Is the 303 Useless as a Bass Accompaniment? Let's Try It!
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- The Roland TB-303, famous for its use in Acid music, was originally designed to replace the bass guitar. In this video, I use the Behringer TD-3 clone to create a bass line to accompany an acoustic fingerstyle guitar part.
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0:00 - Preview
0:05 - Intro
0:29 - Playing the guitar part
1:09 - Programming the 303
7:44 - Playing guitar with the 303
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If only they had you back then to demonstrate how this thing worked there would have never been acid techno music.
lol
thanks to the Lord, that never happened
Unlikely.
@@DetroitMicroSound : Pretty sure he was making funny
@@DanglyLinghamGood for him.
Orange Juice's 'Rip it up and Start Again' was a charting single in the UK in 1983 and is a good example of a non-techno application of the 303. The fIlter squelch can be heard behind the punchy guitar line. Its a great tune by a cool band
I love that track but with the resonance cranked up it is still not played the way it was intended, also I think there's an actual bass guitar playing underneath.
first release featuring the 303 i think
@@billypilgrim1 fair point, but remember in the late 70s and early 80s many bass players were employing filters and envelopes like the mutron iii or MXR Envelope FIlter (both released in the 70s) to apply squelch to their bass. They were popping up in Rock and funk releases. I suspect the 303 was designed around this real world bass player fad
I love that track but never noticed the 303 on it.
@@ThomasDaley100nope. That wasn’t the first
That sequencer is the dark souls of sequencers.
Fun fact; I've discovered it's actually not IF, big IF here, one actually reads and writes sheet music.
@@OctambulismI notate most of my stuff as sheet music but the real 303 sequencer is still beyond any reason
Thanks. As an original “raver” and producer I always wondered how exactly this was intended to be used.
if you dont use much resonance it's a pretty clean bass tone.
Same, I heard sh*t in documentaries, and not being a musician in those typical terms back then (being a piano accordionist and under ten years old) it didn't reach my purchasing or advertising circles, more like captain planet and re-runs of A-team...
New to your channel. Hello!
It's common knowledge, and always has been.
@@DetroitMicroSound to someone that heard the sounds in music but never knew that common knowledge it's fascinating to our new ears. From me at least: apologies to you if you've been hurt or offended by newbies to the sounds (or some insight to them at least) 🤗
@@RaverOperatorGeeza I'm just saying, it's always been known as a failed bass guitar substitute. In the synth world, it's really just a simple monosynth, with a lot of resonance possible in it's filter, and a rudimentary, tedious sequencer. 😉
This is wild. I always wondered what on earth Roland was thinking selling the 303 as a bass accompaniment instrument. Apparently this is what they were thinking, and it actually works. Really cool video!
Yeah, but it’s a lot of damn work. You were better off just sequencing a bass sound on a keyboard.
If you had a sequencer in the early 80s. This was aimed at people who didn’t have thousands of dollars worth of gear already. Computer sequencing was still pretty novel in 82.
Sorry ‘81
I'm honestly really impressed at how bass-guitar-like the 303 manages to sound when used like this! Nice video 😊
Thank you!!
the classic 303 sound is not only the 303, it's usually overdriven via a console input. if not, it usually can sound quite gentle, close to a sh-101
Lots of overdrives and distortion pedals have been used with it too.
@@enparticularits mostly using filter resonance as distortion in the classic sound. Additional distortion helps alot though
Its so funny how difficult it is to use this thing for its intended purpose, but its such an interesting sound paired with the acoustic guitar. Like an acoustic country/folk type song with electronic drums and bass would be a really cool unique sound thatd id love to hear
It's easier to just learn bass guitar lol
Peter Grudzien is an outsider country act that used to do that!
I agree it’s a great sound that catches my attention a bit more than this genre typically does.
I think adding a drum machine would enhance it further
I read this as "country song with drum and bass" and now I want to make a country dnb song
That was actually pretty impressive!
I remember seeing brand new pairs of TB-303 and TR-606 on sale for $399.00 back in the mid-80s. Again...that was for both. Nobody wanted those strange silver boxes back then!
