dude!! i just did this with a guarder sp110 and im at 325 with .25's and my ROF has gone up tremendously...getting a chrono soon to test it more thanks a bunch!!
on an 11.1 and that weak of a spring I can see you getting pre engagement. I would say starting off with an m120 spring and shortstroking down to your correct fps would be the solution.
could you possibly make a video on how to reduce overspin besides shortstroking. I know its the best way but in my particular build shortstroking is going to cause problems.
If you shortstroke on the piston it helps to lighten the piston and prevent pre engagement but not totally necessary. Take 3 teeth off your sector and then try it with the m100 and see what's up. Your shs spring might be falsely rated.
One more question: i read that if you eliminate 1-2-3theeth from the selector gear ( from the delayer side of gear ) you need to eliminate the same ammount of theeth from the end of piston rack..is that true? There are lot of people who say yes and other who say is reccomend but not forced :P
I run active breaking in a 47rps DSG setup, the motor doesn't heat up more than without active breaking really. Active breaking won't prevent pre-engagement btw, it'll only prevent overspin. If your motor gets abnormally hot with AB, then either something is wrong in your build or with the mosfet, or the mosfet is a really cheap low quality one.
Håkon T. Or you have a ssg build with a 16tpa or lower motor. But no matter what motor you run AB will wear down the motor brushes and the commutator a lot quicker, at least according to Louis brill (owner of brill armory)
I ran AB in a 40rps SSG setup for two years, the brushes had normal wear. The only thing I've noticed is that the motor will get hotter if you fire rapidly in semi-auto. I did build that gearbox with "passive breaking", it had an M130 spring and 2 teeth short stroke, so that may have lessened the negative effects of the active breaking. The mosfet is also computerized, so it probably has slightly gentler active breaking than more basic AB mosfets.
Yea, its the feathering the trigger in semi which AB will cause problems with. If you have a good AB mosfet and a good motor though, the effects will be lessened.
This is really helpfull, thanks :) Im thinking about using a M115 progressive spring and short stroke my piston and complement with a hi speed engine and 16:1 gears. Thoughts? im more used to slow rpm and hi FPS because im in a supportfire team but i want to have a good gun on CQB games aswell :P Do you know anything about progressive springs?? Pro´s vs Con´s Thanks and regards from Sweden //Toby
you're at the edge of getting pre engagement. I would suggest bumping it up to an m120 and shortstroking however many teeth you need to get to your fps limit.
you could? as long as the release tooth is metal though it doesn't really matter. You can short stroke the same amount of teeth on the piston to save weight too but you don't NEED to.
Great video👏 Question: Can i short stroke a stock sector gear? How many teeth should i cut? Thanks more power My set up: -stock gears -M135 spring -11.1v batt -Shs high torque motor
depends how much power you're trying to drop. You can definitely SS a stock gear. Assuming you're trying to get into the 400fps range I would cut 3 to start and see where that puts you
It's not totally necessary. That being said, it doesn't hurt to cut down the weight of your piston to remove more teeth. off the piston too. It's only an issue if you remove piston teeth without removing sector teeth because you exasperate pre engagement issues.
great video. so my stock g&p was shooting ~380 so i down graded the spring to a shs m100 but it was still shooting 395 (i also did compression up grades). so i bought a sp 85 spring and now on semi im getting a lot of double cycles and a lot of lock ups. would this and putting my old spring in fix my problem? if so how many teeth should i cut? i also just another video where they cut the same amount of teeth from the piston. (same side as piston head) thoughts?
Can I short stroke my piston and gear if only the the last tooth on the piston is metal? Because if I removed the metal tooth wouldn't all the other teeth slowly break down?
I run 30rps on a v2 with 11.1. The AOE is corrected with Swiss cheese piston. When I pull half way on semi, it shoots full auto. It only shoots semi when I pull the trigger really back fast. I'm new to a Rps setup. Please help.
i'm new to moding my gearbox. I don't want to crew anything up. I've installed 14:1 gears, a 110 spring and i'm using a shs hs motor. would removing just 1 tooth from the sector make a noticeable improvement in rof, and prevent pre-engagement?
