Final Fantasy VII Remake Chapters 5-9 Discussion - The Deepest Dive
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- The second part of the best, most thorough discussion of Final Fantasy VII Remake on the internet! In this episode, MinnMax's Ben Hanson, Kyle Hilliard, Jeff Marchiafava, Grant, and Ronnie talk about damn near everything in Chapters 5-9 and read hundreds of comments submitted on Patreon. We don't spoil anything after Chapter 9 and don't reveal spoilers from the original 1997 game. In this discussion, we talk about Aerith's writing and personality, Cloud's amazing dance sequence, and worship the Hell House. To unlock the podcast version of this discussion or submit your own comments for us to read, please consider supporting MinnMax on Patreon! / minnmax
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Ben this deepest dive is REALLY killin it. Such a great listen. Keep it up.
1:27:45 What? The Reggae version of Oppressed People is incredible. When this song kicked in I couldn't stop smiling.
This was one of my favourite pieces in the original and I loved what they did with it. Even the battle mix. When it dropped I was like OF COURSE it’s reggae. It felt so right, I was wondering if that was Uematsu’s original intent but maybe I didn’t hear it through the weeds of midi.
56:48 Kyle's potion tip saved HOURS of my life. Thank you, sir!
This has now become my most anticipated thing to listen to every week. Thank you!
Thanks so much, Adam! Tell a friend!
This is such a great podcast/ video series. Feels like I’m playing along with a bunch of friends. Unlike in real life where one friend beat the game in a few days and just keeps complaining about the ending.
Thank you for doing these!
"It didn't stimulate the small bones in your ear?" Kyle expertly sneaking in an MGS reference. Well done.
;)
For someone who's beaten the game, it's so fun to listen to these gents dissect each chapter. Can't wait for the next discussion.
Long time viewer, first time commenter. The reason why Ben did not get the same side quests in Chapter 9 as the rest of the gang is because there are two paths for side quests depending on choices made in that chapter. One path is more reminiscent of the original game, while the other is not. I ended up having the same path as Ben and I'm excited to play through the other path on hard mode.
Yeah it's funny that they didn't understand what had happened. You basically align with either Madam M or Chocobo Sam based on three major choices, which controls not only which sidequests you get, but also which dress Cloud wears.
Found this cause of the Bosman interview and I love this sort of thing I'm so glad keep it up guys!
Oh hey, thanks so much Josh! Glad you're enjoying the discussion!
Same here!
The whole soundtrack is so incredible but one subtle track that really stood out to me plays at the very start of Chapter 9 when you are walking with Aerith. I think it's called midnight rendezvous.
azsugar yep that’s probably my favorite one too. Also that techno track in the underground is really good too
Hollow (both instrumental and standard), ignition flame, the Wall Market techno remix... the soundtrack is incredible. I am continuously getting pumped and drawn in by the perfect music choices.
Yep. The whole collapsed highway section of chapter 9 w/ “ midnight rendezvous” and “due recompense” (wall market remix song) reggae and battle techno remixes went way harder than it needed to lol. My favorite part of the already amazing soundtrack.
I really didn't think the sidequests were that obtrusive. Most of the time they take a few minutes and are over. So yes they're brainless, but also they're over so fast its hard to criticize them, and the rewards are nearly always worth it.
Some of them were so stupid that they were actually entertaining, overall I enjoyed them.
I actually love the sidequests. They mostly seem to be about world building. Even the little girl with her cats will come back into play in the future, and some sidequests have an impact on later events in a big way.
Doing a Wall Market quest right now that keeps getting longer and longer and longer and it turns out after all that he didn't even have the thing and I'm rolling my eyes hard at this comment as I'm stuck in these side quests.
You just called them brainless and you think that's beyond criticism. The side quest are absolute trash. It feels like ps2 game design.
There's also a good reason to do them. It builds Cloud's reputation among the people. A guy willing to help/defend kids and find their cats tell the people he's a reliable, good person. That's the point Tifa makes to Cloud, and what convinces him to try to branch out. We also see Cloud gradually loosen up as he does them (like when he reduces his fee for the kids). Now in the next game, if there's crazy expansive side quests we can take part of we see how this cold guy could start going out of his way constantly, without Tifa or Aerith pushing him to.