I had a set and used it for gigs.
As a former 303 owner, I'm shocked it's actually able to do this lol
Nice!
Now make a bass guitar sound like acid techno!
😂
This
I’ve known this instrument my whole life… first time I see it used as intended. It’s amazing
Wanted a video of someone doing this for forever, thanks for making it!
Man, thank-you for this wonderful demonstration. Mixed appropriately, it could be convincing and it fulfills the function of a bass instrument in a track. Good job!
At least this bass player doesn't demand 33% of the gig money, and this one won't run off with your girlfriend!
Nah but my girlfriend will probably run off with it!
@@williambrasky3891 with original tb-303, i guess...
@@williambrasky3891that’s our girlfriend cuz
Any girl that runs off with any bass player I’ve ever worked with isn’t a girl you want to have sticking around.
Just sayin’
wow what a fantastic video! really enjoyed this. coincidentally enough i went looking for my power cable for mine since i lost it when i moved. couldn't find but i still want to learn to program it more! also had no idea that it was meant for a bass accompaniment
Pretty cool. Liked and subscribed!
Lock a 303 with a 606 and add some Hammond organ for traditional usage.
Great video and love the tune.
This is honestly fascinating and yeah, echoing the comments that the bass tone is actually pretty good. Rad experiment!
I would say even the acid sound is super uncommon with acoustic guitar, only example I can think of is the flaming lips using it. Definitely need more 303 rock music 😜
Oh, I want to hear that. What flaming lips tune(s) use a 303?
Soda stereo (awesome rock band from argentina) used a 303 in their mtv unplugged (which is actually a "plugged" using electricity to take things in a more electronic-ambient direction; way ahead of its time tbh) but they use it in pretty much the exact way one usually uses a 303.
this was really cool!!!
This is how I've been using mine for a while. Instead of sequencing the patterns with the copy and paste functions, you can use the song write and play modes, though what you did is may be faster and more conducive to having fun. I've found that for performance accompaniment, it works best to send midi from a DAW so you're not limited to 16 patterns per song, or just 7 songs total.
One always reads how it failed and ended in thrift shops, and then was rediscovered as a whole other thing. Nice to see what it was intended to be.
Thank you!!
Lots of people selling patterns. I think you can link up with one of the established providers and sell actual bass guitar like patterns. Lots of us would have fun. Good job.
Acid folk would be very interesting to experiment with. Acoustic instruments with slightly squelchy bass and 808.
Great vid dude! I personally really enjoy programming the Modjo "Lady" riff on the 303, or the Daft Punk "Da Funk" riff as well. Greetings and take care, best wishes from Mexico lml
very cool, thanks
Wow, that's the most normal bass sound I have ever heard from a 303 off any stripe!
hell yeah, finally someone using all these boxes as they were intended - rock music demo accompaniment
It's also possible to transpose the sequence when you record a track out of your patterns. Pitch mode + new root.. :-) You can also play the same pattern many times one after another in track mode. Another user hostile bit of 303 sequencing to wrap your head around.
25ish years ago, I worked at a music shop. An older dude came in to sell a bunch of stuff from back when he did a solo gig at a local hotel bar.
In the stuff he had a mint pair of 607/303. I gave him $80 each, and when he left I went and hooked them up to the PA. It was all Country and Western stuff. It was pretty awesome. 😊
Awesome video mate! I need to get my TD3 out, old girls been collecting dust. Cheers
Was going to get one of these but I just ordered the Roland t8 yesterday as it's a drum machine and bassline synth so around the same price it comes to day can't wait
Just a solid video. I like to use it for non acid things as well.
It's a pretty decent bass sound but programming it is a bit of a nightmare, so I can see how people would be upset about it being marketed as a "bass (player) replacement" (I guess it's just not very practical in live cenarios)
I have always taken exception to this. It was clearly made to replicate a wide variety of bass sounds including Acid bass like in funk music.
The Behringer clone comes with free software for your DAW that makes programming it so much easier
surprisingly. it sounded pretty good with the arcustic... and kinda like a bass huh. neat. thanks for this video
this is rad
Good video.
