Final Fantasy VII Remake Chapter 15-The Ending - The Deepest Dive
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- In this discussion, MinnMax's Ben Hanson, Kyle Hilliard, Jeff Marchiafava, Grant, and Ronnie talk about everything in Square-Enix's remake from Chapter 15 through the ending and read hundreds of comments submitted on Patreon. We don't spoil anything from the original 1997 game, we're saving that for a bonus episode next week. In this discussion, we talk about Cloud's evolution as a character, Sephiroth's role in the remake, and what's wrong with Hojo. To unlock the podcast version of this discussion or submit your own comments for us to read, please consider supporting MinnMax on Patreon! / minnmax
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Hopefully this helps you guys, this is the best and most complete explanation of the theory of the end of the game, virtually the same as the Maximillian Dood one recommended to you, but with a bit more fleshing out.
ruclips.net/video/udt-2Yy9e0o/видео.html
I actually liked cloud voice actor. To me it seems you can see the cracks clearly by the end. I thought he cared about avalanche, Azerith, and Tina by the end.
Man, I can't disagree more with their take on Cloud's voice acting and character in the Remake. I thought the remake captured his personality at this point in the story almost perfectly, and I was initially afraid they were going to shove character development meant for later in the story into this Midgar arc. Luckily they practiced some restraint in this regard, and Cloud is still on track to have some of the best character development moving forward.
ruger singh I thought so too. Also when Cloud says “Not really” to missing Aerith I interpreted that as him saying she didn’t need to put herself in danger. Cloud is just a tsundere and his lines need to be interpreted.
Really happy to find somebody else who felt as I did. I think it's perfect with him still trying to act cool, but his act is starting to break. We can't have it fully break yet though or he would have nowhere else to go for later parts.
I don't really like Cloud's voice, but it's very very appropriate for his character. He is so emotionally stunted and has these weird bursts of emotion, and the voice actor did a great job of capturing these elements.
I agree with you so much, Cloud is still trying to be cool at this point. He's a little more open but not all the way there yet. Guess it's one of the issues of stretching out a short 5-7 hr section to 30-40 hrs, you spend so much more time with the characters that you're expecting them to be further down the road of their development.
Yeah I don't think it was the VA at all. It was some bad lines in the script and more like the direction they gave him. Cloud is not supposed to open up this early.
I didn't even know there were people who don't like clouds voice acting. I thought he was absolutely perfect.
1. disagree with the take on Cloud's voice acting
2. they confirmed that those three harbingers are the three from advent children
Ben, you’ve done it. The most in-depth discussion of Final Fantasy 7 Remake on the Internet. Fantastic work!
The community did it!
Just gotta say MinnMax is awesome and the community is awesome. Such a great discussion all around!
The part wirh rufus and the Turks already working together makes sense once you know the plot for the mobile game before crisis
Eh, I know this is an old comment, but there are far better spoiler convo’s on this game. This is long, but it’s extremely surface level
"Domino's name is a reference to the pizza chain, Domino's Pizza. His deputy, Hart, has the Japanese name of (ハット, Hatto?), which can translate to "Hut", a reference to the pizza chain, Pizza Hut. Both names allude to the city of Midgar sometimes being referred to as a pizza.
"
Lol. This is the biggest reveal i got from this video and all of the comments. I thought i knew it all when it came to this story. Then, i read this comment, and shit my pants.
Woah! That’s awesome :)
I heard about this when I watched Kotaku's "Let's Mosey", which is a really cool video series comparing FF7's English translation to the original Japanese. I can't believe I never even made the Domino and pizza connection, and it's crazy that the reference even went a step further in Japanese. It's fun to learn new things about a game after so many years.
Mayor Domino even say "Domino, at your service" like if you were in the restaurant ^^
Too bad we didn't run into a Pappy John XD
Cloud's "Not really." to Aerith is clearly him making a joke right? I don't see how anyone could think he's being serious.
Bruce Ingram Yeah, I don’t get other readings of that scene, he was clearly teasing her to me
I understood that's what it was going for, but it didn't really land for me. Cloud just smiling even a little would have been so much better for that moment. It was definitely more about the writing than a problem with the voice performance though.
It's one of those things that makes perfect sense, but it doesn't feel correct. Cloud's emotions and personality are a complete mess, he's flat as hell, so it's totally logical for him to try and be coy, but come across as a dick. But for us as players, it's like... jfc Cloud stop being a dick, because we're normal functioning humans (mostly).
It’s just a standard combat line...
I don't think anyone thinks Cloud is being serious. I think we are arguing the Voice Actor sounded serious in what was written as a Joke. Which brings in the argument that Square should have told him "hey man, loosen up there. In the context of the story you're joking for once."
