas, people fatally misjudged what kind of a show Game of Thrones was about.
That Dany would put the city to torch was painfully obvious in retrospect, every bit as Ned losing his head and the Red Wedding. But while the people could forgive the previous stuff as bumps on the path to the final destination, they were not that forgiving when it came to the final destination itself. It was just that Dany snapped that was unforgivable, but the fact that very notion of what is 'good' and what is 'bad' was completely turned on it's head. Extended harrowing shots of civilians being burned and women being raped and killed really drive the point home.
You don't have the 'good guys' that you identify with suddenly rampage and start committing war crimes, even though this is pretty much what happens in war. It is very difficult to be like Jon and keep your emotions in check when a hated enemy that messed up your life for ages is suddenly on their backs. This ALONE is what would make in my book Game of Thrones to be the best series in history. I just hope that many of the audience after their initial anger has subsided can learn to appreciate it.
This was genuinely a funny read
It wasnt the "casual fans", it was anyone with a fully functioning brain who expected a bit of subtlety and nuance and, not "HA YOU IDIOT YOU THOUGHT TH CHARACTER WAS GOOD BUT NO SHE IS WESTEROSI HITLER"
If you like the episode, that's good for you, but it's really not that deep. It's not that people just cant accept Daenerys going "mad", it's that's its cartoonishly stupidly executed by people who wanted to move on and make star wars movies to get disney money, and especially to anyone who has read the source material it is laughably bad
@Lee Ara Ah... reasons... that's a funny word. Do you care to tell me, what is the reason for this show? What was the point? What was the message?
Was the message of this show (and books) that violence is awesome and revenge is satisfying and fulfilling?
Was the message of the show that a good ruler needs to have the right kind of heritage?
Was the message of this show that identifying with characters is the most important part of a story?
Was the message of this story that evil people are easily identifiable and that good people are always moral and just or that you can even categorize people unequivocally into good and evil people?
Dany's arc was developed for the entire show. You just didn't see it.
@@SerbAtheist ah yes, nothing says "writing style of well known romantic George Martin" like "Ha you idiots, now Daenerys is a genocidal fascist and she is going to kill half a million people for literally no reason and you should have seen it coming because she killed slavers and enemies at war and she was impulsive"
Obviously something similar will happen in the books, the difference is in the books, there is good material to set it up. Material the showrunners decided to cut out for some god forsaken reason. It's genuinely impressive how much they butchered Tyrion
I love your reactions haha!!! This is great. Keep up the good work!
And Sansa knows Dany isn't the rightful heir, makes sense for her to want Jon on the throne.
"Danaerys...I never expected her to do something to this extent." Really? You couldn't fathom something like this happening from the build up of season one? GRRM doesn't write about princesses and fairy tales and heroes... (he does but) he writes about humans that we know in our world and the theme he touched on with Dany through the whole thing is breaking the "legacy" of her father...and at the end she didn't. Executed poorly by the show, but from a pure plot perspective...you had to of seen this coming a little bit.
i don't know if you read book but she is so much more hero potential in books than is show
@@queenxx1690 I did not, but I bet she does. And I also bet GRRM was leading her down a similar path, but you know...on a word document where you don't spend a zillion dollars and thousands of man hours. They just ran out of time and rushed it all in the end. I think Dany was always headed down the "Mad Queen" path from her conception as a character. This was just an execution problem by the show. It happened so fast. It was 72 hours of television up to this point. 69.5hrs were dedicated to building Dany up as the hero/savior you mentioned. Her turn seemingly happened in 1.5.
I'll use a film reference as an example. 'Joker'. Very well balanced villain arc that had proper pacing and storytelling. We are shocked at his turn, but it made perfect sense (in a sick sort of way of course). With Dany it was just too fast.
@@NickSquirt i think she will be more like tragic hero than villan because we have toooo many villains already and only few heros I don't know if you knew this but Tyrion was suppose to be villan in tue books after he murder his father and Shae, Jamie told him truth that he was hiding from him about his first wife (she is not in show) he got angry and told ge is going to murder then all and if they see him as monster he will be one so he is villain btw Grrm told he is and in book Daenerys in warned from few character Tyrion too so villain being warned about other villain sound weird
That scream as Sandor charges his brother and they both go over 😢
The way I would have fixed this series is by making Daenerys attack king's landing earlier. The Night King was supposed to be the Big Bad and finale of this series.