Will i risk PME with the below setup? if so what spring should i use and how much should I SS to get rid of it? -Lonex A1 -sp110 -16:1 gears -11.1v 35-70c -swiss cheased SHS 15t
So I just bought a cyma ak 105 high speed and the semi will shoot burst then go to single or after full auto it goes to single then burst what do I do?
when short-stroking a ported cylinder is there fps lost if the piston is still coming far enough back to pass the port fully? if so why is that? is it because the spring isnt fully compressed ?
Hey! So I just short stroked my VFC M4, I have a standard motor on it, a 7 metal tooth piston and an ASCU unit. The process went well and the gun works great as performance is concerned but there is a strange thing going on. When I fire on full auto after the 5th or 6th shot the gearbox starts to whistle and I don't know if I should be concerned about this...
i was thinking i could have gotten a mis marked spring as well. also how much fps loss am i looking at when removing 3 teeth? hopefully at least 40 right ?
Can you message me on what you do when you build a DSG build? Am looking to build my first DSG with a Siegetek DSG and JG bevel and spur gear but i dont know of anything else to do to make e gun work. Please help!
Question: i've G&P Magpul m4 DMR i use 11.1 1000mAH,stock g&p gear, stock piston (swees cheesed,eliminated 2nd theeth and 3rd) and SP90 (because italian rule want MAX 330FPS). Yesterday my piston got destroyed like: my 4th and 1st theeth get grind with my gear.. Now my question is: is some weird other problem or i need to do this mod on my gears?
I know this is an old video however maybe someone can help me. My fps is normally around 300 fps. However my fps drops after every new mag I run, I load about 80 bbs and the guns shoots 150 fps instead. after about 10 rounds fire it normalizes. Could this be pre- engagement. In other words the nozzle is pull away as the the piston fires resulting in the nozzle just pulling back enough to bleed out the air ? this is after I upgrade the gun with a Mosfet with active braking.
+ShootAirsoftVideos I've run into this issue before. Basically your air nozzle is too loose on your cylinder head and the extra tension of the bbs pushing up on the air nozzle is causing an air leak there for the first couple rounds.
I have a Prometheus SP110, siegetek 14.09 gears, and an 11.1 lipo. I was probably going to short stroke 2-3 teeth off the sector. Will I have to worry about any possible pre engagement in your opinion?
valleyriverarms In my experience removing less then 3 teeth on the release side won't cause any issues unless you've installed a really big tappet delayer chip on the sector gear. Removing too many teeth from the pickup side can actually cause compression issues at very high ROF as the tappet timing will be advanced enough for the sector gear to pull back the tappet plate before the piston is fully forward.
I will first suggest reading the DSG manual the riot has. If you good dsg riotsc manual there's a pdf that you can read through that will tell you everything you need to know about the dsg. I could just spoon feed you a build list but unless you know why after reading the manual, you won't have the understanding you need to actually build a working DSG setup. Message me after you read the manual.
Gotcha, now how exactly do you know if it's pre engaging? I think my gun is but I'm not sure, whenever I shoot it on my 11.1 on semi the piston is visible through the window where the spring guide is, when I shoot it on a 7.4 it's not.
Thanks for the video on an m110 13:1 gears shs high torque I'm getting pre engaging but with an m120 it's not an issue active breaking helped a lot though (thanks you gate titan)
By the way, one or two washers behind the spring holder, usually, are helpful.
The spring has more tension and a shorter way to travel.
dude!! i just did this with a guarder sp110 and im at 325 with .25's and my ROF has gone up tremendously...getting a chrono soon to test it more thanks a bunch!!
on an 11.1 and that weak of a spring I can see you getting pre engagement. I would say starting off with an m120 spring and shortstroking down to your correct fps would be the solution.
could you possibly make a video on how to reduce overspin besides shortstroking.
I know its the best way but in my particular build shortstroking is going to cause problems.
If you shortstroke on the piston it helps to lighten the piston and prevent pre engagement but not totally necessary. Take 3 teeth off your sector and then try it with the m100 and see what's up. Your shs spring might be falsely rated.