Shoutout to Jeff for embracing this game as a new player and always having a positive take
Disagree vehemently about Cloud. They've spent less than a week together and you expect his personality to drastically change in this short period of time?
Here's the timeline: Cloud joins the party during the first Bombing Mission, this starts during nighttime, but we'll count the entire day as Day 1. Afterwards they go to sleep, and Day 2 is spent mostly walking around with Tifa. In the evening he helps Jesse with her Chapter 4 mission, and then goes to sleep. Day 3 is the Mako Reactor 5 mission which ends in the early morning the following day with Cloud falling into the Church. Day 4 is spent walking around with Aerith and during the night you sneak out and go to Wallmarket, all of Chapters 9-10-11-12-13 are during this same night, as when you're done with Wallmarket and emerge from the sewers into the train graveyard it is still nighttime, it doesn't become daytime until after you've brought Wedge to Aerith's house and slept. Chapter 14 starts Day 5, and you climb the broken plate during the evening of Day 5 and arrive at Shinra HQ at night. When you're fleeing Shinra on the motorcycle it is still nighttime, and the game ends with the dawn of a new day, specifically Day 6.
Thanks for laying out the timeline like this, really helps put things into perspective.
The robot comments were an easter egg for the mayor's password minigame from the OG. The one where you had to go through the books in the archives to find the cypher and then guess the password from his assistant. The robot dialogue was basically the answers from that puzzle.
I have to disagree with the voice acting comments. Everything Cloud said and the way he said it, felt very much in character. He’s broken playing whole and cool and that doesn’t just magically go away because you made new friends, even if you really care about them. They stop giving Cloud the protective actions and roles in cutscenes so the Team feels cohesive. The “Not really” was a joke. Barrett says the same thing to Cloud, when Cloud asks him earlier. You can be upset that Cloud would say that to Aerith, but they’ve already established that Aerith sees right through him, she knows he plays tougher than he is. Had they not introduced Sephiroth, Cloud might have made more progress in part 1. But once you start pulling at stitches, a lot of healing comes undone.
I absolutely loved ch 17. I was so ready for a meaty dungeon section and it gave me exactly what I wanted. Funny to hear so many people describe it as their low point in this section. Really highlights how different of an experience each person playing can have.
I’m with JeffM here, the suspension of disbelief stuff doesn’t bother me. It’s a wacky world with amnesia, talking dogs, magical birds and orbs that give magic, I can accept the difference between gameplay mechanics and story scenes. It’s pretty much a JRPG standard at this point.
I totally agree that the President Shinra scene worked better in the original, but I'll save that for the next discussion. Ben's idea of Shinra pressing a Mr. Burns button to summon robots would've worked better than a gun, but I think what could have been even more effective is if a screen came up with Marlene on it. Showing that he has eyes all over Midgar and if he was willing to drop a plate to crush Avalanche, he can definitely hurt one little girl. That would be Shinra exerting his power over Barret in a way that makes sense for his character.
Love this but weird take on Cloud voice actor. It FEELS like OG Cloud 100%. The ultimania basically says that he missed out on his teenage years so it's like hes emotionally a 16 year old not knowing how to act around people.
And you don't need Ultimania to explain that to you, especially for the guys who've played the original...
Hanson, the move where Rufus shoots the coins is also something Erron Black does in Mortal Kombat. That’s probably what you’re thinking about.
Yes, this is exactly it! Thank you!
Junior also does it in Xenosaga.
You guys did an absolute incredible job with the Deepest Dive on FF7R. Hats off! Grant and Ronnie were great additions. Super entertaining stuff. It was awesome to be a part of it (you read way more comments from me than I could've ever imagined) and the best part is, we're only getting started with the FF7R journey. Can't wait for more. :)
Cloud might be a vessel for Sephiroth. The strongest vessel. Just like the numbered guy he inhabits on Shinra Roof.
The mural in Aerith's former cell contains a number of locations and references to events that happen later in the original game. The easiest to see is in the top left corner.
Ooh, that's interesting.
I love the MinnMax crew, but damn Ronny and Grant have been delightful contributors during the celebration of FFVII. Their banter really makes me laugh.
I get where you’re all coming from on Cloud’s portrayal here but at the same time, given the context of where Cloud’s headspace is at this point of the game (from what we know of the original game), I can see why he isn’t being emotionally in-depth so far in the remake
Bah - he's just mentally scarred and confused, has an alien parasite in him that can make him hallucinate and somewhat control him, and has been subjected to treatments of a chemical with mutagenic properties. Somebody just needs to slap him and tell him "Suck it up buttercup". XD
Took me a 3 years to get back to finish ch15-finish but just beat it finally after inspiration from the rebirth trailer and man... This game is legit amazing. Cant wait for next year.