I'd make Dany attack Kings Landing way back in season 7. Due to the wildfire stored all across the city the whole city gets destroyed by accident, including Cersei . Everyone then hates Dany, and it becomes a civil war against this new Dragon Queen. She becomes a tyrant naturally and organically, rather than how they did it here.
Then at some point she becomes aware of the whitewalker threat, and helps the North, which forms an alliance with them. Dany takes the throne, respected and feared but not loved, ruling over a divided kingdom, becoming the tyrant she never wanted to be.
She gets what she wants, at a cost. Far far better ending to her character.
Instead she just goes mental while Cersei sips wine for 2 seasons.
I’m gonna say this, as someone who supported Daenerys even during this mess - this was /definitely/ not a big switch to flip for her, and I was not AT ALL surprised she snapped. When this first hit, I remember the rage and betrayal a lot of people felt over it- there is a video out there still, I’m sure, that cuts together right as she’s looking at the red keep EVERY INSTANCE in her life that led to that “you know what? Actually, yeah. No mercy.” Drogo’s illness. Rhaego being stillborn and used to bring Drogo back the way he was. Her having to smother him to death. Betrayed by her handmaiden and having her children kidnapped and kept from her. Choosing to kill Kraznys and take her Unsullied was the first time she tasted control. Real control. It felt good. And I will say, I think that point specifically started to display that dichotomy that she has. She’s compassionate and kind, but ruthless in her executions of what she deems just. It didn’t surprise me at all, after everything she lost trying to do “the right thing”, why do it anymore? Had she taken her dragons to King’s Landing on day 1, parked them at the dragon pit and said “you have forty five minutes to vacate the red keep or it’s going to be GONE” this wouldn’t have happened. None of this lol
Goddddddddd it was tragic but DAMN was it near-unavoidable and unfortunately sort of clearly very much a probability
Lol and like not to blow up my own shit- but as someone who does deal with a bit of mental illness and emotional instability myself- I see myself a LOT in Daenerys. I really do care about people and I love to help them, and I actively hate those who cause other people harm and I DO sometimes find myself wanting to hurt those people for the sake of the abused. I cannot say this reaction isn’t something that I in this same position would not also find myself doing if all this bullshit happened to me the way it did. You kill my wounded child as we are returning home, from saving the world that YOU ALSO PROMISED TO HELP WITH, try to kill me, and my only child, and my entire support system. My advisor (right as he would be at this point honestly) is trying to kill me after he promised to tell me to my face if there was some bullshit I wasn’t doing, WHOM I BELIEVED WOULD, the man I’m in love with is rejecting me now too. I’m alone. I want to be loved. That’s all I’ve had, and now that I’m here THIS has happened. If this pure hearted man can’t love me. Fine. Let it be fear he respects.
Then you behead my best fucking friend, my SISTER, just because you fucking could, in front of me and the man she loves, and just smile. Bitch I don’t care if I do get fucking shot out of the sky, I am destroying EVERYTHING you built too, right back.
@@andrewgautron4404 'I actively hate those who cause other people harm and I DO sometimes find myself wanting to hurt those people for the sake of the abused'
And this is how ALL propaganda works, exploiting this impulse by telling you there is this URGENT moral issue that needs to be resolved NOW and if you don't support this resolution quickly, you're one of the bad guys!
15:15...Tyrion's conflicts coming true........Hmmm again Sansa understood; People may not like how she does things, but the character grew and she grew wiser.
Sansa is a moron this final season. Sansa let's Jon's secret out. Sansa knows Dany is going to realize it was her which will create a huge rift between them. Not that she didn't already cause a rift with her disrespect to the woman who came to save her home.
How does this help her gain independence for the North? If Jon doesn't kill Dany at the end, there is a very good chance Dany kills Sansa. At the very least she would not get the North's independence.
Remember when Littlefinger and Varys would constantly disrespect Tywin to gain his favor? No? Because that never happened because that is stupid.
@@tahireed Sansa made the right decision for the north and her house and actually for Westeros.
She gave Dany good advice and point blank to your entitled goddess told her the north won't bow.
The rift between Dany and Jon actually started before Sansa knew, you just don't want to see or acknowledge it.
Bran tells Sam who told Jon , And Jon telling her he's Rhaegar's son and learning he's been shagging his aunt all well before Sansa and Arya even knew.
@@pjfsr7024 You say Sansa is smart and made the right decision without any reasoning. Where is your arguement?
I'm not talking about the rift between Dany and Jon. I'm talking about the rift between her and the North as a whole. Sansa's decision to let the secret out caused the biggest problem/rift and almost got herself killed while destroying the North's chance at independence. How is hurting yourself and your cause smart?