They're mundane mostly, but they function more for worldbuilding and character growth for Cloud.
This Deepest Dive has been what I look forward to every week now. There's just something about this game where I can't get enough of everyone's thoughts on it.
Yh
Been playing this game..... so GOOD! Glad I found this play along. Thanks MINNMAXERS
Thanks for playing along and watching this!
Oh I've been so looking forward to this. Nice to see all the faces this time!
Coming back to these all these years later as I’m finally playing this gem to get ready for Rebirth is so wonderful. Thank you to all the great people at Minn Max!
Thank yooou!
@@minnmax If you see this, thank you so much for this series Ben! Longtime MinnMax viewer, but this is my first time playing a Final Fantasy game, and it's been so great the last couple weeks to go through the game and watch these without being spoiled on what's coming up. ❤
A small detail i really like is that in this game whenever you go through a small hole or shimmy across a ledge your party is doing the same thing. It might sound like a no brainer but i just played through FF15 and your party doesn't do a single one of those things. Shimmy across a ledge? Awkwardly get stared at by your boys. Slide down an icy slide? boys watch then magically appear at the bottom.
Yes there are cloud specific things like climbing or the random back alleys in wall market but your party is meant to stay behind.
The music in this game is truly incredible but nothing beats Hip Hop de Chocobo so far
As a heads up, there's two different sets of side quests for chapter 9, one for if you favor Chocobo Sam, and the other if you favor Madam M. Each one gets Cloud a different dress after the dance scene. If you want to go back and do the other set, you'll have to choose it from the chapter select after finishing the game. Sam's side quests is where the other Johnny scenes are. Also, Aerith's personality in this version if the game is much closer to how she was written in the original Japanese version. She was always kinda playful and sarcastic.
Yeah I watched the series Let's Mosey, a slow translation of Final Fantasy VII and her sense of humour is something that got lost in translation a little bit.
Not only did I kill shiva solo as cloud, but I did it without items too. That fight felt like bloodborne to me, took 3 hours or something, but I learned a lot about the game from it and it made me enjoy it a lot more too.
Oh wow...
Shiva alone is doable, elemental materia and ice in the bracer helps a lot.
At first, I also thought the summons not being in fleshed out dungeons or side missions was a missed opportunity, but then 2 things hit me:
1) We're in a city, not the open world, so it wouldn't make sense that we could just go explore random dungeons that are in this city for some random reason. It's one thing to have secret lab/training facilities, but gods just living in the city? That makes no sense given the context.
2) These materia are recreations, which implies that the real deals actually exist. I'm guessing something in the beginning of Part 2 will result in us losing most of our materia (and weapons), including the summons. Once we are in the open world, then making getting the summons actual side missions and dungeons crawling we can discover to face/aid the real elemental gods make more sense. If done, that's some great worldbuilding and foreshadowing wrapped in one.
I absolutely loved all the sidequest. Even going through them multiple times for hardmode was fine. Mostly because the fighting system is glorious and I can't wait to do more. I wish there were custom VR missions where I could just have Tifa destroy hundreds of enemies. I got Platinum yesterday and Im forcing myself to take a break because I could just play through the entire game over and over and over. It's incredible how joyous the experiences you go through. Even on hard mode everything is fairly easy once you pay attention and use the system effectively. Once I figured out the most difficult content in the game after faily 4 or 5 times I got through that fairly easily. I can't wait to do a Nail Bat play though. Even the bike missions were fine, they just dragged on too long and you never have to play them more than once.
I feel this game improves on the original in EVERY way. For me nothing sells that more than Aerith. Her dialogue and the way she interacts with everyone really sells me on why Cloud specifically cares about her so much. And I was completely sold on her when she volunteers herself to get taken as a sex slave in order to save Tifa, who is a complete stranger.
Luis Morales careful with talking about content after chapter 9 here please
I’m currently playing the remake for the first time and then coming back to these vids as soon as I catch up. 😊
Since I did't get a chance to write in, glad my L1 info got relayed by Kyle that I told him on his stream the other day!