If anyone is still confused about the mayor's robots they are a Easter egg referencing the passwords you give the mayor in the old game
Almost entirely new to FF (played FF7 like 12 years ago and didn't much like it), but played the remake and loved it. Had to look some spoiler discussions up to see what the deal was and how much it means to the people that were fans for a long time. Like how divisive it seems. Saw the first episode of your deep dive clocking in at two hours or something and went "fuck that." Gave it a shot the day after and I had a tough time waiting for the next episodes (like checking back several times today). You've really smashed this out of the park. Been very interesting to hear everyone's opinions about the story and characters week after week.
The Deepest Dive is such a great idea for a game discussion show and I'll definitely be sticking around to try more of you guys' content out.
Aw, thanks so much!
Thank you so much for this series guys, absolutely loved it!
Thank you for watching it, Faded! Any help sharing it with a friend is appreciated!
You very much need to watch maximilian dood's spoiler casts with EZA and Dropped Frames. A lot of his theories have since been confirmed by the Ultimania book.
Right on, yeah I'll definitely check it out before the next discussion!
I second this. Great stuff. The fact that every spoiler cast of this game is 3 hours or more is amazing and I think I have watched everyone of them
@@minnmax I absolutely can't wait for you guys to be on the same page we've all been on for awhile. As huge FF7 fans, i think you may bring some new facts to light after catching up to where the rest of us are. I think the sequel is gonna be bananas.
I just started watching their vid and holy crap... It should be a must watch for anyone playing this game. They make sense of so many weird events in the game. I never considered the idea that Sephiroth was deliberately try to mislead Cloud from the start. Makes way more sense why he shows up so often, and makes him way more threatening. Hell, it even explains why he left the president dangling... he freaking wanted Barret to kill him... He probably stabbed Barret out of spite for not meeting his expectations, even though he knew the whispers would heal Barret. JFC what a mindf***.
Edit: The coin flip thing with Rufus is a thing Erron Black does in Mortal Kombat 11.
On Cloud’s VO, I definitely think it was intentional. SPOILERS, but you have to remember that at this point in the story Cloud is like 1 month removed from being a vegetable and cobbling together his entire current persona. My mans is not okay, and throughout the whole game that was the feeling I got and I think that’s how you’re supposed to feel.
100%, he’s supposed to still be stiff, man has a long way to go still
Was just looking fo see if someone commented on Erron Black!
God I love Ronnie. You can tell why him and Ben are Best Friends. they have such a similar sense of humor and play off each other so well. I want him in more MinnMax stuff
Jeremy Tanner Ronnie was so funny in this entire Deepest Dive, I was laughing out loud multiple times because of him
Aww thanks guys. Really brightened my day over here!
I think I swung the nail bat 20 times - a few times just testing it out, and then enough to get the ATB up to use the special and max the proficiency. After that I put it away and never went back.
As noted in the video, folks on Reddit have seemingly figured out the "7 seconds until the end" quote. In the original, it's exactly 7 seconds from the time Sephiroth appears to the time a certain infamous event takes place. So him saying this in 7R implies he's lived through this timeline already and is aware of this, or is somehow able to see the future. But him having his wing in 7R (he doesn't yet in the original) also implies he's come back in time.
Jenova, not sephiroth
Nice discussion guys. Up there with easy allies w/max dood podcast.
Few things I caught during your discussion that may explain some things...
Regarding deaths
Jessie and Biggs - ingame chapter selection says “Jesse passes” and “Biggs is wounded”. So Jesse is dead according to the game.
Wedge - his last scene was odd. I didn’t think he died at first play through because you hear the window break, then Wedge speak. But after playing the OG again (up to Junon now) this last words he has in the Remake are the exact same last words he has is the original before he dies. So I believe he can be presumed dead.
“The warning shots” during the bike mini game I took as you have Aerith. Although they want to kill most of your team they don’t want to risk killing Aerith.
Great podcast guys!
This is my second or third time listening to this Deepest Dive from start to finish and I feel like I've gotten something new out of it each time. I couldn't ask for a better discussion surrounding this breathtaking game! MinnMax, thank you so much for your hard work!! 👏 I've recommended your channel to several of my friends already and I'm confident they're going to love what you do! 💕🗯️
Someone saying of Heidegger: 'Nobody like this would rise to power'... God how I wish this statement were accurate.