Dany is entitled because she expects loyalty from the people whose lives and home she is saving? Omg how crazy of her. She is just the biggest jerk ever.
The only entitled one is Sansa. She has absolutely nothing to offer as a leader. She has not accomplished anything. Littlefinger, Brienne and Jon have all done her dirty work for her. Plus, Jon is the one who brought the North together. She is genuinely useless but feels entitled just like Dany. At least Dany has actually accomplished significant things that changed hundreds of thousands of people's lives for the better.
@@tahireed Dany is entitled she didn't come north for the goodness of the north, she came expecting them to bow and kiss her ring.
Sansa based her decision on what she knows, what she saw and what's best for the north , her house and her family.
Sansa saw what Dany did before she even entered the courtyard of Winterfell; Sansa point blank in E2 asked her pointed questions that we to this day ask people who say they want to lead us and Dany's action was to pull her hand away and give snake eyes.
Sansa didn't do anything ? BS ignore the scenes and facts all you want.
Sansa kept Jon's fragile alliance together, had her sister being annoying and also manipulated by LF, dealt with House Bolton and Littlefinger etc........
While Jon was on Dragonstone, almost getting himself killed for a second time and shagging his Aunt : Sansa prepared the north for war, had the forges running, armour made, weapons made, trenches were being dug, trebuchets built, food stored, areas cleared for the troops and whatever Jon brings north.
Jon didn't do it Sansa did, she ran half a country, fought for her people, her house and her family and gave Tyrion a valid and more experienced person for Westeros who proved himself a leader and one people actually gravate to and; he's family!
Sansa gave Dany and Jon good advice, they didn't listen and Dany lost a close friend and advisor, her fleet and her second dragon.
Dany made many mistakes in the series, failed to take advice that would have helped her some of which were rather mundane, but truthful, like know the people, lands and customs of those you wish to rule; Dany never did.
The Vale went north for Sansa, Theon went north FOR Sansa, the north loves and respects Sansa and the Starks, she prepared and protected her people and land as best as anyone could.
Sansa tried to put Jon on the throne which is what this reactor and 90% plus wanted, just didn't happen.
It's called a game of thrones; you win or you die.
Dany died, Cersei died the remaining Starks are alive.
@@pjfsr7024 Litetally the only thing you mentioned that shows she is a good leader was her running the North while Jon was gone. Which isn't impressive at all. Also, she never fought for herself or her people! Arya gives Sansa a knife in 8x3 and moronic Sansa says "Derp. I dont know how to use this. Derp." Sansa has never fought a day in her life. EVERYONE ELSE DOES IT FOR HER. She literally hides with the kids while Dany is actually fighting during the short night. What are you even talking about? She almost got Jon killed in BoB by not telling him about the Vale. Absolutely stupid but I'm sure you have an excuse for that as well.
It is 1000000% irrelevant why Dany has come to save the North. Because she is here, Sansa and her family now have a fighting chance. Period. The level of disrespect you have to have to be unnecessarily confrontational with the person who is saving you and your people is staggering. Dany greets Sansa warmly and Sansa acts like a bitch. That is stupid and not how you help your cause in the "game of thrones".
Sansa didn't help that fragile alliance by being confrontational in front of the North when she told Jon to take away those family houses from the traitors. She almost broke the North's alliance with Dany by being confrontational and letting the secret out. She has learned nothing from LF and how to properly play the game.
You keep focusing on what she wants rather than how she is going about it. HOW you try to achieve your goals is critical. Being confrontational with allies is not how you handle business in the game of thrones where you either live or die. Littlefinger and Varys were huge examples of this. Sansa is a braindead idiot that thinks being a bitch to Dany is going to help her achieve her goals. Sansa is disrespectful when they first meet and continues to be when she should be trying to gain Dany's favor. That's what smart people do. Sansa does the opposite because she is too stupid to realize her actions will work against the exact goals she is trying to achieve.
Again, HOW Sansa goes about trying to achieve her goals is insanely stupid. Like I said, if Jon doesn't kill Dany at the end (something there is no way she could predict) what happens between Dany and the North? Sansa would have affectively done everything to make the Queen hate and not trust her ensuring her death or all out war. Basically, Sansa is so dumb she almost started another war right after their war with Cersei.
Dany's actress did not know she did all that.. she was on a green screen and the directors did not tell her she killed all the civilians.. she found out when she was with the some friends for a watch party.. she never saw the "finished" footage until then
This is conspiracy theory bullsh*t. Emilia herself reported being in complete shock after she read S8 scripts and having to walk around to compose herself.