Thank you SO MUCH! I’m sorry I didn’t give you a shout out a specific shout-out in the episode.
Yea it literally says it on the screen
Is Ronnie not a youtuber? He seems so natural, he's super funny and charming. Good job Ronnie!
While I've known about this channel for a while, I hadn't actually watched any videos until, in mourning for the departure of Kyle Bosman, I came over to watch your interview. And now I'm a patron! Because this is the gosh darn best thing! I had played part of FF7 previously, but I never finished it. I am greatly enjoying the remake, but I'm enjoying it a *lot* more with this supplementary discussion. Might have to hit Outer Worlds or Chrono Trigger next, both are in my backlog, just for the chance for more conversations like this! Love & Respect y'all!
Listened via the podcast but wanted to pop over here for a comment as well. I look forward to these discussions so much and really think they’re my favorite thing about MinnMax so far! Such great positivity and detailed feedback :). Hoping for the ongoing return of the Animal Crossing deepest dive as well
The scene with the old man that cloud demands 5000 Gil from I had a different take on. The old man had some health problems and had kind of become stagnant and didn’t want to do anything. Cloud went extreme towards him and lit a fire under him to do things for himself. That’s my take on that scene, but I could be wrong.
I was thinking that seeing them kids may cheer him up
He didn't want the old man to give up on his wife.
As someone who hasn't played ff7 since it came out on the ps1 my reaction has been this is exactly as epic as i remember it!
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who struggled with the blasted Hell House!
Finally getting to this! Strong work gentlemen. It's been a whole lot of fun playing this game and listening along.
Oh that's great, thanks for going back toit!
The music in the Highway is Dub. I personally like it
Ok I wanna talk about this ghost theory. It holds water, because there was a line in the first 4 chapters that said you couldn't see the ghosts unless you know they're there. This makes sense because, as someone who didn't play the original, I don't know what would be different from the original. So as a player I wouldn't "see the ghosts" or what the ghosts are supposed to represent
Absolutely I did Shiva with Cloud alone. So so so glad that the items you use in the battle simulator don’t actually get consumed when you leave because I used every Mega and Hi potion I had to get through that fight.
Doing that fight as solo Cloud taught me more about combat than the entire game thus far. Learning that dodge is for avoiding magic, and that you can dodge every one of Shiva's spells except for the tiny rapid fire icicles made a huge difference. The next summon battle, though... oof. I had to come back later because it has so many heavy hitting attacks, like 700+ damage (blocked!) and a team wiping 3k+ unavoidable yeesh. You need barrier and some hp up materias to beat that one.
Jeorin also setting up the materia correctly for the fight.
1:37:29 Re: paying respects, Cloud isn’t dumb. He wants the old man to take the key to moggie because he knows that moggie will cheer the old dude up.
In fact, if you walk by where the old guy is later when cloud sneaks out, the old guy comments on how much better he feels after meeting the kids.
2:38:56 so this was explained in the traces of two past novel where it shows elmyra’s husband’s family are big time contractors in the sector 5 slumms. It was a family business that allowed them to be prominent enough to attain where Aerith lives now. Nice little detail that I was also confused about when I saw Aerith’s amazing house in the slumms 😂
1:43:13 this is a thing I'm now thinking of. It's very interesting and something in my mind while playing.
On a side note this and the little discussion about this game on the weekly podcast is the only ff7 related thing i am paying attention to. I'm not spoiling anything and look forward to how this game will end, and also look forward to this deepest dive every week.
Can't wait to hear your thought on the final chapters! Until then, thanks for this lengthy episode!
Never played the original and i was kinda surprised how late Aerith is introduced in this remake because i know she supposed to be very important. But then you get to spend so much more time alone with her than other party members and my god she is such a joy. I really like her character and she keeps getting better as the game goes on.
You can only get Shiva and Fat Chocobo from Chadley, pretty sure the only Summon you can find in the environment is Chocobo and Mog.
About the sales numbers, the 3.5 million is in the first 3 days. That's really good. So let's hope the sales numbers are great after the first month.