I'm new to Deepest Dive but I gotta say you guys killed it. I never thought I'd spend 20 hours watching discussions on a 45 hour game. This series was exactly what I craved after that ending.
Also, I don't know if this happens often but Hanson, did you feel yourself looking absolutely batshit crazy when trying to explain every character's motives to the other guys? It was hillarious seeing how insane you looked and still being able to follow every weird-ass sentence.
This is the best jrpg since the ps2 generation. This is the quality we've all wanted from jrpgs for a long time.
Absolutely loved every episode of the deepest dive, you guys did a fantastic job and I can’t wait to listen to next week’s episode!
This is the first Deepest Dive I could join in and had a great time! Thank you MinnMax for a fun few weeks
I became a patron and a viewer because of this Deepest Dive. Had never played the original, but your passion for it convinced me to jump in after remake and I'm already out of Midgar and truckin' across the ocean in some cargo ship. I look forward to both trying to play future games with y'all and, hopefully, going back and finally playing some you've already covered. Also, Grant and Ronnie were great! Would love to see them in more future content!
Fantastic series. Loved playing along w u guys. Thank u!!
This was a fantastic deep dive on a fantastic game guys. Love it every episode. Great job!
Ronnie is awesome on these videos. He’s funny and fits in perfectly. I love seeing him and Ben go at each other haha
I've listened to the all episodes while getting the platinum trophy. You guys are the best!
PSA...All of the "Focused" abilities cause more pressure to cause enemies to stagger quicker.
From the perspective that consumes a lot of Japanese media, but definitely isn't claiming to be an expert on the language at all - I think Cloud's "Not really" response, writing wise, can be seen as not super frigid. It's pretty common in anime for a bubbly character to approach someone playing it cool and they say "not really". You can hear it in the Japanese phrase "betsu-ni". There are other ways to say 'not really' but those are more polite/negative, while "Betsu-ni" (and the tone I usually hear it with, too) is more casual.
The best analogy I can think of is maybe if he said "nah" with a slightly lighthearted tone it would've captured the difference I'm getting at. I haven't heard this scene in Japanese, but I bet that's the phrase he used there.
Thanks for the shout out! I was being honest. If you remember I tweeted you asking what the gameclub chunks were going to be so I could write down my thoughts as I completed each section and not contaminate them with future knowledge. I beat the game five days after it came out, and when I did I actually went back and removed a part of that comment with my theory. I originally referenced an old interview with Nomura in which he named the Whispers is Fate and said they were new to the remake. Keepin it spoiler free!
Oh interesting, do you have a link?
@@minnmax "Tetsuya Nomura also confirmed that the ghost-like things appearing when Cloud meets Aerith as she’s selling flowers are named “Guardians of Fate”, and are among the new story elements added to the game. These kinds of brand new elements will allow them to surprise even those who played the original."
www.dualshockers.com/tetsuya-nomura-details-final-fantasy-7-remake/
@@minnmax Also on the pizza thing, it was absolutely a Domino's reference. In fact, if you would watch Tim Rogers translation series he explains that Domino's assistant Hart is named Hut in Japanese, a reference to Pizza Hut. But the original translator didn't catch that reference and changed the name.
I'm sure you're probably not still reading these, but god, this has been a series. Please have Grant and Ronnie again for more content.
Oh we're still reading these. Thanks for the feedback.
@@minnmax I LOVE YOU THANK YOU XX
Kyle: I gotta put my kid to sleep.
Ben: We might go for another hour!
Kyle: Yeah, I gotta go.
*10 minutes later*
Ben: OK, thanks for watching!
This was amazing! Thanks for doing it. Also, I'm glad you are still hosting a podcast Ben, you are great at it. I saw you a while ago at The Game Informer Show for the first time and you were one of the reasons I kept watching it. Keep it up! The others in this "deepest dive" were great too.
When Rufus shows up in Remake, he shows up with gunmen and tries to arrest your group, so it makes perfect sense to fight him to keep your people safe from harm. Also, he works for Shinra, so obviously he's evil :p
I hope that Grant and Ronnie get to do more shows on MinnMaxShow. There really fun to listen to! Thank you guys for doing this!!
i really like cloud voice actor and everyone else, except heideger, but love the deepest dive!
I loved Heidegers voice - they really managed to get the "Gyahahaha" out of him and make it actually sound somewhat menacing instead of completely cringy. About the only ones I was disappointed with was daddy and junior Shinra and thats ONLY because I wanted to hear the smooth, buttery, southern drawl that TFS gave them. XD
I love heideggar. One of the best performances in the game outside the main cast.