One more question: i read that if you eliminate 1-2-3theeth from the selector gear ( from the delayer side of gear ) you need to eliminate the same ammount of theeth from the end of piston rack..is that true? There are lot of people who say yes and other who say is reccomend but not forced :P
Another fix for per-engagment is mosfet with Active Brake (AB for short). Basically it stop the engine immediately when you relase the trigger.
Yeah you can do that.
How well do you like your steaks cooked? cause that's a great way to cook steaks, too.
I run active breaking in a 47rps DSG setup, the motor doesn't heat up more than without active breaking really. Active breaking won't prevent pre-engagement btw, it'll only prevent overspin. If your motor gets abnormally hot with AB, then either something is wrong in your build or with the mosfet, or the mosfet is a really cheap low quality one.
Håkon T. Or you have a ssg build with a 16tpa or lower motor. But no matter what motor you run AB will wear down the motor brushes and the commutator a lot quicker, at least according to Louis brill (owner of brill armory)
I ran AB in a 40rps SSG setup for two years, the brushes had normal wear. The only thing I've noticed is that the motor will get hotter if you fire rapidly in semi-auto. I did build that gearbox with "passive breaking", it had an M130 spring and 2 teeth short stroke, so that may have lessened the negative effects of the active breaking. The mosfet is also computerized, so it probably has slightly gentler active breaking than more basic AB mosfets.
Yea, its the feathering the trigger in semi which AB will cause problems with. If you have a good AB mosfet and a good motor though, the effects will be lessened.
This is really helpfull, thanks :)
Im thinking about using a M115 progressive spring and short stroke my piston and
complement with a hi speed engine and 16:1 gears. Thoughts?
im more used to slow rpm and hi FPS because im in a supportfire team
but i want to have a good gun on CQB games aswell :P
Do you know anything about progressive springs??
Pro´s vs Con´s
Thanks and regards from Sweden //Toby
you're at the edge of getting pre engagement. I would suggest bumping it up to an m120 and shortstroking however many teeth you need to get to your fps limit.
from guarder? yeah. But I have to assume you're talking about something rated in the m110 area.
you could? as long as the release tooth is metal though it doesn't really matter. You can short stroke the same amount of teeth on the piston to save weight too but you don't NEED to.
Great video👏
Question:
Can i short stroke a stock sector gear?
How many teeth should i cut?
Thanks more power
My set up:
-stock gears
-M135 spring
-11.1v batt
-Shs high torque motor
depends how much power you're trying to drop. You can definitely SS a stock gear. Assuming you're trying to get into the 400fps range I would cut 3 to start and see where that puts you
got this thank you so much.@@valleyriverarms
It's not totally necessary. That being said, it doesn't hurt to cut down the weight of your piston to remove more teeth. off the piston too. It's only an issue if you remove piston teeth without removing sector teeth because you exasperate pre engagement issues.
great video. so my stock g&p was shooting ~380 so i down graded the spring to a shs m100 but it was still shooting 395 (i also did compression up grades). so i bought a sp 85 spring and now on semi im getting a lot of double cycles and a lot of lock ups. would this and putting my old spring in fix my problem? if so how many teeth should i cut? i also just another video where they cut the same amount of teeth from the piston. (same side as piston head) thoughts?
Can I short stroke my piston and gear if only the the last tooth on the piston is metal? Because if I removed the metal tooth wouldn't all the other teeth slowly break down?
I'm having issues with overspin, I could use active breaking, but I don't want anymore motor heat for my gun, any other solutions
Always helpful, thanks Ryan!
Will a guarder infinite torque-up motor and SHS 13:1 ratio gears eun into pre-engagement
Not really sure how fast that motor goes. short stroked on an m120 you should be okay I think
hi, have you tried using a boreup set using shortstroke to add more fps?
Nah. I would just push the spring power higher or not short stroke
I run 30rps on a v2 with 11.1. The AOE is corrected with Swiss cheese piston. When I pull half way on semi, it shoots full auto. It only shoots semi when I pull the trigger really back fast. I'm new to a Rps setup. Please help.