Its like getting a supersized Community Game Club for this game all over again! Heyo!! Love this channel. PS, Hanson is always wrong about the Corneo “it/them” thing. Original PS1 says “smash em”. PC/PS4 port says “smash it”.
these are delivering on the gritty details, i did not think about 90% of this shit
I’ve been really looking forward to this! Let’s goooo!
I really enjoyed this! Thanks for all you do MinnMax!
This Game is amazing. I Put Horizon Zero Down to play this. Lifelong fan of the OG and the whole Final fantasy Franchise....So many thoughts on this and yall doing a GREAT Job breaking this down and treading lightly with the spoils.on Chp.16 or 17 now...Im finishing this tonight 😂
If I remember correctly, the Stamp theme song is in the rec center near the school down the path from Aerith's house. You can access this in chapter 14!
The stamp theme song I believe is down where the bugs are with Tifa and Barrett
Really enjoying the conversations on my play through once again thanks min-max
Regarding Ben's confusion towards sidequests in Chapter 9: he probably got the Madam M Sidequests. There's two sets of Sidequests in chapter 9, and getting one set locks out the other set. Which you get depends on various choices you make throughout Chapter 9.
Great discussion again!
This game is such a phenomenal experience so far, I never really liked western style “prestige AAA” games like uncharted or god of war but Square’s really nailed it with their flare for melodramatic storytelling and strategic combat. This should be the template for FF going forward in my opinion.
Man i forget how hilarious this dive was. I just saw the upload today ablut getting prepped for Rebirth, and i gotta rewatch this dive before that vid lol
I absolutely love The Ronnie Show.
If feels so weird to be so in the minority but I really liked the side quests. I even wish there was even more of them tbh. It gave off this great sense of world building and I enjoyed interacting and contributing in helping everyone out. I'm also a really big fan of Yakuza so that could be a pretty big part in my unusual interest in them.
The music is so amazing it all came together in this game they nailed it
I think people missed some dialog in the old man grave quest. He was saying going there is dangerous and he probably shouldn't do it. What Cloud did by asking for gil and keeping the key is trying to make sure the old man doesn't go back and get offed. That's why Aerith said something like "it feels good to help, right?".
it bothers me a little, that Cloud’s abilities are very random in the scenes. there are times when he jumps that seems to be flying, there are other that he needs a ladder to descend half a meter in height. there are times when he seems to teleport, and other times he can't hit the Reno. 🤷🏻♂️
Side quests change depending on your choices during the Chapter
I thought the Barret Moment humming the victory song was fantastic. I was grinning from ear to ear. Then I heard the victory song again when winning in the VR mission against the summons, and then AGAIN in the Colosseum. So Good.
I have seen online not one person showing how you can use magnify materia with cure . It's like all from the original . Best materia in the game most useful
Haha ben reminded me of the fight with rude. He had grabbed cloud and started swinging and i changed to aerith and she yelled to rude something like clouds pretty tough huh? It really made me laugh!
Playing through this for the first time with the Intergrade version and loving going through this Deepest Dive. I know it's been over a year now, but I have some criticisms that I hope can be taken as actionable feedback
1. Kyle having to leave early in both episodes so far is unfortunate. We miss his perspective on entire chapters. I'm sure whatever his reason was important, but it didn't appear to be an emergency, so I imagine it could be something to schedule around.
2. Audio is not always great and Grant's was especially was bad. For these types of features, it might be nice to have people locally record so that higher quality audio (and video?) could be edited in.
This was filmed mid lockdown so had to be filmed remotely.
I think what Kyle had to leave to do may be childcare related since it a later episode he mentions needing to put his daughter to bed.
@@Harri_James Just to clarify, when I said locally record I meant to record the local media stream using their local device and share it afterward. Not to break lockdown. Many remote shows like this do that so they're not subject to what Discord receives/sends.
As for Kyle, I know he has other important responsibilities. I was just saying that these were not unforeseen and that it was unfortunate they went in knowing he would miss later portions of the feature rather than schedule differently or find someone who had a more accommodating schedule.
omfg, i almost beat the game on hard and I'm just learning you can switch which person you start fights with?!?!?