I am not surprised that the ending wasn’t emotional. I felt they did not explain enough for newcomers and they took away from the emotional scenes by implying characters were alive. I feel like they zapped meaning from the ending for the sake of making it look cool. I don’t understand why they made the choice to imply people were alive. I agree I did not feel as emotional with the plate fall as in the original because they presented it differently anytime they wanted. Complete total destruction, but can still find the bar sign. So many people died, but everyone we ever saw before is still alive. Biggs was right underneath the falling plate but is possibly alive?? Biggs better be alive in the other timeline because if survived the fall so should have everyone else. It is so confusing
I don't know, I found it emotional, I think it all comes down to your perspective and your expectations going in, it seems that the ending runs the gambit for people. From some thinking it's amazing to others hating it. It also is heavily laden with hints about future and past events that means it requires multiple viewings to fully understand so that is probably part of it.
I thought it was emotional, the final CG with the Hollow song made me remember Crisis Core
Jared Gilmore I couldn’t find it emotional because I couldn’t understand the consequences. Even Shinra was talking about how disappointed they were they couldn’t kill more people so it didn’t feel as jarring as in the original. I also could not understand why the fate thingys let Wedge escape death only to maybe kill him later. I guess the only emotion I could feel was confusion. Also I found it hard to feel sad when the cat came to Cloud and others basically saying “help wedge is trapped in a well” also what was with the rock music when the plate fell it felt more like an action scene than a tragic one.
So here's something small and kind of fun. The ropes that indicate where you can grapple are a golden color. In the original, Barret refers to the rope that leads up the rubble as a 'golden shiny wire of hope'. The grapple ropes are a nod to this line, which probably me and like 3 other people who played this noticed.
@3:56:00 My theory is that the edge of creation is the same place Cloud meets Sephiroth for the final time in the OG FF7. Where Cloud defeats the influence Seph has on his mind.
I think when Seph says not now, he is telling Cloud that he is not ready to remove his influence from his head like he did at the end of the OG.
I believe this will pay off later when Seph takes control over Cloud and will make him do stuff he will regret later on.
Can Ronnie and Grant become members of MinnMax... ? Please?
Roche! Roche! Roche!
Roche! Roche! Roche!
We'll meet him again at GS. He'll be playing the motorcycle game going "Vrooooom! Vrooom!". XD
Great work guys, loved the ride !
Regarding Cloud's "not really" comment, I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be him attempting to joke. Aerith giggles right after he says it, so even if the delivery didn't make it come off that way, her response casts it in that light.
i know this is super late but there is a menu to switch materia between all characters
@3:00:00 I loved how they've known Aerith for like a couple of days or maybe weeks, and all of a sudden she is like, let's go trhough this portal to another dimention and defy fate. We may change as people and everything may change going forward, are you game guys?
And no one asks what the hell she means and how does she know. For all they know they may become someone else entirely, or the future they may end up with is one where everyone dies a day later of a heart attack.
How the hell do they decide on a split second on something so crazy like changing fate when they do not have a clear picture of what that means at all.
Worst of all, it was Sephiroth that baited them there, how much more clear can it be that this is what he wants? It really just blows my mind how this was what they came up with.
@3:10:00 That Red scene is from AC but it is a recreation of the final scene from the OG FF7.
@3:36:00 That is exactly how I feel they showed us they could deliver an awesome proper remake but they are telling a different story instead. Not a remake anymorez thats the vibe I get from that ending.
This seems like post advent children Sephiroth, the wing gives it away, coming back to change his fate and if you think of Remake as Sephiroth remaking his fate from the original game, things make more sense. Sephiroth appearing much earlier in the game compared to original, Aerith saying Sephiroth is wrong/feels wrong after she's spent most of the game hinting that she knows what's happening or is supposed to happen. The 3 kids from advent children fighting for the Harbinger, I mean Sephiroth.
@@mabonman watched advent children last month after replaying ff7. Sephiroth's wing is hard to miss.
After I put on my spinfoil hat and poured a dram of whiskey, the ideas started flowing.
Sephiroth is dead, and has nothing to do with the OG. Sephiroth is Jenova in disguise. Jenova is trying to change her fate, not sephiroth. Sephiroth’s body is the northern crater stuck in the lifestream, dead.
Completely unrelated to anything being discussed, but who is Grant? Dude seemed very cool and chill, just something I was wondering while I was watching.
Hi! He's an old friend of Ben's and also the chef on our MinnSnax show.
@@minnmax Gotcha! Thank you for the response. I'll check that out sometime.