Well played! I love this stuff but don't quite have the patience for all the footering about.
This was really interesting to watch. I always heard that’s what they had in mind when it was designed, but had never seen or even heard of anyone actually trying to use it that way. Would you actually use it that way on a record? I’m not sure anyone ever has!
I don't know why, but this video makes me so happy
This video is awesome but I really like your original riff, and as a fellow producer, I think just the guitar by itself is all you need for this one!
actually dope
Thank you!
Eu nunca vi esse equipo sendo usado assim. Muito legal saber dessa possibilidade. Minha dúvida seria, é possível que o TB303 acompanhe uma guitarra midi ? Tipo, criar uma sequência de acompanhamento como num teclado arranjador, uma escala de acompanhamento toda gravada em escala de C e depois mudar com os acordes entrando via midi in ?
You know the midi implementation on the TD-3 allows to fully tap into the special sequencer quirks, like sliding into an accent (accent being determined by a velocity threshold), it could make a task like this a lot more practical using a better external sequencer.
I tried it and it never worked. And then once you get the hang of it it's much more "musical" to program it with the keys
@@ilmondodifaxe8216 what exactly doesn't work? I have tried this myself
@@thepauloapo what publisher are you talking about? the official one or the unofficial one?
it was more convincing than I expected, I was hearing a more bouncy upbeats part in my head
This sounds great, kinda wish I could get my 303 to work with my DAW
This will be interesting
Bill Nelson used the TB-303 extensively as it was intended to be used in the early 80s most notably on Chimera and The Love That Whirls.
can you show us your normal go-to method for getting basslines down, whether it's for practice or for recording... and how your normal method compares to this (obviously over-complicated, not real-world) method?
you may try to play the 303 through a bass amp for an even better tone
That's a good idea!
Nice. I've used my Freebass FB383 as a bassline aswell in a tune :)
Wow, forgotten about that clone, getting on for 25, even 30 years back now?
@@kristianTV1974 I think it's from the 90's.
I bought it second hand in the first half of 2000..
I use the td3 all the time, but I sequence it either with a MPC one or on a pc with ableton. Not having to use the unintuitive sequencer of the synth is much easier to integrate in my workflow since I don't have to recall sequence patterns.
And the slides and accents?
@AguaMineralNatural Slides are done by having notes overlap each other, and accents are controlled by velocity. You can change what velocity level is the threshold of when the accent is triggered in the Berhinger software if it needs tweaking. The octave button is the same as just playing the note an octave up or down on the keyboard. Everything the 303 sequencer can do is able to be done on another sequencer.
I have been trying to sequence the TD-3 from a cirquit tracks but I just don't think the slides sound right.
It is very useful for coming up with new patterns though.
@JH-lo9ut Is it sliding at all? Is the Circuit Tracks able to polyphonicly sequence multiple notes at the same time to make chords? If it only does monophonic single note sequencing, and the end of one note can not overlap another note, it will not trigger a slide.
If you want an easy way to program and save the td3's internal sequencer, the software berhinger makes for it has a graphical user interface that is much easier to use. Just plug the usb into the computer to use it.
@@JH-lo9ut You have to change the note lengths to one 16th longer than normal so they overlap
6:06 what the hell! 😳I never knew that was possible to combine patterns. Brilliant! Can that be done on the Roland 03?
Yeah, the TB-03 also has pattern chaining. It also has a much more improved sequencer that can be modified during playback, which is great for live improvisation.
If I was going to use a TB-303 as a replacement for the Bass guitar, I'd record my full songs bassline into my DAW using an actual bass guitar. I'd then convert the mono Bass guitar audio file to MIDI, then use this MIDI file to trigger the TB-303. This way it's going to sound much more naturalistic, especially if you're playing along to a live, or heavily swung drum track. Even better, do the same technique with the live drum track, then use the MIDI file to trigger a TR-808 or TR-909 as well.
I wonder how many recordings from the 80s were made with the 303 without anyone knowing.
Likely not many since it would need alot of finetuned eqing and fx processing to sound like it does in the video.