The bells basically caused her psychotic break, just like her father.
Her father's descend into madness took years, it wasnt just "poof im evil now"
@@jake4524 They say his diagnosis was paranoid schizophrenia
@@jake4524 watch the show again my guy and take the Dany colored glasses of when you do.
Oh Dany... Sansa didn't kill Varys YOU did, Sansa gave good advice YOU and Jon said NO !
All your losses are on your decisions......If you listened to Sansa, maybe Missandei and Rhaegal still be alive along with Varys.
I really hope as soon as you finish watching and finishing the Game of Thrones series. Follow the House of Dragons series to understand and learn more about the history of Westeros and the causes that led to the downfall of House Targaryen and the destruction of the Targaryen dragons.😉
Daenerys had already been dangerous for some time. There are certain hints about Targaryen madness, if I remember correctly Barristan Selmy talks to her about it. When she's in Essos, she may be a liberator, but she repays exactly the same cruelty to her enemies. That's not a good quality for a ruler.... Tywin says something, though I don't remember if in the series or the novels, about a king having to be strong but merciful to his enemies when they surrender. The problem is that the showrunners focused so much on establishing Daenerys as a heroine, as a "good" character (being that in the novel NO ONE is completely good or completely bad), that when she takes this turn, it seems very improvised and pointless.
A beautiful reaction, as always. I have to admit that while by this point I was no longer interested in the series, seeing the end of some of the characters really touches me.
Arya killed 3 generations of a family and fed a man his own sons. But those are good qualities and not madness
Sansa fed an unarmed prisoner to dogs. She executed an umarmed nobleman right in court without a proper trial
Robb hanged a young watcher who was forced to watch and hanged him last to torture him most
Jon hanged a kid
I have no issues with calling Dany evil but hate people who dont hold other characters including Starks to same standards
Upset Arya didnt die here. The way they gave that girl god mode was ridiculous.
Anyways seeing Kings Landing Burn like that was glorious.
Go back to Season 1 and listen to Drogo’s angry speech. She did exactly what he wanted to do.
go back to season 6 episode 6, when she gave her khalasar the exact same speech, except she removed the killing innocents, raping and enslaving.
@@Nihilanth Yeah, just after she murdered all of their leaders.
there was foreshadowing of Dany going mad, it's just it wasn't enough, the writers wrapped it up so quickly, we didn't get to see it.
@@boodyjacob9322 you mean the one who were threatening to gang rape her? so she wasn't supposed to defend herself? i see.
@@Nihilanth They backed down after they knew that she was a wife of a former Khal.
I didn't say the khalasar was good people, all I'm saying is you're talking as if they listened to her out of respect, they merely listened to her out of fear of what she might do to them.
@@boodyjacob9322 wow and you're talking as if you didn't pay attention to season 6 Dany storyline, at all.
"they backed down" yeah, that's why they let her go, right?
the Dosh Khaleen warned Dany that it was for the Khals to decide what were they going to do with Dany since she broke their "laws" as a widow of a khal, and that she would need to pray because they would do something bad against her. (not to say how they were literally whipping her back in the way to Vaes Dothraki).
when Dany implied that they should follow her, the khals started to throwing insults and threats (khal Moro was going towards her) and she defended herself.
the dothraki follow strength above all, dany killed 6 khals in one take and came through the flames, unharmed.
the only thing the dothraki fear is open water, they ain't afraid of a person who was about to give them what they like: conquest.
they cheered and remained loyal to the end cause Dany was the khals of khals (the prophecy about the stallion who mounts the world and would united the Dothraki into a single khalasar, was about her)
just stop trying forcing this "mad queen" shit, y'all keep trying to find reasons and hints for that even in scenes like that, seriously...
38:23 The way she shouted back at her….🥺
Jon's character in season 8, "I don't want it" "She's my Queen"
In regards to her dragon getting shot down it's not out of the question that they hid well.its also normal that shes not good at battle tactics and not paying attention.
46:16 I did , never like her from the first season, knew she was gonna go mad , she was very unhinged , she was nothing like the book dany from the beginning itself.
Till season 3 she was fine..I always knew her character would have a tragic ending..she doesn't need a throne she always needed a home a place where she can belong.. I think her desperation to get the throne was due to the fact that she doesn't have home or people that she can call her own..
38:57 Look at that perfectly good dragon skull to hide under. It's actually a stand-in for the writers, as it once held a brain but now no longer does.