3:51:45 what I take from that phrase, given all the information we now have, is that through all of the compilation Sephiroth's presence is there even when he's not physically. And when aerith says "we can change this, make it right" is finishing Sephiroth for good, stop all the chaos he brought since he began his search for chaos, an in order to do that they must defy fate and the planet, even though that means indirectly going along with Sephiroth's plan aswell.
Have you played the original? Because Sephiroth is already dead
Thanks for this. I finished the game a few days ago and it's been great listening along with you folks.
Unfortunately the only spoiler I got was from the second episode reading Taylor's "guess" of the ghosts...But besides that, fantastic discussion of the game! Look forwarded to each episode every week! Thank you all!
If I may ask, what microphone are you using, Hanson?
Did you guys know that you can hit R1 in the materia screen and see and quick swap all character’s materia on the same screen? I still wish you could make loadouts, but it definitely helps a ton.
Can't wait to hear some level 7, big-brain theories ;)
I’m sure that the CGI for the game is made by Visual Works. They make cutscenes for a lot of Square Enix games and some concepts. I’m still wondering if the character prototype from a couple years ago is an unannounced game.
I think it’s funny how everyone seemed to be having trouble with materia when I ran through half the game with 0 elemental damaging materia equipped. I was always too busy leveling up everything else. I did have healing materia on everyone though. That’s one of the things that’s great about this game. It gives you so many options. You have an enemy that is strong to physical, use Areith or clouds blade burst.
Y'all forget President Shinra had The GOLDEN GUN. That's A ONE SHOT KILL!!!. y'all kno this of course barret was careful with a a fricken "GOLDEN D.E. IN HIS FACE lmaoo
Apparently he didn't get the memo that it was 'Slappers Only' day. XD
All I knew was that the ending was different and people were freaking out.
I personally loved clouds voice actor. Some of the dialogue was odd like you were saying but that’s not on the voice actor. 🙂
Regarding the ending, Kitase has said that the original ending of FF7 is a world without humans. Sephiroth didn't become a god but humans eventually get wiped out. Thus it's not really the future the team would want. So Sephiroth wants to change destiny so he has a chance to win and become a god and Cloud & co would want to change destiny because humans eventually die. And destiny wants things to progress as it had. Thus destiny is an enemy of Sephiroth and Cloud in addition to each other.
It makes no sense, though. The ending to the original shows 500 years later, Red XIII approaches Midgar and you hear the laughter of children, indicating humanity survived. Is Kitase ignoring this, or are those children not humans? If so, what's the point lol. Sometimes I wonder if these guys remember the games they made >.>
@@Jeorin I've debated this a lot. Back in the day FF7 was made Sakaguchi would not make a sequel to any of these titles. So it makes sense the original idea or script had the ending be the planet chose to wipeout humanity. But I get why they added the laughter to leave it open ended and not to end in such a dark note.
But the planet's only way to wipeout humanity was holy, so if that really happened was just there at the ending of OG ff7.
As we know, after Sakaguchi left SE they started doing sequels and prequels so this whole humanity being wipedout by holy was retconed if it was ever a thing.
Dirge of Cerberus and Advent Children were proof that humanity lived on. So now they would have to explain in the next games how exactly was humanity wipediut, maybe making AC and DoC not canon anymore.
Who knows, they can do whatever they want going forward, but the wiping out of humanity was arguably never part of the canon, going from a open ended ending to then outright showing humanity wasn't wiped out in the sequels.
Part of me wanted Sephiroth to be more in the background, but I can’t deny the hype that was fighting him with that A M A Z I N G remix of One Winged Angel and the game would have ended on a whimper instead of a bang if he wasn’t there. I was blown away by the spectacle of the final boss fights, from Jenova Dreamweaver, to Rufus, to elevator robot, to highway robot on a motorcycle, to Arbiters of Fate, to Sephiroth... What a dream final boss gauntlet!
Don't forget that crazy elevator mech. It was one hell of a gauntlet, though the final two fights were a tad on the easy side.
I don’t know what Shinra tower that commenter was talking about, but in the OG 2/3rds of the floors were puzzles and a workout room. Only the top three floors are where shit got crazy.
I don’t think we are getting a chance to make our own teams because of the complexity of doing several VA combinations and cinematic cut scenes.
Thank you for an amazing job. One thing I read about and saw, was the reference to Final Fantasy X-2. In the Shinra building museum, there’s a picture of the founders and one of the founders is a character from Final Fantasy X-2 who is very tech savvy and comments that you can harvest the soles of the dead for energy. His name also was something close to Shinra. Final Fantasy X and the VII allegedly share the same map.
Since no one responded to you here is mine 6 months later.