Worldadventure Lehderp yep, happened to my stock AEG a while back.
i'm new to moding my gearbox. I don't want to crew anything up. I've installed 14:1 gears, a 110 spring and i'm using a shs hs motor. would removing just 1 tooth from the sector make a noticeable improvement in rof, and prevent pre-engagement?
Will i risk PME with the below setup? if so what spring should i use and how much should I SS to get rid of it?
-Lonex A1
-sp110
-16:1 gears
-11.1v 35-70c
-swiss cheased SHS 15t
Over here m90 in an ARP9 11.1 and I'm going to DSG it, can I short stroke A DSG
you can although I dont know I would suggest it. definitely use a heavier spring though
So I just bought a cyma ak 105 high speed and the semi will shoot burst then go to single or after full auto it goes to single then burst what do I do?
+Dylan Tsunami might be your cutoff lever is worn out.
Great video man. Thanks!
when short-stroking a ported cylinder is there fps lost if the piston is still coming far enough back to pass the port fully? if so why is that? is it because the spring isnt fully compressed ?
As long as it's still clearing the port you shouldn't be losing that much fps. The port is to bleed the air until the proper volume is reached.
eh something like that. Depends on the maker of the spring and what not.
Hey! So I just short stroked my VFC M4, I have a standard motor on it, a 7 metal tooth piston and an ASCU unit. The process went well and the gun works great as performance is concerned but there is a strange thing going on. When I fire on full auto after the 5th or 6th shot the gearbox starts to whistle and I don't know if I should be concerned about this...
whistle? I'm not sure what that could be. Possibly an air leak but that's a weird symptom. Shimming might be a little tight too?
if you're on an 11.1 with a decent discharge you're going to pre engage out the ass. My rule is at least 3 teeth off the sector with an m120+
What teeth do i take off? The front ( next to the clip delayer) or the rear?
haha yes it is a guarder sp110. however core and some other companies now make their own sp110 springs so not just guarder anymore ;)
i was thinking i could have gotten a mis marked spring as well. also how much fps loss am i looking at when removing 3 teeth? hopefully at least 40 right ?
so if i Shortstroke 3 teeth, about what FPS could I get with an M120 spring with .2g BBs?
So if you short stroke 3 teeth on an sp120 your looking at 380 with 0.20 correct?
soooooooo many different factors. My guess is 350 but your mileage may vary
Does PME occurs only on full auto or also in semi auto? Can a gate titan delete PME problems without needing to short stroke?
usually occurs in full auto. gate can't fix PME if your drivetrain is moving too fast for the piston to keep up
Can you message me on what you do when you build a DSG build? Am looking to build my first DSG with a Siegetek DSG and JG bevel and spur gear but i dont know of anything else to do to make e gun work. Please help!
Question: i've G&P Magpul m4 DMR i use 11.1 1000mAH,stock g&p gear, stock piston (swees cheesed,eliminated 2nd theeth and 3rd) and SP90 (because italian rule want MAX 330FPS). Yesterday my piston got destroyed like: my 4th and 1st theeth get grind with my gear..
Now my question is: is some weird other problem or i need to do this mod on my gears?
I know this is an old video however maybe someone can help me. My fps is normally around 300 fps. However my fps drops after every new mag I run, I load about 80 bbs and the guns shoots 150 fps instead. after about 10 rounds fire it normalizes. Could this be pre- engagement. In other words the nozzle is pull away as the the piston fires resulting in the nozzle just pulling back enough to bleed out the air ? this is after I upgrade the gun with a Mosfet with active braking.
+ShootAirsoftVideos I've run into this issue before. Basically your air nozzle is too loose on your cylinder head and the extra tension of the bbs pushing up on the air nozzle is causing an air leak there for the first couple rounds.
valleyriverarms impressive I didn't think about that.
valleyriverarms Indeed it was lose. I have yet to test this but I suspect your right.
will an M120, a lonex A2, and 13:1 gears run into pre engagement?
should be fine
valleyriverarms
what about it with a SHS high torque and an 11.1v lipo?
Less fine. But if you short stroke a tooth or two should be fine
valleyriverarms
cool
For every tooth off the sector should I take one off the piston?