During a cutscene précis you can hold circle or square to go straight to the pause menu
awesome episode!
Thank you guys for deepest dives I am loving them especially this FF7 series .
RE: level design- I actually found myself thinking about FFXV's dungeons while going through one of FFVIIR's many tunnels. The dungeons were always highlights of the former, and the areas in this game feel like a step back from that. Not really complaining, as I love the combat and characters, but it would have been cool to see the more of that kind of design.
ShiningSpear FFXV had some of the most bland, repetitive, and uninteresting dungeons in the series. They all looked identical because Square just recycled the same tile sets for nearly every dungeon. I’ll take linear, visually interesting dungeons over the hundreds of recycled hallways of XV.
@@PuddingPantsFTW You sure you're not thinking of XIII?
ShiningSpear most optional dungeons in XV used the same generic stone-tomb aesthetic. It really made these places feel artificial when the entire dungeon was just enemies in otherwise barren rooms. It didn’t make any sense in terms of how these places would function if they were real.
Love the show and channel so much! I was waiting for my copy in the mail for weeks so I am only able to participate now. I think the door puzzle is an input lag issue. I finished it in one shot. I also believe in Punisher Mode you don't need to change stance as the attack happens you can just hold down R1 to block and it counters most physical attacks even some of the boss moves. I also found myself saving limit breaks to right after a battle cut-scene. With Tifa I will often use her Kick ability while not controlling her myself because the AI then approaches the enemy and executes the ability, the same goes to Cloud and Braver. To answer Hanson's question about why you get knocked down and sometimes you still get to use a spell or item I believe it is all to do with the timing of the animation. If I don't start the animation for the potion I will get up from a knock down and then the animation will take place so I think its the interruption of the animation. I do agree it is really annoying to lose the ATB bar along with MP and it has made me angry a couple times.
I'm totally with you on the weapon skills Hanson I didn't know you had to use them to learn them til about 15-20 hours in 😬 so don't feel bad
I like the combat in this game . I'm learning a lot on my second playthrough
L1 for mass potions would have been nice to know before finishing the game. Lol. Enjoying the discussion
For sure, there are so many things I have learned about this game that were huge game changers... had no idea about that trick and I'm in chapter 14.
It has been a godsend!
It was explicit in a tutorial splash....
Forgot to include this in my Patreon comments, but if you go to the curtains when Aerith is getting changed, Cloud reaches for them, then Madam M yells at him for trying to peak and he pulls his hand back and smooths his hair with it like that was his plan all along. Very funny.
The Stamp song is down where the bugs are when you're with Tifa and Barrett
Fyi, if you choose the "sporty" dress option for Tifa, she ends up in an outfit that looks like she's cos-playing Street Fighter's Chun Li, complete with hair buns. It's SERIOUSLY great.
Michael McClelland you know that’s a traditional Chinese dress/hair style right? It’s not a Chun Li reference.
@@KRob811 Yeah, I could have figured. I'm sure they totally would have used it too even if Chun Li didn't exist! The fact Tifa happens to be a melee fighter is a complete and utter coincidence, lol.
Michael McClelland they absolutely would have used it even if Chun Li didn’t exist. You act like martial artists were invented by Capcom. I’m sorry your pop culture knowledge ends in the early 90s and don’t realize Chun Li was inspired by wuxia film characters herself.
Kyle’s clap out had me laughing waaaay too hard
You guys really never read tutorials do you. Almost every gripe you have had system wise in this video and the last were plain text explained in tutorials
There are different Wall Market side quests depending on your choices in the game.
Once you level up, upgrade weapons, upgrade materia, and get better armor and items the battle system actually gets better
Mr assholypants small complaint, here : Kyle's audio is way lower than everyone else, it seems. It's in part due to him speaking quite calmly, but a little more compression on him wouldn't hurt :)
Compress that Kyle!
I'm really enjoying this discussion. Because of stupid work I had to put the ps4 in a cupboard after chapter 10 to refrain my constant destruction of sleep :p
I can also make sure to turn up a little on my end next time, too. Thanks!