I feel like Dany going mad was always hinted at throughout the series. What they did to Missandei was the final straw. Whenever I feel bad about what she did, I remember that those were the same people that cheered the beheading of Ned Stark. Then I feel better.
I hear you, it's easy to think that. But for all we know every single person who was at the beheading are the few who survived. We are talking about a million small folk who have absolutely no idea what's really going on. The only source of info is what they are fed. So in hindsight, we would probably think Ned was a traitor as well. But I understand what you mean
It literally wasn't stop defending D&D
You feel better at the sight of women being raped and slaughtered and children being burned alive? My, what a psycho.
@@SerbAtheist Aww, you're *that* guy in the comment section. Congrats.
If the story had ended with Dany going "mad" as in genocidal maniac kind, then everyone would say, yeah that makes sense, but if the story ended in a different direction and she became a ruthless yet benevolent ruler instead, everyone would still go, yeah that makes sense. What does that tell you? It tells us that those 2 goofs never did enough to setup that storyline for it to have a properly paced pay off and reasonable conclusion at the end. It was a character assassination plain and simple. Foreshadowing is not how you do character development. It never has.
"she is my queen"
Jon is basically Hodor now.
Tyrion slowly throws people under the bus........
Slllooooowwwllllyyyyyyy
But yes
With Dany...I could buy her going 'mad' eventually...they sewed the seeds throughout the years. She's very driven, very self- righteous, very uncompromising. She's scared about the Jon situation and she's feeling lonely due to the icy reception she got at Winterfell. I could see this being done well if they had another season or two, and we'd probably sympathise with her more. But not the way they wrote it here. THIS was just character assassination. It was forced. It was so rushed and unbelievable that it literally yanks you out of the story because you just know the writers didn't give a shit anymore. Jamie was another character assassination too. He'd come so far only to revert back to his season one self at the VERY LAST MINUTE. I believe he rang the bells, even if we don't see it onscreen, but saying what he did to Tyrion, then going back to Cersei? Ek.
Yes i agree with you but when you watch the whole series again then you can actually see she was a bit mad from the beginning as she watched her brother die without sheding a tear and burned various people like Sam's parents. I do believe this season her character was hurried a bit but she was always like this
Yeah would have been ok with the ending If the build up was proper and not rushed I never liked most of the Targaryens ..but d&d was too in rush to be done with GoT and start their star wars project..they got their karma thankfully when they lost the project 👏😂
@@manpreetkorr3443 Oh, I agree! Like I said, the seeds were sewn and I could see this ending happening for her character. I think I knew from season 5 that she'd be the villain eventually. But it was just rushed to the point that there wasn't even any sympathy left for her. It got boiled down to 'She Targaryen. She go mad' rather than a believable devolution into her warped sense of justice and entitlement.
@@BrightNeonBrilliancy yes i wish they just had made another season then the ending would seem appropriate
'THIS was just character assassination.'
'I knew the kid, he decapitaded kittens, got into fights, lashed out at people, wanted to rule the whole block... but he never killed anyone! THIS was just character assassination!'
This is how you sound. The denial is strong with you. No, it wasn't character assassination, but character actualisation. The mask finally fell from Dany's face.
The surprise fleet with scorpions killing Rhaegal was stupid.
Scorpions at Kings landing suddenly not being threat at all was stupid.
Dany deciding to slaughter a city was...not convincing.
All of these could have been so easily solved - by having scorpions at Kings landing kill Rhaegal, giving Dany reason to snap and start killing.
You do not need a reason for Dany to "snap". Stop trying to defend the indefensible, Dany chose fear over love on her own terms.
You are right. Many people have lost more than her. The difference is that she has dragons, and the throne (she had been told from birth) was her birthright. Daenerys was also correct, though. The people of Westeros had no love for her. Why spare people that are only going to betray her anyway? They would only follow Jon, who betrayed her as well! I noticed the green flames of wildfire... her grandfather Mad King Aerys had hidden it throughout the city so he could "burn them all!" I wonder if the Mad King was channeling his granddaughter when he claimed to be the dragon and tried to "Burn them all!"? It makes sense, since Targaryens are known to have a touch of "green sight!" It is why they were spared the fall of Valyria. I am very invested in seeing your reactions to the series finale is, having followed you through the entire journey!!
Aerys was her father though, not her grandfather.
Also, for someone never shutting up about her 'birthright' and how she is the rightful queen she really didn't stand by all that right when she learned who the actual rightful heir was - Jon. Not just because he was a man but also because he was older than her and the true heir of the crown prince. It didn't matter whether the people loved her or not - she wasn't the rightful queen after all and she did not like that. She acted like a spoiled brat asked to give up her favourite toy to its actual owner.