At that point getting an actual bassplayer is faster and cheaper due to recording engineers being paid by the hour
I made some really nice disco funk base with one of these ❤
Missed opportunity not to do a tweakin' acid version of the bassline ;) Kidding /not kidding. cool vid all the same. :)
Your guitar part has a bit of a "Country Swing" feel to it, implying 3/4 or 6/8 time. I know you can do it in 4/4 (with the appropriate swing setting), but does the TD-3 have 3/4 or 6/8 as well?
For me the 303 can really work in any sort of setting. The problem I kinda see in the TD-3 clone though (which is the one I own) is that while I use it for lead synthy things it can only really do 1 bar at a time in sync with my DAW. (Fl Studio) I was experimenting here so it could easily just be me being naïve but I had it connected through USB MIDI and I was playing the notes through my DAW, no patterns there. While it would work, the first bar would start quick, the 2nd bar would take a couple ms to do. So I had a weird pause when going from the 1st bar to 2nd. This is why if I ever do try it again I'll probably record each bar and just use those instead of FL's patterns.
People say the 303 doesn't work as a bass, but to me it really can if you know how to sequence it and use settings that sound the best to you.
Ah good to know! I haven't yet tried using it with any MIDI device, but wonder if maybe there is a bug with how Behringer implemented the USB MIDI?
I also like to just record loops and sequence them in the DAW. Easiest way i've found to really use it.
ruclips.net/video/xRRaeCw7P2Y/видео.html maybe this helps?
That sounds like a configuration error in fl studio. I use the td3 with other DAWs and hardware sequencers to control the notes over usb midi, and it has no problems.
..alternatively you could write the note information in your DAW? accents are velocity controlled, slides are overlapping notes
usb midi is horrific, any midi into a computer directly these days is horrific, mixing and matchin ginternal and external is a pain in the arse for timing. you need something like the exepert sleepers usamo
Is there any post processing (i.e. FX, EQ) applied to the 303?
Nice! Get your head round seqeuencing the patterns in track mode next!
Brilliant! Why did no one made this video before? 😀
because most people who buy/use the td-3 have no idea how to play the guitar, lol
It helps alot if you trigger it externally, let the envelope breathe a little.
It would sound great through a nice bass amp and cab with this particular song
Its a very good bass line tool
That is surprisingly bass like
Cool vid
The tune sounds like the acoustic version of Dust on the Ground by Bombay Bicycle Club on the album Flaws
I own a Cyclone 303. They were sued because they made a replica and no longer make the exact match. One thing they improved is colored LEDs and sequencing is far easier with more memory to boot. Oh yah and it has an arpeggio 😋
You can write the patterns very easily in the synthtribe software from Behringer, no need to fuzz around with the hardware UI
i don’t play guitar or listen to it much, but my first reaction to the non-acid 303 sound was “huh that actually sounds kinda like a bass guitar”
How about a demo with an electric guitar please?
Remember those little Casio keyboards from the 80’s ?
This is great. In the mix, it could be a Bass. The programming was probably too obscure at that time. I am still not sure I would easily get-enjoy that programming method.
I think the earliest and most famous use of a TB-303 as a Bass accompaniment is Alexander Robotnick's Problemes d'Amour.
If you didn't mind deviating from the 303 workflow, you could use the software sequencer from the Behringer Synthribe tool to make sequencing a lot easier. While the tone of the 303 in your demo was quite nice, the lack of any human groove is making it useless for non EDM styles, in my eyes.
I use an octaver and a bass simulator on a multi FX unit for my bass sounds along with my looper when I am playing guitar, much easier than programming.
That's nothing, I quit music completely in 2016. WAY easier.
Everybody needs a 303.
The 303 and 808 gear was sold when techno was not yet around, i guess it was used by single "entertainer" guys who where hired for company parties of "40 years in the company" stuff.
the cr-78 drum machine still had presets labeled rumba,disco waltz.
TR-808 (1981), TB-303 (1982) ,TR-909 (1983)
The Korg M1 (1988 ) was the first keyboard where you could have bass and drum tracks in the keyboard, so less gear to carry around.
for this kinda stuff you needed the M1
ruclips.net/video/0Inzl91Qchs/видео.html
before, i guess it was a Rhodes or Wurlitzer plus that gear from Roland.