Answering the questions differently and doing the side quests gives you different dresses
Oof.
Not getting the elemental materia is like going to the swimming pool with a torn speedo. Too bad, man.
I cannot believe people complain about this game . I never played the original and this game blew me away . I just finished it and FF7 , ghost , and last of us 2 are my games of the year . I’m still baffled how someone doesn’t like last of us 2 as well I wonder what other games you must be playing to not like them lol
Hey Ben, can you remind me how you feel about Kingdom Hearts again? Oh, no reason... no reason at all.
I made a mistake in Chapter 3 where I thought Chadley’s “Assess” quest was going to be an ongoing thing, so I just continued with the game. Now I’m toast on completing all the side quests because I “failed” that one due to a misunderstanding and I’m dreading what the reward I’m going to miss for it might be.
NerdStrikesBack I assume you miss out on all of him for the rest of the game? If so that means you are missing 2 summons and a whole bunch of materia.
KRob811 actually no, that’s part of why I didn’t realize it until it was much too late. I was still getting intel and he still shows up as a merchant so I have all the summons and materia he sells. It’s literally like 30 seconds of content I missed but now I won’t get the trophy for completing all side quests along with whatever other reward there is
NerdStrikesBack you can’t get all side quests in one go because you have to replay chapter 9 twice since one half the side quests depend on your decisions through that chapter.
I dunno why but that Claudia bullshit made me fucking break down in tears laughing. It's such a stupid troll that i can't help but laugh
I can answer why they intervened but that would spoil stuff about the original.
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I like the difficulty of this game. I don't watch walkthroughs so it's pretty tough for me. I will look at some hints after I beat a boss sometimes but I like to figure things out for myself.
Very Interesting take on Barret since you don’t know why he is that way.
That's 3.5 million in THREE DAYS
Such a great episode!
I've not watched this yet as haven't got to the end of Chapter 9 but do they discuss the Limit breaks you can earn for Cloud and Aerith and did any of the guys miss them? I missed Aerith's and can apparently not earn it until the Chapter select?! I'm considering going back and redoing from before the colosseum.
I don't mind the squeezing between crates to load the game areas, but the slow down of the walk drives me nuts and this game does it in places other than buildings as well.
I mean, it's by no means a deal-breaker. The game is wonderful. But I don't like that. I don't mind it if it's super-predictable (different walking speed indoor vs. outdoors in Dragon Quest XI), but this is more sporadic. Sometimes it'll pull the camera to show you something too, but since I'm already moving the camera, I mess up the pan. I'd much rather they just completely remove my control for a second to show me what they want to show me.
41:21 lol
I don’t comment every video but just know some of those jokes you guys shake off as not going well I’m over here scream laughing at 😂
Idk if I’m playing wrong but I’ve never had a fight where I didn’t have the correct Materia between my bracelet, weapon, and partner they mentioned multiple times not having the necessary Materia are you not wearing bracelets or getting the multiple Materia slots on weapons?
I love the environments I thought the game was gorgeous. I was always entertained I personally loved 5 thru 9
I'm so glad I got a ps4 recently and this game
Hell yeah me too
Im not sure how you trigger it, but there seems to be different side quests that you are assigned in Wall Market Chapter based on some of the choices you make. I guess it makes replays more interesting although it made this discussion a little confusing.
Solo Fox the coin flip with Sam and which massage you get from Lady M are the main deciding factors.
The person that wrote that comment about his ghost explanation most definitely already played the game before he wrote that.
Honestly, I'm in chapter 14 currently, and I was thinking along the same lines. I have a very crazy theory about the entire perspective of the game that may just be confirmed by the ending, or might not until part 3 of the remake. Let's just say I don't think Cloud can see the future.
I don't think so either but some other people totally can.
Aerith definitely can, but that's in the original, too :p
The timeline thing isn't entirely accurate either, as Cloud never fights Reno in the church, and there are some substantial differences coming up in the future.
No mention of that final choice in ch 9 to wake up Aerith or Tifa first? I’m really wondering how that may affect the story...
This is a year old but I found out recently it's one of things that effects who you get a scene with at Aerith's garden later in the game