My favorite character died here...
KingSlayer Jaime Lannister ❤👑
I like how Varys being one of the smartest person in westeros meant nothing in that episode
Sometimes you can be the smartest and still get your head chopped off
just this epsiode?
the man is being dumb since he came back with her lol
he and tyrion, two of the worst advisors anyone could have
The meaning of Varys in this episode to us as viewers: He is the voice of the realm, voice of the people. By killing him, it sent us the message that the people were not safe anymore and we could expect 100% what Dany did later in this episode.
He was out of options and desperately trying to prevent the coming massacre he saw and Tyrion didn’t want to see coming. The time for discretion and subtlety was done lol.
just because you are the smartest doesn’t mean you’ll not make a mistake or lose eventually…
Cersei "I Am The Baddest Most Powerful And Beautiful Queen That Ever Lived!".
Daenerys "Hold My Starbucks".
I would also personally would like to have a word with the writers and directors. There was no need to make the 'Mad Queen' after everything she had been through in life and for the god-damned throne.
I know after eight seasons of rooting for Daenerys we saw her quest for power as a plus but ignored the ultimate cost of such a quest. Most fans hated this turn of events but it exactly what George RR Martin had in mind from the beginning. Ultimate power can corrupt the best of us. Danny went mad with revenge and also there was the possibility Jon might someday change his mind and take the throne away from her, as that is really all she cared about. Go back and watch for the signs of her madness, they are there.
Plus yes I think George RR Martin was just trolling us all..
Oh you guys rooted for this violence and death every action that Dany took and then he ripped the rug out here you got your violence you wanted it, perhaps making a statement ya knows... and he loves subverting tropes.
Still the writing and how got there is dogshit sooo bad blatantly & rushed cannot be ignored by masses.
@@SomeGirlSomewhere Absolutely rushed. They needed to expand it into 2 seasons so the fans would see the corruption of power, build slowly. End season 8 with defeat of Night King and take another season to watch Danny consolidate her power and make everyone nervous about her. I also would have totally changed the death of Cersi. That was also a rush job. Nobody wanted to kill her because of the backlash of also killing her unborn baby. But if it was stretched over a season she could have the baby, Jamie could rescue it and died saving it and then Cersi should have been flamed by the dragon defiantly standing in her tower. But then what do I know? The budget was only so much, and HBO wanted it to end, and the showrunners wanted to move on.
@@garymussell6543 I had read that HBO wanted to keep it going and the writers wanted to move on so it was them two specifically ...
and you know what they were fantastic at adapting they just can't write to save their life ha without source material...
and I guess that's the problem of selling your art before you finish writing the books...
but yeah you can't have like detailed nuanced writing and dialoge yearrrs and then just like go to bullet points at the end insane rushing ....
though we all love it you can't just ignore it it's that terrible was like fan fiction lol
@@garymussell6543 And you know I think a lot of popular shows and movies have the problem once something becomes too aware of itself the writing changes as well.
Soo many good shows after season 3 4 go to hell or side note~ever notice how a new showrunner can obliterate some great shows lol.
I recall Lost girl was soo good then new showrunner and vibe and just essence gone after season like 3 ha. Same actors everything.. crazy how some formulas and ppl together just form magic.
David & Dan messed up the number of Dothraki at Kings Landing, cause most them died at Winterfell charging against the undead army, only a few of them came back before the horde appeared out of the darkness. There should've only been a handful of Dothraki at Kings Landing if any. By Season 8 David & Dan couldn't have cared less about Game of Thrones.
I don’t know why people were so upset when Dany went made queen. I always expected it and would’ve been really disappointed if she hadn’t. Throughout the entire series, all the clues were there that this is where she’d end up doing. With no advisors to temper her true nature and Jon Snow basically dumping her, there was no one left to guide her.
Ultimately I don’t mind dany going “mad king” I just don’t believe how they got her there.
Your one of the first reactors that mentioned that they saw that Dani was slowly going mad. All the personal losses over a relatively short time just added up and she snapped. She had no actual connection to Kings Landing. those people didn't mean anything to her. Why not kill them? I thought they actually did this transgression pretty dam well. From the very beginning she was showing signs of being blood thirsty and "my way or the highway." Her redeeming thing was she was letting her advisors talk her out of most of the really bad things. Her first reaction to everything going against her has always been kill it. At first she I think really wanted to free the world from slavery. But as she became more powerful, her number one goal shifted from freeing every one to ruling everyone. It was a subtle but it was there. She didn't care Jon was the rightful ruler. She would have kill him too if he got in her way. The people who didn't see this coming or didn't like it happening, were just in denial.