The boy’s name in x-2 was in fact shinra and he alluded too throughout the game about the vast amounts of energy that are beneath their feet that could be harvested to have unlimited energy.
We haven’t had an official confirmation (I am yet to read the ultimania) as far as I am aware that this is no more than an Easter egg for all of the OG fans that the worlds are linked.
However there is a running theory that FF7 is set in the future after the events of FFx-2.
As I said I don’t know if there was ever an official confirmation tho
Ah, so good. Thanks for the fun time, gents. I'll see ya next week.
In the time it took to get to this point (also my game came in late, the day after the first deepest dive episode) I've beaten the game twice, currently on chapter 15 on hard mode, and clocked over 115 hours. I think I might really like this game guys
I think the dialogue was “good” but whoever directs the VO’s need to stop the Grunting that happens a lot in Japanese to English entertainment. The VO’s though did an amazing job at conveying their emotions and sounding exactly how you’d think the characters would.
Only reason i also started getting vibes that those ghosts were related to deviations from the fate of the original game is they share a striking resemblance to the time wraiths from the Flash lol they also serve the exact same function there lol
So the materia Scarlet was making was red like the summon materia so I took that to mean they were trying to make more of that materia and that the Chadster worked with her in some capacity which is why he could give you summon materia.
I was super annoyed with the ending. You can't put the cat back in the bag and having sephiroth be the final boss feels like it takes away from him being a threat in future titles. This "fighting destiny" stuff always falls on deaf ears for me. It just feels generic vs having an actual villain with motives and character.
Not to spoil anything but isn't Sephiroth even larger of a threat now? I mean he basically won, he manipulated the characters into destroying destiny for him, now he could actually win, where before he was destined to fail.
Sephiroth has at least 3 forms in the original game, so we haven’t seen him in his final form, I’m sure next encounters will be wven more over the top
I'm not fully convinced that we've seen the real sephiroth. In the original we see Jenova so it would make sense to me that its Jenova sephiroth. Though this could be the advent children sephiroth as some have talked about, which is more of a genetic memory than the real sephiroth so that would explain why he is weaker.
@@malpercio123 I'm almost willing to bet there is a bigger threat then Sephiroth. There's a reason I think the last game of the series will be called Rebirth.
This is one of the things I'm really looking forward to how they pull this off. I think it'll still work well if they have these fights in each have that build up to one final fight. Sort of this dance around each other until things come to an end
1:52:25 I'm totally in agreement with Kyle here and I'm sorry, even with the ability to hold the Square button down in order to make some changes in materia were not only annoying and time consuming, but at the end of the game, I really feel like the story led you to believe that the final encounter was going to be solely a one-on-one fight with Cloud vs Sephiroth. I ended up fighting that whole final battle with one hand tied behind my back....characters equipped without materia, crescent moon charms, etc. This is my BIGGEST complaint in the entire game, of which I really enjoyed overall, but this was extremely frustrating.
the advent children boys theory has been confirmed via the ultimania book
@2:15:00 What? People are ok with killing Barret this early? Screw his character arc and all the great stuff that happens later on with him.
Wow that is why I say there are some people that will like anything they get from a story, no matter how stupid or how much gets lost from it.
2:18:00 Damn that Sephiroth killing Wedge sounds really good, It hadn't occured to me but that would have totally worked.
I will defend this game because I really enjoyed it - but yeah, THAT would have even pissed me off. The fake out didn't bother me though because I was pretty sure what was going to happen.
I noticed the FF8 music too lol
During the final fight, sephirtoh is wielding the fates even though cloud and company just beat them. Makes me think we haven’t seen the rest of them in the future games.
BillNyeGuy My theory revolves around the ideas seem in the original game
SPOILERS
Sephiroth is a ‘virus’, he corrupts the planet. The whispers are the planet’s attempt to keep the flow of time intact and, as part of the planet, they can also be corrupted by Sephiroth’s presence, who twists their goals and controls them when they are close to him. I don’t think they’re always acting according to Sephiroth’s wishes throughout the game, but sometimes he corrupts and uses them to enact his will.
@@marloncarrero6575 You mean Jenova
@@puffman06exactly
@@marloncarrero6575sephiroth is dwad in the original game. Jenova is just using his form. Sephiroth’s body is in the Northern Crater, dead.
@@stonehorn4641 Sephiroth and Jenova are merged, he IS an evolved Jenova since his conception.
I haven’t even watched it yet, but >4 hours!! You guys exceeded my expectations 😍
It's too early for Cloud to have a complete 180 in his character growth. He softens around Tifa and Aerith during one-on-one, and even Barrett. But it would be unrealistic (and also break future pivotal character moments) for him to be his REAL self now. This is honestly the best Cloud has ever been. His KH and AC versions were trash.