The 808 has "Rhythm composer" written right there on the panel.
It was made as a studio instrument, so you could come up with drum beats and compose pop and rock music without having a loud ass drum kit and a drummer at hand.
Cr-78 was probably intended more as a performer's tool. Many of those old electric organs had similair sounding drum machines with preset rythms built into them.
Thanks to that, Bossa Nova will never grow out of fashion.
Haha, your results are great but the process to get there is a nightmare! If I was going to do this I'd definitely use one of my Elektron boxes. I feel like it would only take a few minutes to live record this into the sequencer.
I love the 303, but, I can see how it failed in the 1980's as a bass accompaniment. I have the tb-03 and it's actually quite hard to use it for anything other than 'that 303 sound', perhaps it can do a bit of ambient when dialed right down....
Don't forget about the RD-9!
If you want an easier one try the hated tb3 xD
So this is my own take but it's funny....has anyone realized that this is not a bass synth but a finger simulation tool for a hand playing a bass....I have been doing music for some time now and love technology...to a point....and this vid solidify my assumption....it's sequencing tools and edits are actually siming how fingers twerk strings....amd that is a great tool as it's such a silky sound wave when mixed with other sounds....it's like the best frosting ever lol....but just a thought it's mainly this pitch/slide/rest/accent/, filter magic....it's the underlying behavior of the sound and it amounts to fingers interacting with strings and for a small rando sound box to pull that off is fucking was more amazing than the sound itself and it's worth thinking about....hey if anyone knows anyone over at roland or really deep knowledge let me know if my fair guess gas any valid points on functions
Its sorta goofy I got to thinking and I can’t recall a single time I ever seen anyone use this as intended. It turned out way entirely better than I expected.
CRANK DAT RESONANCE BRO!
acoustic acid! lets gooo
I hope some retired Roland engineer finds this video and screams, “Finally” in Japanese.
Have a listen to some music by Imagination - a British band from the 80s They used a 303 quite effectively. Listen to "Body Talk" as an example.
That's interesting, thanks, because I like that band and I am familiar with the track. How do you know about the 303 use specifically please?
That's not a tb303. That's a moog
@@nicknelson9450 the actual track I was thinking of was "music and lights" not body talk as I mentioned in error as a specific example. I can't remember exact dates or tv shows, but I remember at the time I had recently taken the decision to buy the 606 over the 303 because I'd heard about the nightmare programming the 303 and didn't have a drum machine. Then I saw an interview with the band and they mentioned that the 606 was used for the bass. I wish I could remember what TV show it was as I've often thought I'd like to see it again.
@@wietzejohanneskrikke1910 yes, I think you're right about that. The song I actually meant was "Music and Lights". Bit of a brain fart there! See my other reply. Cheers!
@@TheDavidPoole I really don't think that's a 303, if it is it's definitely not playing from the internal sequencer. Envelope sounds way off. It has chorus, but i suppose that could be added after the fact. Comments from the video I watched seem to think it's a sh-1000 which makes a lot more sense.
From what i’ve learned the 303 was a commercial failure at the beginning because it didn’t work as a bass but… i have a feeling a lot of tracks from early 2000’s like Toxic from Britney spears used the 303 as a proper bass??
You should double down on the 303 sound.
The TB-303 was just aimed at the wrong market.
Nice, probably would have been easier with a metronome or TR 808!
Its actually harder to get real sounding bass guitar tones from the 808 kick drum. The kick drum is way too “boomy” even if you turn decay down.
On top of requiring a ridiculous amount of layering in a daw if using original hardware since you only get 1 tunable kick.
All basslines that used tuned 808 kicks were a sample of the kick pitched on a sampler before VSTs and VA Drummachines were common.
my tutorial: this is how the 303 was meant to be used.. *takes hallucinogens*
Now crank up the resonance....
The roland was designed to play 80s electronic music like kraftwerk. By Felicia.
Sequencer is the weirdest one in my studio.
damn, it sounds so close to an amped bass