As I said before. the dragon not seeing the ships was the worst thing they did in the entire show. It didn't ruin it for me or anything. Just it was very stupid and easily could have been done better. f
She had no actual connections to the Masters of Meereen, Astapor or Yunkai. those people didn't mean anything to her. Why not kill them? They even did worse than the people of KL, they sold and tortured slaves, why didn't she go mad then and kill them all?
You say she snapped because she lost Missaindei and Rhaegal in the span of a week or so but if that's the case then why didn't she snap when she lost her brother Viserys, or her husband and child in one day, or her closest maidens and blood riders of the Khalaser, or Jorah (exiled), or Barristen, or her allies from Highgarden and Dorne, or Viserion. But no, now is the time to snap apparently. You say her redeeming quality is listening to her advisors but what about the time Tyrion advised her not to risk her life to save 7 strangers at the North, or the time her advisors strategy lost her all her allies and stranded the unsullied at Casterly rock.
If the story had ended with Dany going "mad" as in genocidal maniac kind, then everyone would say, yeah that makes sense, but if the story ended in a different direction and she became a ruthless yet benevolent ruler instead, everyone would still go, yeah that makes sense. That tells us that those 2 goofs never did enough to set up that storyline for it to have a properly paced pay off and a reasonable conclusion at the end. It was a character assassination at the end of the day. Subtle? more like nonexistent unless you only see what you want to see. Foreshadowing is not how you do character development. It never has and it never should be.
@@BhBc8f8 Her having no connections dosn't matter because her whole mantra the entire time she was over there was to "free the slaves." From people that meant nothing to her. She had no connections to the slaves either. Why should she care about them and not the slavers? So why should she be so eager or willing to kill people that meant nothing to here but spare the leaders of people she hated that killed her family in Westros? Unless it was her base nature to be a killer. Almost EVERY TME her first reaction was to kill people. And her advisors talked her out of it. Now sometimes her advisors were wrong when she listened to them or she came up with a better answer than the advisors AFTER they talked her out of killing people. And she became to believe her own B.S. more and more and more to the point she believed she ALWAYS knew what was best. So when listening to her advisors got all the people that were close to her killed in a VERY short period of time, she snapped and went back to her base personality of being a killer.
As to why she didn't snap at those earlier times is because she wasn't fully into believing that she was "always right" mode yet. She still trusted her advisors a lot at that point. She still trusted Varies at that point and hadn't killed him. Tyrion hadn't yet failed her again getting Melisandre saved from being killed. Remember when Tyrion came and told he there was a trader he thought it was Jon Snow right away. She never thought that any of her advisors would betray her until Melisandre died. It was always building up to this since season one. The problem was they so rushed the last two season, they were not able to properly build it up. Like they were doing before.
@@boki1693 What about her first reaction to hearing that Drogon killed one of the Meereen's daughters? Who did she kill then? Instead we saw her put what she considers to be her own children in chains and locked them underground. Which tells the audience that she values the lives of innocent citizens over the well being of her own children, so where is this base killer nature then? Why didn't she tell the guy to f off and let Drogon keep doing his thing? and why did she say "I will litter the city with the blood of my enemies but not the blood of innocents"? Maybe because her having a "killer nature" is total bs and inconsistent with the character's writing. And since when is killing your enemies considered to be a bad thing in Game of Thrones. Robert did it to dethrone the Mad King, Stannis did it all the time, Tywin did it all the time, Robb did it all the time, Arya does it all the time but when Dany does it she has "a killer nature"?
"Remember when Tyrion came and told he there was a trader he thought it was Jon Snow right away"
You mean when she accurately deduced who betrayed her trust? She told Jon not to tell Sansa but he disobeyed her and told her anyway, who then told Tyrion, who then told Varys. If anything that just reminds us of how intelligent she is but apparently she's "mad" and has "lost her marbles". Like a woman on her period.
"The problem was they so rushed the last two season, they were not able to properly build it up"
Uh yes, that's literally the point 1.2M petitioners are making. The story was rushed and makes no sense. HBO greenlit 4 more seasons of 40 episodes but those clowns rejected the offer and wanted to wrap it up in 2 seasons due to fatigue and burn out. Which is understandable but instead of showing humility and passing on the torch with grace, they showed incompetence and arrogance trying to prove that GRMM isn't the only one who deserves credit for the show's success. Pride truly does come before a fall and they fell hard.