The Turks are actually part of Heidegger's department. If I remember correctly, in the original, Scarlet makes some snide comment about them and apologizes to Heidegger for it. I would expect Rufus, as VP, to have some control over them, though, especially being the boss' son.
In before crisis, I believe Rufus was in charge of the Turks, but he is sent away by his father, and he puts Heidegger in charge of them.
But clearly they’re still have loyalty to Rufus
Real missed opportunity for Hanson to edit every swear with Cloud saying "the mayor"
All jokes aside, I've loved the FFVII Remake Deepest Dive. While I went at a MUCH slower pace going through the game, I've enjoyed listening back to these conversations and how the impressions and theories developed over the course of this game. Looking forward to the deepest dive for Final Fantasy VII Remake Part 2 (Rebirth? Reunion?) in 2030
The robots are a call back to the mini puzzle in the orginal around that time in the game. You have to line up specific phases for items. Its a nod to it.
Great discussion! Love hearing the varying viewpoints.
Also, not 3D, but EarthBound had working escalators
just wanted to pitch in with the whole lack of cloud character growth (the comment with him saying "nope" to aerith at final battle)
I played the entire game with japanese audio, at the part when Aerith came she said "sabishi katta" (Were you lonely?), and Cloud replied "betsuni" (not really).
While its similar, i think this is a bit of failure from the localization team and it definitely gives a different impression from the original writting (the japanese).
Okay - that makes more sense. Anytime somebody asks Cloud if he is lonely he's gonna say "Nope"
All this talk of being upset that there are things we don't understand, like who exactly Sephiroth is in part 1 of a story is baffling. Why does everyone feel the need to know everything at a times, immediately? We are not supposed to know the significance of the ending. We are not supposed to know who or what Sephiroth is. We are not supposed to know what Jenova is nor its importance. Why is it so hard just to bask in the intrigue? As a first time player of FFVII with this remake, I absolutely loved this game. I think just the thread that Sephiroth seems to be informed on the events of the original game is a worthwhile thread in itself. I don't need to know everything and I'm so excited to learn more in the next installment. Love the content regardless and look forward to more Deepest Dives.
OH yea and the gun scene with the president. This nitpicking is getting out of hand guys. He was holding a gun at semi-close range, how is that not threatening? Sure, Barret has a gatling arm, but the gun is already pointed at him. It's a poignant moment meant to show the President's menace. I think it worked just fine personally.
P. S. Clouds VA was awesome, you guys are off your rocker.
Yup. I know this is an old comment, but some of their opinions are ridiculous. We’re talking about a game with talking lab rat dogs, a cat riding a stuffed animal, a 13 year old ninja, demonic houses, and huge gods you can summon to fight for you.
I think the elevator scene for barrett is pretty interesting, Jeff pointed out that his group is still a terrorist group but there is an interesting point to be made that all the "damage they have done," has all been instigated by shinra include jessie's own bomb being a dud in mako reactor 1 (Shinra had to blow up their own reactor to create an even more impactful scapegoat for the entire city). I'm interested to see where they take this moral conflict, looking for more ethical ways to look for energy use in this world. Definitely more faithfully adapted in the modern zeitgeist.
The VR Ancient scene switching to the scary stuff was not seen by Tifa and Barret. Cloud only saw it.
That's not true, Barret talks about it.
@@minnmax I thought Barret and Tifa were talking about the presentation in general, including the meteor that hit the ancients. During the Sephiroth scene Cloud grabs his head, which indicates to me that it's another one of his hallucinations. But I guess it's not very clear. All I can say is that it would make no sense whatsoever if all three saw the Sephiroth scene.
I actually was wondering about this too. Barret definitely mentions the meteor, but it absolutely has discussion about the meteor before the scene swap. I think they didn't actually see the future stuff, because Tifa would've definitely freaked out about Sephiroth, given their history.
I re-watched the scene and I'm really not sure how much was real or not, or what the characters all experienced. In the presentation, Tifa and Barret get attacked by Sephiroth, which is obviously only experienced by Cloud, but after, Tifa specifically states 'what was that huge meteor'. There is a scene with a meteor during the Ancients portion, but it's brief and not likely to leave an impression. My best guess is that Tifa and Barret saw the destruction of Midgar via the meteor, but only Cloud saw Sephiroth.
Barret and Tifa saw the meteor which was a normal part of the presentation. However, the Sephiroth part and the destruction of Midgar was not seen by Tifa nor Barret