I think I mentioned this in the video but you could. Not totally necessary though.
Right on thanks
I am getting 317 fps with an m95 , how many teeth would I have to remove if I was to use an m120 and keep it under 328 fps
take off one and see how much it drops and then if it's not enough take off another tooth.
I have a Prometheus SP110, siegetek 14.09 gears, and an 11.1 lipo. I was probably going to short stroke 2-3 teeth off the sector. Will I have to worry about any possible pre engagement in your opinion?
Motor is relevant to the equation but after 3 teeth and a light piston assembly you should be fine.
it's a lonex A1
yeah should be okay
yeah but every company does their spring rating differently. Guarders are notoriously hot because they test with .25's.
Will i get a pme on M90 spring and SHS 12:1 gears?
yes lol
yes
"Short stroking it provibes" yeah I also feel pro vibes when modding guns xD. No but great video it helps a lot!
english is hard bro lol glad it helped
isn't an sp110 basically an m120 though?
Is a locked up gearbox a symptom of pre-engagemnet?
nope. usually an issue with bad shimming, mechanical resistance, or a weak motor and battery combo.
yes, no matter what, the release tooth on your piston HAS to be metal. Plastic just can't hold up.
what could happen if you ss the last tooth/teeth?
You mess with the timing of the bb loading into the hop up chamber.
so that would cause mis feeding?
valleyriverarms In my experience removing less then 3 teeth on the release side won't cause any issues unless you've installed a really big tappet delayer chip on the sector gear. Removing too many teeth from the pickup side can actually cause compression issues at very high ROF as the tappet timing will be advanced enough for the sector gear to pull back the tappet plate before the piston is fully forward.
m130? I think? On a prommy m135 ssed 4 teeth I was getting like 410...
Ok never mind, awesome vid!
So this will improve my trigger response then?
A little bit but not the point of short stroking.
I did it, and it worked great
awesome
On a high speed set up with 13:1
How much fps do you lose per tooth removed on the sector?
about 10-isg FPS per tooth
+Julius Platon
Rule of thumb - 1 teeth removed = -10 fps and +1 to bb per sec.
Thanks for the answers.
glad to help :)
I will first suggest reading the DSG manual the riot has. If you good dsg riotsc manual there's a pdf that you can read through that will tell you everything you need to know about the dsg. I could just spoon feed you a build list but unless you know why after reading the manual, you won't have the understanding you need to actually build a working DSG setup. Message me after you read the manual.
Is short stroking necessary when I'm shooting on semi all the time?
not necessarily. If you're pre engaging it's good to fix it anyway though
Gotcha, now how exactly do you know if it's pre engaging? I think my gun is but I'm not sure, whenever I shoot it on my 11.1 on semi the piston is visible through the window where the spring guide is, when I shoot it on a 7.4 it's not.
It's probably not pre engaging. That's just overspin
should i be concerned about overspin?
Nah. It just makes your shots less crisp
How many teeth should i take off?
how much will the fps drop
Benjamin Tran roughly 15 a tooth
Is it always 3 teeth to stroke?
boom_man56 nope
valleyriverarms how do you know how many to do?
without shortstroking,just simple mods
active breaking mosfet, stronger spring, or slower motor are your only real other options.
well thanks I was just wondering because I am I already have a hightourque motor and m130 but still getting overspin
slow it down someway. Maybe with a weaker battery or something
Thanks for the video on an m110 13:1 gears shs high torque I'm getting pre engaging but with an m120 it's not an issue active breaking helped a lot though (thanks you gate titan)
dope glad to help
Guys need help what is that? What is the meaning of short stroke and what is the purpose of this? Just need help guys
drop to probably 300. you risk pre engagement though. Get a fresh sp110 and ss 3 teeth
front
yeah something like that. Again, it's an inexact science depending on a lot of factors.
Gain speed, lose power, pretty pointless
if the goal is speed then no its not. It's also used for fine tuning power levels.
LONG STORY SHORT: short stroking is for higher ROF....took 5 minutes to figuer it out
Will a guarder infinite torque-up motor and SHS 13:1 ratio gears eun into pre-engagement
With m120