@@BhBc8f8 Well, first, I always heard they rushed the last two seasons so they could start working on the new Star Wars movie that was in production. Then ironically they got fired from it almost right away. LOL. Also, the burn out excuse makes no sense to me. Not saying because you said it but because they said it. There is no law the next season had to be in one year. The Sopranos often took more than one year between seasons. And I do agree they were total tools for how they handled all that and they deserve all the negative attention they got. And all the stuff you said I have no problem with. But I also say I don't think the last 2 seasons were as bad as people like to say they are. Not as good yes. But not horrible either. And please, it's just my opinion. Your examples why your going to say they are bad I have heard a 100x and your not going to change my opinion of it.
"Instead we saw her put what she considers to be her own children in chains and locked them underground. Which tells the audience that she values the lives of innocent citizens over the well being of her own children, so where is this base killer nature then?"
True but when she came back to the city after Tyrion had released them, she didn't put them back in chains did she? I think your missing my point. Dani was evolving the entire show. She was trying NOT to be a killer because she wanted everyone to see her as good. And she wanted to be good. But when the shit hits the fan, her first reaction is to kill the threat. And with the little kid the dragon ate, that wouldn't set off her killer instinct because the little kid didn't threaten her and was no threat to her. She was the threat. So there for she would be more inclined not to go to her base instinct.
As more people close to her got killed by threats to her, it eroded her ability to control her instinct to kill. And enhanced the feeling she was always right. Hell, I forgot who said it but someone said she was a killer because they know a killer when they see one. Looked it up. It was Arya that said that about Dany.
All I am saying is that I was not surprised by what Dany did at the end. They were hinting at this from the beginning. Now if you want to say they somewhat botched the delivery of it in the last two season, ok. It could have been better but it wasn't surprising or terrible to me that she did it.
@@boki1693 Damn sounds like you're projecting a little bit. Did Emilia Clarke offend you or something. Idk, to me you speak as though you alone have access to her inner thoughts. Dany has never once said “I want people to see me as good”, or anything resembling that interpretation or line of dialogue, you’re just implying and assuming that probably due to personal biases. And the Dragons were young then and didn’t know any better, but now they do and they listen to her more. Also went she got back to Meereen, the city was under attack so she used them to fend off the attack, when she got to Dragonstone she had them roam the cliffs away from people, and when she got to Winterfell she had them on the mountains away from people, so not sure what you’re referring to.
"Looked it up. It was Arya that said that about Dany."
Yes it was Arya, the thousands of memes from that line were very memorable. Arya says "she knows a killer when she sees one" after seeing Deanerys slaughter an entire city on Dragonback. Yeah no shit sherlock. Meanwhile you baked 2 brothers in a pie, fed them to their father and murdered his entire House but okay.
"It could have been better but it wasn't surprising or terrible to me that she did it."
Well i for one found it very surprising and a "butchering of her character" like Indian said. Would have to agree to disagree about the last 2 seasons, the cinematography, acting, set design, computer graphics, costume, music, and so on was 10/10, the writing however was compete garbage. Yeah let’s risk a Dragon to kidnap a wight even though wights can turn in castle black if not burned quickly and then parlay with Cersei because she is sooo honorable. Sure let’s have Dany kinda forget about the enemies that she came here to fight and let’s chuck the laws of physics out the window while we’re at it by sneaking up on a Dragon 1000 ft in the air, ignoring Dany, and sniping it 3 times on target 300 ft away from behind a hill. *throws script* Madness, madness and stupidity.
When Ned died there was no outrage because it made sense. When the red wedding happened, no one complained because it made sense. When Daenerys went row by row burning a million people that had already surrendered to her and not Cersei in the red keep because she went "mad", it didn't make any sense hence the public backlash. As a writer, when this many people (1.2M petitioners last I checked) are this confused by your script, then make no mistake, it is your fault. Your incompetence is on full display. When GRRM completes this storyline, notice that there will be no silly petitions, public backlash or poor reviews because all character motivations will be consistent, all the setup will be properly constructed and predictable, and the arcs will be logical and compelling because that is the standard of good writing. Cheers.
Davos at Blackwater: I've never known Bells to mean surrender.
This episode is an enormous and terrible shit show. Looks amazing, but that's about it.
Sending you a virtual pint across the pond. Lord knows I needed to drink after I first saw this episodes I needed 🥃 or 3…